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Bronco Rob
05-10-2012, 07:01 AM
ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- The burning question for the Denver Broncos this offseason, buried in the frenzy of Peyton Manning’s arrival and Tim Tebow’s departure, was the middle of the team's defensive line.

It was a mess, particularly after the underrated Brodrick Bunkley signed with the New Orleans Saints.

The Broncos, however, have quietly improved the defensive tackle position and it looks far from being an ugly situation. Now, I’m not saying Denver will have the best group of defensive tackles in the league. But after watching the unit at Tuesday’s minicamp, I don't think it is a lost cause either.

The team drafted Derek Wolfe (who can also play end) with the No. 36 pick and signed Justin Bannan. They agreed to a reduced contract with Ty Warren and are getting a healthy Kevin Vickerson back.

The Broncos are also giving former practice squader Sealver Siliga a chance at nose tackle. He is a wide body who is worth developing.

I see this as a group that will rotate often and be effective under John Fox and Jack Del Rio. Again, they may not be world beaters, but Denver’s situation at defensive tackle may not be as dire as previously considered.



http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/44931/denver-has-hope-at-defensive-tackle

baja
05-10-2012, 07:12 AM
Perhaps the Broncos are waiting until June 1 when Franklin’s status shifts from unrestricted free agent to “street” free agent and therefore would not be subject to the league’s compensatory draft pick formula.



why would we care?

Gcver2ver3
05-10-2012, 07:49 AM
why would we care?

Lol... you beat me to it...

Why on earth do we care if the niners get a compensatory pick for losing franklin?...

How does that affect us?... what am i missing?...

TheReverend
05-10-2012, 08:06 AM
Lol... you beat me to it...

Why on earth do we care if the niners get a compensatory pick for losing franklin?...

How does that affect us?... what am i missing?...

We dont and Franklin isnt worth it anyway. Bannan can absolutely play a 43 NT along with Warren. And hell, ftr, Marcus Thomas refers to himself as a "natural 43 NT".

Bmore Manning
05-10-2012, 08:10 AM
I am genuinely concerned with the lack of talent and depth on Denver's interrior defensive line. They didn't sign an UDFA or draft a NT. Yet a team like the Ravens took Jean-Baptiste and Tyson from Georgia to play NT/DT, while they have the monster Terrance Cody. You can never have enough talent and depth in the trenches.

Now, Franklin signed a one year deal with Saints last year, why would San Fran get a draft pick in compensatory? Shouldn't if anyone it be the Saints? Yet he signed a one year deal, so Denver shouldn't worry about losing a potential late round compensatory pick if they feel he can contribute and help this D. So if he's still a UFA, can Denver still get Sammie Hill?

gyldenlove
05-10-2012, 08:32 AM
We dont and Franklin isnt worth it anyway. Bannan can absolutely play a 43 NT along with Warren. And hell, ftr, Marcus Thomas refers to himself as a "natural 43 NT".

Franklin was a huge failure at 43 NT with the Saints - signing people because they are fat is the worst idea in the world. Jay Ratliff is a pro-bowl 34 NT at 300 lbs, it is about skillset and talent, not waistsize.

CEH
05-10-2012, 08:32 AM
I am genuinely concerned with the lack of talent and depth on Denver's interrior defensive line. They didn't sign an UDFA or draft a NT. Yet a team like the Ravens took Jean-Baptiste and Tyson from Georgia to play NT/DT, while they have the monster Terrance Cody. You can never have enough talent and depth in the trenches.

Now, Franklin signed a one year deal with Saints last year, why would San Fran get a draft pick in compensatory? Shouldn't if anyone it be the Saints? Yet he signed a one year deal, so Denver shouldn't worry about losing a potential late round compensatory pick if they feel he can contribute and help this D. So if he's still a UFA, can Denver still get Sammie Hill?

Plus they signed our reject Mcbean. I'm concerned they didn't really address the DT position when there were several options/upgrades out there and plenty of money to spend. Just doesn't make sense.

Odd situation for the Front Office.

gyldenlove
05-10-2012, 08:33 AM
I am genuinely concerned with the lack of talent and depth on Denver's interrior defensive line. They didn't sign an UDFA or draft a NT. Yet a team like the Ravens took Jean-Baptiste and Tyson from Georgia to play NT/DT, while they have the monster Terrance Cody. You can never have enough talent and depth in the trenches.

Now, Franklin signed a one year deal with Saints last year, why would San Fran get a draft pick in compensatory? Shouldn't if anyone it be the Saints? Yet he signed a one year deal, so Denver shouldn't worry about losing a potential late round compensatory pick if they feel he can contribute and help this D. So if he's still a UFA, can Denver still get Sammie Hill?

Cody can't play more than 30-40% of the snaps during a game, with their 2 gap system they absolutely need a space eater in there. We put a lot less pressure on our NTs and have more atheltic guys who can play more downs.

Bigdawg26
05-10-2012, 08:44 AM
Yeah Franklin and Shaun Rogers were epic fails in New Orleans. It's pointless to get Franklin right now.

SpringStein
05-10-2012, 08:47 AM
Lol... you beat me to it...

Why on earth do we care if the niners get a compensatory pick for losing franklin?...

How does that affect us?... what am i missing?...

We currently will receive either 2 or 3 comp picks for next year. If we sign someone prior to June 1, that will be one less comp pick.

gyldenlove
05-10-2012, 08:55 AM
We currently will receive either 2 or 3 comp picks for next year. If we sign someone prior to June 1, that will be one less comp pick.

Putting a lot of faith in Royal producing?

We lost Bunkley and Royal and signed Porter, Tammie and Dreesen - we should get 1 unless something weird happens, 2 is probably a best cast scenario unless we end in last place in which case we may very well get a consolation pick in the 7th round.

Bmore Manning
05-10-2012, 08:59 AM
Plus they signed our reject Mcbean. I'm concerned they didn't really address the DT position when there were several options/upgrades out there and plenty of money to spend. Just doesn't make sense.

Odd situation for the Front Office.

Yeah exactly. Why the Panic now, when Thompson, Ta Amu, Chapman, we're all out there, and Jean-Baptiste and other NTs available through UDFA.
Warren and Bannan are getting older, need a younger NT at some point.

Id give Anthony Adams a call after June 1st, or look to do a trade with a team possessing a quality NT, who is maybe a back-up like a Sammie Hill.

SpringStein
05-10-2012, 09:04 AM
Putting a lot of faith in Royal producing?

We lost Bunkley and Royal and signed Porter, Tammie and Dreesen - we should get 1 unless something weird happens, 2 is probably a best cast scenario unless we end in last place in which case we may very well get a consolation pick in the 7th round.

Added: (6)
SS Mike Adams (Cleveland); CB Tracy Porter (New Orleans); TE Joel Dreesen (Houston); TE Jacob Tamme (Indianapolis); WR Andre Caldwell (Cincinnati); QB Caleb Hanie (Chicago)

Lost: (8)
WR Eddie Royal (San Diego); QB Brady Quinn (KC); TE Daniel Fells (New England); TE Dante Rosario (San Diego); DT Brodrick Bunkley (New Orleans); FB Spencer Larsen (New England); DE Derrick Harvey (Cincinnati); CB Jonathan Wilhite (Chicago)

I'm not sure how McBean counts since we pulled the offer and then Ravens signed him. I think Bunkley would be the one who could get us a 5th. Just a guess of course, but right now I'd think maybe a 5th and 7th for comp picks next year.

TonyR
05-10-2012, 09:06 AM
Yeah Franklin and Shaun Rogers were epic fails in New Orleans. It's pointless to get Franklin right now.

I don't necessarily disagree. And yet the Giants, with one of the best personnel dept's in the league, went out and signed Shaun Rogers. So they apparently don't agree with this line of thinking.

mwill07
05-10-2012, 09:09 AM
Added: (6)
SS Mike Adams (Cleveland); CB Tracy Porter (New Orleans); TE Joel Dreesen (Houston); TE Jacob Tamme (Indianapolis); WR Andre Caldwell (Cincinnati); QB Caleb Hanie (Chicago)

Lost: (8)
WR Eddie Royal (San Diego); QB Brady Quinn (KC); TE Daniel Fells (New England); TE Dante Rosario (San Diego); DT Brodrick Bunkley (New Orleans); FB Spencer Larsen (New England); DE Derrick Harvey (Cincinnati); CB Jonathan Wilhite (Chicago)

I'm not sure how McBean counts since we pulled the offer and then Ravens signed him. I think Bunkley would be the one who could get us a 5th. Just a guess of course, but right now I'd think maybe a 5th and 7th for comp picks next year.
I think you guys are missing an addition. Not sure who, but I remember reading about it in March.

Bmore Manning
05-10-2012, 09:10 AM
I don't necessarily disagree. And yet the Giants, with one of the best personnel dept's in the league, went out and signed Shaun Rogers. So they apparently don't agree with this line of thinking.

Thank you!

And I got beat up on here for wanting Rogers as a rotational NT (His true position) over Bannan the 3/5 Tech Tweener. The Giants may know a thing or two about quality DLine personnel.

Bmore Manning
05-10-2012, 09:12 AM
I think you guys are missing an addition. Not sure who, but I remember reading about it in March.

Manning wasn't an UFA. He was cut from his contract, so while a free agent, he won't affect the compensatory pick process.

SpringStein
05-10-2012, 09:14 AM
Manning wasn't an UFA. He was cut from his contract, so while a free agent, he won't affect the compensatory pick process.

This is correct. The same with Justin Bannan.

Mogulseeker
05-10-2012, 09:14 AM
I wasn't too impressed with Justin Bannan when he was a Bronco. As a DE, he really lacked fluidity and didn't have the best jump in the world. He's more fit for a 4-3 nose tackle, though, so I guess we'll see.

The Broncos do have a bevy of 3-techs and honestly I don't see a legit nose tackle on the team. Warren and Bannan will play NT. I hope Warren can be more of his all-pro form than not... would have loved to have brought in Paul Soliai.

R-Mac
05-10-2012, 09:26 AM
Justin Bannan started for the 31st run defense last year and had to accept a 1-year, $1 million contract this offseason. Maybe he is done. It's a shame the Broncos made a trade for Brodrick Bunkley without agreeing to a long-term deal first. I don't expect the Broncos to stop the run, but I hope Peyton Manning scores more points than the other team.

Bmore Manning
05-10-2012, 09:42 AM
I wasn't too impressed with Justin Bannan when he was a Bronco. As a DE, he really lacked fluidity and didn't have the best jump in the world. He's more fit for a 4-3 nose tackle, though, so I guess we'll see.

The Broncos do have a bevy of 3-techs and honestly I don't see a legit nose tackle on the team. Warren and Bannan will play NT. I hope Warren can be more of his all-pro form than not... would have loved to have brought in Paul Soliai.

Yes! When I heard Denver wanted Soliai, I got really excited that they might land a real NT. I see Bannan as a 3Tech on run downs not a true NT. Warren if healthy is a solid 1 Tech, but there needs to be more.
A run down DT duo of Warren Bannan, pass down duo of Wolfe and Ayers/Jackson with the other at DE, that's good rotation.. But who starts at NT to help open things up for Wolfe? I wouldn't bank on Warren, he's not completely the same player. I say trade for Sammie Hill or give Anthony Adams a call.

Paladin
05-10-2012, 09:45 AM
I think you guys are missing an addition. Not sure who, but I remember reading about it in March.

Garland



(This message was typed without the aid of Mrs. TOG's nipples.)

gyldenlove
05-10-2012, 10:11 AM
Added: (6)
SS Mike Adams (Cleveland); CB Tracy Porter (New Orleans); TE Joel Dreesen (Houston); TE Jacob Tamme (Indianapolis); WR Andre Caldwell (Cincinnati); QB Caleb Hanie (Chicago)

Lost: (8)
WR Eddie Royal (San Diego); QB Brady Quinn (KC); TE Daniel Fells (New England); TE Dante Rosario (San Diego); DT Brodrick Bunkley (New Orleans); FB Spencer Larsen (New England); DE Derrick Harvey (Cincinnati); CB Jonathan Wilhite (Chicago)

I'm not sure how McBean counts since we pulled the offer and then Ravens signed him. I think Bunkley would be the one who could get us a 5th. Just a guess of course, but right now I'd think maybe a 5th and 7th for comp picks next year.

Contract sizes:

Jonathan Wilhite: 1 year, 700k
Bunkley: 5 years, 25 million (10 guaranteed)
Royal: 3 years, 13 million (6 guaranteed)
Rosario: 1 year, 700k
Larsen: 2 years, 1.7 million
Quinn: 1 year, 1.5 million
Fells: 3 years, 5.25 million (3 guaranteed)
Harvey: 1 year, 765k

Only 3 of these contracts are enough to net a comp pick by themselves: Bunkley, Royal and Fells assuming all 3 get playing time.

