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Mogulseeker
04-29-2012, 12:26 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_20506093/john-elway-2012-nfl-draft

Armchair Bronco
04-29-2012, 12:31 PM
Elways needs to start studying the 2 AFC teams that are consistently in the playoffs and Super Bowl: New England and Pittsburgh.

Both team draft smart and rarely have "head scratcher" picks. NE likes to trade down, but they do it the polar opposite way compared to Elway's 1st-round fiasco on Thursday.

Both teams regularly keep lots of their picks instead of cutting 2nd and 3rd rounders as has been the case in Denver dating back to Shannyham.

Bottom line: Elway is as clueless drafting as was Shannyham and McStalin. Some things never change. Meanwhile, NE and Pittsburg just keep pulling off one solid draft after another.

Rohirrim
04-29-2012, 12:32 PM
Sounds like Elway isn't done yet. More trades? FA pickups? I may not be comfortable, but I'm on board. Full speed ahead!

Hercules Rockefeller
04-29-2012, 12:36 PM
Elways need to start studying the 2 AFC teams that are consistently in the playoffs and Super Bowl: New England and Pittsburgh.

Both team draft smart and rarely have "head scratcher" picks. NE likes to trade down, but they do it the polar opposite way compared to Elway's 1st-round fiasco on Thursday.

Both team regularly keeps lots of their picks instead of cutting 2nd and 3rd rounders as has been the case in Denver dating back to Shannyham.

Bottom line: Elway is as clueless drafting as was Shannyham and McStalin. Some things never change. Meanwhile, NE and Pittsburg just keep pulling off one solid draft after another.

The Pats are going to look like the Colts did this year once Brady is gone. Their drafts haven't been nearly as good as people have made them out to be once these guys actually hit the field. There are some great picks in there (Gronk), but at the same time, they've got a ton of mid- to high picks that haven't been anything better than marginal players at best.

Armchair Bronco
04-29-2012, 12:37 PM
The Pats are going to look like the Colts did this year once Brady is gone. Their drafts haven't been nearly as good as people have made them out to be once these guys actually hit the field. There are some great picks in there (Gronk), but at the same time, they've got a ton of mid- to high picks that haven't been anything better than marginal players at best.

And yet NE pretty much owns the AFC spot in the Super Bowl year in and year out.

Hercules Rockefeller
04-29-2012, 12:40 PM
And yet NE pretty much owns the AFC spot in the Super Bowl year in and year out.

Because they have one of the greatest QBs of all-time, just like you could count on the Colts winning 12 games a year because they had Manning. Is anyone afraid of Welker if it's not Brady throwing him the ball? The Law Firm ain't that great either. They are who they are because of Brady, not some amazing drafting prowess that BB's had the past few seasons.

Mogulseeker
04-29-2012, 12:41 PM
Elways needs to start studying the 2 AFC teams that are consistently in the playoffs and Super Bowl: New England and Pittsburgh.

Both team draft smart and rarely have "head scratcher" picks. NE likes to trade down, but they do it the polar opposite way compared to Elway's 1st-round fiasco on Thursday.

Both team regularly keeps lots of their picks instead of cutting 2nd and 3rd rounders as has been the case in Denver dating back to Shannyham.

Bottom line: Elway is as clueless drafting as was Shannyham and McStalin. Some things never change. Meanwhile, NE and Pittsburg just keep pulling off one solid draft after another.

I disagree. New England has had a ton of head-scratcher picks that have totally panned out for them.

Look at the round value of the picks this year, for example.

McDman
04-29-2012, 12:43 PM
Because they have one of the greatest QBs of all-time, just like you could count on the Colts winning 12 games a year because they had Manning. Is anyone afraid of Welker if it's not Brady throwing him the ball? The Law Firm ain't that great either. They are who they are because of Brady, not this some amazing drafting prowess that BB's had the past few seasons.

Yep. With a mediocre QB they are an 8 win team.

Mogulseeker
04-29-2012, 12:46 PM
Yep. With a mediocre QB they are an 8 win team.

Or less... but in all fairness, they went 11-5 with Cassel in 2009.

snowspot66
04-29-2012, 01:00 PM
Or less... but in all fairness, they went 11-5 with Cassel in 2009.

After 18-1 the previous year.

cousinal11
04-29-2012, 01:00 PM
And yet NE pretty much owns the AFC spot in the Super Bowl year in and year out.

For real man, buy a jets jersey.

DBroncos4life
04-29-2012, 01:01 PM
Elways needs to start studying the 2 AFC teams that are consistently in the playoffs and Super Bowl: New England and Pittsburgh.

Both team draft smart and rarely have "head scratcher" picks. NE likes to trade down, but they do it the polar opposite way compared to Elway's 1st-round fiasco on Thursday.

Both teams regularly keep lots of their picks instead of cutting 2nd and 3rd rounders as has been the case in Denver dating back to Shannyham.

Bottom line: Elway is as clueless drafting as was Shannyham and McStalin. Some things never change. Meanwhile, NE and Pittsburg just keep pulling off one solid draft after another.

NE doesn't pick head scratchers? How about Travon Wilson in the second? You guys need to stop hyping NE.

McDman
04-29-2012, 01:07 PM
Or less... but in all fairness, they went 11-5 with Cassel in 2009.

Forgot about that. Maybe Belicheat is just that good.

Mogulseeker
04-29-2012, 01:29 PM
NE doesn't pick head scratchers? How about Travon Wilson in the third? You guys need to stop hyping NE.

Wilson went in the 2nd, actually.

Jake Bequette was a huge reach in the 3rd. I had him going to the Broncos in the 6th in my mock.

Rohirrim
04-29-2012, 01:30 PM
Because they have one of the greatest QBs of all-time, just like you could count on the Colts winning 12 games a year because they had Manning. Is anyone afraid of Welker if it's not Brady throwing him the ball? The Law Firm ain't that great either. They are who they are because of Brady, not some amazing drafting prowess that BB's had the past few seasons.

That's what I've been saying for a while now too. Let's see what kind of "genius" Belichick is when Brady retires. How many teams have hired Patriot staffers and been highly disappointed with the results?

Pony Boy
04-29-2012, 01:35 PM
Elways needs to start studying the 2 AFC teams that are consistently in the playoffs and Super Bowl: New England and Pittsburgh.

Both team draft smart and rarely have "head scratcher" picks. NE likes to trade down, but they do it the polar opposite way compared to Elway's 1st-round fiasco on Thursday.

Both teams regularly keep lots of their picks instead of cutting 2nd and 3rd rounders as has been the case in Denver dating back to Shannyham.

Bottom line: Elway is as clueless drafting as was Shannyham and McStalin. Some things never change. Meanwhile, NE and Pittsburg just keep pulling off one solid draft after another.



Humm…… It seems to me that if I was selecting a person to evaluate QB’S in the draft that I wouldn’t have a problem with John Elway being an expert on evaluating talent and identifying a possible backup for Manning and even a future replacement.

But of course I’m sure that you and the rest of the doubters will ride his ass until proven wrong as usual but feel free to tell me what makes you qualified to second guess Elway’s pick.

DBroncos4life
04-29-2012, 01:37 PM
Wilson went in the 2nd, actually.

Jake Bequette was a huge reach in the 3rd. I had him going to the Broncos in the 6th in my mock.

Opps I think I was going with their third pick. :)

Rohirrim
04-29-2012, 01:37 PM
Not to mention that the Pats getting Brady was about as "genius" a draft decision as us getting TD. In other words, complete luck. The league passed on Brady.

lonestar
04-29-2012, 01:48 PM
GM[/COLOR];3576240]Elways needs to start studying the 2 AFC teams that are consistently in the playoffs and Super Bowl: New England and Pittsburgh.

Both team draft smart and rarely have "head scratcher" picks. NE likes to trade down, but they do it the polar opposite way compared to Elway's 1st-round fiasco on Thursday.

Both teams regularly keep lots of their picks instead of cutting 2nd and 3rd rounders as has been the case in Denver dating back to Shannyham.

Bottom line: Elway is as clueless drafting as was Shannyham and McStalin. Some things never change. Meanwhile, NE and Pittsburg just keep pulling off one solid draft after another.

think your name should be ArmChair GM..

Now that said much of what you have said about the elite teams in the NFL you can add INDY and BAL to that AFC list..

Now I know that INDY stunk last year but had you taken Elway out for a year like what happened to IND I suspect we would have been drafting top Dawg also..



Now I will add that Elway has not done anything wrong with the players he selected Last year, so I will give him the benefit of doubt on these "head scratcher" pick until proven other wise..

As critical as I was of mikeys "head scratchers" and blown salary cap crap.. I'm going to wait a while before condeming this draft class.

I'm thinking that we finally have a scouting department and a VP of Ops that are not ass clowns..

SO Il give them a free ride for awhile..

 

eddie mac
04-29-2012, 01:56 PM
Wilson went in the 2nd, actually.

Jake Bequette was a huge reach in the 3rd. I had him going to the Broncos in the 6th in my mock.

Bequette was a 4th rounder on every board I've seen prior to the draft so maybe just maybe you gave Denver some value there by taking him in the 6th. Ludo and I selected him actually for the Pats in the OMane Mock in the late 4th.

ozomulsion
04-29-2012, 01:58 PM
1Elways needs to start studying the 2 AFC teams that are consistently in the playoffs and Super Bowl: New England and Pittsburgh.

Both team draft smart and rarely have "head scratcher" picks. NE likes to trade down, but they do it the polar opposite way compared to Elway's 1st-round fiasco on Thursday.

Both teams regularly keep lots of their picks instead of cutting 2nd and 3rd rounders as has been the case in Denver dating back to Shannyham.

Bottom line: Elway is as clueless drafting as was Shannyham and McStalin. Some things never change. Meanwhile, NE and Pittsburg just keep pulling off one solid draft after another.

Steelers ended up with a bunch of old players who couldn't stay healthy, and got beat by Tim Tebow in the first round of the playoffs last year. YAY, go Steelers! Let's do exactly what they do...

N.E. kept trading back last year when they needed pass rushers, and drafted running backs. Those running backs didn't do them much good when they were losing yet another S.B. last year. They got their pass rushers now. YAY, go Pats! Let's do exactly what they do...

Moreno and Hillman are not the same running back. Different skill set, and they can co-exist. He's not a replacement for Moreno.

We very possibly hit several home runs in this draft, and some of you are so upset that your favorite players didn't get picked, or just blind to what happened. Cry your lil hearts out. The people who have always known what they were talking about on here, still do. This board is full of so much crap and whining during draft week. Nothing ever changes. Any reasonable posts fall on deaf ears, anyway. I'm out.

lonestar
04-29-2012, 01:59 PM
The Pats are going to look like the Colts did this year once Brady is gone. Their drafts haven't been nearly as good as people have made them out to be once these guys actually hit the field. There are some great picks in there (Gronk), but at the same time, they've got a ton of mid- to high picks that haven't been anything better than marginal players at best.

Yet they have pretty much ruled the roost along with PIT for that past decade..

while we were going after the UBER high-priced FA and busting salary cap year after year, these guys along with BAL and IND are building their team via the draft and a few super pickups in FA that are/were not ball busters..

I used to hate the PATS, then I looked into how they buitl their team and their mind set..

I admire what Kraft did to make them CONSISTENT winners..

Lets just hope that we can once again reclaim the TOP DAWG status they took away from us..

I think everyone forgets that in almost every team they will see a year or two of top five draft picks before they climb back to glory..

AS for NE yes when brady hangs them up they will be hurting a bit jsut like we did after John retired.. but unless they fire Belicheck they will find someone to replace him. Unlike mikey who IMO was a great OC but really lousy GM and VP..

Time will tell..
 

lonestar
04-29-2012, 02:04 PM
Not to mention that the Pats getting Brady was about as "genius" a draft decision as us getting TD. In other words, complete luck. The league passed on Brady.

YEt they also had a damned fine (by their standards) QB when they took a flyer on him.. He was already a winner in NE, then they hired Belicheck then there were sparks..

Most folks do not realize that until TD had a blow up tackle on ST in Japan, he was going to call it quits when he got home..

Some times things just have to break your way..

errand
04-29-2012, 02:14 PM
Elways needs to start studying the 2 AFC teams that are consistently in the playoffs and Super Bowl: New England and Pittsburgh.

Both team draft smart and rarely have "head scratcher" picks. NE likes to trade down, but they do it the polar opposite way compared to Elway's 1st-round fiasco on Thursday.

Both teams regularly keep lots of their picks instead of cutting 2nd and 3rd rounders as has been the case in Denver dating back to Shannyham.

Bottom line: Elway is as clueless drafting as was Shannyham and McStalin. Some things never change. Meanwhile, NE and Pittsburg just keep pulling off one solid draft after another.


Are you kidding me?

Steeler fans question the drafting of Ziggy Hood when they already had Hampton ...and Patriot fans wondered WTF? when Bill selected not one but two receiving TE's in Gronkowski and Hernandez

Look we get it...you're pissed that the Broncos didn't draft the guys you had on your wish list...

I'm guessing some of you clowns will never be satisfied no matter what...

you dipsticks shouted that Bowlen's a cheap mo-fo'...so he spends a ton on a HoF QB, and you bitch and moan that he spent money.

you clowns griped that the Broncos didn't spend money on the DT position and then when they drafted one you bitch about where he was drafted...

you guys griped about needing Rb depth as knowshon moreno and lance ball suck and McGahee is old and owes everything he did in 2011 to Tebow...then they draft a kid that put up great stats and you question the competition he played against and where he too was drafted...

you clowns wanted a 3-4 year project QB that struggled to complete half his passes instead of manning, and when he got traded you still said we needed to find our QBOTF cuz Manning surely will suck after missing a year or would be one good hit from slobbering on himself in a wheelchair...and when they draft a guy to sit behind Manning you again bitch about where he was selected and question his ability to become a pretty good Qb after sitting behind Manning a couple of years.

My God! there is no pleasing any of you clowns.

errand
04-29-2012, 02:18 PM
And yet NE pretty much owns the AFC spot in the Super Bowl year in and year out.


....and it all starts with having a pretty damn good QB.

Well guess what the Broncos have that in their line-up now...just gotta get him the right supporting cast. and guys like hillman do exactly that....add in the young guys we got at WR and Manning's ability to make you or me look good catching his passes, and the fact he's been able to carry mediocre defensive teams to the playoffs for about 10 consecutive years...and I frankly don't understand the pessimism.

Bronco Boy
04-29-2012, 02:21 PM
Are you kidding me?

Steeler fans question the drafting of Ziggy Hood when they already had Hampton ...and Patriot fans wondered WTF? when Bill selected not one but two receiving TE's in Gronkowski and Hernandez

Look we get it...you're pissed that the Broncos didn't draft the guys you had on your wish list...

I'm guessing some of you clowns will never be satisfied no matter what...

you dipsticks shouted that Bowlen's a cheap mo-fo'...so he spends a ton on a HoF QB, and you b**** and moan that he spent money.

you clowns griped that the Broncos didn't spend money on the DT position and then when they drafted one you b**** about where he was drafted...

you guys griped about needing Rb depth as knowshon moreno and lance ball suck and McGahee is old and owes everything he did in 2011 to Tebow...then they draft a kid that put up great stats and you question the competition he played against and where he too was drafted...

you clowns wanted a 3-4 year project QB that struggled to complete half his passes instead of manning, and when he got traded you still said we needed to find our QBOTF cuz Manning surely will suck after missing a year or would be one good hit from slobbering on himself in a wheelchair...and when they draft a guy to sit behind Manning you again b**** about where he was selected and question his ability to become a pretty good Qb after sitting behind Manning a couple of years.

My God! there is no pleasing any of you clowns.

Stop making so much sense. We don't take kindly to your type here on the Mane.

OBF1
04-29-2012, 02:23 PM
Elways is not only reading his "Press clippings", I think he is writting them and he believes them as well.

errand
04-29-2012, 02:24 PM
Because they have one of the greatest QBs of all-time, just like you could count on the Colts winning 12 games a year because they had Manning. Is anyone afraid of Welker if it's not Brady throwing him the ball? The Law Firm ain't that great either. They are who they are because of Brady, not some amazing drafting prowess that BB's had the past few seasons.

Exactly...amazing how these clowns will come and say that McGahee was nothing until Tebow became our QB, but think that the Pats and Colts are somehow great teams if they lost Brady or Manning.

baja
04-29-2012, 02:25 PM
Are you kidding me?

Steeler fans question the drafting of Ziggy Hood when they already had Hampton ...and Patriot fans wondered WTF? when Bill selected not one but two receiving TE's in Gronkowski and Hernandez

Look we get it...you're pissed that the Broncos didn't draft the guys you had on your wish list...

I'm guessing some of you clowns will never be satisfied no matter what...

you dipsticks shouted that Bowlen's a cheap mo-fo'...so he spends a ton on a HoF QB, and you b**** and moan that he spent money.

you clowns griped that the Broncos didn't spend money on the DT position and then when they drafted one you b**** about where he was drafted...

you guys griped about needing Rb depth as knowshon moreno and lance ball suck and McGahee is old and owes everything he did in 2011 to Tebow...then they draft a kid that put up great stats and you question the competition he played against and where he too was drafted...

you clowns wanted a 3-4 year project QB that struggled to complete half his passes instead of manning, and when he got traded you still said we needed to find our QBOTF cuz Manning surely will suck after missing a year or would be one good hit from slobbering on himself in a wheelchair...and when they draft a guy to sit behind Manning you again b**** about where he was selected and question his ability to become a pretty good Qb after sitting behind Manning a couple of years.

