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View Full Version : The Draft....according to Mayock


canadianbroncosfan
04-25-2012, 06:07 PM
He has Poe going to the Broncos. Take it for what it's worth but I trust Mayock over anyone else.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/mock-drafts/mike-mayock/150251?module=HP11_cp

McDman
04-25-2012, 06:13 PM
Do not want.

houghtam
04-25-2012, 06:13 PM
Just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

TheReverend
04-25-2012, 06:18 PM
I'd be cool with Poe based on potential and the current regimes ability to develop that among the defensive interior.

Killericon
04-25-2012, 06:20 PM
Mayock's a great evaluator, but he hasn't been great at predicting the draft, IIRC.

SureShot
04-25-2012, 06:21 PM
Cool with me.

27atwater
04-25-2012, 06:22 PM
He has Poe going to the Broncos. Take it for what it's worth but I trust Mayock over anyone else.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/mock-drafts/mike-mayock/150251?module=HP11_cp

didn;t Mayock say Ayers would be the best defender from his draft class?

Crushisback
04-25-2012, 06:23 PM
No thanks. I'd rather have about five other DT's than Poe. Frankly, if he's there I hope someone at the top of round two jumps to our spot to get him. Then we take Wolfe/Reyes or BPA.

houghtam
04-25-2012, 06:25 PM
No thanks. I'd rather have about five other DT's than Poe. Frankly, if he's there I hope someone at the top of round two jumps to our spot to get him. Then we take Wolfe/Reyes or BPA.

I'd rather they draft Burfict than Poe.

Okay, maybe not Burfict...let me revise that.

I'd rather they draft Burfict's mother than Poe.

broncosteven
04-25-2012, 06:30 PM
I don't know much about Poe but I like that he can rush the passer and is a big guy.

This would be awesome if he is still there. I still get the gut impression that they want a CB 1st.

SureShot
04-25-2012, 06:33 PM
As long as Peyton is here its all about beating the Pats. CB makes a lot of sense.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-25-2012, 06:39 PM
didn;t Mayock say Ayers would be the best defender from his draft class?

And McCoy would be better than suh...he's a contrarian

27atwater
04-25-2012, 06:44 PM
Poe couldn't dominate at MEMPHIS. Pass...

DBroncos4life
04-25-2012, 06:47 PM
If you watch his mock draft on NFL he gives a pretty good reason why he would be a good fit. Freakish athlete with with a good motor. He says you should be able to coach that up into a great player.

peacepipe
04-25-2012, 06:51 PM
alright so a 348 lb DT in the 1st with poe then a 340 lb DT in ta"amu in the 2nd. our interior would be solved for a decade.

pricejj
04-25-2012, 06:58 PM
I'd be cool with Poe based on potential and the current regimes ability to develop that among the defensive interior.

^
THIS

JDR is money coaching up DL. Poe has a ton of ability, cool dude too.

rugbythug
04-25-2012, 07:02 PM
I love how if Mayock is incorrect on a single player that invalidates anything he says ever. Its not a math problem there is no single answer.

Rohirrim
04-25-2012, 07:03 PM
If Poe is the guy (and I had him mocked for the Broncos too), I think it is based on upside. We have some damn good defensive coaches on the Broncos. I'm sure they've met with Poe and interviewed him. They've done their due diligence. If they think they can turn him into a 3 tech kind of dominator, I'm on board with that. Not comfortable, but on board. If we had somebody that could have pushed up the middle against the Pats, we might have seen a different outcome.

Lestat
04-25-2012, 07:06 PM
umm, yes please. sign me up for that ****. Poe would be awesome at #25, then go grab Thompson to put next to him in round 2.

KCStud
04-25-2012, 07:06 PM
Oh my God Mark Barron+Eric Berry would be insane.

broncosteven
04-25-2012, 07:20 PM
Oh my God Mark Barron+Eric Berry would be insane.

You guys are going to take a QB and after everything implodes with draft bust and Steve Bono you will call up Brodie Croyle to start.

At least that is how I hope it goes down.

Bronco Boy
04-25-2012, 07:22 PM
Oh my God Mark Barron+Eric Berry would be insane.

Maybe Berry from a couple years ago.

Drek
04-25-2012, 07:32 PM
didn;t Mayock say Ayers would be the best defender from his draft class?

To be fair Mayock said that Ayers had the potential to be the best defender from his draft class, not that he would, and that claim also was tied to Ayers actually playing DE if I recall.

Funny that we put him to DE and immediately he becomes a worthwhile player in a strike shortened season, his first pro season in a 4-3 front. No need to sell Ayers short yet, his career is just getting started.