Players in:

Porter: 1 year, 4 million
Tamme: 3 years, 9 million (3 guaranteed)
Dreesen: 3 years, 8.5 million (2.5 guaranteed)
Adams: 2 years, 4 million (2 guaranteed)
Caldwell: 2 years, 1.8 million
Hanie: 2 years, 2.25 million

4 of those deals are big enough to net an individual comp pick: Porter, Dreesen, Tamme and Adams.

It is a given we will get a pick for Bunkley, depending how they offset it, it could be as high as a 4th rounder (that is what Green Bay got for losing Cullen Jenkins (who got a slightly bigger deal than Bunkley and was very productive)). Royal on his own could net a 6th rounder. Of the free agents we lost it is not a given that Wilhite, Rosario and Harvey will actually make the rosters of their respective teams.

We will get offsets for signing our free agents all of whom will make the roster. My prediction right now is that we get 2 picks, it will be 4th or 5th rounder for Bunkley and a 7th for general offset.

Bronco Rob
05-10-2012, 10:54 AM
Why is Fox/Del Rio so enamoured with Warren?

Bmore Manning
05-10-2012, 10:56 AM
Why is Fox/Del Rio so enamoured with Warren?

Are they really? What, Warren of three years ago?

Bronco Rob
05-10-2012, 11:12 AM
Are they really? What, Warren of three years ago?


Warren is making $5.25 million this season, so you tell me...

razorwire77
05-10-2012, 01:44 PM
Why is Fox/Del Rio so enamoured with Warren?

My guess is because he has rare athleticism and explosiveness for a man of his size. He's an immensely talented guy, he's just hurt all the time as of late.

Bigdawg26
05-10-2012, 02:33 PM
I hope Warren is going to be healthy for the whole season. I think our D-line would be awesome with Doom,Warren, Wolfe(hopes he takes Vicks spot), and Ayers this season.

bowtown
05-10-2012, 03:19 PM
why would we care?

If we did care it would only be so signing him doesn't dilute our possibility of getting a comp pick for bunk, royal, etc.

baja
05-10-2012, 03:56 PM
If we did care it would only be so signing him doesn't dilute our possibility of getting a comp pick for bunk, royal, etc.

Oh I see. Thanks!

broncosteven
05-10-2012, 04:20 PM
Yes! When I heard Denver wanted Soliai, I got really excited that they might land a real NT. I see Bannan as a 3Tech on run downs not a true NT. Warren if healthy is a solid 1 Tech, but there needs to be more.
A run down DT duo of Warren Bannan, pass down duo of Wolfe and Ayers/Jackson with the other at DE, that's good rotation.. But who starts at NT to help open things up for Wolfe? I wouldn't bank on Warren, he's not completely the same player. I say trade for Sammie Hill or give Anthony Adams a call.

I pimped Anthony Adams when he was cut. I still think he would be a decent addition to our rotation for a year or 2.

RaiderH8r
05-10-2012, 04:51 PM
My guess is because he has rare athleticism and explosiveness for a man of his size. He's an immensely talented guy, he's just hurt all the time as of late.

He does sit a mean soak tub and his quickness to the trainer's bench is second only to future training room champion hall of famer Knogo Moreno. Rarified air.

Traveler
05-10-2012, 04:54 PM
Justin Bannan started for the 31st run defense last year and had to accept a 1-year, $1 million contract this offseason. Maybe he is done. It's a shame the Broncos made a trade for Brodrick Bunkley without agreeing to a long-term deal first. I don't expect the Broncos to stop the run, but I hope Peyton Manning scores more points than the other team.

Could be part of the reason Xanders lost his job. 5th rounder gone next year as well as the player we traded for.

DBroncos4life
05-10-2012, 04:57 PM
He does sit a mean soak tub and his quickness to the trainer's bench is second only to future training room champion hall of famer Knogo Moreno. Rarified air.

One more time please its starting to get funny.....

RaiderH8r
05-10-2012, 05:00 PM
One more time please its starting to get funny.....

No, it's cool to bank the middle of the front 7 on Mays and a guy who has seen as much game time in two seasons as my dirty skivvies. We should run the 2-2-7 prevent d. Revolutionary.

RaiderH8r
05-10-2012, 05:00 PM
I forgot about Jarmon. Forget it, we're cool.

DBroncos4life
05-10-2012, 05:05 PM
No, it's cool to bank the middle of the front 7 on Mays and a guy who has seen as much game time in two seasons as my dirty skivvies. We should run the 2-2-7 prevent d. Revolutionary.

We have the same amount of DTs as last year but, by all means over react.

RaiderH8r
05-10-2012, 05:28 PM
We have the same amount of DTs as last year but, by all means over react.

Quantity>Quality

DBroncos4life
05-10-2012, 05:32 PM
Quantity>Quality

Let's read what you had to say about us trading for Bunkley!

I'm underwhelmed by the mediocrity of it all.

I'd argue that if we combined every DT we have they, together, might make for 1 passable NFL calibre DT. So, to answer your question, we need more. At least 1 but the way this FO operates our DTs translate to NFL DTs like pesos to dollars. Using the Bronco Conversion Rate for DTs then:

8 Bronco DTs=1 NFL DT

We need about 4 more DTs. This is going to eat into our game day roster. Sorry folks, we'll need to do without a kicker, punter, longsnapper or grounds crew.


It's not necessarily a bad thing just tremendously underwhelming. Again, not the type of commitment to address a position of not just need but desperation.
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3238194#post3238194
Now you are sad we let him go? How ever will we replace the 40% of playing time he gave us!

Bmore Manning
05-10-2012, 06:18 PM
I pimped Anthony Adams when he was cut. I still think he would be a decent addition to our rotation for a year or 2.

He has been a great 4-3 NT. I'd take him over Bannan and Franklin.

DBroncos4life
05-10-2012, 06:21 PM
He has been a great 4-3 NT. I'd take him over Bannan and Franklin.

Bannan isn't going anywhere might as well get over it dude. LOL

Bmore Manning
05-10-2012, 06:26 PM
Bannan isn't going anywhere might as well get over it dude. LOL

Ok.. It's a statement of preference.. Obviously Bannans one year tenure can't pass soon enough. :)

broncosteven
05-10-2012, 06:33 PM
He has been a great 4-3 NT. I'd take him over Bannan and Franklin.

I wouldn't say great, he isn't a pass rusher but he kept Urlicker pretty free to make plays and knows how to fill a gap and take on blockers which would be huge for Miller.

RaiderH8r
05-10-2012, 06:39 PM
Let's read what you had to say about us trading for Bunkley!







http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3238194#post3238194
Now you are sad we let him go? How ever will we replace the 40% of playing time he gave us!

I'm not pleased with any of it but if this is the **** sandwich we're getting served I guess I will take mine with the bun.

Bmore Manning
05-10-2012, 06:42 PM
I wouldn't say great, he isn't a pass rusher but he kept Urlicker pretty free to make plays and knows how to fill a gap and take on blockers which would be huge for Miller.

I would deff say good. That's the role of a NT, to keep the LBs free and clean and open things up everywhere along the line. He does exactly what a NT should do. Any sacks from a NT is an added bonus. Soliai doesn't make over 40 tackles or get sacks, but he is one of the best NTs in football.

Bronco Rob
05-11-2012, 12:06 AM
I hope Warren is going to be healthy for the whole season. I think our D-line would be awesome with Doom,Warren, Wolfe(hopes he takes Vicks spot), and Ayers this season.



In a perfect world yes.

Traveler
05-11-2012, 03:04 AM
Contract sizes:

Jonathan Wilhite: 1 year, 700k
Bunkley: 5 years, 25 million (10 guaranteed)
Royal: 3 years, 13 million (6 guaranteed)
Rosario: 1 year, 700k
Larsen: 2 years, 1.7 million
Quinn: 1 year, 1.5 million
Fells: 3 years, 5.25 million (3 guaranteed)
Harvey: 1 year, 765k

Only 3 of these contracts are enough to net a comp pick by themselves: Bunkley, Royal and Fells assuming all 3 get playing time.

Players in:

Porter: 1 year, 4 million
Tamme: 3 years, 9 million (3 guaranteed)
Dreesen: 3 years, 8.5 million (2.5 guaranteed)
Adams: 2 years, 4 million (2 guaranteed)
Caldwell: 2 years, 1.8 million
Hanie: 2 years, 2.25 million

4 of those deals are big enough to net an individual comp pick: Porter, Dreesen, Tamme and Adams.

It is a given we will get a pick for Bunkley, depending how they offset it, it could be as high as a 4th rounder (that is what Green Bay got for losing Cullen Jenkins (who got a slightly bigger deal than Bunkley and was very productive)). Royal on his own could net a 6th rounder. Of the free agents we lost it is not a given that Wilhite, Rosario and Harvey will actually make the rosters of their respective teams.

We will get offsets for signing our free agents all of whom will make the roster. My prediction right now is that we get 2 picks, it will be 4th or 5th rounder for Bunkley and a 7th for general offset.

Way too soon for this type of specualtion IMO. Having said that, the formula for receiving comp picks are vague and I wouldn't be shocked if we didn't receive any comp picks at all.

The fact that we have signed more players than we've lost actually counts against us. That is of f the factors the league uses when determining comp picks.

Broncos_OTM
05-11-2012, 04:09 AM
[QUOTE=Bmore Manning;3585759]Thank you!

And I got beat up on here for wanting Rogers as a rotational NT (His true position) over Bannan the 3/5 Tech Tweener. The Giants may know a thing or two about quality DLine personnel.[/QUOTrogers would be looked at as a possible starter in NY he's a veteran depth who most likely will be cut. and if he doesn't he won't get much time. you can quote me on that

Broncos_OTM
05-11-2012, 04:11 AM
peyslton was a free agent acquisition. k think it'll be highly unlikely that we will receive a comp pick

Bmore Manning
05-11-2012, 05:09 AM
peyslton was a free agent acquisition. k think it'll be highly unlikely that we will receive a comp pick

Peyton was a FREE AGENT, he was cut from his contract, he will not affect the compensatory process.

NY brought Rogers in to be a rotational run stuffer, he will not be cut, but he will see limited time each game. That's all I suggested of him here, a real NT over the tweener Bannan.

Broncos_OTM
05-11-2012, 05:17 AM
Peyton was a FREE AGENT, he was cut from his contract, he will not affect the compensatory process.

NY brought Rogers in to be a rotational run stuffer, he will not be cut, but he will see limited time each game. That's all I suggested of him here, a real NT over the tweener Bannan.

I meant rogers would be looked at as a starter in Denver and not NY. I think Justin was one of the biggest head scratches for me. son i would have rather had a unknown quantity in rodgers then the Justin bannan. also excuse the errors on my posting from my phone can be a bitch

DBroncos4life
05-11-2012, 05:44 AM
Rogers sucks now. I like how people are using the well the "Giants picked him up and they know a thing about DL defense". They had Jimmy Kennedy playing for them last year!!! He BLOWS!

Outside of the two starters Linval Joseph and C. Canty they have CRAP at DT. Seriously people they have 7 DTs on the roster. 4 of those 7 didn't record a tackle ever in the NFL! They have good pass rushers to make up for lack of talent at DT. I would rather have our DT's then theirs.

Bmore Manning
05-11-2012, 05:48 AM
I meant rogers would be looked at as a starter in Denver and not NY. I think Justin was one of the biggest head scratches for me. son i would have rather had a unknown quantity in rodgers then the Justin bannan. also excuse the errors on my posting from my phone can be a b****

I thought you were disagreeing with me, since I didn't make a good impression on you, but it seems as if we agree on Bannan being blah and preferring Rogers.
I do the iPhone posting myself, so I know it can be difficult at times.

Bmore Manning
05-11-2012, 05:55 AM
Rogers sucks now. I like how people are using the well the "Giants picked him up and they know a thing about DL defense". They had Jimmy Kennedy playing for them last year!!! He BLOWS!

Outside of the two starters Linval Joseph and C. Canty they have CRAP at DT. Seriously people they have 7 DTs on the roster. 4 of those 7 didn't record a tackle ever in the NFL! They have good pass rushers to make up for lack of talent at DT. I would rather have our DT's then theirs.

I take Joseph and Rogers NT and Canty and Marvin Austin UT over Bannan and Warren and Wolfe and Vickerson.

Sorry only Wolfe am I feeling from our DTs. Bannan was a 3Tech run defender last year, Fred Robbins was there NT. Warren is unknown what he performs like.
While I like VonDoom, it's not Osi, Tuck, Pierre Paul, Kiwi..
Rogers was still solid against the run, he offers 0 pass rush, but he's a real NT unlike Bannan. You can defend Bannan but he's a better 5Tech DE than anything.

