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pricejj
05-23-2012, 11:58 AM
Price.. PFT had an article about how NE beat writers don't expect Brace to make the team.. Why add another NE reject?

Interesting...he must suck if he can't beat out Gerard Warren. Oh well

Shananahan
05-23-2012, 11:59 AM
I'd be fine with adding a dozen rejects if the price is right.

Bmore Manning
05-23-2012, 12:04 PM
Interesting...he must suck if he can't beat out Gerard Warren. Oh well

I really really wanted Soliai..

Beantown Bronco
05-23-2012, 12:09 PM
You can't judge him by sitting in Belicheat's draft pick purgatory the last 2 years. That dude doesn't know jack crap about defensive talent.

Joke?

houghtam
05-23-2012, 12:35 PM
Nonsense. They acquired him after he had already missed an entire season. No one held a gun to their heads to make the deal. He was damaged goods from day one. The guy got hurt AGAIN getting ready for the season.

If you want to fire someone fire him. Don't do him the indignity of trying to keep them at a quarter of the previously agreed upon salary. If they truly think he's 1/4 of the player they thought they were getting...he doesn't belong on the team. They want a one million dollar starting tackle. No wonder they've been soft as toilet paper for so long.

If they're simply trying to get something back on their investment...perhaps they should stop buying penny stocks.

Wow.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Love it when people think "NFL is a business" only applies to the teams. And your point about wanting a $1M starting tackle is a point well-made.

Rep, sir.

pricejj
05-23-2012, 12:37 PM
I really really wanted Soliai..

I know man, that sucked...

Joke?

1. Nope, not a joke. How many high draft picks has Belicheat wasted over the past few years on DB's? He will give them 1 year to impress him, or he dumps them. Drafts an unknown Safety in round 2 this year? Lolz

2. Who knows what the hell they are doing with their Defense? 4-3...3-4...ooh I get it...it's the secret "flexible" Defense....that still sucks.

3. Belicheat has been able to sign tons of FA's for super-cheap, and his Defense still sucks.

4. Trades up to #22 to pick Chandler Jones (he of 10 career collegiate sacks), just because Jones has 36" arms (and because Belicheat is trying to copy the Giants). Hate to break it to you Billy, but Clady's arms are longer.

5. Belicheat got lucky the Broncos let him have Hightower. Where will Billy play Hightower? Who knows? Right now he is listed as SOLB...while they start the world's slowest MLB (Brandon Spikes) in the middle. Thanks for blowing your wad Bill, hope it doesn't pan out for ya.

6. It's pretty funny that ever since spy-gate, Billy's Defenses have dropped way off. It wouldn't be because the cheater was stealing the Offense's plays and radioing them in to Bruschi with an illegal headset (at the time), would it?

7. Belicheat also copied Manning's 2006 Offense (which the Patriots have been running the last 2 years)...and finally managed to win a playoff game...after 5 years without a playoff win. How is that even possible with a HOF'er QB?

The idiot constantly changes personnel and schemes and wonders why his Defense sucks? He's REAL freaking lucky that Tom Brady plays for him. Darklord hooded moron.

BroncoBen
05-23-2012, 12:38 PM
down from 4 mil down to 1-1.5 mil. 2.5-3 mil is a nice little chunk of change.

Yeah, $4 million is quite a bit of money to pay someone on the other side of 30 years of age, has not played in two years and has been injury prone.

I can see why Warren is not willing to re-do his salary, he knows no other team will pay him that much.

What I can see happening, is the Broncos cut him... he ends up going back to the Pats has a stellar year with no injuries or problems.

houghtam
05-23-2012, 12:47 PM
I know man, that sucked...



1. Nope, not a joke. How many high draft picks has Belicheat wasted over the past few years on DB's? He will give them 1 year to impress him, or he dumps them. Drafts an unknown Safety in round 2 this year? Lolz

2. Who knows what the hell they are doing with their Defense? 4-3...3-4...ooh I get it...it's the secret "flexible" Defense....that still sucks.

3. Belicheat has been able to sign tons of FA's for super-cheap, and his Defense still sucks.

4. Trades up to #22 to pick Chandler Jones (he of 10 career collegiate sacks), just because he has 36" arms (and because he is trying to copy the Giants). Hate to break it to you Billy, but Clady's arms are longer.

5. He got lucky the Broncos let him have Hightower. Where will Billy play Hightower? Who knows? Right now he is listed as SOLB...while they start the world's slowest MLB (Brandon Spikes) in the middle.

6. It's pretty funny that ever since spy-gate, Billy's Defenses have dropped way off. It wouldn't be because you were stealing the Offense's plays and radioing them in to Bruschi with an illegal headset (at the time), would it?

7. Belicheat also copied Manning's 2006 Offense (which the Patriots have been running the last 2 years)...and finally managed to win a playoff game...after 5 years.

The idiot constantly changes personnel and schemes and wonders why his Defense sucks? He's REAL freaking lucky that Tom Brady plays for him. Darklord hooded moron.

Might want to check your stat-tastics there, chief. The Patriots defense was bad last year, yes. They've also been ranked 8th or higher in points given up 5 of the past 6 seasons. 11th or higher in yards given up 4 of the past 6 seasons.

So the question I have is...did you just start watching football last year?

pricejj
05-23-2012, 12:55 PM
Might want to check your stat-tastics there, chief. The Patriots defense was bad last year, yes. They've also been ranked 8th or higher in points given up 5 of the past 6 seasons. 11th or higher in yards given up 4 of the past 6 seasons.

So the question I have is...did you just start watching football last year?

Wouldn't have anything to do with playing in the dreaded AFC East would it? Ah, the dreaded Dolphins, Jets, and Bills? Offensive juggernauts to be sure. Even with homefield advantage every single year, a HOF'er QB, a multitude of underpaid FA's, and the refs in his back pocket, he still managed to lose every game in the playoffs (or miss them) for 4 years.

Year after year, the Patriots have one of the NFL's easiest schedules...and still freaking suck.

Beantown Bronco
05-23-2012, 12:57 PM
Year after year, the Patriots have one of the NFL's easiest schedules...and still freaking suck.

C'mon now. Suck? How often are they NOT drafting in the mid 20s or worse (not counting picks they inherit from other teams)?

baja
05-23-2012, 01:03 PM
C'mon now. Suck? How often are they NOT drafting in the mid 20s or worse (not counting picks they inherit from other teams)?

Just think if they were as good at using draft picks as they are at acquiring them.

houghtam
05-23-2012, 01:04 PM
Wouldn't have anything to do with playing in the dreaded AFC East would it? Ah, the dreaded Dolphins, Jets, and Bills? Offensive juggernauts to be sure. Even with homefield advantage every single year, a HOF'er QB, a multitude of underpaid FA's, and the refs in his back pocket, he still managed to lose every game in the playoffs (or miss them) for 4 years.

Year after year, the Patriots have one of the NFL's easiest schedules...and still freaking suck.

So now instead of "NE's defense just sucks", it's "NE's defense sucks AND they play in a horrible division?"

NE's defense had a bad year last year (edit: and still ended up in the top half of the league in points given up). They had a below average year in 2010 (edit: and still ended up top 10 in points given up). That's it. They've generally been good to very good. If you had been watching for the past several years instead of just the past one or two, you'd know that, just like the rest of the world.

DBroncos4life
05-23-2012, 01:07 PM
I really really wanted Soliai..

So did Miami that is why they resigned him.

pricejj
05-23-2012, 01:12 PM
C'mon now. Suck? How often are they NOT drafting in the mid 20s or worse (not counting picks they inherit from other teams)?

Yes he sucks. It hasn't hampered the Steelers, Ravens, Colts, etc. from winning playoff games nearly every single year or making it to the Superbowl, even though they have to travel through (and kick the crap out of) New England to get there. The Broncos owned them, until McDaniels decimated the team.

He is quite good at ripping off teams and players though...must be pretty sweet to have Tom Brady for the last 12 years.

Bmore Manning
05-23-2012, 01:14 PM
So did Miami that is why they resigned him.

Thanks for the breaking news.

DBroncos4life
05-23-2012, 01:16 PM
Thanks for the breaking news.

Just helping you move on so you can stop crying about a guy that wasn't ever going to be a option in the first place.

pricejj
05-23-2012, 01:17 PM
So now instead of "NE's defense just sucks", it's "NE's defense sucks AND they play in a horrible division?"

NE's defense had a bad year last year (edit: and still ended up in the top half of the league in points given up). They had a below average year in 2010 (edit: and still ended up top 10 in points given up). That's it. They've generally been good to very good. If you had been watching for the past several years instead of just the past one or two, you'd know that, just like the rest of the world.

Here's a big congratu-mother****in'-lations to Belicheat and the rest of his band of cheating losers.

I only watch the Broncos, douche-nozzle, and I have been doing that since about '82 when I was 5 years old.

How long have you been a Patriots fan?

houghtam
05-23-2012, 01:18 PM
Yes he sucks. It hasn't hampered the Steelers, Ravens, Colts, etc. from winning playoff games nearly every single year or making it to the Superbowl, even though they have to travel through (and kick the crap out of) New England to get there. The Broncos owned them, until McDaniels decimated the team.

He is quite good at ripping off teams and players though...must be pretty sweet to have Tom Brady for the last 12 years.

LOL if your other posts in other threads about other stuff hadn't already proven it, this takes the cake.

"Bill Bellichick is a moron and sucks." -- pricejj

"No he isn't." - the entire NFL, every sports reporter, this entire board, and reality

Bmore Manning
05-23-2012, 01:19 PM
Just helping you move on so you can stop crying about a guy that wasn't ever going to be a option in the first place.

Or the part where he was getting ready to fly to Denver, before Miami ponied up? Not an option.. You just enjoy being a douche.

houghtam
05-23-2012, 01:21 PM
Here's a big congratu-mother****in'-lations to Belicheat and the rest of his band of cheating losers.

I only watch the Broncos, douche-nozzle, and I have been doing that since about '82 when I was 5 years old.

How long have you been a Patriots fan?

Yep, I'm a Patriots fan because I can see and read.

If you only watch the Broncos, then your opinion about other teams is invalidated anyway.

But please, continue with the ad hominems. They make you look even crazier.

baja
05-23-2012, 01:22 PM
I think Bellichick is starting to slip.

The way Shanny did.

I think the burnout claim is valid.

DBroncos4life
05-23-2012, 01:27 PM
Or the part where he was getting ready to fly to Denver, before Miami ponied up? Not an option.. You just enjoy being a douche.

Yes, by admitting that Miami wasn't going to let him leave is part of the acceptance process. You are healing!

pricejj
05-23-2012, 01:30 PM
Yep, I'm a Patriots fan because I can see and read.


I said Belicheat doesn't know jack crap about Defensive talent. And I could care less about the Patriots. His draft busts, and lack of playoff wins...despite overwhelming odd's in his favor, validate that.

Keep spouting out NE's inflated Defensive statistics if you want, it doesn't really have anything to do with Belicheat as a Defensive talent evaluator.

DBroncos4life
05-23-2012, 01:31 PM
I said Belicheat doesn't know jack crap about Defensive talent. And I could care less about the Patriots. His draft busts, and lack of playoff wins...despite overwhelming odd's in his favor, validate that.

Keep spouting out NE's inflated Defensive statistics if you want, it doesn't really have anything to do with Belicheat as a talent evaluator.

Wut?

TonyR
05-23-2012, 01:32 PM
I think Bellichick is starting to slip.

The way Shanny did.


They've averaged 12.8 regular season wins the last 5 years and were in the Super Bowl last year. When's the last time Shanahan won a playoff game? Or even made the playoffs, for that matter.

pricejj
05-23-2012, 01:36 PM
They've averaged 12.8 regular season wins the last 5 years and were in the Super Bowl last year. When's the last time Shanahan won a playoff game? Or even made the playoffs, for that matter.

When was the last time Shanahan had one of the top 5 QB's in the history of the NFL?

Bmore Manning
05-23-2012, 01:36 PM
Yes, by admitting that Miami wasn't going to let him leave is part of the acceptance process. You are healing!

Your not making sense, as usual you are trolling my posts and being a douche. Soliai was a FA making him an option for all 32 NFL teams. His first visit was going to be in Denver, seems like a pretty ****ing realistic option to me.

