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chickennob2
05-02-2012, 04:20 PM
Why do you hate the Osweiler pick? As best I can figure, you must hold one of these beliefs:

1. The Broncos should have never signed Peyton Manning. Tebow gives us the best chance to win.

2. We don't need a backup quarterback for our 36 year old starter who missed all of last season with a neck injury.

3. Tim Tebow would've been the perfect backup to Peyton, especially when you consider how much the current coaching staff loved him for the job!

4. Brock Osweiler would've been around at one of our later picks, because some guy at walter football or nfldraftcountdown.com said so.

5. We should have drafted some other quarterback; clearly taking the one that our entire front office thought was the best fit was a bad call.

6. We didn't need to draft a backup quarterback, we signed future all-pro Caleb Hanie!

Gort
05-02-2012, 04:25 PM
Why do you hate the Osweiller pick? As best I can figure, you must hold one of these beliefs:

1. The Broncos should have never signed Peyton Manning. Tebow gives us the best chance to win.

2. We don't need a backup quarterback for our 36 year old starter who missed all of last season with a neck injury.

3. Tim Tebow would've been the perfect backup to Peyton, especially when you consider how much the current coaching staff loved him for the job!

4. Brock Osweiler would've been around at one of our later picks, because some guy at walter football or nfldraftcountdown.com said so.

5. We should have drafted some other quarterback; clearly taking the one that our entire front office thought was the best fit was a bad call.

6. We didn't need to draft a backup quarterback, we signed future all-pro Caleb Hanie!

none of the above. why do you assume the Broncos franchise MUST have Brock Osweiler as their QBOTF or the future of the franchise is in jeopardy?

the pick was a reach. both where he was taken and why he was taken.

if we really are on Plan A and there is no Plan B, then EVERY move, EVERY SINGLE move for the next 2-4 years must be made to pursue one outcome and only one outcome, to win 1 or more SB titles with Peyton Manning. picking Brock in the 2nd doesn't help us do that. not even the slightest amount.

that's why the whole football world outside of Dove Valley scratched their heads over this pick.

BroncoBeavis
05-02-2012, 04:27 PM
Why do you hate the Osweiller pick? As best I can figure, you must hold one of these beliefs:

1. The Broncos should have never signed Peyton Manning. Tebow gives us the best chance to win.

2. We don't need a backup quarterback for our 36 year old starter who missed all of last season with a neck injury.

3. Tim Tebow would've been the perfect backup to Peyton, especially when you consider how much the current coaching staff loved him for the job!

4. Brock Osweiler would've been around at one of our later picks, because some guy at walter football or nfldraftcountdown.com said so.

5. We should have drafted some other quarterback; clearly taking the one that our entire front office thought was the best fit was a bad call.

6. We didn't need to draft a backup quarterback, we signed future all-pro Caleb Hanie!

Wow, 6 straw men in one post. Good Job! :)

peacepipe
05-02-2012, 04:28 PM
its rooted in tebow,1st they get PM & the hope was TT could develop under him.only to see tebow get traded. then they draft a QB in the 2nd rd leaving tebowites wondering why would they make the effort to develop oswieler and not tebow.

Mogulseeker
05-02-2012, 04:28 PM
The symbiotic relationship between Osweiler and the Broncos is a perfect fit. We get a godo value on a project QB, and he doesn't have to start right away.

Next year's draft class is weak and in two years it is unknown when we will pick, or who will be available.

It was a smart pick.

BroncoMan4ever
05-02-2012, 04:30 PM
i don't hate the pick. i think it is smart to have a guy in waiting. while i am extremely optimistic about Peyton's neck and think he will be fine for a few years it is smart to bee prepared should he not last that long.

look at the Colts without Peyton. they continually drafted no talent guys late in the draft or undrafted guys and when Peyton went down none could step up and get the job done. With Osweiler we have a guy with at least some ability and talent who can learn and be ready should disaster strike or take over when the time is right.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-02-2012, 04:30 PM
The symbiotic relationship between Osweiler and the Broncos is a perfect fit. We get a godo value on a project QB, and he doesn't have to start right away.

Next year's draft class is weak and in two years it is unknown when we will pick, or who will be available.

It was a smart pick.

All of this.

I wasn't wild about the pick, but I'm not wildly against it, either. Nice to have a talented thrower waiting and hopefully learning behind Manning.

Agamemnon
05-02-2012, 04:32 PM
Why do you hate the Osweiller pick? As best I can figure, you must hold one of these beliefs:

1. The Broncos should have never signed Peyton Manning. Tebow gives us the best chance to win.

2. We don't need a backup quarterback for our 36 year old starter who missed all of last season with a neck injury.

3. Tim Tebow would've been the perfect backup to Peyton, especially when you consider how much the current coaching staff loved him for the job!

4. Brock Osweiler would've been around at one of our later picks, because some guy at walter football or nfldraftcountdown.com said so.

5. We should have drafted some other quarterback; clearly taking the one that our entire front office thought was the best fit was a bad call.

6. We didn't need to draft a backup quarterback, we signed future all-pro Caleb Hanie!

If you want any one to respond with their honest reasons for disliking the pick you probably shouldn't be so snarky with your options. You are making it very clear that you just want to start an argument and have no real interest in points of view other than your own.

BroncoMan4ever
05-02-2012, 04:35 PM
none of the above. why do you assume the Broncos franchise MUST have Brock Osweiler as their QBOTF or the future of the franchise is in jeopardy?

the pick was a reach. both where he was taken and why he was taken.

if we really are on Plan A and there is no Plan B, then EVERY move, EVERY SINGLE move for the next 2-4 years must be made to pursue one outcome and only one outcome, to win 1 or more SB titles with Peyton Manning. picking Brock in the 2nd doesn't help us do that. not even the slightest amount.

that's why the whole football world outside of Dove Valley scratched their heads over this pick.

while the general idea is to go all in now, it is smart that at least on some level they are also looking at the future. i mean look at the Cowboys since the early 90s. they were all in then, and once those older guys began retiring, left for money elsewhere, or injuries forced them out, they still haven't ound their way back to even a little bit of postseason success.

just because we have a small window with Peyton doesn't mean the frachise should say **** the next decade once Peyton hangs it up.

Agamemnon
05-02-2012, 04:37 PM
while the general idea is to go all in now, it is smart that at least on some level they are also looking at the future. i mean look at the Cowboys since the early 90s. they were all in then, and once those older guys began retiring, left for money elsewhere, or injuries forced them out, they still haven't ound their way back to even a little bit of postseason success.

just because we have a small window with Peyton doesn't mean the frachise should say **** the next decade once Peyton hangs it up.

Based on our current roster the only possible way we win a Super Bowl before Manning retires is to basically do just that.

BroncoMan4ever
05-02-2012, 04:39 PM
its rooted in tebow,1st they get PM & the hope was TT could develop under him.only to see tebow get traded. then they draft a QB in the 2nd rd leaving tebowites wondering why would they make the effort to develop oswieler and not tebow.

Tebow's media frenzy is what ended it for him. had he just been a below average passer with a lot of upside without the insane fanbase, i doubt the team would have traded him. he would have probably remained to learn by watching Manning. and with Osweiler for the most part he can hit every NFL throw already, it is just an issue of prepping him mentally and getting him ready for the NFL.

there is a big difference between a QB who couldn't hit sand if he fell off a camel and a young inexperienced QB who has all the physical attributes and ability you would want in a QB.

chickennob2
05-02-2012, 04:42 PM
none of the above.


Huh. Let's see about that.


why do you assume the Broncos franchise MUST have Brock Osweiler as their QBOTF or the future of the franchise is in jeopardy?


So that sounds like either 2 or a combination of multiple options. Either "We don't need a backup with talent" or "it should have been someone else".


the pick was a reach. both where he was taken


4

and why he was taken.


2, 5, or 6


if we really are on Plan A and there is no Plan B, then EVERY move, EVERY SINGLE move for the next 2-4 years must be made to pursue one outcome and only one outcome, to win 1 or more SB titles with Peyton Manning. picking Brock in the 2nd doesn't help us do that. not even the slightest amount.


Taking Brock doesn't help us in the slightest? That means Osweiler fills no hole on this roster. So, again, either 2, 5, or 6.


that's why the whole football world outside of Dove Valley scratched their heads over this pick.

The "whole football world" ? Can you point to some evidence that the consensus of people with a coaching or front office job in the NFL who hold this opinion? Or does "whole football world" mean "people on cable networks and the internet"? (See option 4).

BroncoMan4ever
05-02-2012, 04:43 PM
Based on our current roster the only possible way we win a Super Bowl before Manning retires is to basically do just that.

if that were true, Peyton wouldn't have chosen Denver to finish his career.

there is talent on the roster. the defense last year was vastly improved over years prior. we added another elite defensive mind to the staff in Del Rio. we added major weaponry to the TE position, our young receiving duo is another year more experienced and for the 1st time in their careers have a great QB throwing them the ball. this is a team that with a QB who couldn't pass the ball last season won its division and a playoff game. this team is ready to kick some ass with its new leader.

chickennob2
05-02-2012, 04:44 PM
If you want any one to respond with their honest reasons for disliking the pick you probably shouldn't be so snarky with your options. You are making it very clear that you just want to start an argument and have no real interest in points of view other than your own.

If you have an opinion other than one of the listed options, you're welcome to post it!

DBroncos4life
05-02-2012, 04:44 PM
Huh. Let's see about that.



So that sounds like either 2 or a combination of multiple options. Either "We don't need a backup with talent" or "it should have been someone else".



4



2, 5, or 6



Taking Brock doesn't help us in the slightest? That means Osweiller fills no hole on this roster. So, again, either 2, 5, or 6.



The "whole football world" ? Can you point to some evidence that the consensus of people with a coaching or front office job in the NFL who hold this opinion? Or does "whole football world" mean "people on cable networks and the internet"? (See option 4).

Tebow fans.

chickennob2
05-02-2012, 04:47 PM
Based on our current roster the only possible way we win a Super Bowl before Manning retires is to basically do just that.

You're stating this as if its an objective fact. Clearly John Elway, John Fox, and the rest of the Broncos front office disagree with you. Their goal is to win the super bowl. Their job is to win the super bowl. They seem to think this move helped bring them closer to that goal.

If you want to make a reasoned argument for why the Broncos current roster can only compete for a super bowl by spending the 57th pick in this draft on someone other than Brock Osweiler, I'm all ears.

BroncoBeavis
05-02-2012, 04:47 PM
Tebow's media frenzy is what ended it for him. had he just been a below average passer with a lot of upside without the insane fanbase, i doubt the team would have traded him. he would have probably remained to learn by watching Manning. and with Osweiler for the most part he can hit every NFL throw already, it is just an issue of prepping him mentally and getting him ready for the NFL.

there is a big difference between a QB who couldn't hit sand if he fell off a camel and a young inexperienced QB who has all the physical attributes and ability you would want in a QB.

Galt had a post today that really put it in perspective for me.

Elway was pissed because Tebow represented someone succeeding in spite of what he thought, and the fanbase appeared, for a short time, to know more about what was good for the Broncos than he did.

The billboard fiasco, and him being forced to cave to the pressure that his own failed decision placed on him put a dent in the old alpha dog ego, and he sees this as his chance to reassert his status.

But to do it, he had to set up championship-level expectations. If he fails to deliver or come very close, he'll probably never recover.