Requiem
04-25-2012, 07:35 PM
Does Drek stand for Dre Kirkpatrick? :)

Br0nc0Buster
04-25-2012, 07:36 PM
whatever

the only guys I really like that may be available are Kirpatrick and Still

and I am accepting the fact we are prolly not getting either

Dont like Poe, but at least we have competent coaching to possibly bring make him more consistent

That said I highly doubt we are interested in Poe

Drek
04-25-2012, 07:39 PM
As for the Poe pick, I'd agree with the consensus expressed in this thread. If Fox and Del Rio think they can make something out of Poe then I have faith.

If any team can develop Poe they'll earn themselves one of the biggest front seven difference makers in the league. That is one hell of a payoff. Very tempting.

razorwire77
04-25-2012, 07:56 PM
IMO Poe is a bit project who needs to learn how to play with better leverage. But, if Del Rio and Fox coach him up you have a 350 pound high motor, beast mode in the middle of your 4-3. I'd be a helluva lot happier with Poe at 25 than Martin or Miller.

Lestat
04-25-2012, 07:59 PM
if i remember correctly Mayock also put the caveat that Ayers could be the best as a complete DE, not playing LB in a 3-4 and wouldn't get a ton of sacks because guys who don't in college don't usually all of a sudden learn to do it in the pros.

Lestat
04-25-2012, 08:02 PM
As for the Poe pick, I'd agree with the consensus expressed in this thread. If Fox and Del Rio think they can make something out of Poe then I have faith.

If any team can develop Poe they'll earn themselves one of the biggest front seven difference makers in the league. That is one hell of a payoff. Very tempting.

to me he's a BJ Raji or Albert Haynesworth in Tennessee type. if you can get him to reach his potential. a big, strong, athletic guy who can collapse the pocket and hold the line.

Archer81
04-25-2012, 08:10 PM
Quote the raven..."**** no".

:Broncos:

dsmoot
04-25-2012, 08:17 PM
I watched the Ravens beat the snot out of us with some very similar players like Poe.

pricejj
04-25-2012, 08:22 PM
umm, yes please. sign me up for that ****. Poe would be awesome at #25, then go grab Thompson to put next to him in round 2.

:strong::bandwagon

Archer81
04-25-2012, 08:24 PM
I watched the Ravens beat the snot out of us with some very similar players like Poe.


...

Poe...Raven...Poe...Raven...

...

:Broncos:

Drek
04-25-2012, 08:27 PM
umm, yes please. sign me up for that ****. Poe would be awesome at #25, then go grab Thompson to put next to him in round 2.

Bunch of rumors have them liking Ta'amu in the second. Imagine Poe and Ta'amu. That's a beefy DT pair.

Requiem
04-25-2012, 08:29 PM
Bunch of rumors have them liking Ta'amu in the second. Imagine Poe and Ta'amu. That's a beefy DT pair.

I really hope we can get Ta'amu. I don't see why Mediator doesn't think he works here or is not a good fit.

Drek
04-25-2012, 08:31 PM
I really hope we can get Ta'amu. I don't see why Mediator doesn't think he works here or is not a good fit.

I think Ta'amu gets overpicked as the only real 3-4 NT in this class and isn't available at our 2nd rounder. But it'd be a crazy hypothetical. Two 350 pound DTs.

Lestat
04-25-2012, 08:36 PM
Bunch of rumors have them liking Ta'amu in the second. Imagine Poe and Ta'amu. That's a beefy DT pair.

Joe Mays might make the pro bowl with that pairing(i'm half kidding)

Goobzilla
04-25-2012, 08:38 PM
Just say Noe!

Requiem
04-25-2012, 08:38 PM
I think Ta'amu gets overpicked as the only real 3-4 NT in this class and isn't available at our 2nd rounder. But it'd be a crazy hypothetical. Two 350 pound DTs.

The Steelers picking right before us in Round 2 doesn't help. Moreover, Ta'amu was interviewed and felt that the Rams would swoop him up in the second based on how things went with his visit there. Now, if the Rams take Cox @ #6 -- I don't see them going for another DT, but I would be drooling if I was Coach Fisher and could get that combination.

If the Broncos have to settle for a player like Billy Winn in round two, that would be terrible. He is barely a Top 10 DT in this class. It will be really, really sad if that is who we bring in this year. Really pathetic. Not even a true DT. He is a tweener guy anyways. I'll abandon all hope if that is the way it goes.

Rohirrim
04-25-2012, 08:38 PM
I think Ta'amu gets overpicked as the only real 3-4 NT in this class and isn't available at our 2nd rounder. But it'd be a crazy hypothetical. Two 350 pound DTs.

Yeah, but then nobody on the Mane would have anything to complain about. ;D

Lycan
04-25-2012, 08:40 PM
Poe has a lot of potential. He's also a very risky pick but DTs in the late first are ALL risky picks.