Beantown Bronco
05-23-2012, 01:40 PM
When was the last time Shanahan had one of the top 5 QB's in the history of the NFL?

To be fair, his one year without him the Pats still went 11-5. When was the last time we did that with a backup QB for an entire season?

TonyR
05-23-2012, 01:40 PM
Long write up on the DT position, including the NT question:

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/scouting-the-broncos-2012-defensive-tackles

DBroncos4life
05-23-2012, 01:41 PM
Your not making sense, as usual you are trolling my posts and being a douche. Soliai was a FA making him an option for all 32 NFL teams. His first visit was going to be in Denver, seems like a pretty ****ing realistic option to me.

Then why didn't he fly to Denver and see what we had to offer him?

DBroncos4life
05-23-2012, 01:46 PM
Long write up on the DT position, including the NT question:

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/scouting-the-broncos-2012-defensive-tackles

They also added a potential weakside linebacker who has a history of getting to the quarterback in tackling monster Danny Trevathan. I see they don't veiw him as the next Al Wilson either.

pricejj
05-23-2012, 01:47 PM
To be fair, his one year without him the Pats still went 11-5. When was the last time we did that with a backup QB for an entire season?

Last year.

We didn't go 11-5, but we won the division and won a playoff game with a backup QB.

It's pretty easy to go 11-5 in the AFC East. NE didn't make the playoffs.

I'm done with talking about this. I freaking hate that whole entire organization, if Ty Warren wants to be part of it...let him go.

Bmore Manning
05-23-2012, 01:49 PM
Then why didn't he fly to Denver and see what we had to offer him?

Because the team he has spent his career thus far playing on paid him! You can't be serious to think Miami was the only interested team.

DBroncos4life
05-23-2012, 01:51 PM
Because the team he has spent his career thus far playing on paid him! You can't be serious to think Miami was the only interested team.

No I'm saying he wasn't too intrested in leaving Miami. You can't be serious in thinking Miami offered him the most money he could have got.

Beantown Bronco
05-23-2012, 01:54 PM
To be fair, his one year without him the Pats still went 11-5. When was the last time we did that with a backup QB for an entire season?

Last year.

We didn't go 11-5, but......

So we did it last year, even though we didn't. Interesting.

Was it really that hard a question to understand?

Bmore Manning
05-23-2012, 01:59 PM
No I'm saying he wasn't too intrested in leaving Miami. You can't be serious in thinking Miami offered him the most money he could have got.

He got 2 years 18 million. At 9 million per season he gets to stay with the team he played his ball with thus far and make good money in doing so. That was probably the biggest factor. Yes he probably could have gotten more elsewhere, but that wasn't the only factor for him.

DBroncos4life
05-23-2012, 02:03 PM
He got 2 years 18 million. At 9 million per season he gets to stay with the team he played his ball with thus far and make good money in doing so. That was probably the biggest factor. Yes he probably could have gotten more elsewhere, but that wasn't the only factor for him.

Which is why I say he wasn't a real option in the first place. He DIDN'T want to leave.

baja
05-23-2012, 02:15 PM
They've averaged 12.8 regular season wins the last 5 years and were in the Super Bowl last year. When's the last time Shanahan won a playoff game? Or even made the playoffs, for that matter.

Shanny got to the point where his teams would quit on him late in the season but it took several seasons after the SB wins to get to that point.

As soon as Brady is done Bilichick will start his Shanny like slide.

lonestar
05-23-2012, 02:19 PM
Wait for the June 1st cuts - some decent players might become available and then we can make a move - if not wait for TC and see if a team feels overstocked and consider a trade such as the one that brought Bunkley here. Worst case scenario we are under the cap so pay him.

not so sure the Jun 1 cuts are out there anymore with the new CBA..

Think all that drama went away with it..

DivineLegion
05-23-2012, 02:24 PM
No I'm saying he wasn't too intrested in leaving Miami. You can't be serious in thinking Miami offered him the most money he could have got.

They didn't, he took a hometown discount to stay in Miami.

houghtam
05-23-2012, 02:25 PM
Shanny got to the point where his teams would quit on him late in the season but it took several seasons after the SB wins to get to that point.

As soon as Brady is done Bilichick will start his Shanny like slide.

Are we talking about the 2010-2011 Patriots, each of whom won 8 games in a row to close out the regular season?

Must be the really early stages...

baja
05-23-2012, 02:28 PM
Are we talking about the 2010-2011 Patriots, each of whom won 8 games in a row to close out the regular season?

Must be the really early stages...

LOL It's just that I think Bilichick was a better coach a few years ago than he is now. Ya I think he is in the early stages of burn out.

DBroncos4life
05-23-2012, 02:35 PM
All coaches flame out the longer they stay. Shanny wasn't the first coach to do this. I agree that some of the shine is starting to come off BB, still he has a long way to fall before you have start this talk that he or the Pats suck and it's just Tom Brady winning the games.

lonestar
05-23-2012, 02:37 PM
Posted by baja
Shanny got to the point where his teams would quit on him late in the season but it took several seasons after the SB wins to get to that point.

As soon as Brady is done Bilichick will start his Shanny like slide.

do you think they quit on him or were flat worn out by games 14+

have to remember he has always like smaller quicker players on Offense and one can only take so much of a beating by the big guys and then your done..

If you start the season at 285 pounds and your on the OL getting hammered by 300-355 pound guys weekly sooner or later you just can't keep the weight on I have to wonder just how much weight the OL loses over the season..

then there are his RB most of which were 200 to 215 max.. TD played at 208 for most of his career.. got up to 212 one year..

I had never thought they quit on him because overall some players came to DEN because of the light weekly workouts..

Now on D hell we have never had a stellar DL.. (more than one guy at a time), almost all of our LBs were faster and smallish under 240..

I always saw them as getting hurt more and thus being less effective late in the year..

Plus Y'all have to remember that the cream rises to the top come playoffs.

One last thing Mikey was the master at smoke and mirrors by week 12 or so most of the gadgets he used had been exposed..

Just one more ZBS was effective between the 20's and most teams will trade you FG's for TD any day of the week..

lonestar
05-23-2012, 02:39 PM
All coaches flame out the longer they stay. Shanny wasn't the first coach to do this. I agree that some of the shine is starting to come off BB, still he has a long way to fall before you have start this talk that he or the Pats suck and it's just Tom Brady winning the games.

Good post.. I think NE will be a player for a long time as they have lost loads of Coordinators over the past 8 years or so.. now some are coming back and the ones that are already there are getting better after time..

With Brady there they will be e force until he retires in 8 or more years..

baja
05-23-2012, 02:42 PM
Naw Man those teams the last threes seasons quit on him and that is why Bowlen became convinced that "Life Time Mike" had to go.

lonestar
05-23-2012, 02:50 PM
Naw Man those teams the last threes seasons quit on him and that is why Bowlen became convinced that "Life Time Mike" had to go.

could be.. I live 800 miles away and do not get to see/hear the local commentatry on what is going on.. all I get locally are how great the cowgirls are.. Occasionally the texans stuff..

those were my observations, our small team getting beat up by the bigger teams..

baja
05-23-2012, 02:58 PM
do you think they quit on him or were flat worn out by games 14+

have to remember he has always like smaller quicker players on Offense and one can only take so much of a beating by the big guys and then your done..

If you start the season at 285 pounds and your on the OL getting hammered by 300-355 pound guys weekly sooner or later you just can't keep the weight on I have to wonder just how much weight the OL loses over the season..

then there are his RB most of which were 200 to 215 max.. TD played at 208 for most of his career.. got up to 212 one year..

I had never thought they quit on him because overall some players came to DEN because of the light weekly workouts..

Now on D hell we have never had a stellar DL.. (more than one guy at a time), almost all of our LBs were faster and smallish under 240..

I always saw them as getting hurt more and thus being less effective late in the year..

Plus Y'all have to remember that the cream rises to the top come playoffs.

One last thing Mikey was the master at smoke and mirrors by week 12 or so most of the gadgets he used had been exposed..

Just one more ZBS was effective between the 20's and most teams will trade you FG's for TD any day of the week..

I wanted to add all your points are well taken and all were a contributing factor in the late season collapse but it does not change what I saw on the field during the last three game of two seasons in a row. Those players had quit.

lonestar
05-23-2012, 03:02 PM
I wanted to add all your points are well taken and all were a contributing factor in the late season collapse but it does not change what I saw on the field during the last three game of two seasons in a row. Those players had quit.

you saw them I did not all I got to see were what the TV cameras showed.. and quit is hard to quantify on a 55" flat screen..

pricejj
05-23-2012, 03:33 PM
They also added a potential weakside linebacker who has a history of getting to the quarterback in tackling monster Danny Trevathan. I see they don't veiw him as the next Al Wilson either.

I didn't say Trevathan was going to be the next Al Wilson. I said he is an Al Wilson clone. Meaning, Trevathan is not too small to play MLB, and is just as fast Wilson (allegedly).

Like Baja said, Trevanthan's not a thumper, so that would rule him out of the mix at MLB.

DBroncos4life
05-23-2012, 03:37 PM
I didn't say Trevathan was going to be the next Al Wilson. I said he is an Al Wilson clone. Meaning, Trevathan is not too small to play MLB, and is just as fast Wilson (allegedly).

Like Baja said, Trevanthan's not a thumper, so that would rule him out of the mix at MLB.

Find me one 232 pound 4-3 MLB in the NFL.

pricejj
05-23-2012, 03:52 PM
Find me one 232 pound 4-3 MLB in the NFL.

Again, he weighed in 237 lbs. at the combine. Al Wilson was 239. Not only that, but Trevathan is a liitle taller than Wilson, and could put on 5 more lbs., without slowing him down.

You really want to rehash all this crap today?

Like Baja said, Trevathan's not a thumper. That would rule him out at MLB.

DBroncos4life
05-23-2012, 04:02 PM
Again, he weighed in 237 lbs. at the combine. Al Wilson was 239. Not only that, but Trevathan is a liitle taller than Wilson, and could put on 5 more lbs., without slowing him down.

You really want to rehash all this crap today?

Like Baja said, Trevathan's not a thumper. That would rule him out at MLB.

Lots of players bulk up for the combine to look bigger. That doesn't meam he is playing at that weight or going to be able to keep in on during the NFL season. He is listed at 232 on the team page and we all know how much teams love to lie about players size.

Again he already added 5 pounds for the combine and was SLOWER. He can't add weight and stay fast. The proof that he did and got slower should point this out too you. By all means keep saying he can though. ROFL!

baja
05-23-2012, 04:15 PM
you saw them I did not all I got to see were what the TV cameras showed.. and quit is hard to quantify on a 55" flat screen..

I wasn't at the games. I watched on TV just like you. Still I got the distinct impression they had quit. I thought it was quite obvious actually.

pricejj
05-23-2012, 04:22 PM
How many posts does it take to tell you he had a hamstring injury at the combine?

How many posts does it take to tell you that Fox knows Trevathan is faster than the combine forty would indicate?

Do you think that perhaps, NFL teams post the same weight for rookies listed by the college they played for, until official weigh in? Or do you think the Broncos had a special weigh in (just for rookies) moments after the draft?

The Broncos list Elvis Dumervil at 260 lbs...he is in fact 250 lbs. now.

Von Miller is listed as 237 lbs...but currently weighs 244 lbs.


The real question is, why are you giving me such a hard time for noticing the physical similarities between two players? You may want to rearrange your priorities.

DBroncos4life
05-23-2012, 04:30 PM
How many posts does it take to tell you he had a hamstring injury at the combine?

How many posts does it take to tell you that Fox knows Trevathan is faster than the combine forty would indicate?

Do you think that perhaps, NFL teams post the same weight for rookies listed by the college they played for, until official weigh in? Or do you think the Broncos had a special weigh in (just for rookies) moments after the draft?

The Broncos list Elvis Dumervil at 260 lbs...he is in fact 250 lbs. now.

Von Miller is listed as 237 lbs...but currently weighs 244 lbs.
The real question is, why are you giving me such a hard time for noticing the physical similarities between two players? You may want to rearrange your priorities.

You know this for a fact how?

