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View Full Version : Bucs resign kicker Barth with big $$$, should facilitate Prater signing


Ronnie Tsunami
05-17-2012, 12:11 PM
The bar has been set this afternoon. This guy just got a 4 year, 13.2 million dollar deal.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7942356/tampa-bay-buccaneers-sign-franchise-player-connor-barth-4-year-deal

http://i.imgur.com/6mNoB.jpg

Let's stack him up against Matt Prater, who is currently "technically not under contract."

http://i.imgur.com/0zrnN.jpg

If anything, this lets the front office how much they truly need to pay prater if they are going to keep him. Prater is every bit as good as Barth, with a much stronger leg. Should facilitate our resigning of prater, or release, if that is the direction we want to go.

To extrapolate, the biggest kicker contract in history was Janikowski's 4 year, 16 million dollar doozie.

Thanks, Bucs.

Drunken.Broncoholic
05-17-2012, 12:18 PM
Good thing the home games are in thin air. Prater is great but it's also easier in colorado to kick a field goal than in Florida. Not too long ago Prater couldn't hit a barn in the 40-49 range. Praters value was huge with tebow. Not quite as valuable with manning

UberBroncoMan
05-17-2012, 12:18 PM
Gah

That's a lot of money.

Beantown Bronco
05-17-2012, 12:24 PM
Prater is great but it's also easier in colorado to kick a field goal than in Florida.

Couldn't disagree more. Altitude may affect distance, but it doesn't help accuracy. And it's a lot tougher to kick in Denver weather than Tampa weather (plus Tampa plays many more away games in domes, due to their division/conference). In short, it's "easier" to kick in Tampa than Denver IMO....especially now that the kickoff has been moved to the 35 for everyone.

Drunken.Broncoholic
05-17-2012, 12:28 PM
Couldn't disagree more. Altitude may affect distance, but it doesn't help accuracy. And it's a lot tougher to kick in Denver weather than Tampa weather (plus Tampa plays many more away games in domes, due to their division/conference). In short, it's "easier" to kick in Tampa than Denver IMO....especially now that the kickoff has been moved to the 35 for everyone.

That's true. I was thinking more along the lines of distance. I still need to see more 40-49yard field goals consistently from him though. I get nervous when he's in that range. Over 50 under 40 no problem.

orange crusher
05-17-2012, 12:39 PM
Should facilitate our resigning of prater, or release, if that is the direction we want to go.

I don't see releasing him as an option. They used the franchise tag on him so Prater isn't holding all the cards. He can sit out if a long term deal isn't reached, but he would be in the same situation again next year.

Beantown Bronco
05-17-2012, 12:51 PM
I've also seen a few people say this now, and I'd like to address it:

Praters value was huge with tebow. Not quite as valuable with manning

I wouldn't be so sure. Last year, we were ranked #28 in the league in field goal attempts. Only 4 teams attempted fewer field goals. That's embarrassing for a team that plays half its games in Denver, where you should be attempting MORE kicks if anything.

We did, of course, lean on him in quite a few high pressure situations late in the 4th quarter and OT due to all the close games which we may not duplicate this year with Manning. But it would be a mistake to underestimate how valuable he becomes with a QB like Manning who should get us into field goal range more than the 1.5 times per game under Orton/Tebow. I wouldn't be surprised if Prater comes close to doubling his attempts this year. He will most certainly be a valuable part of our scoring units once again this year.

Smiling Assassin27
05-17-2012, 12:56 PM
prater has earned his money. you can't really help what the market for kickers has turned into, so the alternative is to pay less and sign a much more unreliable kicker. From what i've read, those alternatives are guys like Longwell, Rayner, Buehler, etc.--not exactly guys that inspire confidence.

prater's a good fit here. the only question is do we write him up on something like a 5 year deal or stick to a 3 year. broncos can just keep franchising the guy and he'll get top 5 kicker money as long as they do.

ludo21
05-17-2012, 01:00 PM
I would not give a long term deal to a kicker

Smiling Assassin27
05-17-2012, 01:04 PM
I would not give a long term deal to a kicker

do you let a proven kicker go should someone like KC offer more years but same annual salary?

TonyR
05-17-2012, 01:07 PM
Just to stir the pot a little...


