PDA

View Full Version : The Denver Broncos Biggest Post-Draft Need: Linebacker


Bronco Rob
05-10-2012, 07:09 AM
Since the pre-free agency installment of this series, the Broncos signed Peyton Manning, drastically resetting their short-term expectations. In Tracy Porter to play cornerback opposite Champ Bailey, as well as Mike Adams, a competent starting safety. Porter and Adams should be upgrades on the unsigned Andre' Goodman and the now-retired Brian Dawkins, respectively.

Our 24th-ranked pass defense’s biggest problem, though, was against running backs – they allowed a 26.4% DVOA on passes to running backs, which placed them 30th in the NFL. It wasn’t just against the pass where the linebackers seemed to struggle though, as the Broncos were twenty-fifth in the league in our Second Level Yards statistic, which measures how many opponent runs gain five to ten yards. The Broncos chose to re-sign Joe Mays, who started at middle linebacker, and Wesley Woodyard, who played more on passing downs. But since D.J. Williams is aging and Von Miller is a pass rush specialist, the Broncos’ linebacking corps is likely to be about as good as it was in 2011. That may not be good enough.



Important Undrafted Free Agents

Cornerback Coryell Judie out of Texas A&M was an intriguing prospect who had a strong 2010 before a hamstring injury cost him much of 2011. If he can regain his 2010 form, he could make the team. Safety Duke Ihenacho from San Jose State excels in coverage, and could vie to replace Adams in a couple years. The Broncos also signed Arizona State wideout Gerell Robinson, giving second-round quarterback Brock Osweiler a collegiate teammate to throw to in rookie minicamp.




http://www.footballoutsiders.com/four-downs/2012/four-downs-afc-west-0

maher_tyler
05-10-2012, 07:40 AM
Since the pre-free agency installment of this series, the Broncos signed Peyton Manning, drastically resetting their short-term expectations. In Tracy Porter to play cornerback opposite Champ Bailey, as well as Mike Adams, a competent starting safety. Porter and Adams should be upgrades on the unsigned Andre' Goodman and the now-retired Brian Dawkins, respectively.

Our 24th-ranked pass defense’s biggest problem, though, was against running backs – they allowed a 26.4% DVOA on passes to running backs, which placed them 30th in the NFL. It wasn’t just against the pass where the linebackers seemed to struggle though, as the Broncos were twenty-fifth in the league in our Second Level Yards statistic, which measures how many opponent runs gain five to ten yards. The Broncos chose to re-sign Joe Mays, who started at middle linebacker, and Wesley Woodyard, who played more on passing downs. But since D.J. Williams is aging and Von Miller is a pass rush specialist, the Broncos’ linebacking corps is likely to be about as good as it was in 2011. That may not be good enough.



Important Undrafted Free Agents

Cornerback Coryell Judie out of Texas A&M was an intriguing prospect who had a strong 2010 before a hamstring injury cost him much of 2011. If he can regain his 2010 form, he could make the team. Safety Duke Ihenacho from San Jose State excels in coverage, and could vie to replace Adams in a couple years. The Broncos also signed Arizona State wideout Gerell Robinson, giving second-round quarterback Brock Osweiler a collegiate teammate to throw to in rookie minicamp.




http://www.footballoutsiders.com/four-downs/2012/four-downs-afc-west-0

Mays was a huge reason for this. He sucks in coverage. If he starts again, it will be just as bad or worse than last year.

Bmore Manning
05-10-2012, 07:44 AM
Mays while a liability in coverage, he does not see the field in obvious pass downs. I see Woodyard and Trevathan being the Nickel LBs.. So I think this area was addressed. And while Trevathan may not be the big name Lavonte David was, make no mistake Trevathan is no slouch in coverage. He and Woodyard will be solid Nickel LBs.

enjolras
05-10-2012, 07:50 AM
Mays while a liability in coverage, he does not see the field in obvious pass downs. I see Woodyard and Trevathan being the Nickel LBs.. So I think this area was addressed. And while Trevathan may not be the big name Lavonte David was, make no mistake Trevathan is no slouch in coverage. He and Woodyard will be solid Nickel LBs.

Everything I read suggests that Trevathan is rather slow. Doesn't seem like the type that's going to cover a running back out of the back field or keep up with a Gronkowski.

Bmore Manning
05-10-2012, 08:01 AM
Everything I read suggests that Trevathan is rather slow. Doesn't seem like the type that's going to cover a running back out of the back field or keep up with a Gronkowski.

If you are judging him based on his combine performance you should know he was nursing a Hammy injury, and ran a sub 4.4-4.5 at his pro day. Trevathan plays fast, I suggest you watch some of his game tape. I liked him heading into the draft and even mocked him as our sixth round pick. One of the Pro football sites and Walterfootball wrote an article on him a month ago, calling him a young Lance Briggs, per the mouth of scouts. As you know those sites report what others say.