Personally I will be doing the happy dance if we get someone with his size, strength and speed clogging the middle.

http://i.imgur.com/MY97H.gif

barryr
04-25-2012, 08:45 PM
If looking for a guy to just take up space, then maybe Poe is an answer. If looking for a DT to make plays behind the LOS and provide a pass rush, then look elsewhere. Poe fits a 3-4 defense better IMO, but we'll see.

TheReverend
04-25-2012, 08:51 PM
I think Ta'amu gets overpicked as the only real 3-4 NT in this class and isn't available at our 2nd rounder. But it'd be a crazy hypothetical. Two 350 pound DTs.

I think he's a better fit playing gap-edges in a 43. Boy can move.

peacepipe
04-25-2012, 08:53 PM
Bunch of rumors have them liking Ta'amu in the second. Imagine Poe and Ta'amu. That's a beefy DT pair.

finally someone seeing things my way our DL would be set for yrs. either that or hightower in the 1st & ta'amu in the 2nd.

yerner
04-25-2012, 08:55 PM
you guys are ****ing retards. begging for a dt but pretend to have scouted Poe. 6'4 350 that can run like a cheetah. it would be a steal at pick 25. btw. he was only a let down penetrating. go look at the scouting reviews of him holding the line. he has no coaching yet for ****sakes.

Broncoman13
04-26-2012, 06:57 AM
As for the Poe pick, I'd agree with the consensus expressed in this thread. If Fox and Del Rio think they can make something out of Poe then I have faith.

If any team can develop Poe they'll earn themselves one of the biggest front seven difference makers in the league. That is one hell of a payoff. Very tempting.

What I like about Poe is he is very self motivated. You don't go to the combine and put up 44 reps without being a hard worker. You also don't run in the 4.9s at 340+ lbs without a ton of training. Teams that have interviewed him have come away impressed. I'd actually be pretty surprised if he slid to us. The problem most people have with him is the lack of supreme production. Scott Wright pointed out how his production is similar to some other pretty good DTs that were drafted early the past few years: A three-year starter for the Tigers --- Named 2nd Team All-Conference USA in 2011 --- Led all prospects in the bench press at the Scouting Combine by putting up 44 reps of 225 pounds --- Gets knocked for a lack of production but posted similar tackles for a loss / sack numbers as Haloti Ngata, B.J. Raji and Phil Taylor at the same point in their careers --- Could project to nose tackle in either a 4-3 or 3-4 scheme and could also play the five-technique in an odd front --- Extraordinary physical specimen with truly rare blend of size / strength / athleticism.

I don't think he'll last to our pick.

cmhargrove
04-26-2012, 07:13 AM
you guys are ****ing retards. begging for a dt but pretend to have scouted Poe. 6'4 350 that can run like a cheetah. it would be a steal at pick 25. btw. he was only a let down penetrating. go look at the scouting reviews of him holding the line. he has no coaching yet for ****sakes.

It doesn't bother you a bit that no one on the entire football planet (who wasn't a Memphis fan) had any idea that this kid would even be considered in the first half of the draft? Then, pretty combine numbers and voila! First round pick!

Seriously, I live in Tulsa, watch TU football (C-USA) and have watched Memphis play. I never noticed Poe, he was just a jersey. He might end up being something good, but I will take football production over track numbers in the first round. Everyone keeps questioning guys like Brockers, Still, and Worthy but at least they have significant highlight reels against great competition. Are they streaky? Yes, but try to look up highlight tape on Poe - all you find is about 90% combine footage, and about 10% mediocre football plays.

This is football. We need guys that excel at playing football.

mhgaffney
04-26-2012, 07:20 AM
A 350 pound DT ran a 4.9?

holy crap. Draft him!

That One Guy
04-26-2012, 07:24 AM
Doesn't this guy for the parcels theory about freaks and how you take the freak and coach him because you can't coach freakish athletic ability? I always thought parcels knew his stuff so I'd be intrigued.

socalorado
04-26-2012, 07:48 AM
to me he's a BJ Raji or Albert Haynesworth in Tennessee type. if you can get him to reach his potential. a big, strong, athletic guy who can collapse the pocket and hold the line.

Yeah, i agree. I am not seeing how this is a bad thing for DEN specifically.
Fox/DelRio would make this kid a monster.

wolf754life
04-26-2012, 09:02 AM
McShay > Maycock

Rohirrim
04-26-2012, 09:51 AM
Here's a good write-up on Poe from a Dallas fan:

Poe is a very interesting study. I believe before the NFL Combine, the Cowboys were believing that they could get a guy like Poe in the 2nd round. Nobody had him ranked in January higher than about the 40th best player in the draft. With the Cowboys at #45, it did not seem like a stretch to grab the nose tackle of their dreams in the 2nd round.

