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alkemical
05-17-2012, 07:42 AM
DEFINITIONS AND DISTINCTIONS

FREE MARKET: That condition of society in which all economic transactions result from voluntary choice without coercion.

THE STATE: That institution which interferes with the Free Market through the direct exercise of coercion or the granting of privileges (backed by coercion).

TAX: That form of coercion or interference with the Free Market in which the State collects tribute (the tax), allowing it to hire armed forces to practice coercion in defense of privilege, and also to engage in such wars, adventures, experiments, "reforms," etc., as it pleases, not at its own cost, but at the cost of "its" subjects.

PRIVILEGE: From the Latin privi, private, and lege, law. An advantage granted by the State and protected by its powers of coercion. A law for private benefit.

USURY: That form of privilege or interference with the Free Market in which one State-supported group monopolizes the coinage and thereby takes tribute (interest), direct or indirect, on all or most economic transactions.

LANDLORDISM: That form of privilege or interference with the Free Market in which one State-supported group "owns" the land and thereby takes tribute (rent) from those who live, work, or produce on the land.

TARIFF: That form of privilege or interference with the Free Market in which commodities produced outside the State are not allowed to compete equally with those produced inside the State.

CAPITALISM: That organization of society, incorporating elements of tax, usury, landlordism, and tariff, which thus denies the Free Market while pretending to exemplify it.

CONSERVATISM: That school of capitalist philosophy which claims allegiance to the Free Market while actually supporting usury, landlordism, tariff, and sometimes taxation.

LIBERALISM: That school of capitalist philosophy which attempts to correct the injustices of capitalism by adding new laws to the existing laws. Each time conservatives pass a law creating privilege, liberals pass another law modifying privilege, leading conservatives to pass a more subtle law recreating privilege, etc., until "everything not forbidden is compulsory" and "everything not compulsory is forbidden."

SOCIALISM: The attempted abolition of all privilege by restoring power entirely to the coercive agent behind privilege, the State, thereby converting capitalist oligarchy into Statist monopoly. Whitewashing a wall by painting it black.

ANARCHISM: That organization of society in which the Free Market operates freely, without taxes, usury, landlordism, tariffs, or other forms of coercion or privilege.

RIGHT ANARCHISTS predict that in the Free Market people would voluntarily choose to compete more often than to cooperate.

LEFT ANARCHISTS predict that in the Free Market people would voluntarily choose to cooperate more often than to compete.

alkemical
05-17-2012, 09:45 AM
Is this a good set of definitions? Are they apt for where we are today?

alkemical
05-24-2012, 09:55 AM
How would you define these terms differently if you didn't/don't agree with them?

Pony Boy
05-24-2012, 10:17 AM
You forgot one ......

BroncsRule
05-24-2012, 10:56 AM
It's a good list if you're an anarchist.

Blart
05-24-2012, 11:01 AM
DEFINITIONS AND DISTINCTIONS

FREE MARKET: That condition of society in which all economic transactions result from voluntary choice without coercion.

THE STATE: That institution which interferes with the Free Market through the direct exercise of coercion or the granting of privileges (backed by coercion).


I'm only going to cover these two. Two problems jump to mind,

1) I don't need force to commit fraud or theft.

2) All property is derived from coercion. (i.e. land is not originally purchased)

I prefer the Merriam-Webster definition above the libertarian list,
"Free Market: An economic market operating by free competition."
"The State: a politically organized body of people usually occupying a definite territory; especially : one that is sovereign"






----

edit: actually, after reading the whole list, it's not libertarian, it's anarcho-capitalist, which overlap quite often. The author should move to Somalia.

alkemical
05-24-2012, 12:54 PM
I'm only going to cover these two. Two problems jump to mind,

1) I don't need force to commit fraud or theft.

2) All property is derived from coercion. (i.e. land is not originally purchased)

I prefer the Merriam-Webster definition above the libertarian list,
"Free Market: An economic market operating by free competition."
"The State: a politically organized body of people usually occupying a definite territory; especially : one that is sovereign"



----

edit: actually, after reading the whole list, it's not libertarian, it's anarcho-capitalist, which overlap quite often. The author should move to Somalia.



The author actually started the "guns & dope party" in CA. ;)

Even though you prefer a different definition, as the "way things operate" - are these terms defined wrong?

