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Goobzilla
05-02-2012, 12:06 PM
Details unfolding

http://www.tmz.com/

DarkHorse
05-02-2012, 12:09 PM
Wow, never liked the guy but hope it's untrue.

broncosteven
05-02-2012, 12:09 PM
Wow, this is sad no matter how it works out.

55CrushEm
05-02-2012, 12:10 PM
Can't be true. It's not on Wikipedia

55CrushEm
05-02-2012, 12:10 PM
Details unfolding

http://www.tmz.com/

Could you post the article in text.....the link doesn't work for me.

Goobzilla
05-02-2012, 12:13 PM
Confirmed. Too sad :-(

DarkHorse
05-02-2012, 12:13 PM
11:06 AM PDT -- A man just came out of the house appearing extremely distraught ... and he is now talking with law enforcement.

0314_divider_graphic

Cops in Oceanside, CA are investigating a possible shooting involving former NFL star Junior Seau ... law enforcement sources tell TMZ.

We spoke with an investigator in the coroner's office .. who told us they got a call to respond to the scene ... though the details surrounding the situation are still unclear.

Cops are currently at a residence where 43-year-old Junior is believed to be staying.

People in law enforcement are telling us Junior Seau is dead ... but we are unable to confirm that right now.

Dr. Broncenstein
05-02-2012, 12:14 PM
Usually someone is dead when they call the coroner.

DarkHorse
05-02-2012, 12:14 PM
RIP

ColoradoDarin
05-02-2012, 12:14 PM
Could you post the article in text.....the link doesn't work for me.

No real details yet:

NFL legend Junior Seau was found dead in his home in Oceanside, CA ... and cops are investigating a shooting ... multiple law enforcement sources tell TMZ.

Heyneck
05-02-2012, 12:15 PM
wow!!! sad...

maybe not the thread for this but since this was on tmz.com too, I think we could use it to cheer us up again!

<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/41393068" width="400" height="300" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe>

DarkHorse
05-02-2012, 12:15 PM
Usually someone is dead when they call the coroner.

Thanks Doc, was wondering how that worked :~ohyah!:

bfoflcommish
05-02-2012, 12:15 PM
i know he was a sparkler and a patsie, but he was still a player i liked for his on field play.

R.I.P. Junior

Dr. Broncenstein
05-02-2012, 12:17 PM
Thanks Doc, was wondering how that worked :~ohyah!:

A little protip for levity.

broncosteven
05-02-2012, 12:17 PM
Seau is only 43? That makes me almost 2 years older than him. I thought it was sad when players younger than me started playing in the NFL but now that they are passing before me it is even weirder.

55CrushEm
05-02-2012, 12:18 PM
Mental issues? Rumor is it was suicide....not homocide???

Stagger Lee
05-02-2012, 12:18 PM
Local news channel reporting probable suicide.

WolfpackGuy
05-02-2012, 12:19 PM
Wow.

I still remember that fumble/interception he got off Elway at the end of the 1994 season opener when the Broncos were driving for the win.

He was a helluva player.

Miss I.
05-02-2012, 12:20 PM
Sad news. May he rest in peace and may the family he left behind find some peace and comfort.

rideco
05-02-2012, 12:20 PM
RIP JR!! Even though you played for the Chargers I always respected your talent and wonderful play. Sad his life ended way to soon.

55CrushEm
05-02-2012, 12:23 PM
Well, Wikipedia just updated.......

Chris
05-02-2012, 12:23 PM
What a shame.

JLesSPE
05-02-2012, 12:25 PM
Sad, hope its not another concussion related depression thing.

OBF1
05-02-2012, 12:27 PM
Heard this on the local LA radio on the way home 10 minutes ago. Very sad. RIP

Drunk Monkey
05-02-2012, 12:27 PM
RIP, I hated playing against him but respected him. I remember his retirement speech (the first one) he was so passionate about the game and life. Sad to see him go this way.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-02-2012, 12:27 PM
This is unreal.

Seau is the 8th member of the '94 Chargers Super Bowl team to pass away.

srphoenix
05-02-2012, 12:27 PM
sad to hear about Seau, he always seemed like a likable good guy. I have a feeling this lawsuit against the NFL from the former players just got that much more serious and heated. If I were the NFL I would be very worried. My prayers go out to his family and friends.

Stagger Lee
05-02-2012, 12:28 PM
RIP Junior. Another ex football player gone too soon.

55CrushEm
05-02-2012, 12:28 PM
This is unreal.

Seau is the 8th member of the '94 Chargers Super Bowl team to pass away.

Really??? Who are the others?

maher_tyler
05-02-2012, 12:29 PM
i've checked NFL.com and ESPN.com and there isn't anything reporting he is dead???

55CrushEm
05-02-2012, 12:29 PM
i've checked NFL.com and ESPN.com and there isn't anything reporting he is dead???

Just Google his name......it's everywhere.

Stagger Lee
05-02-2012, 12:29 PM
sad to hear about Seau, he always seemed like a likable good guy. I have a feeling this lawsuit against the NFL from the former players just got that much more serious and heated. If I were the NFL I would be very worried. My prayers go out to his family and friends.

I think you are 1000% right. That's why Goodell has been so harsh on head to head shots and on the saints for the bountygate deal.

OBF1
05-02-2012, 12:30 PM
How is this possible... Story has been on the mane for a while now and not on ESPN or NFL.com.

24champ
05-02-2012, 12:30 PM
RIP

Sucks if it was suicide.

Ray Finkle
05-02-2012, 12:32 PM
that's awful news.

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 12:32 PM
Nothing nice to say...

Drunken.Broncoholic
05-02-2012, 12:33 PM
Was a suicide. Terrible news

crush17
05-02-2012, 12:33 PM
Sad, hope its not another concussion related depression thing.

Exactly my thoughts... Although he did have that really terrible accident recently as well...

RIP my dude. Helluva player.

maher_tyler
05-02-2012, 12:35 PM
Just Google his name......it's everywhere.

I did...found this

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/report-nfl-legend-junior-seau-dead-182120394.html

maher_tyler
05-02-2012, 12:36 PM
How is this possible... Story has been on the mane for a while now and not on ESPN or NFL.com.

Only thing i can think of is that they are awaiting confirmation...

WolfpackGuy
05-02-2012, 12:37 PM
This is unreal.

Seau is the 8th member of the '94 Chargers Super Bowl team to pass away.

I know Chris Mims is one.

WolfpackGuy
05-02-2012, 12:39 PM
Oh, and Rodney Culver too.

He was on that Valujet.

eddie mac
05-02-2012, 12:39 PM
Terrible news, was one hell of a player. RIP Junior.

Shananahan
05-02-2012, 12:45 PM
Only thing i can think of is that they are awaiting confirmation...
It's already been confirmed. ESPN rarely breaks stories like this anymore, they just collect information from somebody else and put it in a fancier package. I'd imagine they're writing the reports at this very moment.

Jack1118son
05-02-2012, 12:46 PM
wow!!! sad...

maybe not the thread for this but since this was on tmz.com too, I think we could use it to cheer us up again!

<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/41393068" width="400" height="300" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe>

rep coming your way my man, your way...Sweet baby Jesus that woman makes me think very bad things....Good God what I've done to that woman in my head...

Now that I've come back to earth, I just realized how insensitive it was to post in this thread and not mention Junior. Respected him as a player, sad to see anyone pass at 43, especially considering the tragic circumstances it seems...RIP

Smiling Assassin27
05-02-2012, 12:47 PM
Man, this is shocking and very sad. He was the heart of those SD defenses that were always challenging to beat. RIP.

OrangeSe7en
05-02-2012, 12:48 PM
It's kind of strange how so many players in the 70s have died young from what seems to be possible effects from steroids (especially ex-Steelers) while the players from the 80s and later don't even make it that far as they have bigger issues which seem to correlate to concussions (or possibly something else).

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-02-2012, 12:49 PM
Really??? Who are the others?

It's all written here:

Deadspin.com (http://deadspin.com/5867720/death-is-stalking-the-1994-chargers)

Sad.

srphoenix
05-02-2012, 12:51 PM
they're reporting now that it was a shot in the chest instead of the head potentially so that his brain could be inspected post-mortem. Exactly what Dave Duerson did.

MaxBroncos ‏ @MaxBroncos
Dave Duerson's self-inflicted gunshot wound in 2011 was also to the chest ... so his brain could be researched & studied post-mortem.

SouthStndJunkie
05-02-2012, 12:52 PM
This won't help all the heat the NFL is taking for concussions/hits to the head/problems after retirement lawsuits that they are dealing with.

Shananahan
05-02-2012, 12:53 PM
It's all written here:

Deadspin.com (http://deadspin.com/5867720/death-is-stalking-the-1994-chargers)
That article headline is alternately hilarious and terrifying.

55CrushEm
05-02-2012, 12:53 PM
It's all written here:

Deadspin.com (http://deadspin.com/5867720/death-is-stalking-the-1994-chargers)

Sad.

Wow.

Meck77
05-02-2012, 12:56 PM
Sad. Hope he didn't have any kids. wow...

maher_tyler
05-02-2012, 01:00 PM
It's all written here:

Deadspin.com (http://deadspin.com/5867720/death-is-stalking-the-1994-chargers)

Sad.

"In 1998, LB Doug Miller was struck by lightning while camping in Colorado. CPR was being performed on Miller when he was struck again by a second bolt."

That is insane. RIP to all..very strange to say the least.

DBroncos4life
05-02-2012, 01:02 PM
ESPN said there was a shooting at his house. No word yet on anything else.

wolf754life
05-02-2012, 01:03 PM
One of the All time Greats, played the game the right way.

A hero needs a villain, ask Elway, he will tell you how much respect Seau had from his peers.


The NFL is all consuming, alot of guys can't cope when its all gone.

RIP #55

cmhargrove
05-02-2012, 01:03 PM
Terrible, terrible, terrible.

Seau was an incredible football player, and had a hell of a career. Too bad for him and his family.

Ambiguous
05-02-2012, 01:05 PM
RIP.

Lestat
05-02-2012, 01:06 PM
wow, wasn't he a minister too? you can see now why Goddell is trying to make the NFL safer(granted adding 2 games doesn't) but these knock out shots have damaging long term affects.

Lestat
05-02-2012, 01:09 PM
It's all written here:

Deadspin.com (http://deadspin.com/5867720/death-is-stalking-the-1994-chargers)

Sad.

holy...

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 01:10 PM
wow, wasn't he a minister too? you can see now why Goddell is trying to make the NFL safer(granted adding 2 games doesn't) but these knock out shots have damaging long term affects.

Whatever...Seau was the one delivering the hard hits. I niether feel sorry for him or any NFL football player that has mental problems leaving the game. That's why they get paid all that money. It's ****ing hazard pay.

JLesSPE
05-02-2012, 01:18 PM
Whatever...Seau was the one delivering the hard hits. I niether feel sorry for him or any NFL football player that has mental problems leaving the game. That's why they get paid all that money. It's ****ing hazard pay.

While that is a pretty insensitive comment given that they just found him dead, its a pretty good point. Nobody forced them to play, and nobody forced them to play the way they did. Then again, how many of them would've opted not to play had they known the possible consequences? I think that's the rub...not enough information was available/presented as to what would happen if you effectively beat your head against a wall for 10 years.

broncocalijohn
05-02-2012, 01:20 PM
Seau was one of my favorite USC Trojans as a teenager and loved watching him in person. If suicide, hate to hear that but now the autopsy and checking brain tissue can see if it is football related including enhanced performance lead to this. A total fixture in San Diego. Damn hating to hear this.

razorwire77
05-02-2012, 01:20 PM
This sucks. He was an absolute monster on the field regardless of what team(s) he player for. I really hope it wasn't a suicide.

Stagger Lee
05-02-2012, 01:20 PM
Sad. Hope he didn't have any kids. wow...