Then, the combine happened. He lifted 44 times, demonstrating strength that is seldom ever seen. He ran a sub-5 40-yard dash. 300 pound humans don't do that very often, and yet Poe, at nearly 350, did it. These two exhibitions of superior physical tools made jaws drop and before long, he was projected to go in the Top 10 of the draft.

But, that caused many people to reference his college football games, since those should matter quite a bit more for prospects than workouts, one would think. And his college statistics of 5 sacks in 3 years gives people great concern. In 3 years at Memphis, one of the worst programs in college football as they won just 5 of 36 games while he played, Poe totaled 5 sacks and 21.5 tackles for loss. That production total at the Conference USA level is simply underwhelming to say the least.

But, when watching him play, you must consider a few things. 1) It seems like his motor is fine and that he is giving solid effort despite Memphis losing week after week. One game I watched this week had SMU with a 28-0 lead early in the 2nd, and Poe still busting his tail against double teams on numerous occasions. 2) Because he is the only player of substance on a sub-standard defense, he attracts a ton of attention. Double teams and backside cut blocks were something he saw quite a bit. 3) How important are stats for a 2-gapping nose tackle, anyway?

Which takes us back to the Haloti Ngata comparison. At Oregon, Ngata totaled 10.5 sacks in 3 seasons and 23.5 tackles for loss. Better, but not substantially better as Ngata never eclipsed 3.5 sacks in a single season. Then, as Ngata was getting All Pro accolades he had just 6.5 sacks in his first 4 seasons combined. Basically, dominating the league while averaging 1.5 sacks a season. A good nose tackle is not about big numbers. It is about attracting attention, causing chaos, and keeping your linebackers clean.

Phil Taylor, Baylor's big nose tackle that went to Cleveland last year had 5.5 sacks in 3 years of college football. Then, the 335 pound DT had 4 sacks as a rookie and was mighty disruptive all season. Like Poe, he came out of nowhere to settle into the 1st round of last year's draft. And the Browns are pleased to have him.

With Poe, I saw a push on the pass rush. I saw a good motor. And I saw a player that despite constant double teams was not going to be moved. Would I have liked to see much more domination of a player at the Conference USA level? Absolutely. But, it is absurd to hear people claim that this guy should be completely ignored. He has all sorts of promise and intrigue as you watch him play a stout tackle on a defensive front - something the Cowboys have been missing.
http://sturminator.blogspot.com/2012/04/draft-profile-dontari-poe-dt-memphis.html

SureShot
04-26-2012, 10:02 AM
I would take Poe we havent had a monster in the middle like that since Keith Traylor.

CEH
04-26-2012, 10:09 AM
Here's a good write-up on Poe from a Dallas fan:

Poe is a very interesting study. I believe before the NFL Combine, the Cowboys were believing that they could get a guy like Poe in the 2nd round. Nobody had him ranked in January higher than about the 40th best player in the draft. With the Cowboys at #45, it did not seem like a stretch to grab the nose tackle of their dreams in the 2nd round.

Then, the combine happened. He lifted 44 times, demonstrating strength that is seldom ever seen. He ran a sub-5 40-yard dash. 300 pound humans don't do that very often, and yet Poe, at nearly 350, did it. These two exhibitions of superior physical tools made jaws drop and before long, he was projected to go in the Top 10 of the draft.

But, that caused many people to reference his college football games, since those should matter quite a bit more for prospects than workouts, one would think. And his college statistics of 5 sacks in 3 years gives people great concern. In 3 years at Memphis, one of the worst programs in college football as they won just 5 of 36 games while he played, Poe totaled 5 sacks and 21.5 tackles for loss. That production total at the Conference USA level is simply underwhelming to say the least.

But, when watching him play, you must consider a few things. 1) It seems like his motor is fine and that he is giving solid effort despite Memphis losing week after week. One game I watched this week had SMU with a 28-0 lead early in the 2nd, and Poe still busting his tail against double teams on numerous occasions. 2) Because he is the only player of substance on a sub-standard defense, he attracts a ton of attention. Double teams and backside cut blocks were something he saw quite a bit. 3) How important are stats for a 2-gapping nose tackle, anyway?

Which takes us back to the Haloti Ngata comparison. At Oregon, Ngata totaled 10.5 sacks in 3 seasons and 23.5 tackles for loss. Better, but not substantially better as Ngata never eclipsed 3.5 sacks in a single season. Then, as Ngata was getting All Pro accolades he had just 6.5 sacks in his first 4 seasons combined. Basically, dominating the league while averaging 1.5 sacks a season. A good nose tackle is not about big numbers. It is about attracting attention, causing chaos, and keeping your linebackers clean.