Prater made some huge kicks last year, and he was a bigger part of Denver's winning streak than a kicker would typically be. But he's still a kicker, and one who's made just 80.4% of his attempts with the Broncos, including an atrocious 12 of 23 from 40-49 yards (52.2%).

If you're wondering, Ryan Longwell is available and has made 83.2% of his career kicks, including 72.4% from 40-49 yards.

Steven Hauschka, who stepped in for an injured Prater in 2010 and became Seattle's kicker last season after Denver cut him in the preseason, was good 83.3% of the time in 2011, including 7 of 8 (87.5%) from 40-49. He's also a free agent - perhaps Denver should consider bringing him back.

Besides, PMFM doesn't appreciate drunk/idiot kickers.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/prime-cuts/slice/prater-still-unsigned-skipping-offseason-workouts

Heyneck
05-17-2012, 01:10 PM
Good thing the home games are in thin air. Prater is great but it's also easier in colorado to kick a field goal than in Florida. Not too long ago Prater couldn't hit a barn in the 40-49 range. Praters value was huge with tebow. Not quite as valuable with manning

What? So Elam wasn't valuable when he was with Elway... or Plummer? You are on a retarded roll today!

broncosteven
05-17-2012, 01:14 PM
I would not give a long term deal to a kicker

Elam had a long term deal it took us awhile to replace him.

I think once you find a dependable kicker you should lock him up.

Where I balk is giving him 14 mil for only 4 years.

I could a 5 year deal for 8-10 mil or less if they could swing it.

I agree with Beantown, I think Prater will get more chances as we will get into scoring position more than 1 time per game like we did with Tebow.

Plus with Manning as the QB we can try the longer kicks rather than be forced to punt and play field position like we had to last year.

SonOfLe-loLang
05-17-2012, 01:29 PM
Elam had a long term deal it took us awhile to replace him.

I think once you find a dependable kicker you should lock him up.

Where I balk is giving him 14 mil for only 4 years.

I could a 5 year deal for 8-10 mil or less if they could swing it.

I agree with Beantown, I think Prater will get more chances as we will get into scoring position more than 1 time per game like we did with Tebow.

Plus with Manning as the QB we can try the longer kicks rather than be forced to punt and play field position like we had to last year.

Agreed. Just sign him. He was pretty money last year. Hell, for the chicago game alone he earned it

Heyneck
05-17-2012, 01:30 PM
Agreed. Just sign him. He was pretty money last year. Hell, for the chicago game alone he earned it

Second that!!!

Requiem
05-17-2012, 01:32 PM
Just to stir the pot a little...


Prater made some huge kicks last year, and he was a bigger part of Denver's winning streak than a kicker would typically be. But he's still a kicker, and one who's made just 80.4% of his attempts with the Broncos, including an atrocious 12 of 23 from 40-49 yards (52.2%).

If you're wondering, Ryan Longwell is available and has made 83.2% of his career kicks, including 72.4% from 40-49 yards.

Steven Hauschka, who stepped in for an injured Prater in 2010 and became Seattle's kicker last season after Denver cut him in the preseason, was good 83.3% of the time in 2011, including 7 of 8 (87.5%) from 40-49. He's also a free agent - perhaps Denver should consider bringing him back.

Besides, PMFM doesn't appreciate drunk/idiot kickers.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/prime-cuts/slice/prater-still-unsigned-skipping-offseason-workouts

All they do is stir the pot. They think the sarcasm and attempt at wit in their writing style makes for a good read, it does not.

TonyR
05-17-2012, 01:34 PM
All they do is stir the pot.

Somewhat agree. But they do make some fair points about his %, particularly his numbers from 40-49 which are not good.

Beantown Bronco
05-17-2012, 01:41 PM
Somewhat agree. But they do make some fair points about his %, particularly his numbers from 40-49 which are not good.

Too small a sample size.

Over the course of two whole seasons from 2009-2010, he was 12 for 15 on field goals between 40-49 yds. One bad stretch can swing the percentages when you're talking about 1 attempt in that range every 2-3 weeks.

