PDA

View Full Version : Joe Mays "I missed to many tackles... I read all about it on the internet."


KillerBronco#76
04-24-2012, 12:56 PM
http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/John-Elway-Pre-Draft-Press-Conference/7baaa8b3-bb09-4f1b-aa18-c6164a2125ba#?id=e58f8739-a1e2-48ad-84e0-7c12f7acea16

Joe Mays talks about the fans negative evaluation of his play (4:00-7:40).

Thought this was relevant considering many peoples views of him on this board. It would seem he has taken notice of what you're saying.

broncosteven
04-24-2012, 12:59 PM
I hope KM is reading the InTErnEts also!

DarkHorse
04-24-2012, 01:17 PM
No kidding - grab Moreno and drag him to the interweb.



I'm extremely harsh on Mays, don't think he should be playing. That said, I don't know the guy but i'm always up for Broncos players proving me wrong so good luck, I hope he gets it done!

houghtam
04-24-2012, 01:27 PM
No kidding - grab Moreno and drag him to the interweb.



I'm extremely harsh on Mays, don't think he should be playing. That said, I don't know the guy but i'm always up for Broncos players proving me wrong so good luck, I hope he gets it done!

I'm with you. I think Mays is awful, but hey...he manned up and admitted it. He's on the team so there's nothing we can do at this point except hope that he's true to his word.

I just gained quite a bit more respect for Joe Mays the person...this season he'll get the chance to earn respect for Joe Mays the football player.

vancejohnson82
04-24-2012, 01:47 PM
I think Mays has the ability to be a pretty good player in this league...he is definitely overagressive in his pursuit and has never learned how to break down in the gap and make a tackle...that being said he is better than a guy like Nate Webster because he does make plays in the backfield every so often

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-24-2012, 01:48 PM
No kidding - grab Moreno and drag him to the interweb.



He's too busy being "sauced"

DomCasual
04-24-2012, 01:50 PM
<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9biPfmRxOK0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Beantown Bronco
04-24-2012, 02:01 PM
I wonder how much the Saints would've paid for that hit.

eddie mac
04-24-2012, 03:00 PM
That was some ****ing hit.

Houshyamama
04-24-2012, 03:19 PM
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/03/29/2011-run-stop-percentage-linebackers/

DomCasual
04-24-2012, 03:24 PM
That was some ****ing hit.

Yeah. Despite his deficiencies, I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for him - based on that hit, alone.

I'd use a phrase made popular by our friend, Clayton Wendler, but it would be classless.

vancejohnson82
04-24-2012, 03:29 PM
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/03/29/2011-run-stop-percentage-linebackers/

good find

baja
04-24-2012, 03:31 PM
I wonder how much the Saints would've paid for that hit.

It's probably in their training film. under "bonus points hits"

Vegas_Bronco
04-24-2012, 03:47 PM
JOE is the straight line rhino and then whiffs when target is in motion...get him some flexibility in the stance, wide base and excellent balance and some good lateral agility (footwork) and he'll bebe lights out...even pushing all pro...lots of work but he has the tools to get there. He has the talent and instincts to get to the ball...but must finish each play like an all pro...or use the opposing blockers body to stop the play like the all pros do.

Watch film on how wide Al Wilsons stance was...he started low and wide and had amazing lateral speed and balance. He is built just like Al.

fontaine
04-24-2012, 03:56 PM
I personally love the way Joe Mays plays.

Was he brought in as a coverage LBer? No.
Was he brought in as a first day pick? No.

Yes, he's got his limitations in lateral agility and coverage but he was brought in first and foremost to be an enforcer against the run when we were soft as melted cheese up the middle.

He's done that.

houghtam
04-24-2012, 03:58 PM
I personally love the way Joe Mays plays.

Was he brought in as a coverage LBer? No.
Was he brought in as a first day pick? No.

Yes, he's got his limitations in lateral agility and coverage but he was brought in first and foremost to be an enforcer against the run when we were soft as melted cheese up the middle.

He's done that.

If by enforcer you mean guy who misses more tackles than he should, than yes.

fontaine
04-24-2012, 04:08 PM
If by enforcer you mean guy who misses more tackles than he should, than yes.

Ryan Matthews disagrees!

:)

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/NWKj8VTzL3Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Lestat
04-24-2012, 04:10 PM
so he didn't see it on film enough but reading it on the web drills it into his head?

