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bronco0608
04-30-2012, 07:06 AM
For all you b****ing about the derek wolfe selection, trading down to get him, where we selected him, how we selected him, and everything else in between, here is a nice article before the draft about Kiper hyping up Wolfe as a first round pick.



Draft analyst says data, performance adds up to a possible 1st-round selection


Mel Kiper Jr. surprised some when he put UC defensive lineman Derek Wolfe down as a first-round pick, going to New England at 31. During a teleconference last week, the ESPN draft analyst gave a three-minute explanation why.

Kiper’s two major points were that when you compare Wolfe’s productivity against the other defensive tackles in this class, Wolfe has a huge advantage. He also pointed to Wolfe’s combine performance where at 6-foot-5, 295 pounds, Wolfe ran the 40 in 4.94 seconds and did a 33½-inch vertical jump.

“You say, well they’re just numbers, but you’re testing the athletic ability, you’re testing the explosiveness, the quickness, and you’re also testing to see how they stack up against all the other guys in all those categories,” Kiper said. “Now, in terms of the overall ability of a guy, if you want to talk about the elite defensive tackles, is he Dontari Poe?, no, but is he tremendously more productive than Poe was? Sure he was.”

On Kiper’s point about productivity, there are few who could compare to Wolfe. Wolfe is fifth among defensive tackles on Kiper’s board after having 70 tackles, 21.5 tackles for loss and 9.5 sacks last season. Of the four in front of Wolfe, the only one who remotely comes close on tackles for loss is Mississippi State’s Fletcher Cox, who had 14.5 among his 56 stops.

“Wolfe was behind the line of scrimmage wreaking havoc, he showed pass rush ability. You’ve got to love the fact that when you look back in his career, a rough, tough aggressive player,” Kiper said. “The production – the computer numbers match the production and vice versa.”

Kiper also likes Wolfe’s versatility. Should he land in a 3-4 scheme, Wolfe could be a defensive end. While Kiper is effusive in his praise, NFL Network’s Mike Mayock was a little more reserved, saying Wolfe is a late second or early third-round player. If both are right though, Wolfe should be off the board by the end of Friday night (Day 2).

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120422/SPT02/304220063/Kiper-stands-by-UC-s-Wolfe?odyssey=tab%7Cmostpopular%7Ctext%7CSPT

Rabb
04-30-2012, 07:09 AM
I am personally very excited to see this kid play, loved the pick.

Hungry like the Wolfe mother****ers

55CrushEm
04-30-2012, 07:12 AM
I still think it's funny that NFL.com put a grade of less than 50 on him.....which means he should have been a UDFA.

:giggle:

jhns
04-30-2012, 07:14 AM
We have Fox and Del Rio. I really don't see why anyone would question any defensive picks. I think they know what they are looking for.

lolcopter
04-30-2012, 07:30 AM
Pass rushing DT... I take it

Crushisback
04-30-2012, 07:45 AM
He was my favorite of the DT's other than Cox and now that he's ours.... **** Cox Wolfe is way better!

Beantown Bronco
04-30-2012, 08:13 AM
We have Fox and Del Rio. I really don't see why anyone would question any defensive picks. I think they know what they are looking for.

Sarcasm?

socalorado
04-30-2012, 08:14 AM
We have Fox and Del Rio. I really don't see why anyone would question any defensive picks. I think they know what they are looking for.

^THIS.

Any of you wondering why we traded down should simply remember who wanted Wolfe and why.
Also, look at where all those other DTs ended up being taken. So many of us had BThomson and Still and Ta'amu as late 1st, early 2nd round player and look where they went. It seems that there was a reason they ended up going much later that projected.

Smiling Assassin27
04-30-2012, 08:41 AM
You mean that jerk in Baltimore? :)

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Lestat
04-30-2012, 08:50 AM
not really worried about picking knocking the pick, i wanna see him produce and develop. if he does what was said is moot as he'll be a starting DT who can penetrate.

Kaylore
04-30-2012, 09:32 AM
If the Patriots, Steelers or the Ravens picked this guy, would anyone be as skeptical?

houghtam
04-30-2012, 09:46 AM
If the Patriots, Steelers or the Ravens picked this guy, would anyone be as skeptical?

I would. I graduated from UC, and follow the team and the program fairly closely (compared to other teams not named Michigan State). Suffice it to say that I will be pleasantly surprised if he turns out to be more than a rotational guy for us.

cmhargrove
04-30-2012, 09:48 AM
Wow, I didn't see the 70 tackles last year, that is pretty incredible. It seems like most of our D-tackles usually average about 40-50 per year, 70 is major production.