ColoradoDarin
05-10-2012, 08:05 AM
Well, if we're going to play a shoot-out every week, I'd rather have a better nickle CB (Harris is good for this) than spend more on a LB who won't be on the field - and just have our base D be a nickle package.

Broncomutt
05-10-2012, 08:10 AM
Can't remember the last time one of our linebackers made an interception.

Rohirrim
05-10-2012, 08:17 AM
Uhh, cough, Hightower.

Okay. That's the last time I'll bring that up...


probably. ;D

ColoradoDarin
05-10-2012, 08:19 AM
Uhh, cough, Hightower.

Okay. That's the last time I'll bring that up...


probably. ;D

Dont'aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaa

(doesn't quite work like Ed Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed, but pretty close)

Requiem
05-10-2012, 08:28 AM
Can't remember the last time one of our linebackers made an interception.

I still remember the Titans game where DJ Williams got one a zillion years ago. I **** my pants.

hambone13
05-10-2012, 08:38 AM
Uhh, cough, Hightower.

Okay. That's the last time I'll bring that up...


probably. ;D

I don't see how Hightower would have helped us with the OP's original point. "Pass Defense".

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/profiles/donta-hightower?id=2533057

Bigdawg26
05-10-2012, 08:41 AM
I think people are forgetting about Nate Irving, who was only on the bench because he didn't know the defense. I think he will take Joe Mays spot after a year of learning the playbook. Von isn't bad in coverage. He just is such a good pass rusher we don't need to use him at coverage all the time when woody and DJ are out there and is better at it then him.

bronco militia
05-10-2012, 08:42 AM
I think people are forgetting about Nate Irving, who was only on the bench because he didn't know the defense. I think he will take Joe Mays spot after a year of learning the playbook. Von isn't bad in coverage. He just is such a good pass rusher we don't need to use him at coverage all the time when woody and DJ are out there and is better at it then him.

how could anyone forget Nate Irving?!?!?!?!?!?!?

ZZZ...

hambone13
05-10-2012, 08:48 AM
I think people are forgetting about Nate Irving, who was only on the bench because he didn't know the defense. I think he will take Joe Mays spot after a year of learning the playbook. Von isn't bad in coverage. He just is such a good pass rusher we don't need to use him at coverage all the time when woody and DJ are out there and is better at it then him.

I don't think anyone is forgetting about Nate. What is being pointed to, is that we suck in pass coverage because we lack the talent to cover with our current LB corps. Everyone is suspect until we upgrade or they prove themselves. The original point of the thread is that perhaps we could pick someone up that is already proven.

Drunken.Broncoholic
05-10-2012, 08:49 AM
Can't remember the last time one of our linebackers made an interception.

Mario haggan did it against the Vikings in 2011. Even returned it for a TD.


And Hightower was one of the worst pass coverage LBs out there.

TonyR
05-10-2012, 08:55 AM
...Nate Irving...I think he will take Joe Mays spot after a year of learning the playbook...

I hope so, but it makes one wonder why they paid Mays so much money if this is the plan.

Bronco Rob
05-10-2012, 08:56 AM
Mays was a huge reason for this. He sucks in coverage. If he starts again, it will be just as bad or worse than last year.



For the life of me I can not understand why we paid Mays 13 million and passed on Jameel McCain...



???

enjolras
05-10-2012, 08:57 AM
I think people are forgetting about Nate Irving, who was only on the bench because he didn't know the defense. I think he will take Joe Mays spot after a year of learning the playbook. Von isn't bad in coverage. He just is such a good pass rusher we don't need to use him at coverage all the time when woody and DJ are out there and is better at it then him.

I've heard it suggested from the guys on the radio (multiple sources) that the Broncos had no intention of playing Irving last year at all. They saw that as a red-shirt year as there was lingering concern he was not fully recovered from his injuries. Furthermore, they thought he could put on some additional weight.

If that's all true, you'd expect him to make a strong push at camp for that starting job.

hambone13
05-10-2012, 08:57 AM
I hope so, but it makes one wonder why they paid Mays so much money if this is the plan.

I agree in financial principal but Mays does seem to have some leadership elements that weren't always apparent.

Bmore Manning
05-10-2012, 09:04 AM
For the life of me I can not understand why we paid Mays 13 million and passed on Jameel McCain...



???

Jameel is stout against the run, but he's a liability in pass coverage as well. I liked Hawthorne, Saints got a steal on him. Denver could have gotten him for less than 4 million (Mays contract) which Hawthorne took less than to play in the big easy.
I would have paid Loftons 5 million.

Mogulseeker
05-10-2012, 09:21 AM
If you are judging him based on his combine performance you should know he was nursing a Hammy injury, and ran a sub 4.4-4.5 at his pro day. Trevathan plays fast, I suggest you watch some of his game tape. I liked him heading into the draft and even mocked him as our sixth round pick. One of the Pro football sites and Walterfootball wrote an article on him a month ago, calling him a young Lance Briggs, per the mouth of scouts. As you know those sites report what others say.


