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alkemical
05-08-2012, 12:36 PM
Ag pwnage going on up in hurrr

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQeQRND_D1u47LN-yCsOaLhwT6LmWCqcDEd0zY7qylxNyRzCQdB

Flex Gunmetal
05-08-2012, 12:38 PM
Ag pwnage going on up in hurrr

Yet he's posting i'm every thread but this one, as we speak.

Lestat
05-08-2012, 01:10 PM
Gil Whiteley is suggesting Joe Ellis might be the next to go.

https://twitter.com/#!/Gilfest

well his rise to power seems to coincide with the fall of the Broncos.
you either get on board with the new hierarchy or you get shown the door.

Lestat
05-08-2012, 01:12 PM
Of course you care, which is why you respond about it. You are 32, but use the forums as a social outlet equivalent to a 15 year old child who isn't allowed to leave his parents basement. It is really embarrassing.

http://grandgood.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/011309_ohsnap.jpg

Butterscotch Stallion
05-08-2012, 01:49 PM
Your victim complex is intriguing.

"Orton gives us the best chance to win."

your argument, and every one from here until eternity, is invalid.

OrangeSe7en
05-08-2012, 01:50 PM
Gil Whiteley is suggesting Joe Ellis might be the next to go.

https://twitter.com/#!/Gilfest

I thought that Quisling was untouchable.

Butterscotch Stallion
05-08-2012, 01:52 PM
i'm not sick of AG. He has yet to be wrong about anything. Is he negative? maybe. Is he as stupid as the lot of you guys? no.

You guys forget that many of us are still feeling the warmth of being so so so so so so so right last year.

After Tebow got traded the losers, like cockroaches, spilled out into the dark in a happy ****tard circle jerk that has made this place gayer than the Reverend's Twitter pic.

when one of us champions from last year speaks up, you loser's really should just sit down and listen.

You may learn something.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-08-2012, 01:54 PM
"Orton gives us the best chance to win."

your argument, and every one from here until eternity, is invalid.

HURDA HURR.

That was never my argument. You are fail.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-08-2012, 01:55 PM
i'm not sick of AG. He has yet to be wrong about anything. Is he negative? maybe. Is he as stupid as the lot of you guys? no.

You guys forget that many of us are still feeling the warmth of being so so so so so so so right last year.

After Tebow got traded the losers, like cockroaches, spilled out into the dark in a happy ****tard circle jerk that has made this place gayer than the Reverend's Twitter pic.

when one of us champions from last year speaks up, you loser's really should just sit down and listen.

You may learn something.

So do you always suck your own cock, or is this a one-time thing?

Butterscotch Stallion
05-08-2012, 01:58 PM
message from user: TheElusivekyleorton is hidden because all of his arguments are forever invalidated.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-08-2012, 02:05 PM
message from user: TheElusivekyleorton is hidden because all of his arguments are forever invalidated.

Yawn.

Yet you read it, and responded earlier.

You are a failure's failure.

Odd how Butternut Stallion showed up when Ag disappeared... and started defending Ag.

Butterscotch Stallion
05-08-2012, 02:07 PM
*******.

This message is hidden because user TheElusiveKyleOrton is a fag.

crush17
05-08-2012, 02:08 PM
Lollerskates!

DBroncos4life
05-08-2012, 02:08 PM
So do you always suck your own cock, or is this a one-time thing?

He seems more like the tebow masking wearing, penis tucking in, rubbing of his own nipples while looking in the mirror type too me.

Butterscotch Stallion
05-08-2012, 02:13 PM
He seems more like the tebow masking wearing, penis tucking in, rubbing of his own nipples while looking in the mirror type too me.

I love to listen to "Goodbye Horses" too.

and theElusiveKyleOrton should be quiet, or it gets the hose.

Drunken.Broncoholic
05-08-2012, 02:21 PM
Yawn.

Yet you read it, and responded earlier.

You are a failure's failure.

Odd how Butternut Stallion showed up when Ag disappeared... and started defending Ag.

They are one and the same.

DBroncos4life
05-08-2012, 02:24 PM
They are one and the same.

Agreed.

TheReverend
05-08-2012, 02:31 PM
Agreed.

Can promise with 100% certainty that they're not.

Kaylore
05-08-2012, 02:35 PM
Agamemnon likes Tebow and since Elway traded his favorite player he is going to rip on everything Elway does. You saw this when we drafted Wolfe. He knew nothing on him and immediately declared him a "fourth round pick at best" and said the front office was stupid. Then when more info came out that made is knee-jerk comments look increasingly stupid he quickly back-peddled saying he liked the pick suddenly.

You saw this with SoCal. After Cutler was traded and Shanahan was fired, SoCal has made Pat Bowlen his nemesis and invented all sorts of fiction to blame him for everything that has gone wrong for the Broncos with zero evidence to support it.

The point is if you get too into a player, when that player inevitably leaves the team because of one reason or another, you may be left asking yourself if you are actually a fan of the team or the player. I do think you can be both. There are players I enjoy watching on other teams, but I support the Denver Broncos first.

Mogulseeker
05-08-2012, 02:37 PM
Agamemnon likes Tebow and since Elway traded his favorite player he is going to rip on everything Elway does. You saw this when we drafted Wolfe. He knew nothing on him and immediately declared him a "fourth round pick at best" and said the front office was stupid. Then when more info came out that made is knee-jerk comments look increasingly stupid he quickly back-peddled saying he liked the pick suddenly.

You saw this with SoCal. After Cutler was traded and Shanahan was fired, SoCal has made Pat Bowlen his nemesis and invented all sorts of fiction to blame him for everything that has gone wrong for the Broncos with zero evidence to support it.

The point is if you get too into a player, when that player inevitably leaves the team because of one reason or another, you may be left asking yourself if you are actually a fan of the team or the player. I do think you can be both. There are players I enjoy watching on other teams, but I support the Denver Broncos first.

Going into the combine, Wolfe was considered a late 3rd, early 4th. His combine shot his stock up... it was hard to find anything on him post-combine, but he was a late first on a lot of mock drafts.

DBroncos4life
05-08-2012, 02:38 PM
Can promise with 100% certainty that they're not.

Why are you one of them?

TheReverend
05-08-2012, 02:44 PM
Why are you one of them?

Nope. The only other username I've had was JohnMadden but Pez smashed that ASAP... I also tried to do "ThePhoneBook" when Khan and Apa found Tatum Bell and posted his phone # but I never got a registration email.

I do know Butterscotch Stallion though and he's not Agammemnon.

HAT
05-08-2012, 02:48 PM
Why are you one of them?

butters is OABB

DBroncos4life
05-08-2012, 02:49 PM
butters is OABB

Wasn't that guy banned?

TheReverend
05-08-2012, 02:51 PM
gayer than the Reverend's Twitter pic

****ing lold

Probably time to go swap that out haha

baja
05-08-2012, 03:00 PM
Why are you one of them?

