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View Full Version : Guys.. there are still a lot of solid players.


Dexter
04-26-2012, 08:29 PM
I hate to be the one starting another thread, and I wasn't a huge fan of the second trade, but there are a ton of really good football players left that I thought may be first rounders.

1) Peter Konz
2) Cordy Glenn
3) Kendall Reyes
4) Jerel Worthy
5) Devon still
6) Lamar Miller
7) Stephen Hill
8) Janoris Jenkins
9) Derek Wolfe
10) Fleener
11) Mychael Kendricks


I'm probably missing some.. I don't think we should really freak out. Its a bummer not to have a pick tonight, but there are still a lot of good players left.

snowspot66
04-26-2012, 08:45 PM
I saw a ton of people on this very board advocating for damn near each one of those players at 25.

g6matty
04-26-2012, 08:47 PM
zack brown

barryr
04-26-2012, 08:49 PM
I hate to be the one starting another thread, and I wasn't a huge fan of the second trade, but there are a ton of really good football players left that I thought may be first rounders.

1) Peter Konz
2) Cordy Glenn
3) Kendall Reyes
4) Jerel Worthy
5) Devon still
6) Lamar Miller
7) Stephen Hill
8) Janoris Jenkins
9) Derek Wolfe
10) Fleener
11) Mychael Kendricks


I'm probably missing some.. I don't think we should really freak out. Its a bummer not to have a pick tonight, but there are still a lot of good players left.

I only like the ones in bold. David is another guy to consider as well as Thompson.

OBF1
04-26-2012, 08:51 PM
Stephen Hill is 1st round talent.

Vegas_Bronco
04-26-2012, 08:53 PM
Konz is weak...18 reps is pretty weak for an olineman.

DBroncos4life
04-26-2012, 08:54 PM
No some 90s draft chart says our draft is a bust.

Chris
04-26-2012, 08:55 PM
Konz is weak...18 reps is pretty weak for an olineman.

He did 23 at his pro day.

errand
04-26-2012, 08:56 PM
I saw a ton of people on this very board advocating for damn near each one of those players at 25.

Exactly....and now we could very well end up with 2-3 of them.....

barryr
04-26-2012, 08:56 PM
Konz is weak...18 reps is pretty weak for an olineman.

His health is a concern as well. Explains his drop.

Kaylore
04-26-2012, 08:56 PM
Konz is weak...18 reps is pretty weak for an olineman.

He has 33 inch arms so it's harder for him to lift as much. Lifting isn't a great correlation of how strong an offensive lineman is.

Heyneck
04-26-2012, 09:06 PM
The thing I think we are missing out on is that thanks to the new Draft format... tomorrow in essence is like the first round again. It give teams time to regroup and revalue the players left. We are in a very good spot in my opinion because like it was previously mentioned, there is about 10 good players left with 1st round talent.

We could still trade back 2-4 spots and get a really good compensation and a great player. Just my 2 cents of what could happen... seeing how the FO is currently operating.

My personal choice? Take either Worthy or Still... if both of them are off... go for Hill or Fleener. Last case scenario where we don't have anyone of real impact at that spot... go for Jenkins. Yes the dude is a Pothead... has kids but by all accounts is a great father. The dude is insanely talented (top 15) and could turn and mature for the best. Remember they are just kids. Warren Sap stoped using the devil's lettuce and turned into a HoFer.

ZONA
04-26-2012, 09:10 PM
I saw a ton of people on this very board advocating for damn near each one of those players at 25.

Yup, maybe even a few of the dudes going ape **** over losing value, lol.

ZONA
04-26-2012, 09:12 PM
Konz is weak...18 reps is pretty weak for an olineman.

You must have missed the Konz thread a week ago. He did more reps in his proday. At least if you're going to complain, get your facts updated.

Bronco Rob
04-26-2012, 10:15 PM
Jerel Worthy
Devon Still
Kendall Reyes
Stephen Hill
Derek Wolfe
Lavonte David
LaMichael James
Lamar Miller

McDman
04-26-2012, 10:17 PM
No! We are screwed and won't win a game now!