My God! there is no pleasing any of you clowns.


LOL This may be your best post ever Errand.

CEH
04-29-2012, 02:26 PM
So you are proposing Elway draft a rugby player who played
6 snaps all last year

spdirty
04-29-2012, 02:28 PM
I wish that 2017 Elway could come back and time and run this draft...and the next one and the next one and the next one...and in 2016 then 2021 Elway could go back in time and run the 2016 draft. But he can't so we are where we are.

Hopefully the draft took care of some needs. It did take care of some positions, but if Baker can send Walton's pathetic ass out of the league, Hillman can be Sproles II, Wolfe can get that push up the middle that we need on passing downs, Osweiller can be like Rodgers in 5 years, Boldin can be a good nickleback and dynamic returner, Jackson can be a good pass rusher, and Trevathon can be like WW, then it was a great draft. We just don't know and won't know for a couple years.

DENVERDUI55
04-29-2012, 02:36 PM
Elways needs to start studying the 2 AFC teams that are consistently in the playoffs and Super Bowl: New England and Pittsburgh.

Both team draft smart and rarely have "head scratcher" picks. NE likes to trade down, but they do it the polar opposite way compared to Elway's 1st-round fiasco on Thursday.

Both teams regularly keep lots of their picks instead of cutting 2nd and 3rd rounders as has been the case in Denver dating back to Shannyham.

Bottom line: Elway is as clueless drafting as was Shannyham and McStalin. Some things never change. Meanwhile, NE and Pittsburg just keep pulling off one solid draft after another.

I'm sure everyteam does. Get a FRANCHISE QB to consistently win in this league. It's about impossible to win a SB nowdays without won. Elway knows this.

errand
04-29-2012, 02:42 PM
That's what I've been saying for a while now too. Let's see what kind of "genius" Belichick is when Brady retires. How many teams have hired Patriot staffers and been highly disappointed with the results?

Exactly...what the hell did mike ever accomplish after elway retired?

People kept claiming that mike was a genius, and that Reeves rode elway's coattails...but the bottom line is that Reeves has taken EVERY team he's coached to the playoffs and won a playoff game with those teams as well...and took another team with less talent to the SB...

what has mike done since Elway retired? He made the playoffs 4 times since 1998...and none with the Redskins..in fact he's finished in last place every year in Washington.

I appreciate mike's accomplishments in Denver, but the truth is most any coach can look like a genius when he has a great QB and decent talent....

errand
04-29-2012, 02:56 PM
Not to mention that the Pats getting Brady was about as "genius" a draft decision as us getting TD. In other words, complete luck. The league passed on Brady.


Exactly... this is what I've been talking about this entire draft...had Bill or mike spent an earlier pick on those two players, they would have been met with belly grabbing laughter by these so-called "gurus"....

Hell all the so-called experts had Travis Jervey rated higher than TD and had 7-8 other QB's rated higher than Brady (and in fairness to them TD had a so-so career at UGA, and Brady couldn't beat out Griese while at michigan)

Now if you could see into the future them having outstanding careers and winning multiple SB's and MVP awards, hindsight would prove that they were worth 1st round picks (even multiple firsts)

Let's wait until these guys have actually played a year or two in the league before we castrate Elway over selecting them....like i said the OM ain't going anywhere...you can bump your "elway sucks" threads in 2-3 years if these guys stink the place up and let us all know what kind of geniuses you are.

errand
04-29-2012, 03:01 PM
LOL This may be your best post ever Errand.

I beg to differ, but thanks anyways...:)

lonestar
04-29-2012, 03:04 PM
Exactly... this is what I've been talking about this entire draft...had Bill or mike spent an earlier pick on those two players, they would have been met with belly grabbing laughter by these so-called "gurus"....

Hell all the so-called experts had Travis Jervey rated hire than TD and had 7-8 other QB's rated higher than Brady (and in fairness to them TD had a so-so career at UGA, and Brady couldn't beat out Griese while at michigan)

Now if you could see into the future them having outstanding careers and winning multiple SB's and MVP awards, hindsight would prove that they were worth 1st round picks (even multiple firsts)

Let's wait until these guys have actually played a year or two in the league before we castrate Elway over selecting them....like i said the OM ain't going anywhere...you can bump your "elway sucks" threads in 2-3 years if these guys stink the place up and let us all know what kind of geniuses you are.



As I said I believed in mikey until he DAFTED lelie, then I started seeing him for what he was and moron when it came to personnel decisions..


I may come to the same conclusion down the road,, but for now I can see the logic used..

the longer that scouting staff, GM, HC and position coaches are in place the more refined we get in "scoping" out the players..

lonestar
04-29-2012, 03:09 PM
Are you kidding me?

Steeler fans question the drafting of Ziggy Hood when they already had Hampton ...and Patriot fans wondered WTF? when Bill selected not one but two receiving TE's in Gronkowski and Hernandez

Look we get it...you're pissed that the Broncos didn't draft the guys you had on your wish list...

I'm guessing some of you clowns will never be satisfied no matter what...

you dipsticks shouted that Bowlen's a cheap mo-fo'...so he spends a ton on a HoF QB, and you b**** and moan that he spent money.

you clowns griped that the Broncos didn't spend money on the DT position and then when they drafted one you b**** about where he was drafted...

you guys griped about needing Rb depth as knowshon moreno and lance ball suck and McGahee is old and owes everything he did in 2011 to Tebow...then they draft a kid that put up great stats and you question the competition he played against and where he too was drafted...

you clowns wanted a 3-4 year project QB that struggled to complete half his passes instead of manning, and when he got traded you still said we needed to find our QBOTF cuz Manning surely will suck after missing a year or would be one good hit from slobbering on himself in a wheelchair...and when they draft a guy to sit behind Manning you again b**** about where he was selected and question his ability to become a pretty good Qb after sitting behind Manning a couple of years.

My God! there is no pleasing any of you clowns.


Great post..

deserved to be seen again..

I'm willing to give them some time before geting the tar and feathers out..

I like what I hear about them..If they play to that potential then we will be sitting in tall cotton..

pricejj
04-29-2012, 03:11 PM
Elways needs to start studying the 2 AFC teams that are consistently in the playoffs and Super Bowl: New England and Pittsburgh.

Both team draft smart and rarely have "head scratcher" picks. NE likes to trade down, but they do it the polar opposite way compared to Elway's 1st-round fiasco on Thursday.

Both teams regularly keep lots of their picks instead of cutting 2nd and 3rd rounders as has been the case in Denver dating back to Shannyham.

Bottom line: Elway is as clueless drafting as was Shannyham and McStalin. Some things never change. Meanwhile, NE and Pittsburg just keep pulling off one solid draft after another.

Your post is an epic fail.

1. Belicheat had two 1st round picks and spent them on 2nd round talent (Jones has 10 total college sacks, Hightower may be good). NE will no longer have two 1st round draft picks every single draft.
2. After drafting countless DB's in rounds 1 and 2 over the last several drafts, he did an epic reach with Wilson, in the 2nd...only to probably discard him in 1 year when he doesn't perform up to "standard" (much like McDaniels did with Alphonso Smith).
3. The Patiots continuously get gifted cheap FA's (Randy Moss, Brandon Lloyd, Andre Carter, Brian Waters, Wes Welker) and haven't won the SuperBowl in 7 years.
4. NE's Defense was one of the worst in the league last year, starting UDFA's, and WR's in the Defensive backfield.
5. NE's widely known cheating, special Brady-rules, and ultra-weak conference garner them home-field adavntage in the playoffs almost every year. Before beating us last year, they hadn't won a playoff game in 4 years.
6. NE, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore all coveted Derek Wolfe. NE decided to go with Chandler Jones (which I think was a mistake), Pittsburgh couldn't pass on Decastro (can't blame them). Baltimore would have drafted Wolfe, had Upshaw not dropped to #35 overall. They chose Upshaw over Wolfe (which I think was a mistake).

Please rent a clue before you make asinine posts disparaging the Broncos. I believe that this draft could not have gone better than it did...Elway is correct.

Victor
04-29-2012, 03:18 PM
Elways needs to start studying the 2 AFC teams that are consistently in the playoffs and Super Bowl: New England and Pittsburgh.

Both team draft smart and rarely have "head scratcher" picks. NE likes to trade down, but they do it the polar opposite way compared to Elway's 1st-round fiasco on Thursday.

Both teams regularly keep lots of their picks instead of cutting 2nd and 3rd rounders as has been the case in Denver dating back to Shannyham.

Bottom line: Elway is as clueless drafting as was Shannyham and McStalin. Some things never change. Meanwhile, NE and Pittsburg just keep pulling off one solid draft after another.

You mean the same Pittsburg team that the Broncos beat in the playoffs, right...that Pittsburg team? What a whinny biotch.

Jason7730
04-29-2012, 03:41 PM
They drafted Chad Jackson too, and that didn't turn out well....

pricejj
04-29-2012, 03:51 PM
The latest Belicheat reach...my analysis.

Chandler Jones - 6'045", 266 lbs. 487 forty...only 10 career college sacks. Jones depended on his long arms 36" to bull-rush Offensive Lineman in the Big East. Jones did not display many pass rushing moves, and has only adequate speed on the edge in a 3-4. At 266 lbs., I think he will have to put on an additional 20 lbs. to be effective as an edge setter, which will slow him down even further. His arm length will be neutralized with NFL OT's (Clady has a 36 3/4" reach, Orlando Franklin 35"). He is versatile, which is a bonus, but Belicheat reached on him thinking he is another JPP.

Baltimore's pick...

Courtney Upshaw - 6'014", 272 lbs. 4.74 forty...only 22 bench reps with 31 1/2" arm length...Upshaw displays a wide array of pass rush moves to effectively get to the QB, despite his short arms. The question is, is that going to be enough in the NFL with superior RT's? How will his skillset translate to the pass happy NFL?

RaiderH8r
04-29-2012, 05:07 PM
Yep. With a mediocre QB they are an 8 win team.

Matt Cassell disagrees.

Lestat
04-29-2012, 05:17 PM
Elways needs to start studying the 2 AFC teams that are consistently in the playoffs and Super Bowl: New England and Pittsburgh.

Both team draft smart and rarely have "head scratcher" picks. NE likes to trade down, but they do it the polar opposite way compared to Elway's 1st-round fiasco on Thursday.

Both teams regularly keep lots of their picks instead of cutting 2nd and 3rd rounders as has been the case in Denver dating back to Shannyham.

Bottom line: Elway is as clueless drafting as was Shannyham and McStalin. Some things never change. Meanwhile, NE and Pittsburg just keep pulling off one solid draft after another.

don't know if you've noticed but the Pats have severe talent deficiences on their roster and while they have gotten to the super bowl they haven't been able to win them since spy gate and a large part of that is due in large part to their defense sucking ass.

Elway needs to build the team as best he can and not worry about the fans or media critics. if his picks fail then we can question him to infinity but so far he's taken us from 4-12 picking #2 to 8-8 with a severely upgraded roster that can now compete for a championship but is in need of more work.

Mogulseeker
04-29-2012, 05:23 PM
Your post is an epic fail.

1. Belicheat had two 1st round picks and spent them on 2nd round talent (Jones has 10 total college sacks, Hightower may be good). NE will no longer have two 1st round draft picks every single draft.
2. After drafting countless DB's in rounds 1 and 2 over the last several drafts, he did an epic reach with Wilson, in the 2nd...only to probably discard him in 1 year when he doesn't perform up to "standard" (much like McDaniels did with Alphonso Smith).
3. The Patiots continuously get gifted cheap FA's (Randy Moss, Brandon Lloyd, Andre Carter, Brian Waters, Wes Welker) and haven't won the SuperBowl in 7 years.
4. NE's Defense was one of the worst in the league last year, starting UDFA's, and WR's in the Defensive backfield.
5. NE's widely known cheating, special Brady-rules, and ultra-weak conference garner them home-field adavntage in the playoffs almost every year. Before beating us last year, they hadn't won a playoff game in 4 years.
6. NE, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore all coveted Derek Wolfe. NE decided to go with Chandler Jones (which I think was a mistake), Pittsburgh couldn't pass on Decastro (can't blame them). Baltimore would have drafted Wolfe, had Upshaw not dropped to #35 overall. They chose Upshaw over Wolfe (which I think was a mistake).

Please rent a clue before you make asinine posts disparaging the Broncos. I believe that this draft could not have gone better than it did...Elway is correct.

I'm not saying your post is wrong... but, how would anyone know that NE, PITT, or Balt coveted Wolfe?

R8R H8R
04-29-2012, 09:07 PM
Yep. With a mediocre QB they are an 8 win team.

You are being generous. With that defense they had last year, they win 4 games max.

Drunken.Broncoholic
04-29-2012, 09:15 PM
Maroney was a genius pick. Look at their drafts over the last 7 years. Lots of misses. The pats are overrated now. They aren't the same as the mid 2000s. They couldnt even beat a team with a winning record this year until lee Evans dropped the ball. They take advantage of weak schedules every year.

Tom_Foolery
04-29-2012, 09:16 PM
NE doesn't pick head scratchers? How about Travon Wilson in the second? You guys need to stop hyping NE.

Thank you! What the ed was that? I'm so sick of heaing about them.

Tom_Foolery
04-29-2012, 09:20 PM
Or less... but in all fairness, they went 11-5 with Cassel in 2009.

They were stacked in 2009. Not the same team today.

pricejj
04-30-2012, 03:03 AM
I'm not saying your post is wrong... but, how would anyone know that NE, PITT, or Balt coveted Wolfe?

I know that he worked out with both NE and Pittsburgh...he said himself that he he was being contacted continuously by Baltimore, and that he expected to be picked by them at #35. Fortunately for us, Upshaw fell, and Baltimore decided to bite...the rest is history. I've stated previously, that there is no way he would have fell past NE's pick at #48. It turns out, we are lucky he made it to #36.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/Derek-Wolfe-Press-Conference/9c2496ac-38bc-4c55-a636-1cad5a3d4f29

Rohirrim
04-30-2012, 04:38 AM
I know that he worked out with both NE and Pittsburgh...he said himself that he he was being contacted continuously by Baltimore, and that he expected to be picked by them at #35. Fortunately for us, Upshaw fell, and Baltimore decided to bite...the rest is history. I've stated previously, that there is no way he would have fell past NE's pick at #48. It turns out, we are lucky he made it to #36.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/Derek-Wolfe-Press-Conference/9c2496ac-38bc-4c55-a636-1cad5a3d4f29

"I can play the 3 tech and I can play it well." Wolfe is going to be a good one. Even with the press he has that chip on his shoulder. This guy's number one focus is football. I'm telling ya, this guy is a steal. Offensive linemen are not going to like this guy. ;D

Agamemnon
04-30-2012, 05:33 AM
Please rent a clue before you make asinine posts disparaging the Broncos. I believe that this draft could not have gone better than it did...Elway is correct.

Hilarious!

BroncoBeavis
04-30-2012, 05:42 AM
I know that he worked out with both NE and Pittsburgh...he said himself that he he was being contacted continuously by Baltimore, and that he expected to be picked by them at #35. Fortunately for us, Upshaw fell, and Baltimore decided to bite...the rest is history. I've stated previously, that there is no way he would have fell past NE's pick at #48. It turns out, we are lucky he made it to #36.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/Derek-Wolfe-Press-Conference/9c2496ac-38bc-4c55-a636-1cad5a3d4f29

So the question remains... if we were sold on the guy why did we trade out of 31 instead of taking him.

CEH
04-30-2012, 05:54 AM
Denver got too cute in the draft. The got hosed in the trade down to #31 and was targeting a RB at #31. They gambled the RB would be there at #36 and lost. So yes the draft could have gone better. They could have gotten the RB who I believe was David WIlson at #31. I say Wilson based on who they selected in a trade up in the 3rd and the smokescreens they sent out to the local media

pricejj
04-30-2012, 06:27 AM
So the question remains... if we were sold on the guy why did we trade out of 31 instead of taking him.

I think the original plan was to see what fell to #25, and make a decision. I believe there were a few players that they were monitoring to see if they fell out of the top 25 (probably Poe, Brockers, and Kirkpatrick), who I'm glad didn't fall. Once NE traded up to #22 to pick Chandler Jones, and Pittsburgh picked David Decastro at #24, it seems the Broncos felt that there would be no danger trading down to #31 to pick Wolfe. Then to increase the value of their 4th round pick, they traded back down again assuming that since neither NE nor Pittsburgh picked Wolfe in the 1st, that they would be safe at #36. I am pretty sure they had no clue that Baltimore was planning on picking him at #36. It is obvious from the videos on denverbroncos.com, that Wolfe was their guy going into the 2nd day (at #36). They got lucky that Upshaw fell.

pricejj
04-30-2012, 06:34 AM
"I can play the 3 tech and I can play it well." Wolfe is going to be a good one. Even with the press he has that chip on his shoulder. This guy's number one focus is football. I'm telling ya, this guy is a steal. Offensive linemen are not going to like this guy. ;D

Yep. Wolfe is exactly what we needed. A dominant 3-tech, who is going to light a fire under everybody on the DL. No more "dymelyfe" wannabe underperforming crackheads. The Orange Crush is back...

footstepsfrom#27
04-30-2012, 06:51 AM
Humm…… It seems to me that if I was selecting a person to evaluate QB’S in the draft that I wouldn’t have a problem with John Elway being an expert on evaluating talent and identifying a possible backup for Manning and even a future replacement.

