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lonestar
04-26-2012, 09:37 AM
Tim Tebow's success dropped Broncos in NFL draft order
Posted: 04/26/2012 01:00:00 AM MDT
Updated: 04/26/2012 08:32:02 AM MDT
By Mike Klis

Somewhere, no doubt in proximity to a spotlight, Tim Tebow is giggling. The No. 25 draft pick was Tebow's parting gift to the Broncos.

The three-day NFL draft starts tonight, with the first round beginning at 6 p.m. The Broncos are expected to make their No. 25 selection around 8 p.m.

"We'll have a group of players we like," said John Elway, the Broncos' executive vice president of football operations. "But because of where we're picking and you don't know how the board will fall, we won't know who we're picking until an hour before our pick. Not an hour before the draft, an hour before we pick."

If not for Tebow, the Broncos may have been picking in the top five for a second consecutive year. They may have been picking closer to 6:30 p.m. They may have been in position to draft another Von Miller.

The Broncos were 1-4 through Week 5 of the 2011 season, seemingly headed for another high draft choice after finishing 4-12 the year before.

Then came Tebow. One improbable victory followed another. The unorthodox Tebow not only led the Broncos to the playoffs, he led them past Pittsburgh in the postseason's first round with an overtime touchdown pass to Demaryius Thomas. That playoff victory qualified the Broncos for the NFL's Elite Eight in 2011 but bottom eight for the subsequent draft in 2012.

Gosh dang, Tebow! Say that to him and he will giggle.

Tebow and the distraction that is Tebowmania were traded to the New York Jets last month after the Broncos signed Peyton Manning, a four-time MVP quarterback whose stardom is based more on proof than faith. Manning was a blockbuster addition from free agency, but anyone expecting the Broncos to get another NFL defensive rookie of the year tonight might be dreaming.

Von Millers are available at No. 2. They're usually gone by No. 25.

"We had the whole draft last year," Elway said. "Now you know you have 24 guys that are going to go in front of you, so trying to figure out who is going to be an impact guy at 25, it's a big difference."

Then again, Broncos coach John Fox may be among the dreamers. He acquired linebacker Jon Beason with the No. 25 pick for Carolina in 2007. Tebow was taken No. 25 in 2010, three slots after Demaryius Thomas. The Broncos wouldn't be upset if they picked up the next Demaryius Thomas tonight. Stephen Hill was Thomas' teammate at Georgia Tech.

Hill is a 6-foot-5 wide receiver who ran the 40-yard dash in 4.36 seconds at the NFL scouting combine in Indianapolis. He averaged 29.3 yards per catch as a junior last season. How does Georgia Tech, with its spread-option offense, keep getting first round-caliber wide receivers?

"It was a pro-style offense when I got there," Thomas said. "I thought about transferring, but it's an offense where as a receiver, you can make big plays. And it's an offense where you learn how to block, which is good for the NFL. I told that to Stephen Hill when I was recruiting him, that if you put the hard work in, you will have big-time success. It's why I stayed there and why Stephen came there."

Hill might be the Broncos' choice if defensive tackles Dontari Poe of Memphis or LSU's Michael Brockers are gone by No. 25. If
Stephen Hill was a wide receiver in an option offense at Georgia Tech but averaged nearly 30 yards per catch last year. (Kevin C. Cox, Getty Images)
Brockers, Poe and Hill are all gone, the Broncos may take Alabama cornerback Dre Kirkpatrick, or one of two more defensive tackles: Jerel Worthy or Kendall Reyes.

This is what the Broncos mean when they say they will take the best available player, even if they recognize defensive tackle is their top position of need. If they don't take a defensive tackle in the first round, the Broncos are almost certain to take one Friday, when the draft conducts the second and third rounds.

As for Friday, the Broncos will look at selecting a running back (Doug Martin, Chris Polk or Terrance Ganaway), quarterback (Nick Foles or Brock Osweiler), kick returner and either a cornerback or defensive tackle, depending on which position isn't addressed in the first round tonight.

That's more needs than picks, which is why trading back from the No. 25 slot for an additional draft choice or two also is a possibility.

"It's fluid," Elway said of the Broncos' strategy.