Requiem
04-24-2012, 04:12 PM
Joe Mays kicks ass. GO BISON. NATIONAL CHAMPS. Screw the haters.

chickennob2
04-24-2012, 05:09 PM
Uh, any guesses as to what this is supposed to be?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bjmEUaSStfs&t=4m31s

If it's a wolverine thing... neither the furry mammals nor Hugh Jackman (redundant?) have ever made this noise.

houghtam
04-24-2012, 05:15 PM
so he didn't see it on film enough but reading it on the web drills it into his head?

Maybe he just doesn't watch film? That would explain a lot.

oubronco
04-24-2012, 05:21 PM
Someone needs to tell him to wrap up when tackling

broncswin
04-24-2012, 05:37 PM
JOE is the straight line rhino and then whiffs when target is in motion...get him some flexibility in the stance, wide base and excellent balance and some good lateral agility (footwork) and he'll bebe lights out...even pushing all pro...lots of work but he has the tools to get there. He has the talent and instincts to get to the ball...but must finish each play like an all pro...or use the opposing blockers body to stop the play like the all pros do.

Watch film on how wide Al Wilsons stance was...he started low and wide and had amazing lateral speed and balance. He is built just like Al.

It was scary how quick Wilson was laterally..and the way he could square up on a guy in a flash:strong:

broncosteven
04-24-2012, 09:56 PM
It was scary how quick Wilson was laterally..and the way he could square up on a guy in a flash:strong:
There was some dude from Boston College who NFL Live was showing that looked like Wilson/Urlicker.

I wouldn't mind seeing them land that kid.

broncocalijohn
04-24-2012, 10:18 PM
Ryan Matthews disagrees!

:)

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/NWKj8VTzL3Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

and just think of all the youtube videos we would be watching of Joe Mays if he actually did that every once in a while? We will all remember the special teams' hit he put on Moeki but we look at that and this video and wonder where is those hits in other games? Consistency and not mere whiffs.

Lestat
04-24-2012, 10:44 PM
Maybe he just doesn't watch film? That would explain a lot.

he certainly acted like it a good portion of the time last season.

Dr. Broncenstein
04-25-2012, 02:14 AM
Do not taunt happy fun 'backer.

bpc
04-25-2012, 04:37 AM
No problem with Joe Mays. The guy has sand in his pants and will run through you on tackles. Exactly what you want in the middle. I hope he can continue to get better because it is apparent that he cares about football, playing the game the right way. Yes, he can wrap up better and doesn't always need to make the highlight lick. Those are nice but get the opposing team on the ground. Coaches feel he can and will improve which is why they have brought him back.

fontaine
04-25-2012, 05:25 AM
Does anyone actually chart games where they list broken tackles?

Or is this idea of Joe Mays constantly whiffing and missing just some of the usual crap that floats around this board?

Don't see Joe Mays on this list or high missed tackles from 2010.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2011/broken-tackles-2010

I don't track every game but rewatch and track about half of the games last year on what's going on the front 7/OL/RBs since there's limitations on what's actually shown (can't see what deep drops by the safety for example). It's one of the reasons why I was so low on Beadles even in the early stage of the season last year and high on Chris Harris' tackling ability.

And I can say that Joe Mays isn't a bad tackler or a guy that misses a high percentage of tackles. He's not a sideline to sideline backer and isn't a coverage guy but the defense doesn't ask that from him.

WolfpackGuy
04-25-2012, 05:46 AM
He makes most of the tackles right at him, but he just doesn't have much range from what I've seen.

maher_tyler
04-25-2012, 06:41 AM
http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/John-Elway-Pre-Draft-Press-Conference/7baaa8b3-bb09-4f1b-aa18-c6164a2125ba#?id=e58f8739-a1e2-48ad-84e0-7c12f7acea16

Joe Mays talks about the fans negative evaluation of his play (4:00-7:40).

Thought this was relevant considering many peoples views of him on this board. It would seem he has taken notice of what you're saying.

He just doesn't have the speed to play MLB. It's why so many teams ran toss and sweep plays..at least IMO. We also got torched by teams with good TEs going over the middle because he sucks in coverage as well. He would make an ok back up and good special teams guy and that's it. He should not be starting or were in for another up and down year on D. Play decent against teams with mediocre offense and bad against teams like the Pats. I'm praying Irving steps up big!

fontaine
04-25-2012, 07:02 AM
He just doesn't have the speed to play MLB. It's why so many teams ran toss and sweep plays..at least IMO. We also got torched by teams with good TEs going over the middle because he sucks in coverage as well. He would make an ok back up and good special teams guy and that's it. He should not be starting or were in for another up and down year on D. Play decent against teams with mediocre offense and bad against teams like the Pats. I'm praying Irving steps up big!