He has 3 kids according to TMZ.

Willynowei
05-02-2012, 01:20 PM
wow!!! sad...

maybe not the thread for this but since this was on tmz.com too, I think we could use it to cheer us up again!

<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/41393068" width="400" height="300" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe>

Those puppies are working so hard to get out from the shade.

I also really want to lick a lolipop right now.

Bronco_Beerslug
05-02-2012, 01:22 PM
Whatever...Seau was the one delivering the hard hits. I niether feel sorry for him or any NFL football player that has mental problems leaving the game. That's why they get paid all that money. It's ****ing hazard pay.

Yep, screw all those injured NFL dudes right Garcia, they get what they deserve?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

TMZ first reported that retired NFL star Junior Seau was found dead Wednesday morning (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/report-nfl-legend-junior-seau-dead-182120394.html), and that the police were investigating after his housekeeper found the NFL legend with a fatal shotgun wound to the chest. He was 43 years old.

Pro football great and Oceanside sports legend Junior Seau has apparently committed suicide, found by a housekeeper with a gunshot wound to the chest, according to multiple sources.

Oceanside Mayor Jim Wood said he learned of the death from police Chief Frank McCoy.


http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/BvWcpLmj4R8Q93aJvCTyyA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/sptusnflexperts/seau5212.jpg

Police responded to Seau's home on The Strand on Wednesday after receiving a call about a reported suicide. The San Diego County medical examiner's office said an investigator was sent to the scene.

The San Diego Chargers issued a statement at approximately noon PT:

Everyone at the Chargers is in complete shock and disbelief right now...We ask everyone to stop what they're doing and send their prayers to Junior and his family.

If Seau committed suicide by shooting himself in the chest, it is similar to the way former Chicago Bears great Dave Duerson ended his life. Duerson shot himself in the chest on February 17 -- the method used so that his brain could be examined for symptoms of CTE (chronic traumatic encephalopathy), a trauma-induced disease common to NFL players and others who have received repeated blows to the head.

Seau, a 12-time Pro Bowler and 6-time First-Team All-Pro, was selected fifth overall in the 1990 NFL draft after an outstanding collegiate career at USC. He played with the San Diego Chargers through the 2002 season, spent 2003-2005 with the Miami Dolphins, and then signed with the New England Patriots in time for the 2006 season. In New England's perfect regular season of 2007, he played in all 16 games and started four. Seau first retires after that season, only to come back and play in 2008 and 2009 before finally leaving the NFL for good.

"I'm going to go surf," he told Showtime upon his January, 2010 retirement announcement. Whatever happens, I can honestly say, that that probably was my last game."

Seau is the eighth member of the Chargers 1994 Super Bowl team to pass. We will keep you updated on this story as more news is confirmed.

Captain 'Dre
05-02-2012, 01:23 PM
Mental issues? Rumor is it was suicide....not homocide???

There's some speculation that-- since he shot himself in the chest, like Dave Duerson did-- that he was suffering from some football-related brain injuries.

This sad circumstance is likely to further the NFL's efforts to reduce concussions.

Rohirrim
05-02-2012, 01:24 PM
That article headline is alternately hilarious and terrifying.

• In 1998, LB Doug Miller was struck by lightning while camping in Colorado. CPR was being performed on Miller when he was struck again by a second bolt.

WAH!?

OrangeSe7en
05-02-2012, 01:26 PM
• In 1998, LB Doug Miller was struck by lightning while camping in Colorado. CPR was being performed on Miller when he was struck again by a second bolt.

WAH!?

I know it's not funny when someone dies but, come on!

razorwire77
05-02-2012, 01:27 PM
Yep, screw all those injured NFL dudes right Garcia, they get what they deserve?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

TMZ first reported that retired NFL star Junior Seau was found dead Wednesday morning (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/report-nfl-legend-junior-seau-dead-182120394.html), and that the police were investigating after his housekeeper found the NFL legend with a fatal shotgun wound to the chest. He was 43 years old.

Pro football great and Oceanside sports legend Junior Seau has apparently committed suicide, found by a housekeeper with a gunshot wound to the chest, according to multiple sources.

Oceanside Mayor Jim Wood said he learned of the death from police Chief Frank McCoy.


http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/BvWcpLmj4R8Q93aJvCTyyA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/sptusnflexperts/seau5212.jpg

Police responded to Seau's home on The Strand on Wednesday after receiving a call about a reported suicide. The San Diego County medical examiner's office said an investigator was sent to the scene.

The San Diego Chargers issued a statement at approximately noon PT:

Everyone at the Chargers is in complete shock and disbelief right now...We ask everyone to stop what they're doing and send their prayers to Junior and his family.

If Seau committed suicide by shooting himself in the chest, it is similar to the way former Chicago Bears great Dave Duerson ended his life. Duerson shot himself in the chest on February 17 -- the method used so that his brain could be examined for symptoms of CTE (chronic traumatic encephalopathy), a trauma-induced disease common to NFL players and others who have received repeated blows to the head.

Seau, a 12-time Pro Bowler and 6-time First-Team All-Pro, was selected fifth overall in the 1990 NFL draft after an outstanding collegiate career at USC. He played with the San Diego Chargers through the 2002 season, spent 2003-2005 with the Miami Dolphins, and then signed with the New England Patriots in time for the 2006 season. In New England's perfect regular season of 2007, he played in all 16 games and started four. Seau first retires after that season, only to come back and play in 2008 and 2009 before finally leaving the NFL for good.

"I'm going to go surf," he told Showtime upon his January, 2010 retirement announcement. Whatever happens, I can honestly say, that that probably was my last game."

Seau is the eighth member of the Chargers 1994 Super Bowl team to pass. We will keep you updated on this story as more news is confirmed.

If there is one modern high-profile case that we look back on historically that ended contact football as we know it, this will be the case.

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 01:31 PM
While that is a pretty insensitive comment given that they just found him dead, its a pretty good point. Nobody forced them to play, and nobody forced them to play the way they did. Then again, how many of them would've opted not to play had they known the possible consequences? I think that's the rub...not enough information was available/presented as to what would happen if you effectively beat your head against a wall for 10 years.

There is nothing wrong with being emotionally detached from it. Doctors have to do it all the time. They knew the consequences. Everyone knows it. That's why everyone doesn't play the game. While it may seem glamorious to play professional football, there is a toll on the mind, body, and spirit.

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 01:32 PM
Yep, screw all those injured NFL dudes right Garcia, they get what they deserve?



Exactly. They do. Pardon the expression but no one put a gun to his chest and made him play football. If you were being objective, you would realize it.

Wes Mantooth
05-02-2012, 01:33 PM
There's some speculation that-- since he shot himself in the chest, like Dave Duerson did-- that he was suffering from some football-related brain injuries.

This sad circumstance is likely to further the NFL's efforts to reduce concussions.

Makes you wonder what OJ Simpson's trial would be like today.

Captain 'Dre
05-02-2012, 01:34 PM
While that is a pretty insensitive comment given that they just found him dead, its a pretty good point. Nobody forced them to play, and nobody forced them to play the way they did. Then again, how many of them would've opted not to play had they known the possible consequences? I think that's the rub...not enough information was available/presented as to what would happen if you effectively beat your head against a wall for 10 years.

I disagree with this--

There may not have been the absolute proof THEN as there is NOW, but anybody with an IQ above 60 has to know that serial concussions lead to big-time problems.

Even though he wasn't a football player, boxer Jerry Quarry was serving as an example of the consequences of head-pounding, and that was more than 25 years ago. He couldn't talk intelligibly, had difficulty walking even a few steps, and was wearing a diaper by his mid-fourties.

It's similar to the situation with cigarets-- it took science a while to PROVE that smoking frequently leads to horrific health consequences, but many people *knew* it before science proved it.

Warning labels were first put on cigaret packs in about 1966. But I remember my dad telling me that-- irrespective of scientific *proof*-- he and many of his peers understood clearly as far back as the '50s that tobacco was a health risk. And my dad was an educator, not a medical professional.

MrPeepers
05-02-2012, 01:35 PM
Nothing nice to say...

ditto, 3 kids... i know messing up a brain can make people do really regretful things. Get some help. Suicide is selfish. He drove off the cliff in 2010 in a suspected suicide.

I feel for his kids.

Chris
05-02-2012, 01:36 PM
"In 1998, LB Doug Miller was struck by lightning while camping in Colorado. CPR was being performed on Miller when he was struck again by a second bolt."

Will resist the temptation (though it would have been a good one). RIP.

Lestat
05-02-2012, 01:38 PM
Whatever...Seau was the one delivering the hard hits. I niether feel sorry for him or any NFL football player that has mental problems leaving the game. That's why they get paid all that money. It's ****ing hazard pay.

i get that no doubt, but you can see why Goddell is doing what he is doing.
granted not every player ends up like Seau,Duerson or Webster but the fear is obviously that someone is gonna end up dying on the field.
athletes are bigger,faster,stronger,more athletic and play less proper mechanical football than ever.

you combine that with the players of the past having issues after retirement and something needs to be done. it cannot be avoided.
yes they know the risks, yes they get paid for it and probably shouldn't be pitied but making the game safer can only help, not hurt.

JLesSPE
05-02-2012, 01:39 PM
There is nothing wrong with being emotionally detached from it. Doctors have to do it all the time. They knew the consequences. Everyone knows it. That's why everyone doesn't play the game. While it may seem glamorious to play professional football, there is a physical toll.

I think most people don't play professional football because they suck ass at it compared to those guys.

Yes there is a physical toll...but up until fairly recently no one thought that included death. It was always difficulty walking, bad knees, bad hips, bad backs, 10 fingers that all pointed in different directions...it didn't include brain injuries and their consequences.

If it had been possible and the NFL gave full medical disclosure of what could happen as a result of a long football career and the repeated abuse that comes with it and these players still made the decision to play I'd agree with you. That's how I feel about young players now. You know what you're getting into and you're accepting a huge ass pay check to deal with that risk, good luck.

bronco militia
05-02-2012, 01:40 PM
damn RIP....for the longest time SayOw WAS the Chargers.

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 01:40 PM
I disagree with this--

There may not have been the absolute proof THEN as there is NOW, but anybody with an IQ above 60 has to know that serial concussions lead to big-time problems.

Even though he wasn't a football player, boxer Jerry Quarry was serving as an example of the consequences of head-pounding, and that was more than 25 years ago.

It's similar to the situation with cigarets-- it took science a while to PROVE that smoking frequently leads to horrific health consequences, but many people *knew* it before science proved it.

Warning labels were first put on cigaret packs in about 1966. But I remember my dad telling me that-- irrespective of scientic *proof*-- he and many of his peers understood clearly as far back as the '50s that tobacco was a health risk.

Exactly..I was going to use Ali as an example. It beyond amusing that these players can claim this with a straight face.

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 01:43 PM
i get that no doubt, but you can see why Goddell is doing what he is doing.
granted not every player ends up like Seau,Duerson or Webster but the fear is obviously that someone is gonna end up dying on the field.
athletes are bigger,faster,stronger,more athletic and play less proper mechanical football than ever.

you combine that with the players of the past having issues after retirement and something needs to be done. it cannot be avoided.
yes they know the risks, yes they get paid for it and probably shouldn't be pitied but making the game safer can only help, not hurt.

I agree. It's not my business on how the NFL lawfully runs itself. My business is whether I'll support it with my dollars. So far I've seen nothing to keep me from doing so. If the NFL wants to go two-hand-touch....up to them. I do differ that it's the leagues responsibility to take care of retired players.

BroncoBeavis
05-02-2012, 01:43 PM
There's some speculation that-- since he shot himself in the chest, like Dave Duerson did-- that he was suffering from some football-related brain injuries.

This sad circumstance is likely to further the NFL's efforts to reduce concussions.

Yes a celebrity died. There will be speculation. But let's not get too carried away. Post-celebrity life can be a tough adjustment for a guy who worked his whole life to get somewhere, and now it's over.