Dang, that giggling Tebow

Read more: Tim Tebow's success dropped Broncos in NFL draft order - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20482681/tim-tebows-success-dropped-broncos-nfl-draft-order?source=rss#ixzz1tAIQRi8l
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

Kinda wondering why it took so long for someone else to figure this out..

Requiem
04-26-2012, 09:38 AM
Football is a team game. Tebow can go lick Jesus.

Swedish Extrovert
04-26-2012, 09:39 AM
Football is a team game. Tebow can go lick Jesus.

Manning FTW

BroncoBeavis
04-26-2012, 09:40 AM
Football is a team game. Tebow can go lick Jesus.

But OMG Peyton DOEZ NOTHIN BUT WIN TROPHEEZ! LOL

cousinal11
04-26-2012, 09:41 AM
I will take sliding from 11 to 25 in the draft in exchange for the fun we had last year any day of the week. Thanks for the memories Tim, but this is freakin Peyton Manning who replaced you.

Man-Goblin
04-26-2012, 09:42 AM
They are picking about where they should be picking talent wise, and without the success last year I doubt Manning even considers the Broncos.

Shananahan
04-26-2012, 09:43 AM
Every team that didn't beat the Steelers in that game would gladly trade down to do so.

This argument is retarded.

cousinal11
04-26-2012, 09:43 AM
without the success last year I doubt Manning even considers the Broncos.

True dat

broncosteven
04-26-2012, 09:44 AM
I blame Marion Barber

CEH
04-26-2012, 09:52 AM
So Tebow throws a slant and DT runs 80 yards.

Doom had a play of the game with his strip of Big Ben at the DEN 45 with 25 secs to go.

It was a team win. Had the offense just scored more than 3 points in the 2nd half it doesn't go to OT or the defense stop one more drive and FG

BroncoBeavis
04-26-2012, 09:55 AM
So Tebow throws a slant and DT runs 80 yards. Seems about right in line with how it it it at FLO with Harvin

Doom had a play of the game with his strip of Big Ben at the DEN 45 with 25 secs to go.

It was a team win. Had the offense just scored more than 3 points in the 2nd half it doesn't go to OT

Figures. Both PIT and DEN score above their season averages, and the hatas still say it was all about the defense.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-26-2012, 09:56 AM
Figures. Both PIT and DEN score above their season averages, and the hatas still say it was all about the defense.

Well as exciting as that game was, and as fun as it was to watch Tim play, generally defenses dont play cover zero on a first and ten from the 20 in OT

CEH
04-26-2012, 09:57 AM
Figures. Both PIT and DEN score above their season averages, and the hatas still say it was all about the defense.

Said it was a team win. Both sides made plays when they had to. Once again your next good post with be your first

Kaylore
04-26-2012, 09:59 AM
How dare he worsen our draft status by beating the Steelers in one of the most glorious memories I'll have of Broncos football until my brain goes! How dare he!

lonestar
04-26-2012, 09:59 AM
yet if we played a good game agsint them and lost how many folks would have been less happy..

Considering we lost options on 8 draft choices with each of our original picks..

I would have been just as satisfied with the season and what Tebow and the TEAM accomplished had they not won the game..

But then I've always looked at thing long term..

Just maybe one or more of those impact players that John is wanting this year would have been there at 18..

Or maybe even being able to trade that pick for a boat load of others fill our bucket list of players we need for the upcoming season..

but no y'all are giddy about winning what turned out to be a meaningless game..

Rohirrim
04-26-2012, 10:01 AM
Watching that OT play to Thomas was worth it. ;D

ward63
04-26-2012, 10:01 AM
I'd rather win and enjoy a 8-8 season with a playoff victory (first in A LONG time), than say...well, we have a top 5-10 pick. I don't want to be Cleveland and be glad to at least be getting a good player every year.

bronco militia
04-26-2012, 10:11 AM
Somewhere, no doubt in proximity to a spotlight, Mike Klis is giggling. The No. 25 draft pick was Tebow's parting gift to the Broncos.

fixed.....this guy is still pissed the broncos traded away his meal ticket

BroncoBeavis
04-26-2012, 10:14 AM
Well as exciting as that game was, and as fun as it was to watch Tim play, generally defenses dont play cover zero on a first and ten from the 20 in OT

They do if they can't stop your rushing attack and they think you're going to run it.