Phil Taylor, Baylor's big nose tackle that went to Cleveland last year had 5.5 sacks in 3 years of college football. Then, the 335 pound DT had 4 sacks as a rookie and was mighty disruptive all season. Like Poe, he came out of nowhere to settle into the 1st round of last year's draft. And the Browns are pleased to have him.

With Poe, I saw a push on the pass rush. I saw a good motor. And I saw a player that despite constant double teams was not going to be moved. Would I have liked to see much more domination of a player at the Conference USA level? Absolutely. But, it is absurd to hear people claim that this guy should be completely ignored. He has all sorts of promise and intrigue as you watch him play a stout tackle on a defensive front - something the Cowboys have been missing.
http://sturminator.blogspot.com/2012/04/draft-profile-dontari-poe-dt-memphis.html

My question is Poe closer to Ngata or Okoye? I'm sure I can find a scouting repor ton Okoye from the same conference. Boy if you whiff on Poe it will set your team back. The ultimate boom or bust prospect

cmhargrove
04-26-2012, 10:12 AM
to me he's a BJ Raji or Albert Haynesworth in Tennessee type. if you can get him to reach his potential. a big, strong, athletic guy who can collapse the pocket and hold the line.

The main difference is that BJ Raji had a significantly impressive college career. Everyone knew he was a stud and he dominated on the line. The real question about Raji is how he would do without another "dominant" DT right next to him. If you remember, BC had Raji and Ron Brace (both around 340+) on the roster at the same time. They wreaked havoc together, the main question was if they could do it alone.

I'm not going to freak out if we draft him, I just think we could do significantly better, and he has a really high bust potential. By that, I mean you lose the chance for first round talent, even if you just took a "fourth round" kind of player.

55CrushEm
04-26-2012, 10:15 AM
As long as Peyton is here its all about beating the Pats. CB makes a lot of sense.

If it's all about beating the Pats....then DL, not CB, would make sense.

See 2007 and 2001 Giants.

cmhargrove
04-26-2012, 10:16 AM
I would take Poe we havent had a monster in the middle like that since Keith Traylor.

If you want the inside monster presence, just take Alameda Ta'amu in the first. Sure, it would be overpaying, but at least that guy has "difference maker" written all over him. Much, much, much better football player than Poe. He is a great run-stuffer and can actually collapse the pocket. He also chases down the play after it passes him. For all of Poe's track skills, he just isn't very good in pursuit either. He's an easy guy to play around and "subtract" from the gameplan.

Rohirrim
04-26-2012, 10:16 AM
My question is Poe closer to Ngata or Okoye? I'm sure I can find a scouting repor ton Okoye from the same conference. Boy if you whiff on Poe it will set your team back. The ultimate boom or bust prospect

Yeah. That worries me too. Fortunately, the Broncos have one of the most experienced line coaches in the league with Wayne Nunnely. And as we saw on Elway's "tour", he'll be in the room. ;D

55CrushEm
04-26-2012, 10:21 AM
you guys are ****ing retards. begging for a dt but pretend to have scouted Poe. 6'4 350 that can run like a cheetah. it would be a steal at pick 25. btw. he was only a let down penetrating. go look at the scouting reviews of him holding the line. he has no coaching yet for ****sakes.

That's exactly what Mayock said below the pick in his mock.....that Poe could be the "steal" of the draft at #25.

Dedhed
04-26-2012, 10:43 AM
That's exactly what Mayock said below the pick in his mock.....that Poe could be the "steal" of the draft at #25.
This is a possibility, but it's also a possibility that he's a complete bust. That's a risky proposition for a team that is in a "win now" mode. He's clearly a physical freak, but that doesn't matter much in a league full of them. It didn't seem to translate in college, so I find it hard to imagine it will in the NFL.

I see Poe as having great upside potential, but I don't see him as a day 1 impact guy and he has serious potential to be a total flop. I obviously haven't seen enough of him or know the exact role JDR would be looking for him to fill. There's certainly the possibility that the FO has seen a guy who is perfect for what they're looking to do, but he seems like a high risk pick to me.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-26-2012, 10:52 AM
Man, I'd really rather have Still. Really like that guy.

LINK (http://blogs.westword.com/cafesociety/2012/04/steubens_new_menu.php)

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-26-2012, 10:53 AM
This is a possibility, but it's also a possibility that he's a complete bust. That's a risky proposition for a team that is in a "win now" mode. He's clearly a physical freak, but that doesn't matter much in a league full of them. It didn't seem to translate in college, so I find it hard to imagine it will in the NFL.

I see Poe as having great upside potential, but I don't see him as a day 1 impact guy and he has serious potential to be a total flop. I obviously haven't seen enough of him or know the exact role JDR would be looking for him to fill. There's certainly the possibility that the FO has seen a guy who is perfect for what they're looking to do, but he seems like a high risk pick to me.