1 more made kick in two seasons? 87%
1 more missed kick in two seasons? 73%

BroncoMan4ever
05-17-2012, 01:42 PM
Good thing the home games are in thin air. Prater is great but it's also easier in colorado to kick a field goal than in Florida. Not too long ago Prater couldn't hit a barn in the 40-49 range. Praters value was huge with tebow. Not quite as valuable with manning

i don't know about that. a good field goal kicker is a good thing to have no matter who is QB. with his leg it also basically can guarantee Denver's offense is good for 3 just about any time it sets foot on the field

ludo21
05-17-2012, 01:46 PM
i do like Prater though so I would hate to see him go especially after last years monster season.

eddie mac
05-17-2012, 01:55 PM
I think you should wait and see how he does this year where as many have said he'll be getting more FG attempts. If he has a good year then you extend him, if not let him walk and get another kicker or just use the tag again in 2013 if it's not needed elsewhere (Clady)

Tombstone RJ
05-17-2012, 03:35 PM
Give Prater a 3 year deal worth about $9m total with aprox. $4.5m or half fully guaranteed. That's basically $1.5m a year fully guaranteed.

done deal, move on with the rooks.

TonyR
05-17-2012, 03:42 PM
Too small a sample size...


Fair argument. But I still wouldn't go too crazy $ with him.

Lestat
05-17-2012, 04:13 PM
once you get an elite kicker you ride that mother like a hooker in a back alley until he isn't work ****.

pay the man his money. not interested in trying to draft or break in a new young K.

lolcopter
05-17-2012, 04:16 PM
2 mill a year and a season pass to shotguns

oubronco
05-17-2012, 04:29 PM
Lock this muthafugga up NOW!!!

crush17
05-17-2012, 04:46 PM
All they do is stir the pot. They think the sarcasm and attempt at wit in their writing style makes for a good read, it does not.

Oh he mad

Bmore Manning
05-17-2012, 04:51 PM
Vinateri signed a five year 12 million dollar deal with Indy in 2006.
He signed a three year 10.4 million dollar deal in 2011...

I would not exceed the last contract AV got and look to the first contract for Prater. Vinateri may be the most clutch kicker in the NFL..

Give Prater 5 years 12million.

DBroncos4life
05-17-2012, 05:06 PM
Good thing the home games are in thin air. Prater is great but it's also easier in colorado to kick a field goal than in Florida. Not too long ago Prater couldn't hit a barn in the 40-49 range. Praters value was huge with tebow. Not quite as valuable with manning

This is false. In 2009 Prater was 7th in scoring. In 2010 and 2011 he finished 34th and 35th. I will let you connect the dots.

UberBroncoMan
05-17-2012, 05:44 PM
This is false. In 2009 Prater was 7th in scoring. In 2010 and 2011 he finished 34th and 35th. I will let you connect the dots.

You missed the point he made.

Prater's impact was immense last season due to the close games that were won on his foot due to our slow moving, clock draining offense.

KipCorrington25
05-17-2012, 05:50 PM
They will work it out Xanders isn't around to screw it up.

rugbythug
05-17-2012, 06:05 PM
All they do is stir the pot. They think the sarcasm and attempt at wit in their writing style makes for a good read, it does not.

The Irony over there is suffocating. Woody Paige meet Wordpress Woody Paige.

TonyR
05-18-2012, 05:57 AM
Another good write up on the Prater situation this morning. Bring on the ad hominems.

The conclusion, which I tend to agree with:


I'm all for locking Prater up on a multiyear deal. But should Denver be paying him a contract commensurate to what Tampa Bay just paid Barth?

If it comes down to allocating ~$3M annually to Prater versus signing someone like Steven Hauschka for under $1M, I'd say go with the latter, and spend those resources elsewhere.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/the-daily-lard-5-18-12

Shotgun Willie
05-18-2012, 06:17 AM
2 mill a year and a season pass to shotguns

I'll run it by him when he wakes up. He's still passed out in his designated booth across from me.

RunSilentRunDeep
05-18-2012, 08:50 AM
Elam had a long term deal it took us awhile to replace him.

And by "awhile" you obviously mean "immediately with Prater."

I like Prater but don't get why no one bothers to look at the other side of the field. Opposing kickers were more accurate both in Mile High (by a little) and at home (by a lot). People want to pay Prater for style points for kicking it through the end zone in Denver. But his touchback rate wasn't much higher than opponents.