MagicHef
04-26-2012, 10:16 AM
If better picks are the goal, we probably shouldn't have gotten Manning.

lonestar
04-26-2012, 10:19 AM
If better picks are the goal, we probably shouldn't have gotten Manning.

Actually once you get the team loaded with talent then you bring in Manning to win consistently..

Then you draft BPA all the time and becasue your not having to go for a couple of spots each year you have the luxury of trading back for more picks in rounds 1-3 and maybe 4 if the draft is deep..

BroncoBeavis
04-26-2012, 10:19 AM
Said it was a team win. Both sides made plays when they had to. Once again your next good post with be your first

Tebow threw the ball that won the game. Credit where credit is due. KO would've pissed that game away 6 different ways.

You can't balance it out with a "Well if Doom wouldda missed this play, etc etc."

You could just as easily say "If Champ wouldda caught that, or if Willis wouldn't have fumbled that" there would have been no OT.

The team that was 4-12 and 1-4 without Tebow on the field beat the defending AFC Champs in the playoffs. Please stop with the "He was just one of 53 guys" crap.

RedEyedJeti
04-26-2012, 10:22 AM
Who's Tebow?

CEH
04-26-2012, 10:24 AM
Tebow threw the ball that won the game. Credit where credit is due. KO would've pissed that game away 6 different ways.

You can't balance it out with a "Well if Doom wouldda missed this play, etc etc."

You could just as easily say "If Champ wouldda caught that, or if Willis wouldn't have fumbled that" there would have been no OT.

The team that was 4-12 and 1-4 without Tebow on the field beat the defending AFC Champs in the playoffs. Please stop with the "He was just one of 53 guys" crap.

OK Tebow beat the Pitts Steelers. Answer me this

So how much credit does DT get? Zero for running 60 yards and stiff arming the tackler?

Are you saying that the Doom play was not pivotal to getting to OT?

1st and 10 at the Denver 45 with 25 seconds left and he strips Big Ben and pushes Pitt out of a potential FG attempt

You read what you want to read when it comes to Tebow

Who won the NYJ game? Tebow or Andre Goodman?

RedEyedJeti
04-26-2012, 10:24 AM
Tebow threw the ball that won the game. Credit where credit is due. KO would've pissed that game away 6 different ways.

You can't balance it out with a "Well if Doom wouldda missed this play, etc etc."

You could just as easily say "If Champ wouldda caught that, or if Willis wouldn't have fumbled that" there would have been no OT.

The team that was 4-12 and 1-4 without Tebow on the field beat the defending AFC Champs in the playoffs. Please stop with the "He was just one of 53 guys" crap.

I bet he even called that play.. :clown:

Hulamau
04-26-2012, 10:26 AM
True dat

True we needed a spark to attract Manning to show that we had a core that was improving.

However, we might have been better off longer term had we dropped two or three of those 'miracle' wins we really should have lost and still shown the kind of defensive improvements to keep the games close and down to the wire consistently even with Tebows .. ahem .. marginal passing prowess.

We could have wound up drafting closer to 12 to 16 range rather than 25 and still may well have landed Manning with the improved defensive performance. Remember it was Elway and Foxes presence primarly that got Manning to sign here.

Tebow provided a spark no doubt and his will to win in the closing minutes did help rescue a few games. But his first three quarters of play insured we would require a miracle rescue as well.

Im not so sure we would have been that much worse of a record even if Tebow hadnt started. This team had a brand new coach and new DC and all new system coming in with NO offseason contact even allowed!

That slow start wasnt only on Orton but also on the team trying to gel and get up to speed as well as rookies like Von adapting to NFL speed. by game 6 or so the D started coming together and that would likely have happened at some point with even Orton or possibly Quinn back there (we'll never know about Quinn if given a chance?) . Neither of those guys was the answer for sure, and Orton melted down in the face of Tebowmania distractions but they might have played marginally well which overall is what Tebow did too.

But this team with a coach like Fox and an improving D would likely have played a decent amount of competitive ball last year even without Tebow and still might have attracted Manning and gotten significantly better options from all 7 rounds of this draft with moer like a 6-10 to 7-9 record or whatever?

I loved the excitment too, but when Tebow was shipped out ( thankfully for a guy like Manning) the whole experience turned out to be a bit like kissing a pretty sister.

Was fun while it lasted but leaves one with some mixed feelings if not some regrets long term.