DBroncos4life
05-11-2012, 06:05 AM
I take Joseph and Rogers NT and Canty and Marvin Austin UT over Bannan and Warren and Wolfe and Vickerson.

Sorry only Wolfe am I feeling from our DTs. Bannan was a 3Tech run defender last year, Fred Robbins was there NT. Warren is unknown what he performs like.
While I like VonDoom, it's not Osi, Tuck, Pierre Paul, Kiwi..
Rogers was still solid against the run, he offers 0 pass rush, but he's a real NT unlike Bannan. You can defend Bannan but he's a better 5Tech DE than anything.

Rogers was so solid vs the run the Saints gave up 5 yards per carry. LOL Chris Canty is the only DT on that roster I would have to have from them that is only because he is healthier then Warren. If Warren is healthy he is every bit as talented as Canty and that is a fact. I think people forget just how good Warren is.

Bronco Rob
05-11-2012, 07:28 AM
Still think we should of snagged Paul Solai.

Bmore Manning
05-11-2012, 07:56 AM
Rogers was so solid vs the run the Saints gave up 5 yards per carry. LOL Chris Canty is the only DT on that roster I would have to have from them that is only because he is healthier then Warren. If Warren is healthy he is every bit as talented as Canty and that is a fact. I think people forget just how good Warren is.

Hey bro, you need to watch games of the Saints to know that they ran to the outside on many attempts, and that outside of Vilma their LBs were very weak. Rogers still gets the job done. Rogers is a NT, Bannan played 5Tech in the 3-4 and 3Tech in the 4-3, again Robbins was the NT. You look like a huge homer if you think Bannan played better last year on the 31st ranked run D. And guess what, the Saints weren't last!

LMAO

DBroncos4life
05-11-2012, 08:40 AM
Hey bro, you need to watch games of the Saints to know that they ran to the outside on many attempts, and that outside of Vilma their LBs were very weak. Rogers still gets the job done. Rogers is a NT, Bannan played 5Tech in the 3-4 and 3Tech in the 4-3, again Robbins was the NT. You look like a huge homer if you think Bannan played better last year on the 31st ranked run D. And guess what, the Saints weren't last!

LMAO

This **** again? The Saints D played with the lead more the the Rams by a wide margin. The fact that the Saints D gave up almost 110 yards per game on 21 rushing attempts per game is all you need right there.

Bmore Manning
05-11-2012, 08:59 AM
This **** again? The Saints D played with the lead more the the Rams by a wide margin. The fact that the Saints D gave up almost 110 yards per game on 21 rushing attempts per game is all you need right there.

If the Saints played with the lead more, opposing teams would run less. Where teams beating up on the Rams, ran to kill the clock.

DBroncos4life
05-11-2012, 09:00 AM
In fact the Saints D had the NFL low in rushing attempts per game and gave up the second most rushes per attempt. What a great wall of turds they had. No wonder they let old Mr Rogers.

DBroncos4life
05-11-2012, 09:02 AM
If the Saints played with the lead more, opposing teams would run less. Where teams beating up on the Rams, ran to kill the clock.

No **** that is why the Rams rush D looked worse dude.

Bmore Manning
05-11-2012, 09:25 AM
No **** that is why the Rams rush D looked worse dude.

That's why Rogers didn't see the field as much! Bottom line is Bannan is best suited to be a run down 3Tech, and there are and were much better NT options out there.

DBroncos4life
05-11-2012, 09:30 AM
That's why Rogers didn't see the field as much! Bottom line is Bannan is best suited to be a run down 3Tech, and there are and were much better NT options out there.

Other then he sucks and is 400 pounds he would be a great fit for playing in mile high with no air. Toss in our no huddle O he would be as utterly useless as a used condom.

Bmore Manning
05-11-2012, 09:51 AM
Other then he sucks and is 400 pounds he would be a great fit for playing in mile high with no air. Toss in our no huddle O he would be as utterly useless as a used condom.

What? He would be a rotational run defender as Bannan will be, no huddle offense has no bearing on RUN D from the same team! Dude just drop it. I want Denver to win, I'll cheer for Bannan, but I'm not impressed with him as more than a run down 3Tech.

DBroncos4life
05-11-2012, 10:02 AM
What? He would be a rotational run defender as Bannan will be, no huddle offense has no bearing on RUN D from the same team! Dude just drop it. I want Denver to win, I'll cheer for Bannan, but I'm not impressed with him as more than a run down 3Tech.

Really us scoring faster has no bearing on the condition of our D? Tubbs isn't built for fast pace no air teams. He was worthless with a fast pace dome team last year and you want to bring him here??? GTFO!!

Bmore Manning
05-11-2012, 10:07 AM
Really us scoring faster has no bearing on the condition of our D? Tubbs isn't built for fast pace no air teams. He was worthless with a fast pace dome team last year and you want to bring him here??? GTFO!!

He would not be a starter, just like Bannan won't. Situational run defender, and he is better at that than Bannan. I don't get your man crush on Bannan. I'd prefer someone better than them both. But let's stop being a homer and pretending Bannan is great.

DBroncos4life
05-11-2012, 10:13 AM
He would not be a starter, just like Bannan won't. Situational run defender, and he is better at that than Bannan. I don't get your man crush on Bannan. I'd prefer someone better than them both. But let's stop being a homer and pretending Bannan is great.

I don't get your crush for a old fat guy that will die with no oxygen. Bannan will be alive by week two in mile high that's why I prefer him.

DBroncos4life
05-11-2012, 10:16 AM
Also find one post where I said Bannan was great or more then he is! I just prefer him to a washed up turd.

Bmore Manning
05-11-2012, 10:20 AM
I don't get your crush for a old fat guy that will die with no oxygen. Bannan will be alive by week two in mile high that's why I prefer him.

I prefer neither! But why did they pursue Soliai if they don't want big fat NTs? I want the guy whos going to do a better job at being a situational run defender. Again I wanted Soliai or Red Bryant brought in first and then there were other tiers, Jones would have been a good UT with Bunk resigned just not at a huge contract price, even Sammie Hill at NT would have been solid. Rogers was just a guy I liked as a run defender only. When you miss quality starters, you have to add situational players.

TonyR
05-13-2012, 09:17 AM
Warren not happy about pay cut request (Vickerson accepted his), hasn't been around offseason conditioning and workout program the last two weeks.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20613197/kevin-vickerson-accepts-broncos-pay-cut-but-ty-warren

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/post/19028448

Pendejo
05-13-2012, 09:32 AM
Warren not happy about pay cut request (Vickerson accepted his), hasn't been around offseason conditioning and workout program the last two weeks.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20613197/kevin-vickerson-accepts-broncos-pay-cut-but-ty-warren

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/post/19028448

That is one heck of a reduction in pay. I can understand why he is reticent to accept it. He probably feels he can make more money getting cut. He hasn't played in two years, so I can clearly understand where the Donks are coming from, but I wouldn't take it either if I were Warren. Especially if my agent is in my ear telling me I'll get a better deal on the open market.

gyldenlove
05-13-2012, 10:27 AM
That is one heck of a reduction in pay. I can understand why he is reticent to accept it. He probably feels he can make more money getting cut. He hasn't played in two years, so I can clearly understand where the Donks are coming from, but I wouldn't take it either if I were Warren. Especially if my agent is in my ear telling me I'll get a better deal on the open market.

He won't get cut until the last second, his pay doesn't become guaranteed until the first week of the regular season so the Broncos could hold on to him for that long, that way other rosters would fill up.

Bmore Manning
05-13-2012, 11:07 AM
That chump should take a pay cut.

Tombstone RJ
05-13-2012, 11:10 AM
Warren not happy about pay cut request (Vickerson accepted his), hasn't been around offseason conditioning and workout program the last two weeks.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20613197/kevin-vickerson-accepts-broncos-pay-cut-but-ty-warren

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/post/19028448

Broncos need Warren and Warren knows it. This is why the Broncos should have brought in more Dline help. Warren is a huge risk because of his age and the fact that he hasn't played in 2 years. However, the Broncos front office has done little to bring in 4-3 NT depth.

Warren can legitmately tell the Broncos to eat it.

eddie mac
05-13-2012, 12:21 PM
That chump should take a pay cut.

That chump's the best DT on the roster by a mile and fans still think Elway's the personnel king.:giggle:

Here's a tip EF, if you want your potential starting DT to take a paycut get yourself some leverage better than Vickerson, Bannan and a rook and do it before the plate is empty and the draft is done.

Shananahan
05-13-2012, 01:14 PM
That chump's the best DT on the roster by a mile
Yeah, the defense wouldn't be the same without him.

Bmore Manning
05-13-2012, 02:54 PM
That chump's the best DT on the roster by a mile and fans still think Elway's the personnel king.:giggle:

Here's a tip EF, if you want your potential starting DT to take a paycut get yourself some leverage better than Vickerson, Bannan and a rook and do it before the plate is empty and the draft is done.

He "was" the best DT on the roster. He is on the wrong side of 30, hasn't played in two years. He may still be the best DT but that doesn't say much. I think because he hasn't played and there's no guarantee he will being out for a couple of seasons, he should cut his pay in half. That money can bring another DT in or a Guard like Jake Scott.

Tombstone RJ
05-13-2012, 02:59 PM
He "was" the best DT on the roster. He is on the wrong side of 30, hasn't played in two years. He may still be the best DT but that doesn't say much. I think because he hasn't played and there's no guarantee he will being out for a couple of seasons, he should cut his pay in half. That money can bring another DT in or a Guard like Jake Scott.

do yourself a favor homey and read post 74. Kthnx!

Shananahan
05-13-2012, 03:08 PM
do yourself a favor homey and read post 74. Kthnx!
You make it sound like Warren has Denver bent over a barrel.

Do you think he's going to get anywhere near what he originally signed for if they cut him? Do you think he'll get anywhere near the starting opportunity somewhere else?

I hope he takes the pay cut and maybe plays for incentives or something. I'd be shocked if he turns out to be any kind of difference-maker for the entire season, much less half of it, and if he never takes the field the worst-case scenario is we're stuck with a potentially improved version of last year's defense.

Bmore Manning
05-13-2012, 03:13 PM
You make it sound like Warren has Denver bent over a barrel.

Do you think he's going to get anywhere near what he originally signed for if they cut him? Do you think he'll get anywhere near the starting opportunity somewhere else?

I hope he takes the pay cut and maybe plays for incentives or something. I'd be shocked if he turns out to be any kind of difference-maker for the entire season, much less half of it, and if he never takes the field the worst-case scenario is we're stuck with a potentially improved version of last year's defense.

This^

Warren has no leverage. The Broncos can give Franklin or Adams a call, they can offer stout run defense and no pass rush just like Warren.

Tombstone RJ
05-13-2012, 03:27 PM
You make it sound like Warren has Denver bent over a barrel.

Do you think he's going to get anywhere near what he originally signed for if they cut him? Do you think he'll get anywhere near the starting opportunity somewhere else?

I hope he takes the pay cut and maybe plays for incentives or something. I'd be shocked if he turns out to be any kind of difference-maker for the entire season, much less half of it, and if he never takes the field the worst-case scenario is we're stuck with a potentially improved version of last year's defense.

Well I guess it's a mexican standoff then right? Right...

Tombstone RJ
05-13-2012, 03:29 PM
This^

Warren has no leverage. The Broncos can give Franklin or Adams a call, they can offer stout run defense and no pass rush just like Warren.

I guess we will see who has the leverage homey...

Shananahan
05-13-2012, 03:40 PM
Well I guess it's a mexican standoff then right? Right...
How is it a Mexican standoff? Seems to me that Warren stands to lose more than the team if he refuses to take the cut and is released.

I want him back and healthy, but I'm not going to cry about it if he plays hardball and ends up released.

Bmore Manning
05-13-2012, 04:31 PM
I guess we will see who has the leverage homey...

Im not understanding what we are waiting to see? I don't think Warrens worth 4 million this year. I'm not saying Denver will cut him, but it's not like they can't play without him, lol right?

Tombstone RJ
05-13-2012, 07:54 PM
How is it a Mexican standoff? Seems to me that Warren stands to lose more than the team if he refuses to take the cut and is released.

I want him back and healthy, but I'm not going to cry about it if he plays hardball and ends up released.

here's a little fact you may be missing: the Broncos have little to no depth along the defensive line. They have another injury prone DT in Vickerson who can't stay healthy. They drafted Wolfe, an unproven rookie. They have an UDFA as another DT. Then there's Bannan, WHOOOP-DEEE-FREAKING DOOO!!

Oh and don't forget Ben Gardner. He might be a fighter jet ace, but he's by no means a DT ace.

All I'm saying is that the Broncos dline has no depth and is woefully inexperienced.

but whatever. Keep dreaming that dream brosef, I truly hope you are right...