Lets look at it this way. In HS he weight 225 and ran 4.5. Fast foward a few years and he weights 237 at the combine and was running a 4.7 BEFORE he hurt himself. So do you think he will be faster or slower at 242? PS I think he hurt the hammy trying to run at a weight his body can't handle.

I'm giving you a hard time for being flat out WRONG in thinking there is any physical similarities between Al Wilson and some 6th round draft pick.

pricejj
05-23-2012, 04:33 PM
Why do you think the Broncos would draft a WLB who runs a 4.7 forty?

Also, I did not know he weighed 225 in HS. I found an article yesterday saying he put on 15 lbs. going into his Jr. year. That would put him in the neighborhood of 240.

I know about Miller's and Dumervil's weight from an article today in the DP:
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20692566/broncos-busy-watching-weight-during-first-round-otas

DBroncos4life
05-23-2012, 04:34 PM
Why do you think the Broncos would draft a WLB who runs a 4.7 forty?

Because he was worth a 6th round flyer on.

pricejj
05-23-2012, 06:19 PM
After watching this interview,and learning that he graded out at a +12.3 run stop rating (from IAOFM.com), I'm sold on Bannan. He has pretty good size for a 4-3 NT (6'026", 312 lbs.), he's seasoned, solid, and isn't taking any crap I can forgive his previous appearance hoddie jr. Plus he's a Buff...it's time to ride! :sunshine:

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/OTAs-Day-Two-Bannan/ba423555-7198-48ac-b7d8-6d9b2557903d

DBroncos4life
05-23-2012, 06:26 PM
Why do you think the Broncos would draft a WLB who runs a 4.7 forty?

Also, I did not know he weighed 225 in HS. I found an article yesterday saying he put on 15 lbs. going into his Jr. year. That would put him in the neighborhood of 240.
I know about Miller's and Dumervil's weight from an article today in the DP:
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20692566/broncos-busy-watching-weight-during-first-round-otas

Good lord.

DBroncos4life
05-23-2012, 06:36 PM
http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/player-Danny-Trevathan-61967

Rivals had him listed at 6'2 215 and runs a 4.59 40. Leads me to believe that he isn't as blazing fast as you claim Price.

pricejj
05-23-2012, 06:42 PM
http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/player-Danny-Trevathan-61967

Rivals had him listed at 6'2 215 and runs a 4.59 40. Leads me to believe that he isn't as blazing fast as you claim Price.

Yeah, who know's man. I said he probably runs in the 4.5's. That isn't blazing fast. I'm just looking for dude's on he roster that might be able to step up and improve the MLB position.

I'm watching these interviews on Denverbroncos.com...hyped about Mike Adams. :sunshine:

Bmore Manning
05-23-2012, 08:10 PM
Find me one 232 pound 4-3 MLB in the NFL.

Pat Angerer was 232.

DBroncos4life
05-23-2012, 08:22 PM
Pat Angerer was 232.

Well **** I guess that changes everything Uhh

Bmore Manning
05-23-2012, 08:56 PM
Well **** I guess that changes everything Uhh

Nah, he's probably closer to 240 now.. Most are 240 and up. It changes nothing, sometimes price has solid research and quality thoughts, then sometimes he really leaves me scratching my head.

houghtam
05-23-2012, 09:29 PM
For what it's worth, nfldraftscout has him at 237 and a 4.75 40 with a 4.65 low and 4.85 high.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=84691&draftyear=2012&genpos=OLB

pricejj
05-24-2012, 03:09 AM
Nah, he's probably closer to 240 now.. Most are 240 and up. It changes nothing, sometimes price has solid research and quality thoughts, then sometimes he really leaves me scratching my head.

http://al-wilson.ememorials.in/userfiles/john/Al%20Wilson.jpg

Bmore Manning
05-24-2012, 04:52 AM
What's that one mean price?

DENVERDUI55
05-24-2012, 05:52 AM
Oh god still posting shirtless pictures of dudes arguing weight.

BroncoBuff
05-24-2012, 06:19 AM
Malik Jackson is gonna surprise people ... but he's a 3-technique guy like Wolfe. For NT, I wish we had drafted Fangupo. We probably could've traded the 6th we used on Trevathan for two 7ths (maybe not, but follow along), still get Travathan and draft Fangupo too. Trevathan might have gone undrafted but for us ....

Bmore Manning
05-24-2012, 07:31 AM
Malik Jackson is gonna surprise people ... but he's a 3-technique guy like Wolfe. For NT, I wish we had drafted Fangupo. We probably could've traded the 6th we used on Trevathan for two 7ths (maybe not, but follow along), still get Travathan and draft Fangupo too. Trevathan might have gone undrafted but for us ....

Agree about Jackson, I have been saying this draft was better than people think.
But if they could have gotten Trevathan in the 7th, I would have preferred Jean Baptiste of Baylor.. instead of Fangupo of BYU

BroncoBuff
05-24-2012, 08:01 AM
Jean-Baptiste was not drafted either? Arrrrgggh. I had him on my wish list with Fangupo (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3561934&#post3561934). I thought he'd been drafted.

Bmore Manning
05-24-2012, 08:16 AM
Jean-Baptiste was not drafted either? Arrrrgggh. I had him on my wish list with Fangupo (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3561934&#post3561934). I thought he'd been drafted.

Ravens took him to be their back up NT. Denver should have gotten an UDFA NT..

pricejj
05-24-2012, 08:20 AM
What's that one mean price?

price: "Player A is only 2 lbs. lighter than player b."
db4L: "ZOMG!! Everybody, I can't believe price thinks Trevathan is the best MLB of all times."
price: ??
db4L: posts semi-nude picture of Al Wilson
.
.
10 pages later...
db4L: "Player A is 7 lbs. lighter than player b, and his weight taken 1 year ago proves it."
price: "This again??"
bmore: "Yeah, that price makes me scratch my head."
price: posts semi-nude picture of Al Wilson
bmore: scratches his head



If hyperbole were grains of sand, the Omane would build pyramids daily.

lolcopter
05-24-2012, 08:24 AM
The idea of Trevathan at MLB is pretty laughable

houghtam
05-24-2012, 08:30 AM
price: "Player A is only 2 lbs. lighter than player b."
db4L: "ZOMG!! Everybody, I can't believe price thinks Trevathan is the best MLB of all times."
price: ??
db4L: posts semi-nude picture of Al Wilson
.
.
10 pages later...
db4L: "Player A is 7 lbs. lighter than player b, and his weight taken 1 year ago proves it."
price: "This again??"
bmore: "Yeah, that price makes me scratch my head."
price: posts semi-nude picture of Al Wilson
bmore: scratches his head



If hyperbole were grains of sand, the Omane would build pyramids daily.

"Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I'll just have to stop doing stupid things!"

"DB4L, if you're going to re-post my stuff 10 pages later every time I post something stupid, then I'll just have to stop posting stupid things!"

Bigdawg26
05-24-2012, 08:31 AM
Jean-Baptiste was not drafted either? Arrrrgggh. I had him on my wish list with Fangupo (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3561934&#post3561934). I thought he'd been drafted.

I would have liked him to, but it seems like the broncos are going with smaller DT's now.

cmhargrove
05-24-2012, 08:34 AM
I would have liked him to, but it seems like the broncos are going with smaller DT's now.

It works for the Giants.

It has been said Ad Nauseum, but the NFL is a copy cat league, and teams are bound to look at the Giants formula for d-line success. Hopefully, Wolfe can become the next Justin Tuck type player (crosses fingers).

Beantown Bronco
05-24-2012, 08:44 AM
Hopefully, Wolfe can become the next Justin Tuck type player (crosses fingers).

I'd rather him not take three seasons to do anything in the NFL like Tuck did.

pricejj
05-24-2012, 09:01 AM
"Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I'll just have to stop doing stupid things!"

"DB4L, if you're going to re-post my stuff 10 pages later every time I post something stupid, then I'll just have to stop posting stupid things!"

I'll keep that in mind the next time I post the facts about a newly drafted player's weight and college position.

Bmore Manning
05-24-2012, 09:11 AM
price: "Player A is only 2 lbs. lighter than player b."
db4L: "ZOMG!! Everybody, I can't believe price thinks Trevathan is the best MLB of all times."
price: ??
db4L: posts semi-nude picture of Al Wilson
.
.
10 pages later...
db4L: "Player A is 7 lbs. lighter than player b, and his weight taken 1 year ago proves it."
price: "This again??"
bmore: "Yeah, that price makes me scratch my head."
price: posts semi-nude picture of Al Wilson
bmore: scratches his head



If hyperbole were grains of sand, the Omane would build pyramids daily.

Price I said sometimes you post well thought out solid posts.. Other times you make me scratch my head.. I didn't gang up on you..

baja
05-24-2012, 09:35 AM
The idea of Trevathan at MLB is pretty laughable

How much does he weigh?

pricejj
05-24-2012, 09:39 AM
Price I said sometimes you post well thought out solid posts.. Other times you make me scratch my head.. I didn't gang up on you..

No big deal. Let's just say I'm highly sceptical of Mays, and have absolutely no confidence in Irving or Mohamed. Looking forward to see what some of these rookies can do.

2KBack
05-24-2012, 09:43 AM
The idea of Trevathan at MLB is pretty laughable

Aside from the fact that he didn't play it in college....why such the humor? He isn't much different than Nate Irving from a measurable perspective, but everyone talk about the hopes they have for him.

Tombstone RJ
05-25-2012, 07:36 AM
Aside from the fact that he didn't play it in college....why such the humor? He isn't much different than Nate Irving from a measurable perspective, but everyone talk about the hopes they have for him.

Irving played MLB in college for one thing. I'm not sure why peeps on this site are so hyped up about Trevathan, he went undrafted for a reason. I like Danny too but people need to realize he's not "the answer" to all this defensive woes on this team.

I predict he'll be a great STs guy and if he pans out like Woodyard, great.

Requiem
05-25-2012, 07:40 AM
Uh, Danny Trevathan was our sixth-round pick.

He also played ~ 225 (weight) in college and bulked up for the workouts and combine.

He is a WLB in the NFL. He has good coverage skills and lengthy arms. He is quicker in game action than what he ran. I think he has a lot more potential than Woodyard in the NFL (starting ability), and at the very least should be a great special tamer.

baja
05-25-2012, 07:47 AM
I hope he (Danny Trevathan) will be like Doom, the guy that in spite of being the sack leader in college lasted until round 4 because teams thought he was undersized. As they say you can't measure desire.

Tombstone RJ
05-25-2012, 07:50 AM
Uh, Danny Trevathan was our sixth-round pick.

He also played ~ 225 (weight) in college and bulked up for the workouts and combine.

He is a WLB in the NFL. He has good coverage skills and lengthy arms. He is quicker in game action than what he ran. I think he has a lot more potential than Woodyard in the NFL (starting ability), and at the very least should be a great special tamer.

My bad. But the Broncos did bring in a few other UDFA LBers so Danny has to beat these guys out too.

BroncoBeavis
05-25-2012, 08:05 AM
Maybe this has been addressed...long thread.

But if they wanted to restructure Warren, why didn't they take care of this before letting Bunkley walk?

Pre-draft and with Bunk kinda-sorta still a Bronco, they would've had a ton more leverage than they do now.

TonyR
05-25-2012, 08:10 AM
Maybe this has been addressed...long thread.

But if they wanted to restructure Warren, why didn't they take care of this before letting Bunkley walk?

Pre-draft and with Bunk kinda-sorta still a Bronco, they would've had a ton more leverage than they do now.

For one, I don't think they were willing to pay Bunkley remotely what he got from NO. For another, I don't think they are all that married to Ty Warren. If he stays, great, they'll give him a shot to contribute. If not, others will get that opportunity. The $ they're offering reflects his value to them, which clearly isn't as high as he wants it to be.

baja
05-25-2012, 08:16 AM
For one, I don't think they were willing to pay Bunkley remotely what he got from NO. For another, I don't think they are all that married to Ty Warren. If he stays, great, they'll give him a shot to contribute. If not, others will get that opportunity. The $ they're offering reflects his value to them, which clearly isn't as high as he wants it to be.