He was certain I was MacGruder, so much for rev's certain.

Flex Gunmetal
05-08-2012, 03:18 PM
i'm not sick of AG. He has yet to be wrong about anything. Is he negative? maybe. Is he as stupid as the lot of you guys? no.

You guys forget that many of us are still feeling the warmth of being so so so so so so so right last year.

After Tebow got traded the losers, like cockroaches, spilled out into the dark in a happy ****tard circle jerk that has made this place gayer than the Reverend's Twitter pic.

when one of us champions from last year speaks up, you loser's really should just sit down and listen.

You may learn something.
Who is this clown, and dare i take his posts with more than a grain of salt?

crush17
05-08-2012, 03:21 PM
Who is this clown, and dare i take his posts with more than a grain of salt?

No. Its OABB.

Flex Gunmetal
05-08-2012, 03:26 PM
lol who is this ol #7 guy who keeps negging me?
Feelsgoodbro keep it up. too much green, no red.

Flex Gunmetal
05-08-2012, 03:27 PM
No. Its OABB.

oh lol
permban shermban.

DBroncos4life
05-08-2012, 03:28 PM
lol who is this ol #7 guy who keeps negging me?
Feelsgoodbro keep it up.

Some guy that said Denver had zero chance at signing Manning. Hilarious!

crush17
05-08-2012, 03:30 PM
lol who is this ol #7 guy who keeps negging me?
Feelsgoodbro keep it up. too much green, no red.

He does it all the time to me too. Always telling me when I am being inappropriate.

Thanks for that.

BroncoBeavis
05-08-2012, 03:46 PM
lol who is this ol #7 guy who keeps negging me?
Feelsgoodbro keep it up. too much green, no red.

He's the light-side version of TGN. Rep Lurker.

eddie mac
05-08-2012, 04:05 PM
Agamemnon likes Tebow and since Elway traded his favorite player he is going to rip on everything Elway does. You saw this when we drafted Wolfe. He knew nothing on him and immediately declared him a "fourth round pick at best" and said the front office was stupid. Then when more info came out that made is knee-jerk comments look increasingly stupid he quickly back-peddled saying he liked the pick suddenly.

You saw this with SoCal. After Cutler was traded and Shanahan was fired, SoCal has made Pat Bowlen his nemesis and invented all sorts of fiction to blame him for everything that has gone wrong for the Broncos with zero evidence to support it.

The point is if you get too into a player, when that player inevitably leaves the team because of one reason or another, you may be left asking yourself if you are actually a fan of the team or the player. I do think you can be both. There are players I enjoy watching on other teams, but I support the Denver Broncos first.

Come on now Khan, there's distinctive evidence for some fans not to like things Bowlen/Broncos have done since Shanahan left afterall he did hire McDaniels (set us back 2-3 years that ****) and he has taken Denver into the bottom ten spenders in the NFL whether or not SoCal accredited that via Cutler I cant answer for him but for me I dont bow to the feet of Pat like I did when Shanahan was here. He was the epitomy of sports ownership and did whatever he could to get the Broncos to the top every year, season after season when we were the dominant force in everyone's mind.

I think he gave up on that a little when Shanahan was fired and until the hiring of Elway and the truly committed pursuit of Peyton, I've seen nothing from the Front Office until then to suggest we even intended to compete.

baja
05-08-2012, 04:16 PM
Come on now Khan, there's distinctive evidence for some fans not to like things Bowlen/Broncos have done since Shanahan left afterall he did hire McDaniels (set us back 2-3 years that ****) and he has taken Denver into the bottom ten spenders in the NFL whether or not SoCal accredited that via Cutler I cant answer for him but for me I dont bow to the feet of Pat like I did when Shanahan was here. He was the epitomy of sports ownership and did whatever he could to get the Broncos to the top every year, season after season when we were the dominant force in everyone's mind.

I think he gave up on that a little when Shanahan was fired and until the hiring of Elway and the truly committed pursuit of Peyton, I've seen nothing from the Front Office until then to suggest we even intended to compete.

Ellis is the root cause of this. When Shanny left and Ellis became Pat's "decider" that's when things changed. Hopefully he is on his way out and Elway will be in full control.

Kaylore
05-08-2012, 04:50 PM
Come on now Khan, there's distinctive evidence for some fans not to like things Bowlen/Broncos have done since Shanahan left afterall he did hire McDaniels (set us back 2-3 years that ****) and he has taken Denver into the bottom ten spenders in the NFL whether or not SoCal accredited that via Cutler I cant answer for him but for me I dont bow to the feet of Pat like I did when Shanahan was here. He was the epitomy of sports ownership and did whatever he could to get the Broncos to the top every year, season after season when we were the dominant force in everyone's mind.

I think he gave up on that a little when Shanahan was fired and until the hiring of Elway and the truly committed pursuit of Peyton, I've seen nothing from the Front Office until then to suggest we even intended to compete.

There's no evidence Bowlen interferes in any way with football operations - particularly the hiring of players. If there was even a sniff of this, the local media would have picked up on it. Denver isn't a big city. Word gets around pretty fast. You want to blame him for firing Shanahan and hiring McDaniels, I totally am on board with that. But writing revisionist history to pin all the crappy free agencies Shanahan had on Bowlen based on a Forbes magazine report, and then blaming him for everything the Broncos do is just self-serving fiction.

TheReverend
05-08-2012, 04:57 PM
There's no evidence Bowlen interferes in any way with football operations

Stopped reading there. Or do you mean outside of the entire Cutler situation?

broncogary
05-08-2012, 04:58 PM
There's no evidence Bowlen interferes in any way with football operations - particularly the hiring of players. If there was even a sniff of this, the local media would have picked up on it. Denver isn't a big city. Word gets around pretty fast. You want to blame him for firing Shanahan and hiring McDaniels, I totally am on board with that. But writing revisionist history to pin all the crappy free agencies Shanahan had on Bowlen based on a Forbes magazine report, and then blaming him for everything the Broncos do is just self-serving fiction.

Oh, you mean like Old Dude's new posting rules? Hilarious!

Cito Pelon
05-08-2012, 05:11 PM
When the broncos hired an intern to pick up lunch/dinner orders and another to fix the office computers, the FO couldn't justify keeping Xanders on anymore.

And another moron chimes in with the same old joke.

Cito Pelon
05-08-2012, 05:17 PM
Who cares if he had power or not. It's the fact he did nothing to stop those decisions. He watched the team go straight into a spiral and did nothing about it but run to the media to clear his name.

The two assertions don't mesh, fool.

barryr
05-08-2012, 05:21 PM
I have no animosity towards Xanders, but I doubt he will be missed.

Cito Pelon
05-08-2012, 05:22 PM
I'm not going to read anything you posted, but why don't you go and track down someone, anyone here (not named Beavis), that will endorse your continued presence on this website.