He's an average kicker, he's has two years of acceptable accuracy (13th in '09; tied for 10th in '10) and two years where he's been among the worst in the league. Is that dependable?

Never pay the kicker.

vancejohnson82
05-18-2012, 08:55 AM
kicker is actually a position that i believe we could pick somebody up off of the wire and they could do a job comparable to Prater's last year

i would offer him up something like 3 years 9 mil...if he doesnt like that then he's obviously looking for an enormous contract

LRtagger
05-18-2012, 09:05 AM
Good thing the home games are in thin air. Prater is great but it's also easier in colorado to kick a field goal than in Florida. Not too long ago Prater couldn't hit a barn in the 40-49 range. Praters value was huge with tebow. Not quite as valuable with manning

LOL yea ask Manning how valuable a good kicker is.

Where is the "He missed it" gif

Beantown Bronco
05-18-2012, 09:22 AM
And by "awhile" you obviously mean "immediately with Prater."

I like Prater but don't get why no one bothers to look at the other side of the field. Opposing kickers were more accurate both in Mile High (by a little) and at home (by a lot). People want to pay Prater for style points for kicking it through the end zone in Denver. But his touchback rate wasn't much higher than opponents.

He's an average kicker, he's has two years of acceptable accuracy (13th in '09; tied for 10th in '10) and two years where he's been among the worst in the league. Is that dependable?

Never pay the kicker.

Prater is statistically better in both field goal percentage and kickoff distance than Jason Elam was after his 4th season.

What about Prater's accuracy in the 4th quarter, OT and in potential game winners? Zero career misses in game winners. Only one career miss in the 4th quarter, if I'm not mistaken. Find another veteran kicker in the league with those numbers.

Requiem
05-18-2012, 12:25 PM
Oh he mad

No, just telling it like it is. See that they had to justify their behavior today. I laughed.

orange crusher
05-18-2012, 02:32 PM
Vinateri signed a five year 12 million dollar deal with Indy in 2006.
He signed a three year 10.4 million dollar deal in 2011...

I would not exceed the last contract AV got and look to the first contract for Prater. Vinateri may be the most clutch kicker in the NFL..

Give Prater 5 years 12million.

Vinatieri was in the right place at the right time. Most decent kickers would make those kicks. He just happened to make them when everyone was watching. Not saying he's not a good kicker just overhyped because of a couple high profile kicks.

Cito Pelon
05-18-2012, 03:09 PM
Just to stir the pot a little...


Prater made some huge kicks last year, and he was a bigger part of Denver's winning streak than a kicker would typically be. But he's still a kicker, and one who's made just 80.4% of his attempts with the Broncos, including an atrocious 12 of 23 from 40-49 yards (52.2%).

If you're wondering, Ryan Longwell is available and has made 83.2% of his career kicks, including 72.4% from 40-49 yards.

Steven Hauschka, who stepped in for an injured Prater in 2010 and became Seattle's kicker last season after Denver cut him in the preseason, was good 83.3% of the time in 2011, including 7 of 8 (87.5%) from 40-49. He's also a free agent - perhaps Denver should consider bringing him back.

Besides, PMFM doesn't appreciate drunk/idiot kickers.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/prime-cuts/slice/prater-still-unsigned-skipping-offseason-workouts

Haushka was impressive.

DENVERDUI55
05-18-2012, 03:31 PM
Vinatieri was in the right place at the right time. Most decent kickers would make those kicks. He just happened to make them when everyone was watching. Not saying he's not a good kicker just overhyped because of a couple high profile kicks.

Not in the Tuck rule game. Plenty of guys have missed those SB kicks. He stepped up when asked too when others have failed.

orange crusher
05-18-2012, 05:42 PM
Not in the Tuck rule game. Plenty of guys have missed those SB kicks. He stepped up when asked too when others have failed.

...and plenty have succeeded too. Scott Norwood will always be remembered as the guy that choked on a game winning FG in the Super Bowl the same as Vinatieri will be remembered for making the kicks in the tuck rule game and the Super Bowl. The field goals in the tuck rule game are remembered mostly because of the controversy over the tuck rule play itself. He kicked a 45 yarder to tie it and a 23 yarder in OT to win it - kicks most kickers make. It was in the snow, but was it really that much more difficult or impressive than Prater in the Chicago game last year kicking a 59 yarder to tie it and a 51 yarder to win it? Not really, just a bigger stage. People will remember the tuck rule game long after they've forgotten about the Den-Chi game though.