If this is the case why not offer him an incentive laded contract. He has shown he has trouble staying on the field so he should be willing to move to a more incentive driven contract given the past two seasons of him collecting millions to sit in the hot tub.

pricejj
05-25-2012, 08:39 AM
Ty Warren:
1. Not sure if he would be good at NT in a 4-3.
2. Alfred Williams was pretty much done after a torn triceps at DE...at NT, Warren would have to take a double. Doubtful he could even hold up.
3. At 6'5", 300 lbs., could he be the run stopper Bunkley was? Doubt it.

Justin Bannan:
1. He doesn't have elite talent, but he has starting experience at NT in a 4-3.
2. Can we really judge him from playing on McCheat's horrible Defenses the last 3 years?
3. At 6'026", 312 lbs., he has good size at the NT position.
4. Can he be the run stopper that Bunkley was? It's possible.

All we need Bannan for is to play 40% of the snaps (like Bunkley). He should be solid, and graded out well by PFF (+8.8 overall, +12.4 run defense). He is going to be a great influence for guys like Wolfe, and Garland. Last year, Bannan played 47.6% of the snaps for St. Louis, and will play less in Denver.

Bannan is solid, and it's a little late in the game for theatrics. It's time for these guys to start gelling. Stick to the $1.5M offer to Warren, and assume he's not going to show up to June mini-camp. Bannan can hold down the fort as the starting NT, at least until next offseason.

Requiem
05-25-2012, 10:16 AM
Irving played MLB in college for one thing. I'm not sure why peeps on this site are so hyped up about Trevathan, he went undrafted for a reason. I like Danny too but people need to realize he's not "the answer" to all this defensive woes on this team.

I predict he'll be a great STs guy and if he pans out like Woodyard, great.

I think that Denver got some really productive linebackers out of the draft considering where they got them (late-round and UDFA). The bonus is that they will have Jack Del Rio and John Fox to get coaching from, who have done great with developing players at those positions in the past.

Jerry Franklin is a Joe Mays clone, IMHO. Doesn't have good lateral movement, misses some tackles, good in coverage, but a great down-hill run-stuffer with the knack for making the big hit and TFL. He needs refinement in a lot of areas, but he does have NFL ability. Hopefully one of these guys can come in and make some plays.

razorwire77
05-25-2012, 10:29 AM
Ty Warren:
1. Not sure if he would be good at NT in a 4-3.
2. Alfred Williams was pretty much done after a torn triceps at DE...at NT, Warren would have to take a double. Doubtful he could even hold up.
3. At 6'5", 300 lbs., could he be the run stopper Bunkley was? Doubt it.

Justin Bannan:
1. He doesn't have elite talent, but he has starting experience at NT in a 4-3.
2. Can we really judge him from playing on McCheat's horrible Defenses the last 3 years?
3. At 6'026", 312 lbs., he has good size at the NT position.
4. Can he be the run stopper that Bunkley was? It's possible.

All we need Bannan for is to play 40% of the snaps (like Bunkley). He should be solid, and graded out well by PFF (+8.8 overall, +12.4 run defense). He is going to be a great influence for guys like Wolfe, and Garland. Last year, Bannan played 47.6% of the snaps for St. Louis, and will play less in Denver.

Bannan is solid, and it's a little late in the game for theatrics. It's time for these guys to start gelling. Stick to the $1.5M offer to Warren, and assume he's not going to show up to June mini-camp. Bannan can hold down the fort as the starting NT, at least until next offseason.

I think they are calling Warren's bluff. My guess is he'll hold out through mini-camp and show up out of shape during preseason games. Then he will probably get hurt.

Bmore Manning
05-25-2012, 10:32 AM
Trevathan is going to be a serious WLB. PFF and Walterfootball did a write up on him, along with a handful of other LBs from the draft, like Lavonte David, Zach Brown, Kendricks, and Keluchey.. Yet they compared this late prospect to Lance Briggs and did a write up on him with those guys!

He fell to the 6th because he is undersized and played for Kentucky! The unknown SEC football team..

Tombstone RJ
05-25-2012, 10:42 AM
Trevathan is going to be a serious WLB. PFF and Walterfootball did a write up on him, along with a handful of other LBs from the draft, like Lavonte David, Zach Brown, Kendricks, and Keluchey.. Yet they compared this late prospect to Lance Briggs and did a write up on him with those guys!

He fell to the 6th because he is undersized and played for Kentucky! The unknown SEC football team..

And the Broncos got Steven Johnson from the unknown Big 12 football team KU:

http://www.kuathletics.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/johnson_steven00.html

pricejj
05-25-2012, 11:04 AM
I think they are calling Warren's bluff. My guess is he'll hold out through mini-camp and show up out of shape during preseason games. Then he will probably get hurt.

Warren acts like we owe him. It isn't the Broncos fault he got lowballed by Belicheat.

cutthemdown
05-25-2012, 11:28 AM
If you cut him, you tell him we won't cut you until the day before season starts. You won't be on roster to start season, and you won't get a gauranteed deal. Or take 1 million and be done with it. Unless they really think he can play then do a deal. I was hoping he could play some.

Lestat
05-25-2012, 12:13 PM
that's a bad idea, if you do that it could strain your relationship with his agent as well as give you a bad rep around certain circles. we don't need the bad rep that kind of move would give us.

this is a situation where you either make it incentive based or convince him somehow to take the cut and point out we paid you last year, we didn't cut you this season and stood by you.

DBroncos4life
05-25-2012, 12:43 PM
Crazy idea here but, instead of cutting him how about we negotiate a deal that works for both sides

DBroncos4life
05-25-2012, 01:15 PM
Honestly if we can't work out a deal with Warren I wouldn't mind trading him for Ron Brace and Julian Edelman.

Edelman might have a hard time making that roster and he helps SP teams right away.

pricejj
05-25-2012, 01:23 PM
The Patriots will have to cut either Ron Brace, or Gerard Warren. All we have to do, is be there to pick up the pieces. Either one would beat out Vickerson for a roster position, and would be backup NT.

Garland and Siliga can battle it out for backup UT.

DBroncos4life
05-25-2012, 01:25 PM
The Patriots will have to cut either Ron Brace, or Gerard Warren. All we have to do, is be there to pick up the pieces. Either one would beat out Vickerson for a roster position.

Gerard Warren back with Denver? Hard to imagine after last time. I know it is a new staff and everything but, still hard to imagine.

Tombstone RJ
05-25-2012, 01:26 PM
lol if Pats cut Brace... I remember a few years ago people were freaking out because the Broncos didn't draft this guy...

Bmore Manning
05-25-2012, 01:26 PM
Honestly if we can't work out a deal with Warren I wouldn't mind trading him for Ron Brace and Julian Edelman.

Edelman might have a hard time making that roster and he helps SP teams right away.

I like the way your thinking.. I don't like Brace so much.. But how come when I said Vaughn and Warren for Nevis you attacked me? Wasn't Brace a 2nd round pick in 09 where Nevis is a third round pick esentially in a rookie year since he missed a lot of games with his injury?

DBroncos4life
05-25-2012, 01:30 PM
I like the way your thinking.. I don't like Brace so much.. But how come when I said Vaughn and Warren for Nevis you attacked me? Wasn't Brace a 2nd round pick in 09 where Nevis is a third round pick esentially in a rookie year since he missed a lot of games with his injury?

Wasn't it you saying that the Pats might cut Brace? I haven't heard that Indy might cut Nevis.

pricejj
05-25-2012, 01:31 PM
Ron Brace>>>>>>>>>>>>>Vickerson
Gerard Warren>>>>>>>>>>>>Vickerson

Anybody would make more impact than that guy.

Bmore Manning
05-25-2012, 01:34 PM
Wasn't it you saying that the Pats might cut Brace? I haven't heard that Indy might cut Nevis.

Yes, but you said trade for Brace using Warren and I said trade for Nevis using Vaughn and Warren.

DBroncos4life
05-25-2012, 01:36 PM
Yes, but you said trade for Brace using Warren and I said trade for Nevis using Vaughn and Warren.

So you said NE was thinking about giving up on Brace right? Is Indy ready to give up on Nevis?

pricejj
05-25-2012, 01:37 PM
The only way NE could afford Ty Warren is if we cut him. They can't fit $4M under the cap.

Bmore Manning
05-25-2012, 01:41 PM
So you said NE was thinking about giving up on Brace right? Is Indy ready to give up on Nevis?

Yes and Idk.. Nevis doesn't fit as a five tech, like Sapp in Oakland.. Could be willingness to part ways with him..

DBroncos4life
05-25-2012, 01:47 PM
Yes and Idk.. Nevis doesn't fit as a five tech, like Sapp in Oakland.. Could be willingness to part ways with him..

Let me know when there are rumors about them wanting to move him. Right now I suggested us trading Warren for two players that are on the bubble with NE.

Are you saying Sapp didn't fit in Oakland?

Tombstone RJ
05-25-2012, 01:51 PM
Let me know when there are rumors about them wanting to move him. Right now I suggested us trading Warren for two players that are on the bubble with NE.

Are you saying Sapp didn't fit in Oakland?

No way I make that trade.

Bmore Manning
05-25-2012, 01:53 PM
Let me know when there are rumors about them wanting to move him. Right now I suggested us trading Warren for two players that are on the bubble with NE.

Are you saying Sapp didn't fit in Oakland?

Sapp 100% did not fit in the 3-4 scheme in Oakland.

Lestat
05-25-2012, 01:55 PM
lol if Pats cut Brace... I remember a few years ago people were freaking out because the Broncos didn't draft this guy...

DL is always something that drives fans to crazy levels. especially when that player is a need and played well in college.

DBroncos4life
05-25-2012, 02:01 PM
No way I make that trade.

I like Julian Edelman. His value at NE is limited because of Welker.

So given the options of out right cutting Warren or trying to get someone to take his bad contract and the fact that he hasn't played in two seasons who would you trade him for?

pricejj
05-25-2012, 02:03 PM
I like Julian Edelman. His value at NE is limited because of Welker.

So given the options of out right cutting Warren or trying to get someone to take his bad contract and the fact that he hasn't played in two seasons who would you trade him for?

No offense, but Edelman would not make this team.

They have: Welker, Lloyd, Branch, Gaffney, Ochocinco, Stallworth, Gonzalez, and Edelman.

I bet Ochocinco and Stallworth get cut.

DBroncos4life
05-25-2012, 02:03 PM
Sapp 100% did not fit in the 3-4 scheme in Oakland.

Was that in 2006 when he had 10 sacks?

DBroncos4life
05-25-2012, 02:04 PM
No offense, but Edelman would not make this team.

I disagree. Stokley wouldn't make this team if we had Julian Edelman.

pricejj
05-25-2012, 02:07 PM
I disagree. Stokley wouldn't make this team if we had Julian Edelman.

I'll give that to you.

DBroncos4life
05-25-2012, 02:13 PM
When did the Raiders run a 3-4? 2004 and 2005 Warren Sapp lined up next to Ted Washington. Tyler Brayton and Bobby Hamilton played DE's. 2006 and 2007 he lined up next to Tommy Kelly and Tyler Brayton, Derrick Burgess* played DE's.

Tombstone RJ
05-25-2012, 02:19 PM
I like Julian Edelman. His value at NE is limited because of Welker.

So given the options of out right cutting Warren or trying to get someone to take his bad contract and the fact that he hasn't played in two seasons who would you trade him for?

I wouldn't trade him, I would see if he's willing to go with an incentive laden contract with a base guarantee.

DBroncos4life
05-25-2012, 02:21 PM
I wouldn't trade him, I would see if he's willing to go with an incentive laden contract with a base guarantee.

So basicly you didn't read posts 350 or 351 then.

pricejj
05-25-2012, 02:24 PM
...

Would be a good trade in theory...but I wouldn't be giving the AFC Champs another starter on Defense. No freaking way. All they need is a good UT.

Of course, in the end, they will probably get him anyway. And we will, once again, be stuck with nothing.

Tombstone RJ
05-25-2012, 02:27 PM
So basicly you didn't read posts 350 or 351 then.

I've been saying that the Broncos should just pay him, the Broncos have the money so why not just pay the guy. If the Broncos were in cap hell then maybe it's different but if he's healthy he could be a huge help to this defensive line.

Bmore Manning
05-25-2012, 02:44 PM
When did the Raiders run a 3-4? 2004 and 2005 Warren Sapp lined up next to Ted Washington. Tyler Brayton and Bobby Hamilton played DE's. 2006 and 2007 he lined up next to Tommy Kelly and Tyler Brayton, Derrick Burgess* played DE's.