Dropping to the 25 pick with Tebow was worth it only if Tebow stayed and improved enough to keep us in the hunt year after year ... all highly speculative goals with Tebow behind center long term. But now that we hit hte jackpot with Manning, it does make our job of winning soon in the next few years harder still when we are reloading with that many of the better players already gone when we draft.

We scored with Von and Franklin last year drafting high up in each round, and most teams who need so much help are well served long term with a couple years of top ten picks before getting back on track, (unless you are as inept as the Fade and Queens have historically been :)

Its okay to celebrate the joys and fun of last season while also acknowledging the long term hamstring it might have cost our restoration efforts in the process.

MagicHef
04-26-2012, 10:26 AM
Actually once you get the team loaded with talent then you bring in Manning to win consistently..

Then you draft BPA all the time and becasue your not having to go for a couple of spots each year you have the luxury of trading back for more picks in rounds 1-3 and maybe 4 if the draft is deep..

It sure would be nifty to be able to decide which season would work best to sign that HOF QB. It's not like that was an opportunity that has come around once in the history of the NFL.

RedEyedJeti
04-26-2012, 10:27 AM
I think Beavis has a mancrush!

lonestar
04-26-2012, 11:26 AM
True we needed a spark to attract Manning to show that we had a core that was improving.

However, we might have been better off longer term had we dropped two or three of those 'miracle' wins we really should have lost and still shown the kind of defensive improvements to keep the games close and down to the wire consistently even with Tebows .. ahem .. marginal passing prowess.

We could have wound up drafting closer to 12 to 16 range rather than 25 and still may well have landed Manning with the improved defensive performance. Remember it was Elway and Foxes presence primarly that got Manning to sign here.

Tebow provided a spark no doubt and his will to win in the closing minutes did help rescue a few games. But his first three quarters of play insured we would require a miracle rescue as well.

Im not so sure we would have been that much worse of a record even if Tebow hadnt started. This team had a brand new coach and new DC and all new system coming in with NO offseason contact even allowed!

That slow start wasnt only on Orton but also on the team trying to gel and get up to speed as well as rookies like Von adapting to NFL speed. by game 6 or so the D started coming together and that would likely have happened at some point with even Orton or possibly Quinn back there (we'll never know about Quinn if given a chance?) . Neither of those guys was the answer for sure, and Orton melted down in the face of Tebowmania distractions but they might have played marginally well which overall is what Tebow did too.

But this team with a coach like Fox and an improving D would likely have played a decent amount of competitive ball last year even without Tebow and still might have attracted Manning and gotten significantly better options from all 7 rounds of this draft with moer like a 6-10 to 7-9 record or whatever?

I loved the excitment too, but when Tebow was shipped out ( thankfully for a guy like Manning) the whole experience turned out to be a bit like kissing a pretty sister.

Was fun while it lasted but leaves one with some mixed feelings if not some regrets long term.

Dropping to the 25 pick with Tevbow was worth it only if Tebow stayed and improved enough to keep us in the hunt year after year ... all highly speculative goals with Tebow behind center long term. But now that we hit hte jackpot with Manning, it does make our job of winning soon in the next few years harder still when we are reloading with that many of the better players already gone when we draft.

Its okay to celebrate the joys and fun of last season while also acknowledging the long term hamstring it might have cost our restoration efforts in the process.

reat post worthy of being seen again..

Black96WS6
04-26-2012, 11:45 AM
I blame Marion Barber

I blame Bob in Kansas City.

Houshyamama
04-26-2012, 11:47 AM
So Tebow throws a slant and DT runs 80 yards.

Doom had a play of the game with his strip of Big Ben at the DEN 45 with 25 secs to go.

It was a team win. Had the offense just scored more than 3 points in the 2nd half it doesn't go to OT or the defense stop one more drive and FG

We both know that wasn't a slant

baja
04-26-2012, 11:50 AM
I will take sliding from 11 to 25 in the draft in exchange for the fun we had last year any day of the week. Thanks for the memories Tim, but this is freakin Peyton Manning who replaced you.


No shiit. Can't believe these complainers. Makes me think they would be better off just getting a memo at the end of the year stating how many games we won. It's 100 % win or lose with these guys they don't seem to care about the game itself.