I hope you're right. A big guy with that kind of speed could help us immensely against Gronk.

Lestat
05-10-2012, 09:27 AM
Irving has to step up and make Mays an overpaid back up. we need improved MLB play and Irving would solve the need at MLB for 10+ seasons if he can bring it.

Bmore Manning
05-10-2012, 09:33 AM
Irving has to step up and make Mays an overpaid back up. we need improved MLB play and Irving would solve the need at MLB for 10+ seasons if he can bring it.

I can see Franklin really pushing them both!

Bmore Manning
05-10-2012, 09:35 AM
I hope you're right. A big guy with that kind of speed could help us immensely against Gronk.

Trevathan is under 240, he's not that big. Fox even said this guy plays incredibly fast. Remember 40 time can be improved or suffer as a result of technique, that can shave time off or add time.

Mogulseeker
05-10-2012, 09:42 AM
Trevathan is under 240, he's not that big. Fox even said this guy plays incredibly fast. Remember 40 time can be improved or suffer as a result of technique, that can shave time off or add time.

He has safety speed. 233lbs is huge for a safety. He'll be covering TEs... he's like a tweening OLB-SS

Lestat
05-10-2012, 09:43 AM
I hope you're right. A big guy with that kind of speed could help us immensely against Gronk.

he's a lot faster than he ran at the combine. Fox and Elway both said they have it on good authority that he's much faster(it was tongue in cheek about his pro day and people still going off the combine.)

I can see Franklin really pushing them both!
i like Franklin but i don't think he does so this year. next year definitely, but not this year.

He has safety speed. 233lbs is huge for a safety. He'll be covering TEs... he's like a tweening OLB-SS
he's not a tweener at all. he's a full on WLB. he's just smallish and fast.

Bmore Manning
05-10-2012, 09:46 AM
He has safety speed. 233lbs is huge for a safety. He'll be covering TEs... he's like a tweening OLB-SS

Exactly, he and Woodyard in Nickel packages wil be much improved for passing downs. Trevathan is a really good player! I think he and Jackson and Bolden will be STEALS. The more I think about the more I think Elway listened to scouts and made some great quality picks. And many will be pleasantly surprised with this draft.

DivineLegion
05-10-2012, 09:59 AM
Ian Gold 2.0

Rohirrim
05-10-2012, 10:05 AM
Mario haggan did it against the Vikings in 2011. Even returned it for a TD.


And Hightower was one of the worst pass coverage LBs out there.

Wrong. He wasn't the best at man, but good at zone, and also very good at hitting his man at the line, pass rushing and stuffing the run. Of course, if he was perfect at everything, he would have been in the top five and unreachable by the Broncos. Excepting Miller, he'd be better than anything else at the LB position the Broncos have now. Judging by the moves the Broncos have made, they are wisely going for the enhanced pass rush, which Hightower would have excelled at, especially alongside Miller and Dumervil. What you give up in man coverage, you gain in pass rush, and run stopping.

Pontius Pirate
05-10-2012, 10:08 AM
What about Julian Peterson? He's been out of football for about a year, but he's probably in good shape. Dude was a pro-bowler for three straight years in Seattle.

Bmore Manning
05-10-2012, 10:10 AM
Yeah bro agreed, his coverage skills were vastly underrated along with his versatility and ability to pass rush. I wanted him.. He, Von, and DJ would be great, with Trevathan and Woodyard Nickel LBs. Had Mays not been signed I think they would have taken Hightower.

DENVERDUI55
05-10-2012, 10:37 AM
We got the most expensive underachieving LB's in the game. DJ's money and Mays money is waaaaaay to much for an average LB and a journeyman that is starting out of default.

Agamemnon
05-10-2012, 11:27 AM
It's not just the linebackers that killed us in pass coverage last year. Our safeties were horrific in all aspects of the game.

eddie mac
05-10-2012, 11:36 AM
Sure we all know the front 7 wont be a problem and didn't need to be addressed considering Manning's going to be running up 21 point leads in every game before the opposition even realise the game has started.

Bronco Rob
05-10-2012, 05:52 PM
Ian Gold 2.0





Yikes!

DBroncos4life
05-10-2012, 05:59 PM
I hope we run a 5-1-5 nickel D cause our LB's in coverage is pointless.

Bmore Manning
05-10-2012, 06:20 PM
I really think that Trevathan and Woodyard will be quality in nickel packages.

Baba Booey
05-10-2012, 06:44 PM
Really hoping Irving can make some noise.

If not, Jerry Franklin is legit.

CoopDawg
05-10-2012, 07:31 PM
I am excited to see if Irving can tackle more consistently than Mays. I got so frustrated last season whenever opposing players would break through or slip past Mays.