Mogulseeker
05-02-2012, 04:48 PM
Learning from Manning is all on Osweiler. Manning isn't going to go out of his way to help Ozzy.

Elway will likely work with him, and I have a feeling that he'll be in contact with Mazzone when he isn't allowed to be in contact with Elway.

It's going to be more a matter of Osweiler copying Manning - how he prepares, how he practices, how he carries himself. Being around people can catalyze this kind of development. If I'm Osweiler, I'm interning behind Manning - "Man, can I get you some coffee... here, let me carry your pads." This can pay dividends for him.

The Broncos are in a perfect situation to draft a project QB, and that's exactly with Ozzy is. He's also 21 - so he'll only be 24 taking over if Peyton plays three more years. Tebow will be 25 by the time the season starts.

BroncoBeavis
05-02-2012, 04:52 PM
You're stating this as if its an objective fact. Clearly John Elway, John Fox, and the rest of the Broncos front office disagree with you. Their goal is to win the super bowl. Their job is to win the super bowl. They seem to think this move helped bring them closer to that goal.

Yes, they brought in Peyton Manning and paid him more than any other QB to try to win a Super Bowl.

Now explain how Brock Osweiler, instead of say, someone who could actually be on the field at the same time as Peyton Manning, brings us closer to that objective...

chickennob2
05-02-2012, 04:55 PM
Yes, they brought in Peyton Manning and paid him more than any other QB to try to win a Super Bowl.

Now explain how Brock Osweiler, instead of say, someone who could actually be on the field at the same time as Peyton Manning, brings us closer to that objective...

Because he's not Caleb Hanie.

And if, at the end of the year, the difference between our roster and a super bowl champion roster is one player that any orange maners wanted at #57 instead of Brock, I'll still have to consider the season an overwhelming success.

Requiem
05-02-2012, 04:56 PM
I don't hate the pick. I'm actually excited about Osweiler's young age, talent level and ability to progress. I just thought if the Broncos were interested in winning now, they would have used their efforts @ 57 on another offensive / defensive position. Then again, we do not know how long Manning will last or be on the team -- so it isn't necessarily a bad idea to get an investment in a QBOTF. If Osweiler can do the Aaron Rodgers, learn the ropes type move, great for us.

Hopefully Wolfe, Osweiler and Hillman will be awesome for us!

lolcopter
05-02-2012, 04:58 PM
the pick was a reach. both where he was taken and why he was taken.


dude was rated low 1st high, 2nd round grade.

you guys need to realize the tebow is gone, hanie sucks, and peyton isn't getting any younger

i hated the pick at the time tbh, but it makes sense.

BroncoBeavis
05-02-2012, 05:01 PM
Because he's not Caleb Hanie.

And if, at the end of the year, the difference between our roster and a super bowl champion roster is one player that any orange maners wanted at #57 instead of Brock, I'll still have to consider the season an overwhelming success.

Sorry, but if you expect Brock Osweiler at 21 years old out of a college spread offense to step into Peyton Manning's offense and win games, you're kidding yourself.

The only upside of Brock comes after Manning is done. Until then, all he did was take a draft pick off the field.

BroncoMan4ever
05-02-2012, 05:03 PM
Galt had a post today that really put it in perspective for me.

Elway was pissed because Tebow represented someone succeeding in spite of what he thought, and the fanbase appeared, for a short time, to know more about what was good for the Broncos than he did.

The billboard fiasco, and him being forced to cave to the pressure that his own failed decision placed on him put a dent in the old alpha dog ego, and he sees this as his chance to reassert his status.

But to do it, he had to set up championship-level expectations. If he fails to deliver or come very close, he'll probably never recover.

that is an interesting way to think about it.

but when i think about anything with Elway, he would need to **** up on an epic level in his new role to really tarnish his legacy in Denver; and not seeing Tim as a lightning rod type for the team and then trading him isn't big enough to damage John's status amongst the true Broncos fans who saw him play and carry a franchise. it is the fans of Tebow, who were never true Broncos fans, whose opinion of John has dropped significantly

TheReverend
05-02-2012, 05:03 PM
I love Brock as a player.

As a Bronco with Manning as the #1, I'm not thrilled with it... and there's 100 million reasons backing that POV. Our roster is still talent deficient and we absolutely could've used another guy to potentially start or at minimum be a valuable role player.

My main contention with it, and fingers crossed here, by the time Brock gets a chance to really play, there'll be a new flavor of the month QB we've replaced him with.

BroncoBeavis
05-02-2012, 05:05 PM
dude was rated low 1st high, 2nd round grade.*
.

* Rating Courtesy of Kathy Osweiler of Great Falls based Pick'emz Professional Draft Rating Service. Where, "Yeah, we admit that Ryan Leaf thing was a big misunderstanding." :)

BroncoMan4ever
05-02-2012, 05:06 PM
another way to look at the draft. anybody drafted during Manning's tenure as a Bronco are really more for the guy who will take over for Manning than they are for Peyton. in most cases a draft pick needs 2-4 years to really come into his own in the NFL, and if the belief is that Manning is done in 3, these draft picks are hitting their primes when the replacement takes over.

Houshyamama
05-02-2012, 05:08 PM
There should be some accountability here.

If you're wildly against the pick, and he turns out great, you shouldn't get to have an opinion anymore.

lolcopter
05-02-2012, 05:08 PM
hating on brock because he's not tebow itt and this forum

Mogulseeker
05-02-2012, 05:09 PM
dude was rated low 1st high, 2nd round grade.

you guys need to realize the tebow is gone, hanie sucks, and peyton isn't getting any younger

i hated the pick at the time tbh, but it makes sense.

His combine dropped him to late second, but the point remains.

Some guy on ESPN was saying how he thought Osweiler was the best of the second-tier QBs this draft. Luck and Griffin being the tier ones and Tannehill, Weeden and Osweiler being the 2nd tier.

2009 we saw Stafford go #1 and Sanchez was the second Qb taken. Osweiler is a top-ten pick in the 2009 draft class if he shows up to the combine.

You might say that he's a second pick. By all accounts this could end up being a very good pick. Osweiler has a strong arm (if he can rip it like that so close to his body, imagine what he can doe with Brady's mechanics), and he can move for a big guy. Very raw footwork, so it's good that he can intern under Manning.

Osweiler dropped because it was the deepest draft class at QB in a decade, and most teams don't want to take a chance on a guy as raw as Osweiler, so I think it is an ideal situation for us to get him in the 2nd.

It is a high/risk high/reward situation, because there are a lot of players that have the skills to be great, but never are. One indication of their ability to become great is patience and a willing to learn. Osweiler has shown these qualities more than any QB I can think of in recent memory.

Mogulseeker
05-02-2012, 05:10 PM
Even this year, if Osweiler throws at the combine, he goes to Cleveland 22 overall.

Drek
05-02-2012, 05:12 PM
Why do you hate the Osweiler pick? As best I can figure, you must hold one of these beliefs:
First of all, this is obvious trolling and your arguments are all incredibly weak. Here is why:

1. The Broncos should have never signed Peyton Manning. Tebow gives us the best chance to win.
Find a single person who actually think Tebow gives us the best chance to win in the next couple of seasons before you act like this little straw man is real.

2. We don't need a backup quarterback for our 36 year old starter who missed all of last season with a neck injury.
I'd argue that the need for such a backup QB is a big part of the problem here. Osweiler sure as hell isn't ready to play next year. We've already seen that Tebow could win games in the NFL. If we lose Manning for 4 games in the middle of the season who do you think gives us the best chance to go 3-1 and hang onto a division lead?

3. Tim Tebow would've been the perfect backup to Peyton, especially when you consider how much the current coaching staff loved him for the job!
Pro clubs make mistakes all the time. Indy seriously thought one of their QBs could legitimately run Manning's offense. There isn't a QB in the league who can do that as his passing system relies heavily on Manning's pre-snap adjustments due to ungodly film study and the highest football IQ basically to ever play. Our team thinking that Caleb Hanie and Brock Osweiler are better bets to win games if Manning is out is an obvious mistake that anyone can see coming from a mile away. But this FO would rather lose with their guys than win with someone else's. They've made that pretty clear.

4. Brock Osweiler would've been around at one of our later picks, because some guy at walter football or nfldraftcountdown.com said so.
You miss the point of the "Osweiler was bad value" argument. What has people pissed isn't that Osweiler may or may not have been around later, the problem is that no sane human being could make a legitimate argument that Osweiler is:
A - a better football prospect than Lavonte David, Casey Hayward, or Rueben Randle.
B - more likely to help the Denver Broncos win a title over the next 2-3 years than Lavonte David, Casey Hayward, or Rueben Randle.

He wasn't BPA and he wasn't the biggest position of need. So why was he drafted? Because our FO was QB queer for "their guy". That is a dangerous way to build a team because if you aren't the smartest guy in the league pick after pick you're going to have a LOT of busts. As pre-Goodmans Mike Shanahan about that.

5. We should have drafted some other quarterback; clearly taking the one that our entire front office thought was the best fit was a bad call.
Who has made this argument? I haven't seen anyone on here espousing Nick Foles or Kirk Cousins post-Osweiler pick. No one has a problem with Osweiler, they have a problem with the team's motives for selecting him.

6. We didn't need to draft a backup quarterback, we signed future all-pro Caleb Hanie!
If a capable backup QB was so essential why did we trade the cost controlled playoff game winning QB we had last season for a 4th round pick?

The FO would look a whole lot smarter in this process if they had kept Tebow and still drafted Osweiler. Then they could argue that it is a full on competition for the long term job, but that they also want multiple layers of protection behind Manning in case his health becomes an issue.

Instead they gave Tebow away for very weak return and promptly brought in the WORST BACKUP QB IN THE LEAGUE LAST YEAR. Then act like QB is a need come the draft. It is a disingenuous approach, especially after all the lip service they paid Tebow while he was winning them games last year.

Shananahan
05-02-2012, 05:20 PM
Galt had a post today that really put it in perspective for me.

Elway was pissed because Tebow represented someone succeeding in spite of what he thought, and the fanbase appeared, for a short time, to know more about what was good for the Broncos than he did.

The billboard fiasco, and him being forced to cave to the pressure that his own failed decision placed on him put a dent in the old alpha dog ego, and he sees this as his chance to reassert his status.

But to do it, he had to set up championship-level expectations. If he fails to deliver or come very close, he'll probably never recover.
This is ridiculous. Every team without a franchise or a blue chip prospect at QB in the league would be doing the exact same thing had they been able to sign Manning. If Denver doesn't win a Super Bowl it will be disappointing, and if they don't come close it will be embarrassing. Signing Manning, however, probably won't ever be held against Elway.

You really used to post more interesting takes and were generally fun to read around here, dude. You've gone off a cliff with this whole losing Tebow and signing Manning thing.

Gort
05-02-2012, 05:26 PM
hating on brock because he's not tebow itt and this forum

i see the circle jerk of Tebow haters is out in force today.

my complaint is that we didn't need to spend a 2nd round pick in the very first draft after signing Manning to a 5-year deal on a so-called QBOTF. this has nothing to do with tebow. it's about draft strategy. the strategy behind this pick was dumb.

my other complaint is that we need contributors on O and D while Manning is here to get us to a SB. we need lots of them. we didn't fill those holes during free agency. we needed to have a super draft to make up for that. the draft was OK, not great. Osweiler doesn't help us in any way while Manning is here.