You aren't doing community service, you aren't saving a fanbase from themselves. You aren't changing anyone's school of thought. You are just ruffling feathers because you have no life outside of posting on the internet.

In the words of the authentic Lebowski, "My advice is to do what your parents did, GET A JOB, SIR!"

Just go away, everyone will be happier. We really, really don't want you here.

Then why don't you put him on ignore? Seems like you're the fool here.

broncogary
05-08-2012, 05:25 PM
The two assertions don't mesh, fool.

You see, this seems like it would be a violation of Old Dude's new rules.

And yet I hear nothing.

DenverBroncosJM
05-08-2012, 05:30 PM
Who cares if he had power or not. It's the fact he did nothing to stop those decisions. He watched the team go straight into a spiral and did nothing about it but run to the media to clear his name.

Could you explain to me how someone without power stops someone with power?


Oops looks like I am late to the "that doesn't make sense party"

barryr
05-08-2012, 05:42 PM
Could you explain to me how someone without power stops someone with power?


Oops looks like I am late to the "that doesn't make sense party"

Well, he could have laid down in front of cars until they changed their minds. In reality, you're right, it is like criticizing the special teams' coach for allowing the head coach to unsuccessfully go for it on 4th down.

Flex Gunmetal
05-08-2012, 05:48 PM
Then why don't you put him on ignore? Seems like you're the fool here.

I would lend this assertion some credence, but Ag has more posts than anyone here since his arrival. They are all pot stirring bullsht, therefor he gets quoted more than anyone else here. So, we all have to see his attention craving posts nonstop. Notice how he hasn't posted in this thread since I made the post you quoted?
Perhaps it's working.

But thank you from the bottom of my heart for your suggestion.

Requiem
05-08-2012, 05:53 PM
I did this one day in college in philosophy class:

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f150/hartcavalcade/personal/2pac.jpg

KipCorrington25
05-08-2012, 06:11 PM
i won't pile on. dude lost his job. i'm sure this is a tough time for him and his family. unemployment sucks.

i only hope elway brings in someone he will trust to give a objective opinion no matter the cost. i hope elway is always smart enough to trust it.

He's a multi millionaire I'm sure he'll survive.

gyldenlove
05-08-2012, 06:13 PM
Stopped reading there. Or do you mean outside of the entire Cutler situation?

That was as much a head coaching situation as a player situation.

Drunken.Broncoholic
05-08-2012, 06:20 PM
Could you explain to me how someone without power stops someone with power?


Oops looks like I am late to the "that doesn't make sense party"

Ok. Let me explain it to the weak minded "fools" who cannot grasp a relevant thought. "power" has nothing to do with the point I was making. It's that Xanders had all these ideas(like orapko) yet could not make a good enough case for his decisions to actually happen. he couldnt back up an idea or decision with solid credence. Clearly the standard quality a GM needs. Elway haters are going to question every single move he makes and stamp a negativity label on every one. Get used to him or move on to another team. It's that simple.

SoCalBronco
05-08-2012, 06:24 PM
Gil Whiteley is suggesting Joe Ellis might be the next to go.

https://twitter.com/#!/Gilfest

That would be GREAT.

Ellis is the one who didn't like Shanny or Cutler and wanted Bowlen to get rid of them. He's also the bean counter. You thought you would get away with that, didnt you Joe? Guess what, you're about to ****ing burn (hopefully). I look forward to seeing you ****ing burn, Wormtongue.

I will give Elway HUGE props if he can get rid of Ellis. Ofcourse, its only done to further consolidate Elway's own power, but we'll deal with that later...for now, get rid of Ellis. Baby steps.

Drunken.Broncoholic
05-08-2012, 06:28 PM
That would be GREAT.

Ellis is the one who didn't like Shanny or Cutler and wanted Bowlen to get rid of them. He's also the bean counter. You thought you would get away with that, didnt you Joe? Guess what, you're about to ****ing burn (hopefully). I look forward to seeing you ****ing burn, Wormtongue.

I will give Elway HUGE props if he can get rid of Ellis. Ofcourse, its only done to further consolidate Elway's own power, but we'll deal with that later...for now, get rid of Ellis. Baby steps.



Is it safe to say the Goodmans didn't agree with Ellis and co. back then?

eddie mac
05-08-2012, 06:33 PM
There's no evidence Bowlen interferes in any way with football operations - particularly the hiring of players. If there was even a sniff of this, the local media would have picked up on it. Denver isn't a big city. Word gets around pretty fast. You want to blame him for firing Shanahan and hiring McDaniels, I totally am on board with that. But writing revisionist history to pin all the crappy free agencies Shanahan had on Bowlen based on a Forbes magazine report, and then blaming him for everything the Broncos do is just self-serving fiction.

Who decides the budget Khan??? The financial evidence is there for everyone to see. Denver went from a top spending NFL franchise under Shanahan's tenure to a bottom 10 one under McDaniels and Fox. I'm not blaming Bowlen for actual player recruitment but I am blaming him for tying the front office's hands behind their backs in terms of payroll up until the pursuit of Manning.

The Broncos gave out a total of just over $33m in guaranteed money this offseason, there were free agents signed by teams who got that all on their own nevermind the rest of the players those same teams recruited.

In 2011 Denver had the 7th lowest payroll in the NFL, I'd say at this point Manning has maybe moved them up the table an inch or 2 with that $18m in 2012.

The lack of spending is even moreso evident when you look at the depth of the roster. Unlike most NFL teams it is not littered with seasoned vets on $1m plus per year contracts, it's filled to the brim with players on rookie deals and minimum UDFA contracts, so whilst other teams were filling up their rosters with players who can compete with starters we were whiffing on contract offers put on the table by Soliai, Bunkley and Samuel's agents then settling for Bannan and sniffing around Florence.

If I didn't know any better I'd say Brad Pitt was working for us on the sly.:giggle:

SoCalBronco
05-08-2012, 06:35 PM
Who decides the budget Khan??? The financial evidence is there for everyone to see. Denver went from a top spending NFL franchise under Shanahan's tenure to a bottom 10 one under McDaniels and Fox. I'm not blaming Bowlen for actual player recruitment but I am blaming him for tying the front office's hands behind their backs in terms of payroll up until the pursuit of Manning.

But...but...it was just a crazy SoCal theory and that dollars per wins study and the 9 years of spending data is not real evidence and Shanny actually had Nate Webster as his No. 1 FA target all along even though he was only getting paid peanuts!!!1111

Cito Pelon
05-08-2012, 06:37 PM
That would be GREAT.

Ellis is the one who didn't like Shanny or Cutler and wanted Bowlen to get rid of them. He's also the bean counter. You thought you would get away with that, didnt you Joe? Guess what, you're about to ****ing burn (hopefully). I look forward to seeing you ****ing burn, Wormtongue.

I will give Elway HUGE props if he can get rid of Ellis. Ofcourse, its only done to further consolidate Elway's own power, but we'll deal with that later...for now, get rid of Ellis. Baby steps.