Drek
05-10-2012, 07:39 PM
If you are judging him based on his combine performance you should know he was nursing a Hammy injury, and ran a sub 4.4-4.5 at his pro day. Trevathan plays fast, I suggest you watch some of his game tape. I liked him heading into the draft and even mocked him as our sixth round pick. One of the Pro football sites and Walterfootball wrote an article on him a month ago, calling him a young Lance Briggs, per the mouth of scouts. As you know those sites report what others say.

He dicked up his hammy AT the combine and ran in the 4.8's at his pro day. There is no reason to think he can run a 4.4-4.5.

He was on a similar pace at the combine prior to hurting his hamstring to what guys who ran 4.7's were at from the breakdowns I've seen mentioned. There is no reason to believe he's particularly fast for a linebacker.

McDman
05-10-2012, 08:07 PM
It's not just the linebackers that killed us in pass coverage last year. Our safeties were horrific in all aspects of the game.

That's why we got Adams. He will be the best coverage safety we've had in years. I honestly can't remember the last time we had a safety who could cover anyone.

Bmore Manning
05-10-2012, 08:11 PM
He dicked up his hammy AT the combine and ran in the 4.8's at his pro day. There is no reason to think he can run a 4.4-4.5.

He was on a similar pace at the combine prior to hurting his hamstring to what guys who ran 4.7's were at from the breakdowns I've seen mentioned. There is no reason to believe he's particularly fast for a linebacker.

That's not correct at all. For a knowledgeable guy you are, I would think you would have solid research done on Trevathan. It may have been a private workout, post combine, if your saying he ran a slow 4.8 at his pro day. I know I read that he's sub 4.4-4.5, he's fast on film Elway and Fox acknowledged that.
Time will tell.. Save this post or remember I said he's fast.

Agamemnon
05-10-2012, 09:57 PM
That's why we got Adams. He will be the best coverage safety we've had in years. I honestly can't remember the last time we had a safety who could cover anyone.

And we lost Dawkins. I'm not seeing an overall improvement of the unit personally.

Doggcow
05-10-2012, 10:00 PM
Really wish we had gone after Demeco Ryans

pricejj
05-10-2012, 10:24 PM
Danny Trevathan – 6’002”, 237 lbs., 4.5 forty
Al Wilson – 5’116”, 239 lbs., 4.56 forty
D.J. Williams – 6’006”, 242 lbs., 4.54 forty
Joe Mays – 5’110”, 250 lbs., 4.87 forty

Trevathan is the same size and speed as Al Wilson and D.J. Williams.

College Stats:
2010 – Junior - 145 tackles, 3 sacks, 4 FF’s
2011 – Senior - 143 tackles, 3 sacks, 4 FF’s, 4 INT’s

That is a heckuva lot of production.


Danny Trevathan vs. Auburn 2010
<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9NldlR1nmvI?version=3&feature=player_detailpage"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9NldlR1nmvI?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

Danny Trevathan vs. Georgia 2011
<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7_AUk2rRlF8?version=3&feature=player_detailpage"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7_AUk2rRlF8?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

The tape don't lie.

Agamemnon
05-10-2012, 11:02 PM
Danny Trevathan – 6’002”, 237 lbs., 4.5 forty
Al Wilson – 5’116”, 239 lbs., 4.56 forty
D.J. Williams – 6’006”, 242 lbs., 4.54 forty
Joe Mays – 5’110”, 250 lbs., 4.87 forty

Trevathan is the same size and speed as Al Wilson and D.J. Williams.

College Stats:
2010 – Junior - 145 tackles, 3 sacks, 4 FF’s
2011 – Senior - 143 tackles, 3 sacks, 4 FF’s, 4 INT’s

That is a heckuva lot of production.


Danny Trevathan vs. Auburn 2010
<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9NldlR1nmvI?version=3&feature=player_detailpage"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9NldlR1nmvI?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

Danny Trevathan vs. Georgia 2011
<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7_AUk2rRlF8?version=3&feature=player_detailpage"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7_AUk2rRlF8?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

The tape don't lie.

Definitely looks like he could be a good WLB, no doubt about it, but he isn't 237 in those clips. Not even close. That said, he plays bigger than his size, so as long as he plays WLB only, I really don't see his size hurting him much. You can tell though that size is the number one reason he dropped to the sixth round.

BroncoBuff
05-11-2012, 12:26 AM
Uhh, cough, Hightower.

Okay. That's the last time I'll bring that up...

probably. ;D

How about *cough* Lavonte David - Nebraska's all-time leading tackler and #1 ranked WLB in the draft ... available when Osweiler was picked

And maybe *cough* Audie Cole - MLB, available when we chose Ian Gold-errrr ... I mean Danny Trevathan. MLB is at most a 2-down position in this defense. Cole is bigger, faster, better against the run, and was universally higher ranked in the draft - sometimes MUCH higher - than Gold. Errr... I mean Trevathan!