But of course I’m sure that you and the rest of the doubters will ride his ass until proven wrong as usual but feel free to tell me what makes you qualified to second guess Elway’s pick.
I'm not convinced by a long shot that Elway is qualfied for this job yet, but I'll give you this one. I do think the guy surely knows what he's looking for when watching a QB. Given that his kid knows Osweiler I'm pretty sure he's been able to get as much info on him as possible, and it's not like the guy wasn't highly rated. I think the main reason for dissing the pick is that we feel like they should be focused on putting talent around Manning in the 2nd round, but if you take a look from a little different perspective and imagine Manning having been here all along, nobody would dispute that taking a highly rated QB in the round he's projected to go in to sit behind a 36 year old starter for a couple years or so is bad idea. I have to think going into the draft they knew they'd be targeting this guy and knowing that I imagine Manning had some input on this as well...why wouldnt' he?

It's impossible to judge any draft for at least a couple years so all the talk at this point is pointless till we see these guys in pads and see what they can do. Nobody knows who really had a good or bad draft at this point.

footstepsfrom#27
04-30-2012, 06:55 AM
I think the original plan was to see what fell to #25, and make a decision. I believe there were a few players that they were monitoring to see if they fell out of the top 25 (probably Poe, Brockers, and Kirkpatrick), who I'm glad didn't fall. Once NE traded up to #22 to pick Chandler Jones, and Pittsburgh picked David Decastro at #24, it seems the Broncos felt that there would be no danger trading down to #31 to pick Wolfe. Then to increase the value of their 4th round pick, they traded back down again assuming that since neither NE nor Pittsburgh picked Wolfe in the 1st, that they would be safe at #36. I am pretty sure they had no clue that Baltimore was planning on picking him at #36. It is obvious from the videos on denverbroncos.com, that Wolfe was their guy going into the 2nd day (at #36). They got lucky that Upshaw fell.
Wolfe had 9 sacks last year, alot for a DT if that's where he lined up most of the time. In other news, Kiper likes him, though I'm not sure if that makes me happy or not. If he can provide inside pass rush ability he's just what they need.

Agamemnon
04-30-2012, 07:01 AM
I have to think going into the draft they knew they'd be targeting this guy and knowing that I imagine Manning had some input on this as well...why wouldnt' he?

Are you saying Manning would be supportive of using a 2nd round pick on a player who will never actually help him win another Super Bowl before he retires? I can't comprehend how that could be true.

BroncoBeavis
04-30-2012, 07:01 AM
Wolfe had 9 sacks last year, alot for a DT if that's where he lined up most of the time. In other news, Kiper likes him, though I'm not sure if that makes me happy or not. If he can provide inside pass rush ability he's just what they need.

I'm more worried about having an anchor in there than a pass rusher. Von and Doom will rain sacks if there's someone clogging up the middle. If he's just another guy trying to stunt his way to the QB, it's going to be a long year.

BroncoBeavis
04-30-2012, 07:03 AM
I do think the guy surely knows what he's looking for when watching a QB. Given that his kid knows Osweiler I'm pretty sure he's been able to get as much info on him as possible, and it's not like the guy wasn't highly rated.

Though to be fair, how many drinkin' buddies could little Jack have? :)

Agamemnon
04-30-2012, 07:04 AM
I'm more worried about having an anchor in there than a pass rusher. Von and Doom will rain sacks if there's someone clogging up the middle. If he's just another guy trying to stunt his way to the QB, it's going to be a long year.

If you hadn't noticed, the Broncos appear to be focusing on pass D while not really doing anything to address the run D. I'm guessing they think they will be able to score enough points to force teams to pass to keep up, and they better be right, or, as you say, it's going to be a long year.

TonyR
04-30-2012, 07:05 AM
I'm more worried about having an anchor in there than a pass rusher. Von and Doom will rain sacks if there's someone clogging up the middle. If he's just another guy trying to stunt his way to the QB, it's going to be a long year.

When the Broncos' only two draft picks on the defensive line are a 3-tech penetrator (Derek Wolfe) and a tweener DE/DT hybrid (Malik Jackson), you know the last thing the Broncos are going to do is to try and play two-gap football. Jack Del Rio's days of two-gapping with the likes of Marcus Stroud and Big John Henderson are a thing of the past. Those kinds of players are rare in this league anymore, and the last time I checked, Vince Wilfork plays for the Patriots. Even if Wolfe and Jackson were to only play on passing downs, there are serious doubts that an aging Ty Warren (who in his prime could play two-gap football) and Justin Bannan would be effective two gappers on running downs. Look for the Broncos, as we have speculated for over a month, to employ the NFL standard formula of a 4-3 NT and a 3-tech undertackle.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/five-things-we-learned-from-the-broncos-2012-draft

Beantown Bronco
04-30-2012, 07:05 AM
I'm more worried about having an anchor in there than a pass rusher. Von and Doom will rain sacks if there's someone clogging up the middle.

Not true. We had them last year and didn't generate any rush against the top QBs when we needed it most. Why? Because those QBs knew that all they had to do was step up in the pocket, while their tackles pushed our DEs and rush LBs wide. What we need most is pass rush from up the middle so those QBs cannot simply step up in the pocket like they have against us for years. Cloggers are great on obvious rush downs. But in passing situations, you need rush from the ends AND up the middle, or you get torched......like we have for years.

Drek
04-30-2012, 07:11 AM
tweener DE/DT hybrid (Malik Jackson)

Malik Jackson supposedly weighed 290 pounds for his pro day and definitely weighed 284 at the combine. Might not be much of a "tweener" if he keeps that kind of weight on.

With Ayers being stout against the run I think we could legitimately get away with a Wolfe/Jackson DT pair on non-obvious rushing downs if they can each play near to 300 pounds. Both are just shy of 6'5", so they've each got the frame for it.

It'd be an interesting approach to the DL, as the real big boys always get gassed and see their snap counts reduced as a result. If we can have three 280-300 pounders at three of the four DL spots, then put 240-250 pound linebackers at all three spots behind them we could still have good enough size to handle the run.

BroncoBeavis
04-30-2012, 07:17 AM
I think the original plan was to see what fell to #25, and make a decision. I believe there were a few players that they were monitoring to see if they fell out of the top 25 (probably Poe, Brockers, and Kirkpatrick), who I'm glad didn't fall. Once NE traded up to #22 to pick Chandler Jones, and Pittsburgh picked David Decastro at #24, it seems the Broncos felt that there would be no danger trading down to #31 to pick Wolfe. Then to increase the value of their 4th round pick, they traded back down again assuming that since neither NE nor Pittsburgh picked Wolfe in the 1st, that they would be safe at #36. I am pretty sure they had no clue that Baltimore was planning on picking him at #36. It is obvious from the videos on denverbroncos.com, that Wolfe was their guy going into the 2nd day (at #36). They got lucky that Upshaw fell.

None of that sounds like a draft that "Couldn't have gone better" though. Lots of things could've gone their way that didn't. And think of it this way... using the Oz pick as ammunition instead of a CYA pick, they could've made moves for who they really wanted instead of waiting to see who fell. In fact they probably could have leveraged that pick to get Decastro and still managed to pick up Wolfe and Oz (why?) later on if they made it a priority.

Look at the AFC powerhouses... NE finds the guys they want and they make it happen. Baltimore sits back, but gets exceptional value for their patience. We got an undersized Big East (is that a BCS conference? :)) DT and a guy we hope doesn't contribute a thing for 3 years.

BroncoBeavis
04-30-2012, 07:25 AM
Not true. We had them last year and didn't generate any rush against the top QBs when we needed it most. Why? Because those QBs knew that all they had to do was step up in the pocket, while their tackles pushed our DEs and rush LBs wide. What we need most is pass rush from up the middle so those QBs cannot simply step up in the pocket like they have against us for years. Cloggers are great on obvious rush downs. But in passing situations, you need rush from the ends AND up the middle, or you get torched......like we have for years.

I think you'll see, especially when we were getting owned in the air, that our DT's did a pretty ****ty job of pushing the pocket into the backfield (or even holding the line) We need bulls that can push the OL into the QB's throat. I see Wolfe as a guy who might excel at getting around blockers more than driving them anywhere. Especially at the NFL level.

The way I see it, having a front 4 focused on swimming their way to the QB leaves the middle very vulnerable.

Agamemnon
04-30-2012, 07:34 AM
When the Broncos' only two draft picks on the defensive line are a 3-tech penetrator (Derek Wolfe) and a tweener DE/DT hybrid (Malik Jackson), you know the last thing the Broncos are going to do is to try and play two-gap football. Jack Del Rio's days of two-gapping with the likes of Marcus Stroud and Big John Henderson are a thing of the past. Those kinds of players are rare in this league anymore, and the last time I checked, Vince Wilfork plays for the Patriots. Even if Wolfe and Jackson were to only play on passing downs, there are serious doubts that an aging Ty Warren (who in his prime could play two-gap football) and Justin Bannan would be effective two gappers on running downs. Look for the Broncos, as we have speculated for over a month, to employ the NFL standard formula of a 4-3 NT and a 3-tech undertackle.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/five-things-we-learned-from-the-broncos-2012-draft

Unfortunately, we have garbage for NT's since we let Bunkley walk.

BroncoBeavis
04-30-2012, 07:42 AM
Unfortunately, we have garbage for NT's since we let Bunkley walk.

I think Tony's right as far as what the team's strategy is going to be. I just don't see the shootout strategy winning Super Bowls. Especially when we're practically begging power teams to ground and pound us.

It doesn't take a genius to see that Peyton is rarely blowing teams out in the Playoffs. His Colts have routinely gotten pushed around come January, and I have a hard time cheering for that to be rebuilt in Denver.

colonelbeef
04-30-2012, 07:47 AM
Elways needs to start studying the 2 AFC teams that are consistently in the playoffs and Super Bowl: New England and Pittsburgh.

Both team draft smart and rarely have "head scratcher" picks. NE likes to trade down, but they do it the polar opposite way compared to Elway's 1st-round fiasco on Thursday.

Both teams regularly keep lots of their picks instead of cutting 2nd and 3rd rounders as has been the case in Denver dating back to Shannyham.

Bottom line: Elway is as clueless drafting as was Shannyham and McStalin. Some things never change. Meanwhile, NE and Pittsburg just keep pulling off one solid draft after another.

100% incorrect.

New England hasn't had a good draft in 5 years. Those teams are always in the mix because they both have great QBs, period.

Agamemnon
04-30-2012, 07:47 AM
I think Tony's right as far as what the team's strategy is going to be. I just don't see the shootout strategy winning Super Bowls. Especially when we're practically begging power teams to ground and pound us.

It doesn't take a genius to see that Peyton is rarely blowing teams out in the Playoffs. His Colts have routinely gotten pushed around come January, and I have a hard time cheering for that to be rebuilt in Denver.

I have a hard time seeing John Fox embracing that type of football. Honestly the Manning/Fox combination just feels weird to me. I'm curious to see how it looks in reality. Seems like they are trying to mix oil and water to me.

CEH
04-30-2012, 07:50 AM
I think Tony's right as far as what the team's strategy is going to be. I just don't see the shootout strategy winning Super Bowls. Especially when we're practically begging power teams to ground and pound us.

It doesn't take a genius to see that Peyton is rarely blowing teams out in the Playoffs. His Colts have routinely gotten pushed around come January, and I have a hard time cheering for that to be rebuilt in Denver.

We finally agree on something. If you look at the Indy playoff losses it was not a defensive issue. Their offense failed to live up to the season averages several time scoring like 3-14 points

Agamemnon
04-30-2012, 08:02 AM
We finally agree on something. If you look at the Indy playoff losses it was not a defensive issue. Their offense failed to live up to the season averages several time scoring like 3-14 points

That's the main reason I'm not as excited about Manning as everyone else. Dude has always fed on a weak division in the regular season and collapsed against playoff-caliber defenses. I've always thought Manning was overrated, so him being a Bronco now that he is past his prime just makes me go "meh".

ColoradoDarin
04-30-2012, 08:22 AM
Having not read the fluff article, let me comment thus:

1. What else was Elway going to say.

and

2. Elway has really gotten the "LIELIELIE!" part of the job down pat.

hambone13
04-30-2012, 08:35 AM
That's the main reason I'm not as excited about Manning as everyone else. Dude has always fed on a weak division in the regular season and collapsed against playoff-caliber defenses. I've always thought Manning was overrated, so him being a Bronco now that he is past his prime just makes me go "meh".

I think there's some validity to your point but Pitt and NE are major market teams with great QB's. Pitt more so than NE has always thrived on defense and always drafts accordingly. The only reason that NE has been in the mix in the last decade-ish is because of Brady. We're fortunate enough to have had success over the years in at least getting to Super Bowls but that was almost entirely based on having a great QB. The common denominator, QB. As much as we hate to admit it, Raplesberger is a great QB. He's not flashy but he is sound and damn effective. So here we have one of the greatest QB's of all time, in a town that is Super Bowl savvy. It doesn't mean we're going straight to the show but we have increased our chances, significantly. The whole team can go to sleep at night knowing that there is less of a question and actually believe it's possible. That sounds like a ton of fun to watch and cheer for. You can arm chair GM all you want and negative-Nancy your way to a heart attack but it's pretty cool to have the circumstances that we do.

baja
04-30-2012, 08:36 AM
I have a hard time seeing John Fox embracing that type of football. Honestly the Manning/Fox combination just feels weird to me. I'm curious to see how it looks in reality. Seems like they are trying to mix oil and water to me.

Fox went with a high school offense to accommodate Tebow's skill set and you don't think he can accommodate Peyton Manning?

hambone13
04-30-2012, 08:38 AM
Fox went with a high school offense to accommodate Tebow's skill set and you don't think he can accommodate Peyton Manning?

He probably has a hard time taking a **** with out bitching about it. Meanwhile, the rest of us are high fiving about the beauty in the simplicity that is a euphoric poop.

Lestat
04-30-2012, 09:00 AM
So the question remains... if we were sold on the guy why did we trade out of 31 instead of taking him.

because you take them where value says you take them and not before then unless it's a potential franchise QB. successful franchises have always worked that way. you let the draft come to you and if you have to or see enough value in it, you move around the draft to get the most bang for your buck.

if your top guy goes off the board and you're sold on the next guy but you feel the first round is taking him too high then you trade back and put yourself in a position to get him later where his value expands.

you save money, you gain higher draft value and you still get your guy. if it shock down right more than likely we take DeCastro #25, use some picks to deal up for a top 40 2nd and take Wolfe and then still have #57 to take Osweiler. of course then we don't have the pick ammo to take Hillman, and likely don't have the pick to take Jackson.

Agamemnon
04-30-2012, 09:09 AM
Fox went with a high school offense to accommodate Tebow's skill set and you don't think he can accommodate Peyton Manning?

Fox never accommodated anything but Tebow's running ability (while running a passing scheme that actually undermined Tebow's strengths in the passing game). And the two situations are completely different any way. It's about philosophy differences, not what he can or can't do. What he did with Tebow is something he was documented to have thought about well before Tebow, and was ridiculously run heavy which is what he prefers.

I'm just curious to see if Manning's tendency to pass every down and Fox's tendency to run a lot and try to control the clock will mesh. I certainly don't see it as a certainty.

BroncoBeavis
04-30-2012, 09:13 AM
if your top guy goes off the board and you're sold on the next guy but you feel the first round is taking him too high then you trade back and put yourself in a position to get him later where his value expands.

What this says though is that they weren't all that sold on Wolfe. And that they were willing to gamble getting him for slightly improved standing in the 4th round (where all-stars are rarely found)

From what I'm reading here though, we're lucky the Ravens DIDN'T take him. In which case these same guys would be trying to tell us that it was some other dude EFX was 100% sold on.

In the end it's all just bull****. They got who they got, but there's no rational pretending that everyone they ended up with was exactly who they wanted.

peacepipe
04-30-2012, 09:19 AM
Fox never accommodated anything but Tebow's running ability (while running a passing scheme that actually undermined Tebow's strengths in the passing game). And the two situations are completely different any way. It's about philosophy differences, not what he can or can't do. What he did with Tebow is something he was documented to have thought about well before Tebow, and was ridiculously run heavy which is what he prefers.

I'm just curious to see if Manning's tendency to pass every down and Fox's tendency to run a lot and try to control the clock will mesh. I certainly don't see it as a certainty.BS,you're just pissed off that even when fox/mccoy change the entire offense to ACCOMMODATE tebow it still couldn't hide the fact that tebow couldn't play QB. he was ridicously run heavy because his QB,TIM TEBOW,couldn't throw the damn ball.
jake delhomme,who isn't a great QB,threw the ball quite abit when fox was his coach. you want to know why? he could throw the ball.

Agamemnon
04-30-2012, 09:20 AM
In the end it's all just bull****. They got who they got, but there's no rational pretending that everyone they ended up with was exactly who they wanted.