Tebow is gone. i hope he does well in NY because i like to see idiots on ESPN eat their words. but I'm over it. for me, it's not about Tebow in the slightest. the funny thing is, the assclowns here who complained the loudest about the so-called Teboners are still obsessed with Tebow and anyone who disagrees with their opinions is automatically a Teboner. their behavior in the coming months is easily going to prove my assertion that the problem with the OM wasn't the Tebow fans, it was the irrational, angry, hate-filled Tebow haters. none of that hate has subsided and we will be living with it here for a long time to come.

Rohirrim
05-02-2012, 05:33 PM
I didn't "hate" the Osweiler pick. I was puzzled by it. Still am. For reference, see Drek's post 32. Especially:

You miss the point of the "Osweiler was bad value" argument. What has people pissed isn't that Osweiler may or may not have been around later, the problem is that no sane human being could make a legitimate argument that Osweiler is:
A - a better football prospect than Lavonte David, Casey Hayward, or Rueben Randle.
B - more likely to help the Denver Broncos win a title over the next 2-3 years than Lavonte David, Casey Hayward, or Rueben Randle.

ColoradoDarin
05-02-2012, 05:33 PM
Again, none of the above. If you want an honest answer, ask in good faith that this post is lacking.

chickennob2
05-02-2012, 05:56 PM
First of all, this is obvious trolling and your arguments are all incredibly weak. Here is why:


Find a single person who actually think Tebow gives us the best chance to win in the next couple of seasons before you act like this little straw man is real.


I'd argue that the need for such a backup QB is a big part of the problem here. Osweiler sure as hell isn't ready to play next year. We've already seen that Tebow could win games in the NFL. If we lose Manning for 4 games in the middle of the season who do you think gives us the best chance to go 3-1 and hang onto a division lead?


Pro clubs make mistakes all the time. Indy seriously thought one of their QBs could legitimately run Manning's offense. There isn't a QB in the league who can do that as his passing system relies heavily on Manning's pre-snap adjustments due to ungodly film study and the highest football IQ basically to ever play. Our team thinking that Caleb Hanie and Brock Osweiler are better bets to win games if Manning is out is an obvious mistake that anyone can see coming from a mile away. But this FO would rather lose with their guys than win with someone else's. They've made that pretty clear.


You miss the point of the "Osweiler was bad value" argument. What has people pissed isn't that Osweiler may or may not have been around later, the problem is that no sane human being could make a legitimate argument that Osweiler is:
A - a better football prospect than Lavonte David, Casey Hayward, or Rueben Randle.
B - more likely to help the Denver Broncos win a title over the next 2-3 years than Lavonte David, Casey Hayward, or Rueben Randle.

He wasn't BPA and he wasn't the biggest position of need. So why was he drafted? Because our FO was QB queer for "their guy". That is a dangerous way to build a team because if you aren't the smartest guy in the league pick after pick you're going to have a LOT of busts. As pre-Goodmans Mike Shanahan about that.


Who has made this argument? I haven't seen anyone on here espousing Nick Foles or Kirk Cousins post-Osweiler pick. No one has a problem with Osweiler, they have a problem with the team's motives for selecting him.


If a capable backup QB was so essential why did we trade the cost controlled playoff game winning QB we had last season for a 4th round pick?

The FO would look a whole lot smarter in this process if they had kept Tebow and still drafted Osweiler. Then they could argue that it is a full on competition for the long term job, but that they also want multiple layers of protection behind Manning in case his health becomes an issue.

Instead they gave Tebow away for very weak return and promptly brought in the WORST BACKUP QB IN THE LEAGUE LAST YEAR. Then act like QB is a need come the draft. It is a disingenuous approach, especially after all the lip service they paid Tebow while he was winning them games last year.

There's a lot going on here, but you seem to have two main points.

1. Brock Osweiler was a bad value at pick #57
2. Tim Tebow was a better option at backup QB.

For your first point, I disagree. There's some good stuff here (http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/you-got-served-draft-groupthink) about draft value. These three players you mention are all very good football players. But when taking into account scheme fit, roster need, and a long-term view of improving the football team, the front office decided the Osweiler was the best pick. Sure, you can say that a rookie nickel linebacker would improve the Broncos more than a developmental quarterback. But I assure you that John Elway knows a whole hell of a lot more about those players, our desired scheme, the strengths and weakness of everyone on our current roster, and our organization's long term goals (and how best to get there) than any of us do. Here's one possible argument: Quarterback is the most important position in football. To get a "franchise" quarterback, you're spending a pick in the top half of the first round. To grab a kid at the end of the second round whose skillset you love and think is a perfect fit for what your team wants to do on the football field, you're getting great value. Sure he won't contribute immediately, but he gets to start learning immediately. And he's going to be learning from the of the two best quarterbacks of their respective generations. And if Peyton gets hurt 6 games into next year, yeah, Brock will almost certainly struggle. With either Brock or Hanie, we won't make the playoffs. But with Brock, unlike Hanie, it's not a wasted season. It's a year of experience for our quarterback of the future. It's a reason for people to not lose interest in the team. That, too, is valuable.

For your second point, that Tebow was the best option at backup quarterback, I think we need to look again at scheme. Yes, Tim did very well this year. But did you notice how much praise Fox and McCoy got for completely overhauling the offensive scheme mid-year to accomodate the switch to Tebow? They got that praise because what they pulled off was very difficult. There simply aren't enough reps to install two completely different offenses. Especially when you're trying to invent and install an entirely new offense built around Peton Manning. You can't do it. So if you want to insert Tebow as a backup, you're going to lose a number of ballgames during that ramp-up time it takes to install the Tebow offense.. And even if you successfully make that transition again, you're working with a roster that is built for a very different offense. Do you really think Joel Dreessen and Jacob Tamme would thrive in a heavily run-oriented read option attack? This defense is being built to play with a lead. If we try to play ball control football with Derek Wolfe and Justin Bannan at DT, we're going to lose a lot of ball games. I think that, to give your football team the best chance to compete if Peyton Manning misses time (over the next few seasons), you've got to get a guy with some of the same skills who can play in the same offense.

errand
05-02-2012, 05:57 PM
Tebow fans.

... you hit the nail on the head....you've just gave the number one reason that most have bitched about signing manning and drafting Osweiler.... because they're still butt hurt

SpringStein
05-02-2012, 05:59 PM
Next year's draft class is weak and in two years it is unknown when we will pick, or who will be available.

It was a smart pick.

Interesting observation. Almost all scouts said this was an extremely weak draft after the top 20. Not sure where you can state so factually that next year's draft class will be weak.

Let's look at QBs next year.

Bray, TN
Barkley, USC
Jones, OU
Wilson, Ark
Smith, WVA
Manuel, FSU

Hmmm....

BroncoBeavis
05-02-2012, 06:04 PM
This is ridiculous. Every team without a franchise or a blue chip prospect at QB in the league would be doing the exact same thing had they been able to sign Manning. If Denver doesn't win a Super Bowl it will be disappointing, and if they don't come close it will be embarrassing. Signing Manning, however, probably won't ever be held against Elway.

You really used to post more interesting takes and were generally fun to read around here, dude. You've gone off a cliff with this whole losing Tebow and signing Manning thing.

As I said at the time. If they'd mended fences with the kid who lit the city on fire and put him solidly behind Manning, you wouldn't hear a peep from me. I (and others) predicted, while some people hoped otherwise, that egos were too big to let that happen, or even give it a shot. The Osweiler pick just cements that take as inarguable.

Kaylore
05-02-2012, 06:07 PM
I don't hate the pick per se. I just don't love where we took him. I don't believe that the difference between us winning and losing the superbowl hinged on us "wasting" our low second round pick on Brock. That's retarded.

BroncoBeavis
05-02-2012, 06:09 PM
Interesting observation. Almost all scouts said this was an extremely weak draft after the top 20. Not sure where you can state so factually that next year's draft class will be weak.

Let's look at QBs next year.

Bray, TN
Barkley, USC
Jones, OU
Wilson, Ark
Smith, WVA
Manuel, FSU

Hmmm....

This year's overall #2 wasn't even on the radar last year. One season is an eternity in college fb.

Shananahan
05-02-2012, 06:10 PM
I (and others) predicted, while some people hoped otherwise, that egos were too big to let that happen, or even give it a shot. The Osweiler pick just cements that take as inarguable.
Of course it's inarguable; it's blatantly obvious and became so as soon as Manning signed. I love Tebow and would be all kinds of excited thinking about him learning from Manning and playing again in the future, but it's really not very logical and Jesus Christ can you imagine the nonsense that would be churned out daily because of it? For all the reasons I was excited about a guy with potential to improve behind Manning then (Tebow) I am excited about a guy like Osweiler. Personally I'd probably have been happier with a guy like David, who I feel is a can't-miss player, but it's pretty easy for me to stay positive about Osweiler's talent and future.

Being upset about giving Tebow away is more than understandable. Filling every post you make after it happened with bitterness and negativity is just annoying at this point.

BroncoBeavis
05-02-2012, 06:14 PM
I don't hate the pick per se. I just don't love where we took him. I don't believe that the difference between us winning and losing the superbowl hinged on us "wasting" our low second round pick on Brock. That's retarded.

At least it's possible. The one thing you can't say is that Osweiler helps Peyton win a title in any way shape or form. Not to mention we could've used that pick along with not trading back to really go after top tier talent.

Shananahan
05-02-2012, 06:17 PM
The one thing you can't say is that Osweiler helps Peyton win a title in any way shape or form.
Even this isn't true. What happens next season or the season after if Manning needs to miss a few games during the regular season? Osweiler could conceivable help win those games, giving Denver a better record and a better chance at a Super Bowl.

BroncoBeavis
05-02-2012, 06:18 PM
Of course it's inarguable; it's blatantly obvious and became so as soon as Manning signed. I love Tebow and would be all kinds of excited thinking about him learning from Manning and playing again in the future, but it's really not very logical and Jesus Christ can you imagine the nonsense that would be churned out daily because of it? For all the reasons I was excited about a guy with potential to improve behind Manning then (Tebow) I am excited about a guy like Osweiler. Personally I'd probably have been happier with a guy like David, who I feel is a can't-miss player, but it's pretty easy for me to stay positive about Osweiler's talent and future.

Being upset about giving Tebow away is more than understandable. Filling every post you make after it happened with bitterness and negativity is just annoying at this point.

I think if you adjust your glasses somewhat you'll see that my posts are mostly aimed at people who said Tebow didn't have a chance and are now talking about Brock like he's a hof'er before his first snap.

Shananahan
05-02-2012, 06:20 PM
That's fair.

But still, he's gone.

BroncoBeavis
05-02-2012, 06:22 PM
Even this isn't true. What happens next season or the season after if Manning needs to miss a few games during the regular season? Osweiler could conceivable help win those games, giving Denver a better record and a better chance at a Super Bowl.

Not in comparison to any reasonable approach (like bringing in a Delhomme type vet)

Compared to Hanie? Yeah maybe. But that's like having the world's worst idea and then patting yourself on the back when your next idea isn't quite so dumb.

baja
05-02-2012, 06:30 PM
Tebow's media frenzy is what ended it for him. had he just been a below average passer with a lot of upside without the insane fanbase, i doubt the team would have traded him. he would have probably remained to learn by watching Manning. and with Osweiler for the most part he can hit every NFL throw already, it is just an issue of prepping him mentally and getting him ready for the NFL.

there is a big difference between a QB who couldn't hit sand if he fell off a camel and a young inexperienced QB who has all the physical attributes and ability you would want in a QB.