In 04 and 05 they played in the 3-4.
In 2006 they changed schemes.
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/06/guide-to-n-f-l-defenses-part-1/

Lestat
05-25-2012, 02:49 PM
I've been saying that the Broncos should just pay him, the Broncos have the money so why not just pay the guy. If the Broncos were in cap hell then maybe it's different but if he's healthy he could be a huge help to this defensive line.

this is why i don't get the issue of needing him to restructure. he's not killing our cap, the budget can't have been exceeded otherwise we wouldn't have signed Florence.

it'd be different if we were trying to work out a long term deal with him or he wasn't 100% and wanted him to take a incentive laden deal.

baja
05-25-2012, 03:13 PM
this is why i don't get the issue of needing him to restructure. he's not killing our cap, the budget can't have been exceeded otherwise we wouldn't have signed Florence.

it'd be different if we were trying to work out a long term deal with him or he wasn't 100% and wanted him to take a incentive laden deal.

Why not make it incentive laden, if he is healthy than everyone is happy. He hasn't played for 2 seasons he needs to give give some insurances to the Broncos. Hell Manning did why can't Warren.

Bronco Rob
05-26-2012, 11:36 AM
Ty Warren and Matt Prater: Different deals

By Mike Klis Posted May 25, 2012, 12:09 pm MT


Warren made $3.157 million from New England in 2010 without playing a down because of a bum hip.
He made $4 million from the Broncos in 2011 without playing a down because of torn triceps.

As Dire Straits might say, that’s money ($7.157 million) for nothing.

Warren is resisting the Broncos’ proposal to cut his salary from a non-guaranteed $4 million in 2012 to somewhere in the $1 million to $1.5 million range. Let’s say Warren comes back for, oh, $1.343 million. That’s still $8.5 million for one season of play.



http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2012/05/25/ty-warren/13599/

houghtam
05-26-2012, 11:40 AM
Why not make it incentive laden, if he is healthy than everyone is happy. He hasn't played for 2 seasons he needs to give give some insurances to the Broncos. Hell Manning did why can't Warren.

Manning wasn't currently under contract?

baja
05-26-2012, 12:35 PM
Manning wasn't currently under contract?

I don't understand your comment.

Manning signed a contract that let's the Broncos off the hook if he can't play due to his current injury.

houghtam
05-26-2012, 01:12 PM
I don't understand your comment.

Manning signed a contract that let's the Broncos off the hook if he can't play due to his current injury.

But Manning wasn't already under contract. Warren is. He didn't put a gun to the Broncos head to sign him while he was injured. He has every right to refuse to restructure. The Broncos also have every right to cut him. Other posters have pointed out that if the Broncos are going to offer him $1 million or so, he can likely receive that from any other team in the NFL.

If I were Warren, I'd tell the Broncos to pay me or cut me. At his age, it's probably the best choice anyhow. IMO he has a big advantage over the team on this matter.

baja
05-26-2012, 01:32 PM
But Manning wasn't already under contract. Warren is. He didn't put a gun to the Broncos head to sign him while he was injured. He has every right to refuse to restructure. The Broncos also have every right to cut him. Other posters have pointed out that if the Broncos are going to offer him $1 million or so, he can likely receive that from any other team in the NFL.

If I were Warren, I'd tell the Broncos to pay me or cut me. At his age, it's probably the best choice anyhow. IMO he has a big advantage over the team on this matter.

The Manning reference was to point out Manning, the most sought after free agent in history, was willing to give a health guarantee therefore it seems Warren, who just missed two seasons that he was paid handsomely for should see his way to restructure his contract for the same money but with some health guarantees in the form of incentives.

kappys
05-26-2012, 02:05 PM
But Manning wasn't already under contract. Warren is. He didn't put a gun to the Broncos head to sign him while he was injured. He has every right to refuse to restructure. The Broncos also have every right to cut him. Other posters have pointed out that if the Broncos are going to offer him $1 million or so, he can likely receive that from any other team in the NFL.

If I were Warren, I'd tell the Broncos to pay me or cut me. At his age, it's probably the best choice anyhow. IMO he has a big advantage over the team on this matter.

I think the Broncs will have to pay a little above market rate - probably 2 million for Ty which is what I'd guess he's holding out for. I think the Broncos are just waiting for the June 1st cuts to see if any decent DT's are let loose before making a final offer.

Shananahan
05-26-2012, 02:21 PM
But Manning wasn't already under contract. Warren is. He didn't put a gun to the Broncos head to sign him while he was injured.
Warren wasn't injured when Denver signed him.

houghtam
05-26-2012, 02:52 PM
Warren wasn't injured when Denver signed him.

Oh okay, excuse me. Ty Warren didn't put a gun to the Broncos head to sign him when he had missed the entire season prior due to injury. It's not his fault the Broncos didn't protect themselves in the original contract to the degree they would have preferred in hindsight. If they got injury guarantees from Manning, great for them, but this is Warren's contract, and if he wants to play it out at his negotiated price or be cut, it's entirely up to him.

SoCalBronco
05-26-2012, 04:03 PM
I would rather just keep him at his price even if its somewhat unjustified. We're still well below the cap, so it hardly prejudices the team financially if he refuses a restructure. From what I understand, he was working quite hard at rehab and physical preparation before they came to him to try and get some savings and then he got pissed and stopped. Just keep him happy for now...I get that he got paid last year for not contributing anything, but the DT position is still precarious in my opinion (even with the MethWolf) and we're like at least 10m under, so just leave him alone at this point. Get him back to being happy and working hard to be ready to play...and play well, that's the key at this point. After the season is over, we can reassess it again.

bowtown
05-26-2012, 04:15 PM
I would rather just keep him at his price even if its somewhat unjustified. We're still well below the cap, so it hardly prejudices the team financially if he refuses a restructure. From what I understand, he was working quite hard at rehab and physical preparation before they came to him to try and get some savings and then he got pissed and stopped. Just keep him happy for now...I get that he got paid last year for not contributing anything, but the DT position is still precarious in my opinion (even with the MethWolf) and we're like at least 10m under, so just leave him alone at this point. Get him back to being happy and working hard to be ready to play...and play well, that's the key at this point. After the season is over, we can reassess it again.

Totally agree.

houghtam
05-26-2012, 04:43 PM
I would rather just keep him at his price even if its somewhat unjustified. We're still well below the cap, so it hardly prejudices the team financially if he refuses a restructure. From what I understand, he was working quite hard at rehab and physical preparation before they came to him to try and get some savings and then he got pissed and stopped. Just keep him happy for now...I get that he got paid last year for not contributing anything, but the DT position is still precarious in my opinion (even with the MethWolf) and we're like at least 10m under, so just leave him alone at this point. Get him back to being happy and working hard to be ready to play...and play well, that's the key at this point. After the season is over, we can reassess it again.

Thirded.

The DL will need all the help it can get. Now is not the time to get into a pissing match with someone who could end up being a huge contributor.

If Warren doesn't prove he's healthy or back to form, he's much more likely to restructure, or we're less likely to worry about dropping him. If he has a good season here, it will likely mean our team had a good season as well, and he'll be more likely to come back.

It's win-win (win) to just leave things be.

lonestar
05-26-2012, 05:58 PM
I would rather just keep him at his price even if its somewhat unjustified. We're still well below the cap, so it hardly prejudices the team financially if he refuses a restructure. From what I understand, he was working quite hard at rehab and physical preparation before they came to him to try and get some savings and then he got pissed and stopped. Just keep him happy for now...I get that he got paid last year for not contributing anything, but the DT position is still precarious in my opinion (even with the MethWolf) and we're like at least 10m under, so just leave him alone at this point. Get him back to being happy and working hard to be ready to play...and play well, that's the key at this point. After the season is over, we can reassess it again.

NO offense but he is a greedy pittard nothing more or less .. paying him the million or 4 million is not going to make him anything less than the ass clown he is....

IMO he is not going to be happy in any form other than to get hurt again and still get his 4 mil while on IR..

I'd rather not have him on the team if he will not work for a reduced guarantee..

This is coming from someone who has been uber critical of our FO for not having decent DT for the last decade..

lonestar
05-26-2012, 06:00 PM
Thirded.

The DL will need all the help it can get. Now is not the time to get into a pissing match with someone who could end up being a huge contributor.

If Warren doesn't prove he's healthy or back to form, he's much more likely to restructure, or we're less likely to worry about dropping him. If he has a good season here, it will likely mean our team had a good season as well, and he'll be more likely to come back.

It's win-win (win) to just leave things be.

I'm not in favor of paying for a could..

IMO they are going to cut him..

lots of folks have found out the hard way do not screw with #7..

I suspect he is the next one to figure it out..

this ass clown is not a TEAM player..

houghtam
05-26-2012, 06:04 PM
I'm not in favor of paying for a could..

IMO they are going to cut him..

lots of folks have found out the hard way do not screw with #7..

I suspect he is the next one to figure it out..

this ass clown is not a TEAM player..

Figure what out? That they're going to release him so another team will give him a better contract than he'd get from us if he restructured? Yeah, that will show him! IMO Warren holds all the cards here. The Broncos need him more than he needs the Broncos.

DBroncos4life
05-26-2012, 06:29 PM
Figure what out? That they're going to release him so another team will give him a better contract than he'd get from us if he restructured? Yeah, that will show him! IMO Warren holds all the cards here. The Broncos need him more than he needs the Broncos.

Can't Denver deactivate him like Bucs did with Keyshawn? Yeah he gets paid but, a third year out of football would all but end his career....whatever he has left now.

lonestar
05-26-2012, 06:38 PM
Figure what out? That they're going to release him so another team will give him a better contract than he'd get from us if he restructured? Yeah, that will show him! IMO Warren holds all the cards here. The Broncos need him more than he needs the Broncos.

The broncos need team players not a mercenary that just wants money..

yes they signed him last year but he got a boo-boo just like the previous year..

Now in the back of Johns mind is does he really want to play or is he just in it for the money?

Did he get injured last year because he was not in condition to play?

Do we need him sure, but do we REALLY need him he is gone one way or the other after this year..

is a one year rental really worth 4 mil?

I believe they will play hard ball with him and frankly I suspect the other TEAM players will appreciate that..

Knowing that the DUKE is in charge now..

baja
05-26-2012, 06:38 PM
Can't Denver deactivate him like Bucs did with Keyshawn? Yeah he gets paid but, a third year out of football would all but end his career....whatever he has left now.

Get real.

lonestar
05-26-2012, 06:39 PM
Can't Denver deactivate him like Bucs did with Keyshawn? Yeah he gets paid but, a third year out of football would all but end his career....whatever he has left now.

if they are playing hard ball with him. As it sounds like they are why would they pay him to sit out? to teach him a lesson?

DBroncos4life
05-26-2012, 06:40 PM
Get real.

Ha! Coming from a dude that thinks the world is ending in December this is ****ing rich!

baja
05-26-2012, 06:48 PM
Ha! Coming from a dude that thinks the world is ending in December this is ****ing rich!

I never said that. Please show we where I said the world would end.

Shananahan
05-26-2012, 07:17 PM
Can't Denver deactivate him like Bucs did with Keyshawn? Yeah he gets paid but, a third year out of football would all but end his career....whatever he has left now.
This would be the funniest thing ever.

DBroncos4life
05-26-2012, 07:25 PM
This would be the funniest thing ever.

What does the new CBA allow as far as punishments?

Broncobiv
05-26-2012, 07:41 PM
What does the new CBA allow as far as punishments?

Duct tape him naked to the flag pole.

DBroncos4life
05-26-2012, 07:43 PM
Duct tape him naked to the flag pole.

You can stop a car from moving if you duct tape it to a pole so I would imagine it would hold Warren up.

pricejj
05-26-2012, 07:51 PM
Thirded.

fourthded

dizz
05-26-2012, 09:10 PM
This is probably why NE let him go ... he had the year off so he ought to cut us a deal

s0phr0syne
05-27-2012, 08:14 AM
Great fluff article about Vickerson.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20720236/denver-broncos-have-starting-jobs-at-defensive-tackle

The Broncos also asked Vickerson to take a cut in pay, and Vickerson agreed. Instead of making $2.25 million this year, Vickerson is scheduled to make $1.2 million.