I think you don't understand. Most of the people on the OM enjoy the taste of bull**** as long as Elway is the one feeding it to them.

houghtam
04-30-2012, 09:27 AM
4 pages on Elway saying the draft couldn't have gone better.

What next?

10 pages on him saying this team is going to bring intensity?

15 pages on him saying their goal is to win the Superbowl?

Did anyone really expect him to say that he felt like they overreached and had some questionable picks considering the holes on this team? This just in: water is wet. Take it for what it's worth.

Broncos4tw
04-30-2012, 09:33 AM
Fox never accommodated anything but Tebow's running ability (while running a passing scheme that actually undermined Tebow's strengths in the passing game).

You actually believe that? Hilarious!

Fox was forced to swallow his pride and institute a college-like offense simply so Tebow COULD generate offense. You are delusional if you think Tebow could in any way run a standard QB run offense. Guess you'll see once he plays for the Jets, and the same thing happens. I'm sure you'll blame their coach for handcuffing Tebow as well, instead of realizing what is obvious to everyone else - Tebow doesn't have a lot of Pro QB talent.

pricejj
04-30-2012, 09:38 AM
None of that sounds like a draft that "Couldn't have gone better" though. Lots of things could've gone their way that didn't. And think of it this way... using the Oz pick as ammunition instead of a CYA pick, they could've made moves for who they really wanted instead of waiting to see who fell. In fact they probably could have leveraged that pick to get Decastro and still managed to pick up Wolfe and Oz (why?) later on if they made it a priority.

Look at the AFC powerhouses... NE finds the guys they want and they make it happen. Baltimore sits back, but gets exceptional value for their patience. We got an undersized Big East (is that a BCS conference? :)) DT and a guy we hope doesn't contribute a thing for 3 years.

Wolfe is the perfect size for UT (6'5" 300 lbs.)...and is taller in stature than any of the other UT's in the draft, he has the frame to put on another 20 lbs., but that would be stupid. He needs to use his athleticism to constantly haunt the QB. Wolfe is not an NT (like Poe, possibly Brockers if he can't pass rush).

I would have rather had Weeden, but Osweiler was the next best option. You would have been comfortable going into the season with Hanie as backup QB? Not a good idea...Hanie cost the Bears a playoff position last year.

Pead was picked at #55, so we wouldn't have gotten him at #57 anyway. The next best RB was Ronnie Hillman (who we picked). The best you could have hoped for at #57 is Josh Robinson (CB). We had to sacrifice that pick to upgrade QB, but still picked up a high quality player in Omar Bolden (CB) in the 4th.

Lavonte David (WOLB) was not an option at #57, unless you really want to cut D.J. Williams, which is a very, very bad idea.

So yeah, the draft went about as well as it could have, save for Weeden dropping to the 57th pick (which obviously didn't happen).

ColoradoDarin
04-30-2012, 09:41 AM
You actually believe that? Hilarious!

Fox was forced to swallow his pride and institute a college-like offense simply so Tebow COULD generate offense. You are delusional if you think Tebow could in any way run a standard QB run offense. Guess you'll see once he plays for the Jets, and the same thing happens. I'm sure you'll blame their coach for handcuffing Tebow as well, instead of realizing what is obvious to everyone else - Tebow doesn't have a lot of Pro QB talent.

But not all colleges run the same offense. We implemented the Georgia Tech offense and not the UF offense that Tebow ran in his Gainesville days. You'd think it would have been easier to do the latter since Tebow had to adjust to it as well. Putting in a few zone-read options wasn't the answer.

socalorado
04-30-2012, 09:42 AM
But not all colleges run the same offense. We implemented the Georgia Tech offense and not the UF offense that Tebow ran in his Gainesville days. You'd think it would have been easier to do the latter since Tebow had to adjust to it as well. Putting in a few zone-read options wasn't the answer.

Tebow wasnt the answer.

ColoradoDarin
04-30-2012, 09:44 AM
Tebow wasnt the answer.

That's a different question.

baja
04-30-2012, 09:44 AM
Fox never accommodated anything but Tebow's running ability (while running a passing scheme that actually undermined Tebow's strengths in the passing game). And the two situations are completely different any way. It's about philosophy differences, not what he can or can't do. What he did with Tebow is something he was documented to have thought about well before Tebow, and was ridiculously run heavy which is what he prefers.

I'm just curious to see if Manning's tendency to pass every down and Fox's tendency to run a lot and try to control the clock will mesh. I certainly don't see it as a certainty.

All I can say is I am glad I don't live in your negative and erroneous thinking world. I actually enjoy the transformation the Broncos are enjoying. I see the wisdom in most of the moves we are making.

Could TT become an amazing Qb in the NFL? Sure he could but he is a long way off.

BroncoBeavis
04-30-2012, 09:56 AM
Hey, I hope I'm wrong on Wolfe. Yeah, he's 300 now. But he played at 286. Adding just weight to a guy who succeeded in a small-ball college division isn't always a recipe for success. But hopefully he can add the bulk and keep the athleticism. I said going into day 2, I'd be fine with whatever their evaluations in positions of need so long as they didn't go full retard and pick Brock. Unfortunately, they went retard, so I can't say much on behalf of their judgement.

I would have rather had Weeden, but Osweiler was the next best option. You would have been comfortable going into the season with Hanie as backup QB? Not a good idea...Hanie cost the Bears a playoff position last year.

To be honest with you I don't give a **** who the backup QB is at this point. If we fall to a backup, we're f'd. We're chasing trophies, not contingencies.

Outside of that concept, Brock is a terrible contingency plan anyway. The idea that bringing in a kid with 1 year of shotgun-spread college experience (in a soft conference) is going to step in and win games for Peyton Manning is comic. He'll have every struggle Tebow had, but without the gamebreaking run threat.

I've watched quite a few of his snaps from last season. As was described, I've yet to see one from under center. If he has to see the field this year it will be an epic fail in Broncoland.

Agamemnon
04-30-2012, 09:56 AM
You actually believe that? Hilarious!

Fox was forced to swallow his pride and institute a college-like offense simply so Tebow COULD generate offense. You are delusional if you think Tebow could in any way run a standard QB run offense. Guess you'll see once he plays for the Jets, and the same thing happens. I'm sure you'll blame their coach for handcuffing Tebow as well, instead of realizing what is obvious to everyone else - Tebow doesn't have a lot of Pro QB talent.

I never said Tebow could run a traditional NFL offense, at least not well. But taking a Spread Option QB and making him throw out of two receiver sets constantly and usually only on 3rd down is not accommodating him. Accomodating him would've been to run an offense like what Carolina ran with Cam Newton last year. And please let's not get into how much better Cam Newton is. Whether that's true or not, the fact remains that Tebow would've been much better served in that style of offense because he has the same background as Newton.

Oh and people who think Tebow doesn't have pro talent and Osweiler does are complete idiots. Period.

Agamemnon
04-30-2012, 10:01 AM
Tebow wasnt the answer.

He was never given a real chance to prove he was or he wasn't. And yet he still led us to a playoff win. You people are ridiculous.

houghtam
04-30-2012, 10:05 AM
I never said Tebow could run a traditional NFL offense, at least not well. But taking a Spread Option QB and making him throw out of two receiver sets constantly and usually only on 3rd down is not accommodating him. Accomodating him would've been to run an offense like what Carolina ran with Cam Newton last year. And please let's not get into how much better Cam Newton is. Whether that's true or not, the fact remains that Tebow would've been much better served in that style of offense because he has the same background as Newton.

Oh and people who think Tebow doesn't have pro talent and Osweiler does are complete idiots. Period.

To people who are not familiar with college football and/or college offenses, the offense last year definitely looked like a "college offense". You're right though. They ran closer to a GaTech offense and not a Florida one. Two completely different offenses.

TonyR
04-30-2012, 10:07 AM
I would have rather had Weeden, but Osweiler was the next best option...

See this is part of what concerns me about this pick. In my mind QB is a position where you only draft a guy you're really sure about and really love. I just feel like the Broncos were in a position where they were basically saying "we can't have Luck and we can't have RGIII and we can't have Tanehill and we can't have Weeden but we'll take the next best option". To me, unless they have real concerns about Manning's health, this was not the year to spend a high pick on a QB, particularly if that QB isn't the guy you really want. No matter how hard I try I can't talk myself into this pick. We've got a small window to win with Manning and I really wish they would have gotten a player to help maximize things in the short term rather than worrying about what comes next.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-30-2012, 10:08 AM
Fox never accommodated anything but Tebow's running ability (while running a passing scheme that actually undermined Tebow's strengths in the passing game). And the two situations are completely different any way. It's about philosophy differences, not what he can or can't do. What he did with Tebow is something he was documented to have thought about well before Tebow, and was ridiculously run heavy which is what he prefers.

I'm just curious to see if Manning's tendency to pass every down and Fox's tendency to run a lot and try to control the clock will mesh. I certainly don't see it as a certainty.

I L'd OL at "tebow's strengths in the passing game."

TonyR
04-30-2012, 10:10 AM
To be honest with you I don't give a **** who the backup QB is at this point. If we fall to a backup, we're f'd. We're chasing trophies, not contingencies.

Doesn't happen often, but I have to mostly agree with you here.

peacepipe
04-30-2012, 10:12 AM
See this is part of what concerns me about this pick. In my mind QB is a position where you only draft a guy you're really sure about and really love. I just feel like the Broncos were in a position where they were basically saying "we can't have Luck and we can't have RGIII and we can't have Tanehill and we can't have Weeden but we'll take the next best option". To me, unless they have real concerns about Manning's health, this was not the year to spend a high pick on a QB, particularly if that QB isn't the guy you really want. No matter how hard I try I can't talk myself into this pick. We've got a small window to win with Manning and I really wish they would have gotten a player to help maximize things in the short term rather than worrying about what comes next.

but even if weeden were available,he would've been a bad pick. 29 yrs old,wouldn't start til he was 33/34 yrs old. we would have to draft a QBOTF in his 1st yr starting. the only teams out there that would've been good fit for weeden would be teams where he could start right away.

socalorado
04-30-2012, 10:18 AM
He was never given a real chance to prove he was or he wasn't. And yet he still led us to a playoff win. You people are ridiculous.

http://demotivationalblog.com/demotivational/2008/09/rock-bottom-youll-know-it-when-you-get-there.jpg

EmpireOrange
04-30-2012, 10:19 AM
Are you kidding me?

Steeler fans question the drafting of Ziggy Hood when they already had Hampton ...and Patriot fans wondered WTF? when Bill selected not one but two receiving TE's in Gronkowski and Hernandez

Look we get it...you're pissed that the Broncos didn't draft the guys you had on your wish list...

I'm guessing some of you clowns will never be satisfied no matter what...

you dipsticks shouted that Bowlen's a cheap mo-fo'...so he spends a ton on a HoF QB, and you b**** and moan that he spent money.

you clowns griped that the Broncos didn't spend money on the DT position and then when they drafted one you b**** about where he was drafted...

you guys griped about needing Rb depth as knowshon moreno and lance ball suck and McGahee is old and owes everything he did in 2011 to Tebow...then they draft a kid that put up great stats and you question the competition he played against and where he too was drafted...

you clowns wanted a 3-4 year project QB that struggled to complete half his passes instead of manning, and when he got traded you still said we needed to find our QBOTF cuz Manning surely will suck after missing a year or would be one good hit from slobbering on himself in a wheelchair...and when they draft a guy to sit behind Manning you again b**** about where he was selected and question his ability to become a pretty good Qb after sitting behind Manning a couple of years.

My God! there is no pleasing any of you clowns.

This is the post of the year! Bumpity, bump, bump, bump...

BroncoBeavis
04-30-2012, 10:23 AM
BS,you're just pissed off that even when fox/mccoy change the entire offense to ACCOMMODATE tebow it still couldn't hide the fact that tebow couldn't play QB. he was ridicously run heavy because his QB,TIM TEBOW,couldn't throw the damn ball.
jake delhomme,who isn't a great QB,threw the ball quite abit when fox was his coach. you want to know why? he could throw the ball.

Oh, and Steve Smith.

BroncoBeavis
04-30-2012, 10:25 AM
Kid who physically can't throw a ball hangs 316 on the best defense in football.

Film at 11.

baja
04-30-2012, 10:27 AM
Kid who physically can't throw a ball hangs 316 on the best defense in football.

Film at 11.

Except you could have completed half of those opportunities

Agamemnon
04-30-2012, 10:29 AM
http://demotivationalblog.com/demotivational/2008/09/rock-bottom-youll-know-it-when-you-get-there.jpg

So did you know it?

BroncoBeavis
04-30-2012, 10:32 AM
Except you could have completed half of those opportunities

http://demotivationalblog.com/demotivational/2008/09/rock-bottom-youll-know-it-when-you-get-there.jpg

OrangeCrush2724
04-30-2012, 10:32 AM
I L'd OL at "tebow's strengths in the passing game."

I did too. Hilarious!

Agamemnon
04-30-2012, 10:35 AM
See this is part of what concerns me about this pick. In my mind QB is a position where you only draft a guy you're really sure about and really love. I just feel like the Broncos were in a position where they were basically saying "we can't have Luck and we can't have RGIII and we can't have Tanehill and we can't have Weeden but we'll take the next best option". To me, unless they have real concerns about Manning's health, this was not the year to spend a high pick on a QB, particularly if that QB isn't the guy you really want. No matter how hard I try I can't talk myself into this pick. We've got a small window to win with Manning and I really wish they would have gotten a player to help maximize things in the short term rather than worrying about what comes next.

We almost never agree on anything, and yet here we are in complete agreement. I was never happy with the Manning move, but I had come to terms with it as a way to try to win a Super Bowl now (and really that is the only way I could even come close to swallowing it). And then they pull the carpet out from under me once again, and show that they aren't trying to win now quite as much as I thought. It's maddening honestly.

It left me to conclude that they really wanted to get rid of Tebow with the Manning signing much more than they wanted to become a sudden contender. And that just sucks.

Lestat
04-30-2012, 10:36 AM
What this says though is that they weren't all that sold on Wolfe. And that they were willing to gamble getting him for slightly improved standing in the 4th round (where all-stars are rarely found)

From what I'm reading here though, we're lucky the Ravens DIDN'T take him. In which case these same guys would be trying to tell us that it was some other dude EFX was 100% sold on.

In the end it's all just bull****. They got who they got, but there's no rational pretending that everyone they ended up with was exactly who they wanted.

no, it says that the Broncos know how to play out the draft. they felt they could get Wolfe at #36 and were right. no sense in taking him before you need to. people thought Von was a mistake last year because he was a 3-4 OLB by most experts picks. Elway was right in taking him. people thought Franklin was a reach last year, should have played G and were made that we didn't land Bowers instead. Elway ranked him as a RT and he was right. he allowed the draft to come to him and Rahim Moore fell to us.

the man has shown that he knows what he's doing in the draft. yet either because of jettisoning Tebow or not liking the names of the guys he took people keep questioning his drafting prowess.

19 draft picks by Josh McDaniels produced 7 starters. 1 of which is no longer with the team, 2 others are considered by the fans to be among the worst starters on the team.

16 draft picks by Elway so far, 4 started last season, 4 of the 7 picks have a legit shot to start or at least be a heavy contributor to the team this season.
that has the potential to be 8 starters in 2 drafts in two seasons whereas it took a season after he was canned to start seeing much production out of McDaniels players.

Elway's job is to maximize the value in all avenues pursued to improve this team.
he's done that and people still bitch about the draft. he's put us in a great situation financially moving forward, we have legit talent on the roster and have upgraded significantly since picking #2 in the draft last year.

it's one thing to say "i'm not sold on the picks but i'll reserve my judgement for later on." most of the people assessing the draft seem to be saying "Elway needs to learn from a proven winner like the Pats." the Pats draft like **** and have for the last 6 years or so except hitting on the TE's.
"Elway is clueless on the draft and should hire better people." he's hired the right people, he's done his job.

the man has been on the job all of two years and has put this franchise in a better position than we've been in since going the AFC Championship.
he's doing his job, all the while learning on the fly and still people seem to want him to instantly turn into Ozzie Newsome,Ted Thompson or Kevin Colbert.

Agamemnon
04-30-2012, 10:37 AM
I did too. Hilarious!

If you think Tebow has no strengths when it comes to passing, you have no business discussing football ever, with anyone. Period.

gyldenlove
04-30-2012, 10:41 AM
Wolfe had 9 sacks last year, alot for a DT if that's where he lined up most of the time. In other news, Kiper likes him, though I'm not sure if that makes me happy or not. If he can provide inside pass rush ability he's just what they need.

He lined up everywhere, 0-tech, 1-tech, 3-tech, 5-tech and 7-tech, they used him in every single package they have on defense.

Agamemnon
04-30-2012, 10:44 AM
He lined up everywhere, 0-tech, 1-tech, 3-tech, 5-tech and 7-tech, they used him in every single package they have on defense.

This is one of the best things about him as a prospect in my opinion.

Lestat
04-30-2012, 10:49 AM
If you think Tebow has no strengths when it comes to passing, you have no business discussing football ever, with anyone. Period.

his issues have more to do with lacking instincts, pocket presence, poor mechanical timing and feel for the game from a quarterback perspective.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-30-2012, 10:52 AM
If you think Tebow has no strengths when it comes to passing, you have no business discussing football ever, with anyone. Period.