I imagine a lot of ex-NFL players get depressed and it might have nothing to do with any on-the-job injuries. I'm sure many of them feel like they went from the top of the world to nobodies in a heartbeat.

JLesSPE
05-02-2012, 01:45 PM
I disagree with this--

There may not have been the absolute proof THEN as there is NOW, but anybody with an IQ above 60 has to know that serial concussions lead to big-time problems.

Even though he wasn't a football player, boxer Jerry Quarry was serving as an example of the consequences of head-pounding, and that was more than 25 years ago. He couldn't talk intelligibly, had difficulty walking even a few steps, and was wearing a diaper by his mid-fourties.

It's similar to the situation with cigarets-- it took science a while to PROVE that smoking frequently leads to horrific health consequences, but many people *knew* it before science proved it.

Warning labels were first put on cigaret packs in about 1966. But I remember my dad telling me that-- irrespective of scientific *proof*-- he and many of his peers understood clearly as far back as the '50s that tobacco was a health risk. And my dad was an educator, not a medical professional.

That's why I said "presented" also. It wasn't talked about. If everyone knew about concussions and what they lead to you really think all those players would've gone wobbly legged back into the huddle ready for another one? This argument certainly has 2 sides. I just don't think its right to completely discount one side versus the other.

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 01:45 PM
ditto, 3 kids... i know messing up a brain can make people do really regretful things. Get some help. Suicide is selfish. He drove off the cliff in 2010 in a suspected suicide.

I feel for his kids.

That's another aspect for me. Where as I might have a had a tiny bit of respect for Seau. I now consider him the ultimate coward. Big and tough on the football field spearing people, but to his kids and family...he's a big pussy. I am glad to know that I am tougher than he is.

JLesSPE
05-02-2012, 01:47 PM
Yes a celebrity died. There will be speculation. But let's not get too carried away. Post-celebrity life can be a tough adjustment for a guy who worked his whole life to get somewhere, and now it's over.

I imagine a lot of ex-NFL players get depressed and it might have nothing to do with any on-the-job injuries. I'm sure many of them feel like they went from the top of the world to nobodies in a heartbeat.

That's entirely plausible and important to note.

edog24
05-02-2012, 01:48 PM
Too bad. Looks like the cliff deal was mentioned, looks like he never got the help he needed.

Broncos dude
05-02-2012, 01:48 PM
ditto, 3 kids... i know messing up a brain can make people do really regretful things. Get some help. Suicide is selfish. He drove off the cliff in 2010 in a suspected suicide.

I feel for his kids.

Very sad news. He played 20 years in the NFL , I hope he didnt do this to himself to screw the NFL. He is a first ballot HOF , this is not football issue. The man has or had mental issues

HorseHead
05-02-2012, 01:49 PM
great player..

always tormented us..very sad and a real shame..

Drunken.Broncoholic
05-02-2012, 01:50 PM
That's another aspect for me. Where as I might have a had a tiny bit of respect for Seau. I now consider him the ultimate coward. Big and tough on the football field spearing people, but to his kids and family...he's a big p***Y. I am glad to know that I am tougher than he is.

He's not even in a grave yet and you're already stepping on it.

Arkie
05-02-2012, 01:50 PM
It's all written here:

Deadspin.com (http://deadspin.com/5867720/death-is-stalking-the-1994-chargers)

Sad.

That's creepy.

MplsBronco
05-02-2012, 01:53 PM
That's another aspect for me. Where as I might have a had a tiny bit of respect for Seau. I now consider him the ultimate coward. Big and tough on the football field spearing people, but to his kids and family...he's a big p***Y. I am glad to know that I am tougher than he is.

You are such a clown, coming on here and calling a dead man names. No one knows what these ppl are going thru. If it really is brain related, then how can you pass judgement unless you are living with same circumstances? Get over yourself.

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 01:54 PM
I think most people don't play professional football because they suck ass at it compared to those guys.

Yes there is a physical toll...but up until fairly recently no one thought that included death. It was always difficulty walking, bad knees, bad hips, bad backs, 10 fingers that all pointed in different directions...it didn't include brain injuries and their consequences.



I still disagree. Why do they wear helmets then? If there is no chance of brain injury, according to claimed player beliefs, why do they wear helmets? Because the ****ing know that the bonnet protects their head. Concussions have been labeled and diagnosed since the 19 century. And while the information is much better today, We're in the 21st century. And to top it all off...these guys usually graduated from some university where the majored in sports physiology of some kind...where they would have had to take a health class. Where you would cover what a concussion is and how it can impact wellness.

55CrushEm
05-02-2012, 01:56 PM
So it says he was shot in the chest. Don't most suicides, by handgun, occur with a headshot?

I'd question the girlfriend. Furthemore, one of the very early reports coming in about his death mentioned "altercation".

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 01:57 PM
great player..

always tormented us..very sad and a real shame..

Not really. We usually beat the crap of his teams.

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 02:00 PM
He's not even in a grave yet and you're already stepping on it.

Anyone who takes their own life is a selfish coward. Especially when they leave children behind. Sorry if that doesn't fit in with your expectations on how I should feel about it.

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 02:01 PM
You are such a clown, coming on here and calling a dead man names. No one knows what these ppl are going thru. If it really is brain related, then how can you pass judgement unless you are living with same circumstances? Get over yourself.

Doesn't matter. He had an obligation to himself and his family and he blew it away.


Personally I don't think this was related to a brain injury but that he hated his life after football. Notice how he retired one day and the next day went to the Patriots. If true that would make him even more of a coward. This is also the second time he's tried to kill himself according to some.

razorwire77
05-02-2012, 02:03 PM
So it says he was shot in the chest. Don't most suicides, by handgun, occur with a headshot?

I'd question the girlfriend. Furthemore, one of the very early reports coming in about his death mentioned "altercation".

There is speculation he did this so doctors could examine his brain to prove post-concussion syndrome. If that's revealed to be true, years from now when there are no kickoffs, no punt returns, and dead ball whistles after every interception or fumble, this will be the case that was the turning point. Junior Seau isn't some no-name free safety on a 1965 Rams team that no one remembers. He's a modern, HOF caliber player.

Drunken.Broncoholic
05-02-2012, 02:04 PM
That's creepy.

In the comments section it shows QB coach daughter dies while spreading ashes of her mother, who had committed suicide hours after chargers win AFC champ game in 94

myMind
05-02-2012, 02:05 PM
Doesn't matter. He had an obligation to himself and his family and he blew it away.


Personally I don't think this was related to a brain injury but that he hated his life after football. Notice how he retired one day and the next day went to the Patriots. If true that would make him even more of a coward. This is also the second time he's tried to kill himself according to some.

sociopath

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 02:06 PM
sociopath

Seau isn't a sociopath. Look up the word.

broncosteven
05-02-2012, 02:08 PM
I really think the NFL needs to get in front of this and reach out to the players who played during the 70'-90's and get them some help.

Chronic pain brings on depression but there are things you can do to give these guys a better quality of life.

SonOfLe-loLang
05-02-2012, 02:08 PM
Doesn't matter. He had an obligation to himself and his family and he blew it away.


Personally I don't think this was related to a brain injury but that he hated his life after football. Notice how he retired one day and the next day went to the Patriots. If true that would make him even more of a coward. This is also the second time he's tried to kill himself according to some.

I think youre passing a lot of judgment on a situation you know nothing about. Obviously youve never been depressed or realize what its like to be suicidal.

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 02:11 PM
I think youre passing a lot of judgment on a situation you know nothing about. Obviously youve never been depressed or realize what its like to be suicidal.

LOL...applying your statement about me to yourself...do you see how you first sentence is in direct conflict with your second. You dont know what the heck I've been through. But this isn't about me....this is about Junior killing himself.

manchambo
05-02-2012, 02:11 PM
Whatever...Seau was the one delivering the hard hits. I niether feel sorry for him or any NFL football player that has mental problems leaving the game. That's why they get paid all that money. It's ****ing hazard pay.

I don't know which part of this post is more ignorant, the suggestion that delivering devastating hits wouldn't be just as damaging as receiving them, or the suggestion that football players somehow should have known that suicidal depression was a natural consequence of playing.

As for the former, simple physics dictates that the person delivering a hit absorbs a great deal of force. As for the latter, I would agree that players knowingly take on a number of risks--if someone blows out a knee, breaks bones, or even is paralyzed, I feel a great deal of sympathy, but it is fair enough to say that they took on that risk. In this case, I don't believe that anyone knew that after retiring these players would be seemingly healthy, but would have their brains affected in such a way as to render them crippled with depression. If someone did know, they really should have told the players.

Broncos dude
05-02-2012, 02:12 PM
Anyone who takes their own life is a selfish coward. Especially when they leave children behind. Sorry if that doesn't fit in with your expectations on how I should feel about it.

Go FU yourself with that comment. Everyone here knows a family member , friend that has done this.. My father took his own life 12 years ago , for the better for my mother. Don't judge unless you have your breaking point

myMind
05-02-2012, 02:13 PM
Seau isn't a sociopath. Look up the word.

I was reffering to you Einstein.

JLesSPE
05-02-2012, 02:13 PM
I still disagree. Why do they wear helmets then? If there is no chance of brain injury, according to claimed player beliefs, why do they wear helmets? Because the ****ing know that the bonnet protects their head. Concussions have been labeled and diagnosed since the 19 century. And while the information is much better today, We're in the 21st century. And to top it all off...these guys usually graduated from some university where the majored in sports physiology of some kind...where they would have had to take a health class. Where you would cover what a concussion is and how it can impact wellness.

Yeah you're right. Most football players are amongst the upper echelon of the educated community. Maybe they started wearing helmets because it ****ing hurts to run head first into someone....who knows. My argument isn't that they didn't know about brain injury, its that they didn't know the long term effects of brain injuries. Concussions have been diagnosed since the 19th century, but the first case of CTE wasn't diagnosed until 2007. Now we're going off of health class? So you know if you work in any sort of industrial setting they sit you through an OSHA training seminar? They don't expect you to remember your health class from your freshman year of HS. They explain why shards of metal flying into your eyes is bad and how really loud noises can hurt your hearing. Then they give you some safety glasses and a set of earplugs and send you to work. That's what I'm saying. These guys didn't get the class...no "Hey you get your bell rung too many times you're gonna off yourself in 20 years" class. Might've changed a few minds on whether you go in head first on a tackle or if you protect yourself while bringing down the ball carrier. Don't give me this neuroscience has been common sense since the 19th century argument, because it isn't an argument.

MplsBronco
05-02-2012, 02:13 PM
I think youre passing a lot of judgment on a situation you know nothing about. Obviously youve never been depressed or realize what its like to be suicidal.

Exactly, I just thank God that I have never gotten to the point where suicide seemed like the only option. The depths of depression or despair a person must reach in order to take their own life is really sad. Especially for a guy like Seau who presumably lives a comfortable life and has the means to do what he wants.

Do people really think Seau wouldn't rather live out the rest of life and see his children grow and become a grandfather rather than kill himself? It's terrible.

Taco John
05-02-2012, 02:14 PM
Horrible!

manchambo
05-02-2012, 02:15 PM
Seau isn't a sociopath. Look up the word.

I'm pretty sure he wasn't calling Seau a sociopath.

manchambo
05-02-2012, 02:21 PM
Anyone who takes their own life is a selfish coward. Especially when they leave children behind. Sorry if that doesn't fit in with your expectations on how I should feel about it.

I have kids and I have been depressed and suicidal. In fact there were moments when I'm pretty sure my family was the only reason I didn't commit suicide--that's how much depression can **** up your thinking.

Speaking as a person who was afflicted with those thoughts but found a way to carry on for the sake of my family, I think it is despicable that you would call this man a coward. You plainly don't have the first clue what the **** you're talking about.