"You have to use your leverage when you have your leverage," Vickerson said. "I was coming off a year of IR. I didn't do nothing last year. I want to earn my money, and if that means I have to earn it again and show, 'Hey I am worth it,' then I'll get it next year or get a long-term deal sooner rather than later. A job is a job. I'd rather take a pay cut and have a job, than not take a pay cut and not have a job and have my wife and kids looking at me like, 'What are we going to do?' You have to be smart about the situation."



...Vickerson weighed in at 324 pounds last week, a nearly 50-pound increase from last fall
...
Vickerson said he dropped his body fat to about 24 percent, down from 37 to 40 percent a year ago, even though at the time he looked skinnier. He trained in Miami, Houston and Denver this spring and said he is working closely with the Broncos' nutritionist to stick to a high-protein, high-carbohydrate diet.

g6matty
05-27-2012, 08:25 AM
now we know whos playing NT ^

Bmore Manning
05-27-2012, 08:36 AM
50 pounds to 324! That's a serious increase, I hope he's working with some athleticism still and can carry the weight well. I guess that's why Denver feels good about their DTs.. Vick put the weight back on, they added Bannan a proven run defender and they are high on Siliga. So that leaves Wolfe, Garland, Jackson as UTs. So do they carry 6 DTs.. With the idea Jackson can play DE? And if Warren sticks then what?

elsid13
05-27-2012, 08:38 AM
They need to get this figured out. Wouldn't be surprised if they traded for a veteran DT

Bigdawg26
05-27-2012, 08:44 AM
50 pounds to 324! That's a serious increase, I hope he's working with some athleticism still and can carry the weight well. I guess that's why Denver feels good about their DTs.. Vick put the weight back on, they added Bannan a proven run defender and they are high on Siliga. So that leaves Wolfe, Garland, Jackson as UTs. So do they carry 6 DTs.. With the idea Jackson can play DE? And if Warren sticks then what?

He carried the weight pretty well his first year here. I think he could be a decent rotational NT with Bannan if Warren gets cut. But I think he could be a good rotational UT with Wolfe at that weight.

s0phr0syne
05-27-2012, 08:47 AM
With the physical work Vickerson has put in this offseason, it at least sounds like he's dialed in and will have a good season. I thought he was at least an average to at time above average DT in his previous work. If he's grinding it out for a nice long term contract, Denver may be able to get a very productive year out of him.

g6matty
05-27-2012, 09:18 AM
im gonna do some in epth research to see if i can find a picture of vick at OTAs too see how he is carrying the weight

Bmore Manning
05-27-2012, 09:47 AM
He carried the weight pretty well his first year here. I think he could be a decent rotational NT with Bannan if Warren gets cut. But I think he could be a good rotational UT with Wolfe at that weight.

You see him as a run defending UT right? I would be more than fine with that.. But not as a starter expected to contribute to the pass rush from UT.

Bmore Manning
05-27-2012, 09:53 AM
They need to get this figured out. Wouldn't be surprised if they traded for a veteran DT

Wouldn't surprise me either.. That's why I suggested trading Ty Warren or at least throwing him in as part of the package.. Maybe add Mays (if Irving comes on strong) or DJ to that package.

baja
05-27-2012, 10:11 AM
Wouldn't surprise me either.. That's why I suggested trading Ty Warren or at least throwing him in as part of the package.. Maybe add Mays (if Irving comes on strong) or DJ to that package.


Because teams are standing in line to trade for drunks, has beens and slow middle linebackers

houghtam
05-27-2012, 10:35 AM
Because teams are standing in line to trade for drunks, has beens and slow middle linebackers

LOL rep.

Shananahan
05-27-2012, 10:46 AM
Is it physically possible to naturally gain 50 pounds in a year while dropping your body fat 15%?

I'm having a very hard time believing that.

Shananahan
05-27-2012, 10:47 AM
I suggested trading Ty Warren or at least throwing him in as part of the package.. Maybe add Mays (if Irving comes on strong) or DJ to that package.
You dream big, Bmore Manning.

DenverBrit
05-27-2012, 11:07 AM
Is it physically possible to naturally gain 50 pounds in a year while dropping your body fat 15%?

I'm having a very hard time believing that.

It would be quite the achievement, but apparently possible if he stuck to a high-protein, high-carbohydrate diet. and worked his ass off.

I'm having difficulty imagining he was 50 lighter and in football shape, yet had body fat around 40%.

With that fat%, most would waddle up to the buffet and watch the game.

Gcver2ver3
05-27-2012, 11:08 AM
Great fluff article about Vickerson.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20720236/denver-broncos-have-starting-jobs-at-defensive-tackle

Huh?...

He added 50 lbs to his weight but dropped from 40% body fat to 24%?...

Am i reading that right?...

Gcver2ver3
05-27-2012, 11:12 AM
Is it physically possible to naturally gain 50 pounds in a year while dropping your body fat 15%?

I'm having a very hard time believing that.

Ok i guess i wasnt the only one that read it that way...

Man-Goblin
05-27-2012, 11:13 AM
Huh?...

He added 50 lbs to his weight but dropped from 40% body fat to 24%?...

Am i reading that right?...

A more ridiculouser thing I will not read all day.

chaz
05-27-2012, 11:45 AM
Is it physically possible to naturally gain 50 pounds in a year while dropping your body fat 15%?

I'm having a very hard time believing that.

While an oversimplification, the decreased bf% equates to losing about 30 lbs of fat, while he increased his total weight by 50 lbs.

So he's saying he added 80 lbs of lean mass in less than year?

baja
05-27-2012, 12:07 PM
While an oversimplification, the decreased bf% equates to losing about 30 lbs of fat, while he increased his total weight by 50 lbs.

So he's saying he added 80 lbs of lean mass in less than year?

Yes he is carrying a midget everywhere he goes.

gyldenlove
05-27-2012, 01:26 PM
What does the new CBA allow as far as punishments?

We can keep him out of games and make him do special practice, but he has a right to access to team facilities and we can't withhold his salary or any bonuses due to him.

razorwire77
05-27-2012, 02:28 PM
Is it physically possible to naturally gain 50 pounds in a year while dropping your body fat 15%?

I'm having a very hard time believing that.

No. Not possible. Even on a 300 pound professional athlete.

I could buy that he could certainly put 50 pounds on his frame and lower his body fat percentage, which in itself would be incredible, but not that drastic a cut. Not even if he was injecting every substance known to man into his system.

lonestar
05-27-2012, 03:03 PM
I'm guessing most folks do not realize that muscle is way more denser than fat is and while they weigh the same muscle mass takes a lot a lot less space..

PErhaps there are some errors in the reporting, but if he did put on that much lean muscle tissue that can only be a good thing..

Atwater His Ass
05-27-2012, 03:11 PM
I'm guessing most folks do not realize that muscle is way more denser than fat is and while they weigh the same muscle mass takes a lot a lot less space..

PErhaps there are some errors in the reporting, but if he did put on that much lean muscle tissue that can only be a good thing..

It's not physically possible to do what is described in the article. For anyone. Ever. In the history of mankind.

lonestar
05-27-2012, 03:25 PM
It's not physically possible to do what is described in the article. For anyone. Ever. In the history of mankind.

and who is your source for that remark?

Shananahan
05-27-2012, 05:08 PM
Newsflash: lonestar has never lifted weights.

pricejj
05-27-2012, 05:46 PM
Great fluff article about Vickerson.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20720236/denver-broncos-have-starting-jobs-at-defensive-tackle

Oh yeah baby, Big Vick back up to 324 lbs....backup Nt.

Ty Warren doesn't have a place on this team anymore. There is no reason the Broncos would pay more than $1.5M for a back up UT.

RaiderH8r
05-27-2012, 06:18 PM
Oh yeah baby, Big Vick back up to 324 lbs....backup Nt.

Ty Warren doesn't have a place on this team anymore. There is no reason the Broncos would pay more than $1.5M for a back up UT.

We still need depth just in case Vick has been hitting the cream and the clear.

sgbfan
05-27-2012, 06:20 PM
I am just glad that he isn't 275 any more. He was way too small last year. I don't know why he can't just stick at 305-310 and leave it at that though.

dizz
05-28-2012, 03:31 AM
What does the new CBA allow as far as punishments?

Only one ball now

Traveler
05-28-2012, 04:16 AM
Oh yeah baby, Big Vick back up to 324 lbs....backup Nt.

Ty Warren doesn't have a place on this team anymore. There is no reason the Broncos would pay more than $1.5M for a back up UT.

My guess is you are probably right about Warren.

Bronco Rob
05-31-2012, 06:09 AM
Outside of maybe Utah and the Broncos' unofficial offseason depth chart, Sealver Siliga is relatively unknown.
Get to know the name.

At the Broncos' organized team activity (OTA) practice session Wednesday, Siliga was paired with Justin Bannan as the starting defensive tackles.

"Just learning from Justin Bannan next to me. Kevin Vickerson," Siliga said. "I'm seeing the tempo with the ones, seeing how they roll. It's been a good experience so far."

Raise your hand if you knew Siliga spent the bulk of last season on the Broncos' practice squad. Many teams had Siliga with a mid-round draft grade last year, but he fell off the board. The Broncos tried to sign him as an undrafted free agent, but he chose San Francisco. Cut by the 49ers late in training camp, Siliga was signed to the Broncos' practice squad during their bye week in October. Late last season, Buffalo tried to sign Siliga to its 53-man roster, but after playing his college ball at the University of Utah, he felt more comfortable in Denver.

"Last year, the way things worked out for me, it wasn't what I expected," Siliga said. "But when I came to Denver, I had it in my mind-set that I was going to learn from the older guys. All I did last year was watch these older guys. See how they went about their business."

Although Siliga is listed at 307 pounds, he is really in the 330- to 340-pound range. With veteran Ty Warren and top-draft pick Derek Wolfe not participating in OTAs, Siliga has his chance.

"He's stout, he's strong and he's good on the inside," Broncos coach John Fox said. "We had him last year, and I liked the guy. He's been impressive."

Running back reps. Starting running back Willis McGahee didn't attend the Broncos' OTA Wednesday.










http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20746617/broncos-defensive-tackle-sealver-siliga-making-most-his

Bmore Manning
05-31-2012, 06:14 AM
Siliga and Vick as the NTs
Bannan (Run Down) and Wolfe UTs

Bronco Rob
05-31-2012, 06:19 AM
Broncos' decisions on Warren, Thomas should come in next few weeks



Today's question about the Broncos comes from Jim Dillon in Copley, Ohio:

Q: Do you think while the Broncos are waiting on a decision about Ty Warren, they should bump up an offer to Marcus Thomas? I think Thomas can continue to help them — he's young, been with the Broncos since 2007, clearly wants to be here and will be cheaper than an aging Warren, who hasn't played since '09. Your thoughts?

A: For the Broncos, they have asked Warren to take a pay cut from the $4 million he's due this season. Because of injuries, he has not played in a game since 2009, including spending all of last season, his first in Denver, on injured reserve.

Warren, like most employees, doesn't want to voluntarily jump at a decrease in his pay. And because of that he has not attended any of the Broncos' offseason work thus far, which is still voluntary though participation is certainly expected.

However, things change next month when the Broncos hold a mandatory, three-day minicamp (June 12-14). Players who do not attend that minicamp can be fined daily, and if Warren doesn't show at that point, the team may consider moving on without him if he still isn't interested in redoing his deal.

The Broncos would like to have Warren back — he's always been a productive, high-character player — but not under his current deal.




http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20744368/broncos-decisions-warren-thomas-should-come-next-few

TheReverend
05-31-2012, 06:23 AM
and who is your source for that remark?

Any biological science. Ever. In the history of mankind.

BroncoBuff
05-31-2012, 08:31 AM
Calm down, I'll settle this.

Which article?

Hulamau
05-31-2012, 09:06 AM
Outside of maybe Utah and the Broncos' unofficial offseason depth chart, Sealver Siliga is relatively unknown.
Get to know the name.

At the Broncos' organized team activity (OTA) practice session Wednesday, Siliga was paired with Justin Bannan as the starting defensive tackles.