And if you think he showed that he can be a passer at this level last year, or that the Jets are using him as a personal protector in the punting game and are still planning on having him lead that team from the QB position, you should probably have your head examined.

BroncoBeavis
04-30-2012, 10:53 AM
no, it says that the Broncos know how to play out the draft. they felt they could get Wolfe at #36 and were right. no sense in taking him before you need to. people thought Von was a mistake last year because he was a 3-4 OLB by most experts picks. Elway was right in taking him. people thought Franklin was a reach last year, should have played G and were made that we didn't land Bowers instead. Elway ranked him as a RT and he was right. he allowed the draft to come to him and Rahim Moore fell to us.

the man has shown that he knows what he's doing in the draft. yet either because of jettisoning Tebow or not liking the names of the guys he took people keep questioning his drafting prowess.

19 draft picks by Josh McDaniels produced 7 starters. 1 of which is no longer with the team, 2 others are considered by the fans to be among the worst starters on the team.

16 draft picks by Elway so far, 4 started last season, 4 of the 7 picks have a legit shot to start or at least be a heavy contributor to the team this season.
that has the potential to be 8 starters in 2 drafts in two seasons whereas it took a season after he was canned to start seeing much production out of McDaniels players.

Elway's job is to maximize the value in all avenues pursued to improve this team.
he's done that and people still b**** about the draft. he's put us in a great situation financially moving forward, we have legit talent on the roster and have upgraded significantly since picking #2 in the draft last year.

it's one thing to say "i'm not sold on the picks but i'll reserve my judgement for later on." most of the people assessing the draft seem to be saying "Elway needs to learn from a proven winner like the Pats." the Pats draft like **** and have for the last 6 years or so except hitting on the TE's.
"Elway is clueless on the draft and should hire better people." he's hired the right people, he's done his job.

the man has been on the job all of two years and has put this franchise in a better position than we've been in since going the AFC Championship.
he's doing his job, all the while learning on the fly and still people seem to want him to instantly turn into Ozzie Newsome,Ted Thompson or Kevin Colbert.

That's all well and good, but as you say at the end of the day the proof is in the pudding. I don't hold nearly as much regard as you I guess for last year's draft. I see one straight-up player taken #2 overall... but really it was hard to be wrong in that position. Other than that, there were a few players that saw the field, but not much to be impressed with beyond that. But they're still young and there's still plenty of potential, so who knows.

I've got questions about the Wolfe pick, mostly size-conference related. But I'm willing to be wrong on that. My objections in a thread like this are two things, really.

One, the draft is fluid. It's widely known EFX missed at least one of their top picks which is why they dropped twice. Saying it "couldn't have gone better" and having all the the FO Fanbois nod in unison is a bit much.

Two, the Oz pick was moronic. Both in value and need terms. It was a reach to anyone not imbibing the koolaid, and then considering the sell-out-for-a-championship Manning signing this was also the last thing in the world the team needs if winning trophies with Peyton is really the name of the game.

OrangeCrush2724
04-30-2012, 11:19 AM
I think the original plan was to see what fell to #25, and make a decision. I believe there were a few players that they were monitoring to see if they fell out of the top 25 (probably Poe, Brockers, and Kirkpatrick), who I'm glad didn't fall. Once NE traded up to #22 to pick Chandler Jones, and Pittsburgh picked David Decastro at #24, it seems the Broncos felt that there would be no danger trading down to #31 to pick Wolfe. Then to increase the value of their 4th round pick, they traded back down again assuming that since neither NE nor Pittsburgh picked Wolfe in the 1st, that they would be safe at #36. I am pretty sure they had no clue that Baltimore was planning on picking him at #36. It is obvious from the videos on denverbroncos.com, that Wolfe was their guy going into the 2nd day (at #36). They got lucky that Upshaw fell.

That's not how it went. It went like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kE0JOP6QN0&feature=related

jhns
04-30-2012, 11:23 AM
And if you think he showed that he can be a passer at this level last year, or that the Jets are using him as a personal protector in the punting game and are still planning on having him lead that team from the QB position, you should probably have your head examined.

I always find it funny when Orton defenders try to hate on Tebow. You and tony are full of fail.

Lestat
04-30-2012, 11:23 AM
That's all well and good, but as you say at the end of the day the proof is in the pudding. I don't hold nearly as much regard as you I guess for last year's draft. I see one straight-up player taken #2 overall... but really it was hard to be wrong in that position. Other than that, there were a few players that saw the field, but not much to be impressed with beyond that. But they're still young and there's still plenty of potential, so who knows.

I've got questions about the Wolfe pick, mostly size-conference related. But I'm willing to be wrong on that. My objections in a thread like this are two things, really.

One, the draft is fluid. It's widely known EFX missed at least one of their top picks which is why they dropped twice. Saying it "couldn't have gone better" and having all the the FO Fanbois nod in unison is a bit much.

Two, the Oz pick was moronic. Both in value and need terms. It was a reach to anyone not imbibing the koolaid, and then considering the sell-out-for-a-championship Manning signing this was also the last thing in the world the team needs if winning trophies with Peyton is really the name of the game.


ok except every single franchise says that. "we got our guy." "our draft went exactly as planned." no team gets every player they target in a given draft and you as a war room have to adjust accordingly. you don't get your guy in DeCastro so the rest of the draft prospects you have on your board are similar in nature, the value is the same essentially and everyone else drafting around you isn't likely to take your guy.

it's a calculated risk that every GM at one point or another has to play. you don't become a GM if you don't have the balls to make moves. you don't stay a GM if you don't learn to read the draft's ebbs and flows and learn to maneuver around it.

people keep talking about the Osweiler pick as dumb. but once again, when do you normally see a QB with his talent level and potential fall that far?
this is a guy who can be a franchise QB in the future after learning under one of the top 5 of all time. 2-3 years of developmental time is the expectation for him, 2-3 years is also the assumed retirement of Manning so you get to keep your team playing at a high level and not have to break a guy in from scratch.

if Manning works out the Broncos are picking at 30-32 for the next 3+ years.
you're not going to get a guy to fall that far with franchise potential unless he screws up like Mallett did. and we didn't take Mallett due to character concerns.

so would you rather be unprepared when Manning leaves and have to rebuild all over again or would you rather fill one more void now and then have to go right back to around 6-10 seasons in 3 years because we couldn't find and develop the next QB?

i don't like taking him in round 2 but i doubt he lasted much longer after us.

TonyR
04-30-2012, 11:29 AM
I always find it funny when Orton defenders try to hate on Tebow. You and tony are full of fail.

I always find it funny how I'm always on your mind.

peacepipe
04-30-2012, 11:31 AM
I always find it funny when Orton defenders try to hate on Tebow. You and tony are full of fail.I always find it funny when tebowites think because you're not a fan of tebow that you must be a fan of orton.

jhns
04-30-2012, 11:32 AM
I always find it funny how I'm always on your mind.

Define always. I think you are just a drama queen that is too stupid for message boards.

You are a great example of an idiot who defended everything Orton, and hated on everything Tebow. Who is better tony?

jhns
04-30-2012, 11:33 AM
I always find it when tebowites think because you're not a fan of tebow that you must be a fan of orton.

Those two continually defended Orton. Were they Orton haters?

LOL

Peace showing his stupidity again. What else is new? It seems Tebow haters do have this in common...

gyldenlove
04-30-2012, 11:42 AM
This is one of the best things about him as a prospect in my opinion.

I threw on some tape with him yesterday, I watched about 200 plays and he never quits - on every single play he was playing the whistle hustling downfield, battling double teams, collapsing the pocket, trying to get hands in passing lanes. That was very impressive, with defensive linemen you expect them to get winded and take a few plays every so often where they just lock up their offensive lineman and disengage when the play has gone past them, but I didn't see a single play like that. His body type would allow him to bulk up to 330 if he doesn't fit as a pass rusher, he is a huge man who could be moved to NT if need be.

He doesn't fire off the snap as fast as I would like, but he is a real menace 1 on 1, he has a good array of moves and very nice body control and hand usage. When he 1 on 1 in run defense he is strong and disengaging and getting his hands on the runner, but lacks the upper body strength to make those arm tackles reliably.

I think he is going to be a good fit on the nickel defense, he can stunt very effectively so if you design some plays with Dumervil stunting inside and Wolfe coming around to take on the tackle you could strike paydirt. Hopefully between Bannan, Warren and Vickerson they can find someone who can really plug the 1-tech on run downs.

TonyR
04-30-2012, 11:43 AM
Define always. I think you are just a drama queen that is too stupid for message boards.

You are a great example of an idiot who defended everything Orton, and hated on everything Tebow. Who is better tony?

LOL I haven't mentioned Tebow or Orton in this thread and yet you're bringing me up and getting defensive and hysterical. But I'm the drama queen. And I'm the stupid one. Thanks for the laugh, dipshiz.

Agamemnon
04-30-2012, 11:46 AM
And if you think he showed that he can be a passer at this level last year, or that the Jets are using him as a personal protector in the punting game and are still planning on having him lead that team from the QB position, you should probably have your head examined.

Every time you post regarding Tebow you only reveal your abundant ignorance and bias.

Tebow is not a great or even good QB presently (he is a good football player overall, but relies on his running ability to compensate for his passing deficiencies). But he has repeatedly shown flashes of the potential to become one. People who claim otherwise either have an agenda or simply don't know what they are talking about. In your case I tend to think it's both.

socalorado
04-30-2012, 11:50 AM
Every time you post regarding Tebow you only reveal your abundant ignorance and bias.

Tebow is not a great or even good QB presently (he is a good football player overall, but relies on his running ability to compensate for his passing deficiencies). But he has repeatedly shown flashes of the potential to become one. People who claim otherwise either have an agenda or simply don't know what they are talking about. In your case I tend to think it's both.

http://www.jetsinsider.com/forums/
Your at rock bottom here, so go discuss it.

Agamemnon
04-30-2012, 11:51 AM
I threw on some tape with him yesterday, I watched about 200 plays and he never quits - on every single play he was playing the whistle hustling downfield, battling double teams, collapsing the pocket, trying to get hands in passing lanes. That was very impressive, with defensive linemen you expect them to get winded and take a few plays every so often where they just lock up their offensive lineman and disengage when the play has gone past them, but I didn't see a single play like that. His body type would allow him to bulk up to 330 if he doesn't fit as a pass rusher, he is a huge man who could be moved to NT if need be.

He doesn't fire off the snap as fast as I would like, but he is a real menace 1 on 1, he has a good array of moves and very nice body control and hand usage. When he 1 on 1 in run defense he is strong and disengaging and getting his hands on the runner, but lacks the upper body strength to make those arm tackles reliably.

I think he is going to be a good fit on the nickel defense, he can stunt very effectively so if you design some plays with Dumervil stunting inside and Wolfe coming around to take on the tackle you could strike paydirt. Hopefully between Bannan, Warren and Vickerson they can find someone who can really plug the 1-tech on run downs.

Yeah, I fully expect Wolfe to get the bulk of the work at UT on obvious passing downs. Hopefully he can win a starting role, but at minimum he needs to establish himself as a rotational pass rush DT amidst a group of DT's that have virtually zero pass rush ability between them. Anything less will be very disappointing.

houghtam
04-30-2012, 11:54 AM
Yeah, I fully expect Wolfe to get the bulk of the work at UT on obvious passing downs. Hopefully he can win a starting role, but at minimum he needs to establish himself as a rotational pass rush DT amidst a group of DT's that have virtually zero pass rush ability between them. Anything less will be very disappointing.

Those are my hopes for him. If he can meet those as a 2nd rounder in his first year, I would be thrilled.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-30-2012, 11:55 AM
Every time you post regarding Tebow you only reveal your abundant ignorance and bias.

Tebow is not a great or even good QB presently (he is a good football player overall, but relies on his running ability to compensate for his passing deficiencies). But he has repeatedly shown flashes of the potential to become one. People who claim otherwise either have an agenda or simply don't know what they are talking about. In your case I tend to think it's both.

Thats true of any pro football player that makes plays here and there.

DBroncos4life
04-30-2012, 12:05 PM
I want to know how the Jags can justify not trading that 3rd for Tebow. A punter in the third??

Agamemnon
04-30-2012, 12:07 PM
Thats true of any pro football player that makes plays here and there.

Yes, and that's all I've ever really seen in Tebow up to this point: a guy who can make plays. That's why I wanted him to be given time to develop, because if you can increase his playmaking to mistake ratio over time he becomes a scary good player. But oh well, now we just have to hang our hopes on the next few years with Manning and the off chance Osweiler is worth a ****.

BroncoBeavis
04-30-2012, 12:18 PM
this is a guy who can be a franchise QB in the future after learning under one of the top 5 of all time.

And you base this on one losing season in the Pac-12 where he ran nothing resembling a NFL style offense. Every dig on Tebow is there for Brock. Except he's less athletic, has less experience, fewer accomplishments, played weaker competition, and lost more.

if Manning works out the Broncos are picking at 30-32 for the next 3+ years.
you're not going to get a guy to fall that far with franchise potential unless he screws up like Mallett did. and we didn't take Mallett due to character concerns.

This was the 57th pick. Something in your logic is not right.

so would you rather be unprepared when Manning leaves and have to rebuild all over again or would you rather fill one more void now and then have to go right back to around 6-10 seasons in 3 years because we couldn't find and develop the next QB?

i don't like taking him in round 2 but i doubt he lasted much longer after us.

I'd rather give Manning and our defense every weapon possible for this run. Manning's won one title in 14 years. And it happened when his defense played lights out in the playoffs. We stopped thinking about 2015 when we signed Peyton for $20 per. It's moronic to do that and then half-ass it the rest of the way.

jhns
04-30-2012, 01:03 PM
LOL I haven't mentioned Tebow or Orton in this thread and yet you're bringing me up and getting defensive and hysterical. But I'm the drama queen. And I'm the stupid one. Thanks for the laugh, dipshiz.

I never said you brought them up. Your post doesn't even make a little bit of sense. You are proving to be too stupid for message boards, again.

footstepsfrom#27
04-30-2012, 01:12 PM
They picked up help at almost every position they had a need and found a couple guys that look like they might be sleepers so before camp even opens and nobody's put on the pads, theres no reason to think they didn't fare well any more than we should think we drafted the next dynasty...give it two years at least.

DarkHorse
04-30-2012, 01:30 PM
Elway is tearing this team apart - just poll the Mane

TonyR
04-30-2012, 01:34 PM
Your post doesn't even make a little bit of sense.

Do you think anyone is surprised to see that you're confused?

jhns
04-30-2012, 01:39 PM
Do you think anyone is surprised to see that you're confused?

Again, proving to be too stupid for message boards. How are you not embarrassed by your lack of reading comprehension?

Bmore Manning
04-30-2012, 01:46 PM
Last time I checked, Peyton Manning was the QB of the Denver Broncos. Not Orton or Tebow. They are back-ups on the Cowboys and Jets. Bitching about either is not gonna bring them back. Maybe there should be more attention paid to this team currently instead of bitching about Tebow and his "flashes" or Orton and his "abilities". I'm pretty excited Peyton ****ing Manning is back playing the game I love.. And by the way he's the QB of the Broncos now, so focus on the now instead of the has beens or the never was.

jhns
04-30-2012, 01:50 PM
Last time I checked, Peyton Manning was the QB of the Denver Broncos. Not Orton or Tebow. They are back-ups on the Cowboys and Jets. b****ing about either is not gonna bring them back. Maybe there should be more attention paid to this team currently instead of b****ing about Tebow and his "flashes" or Orton and his "abilities". I'm pretty excited Peyton ****ing Manning is back playing the game I love.. And by the way he's the QB of the Broncos now, so focus on the now instead of the has beens or the never was.

No one cares. You aren't a Bronco fan. We understand that you don't get it. Now you need to understand that this is when you stfu.

Bmore Manning
04-30-2012, 01:51 PM
You have your dick hard to a scrub QB.

jhns
04-30-2012, 01:53 PM
You have your dick hard to a scrub QB.

So? You are a fake fan. You wouldn't understand.

Bmore Manning
04-30-2012, 01:54 PM
So? You are a fake fan. You wouldn't understand.

Actually I'm a real fan of the game and good players. Your a fan of a player too, so that must make you a fake fan.

jhns
04-30-2012, 01:56 PM
Actually I'm a real fan of the game and good players. Your a fan of a player too, so that must make you a fake fan.

I am a Broncos fan. I don't jump on the bandwagons like you. Sorry.

Bmore Manning
04-30-2012, 01:58 PM
I am a Broncos fan. I don't jump on the bandwagons like you. Sorry.

I'm sure your all over a Jets forum posting as if you were a long time Jetbfan waiting for your chance to cry for Tebow. At least I came here and announced my intentions from day one. I'm real, what are you?

jhns
04-30-2012, 02:01 PM
I'm sure your all over a Jets forum posting as if you were a long time Jetbfan waiting for your chance to cry for Tebow. At least I came here and announced my intentions from day one. I'm real, what are you?

I don't post on any other message board. Not for other teams, or this one. Not for cars , games, politics, religion, or anything else. Just this board. You sure are full of fail. Your only comeback is a made up scenerio...

LOL

Poor bandwagon fan.

Bmore Manning
04-30-2012, 02:04 PM
I don't post on any other message board. Not for other teams, or this one. Not for cars , games, or anything else. You sure are full of fail. Your only comeback a made up scenerio...