Pendejo
04-30-2012, 09:49 AM
If the Patriots, Steelers or the Ravens picked this guy, would anyone be as skeptical?

The Donks have brought the skepticism on themselves.

I personally like the pick, but it's not hard to reason out why some might question the Donks' logic in making the pick whereas they might give the other teams mentioned a free pass. They're perennially stout. The good guys aren't.

Gcver2ver3
04-30-2012, 09:55 AM
Five different experts would give five different top five DT rankings... it was anybody's guess on who is really the best...

Mcshea had wolfe graded low and kiper had him as a first rd grade... who knows?...

When it comes to DT there was clearly no concensus so i dont see why people question
this pick...

Bronco Rob
04-30-2012, 09:59 AM
You mean that jerk in Baltimore? :)

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UHiUqL2KLiM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>




:thumbs:

Gcver2ver3
04-30-2012, 10:01 AM
The Donks have brought the skepticism on themselves.


How?...

Elways draft last year netted three starters...

Elways team won the afc west...

Elway landed the biggest free agent ever in the offseason...

In his short time span i'd say he has sort of earned the benefit of the doubt for now at least...

Beantown Bronco
04-30-2012, 10:03 AM
i dont see why people question
this pick...

Dude. You've been posting here for 7 years. Have you not been paying attention? :)

delany
04-30-2012, 10:09 AM
I would. I graduated from UC, and follow the team and the program fairly closely (compared to other teams not named Michigan State). Suffice it to say that I will be pleasantly surprised if he turns out to be more than a rotational guy for us.

So you follow the program closely. Obviously saw his production.

What don't you like about the kid that JDR and Fox are missing?

orinjkrush
04-30-2012, 10:11 AM
i hope he pans out. but Cincinatti plays who again?

Lestat
04-30-2012, 10:14 AM
I would. I graduated from UC, and follow the team and the program fairly closely (compared to other teams not named Michigan State). Suffice it to say that I will be pleasantly surprised if he turns out to be more than a rotational guy for us.

but you wanted Jerel Worthy in the first round? ok that makes no sense. his motor and compete level is better than Worthy.

Houshyamama
04-30-2012, 10:15 AM
Wait, we like Kiper now? It's hard to keep track.

Pendejo
04-30-2012, 10:16 AM
How?...

Elways draft last year netted three starters...

Elways team won the afc west...

Elway landed the biggest free agent ever in the offseason...

In his short time span i'd say he has sort of earned the benefit of the doubt for now at least...

I thought I was clear. The teams that Kaylore mentioned...especially Pittsburgh and Baltimore are always tough up front. The Broncos on the other hand have been picking busts for years and years. So obviously people are going to be more confident in a player on the d-line when the other teams draft him. They draft studs. The Donks pick scrubs. It's as simple as that.

The skepticism will ease when Denver's d-line ceases to be dragged up and down the field all day.

I like the Wolfe pick, but it's easy for me to understand why some would look at the Donks making the pick with a raised brow...whereas if the Ravens took him the obligatory patting of Newsome's pack would ensue. It's really not very complicated.

Heyneck
04-30-2012, 10:19 AM
I love the pick!!! I have been screaming at the TV for our lack of ability to put pressure up the middle!!! I can feel he will turn up a really good player.

On another note... everything Kipper says, I take with a grain of salt. Remember... he once compared Jabba the Russel to Elway.

Gcver2ver3
04-30-2012, 10:22 AM
Dude. You've been posting here for 7 years. Have you not been paying attention? :)

True, you'd think by now i would know better...

baja
04-30-2012, 10:25 AM
I thought I was clear. The teams that Kaylore mentioned...especially Pittsburgh and Baltimore are always tough up front. The Broncos on the other hand have been picking busts for years and years. So obviously people are going to be more confident in a player on the d-line when the other teams draft him. They draft studs. The Donks pick scrubs. It's as simple as that.



The skepticism will ease when Denver's d-line ceases to be dragged up and down the field all day.

I like the Wolfe pick, but it's easy for me to understand why some would look at the Donks making the pick with a raised brow...whereas if the Ravens took him the obligatory patting of Newsome's pack would ensue. It's really not very complicated.

Don't see how you can justify using several years of bad drafting to evaluate EFX. Truth is they have a one year sample base to go off of.