Will Elway buy the franchise? I think he wants to.

SoCalBronco
05-08-2012, 06:39 PM
Will Elway buy the franchise? I think he wants to.

It's very possible, although he would need to band together a large group of investors, which he may be able to do. If he is the owner and he spends freely and aggressively and makes a commitment to be top notch, I'd be fine with him. The problem I have is that I dont think he's currently seasoned enough for his role and it shows from time to time, which isnt good.

Drunken.Broncoholic
05-08-2012, 06:40 PM
This team had a front office overhaul during a lockout year. I didn't expect them to spend like Philly did last year. How did that work out for them? One year in the books and they landed the biggest FA ever. They spent this offseason cause there was actually an offseason, instead of a rushed 2-3 week offseason like last year. This team has made strides since 2010. Is that a credit to Elway,Bowlen, Ellis, Xanders, or Fox? I believe Elway.

BroncoBeavis
05-08-2012, 06:48 PM
I would lend this assertion some credence, but Ag has more posts than anyone here since his arrival. They are all pot stirring bullsht, therefor he gets quoted more than anyone else here. So, we all have to see his attention craving posts nonstop. Notice how he hasn't posted in this thread since I made the post you quoted?
Perhaps it's working.

But thank you from the bottom of my heart for your suggestion.

Meanwhile there's some other schmuck talking about how if Manning never plays a snap, it was worth the $20 million and lost season just to get rid of Tebow.

And you have no issue with that form of "pot stirring"

Cito Pelon
05-08-2012, 06:51 PM
I would lend this assertion some credence, but Ag has more posts than anyone here since his arrival. They are all pot stirring bullsht, therefor he gets quoted more than anyone else here. So, we all have to see his attention craving posts nonstop. Notice how he hasn't posted in this thread since I made the post you quoted?
Perhaps it's working.

But thank you from the bottom of my heart for your suggestion.

Hey, I just go right past his posts, don't even bother to read replies to his posts, and I don't think I've missed much on either end.

Flex Gunmetal
05-08-2012, 08:17 PM
Meanwhile there's some other schmuck talking about how if Manning never plays a snap, it was worth the $20 million and lost season just to get rid of Tebow.

And you have no issue with that form of "pot stirring"

Does he have Eight Thousand posts in Sixteen months?
Cause if not, that's probably why i haven't noticed him.

LonghornBronco
05-08-2012, 09:17 PM
And everyone, I mean everyone, is sick of you. You're a 32 year old attention seeking loser who has the time to make 16 posts per day here. Of course you feel like it's your job to post here all day every day, because what else would you do?

Please go.

+1

Kaylore
05-08-2012, 10:37 PM
But...but...it was just a crazy SoCal theory and that dollars per wins study and the 9 years of spending data is not real evidence and Shanny actually had Nate Webster as his No. 1 FA target all along even though he was only getting paid peanuts!!!1111

First, why do you get signatures and the rest of us don't?

Second, when Shanny was breaking the bank for a used up Ty Law and worthless Niko Kotouvides, are you trying to argue Bowlen "forced him" to play with Webster. Ok dude. ::)

baja
05-08-2012, 11:16 PM
Hey, I just go right past his posts, don't even bother to read replies to his posts, and I don't think I've missed much on either end.

ONE OF THE NICE FEATURES ABOUT A Mac is it's high speed touch pad scroll ;D

SoCalBronco
05-08-2012, 11:23 PM
First, why do you get signatures and the rest of us don't?

Second, when Shanny was breaking the bank for a used up Ty Law and worthless Niko Kotouvides, are you trying to argue Bowlen "forced him" to play with Webster. Ok dude. ::)

We didn't "break the bank" for either of those guys, especially not Kotouvides. He was making like 1-2m.

snowspot66
05-08-2012, 11:45 PM
We didn't "break the bank" for either of those guys, especially not Kotouvides. He was making like 1-2m.

If I remember right we were consistently limited in cap space. Not right up against it but we never had the room we've got now. We had a LOT of dead money back in the day.

SoCalBronco
05-08-2012, 11:54 PM
If I remember right we were consistently limited in cap space. Not right up against it but we never had the room we've got now. We had a LOT of dead money back in the day.

We had some dead money for sure, the amount of which probably varied year to year, but dead money alone cannot come close to explaining the consistently low actual spending levels over the course of 9 years, which averaged around 20th in the league in actual dollars spent according to statistical data that is publicly available and from a neutral source. If it could be largely explained by dead money, we would have hit the cap tidal wave that enveloped SF and TEN for several years. That never happened here. Ever. I've posted the links to the data several times. Check out the search function. It doesn't take 7 years of massively low spending to make up for 2 high spending years. It just doesnt.

fontaine
05-09-2012, 01:51 AM
Who decides the budget Khan??? The financial evidence is there for everyone to see. Denver went from a top spending NFL franchise under Shanahan's tenure to a bottom 10 one under McDaniels and Fox. I'm not blaming Bowlen for actual player recruitment but I am blaming him for tying the front office's hands behind their backs in terms of payroll up until the pursuit of Manning.

What exactly are you basing this on? Salary Cap or Salary spend?

eddie mac
05-09-2012, 04:29 AM
What exactly are you basing this on? Salary Cap or Salary spend?

Cap has nothing to do with it, the Broncos are actually one of the better teams now in cap management because they spread every contract over the term of the deal. It's based on salary spend per season.

TheReverend
05-09-2012, 05:05 AM
First, why do you get signatures and the rest of us don't?

Second, when Shanny was breaking the bank for a used up Ty Law and worthless Niko Kotouvides, are you trying to argue Bowlen "forced him" to play with Webster. Ok dude. ::)

^ Ty Law was McD bro Ha!

WolfpackGuy
05-09-2012, 05:08 AM
Outside of all those deferrals coming due for Elway, TD's extension, and the Dale Carter fiasco, I don't remember the Broncos carrying a lot of dead money under Shanahan.

Law was a McClueless addition eventhough his old ass was actually better than everyone else in the secondary except Champ.

alkemical
05-09-2012, 05:24 AM
Shanny sort of turned into Schottenhimer with his nepotism.

CEH
05-09-2012, 05:48 AM
Switch out Dre Bly for Ty Law though he was a trade but still the contracts are what we are really discussing

The contract includes $18 million in bonus money and $16 million guaranteed and two years on the team. Travis Henry

Really Shanny was best when he pulled the FA classes back in the SB years

Romo,Eddie, Crocket, Gordon, Williams, Schlreth, Smith

Crocket four-year, $6.4 million contract with the Denver Broncos
6-7 year career. A much better FA signing

Requiem
05-09-2012, 05:53 AM
I'm working up a huge **** this morning.

Traveler
05-09-2012, 07:03 AM
Is it safe to say the Goodmans didn't agree with Ellis and co. back then?

Does anyone know if the Goodman's ever returned to an NFL front office? If not, why?