LOL

Poor bandwagon fan.

I don't need to justify myself to you, in your postings about Tebow your true colors show. Your hurt he's gone. That's ok, but your posts to other people make you look like a foolish loose cannon. With little knowledge of the game.

jhns
04-30-2012, 02:08 PM
I don't need to justify myself to you, in your postings about Tebow your true colors show. Your hurt he's gone. That's ok, but your posts to other people make you look like a foolish loose cannon. With little knowledge of the game.

You are horrible with English. It makes you look stupid.

If I talk about last seasons QB, I am not a real fan? LOL

If I say he was good for us, after turning around a 4-14 team, it proves I don't know anything? LOL

I'm hurt he is gone? What are you even going on about? I love having Manning. I just ordered a jersey, even though I don't get current player jerseys anymore. I don't have a Tebow jersey.

You are retarded. You are proving my point about bandwagon fans.

Agamemnon
04-30-2012, 02:09 PM
I can't see the last eleven posts in this thread.

Hilarious!

Tombstone RJ
04-30-2012, 02:11 PM
another thread jhns jacked...

Willynowei
04-30-2012, 02:41 PM
Elways needs to start studying the 2 AFC teams that are consistently in the playoffs and Super Bowl: New England and Pittsburgh.

Both team draft smart and rarely have "head scratcher" picks. NE likes to trade down, but they do it the polar opposite way compared to Elway's 1st-round fiasco on Thursday.

Both teams regularly keep lots of their picks instead of cutting 2nd and 3rd rounders as has been the case in Denver dating back to Shannyham.

Bottom line: Elway is as clueless drafting as was Shannyham and McStalin. Some things never change. Meanwhile, NE and Pittsburg just keep pulling off one solid draft after another.

Considering the draft that Shanahan had last year with the Redskins, I'm beginning to think it has to do with Denver's area scouts, etc.

jhns
04-30-2012, 02:51 PM
Considering the draft that Shanahan had last year with the Redskins, I'm beginning to think it has to do with Denver's area scouts, etc.

Shanahan had some of the leagues best drafts in the years before he was fired.

Chris
04-30-2012, 03:10 PM
I threw on some tape with him yesterday, I watched about 200 plays and he never quits - on every single play he was playing the whistle hustling downfield, battling double teams, collapsing the pocket, trying to get hands in passing lanes. That was very impressive, with defensive linemen you expect them to get winded and take a few plays every so often where they just lock up their offensive lineman and disengage when the play has gone past them, but I didn't see a single play like that. His body type would allow him to bulk up to 330 if he doesn't fit as a pass rusher, he is a huge man who could be moved to NT if need be.

He doesn't fire off the snap as fast as I would like, but he is a real menace 1 on 1, he has a good array of moves and very nice body control and hand usage. When he 1 on 1 in run defense he is strong and disengaging and getting his hands on the runner, but lacks the upper body strength to make those arm tackles reliably.

I think he is going to be a good fit on the nickel defense, he can stunt very effectively so if you design some plays with Dumervil stunting inside and Wolfe coming around to take on the tackle you could strike paydirt. Hopefully between Bannan, Warren and Vickerson they can find someone who can really plug the 1-tech on run downs.

He can work on his upper body strength. We can make him a beast. Explosiveness... maybe not so much. So do you see him as an every down guy eventually?

errand
04-30-2012, 03:16 PM
Are you saying Manning would be supportive of using a 2nd round pick on a player who will never actually help him win another Super Bowl before he retires? I can't comprehend how that could be true.

Of course, you being the dumb ass that you are, you would think that....

Manning isn't all about himself, regardless of what you might have read or believe...he's a team player.

and even if he isn't, Elway is about the Broncos there clown, and he'll build the team the way he sees fit to accomplish his goal of winning SB's.

The draft wasn't all about just getting players that can help Peyton....it's also about making sure we keep it going after he hangs them up......

Agamemnon
04-30-2012, 03:17 PM
He can work on his upper body strength. We can make him a beast. Explosiveness... maybe not so much. So do you see him as an every down guy eventually?

The dude had 33 bench reps at the combine. He doesn't have upper body strength issues. Any observed issues with strength on the field (which I haven't seen personally, but I don't have film on the guy) would probably be the result of bad form or technique.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-30-2012, 03:22 PM
another thread jhns jacked...

But don't you worry. The mods won't do a single thing about it.

baja
04-30-2012, 03:26 PM
But don't you worry. The mods won't do a single thing about it.

I see now why you call Kyle elusive. First you see him in Chicago than boom he's in Denver before you can say Jack Daniels he's in KC than boom he's in Dallas. Guy is elusive as hell.... Where will he show next Toronto

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-30-2012, 03:46 PM
I see now why you call Kyle elusive. First you see him in Chicago than boom he's in Denver before you can say Jack Daniels he's in KC than boom he's in Dallas. Guy is elusive as hell.... Where will he show next Toronto

Nobody fails quite like you, Baja.

"The elusive Kyle Orton" was a line used during a Broncos game broadcast during the '10 season. I thought it was funny.

You don't have a sense of humor. That's a "you" problem.

baja
04-30-2012, 03:55 PM
Nobody fails quite like you, Baja.

"The elusive Kyle Orton" was a line used during a Broncos game broadcast during the '10 season. I thought it was funny.

You don't have a sense of humor. That's a "you" problem.

I wonder which one of us is displaying a lack of humor here.

Oh and if you are going place emphasis on a word you should make an extra effort to spell it correctly.

pricejj
04-30-2012, 04:05 PM
The dude had 33 bench reps at the combine. He doesn't have upper body strength issues. Any observed issues with strength on the field (which I haven't seen personally, but I don't have film on the guy) would probably be the result of bad form or technique.

Wolfe is a beast. Poe and Ta'amu had more bench reps because they are 350 lb. NT's. As for the other guys:

Kendall Reyes - 36 (22.75 years old)
Brondon Thompson - 35 (22.5 year old)
Derek Wolfe - 33 (22.1 years old)
Fletcher Cox - 30 (21.6 years old)
Jerel Worthy - 28 (22.0 years old)
Devon Still - 26 (22.8 years old)
Michael Brockers - 19 (21.6 years old)



To be honest with you I don't give a **** who the backup QB is at this point. If we fall to a backup, we're f'd. We're chasing trophies, not contingencies.


Ah, yes...the Polian plan. Great idea.

errand
04-30-2012, 04:08 PM
That's the main reason I'm not as excited about Manning as everyone else. Dude has always fed on a weak division in the regular season and collapsed against playoff-caliber defenses. I've always thought Manning was overrated, so him being a Bronco now that he is past his prime just makes me go "meh".


Wow...

First off we all know the real reason you're upset with Manning being on our roster.

As for Manning breezing thru his division unscathed playing cupcakes year in and year out

first off early in his career they played in the AFC East (realignment in '02)

His rookie year he tripled his team's win total (1-15 to 3-13) while playing two games each against the 12-4 Jets, the 10-6 Dolphins and
Bills, and the 9-7 Pats...all four of his division rivals made the playoffs.

The next season (1999) led his team to a 13-3 season, playing in a division that the worst team finished 8-8 (Jets and Pats), including the 11-5 Bills and 9-7 dolphins.

His next AFCE season saw him finish 10-6 with the 11-5 Dolphins, 9-7 Jets, 8-8 Bills, and 5-11 Pats.

his last AFCE season saw him stumble to 6-10 as they had to battle not one, not two, but three playoff teams as the Pats and dolphins finished 11-5, and the Jets finished 10-6

In the first 4 years of his career his division rivals alone combined W-L was 144-48 (.750)...and he made the playoffs in two of them

early in his AFC South career the titans weren't a cake walk, as they made the playoffs in '02, '03, '07 and '08..... and the Jags made a little bit of noise as well in '05, and '07....and even in down years the AFCS rivals have always seemed to play pretty decent defense

while you may think he's had it easy, the numbers say early in his career he did not...what happened wasn't the other teams getting worse, he got better. His maturation and improved defense reading and skills have made him make it look too easy.

errand
04-30-2012, 04:18 PM
He was never given a real chance to prove he was or he wasn't. And yet he still led us to a playoff win. You people are ridiculous.


The Ravens won the SB in '00 and came to the conclusion their QB wasn't good enough either (dumped Dilfer, signed Grbac)...Broncos made it to AFCCG and came to conclusion they too needed a new QB (dumped Jake for Jay).....it happens sometimes.

What's ridiculous is you're still trying to convince people of Tebow's greatness....Bronco fans don't care anymore, he's not a Bronco. go see if the guys in green will listen to you spout your gobbledlygook bull**** about how he'll revolutionalize the QB position

Right now he's being used in punt protection, so you might wanna get started......

errand
04-30-2012, 04:20 PM
To people who are not familiar with college football and/or college offenses, the offense last year definitely looked like a "college offense". You're right though. They ran closer to a GaTech offense and not a Florida one. Two completely different offenses.

Oh...OK.

Well then, please forgive us....we apologize....we're just use to seeing QB's running an NFL offense......so i guess we saw neither a college or NFL offense after the bye week

DENVERDUI55
04-30-2012, 04:21 PM
That's the main reason I'm not as excited about Manning as everyone else. Dude has always fed on a weak division in the regular season and collapsed against playoff-caliber defenses. I've always thought Manning was overrated, so him being a Bronco now that he is past his prime just makes me go "meh".

Have you ever thought that he had a large part in their divisions record?

errand
04-30-2012, 04:25 PM
Kid who physically can't throw a ball hangs 316 on the best defense in football.

Film at 11.


That's your liberal NPR version of the story....here's the Fox news version.

WR labelled bust by dumbasses on the OM after one year hangs 204 yards on 4 catches vs. NFL's #1 pass D including 80 yard game winner

errand
04-30-2012, 04:27 PM
If you think Tebow has no strengths when it comes to passing, you have no business discussing football ever, with anyone. Period.

...and you do? Hilarious!

errand
04-30-2012, 04:29 PM
I always find it funny when Orton defenders try to hate on Tebow. You and tony are full of fail.

i find it even more hilarious Tebow nuthuggers hating on Manning

errand
04-30-2012, 04:31 PM
It seems Tebow haters do have this in common...

again you silly little boy.....

we don't hate Tebow...we hate his nuthugging fans like you.

errand
04-30-2012, 04:34 PM
I want to know how the Jags can justify not trading that 3rd for Tebow. A punter in the third??

Well, maybe they rationalized that they already got a 1st round pick playing QB that can't throw the ball very well...why get another? and since their #1 pick struggled mightily, they figured a punter would come in handy...why do you think EFX were glad we had Colquitt?

errand
04-30-2012, 04:36 PM
Have you ever thought that he had a large part in their divisions record?


Of course not...it doesn't fit his template of the Manning signing = EFX just wanted to dump Tebow

BroncoBeavis
04-30-2012, 04:50 PM
Wolfe is a beast. Poe and Ta'amu had more bench reps because they are 350 lb. NT's. As for the other guys:

Kendall Reyes - 36 (22.75 years old)
Brondon Thompson - 35 (22.5 year old)
Derek Wolfe - 33 (22.1 years old)
Fletcher Cox - 30 (21.6 years old)
Jerel Worthy - 28 (22.0 years old)
Devon Still - 26 (22.8 years old)
Michael Brockers - 19 (21.6 years old)




Ah, yes...the Polian plan. Great idea.

Most franchises fall off when the franchise leaves. Which is easy to live with for a decade of good football. Harder when talking 2 or 3 years. But most people were on board with that. We'd better have great memories of the Manning years to tide us over. There's not much reason to hold hope over what comes after.

RaiderH8r
04-30-2012, 04:55 PM
Wolfe is a beast. Poe and Ta'amu had more bench reps because they are 350 lb. NT's. As for the other guys:

Kendall Reyes - 36 (22.75 years old)
Brondon Thompson - 35 (22.5 year old)
Derek Wolfe - 33 (22.1 years old)
Fletcher Cox - 30 (21.6 years old)
Jerel Worthy - 28 (22.0 years old)
Devon Still - 26 (22.8 years old)
Michael Brockers - 19 (21.6 years old)




Ah, yes...the Polian plan. Great idea.

Meth is one helluva drug.

DarkHorse
04-30-2012, 04:57 PM
Tebow guys still hanging out here? Wow, jets don't have their own forum? Poor bastards

Dukes
04-30-2012, 05:26 PM
I don't need to justify myself to you, in your postings about Tebow your true colors show. Your hurt he's gone. That's ok, but your posts to other people make you look like a foolish loose cannon. With little knowledge of the game.

He's barely gotten over Cutler being traded, give him another 3 years to get over Tebow.

Orange_Beard
04-30-2012, 05:33 PM
And yet NE pretty much owns the AFC spot in the Super Bowl year in and year out.

They are starting to look like the Buffalo Bills.

pricejj
04-30-2012, 06:15 PM
Most franchises fall off when the franchise leaves...

No they don't. Perennially successful franchises, like Green Bay (Favre/Rodgers), San Francisco (Montana/Young), Denver (Elway/Griese), New England Brady/Cassel rarely have a fall from grace as bad as Indy did after losing Manning.

pricejj
04-30-2012, 06:17 PM
Derek Wolfe - "I'm like Freddy Kruger. You can kill me once, but I keep coming back."

Mogulseeker
04-30-2012, 07:12 PM
But don't you worry. The mods won't do a single thing about it.

Most threads die after two pages or so anyway.

Jhns is on my iggy. Don't really care.

BroncoBeavis
04-30-2012, 08:26 PM
No they don't. Perennially successful franchises, like Green Bay (Favre/Rodgers), San Francisco (Montana/Young), Denver (Elway/Griese), New England Brady/Cassel rarely have a fall from grace as bad as Indy did after losing Manning.

Not usually as bad as the Colts, no. But Denver's never really been a contender since. GB had a losing season after Favre left. Can't believe you haven't gotten crap about mentioning Cassel. If Cassel was our QBOTF would you call that a win? That spoke more to the strength of the team.

And if Shotgun Brock becomes the next Steve Young, we'll talk.

jhns
05-01-2012, 06:35 AM
i find it even more hilarious Tebow nuthuggers hating on Manning

I find it funny that you continue to prove how stupid Tebow haters are. Why don't you go ahead and quote me hating on Manning? Yeah, point proven.

jhns
05-01-2012, 06:37 AM
again you silly little boy.....

we don't hate Tebow...we hate his nuthugging fans like you.

We get it. You hate when the Broncos win. You are a good little raider fan.

How dare you like the starting QB who gave the Broncos a good season!

LOL

Poor things.

pricejj
05-01-2012, 07:25 AM
Both Ryan Tannehill and Brock Osweiler, essentially started for 1.5 years in college. Tannehill is almost 24. Osweiler is 21. 2011 is the only full year that either one of them started.

Ryan Tannehill - 29 TD's, 15 INT's, 61.6% comp.
Brock Osweiler - 26 TD's, 13 INT's, 63.2% comp.

Tannehill went #8 overall. Osweiler went #57. Given the fact that Osweiler will have every chance to develop normally, and will essentially spend his senior year studying under Peyton Manning. I can't help but think that the Bronco's made the right choice.

Dedhed
05-01-2012, 07:40 AM
But don't you worry. The mods won't do a single thing about it.

This thread was derailed on page 1 by Errand. And you're right, the mods won't do anything about it.

BroncoBeavis
05-01-2012, 07:47 AM
Both Ryan Tannehill and Brock Osweiler, essentially started for 1.5 years in college. Tannehill is almost 24. Osweiler is 21. 2011 is the only full year that either one of them started.

Ryan Tannehill - 29 TD's, 15 INT's, 61.6% comp.
Brock Osweiler - 26 TD's, 13 INT's, 63.2% comp.

Tannehill went #8 overall. Osweiler went #57. Given the fact that Osweiler will have every chance to develop normally, and will essentially spend his senior year studying under Peyton Manning. I can't help but think that the Bronco's made the right choice.

There was a lot more buzz about Oz earlier on in the season. The 5 game losing streak to end the season really set him back.

And Tannehill played a considerable amount under center, which as we all know is the holy grail of "NFL-ready" college QB's. I seriously don't know if Brock's ever taken a snap under center. I can't find one example.

Long story short, Brock is a long-term project. Just like the QB we already had, except we already had one very successful year under our belts with that project. This will just be starting all over again with all the same problems and question marks. All the people who hated Tebow should hate Brock. Except that many people's reasons for hating Tebow had nothing to do with football. If we wanted a project QB to learn behind Manning, we should have held onto Tebow.

I'm not here to say Brock won't ever be an NFL QB. I'm just saying he's a guy that needs 2 or 3 seasons to find himself in the NFL, if he's able to make the transition. And I don't believe sitting down and watching Peyton "I own all Reps" Manning from the sidelines is really going to help him all that much compared to just playing ball.

pricejj
05-01-2012, 08:07 AM
There was a lot more buzz about Oz earlier on in the season. The 5 game losing streak to end the season really set him back.

Long story short, Brock is a long-term project. Just like the QB we already had, except we already had one very successful year under our belts with that project. This will just be starting all over again with all the same problems and question marks. All the people who hated Tebow should hate Brock. Except that many people's reasons for hating Tebow had nothing to do with football. If we wanted a project QB to learn behind Manning, we should have held onto Tebow.