I completely agree with all of this. Didn't necessitate double teams in C-USA, but he's going to be a force of nature at the next level? Pfft.

razorwire77
04-26-2012, 11:00 AM
I see Poe as having great upside potential, but I don't see him as a day 1 impact guy and he has serious potential to be a total flop. I obviously haven't seen enough of him or know the exact role JDR would be looking for him to fill. There's certainly the possibility that the FO has seen a guy who is perfect for what they're looking to do, but he seems like a high risk pick to me.
I think that's a pretty accurate assessment. The guy has the physical potential to be a dominant force and anchor in a 4-3. But, that's not going to happen day one, year one, if it happens at all. I see Poe getting drafted by a team that will insert him in goaline and short situations, while trying to teach him to play with better leverage.

cmhargrove
04-26-2012, 11:11 AM
Man, I'd really rather have Still. Really like that guy.

LINK (http://blogs.westword.com/cafesociety/2012/04/steubens_new_menu.php)

I really liked Still at the beginning also, and still would be happy with that pick. However, I have started warming to Worthy a lot more as time rolls on. More than Still, he can actually blow a Guard 3-4 yards into the backfield while still watching the play develop. I think he would be a better fit for what Fox and JDR have tried to accomplish over the years - free up the DE's. Worthy may be hit and miss on certain games, but he has proven the ability to dominate against very good offensive linemen when he's on his game - I like that a lot.

Put him next to another good lineman (Ty Warren in 2008-2009 form?), and he could have a really good start to his career and give us just what we need.

TheReverend
04-26-2012, 11:17 AM
Man, I'd really rather have Still. Really like that guy.

LINK (http://blogs.westword.com/cafesociety/2012/04/steubens_new_menu.php)

^ that

TheReverend
04-26-2012, 11:17 AM
I really liked Still at the beginning also, and still would be happy with that pick. However, I have started warming to Worthy a lot more as time rolls on. More than Still, he can actually blow a Guard 3-4 yards into the backfield while still watching the play develop. I think he would be a better fit for what Fox and JDR have tried to accomplish over the years - free up the DE's. Worthy may be hit and miss on certain games, but he has proven the ability to dominate against very good offensive linemen when he's on his game - I like that a lot.

Put him next to another good lineman (Ty Warren in 2008-2009 form?), and he could have a really good start to his career and give us just what we need.

lol Worthy can only do that when he false starts.

...which is about half the plays Hilarious!

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 11:20 AM
These draft experts tickle me. They keep predicting us to draft a DT despite all the evidence that it's never going to happen.

Rohirrim
04-26-2012, 11:22 AM
I really liked Still at the beginning also, and still would be happy with that pick. However, I have started warming to Worthy a lot more as time rolls on. More than Still, he can actually blow a Guard 3-4 yards into the backfield while still watching the play develop. I think he would be a better fit for what Fox and JDR have tried to accomplish over the years - free up the DE's. Worthy may be hit and miss on certain games, but he has proven the ability to dominate against very good offensive linemen when he's on his game - I like that a lot.

Put him next to another good lineman (Ty Warren in 2008-2009 form?), and he could have a really good start to his career and give us just what we need.

Yeah. I'm still high on Worthy. He was the player I wanted at first, but then I gave up on him because the Broncos have never picked the player I'm high on. Which was a good thing last year, 'cause I wanted Fairley. :oyvey:

cmhargrove
04-26-2012, 11:27 AM
lol Worthy can only do that when he false starts.

...which is about half the plays Hilarious!

I don't think there is a "perfect" D-line option outside of Cox this year. I see Worthy initially as as "platoon" D-Tackle that takes his share of snaps (like Bunkley did) for his first year. Then, he can gain strength, technique, and have the ability to be a more complete player by year 2. I think any d-lineman we get in this draft (from pick 25, through the sixth round) will have the chance to fill the same role, but we are "buying upside" at the #25 pick. He has shown that he can play a dominant game against strong competition, which is a good sign for his potential development.

There are lots of great D-linemen that develop their game off of anticipating snap counts, you know this better than me.

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 11:28 AM
I see Worthy initially as as "platoon" D-Tackle that takes his share of snaps (like Bunkley did) for his first year. Then, he can gain strength, technique, and have the ability to be a more complete player by year 2.

There's not a chance in hell that Worthy is anywhere near as good as Bunkley in his rookie season. That's crazy talk...

Requiem
04-26-2012, 11:29 AM
I'm worried about Still's connection to Boy Raper U.

cmhargrove
04-26-2012, 12:59 PM
There's not a chance in hell that Worthy is anywhere near as good as Bunkley in his rookie season. That's crazy talk...