I love Hightower, he captained that ridiculous Tide defense as a sophomore and junior, no mean feat. His leadership would be perfect here. But he can't play the weakside, so he'd probably be a 2-down MLB only. A 3-4 defense will keep him on the field longer, I bet he kills with New England.

Agamemnon
05-11-2012, 12:45 AM
How about *cough* Lavonte David - Nebraska's all-time leading tackler and #1 ranked WLB in the draft ... available when Osweiler was picked

And maybe *cough* Audie Cole - MLB, available when we chose Ian Gold-errrr ... I mean Danny Trevathan. MLB is at most a 2-down position in this defense. Cole is bigger, faster, better against the run, and was universally higher ranked in the draft - sometimes MUCH higher - than Gold. Errr... I mean Trevathan!

I love Hightower, he captained that ridiculous Tide defense as a sophomore and junior, no mean feat. His leadership would be perfect here. But he can't play the weakside, so he'd probably be a 2-down MLB only. A 3-4 defense will keep him on the field longer, I bet he kills with New England.

Osweiler over David simply boggles the mind.

But Trevathan plays much more physical than Woodyard, so that comparison is pretty superficial.

BroncoBuff
05-11-2012, 01:14 AM
The tape don't lie.

No, but you lie about Trevathan's 40 times (jk)

Danny Trevathan – 6’002”, 237 lbs., <span style="text-decoration: line-through;"> 4.5 forty </span> - #29 ranked OLB, #362 overall.
Al Wilson – 5’116”, 239 lbs., 4.56 forty
D.J. Williams – 6’006”, 242 lbs., 4.54 forty
Joe Mays – 5’110”, 250 lbs., 4.87 forty
Audie Cole - 6'3" 248 lb. 4.80 avg. forty - #7 ranked ILB, #184 overall


*Trevathan's 40 times averaged 4.76 (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=84691&draftyear=2012&genpos=OLB).

Aga is right, weight is why Trevathan returned for his senior season and why he dropped that far. Apparently he has a tough time keeping the pounds on

hambone13
05-11-2012, 01:29 AM
No, but you lie about Trevathan's 40 times (jk)

Danny Trevathan – 6’002”, 237 lbs., <span style="text-decoration: line-through;"> 4.5 forty </span> - #29 ranked OLB, #362 overall.
Al Wilson – 5’116”, 239 lbs., 4.56 forty
D.J. Williams – 6’006”, 242 lbs., 4.54 forty
Joe Mays – 5’110”, 250 lbs., 4.87 forty
Audie Cole - 6'3" 248 lb. 4.80 avg. forty - #7 ranked ILB, #184 overall


*Trevathan's 40 times averaged 4.76 (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=84691&draftyear=2012&genpos=OLB).

Aga is right, weight is why Trevathan returned for his senior season and why he dropped that far. Apparently he has a tough time keeping the pounds on

40 Times mean nothing. It's game speed. I love that the Elway organization is focusing on production. His SEC numbers are awesome. I like his chances based on production not physical pedigree. It's much easier for me to swallow, especially from a value perspective.

pricejj
05-11-2012, 02:20 AM
No, but you lie about Trevathan's 40 times (jk)


*Trevathan's 40 times averaged 4.76 (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=84691&draftyear=2012&genpos=OLB).

Aga is right, weight is why Trevathan returned for his senior season and why he dropped that far. Apparently he has a tough time keeping the pounds on

You are incorrect on both counts. Trevathan was nursing a pulled hamstring during the Combine and Pro Day. It has been well documented. Trevathan ran 4.45 in high school when he weighed 232 lbs. He now weighs 237 lbs., and I would be willing to wager he runs in the 4.5's just like Al Wilson and D.J. Williams. You can tell from his pursuit across the field on tape.

Drek
05-11-2012, 02:58 AM
You are incorrect on both counts. Trevathan was nursing a pulled hamstring during the Combine and Pro Day. It has been well documented. Trevathan ran 4.45 in high school when he weighed 232 lbs. He now weighs 237 lbs., and I would be willing to wager he runs in the 4.5's just like Al Wilson and D.J. Williams. You can tell from his pursuit across the field on tape.

I have a cousin who ran a 4.35 in high school at 225 pounds. When he got to Syracuse and the coaches actually knew how to time a 40 he suddenly ran a 4.6. And that was still hand timed which everyone generally accepts to be 0.10 seconds off from laser timed due to human error, typically in the "too fast" side of things.

High school means dick. Trevathan also hurt his hamstring at the combine:
Denver Post Article (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20504202)
Danny Trevathan, LB, Kentucky
Round 6 (188th overall pick)

Measurables: 6-0, 237 Ran 4.82 in the 40-yard dash at his pro day workout in early March, but had suffered a hamstring injury during the 40 at the scouting combine the previous week He had a 31 ˝-inch vertical jump and a 9-4 broad jump.