Tombstone RJ
05-13-2012, 07:59 PM
Im not understanding what we are waiting to see? I don't think Warrens worth 4 million this year. I'm not saying Denver will cut him, but it's not like they can't play without him, lol right?

I'm saying the Broncos have no true 4-3 NT outside of Warren and the rest of the Dline is either run of the mill journey men like Bannan and Vickerson or unproven rookies like Wolfe.

I'm not understanding what you are not understanding.

Shananahan
05-13-2012, 08:10 PM
here's a little fact you may be missing: the Broncos have little to no depth along the defensive line. They have another injury prone DT in Vickerson who can't stay healthy. They drafted Wolfe, an unproven rookie. They have an UDFA as another DT. Then there's Bannan, WHOOOP-DEEE-FREAKING DOOO!!

Oh and don't forget Ben Gardner. He might be a fighter jet ace, but he's by no means a DT ace.

All I'm saying is that the Broncos dline has no depth and is woefully inexperienced.

but whatever. Keep dreaming that dream brosef, I truly hope you are right...
All of this would actually be a reasonable argument if we were talking about a consistent, productive player who hadn't just missed the past two seasons due to major injuries and wasn't on the wrong side of his career. I want Warren on the team for all the reasons you listed, but just because they're woefully thin at the position doesn't automatically mean an old, injured and probably washed-up player becomes more valuable. And stop saying 'brosef'.

Bmore Manning
05-13-2012, 08:11 PM
I'm saying the Broncos have no true 4-3 NT outside of Warren and the rest of the Dline is either run of the mill journey men like Bannan and Vickerson or unproven rookies like Wolfe.

I'm not understanding what you are not understanding.

I have said many times in this very thread, they need more and better depth at NT. I see Wolfe as a true UT, Vick and Bannan run down three techniques, Garland may be depth at UT.. But I see two NTs Warren an old injury plagued guy and Siliga the practice squader. That's not impressive. I have said in this very thread they need more and better depth. So I'm agreeing with what you said, but let's not pretend Warren is a stud.

Shananahan
05-13-2012, 08:14 PM
Let's not even pretend he's average to above average until we see it on the field.

Tombstone RJ
05-13-2012, 08:23 PM
I guess we will just agree to disagree guys. I see Warren as having more leverage than the Broncos because the Broncos don't have a strong dline to begin with, all the best FAs are gone, and the draft is over. So basically the Broncos will have to rely on getting dline help from scrubs who have been cut or released by other teams.

Warren has a proven history of being an effective DT and the Broncos have already paid him stupid money to recover from two injuries. Now the Broncos want to tell Warren, "hey big fella, you haven't panned out as we have hoped so how about you take a whole lot less money?"

Fact is, that's not Warren's problem.

Warren knows the Broncos are between a rock and a hard place. They let Bunkley go because they didn't want to pay him. They let McBean go and they are letting Thomas go too. Basically, the Broncos have pinned their hopes one Warren and now they want Warren to take less money.

DOES-NOT-COMPUTE.

Why short change Warren now? Even if he doesn't take one snap due to injury, the Broncos have no choice but to give him the money. That's what happens when you have no depth. That's what happens when you sign no other significant FAs and don't draft any other NT dlinemen.

Warren knows this. Hence, he's got some real good leverage. Sure, the Broncos can cut him but that means--AND STAY WITH ME ON THIS ONE BECAUSE IT'S A DOOSEY--the Broncos just paid Warren a BOAT LOAD OF CASH TO DO NOTHING.

Congrats Elway. You've.been.played.

Shananahan
05-13-2012, 08:33 PM
They already paid him a bunch of cash to do nothing. Unless I missed the part where his entire contract is guaranteed, they don't have to pay him the same amount this season if they think he isn't worth it.

I'm perfectly fine with them giving him what he signed for, because they need the depth and he does have some potential upside if healthy. I can also live with them telling him that he isn't worth what he's making and releasing him if he refuses. We already saw what the defense looked like without him last year (albeit with Bunkley) and I'm skeptical of whether Warren will make much of a difference outside of being a large body. I hope I'm wrong.

Nwp-Apap
05-13-2012, 10:51 PM
That chump's the best DT on the roster by a mile and fans still think Elway's the personnel king.:giggle:

Here's a tip EF, if you want your potential starting DT to take a paycut get yourself some leverage better than Vickerson, Bannan and a rook and do it before the plate is empty and the draft is done.

Are you joking? He's arguably the worst defensive player on the roster. Did you watch him at all last preseason/training camp before he suffered his second consequtive season ending injury? He hasn't played at an above average level in 6 years. He is done. He was done last year.

bowtown
05-13-2012, 10:52 PM
I feel for the guy. His couch must have some tremendous sag. Those aren't cheap.

eddie mac
05-13-2012, 11:54 PM
Are you joking? He's arguably the worst defensive player on the roster. Did you watch him at all last preseason/training camp before he suffered his second consequtive season ending injury? He hasn't played at an above average level in 6 years. He is done. He was done last year.

All of the DT's combined are the worst players on the defensive roster so the point above is mute.

Furthermore if he's so **** as you say why's he still a Bronco mid May and one of the reasons given by Elway when Bunkley signed elsewhere as to "We're okay at the DT position cos we've got Ty coming back".

Shananahan
05-14-2012, 12:50 AM
That chump's the best DT on the roster by a mile
He's arguably the worst defensive player on the roster.
Well, at least we've identified the spectrum of his talent.

Shananahan
05-14-2012, 12:52 AM
All of the DT's combined are the worst players on the defensive roster so the point above is mute.
So he's the best of the worst and you're crying about Elway's lack of leverage?

Relax, dude.

eddie mac
05-14-2012, 02:46 AM
So he's the best of the worst and you're crying about Elway's lack of leverage?

Relax, dude.

I'm perfectly relaxed and certainly not crying. Just making the NFL wide viewpoint that the Broncos dropped a bollock at DT once again after actually producing a half decent performance from one in 2011.

Bronco Rob
05-14-2012, 07:06 AM
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2012/05/13/vickerson-accepts-warren-balks-pay-cut/13434/





???

Beantown Bronco
05-14-2012, 07:10 AM
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2012/05/13/vickerson-accepts-warren-balks-pay-cut/13434/





???

I'm on record as having hated this signing from day one. Warren is a waste of roster and cap space.

I wanted them to cut him before this contract bs. Now? It just makes the decision all too easy IMO. I'm shocked that it hasn't already happened.

Bmore Manning
05-14-2012, 07:39 AM
I would take Jake Scott G and Anthony Adams NT for a 4 million dollar cap hit or slightly over that than just Warrens 4 million dollar hit. It's not like Warren is some NT who commands a double team, while splitting it for sacks, wreaking havoc against the run, and constantly pushing the pocket. I think Adams or Franklin could be compitent space eaters.

DBroncos4life
05-14-2012, 08:30 AM
I would take Jake Scott G and Anthony Adams NT for a 4 million dollar cap hit or slightly over that than just Warrens 4 million dollar hit. It's not like Warren is some NT who commands a double team, while splitting it for sacks, wreaking havoc against the run, and constantly pushing the pocket. I think Adams or Franklin could be compitent space eaters.

You want to give two mill a year to a back up OG and a DT coming off a 16 tackle season? Yeah that will make us a better team. Hilarious! In no way is Adams anywhere near as talented as Warren.

Drunken.Broncoholic
05-14-2012, 08:30 AM
Ty warren refusing to take a pay cut after not even playing for 2 years. Some people are upset with Warren. I'm not. I'm upset with the person who gave him that contract. The day it was signed I said he wouldnt play. He will get hurt yet again

pricejj
05-14-2012, 08:35 AM
I honestly wouldn't screw with Warren too much. The Broncos are still $23M under the cap. Joe Mays is making $4M for god sakes. $4M for a starting DT is not a bad deal...if he performs.

Rabb
05-14-2012, 08:35 AM
I honestly wouldn't screw with Warren too much. The Broncos are still $23M under the cap. Joe Mays is making $4M for god sakes. $4M for a starting DT is not a bad deal...if he performs.

He hasn't started or performed for us yet, no way he needs $4 Million

CEH
05-14-2012, 08:40 AM
I honestly wouldn't screw with Warren too much. The Broncos are still $23M under the cap. Joe Mays is making $4M for god sakes. $4M for a starting DT is not a bad deal...if he performs.

Starting DTs make $4MM a year. He was going to start last year before the injury. This year he may or may not start and be a rotational player.

Same thing with Vickerson

Tombstone RJ
05-14-2012, 08:41 AM
knowing the Broncos and their stoooooopid history with dlineman, they will refuse to pay Warren, he will get released, sign with another team and play a full season.

Broncos will be out $4m for helping Warren rehab. Nice.

DBroncos4life
05-14-2012, 08:43 AM
knowing the Broncos and their stoooooopid history with dlineman, they will refuse to pay Warren, he will get released, sign with another team and play a full season.

Broncos will be out $4m for helping Warren rehab. Nice.

Trevor Pryce still haunts us.

pricejj
05-14-2012, 08:50 AM
He hasn't started or performed for us yet, no way he needs $4 Million

It's the Broncos contract. Their fault for signing him for so much. It's not like we are up against the cap, so who cares. $4M is cheap if Warren has a good year. No reason to unecessarily nickle and dime...we are hoping to play in the SB this year.

Starting DTs make $4MM a year. He was going to start last year before the injury. This year he may or may not start and be a rotational player.

Same thing with Vickerson

Vickerson is a super-crappy back-up NT, who has 91 tackles, and 3.5 sacks in 7 years. Warren has 373 tackles, and 20.5 sacks in 7 years, and was an All-Pro before being injured.

Please do not compare both players ever again. If Warren is healthy, he will start, and is worth every bit of $4M. If the Broncos don't think he is healthy, then he shouldn't be on the team.

Bmore Manning
05-14-2012, 09:00 AM
You want to give two mill a year to a back up OG and a DT coming off a 16 tackle season? Yeah that will make us a better team. Hilarious! In no way is Adams anywhere near as talented as Warren.

Your out of your mind. Scott graded out as the fourth best guard in the NFL in pass protection. He would start at LG. Adams has been one of the better 4-3 NTs in the NFL for Chicago. Because of the big names on the team he gets less credit. They were looking to get younger on the DLine, hence the cut, and it saved them some cap space.
His 16 tackles is more than Warrens in the last two years combined. I'm not sure why you think Warren is some stud that can't be replaced.

DBroncos4life
05-14-2012, 09:04 AM
Your out of your mind. Scott graded out as the fourth best guard in the NFL in pass protection. He would start at LG. Adams has been one of the better 4-3 NTs in the NFL for Chicago. Because of the big names on the team he gets less credit. They were looking to get younger on the DLine, hence the cut, and it saved them some cap space.
His 16 tackles is more than Warrens in the last two years combined. I'm not sure why you think Warren is some stud that can't be replaced.

Yes only the best of the best are currently FA's right now. :giggle: Adams play has declined the last two years hence why he was cut. Warren if healthy is twice the player then Adams.

Rabb
05-14-2012, 09:10 AM
knowing the Broncos and their stoooooopid history with dlineman, they will refuse to pay Warren, he will get released, sign with another team and play a full season.

Broncos will be out $4m for helping Warren rehab. Nice.

Or conversely we pay him, he sticks to recent trends and we waste $4m...I mean I am with you in that I want the guy to be healthy and play, don't get me wrong.

I just don't see how any NFL team could justify him wanting starting money when he hasn't started in 2 years.

Bmore Manning
05-14-2012, 09:11 AM
It's the Broncos contract. Their fault for signing him for so much. It's not like we are up against the cap, so who cares. $4M is cheap if Warren has a good year. No reason to unecessarily nickle and dime...we are hoping to play in the SB this year.



Vickerson is a super-crappy back-up NT, who has 91 tackles, and 3.5 sacks in 7 years. Warren has 373 tackles, and 20.5 sacks in 7 years, who was an All-Pro before being injured.

Please do not compare both players ever again. If Warren is healthy, he is worth every bit of $4M. If the Broncos don't think he is healthy, then he shouldn't be on the team.

Price he was comparing them in that Vick was asked to take a pay cut for a reason. He is saying the same can be said for Warren. He may be asked to do rotational work. You don't pay someone for what they did, you pay them for what they are going to do. $4 million for a rotational run defender who hasn't sniffed the field in two years, and probably won't regain his old form being on the wrong side of 30, and his recent injury history.

How about we go out and sign Bob Sanders. When healthy, he's a force at SS. We can give him a three year 12 million dollar contract because he used to be a force and we have plenty of cap room. But oh wait, he's gonna tear his shoulder out in week one, since he violently throws his body out.