I'm not sure where you get this or are you just repeating misinformation.

Joes Mays simply did not have consistent deeper coverage responsibility (like say the eagle role with Al Wilson) and was substituted regularly on obvious passing downs, hence why he played just around 600 snaps.

Again, his coverage/side line to side line range isn't in question here, it's his run stopping ability in how he's missed on a lot of tackles when that's simply not the case from what I've seen or what the stats show.

And we didn't get torched by TEs either. Everyone points to the NE games when their TEs carved up most defenses anyway. In reality Denver was middle of the pack against TEs, giving up on average 41 yards a game to TEs.

vancejohnson82
04-25-2012, 07:41 AM
Does anyone actually chart games where they list broken tackles?

Or is this idea of Joe Mays constantly whiffing and missing just some of the usual crap that floats around this board?

Don't see Joe Mays on this list or high missed tackles from 2010.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2011/broken-tackles-2010

I don't track every game but rewatch and track about half of the games last year on what's going on the front 7/OL/RBs since there's limitations on what's actually shown (can't see what deep drops by the safety for example). It's one of the reasons why I was so low on Beadles even in the early stage of the season last year and high on Chris Harris' tackling ability.

And I can say that Joe Mays isn't a bad tackler or a guy that misses a high percentage of tackles. He's not a sideline to sideline backer and isn't a coverage guy but the defense doesn't ask that from him.

I wouldn't neccessarily say he "whiffs" on a lot of tackles but he definitely misses a lot of gap assignments by being a bit too overagressive which leads to him running past the ball carrier often...most of the tackles he made were in the interior gaps where he made a quick read and ran straight through the RB...

conversely, teams started to run a lot of counters and screens to combat this....the same could be said for Miller too...

I think both of these guys will get better in their reads and will temper back a little bit of the early go get'em reads this year

Bmore Manning
04-25-2012, 07:53 AM
Would anyone advocate Hightower if he was there @25?
I see Mays being better as a 3-4 ILB...

hambone13
04-25-2012, 07:54 AM
Thanks for the post. I really enjoyed that press conference. While I was as irritated as many were with Joe last year and some of his over committed whiffs, I always dug his passion. After seeing this I really like the guy and am confident he can get a lot better. More importantly, I can understand a bit more why the team made the financial commitment that they did. They seem to have been investing in the positive, jovial team oriented character as much as in his performance. I was always excited that he was back but just annoyed at the amount we paid him. This lightened the blow a bit. Thanks again.

Garcia Bronco
04-25-2012, 08:10 AM
Thanks for the post. I really enjoyed that press conference. While I was as irritated as many were with Joe last year and some of his over committed whiffs, I always dug his passion. After seeing this I really like the guy and am confident he can get a lot better. More importantly, I can understand a bit more why the team made the financial commitment that they did. They seem to have been investing in the positive, jovial team oriented character as much as in his performance. I was always excited that he was back but just annoyed at the amount we paid him. This lightened the blow a bit. Thanks again.

Well said.

BroncoInferno
04-25-2012, 08:15 AM
Would anyone advocate Hightower if he was there @25?
I see Mays being better as a 3-4 ILB...

To me, an ILB is only worth a 1st in todays pass happy NFL if he can stay on the field for all three downs. That's not Hightower. Kuechly is the only ILB worth a 1st in this class, IMHO. There are a couple of other guys with a good all around game, Kendricks and Spence, but they are undersized for ILB and may be a better fit at OLB.

Rabb
04-25-2012, 08:20 AM
Would anyone advocate Hightower if he was there @25?
I see Mays being better as a 3-4 ILB...

I think passing on him would be a mistake honestly. The Ravens are really looking at him, even to the point of trading up. They seem to know a thing or two about the position.

houghtam
04-25-2012, 08:25 AM
Thanks for the post. I really enjoyed that press conference. While I was as irritated as many were with Joe last year and some of his over committed whiffs, I always dug his passion. After seeing this I really like the guy and am confident he can get a lot better. More importantly, I can understand a bit more why the team made the financial commitment that they did. They seem to have been investing in the positive, jovial team oriented character as much as in his performance. I was always excited that he was back but just annoyed at the amount we paid him. This lightened the blow a bit. Thanks again.

Good point. This is probably a lot better phrasing than simply "missing tackles". He missed a few tackles here and there, but over-committed and played out of position a lot.