Na there is a difference backing up Kyle Orton and Peyton Manning. Tebows fans (most at least) would understand Mannning is the 20 million dollar starter Besides I doubt the FO fears TT's fans as much as is assumed on this site. The sole reason they dumped Tebow and turned around and used a 2nd on Osweller is THEY DID NOT LIKE TEBOW AS THEIR QBOTF.

Shananahan
05-02-2012, 06:33 PM
Not in comparison to any reasonable approach (like bringing in a Delhomme type vet)

Compared to Hanie? Yeah maybe. But that's like having the world's worst idea and then patting yourself on the back when your next idea isn't quite so dumb.
It'd be pretty easy to use the same response to everybody saying we'd be more improved by drafting any other rookie instead. I thought we were simply talking about the impact that Osweiler specifically could have.

Jesterhole
05-02-2012, 06:43 PM
We are trying to win now, so spending a 2 on a project QB who won't be ready to throw for at least a couple of years defeats the purpose of signing PM. The total lackluster quality of the rest of the our draft only makes me wish we had grabbed an impact guy even more.

SureShot
05-02-2012, 06:47 PM
7. Love it! Jack Elway is an excellent talent evaluator.

FireFly
05-02-2012, 06:53 PM
If you want any one to respond with their honest reasons for disliking the pick you probably shouldn't be so snarky with your options. You are making it very clear that you just want to start an argument and have no real interest in points of view other than your own.

QFT

The way the Poll is worded makes it clear that the OP is not after level discussion but rather has an axe to grind.

I don't mind the pick and I understand it, but I would have preferred to try to pick up a player that is actually going to contribute on the field this season. Every effort needs to be made in my opinion to win a SB in the next 3 years. The future can wait!

In response to the quip about our back up QB, I would have signed a veteran to fill the role. There were a couple of available a while back

CEH
05-02-2012, 06:55 PM
So did Rahim.moore McBath smith or Quinn have an impact
Franklin yes but to assume a different player will have an impact is a guessing game

We traded out of the first so the quality in EFX view was not there
What makes anyone think the starter quality is there at 57
IMO we got a 1st round qb a year early

OrangeSe7en
05-02-2012, 06:57 PM
Why do you hate the Osweiler pick? As best I can figure, you must hold one of these beliefs:

1. The Broncos should have never signed Peyton Manning. Tebow gives us the best chance to win.

2. We don't need a backup quarterback for our 36 year old starter who missed all of last season with a neck injury.

3. Tim Tebow would've been the perfect backup to Peyton, especially when you consider how much the current coaching staff loved him for the job!

4. Brock Osweiler would've been around at one of our later picks, because some guy at walter football or nfldraftcountdown.com said so.

5. We should have drafted some other quarterback; clearly taking the one that our entire front office thought was the best fit was a bad call.

6. We didn't need to draft a backup quarterback, we signed future all-pro Caleb Hanie!

It's kind of stupid to ask a question and then restrict their way to answer so that it must be in your terms. Do you want to know or not? Make it an essay. People can express themselves with their own words.

barryr
05-02-2012, 06:58 PM
I think the pick is dumb in that they just made a big deal of signing Manning and before he even throws a preseason pass, they spend a high draft choice on a QB, hoping he will be Manning replacement in 3 years or so. Plus, chances are there will be better QB prospects out there the Broncos could draft next draft. The only justification for taking Osweiler this high is you believe he will be a franchise QB and I don't know how many really see such a QB in him. But we'll see of course.

Play2win
05-02-2012, 07:12 PM
Interesting observation. Almost all scouts said this was an extremely weak draft after the top 20. Not sure where you can state so factually that next year's draft class will be weak.

Let's look at QBs next year.

Bray, TN
Barkley, USC
Jones, OU
Wilson, Ark
Smith, WVA
Manuel, FSU

Hmmm....

Barkley is who I really wanted, but after we got Peyton Manning (thank god!!), there's no realistic chance of that happening. Brock with 3+ years is great strategy and wonderful value, if he turns out like I think he will.

Mogulseeker
05-02-2012, 07:13 PM
I don't hate the pick per se. I just don't love where we took him. I don't believe that the difference between us winning and losing the superbowl hinged on us "wasting" our low second round pick on Brock. That's retarded.

This.... but.... remember, Brock goes to Cleveland at 22 if they pass on Weeden.

footstepsfrom#27
05-02-2012, 07:13 PM
The best time to draft a QB is when you really don't need him yet. I'd rather have Manning's succesor already here for a couple years rather than try to draft a guy down the road who might have to start immediately or within a year and he's not ready. This gives them ample opportunity to see the guy every day in practice and in the preseason for the next 2 or 3 seasons to be sure they have the right guy lined up already. If Denver's going to win a Superbowl it will be because Mannning is the same Manning he's always been, and I doubt not having a #2 pick out of this particular draft will make much difference. If we're lacking something we need, it seems likely Manning's presence alone ought to be beneficial enough to attract what we need to fill any hole that #2 pick might have left us with a veteran free agent who can do the job. I'm more interested in the fact that they are finally showing some interest in building a defensive front seven than they have before.

SonOfLe-loLang
05-02-2012, 07:14 PM
We are trying to win now, so spending a 2 on a project QB who won't be ready to throw for at least a couple of years defeats the purpose of signing PM. The total lackluster quality of the rest of the our draft only makes me wish we had grabbed an impact guy even more.

I would have preferred Randle here, but i dont know how a late second round pick defeats the purpose of signing Peyton Manning.

Play2win
05-02-2012, 07:15 PM
Absolutely love our QB situation compared to 6 months ago.

Its like we went from a F to an A+++++++++++++++

Play2win
05-02-2012, 07:17 PM
Its good business. Take the most mission-critical part of your team, and invest highly in it. Make it powerful and strong, then go ahead and strengthen support systems.

yerner
05-02-2012, 07:19 PM
He majored in Blumpkins.

Drek
05-02-2012, 07:58 PM
For your first point, I disagree. There's some good stuff here (http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/you-got-served-draft-groupthink) about draft value.
First off, you make fun of people using the opinions of professional draft experts to assess "overdrafting" Osweiler in your first post, then you use Its All Over Fat Man as a credible source in a rebuttal? That is cherry picking your sources at it's finest. What's worse, the entire point of the article is that you can't pick BPA because you have to pick based on need. Which was a key part of my previous post.

Brock Osweiler helps us win games WHEN? 2013? 2014? 2015?

Lavonte David is immediately the best cover LB on our team. He's versatile and can play both MLB and OLB. Our best cover LB from last year, DJ Williams, is trying to get a 6 game suspension overturned currently where the appellate body is the guy who suspended him. David is also a text book John Fox LB (not ideal size but fast and well rounded in all facets).

Casey Hayward obviously addresses the same need we brought Omar Bolden in for. I like Bolden, but he's a cross your fingers and hope the knee holds up prospect who hasn't played competitive football in over a year. Hayward would have immediately pushed for the #2 job and made us legitimately 4 deep at CB without huge health/rust concerns. Seeings how we got our asses handed to us by good passing teams last year it would seem to make sense to fix that weakness.

Rueben Randle is a big, athletic WR and he could have joined a team where the only established WRs are both entering just their third year, one with a very long medical history (DT) and the other coming off an injury that ended his 2011 season (Decker). Seeings how Manning lives out of 3 WR sets it might have been a good idea to give him three highly talented, young WRs to throw the ball to.

See my point? If you had the same grade on Osweiler as all of these guys you STILL don't take Osweiler if your goal is winning a title with Manning. And anyone who seriously had all three of these guys ranked the same or worse than Osweiler going into the draft smokes crack.

Sure, you can say that a rookie nickel linebacker would improve the Broncos more than a developmental quarterback. But I assure you that John Elway knows a whole hell of a lot more about those players, our desired scheme, the strengths and weakness of everyone on our current roster, and our organization's long term goals (and how best to get there) than any of us do.
Great. The old "well they get paid to do it, NYAH!" argument.

Do NFL player personnel guys make mistakes? Yep.

Has this FO made mistakes already in their short track record? Yep.

Have we seen any signs of player personnel genius to make us think that they're the smartest guys in the room? Nope.

The "they get paid to do this!" argument wasn't good enough for Josh McDaniels. Why is it suddenly good enough because Elway was a good player? So was Matt Millen. Ask Lions fans if he deserved the benefit of the doubt because he was paid to evaluate talent.

John Madden once said "I don't like when people call NFL guys geniuses. If it wasn't for the NFL all these guys would be teaching PE." I'd say that is a pretty damn accurate critique.

Here's one possible argument: Quarterback is the most important position in football. To get a "franchise" quarterback, you're spending a pick in the top half of the first round. To grab a kid at the end of the second round whose skillset you love and think is a perfect fit for what your team wants to do on the football field, you're getting great value.
Is Osweiler the only QB prospect in the next three years who fits this billing? I strongly doubt it. So why did we need this kind of guy in year one of the Manning era, with our second most valuable pick? This should have been a "load up with immediate contributors" draft. Elway says we're all in. So draft like it. Get us some Lombardis, not a QB project we won't see outside of pre-season for three years.

Sure he won't contribute immediately, but he gets to start learning immediately. And he's going to be learning from the of the two best quarterbacks of their respective generations.
1. No one learns behind Manning. He doesn't work with young QBs. Never has, never will. He's all about putting up W's, not helping some rookie learn to treat his diaper rash.
2. If John Elway has enough free time while RUNNING OUR PLAYER PERSONNEL DEPARTMENT to tutor a young QB then what the hell is he doing? Most GMs/VPs of Player Personnel, etc. talk about how it is an all consuming job year round. I love John Elway the QB as much as anyone but I have yet to see any proof that John Elway the person doesn't abide by the same requirements of sleep, caloric intake, etc. as the rest of us.

And if Peyton gets hurt 6 games into next year, yeah, Brock will almost certainly struggle. With either Brock or Hanie, we won't make the playoffs.
And with Tebow we just did.

But with Brock, unlike Hanie, it's not a wasted season. It's a year of experience for our quarterback of the future. It's a reason for people to not lose interest in the team. That, too, is valuable.
Same for Tebow.

For your second point, that Tebow was the best option at backup quarterback, I think we need to look again at scheme.
Sure, lets do just that.

Yes, Tim did very well this year. But did you notice how much praise Fox and McCoy got for completely overhauling the offensive scheme mid-year to accomodate the switch to Tebow? They got that praise because what they pulled off was very difficult. There simply aren't enough reps to install two completely different offenses.
You mean like they did last season? When McCoy by his own admission had Tebow helping him draw up plays? We transitioned from the offense McCoy installed throughout Camp to the "Tebow Offense" pretty damn quickly with zero pre-season prep. We could have had that same offense in our back pocket in case of emergency but instead of running it cold we would have already had last season as background work.

Especially when you're trying to invent and install an entirely new offense built around Peton Manning.
Again, takes zero time away from Manning's offense being installed.
You can't do it. So if you want to insert Tebow as a backup, you're going to lose a number of ballgames during that ramp-up time it takes to install the Tebow offense..
Immediately won 6 games in a row once they installed it mid-week last year. So yeah, where's your proof?

And even if you successfully make that transition again, you're working with a roster that is built for a very different offense.
You mean a roster that is 90% the same as last year?