You pay for what people are going to do, not what they have done in years past. Sure you can argue you blend the two, but it still doesn't justify paying Warren four million this year, when the odds are against him being what he once was.

pricejj
05-14-2012, 09:29 AM
Price he was comparing them in that Vick was asked to take a pay cut for a reason.

The reason Vickerson had to take a pay cut, is because he was making starter money. Even Vickerson, by now, realizes that he will never start in the NFL.


He is saying the same can be said for Warren. He may be asked to do rotational work. You don't pay someone for what they did, you pay them for what they are going to do. $4 million for a rotational run defender who hasn't sniffed the field in two years, and probably won't regain his old form being on the wrong side of 30, and his recent injury history.

Warren will be a starting NT, or will be cut. The Broncos did not sign him for starter money to be backup. There is a good chance Warren will even play 3rd down this year (unlike Bunkley, who was only a 2 down NT). Bannan is making $1M, and is the backup NT.

How about we go out and sign Bob Sanders. When healthy, he's a force at SS. We can give him a three year 12 million dollar contract because he used to be a force and we have plenty of cap room. But oh wait, he's gonna tear his shoulder out in week one, since he violently throws his body out.

Oh, hell no. The Chargers tried that last year, and the grand experiment lasted 2 months, ending due to swelling on a knee that he injured previously.

You pay for what people are going to do, not what they have done in years past. Sure you can argue you blend the two, but it still doesn't justify paying Warren four million this year, when the odds are against him being what he once was.

You need to remember that Warren is recovering from a partially torn triceps. Alfred Williams played a majority of the 1997 Super Bowl season with the same injury, finishing with 8.5 sacks.

IF Warren is healthy, it would be a good idea to let him play out his contract. The risk reward is too great. The Broncos would take a cap hit by cutting him anyway.

Beantown Bronco
05-14-2012, 09:30 AM
It's the Broncos contract. Their fault for signing him for so much. It's not like we are up against the cap, so who cares. $4M is cheap if Warren has a good year. No reason to unecessarily nickle and dime...

Which leads me to believe that we are looking at acquiring a few more guys either through trades or FA who will be more than just depth signings. If we really do still have a decent amount of cap room, that's the only real explanation I could come up with aside from the "Bowlen is cheap" argument. I'm guessing we need this room for some move or move(s) they're working on behind the scenes.

BroncoBen
05-14-2012, 09:32 AM
Ty warren refusing to take a pay cut after not even playing for 2 years. Some people are upset with Warren. I'm not. I'm upset with the person who gave him that contract. The day it was signed I said he wouldnt play. He will get hurt yet again

I guess my problem with Ty Warren is that he knows that the going market for a player the other side of 30 and coming off injury is $1-1.5 million.. he knows he is not going to make $4 million anywhere else.

DENVERDUI55
05-14-2012, 09:37 AM
We just need a big fat slob in the middle to road grade and take up space. If we give up running yardage just make it on the edge and not up the middle of the D.

Bmore Manning
05-14-2012, 09:38 AM
Yes only the best of the best are currently FA's right now. :giggle: Adams play has declined the last two years hence why he was cut. Warren if healthy is twice the player then Adams.

Your delusional if you think Warren is twice the player Adams is. Adams time has been slowly taken away from him due to injuries and the emergence of Melton and the drafting of Paea. He was ranked as the best Bears DT against the run. As I said, they had two younger and cheaper options at DT going forward, hence the move. But Adams is still good against the run.

pricejj
05-14-2012, 09:40 AM
Which leads me to believe that we are looking at acquiring a few more guys either through trades or FA who will be more than just depth signings. If we really do still have a decent amount of cap room, that's the only real explanation I could come up with aside from the "Bowlen is cheap" argument. I'm guessing we need this room for some move or move(s) they're working on behind the scenes.

That would be nice, but I doubt it.

The Broncos have consistently tried to stay under the "true cap" of $120.6M the entire offseason. Elway said they are operating on a $120M "cash budget". Right now they are about $2M over.

While they may make some moves after June 1st (veteran cuts), any moves would be offset by another cut. The Vickerson restructure is old news. He was asked to take a paycut over a month ago.

Bmore Manning
05-14-2012, 09:41 AM
The reason Vickerson had to take a pay cut, is because he was making starter money. Even Vickerson, by now, realizes that he will never start in the NFL.




Warren will be a starting NT, or will be cut. The Broncos did not sign him for starter money to be backup. There is a good chance Warren will even play 3rd down this year (unlike Bunkley, who was only a 2 down NT). Bannan is making $1M, and is the backup NT.



Oh, hell no. The Chargers tried that last year, and the grand experiment lasted 2 months, ending due to swelling on a knee that he injured previously.



You need to remember that Warren is recovering from a partially torn triceps. Alfred Williams played a majority of the 1997 Super Bowl season with the same injury, finishing with 8.5 sacks.

IF Warren is healthy, it would be a good idea to let him play out his contract. The risk reward is too great. The Broncos would take a cap hit by cutting him anyway.

Price you just gave a long response in which you restated what I said, and took my bob sanders request as serious.

DENVERDUI55
05-14-2012, 09:41 AM
Warren is getting 8 mil this year because we paid him last year to not play a down. I don't expect much from him really. He will be slightly better than average but overpaid for his production and he is long in the tooth with laundry list of injuries.

pricejj
05-14-2012, 09:53 AM
Price you just gave a long response in which you restated what I said, and took my bob sanders request as serious.

I think Warren could easily get 50 tackles, and 4 sacks this year, while serving as a great teacher to Wolfe, on our way to a Super Bowl victory. There is a reason Elway signed Warren to significant coin.

Anthony Adams? Not so much. Adams would back-up Bannan if Warren was cut, and would struggle to make the roster.

Bmore Manning
05-14-2012, 09:57 AM
I think Warren could easily get 50 tackles, and 4 sacks this year, while serving as a great teacher to Wolfe, on our way to a Super Bowl victory.

Anthony Adams? Not so much. Adams would back-up Bannan, and would struggle to make the roster.

So Warren is going to occupy double teams and be an impact NT while managing 50 tackles and 4 sacks... Usually good NTs don't have great stat lines. And that would be quality from Warren, but I won't hold my breath.

Shananahan
05-14-2012, 10:02 AM
There is a good chance Warren will even play 3rd down this year
Nah.

DENVERDUI55
05-14-2012, 10:03 AM
So Warren is going to occupy double teams and be an impact NT while managing 50 tackles and 4 sacks... Usually good NTs don't have great stat lines. And that would be quality from Warren, but I won't hold my breath.

I'll be happy to get 16 plus the playoff games out of this guy and the rest would be a bonus. He hasn't played a full season since 2007 and been banged up past two years.

Bmore Manning
05-14-2012, 10:03 AM
Which leads me to believe that we are looking at acquiring a few more guys either through trades or FA who will be more than just depth signings. If we really do still have a decent amount of cap room, that's the only real explanation I could come up with aside from the "Bowlen is cheap" argument. I'm guessing we need this room for some move or move(s) they're working on behind the scenes.

I hope this is the case.

pricejj
05-14-2012, 10:05 AM
Nah.

Oh, you're right. Ayers would play DT, not Warren...my bad.

LDE: Miller
NT: Ayers
UT: Wolfe
RDE: Dumervil

Bmore Manning
05-14-2012, 10:08 AM
I'll be happy to get 16 plus the playoff games out of this guy and the rest would be a bonus. He hasn't played a full season since 2007 and been banged up past two years.

Yeah exactly. I don't think we are against him being on the team, but if he can help the team by cutting some of that salary I think he needs to do so. I don't think he would see anything over three million on the open market.

Bmore Manning
05-14-2012, 10:09 AM
Oh, you're right. Ayers would play DT, not Warren...my bad.

LDE: Miller
NT: Ayers
UT: Wolfe
RDE: Dumervil

That's what I have nicknamed the "Juice" Package!

DBroncos4life
05-14-2012, 10:11 AM
Yeah exactly. I don't think we are against him being on the team, but if he can help the team by cutting some of that salary I think he needs to do so. I don't think he would see anything over three million on the open market.

What is cutting his salary going to do for us?

Bmore Manning
05-14-2012, 10:16 AM
What is cutting his salary going to do for us?

Hopefully it would allow an additional piece(s) to be added to Bolster the roster. I can't fathom why else they would ask him to take a pay cut and risk the outcomes unless they have other ideas in mind.

pricejj
05-14-2012, 10:19 AM
So Warren is going to occupy double teams and be an impact NT while managing 50 tackles and 4 sacks... Usually good NTs don't have great stat lines. And that would be quality from Warren, but I won't hold my breath.

Terrance Knighton 2010 (as a 2nd year player): 34 tackles, 4 sacks
John Henderson (average over 8 year career in Jville): 53 tackles, 3.6 sacks

Granted those guys were bigger than Warren, but Warren has a track record of good production in a 3 man line. No reason he couldn't have good production for 1 year in a 4 man Defensive Line. I really don't think there is anything better available. 6'7" 335 lb. NT's don't just grow on trees.

Beantown Bronco
05-14-2012, 10:21 AM
6'7" 335 lb. NT's don't just grow on trees.

Weird. My racist grandfather told me that that's exactly where they grow.

Bmore Manning
05-14-2012, 10:21 AM
Terrance Knighton 2010 (as a 2nd year player): 34 tackles, 4 sacks
John Henderson (average over 8 year career in Jville): 53 tackles, 3.6 sacks

Granted those guys were bigger than Warren, but Warren has a track record of good production in a 3 man line. No reason he couldn't have good production for 1 year in a 4 man Defensive Line. I really don't think there is anything better available.

Didn't Warren play DE in the 3-4? The roles in a 3-4 are much different than a 4-3. I wouldn't assume he can have nearly the same success, 1 in a new scheme, 2 at his given age and with his injury history and 3 he hasn't played in several years..

eddie mac
05-14-2012, 10:24 AM
Oh, you're right. Ayers would play DT, not Warren...my bad.

LDE: Miller
NT: Ayers
UT: Wolfe
RDE: Dumervil

WTF kind of line up is that.:giggle:

Nevermind the fact Ayers could never play the Nose you'd be left with 2 ****s and a fart at LB.

eddie mac
05-14-2012, 10:29 AM
Regardless of whether anyone on the board rates Warren, the Broncos organisation saw enough last offseason to keep his ass on the roster for this year after the season ending injury and guaranteed his full 2011 paycheck even though the injury was well before the cut-off point trigger which is week 1 of the regular season.

It would be interesting to establish whether the Broncos approached Warren prior to the 2 week voluntary workouts and is that the main reason why he's stayed away???

Either way were damned if we do and damned if we dont because I just see backs toting up the yards against that line this year especially if McFadden and Charles recover any sort of fitness. We all better hope Manning plays well and can put opposition running out of their gameplans.

TonyR
05-14-2012, 10:29 AM
What is cutting his salary going to do for us?

Well, if nothing else, it might be the difference between him being on the team and not being on the team.

pricejj
05-14-2012, 10:34 AM
Didn't Warren play DE in the 3-4? The roles in a 3-4 are much different than a 4-3. I wouldn't assume he can have nearly the same success, 1 in a new scheme, 2 at his given age and with his injury history and 3 he hasn't played in several years..

All valid questions...that we're also being asked last August when he was signed. The Broncos projected him to be that guy, otherwise they wouldn't have signed him.

Up until now, signing FA DT's in Denver is like offering Mexican migrant workers 50 cents/hour to harvest snow cones in Antarctica. Good luck with that.

If Manning stays healthy, next offseason, that should change dramatically. There is no reason to sign sucky FA's to multi-year contracts now. Ron Brace (and others) will be available in FA next year.

DBroncos4life
05-14-2012, 10:37 AM
All valid questions...that we're also being asked last August when he was signed. The Broncos projected him to be that guy, otherwise they wouldn't have signed him.

Up until now, signing FA DT's in Denver is like offering Mexican migrant workers 50 cents/hour to harvest snow cones in Antarctica. Good luck with that.

If Manning stays healthy, next offseason, that should change dramatically. There is no reason to bring up sucky FA's now and sign them to multi-year contracts. Ron Brace (and others) will be available in FA next year.

According to profootball focus Warren 5 tech DE in the 3-4.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/08/12/defensive-line-techniques-the-prototypes/

pricejj
05-14-2012, 10:40 AM
WTF kind of line up is that.:giggle:

Nevermind the fact Ayers could never play the Nose you'd be left with 2 ****s and a fart at LB.

Minus Wolfe, it's the same 3rd down line we had last year. How do you think we ended up 10th in the NFL in sacks?

The Nickel LB's will be the same as last year...D.J. and Woodyard...we're you watching?

pricejj
05-14-2012, 10:46 AM
According to profootball focus Warren 5 tech DE in the 3-4.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/08/12/defensive-line-techniques-the-prototypes/

Well that's pretty funny, because the Broncos don't play a 3-4. So unless Del Rio plans on switching (which has hitherto been unmentioned), Warren will be playing 3-tech (UT) or 1-tech (NT) in Del Rio's 4-3. I prefer to see him at NT, with Wolfe starting at UT.