Kaylore
05-09-2012, 07:34 AM
^ Ty Law was McD bro Ha!

The point is the same. From Daryl Gardener to Jarvis Green - The coaches of the Broncos have had the ability to spend whatever they wanted and get whoever they wanted. SoCal is blaming Shanahan's ineptitude as a free agent talent evaluator on Pat Bowlen. Really it was Shanahan who would sign garbage, cut them at the end of the season, and have huge cap hits year after year. It's utter fantasy that Bowlen "held Shanahan back." There has never been a case reported by anyone of Bowlen telling the coaching staff not to pursue a contract with a player because of money. The only time I can think of is Bailey's extension before the lockout, and that had as much to with pressure from the other owners. This despite signing Williams (both DJ and Jamal), Bannon and others to bloated contracts.

My point was that people think up excuses to demonize the ones responsible for getting rid of their favorites. SoCal is mad about Shanahan and Cutler getting let go. Did you hear from him before that about how Bowlen was holding Shanny down? Of course you didn't. Because he wasn't mad at Bowlen then and didn't need to invent stories to rip on him. Just like Agamemmnon didn't rip on everything the team did until they traded Tebow.

TonyR
05-09-2012, 07:56 AM
...when Shanny was breaking the bank for a used up Ty Law and worthless Niko Kotouvides...

Any you're being kind here by not mentioning Jamie Winborn, Marquand Maneuel, Boss Bailey, Marlon McCree, and Dewayne Robertson, just to name a few.

alkemical
05-09-2012, 08:26 AM
The point is the same. From Daryl Gardener to Jarvis Green - The coaches of the Broncos have had the ability to spend whatever they wanted and get whoever they wanted. SoCal is blaming Shanahan's ineptitude as a free agent talent evaluator on Pat Bowlen. Really it was Shanahan who would sign garbage, cut them at the end of the season, and have huge cap hits year after year. It's utter fantasy that Bowlen "held Shanahan back." There has never been a case reported by anyone of Bowlen telling the coaching staff not to pursue a contract with a player because of money. The only time I can think of is Bailey's extension before the lockout, and that had as much to with pressure from the other owners. This despite signing Williams (both DJ and Jamal), Bannon and others to bloated contracts.

My point was that people think up excuses to demonize the ones responsible for getting rid of their favorites. SoCal is mad about Shanahan and Cutler getting let go. Did you hear from him before that about how Bowlen was holding Shanny down? Of course you didn't. Because he wasn't mad at Bowlen then and didn't need to invent stories to rip on him. Just like Agamemmnon didn't rip on everything the team did until they traded Tebow.

That's the thing...Shanny did "try" to build the team - he just made poor decisions:

George foster, Toveossi, etc etc -

Lestat
05-09-2012, 09:02 AM
Does anyone know if the Goodman's ever returned to an NFL front office? If not, why?

not sure about Jim but Jeff(the son) went back to being a lawyer.

baja
05-09-2012, 09:13 AM
The point is the same. From Daryl Gardener to Jarvis Green - The coaches of the Broncos have had the ability to spend whatever they wanted and get whoever they wanted. SoCal is blaming Shanahan's ineptitude as a free agent talent evaluator on Pat Bowlen. Really it was Shanahan who would sign garbage, cut them at the end of the season, and have huge cap hits year after year. It's utter fantasy that Bowlen "held Shanahan back." There has never been a case reported by anyone of Bowlen telling the coaching staff not to pursue a contract with a player because of money. The only time I can think of is Bailey's extension before the lockout, and that had as much to with pressure from the other owners. This despite signing Williams (both DJ and Jamal), Bannon and others to bloated contracts.

My point was that people think up excuses to demonize the ones responsible for getting rid of their favorites. SoCal is mad about Shanahan and Cutler getting let go. Did you hear from him before that about how Bowlen was holding Shanny down? Of course you didn't. Because he wasn't mad at Bowlen then and didn't need to invent stories to rip on him. Just like Agamemmnon didn't rip on everything the team did until they traded Tebow.

It doesn't seem much of a leap to say Bowlen rethought how he spends his money after several post SB years of Shanny's drunken sailor spending without results. Like any good businessman when he saw the return was not there he reigned in the wasteful spending. With Elway coming on board Bowlen's confidence is being restored as he witnesses the good choices John is making. This might be why he signed off on the Manning signing. To me it looks like we are headed in the right direction with Elway. I am cautiously optimistic that Pat is back in the winning mode and Elway is growing into the job nicely.

Rohirrim
05-09-2012, 09:16 AM
It doesn't seem much of a leap to say Bowlen rethought how he spends his money after several post SB years of Shanny's drunken sailor spending without results. Like any good businessman when he saw the return was not there he reigned in the wasteful spending. With Elway coming on board Bowlen's confidence is being restored as he witnesses the good choices John is making. This might be why he signed off on the Manning signing. To me it looks like we are headed in the right direction with Elway. I am cautiously optimistic that Pat is back in the winning mode and Elway is growing into the job nicely.

Sounds like a reasonable explanation to me.

gyldenlove
05-09-2012, 09:16 AM
The point is the same. From Daryl Gardener to Jarvis Green - The coaches of the Broncos have had the ability to spend whatever they wanted and get whoever they wanted. SoCal is blaming Shanahan's ineptitude as a free agent talent evaluator on Pat Bowlen. Really it was Shanahan who would sign garbage, cut them at the end of the season, and have huge cap hits year after year. It's utter fantasy that Bowlen "held Shanahan back." There has never been a case reported by anyone of Bowlen telling the coaching staff not to pursue a contract with a player because of money. The only time I can think of is Bailey's extension before the lockout, and that had as much to with pressure from the other owners. This despite signing Williams (both DJ and Jamal), Bannon and others to bloated contracts.

My point was that people think up excuses to demonize the ones responsible for getting rid of their favorites. SoCal is mad about Shanahan and Cutler getting let go. Did you hear from him before that about how Bowlen was holding Shanny down? Of course you didn't. Because he wasn't mad at Bowlen then and didn't need to invent stories to rip on him. Just like Agamemmnon didn't rip on everything the team did until they traded Tebow.

Obviously the opacity of running an NFL franchise can very much alienate fans and create phantoms. Ultimately we as fans know very little about what is going on, we are rarely treated to the whole story about anything and when someone does decide to speak up it is always someone with ulterior motives so you have to decide how tainted their words are.

To my knowledge Bowlen has interfered with football operations 3 times, the firing of Jim Bates, Mike Shanahan and trading Cutler. I don't think he had a real choice in any of the cases but had to step in to maintain some sort of order on the team.