Do you really think Joel Dreessen and Jacob Tamme would thrive in a heavily run-oriented read option attack? This defense is being built to play with a lead. If we try to play ball control football with Derek Wolfe and Justin Bannan at DT, we're going to lose a lot of ball games.
Dreesen is a damn good blocker, he's a good 1:1 replacement for Fells with better hands. We also didn't get to see how Tebow might do with a real receiving TE as J. Thomas was unhealthy during Tebow's time as a starter. Bannan is replacing Bunkley as a run control DT, so he fits the grind it out scheme. Wolfe is replacing McBean who played over half the defensive snaps last year. Wolfe is better in all facets day one than McBean was last year, including run support.

I think that, to give your football team the best chance to compete if Peyton Manning misses time (over the next few seasons), you've got to get a guy with some of the same skills who can play in the same offense.
Ok, let me know when we can add Tom Brady as our backup QB. Then we can talk.

Fact is, NO ONE is backing Peyton Manning up who can run his offense. That person doesn't exist because the handful of people on this planet who MIGHT be able to accomplish that are all busy running their own playoff contending teams in New England, New Orleans, and Green Bay.

Jon Gruden once asked Tom Moore why he let Peyton Manning take nearly every snap in practice. Moore's response was “Fellas, if ‘18’ goes down, we’re ****ed. And we don’t practice ****ed.”

Apparently the Broncos FO spends 2nd round picks for when they get "****ed".

broncocalijohn
05-02-2012, 08:50 PM
All of this.

I wasn't wild about the pick, but I'm not wildly against it, either. Nice to have a talented thrower waiting and hopefully learning behind Manning.

Pretty much here but I actually think Manning will be throwing for 3 seasons and we took the QBOTF one season too soon.
As for the OP, what a joke of choices. Why don't you think next time as a devil's advocate instead of being sarcastic. If you want a true poll, don't act like the LA Times.
Im giving out a rare neg rep for this thread.

Shananahan
05-02-2012, 09:02 PM
Pretty much here but I actually think Manning will be throwing for 3 seasons and we took the QBOTF one season too soon.
I tend to agree, but I'm fine with it. Maybe Osweiler will play lights-out in his limited chances the next two seasons and they could move him to select a blue-chip guy at that point.

Play2win
05-02-2012, 09:15 PM
Pretty much here but I actually think Manning will be throwing for 3 seasons and we took the QBOTF one season too soon.


I agree, but its better to pick our QBOTF one season too early, than one season too late.

Plus, I wouldn't rule out Peyton throwing for a good 4 or 5 more years.

broncocalijohn
05-02-2012, 09:17 PM
I agree, but its better to pick our QBOTF one season too early, than one season too late.

Plus, I wouldn't rule out Peyton throwing for a good 4 or 5 more years.

There will be a QB of the month club starting in August. If we want to win now, then get the player at #57 that will help us get the SB ring. EFX better be right on this one because he is sitting for awhile.

Goobzilla
05-02-2012, 09:23 PM
No impact until 2015 at the earliest....hopefully. We had numerous other areas of need and could have got a guy at 57 that could take the field now and help during this small window of opportunity.

baja
05-02-2012, 09:36 PM
I agree, but its better to pick our QBOTF one season too early, than one season too late.

Plus, I wouldn't rule out Peyton throwing for a good 4 or 5 more years.

If that is the case we can trade Oz hopefully for a bunch of picks.

Actually always grooming a starting QB can be a good way to garnish extra picks if your starter shows he has more mileage than anticipated.

Cito Pelon
05-02-2012, 09:37 PM
I think the pick is dumb in that they just made a big deal of signing Manning and before he even throws a preseason pass, they spend a high draft choice on a QB, hoping he will be Manning replacement in 3 years or so. Plus, chances are there will be better QB prospects out there the Broncos could draft next draft. The only justification for taking Osweiler this high is you believe he will be a franchise QB and I don't know how many really see such a QB in him. But we'll see of course.

That surmise is pretty iffy. Also, those possibly better prospects will require a LOT higher pick than #57.

Doggcow
05-02-2012, 09:42 PM
Stupid ****ing options. OP is obviously extremely bias. (I am too, but at least give SOME reasonable choices for us to pick)

We should have drafted a player that would play. If Osweiler plays, our season is shot anyway.

Osweiler has the same problems as Tebow, so the move is an oxymoron.

Also Osweiler just sucks.

Bacchus
05-02-2012, 10:31 PM
I'm sure they did not want Osweiler because they would have rather drafted a player that would help Manning win another SB. How is that not on your list up there. Oh, you just wanted to put stupid things up there as a joke.

BroncoMan4ever
05-02-2012, 10:39 PM
Is Osweiler the only QB prospect in the next three years who fits this billing? I strongly doubt it. So why did we need this kind of guy in year one of the Manning era, with our second most valuable pick? This should have been a "load up with immediate contributors" draft. Elway says we're all in. So draft like it. Get us some Lombardis, not a QB project we won't see outside of pre-season for three years.


1. No one learns behind Manning. He doesn't work with young QBs. Never has, never will. He's all about putting up W's, not helping some rookie learn to treat his diaper rash.
2. If John Elway has enough free time while RUNNING OUR PLAYER PERSONNEL DEPARTMENT to tutor a young QB then what the hell is he doing? Most GMs/VPs of Player Personnel, etc. talk about how it is an all consuming job year round. I love John Elway the QB as much as anyone but I have yet to see any proof that John Elway the person doesn't abide by the same requirements of sleep, caloric intake, etc. as the rest of us.


You mean like they did last season? When McCoy by his own admission had Tebow helping him draw up plays? We transitioned from the offense McCoy installed throughout Camp to the "Tebow Offense" pretty damn quickly with zero pre-season prep. We could have had that same offense in our back pocket in case of emergency but instead of running it cold we would have already had last season as background work.


Again, takes zero time away from Manning's offense being installed.

Immediately won 6 games in a row once they installed it mid-week last year. So yeah, where's your proof?


You mean a roster that is 90% the same as last year?


Dreesen is a damn good blocker, he's a good 1:1 replacement for Fells with better hands. We also didn't get to see how Tebow might do with a real receiving TE as J. Thomas was unhealthy during Tebow's time as a starter. Bannan is replacing Bunkley as a run control DT, so he fits the grind it out scheme. Wolfe is replacing McBean who played over half the defensive snaps last year. Wolfe is better in all facets day one than McBean was last year, including run support.



i hate that argument of Tebow won 6 straight games with a new offense nobody in the NFL had prepared for or seen since college or in some cases high school. guess what, the Dolphins won a bunch of games when they debuted the Wildcat a few years ago, and guess what, the gimmick got figured out. just the same as the Tebow offense was being stopped more and more towards the end of the season.

and give me a break with the Tebow didn't have a good receiving TE so we'll never know how that would look. even if Tebow had Tamme and Dreesen last year, or Tony Gonzalez, Hernandez or Gronkowski or even ****ing Shannon Sharpe, it wouldn't have made a bit of difference because he couldn't throw the ball worth a ****.

McCoy had no options last season other than to confer with the guy who couldn't run a traditional NFL gameplan and had to find out, just what could Tim do for the team. Tebow fans wouldn't accept letting Quinn run an NFL offense, so McCoy had to do something with Tim and since he can't throw it was time for the Option which Tim runs better than any other pro.

while i agree that drafting Osweiler is a contradiction to the we are in win now mode, there is no plan b talk from EFX, it is still a good move that the franchise isn't selling the long term plans of the team for a small window of opportunity with Peyton. i disagree with the he can't learn because Manning isn't interested in teaching him. while that may be true, he doesn't need Manning to tutor and mentor him and give all his knowledge. Osweiler can learn by watching how Peyton carries himself, how he studies film, his workout habits, the way he conducts an offense. he can learn a lot by being in close proximity to Peyton and Elway if he wants to.

i hate that everyone brings up, nobody ever learned from Peyton before. prior to his injury there was never a single QB brought into Indy with earlier than a 6th round pick i believe. every guy behind Manning was simply a, just in case guy. these guys were never brought in to learn, they were there to know the offense in case the worst happened. none of them were guys who had the talent or aspirations to be a starting NFL QB like Osweiler does.

there is a major difference in a guy who is in a place to learn for a few years until it is his time, and a guy who is there to cash a check and be around, "just in case"

BroncoMan4ever
05-02-2012, 10:42 PM
Stupid ****ing options. OP is obviously extremely bias. (I am too, but at least give SOME reasonable choices for us to pick)

We should have drafted a player that would play. If Osweiler plays, our season is shot anyway.

Osweiler has the same problems as Tebow, so the move is an oxymoron.

Also Osweiler just sucks.

Osweiler can throw the ball though. he has the ability to make just about every NFL throw right now. Tebow couldn't do that.

Agamemnon
05-03-2012, 12:50 AM
if that were true, Peyton wouldn't have chosen Denver to finish his career.

there is talent on the roster. the defense last year was vastly improved over years prior. we added another elite defensive mind to the staff in Del Rio. we added major weaponry to the TE position, our young receiving duo is another year more experienced and for the 1st time in their careers have a great QB throwing them the ball. this is a team that with a QB who couldn't pass the ball last season won its division and a playoff game. this team is ready to kick some ass with its new leader.

You, like many on this board, are seriously deluded regarding the talent on this team. I mean let's look at it:

QB: A (assuming Manning is really able to return to his previous form)
RB: C (McGahee is a decent back for his age, but after him there's not much, unless Hillman really comes on)
WR: C (could get better in terms of potential, but right now they are all unproven or just plain bad)
OL: C- (spotty at best, with interior blockers who have no business starting in the NFL)
TE: B (good depth and overall quality, but no elite guy)

CB: B+ (Bailey is still damn good and Porter is solid, but overall this is only a good unit, not a great one)
S: D (We have a bunch of mostly unproven players here mixed in with flat out terrible ones--Quinton Carter is the only reason I don't give this unit an F)
LB: C+ (Von Miller is awesome, but Mays is terrible and Williams is probably as good as gone)
DL: C- (Dumervil is great at rushing the passer and mediocre at everything else and Wolfe has potential, but everyone else is just plain bad)

K: B+ (Prater is clutch, but at the same time he has consistency issues)
P: A- (Colquiit is a very good punter just short of elite)

In 14 years Manning won one Super Bowl with the Colts, and throughout most of that time they had better rosters than what we have right now. We have three or so years to do what took them nearly a decade to accomplish, and with a Manning who is likely in decline. If we were really serious about winning a Super Bowl before he retires, we had no business drafting a QB in the 2nd round.

Seriously, no one with any football knowledge can look at our roster and conclude that we are a serious contender. Period.

Taco John
05-03-2012, 01:24 AM
Seriously, no one with any football knowledge can look at our roster and conclude that we are a serious contender. Period.

No one with any football knowledge could look at our roster and conclude that we'd beat the Steelers in the playoffs, let alone have a home game. They play the games for a reason.

Agamemnon
05-03-2012, 01:28 AM
No one with any football knowledge could look at our roster and conclude that we'd beat the Steelers in the playoffs, let alone have a home game. They play the games for a reason.

Sure, and I'm not saying it's not possible they go all the way somehow (highly improbable, but not impossible). But our roster needed impact players like a dying man in the desert needs water, and we drafted Osweiler instead. This is why many of us hate the pick.

sgbfan
05-03-2012, 01:31 AM
I haven't read through all of the posts but I did not like the pick at all when it happened. I have warmed up to it by now (mostly because he is now a Bronco, so I'm a fan, much like with Peyton, couldn't stand the guy before, now his commercials are even funnier).