So how about all you "Danny Trevathan was one of the fastest players (not just LBs) in this entire class!" people back you **** up with some real proof before acting like it's a fact.

40 Times mean nothing. It's game speed. I love that the Elway organization is focusing on production. His SEC numbers are awesome. I like his chances based on production not physical pedigree. It's much easier for me to swallow, especially from a value perspective.
Of course 40 times don't mean much, if anything. But there's still no reason to keep parading a fake number around to make him sound like a better prospect. He's a heady football player with questionable athleticism and size, just like Woodyard.

Everyone said Woodyard was a LB/SS hybrid and so would be strong in coverage but instead he sucks at coverage and is at his best when playing the run. So lets check the hype a bit.

Broncos_OTM
05-11-2012, 03:31 AM
If you are judging him based on his combine performance you should know he was nursing a Hammy injury, and ran a sub 4.4-4.5 at his pro day. Trevathan plays fast, I suggest you watch some of his game tape. I liked him heading into the draft and even mocked him as our sixth round pick. One of the Pro football sites and Walterfootball wrote an article on him a month ago, calling him a young Lance Briggs, per the mouth of scouts. As you know those sites report what others say.people always are talking about where they mock this or that player at. I'm asking what other sites are you apart of cause unless I missed it you didn't mock him on the mane

Broncos_OTM
05-11-2012, 03:51 AM
Danny Trevathan – 6’002”, 237 lbs., 4.5 forty
Al Wilson – 5’116”, 239 lbs., 4.56 forty
D.J. Williams – 6’006”, 242 lbs., 4.54 forty
Joe Mays – 5’110”, 250 lbs., 4.87 forty

Trevathan is the same size and speed as Al Wilson and D.J. Williams.

College Stats:
2010 – Junior - 145 tackles, 3 sacks, 4 FF’s
2011 – Senior - 143 tackles, 3 sacks, 4 FF’s, 4 INT’s

That is a heckuva lot of production.


Danny Trevathan vs. Auburn 2010
<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9NldlR1nmvI?version=3&feature=player_detailpage"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9NldlR1nmvI?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-heflash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

Danny Trevathan vs. Georgia 2011
<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7_AUk2rRlF8?version=3&feature=player_detailpage"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7_AUk2rRlF8?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

The tape don't lie.heaven he is engaged by lineman he is easily pushed around, gets lost in traffic. not as good as you know on obvious runs allows to many plus plays. to me he looked really slow in the auburn game I was nit overly impressed. based on his college tape I don't think hell make the team just my. thoughts though

Bmore Manning
05-11-2012, 04:38 AM
people always are talking about where they mock this or that player at. I'm asking what other sites are you apart of cause unless I missed it you didn't mock him on the mane

Bmore Manning Mock 1.0

I'll find it for you, since you seem to hate so much.

Bmore Manning
05-11-2012, 04:40 AM
I have a cousin who ran a 4.35 in high school at 225 pounds. When he got to Syracuse and the coaches actually knew how to time a 40 he suddenly ran a 4.6. And that was still hand timed which everyone generally accepts to be 0.10 seconds off from laser timed due to human error, typically in the "too fast" side of things.

High school means dick. Trevathan also hurt his hamstring at the combine:
Denver Post Article (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20504202)


So how about all you "Danny Trevathan was one of the fastest players (not just LBs) in this entire class!" people back you **** up with some real proof before acting like it's a fact.


Of course 40 times don't mean much, if anything. But there's still no reason to keep parading a fake number around to make him sound like a better prospect. He's a heady football player with questionable athleticism and size, just like Woodyard.

Everyone said Woodyard was a LB/SS hybrid and so would be strong in coverage but instead he sucks at coverage and is at his best when playing the run. So lets check the hype a bit.

I said he was faster than 4.7-4.8, I didn't call him the fastest prospect at LB let alone player. 40 time is alot of technique give me the guy who plays fast in game on the field, than in underarmour.

Broncos_OTM
05-11-2012, 04:54 AM
Bmore Manning Mock 1.0

I'll find it for you, since you seem to hate so much. I just still think after your initial post on this site. I have alot of insight, come back to reality. you like football
but to thinkbyou can add anymore insight then any other yahoo on this site y.our delusional. especially after your crown Jewell of Hightower a good fit for this defense. look at McClain in Oakland he was 2tines the linebacker Hightower is. although McClain has had issues other then his on the field incidents. I'm sorry first impressions mean alot and yours is what left me questioning even your amateur arm chair scout into question. sue me.

Broncos_OTM
05-11-2012, 04:55 AM
I said he was faster than 4.7-4.8, I didn't call him the fastest prospect at LB let alone player. 40 time is alot of technique give me the guy who plays fast in game on the field, than in underarmour.
then why go on gushing about his 40 speed...

Bmore Manning
05-11-2012, 04:59 AM
then why go on gushing about his 40 speed...

I said he's faster than the combine numbers, I'm not gushing about 40 time.