The pff blog is from 8/2011, and lists Warren as the "best run-stuffing 5-tech in the NFL"...from the Patriots.

Even more reason to shut-up and pay Warren $4M to play NT.

Bmore Manning
05-14-2012, 10:50 AM
Well that's pretty funny, because the Broncos don't play a 3-4. So unless Del Rio plans on switching (which has hitherto been unmentioned), Warren will be playing 3-tech (UT) or 1-tech (NT) in Del Rio's 4-3. I prefer to see him at NT, with Wolfe starting at UT.

The pff blog is from 8/2011.

That's what he played in NE, it doesn't mean that he can't play in other schemes. But usually 3-4 DEs play UT in a 4-3 not NT.

eddie mac
05-14-2012, 10:51 AM
Minus Wolfe, it's the same 3rd down line we had last year. How do you think we ended up 10th in the NFL in sacks?

The Nickel LB's will be the same as last year...D.J. and Woodyard...we're you watching?

What about the other 2 downs, 1st and 2nd??? Maybe the opposition wont need 3rd down too much given what we'll be clogging the middle with.

pricejj
05-14-2012, 10:54 AM
That's what he played in NE, it doesn't mean that he can't play in other schemes. But usually 3-4 DEs play UT in a 4-3 not NT.

Warren doesn't have enough sack production to be a good 4-3 UT, but he does offer some pass-rush ability, and is a solid run-stuffer. Wolfe is the UT. Planning on Warren to be the primary pass-rusher in the middle of the line this year, would be epic fail.

What about the other 2 downs, 1st and 2nd??? Maybe the opposition wont need 3rd down too much given what we'll be clogging the middle with.

4-3 Base:
LDE: Ayers
NT: Warren
UT: Wolfe
RDE: Dumervil

Hopefully Warren can be just as effective as Bunkley stopping the run, while adding pressure (that Bunkley lacked) in the passing game.

Bmore Manning
05-14-2012, 11:03 AM
Price I am giving you an example of what most 5Techs transition to in a 4-3 scheme, not that there aren't exceptions. And I never said Warren as a 3Tech pass rusher, not sure where that came from. I like Wolfe as the 3Tech pass rusher.

Pat Bowlen
05-14-2012, 11:12 AM
What is cutting his salary going to do for us?
I'm out of Dalmore '62.

DBroncos4life
05-14-2012, 11:16 AM
I'm out of Dalmore '62.

Try cheaper booze and better DTs. Then after we win a few SBs you will be rich again.

eddie mac
05-14-2012, 12:13 PM
I'm out of Dalmore '62.

Stop drinking that **** for a start. I'll send you 2 crates of this every year (cousin works there). If you promise to actually pay market value for a DT sometime soon.

http://0.tqn.com/d/cocktails/1/0/o/7/-/-/bushmills_portfolio.jpg

Drek
05-14-2012, 01:07 PM
What about the other 2 downs, 1st and 2nd??? Maybe the opposition wont need 3rd down too much given what we'll be clogging the middle with.

My forecast for the DL is for the following:

NT - Warren as the starter, Bannan as the backup who rotates in for a lot of snaps.

UT - Vickerson with Wolfe as the backup who teams with Vickerson or Ayers inside on many passing downs.

Warren gets hurt before camp is even over so we wind up with Bannan as the starter and Siliga playing real minutes all season. This will push even more 2nd and long downs to feature the Vickerson/Wolfe tandem.

RDE - Doom starts, Hunter is technically the backup, Malik Jackson takes a ok number of snaps here though spelling Doom on obvious rushing downs.

LDE - Ayers is the starter, Jackson is his backup. If healthy he'll play the most snaps of any DL we have.

On obvious passing downs we'll bump Ayers in with Wolfe and let Miller line up as a DE on occasion, though I wouldn't be surprised if we spend more time this year with Ayers staying at DE and just blitzing Miller from one of the two LB spots for a five man rush.

Better all pray that Nate Irving puts it together early in camp and displays some real coverage chops, because right now asking Woodyard or Mays to play any kind of coverage is no fun.

Heyneck
05-14-2012, 01:21 PM
WTF kind of line up is that.:giggle:

Nevermind the fact Ayers could never play the Nose you'd be left with 2 ****s and a fart at LB.

If you pay attention to our games you would realize that Ayers kicks in at NT on most obvious passing downs.

Beantown Bronco
05-14-2012, 01:23 PM
If you pay attention to our games you would realize that Ayers kicks in at NT on most obvious passing downs.

I personally prefer guys like Ian Gold at NT instead.

R-Mac
05-14-2012, 02:08 PM
The situation at DT became so sad that Wayne Nunnely decided to retire.

gyldenlove
05-14-2012, 02:08 PM
Stop drinking that **** for a start. I'll send you 2 crates of this every year (cousin works there). If you promise to actually pay market value for a DT sometime soon.

http://0.tqn.com/d/cocktails/1/0/o/7/-/-/bushmills_portfolio.jpg

God gave Whiskey to man so that he might remove the foul taste of water, god gave Whiskey to the Irish so that they would not conquer the world.

Mogulseeker
05-14-2012, 02:32 PM
Oh, you're right. Ayers would play DT, not Warren...my bad.

LDE: Miller
NT: Ayers
UT: Wolfe
RDE: Dumervil

That's a pretty formidable dime front.

Cito Pelon
05-14-2012, 03:25 PM
Friggin Warren. I hope the staff isn't counting on this guy as the future.

pricejj
05-14-2012, 03:34 PM
Friggin Warren. I hope the staff isn't counting on this guy as the future.

The future? As long as he can stay healthy until next February, we should be fine.

pricejj
05-14-2012, 03:37 PM
That's a pretty formidable dime front.

All we need is a few more sacks out of Ayers, and 5 or 6 from Wolfe to be one of the elite pass-rush fronts in the NFL.

Mogulseeker
05-14-2012, 03:45 PM
All we need is a few more sacks out of Ayers, and 5 or 6 from Wolfe to be one of the elite pass-rush fronts in the NFL.

5-6 out of Wolfe is a bitt too much to expect, imo.

Ayers is a decent rusher... he'd have more sacks, but Doom and Von tend to get there first.

We already have an elite pass rush.

Cito Pelon
05-14-2012, 04:01 PM
5-6 out of Wolfe is a bitt too much to expect, imo.

Ayers is a decent rusher... he'd have more sacks, but Doom and Von tend to get there first.

We already have an elite pass rush.

The passrush isn't all that of a big deal, and Wolfe hopefully upgrades that, it's the back end of the D. IMO, I think there's still some upgtrades to be done with the back 7. Find some LB's and S's that can get INT's for the sake of god.

pricejj
05-14-2012, 04:01 PM
5-6 out of Wolfe is a bitt too much to expect, imo.

Ayers is a decent rusher... he'd have more sacks, but Doom and Von tend to get there first.

We already have an elite pass rush.

Right now we are tied for 10th in the NFL in sacks in 2011 ...a year in which Miller was hurt, and Dumervil was coming off of injury. Ayers started to come into his own at the end of last year. I expect Wolfe to produce big time. If we can improve from 41 sacks (2011) to 48 sacks (Giants total from 2011)...then we'll be elite.

Drunken.Broncoholic
05-14-2012, 04:05 PM
Right now we are tied for 10th in the NFL in sacks in 2011 ...a year in which Miller was hurt, and Dumervil was coming off of injury. Ayers started to come into his own at the end of last year. I expect Wolfe to produce big time. If we can improve from 41 sacks (2011) to 48 sacks (Giants total from 2011)...then we'll be elite.

The Ayers sack on Big Ben in the playoffs was priceless. He just bulldozed right into Ben.

Bronco Rob
05-14-2012, 04:29 PM
We spent 13 million on Mays and who's going to keep the blockers off him so he can 'allegedly' in Del Rio's system?

Look at every great MLB in the league...

Then look at who lines up in front of him....



Just sayin'

Bronco Rob
05-14-2012, 04:36 PM
The situation at DT became so sad that Wayne Nunnely decided to retire.



QFT!


:thumbs:

RaiderH8r
05-14-2012, 04:47 PM
Regardless of whether anyone on the board rates Warren, the Broncos organisation saw enough last offseason to keep his ass on the roster for this year after the season ending injury and guaranteed his full 2011 paycheck even though the injury was well before the cut-off point trigger which is week 1 of the regular season.

It would be interesting to establish whether the Broncos approached Warren prior to the 2 week voluntary workouts and is that the main reason why he's stayed away???

Either way were damned if we do and damned if we dont because I just see backs toting up the yards against that line this year especially if McFadden and Charles recover any sort of fitness. We all better hope Manning plays well and can put opposition running out of their gameplans.

Exactly. And what's the best D against Manning? Pounding the rock and keeping PM on the sideline. Glad we hae done nothing to upgrade our interior.

NorCalBronco7
05-14-2012, 04:52 PM
Ive always believed that because the Broncos play in such high altitude, the dts will always be heavy on rotations.

Also, everyones thinks Wolfe is an UT (and I agree hes probably best there), but I dont see why he wont play nose from time to time.

oubronco
05-14-2012, 05:31 PM
They could've fixed this problem last year but instead they bargain shopped and look at what they have now

eddie mac
05-14-2012, 06:27 PM
They could've fixed this problem last year but instead they bargain shopped and look at what they have now

They gave it a temp fix with Bunkley but instead of adding to him, they subracted him. Someone at Dove Valley obviously was **** at Mathematics.

Bmore Manning
05-14-2012, 06:32 PM
NT is typically an easy position to put body's, especially in the 4-3. What's difficult to replace and find is a NT who's not only stout against the run, but offers a pass rush. There are NT types who are solid against the run still out there. Franklin, Adams, Colin Cole but he missed last year. There are some options out there.

I think that if they asked Warren to take a pay cut, that there is a good possibility they are making cap room to pursue someone, whether that's a free agent or someone through a trade. Maybe Sammie Hill can be had reasonably, Detroit has many DT options.

Lestat
05-14-2012, 07:28 PM
yeah this is not a smart move by either party. Warren hasn't played but the Broncos signed him knowing his most recent history and you don't have anyone who can replace him(or at least no one the fans will buy as replacing his potential production)

baja
05-14-2012, 07:39 PM
yeah this is not a smart move by either party. Warren hasn't played but the Broncos signed him knowing his most recent history and you don't have anyone who can replace him(or at least no one the fans will buy as replacing his potential production)

They can probably find someone for 4 mil., someone that has played the last two years too.

Requiem
05-14-2012, 07:39 PM
Another DT early next year. There are some gems next year. PLEASE GET ONE PLEASE.

barryr
05-14-2012, 07:44 PM
I wasn't expecting much from Warren anyway. I would be surprised if he can play 16 games anymore.

Lestat
05-14-2012, 07:56 PM
They can probably find someone for 4 mil., someone that has played the last two years too.

too late for that unless it's via trade. unless you deal for Osi and move Ayers to DT there isn't much left out there DT wise, Hill from Det maybe but i don't think he's a long term solution at DT for us.

Bmore Manning
05-14-2012, 08:19 PM
too late for that unless it's via trade. unless you deal for Osi and move Ayers to DT there isn't much left out there DT wise, Hill from Det maybe but i don't think he's a long term solution at DT for us.

I think he could be. He's young, but has been acclimated to the NFL. He hasn't had an abundance of chances, because of who is in front of him in Detroit, Suh, Fairley, and then NT Corey Williams. Hill is similar to Williams, but not quiet as stout as Williams against the run, but he offers a pass rush. He has potential, with all of Detroits DT options, they may let him go for one of our young CBs like Vaughn or Thompson..

baja
05-14-2012, 08:20 PM
too late for that unless it's via trade. unless you deal for Osi and move Ayers to DT there isn't much left out there DT wise, Hill from Det maybe but i don't think he's a long term solution at DT for us.

A lot will happen between now and the end of camp. It always does.

Bmore Manning
05-14-2012, 08:21 PM
Another DT early next year. There are some gems next year. PLEASE GET ONE PLEASE.

Star Lotulelei from Utah! You heard it here first.

baja
05-14-2012, 08:22 PM
Ya gotta think if they are hard balling Warren they gotta have an option they feel good about

Bmore Manning
05-14-2012, 08:34 PM
Ya gotta think if they are hard balling Warren they gotta have an option they feel good about

Yeah, maybe he's on the roster ... Siliga?
Maybe he's on another team, but I am confident they are after somebody if they are hard balling Warren.