"Just learning from Justin Bannan next to me. Kevin Vickerson," Siliga said. "I'm seeing the tempo with the ones, seeing how they roll. It's been a good experience so far."

Raise your hand if you knew Siliga spent the bulk of last season on the Broncos' practice squad. Many teams had Siliga with a mid-round draft grade last year, but he fell off the board. The Broncos tried to sign him as an undrafted free agent, but he chose San Francisco. Cut by the 49ers late in training camp, Siliga was signed to the Broncos' practice squad during their bye week in October. Late last season, Buffalo tried to sign Siliga to its 53-man roster, but after playing his college ball at the University of Utah, he felt more comfortable in Denver.

"Last year, the way things worked out for me, it wasn't what I expected," Siliga said. "But when I came to Denver, I had it in my mind-set that I was going to learn from the older guys. All I did last year was watch these older guys. See how they went about their business."

Although Siliga is listed at 307 pounds, he is really in the 330- to 340-pound range. With veteran Ty Warren and top-draft pick Derek Wolfe not participating in OTAs, Siliga has his chance.

"He's stout, he's strong and he's good on the inside," Broncos coach John Fox said. "We had him last year, and I liked the guy. He's been impressive."

Running back reps. Starting running back Willis McGahee didn't attend the Broncos' OTA Wednesday.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20746617/broncos-defensive-tackle-sealver-siliga-making-most-his

Every year a number of unknown UFA's or low round draft picks emerge as stud starters for years around the league. Perhaps Siliga is one of those guys ready to make his mark as a household name...? Sounds like he has the makings for it and he could be one of several reasons why Elway said the Dline was a lot better off in their view than the general opinion of the talking heads?

We'll see what he can do soon enough, would be great if he turns into a solid 10 year starter at NT ....

DBroncos4life
05-31-2012, 09:12 AM
How hard is it to list a player at his correct size?

gyldenlove
05-31-2012, 09:18 AM
It's not physically possible to do what is described in the article. For anyone. Ever. In the history of mankind.

A toddler could do it with the relative differences pretty easy, but an adult couldn't unless you live on a diet of protein and steroids.

gyldenlove
05-31-2012, 09:19 AM
How hard is it to list a player at his correct size?

Almost impossible, I am guessing that during 2 a day practices the weight of someone like Siliga could fluctuate by a full 10 pounds during a single day.

Drek
05-31-2012, 09:20 AM
How hard is it to list a player at his correct size?

Its not, but what's the benefit?

How many guys play their entire careers at their listed weights from the combine, no matter how much they might shift away from that?

I personally doubt Vickerson's numbers on both end of the spectrum. I doubt he ever got down to 275 last year, probably more like 295-300. I doubt he's back up to nearly 330 now, probably more like 310-315. Lot of exaggeration from last year, coupled with exaggeration this year, has resulted in a completely illogical physical "shift".

DBroncos4life
05-31-2012, 09:26 AM
Almost impossible, I am guessing that during 2 a day practices the weight of someone like Siliga could fluctuate by a full 10 pounds during a single day.

I get that. Still they can get closer to his real weight then 307 on the team page pretty easy. Maybe not now that Xanders is gone.

DBroncos4life
05-31-2012, 09:30 AM
Its not, but what's the benefit?

How many guys play their entire careers at their listed weights from the combine, no matter how much they might shift away from that?

I personally doubt Vickerson's numbers on both end of the spectrum. I doubt he ever got down to 275 last year, probably more like 295-300. I doubt:) he's back up to nearly 330 now, probably more like 310-315. Lot of exaggeration from last year, coupled with exaggeration this year, has resulted in a completely illogical physical "shift".

Really so when they post an article like they did about Vickerson gaining an impossible weight posters don't go all nuts about it.

pricejj
05-31-2012, 09:36 AM
Vickerson has gained an additional 15 lbs. since the article was released.

Lestat
05-31-2012, 09:36 AM
one of the bigger issues with player size is that it fluctuates. a lot of players start out at one weight and then end up at another during the season. some lose a ton of weight from start to finish, others maintain exactly and others gain.

DBroncos4life
05-31-2012, 09:41 AM
one of the bigger issues with player size is that it fluctuates. a lot of players start out at one weight and then end up at another during the season. some lose a ton of weight from start to finish, others maintain exactly and others gain.

Portis used to bulk up quite a bit and still claimed he was under 200 pounds by the end of the season.

Lestat
05-31-2012, 09:48 AM
Portis used to bulk up quite a bit and still claimed he was under 200 pounds by the end of the season.

yeah i know at one point in Denver has was as big as his Redskin playing weight of 212 and he ended up weighing 195 at the end of the season. he just couldn't keep it on and in almost every case he was listed as 205.

gyldenlove
05-31-2012, 10:01 AM
yeah i know at one point in Denver has was as big as his Redskin playing weight of 212 and he ended up weighing 195 at the end of the season. he just couldn't keep it on and in almost every case he was listed as 205.

He has the beetus!

Beantown Bronco
05-31-2012, 10:05 AM
Vickerson has gained an additional 15 lbs. since the article was released.

And lost another 1% of his body fat.

TheReverend
05-31-2012, 10:11 AM
Rare insider (Empire Orange style) footage of Vickerson checking in to Dove Valley:
































http://elitegalleryz.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/ronnie-coleman-31.jpg

Shananahan
05-31-2012, 11:05 AM
He's got ass abs.

Very impressive.

BroncoBuff
05-31-2012, 01:07 PM
The Broncos’ roster currently constructed, they have a bevy of “3-technique” tackle candidates _ Wolfe, Justin Bannan, Kevin Vickerson, Mitch Unrein, Sealver Siliga, Jeremy Jarmon, Ben Garland and Ty Warren.

That leaves the 300-pound Warren as the most logical candidate at nose tackle. It would make sense for the Broncos to take a run at Aubrayo Franklin, if for no other reason than he is listed at 317 pounds.

Anybody notice the elephant-in-the-room possibility that maybe - just maybe - having EIGHT 3-techniques and no apparent NTs means they're not going with the 3-technique/1-technique front? That would explain a lot, not just the 8-0 discrepancy but also their frustrating indifference toward signing the wide-bodies.

Bmore Manning
05-31-2012, 01:25 PM
Anybody notice the elephant-in-the-room possibility that maybe - just maybe - having EIGHT 3-techniques and no apparent NTs means they're not going with the 3-technique/1-technique front? That would explain a lot, not just the 8-0 discrepancy but also their frustrating indifference toward signing the wide-bodies.

There aren't eight 3Techs on the roster..

Wolfe and Garland is about it.. With Ayers and Jackson able to kick inside

Bannan, Vick, Siliga are run defenders

Warren if brought back is a tweener..
That's 3 NTs and 3 UTs

BroncoBuff
05-31-2012, 01:50 PM
I was going with the author's list there.

But then again he thinks it "makes sense" to sign Abreyu Franklin because there's a "317" after his name :oyvey:

TonyR
05-31-2012, 04:20 PM
Outside of maybe Utah and the Broncos' unofficial offseason depth chart, Sealver Siliga is relatively unknown.
Get to know the name.

At the Broncos' organized team activity (OTA) practice session Wednesday, Siliga was paired with Justin Bannan as the starting defensive tackles.

"Just learning from Justin Bannan next to me. Kevin Vickerson," Siliga said. "I'm seeing the tempo with the ones, seeing how they roll. It's been a good experience so far."

Raise your hand if you knew Siliga spent the bulk of last season on the Broncos' practice squad. Many teams had Siliga with a mid-round draft grade last year, but he fell off the board. The Broncos tried to sign him as an undrafted free agent, but he chose San Francisco. Cut by the 49ers late in training camp, Siliga was signed to the Broncos' practice squad during their bye week in October. Late last season, Buffalo tried to sign Siliga to its 53-man roster, but after playing his college ball at the University of Utah, he felt more comfortable in Denver.

"Last year, the way things worked out for me, it wasn't what I expected," Siliga said. "But when I came to Denver, I had it in my mind-set that I was going to learn from the older guys. All I did last year was watch these older guys. See how they went about their business."

Although Siliga is listed at 307 pounds, he is really in the 330- to 340-pound range. With veteran Ty Warren and top-draft pick Derek Wolfe not participating in OTAs, Siliga has his chance.

"He's stout, he's strong and he's good on the inside," Broncos coach John Fox said. "We had him last year, and I liked the guy. He's been impressive."

Running back reps. Starting running back Willis McGahee didn't attend the Broncos' OTA Wednesday.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20746617/broncos-defensive-tackle-sealver-siliga-making-most-his

I bet a lot of people missed the parts bolded above.

lonestar
05-31-2012, 08:42 PM
I'm guessing that the only folks worried about weights listed on web sites or in game day programs are fans..

WTFudge does it matter if they are playing good to great ball..

if a guy are 295 can play nose tackle and make the pro bowl. who cares..

:focus:

ty warren will probably not make the team this year UNLESS he cuts his salary..

DENVERDUI55
05-31-2012, 08:53 PM
Will someone get a picture of siliga with his shirt off so pricejj can tell us what he weighs.

pricejj
06-01-2012, 12:26 AM
Will someone get a picture of siliga with his shirt off so pricejj can tell us what he weighs.

Hey DDUI55, here's a pic of Siliga...although it might be Vickerson, it's tough to tell from the back.

Bmore Manning
06-01-2012, 05:29 AM
Hey DDUI55, here's a pic of Siliga...although it might be Vickerson, it's tough to tell from the back.

That's clearly newly drafted Ronnie "Mileman" Hillman

CEH
06-01-2012, 05:43 AM
For the last 3 months I never read so many times the words UT or NT. Just use DT becuase that is who is on the team. Someone will play one DT and someone will play the other DT. We will not line up 10 becuase we don't have a NT. Like Dawkins said last night we are about to see the real offensive talent of the Denver Broncos and if Plan A works the DTs will be a non issue. Not that we don't need the DTs but if Denver fails Plan A will be the real issue surrounding EF not the DTs.

Bronco Rob
06-01-2012, 07:29 AM
DTs BEEFING UP

While it remains uncertain who will man the bulk of the snaps at defensive tackle this season, one thing is clear: Del Rio wants his tackles to be hefty enough to anchor the interior of the defensive line.

"We want some size in there," Del Rio said. "I like big D tackles."

Defensive tackle Kevin Vickerson appears to have taken that advice to heart.

"Vickerson has added some good weight," Del Rio said. "It should help him. One of the conversations early that we had was, 'Hey, what do you want me to weigh?' I said, 'Well, the guy I looked at on film last year looked like a defensive end that was moved in there. It was a narrow body. We'd like to see a large rear end in there.' So he's made it a little bigger (laughs). We're trying to make sure it's good weight he's adding. He's working hard in the weight room and getting himself into shape."





http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Notebook-Del-Rio-Fox-Building-Our-Defense/7a475d84-f20f-4039-9ade-7565620a3986

Lestat
06-01-2012, 07:39 AM
a leopard doesn't change his spots. i knew eventually he was going to get him some cloggers up the middle and force you to bounce it outside.

alkemical
06-01-2012, 07:55 AM
They want a whole DL of 300lbs/ers.

Bigdawg26
06-01-2012, 08:17 AM
DTs BEEFING UP

While it remains uncertain who will man the bulk of the snaps at defensive tackle this season, one thing is clear: Del Rio wants his tackles to be hefty enough to anchor the interior of the defensive line.

"We want some size in there," Del Rio said. "I like big D tackles."

Defensive tackle Kevin Vickerson appears to have taken that advice to heart.

"Vickerson has added some good weight," Del Rio said. "It should help him. One of the conversations early that we had was, 'Hey, what do you want me to weigh?' I said, 'Well, the guy I looked at on film last year looked like a defensive end that was moved in there. It was a narrow body. We'd like to see a large rear end in there.' So he's made it a little bigger (laughs). We're trying to make sure it's good weight he's adding. He's working hard in the weight room and getting himself into shape."





http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Notebook-Del-Rio-Fox-Building-Our-Defense/7a475d84-f20f-4039-9ade-7565620a3986

It that why Vickerson and Bannan are only DT's 310+! Warren and Wolfe (who he wants to play at DE) are just about 300. I'm really wondering if Del Rio really has a say in this defense!