I like Tebow, but he is too much of a circus...it is always about 'him', not the team. It would have been a detriment to the development of this franchise.

If you look at those 5 losses, ASU scored: 28, 27, 27, 38, and 24. Osweiler barely lost a couple of those games, and the Defense got ran out of the building. In ASU's wins they scored: 48, 37, 43, 35, 35, and 48...so the guy can obviously put the team in a position to score points. He is young, inexperienced, a good competitor, with an NFL arm...you can't ask for anything else. The Broncos have put him into a perfect situation.

If you think we would find a better QB in the 2nd round next year, or the year after, I think you would be mistaken.

With proper development, Osweiler could be a franchise QB.

TheDave
05-01-2012, 08:30 AM
John Elway : The Draft Couldn't have gone better.

Followed by 5 pages where the same handful of idiots bitch about the jets back up QB. This place really has become useless.

Too Bad...

jhns
05-01-2012, 08:32 AM
John Elway : The Draft Couldn't have gone better.

Followed by 5 pages where the same handful of idiots b**** about the jets back up QB. This place really has become useless.

Too Bad...

Your crying is setting a better example for us. Tell us again how Orton was the best QB ever! He sure proved to be better than Tebow...

Bmore Manning
05-01-2012, 08:36 AM
Your crying is setting a better example for us. Tell us again how Orton was the best QB ever! He sure proved to be better than Tebow...

Bro, are you Tebows brother? You are way to quick to jump to defend him. TheDave is merely stating that Tebow is gone, this thread is about the draft.

jhns
05-01-2012, 08:37 AM
Bro, are you Tebows brother? You are way to quick to jump to defend him. TheDave is merely stating that Tebow is gone, this thread is about the draft.

He cries all the time.

No one cares about you bandwagon fans, or your opinions. Sorry. You Mannginas are just as bad as the Teboners. The real fans enjoy discussing this teams past. Especially the last football this team played(last season).

Bmore Manning
05-01-2012, 08:42 AM
John Elway : The Draft Couldn't have gone better.

Followed by 5 pages where the same handful of idiots b**** about the jets back up QB. This place really has become useless.

Too Bad...

How's this for Draft talk.. I posted this in a less appropriate topic thread..


I think this was a better draft then many are given credit for. What I like is that Denver doesn't just take the consensus "media" best player. My issue with this draft wasn't the players they took, but rather the round they took them in.
It shows that if they like someone they will make sure they get their guy, and nobody knows where these players fell on real NFL teams boards, not just the media boards. Polk, Miller, these guys were can't miss RB prospects, one went three rounds later and the other undrafted. But we should trust Kiper, McShay and the other experts?

This draft addressed every position of need on the team. While I think they reached, it could have been perfect timing. I don't see what position on Defense other than UT where a rookie would have started, guess what they traded back and got their guy. On offense, I don't think Konz the number one Center prospect would have came in and guaranteed taken Walton's job. He's been a pro for two years. While I'm not saying he's good, would Konz really outright start over him? A rookie to be thrown into the fire to protect Manning? Even Pouncey didn't outright start. Same goes for our good friend Zane, unless DeCastro was drafted, or a Zietler, Silatolu, the rookie Guatd is going to have to compete, and if Denver didn't trade down and took Zietler, or took Silatolu at 36, people would have demanded Elways head! Besides, Manning makes the OLine in front of him look great, Denver has more talent than Indy did.

Now for the skilled positions, you don't need to draft a top round receiver for Manning, he makes practice squad guys look great. I think Page from Toledo will be an impact WR on this team alle Garçon for Indy. As for RB, unless his name was TR, he wasn't starting over McGahee. Hillman is a STUD, I don't care about his level of competition, in football, everyone's objective is to tackle, so the small school thing doesn't bother me with a WR/ RB. Now this FO are high on Fanin, he will most likely be the power back, post McGahee.

Wolfe will make an immediate impact at UT, Hillman will see plenty of snaps as he is the perfect Manning offense RB, Blake can push for an interior job, Trevathan is a great WLB he has scouts calling him the next Lance Briggs per Walterfootball and profootballTalk, and Malik has serious upside! Bolden may be the steal of the draft if he stays healthy, first round talent taken in the fourth. That to me is a team who did their homework and took many guts who will contribute immediately, and have serious upside. I would have liked a NT for the future, and Jean-Baptiste would have been perfect UDFA, but nobody comes out a 100% winner when 31 other teams see the talent in a player you want.

BroncoBeavis
05-01-2012, 08:43 AM
I like Tebow, but he is too much of a circus...it is always about 'him', not the team. It would have been a detriment to the development of this franchise.

And when Denver went to 3 SB's in 4 years, it was all about John Elway, even though we had some solid guys (especially on D) around him.

To this day, people say John 'carried' that team to the Super Bowl.

QB's get too much credit. And blame.

Welcome to the NFL.

To the extent Tebow got any extra attention, it was because of the people who kept saying he couldn't do it. The fact that he kept fighting, and winning is what made him a national phenom. And drove the Broncos to play above themselves in many ways.

Only tools found that kind of attention hard to stomach.

Old Dude
05-01-2012, 08:48 AM
I always find it funny when Orton defenders try to hate on Tebow. You and tony are full of fail.

This is getting really old, jhns. I've already kicked "elusive" out of one thread due to this kind of crap, and now I think it's time for you to leave this thread. Take it somewhere else for awhile. This is a directive from a moderator in case you aren't sure.

As for the rest of you, knock off the personal insults and name-calling. You aren't convincing anyone of anything anyway.

Drek
05-01-2012, 09:02 AM
With proper development, Osweiler could be a franchise QB.

And this is the key point on which Elway's "draft couldn't have gone better" statement hangs.

Elway obviously really loves Osweiler. Other than that they did really well on their picks. Maybe over drafted Hillman, but not by a ton. Other than that we basically went through the draft and hit every position of need with a guy who either was a good fit for where he was taken (Wolfe, Blake, Jackson) or has much higher potential than what he cost us (Bolden, Trevathan). The draft stacked up in such a way that the Broncos FO also spent the whole 7th round prepping for UDFA and it shows, as we've hit the UDFA market with gusto, addressing the one weakness we didn't address in the draft (WR) while also adding additional competition at the weakest spots in terms of worthwhile camp bodies (DB, LB, OL).

If you can excuse an obvious crush on Osweiler we had the draft basically drop a good prospect at every need position into our laps. Can't really ask for much more than that.

baja
05-01-2012, 09:20 AM
This is getting really old, jhns. I've already kicked "elusive" out of one thread due to this kind of crap, and now I think it's time for you to leave this thread. Take it somewhere else for awhile. This is a directive from a moderator in case you aren't sure.

As for the rest of you, knock off the personal insults and name-calling. You aren't convincing anyone of anything anyway.




Kudos Old Dude something had to be done to get this board back to "good" and this is a good approach.

Bmore Manning
05-01-2012, 09:25 AM
And this is the key point on which Elway's "draft couldn't have gone better" statement hangs.

Elway obviously really loves Osweiler. Other than that they did really well on their picks. Maybe over drafted Hillman, but not by a ton. Other than that we basically went through the draft and hit every position of need with a guy who either was a good fit for where he was taken (Wolfe, Blake, Jackson) or has much higher potential than what he cost us (Bolden, Trevathan). The draft stacked up in such a way that the Broncos FO also spent the whole 7th round prepping for UDFA and it shows, as we've hit the UDFA market with gusto, addressing the one weakness we didn't address in the draft (WR) while also adding additional competition at the weakest spots in terms of worthwhile camp bodies (DB, LB, OL).

If you can excuse an obvious crush on Osweiler we had the draft basically drop a good prospect at every need position into our laps. Can't really ask for much more than that.

+1

But I would have liked Jean-Baptiste in UDFA... And then I would have been thoroughly impressed.
I disagree with you about Hillman.. Wasn't it reported that GMs called to inquire and express their dismay in Denver taking Hillman?

Old Dude
05-01-2012, 09:29 AM
You guys are all more than free to argue that the front office is smart or dumb, that trading Tebow was wise or not, that the draft picks were good or bad.


Just knock off the personal attacks, insults and name-calling for awhile. You'll find that your arguments carry a lot more weight that way.

BroncoBeavis
05-01-2012, 09:30 AM
You guys are all more than free to argue that the front office is smart or dumb, that trading Tebow was wise or not, that the draft picks were good or bad.


Just knock off the personal attacks, insults and name-calling for awhile. You'll find that your arguments carry a lot more weight that way.



Monopoly sucks.

vancejohnson82
05-01-2012, 09:35 AM
And this is the key point on which Elway's "draft couldn't have gone better" statement hangs.

Elway obviously really loves Osweiler. Other than that they did really well on their picks. Maybe over drafted Hillman, but not by a ton. Other than that we basically went through the draft and hit every position of need with a guy who either was a good fit for where he was taken (Wolfe, Blake, Jackson) or has much higher potential than what he cost us (Bolden, Trevathan). The draft stacked up in such a way that the Broncos FO also spent the whole 7th round prepping for UDFA and it shows, as we've hit the UDFA market with gusto, addressing the one weakness we didn't address in the draft (WR) while also adding additional competition at the weakest spots in terms of worthwhile camp bodies (DB, LB, OL).

If you can excuse an obvious crush on Osweiler we had the draft basically drop a good prospect at every need position into our laps. Can't really ask for much more than that.

I think the FO was completely sold on picking up Brock...that was the main objective heading in and when we nabbed him Elway was going to say it was a success either way. I like hte Hillman value and if Bolden can stay healthy thats good value too

Agree completely that the FO attacked the UDFA market aggressively...i like it...the Robinson pick could be huge for us....he's going to be my man crush in training camp

alkemical
05-01-2012, 09:35 AM
You guys are all more than free to argue that the front office is smart or dumb, that trading Tebow was wise or not, that the draft picks were good or bad.


Just knock off the personal attacks, insults and name-calling for awhile. You'll find that your arguments carry a lot more weight that way.



+1000000000000 Internets!

Drek
05-01-2012, 09:56 AM
+1

But I would have liked Jean-Baptiste in UDFA... And then I would have been thoroughly impressed.
I disagree with you about Hillman.. Wasn't it reported that GMs called to inquire and express their dismay in Denver taking Hillman?

Well, the source for that is John "Tebow's our guy" Elway. I don't put a ton of faith in that.

Regardless, Hillman was probably gone pretty close to our early 4th and even if he was there we'd have risked not getting Bolden or Blake, both of whom could be big contributors in 2012. Hillman is also quite possibly the best fit not named Doug Martin for Manning's offense in this draft. Given Moreno's many question marks that is a role they couldn't afford to leave vacant or filled by a second tier type like Ball.

TonyR
05-01-2012, 10:09 AM
What are thoughts on Omar Bolden vs. the guy the Eagles took later in the same round, Brandon Boykin?

CEH
05-01-2012, 10:10 AM
I disagree with you about Hillman.. Wasn't it reported that GMs called to inquire and express their dismay in Denver taking Hillman?

Xanders said yesterday Hillman would not have been they with #87. Was he covering his asrse who knows. But teams call other teams all the time afterwards to discuss who they would have taken where and when

I hear the Jets were vivid Irvin went at #15. I think they wanted him as a suprise pick . They are in desprate need for a true pass rusher

CEH
05-01-2012, 10:11 AM
What are thoughts on Omar Bolden vs. the guy the Eagles took later in the draft, Brandon Boykin?

Did you know Bolden had two ACLs . One in '09 and the other knee in '11?

TonyR
05-01-2012, 10:14 AM
Did you know Bolden had two ACLs . One in '09 and the other knee in '11?

That's part of the reason I ask the question. I'm hearing good things about Boykin here in Philly and they appear at a glance to be similar players. Just wondering if the healthier guy may have been the better/smarter/safer pick?

orangemonkey
05-01-2012, 10:20 AM
And this is the key point on which Elway's "draft couldn't have gone better" statement hangs.

Elway obviously really loves Osweiler. Other than that they did really well on their picks. Maybe over drafted Hillman, but not by a ton. Other than that we basically went through the draft and hit every position of need with a guy who either was a good fit for where he was taken (Wolfe, Blake, Jackson) or has much higher potential than what he cost us (Bolden, Trevathan). The draft stacked up in such a way that the Broncos FO also spent the whole 7th round prepping for UDFA and it shows, as we've hit the UDFA market with gusto, addressing the one weakness we didn't address in the draft (WR) while also adding additional competition at the weakest spots in terms of worthwhile camp bodies (DB, LB, OL).

If you can excuse an obvious crush on Osweiler we had the draft basically drop a good prospect at every need position into our laps. Can't really ask for much more than that.

Completely agree with this! Great take - kudos.

gyldenlove
05-01-2012, 10:20 AM
What are thoughts on Omar Bolden vs. the guy the Eagles took later in the draft, Brandon Boykin?

Boykin is a nickel corner and nothing else, very much a similar type to Sydquan Thompson. Bolden is a guy who can play the RCB spot if he gets over his injuries.

They have very similar size and measurables, but Bolden has 20 pounds on Boykin which will allow him to play the outside without getting his **** pushed in by physical recivers - Boykin would get manhandled by big guys like Brandon Marshall, Demayrius Thomas etc.

pricejj
05-01-2012, 10:27 AM
If you can excuse an obvious crush on Osweiler we had the draft basically drop a good prospect at every need position into our laps. Can't really ask for much more than that.

Yep. I really like Franklin, Judie, and Robinson too...All would have been worthy of 3rd or 4th round picks, and could start in the NFL

Tombstone RJ
05-01-2012, 10:27 AM
Both Ryan Tannehill and Brock Osweiler, essentially started for 1.5 years in college. Tannehill is almost 24. Osweiler is 21. 2011 is the only full year that either one of them started.

Ryan Tannehill - 29 TD's, 15 INT's, 61.6% comp.
Brock Osweiler - 26 TD's, 13 INT's, 63.2% comp.

Tannehill went #8 overall. Osweiler went #57. Given the fact that Osweiler will have every chance to develop normally, and will essentially spend his senior year studying under Peyton Manning. I can't help but think that the Bronco's made the right choice.

Tannehill ran a pro style offense. Osweiler run a college spread "inflate my numbers" offense.

Tombstone RJ
05-01-2012, 10:29 AM
And this is the key point on which Elway's "draft couldn't have gone better" statement hangs.

Elway obviously really loves Osweiler. Other than that they did really well on their picks. Maybe over drafted Hillman, but not by a ton. Other than that we basically went through the draft and hit every position of need with a guy who either was a good fit for where he was taken (Wolfe, Blake, Jackson) or has much higher potential than what he cost us (Bolden, Trevathan). The draft stacked up in such a way that the Broncos FO also spent the whole 7th round prepping for UDFA and it shows, as we've hit the UDFA market with gusto, addressing the one weakness we didn't address in the draft (WR) while also adding additional competition at the weakest spots in terms of worthwhile camp bodies (DB, LB, OL).

If you can excuse an obvious crush on Osweiler we had the draft basically drop a good prospect at every need position into our laps. Can't really ask for much more than that.


ah BS. Of course Elway is going to say "we hit everything in the draft, we love it!!" that's what front office people do.

I defy you to find one nfl guy who after the draft says "we left a lot of things on the table and didn't really get the players we wanted."

doesn't happen.

TonyR
05-01-2012, 10:31 AM
Tannehill ran a pro style offense. Osweiler run a college spread "inflate my numbers" offense.

Yeah, stat comps like that are "interesting" but they don't really tell you a whole lot. Can't really compare QB prospects that way.

Bmore Manning
05-01-2012, 10:32 AM
Xanders said yesterday Hillman would not have been they with #87. Was he covering his asrse who knows. But teams call other teams all the time afterwards to discuss who they would have taken where and when

I hear the Jets were vivid Irvin went at #15. I think they wanted him as a suprise pick . They are in desprate need for a true pass rusher

That's very interesting. Didn't they say multiple GMs called and said they were gonna take him?

Drek
05-01-2012, 10:46 AM
Did you know Bolden had two ACLs . One in '09 and the other knee in '11?

He sprained his MCL in '09, tore his ACL in '11.

ah BS. Of course Elway is going to say "we hit everything in the draft, we love it!!" that's what front office people do.

I defy you to find one nfl guy who after the draft says "we left a lot of things on the table and didn't really get the players we wanted."

doesn't happen.
Sure. But other than having to rule out Osweiler as a man crush you can make a good argument that the rest of the draft went ideally well.

We addressed our needs almost directly in order of importance and all with guys you could argue were BPA or close to it on the board at that time.

Wolfe was our first pick, fills our biggest need, and likely doesn't make it much further down the draft board.

Hillman gives Manning the kind of weapon at RB he likes, taking away reliance on an unhealthy, questionable Moreno.

Bolden is a CB with the right size and skill set to play outside in man coverage. He and Porter should go a long way to helping improve our very weak CB play outside of Champ from last year.

Blake is a little older but that works because we can't wait on him to physically or mentally mature. He needs to be our swing guard/backup C from day one and push both Beadles and Walton for time, which he can.

Jackson adds power DE depth that we lack and could also be an interior pass rush option.

Trevathan is a good special teams pickup who covers us in case of DJ's suspension or any LB injury in camp.

Then in the UDFA pool we added more depth to all the positions we could use a large group of camp bodies for.