I didn't like the pick for 2 reasons, neither of which are listed on your 6 options.

1. I don't think a QBOTF needs 3-5 years. Don't give me the Aaron Rodgers BS, because we don't know what he would have been if he had a chance earlier.

2. I wanted to have a stronger team around Peyton Manning this year and the QBOTF when he takes over. I felt like getting a strong player (preferably D imo) this year in the 2nd makes the team better and more solid in 3-4 years than the player we will get in 1-2 years instead of another QBOTF (This is tough to say and is an extreme hypothetical, but its my opinion).

Now that he is on the team, I am a fan and hope the best. I like how the rest of the draft filled needs as best as possible (imo) with greater emphasis on greater areas of need.

Mogulseeker
05-03-2012, 01:54 AM
That surmise is pretty iffy. Also, those possibly better prospects will require a LOT higher pick than #57.

Ozzy was a good value at 57 IMO, based on a number of factors - deep QB class, not throwing at the combine.

Drek
05-03-2012, 04:13 AM
i hate that argument of Tebow won 6 straight games with a new offense nobody in the NFL had prepared for or seen since college or in some cases high school. guess what, the Dolphins won a bunch of games when they debuted the Wildcat a few years ago, and guess what, the gimmick got figured out. just the same as the Tebow offense was being stopped more and more towards the end of the season.
1. It won a playoff game when they finally opened the passing up a little.

2. The Dolphins successfully used the wildcat infrequently since then to steal a few games here and there.

Your point might hold true if we were to run that offense exactly as McCoy was calling it late in the regular season last year for a whole 16 game schedule. But that wouldn't happen. It would be a stop gap that in theory would only be necessary for a few games at a time, or as a bridge to finish a season if Manning's career is ended, at which point we have Tebow to complete with other QBs in a real offense.

This isn't too aweful hard of a concept. You do not replace Manning in his system, just doesn't happen. But you also don't replace Tebow in his. Everything thinking they had it "figured out" is what got the Steelers torched last year.

You also base your entire argument around Tim Tebow not being able to improve on the very things that every young QB needs to improve on (decision making, reading defenses, etc.) and use a blanket statement like "he can't throw" to defend the lack of receiving talent he was working with last year. Not exactly sound logic, as it relies on Tebow being unable to improve while every other young player can.


there is a major difference in a guy who is in a place to learn for a few years until it is his time, and a guy who is there to cash a check and be around, "just in case"
So Painter had no designs on being a successful NFL QB and he was just there cashing paychecks? Kerry Collins, an established NFL player with many years of experience, didn't look completely lost in the limited time he tried to run that same offense?

Fact is Peyton's biggest talent as a QB isn't his arm strength, accuracy, or anything you can measure physically. Its his sky high football IQ and his offense is designed around that. It isn't something just anyone can run. We likely won't be running it with Osweiler whenever he does start, at least not a fully fleshed out version.

Notice how QBs don't call their own plays anymore? Peyton Manning basically still does and even then alters it pre-snap. You just don't replace that from the modern talent pool available.

Gort
05-03-2012, 07:53 AM
Osweiler can throw the ball though. he has the ability to make just about every NFL throw right now. Tebow couldn't do that.

not true.

it's this sort hyperbole by the Tebow haters that made me want to defend the guy. criticizing him legitimately is one thing, making up things to criticize him for is something else.

Tebow can make every NFL throw as well. the knock on Tebow was his footwork in the pocket and his throwing mechanics (slow release). when Tebow suffered from accuracy problems, it was because we were changing his mechanics.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d828959ae/printable/jets-receiver-tim-tebow-brings-fastball-to-workouts

TonyR
05-03-2012, 11:00 AM
Not agreeing (or disagreeing) with this, just read it today and passing along for consumption.


They also spent a mid-round pick on Wisconsin starter Russell Wilson, speculating against one of the league's widest-held biases, the tall quarterback. Wilson's 10 times the player Broncos second-rounder Brock Osweiler is, but because Osweiler is annoying to sit behind at the movies, Osweiler was chosen first of the two.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/25557/which-nfl-teams-got-better-this-offseason

BroncoMan4ever
05-03-2012, 11:38 AM
1. It won a playoff game when they finally opened the passing up a little.

2. The Dolphins successfully used the wildcat infrequently since then to steal a few games here and there.

Your point might hold true if we were to run that offense exactly as McCoy was calling it late in the regular season last year for a whole 16 game schedule. But that wouldn't happen. It would be a stop gap that in theory would only be necessary for a few games at a time, or as a bridge to finish a season if Manning's career is ended, at which point we have Tebow to complete with other QBs in a real offense.

This isn't too aweful hard of a concept. You do not replace Manning in his system, just doesn't happen. But you also don't replace Tebow in his. Everything thinking they had it "figured out" is what got the Steelers torched last year.

You also base your entire argument around Tim Tebow not being able to improve on the very things that every young QB needs to improve on (decision making, reading defenses, etc.) and use a blanket statement like "he can't throw" to defend the lack of receiving talent he was working with last year. Not exactly sound logic, as it relies on Tebow being unable to improve while every other young player can.



So Painter had no designs on being a successful NFL QB and he was just there cashing paychecks? Kerry Collins, an established NFL player with many years of experience, didn't look completely lost in the limited time he tried to run that same offense?

Fact is Peyton's biggest talent as a QB isn't his arm strength, accuracy, or anything you can measure physically. Its his sky high football IQ and his offense is designed around that. It isn't something just anyone can run. We likely won't be running it with Osweiler whenever he does start, at least not a fully fleshed out version.

Notice how QBs don't call their own plays anymore? Peyton Manning basically still does and even then alters it pre-snap. You just don't replace that from the modern talent pool available.

we saw what Tebow could do when competing for a job in a real NFL offense. he crumbled and was number 3 on the depth chart. The Dolphins bring out the wildcat on a few plays every now and then. With Tebow the Tebow offense is all he has shown an ability to run. and give me a break on the we figured it out against the Steelers crap. the Steelers played one of the most moronic defenses that day and got burned for it in the end.

I base my argument about Tebow on the fact that he was in Denver for 2 years and had NFL coaching and personal coaching for both years, yet there was not one bit of improvement in his game, if anything he regressed from the 3 game bit at the end of the 2010 season to the 2011 season. and i hate the complaints about the receiving talent. Decker looked good when Orton was throwing him the damn ball. DT was a league leader in a group of receiving catergories over the last month of the season. so many overlook that a majority of Tebow's passes were at the feet, behind, too far in front, in the sidelines or 5 yards over head and prefer to blame the receiving corps.

the Colts problem with their QBs was they were trying to run the Peyton offense. they needed to scale it back to the level of inferior talents trying to do it. that is on them. while Osweiler is here to learn behind Manning, he won't be expected to be Manning when Peyton is done. some of Peyton's offense will remain, but it won't be the entire thing, it will be the things Osweiler can do best.

and Painter was a 6th round pick. he may have had dreams of one day taking the big job, but he knew he was nothing more than a backup.

BroncoMan4ever
05-03-2012, 11:42 AM
not true.

it's this sort hyperbole by the Tebow haters that made me want to defend the guy. criticizing him legitimately is one thing, making up things to criticize him for is something else.

Tebow can make every NFL throw as well. the knock on Tebow was his footwork in the pocket and his throwing mechanics (slow release). when Tebow suffered from accuracy problems, it was because we were changing his mechanics.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d828959ae/printable/jets-receiver-tim-tebow-brings-fastball-to-workouts

did you watch any games this past year?

just because Tebow could throw the ball in perfect conditions doesn't mean he'd be on target. accuracy issues mean, he couldn't make the throws, which means he couldn't make all the NFL throws necessary to be a good QB.

BroncoBeavis
05-03-2012, 11:43 AM
With Tebow the Tebow offense is all he has shown an ability to run. and give me a break on the we figured it out against the Steelers crap. the Steelers played one of the most moronic defenses that day and got burned for it in the end.

And yet DT still wasn't getting all that open. You must be really worried about DT now that he'll be doubled every play.

BroncoBeavis
05-03-2012, 11:45 AM
did you watch any games this past year?

just because Tebow could throw the ball in perfect conditions doesn't mean he'd be on target. accuracy issues mean, he couldn't make the throws, which means he couldn't make all the NFL throws necessary to be a good QB.

Did you watch that ASU-BSU game?

Blart
05-03-2012, 12:00 PM
It's a bad pick.

Caleb will still be 2nd string this season, because the guy has NFL and playoff experience. I watched Bears games, he's decent.

Brock is a project that has a small chance of paying off several years down the road. More likely, EFX will fall in love with a hot new young QB by the time Manning is ready to retire (men are so fickle!), and spend a 1st round pick.

I'll put money on this: we'll never see Brock start a game in a Broncos uniform.

Goobzilla
05-03-2012, 12:26 PM
Spend a 2nd now to get a conditional 4th for him in a couple years when Elway wants another new toy.

TheReverend
05-03-2012, 12:56 PM
Not agreeing (or disagreeing) with this, just read it today and passing along for consumption.


They also spent a mid-round pick on Wisconsin starter Russell Wilson, speculating against one of the league's widest-held biases, the tall quarterback. Wilson's 10 times the player Broncos second-rounder Brock Osweiler is, but because Osweiler is annoying to sit behind at the movies, Osweiler was chosen first of the two.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/25557/which-nfl-teams-got-better-this-offseason

Well obviously. Wilson threw 73% and 33 TD to 4 INTs against dramatically superior defenses than Brock and has a shelf full of more awards and success in his collegiate career to show for it.

...but that was Brock has a LOT less game experience so it's not a truly fair comparison, imo.

Shananahan
05-03-2012, 01:00 PM
How could you not agree with that statement? If Wilson were four inches taller he'd be gone early in the first.

TonyR
05-03-2012, 01:13 PM
How could you not agree with that statement?

I've honestly never seen either QB play so I'm not in a position to agree or disagree.

DBroncos4life
05-03-2012, 01:37 PM
How could you not agree with that statement? If Wilson were four inches taller he'd be gone early in the first.

Fact is Wilson will never get taller while Os can become a more polished player.

BroncoBeavis
05-03-2012, 01:40 PM
Fact is Wilson will never get taller while Os can become a more polished player.

No, he can't. He is what he is.

Mile High Salute
05-03-2012, 01:42 PM
Why do you hate the Osweiler pick? As best I can figure, you must hold one of these beliefs:

1. The Broncos should have never signed Peyton Manning. Tebow gives us the best chance to win.

2. We don't need a backup quarterback for our 36 year old starter who missed all of last season with a neck injury.

3. Tim Tebow would've been the perfect backup to Peyton, especially when you consider how much the current coaching staff loved him for the job!

4. Brock Osweiler would've been around at one of our later picks, because some guy at walter football or nfldraftcountdown.com said so.

5. We should have drafted some other quarterback; clearly taking the one that our entire front office thought was the best fit was a bad call.

6. We didn't need to draft a backup quarterback, we signed future all-pro Caleb Hanie!

This is a flawed poll (obviously given the tone it is clear what you're opinion is). That aside, I'd say it's partly #4 and #5. If the Broncos were going to draft a QB, I don't think Osweiler was the best choice at that pick. If they were set on Osweiler, it seemed like a reach to take him in the 2nd. They could have gotten him in the 3rd round.