Blart
05-24-2012, 01:19 PM
They're heavily opinionated definitions, and I find some to be wrong.

alkemical
05-29-2012, 08:10 AM
I'm only going to cover these two. Two problems jump to mind,

1) I don't need force to commit fraud or theft.

2) All property is derived from coercion. (i.e. land is not originally purchased)

I prefer the Merriam-Webster definition above the libertarian list,
"Free Market: An economic market operating by free competition."
"The State: a politically organized body of people usually occupying a definite territory; especially : one that is sovereign"






----

edit: actually, after reading the whole list, it's not libertarian, it's anarcho-capitalist, which overlap quite often. The author should move to Somalia.


The State uses force, fraud & cohercian all the time. (taxes, laws, etc). The dictionary definitions seem to illustrate a "utopian" idea of what the idea should represent, but it doesn't define how it operates in a real world model.

gyldenlove
05-29-2012, 12:22 PM
To keep definitions in the language of the original list:

Tariff: Interference with the free market by the state to bring about a desired behaviour through taxation

The offered definition in the OP fails to consider tariffs on intra-state goods such as alcohol or lottery.

Capitalism: State organized free market balancing protection of the free market itself with protection of those who partake in the free market through coercion and limitation of freedom.

Conservatism: Can not be defined strictly in its relationship to the free market, thus any defition attempted to conform to the OP list will be incorrect.

Liberalism: See above.

Socialism: Removal of the market through state coercion.

Anarchism: Removal of the market through invididual coercion.

alkemical
05-29-2012, 12:25 PM
To keep definitions in the language of the original list:

Tariff: Interference with the free market by the state to bring about a desired behaviour through taxation

The offered definition in the OP fails to consider tariffs on intra-state goods such as alcohol or lottery.

Capitalism: State organized free market balancing protection of the free market itself with protection of those who partake in the free market through coercion and limitation of freedom.

Conservatism: Can not be defined strictly in its relationship to the free market, thus any defition attempted to conform to the OP list will be incorrect.

Liberalism: See above.

Socialism: Removal of the market through state coercion.

Anarchism: Removal of the market through invididual coercion.


Is "The State" a reference to just a federal, or as a "ruling body"?

gyldenlove
05-29-2012, 12:29 PM
Is "The State" a reference to just a federal, or as a "ruling body"?

Any ruling body that can influence the market by creating privilege and protect that privilege through coercion - to use the nomenclature in the original list.

alkemical
05-29-2012, 01:09 PM
Any ruling body that can influence the market by creating privilege and protect that privilege through coercion - to use the nomenclature in the original list.

you gave me some thinking material...hmmm.

Blart
05-29-2012, 01:11 PM
The US has the most massive and effective propaganda system the world has ever seen. It includes the huge public relations industry (which in more honest days, described itself as dedicated to "propaganda"), the corporate media, and in fact a lot more. The US is the only industrial country where one cannot (on pain of exclusion from polite society) describe oneself as a socialist (and Communist parties function freely elsewhere). After "socialist" was demonized, attention turned next to "liberal" -- now almost a term of abuse. So the people who in other societies would be called social democrats, socialist, etc. ("liberal" is a special US term) now call themselves "progressives," which seems to have less dangerous connotations, though people who are dedicated slaves of private power are working hard to demonize that term too. - Noam Chomsky

The State uses force, fraud & cohercian all the time. (taxes, laws, etc). The dictionary definitions seem to illustrate a "utopian" idea of what the idea should represent, but it doesn't define how it operates in a real world model.

You can't do good until you have some might to back it up in the real world. To act like the "free market" is somehow above coercion and force is an old libertarian lie.

alkemical
05-29-2012, 01:14 PM
The US has the most massive and effective propaganda system the world has ever seen. It includes the huge public relations industry (which in more honest days, described itself as dedicated to "propaganda"), the corporate media, and in fact a lot more. The US is the only industrial country where one cannot (on pain of exclusion from polite society) describe oneself as a socialist (and Communist parties function freely elsewhere). After "socialist" was demonized, attention turned next to "liberal" -- now almost a term of abuse. So the people who in other societies would be called social democrats, socialist, etc. ("liberal" is a special US term) now call themselves "progressives," which seems to have less dangerous connotations, though people who are dedicated slaves of private power are working hard to demonize that term too. - Noam Chomsky



To do (good or evil) one must use force. To act like the "free market" is somehow above coercion and force is an old libertarian lie.

This post agrees with the definition(s), IMO. (in that the "free" market doesn't exist and is only "marketing".)