StugotsIII
04-30-2012, 10:30 AM
:thumbs:

Who the f*** is Bill Tobin?


And for the record…Kiper was right on the Colts taking f***ing Trev Alberts instead of Dilfer. Dilfer has a Super Bowl ring and Alberts never did anything.

StugotsIII
04-30-2012, 10:31 AM
i hope he pans out. but Cincinatti plays who again?

They play in a AQ BCS conference...

Kaylore
04-30-2012, 10:33 AM
The Donks have brought the skepticism on themselves.

I personally like the pick, but it's not hard to reason out why some might question the Donks' logic in making the pick whereas they might give the other teams mentioned a free pass. They're perennially stout. The good guys aren't.

The Patriots have more first round busts than we do the last five years.

Chris
04-30-2012, 10:34 AM
I'm reasonably satisfied with the picks the past two years. I think we're well prepared scouting-wise and see through the bull****. I think you see that in our UDFA pickups. That said, I think the Broncos suck at draft day gamesmanship and adjustments.

Gcver2ver3
04-30-2012, 10:38 AM
I thought I was clear. The teams that Kaylore mentioned...especially Pittsburgh and Baltimore are always tough up front. The Broncos on the other hand have been picking busts for years and years. So obviously people are going to be more confident in a player on the d-line when the other teams draft him. They draft studs. The Donks pick scrubs. It's as simple as that.

The skepticism will ease when Denver's d-line ceases to be dragged up and down the field all day.

I like the Wolfe pick, but it's easy for me to understand why some would look at the Donks making the pick with a raised brow...whereas if the Ravens took him the obligatory patting of Newsome's pack would ensue. It's really not very complicated.

I just dont see the logic in bringing up anything done prior to elways arrival...

BroncoBeavis
04-30-2012, 10:39 AM
Who the **** is Bill Tobin?


And for the record…Kiper was right on the Colts taking ****ing Trev Alberts instead of Dilfer. Dilfer has a Super Bowl ring and Alberts never did anything.

Dilfer did once get a piggy back ride from Ray Lewis, so he's got that goin' for him. :)

pricejj
04-30-2012, 10:42 AM
i hope he pans out. but Cincinatti plays who again?

UCONN (Reyes) plays who again? Syracuse (Jones) plays who again?

Former Big East DPOY's:
Jabaal Sheard
Elvis Dumervil
Dwight Freeney
Ed Reed

...to name a few.

houghtam
04-30-2012, 10:45 AM
but you wanted Jerel Worthy in the first round? ok that makes no sense. his motor and compete level is better than Worthy.

I never wanted Worthy in the first, I just said he would be picked in the first.

But my number one beef is competition. The Big East isn't the same conference it was, and the games Wolfe produced in weren't exactly against top notch competition. Go look at the offensive rankings of the teams he did well against. That's what I'm concerned about. If he produces, I'll be happy, but it's not something I'm expecting at this point.

Vegas_Bronco
04-30-2012, 10:49 AM
He said he will never let a guy beat him...likes his opponent with his hands on his hips and face covered in snot...he never lets the opponent think theyve won. This kid wont quit till he is broken in half...love the determination and i hope he can translate well to the nfl. Would love to see him work on leg strnght and become more of a natural bender instead of getting those pads too high too soon.

Lestat
04-30-2012, 10:52 AM
I never wanted Worthy in the first, I just said he would be picked in the first.

But my number one beef is competition. The Big East isn't the same conference it was, and the games Wolfe produced in weren't exactly against top notch competition. Go look at the offensive rankings of the teams he did well against. That's what I'm concerned about. If he produces, I'll be happy, but it's not something I'm expecting at this point.

far too much hype put into that. Big East produces good players all the time, is it the SEC or B1G? no but they don't just put out UDFA's either.

Bronco Rob
04-30-2012, 11:18 AM
Who the **** is Bill Tobin?


And for the record…Kiper was right on the Colts taking ****ing Trev Alberts instead of Dilfer. Dilfer has a Super Bowl ring and Alberts never did anything.



:strong:

Pony Boy
04-30-2012, 11:40 AM
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rbackfactory80
04-30-2012, 11:43 AM
I liked the pick more before I knew Kiper was all gung ho about it.

UberBroncoMan
04-30-2012, 11:43 AM
If the Patriots, Steelers or the Ravens picked this guy, would anyone be as skeptical?

He was actually supposed to go to the Ravens right before us. He said he was fuming when the Ravens didn't pick him due to how much time he spent with them and their talks.