People remember Vinatieri kicking a field goal in the final seconds of the SB against Carolina, but do they remember earlier in the game when he didn't look so clutch missing a 30 yard chip shot and then having another chip shot blocked. He missed another chip shot in the SB against the Bears, but people don't remember it so much because it didn't end up being a difference maker. He's been fortunate that he had a lot of opportunities on the big stage and that his misses haven't decided the outcome.

Beantown Bronco
05-19-2012, 06:56 AM
It's funny how everyone always remembers Vinatieri, but nobody remembers Tynes who has made at least as many clutch kicks in the playoffs and SB. Very underrated clutch kicker.

bowtown
05-19-2012, 07:05 AM
Getting Colquitt signed long term is more important IMHO.

CEH
05-19-2012, 09:15 AM
I've also seen a few people say this now, and I'd like to address it:



I wouldn't be so sure. Last year, we were ranked #28 in the league in field goal attempts. Only 4 teams attempted fewer field goals. That's embarrassing for a team that plays half its games in Denver, where you should be attempting MORE kicks if anything.

We did, of course, lean on him in quite a few high pressure situations late in the 4th quarter and OT due to all the close games which we may not duplicate this year with Manning. But it would be a mistake to underestimate how valuable he becomes with a QB like Manning who should get us into field goal range more than the 1.5 times per game under Orton/Tebow. I wouldn't be surprised if Prater comes close to doubling his attempts this year. He will most certainly be a valuable part of our scoring units once again this year.

I'm curious where we ranked in terms of 3 and outs. I'm guessing top 3
since I witness first hand all the drives last year at Mile High and it was not pretty most of the game except for the last 15 minutes

Pretty hard to kick FG from 80 yards away. I'm in agreement I think with Manning we will get to FG range (+43 yard line) 30+ times more than last year but I'm hoping for TDs

Tombstone RJ
05-19-2012, 09:31 AM
Vinatieri was in the right place at the right time. Most decent kickers would make those kicks. He just happened to make them when everyone was watching. Not saying he's not a good kicker just overhyped because of a couple high profile kicks.

like scott norwood? Dude, Vinatieri's ability to make multiple kicks during the most pressure filled moments is exactly what separates him from "most decent kickers" who "would make those kicks."

that's the difference.

Tombstone RJ
05-19-2012, 09:34 AM
...and plenty have succeeded too. Scott Norwood will always be remembered as the guy that choked on a game winning FG in the Super Bowl the same as Vinatieri will be remembered for making the kicks in the tuck rule game and the Super Bowl. The field goals in the tuck rule game are remembered mostly because of the controversy over the tuck rule play itself. He kicked a 45 yarder to tie it and a 23 yarder in OT to win it - kicks most kickers make. It was in the snow, but was it really that much more difficult or impressive than Prater in the Chicago game last year kicking a 59 yarder to tie it and a 51 yarder to win it? Not really, just a bigger stage. People will remember the tuck rule game long after they've forgotten about the Den-Chi game though.

People remember Vinatieri kicking a field goal in the final seconds of the SB against Carolina, but do they remember earlier in the game when he didn't look so clutch missing a 30 yard chip shot and then having another chip shot blocked. He missed another chip shot in the SB against the Bears, but people don't remember it so much because it didn't end up being a difference maker. He's been fortunate that he had a lot of opportunities on the big stage and that his misses haven't decided the outcome.

Vinatieri also made the game winning kick against the Rams in the 2000 SB.

DENVERDUI55
05-19-2012, 10:09 AM
...The field goals in the tuck rule game are remembered mostly because of the controversy over the tuck rule play itself. He kicked a 45 yarder to tie it and a 23 yarder in OT to win it - kicks most kickers make.

Hilarious! Did you watch that game? I remember thinking and all the announcers were like what is Bill B doing marching out the K in from 45 in these conditions. Most K make my arse that was a tough kick in awful conditions.