Taco John
05-02-2012, 02:22 PM
So sad. You can see that the community there loves him. It's unfortunate is not able to appreciate how many people care for him.

wolf754life
05-02-2012, 02:24 PM
thwack for garcia

JLesSPE
05-02-2012, 02:24 PM
So sad. You can see that the community there loves him. It's unfortunate is not able to appreciate how many people care for him.

He did a ton for that community, he really had a passion for kids.

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 02:26 PM
I don't know which part of this post is more ignorant, the suggestion that delivering devastating hits wouldn't be just as damaging as receiving them, or the suggestion that football players somehow should have known that suicidal depression was a natural consequence of playing.

As for the former, simple physics dictates that the person delivering a hit absorbs a great deal of force. As for the latter, I would agree that players knowingly take on a number of risks--if someone blows out a knee, breaks bones, or even is paralyzed, I feel a great deal of sympathy, but it is fair enough to say that they took on that risk. In this case, I don't believe that anyone knew that after retiring these players would be seemingly healthy, but would have their brains affected in such a way as to render them crippled with depression. If someone did know, they really should have told the players.


Suicidal depression is NOT a proved "natural consequence" of playing football. Infact I would say if it does it exist; it's an outlier because the majority of football players don't do it.

Psychology is a vast subject with a great deal of non-repeatable research results, but now we'll never know why Junior was depressed. It could have been for injuries or it could have been that he couldn't deal with life after football. We really don't know and analysing his brain post won't give us that.

SonOfLe-loLang
05-02-2012, 02:27 PM
LOL...applying your statement about me to yourself...do you see how you first sentence is in direct conflict with your second. You dont know what the heck I've been through. But this isn't about me....this is about Junior killing himself.

While I'm sure you've gone through some tough ****, I dont get the impression you have any sort of chemical imbalance or emotional issue that would lead you to suicidal thoughts. If you did, you'd think differently. I've been there, and guess what, people arent all that lucid when they get to that point.

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 02:28 PM
I have kids and I have been depressed and suicidal. In fact there were moments when I'm pretty sure my family was the only reason I didn't commit suicide--that's how much depression can **** up your thinking.

Speaking as a person who was afflicted with those thoughts but found a way to carry on for the sake of my family, I think it is despicable that you would call this man a coward. You plainly don't have the first clue what the **** you're talking about.

Actually I do. And obviously you are tougher than he is too.

SonOfLe-loLang
05-02-2012, 02:28 PM
Suicidal depression is NOT a proved "natural consequence" of playing football. Infact I would say if it does it exist; it's an outlier because the majority of football players don't do it.

Psychology is a vast subject with a great deal of non-repeatable research results, but now we'll never know why Junior was depressed. It could have been for injuries or it could have been that he couldn't deal with life after football. We really don't know and analysing his brain post won't give us that.

This ill agree with. If suicide was a widespread problem among current and former football players, there would be a connection, but its still just a handful. Clearly though, damaging your brain can't help, but no one is forcing them to play football, and for many, it gave them a good life for a while.

houghtam
05-02-2012, 02:29 PM
So sad. You can see that the community there loves him. It's unfortunate is not able to appreciate how many people care for him.

Agree. I told my brother, resident of San Diego for 25 years, Packers fan, and hater of anything and everything Chargers-related. Even he sounded broken up about it.

Tough day.

strafen
05-02-2012, 02:30 PM
I'm surprised nobody has said..."should we sign him?"

But seriously, when people commit suicide is because of a big pain they carry inside that they don't see a solution for, but there's not bigger pain than the one his kids, parents and loved ones are going thru right now.
This is tragic and very sad.
My prayers go out to his whole family
R.I.P

extralife
05-02-2012, 02:30 PM
Suicidal depression is NOT a proved "natural consequence" of playing football. Infact I would say if it does it exist; it's an outlier because the majority of football players don't do it.

Psychology is a vast subject with a great deal of non-repeatable research results, but now we'll never know why Junior was depressed. It could have been for injuries or it could have been that he couldn't deal with life after football. We really don't know and analysing his brain post won't give us that.

whelp, I guess we'd better just not try anything at all then, and rely on silly self-protective, self-assertive dogma to pronounce judgments. I like football and one time I pretended I was going to shoot myself so that I could feel better about not doing it so lets just keep moving forward lalalalalalalala

Archer81
05-02-2012, 02:32 PM
I agree with Garcia.

He may have been depressed. Might have been out of his mind with pain. But knew enough to shoot himself in the chest?

I'm sorry, I dont empathize. Suicide is a cowardly way to check out, regardless of the reasons behind it.

:Broncos:

TDmvp
05-02-2012, 02:35 PM
I agree with Garcia.

He may have been depressed. Might have been out of his mind with pain. But knew enough to shoot himself in the chest?

I'm sorry, I dont empathize. Suicide is a cowardly way to check out, regardless of the reasons behind it.

:Broncos:




What if it's a child ? As someone who watched a body bag filled with his 15 year old neighbor be carried out of the house next door I disagree in some cases...

SonOfLe-loLang
05-02-2012, 02:38 PM
I don't get the "coward" argument. I can see if it if you have small children, but if you dont?

Archer81
05-02-2012, 02:39 PM
What if it's a child ? As someone who watched a body bag filled with his 15 year old neighbor be carried out of the house next door I disagree in some cases...

Its sad when someone takes their own lives. I will never say its not. It was a failure on that person's part, and of the people around them. But its a selfish act. A permanent solution to something that is temporary.

:Broncos:

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 02:41 PM
This ill agree with. If suicide was a widespread problem among current and former football players, there would be a connection, but its still just a handful. Clearly though, damaging your brain can't help, but no one is forcing them to play football, and for many, it gave them a good life for a while.

And that's all I am saying. Obviously this is tough on his community, family, and loved ones. I am a part of none of those groups; so I am free to talk about it objectively. Obviously if this were someone in my family not a single **** would be given at the OM; if you heard about it at all.

SonOfLe-loLang
05-02-2012, 02:43 PM
Its sad when someone takes their own lives. I will never say its not. It was a failure on that person's part, and of the people around them. But its a selfish act. A permanent solution to something that is temporary.

:Broncos:

Selfish to whom? By that logic, you can say family members selfishly want to keep someone around who has no desire to live.

Its a complicated situation

manchambo
05-02-2012, 02:45 PM
Suicidal depression is NOT a proved "natural consequence" of playing football. Infact I would say if it does it exist; it's an outlier because the majority of football players don't do it.

Psychology is a vast subject with a great deal of non-repeatable research results, but now we'll never know why Junior was depressed. It could have been for injuries or it could have been that he couldn't deal with life after football. We really don't know and analysing his brain post won't give us that.

It's certainly an outlier if it does exist, and does not affect the majority of players. My God, if it affected the majority of players they really would be dropping like flies. That it is an uncommon problem does not mean it is not a real problem. And there certainly is a lot of plausibility to the connection between head trauma and depression.

We may not ever know for certain whether Seau was depressed--though we may find out if he was under treatment. But it's a safe bet that he was--the vast majority of suicides are depressed. Many of the others have psychiatric disorders that it seems likely Seau did not have (bipolar, schizophrenia). In all, I would be very surprised if he was not depressed. Of course, it is hard to tell exactly what caused that depression, though study of his brain might help.

baja
05-02-2012, 02:45 PM
Doesn't matter. He had an obligation to himself and his family and he blew it away.


Personally I don't think this was related to a brain injury but that he hated his life after football. Notice how he retired one day and the next day went to the Patriots. If true that would make him even more of a coward. This is also the second time he's tried to kill himself according to some.

Garcia with the passing years me respect for you has dwindled with each passing post. Today it has hit 0.

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 02:46 PM
whelp, I guess we'd better just not try anything at all then

You might be right. What's the value of a human life anymore comparing the individual to the cost on society? How far should we go to save or better a handful of lives compared to the population at large?

Archer81
05-02-2012, 02:47 PM
Selfish to whom? By that logic, you can say family members selfishly want to keep someone around who has no desire to live.

Its a complicated situation


Right. Wanting family to remain alive is so horrible. Next time my brother gets a hangnail I'll suggest to him to shoot himself in the chest.

:Broncos:

MplsBronco
05-02-2012, 02:49 PM
Garcia with the passing years me respect for you has dwindled with each passing post. Today it has hit 0.

I have read enough from this clown over time to know he is a lousy human being.

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 02:50 PM
Garcia with the passing years me respect for you has dwindled with each passing post. Today it has hit 0.

Whatever. This from a man who decided to be homeless drunk in Boulder.

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 02:51 PM
I have read enough from this clown over time to know he is a lousy human being.

I love it. you assholes want to make this about me. Didn't you say earlier that I had no business judging someone because I don't know them. LOL.

Bronco_Beerslug
05-02-2012, 02:51 PM
That's another aspect for me. Where as I might have a had a tiny bit of respect for Seau. I now consider him the ultimate coward. You stated you have no idea what happened in his life and you post the above?

You confirm almost daily here how ignorant and callous you and your life are.

baja
05-02-2012, 02:55 PM
Whatever. This from a man who decided to be homeless drunk in Boulder.

I have had my trials but thank God I have never been as lost as you. I will pray for you Garcia. I will pray that someday you come to know what it is to be a human being.

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 02:56 PM
You stated you have no idea what happened in his life and you post the above?

You confirm almost daily here how ignorant and callous you and your life are.

No dickhead...he said that. I didn't.

SonOfLe-loLang
05-02-2012, 02:57 PM
Right. Wanting family to remain alive is so horrible. Next time my brother gets a hangnail I'll suggest to him to shoot himself in the chest.

:Broncos:

Way to twist words. I'm just saying be careful with the word "selfish." If someone is in pain every friggin day and would prefer to die, that's their right to do so. Especially if they have no responsibility to anyone else.

HILife
05-02-2012, 02:58 PM
WoW! RIP

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 02:58 PM
I have had my trials but thank God I have never been as lost as you. I will pray for you Garcia. I will pray that someday you come to know what it is to be a human being.

I am a human being. I will pray for you as well becaus eI've always imgained the reason you moved to Mexico is because you are running from the law for some crime you committed.

manchambo
05-02-2012, 02:59 PM
I agree with Garcia.

He may have been depressed. Might have been out of his mind with pain. But knew enough to shoot himself in the chest?

I'm sorry, I dont empathize. Suicide is a cowardly way to check out, regardless of the reasons behind it.

:Broncos:

The ignorance about these issues can be staggering. So what if he "knew enough to shoot himself in the chest." A person with schizophrenia who believed he had to kill himself because he was Jesus Christ and had to atone for our sins would still know where to shoot himself. Would that prove he wasn't crazy?

But of course that whole question has very little to do with depression (the cause of most suicides) because depression causes an entirely different type of craziness. It does not cause a person to hear voices or have false beliefs (usually) but it alters their entire perception of the world and themselves to the point where there is nothing but sadness, anxiety and guilt, takes away all joy and interest in anything fun or entertaining, and also takes away any hope that anything will ever get better. It also commonly creates a type of tunnel vision where it is very difficult to think about, or accurately comprehend, anything outside this narrow world of misery. But the most important thing to understand is that it is an altered mental state. I look back on my depression and I cannot understand at all why I thought the things I thought or felt the way I did. These are my own thoughts which, for a long time, totally consumed me, and yet today they are as foreign to me as if they were someone else's. It is like nothing I've ever experienced before. But trust me when I say that, if you do experience it, you completely understand why people commit suicide. And mostly you feel sorry that they could not somehow find their way out of that state, whether through medications, therapy, or some other means.

schaaf
05-02-2012, 03:00 PM
I also agree that Suicide is one of the most selfish things a person can do, I also view it as a cowardly act. With that said, I have absolutely no idea what kind of mind set Junior was in and if he even knew what he was doing. If it is related to Concussions then it is just one more thing to be watched. I myself spent two days in the hospital two months ago and am still not able to work due to Post Concussion Syndrome and I only played College football. I cannot imagine playing another 15 years and suffering another 5-10 concussions and many players have even more. They are a scary thing and nobody really knows how to deal with them yet.

baja
05-02-2012, 03:03 PM
I am a human being. I will pray for you as well becaus eI've always imgained the reason you moved to Mexico is because you are running from the law for some crime you committed.