Shananahan
05-14-2012, 10:09 PM
Hill is similar to Williams, but not quiet as stout as Williams against the run, but he offers a pass rush. He has potential, with all of Detroits DT options, they may let him go for one of our young CBs like Vaughn or Thompson..
That would be hilarious.

Requiem
05-14-2012, 10:16 PM
Derek Wolfe gonna rock it out. Meth it up before the games.

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lovln8sBYL1r0u8ydo1_500.gif

pricejj
05-14-2012, 11:00 PM
Derek Wolfe gonna rock it out. Meth it up before the games.


Spoken like a true meth champion. If anybody on this board is on drugs, it's you Req. :sunshine:

I tried weed, but it makes me slip...I can't afford that, life is too hard as it is.

baja
05-15-2012, 05:21 AM
Spoken like a true meth champion. If anybody on this board is on drugs, it's you Req. :sunshine:

I tried weed, but it makes me slip...I can't afford that, life is too hard as it is.



Why is life hard for you?

Bmore Manning
05-15-2012, 05:56 AM
That would be hilarious.

Yeah maybe it's a tad bit far fetched.. But they need secondary help, we need trench help.

Gcver2ver3
05-15-2012, 07:19 AM
Maybe he's on another team, but I am confident they are after somebody if they are hard balling Warren.i'm not...

Bmore Manning
05-15-2012, 07:31 AM
i'm not...

What sense would it make to hardball Warren unless they felt they had another option on the roster, someone they were working a trade out for, or interested in via free agency?

Gcver2ver3
05-15-2012, 07:34 AM
What sense would it make to hardball Warren unless they felt they had another option on the roster, someone they were working a trade out for, or interested in via free agency?

I never said it made sense...

Bmore Manning
05-15-2012, 07:40 AM
I never said it made sense...

I do think Warren should take a pay cut, but I also think they should spend that money they save on him. Otherwise why are they doing this?

eddie mac
05-15-2012, 09:23 AM
I do think Warren should take a pay cut, but I also think they should spend that money they save on him. Otherwise why are they doing this?

To pay some of the signing bonus money to their rookies, or is there a reason no-one has signed yet???

Bmore Manning
05-15-2012, 09:44 AM
To pay some of the signing bonus money to their rookies, or is there a reason no-one has signed yet???

That's a good question. I'm hoping there not done bolstering the roster..

DBroncos4life
05-15-2012, 10:32 AM
That's a good question. I'm hoping there not done bolstering the roster..

You think there is a trash can left to dig through?

Bmore Manning
05-15-2012, 10:46 AM
You think there is a trash can left to dig through?

Jake Scott could come in and start at LG over Beadles.
OJ Atogwe, Nick Collins, Jim Leonard are all out there at safety, not that Denver needs a FS but I would advocate a thumper SS, maybe Yerimiah Bell would want a Lombardi. That would put two vets at safety with two young up and comers to split time with.

It's not all trash out there..

DBroncos4life
05-15-2012, 10:52 AM
Jake Scott could come in and start at LG over Beadles.
OJ Atogwe, Nick Collins, Jim Leonard are all out there at safety, not that Denver needs a FS but I would advocate a thumper SS, maybe Yerimiah Bell would want a Lombardi. That would put two vets at safety with two young up and comers to split time with.

It's not all trash out there..

Two of the three safeties on that list may never play again
Lets sign them!!!

MABroncoFan
05-15-2012, 10:58 AM
Who are the other NTs on the roster - Bannan and Siliga? Maybe they think Siliga will turn into Paul Soliai.

DBroncos4life
05-15-2012, 11:14 AM
Its a long season better bring in Bob Sanders too. That way we have 3 safeties that can combine 16 games for us.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
05-15-2012, 11:22 AM
With the way we run our defense, we just need a 2 down NT. Or, simply a run plugging, athletically-limited, one-dimensional player. And with Manning, the theory is that we will only need said player less than 40% of the time, which was around how much Bunkley played last season. We didn't pay Bunkley, despite stellar play, because we don't believe a run-plugging NT is of extreme importance.

Warren was starting ahead of Bunkley at NT before his injury. So, that's his position on first and second down. We know Wolfe/Vickerson will slide over to NT on passing downs anyway, when Ayers moves to 3 tech.

So, now that we understand how we are going to use the position, personally, I don't think it matters whom we have at NT. I think Bannan can do everything needed easily, and finding a backup behind him should be pretty simple since non-elite 2 down pluggers are a dime-a-dozen. Including, possibly Marcus Thomas. Warren doesn't matter a fig to me, based on his preseason tape from last year, I don't want him anywhere near our starting lineup.

Bmore Manning
05-15-2012, 11:43 AM
Its a long season better bring in Bob Sanders too. That way we have 3 safeties that can combine 16 games for us.

Now your just being a moron. I already used Bob Sanders when referencing contracts and Warren, so your a little late on the not funny joke. For you to think there are only trash free agents remaining shows you know very small amounts about football. Nick Collins has been cleared to play, Leonard will probably return to the Jets, both quality players. Surely Carter and Moore are better though.

Bmore Manning
05-15-2012, 11:45 AM
With the way we run our defense, we just need a 2 down NT. Or, simply a run plugging, athletically-limited, one-dimensional player. And with Manning, the theory is that we will only need said player less than 40% of the time, which was around how much Bunkley played last season. We didn't pay Bunkley, despite stellar play, because we don't believe a run-plugging NT is of extreme importance.

Warren was starting ahead of Bunkley at NT before his injury. So, that's his position on first and second down. We know Wolfe/Vickerson will slide over to NT on passing downs anyway, when Ayers moves to 3 tech.

So, now that we understand how we are going to use the position, personally, I don't think it matters whom we have at NT. I think Bannan can do everything needed easily, and finding a backup behind him should be pretty simple since non-elite 2 down pluggers are a dime-a-dozen. Including, possibly Marcus Thomas. Warren doesn't matter a fig to me, based on his preseason tape from last year, I don't want him anywhere near our starting lineup.

Yup I said this earlier in the thread. NTs are easy to find, NTs who can penetrate are not so easy to find, in fact they are rare.

BroncoBen
05-15-2012, 11:50 AM
Yup I said this earlier in the thread. NTs are easy to find, NTs who can penetrate are not so easy to find, in fact they are rare.

And at this time in his career I think that is all we can expect from Warren.. take up space.

DBroncos4life
05-15-2012, 12:15 PM
Now your just being a moron. I already used Bob Sanders when referencing contracts and Warren, so your a little late on the not funny joke. For you to think there are only trash free agents remaining shows you know very small amounts about football. Nick Collins has been cleared to play, Leonard will probably return to the Jets, both quality players. Surely Carter and Moore are better though.

Collins is done. Oj is as durable as bob sanders. If Jim is probably staying put why are we talking about him? Denver signed its vet saftey sorry you don't like him. Also its too early to give up on Carter and Moore but, hey you know whats best for the Broncos right?

Bmore Manning
05-15-2012, 12:17 PM
Collins is done. Oj is as durable as bob sanders. If Jim is probably staying put why are we talking about him? Denver signed its vet saftey sorry you don't like him. Also its too early to give up on Carter and Moore but, hey you know whats best for the Broncos right?

I said Yerimiah Bell would be the type of SS Denver could use. I said names of players who aren't trash, since everyone remaining is trash according to you.

DBroncos4life
05-15-2012, 12:28 PM
I said Yerimiah Bell would be the type of SS Denver could use. I said names of players who aren't trash, since everyone remaining is trash according to you.

Our first FA we signed this off season was a safety. They are happy with the position by all means keep debating it though.

Bmore Manning
05-15-2012, 04:08 PM
Our first FA we signed this off season was a safety. They are happy with the position by all means keep debating it though.

You have a difficult time with reading comprehension I see.

Bronco Rob
05-15-2012, 04:11 PM
.

Bronco Rob
05-23-2012, 06:48 AM
Ty Warren still missing.

The stalemate between the Broncos and defensive tackle Ty Warren may not be resolved until closer to the mandatory minicamp of June 12-14. At that point, the Broncos can fine Warren.

The veteran is balking at the team's suggested pay cut. He currently has a nonguaranteed $4 million salary for 2012.




http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20685826/broncos-take-sides-nfl-new-padding-rule

DENVERDUI55
05-23-2012, 06:54 AM
Ty Warren still missing.

The stalemate between the Broncos and defensive tackle Ty Warren may not be resolved until closer to the mandatory minicamp of June 12-14. At that point, the Broncos can fine Warren.

The veteran is balking at the team's suggested pay cut. He currently has a nonguaranteed $4 million salary for 2012.




http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20685826/broncos-take-sides-nfl-new-padding-rule
Send his ass packing. I have doubts that he would last all season anyways.

peacepipe
05-23-2012, 06:55 AM
Ty Warren still missing.

The stalemate between the Broncos and defensive tackle Ty Warren may not be resolved until closer to the mandatory minicamp of June 12-14. At that point, the Broncos can fine Warren.

The veteran is balking at the team's suggested pay cut. He currently has a nonguaranteed $4 million salary for 2012.




http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20685826/broncos-take-sides-nfl-new-padding-rule

IDK what will happen,but I would force the broncos to either pay up or release me. if I were ty warren.

Rohirrim
05-23-2012, 07:00 AM
The guy has been sitting on his ass while the Broncos send him checks for two years, and now he thinks the Broncos owe him something? Cut him.

Rother8
05-23-2012, 07:07 AM
CUT! CUT! CUT! CUT! CUT! CUT! ****! CUT! CUT! CUT!

Drunk Monkey
05-23-2012, 07:18 AM
IDK what will happen,but I would force the broncos to either pay up or release me. if I were ty warren.

Same here. This is his job, he once played good enough to warrant that kind of contract and likely won't get another remotely close to it. He was injured while working not playing bball or something stupid. He is also aware of the lack of depth in that position. If I were him I would stick to my guns.

My take as a fan... **** him, cut his ass.

lolcopter
05-23-2012, 07:21 AM
Send his ass packing. I have doubts that he would last all season anyways.

This

Garcia Bronco
05-23-2012, 07:39 AM
I'd cut him yesterday. How much is a brokeback-missing-two-seasons DT worth? Nothing.

Bmore Manning
05-23-2012, 07:53 AM
I have to agree with you guys.. Pay cut or BE CUT!
But they need to add another DT..

pricejj
05-23-2012, 08:00 AM
Justin Bannan starting at NT harkens me back to the days of McDaniels. As a backup? Fine with that. But Bannan has never been a starting caliber player. Bannan, like Orton, believes in his own mind that he is a starter, despite a seriously underwhelming career.

baja
05-23-2012, 08:08 AM
Show Warren the MacDonalds new employees training film, he'll sign.

Bmore Manning
05-23-2012, 08:09 AM
Justin Bannan starting at NT harkens me back to the days of McDaniels. As a backup? Fine with that. But Bannan has never been a starting caliber player. Bannan, like Orton, believes in his own mind that he is a starter, despite a seriously underwhelming career.

I think they would bring someone else in..

Rolandftw
05-23-2012, 08:18 AM
Sounds like the Broncos have the leverage with Warren. No reason to release him now, as that's probably what Warren wants... will make it easier for him to catch on with a team. Might as well wait it out, see if he changes his mind as time goes on.

If not, and his play is substandard then you cut him during the preseason. Denver doesn't have the depth at DT to afford to cut him

pricejj
05-23-2012, 08:25 AM
I think they would bring someone else in..

I don't think so. Not to start over Bannan.

Look at the remaining FA's NT's:
1. Aubrayo Franklin - pretty sucky, like Bannan...not an upgrade
2. Albert Haynesworth - they are not going to jeopardize this team to add him

Who we could trade for:
1. Sammie Lee Hill - It would be nice to have him, but if they haven't jumped on him so far this offseason (RFA period), why would they do it now?

If you take a look at the NT class next year in FA (Ron Brace), and in the draft (Hankins, Lotulelei, Jenkins, and Short)...their best option to address the starter NT position, is to wait until next offseason.

They better work it out with Warren.

pricejj
05-23-2012, 08:27 AM
Sounds like the Broncos have the leverage with Warren. No reason to release him now, as that's probably what Warren wants... will make it easier for him to catch on with a team. Might as well wait it out, see if he changes his mind as time goes on.

If not, and his play is substandard then you cut him during the preseason. Denver doesn't have the depth at DT to afford to cut him

The team Warren would be catching on with is the Patriots. They are a UT away from a dominant 4-3. Not a good idea to let him go. He would sign the very next day with Belicheat.

Requiem
05-23-2012, 08:32 AM
Denver is going to have to tank this season to get the best DT prospects, but agreed -- lets start there and get Wolfe his running mate.

cmhargrove
05-23-2012, 08:39 AM
I hope they at least restructure him on an incentive laden deal. If he becomes a good starter for $4 mil, that's fine. However, reality hasn't been good to Warren the past couple years. He owes this team some production before he gets paid a penny.