Bmore Manning
05-11-2012, 05:03 AM
I just still think after your initial post on this site. I have alot of insight, come back to reality. you like football
but to thinkbyou can add anymore insight then any other yahoo on this site y.our delusional. especially after your crown Jewell of Hightower a good fit for this defense. look at McClain in Oakland he was 2tines the linebacker Hightower is. although McClain has had issues other then his on the field incidents. I'm sorry first impressions mean alot and yours is what left me questioning even your amateur arm chair scout into question. sue me.

Hightower is a better run defender than Irving and Mays. Hightower is better in pass protection than Mays, Jury's out on Irving. Hightower played OLB/DE at Alabama also. He could be a two down Mike, and a third down pass rusher. That makes him a three down player. Von Miller was a 3-4 OLB, but.. Talent is talent, and you take talent and use their attributes in your system. Hightower is also a good leader. I think he would have been a great value pick @25, had Denver not signed Mays, he'd be a Bronco.

Broncos_OTM
05-11-2012, 05:10 AM
Hightower is a better run defender than Irving and Mays. Hightower is better in pass protection than Mays, Jury's out on Irving. Hightower played OLB/DE at Alabama also. He could be a two down Mike, and a third down pass rusher. That makes him a three down player. Von Miller was a 3-4 OLB, but.. Talent is talent, and you take talent and use their attributes in your system. Hightower is also a good leader. I think he would have been a great value pick @25, had Denver not signed Mays, he'd be a Bronco.

I embellished a bit on the gushing part. but I hope you can read through my embellishment

did you forget that as a three down player that takes possibly one of our strengths off the field, in Von miller. as a two down mike I think he could be outstanding inside the tackles. ask him play sideline to sideline though like fox likes his linebackers to play and its not that great.

and to say he is better then Mays is not saying a whole lot

Drek
05-11-2012, 05:45 AM
I said he was faster than 4.7-4.8, I didn't call him the fastest prospect at LB let alone player. 40 time is alot of technique give me the guy who plays fast in game on the field, than in underarmour.

You said he ran between 4.4 to 4.5 at his pro day. That would be one of the best LB times in recent history and one of the best times for this entire draft class. Ronnie Hillman ran a 4.45 40, he was one of the faster guys in this class.

Was his pro day a legitimate measure of his speed? Probably not. Does it even matter that much for his long term prospects? Not really. But lets keep the discussion grounded in facts here.

Bmore Manning
05-11-2012, 06:02 AM
I embellished a bit on the gushing part. but I hope you can read through my embellishment

did you forget that as a three down player that takes possibly one of our strengths off the field, in Von miller. as a two down mike I think he could be outstanding inside the tackles. ask him play sideline to sideline though like fox likes his linebackers to play and its not that great.

and to say he is better then Mays is not saying a whole lot

Yeah, it doesn't say much to be better than Mays. Hightower could Blitz up the middle, or come from Sam like miller, and kick Miller to DE as they do on third downs. There are ways to get your best players on the field. I just think @25 he was BPA, and talent is talent. Is he the ideal 4-3 Mike? Probably not, but everything he does he does well. And just like with Miller I think you take BPA and make that player work.

DBroncos4life
05-11-2012, 06:13 AM
You are incorrect on both counts. Trevathan was nursing a pulled hamstring during the Combine and Pro Day. It has been well documented. Trevathan ran 4.45 in high school when he weighed 232 lbs. He now weighs 237 lbs., and I would be willing to wager he runs in the 4.5's just like Al Wilson and D.J. Williams. You can tell from his pursuit across the field on tape.

Scout.com had him listed at 225 coming out of HS.

http://kentucky.scout.com/a.z?s=48&p=8&c=1&nid=4273783

cutthemdown
05-11-2012, 06:20 AM
Dj doesn't shed blocks well, but he can cover. Mays has a great motor and blow up some plays, but he makes a lot of mistakes and gets out of position easily. Miller is a great pass rusher, and can defend the run pretty good, but hasn't yet learned how to cover all that well. Not saying I agree it's the weakest spot on team but it's easy to figure out why they aren't dominant.

I actually think Woodyard about the same player DJ is so I don't think we will miss DJ all that much during his suspension.

BroncoBuff
05-11-2012, 06:55 AM
Osweiler over David simply boggles the mind.

I agree, it's almost a kind of lunacy. Against all prevailing conventional wisdom, it seems like maybe they're clinging to the idea that a clipboard-carrying QBOTF is a time-honored necessity, rather than the largely abandoned process it is.

And think about this: Wouldn't it have been fun to draft a 1st round QB in 2014/15? Trade up a few spots maybe, get the cornerstone guy Cutler was supposed to have been? Such a strategy would've been in step with modern CW, and would've resulted in a better (or at least more highly rated) QB.



** With all wailing and gnashing of teeth over Lavonte David (mine included), it's only fair to point out he and Danny Trevathan are the same size. David 3/4 inch taller, Danny 4 pounds heavier.