Of course you did. That is what makes you you.

Some day life will deal you the very lesson you need to wake up.

UberBroncoMan
05-02-2012, 03:05 PM
Shame

DomCasual
05-02-2012, 03:09 PM
The Orange Mane.

Serious business.

Truly, Junior Seau is on my top-10 list of all-time hated players. But seeing his mom sobbing on the news breaks my heart. RIP. And God bless his family.

manchambo
05-02-2012, 03:11 PM
Actually I do. And obviously you are tougher than he is too.

I have no idea if I'm tougher than him. I don't know how bad it was for him.

extralife
05-02-2012, 03:15 PM
Its sad when someone takes their own lives. I will never say its not. It was a failure on that person's part, and of the people around them. But its a selfish act. A permanent solution to something that is temporary.

:Broncos:

These are platitudes designed to protect you, your beliefs, and the social constructs that generated them. They have nothing to do with the person in question or the family left behind, neither of which you care about (as such). Of course it sucks, but you're not saying it sucks: you are prescribing edicts, pronouncing judgments, extrapolating universals; turning, in general, away from the actual event, the actual <i>cause</i>, the reality of the situation as a thing which came about, and instead facing everything <i>else</i>. It is an occasion for the enforcement and promulgation of societal norms, which is why the reaction is immediately anger and defense of the norm which was violated.

What if -- and here's the kicker -- someone kills themselves <i>because the norms you fall back on circumscribe their relation to the world in a way that is in some way destructive?</i> (this is the actual case in all systematic negative behavior--the problem is merely one of identification)

What is it to say that the "cause" of the act of suicide (substitute with any act) is <i>temporary</i>? How does this have meaning? How is it universally true, for one thing? How does "eternity" have meaning--particularly positive meaning--in any, much less <i>all</I> individual senses or situations? Why are "problems" and their opposites quantitatively, hierarchically judged in temporal terms in the first place? What does "failure" mean? Clearly the person who killed himself judged the act a success, or--more succinctly--no longer bought into the idea of successes and failures. You view suicide as "cowardly." The Japanese view it as honorable. Clearly these are social constructs (ironically, they both serve the exact same end).

This is not a defense of suicide; it is a critique of the reaction, which is a signification of values external to the situation, an evincing of conclusions that are the opposite of what they profess, and a normative gesture intent on writing losses away as acceptable and marginal. The judgment trades Junior Seau's life away for an affirmation of the values his act threatened, and these kinds of trades are a root cause of the situations that are <i>almost always</i> the predecessors of supreme, pathological self destruction.

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 03:18 PM
Of course you did. That is what makes you you.

Some day life will deal you the very lesson you need to wake up.

LOL. I walk-the-walk and talk-the-talk most everyday. I ain't perfect and I know it. You? Not so much.

lonestar
05-02-2012, 03:19 PM
I disliked the guy because he was always on a team that was kicking our butts.

But have to admire his skill in game, the way he prepped and being a difference maker..

The NFL will be a sadder place, because of this loss..

MY thoughts and prayers go out to his family..

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 03:20 PM
I have no idea if I'm tougher than him. I don't know how bad it was for him.

that's fair. From my perspective, you have to realize that you are stronger than him because you fought it. Maybe you still fight it and you're still here for the ones that love you and the ones you love. He decided not to.

Pick Six
05-02-2012, 03:30 PM
Like Elway tweeted, he played the game like it was MEANT to be played. He was the "enemy", but I would have loved for him to be a Bronco...RIP, Jr...

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-02-2012, 03:35 PM
that's fair. From my perspective, you have to realize that you are stronger than him because you fought it. Maybe you still fight it and you're still here for the ones that love you and the ones you love. He decided not to.

If it was a mental health problem, there may have been very little "decision" involved.

Which is why folks shouldn't run their mouths and make themselves look ignorant. That goes for both sides.

Though I will say that Garcia once gave me advice when I was being taken to small claims court that I should just "not show up." Because that would solve things.

Hilarious!

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 03:42 PM
If it was a mental health problem, there may have been very little "decision" involved.

Which is why folks shouldn't run their mouths and make themselves look ignorant. That goes for both sides.

Though I will say that Garcia once gave me advice when I was being taken to small claims court that I should just "not show up." Because that would solve things.

Hilarious!

Maybe. But since he took the time to write a letter and text his family prior to doing it would tell me he did in fact decide to kill himself.


On the court thing I told you my experience with it. If I recall correctly...you lost, right?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-02-2012, 03:45 PM
Maybe. But since he took the time to write a letter and text his family prior to doing it would tell me he did in fact decide to kill himself.


On the court thing I told you my experience with it. If I recall correctly...you lost, right?

More or less. It's more that I didn't win than I lost, but sure.

Blueflame
05-02-2012, 03:46 PM
Very sad news... sad for Junior if he felt this was the only way out; and even sadder for those who loved him that he left behind. Prayers for his family...

rbackfactory80
05-02-2012, 04:01 PM
"If he dies, he dies".

Tough stance to defend Garcia.

RIP Junior

txtebow
05-02-2012, 04:17 PM
He was a warrior on the football field. My condolences to his family.

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 04:20 PM
"If he dies, he dies".

Tough stance to defend Garcia.

RIP Junior

it would be if I am the only person that feels that; but I am not. I've seen what these selfish people do to their loved ones by committing suicide. How would Junior feel if he knew that his daughter was going to develop some co-morbid OCD to go with her own depression from his suicide? Not a certainty, but a possibilty. Would he have killed himself then? Looks like he didn't think of that.

rbackfactory80
05-02-2012, 04:22 PM
it would be if I am the only person that feels that; but I am not. I've seen what these selfish people do to their loved ones by committing suicide. How would Junior feel if he knew that his daughter was going to develop some co-morbid OCD to go with her own depression from his suicide? Not a certainty, but a possibilty. Would he have killed himself then? Looks like he didn't think of that.

You are acting like the guy was operating with a full deck. If he was, he probably wouldn't have killed himself.

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 04:26 PM
You are acting like the guy was operating with a full deck. If he was, he probably wouldn't have killed himself.

He supposedly wrote in his suicide note that he was donating his head for research. That's full on knowing what you're doing, IMO.

DBroncos4life
05-02-2012, 04:39 PM
Watching his mom was hard. Poor lady.

Willynowei
05-02-2012, 04:41 PM
He supposedly wrote in his suicide note that he was donating his head for research. That's full on knowing what you're doing, IMO.

Get your facts straight man.

There was no suicide note at all (that was a different guy). He was last seen by his neighbor smiling and happy, surfing, and playing the ukulele. The guy then grabs a shotgun randomly and shoots himself, does that sound like a guy whose operating with a full deck?

Probably came out of left field for the dude, he probably never even saw it coming himself.

Garcia Bronco
05-02-2012, 04:44 PM
Get your facts straight man.

There was no suicide note at all (that was a different guy). He was last seen by his neighbor smiling and happy, surfing, and playing the ukulele. The guy then grabs a shotgun randomly and shoots himself, does that sound like a guy whose operating with a full deck?

Probably came out of left field for the dude, he probably never even saw it coming himself.

I didn't present it as fact. I qualified it with "supposedly" And actually manic-depression would explain that.

Rohirrim
05-02-2012, 05:14 PM
Doesn't matter. He had an obligation to himself and his family and he blew it away.


Personally I don't think this was related to a brain injury but that he hated his life after football. Notice how he retired one day and the next day went to the Patriots. If true that would make him even more of a coward. This is also the second time he's tried to kill himself according to some.

Your obvious superiority is remarkable.

Willynowei
05-02-2012, 05:19 PM
I feel like the way that this type of stuff hits, its like an avalanche, you're perfectly okay one minute and then in ur own head everything is going downhill the next.

I'm just curious as to how, after the car crash incident, people close to him didn't dig out of him that it was really an attempted suicide? And if they did, something should've been done.

This stuff is scary it can happen to a loved one that is perfectly happy and stable on the surface.

canadianbroncosfan
05-02-2012, 05:35 PM
Like Elway tweeted, he played the game like it was MEANT to be played. He was the "enemy", but I would have loved for him to be a Bronco...RIP, Jr...

Absolutely this.

I hated the guy (as a player) because he was so damn good and we had to play him twice a year.

Absolute shame, RIP Junior.

cutthemdown
05-02-2012, 05:42 PM
He tried to kill himself before so this is no real shock. Scary that humans can get that depressed on life.

cutthemdown
05-02-2012, 05:46 PM
If concussions make people crazy then all NFL can do is say once you have your 3rd concussion you can't play in the NFL anymore. You can't get head contact out of the game, no way. Not to mention we see lots of this because of knee to the head during pile ups etc etc. Players would be pissed if they got retired because of concussions.

El Minion
05-02-2012, 05:52 PM
http://prod.static.chargers.clubs.nfl.com/assets/images/hp/splash/seau-1969-2012.jpg

That One Guy
05-02-2012, 05:59 PM
LOL

Really liked the guy but if he thought life was so terrible...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/eqyUAtzS_6M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Willynowei
05-02-2012, 06:42 PM
LOL

Really liked the guy but if he thought life was so terrible...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/eqyUAtzS_6M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

lol. the irony.

That One Guy
05-02-2012, 06:46 PM
I feel like the way that this type of stuff hits, its like an avalanche, you're perfectly okay one minute and then in ur own head everything is going downhill the next.

I'm just curious as to how, after the car crash incident, people close to him didn't dig out of him that it was really an attempted suicide? And if they did, something should've been done.

This stuff is scary it can happen to a loved one that is perfectly happy and stable on the surface.

From all the time since that happened until now, he had the chance to be strong and come forward for help. He felt the need to be a big strong guy and pretend like it wasn't suicide before rather than get help.

People don't just completely wake up one day and when trying to figure out what they want to do, decide they're depressed and off themselves. This is a long process. Anywhere in that process, a strong person admits something is wrong and asks for help.

That One Guy
05-02-2012, 06:47 PM
lol. the irony.

I just know the song but not the band. Is there irony with the band or something? Guess I don't get it.

Willynowei
05-02-2012, 07:02 PM
I just know the song but not the band. Is there irony with the band or something? Guess I don't get it.

Dude died from Aids.

And i'm not saying it was his fault, although, he did have sex w/ everyone that was willing from both genders, lol, so i hear.

Willynowei
05-02-2012, 07:05 PM
From all the time since that happened until now, he had the chance to be strong and come forward for help. He felt the need to be a big strong guy and pretend like it wasn't suicide before rather than get help.

People don't just completely wake up one day and when trying to figure out what they want to do, decide they're depressed and off themselves. This is a long process. Anywhere in that process, a strong person admits something is wrong and asks for help.

That makes sense, during down periods for the rest of us we catch a hold of ourselves or reach out for help. But I wonder if thats the case w/ people w/ CTE, does it put them in a state of dementia? Does it remove their ability to remember their close calls w/ suicide previously? Are they unable to evaluate their own mental health?

I wonder.

That One Guy
05-02-2012, 07:10 PM
That makes sense, during down periods for the rest of us we catch a hold of ourselves or reach out for help. But I wonder if thats the case w/ people w/ CTE, does it put them in a state of dementia? Does it remove their ability to remember their close calls w/ suicide previously? Are they unable to evaluate their own mental health?

I wonder.

CTE?

houghtam
05-02-2012, 07:49 PM
CTE?

Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy

barryr
05-02-2012, 08:21 PM
I never liked Seau since I thought he was a showboating jerk, but sad news indeed. What someone must be going though to think this is the only answer. RIP.