TheFullTebow
04-26-2012, 11:53 AM
Serves the broncos right for trading the greatest football player of this generation, Go Tebow! Go Jets!

Requiem
04-26-2012, 11:56 AM
Serves the broncos right for trading the greatest football player of this generation, Go Tebow! Go Jets!

http://www.profilebrand.com/funny-pictures/category/people/753_knife-kid-gtfo.gif

Jay3
04-26-2012, 12:18 PM
We both know that wasn't a slant

Traveled almost 25 yards in the air, on a rope. Dat wadn't no slant.

TheFullTebow
04-26-2012, 12:20 PM
http://www.profilebrand.com/funny-pictures/category/people/753_knife-kid-gtfo.gif
http://gettwicetheresults.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/thetruth.jpg

DBroncos4life
04-26-2012, 12:23 PM
Traveled almost 25 yards in the air, on a rope. Dat wadn't no slant.

More like 16 yards. We had the ball on the 20 and he caught it before the 40.

edog24
04-26-2012, 12:27 PM
reat post worthy of being seen again..

Not really. Anyone thinking last year's slow start was due to anything other than Orton was either not watching any games or have the Tebow hate flowing.

Jay3
04-26-2012, 12:28 PM
More like 16 yards. We had the ball on the 20 and he caught it before the 40.

I didn't think it was possible to fail at football and math in so few words, but congratulations.

DBroncos4life
04-26-2012, 12:38 PM
I didn't think it was possible to fail at football and math in so few words, but congratulations.

Yeah my bad I forgot to add the drop back so it was about 21 yards.

gunns
04-26-2012, 01:05 PM
Tebow threw the ball that won the game. Credit where credit is due. KO would've pissed that game away 6 different ways.

You can't balance it out with a "Well if Doom wouldda missed this play, etc etc."

You could just as easily say "If Champ wouldda caught that, or if Willis wouldn't have fumbled that" there would have been no OT.

The team that was 4-12 and 1-4 without Tebow on the field beat the defending AFC Champs in the playoffs. Please stop with the "He was just one of 53 guys" crap.

You know it takes a whole season to get to the end and a whole game to get to the end. It isn't about one play and it's never about 1 player. Anybody who thinks last season was all about Tebow was focused on one player and not the game(s).

Archer81
04-26-2012, 01:10 PM
Last season was unique. We had really ****ty lows, and fantastic highs. As a group they did some pretty awesome things.

And I wouldnt change a damn thing about last season.

:Broncos:

CEH
04-26-2012, 01:11 PM
I went back to look at the pass.It was a good on target pass. I give Tebow credit for throwing a rope. I also give credit to DT for manhandling his man and out running everyone else to the end zone and I also gave credit to Doom for stripping Big Ben on the final drive.

Champ should have caught the INT in the end zone. He usally makes that play

I was in the stands and went on the field after the game so in my mind one of the top 5 games I have ever attended. I said it was a good team win and the Tebowoners need it to be all about Tebow. I don't think he even read the post only responsed because in his mind not enough or all the credit was given to TRT

dbfan21
04-26-2012, 01:17 PM
This is the stupidest article. You would think with the draft tonight, DPO writers could find something more productive to report on.

FAIL

BroncoBeavis
04-26-2012, 01:51 PM
OK Tebow beat the Pitts Steelers. Answer me this

So how much credit does DT get? Zero for running 60 yards and stiff arming the tackler?

Are you saying that the Doom play was not pivotal to getting to OT?

1st and 10 at the Denver 45 with 25 seconds left and he strips Big Ben and pushes Pitt out of a potential FG attempt

You read what you want to read when it comes to Tebow

Who won the NYJ game? Tebow or Andre Goodman?

How come the only negative you point out in the entire PIT game is the offense only scoring 3 in the second half (while the defense allowed 17?) All while ignoring all the other ****ups and missed opportunities, some of which led to the only scoring 3 points.

Requiem
04-26-2012, 01:54 PM
http://gettwicetheresults.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/thetruth.jpg

http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsB/69204-6196.gif

Yeah, we did. We were supposed to fight for the people who couldn't fight for themselves. We were supposed to fight for Timothy.

Butterscotch Stallion
04-26-2012, 01:54 PM
So Tebow throws a slant and DT runs 80 yards.