Bronco Rob
06-01-2012, 08:29 AM
It that why Vickerson and Bannan are only DT's 310+! Warren and Wolfe (who he wants to play at DE) are just about 300. I'm really wondering if Del Rio really has a say in this defense!


They may have a symbiotic relationship when it comes to the defense....


Under Fox and Del Rio, a Panthers defense that surrendered a league-worst 371 yards per game during a 1-15 2001 season transformed into a formidable unit. That season, NFL Rookie of the Year Julius Peppers -- who got to the quarterback 12 times in 12 games -- was one of five Panthers to tally at least five sacks as Carolina finished second in the league with 52 quarterback takedowns. The Panthers' 2002 D also gave up the second-fewest yards in the NFL and allowed less than 19 points per game after surrendering nearly 26 points per game the previous season.



After reading that....I'll take it!

TheReverend
06-01-2012, 08:33 AM
Anybody notice the elephant-in-the-room possibility that maybe - just maybe - having EIGHT 3-techniques and no apparent NTs means they're not going with the 3-technique/1-technique front? That would explain a lot, not just the 8-0 discrepancy but also their frustrating indifference toward signing the wide-bodies.

No.

They'll go with that front.

They'll just play the edges the entire time.

Like I've been saying.

For over a year now.

And just like they did last year.

Bmore Manning
06-01-2012, 08:55 AM
It that why Vickerson and Bannan are only DT's 310+! Warren and Wolfe (who he wants to play at DE) are just about 300. I'm really wondering if Del Rio really has a say in this defense!

Siliga is around 340

Bronco Rob
06-01-2012, 09:14 AM
I’ve asked around at Dove Valley if Ty Warren is choosing not to go to OTAs or if the Broncos have asked him not to come until the contract is resolved. Technically, he is under contract for $4 million this year and if he wanted to keep that money, he would just show up. I know if my boss asked me to take a pay cut and I said no, I wouldn’t stay home until he told me if I was getting fired or not.

Understandably, I cannot get a definite answer, so my guess is that they want to get his contract lowered before he participates. I’ve seen some reports saying that if he doesn’t show up at mandatory minicamp, he could be fined, but if his contract is still $4 million, why wouldn’t he show up? They certainly can’t fine a guy for not taking a pay cut. We will have the answer by June 12, when mandatory mini camp begins.

If Warren is released, don’t be surprised if the Broncos take another look at free agent and ex-Bronco Marcus Thomas, who played with the team last year. Thomas wants a two-year deal, but the Broncos initially offered a one-year contract. Another guy that could get a strong look is Marcus Stroud, who dominated the line of scrimmage for Jack Del Rio in Jacksonville during his early years, but spent his last two productive years in Buffalo before an injury plagued, short stint in New England.





http://www.milehighsports.com/?p=10280

Tombstone RJ
06-01-2012, 09:28 AM
lmao at Broncos paying Warren $4m to rehab so that they can release him when he's finally healthy.

pricejj
06-01-2012, 09:29 AM
Yes to Marcus Stroud. If for nothing else, his immense knowledge.

No to letting Ty Warren attend. If we cut him, there's a good chance New England will pick him up. We don't want that dude anywhere close to Dove Valley unless he signs the renegotiated contract.

Lestat
06-01-2012, 05:59 PM
lmao at Broncos paying Warren $4m to rehab so that they can release him when he's finally healthy.

honestly would not shock me. DT is apparently the devil around Dove Valley.

Bronco Rob
06-03-2012, 09:38 AM
The Broncos have put $1 million on the table. Sounds like a ton of money to you and me. But it hasn't been enough incentive to get defensive tackle Ty Warren's fanny off the sofa.

Wouldn't it be smarter and cheaper for Denver to tell Warren goodbye?

Once upon a time (2009), in a land far, far away (New England), Warren was a 300-pound load in the middle of the defensive line.

But, of late, Warren has been a big waste of money for nothing. Injuries have derailed his career. He has not played one down of football in two NFL seasons, yet has been paid more than $7 million for sitting on the couch.

Beats working.

The Broncos, who ranked 22nd in the league against the rush during 2011, look a little desperate for a defensive tackle if they are trying to lure Warren back to the team at a salary in the low seven figures.

Denver signed Warren last year after a hip injury ended a productive stint with the Patriots. The Broncos gambled that the likable veteran would rebound — and lost when a torn triceps ended Warren's season before it began.

The team has pooh-poohed worries about its interior defensive line, expressing confidence in the abilities of Justin Bannan, Sealver Siliga and Kevin Vickerson.



http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_20769999/kiszla-fido-best-tactic-broncos-take-ty-warren-broncos

Shananahan
06-03-2012, 09:46 AM
A hard, $1 million stance almost makes it seem like they want him gone, or want to get rid of him somehow that saves them even more money. I can't really figure it out. I don't have a problem with them asking him to take a pay cut, but they're clearly not even trying to negotiate.

Why not offer him something like $1.5 million or so for the season with the opportunity to earn his full $4 million, or even more, from incentives?

Lestat
06-03-2012, 09:58 AM
this stance is just dumb, i could see if you wanted him to slash it in half to 2 mil or 1 mil + incentives to bring it back up to 3 or 4 mil but just a flat out 1 mil is crazy.

Bronco Rob
06-03-2012, 10:02 AM
A hard, $1 million stance almost makes it seem like they want him gone, or want to get rid of him somehow that saves them even more money. I can't really figure it out. I don't have a problem with them asking him to take a pay cut, but they're clearly not even trying to negotiate.

Why not offer him something like $1.5 million or so for the season with the opportunity to earn his full $4 million, or even more, from incentives?


Logic would dictate that philosophy would be the best course of action. Warren's in a contract year and if he wants to be a bounty hunter let's make the most of it. OR maybe the FO is trying to send a message to all future malcontents "we don't negotiate with terrorists"....


???

Shananahan
06-03-2012, 10:47 AM
That's the thing, though. By all reports he hasn't been a malcontent at all. Everything I've read has said he only stopped training when asked to take the pay cut.

It will annoy me if they don't find a way to work something out. I have almost zero faith that Warren will stay healthy or be overly effective, but it doesn't make sense to not give it a shot when you've got the money and it's a position of need.

RaiderH8r
06-03-2012, 11:06 AM
That's the thing, though. By all reports he hasn't been a malcontent at all. Everything I've read has said he only stopped training when asked to take the pay cut.

It will annoy me if they don't find a way to work something out. I have almost zero faith that Warren will stay healthy or be overly effective, but it doesn't make sense to not give it a shot when you've got the money and it's a position of need.

As little faith as I have in Warren's health I have far less faith in Bannan and Silvio Silvester playing worth a damn.

baja
06-03-2012, 12:40 PM
Ya it's a head scratcher. A base of 1 mil with incentives seems like a no brainer to me.

baja
06-03-2012, 12:41 PM
Maybe the new cap man is trying to make a statement, if so it's a bad choice IMO.

CEH
06-03-2012, 01:00 PM
How many times have we seen the club not renegociate the player who has out played his current contract.

This case the player has under performed due to injury. I don't fault Warren. He is willing to come out and honor his contract.

Its now a bad contract with his age and injury last year. Last year it was a risky contract but Denver gave it too him.

Blame Denver not Warren. The team can cut him but I think they see too much risk reward at a position of need.

They see him now as a rotational player on the line and have a salary structure in place for that type of player.

Warren may just hang it up

baja
06-03-2012, 01:05 PM
Ya I agree this one is not on Warren. He has every right to refuse a 75% cut in pay.

How many of you would be willing to take a 75% cut in pay because you were out for a year with a job related injury.

bowtown
06-03-2012, 01:17 PM
this stance is just dumb, i could see if you wanted him to slash it in half to 2 mil or 1 mil + incentives to bring it back up to 3 or 4 mil but just a flat out 1 mil is crazy.

We have no idea what the contract being offered is. Kizla just said there is 1 mil on the table. There could very well be incentives tied to that. Keep in mind who his source most likely is as well... here's a hint, it's probably not the FO.

Lestat
06-03-2012, 01:33 PM
We have no idea what the contract being offered is. Kizla just said there is 1 mil on the table. There could very well be incentives tied to that. Keep in mind who his source most likely is as well... here's a hint, it's probably not the FO.

it could be but that wasn't the tone from the article so as i said before in this thread and even in my post. if it's incentive based then i fully understand the team's stance, if it's just a flat out 75% pay cut then it's just a dumb stance on the team's part.

oubronco
06-03-2012, 01:45 PM
Maybe they know he's not 100% and won't last the season or maybe the fact he hasn't played in 2 yrs has them really concerned

Who knows someone go to Elways house and ask him

Bacchus
06-03-2012, 02:23 PM
Ya I agree this one is not on Warren. He has every right to refuse a 75% cut in pay.

How many of you would be willing to take a 75% cut in pay because you were out for a year with a job related injury.

I agree offer him the $4 million a year if he reaches certain incentives and $5 million if he make the Pro Bowl.

razorwire77
06-03-2012, 02:43 PM
Seems to me like Denver is screwing the pooch with this one. Unless, they feel that Warren is essentially shot and won't contribute or maybe even make the team.

Bacchus
06-03-2012, 02:48 PM
Seems to me like Denver is screwing the pooch with this one. Unless, they feel that Warren is essentially shot and won't contribute or maybe even make the team.


If that is the case then why not cut him outright?

razorwire77
06-03-2012, 02:57 PM
If that is the case then why not cut him outright?

Maybe they're on the fence. They view him best case as possibly rotational depth, but worst case he won't make the team and they'll have to cut him outright.

Bacchus
06-03-2012, 03:09 PM
Maybe they're on the fence. They view him best case as possibly rotational depth, but worst case he won't make the team and they'll have to cut him outright.

So if they view his as marginal then sign him to an incentive laden contract where if he performs above their expectations he will earn his $4 million.

Requiem
06-03-2012, 03:18 PM
Warren was a loser when we signed him and he is a loser now. Cut that turd.

razorwire77
06-03-2012, 03:56 PM
So if they view his as marginal then sign him to an incentive laden contract where if he performs above their expectations he will earn his $4 million.

That's where the FO is either screwing the pooch and offering 1 million or nothing, Warren did something behind the scenes to irritate the FO, or they offered an incentive laden contract and Warren refused to sign it.

DBroncos4life
06-03-2012, 04:23 PM
I would rather have Marcus Stroud and Andre Carter over Ty Warren.

RaiderH8r
06-03-2012, 04:57 PM
I would rather have Marcus Stroud and Andre Carter over Ty Warren.

I'd rather have them over Silvio and Bannan.

DBroncos4life
06-03-2012, 05:04 PM
I'd rather have them over Silvio and Bannan.

There is nothing wrong with Bannan he is a solid run stopper. As for Silvio are you talking about Siliga?

RaiderH8r
06-03-2012, 05:09 PM
There is nothing wrong with Bannan he is a solid run stopper. As for Silvio are you talking about Siliga?

Yep.

Point is some of our best d linemen aren't on our roster...or anybody else's for that matter.

Bannan plays on skates.

DBroncos4life
06-03-2012, 05:49 PM
Yep.

Point is some of our best d linemen aren't on our roster...or anybody else's for that matter.

Bannan plays on skates.

Bannan graded out at a +12.3 run stop rating so I guess the RB's running at him had skates on as well. Buffalo, tried picking up Siliga last year off our PS. Late last season, Buffalo tried to sign Siliga to its 53-man roster, but after playing his college ball at the University of Utah, he felt more comfortable in Denver. Keeping Siliga and Bannan add Stroud and Carter. Drop Warren, Beal and Mitch Unrein. Maybe Hunter as well.

Good Bannan interview.
http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/OTAs-Day-Two-Bannan/ba423555-7198-48ac-b7d8-6d9b2557903d

DenverBrit
06-03-2012, 06:02 PM
We have no idea what the contract being offered is. Kizla just said there is 1 mil on the table. There could very well be incentives tied to that. Keep in mind who his source most likely is as well... here's a hint, it's probably not the FO.

On the money!

It is almost certain that the details of any negotiations are being kept confidential.....as they should be.
Until Warren fails to turn up for mandatory OTAs, there is nothing to see....it is all going on in the background.

The $1 mill is nothing but speculation for now.