Punisher
05-02-2012, 08:26 PM
RIP

Captain 'Dre
05-02-2012, 08:29 PM
Whatever. This from a man who decided to be homeless drunk in Boulder.

When even the homeless drunks have lost all respect for you, that's a blaring signal that you're presenting yourself as a despicable human being.

Maybe you're actually a really decent person. You just aren't presenting yourself that way.

baja
05-02-2012, 08:33 PM
I never liked Seau since I thought he was a showboating jerk, but sad news indeed. What someone must be going though to think this is the only answer. RIP.
This is what i think many are missing here.

barryr
05-02-2012, 08:39 PM
This is what i think many are missing here.

Yep, was it not able to cope not being an NFL player? Money problems? Family problems? Depression? A combo of those things? Maybe we'll never know, but nothing to make light of that is for sure. It can happen to anybody if they feel there is no hope or help.

Vegas_Bronco
05-02-2012, 08:56 PM
When pain and anguish become you...you have lost the battle of hope and faith and given into dispair. Regrettably his dispair will cause a lot of pain for his family...i hope they find peace. My uncle did the same after drinking himself to dispair...one night I had a dream that he and I were looking at the same sunrise and he said that he sees all others that have died but his death caused a lot of pain and he would have to wait till he had a chance to amend the wrong doing before he could fully enjoy the sunrise and be at peace. Dont know how accurate that is but it was as real as could be for me. Hope Junior finds a way to make peace...carrying that pain into death is dangerous and sure causes a lot of pain...pray for his mom and family...theyll be full of self doubt.

boltaneer
05-02-2012, 09:03 PM
RIP Junior.

And for those of you who think suicide is a coward's way out, it's understandable. I used to think this way when I was a teenager because at the time I clearly has no concept of what kind of pain could lead someone to becoming suicidal. Obviously, people just don't kill themselves on a whim. There are significant reasons why, either they've exhausted all the efforts to escape the pain/depression, there are mental or medical problems that have developed, or both.

I'm not going to sit here and condone suicide. But let's not be ignorant enough to think that just because your life is going better than someone else (of which you have no idea of what's going on with their life), that you can judge their actions.

barryr
05-02-2012, 09:06 PM
When pain and anguish become you...you have lost the battle of hope and faith and given into dispair. Regrettably his dispair will cause a lot of pain for his family...i hope they find peace. My uncle did the same after drinking himself to dispair...one night I had a dream that he and I were looking at the same sunrise and he said that he sees all others that have died but his death caused a lot of pain and he would have to wait till he had a chance to amend the wrong doing before he could fully enjoy the sunrise and be at peace. Dont know how accurate that is but it was as real as could be for me. Hope Junior finds a way to make peace...carrying that pain into death is dangerous and sure causes a lot of pain...pray for his mom and family...theyll be full of self doubt.

I'm sure something like this makes people in families that experience this to look back and wonder about missed signs and how did they miss them. Plus, feel as though that person must not have thought they were not someone they could talk to about whatever problems were going on. I have never really experienced such a thing, but I bet the families do have guilt whether it is deserved or not thinking they could/should have done something, but reality is probably really nothing they could do other than maybe help the person seek help. But you can't make someone help themselves though.

Hamrob
05-02-2012, 09:30 PM
RIP Say-OW

One of the best I've ever seen at the LB position. Extremely sad occurrance!

GoBroncos DownUnder
05-02-2012, 09:41 PM
Back in 2000 I was lucky enough to get onto the sideline for the Broncos game against San Diego ... remember when Gus Frerotte set the single game record for pass yards(?) ... yeah THAT game!Hilarious!

While taking it all in, I ended up on the sidelines standing next to a guy and his son, the boy looked like he was about 6-7 and his father was taking photos of him on the sideline. Then I realised he was the "run out and get the kicking tee" kid for the day.
Chargers were doing their pre-game warm ups right in front of us, and the "tee kid" is posing there in his TD-30 jersey, and his father is taking photos.
At this point, Seau breaks off from the warm up drills and comes over to stand behind the kid and says "Hey TD, man you look like you lost some weight!?!?" then he looks at the boy's father (who is in SHOCK) and says "C'mon man, get me in the picture" and poses and points at the kid in the TD jersey.
Picture is taken and the father says "Thanks a lot".
Seau smiles, stands up, ... then ducks back down, saying "You might need another one, incase the first picture doesn't turn out!" And gets into the next picture!
He then went back to his pre-game drills.


From that moment onwards, I was a HUGE fan of Junior Seau, it was great to see a player do those kind of "funny" things, especially at an away game.

I was saddened today to hear of his passing, may he Rest In Peace.

SoCalBronco
05-02-2012, 09:46 PM
RIP Junior Seau...that really sucks. :(

I know he had some issues recently, this is a very sad day for fans of any team. :(

My condolences to his family and the Chargers fans.

strafen
05-02-2012, 09:59 PM
I don't know if this has been posted yet, and I'm not going to read 8 pages of this thread to find out, but I did hear on the radio today something really ****ed up, but it's true...

From the 1994 San Diego Chargers team Seau was part of and that lost to the 49ers in the superbowl, 8 of those players have died tragically...

El Jué
05-02-2012, 10:20 PM
My God, Junior. Was your pain and emptiness so much greater than the pain and emptiness your mother is feeling?

It must have been horrible, man.

broncocalijohn
05-02-2012, 10:23 PM
I don't know if this has been posted yet, and I'm not going to read 8 pages of this thread to find out, but I did hear on the radio today something really ****ed up, but it's true...

From the 1994 San Diego Chargers team Seau was part of and that lost to the 49ers in the superbowl, 8 of those players have died tragically...

and all under 45 too. You thought our 1977 Super Bowl team were falling like flies. Those guys are almost 20 years older.

DBroncos4life
05-02-2012, 10:23 PM
My God, Junior. Was your pain and emptiness so much greater than the pain and emptiness your mother is feeling?

It must have been horrible, man.

That was almost to much to watch.

That One Guy
05-02-2012, 10:57 PM
RIP Junior.

And for those of you who think suicide is a coward's way out, it's understandable. I used to think this way when I was a teenager because at the time I clearly has no concept of what kind of pain could lead someone to becoming suicidal. Obviously, people just don't kill themselves on a whim. There are significant reasons why, either they've exhausted all the efforts to escape the pain/depression, there are mental or medical problems that have developed, or both.

I'm not going to sit here and condone suicide. But let's not be ignorant enough to think that just because your life is going better than someone else (of which you have no idea of what's going on with their life), that you can judge their actions.

Someone willing to commit suicide and pass the burden of troubles to their survivors has lost focus of the important things in life, plain and simple. Rather than seek help, in a single squeeze of a trigger he took away a son, a father, a friend, etc. All because he didn't want to look weak by getting help.

I can't help but think that it's possible these guys see the "RIP XXX" moments after something like this happens and interpret that as honor and respect then see other guys fading away in life and being forgotten. I think a small part of not wanting to be old and forgotten could play a role in it. Even if there's a small chance that it's true, even if the faintest, any incentive we give to someone to kill themself is a mistake.

Then imagine those people who don't have one shred of success compared to these NFL players. Going out with suicide might be the only way they can make people miss them and realize how much they loved them. Again, it's completely out of left field and probably not a consideration of most people but just what if it's true to some degree? Convince people they're ruining their legacy and the entire memory of them and maybe they'll realize it's not an honorable way to die and not do it.

Going down with honor is something that allows a soldier to keep fighting even when the situation looks bleakest. Let's force these people to choose between their honor or the small bit of pride they might feel they'll lose if they seek help. I will never glamorize those that take their own lives but I've personally known too many who went down on the battlefield that never got to see their families again so I'm biased. I don't live my life to the fullest by any means but my family knows I'll always be there for them and that will never cease to be true. THAT is what Seau willingly took away. I can't hold any respect for a person willing to do that. I don't care for AT ALL how hard he thought life was.

That One Guy
05-02-2012, 10:58 PM
Back in 2000 I was lucky enough to get onto the sideline for the Broncos game against San Diego ... remember when Gus Frerotte set the single game record for pass yards(?) ... yeah THAT game!Hilarious!

While taking it all in, I ended up on the sidelines standing next to a guy and his son, the boy looked like he was about 6-7 and his father was taking photos of him on the sideline. Then I realised he was the "run out and get the kicking tee" kid for the day.
Chargers were doing their pre-game warm ups right in front of us, and the "tee kid" is posing there in his TD-30 jersey, and his father is taking photos.
At this point, Seau breaks off from the warm up drills and comes over to stand behind the kid and says "Hey TD, man you look like you lost some weight!?!?" then he looks at the boy's father (who is in SHOCK) and says "C'mon man, get me in the picture" and poses and points at the kid in the TD jersey.
Picture is taken and the father says "Thanks a lot".
Seau smiles, stands up, ... then ducks back down, saying "You might need another one, incase the first picture doesn't turn out!" And gets into the next picture!
He then went back to his pre-game drills.


From that moment onwards, I was a HUGE fan of Junior Seau, it was great to see a player do those kind of "funny" things, especially at an away game.

I was saddened today to hear of his passing, may he Rest In Peace.

He always seemed like a genuinely good guy. That definitely makes it harder.

manchambo
05-02-2012, 11:20 PM
He always seemed like a genuinely good guy. That definitely makes it harder.

To me it goes beyond just being a good guy. By all appearances he had a firm grasp of what was important in life and devoted a lot of his energy to helping others. Hard to believe that sort of person, with many objectively wonderful things in his life including children and enough money to take good care of them and basically do whatever he wanted, would lose perspective so completely. But that is exactly what depression does.

Los Broncos
05-03-2012, 12:02 AM
Just seen it on TV, pretty sad RIP.

Durango
05-03-2012, 01:14 AM
I'm so sad for Seau and his family. The more this happens, and it seems to happen more & more, you wonder if there's a neurological kink resulting from all the contact over the course of a career. The man had everything to live for.

Pseudofool
05-03-2012, 01:38 AM
It's obvious that Seau shot himself in the chest for a specific reason, whether it was to make carnage of his body or to preserve the head for study, whether it was due from pre existing mental illnesses or him laying out players with his helmet remains to be seen, but it is not because the method of suicide is quick or painless. This is no cowardly suicide. People shoot themselves in the chest to resonate. One would have to be cultural tone deaf not to see the trend of acknowledging the woes of former and current players due to head trauma. It's not that they happen at any greater frequency (but they probably do (bigger, faster, awesomer)), rather that we've (both the audience and the league) have been forced to recognize that there is a great physical and mental cost to professional american football. There is a growing belief about the viability of the NFL, or rather it's cultural dominance--and do we cringe when we realize such dominance is not in the justice or pure athleticism of the sport, but in it's spectacular violence? ****, we all lived for those ESPN hits of the night segments when we was wee. Football was grand because you could absolutely crush your opponent, so completely it chased the players throughout their lives.

More than this, that Seau was so revered, so universally respected, gives rise to the idea that the method of suicide wasn't by accident--that it was intentional, and in his mind, probably about more than himself. How else are we suppose to read this? (The whole Seau was just another suicidal freak doesn't hold a damn lick of salt.)

That One Guy
05-03-2012, 01:40 AM
I'm so sad for Seau and his family. The more this happens, and it seems to happen more & more, you wonder if there's a neurological kink resulting from all the contact over the course of a career. The man had everything to live for.

I absolutely hate these assumptions. I think you could make the same leap that knocking heads leads to bad money management skills as well but that doesn't make it so.

I guess, overall, one could make the argument that too many hits leads to bad decision making as a whole. That would encompass everything. Or, you could say that these guys have spent a lifetime being coddled because they were good at sports and now barely know how to make a good choice or deal with some adversity.