But the most important reason in my mind (which is not in your poll, but should be), is that the Broncos didn't have to draft a QB this year. Manning is on a 5-yr contract - Osweiler will be on a 4-yr contract. In my mind there was no need to use such a high selection on a "project QB" when the Broncos have so many other needs and are (allegedly) trying to win a Super Bowl NOW. Remember Elway? "No plan B - we're going with plan A." I would've much rather seen the Broncos use that pick to shore up our defense. The QBOTF could've been drafted next year or even the year after that, which would still give him 2 years to learn behind Manning. And I don't think anyone thought Osweiler was that much of a "can't miss" prospect that he will be better than whoever the Broncos can get a year or two from now.

So those are basically the reasons I hated the pick. Oh yeah, that and the fact that he's Elway's son's BFF and looks like the dude from Twilight. :notthissh

BroncoBeavis
05-03-2012, 01:42 PM
Spend a 2nd now to get a conditional 4th for him in a couple years when Elway wants another new toy.

Nate Montana baby! He'll be like the son John never had [quit football]

lolcopter
05-03-2012, 01:54 PM
No, he can't. He is what he is.

But tebow can right?

Idiot

BroncoBeavis
05-03-2012, 02:01 PM
But tebow can right?

Idiot

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony

Dedhed
05-03-2012, 02:03 PM
if we really are on Plan A and there is no Plan B

That is a ludicrous statement.

Having no contingency plan for an aging and injured QB, who is basically on a one year deal, would be the epitome of stupidity.

TheReverend
05-03-2012, 02:04 PM
But tebow can right?

Idiot

Wow that went over your head. That was exactly the response Beavis was fishing for... his post was satire of **** like this.

Owned, sir.

Requiem
05-03-2012, 02:11 PM
Get out!

BroncoInferno
05-03-2012, 02:15 PM
Not agreeing (or disagreeing) with this, just read it today and passing along for consumption.


They also spent a mid-round pick on Wisconsin starter Russell Wilson, speculating against one of the league's widest-held biases, the tall quarterback. Wilson's 10 times the player Broncos second-rounder Brock Osweiler is, but because Osweiler is annoying to sit behind at the movies, Osweiler was chosen first of the two.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/25557/which-nfl-teams-got-better-this-offseason

I couldn't find the stat to verify, but Pete Carroll claimed in a presser that Wilson had fewer balls batted down than any of the QBs taken ahead of him. He does seem to have a knack for finding passing lanes.

lolcopter
05-03-2012, 02:32 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony

That wasnt ironic either, idiot. Maybe sarcasm is what you meant?

Gort
05-03-2012, 02:37 PM
That is a ludicrous statement.

Having no contingency plan for an aging and injured QB, who is basically on a one year deal, would be the epitome of stupidity.

Elway said it. he said Manning was Plan A and there was no Plan B. if you have a problem with that, take it up with him.

for backups, we already have 2 on the roster that are more ready to step in if Manning gets hurt than Brock.

Gort
05-03-2012, 02:40 PM
BTW, you guys carelessly throwing out insults ought to check out the locked thread on the main page. one of the mods is handing out bans like candy on Halloween because he's sick of the insulting tone on the site.

TheReverend
05-03-2012, 02:42 PM
Doesn't change the fact that he'd gargle tebow's balls given the first opportunity

...Really?

That's what you're gonna go with?

lolcopter
05-03-2012, 02:45 PM
...Really?

That's what you're gonna go with?

Because half the people hating on a 2nd round QB who won't see the field for a few seasons are doing so because they're still butthurt about losing the golden boy

As if our second second round pick is going to be the make or break decision of the 2012 season

TheReverend
05-03-2012, 02:46 PM
Because half the people hating on a 2nd round QB who won't see the field for a few seasons are doing so because they're still butthurt about losing the golden boy

...or they're "butthurt" for what you said yourself in this very post.

I'd also add "if ever"

PS. I'm a Brock fan before you accuse me of "gargling balls" or whatever witty retort may come.

BroncoBeavis
05-03-2012, 02:47 PM
That wasnt ironic either, idiot. Maybe sarcasm is what you meant?

Dude just stop. Sarcasm's hard to pick up in writing... it happens.

But if you want to keep up the deflecting, go ahead and read the article I posted. It talks about sarcasm being a form of irony (usually)

lolcopter
05-03-2012, 02:48 PM
PS. I'm a Brock fan before you accuse me of "gargling balls" or whatever witty retort may come.

Beavis's infatuations are well know. It's cute of him to stay around though

lolcopter
05-03-2012, 02:49 PM
Dude just stop. Sarcasm's hard to pick up in writing... it happens.

But if you want to keep up the deflecting, go ahead and read the article I posted. It talks about sarcasm being a form of irony (usually)

Still not irony

The only thing that could possibly be interpretted as irony would be that being a serious response coming from you

Shananahan
05-03-2012, 02:50 PM
Fact is Wilson will never get taller while Os can become a more polished player.
Obviously, and that's why he was drafted higher.

I was just saying.

BroncoBeavis
05-03-2012, 02:52 PM
Because half the people hating on a 2nd round QB who won't see the field for a few seasons are doing so because they're still butthurt about losing the golden boy

You do realize this whole thread is designed to get just the reaction you're complaining about. Maybe you should take it up with OP.

lolcopter
05-03-2012, 02:54 PM
You do realize this whole thread is designed to get just the reaction you're complaining about. Maybe you should take it up with OP.

Nooooo I had no ideaaa

BroncoBeavis
05-03-2012, 02:57 PM
Still not irony

The only thing that could possibly be interpretted as irony would be that being a serious response coming from you

Alright, here we go...

Verbal irony is a statement in which the meaning that a speaker employs is sharply different from the meaning that is ostensibly expressed. The ironic statement usually involves the explicit expression of one attitude or evaluation, but with indications in the overall speech-situation that the speaker intends a very different, and often opposite, attitude or evaluation.

I literally said Brock can't improve even though I (obviously) really meant the opposite.

And voila, we have irony.

baja
05-03-2012, 03:00 PM
I guess Old Dude has exempted this thread from the ban hammer.

BroncoMan4ever
05-03-2012, 03:12 PM
And yet DT still wasn't getting all that open. You must be really worried about DT now that he'll be doubled every play.

Not going to be concerned if.he does get double coverage. Because Peyton can spread the ball and go through progressions. Meaning Decker is open, Tamme, Dreesen, Caldwell, new RB, McGahee, Moreno or Willis someone will be open for a well thrown pass. This isn't Orton or Tim locking on to 1 guy anymore

baja
05-03-2012, 03:14 PM
Not going to be concerned if.he does get double coverage. Because Peyton can spread the ball and go through progressions. Meaning Decker is open, Tamme, Dreesen, Caldwell, new RB, McGahee, Moreno or Willis someone will be open for a well thrown pass. This isn't Orton or Tim locking on to 1 guy anymore

many posters here are missing this and it is HUGE

Sideburn
05-03-2012, 03:16 PM
we saw what Tebow could do when competing for a job in a real NFL offense. he crumbled and was number 3 on the depth chart. The Dolphins bring out the wildcat on a few plays every now and then. With Tebow the Tebow offense is all he has shown an ability to run. and give me a break on the we figured it out against the Steelers crap. the Steelers played one of the most moronic defenses that day and got burned for it in the end.

I base my argument about Tebow on the fact that he was in Denver for 2 years and had NFL coaching and personal coaching for both years, yet there was not one bit of improvement in his game, if anything he regressed from the 3 game bit at the end of the 2010 season to the 2011 season. and i hate the complaints about the receiving talent. Decker looked good when Orton was throwing him the damn ball. DT was a league leader in a group of receiving catergories over the last month of the season. so many overlook that a majority of Tebow's passes were at the feet, behind, too far in front, in the sidelines or 5 yards over head and prefer to blame the receiving corps.

the Colts problem with their QBs was they were trying to run the Peyton offense. they needed to scale it back to the level of inferior talents trying to do it. that is on them. while Osweiler is here to learn behind Manning, he won't be expected to be Manning when Peyton is done. some of Peyton's offense will remain, but it won't be the entire thing, it will be the things Osweiler can do best.

and Painter was a 6th round pick. he may have had dreams of one day taking the big job, but he knew he was nothing more than a backup.

I guess you blacked out during the lockout when Tebow would have trained and learned with coaches and coordinators during the time period in a players life where he makes the largest strides.
Don't let that complicate the hate though.

Agamemnon
05-03-2012, 03:43 PM
Doesn't change the fact that he'd gargle tebow's balls given the first opportunity

Why does it feel like all the Tebow-haters go this route as soon as the stupidity of their position gets exposed? It's kind of fascinating on a psychological level.

Agamemnon
05-03-2012, 03:45 PM
many posters here are missing this and it is HUGE

Who is missing that? I though that was the whole reason we went and signed Manning. We certainly didn't sign him for his cannon arm or his ability to scramble.

lolcopter
05-03-2012, 03:47 PM
Why does it feel like all the Tebow-haters go this route as soon as the stupidity of their position gets exposed? It's kind of fascinating on a psychological level.

What's fascinating is all the love for a ny jet and hate for a Denver bronco on a Denver broncos forum

baja
05-03-2012, 03:49 PM
Who is missing that? I though that was the whole reason we went and signed Manning. We certainly didn't sign him for his cannon arm or his ability to scramble.

I'm talking about the "making everyone else better" syndrome.

maher_tyler
05-03-2012, 04:23 PM
none of the above. why do you assume the Broncos franchise MUST have Brock Osweiler as their QBOTF or the future of the franchise is in jeopardy?

the pick was a reach. both where he was taken and why he was taken.

if we really are on Plan A and there is no Plan B, then EVERY move, EVERY SINGLE move for the next 2-4 years must be made to pursue one outcome and only one outcome, to win 1 or more SB titles with Peyton Manning. picking Brock in the 2nd doesn't help us do that. not even the slightest amount.

that's why the whole football world outside of Dove Valley scratched their heads over this pick.

So when PM hangings it up who plays QB if we didn't draft a QB at some point before then?? A rookie?? A washed up vet??

TheReverend
05-03-2012, 04:34 PM
What's fascinating is all the love for a ny jet and hate for a Denver bronco on a Denver broncos forum

I'm missing this "hate"

Care to quote some?

gyldenlove
05-03-2012, 04:39 PM
I'm missing this "hate"

Care to quote some?

...hate...

There you go my friend :flower:

BroncoMan4ever
05-03-2012, 04:40 PM
I guess you blacked out during the lockout when Tebow would have trained and learned with coaches and coordinators during the time period in a players life where he makes the largest strides.
Don't let that complicate the hate though.

I guess you are forgetting after college he was working with coaches to get him NFL ready and then he had a full offseason and season to learn. Then once the lockout happened he worked with Mazzone and then had shortened offseason workouts with the team and still a full season of work. Don't give that bull**** about missing mini camps, because he has had NFL training and the lockout didnt affect rookies like Newton or Dalton.

lolcopter
05-03-2012, 04:41 PM
I'm missing this "hate"

Care to quote some?

Question for those who hate the Osweiler pick... page 6

TheReverend
05-03-2012, 04:48 PM
Question for those who hate the Osweiler pick... page 6

You mean 6 pages of people mocking the OP's retarded poll options?