Here's to hoping he can fill whatever role it is EFX have for him.

Dedhed
04-25-2012, 08:28 AM
So he recognizes he missed tackles; good start. What did he say about poor recognition, over pursuit, bad angles, and missing his zone in pass coverage?

Garcia Bronco
04-25-2012, 08:39 AM
Good point. This is probably a lot better phrasing than simply "missing tackles". He missed a few tackles here and there, but over-committed and played out of position a lot.

Here's to hoping he can fill whatever role it is EFX have for him.

Exactly...it's all something that can be fixed. I've liked him because if he does make the right decision, he blows whatever up.

Lestat
04-25-2012, 09:00 AM
i don't have an issue with Mays as a role player and developmental type player. i have an issue with having piss poor DT play, using Mays as a starter and expecting him to be able to make enough plays to not hurt the defense.

i probably wouldn't have paid him 4 mil, 2.5-3.4 yeah. but if you put high quality DT's in front of him so he's not taking on blockers and having to make plays on the edge or not make straight line plays then he'll be fine.

somehow i just don't see the Broncos doing so at the moment. we'll likely have Warren and Vickerson as the starters, Bannan and a lower round developmental DT as the back ups and then you have issues with Mays production. if you keep him clean with the DT's he'll do fine. but i still think he can be upgraded.

Bmore Manning
04-25-2012, 09:08 AM
To me, an ILB is only worth a 1st in todays pass happy NFL if he can stay on the field for all three downs. That's not Hightower. Kuechly is the only ILB worth a 1st in this class, IMHO. There are a couple of other guys with a good all around game, Kendricks and Spence, but they are undersized for ILB and may be a better fit at OLB.

I think he is much better in coverage than he is given credit for. He is better in coverage than Mays. If they don't take a MLB and Irving and Mays struggle, that beast Manti Teo should be available next year.

DBroncos4life
04-25-2012, 09:13 AM
I think he is much better in coverage than he is given credit for. He is better in coverage than Mays. If they don't take a MLB and Irving and Mays struggle, that beast Manti Teo should be available next year.

I thought they moved Hightower to DE on passing downs. There are ways of getting 3 downs out of Hightower.

Dedhed
04-25-2012, 09:17 AM
Exactly...it's all something that can be fixed. I've liked him because if he does make the right decision, he blows whatever up.

There's a difference between making a decision based on what you see in front of you, and just going all-in on a guess. Mays is the latter.

When he blows up a play, he's simply guessed right. But it happens rarely.

Bmore Manning
04-25-2012, 09:18 AM
I thought they moved Hightower to DE on passing downs. There are ways of getting 3 downs out of Hightower.

I think your right, I think they did bring him off the Edge at times. I like Hightower a lot, and if the rest of the top DTs and CBs are gone, I would not be against taking him. The issue would be is that ideal given Irving's potential and Mays salary. Maybe Irving could play outside or just provide depth. I know Hightower is a leader, you need that from your MLB.

socalorado
04-25-2012, 09:21 AM
I'm not sure where you get this or are you just repeating misinformation.

Joes Mays simply did not have consistent deeper coverage responsibility (like say the eagle role with Al Wilson) and was substituted regularly on obvious passing downs, hence why he played just around 600 snaps.

Again, his coverage/side line to side line range isn't in question here, it's his run stopping ability in how he's missed on a lot of tackles when that's simply not the case from what I've seen or what the stats show.

And we didn't get torched by TEs either. Everyone points to the NE games when their TEs carved up most defenses anyway. In reality Denver was middle of the pack against TEs, giving up on average 41 yards a game to TEs.

^
NAILED IT.

Lestat
04-25-2012, 09:28 AM
I thought they moved Hightower to DE on passing downs. There are ways of getting 3 downs out of Hightower.

they did, that's why some project him as more of a 3-4 OLB than 4-3 MLB or SLB. i think he can play both and give you a dynamic rush/MLB combo.
if you were to team he and Von up it would definitely make the LB corps a lot stronger and certainly more interesting. but with Mays being signed to a deal i would imagine they'll go for a pure OLB over a MLB.

Dedhed
04-25-2012, 09:39 AM
I'm not sure where you get this or are you just repeating misinformation.

Joes Mays simply did not have consistent deeper coverage responsibility (like say the eagle role with Al Wilson) and was substituted regularly on obvious passing downs, hence why he played just around 600 snaps.

Again, his coverage/side line to side line range isn't in question here, it's his run stopping ability in how he's missed on a lot of tackles when that's simply not the case from what I've seen or what the stats show.