Then he got a call about a minute later being told he was a Bronco.

Rabb
04-30-2012, 12:33 PM
I like his attitude, not cocky but confident

R8R H8R
04-30-2012, 12:39 PM
When it comes to defensive players, I will always give Fox/JDR the benefit of the doubt until they are proved right or wrong on a given player. The fact that Kiper likes this pick only means he heard something from other personnel guys that they saw something in Wolfe that justified taking early in the 2nd.

Contrary to popular belief, Kiper does not evaluate players like a scout or GM does, he never had that job--ever, he just is good at networking around the league and picking the brains of personnel staff of various teams.

So what this means is Fox/JDR liked Wolfe for thier system better than other guys, and apparently other GM's/scouts liked the value there also.

Bacchus
04-30-2012, 12:43 PM
If the Patriots, Steelers or the Ravens picked this guy, would anyone be as skeptical?

HAHAHA, all those teams run a 3-4 which people say Wolfe is better suited for. So I imagine people would have been less skeptical.

footstepsfrom#27
04-30-2012, 01:27 PM
i hope he pans out. but Cincinatti plays who again?
Point taken but Elvis played in the same conference...here's their 2011 schedule, not the SEC but better than I thought:

http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa-11/big-east/2011-cincinnati-bearcats-football-schedule.php

Included are Tennessee, NC State, Louiseville, Pitt, W. Virginia, Rutgers, Syracuse, UCON and Vandy plus a couple patsies like they al play every year. I like this kid the more I read about him and an interior pass rush was clearly the biggest need on this team, so I'm happy we got a guy who can do that as opposed to another fatass to plug the middle against the run but one who can't take pressure off Doom and Miller on passing downs.

mwill07
04-30-2012, 01:57 PM
Why was Wolfe so poorly rated amongst NFL.com? If Kiper said late 2nd round and other GM's were ready to draft in the 2nd, why was he given wone of the worst grades? What's the downside that we are all glossing over?

jhns
04-30-2012, 01:58 PM
Why was Wolfe so poorly rated amongst NFL.com? If Kiper said late 2nd round and other GM's were ready to draft in the 2nd, why was he given wone of the worst grades? What's the downside that we are all glossing over?

Lacks the athleticism of other top targets.

BroncoBeavis
04-30-2012, 02:00 PM
Why was Wolfe so poorly rated amongst NFL.com? If Kiper said late 2nd round and other GM's were ready to draft in the 2nd, why was he given wone of the worst grades? What's the downside that we are all glossing over?

Guessing NFL.com forgot the Big East existed. :)

Seriously though, he probably just fell through the cracks somehow and didn't get a legit grade on Nfl.com

Ziggy
04-30-2012, 02:27 PM
Lacks the athleticism of other top targets.

Wolfe had the best 3 cone and 20s time of all of the top DT prospects. His 40 time, bench press reps, and vertical were all comparable. How does he lack the athleticism of other top targets?

Tombstone RJ
04-30-2012, 02:36 PM
Wolfe had the best 3 cone and 20s time of all of the top DT prospects. His 40 time, bench press reps, and vertical were all comparable. How does he lack the athleticism of other top targets?

he's white, that's how.

jhns
04-30-2012, 02:37 PM
Wolfe had the best 3 cone and 20s time of all of the top DT prospects. His 40 time, bench press reps, and vertical were all comparable. How does he lack the athleticism of other top targets?

That is just what the NFL.com breakdown said on draft day. It said he was productive and good at his position, but not as strong or athletic as others.

I don't even know who Wolfe is, so I can't answer your questions.

Tombstone RJ
04-30-2012, 02:39 PM
Broncos will have three honky DTs in TC this year. Bannan, Wolfe and Ben Garland. Everyone honk your horns!!

Gcver2ver3
04-30-2012, 02:40 PM
he's white, that's how.

I honestly believe this played a part...

Everything about this guy from his measurables to his production in college to his attitude scream 1st rd talent...

Teams will regret passing this dude up.... he is a beast...

Tombstone RJ
04-30-2012, 02:41 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ZMKHDdLoqow" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

footstepsfrom#27
04-30-2012, 10:22 PM
The last time we had a DT who could really rush the passer it was Trevor Pryce, who has the same 6'5", 295 pound kind of frame Wolfe has. Every time I see these teams getting pressure up the middle without a blitz I've longed for that again. Nine sacks and 21 TF last seasonL...not to mention 70 tackles is a lot of production from him. I hope Warren makes it back all the way and stays healthy...the D-line might be improved even without Bunkley.

broncocalijohn
04-30-2012, 10:30 PM
Pass rushing DT... I take it

70 tackles and 21.5 for a loss? Seems he is a run stuffer.