Simma down nah.

Bunkley played what, 43-46% of the defensive snaps last year? Like it or not, he was still a "rotational player." That's the reference. For all the jabber about Worthy's weaknesses, he has shown he can be a pretty damn good rotational lineman. He will never be Suh, but he could be a significant part of a very solid line.

I'm not saying he's our guy, but I certainly wouldn't be upset with taking him at #25.

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 01:09 PM
Simma down nah.

Bunkley played what, 43-46% of the defensive snaps last year? Like it or not, he was still a "rotational player." That's the reference. For all the jabber about Worthy's weaknesses, he has shown he can be a pretty damn good rotational lineman. He will never be Suh, but he could be a significant part of a very solid line.

I'm not saying he's our guy, but I certainly wouldn't be upset with taking him at #25.

And rookie DT's almost always suck their first year. Again, Worthy being better than Bunkley in his rookie season is a remote possibility at best.

DBroncos4life
04-26-2012, 01:14 PM
I like how in just one season Bunkley went from some scrub we got in a trade to an all pro DT that will take years to replace we just let walk away.

Requiem
04-26-2012, 01:15 PM
I like how in just one season Bunkley went from some scrub we got in a trade to some all pro DT that will take years to replace we just let walk away.

I'm going to miss the 35% of snaps he played. :( Hilarious!

DBroncos4life
04-26-2012, 01:16 PM
I'm going to miss the 35% of snaps he played. :( Hilarious!

Bannan has his work cut out for him.

Stagger Lee
04-26-2012, 01:17 PM
Oh my God Mark Barron+Eric Berry would be insane.

Which one is going to play qb?

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 01:20 PM
Bunkley was never a "scrub". He was a solid run stuffer for the Eagles but never lived up to the 1st round expectations because he sucked as a pass rusher. Whenever I see DB quoted I'm reminded why I have him on ignore.

pricejj
04-26-2012, 02:22 PM
Simma down nah.

Bunkley played what, 43-46% of the defensive snaps last year? Like it or not, he was still a "rotational player." That's the reference. For all the jabber about Worthy's weaknesses, he has shown he can be a pretty damn good rotational lineman.

Bunkley is WAY stronger than Worthy ever will be, and faster too. He's built like a brick wall, and hustle's on every play. Do you wonder why the DL wasn't getting blown off the ball on every play, like in years past? Yeah, that's Bunkley. Worthy has about the same ability as Marcus Thomas, with more mental aptitude.

Bunkley is making $5M per year.
DymeLyfe is unemployed.

KCStud
04-26-2012, 03:38 PM
Maybe Berry from a couple years ago.

Berry is fine. He was running full speed and cutting in OTA's this week.

DBroncos4life
04-26-2012, 03:44 PM
Mich State gave up less then 3 yards per rush last year and just 11 rushing TDs. Worthy was a HUGE reason for that.

pricejj
04-26-2012, 03:50 PM
Mich State gave up less then 3 yards per rush last year and just 11 rushing TDs. Worthy was a HUGE reason for that.

Dang, MSU had the #5 overall Defense...

houghtam
04-26-2012, 04:06 PM
Dang, MSU had the #5 overall Defense...

Yep. And they had the #1 defense going into the Big Ten championship game, then they played Wisconsin and Georgia.

People who say Worthy can't play in the NFL didn't watch Worthy play.

Not saying the Broncos will or even should take him, but saying he's a bust or won't live up to potential just shows you haven't watched him play.

cabronco
04-26-2012, 04:06 PM
To be fair Mayock said that Ayers had the potential to be the best defender from his draft class, not that he would, and that claim also was tied to Ayers actually playing DE if I recall.

Funny that we put him to DE and immediately he becomes a worthwhile player in a strike shortened season, his first pro season in a 4-3 front. No need to sell Ayers short yet, his career is just getting started.

If I recall right Mayock also said it would take Ayers 2 to 3 years to reach his full potential. FWIW.

DBroncos4life
04-26-2012, 04:08 PM
Dang, MSU had the #5 overall Defense...

Point being?

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 04:13 PM
Yep. And they had the #1 defense going into the Big Ten championship game, then they played Wisconsin and Georgia.

People who say Worthy can't play in the NFL didn't watch Worthy play.

Not saying the Broncos will or even should take him, but saying he's a bust or won't live up to potential just shows you haven't watched him play.

Actually predicting DT's to bust in the NFL is really just playing the odds. DT's bust like crazy at the highest level, no matter how great they were in college. Many DT's that looked considerably better than Worthy have failed to do much after being drafted.

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 04:13 PM
Which one is going to play qb?

Hilarious!

pricejj
04-26-2012, 04:14 PM
Yep. And they had the #1 defense going into the Big Ten championship game, then they played Wisconsin and Georgia.