I'd be surprised if the team hasn't grabbed if in three years we look back and don't see at least two or three real contributors in this draft and probably even one or two from the UDFAs.

baja
05-01-2012, 10:49 AM
He sprained his MCL in '09, tore his ACL in '11.

Same knee?

Bmore Manning
05-01-2012, 10:50 AM
He sprained his MCL in '09, tore his ACL in '11.


Sure. But other than having to rule out Osweiler as a man crush you can make a good argument that the rest of the draft went ideally well.

We addressed our needs almost directly in order of importance and all with guys you could argue were BPA or close to it on the board at that time.

Wolfe was our first pick, fills our biggest need, and likely doesn't make it much further down the draft board.

Hillman gives Manning the kind of weapon at RB he likes, taking away reliance on an unhealthy, questionable Moreno.

Bolden is a CB with the right size and skill set to play outside in man coverage. He and Porter should go a long way to helping improve our very weak CB play outside of Champ from last year.

Blake is a little older but that works because we can't wait on him to physically or mentally mature. He needs to be our swing guard/backup C from day one and push both Beadles and Walton for time, which he can.

Jackson adds power DE depth that we lack and could also be an interior pass rush option.

Trevathan is a good special teams pickup who covers us in case of DJ's suspension or any LB injury in camp.

Then in the UDFA pool we added more depth to all the positions we could use a large group of camp bodies for.

I'd be surprised if the team hasn't grabbed if in three years we look back and don't see at least two or three real contributors in this draft and probably even one or two from the UDFAs.

Minus NT where I don't see a long term solution..

Tombstone RJ
05-01-2012, 10:59 AM
IMH the Broncos wanted DeCastro (spelling?) in the first and Martin and Wolfe in the second. The draft didn't go as planned so they ended up with Wolfe, Osweiler and Hillman.

That's what I think happened. Osweiler would have been there in the third.

pricejj
05-01-2012, 11:00 AM
Minus NT where I don't see a long term solution..

Thompson would have been a good pickup in the 3rd, who I think is similar to Bunkley...but then we would have to do without Hillman, who I really like.

Bmore Manning
05-01-2012, 11:01 AM
IMH the Broncos wanted DeCastro (spelling?) in the first and Martin and Wolfe in the second. The draft didn't go as planned so they ended up with Wolfe, Osweiler and Hillman.

That's what I think happened. Osweiler would have been there in the third.

Which Martin? Mike Martin..

Tombstone RJ
05-01-2012, 11:02 AM
Which Martin? Mike Martin..

The RB from Boise State.

Bmore Manning
05-01-2012, 11:03 AM
Thompson would have been a good pickup in the 3rd, who I think is similar to Bunkley...but then we would have to do with Hillman, who I really like.

Yeah.. I would have taken Chapman had Indy not taken him. But I like Jean-Baptiste and thought he would have been a good UDFA pick up.. But Baltimore grabbed him. What about the BYU kid did anybody grab him?

pricejj
05-01-2012, 11:04 AM
IMH the Broncos wanted DeCastro (spelling?) in the first and Martin and Wolfe in the second. The draft didn't go as planned so they ended up with Wolfe, Osweiler and Hillman.

That's what I think happened. Osweiler would have been there in the third.

Not true. DeCastro was never supposed to stick around until #24. He was probably the best OL in this draft...typically that guy goes anywhere #15-#20.

I think the guys they hoped on falling to #25 were Poe, Brockers, Kirkpatrick, and maybe Martin. I'm glad we picked Wolfe out of that group (plus Bolden).

Bmore Manning
05-01-2012, 11:04 AM
The RB from Boise State.

I don't think they wanted him bad enough, they passed on him..

Tombstone RJ
05-01-2012, 11:05 AM
It could have been a home run draft with Decastro, Martin, Wolfe and Osweiler with the first 4 picks. That would have been cool.

Dedhed
05-01-2012, 11:24 AM
Tannehill ran a pro style offense. Osweiler run a college spread "inflate my numbers" offense.

So did Cam Newton, RGIII, and a bevy of other recent prospects. Holding the college offense against a prospect in this day and age is silly. You look at the things QBs do and make a determination of whether the talent will translate in the system you envision using them in.

Osweiler has all the physical tools, throws the ball accurately with anticipation, moves extremely well in and out of the pocket, and is extremely young. Of course he has a ton to learn and will need time to develop the skills that NFL QBs need to use to run a pro style offense, but to discount a guy simply because he was in a system that pro teams don't use is short sighted.

Drek
05-01-2012, 11:25 AM
Minus NT where I don't see a long term solution..

Sure, but with Bannan and Warren already penciled in at NT and Vickerson having the flexability to play NT I'd bet they feel ok for 2012. Plus they do really like Garland apparently who is a NT type if he can ramp the weight back up.

Everything else addressed 2012 needs. Not holes on the 2012 team that needed starters per se, but places the team needed additional depth and camp competition. To that end they can wait until next year to fill NT.

IMH the Broncos wanted DeCastro (spelling?) in the first and Martin and Wolfe in the second. The draft didn't go as planned so they ended up with Wolfe, Osweiler and Hillman.

That's what I think happened. Osweiler would have been there in the third.

I think they viewed Osweiler as the #57 pick from very early on in the process, knowing it was something of an overpick but he was "their guy". People need to get used to that though, Elway is going to soak up a lot of value in the QB position. I wouldn't be surprised to see a mid-round pick used on QB again next year, and then when Manning hangs it up in several more years they'll probably give Osweiler's development a critical eye to decide just how early they're drafting in another QB, with the latest being mid-round again.

You can tell the last thing Elway wants is an unstable QB future in Denver, especially now that he pushed Tebow out the door. His nightmare right now has got to be Manning only lasting a year or two while Tebow matures and takes over in NY. He can't afford not to have a long term strategy at QB because if at any point in the next half decade or so Denver looks weak at QB and Tebow is succeeding elsewhere Elway will get crucified.

Dedhed
05-01-2012, 11:27 AM
Not true. DeCastro was never supposed to stick around until #24. He was probably the best OL in this draft...typically that guy goes anywhere #15-#20.

I think the guys they hoped on falling to #25 were Poe, Brockers, Kirkpatrick, and maybe Martin. I'm glad we picked Wolfe out of that group (plus Bolden).

Martin doesn't belong on that list; he fell past #25, and was still on the board @31.

delany
05-01-2012, 11:35 AM
It is easy to write off Brock as a 'man-crush' or the BFF of Jack. IMO, I think selecting a QBOTF is as critical as any other need you could identify for a win-now team if your ultimate goal is to ensure the long-term success of the franchise. Which is exactly what a GM should be focusing on.

Brock is a young prospect with great measurables and upside and is given the amazing opportunity to learn at the feet of a future HOFer. Outside of sucking so bad we pick in the top 5 or find another golden horseshoe with a Manning-type as a FA...what other path is there to ensure continuity at the most critical position in the game than expend an immediate, valuable resource on a long-term problem?

I think you can argue Brock as the type of prospect, that YOU would assess as worthy of the investment. However, making the investment now for the future makes a ton of sense for a FO that is more worried about the macro view of the Denver Broncos.

We are not the Chiefs.

Tombstone RJ
05-01-2012, 11:40 AM
So did Cam Newton, RGIII, and a bevy of other recent prospects. Holding the college offense against a prospect in this day and age is silly. You look at the things QBs do and make a determination of whether the talent will translate in the system you envision using them in.

Osweiler has all the physical tools, throws the ball accurately with anticipation, moves extremely well in and out of the pocket, and is extremely young. Of course he has a ton to learn and will need time to develop the skills that NFL QBs need to use to run a pro style offense, but to discount a guy simply because he was in a system that pro teams don't use is short sighted.

fair enough but those QBs you listed had more playing time than Osweiler so there was more game tape on them. He's another argument against Osweiler: who knows how he would of done had he not entered the draft. That is, if he went back to ASU for one more year with a new coach and possibly a new offense, he might just has sucked real, real bad.

Dedhed
05-01-2012, 11:49 AM
fair enough but those QBs you listed had more playing time than Osweiler so there was more game tape on them. He's another argument against Osweiler: who knows how he would of done had he not entered the draft. That is, if he went back to ASU for one more year with a new coach and possibly a new offense, he might just has sucked real, real bad.

Sure, but those players were/are also expected to start from day 1. Osweiler is going to have at least a year in the Broncos system before he's asked to be the guy.

They got a very young guy who's tools they love who they can develop exactly how they want to. I think your argument works against your point. Another year in school would only serve to further entrench him in an offense that isn't going to be run in the NFL. Much better to get him now while he's still raw, and develop him exactly how you want to.

The "he might have sucked under a new coach" argument is completely specious and makes no point.

Tombstone RJ
05-01-2012, 11:52 AM
Sure, but those players were/are also expected to start from day 1. Osweiler is going to have at least a year in the Broncos system before he's asked to be the guy.

They got a very young guy who's tools they love who they can develop exactly how they want to. I think your argument works against your point. Another year in school would only serve to further entrench him in an offense that isn't going to be run in the NFL. Much better to get him now while he's still raw, and develop him exactly how you want to.

The "he might have sucked under a new coach" argument is completely specious and makes no point.

fair enough I hope your right.

Dedhed
05-01-2012, 11:56 AM
fair enough I hope your right.

Me too.

BroncoBen
05-01-2012, 12:03 PM
It could have been a home run draft with Decastro, Martin, Wolfe and Osweiler with the first 4 picks. That would have been cool.

“If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we’d all have a merry Christmas”

We don't know and probability never will what the Broncos draft board looked like.

Lets just go with the picks the Broncos made and hope for the best.

Tombstone RJ
05-01-2012, 12:13 PM
“If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we’d all have a merry Christmas”

We don't know and probability never will what the Broncos draft board looked like.

Lets just go with the picks the Broncos made and hope for the best.

I am speculating on what the Broncos wanted as opposed to what the Broncos got. Their two trade downs in the first and then their trade back up later in the draft leads me to believe that the Broncos settled for a few picks like Blake and Hillman rather than got their top prospects like Martin and Decastro. Of couse this is just my hindesight speculation as well.

Dedhed
05-01-2012, 12:22 PM
I am speculating on what the Broncos wanted as opposed to what the Broncos got. Their two trade downs in the first and then their trade back up later in the draft leads me to believe that the Broncos settled for a few picks like Blake and Hillman rather than got their top prospects like Martin and Decastro.
I would like to think they would have jumped on Decastro in a heartbeat if he made it to #25, but the Broncos passed on Martin twice. If they liked him at all they would have taken him.

DENVERDUI55
05-01-2012, 01:09 PM
3 things I didn't like. Not trading up to grab DeCastro. Getting bent over in trades and the Brock O pick.

pricejj
05-01-2012, 01:39 PM
I would like to think they would have jumped on Decastro in a heartbeat if he made it to #25, but the Broncos passed on Martin twice. If they liked him at all they would have taken him.

Yes, you are correct. That's why all this nonsense from Dmac on 104.3 about Martin "being their guy", is a bunch of hooey. Dmac = uninformed drama queen

Requiem
05-01-2012, 01:52 PM
If four of these picks play out their rookie contracts with the team, I'd be impressed.

BroncoBeavis
05-01-2012, 02:36 PM
Sure, but those players were/are also expected to start from day 1. Osweiler is going to have at least a year in the Broncos system before he's asked to be the guy.

They got a very young guy who's tools they love who they can develop exactly how they want to. I think your argument works against your point. Another year in school would only serve to further entrench him in an offense that isn't going to be run in the NFL. Much better to get him now while he's still raw, and develop him exactly how you want to.

The "he might have sucked under a new coach" argument is completely specious and makes no point.

The problem in this is in your use of the phrase "Broncos System"

The Broncos System with Peyton will look nothing like any system they would (or could) run without him. Part of the Colts' problems this year came from trying to translate Peyton's way to a QB who isn't Peyton Manning (and who is?).

When it's time for the QBOTF to take over, Peyton Manning's system no longer makes much sense, since it's so dependent on having Peyton Manning making reads. That's far too much to expect from any old rook coming in off the bench. And probably too much for 90% of QB's in the league.

CEH
05-01-2012, 02:40 PM
Based on who they were projecting on twitter and on the radio i.e. smokescreen from DV in Lamar Miller and them selecting Hillman in the thrid, IMO the logical target was David Wilson. There were other bigger backs to take in the 3rd or 4th round but to select a scat bact like Hillman tells me they were looking for speed rather than power in their RB selection.

Agamemnon
05-01-2012, 02:58 PM
The problem in this is in your use of the phrase "Broncos System"

The Broncos System with Peyton will look nothing like any system they would (or could) run without him. Part of the Colts' problems this year came from trying to translate Peyton's way to a QB who isn't Peyton Manning (and who is?).

When it's time for the QBOTF to take over, Peyton Manning's system no longer makes much sense, since it's so dependent on having Peyton Manning making reads. That's far too much to expect from any old rook coming in off the bench. And probably too much for 90% of QB's in the league.

Especially when one of the knocks against Osweiler is his inability to read defenses. That would seem to imply he will likely never be a QB capable of running the Manning offense.

baja
05-01-2012, 03:16 PM
Especially when one of the knocks against Osweiler is his inability to read defenses. That would seem to imply he will likely never be a QB capable of running the Manning offense.

Oh ya he could never learn that...

Drek
05-01-2012, 03:25 PM
Oh ya he could never learn that...

Obviously not, after all our last QBOTF couldn't have possibly learnt it. Why would Osweiler be any different?

Drunken.Broncoholic
05-01-2012, 03:29 PM
You guys are right. The QB before never learned it.

errand
05-01-2012, 03:46 PM
This thread was derailed on page 1 by Errand. And you're right, the mods won't do anything about it.

....find a post by me on page 1 of this thread douche bag.

Agamemnon
05-01-2012, 03:49 PM
Oh ya he could never learn that...

No QB in the league seems to be able to do what Manning does, so betting on a prospect with that as a noted weakness to do so is some long odds...

baja
05-01-2012, 04:20 PM
Obviously not, after all our last QBOTF couldn't have possibly learnt it. Why would Osweiler be any different?

Which player for the two is closest to becoming a prototype nil pocket passer?

Which player is most likely to never be a prototypical NFL pocket passer?

baja
05-01-2012, 04:23 PM
No QB in the league seems to be able to do what Manning does, so betting on a prospect with that as a noted weakness to do so is some long odds...

They are not trying to make him into Manning II Just like they never thought they would find an Elway II.

When Manning is done hopefully it will be the Osweller era.

Agamemnon
05-01-2012, 04:24 PM
Which player for the two is closest to becoming a prototype nil pocket passer?

Which player is most likely to never be a prototypical NFL pocket passer?

We were talking about reading defenses. Osweiler struggled to read college defenses for ****'s sake. Seriously Tebow is light years ahead of him that department. And really, if you think Osweiler looks like a prototypical NFL pocket passer you are nuts. Go watch actual clips of him playing. Hilarious!

Agamemnon
05-01-2012, 04:25 PM
They are not trying to make him into Manning II Just like they never thought they would find an Elway II.

When Manning is done hopefully it will be the Osweller era.

It may be, but it won't be with the same offense as Manning. Count on it.

baja
05-01-2012, 04:26 PM
We were talking about reading defenses. Osweiler struggled to read college defenses for ****'s sake. Seriously Tebow is light years ahead of him that department. And really, if you think Osweiler looks like a prototypical NFL pocket passer you are nuts. Go watch actual clips of him playing. Hilarious!



at some point in time are we going to stop talking about Tebow and what he might have been for the Broncos.

Agamemnon
05-01-2012, 04:28 PM
at some point in time are we going to stop talking about Tebow and what he might have been for the Broncos.

We are talking about Osweiler. Dude is not a prototypical pocket passer and struggles to read defenses. He was drafted based on his size, arm, and potential, nothing else.

Oh and his friendship with Jack. :~ohyah!:

Tombstone RJ
05-01-2012, 05:09 PM
I would like to think they would have jumped on Decastro in a heartbeat if he made it to #25, but the Broncos passed on Martin twice. If they liked him at all they would have taken him.

I think the Broncos traded out of 25 when Decastro was taken by the hated stellers and then the Broncos traded back to 36 thinking Martin's value was there but the Bucs ended up taking Martin.

I of course have no idea how trades work but I seriously doubt the Broncos asked the Bucs who they were going to take, but who knows? Perhaps the Bucs traded up and the Broncos knew they wanted Martin.

Drek
05-01-2012, 05:22 PM
at some point in time are we going to stop talking about Tebow and what he might have been for the Broncos.

You sure? People still haven't stopped talking about Ed Reed and he never even put on a Broncos uniform, let alone started and won games.

If Tebow realizes even 80% of his potential as a player we'll NEVER stop talking about Tim Tebow.

baja
05-01-2012, 05:28 PM
You sure? People still haven't stopped talking about Ed Reed and he never even put on a Broncos uniform, let alone started and won games.

If Tebow realizes even 80% of his potential as a player we'll NEVER stop talking about Tim Tebow.

I should have added on every thread. ;D

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-01-2012, 05:31 PM
You sure? People still haven't stopped talking about Ed Reed and he never even put on a Broncos uniform, let alone started and won games.

If Tebow realizes even 80% of his potential as a player we'll NEVER stop talking about Tim Tebow.

We certainly know you won't.

Glad Old Guy's warning was heeded. This is not a Tebow thread.