Pseudofool
05-03-2012, 01:45 AM
I guess, overall, one could make the argument that too many hits leads to bad decision making as a whole. That would encompass everything. Or, you could say that these guys have spent a lifetime being coddled because they were good at sports and now barely know how to make a good choice or deal with some adversity.Of course, the second option you offer is completely idiotic. So there's that.

No one knows for sure about the longterm affects NFL related head trauma, but it's better to be concerned than not concerned. That's all anyone is saying.

It's an assumption either way.

That One Guy
05-03-2012, 01:51 AM
Of course, the second option you offer is completely idiotic. So there's that.

No one knows for sure about the longterm affects NFL related head trauma, but it's better to be concerned than not concerned. That's all anyone is saying.

It's an assumption either way.

I won't be in the NFL anytime soon. I couldn't care less, to be honest. If they want to sell off their livelihood and make millions, let 'em party. I just care where it impacts society and this glamorization of suicide is disgusting. Excusing it is weak because it justifies it rather than making the next person stop and think "WTF am I doing?"

extralife
05-03-2012, 02:01 AM
I like how you think people are so flippant that they would off themselves so as to appear trendy.

cutthemdown
05-03-2012, 02:07 AM
Will the players later regret taking a hard stance on concussions? As more and more say hey I am crazy, depressed, and commit suicide what will the owners do to protect themselves from lawsuits? I know they talk about concussion protocol but what about when owners says so many concussions and you are done. Find a new job here is your severance pay right? Players may find out they get retired younger and younger.

That One Guy
05-03-2012, 03:40 AM
I like how you think people are so flippant that they would off themselves so as to appear trendy.

Despite all the training, prevention, treatment, etc, the national rates don't go down. Either you have to believe that the system put in place has almost zero effect or you have to think more people are suicidal yet even after some are saved, the overall rates stay the same.

So if we assume suicide awareness, treatment, etc are having some effect, then we also have to assume that more people are suicidal than before, right? What is it called if more people are doing something? A trend?

Arkie
05-03-2012, 06:40 AM
CTE?

It's the accumulation of tau proteins on the brain. It's very real, and I'm 99% sure that Seau suffered from it. The only way to find out is to examine the brain postmortem. The brown spots are the tau proteins in the brains on the right.

http://chronictraumaticencephalopathy.com/cte_images/chronic_traumatic_encephalopathy_healthy_vs_tau_pr otein.jpg

Dave Duerson, Shane Dronett, and many others have killed themselves. Mike Webster's brain was destroyed by this disease too.

“His life after football had been mysterious and tragic, and on the news they were going on and on about it. What had happened to him? How does a guy go from four Super Bowl rings to…pissing in his own oven and squirting Super Glue on his rotting teeth? Mike Webster bought himself a Taser gun, used that on himself to treat his back pain, would zap himself into unconsciousness just to get some sleep. Mike Webster lost all his money, or maybe gave it away. He forgot. A lot of lawsuits. Mike Webster forgot how to eat, too. Soon Mike Webster was homeless, living in a truck, one of its windows replaced with a garbage bag and tape.”

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-03-2012, 07:00 AM
“His life after football had been mysterious and tragic, and on the news they were going on and on about it. What had happened to him? How does a guy go from four Super Bowl rings to…pissing in his own oven and squirting Super Glue on his rotting teeth? Mike Webster bought himself a Taser gun, used that on himself to treat his back pain, would zap himself into unconsciousness just to get some sleep. Mike Webster lost all his money, or maybe gave it away. He forgot. A lot of lawsuits. Mike Webster forgot how to eat, too. Soon Mike Webster was homeless, living in a truck, one of its windows replaced with a garbage bag and tape.”

Seems like exactly what he signed up for when he started playing pro football... in the 70s.

/rolleyes

maher_tyler
05-03-2012, 07:05 AM
I won't be in the NFL anytime soon. I couldn't care less, to be honest. If they want to sell off their livelihood and make millions, let 'em party. I just care where it impacts society and this glamorization of suicide is disgusting. Excusing it is weak because it justifies it rather than making the next person stop and think "WTF am I doing?"

Suicide is selfish no matter what way you look at it. What about his family? By ending one persons pain your creating pain for a lot more. If you're so low you have serious thoughts to commit suicide, you need to get help. Millions suffer from depression. It's ok to get help. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-03-2012, 07:14 AM
Suicide is selfish no matter what way you look at it. What about his family? By ending one persons pain your creating pain for a lot more. If you're so low you have serious thoughts to commit suicide, you need to get help. Millions suffer from depression. It's ok to get help. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

And if your brain isn't functioning enough that asking for help occurs to you...

The problem is, you're looking at this through the prism of a regularly functioning brain. I sincerely wonder if Seau had that. I know Duerson didn't.

manchambo
05-03-2012, 07:44 AM
Despite all the training, prevention, treatment, etc, the national rates don't go down. Either you have to believe that the system put in place has almost zero effect or you have to think more people are suicidal yet even after some are saved, the overall rates stay the same.

So if we assume suicide awareness, treatment, etc are having some effect, then we also have to assume that more people are suicidal than before, right? What is it called if more people are doing something? A trend?

The first sentence is utterly false and more proof that you are talking out your ass. Suicide rates have dropped significantly since around 1990. One suspects they have risen in ex nfl players, though the sample is probably too small to draw any conclusions.

JLesSPE
05-03-2012, 07:48 AM
It's the accumulation of tau proteins on the brain. It's very real, and I'm 99% sure that Seau suffered from it. The only way to find out is to examine the brain postmortem. The brown spots are the tau proteins in the brains on the right.

http://chronictraumaticencephalopathy.com/cte_images/chronic_traumatic_encephalopathy_healthy_vs_tau_pr otein.jpg

Dave Duerson, Shane Dronett, and many others have killed themselves. Mike Webster's brain was destroyed by this disease too.

If you google CTE it states that 47 professional athletes have been diagnosed with CTE. Among the names on the list, Junior Seau.

Dr. Broncenstein
05-03-2012, 07:54 AM
Clearly the NFL is negligent in allowing Seau to accumulate 20 years of football related traumatic encephalopathy. Same goes for the makers of every helmet he ever wore. Let's not forget that he likely played on hard artificial turf surfaces early on, so there are turf makers and stadium owners who are liable as well. Football is a monster and must be litigated out of existence.

extralife
05-03-2012, 07:54 AM
Despite all the training, prevention, treatment, etc, the national rates don't go down. Either you have to believe that the system put in place has almost zero effect or you have to think more people are suicidal yet even after some are saved, the overall rates stay the same.

So if we assume suicide awareness, treatment, etc are having some effect, then we also have to assume that more people are suicidal than before, right? What is it called if more people are doing something? A trend?

way to confuse effects for causes

I mean there are actual points of discussion here, but if the interlocutor is displaying the logical capabilities of a tree one is less inclined to follow up on them.

manchambo
05-03-2012, 08:14 AM
Clearly the NFL is negligent in allowing Seau to accumulate 20 years of football related traumatic encephalopathy. Same goes for the makers of every helmet he ever wore. Let's not forget that he likely played on hard artificial turf surfaces early on, so there are turf makers and stadium owners who are liable as well. Football is a monster and must be litigated out of existence.

I don't know if that's "clear." if the nfl knew about these effects and didn't act reasonably to disclose them, or ignored warning signs and didn't take reasonable steps to investigate, they were negligent. That's what negligence is by definition.

boltaneer
05-03-2012, 08:17 AM
I love how people make it seem like you can just pop a pill or go the see a "shrink" and you'll be magically cured of your depression, especially when we're talking about CTE.

I'd suggest reading up on CTE and educate yourself on what it really is.

Dr. Broncenstein
05-03-2012, 08:18 AM
I don't know if that's "clear." if the nfl knew about these effects and didn't act reasonably to disclose them, or ignored warning signs and didn't take reasonable steps to investigate, they were negligent. That's what negligence is by definition.

Maybe you should look up sarcasm while you still have the dictionary out.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-03-2012, 08:23 AM
The Night Junior Seau Picked Up A Marine Captain’s Tab And Serenaded Bar Patrons With A Ukulele

http://deadspin.com/5907297/the-night-junior-seau-picked-up-a-marine-captains-tab-and-serenaded-bar-patrons-with-a-ukulele

Dr. Broncenstein
05-03-2012, 08:40 AM
The Night Junior Seau Picked Up A Marine Captain’s Tab And Serenaded Bar Patrons With A Ukulele

http://deadspin.com/5907297/the-night-junior-seau-picked-up-a-marine-captains-tab-and-serenaded-bar-patrons-with-a-ukulele

That's a truly cool story.... Bro.

houghtam
05-03-2012, 08:59 AM
“His life after football had been mysterious and tragic, and on the news they were going on and on about it. What had happened to him? How does a guy go from four Super Bowl rings to…pissing in his own oven and squirting Super Glue on his rotting teeth? Mike Webster bought himself a Taser gun, used that on himself to treat his back pain, would zap himself into unconsciousness just to get some sleep. Mike Webster lost all his money, or maybe gave it away. He forgot. A lot of lawsuits. Mike Webster forgot how to eat, too. Soon Mike Webster was homeless, living in a truck, one of its windows replaced with a garbage bag and tape.”

Seems like exactly what he signed up for when he started playing pro football... in the 70s.

/rolleyes

The people who hold this argument, I will never understand. "That what you signed up for" and "you get paid a lot of money so you deserve what you get" are both terrible excuses, and frankly, it says a lot about someone with that opinion, that they are okay with life-altering diseases for people as long as they get to see their precious little game played the same way it was when they were kids. "Wear a skirt, you sissy!" could just as easily be replaced by me with "pick your knuckles up off the ground."

Keep in mind most of the people with that opinion have never played more than high school football...it's interesting to hear the opinions of people who have never sniffed the playing field at any meaningful level and which can affect the long-term mental health of the players they love to see play, it really is.

Think about what type of person you really are, if you're okay with owners allowing things like this to continue to happen for the sake of the game. I'm okay with these rule changes, I'm all for protecting the players, and I'm all for silencing the voices of these "macho" guys who talk out of both sides of their mouth.

maher_tyler
05-03-2012, 09:08 AM
And if your brain isn't functioning enough that asking for help occurs to you...

The problem is, you're looking at this through the prism of a regularly functioning brain. I sincerely wonder if Seau had that. I know Duerson didn't.

That would be sad if that is the reasoning. You'd think someone would notice something is wrong...

baja
05-03-2012, 09:14 AM
It's obvious that Seau shot himself in the chest for a specific reason, whether it was to make carnage of his body or to preserve the head for study, whether it was due from pre existing mental illnesses or him laying out players with his helmet remains to be seen, but it is not because the method of suicide is quick or painless. This is no cowardly suicide. People shoot themselves in the chest to resonate. One would have to be cultural tone deaf not to see the trend of acknowledging the woes of former and current players due to head trauma. It's not that they happen at any greater frequency (but they probably do (bigger, faster, awesomer)), rather that we've (both the audience and the league) have been forced to recognize that there is a great physical and mental cost to professional american football. There is a growing belief about the viability of the NFL, or rather it's cultural dominance--and do we cringe when we realize such dominance is not in the justice or pure athleticism of the sport, but in it's spectacular violence? ****, we all lived for those ESPN hits of the night segments when we was wee. Football was grand because you could absolutely crush your opponent, so completely it chased the players throughout their lives.

More than this, that Seau was so revered, so universally respected, gives rise to the idea that the method of suicide wasn't by accident--that it was intentional, and in his mind, probably about more than himself. How else are we suppose to read this? (The whole Seau was just another suicidal freak doesn't hold a damn lick of salt.)

Maybe we should consider the rugby example and take away all protection it would force a different style of play. The helmet would not be available to use as a weapon. Anyone know what the post playing health statistics of rugby players are?

Willynowei
05-03-2012, 09:14 AM
I don't know if that's "clear." if the nfl knew about these effects and didn't act reasonably to disclose them, or ignored warning signs and didn't take reasonable steps to investigate, they were negligent. That's what negligence is by definition.