Killericon
04-26-2012, 10:51 PM
If we had taken Still or Worthy at 25, we'd be happy. If we take one of them at 36, Xanders should be fired.

Never change, OM.

Bacchus
04-26-2012, 10:52 PM
If we had taken Still or Worthy at 25, we'd be happy. If we take one of them at 36, Xanders should be fired.

Never change, OM.

People are just pissed they wasted three hours watching the draft.

TD4HOF
04-27-2012, 03:35 AM
I waited 3 hrs, saw the 2nd trade down and called it a night. Today will be fun and yesterday a vague recollection.

Drek
04-27-2012, 03:42 AM
I hate to be the one starting another thread, and I wasn't a huge fan of the second trade, but there are a ton of really good football players left that I thought may be first rounders.


Sure. The FO can still get a damn good player. I don't think anyone is saying they can't.

The problem is the draft value received. New England paid a full round higher price for moving from 27 to 21 than they paid us to go from 31 to 25. Minnesota paid Baltimore more by almost a full round value to go from 35 to 29. So compared to both of those trades we got bad value when we moved from 25 to 31.

We then got FAR WORSE value when we moved from 31 to 36, by only exchanging our late 4th from the Pats for the 4th rounder Tampa got from Jacksonville.

If the team had simply held out for the 4th from Tampa straight up and kept #126 you wouldn't see nearly the fan outrage and that deal would be a near 1:1 value proposition with what Baltimore got form Minnesota.

Worse still, anyone paying attention knew who Tampa wanted (Martin) and who they were leaping up over (Giants at 32). We actually had them by the balls if we negotiated tough. Instead we took the weakest compensation I've ever seen a team get for trading out of the first round.

Its not a massive **** up, but it hints to an underlying inability to assess the value of our own assets. That is the real worrisome part.

55CrushEm
04-27-2012, 04:05 AM
I'll be really upset if we take Fleener. I just don't get the talk.....we have 4 fing TE's on our roster already.

Traveler
04-27-2012, 04:26 AM
I'll be really upset if we take Fleener. I just don't get the talk.....we have 4 fing TE's on our roster already.

This!

cutthemdown
04-27-2012, 04:42 AM
I saw a ton of people on this very board advocating for damn near each one of those players at 25.

Yep! I think it's pretty funny how fans get so upset. Broncos can get still get a starter. Maybe Konz, or Reyes, etc etc. I think Reyes could play all over on the dline.

fontaine
04-27-2012, 04:45 AM
Sure. The FO can still get a damn good player. I don't think anyone is saying they can't.

The problem is the draft value received. New England paid a full round higher price for moving from 27 to 21 than they paid us to go from 31 to 25. Minnesota paid Baltimore more by almost a full round value to go from 35 to 29. So compared to both of those trades we got bad value when we moved from 25 to 31.

We then got FAR WORSE value when we moved from 31 to 36, by only exchanging our late 4th from the Pats for the 4th rounder Tampa got from Jacksonville.

If the team had simply held out for the 4th from Tampa straight up and kept #126 you wouldn't see nearly the fan outrage and that deal would be a near 1:1 value proposition with what Baltimore got form Minnesota.

Worse still, anyone paying attention knew who Tampa wanted (Martin) and who they were leaping up over (Giants at 32). We actually had them by the balls if we negotiated tough. Instead we took the weakest compensation I've ever seen a team get for trading out of the first round.

Its not a massive **** up, but it hints to an underlying inability to assess the value of our own assets. That is the real worrisome part.

You do realize GMs and guys in the FO across the league have far more at stake than just fan driven value charts right?

Probably not.

You have no idea of what goes on behind the scenes and how value ratings/charts are different for seperate teams and situations.

ol#7
04-27-2012, 04:58 AM
You do realize GMs and guys in the FO across the league have far more at stake than just fan driven value charts right?

Probably not.

You have no idea of what goes on behind the scenes and how value ratings/charts are different for seperate teams and situations.

You do realize Denver go less in return for trading out of the 25 spot than anyone over the last 20 years right???

No it must be the new magical draft value charts that apparently not every team received ahead of the draft that explains it.

fontaine
04-27-2012, 05:19 AM
You do realize Denver go less in return for trading out of the 25 spot than anyone over the last 20 years right???