Doom had a play of the game with his strip of Big Ben at the DEN 45 with 25 secs to go.

It was a team win. Had the offense just scored more than 3 points in the 2nd half it doesn't go to OT or the defense stop one more drive and FG

we win with Tebow it's a team win, we lose with Tebow it's because he can't pass.

I love Denver Bronco fans.

Powderaddict
04-26-2012, 01:55 PM
Wow, that Tebow is a real dick

TDmvp
04-26-2012, 01:58 PM
we win with Tebow it's a team win, we lose with Tebow it's because he can't pass.

I love Denver Bronco fans.




Not being from Denver but being a + 25 year fan of the Broncos I at one point thought their fan base was smarter than average fans.

Over the last 5 year I have been prove wrong repeatedly lol ...


http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/6096/fullretardb.jpg

Butterscotch Stallion
04-26-2012, 01:59 PM
Serves the broncos right for trading the greatest football player of this generation, Go Tebow! Go Jets!

Hey, at least we have Mann....oh wait, just got word that he died of old age...

Jason7730
04-26-2012, 02:04 PM
Stallion, why don't you take your crying ass on over to the the Jets board.........

Requiem
04-26-2012, 02:04 PM
Yeah Stallion! GO HOME.

Kaylore
04-26-2012, 02:04 PM
Not being from Denver but being a + 25 year fan of the Broncos I at one point thought their fan base was smarter than average fans.

Over the last 5 year I have been prove wrong repeatedly lol ...


No, they are total idiots. Just listen to local talk radio in Denver and listen to the callers. There was a strong movement to have Bradlee Van Pelt picked as the QOTF at one point.

pricejj
04-26-2012, 02:24 PM
No, they are total idiots. Just listen to local talk radio in Denver and listen to the callers. There was a strong movement to have Bradlee Van Pelt picked as the QOTF at one point.

All he does is win...A-A-All he does is win...










games.

DBroncos4life
04-26-2012, 02:27 PM
No, they are total idiots. Just listen to local talk radio in Denver and listen to the callers. There was a strong movement to have Bradlee Van Pelt picked as the QOTF at one point.

BVP was just another white mobile QB that didn't get a fair shot in the NFL. Years from now Eric Crouch, BVP, and Tim Tebow will finally see the NFL change it's views on white mobile QBs. :wave:

Archer81
04-26-2012, 04:49 PM
If only Denver did not win a SB in 1998. We could have drafted Manning. MANNING...


...

:Broncos:

Hulamau
04-26-2012, 05:13 PM
Not really. Anyone thinking last year's slow start was due to anything other than Orton was either not watching any games or have the Tebow hate flowing.

No doubt Orton got the jitters early on last season and was a bit part of the poor start, and he was never the answer in any event, Tebow or no Tebow here. There is no question that Tebow provided a real spark as well and who doesnt love his passion and moxie for the game!

But if you Tebow nutsuckers think it was ONLY Tebow that was responsible for last seasons magic, and ONLY Orton that caused the 1-4 start then your blinders are so thick you're truly hopeless!

Go harangue the Jet faithful with such numbskullery and blind faith fervor, and good luck with that!

I loved Tebow here and wish he could have stayed as a backup with a chance to perhaps become a more well rounded QB over time, unrealistic as that hope was with this ocean of fanatics crying for him to start at every turn!) but some of you nut jobs have zero perspective or balance.

Tebow deserves a ton of credit for what he did last year. I wish him the very best when he's not playing the Broncos, but Im glad we have a chance for a true hall of fame QB to don the Orange and Blue again .. even if for a few years.

My post number 7,000 and its still trying to talk sense into some Tebow devotees, Geez, will it ever stop?!

Hercules Rockefeller
04-26-2012, 05:15 PM
If only Denver did not win a SB in 1998. We could have drafted Manning. MANNING...


...

:Broncos:

If only Manning had gone pro after his junior year, Shanahan would have done everything he could to move up and draft him (per Schefter when he was still at the Post).

oubronco
04-26-2012, 05:17 PM
We're going with Plan A

Hulamau
04-26-2012, 05:46 PM
If only Manning had gone pro after his junior year, Shanahan would have done everything he could to move up and draft him (per Schefter when he was still at the Post).

And it that happened, after Elway retired Manning would have won two to three SB with Shanny while Shanny still had the goods!