People who say Worthy can't play in the NFL didn't watch Worthy play.

Not saying the Broncos will or even should take him, but saying he's a bust or won't live up to potential just shows you haven't watched him play.

I've watched all the games posted on the internet (which is about 3 or 4). I liked him against Ohio State, and Georgia...hated him against Wisconsin in 2010 and 2011. That was pretty much the decisive factor for me, including his pedestrian strength and speed.

It's too bad there aren't more games posted for these prospects. I would have a much more informed opinion, viewing the whole body of work. With all the info the Broncos have...I'm sure they'll make the right decision.

cutthemdown
04-26-2012, 04:17 PM
Oh my God Mark Barron+Eric Berry would be insane.

It would be. Also though would be a bit strange to see a team invest so many high first round picks on safetys. Especially when they need a QB. Honestly the qbs on the Chiefs are more the bkup type. Until they get a better QB the most they can hope for is maybe 8 to 9 wins. Unless they get some lucky breaks. Realistically though Cassel just not good enough. They should take a chance on Tannehil.

cutthemdown
04-26-2012, 04:18 PM
I watched some tape here and there and the most impressive IMO is Kendell Reyes and Wynn. Those 2 dline players will make some noise in the NFL.

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 04:38 PM
It would be. Also though would be a bit strange to see a team invest so many high first round picks on safetys. Especially when they need a QB. Honestly the qbs on the Chiefs are more the bkup type. Until they get a better QB the most they can hope for is maybe 8 to 9 wins. Unless they get some lucky breaks. Realistically though Cassel just not good enough. They should take a chance on Tannehil.

Tannehill will almost certainly require them to trade up over Miami (who is even more desperate for a QB), and he's a very hit or miss type of prospect. Doesn't seem like the kind of guy Pioli would target. I could see them going for Weeden in the 2nd way before they go for Tannehill.

Arkie
04-26-2012, 04:50 PM
It doesn't bother you a bit that no one on the entire football planet (who wasn't a Memphis fan) had any idea that this kid would even be considered in the first half of the draft? Then, pretty combine numbers and voila! First round pick!


If he goes in the top 10, it's because of the combine, but he was already going in the top two rounds. He's been in Mayock's top 5 since they were first unveiled in January. I saw him go in the first round of several pre-combine mocks as well.

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 05:02 PM
I will always value production and on the field play over combine numbers. To me the combine is a bit of a joke, relatively speaking. Poe is the one player I've seen mocked for the Broncos by multiple sites that literally causes me to get a little bit queasy. Dude is going to suck in the NFL. Count on it.

houghtam
04-26-2012, 05:04 PM
I've watched all the games posted on the internet (which is about 3 or 4). I liked him against Ohio State, and Georgia...hated him against Wisconsin in 2010 and 2011. That was pretty much the decisive factor for me, including his pedestrian strength and speed.

It's too bad there aren't more games posted for these prospects. I would have a much more informed opinion, viewing the whole body of work. With all the info the Broncos have...I'm sure they'll make the right decision.

That's the thing.

You've seen 3 or 4 games. Most people here have seen that (or less). People who are in the know, who make mock drafts that people actually read, and who have seen every game he's played have him rated as a first round pick.

Whom do you trust?

broncogary
04-26-2012, 05:06 PM
That's the thing.

You've seen 3 or 4 games. Most people here have seen that (or less). People who are in the know, who make mock drafts that people actually read, and who have seen every game he's played have him rated as a first round pick.

Whom do you trust?

I trust the Mane. It's where I heard about 9-11.

Agamemnon
04-26-2012, 05:09 PM
That's the thing.

You've seen 3 or 4 games. Most people here have seen that (or less). People who are in the know, who make mock drafts that people actually read, and who have seen every game he's played have him rated as a first round pick.

Whom do you trust?

When you look at the rate at which 1st round picks bust, trusting anyone is kind of silly. Everyone is just guessing mostly. Draft gurus and NFL scouts are simply making their guesses with more information.

pricejj
04-26-2012, 05:21 PM
Whom do you trust?

Nobody.


I guess we'll find out how much real NFL GM's value all of these prospects here in a little bit. I always viewed Worthy as a 2nd round pick, with the little information that I have. Initially starting out as a rotational guy, who may develop into a solid starter eventually. I projected him to have basically his college numbers in the NFL in a couple years: 30 tackles, 3 sacks. Nothing overwhelming, but good for a 2nd rounder. I could be wrong. IAOFM is saying if he cut about 10-15 lbs. he might become a dangerous UT with more production, you guys might be right. He did play well as an rFreshman, and his change of assignment as a rJunior may have stunted his production more than I thought. We'll see.