No it must be the new magical draft value charts that apparently not every team received ahead of the draft that explains it.

Oh no! We (slightly) missed out on getting the most value!

Get over it already.

ol#7
04-27-2012, 05:26 AM
Oh no! We (slightly) missed out on getting the most value!

Get over it already.

Ummm, our front office got worked, twice. Make it out to be no big deal if you like, but it's a fact.

BroncoInferno
04-27-2012, 05:26 AM
Oh no! We (slightly) missed out on getting the most value!

Get over it already.

Don't bother, fontaine. People always are going to cry about something. With the new CBA, pick value is in the eye of the beholder. I guess these people would rather we stay put and take someone at #31 who we may well have gotten at #36. What Ozzie and Baltimore got at #29 is not at all relevant. There was a specific team willing to pay that price for a specific player. At #31, there wasn't a team willing to give up more based on who was available. I don't get what's so hard to understand about this.

ol#7
04-27-2012, 05:27 AM
Don't bother, fontaine. People always are going to cry about something. With the new CBA, pick value is in the eye of the beholder. I guess these people would rather we stay put and take someone at #31 who we may well have gotten at #36. What Ozzie and Baltimore got at #29 is not at all relevant. There was a specific team willing to pay that price for a specific player. At #31, there wasn't a team willing to give up more based on who was available. I don't get what's so hard to understand about this.

Are you STILL trying to argue your backwards logic? The new CBA makes higher picks MORE valuable not LESS.

Drek
04-27-2012, 05:56 AM
You do realize GMs and guys in the FO across the league have far more at stake than just fan driven value charts right?

Probably not.

You have no idea of what goes on behind the scenes and how value ratings/charts are different for seperate teams and situations.

I don't care about draft value charts. What I care about is that 8 trades were made last night, and the two with the weakest compensation were both involving the Broncos, in both cases they gave up MORE spots than other teams who got better picks did.

This is literally a case of the Broncos just flat out failing to get the value EVERY other team was pulling.

If you called up your broker and told him to sell off half your shares in Apple today, which then led him to sell those shares for 10% less than what EVERYONE else selling Apple shares got on that very same day you probably wouldn't be keeping that broker very long and you just might consider a formal complaint to see if he was doing favors under the table. The Broncos just did that kind of transaction to themselves.

When everyone else wanting to move back settled for $.075 on the dollar Denver took $0.50 on the dollar from New England and then took $0.25 on the dollar from Tampa.

They got hosed.

Drek
04-27-2012, 05:58 AM
Don't bother, fontaine. People always are going to cry about something. With the new CBA, pick value is in the eye of the beholder. I guess these people would rather we stay put and take someone at #31 who we may well have gotten at #36. What Ozzie and Baltimore got at #29 is not at all relevant. There was a specific team willing to pay that price for a specific player. At #31, there wasn't a team willing to give up more based on who was available. I don't get what's so hard to understand about this.

Yes, with the new CBA the 29th pick is now worth more than the 25th pick. Awesome math skills on display here.

fontaine
04-27-2012, 05:58 AM
Don't bother, fontaine. People always are going to cry about something. With the new CBA, pick value is in the eye of the beholder. I guess these people would rather we stay put and take someone at #31 who we may well have gotten at #36. What Ozzie and Baltimore got at #29 is not at all relevant. There was a specific team willing to pay that price for a specific player. At #31, there wasn't a team willing to give up more based on who was available. I don't get what's so hard to understand about this.

That's what I don't get? What's the point in taking the worst case scenario and going crazy with it when they . . . . . havent' . . . . . . actually .. . . . selected anyone . . yet!

Do the Broncos have more picks now with the players they need at DL/RB/OL? Hell yes!
Did we extract absolutely maximum value in trades? No.
Were we completely jacked up, like say Cleveland? Hell no.

They still have to go and do all the work in actually selecting the best players to fit what they're doing (Reyes/Martin/Miller etc) but enough with the constant complaining.