RMT
04-30-2012, 10:39 PM
Broncos will have three honky DTs in TC this year. Bannan, Wolfe and Ben Garland. Everyone honk your horns!!

Interesting point ... how about calling them the Cracka Crew - or Wolfepack?

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baja
04-30-2012, 10:45 PM
The last time we had a DT who could really rush the passer it was Trevor Pryce, who has the same 6'5", 295 pound kind of frame Wolfe has. Every time I see these teams getting pressure up the middle without a blitz I've longed for that again. Nine sacks and 21 TF last seasonL...not to mention 70 tackles is a lot of production from him. I hope Warren makes it back all the way and stays healthy...the D-line might be improved even without Bunkley.

If we had signed Buckley we likely don't have Wolfe on the team.

sgbfan
04-30-2012, 10:59 PM
If we had signed Buckley we likely don't have Bannon on the team.

Fixed it for you!

Drek
05-01-2012, 05:51 AM
Wolfe had the best 3 cone and 20s time of all of the top DT prospects. His 40 time, bench press reps, and vertical were all comparable. How does he lack the athleticism of other top targets?

A lot of guys get labelled one way or the other and then it gets dispelled at the combine.

Wolfe for example was frequently labelled "unathletic" because he wasn't a big school recruit coming out of high school, played in a relatively weak conference, and exhibited good technique and motor. At that point it is really easy to write someone off as "unathletic".

Then he showed up to the combine and proved it wrong. That is when he started climbing up boards. Teams knew the fundamentals and desire were there. The production was there. But was it a hard worker taking advantage of weak competition or is he athletic enough to keep doing it in the NFL? His combine performance assured teams that he was and so he began climbing up boards. Experts who didn't adjust to that still viewed him as a mid-rounder when he just shattered the number one fear real pro personnel guys had for him.

BroncoInferno
05-01-2012, 06:02 AM
Wolfe had the best 3 cone and 20s time of all of the top DT prospects. His 40 time, bench press reps, and vertical were all comparable. How does he lack the athleticism of other top targets?

That's what baffles me. Drek has probably gotten close to the answer. He had the "unathletic" label on him pre-combine, then when he blew those notions away with combine results similar to or better than some of the top prospects, many analysts simply failed to adjust their rankings either from lack of attention to detail or stubborness.

Drek
05-01-2012, 06:37 AM
That's what baffles me. Drek has probably gotten close to the answer. He had the "unathletic" label on him pre-combine, then when he blew those notions away with combine results similar to or better than some of the top prospects, many analysts simply failed to adjust their rankings either from lack of attention to detail or stubborness.

PFT had one of their very rare good articles on this phenomenon, talking about how the draft "gurus" like Kiper, McShay, and even Mayock talk about "late risers" when they don't really exist.

Teams don't suddenly change their evaluation of a player in the final weeks before the draft. They review tape and get an idea who they want to target months in advance. The combine lets them then compare raw athleticism on a roughly equal footing. Pro days let them see the guys up close and personal going through drills. By the time the pro day for a player is done teams generally know exactly what their opinion is.

Meanwhile draft reporters get fragments of info at different stages in the process. So the "not athletic" label for Wolfe can stick because one or two scouts mention to a draft reporter that they were concerned about his athleticism pre-combine. Suddenly that label sticks when all the scout meant was that they wanted confirmation with what the tape showed and to prove it wasn't a weak conference mirage.

lolcopter
05-01-2012, 06:55 AM
70 tackles and 21.5 for a loss? Seems he is a run stuffer.

Didn't he have like 9 sacks too? That's insane for a DT

Plus all the tackles for a loss are because he is constantly in the backfield. Helluva run stuffer, but you don't get sacks without that kinda penetration either

pricejj
05-01-2012, 07:31 AM
Alfred Williams - "Do you like to stuff the run, or do you like to push guys back and rush the QB?"

Derek Wolfe - "I like to kick ass."

broncocalijohn
05-01-2012, 08:28 AM
Alfred Williams - "Do you like to stuff the run, or do you like to push guys back and rush the QB?"

Derek Wolfe - "I like to kick ass."

Sounds like he takes their lunch money too. AWESOME response to his question. I am beginning to think white guys are really cool.