It does get frustrating sitting in the dark trying to guess who is the mastermind behind many of these decisions, some of which we agree with, some of which we disagree with. It is often easier to attribute the percieved bad decisions to one person who can be demonized which shields the people we like from criticism.

alkemical
05-09-2012, 09:56 AM
Obviously the opacity of running an NFL franchise can very much alienate fans and create phantoms. Ultimately we as fans know very little about what is going on, we are rarely treated to the whole story about anything and when someone does decide to speak up it is always someone with ulterior motives so you have to decide how tainted their words are.

To my knowledge Bowlen has interfered with football operations 3 times, the firing of Jim Bates, Mike Shanahan and trading Cutler. I don't think he had a real choice in any of the cases but had to step in to maintain some sort of order on the team.

It does get frustrating sitting in the dark trying to guess who is the mastermind behind many of these decisions, some of which we agree with, some of which we disagree with. It is often easier to attribute the percieved bad decisions to one person who can be demonized which shields the people we like from criticism.

...& that is a human condition and how 'conspiracies' are born. our* imaginations fill in the gaps.

Drunken.Broncoholic
05-09-2012, 10:00 AM
Any you're being kind here by not mentioning Jamie Winborn, Marquand Maneuel, Boss Bailey, Marlon McCree, and Dewayne Robertson, just to name a few.

What an all pro cast.

Lestat
05-09-2012, 10:13 AM
Shananhan had lost his mind draft and personnel wise before he got canned. the Goodman's were a start in the right direction for the draft but his issues with lack of results in FA when Bowlen was forking over big money like it was water doomed him.

you can see the difference in Washington when Shanny is faced with a real GM and a wanna be GM owner. he may have final say but it's not just his say and no one else anymore.

it was foolish spending at best and one could see why Bowlen might scale back and look for more bang for his buck. he like most of us wants results and wants a winner, but the guaranteed money, the dead money that resulted from the failures and the negative place we were as a franchise wasn't getting it done.

Elway himself has said his plan is to build through the draft. he's doing that and we are in a really good cap situation thus far.

Kaylore
05-09-2012, 01:22 PM
Eactly my point. Bowlen gave Shanahan full control over the roster. He did find some draft success, probably more than he gets credit for. And he had quite a few undrafted players that did remarkably well for him. Unfortunately his high pick misses (the second round selections were particularly atrocious.) and expensive misses in free agency got him fired. Shanahan the coach is awesome. Shanahan the GM is not so much.

Powderaddict
05-09-2012, 05:53 PM
I really have no strong feelings on this. Other than Elway is obviously the BAUS!

Cito Pelon
05-09-2012, 05:56 PM
Any you're being kind here by not mentioning Jamie Winborn, Marquand Maneuel, Boss Bailey, Marlon McCree, and Dewayne Robertson, just to name a few.

Oh lord, let's hope the days of that sad ass defense will never be repeated.

Cito Pelon
05-09-2012, 06:05 PM
I really have no strong feelings on this. Other than Elway is obviously the BAUS!

Elway brought in a true professional coaching staff, and that's a big deal.

Elway may not like to mention it, but his career was greatly benefited by HOF coaches. His two main HC's were Dan Reeves and Mike Shanahan, and Shanahan was hired into the NFL by Dan Reeves and mentored by Reeves. The interim HC between Reeves and Shanahan was Wade Phillips, and he brought in some nice players for Shanahan to work with. Also Joe Collier put together some nice defenses to help Elway along.

Imagine Elway's career if his HC's were some bums like Chan Gailey, or whomever.

Lestat
05-09-2012, 06:15 PM
Elway brought in a true professional coaching staff, and that's a big deal.

Elway may not like to mention it, but his career was greatly benefited by HOF coaches. His two main HC's were Dan Reeves and Mike Shanahan, and Shanahan was hired into the NFL by Dan Reeves and mentored by Reeves. The interim HC between Reeves and Shanahan was Wade Phillips, and he brought in some nice players for Shanahan to work with. Also Joe Collier put together some nice defenses to help Elway along.

Imagine Elway's career if his HC's were some bums like Chan Gailey, or whomever.

for the first time in a long time the Broncos feel like a organization that has professionals running it. from top to bottom we have a good GM,good scouts,a great coaching staff and improving roster to work with.

OrangeSe7en
05-09-2012, 06:24 PM
Shananhan had lost his mind draft and personnel wise before he got canned. the Goodman's were a start in the right direction for the draft but his issues with lack of results in FA when Bowlen was forking over big money like it was water doomed him.

you can see the difference in Washington when Shanny is faced with a real GM and a wanna be GM owner. he may have final say but it's not just his say and no one else anymore.

it was foolish spending at best and one could see why Bowlen might scale back and look for more bang for his buck. he like most of us wants results and wants a winner, but the guaranteed money, the dead money that resulted from the failures and the negative place we were as a franchise wasn't getting it done.

Elway himself has said his plan is to build through the draft. he's doing that and we are in a really good cap situation thus far.

This couldnt be more wrong. Two of his last three drafts were the best in the NFL. It has more to do with the timing of Sundquist leaving and Goodman emerging. There's a reason Pat declared that Goodman isn't going anywhere (but then he was obviously fired months later...but he was in the right for saying that). Sundquist was a joke. He's since had a job in the media so he's been in a better position to present his point of view to the public but the results speak for themselves.

Lestat
05-09-2012, 06:40 PM
This couldnt be more wrong. Two of his last three drafts were the best in the NFL. It has more to do with the timing of Sundquist leaving and Goodman emerging. There's a reason Pat declared that Goodman isn't going anywhere (but then he was obviously fired months later...but he was in the right for saying that). Sundquist was a joke. He's since had a job in the media so he's been in a better position to present his point of view to the public but the results speak for themselves.

what drafts were you watching? 2006 was the only really good draft Shanny had before he got canned. that produced Cutler,Scheffler,Marshall,Dumervil,Hixon and Kuper out of 7(the only miss was Eslinger)

08 produced Clady,Royal and Hillis out of 9 picks, 07 produced Harris out of 4 picks, 05 produced Williams(R.I.P),Foxworth and Myers out of 6 picks, 04 produced DJ and Tatum out of 10 picks, 03 produced Eason out of 10 picks.

Sundquist was a joke but as i said in my original post. the Goodman's were a nice start but Shanny had lost his mind on the draft and personnel moves. he struck out in FA and one insanely good draft along with a ok one doesn't change that fact that he was terrible as a GM and talent evaluator when he had final say and ultimate power.

BroncoBeavis
05-09-2012, 08:38 PM
Eactly my point. Bowlen gave Shanahan full control over the roster. He did find some draft success, probably more than he gets credit for. And he had quite a few undrafted players that did remarkably well for him. Unfortunately his high pick misses (the second round selections were particularly atrocious.) and expensive misses in free agency got him fired. Shanahan the coach is awesome. Shanahan the GM is not so much.

Shanahan the coach needed to learn how to trust a DC, so I would have rated him somewhere south of awesome.

fontaine
05-10-2012, 04:49 AM
Cap has nothing to do with it, the Broncos are actually one of the better teams now in cap management because they spread every contract over the term of the deal. It's based on salary spend per season.