Bacchus
05-23-2012, 09:02 AM
Who cares it is only $4 million. big deal. Denver has plenty of cap space they should bring him in and let's go win the SB!!!!

kappys
05-23-2012, 09:03 AM
Wait for the June 1st cuts - some decent players might become available and then we can make a move - if not wait for TC and see if a team feels overstocked and consider a trade such as the one that brought Bunkley here. Worst case scenario we are under the cap so pay him.

Pendejo
05-23-2012, 09:06 AM
The guy has been sitting on his ass while the Broncos send him checks for two years, and now he thinks the Broncos owe him something? Cut him.

Maybe he thinks they owe him money because they all signed the same contract.

baja
05-23-2012, 09:07 AM
Who cares it is only $4 million. big deal. Denver has plenty of cap space they should bring him in and let's go win the SB!!!!

It's not always about the money. You have to be very careful to not over pay a player in the eyes of the rest of the locker room. The players and their agents will surely use that against you.

"You paid Warren this and my guy has more snaps and he's only getting this. We need more money"

It's a balancing act.

Pendejo
05-23-2012, 09:17 AM
I hope they at least restructure him on an incentive laden deal. If he becomes a good starter for $4 mil, that's fine. However, reality hasn't been good to Warren the past couple years. He owes this team some production before he gets paid a penny.

Nonsense. They acquired him after he had already missed an entire season. No one held a gun to their heads to make the deal. He was damaged goods from day one. The guy got hurt AGAIN getting ready for the season.

If you want to fire someone fire him. Don't do him the indignity of trying to keep them at a quarter of the previously agreed upon salary. If they truly think he's 1/4 of the player they thought they were getting...he doesn't belong on the team. They want a one million dollar starting tackle. No wonder they've been soft as toilet paper for so long.

If they're simply trying to get something back on their investment...perhaps they should stop buying penny stocks.

BroncoInferno
05-23-2012, 09:28 AM
IDK what will happen,but I would force the broncos to either pay up or release me. if I were ty warren.

Why? Warren has not played a snap in two seasons. He won't get any better than a vet minimum deal on the open market & probably no guarantee of being on a final roster, either. I don't see where he has any leverage.

Beantown Bronco
05-23-2012, 09:35 AM
Why? Warren has not played a snap in two seasons. He won't get any better than a vet minimum deal on the open market & probably no guarantee of being on a final roster, either. I don't see where he has any leverage.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Pats have been tampering with him and/or his agent behind the scenes. I'd be shocked if stuff like that didn't happen all the time to be honest.

pricejj
05-23-2012, 09:42 AM
Why? Warren has not played a snap in two seasons. He won't get any better than a vet minimum deal on the open market & probably no guarantee of being on a final roster, either. I don't see where he has any leverage.

He could probably get a $1M deal to step in and start immediately for the Patriots. Why accept a $1M or $1.5M to play for the Broncos?

I wouldn't be surprised if the Pats have been tampering with him and/or his agent behind the scenes. I'd be shocked if stuff like that didn't happen all the time to be honest.

Especially with Belicheat. The king of cheaters.

DBroncos4life
05-23-2012, 09:47 AM
He could probably get a $1M deal to step in and start immediately for the Patriots. Why accept a $1M or $1.5M to play for the Broncos?



Especially with Belicheat. The king of cheaters.

Considering that the veteran minimum would put his contract at minimum 800k its safe to think he will get a million or more from any team.

pricejj
05-23-2012, 09:56 AM
Considering that the veteran minimum would put his contract at minimum 800k its safe to think he will get a million or more from any team.

Exactly, which makes it even more ridiculous that the Broncos would renegotiate, and lowball him, considering whats available, and what they have on the roster... while gearing up for a Superbowl run.

Lestat
05-23-2012, 09:59 AM
this is kind of a stupid stance from the team. you signed guys to contracts and without having clear upgrades at the position ask them to take a pay cut. Vickerson would find it hard to catch on with another team that would use him correctly so that makes sense, but Warren had multiple suitors last time around and chose to sign with us.

the team knew the risks going in and still gave him a nice little chunk of change.
now because the guarantees are all paid you want him to take a pay cut? your team is not up against the cap and it's not like you can afford to easily sign your draft picks.

i wouldn't take the pay cut if i was Ty unless it was being converted to a bonus.

RaiderH8r
05-23-2012, 10:00 AM
Maybe Osweiler can play some DT since we passed on adding depth in favor of adding...um...that guy. Maybe JDR can bring Big John Henderson off the wood pile to play some downs for us this year. But I'm probably just paranoid. I'm sure our interior DL will be the envy of the NFL.

RaiderH8r
05-23-2012, 10:04 AM
this is kind of a stupid stance from the team. you signed guys to contracts and without having clear upgrades at the position ask them to take a pay cut. Vickerson would find it hard to catch on with another team that would use him correctly so that makes sense, but Warren had multiple suitors last time around and chose to sign with us.

the team knew the risks going in and still gave him a nice little chunk of change.
now because the guarantees are all paid you want him to take a pay cut? your team is not up against the cap and it's not like you can afford to easily sign your draft picks.

i wouldn't take the pay cut if i was Ty unless it was being converted to a bonus.

Exactly. The team did this to themselves by ignoring the position in favor of a project QB, 3 more of which will be in next year's draft, and 3 more the draft after that. Nothing was pressing this club to draft Osweiler but now Warren has the better negotiating position because our FO has done jack to upgrade the position and people are butt hurt that Ty's putting our FO over a barrell? Who didn't see this coming? Right now a 2 year gimpy Ty Warren is about as good as we're going to find on the trash heap we're left sifting through. Why would he take it in the tailpipe when he knows he doesn't have to? Leverage.

Lestat
05-23-2012, 10:09 AM
Exactly. The team did this to themselves by ignoring the position in favor of a project QB, 3 more of which will be in next year's draft, and 3 more the draft after that. Nothing was pressing this club to draft Osweiler but now Warren has the better negotiating position because our FO has done jack to upgrade the position and people are butt hurt that Ty's putting our FO over a barrell? Who didn't see this coming? Right now a 2 year gimpy Ty Warren is about as good as we're going to find on the trash heap we're left sifting through. Why would he take it in the tailpipe when he knows he doesn't have to? Leverage.

i don't think they would have taken another DT with that pick either way even if they didn't take Osweiler. so that point is semi moot.

but i was on board with drafting 3 DT's high in the draft. overdraft until it's a surplus. but i'm happy with our draft results.

baja
05-23-2012, 10:11 AM
How much of a pay cut are we talking here anyway?

RaiderH8r
05-23-2012, 10:14 AM
i don't think they would have taken another DT with that pick either way even if they didn't take Osweiler. so that point is semi moot.

but i was on board with drafting 3 DT's high in the draft. overdraft until it's a surplus. but i'm happy with our draft results.

We needed DT's and got Osweiler. Not. Impressed.

Lestat
05-23-2012, 10:22 AM
How much of a pay cut are we talking here anyway?

down from 4 mil down to 1-1.5 mil. 2.5-3 mil is a nice little chunk of change.

Lestat
05-23-2012, 10:25 AM
We needed DT's and got Osweiler. Not. Impressed.

Osweiler was the QB i wanted in the draft. RGIII and Tannehill blew up to top 15 selections and i wanted no part of Weeden due to his age and not likely to see the field for at least 3 seasons.

i don't like having to take him in round 2 but i like his potential so i'm good with the pick. just not the round.
but i'd rather have him in the fold and learning from Manning for 3-5 years than to have to draft someone later on who will only get 1-2 years.

baja
05-23-2012, 10:36 AM
down from 4 mil down to 1-1.5 mil. 2.5-3 mil is a nice little chunk of change.

Hell if I were Warren I'd balk too. That's a 75% pay cut.

What does a starting NT get these days?

Lestat
05-23-2012, 10:41 AM
Hell if I were Warren I'd balk too. That's a 75% pay cut.

What does a starting NT get these days?

i think it's about 3 mil. if we're talking about the average of guys who are not on rookie deals.
i believe WIlfork is the highest paid NT(5 years 40 mil, 8 per), but Ngata is considered by some to be a DE as well as a NT so he would be tops if you rank him as a NT(5 years 61 mil, 12.2 mil per).

Bmore Manning
05-23-2012, 10:42 AM
Well price..

Franklin has at least played football where Warren has not..
Albert is an UT not NT..
Adams is out there..
It's not hard to replace a run stopping NT who just occupies blockers, they are a dime a dozen.

There will probably be someone out there after cuts.

Jetmeck
05-23-2012, 10:47 AM
IDK what will happen,but I would force the broncos to either pay up or release me. if I were ty warren.

ass backwards thinkinng............he should work with us.

what would he have thought had the broncos not decided to do the
right thing and pay the guy to rehab...........sure they were bound contractually to do so however they did the right thing so should he.........................find some middle ground and get it done.then play yourself to a raise.............

DENVERDUI55
05-23-2012, 11:02 AM
They should of cut him last year when he got hurt.

Bacchus
05-23-2012, 11:04 AM
It's not always about the money. You have to be very careful to not over pay a player in the eyes of the rest of the locker room. The players and their agents will surely use that against you.

"You paid Warren this and my guy has more snaps and he's only getting this. We need more money"

It's a balancing act.

It would send a good message to the other players stating that Denver will honor contracts they agreed to and not try to low ball a player because of injuries.

baja
05-23-2012, 11:13 AM
It would send a good message to the other players stating that Denver will honor contracts they agreed to and not try to low ball a player because of injuries.

Point taken - can't argue with that.

Bmore Manning
05-23-2012, 11:20 AM
Exactly, which makes it even more ridiculous that the Broncos would renegotiate, and lowball him, considering whats available, and what they have on the roster... while gearing up for a Superbowl run.

See a few posts above for my response to you about your man crush on Warren. Oh and your boy Ron Brace is about to be cut by the Patriots... Funny he's some stud

cmhargrove
05-23-2012, 11:45 AM
Nonsense. They acquired him after he had already missed an entire season. No one held a gun to their heads to make the deal. He was damaged goods from day one. The guy got hurt AGAIN getting ready for the season.

If you want to fire someone fire him. Don't do him the indignity of trying to keep them at a quarter of the previously agreed upon salary. If they truly think he's 1/4 of the player they thought they were getting...he doesn't belong on the team. They want a one million dollar starting tackle. No wonder they've been soft as toilet paper for so long.

If they're simply trying to get something back on their investment...perhaps they should stop buying penny stocks.

Just a reading comprehension question here.

Why did you call my comment about an "incentive laden deal" nonsense, then insinuate I said anything about a million dollar contract? It's no big deal, but did you even read what I wrote before you called it "nonsense?" I just said pay him the $4 mil, but make it an incentive laden contract (no play, no pay). No need to twist my words to your desired conclusion.

You may not agree with my opinion, but at least read it if you are going to rebut it.

Beantown Bronco
05-23-2012, 11:48 AM
Oh and your boy Ron Brace is about to be cut by the Patriots... Funny he's some stud

Brace seems like the classic case of a guy who looked a lot better due to the guy playing next to him (Raji) drawing all the attention/double teams.

pricejj
05-23-2012, 11:48 AM
See a few posts above for my response to you about your man crush on Warren. Oh and your boy Ron Brace is about to be cut by the Patriots... Funny he's some stud

I don't have a man crush on Warren. I just realize he's the best DT we are going to get at this point in the offseason. I don't want to resign him next year.

Brace won't get cut. Gerard Warren might. I'm just saying there are going to be plenty of inexpensive, good, long-term NT's next offseason. I want the Broncos to upgrade, but I just don't see anybody worth it.

We'll see what comes available after June 1st. The existing FA options are not an upgrade over what is currently on the roster.

pricejj
05-23-2012, 11:55 AM
Brace seems like the classic case of a guy who looked a lot better due to the guy playing next to him (Raji) drawing all the attention/double teams.

You can't judge him by sitting in Belicheat's draft pick purgatory the last 2 years. That dude doesn't know jack crap about defensive talent. It takes most of the NT-types a few years to develop anyway.

He will be one (of many) options next offseason. We could draft an NT in rounds 1 or 2...or get one in FA. There will be a lot more young guys available next year than there were this year.

Bmore Manning
05-23-2012, 11:55 AM
I don't have a man crush on Warren. I just realize he's the best DT we are going to get at this point in the offseason. I don't want to resign him next year.

Brace won't get cut. Gerard Warren might. I'm just saying there are going to be plenty of inexpensive, good, long-term NT's next offseason. I want the Broncos to upgrade, but I just don't see anybody worth it.

We'll see what comes available after June 1st. The existing FA options are not an upgrade over what is currently on the roster.

Price.. PFT had an article about how NE beat writers don't expect Brace to make the team.. Why add another NE reject?