Bronco Rob
05-11-2012, 05:12 PM
Dj doesn't shed blocks well, but he can cover. Mays has a great motor and blow up some plays, but he makes a lot of mistakes and gets out of position easily. Miller is a great pass rusher, and can defend the run pretty good, but hasn't yet learned how to cover all that well. Not saying I agree it's the weakest spot on team but it's easy to figure out why they aren't dominant.

I actually think Woodyard about the same player DJ is so I don't think we will miss DJ all that much during his suspension.


Mays is NOT a starting MLB.

broncogary
05-11-2012, 08:39 PM
Dj doesn't shed blocks well, but he can cover. Mays has a great motor and blow up some plays, but he makes a lot of mistakes and gets out of position easily. Miller is a great pass rusher, and can defend the run pretty good, but hasn't yet learned how to cover all that well. Not saying I agree it's the weakest spot on team but it's easy to figure out why they aren't dominant.

I actually think Woodyard about the same player DJ is so I don't think we will miss DJ all that much during his suspension.

Yep DJ covers and then he tackles the guy after the catch. ;D

Broncos_OTM
05-11-2012, 08:55 PM
[QUOTE=Bmore Manning;3586586]Yeah, it doesn't say much to be better than Mays. Hightower could Blitz up the middle, or come from Sam like miller, and kick Miller to DE as they do on third downs. There are ways to get your best players on the field. I just think @25 he was BPA, and talent is talent. Is he the ideal 4-3 Mike? Probably not, but everything he does he does well. And just like with Miller I think you take BPA and make that player work.[/Qout] Hightower would the DE in pass rushing situations at DE he's a liability in coverage. plus asking him to rush from the sam spot would negate anything he's not quick like miller. rushing from the mike spot would be good though as it would generate a pass rush up the middle. but still he's not a sideline to sideline defender. so he has his shortcomings in this defense as a mike. we have Von whose role is what high towers would be on third down. I'm sorry but Hightower is not very dynamic in this defense. really though as a MLB I don't think he's that much better then Mays as a run defender. although he tackles better. still just a crappy idea. as 3-4 linebacker I would taken him in a heartbeat

pricejj
05-14-2012, 08:02 AM
Scout.com had him listed at 225 coming out of HS.

http://kentucky.scout.com/a.z?s=48&p=8&c=1&nid=4273783

Thanks for the correction. He is listed as 232 on the UK website, last updated at the end of 2010 season. My bad.

http://www.ukathletics.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/trevathan_danny00.html

Bronco Rob
05-14-2012, 01:51 PM
Del Rio has plenty of praise for Mike backer Joe Mays and says he intends for his defense to help Mays improve by shrinking the gaps he's responsible for covering.



Really?

Punisher
05-14-2012, 01:53 PM
Really?

:~ohyah!:

Come on Mays isn't that bad

Bronco Rob
05-14-2012, 02:23 PM
:~ohyah!:

Come on Mays isn't that bad



He must not be if Del Rio convinced Bowlen to put a couple of his cases of his twenty seven year old scotch on Ebay to cover the 13 million..



:sunshine:

R-Mac
05-14-2012, 02:31 PM
The Broncos drafted 3 LBs last year and another LB this year. DT is a much bigger need, and the Broncos might release Ty Warren after asking him to take a pay cut. The depth at DT is atrocious.

Bronco Rob
05-15-2012, 01:51 PM
Mike, we needed a strong middle linebacker to replace Joe Mays, who I think is below average as a MLB. Dont'a Hightower seemed a great choice and I think a better one than Wolfe and Omar Bolden combined. What's your thought? --Dave C., Irvine, Calif.


Mays is better than average and I can prove it. Had he not re-signed with the Broncos, he would have replaced either the New Orleans Saints' Jonathan Vilma or Indianapolis Colts' Gary Brackett as their starting middle linebacker. Both teams pursued Mays in free agency, forcing the Broncos to up their offer to three years and $12 million, with $4 million in 2012 guaranteed.

When two other teams say you are good enough to replace Vilma and Brackett, you are better than below-average.

As for Hightower, the Broncos talked at length about taking him at No. 25. Instead, they traded out of the pick and New England took him at No. 25.

I disagree with helping the Patriots, who are perennially the team to beat in the AFC, get the player they most coveted to fortify their 3-4 defense. But I don’'t disagree with passing on Hightower. At 265 pounds, he'’s a tweener. He can only play inside linebacker in the 3-4, or defensive end in the 4-3. The Broncos are stacked at defensive end with Elvis Dumervil, Von Miller (on passing downs), Robert Ayers (on running downs) and now Wolfe (possibly on running downs). But Hightower should be a very good player for the Pats.




http://www.denverpost.com/broncosmailbag/ci_20622421/broncos-mailbag-after-denver-drafted-need-john-fox