Then where did you get your salary spend numbers? I think Elway said they spent nearly 120mill last year which would be higher that salary spend previously.

fontaine
05-10-2012, 04:55 AM
The point is the same. From Daryl Gardener to Jarvis Green - The coaches of the Broncos have had the ability to spend whatever they wanted and get whoever they wanted. SoCal is blaming Shanahan's ineptitude as a free agent talent evaluator on Pat Bowlen. Really it was Shanahan who would sign garbage, cut them at the end of the season, and have huge cap hits year after year. It's utter fantasy that Bowlen "held Shanahan back." There has never been a case reported by anyone of Bowlen telling the coaching staff not to pursue a contract with a player because of money. The only time I can think of is Bailey's extension before the lockout, and that had as much to with pressure from the other owners. This despite signing Williams (both DJ and Jamal), Bannon and others to bloated contracts.

My point was that people think up excuses to demonize the ones responsible for getting rid of their favorites. SoCal is mad about Shanahan and Cutler getting let go. Did you hear from him before that about how Bowlen was holding Shanny down? Of course you didn't. Because he wasn't mad at Bowlen then and didn't need to invent stories to rip on him. Just like Agamemmnon didn't rip on everything the team did until they traded Tebow.

Exactly. It was the same with the absolute pie in the sky conspiracy theories about how the FO wasn't going to let Tebow start last year because of non existent contract escalations that would hugely expand his year salary.

It turned BOTH Orton and Tebow combined got paid almost $19million in salary, not cap, but actual hard cash spent on just one position last year.

Yet Bowlen is cheap right?

R-Mac
05-10-2012, 06:29 PM
It's worth your time.

http://www.milehighsports.com/?p=10047


THE ODD MAN OUT
Why Brian Xanders was shown the door
By D-Mac

I guess I feel bad for Brian Xanders because he wasn’t allowed to sit at the cool kids table. I mean that literally; he wasn’t invited to the Cherry Creek Country Club to have dinner with John Elway, John Fox, Peyton Manning, Matt Russell, John Lynch and Brandon Stokley. C’mon, guys, now that was kind of mean, wasn’t it?

Elway did a piece for 9News where he gave a tour of the draft war room. Elway strode around the room showing off the three giant drop-down screens used for viewing highlights and assessing players. Pointing at chairs around a huge conference room table he said, “I sit here, Matt Russell sits here, Greek sits here.” Then getting to the front of the table – the proverbial HEAD of the table, the spot at the table where surely the person who is in charge of the meeting would sit, Elway said, “and this is where Brian sits; yea, he sits here because he’s the only one that knows how to run the computers.”

Ouch!

Xanders’ last week of employment with the Broncos would be spent on vacation, which is ironic for a guy who never took a day off. When he returned this week, Elway took X into his office. When Xanders left, he no longer had a job. The now-former general manager survived the ousting of Mike Shanahan, the tumultuous time of Josh McDaniels and the Elway transition. What he didn’t survive was the dawning of Elway’s confidence as an NFL executive.

When Xanders was retained by Elway, he did so by spending seven hours in No. 7’s kitchen and showing him every single detail of how to run an NFL team. Bowled over, Elway didn’t even interview another GM candidate. In the media, we were shocked. Xanders was somebody who was associated, perhaps unfairly, as the co-conspirator to all the Josh McDaniels crimes – the trading of Cutler, the drafting of Knowshon, the selection of Tebow, the retaining of Orton, the horrific 2009 draft and the London Spygate, just to name a few. How in the world did this guy keep his job in the first place?

At the draft press conference last year, Elway – surrounded by Xanders and Fox – had a hard time remembering who the starting center was on his team. Hey, I’ll cut John some slack; he had only been on the job for a couple of months. I heard it took a year for J.D. Walton’s mom to remember who her son was. However, as the season changed so did Xanders’ role.

Ex-agent Michael Sullivan became the money and contract guy. Russell became the pro and college personnel guy. Mike Bluem became more of a peer than an underling. Most, importantly, Elway would have no problem remembering J.D. Walton and every other nook and cranny of the Broncos. When the dust settled, there simply wasn’t anything left for Xanders to be in charge of – well, accept those pesky computers.

But besides boredom, what were Elway’s reasons for letting Xanders go right now? Xanders did have another year left on his contract and he certainly IS a nice guy. Heck, he had been a steady racquetball companion for Elway during the past year. What was the deciding factor?

Perhaps what was most telling was Elway’s unbridled unenthusiasm for Tebow. The litany of bad body language and worn out quotes to prove this doesn’t need to be explained further. That slow, sarcastic hand clapping was the sound of Elway cheering on the Broncos comeback versus the Dolphins. The owner of the Indians in Major League was more psyched about her team winning than Elway was about his squad’s success.

Orton was a disaster (nice trade, McDaniels… er, I mean Xanders… uh, I mean McDaniels), so let Tebow sink the season. It was gonna be a sweet two-for-one deal. Tebow would lose and thus all those Tebowaholics would have to shut up as the Broncos would prepare to get Andrew Luck. However, things didn’t go to plan. TEBOW won!!! (Wow, you are a genius, McDaniels… er, I mean Xanders… uh, I mean… never mind.)

You don’t trade your best receiver if you are really excited about your new quarterback. You know who told us all that? Champ Bailey! Brandon Lloyd was dealt for what became a fifth-round draft pick, which became pass rushing defensive end Malik Jackson. THAT was the value of a receiver who very well may be catching touchdown passes from Tom Brady next year. When I asked Lloyd if he regretted not being with the Broncos as they went on their amazing playoff run, he said no because the quarterback was still Tebow. Elway knew this was true. I’m sure Elway felt the same way.

It seems to me that Elway was going to get rid of Tebow one way or another. What was the value for your team MVP and the No. 1 reason you never did have a shot at Andrew Luck? Philip Blake and Danny Trevathan!

“Mommy, what am I supposed to do with my amazing No. 15 jersey?” doting little child Broncos fan asks.

“Oh, don’t worry sweetie, we’ll replace it with the REAL stars of the Broncos – Philip Blake’s or Danny Trevathan’s!” brainwashed mom answers. “One of them is a back-up center and the other one is Wesley Woodyard part two – very exciting!”

In reality, there would’ve been no harm in actually keeping Tebow, but that wasn’t going to happen. Neither was keeping the guy who believed in Tebow in the first place. What do you want to bet that when the Broncos were drafting Brock Osweiler, the reasonable dissenting voice in the room may have been Xanders?

Now, there seems to be an outpouring of hatred against a man that gave everything he had to make the Broncos better. That 9News toad, Drew Soicher, called Xanders an “assistant water boy.” Those are strong words from a guy who prides himself on his high quality work with bobbleheads and seals. When I sent a text to Xanders thanking him for being so open with us and telling him not to pay attention to Soicher, his response was, “I don’t know who that is.” Touché.