Agamemnon
05-03-2012, 05:27 PM
What's fascinating is all the love for a ny jet and hate for a Denver bronco on a Denver broncos forum

No what's fascinating is the Bronco fans who want to act like that NY Jet wasn't ever a Bronco or that he didn't help get us our first playoff victory in six years after taking over a listless 1-4 team. That's what's fascinating.

Agamemnon
05-03-2012, 05:30 PM
I'm talking about the "making everyone else better" syndrome.

Oh is that something this franchise values? That's news to me...

Shananahan
05-03-2012, 05:32 PM
He's gone, dude.

Agamemnon
05-03-2012, 05:35 PM
He's gone, dude.

No ****. Any other news?

oubronco
05-03-2012, 05:47 PM
No what's fascinating is the Bronco fans who want to act like that NY Jet wasn't ever a Bronco or that he didn't help get us our first playoff victory in six years after taking over a listless 1-4 team. That's what's fascinating.

Let it Goooooooooooo!!!!!

sgbfan
05-03-2012, 05:48 PM
Question for those who hate the Osweiler pick... page 6

Because hating the 1 pick means that you automatically hate the FO and the entire broncos organization, love Tim Tebow, and think that he should be exhaulted to the HOF as a 3rd year quarterback who has never started an opening game.

Shananahan
05-03-2012, 05:54 PM
No ****. Any other news?
He's not coming back.

TheFullTebow
05-03-2012, 05:58 PM
Let it Goooooooooooo!!!!!
Never!

Archer81
05-03-2012, 06:01 PM
Never!

...

Avatar is so confusing...

:Broncos:

TheFullTebow
05-03-2012, 06:14 PM
...

Avatar is so confusing...

:Broncos:
It's an awesome pic that wasn't being used anymore so I took it. To remind people that they had greatness and traded him away for damaged goods

Archer81
05-03-2012, 06:19 PM
It's an awesome pic that wasn't being used anymore so I took it. To remind people that they had greatness and traded him away for damaged goods


No. A different poster had that as his avy for a long time. It threw me for a second.

:Broncos:

bowtown
05-03-2012, 06:38 PM
Should have waited to the 6th round to pick Luck.

Shananahan
05-03-2012, 06:42 PM
It's an awesome pic that wasn't being used anymore so I took it. To remind people that they had greatness and traded him away for damaged goods
You joined last December, probably as soon as Denver made the playoffs.

Go find a support forum for sports fans who missed the bandwagon or something.

TheReverend
05-03-2012, 06:57 PM
No. A different poster had that as his avy for a long time. It threw me for a second.

:Broncos:

He knows. The post you quoted is referencing that.

Archer81
05-03-2012, 08:25 PM
He knows. The post you quoted is referencing that.


I must be slow. I thought for a second you changed your user name. You should have copyrighted that picture.

:Broncos:

Requiem
05-03-2012, 08:28 PM
http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lotv8zxSqq1r0u8ydo1_500.gif

Dedhed
05-03-2012, 08:39 PM
Elway said it. he said Manning was Plan A and there was no Plan B. if you have a problem with that, take it up with him.Please notice that you're talking about FA, not the draft.


for backups, we already have 2 on the roster that are more ready to step in if Manning gets hurt than Brock.
Osweiler was not drafted to be a backup.

CEH
05-03-2012, 09:09 PM
Elway pretty much anointed brock backup qb
He said manning wanted to know who the backup was
Now you know it's brock

TheReverend
05-03-2012, 09:14 PM
I must be slow. I thought for a second you changed your user name. You should have copyrighted that picture.

:Broncos:

I wish I could. I still love it.

Was just time to let it go :(

errand
05-03-2012, 10:18 PM
Not going to be concerned if.he does get double coverage. Because Peyton can spread the ball and go through progressions. Meaning Decker is open, Tamme, Dreesen, Caldwell, new RB, McGahee, Moreno or Willis someone will be open for a well thrown pass. This isn't Orton or Tim locking on to 1 guy anymore

Its amazing how some of these clowns act like they've never watch peyton manning throw a football in a game before...... he's like an offensive coordinator that can play quarterback. He'll find the open man.... that's a given

barryr
05-03-2012, 10:26 PM
Its amazing how some of these clowns act like they've never watch peyton manning throw a football in a game before...... he's like an offensive coordinator that can play quarterback. He'll find the open man.... that's a given

Can one day go by where you aren't calling Bronco fans names? It is rather old by now.

Archer81
05-03-2012, 10:30 PM
Can one day go by where you aren't calling Bronco fans names? It is rather old by now.


Clownshoes. Total clownshoes.

:Broncos:

errand
05-03-2012, 10:38 PM
What's fascinating is all the love for a ny jet and hate for a Denver bronco on a Denver broncos forum

LOL ..... I recall we had posters on here cheering jay cutler for beating the broncos in a meaningless preseason game......

I predict that if peyton manning loses on opening day, (actually any week) and the jets backup quarterback comes off the bench and rallies his team for a win, this forum will be swamped with all kinds of posts lamenting how we never should have got rid of Tim and how we wasted all that money to sign peyton... trust me these clowns will be back in here spouting their bull**** about how great tim tebow is

errand
05-03-2012, 10:51 PM
Can one day go by where you aren't calling Bronco fans names? It is rather old by now.

First off you need to realize they're not bronco fans as much as they're tim tebow fans....

And secondly as many times as I ( and others) have been called names you can go screw yourself.... I never noticed your call for civility when one of them call me or others "names"..... not to mention what they call other bronco players and john elway

And finally calling someone a clown isn't half as bad as some of the names they've tossed about....

Archer81
05-03-2012, 10:58 PM
I still think it was a mistake to trade Tebow. I still think he has tons of potential. He, however, was not Elway's guy. I do think that people who still use "Teblow" or question people's fanhood for liking Tebow is a bit lame. Teams pick up fans of particular players all the time. This is not new. tebow's fanbase did not "tear the team apart". I think 5 seasons without a playoff birth did that. Coaching and philosophy changes did that.

I do question the wisdom of trading a project player in Tebow and drafting another one in Osweiler, who has already been crowned QBOTF without playing a single snap for the Denver Broncos. Brock might be great. But what happens if Tebow is great as well? I'm sick of taking QB's high and then within 3 years send them somewhere else. Its a sickening pattern.

I doubt my opinion will change any minds. People have been more or less set in their opinion of Tebow since he was drafted. But he's gone now, and both sides should probably just let it go. Move forward. We have Manning, added parts to the defense. Let's see what we have and get the season on a roll already.

:Broncos:

Requiem
05-03-2012, 11:00 PM
Drafting him was a mistake, trading him was a mistake, especially when you replaced him with a guy who might never even have that type of game changing potential. ****, I hope the Brockstomeister can mail it in, but I'm praying for 3 solid years of Peyton Manning. All and all, if Brock ever does start for us, at least he will be half as young as Brandon Weeden was before he took his first Brown's snap. :~ohyah!:

barryr
05-03-2012, 11:14 PM
First off you need to realize they're not bronco fans as much as they're tim tebow fans....

And secondly as many times as I ( and others) have been called names you can go screw yourself.... I never noticed your call for civility when one of them call me or others "names"..... not to mention what they call other bronco players and john elway

And finally calling someone a clown isn't half as bad as some of the names they've tossed about....

You have this fixation with "Tebow fans" which is also gotten old. You stated more than once glad Tebow was traded so "his fans" would leave, yet you are still talking about them and Tebow has been gone awhile. And when someone acts as you do, pretty hard to find anyone that is going to go all out and defend you, especially with your "screw you" type retorts. But it appears if not about Tebow, you'd find other reasons to need to call other fans of this team stupid names every day of the week. Great fan you are.

TonyR
05-04-2012, 07:20 AM
Here's a recent overview of Osweiler.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/beyond-shutdown-50-brock-osweiler-qb-denver-broncos-180225997.html

Drek
05-04-2012, 02:22 PM
Here's a recent overview of Osweiler.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/beyond-shutdown-50-brock-osweiler-qb-denver-broncos-180225997.html

Worst article I've seen in a while. A 24 year old QB will suddenly lack the athleticism he had when he was 21?

barryr
05-04-2012, 08:56 PM
Worst article I've seen in a while. A 24 year old QB will suddenly lack the athleticism he had when he was 21?

Agreed, that would be the least of his worries if even true or made sense. Reading defenses and accuracy will determine if he makes it at QB or not.

Shananahan
05-04-2012, 09:10 PM
Worst article I've seen in a while. A 24 year old QB will suddenly lack the athleticism he had when he was 21?
Vick must have ran a four-second forty when he was drafted.

DBroncos4life
05-04-2012, 10:06 PM
Vick must have ran a four-second forty when he was drafted.

Killing dogs at a faster rate too.

OrangeSe7en
05-05-2012, 11:42 AM
I still think it was a mistake to trade Tebow. I still think he has tons of potential. He, however, was not Elway's guy. I do think that people who still use "Teblow" or question people's fanhood for liking Tebow is a bit lame. Teams pick up fans of particular players all the time. This is not new. tebow's fanbase did not "tear the team apart". I think 5 seasons without a playoff birth did that. Coaching and philosophy changes did that.

I do question the wisdom of trading a project player in Tebow and drafting another one in Osweiler, who has already been crowned QBOTF without playing a single snap for the Denver Broncos. Brock might be great. But what happens if Tebow is great as well? I'm sick of taking QB's high and then within 3 years send them somewhere else. Its a sickening pattern.

I doubt my opinion will change any minds. People have been more or less set in their opinion of Tebow since he was drafted. But he's gone now, and both sides should probably just let it go. Move forward. We have Manning, added parts to the defense. Let's see what we have and get the season on a roll already.

:Broncos:

I agree with this. Elway criticized McDaniels for trading Cutler but in the end Elway was no better than McDaniels. And what's worse is that Elway challenged the fanhood of Broncos fans when criticizing trading Tebow. It's like Elway felt threatened by Tebow's popularity and was making it about him (Elway).

Drek
05-05-2012, 11:55 AM
Vick must have ran a four-second forty when he was drafted.

Must have ran a 3.8 when he was 18, before father time caught up with him after hitting the big two zero.

Shananahan
05-05-2012, 12:03 PM
I read somewhere that Darrell Green broke the 100-meter dash record three days after he learned how to walk.

BroncoBuff
05-05-2012, 12:15 PM
Worst article I've seen in a while. A 24 year old QB will suddenly lack the athleticism he had when he was 21?

What the heck was that, Osweiler is "long-levered," so his footwork and release will deteriorate by age 24? He uses Flacco's similarities to explain why ... but then says his "NFL Comparison" is Byron Leftwich.

I like Osweiler as a player, but this was a bad pick. Poll choices don't explain my reasons ... couple of intertwined write-ins:

We didn't sign Manning to sell jerseys, we signed him to make a Super Bowl run, on that we all agree. Problem with this pick is Osweiler adds nothing to that equation. On the other hand, Lavonte David was still available as everybody knows. Top-ranked WLB in the draft, would've contributed immediately, even substantially.
The clipboard-toting QBOTF is a thing of the past. For whatever reasons, QBs start as rookies now, all across the league. So then why the big rush? We'll cross that bridge as they say. In the meantime we could've had more and better hands on deck for a Super Bowl run.

I'm usually drawn to complicated, outside-the-box theories, I get that. But this is not one of them, this seems pretty simple, can't understand why I'm not hearing it more.