He's just hating on lawyers.

Clearly the NFL is negligent in allowing Seau to accumulate 20 years of football related traumatic encephalopathy. Same goes for the makers of every helmet he ever wore. Let's not forget that he likely played on hard artificial turf surfaces early on, so there are turf makers and stadium owners who are liable as well. Football is a monster and must be litigated out of existence.


Doc, don't hate the playa, hate the game.

maher_tyler
05-03-2012, 09:16 AM
The Night Junior Seau Picked Up A Marine Captain’s Tab And Serenaded Bar Patrons With A Ukulele

http://deadspin.com/5907297/the-night-junior-seau-picked-up-a-marine-captains-tab-and-serenaded-bar-patrons-with-a-ukulele

Great read!!

baja
05-03-2012, 09:18 AM
Dr. Broncenstein to patient, " Rub some dirt on it, that'll be 100 bucks please pay on your way out".

Willynowei
05-03-2012, 09:22 AM
There's a million ways to reduce this type of stuff, but not to eliminate it. And just to reduce this stuff will annoy some teams and their fans. For example, they could ban fast surfaces entirely, which would reduce collision impact due to reduced speeds, would people want to see that?

They could tell the players to actually wear their pads, that would be a nice start, although i don't know how much it would help. (actually i do know how much it would help, ALOT, if you forced everyone to wear more pads you effectively reduce playing speed drastically, everyone plays slower, and as a result EVERYONE hits less hard).

They could lengthen the required rest time after concussions and consider forced retirements for players with multiple concussions based on randomnized testing (because if you think every competitor will tell a trainer that he's "hurt", you are crazy). I can almost guarantee you randomnized health testing would reveal to people just how neurotic and crazy you have to be to play football at a high level.

They could lengthen the season by 1 week, but not add any games (only adding in an extra bye week so everything is better spaced out).

They could put a limit league wide for the amount of full-contact allowed in practices up to a certain point so that the "old school" coaches who gain toughness and tackling ability in his team at the expense of stamina have to think of another way.

They could even revisit the amount of crazy hitting that goes on in the faster paced passing game vs. the slower paced running games of years past and think very hard about whether or not they should actually allow corners to touch receivers on the outside like they could years ago, instead of this patty-cake no-contact after 5 yards bull**** i see today.

They could do all that. And they probably will when the media shi-tstorm gets large enough.

manchambo
05-03-2012, 09:24 AM
Maybe you should look up sarcasm while you still have the dictionary out.

I was fully aware of your sarcasm. And as a civil defense lawyer I didn't really need a dictionary to know what negligence is. I was merely pointing out (apparently too subtly to effectively communicate with you) that (i) your sarcasm was essentially a straw man argument because no one knows for sure at this point what nfl knew or did so it is of course not clear whether nfl was negligent-that's what discovery is for and (ii) it is certainly possible that the nfl was, contrary to your sarcastic implication, negligent with respect to this issue-it certainly wouldn't be the first time a large organization ignored health issues in the name of profits (in fact that sort of behavior will put my kids through college).

Wes Mantooth
05-03-2012, 09:24 AM
I mentioned this earlier, but what if OJ were tried today? He most certainly could argue head trauma from football made him kill his wife.

Meck77
05-03-2012, 09:27 AM
What someone must be going though to think this is the only answer. RIP.

The benefits of a calm mind explained. A little difficult to understand but worth 4 minutes of your time.


http://dalailama.com/webcasts/post/126-the-benefits-of-a-calm-mind

Suicide is drastic and it gets reactions like this thread but the reality is people are killing themselves around us everyday. Is a slow suicide any different from a fast one? Be it smoking, alcoholism, obesity, stress maybe one of the most SELF destructive behaviors. ANGER. Many of these habits or states of mind we blame on others yet they have nothing to do with anyone else. They have everything to do with your own mind.

We all have the choice to live with a calm mind or not. It takes practice though just like football. There is obviously a generation of players who may not have understood the risks of playing the game but there is no doubt now they will going forward.

The delusional mind is a dangerous mind to ourselves and others.

Toshiro Takashi
05-03-2012, 09:32 AM
His last words were "Junior Say Ow!"

Too soon?

Dr. Broncenstein
05-03-2012, 09:35 AM
I was fully aware of your sarcasm. And as a civil defense lawyer I didn't really need a dictionary to know what negligence is. I was merely pointing out (apparently too subtly to effectively communicate with you) that (i) your sarcasm was essentially a straw man argument because no one knows for sure at this point what nfl knew or did so it is of course not clear whether nfl was negligent-that's what discovery is for and (ii) it is certainly possible that the nfl was, contrary to your sarcastic implication, negligent with respect to this issue-it certainly wouldn't be the first time a large organization ignored health issues in the name of profits (in fact that sort of behavior will put my kids through college).

It's always the fault of someone else... as long as that someone has money.

Willynowei
05-03-2012, 09:36 AM
I was fully aware of your sarcasm. And as a civil defense lawyer I didn't really need a dictionary to know what negligence is. I was merely pointing out (apparently too subtly to effectively communicate with you) that (i) your sarcasm was essentially a straw man argument because no one knows for sure at this point what nfl knew or did so it is of course not clear whether nfl was negligent-that's what discovery is for and (ii) it is certainly possible that the nfl was, contrary to your sarcastic implication, negligent with respect to this issue-it certainly wouldn't be the first time a large organization ignored health issues in the name of profits (in fact that sort of behavior will put my kids through college).

My fantasy is that there comes a claim in the future and Doc ends up being the expert witness! Hilarious!

Oh my god, i would tear up, i really would.

Dr. Broncenstein
05-03-2012, 09:41 AM
My fantasy is that there comes a claim in the future and Doc ends up being the expert witness! Hilarious!

Oh my god, i would tear up, i really would.

I'd mention something about personal responsibility and common sense... and I would be swiftly dismissed.

BroncoInferno
05-03-2012, 09:44 AM
I'd mention something about personal responsibility and common sense... and I would be swiftly dismissed.

And why shouldn't corporations have to take "personal responsibility" for negligence? The Supreme Court did rule that they are "persons," afterall.

Dr. Broncenstein
05-03-2012, 09:54 AM
And why shouldn't corporations have to take "personal responsibility" for negligence? The Supreme Court did rule that they are "persons," afterall.

Let's not lose sight of what's really important here: punishing the NFL for killing Seau. We're going to put the system on trial. Sure it looks like suicide... but the NFL might as well have pulled the trigger.

Meck77
05-03-2012, 09:58 AM
Let's not lose sight of what's really important here: punishing the NFL for killing Seau. We're going to put the system on trial. Sure it looks like suicide... but the NFL might as well have pulled the trigger.

So does the tobacco company pull the trigger when a person puts a cigarette in their mouth or is it the actual consumer of the cigarette killing themselves?

*edit* Just saw your comment on personal responsibility. Personal responsibility is not a very popular concept anymore....

Dr. Broncenstein
05-03-2012, 10:03 AM
So does the tobacco company pull the trigger when a person puts a cigarette in their mouth or is it the actual consumer of the cigarette killing themselves?

Lol it's the doctors fault for not recommending smoking cessation. I am not kidding one bit here. I literally document "recommended smoking cessation" for every smoker I see, because there have been actual lawsuits over this.

baja
05-03-2012, 10:12 AM
So does the tobacco company pull the trigger when a person puts a cigarette in their mouth or is it the actual consumer of the cigarette killing themselves?

*edit* Just saw your comment on personal responsibility. Personal responsibility is not a very popular concept anymore....

It is in Mexico..


We don't need no stinking litigation lawyers.

manchambo
05-03-2012, 10:14 AM
It's always the fault of someone else... as long as that someone has money.

You apparently think it's never someone else's fault. Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. I don't understand why it's crazy to suggest that the NFL might have done less than it should have done to protect players from head injuries.

houghtam
05-03-2012, 10:18 AM
You apparently think it's never someone else's fault. Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. I don't understand why it's crazy to suggest that the NFL might have done less than it should have done to protect players from head injuries.

Exactly, and that is for the courts to decide, not some two-bit hack on an internet message board who watches rather than participates.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-03-2012, 10:19 AM
You apparently think it's never someone else's fault. Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. I don't understand why it's crazy to suggest that the NFL might have done less than it should have done to protect players from head injuries.

A corporation keeping information from a person to increase profits? No way. Not in America.

Meck77
05-03-2012, 10:22 AM
It is in Mexico..


We don't need no stinking litigation lawyers.

Hilarious!

Says the poster who regularly complains that American is destroying mexico. Where is this personal responsibility you speak of? So have you smoked your cigars with the lizard people lately? Hey wait a second! It's 2012! We are still alive baja! Imagine that!

Like I was saying earlier. A delusional mind is a a self destructive mind.....

houghtam
05-03-2012, 10:23 AM
Hilarious!

Says the poster who regularly complains that American is destroying mexico. Where is this personal responsibility you speak of? So have you smoked your cigars with the lizard people lately? Hey wait a second! It's 2012! We are still alive baja! Imagine that!

Like I was saying earlier. A delusional mind is a a self destructive mind.....

Which is exactly why we should be getting these people help!

Oh wait, you were talking about baja.

LOL nvm.

DBroncos4life
05-03-2012, 10:24 AM
You apparently think it's never someone else's fault. Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. I don't understand why it's crazy to suggest that the NFL might have done less than it should have done to protect players from head injuries.

I think you are going to have a hard time proving that the NFL was aware of the fact the beating the players took during that time would have this effect on the players.

BroncoInferno
05-03-2012, 10:29 AM
Let's not lose sight of what's really important here: punishing the NFL for killing Seau. We're going to put the system on trial. Sure it looks like suicide... but the NFL might as well have pulled the trigger.

I've noticed this strange contradiction in conservative thinking. In disputes between the individual and the government, the individual always gets the benefit of the doubt. But when there is a dispute between between an individual and a corporation, the benefit of the doubt goes to the corporation, and the individual is assumed to be either a fraudster or a crybaby unwilling to accept "personal responsibility." Bizarre.

DomCasual
05-03-2012, 10:32 AM
I don't want to read through this abortion of a thread to see if it's been mentioned, but his family has said that they can't ever remember him mentioning the NFL concussion issue. They think it's ludicrous to assume that he shot himself in the chest to preserve his brain for examination. They aren't planning on letting anyone see his brain.

Dr. Broncenstein
05-03-2012, 10:33 AM
I've noticed this strange contradiction in conservative thinking. In disputes between the individual and the government, the individual always gets the benefit of the doubt. But when there is a dispute between between an inidividual and a corporation, the benefit of the doubt goes to the coroporation, and the individual is assumed to be either a fraudster or a crybaby unwilling to accept "personal responsibility." Bizarre.

Maybe you should try suing the government. Ask Meck about that.

DarkHorse
05-03-2012, 10:33 AM
Unfortunately I feel like football is on a slow roll downhill. If this turns out to be damage caused by the game it's gonna roll a lot faster.

Meck77
05-03-2012, 10:38 AM
Without a doubt darkhorse. The lawyer$ are licking their chop$.

Dr. Broncenstein
05-03-2012, 10:39 AM
I don't want to read through this abortion of a thread to see if it's been mentioned, but his family has said that they can't ever remember him mentioning the NFL concussion issue. They think it's ludicrous to assume that he shot himself in the chest to preserve his brain for examination. They aren't planning on letting anyone see his brain.

I don't think the family has a choice... unless the medical examiner forgoes an autopsy.

BroncoInferno
05-03-2012, 10:43 AM
Maybe you should try suing the government. Ask Meck about that.

I'm not saying that government doesn't deserve some suspension, I just don't understand why in these sorts of disputes conservatives will direct the brunt of their suspensions onto the individual, as if corporations are by rule ethical institutions.