Xanders was NOT Josh McDaniels and shouldn’t be defined that way. You want to be angry at somebody, keep that spirit going towards the Rams… .uh, I mean, the Patriots offensive coordinator. Xanders was the one guy that kept this Broncos train moving forward. He was the one that picked up the pieces after Shanahan and McDaniels were rightfully shown the door. He was the main architect that got Elway up to speed and resulted in one of the most memorable years in Broncos history.

Does Elway have the right to shape the organization the way he sees fit? Absolutely. More power to him. John IS the No. 1 reason Peyton Manning is here – not Xanders. Elway spoke alone before the draft this year. He didn’t need to stand next to anybody to explain what the Broncos were about to do. Elway is smart and savvy, not needing the hand holding that was once offered. However, we shouldn’t forget the person that got Elway to that point.

Xanders is far from a bad guy. He is not being run out of town in shame like McDaniels. He will be a valued member in a short period of time for another quality NFL team.

What Xanders lacked though was Elway’s trust. How could Elway ever trust somebody who had made the one decision he disagreed with the most? How could Elway ever trust somebody who believed in Tebow? Not only do I think John felt that way, but I believe those feelings were shared by every person brought on board since Elway has arrived.

Xanders wasn’t a bad guy, nobody was gonna beat him up and steal his lunch money. But, nobody was gonna invite him for a sleepover.

In the end, Xanders is out, because he didn’t fit in.

I wish Xanders the best. Classy guy that enjoyed working for the Broncos.

Hulamau
05-14-2012, 06:02 AM
Agamemnon likes Tebow and since Elway traded his favorite player he is going to rip on everything Elway does. You saw this when we drafted Wolfe. He knew nothing on him and immediately declared him a "fourth round pick at best" and said the front office was stupid. Then when more info came out that made is knee-jerk comments look increasingly stupid he quickly back-peddled saying he liked the pick suddenly.

You saw this with SoCal. After Cutler was traded and Shanahan was fired, SoCal has made Pat Bowlen his nemesis and invented all sorts of fiction to blame him for everything that has gone wrong for the Broncos with zero evidence to support it.

The point is if you get too into a player, when that player inevitably leaves the team because of one reason or another, you may be left asking yourself if you are actually a fan of the team or the player. I do think you can be both. There are players I enjoy watching on other teams, but I support the Denver Broncos first.

Hit the nail on the head Kaylore .. all around.

eddie mac
05-14-2012, 06:06 AM
Then where did you get your salary spend numbers? I think Elway said they spent nearly 120mill last year which would be higher that salary spend previously.

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2012/05/01/revealed-the-worlds-best-paid-teams-man-city-close-in-on-barca-and-real-madrid-010501/

OrangeSe7en
05-14-2012, 06:32 AM
what drafts were you watching? 2006 was the only really good draft Shanny had before he got canned. that produced Cutler,Scheffler,Marshall,Dumervil,Hixon and Kuper out of 7(the only miss was Eslinger)

08 produced Clady,Royal and Hillis out of 9 picks, 07 produced Harris out of 4 picks, 05 produced Williams(R.I.P),Foxworth and Myers out of 6 picks, 04 produced DJ and Tatum out of 10 picks, 03 produced Eason out of 10 picks.

Sundquist was a joke but as i said in my original post. the Goodman's were a nice start but Shanny had lost his mind on the draft and personnel moves. he struck out in FA and one insanely good draft along with a ok one doesn't change that fact that he was terrible as a GM and talent evaluator when he had final say and ultimate power.

Clady, Royal, and Hillis have all had all pro caliber years at some point. It's stupid to complain when the other 6 picks weren't as good. Those three players actually made it a good draft, especially when you consider that Hillis was a 7th round pick. Also, even though Woodyard wasn't drafted per se, the Broncos scooped him up immediately after the draft so, he's comparable to a draft pick since he was researched during the scouting/draft process. I'm not sure what's going on with him now (I dont follow Washington) but Ive seen Lichtensteiger starting for the Redskins.

pricejj
05-14-2012, 09:04 AM
I wish Xanders the best. Classy guy that enjoyed working for the Broncos.

Word. Thanks Xanders.

I gained a lot of respect for Xanders since McDaniels was outed. I'm not sure what moves Xanders was responsible for, and which ones he wasn't. But the fact is, 16 months after the hurricane left town, the Broncos are once again talking Super Bowl. Thanks bro.

Lestat
05-14-2012, 11:59 AM
Clady, Royal, and Hillis have all had all pro caliber years at some point. It's stupid to complain when the other 6 picks weren't as good. Those three players actually made it a good draft, especially when you consider that Hillis was a 7th round pick. Also, even though Woodyard wasn't drafted per se, the Broncos scooped him up immediately after the draft so, he's comparable to a draft pick since he was researched during the scouting/draft process. I'm not sure what's going on with him now (I dont follow Washington) but Ive seen Lichtensteiger starting for the Redskins.

the goal of any draft is to get stars, starters and guys who help you win games.
Clady is the only guy who's been a consistent top end guy for the Broncos.
you have 3-4 drafts where only 1-2 guys are consistently good, it will tend to show up in a bad way and that's exactly what happened with Shanahan.

his bad player personnel decisions caught up with him and the depth was so poor that once the bad aid of consistency in the coaching staff was ripped off it opened the wound of a true talent deficiency that sent us reeling into severe tailspin.

but if that's what you consider a successful draft, where player's blossom on other teams after getting traded,cut or signing elsewhere after being so so or failing here then more power to you.

to me a successful draft is when you get 50% of your draft picks to be significant contributors to building and continuing the upward trend of your franchise. 2-3 starters. some very good depth guys who could be starters later on, some guys who heavily contribute to special teams play.
that's a good draft, that's the type of draft you see the best teams(outside of probably the Patriots) having to build their teams up and keep them there. that's how you build a dynasty and keep it going.

Hillis was not even a part of the Broncos when he had his best years. Lichtensteiger spent one season with the team before getting cut so anything he's done after that doesn't help the Broncos.

Royal is no longer with the team had 1 good season before falling off the map and only getting back to some semblance of his rookie form during the latter stages of a contract year.

Woodyard was considered way too small and while productive wouldn't hold up in the NFL.

eddie mac
05-14-2012, 12:16 PM
Clady, Royal, and Hillis have all had all pro caliber years at some point. It's stupid to complain when the other 6 picks weren't as good. Those three players actually made it a good draft, especially when you consider that Hillis was a 7th round pick. Also, even though Woodyard wasn't drafted per se, the Broncos scooped him up immediately after the draft so, he's comparable to a draft pick since he was researched during the scouting/draft process. I'm not sure what's going on with him now (I dont follow Washington) but Ive seen Lichtensteiger starting for the Redskins.

For a 2nd rd pick Royal has been pretty meh, after all that promise shown with Cutler. We'll see how good he is with one of the best in the game under center.