And we didn't get torched by TEs either. Everyone points to the NE games when their TEs carved up most defenses anyway. In reality Denver was middle of the pack against TEs, giving up on average 41 yards a game to TEs.Watch the playoff game against the Pats. Mays (and DJ as well)is exposed all the time. He consistently sits way too wide and way too shallow in the zone opening up a huge seam in the center of the defense. All night long my friend who coaches football, but never watches the Broncos was asking "who's this guy (pointing to Mays)" and saying how out of position he was.

Obvious passing downs are one thing. There are a lot of teams that throw the ball on early (not obvious passing) downs, and Mays is a liability in that.

Bmore Manning
04-25-2012, 09:39 AM
they did, that's why some project him as more of a 3-4 OLB than 4-3 MLB or SLB. i think he can play both and give you a dynamic rush/MLB combo.
if you were to team he and Von up it would definitely make the LB corps a lot stronger and certainly more interesting. but with Mays being signed to a deal i would imagine they'll go for a pure OLB over a MLB.

Hightower is diverse like Miller, you said it, that would be a dynamic duo. Imagine him on the strong side edge in the 5-2 43 over
Front with Miller coming behind him and Ayers at UT on third downs..

Lestat
04-25-2012, 10:00 AM
Hightower is diverse like Miller, you said it, that would be a dynamic duo. Imagine him on the strong side edge in the 5-2 43 over
Front with Miller coming behind him and Ayers at UT on third downs..

that's just sexy :sunshine:

fontaine
04-25-2012, 11:35 AM
Watch the playoff game against the Pats. Mays (and DJ as well)is exposed all the time. He consistently sits way too wide and way too shallow in the zone opening up a huge seam in the center of the defense. All night long my friend who coaches football, but never watches the Broncos was asking "who's this guy (pointing to Mays)" and saying how out of position he was.

Obvious passing downs are one thing. There are a lot of teams that throw the ball on early (not obvious passing) downs, and Mays is a liability in that.

I didn't rewatch the playoff game and track the playoff game. I'll take your word on it and if he didn't setup right then it's something I hope Del Rio will highlight and drill into him again and again and again!

Houshyamama
04-25-2012, 12:08 PM
Joe Mays is awesome because his name isn't Nate Webster.

Requiem
04-25-2012, 12:28 PM
Joe Mays is a legend. Dude is HUGE in person.

houghtam
04-25-2012, 12:46 PM
Joe Mays is awesome because his name isn't Nate Webster.

Yes. It most definitely could be worse. Much, much worse.

Dedhed
04-25-2012, 01:29 PM
Joe Mays is awesome because his name isn't Nate Webster.

I vomit in my mouth a little every time I hear that name. That LB group had to be the worst in history.

houghtam
04-25-2012, 01:50 PM
I vomit in my mouth a little every time I hear that name. That LB group had to be the worst in history.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Requiem
04-25-2012, 01:51 PM
I'm excited to see what Jack Del Rio can do for our linebackers. I'm also hopeful we will get a WOLB in this draft. :)

cutthemdown
04-25-2012, 02:04 PM
I agree with Req. It's time to draft DJ Williams replacement. That dude is wearing out his welcome. Woodyard, Mays IMO are more like role players. Not sure if they can be starters on a dominant defense.

Broncos need some young linebackers and corners in this draft.

cutthemdown
04-25-2012, 02:05 PM
Hightower is diverse like Miller, you said it, that would be a dynamic duo. Imagine him on the strong side edge in the 5-2 43 over
Front with Miller coming behind him and Ayers at UT on third downs..

Most mock drafts have hightower gone by our pick. He does look good though.

hambone13
04-25-2012, 06:58 PM
Good point. This is probably a lot better phrasing than simply "missing tackles". He missed a few tackles here and there, but over-committed and played out of position a lot.

Here's to hoping he can fill whatever role it is EFX have for him.

I really enjoyed his humility in general. It has to be rough to be in the off-season, contract in tow and wonder. I can't put it all together as to why I liked his presentation of himself other than it collectively seemed genuine. I found it interesting, that he was "football bright" enough to casually incorporate Del Rio's playing career with some fairly significant expectations of a coach and the position he hopes to be excellent at. He sees roots that lead to a head coaching and/or D-Coordinator job. If he's willing to do that kind of study and is enthusiastic about the nuances of the future, he might not be the most talented guy but he is striving to be the most informed guy. I think that's valuable. I just his liked his character. I'd hire him.