BroncoInferno
04-27-2012, 06:00 AM
Are you STILL trying to argue your backwards logic? The new CBA makes higher picks MORE valuable not LESS.

No. It makes the value more fluid. It depends on how bad a team wants a player versus the old system where the trade chart locked in value for a pick. Everyone keeps crying about what the Ravens got, but no one is considering that the other trades that were made were all below the old trade chart value.

ol#7
04-27-2012, 06:01 AM
That's what I don't get? What's the point in taking the worst case scenario and going crazy with it when they . . . . . havent' . . . . . . actually .. . . . selected anyone . . yet!

Do the Broncos have more picks now with the players they need at DL/RB/OL? Hell yes!
Did we extract absolutely maximum value in trades? No.
Were we completely jacked up, like say Cleveland? Hell no.

They still have to go and do all the work in actually selecting the best players to fit what they're doing (Reyes/Martin/Miller etc) but enough with the constant complaining.

Your right about 1 thing, this is that dreamy period before we draft Osweiler tonight and things get broken.

fontaine
04-27-2012, 06:01 AM
I don't care about draft value charts. What I care about is that 8 trades were made last night, and the two with the weakest compensation were both involving the Broncos, in both cases they gave up MORE spots than other teams who got better picks did.

Yes we know, you've complained about it often enough and will no doubt continue to.

This is how pointless "waaah, waaaah, we missed out on value" posts are when the player is yet to be selected: Say we got maximum value and then went out and completely reached for the next:

Alphonso Smith, Richard Quinn, Zane Beadles and so on.

fontaine
04-27-2012, 06:02 AM
Your right about 1 thing, this is that dreamy period before we draft Osweiler tonight and things get broken.

Hilarious! Yeah I'm not a big fan of this guy either.

BroncoInferno
04-27-2012, 06:02 AM
Your right about 1 thing, this is that dreamy period before we draft Osweiler tonight and things get broken.

If that happens, I will be crying right along with you.

socalorado
04-27-2012, 06:03 AM
I am glad they traded out. DEN needs to adress a bunch of positions with value and they now have the ammo to do it. I would have liked to see another 3rd rounder though.
I think when its all said and done, DEN will have 4 picks in the next 35!

Drek
04-27-2012, 06:09 AM
Yes we know, you've complained about it often enough and will no doubt continue to.

This is how pointless "waaah, waaaah, we missed out on value" posts are when the player is yet to be selected: Say we got maximum value and then went out and completely reached for the next:

Alphonso Smith, Richard Quinn, Zane Beadles and so on.

You really are just a complete idiot aren't you. Not a month ago you had a hissy fit about me and others talking about the FO's failings to date in free agency, now we're only talking about an already occured even (losing value on two draft trades) and you still bitch and whine.

Should we all just sit on this board and circle jerk about how great it is that Elway is back running the Broncos and how awesome its going to be when we go 16-0 and walk through the playoffs to a Super Bowl title? Is that your view of acceptable discourse on a forum designed around discussing the Broncos' decisions in real time?

Maybe you should get some talcum power for that diaper rash you've been sporting for the last several months.

peacepipe
04-27-2012, 06:14 AM
I wasn't exactly pleased to find out I spent 3 hrs waiting to be told we traded out of the 1st,but it was a great move. considering where we were picking & the fact that thompson,worthy,reyes,still were still on the board made trading down that much better. now I would like to see us trade some of our picks to get another 2nd but we'll see what happens.

fontaine
04-27-2012, 06:22 AM
You really are just a complete idiot aren't you. Not a month ago you had a hissy fit about me and others talking about the FO's failings to date in free agency, now we're only talking about an already occured even (losing value on two draft trades) and you still b**** and whine.

Should we all just sit on this board and circle jerk about how great it is that Elway is back running the Broncos and how awesome its going to be when we go 16-0 and walk through the playoffs to a Super Bowl title? Is that your view of acceptable discourse on a forum designed around discussing the Broncos' decisions in real time?

Maybe you should get some talcum power for that diaper rash you've been sporting for the last several months.

If you don't agree with me and resort to getting personal then you're no better than the other trolls like MacGruder, agamenon that fill up this board with trash.

Lighten up.