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View Full Version : Jim Plunkett More Hall Of Fame Worthy Than John Elway?


Bronco Rob
04-24-2012, 01:52 AM
Oakland Raiders Quarterback Jim Plunkett vs. Denver Broncos Quarterback John Elway: Fan Take


By K.C. Dermody | Yahoo! Contributor Network 13 hours ago



One of the biggest injustices in the history of the NFL, in my opinion, is the fact that the Oakland Raiders' former great quarterback, Jim Plunkett, has not been inducted into the Hall of Fame. When speaking with Raider fans, Plunkett is one of the names that comes up the most as deserving of the honor, despite the fact that there is a glaring gap in the Hall of Fame where the silver and black #16 jersey should be.



With the NFL Draft this week, I was reminded of both Plunkett and another famous quarterback, John Elway, who both were drafted out of Stanford University. Both players won two Super Bowls and were named Super Bowl MVP, yet Elway has been inducted into the Hall of Fame and Plunkett has not.



Plunkett's rise to fame was a much more difficult one than that of Elway's, and the fact that he achieved so much in spite of what he faced signals a much greater strength than the former Bronco ever had.



As many Raider fans know, Plunkett's parents were both legally blind. The family struggled to make ends meet and Plunkett delivered newspapers to earn money while he still found time to achieve success both at school and in football. In his freshman year at Stanford, he had to have surgery to remove a benign tumor on his neck, slowing his progress. By his junior year, however, Stanford coach Jim Sweeney proclaimed him, "The best college football player I've ever seen."



John Elway, on the other hand, grew up with father Jack Elway, a successful football player and head football coach at both Stanford and San Jose State. Although it may have been difficult to live up to Dad's expectations, he certainly didn't have the financial struggles that Plunkett had to face in childhood and his father also came with a lot of connections.



Plunkett was eligible to enter the NFL Draft after his junior year but turned down the opportunity to set a good example to the Chicano youth he had tutored, passing up the huge paycheck. In his senior year in 1970 he led his team to their first Rose Bowl since 1952 and was drafted with the first overall pick with the New England Patriots in 1971.



Elway did not take the Cardinal to a bowl game but was selected as the first overall pick in 1983 by the Baltimore Colts. In addition to his success in college football, he'd spent some time playing in the minor leagues for the New York Yankees, and because he didn't want to be a part of the Baltimore team he threatened to join the Yankees full time unless the Colts traded him and he became a member of the Denver Broncos.



Elway, of course, went on to lead Denver to two Super Bowl titles and was named to the Pro Bowl nine times, with a rather smooth ride to his induction into the Hall of Fame in the class of 2004.



Plunkett had a much bumpier ride on the way to his great achievements. His first year with the Patriots was fairly successful and he was named the AFC Rookie of the Year. In subsequent years, the Patriots' weak offensive line resulted in Plunkett taking a beating and he quickly faded suffering from a number of injuries.



In 1978, Plunkett joined the Raiders after a short failed stint with the San Francisco 49ers. With Oakland, he became what he should have been all along, and what the Silver and Black allowed him to be, becoming a Super Bowl champion twice and a Super Bowl MVP.



The Raiders' late owner Al Davis remarked, "He has to be one of the great comeback stories of our time."



Yet, Elway is in the NFL Hall of Fame and Plunkett is not. To me, Plunkett deserves the honor far more than the man who whined his way to Denver. When I asked Plunkett last month his thoughts on being excluded, as I wrote following our conversation on March 12, he answered, "It's up to the voters. I had a great career and two Super Bowl wins. If I don't get in, I don't get in."



Of course, Raider Nation knows who the true champ is in our hearts, and that will always be Plunkett. One of the best men, and best players to ever step foot onto a football field.




http://sports.yahoo.com/news/oakland-raiders-quarterback-jim-plunkett-vs-denver-broncos-175100988--nfl.html

Dexter
04-24-2012, 01:57 AM
With the amount of Broncos consistently snubbed for the HoF, the Raiders get ZERO sympathy from me.

Oh and taking a dump on Elway is a classy way to try to convince someone that Plunkett is HoF worthy.

****ty journalism.

Archer81
04-24-2012, 02:13 AM
No "all of the above" option?


:Broncos:

BroncoMan4ever
04-24-2012, 02:29 AM
Give me a break. Comparing college records is idiotic. Plunket won when surrounded by talent, Elway carried teams. Also look at the pro stats. Plunket couldnt lift Elway's jock

Drek
04-24-2012, 04:01 AM
John Elway Pro Bowl Selections: 9
Jim Plunkett Pro Bowl Selections: 0

John Elway TD:INT ratio: 300:226
Jim Plunkett TD:INT ratio: 164:198

John Elway total passing yards: 51475
Jim Plunkett total passing yards: 25882

John Elway career QB rating: 79.9
Jim Plunket career QB rating: 67.5

Yep. Very comparable careers.

That One Guy
04-24-2012, 06:19 AM
The omission of the number of total super bowls for each tells me Plunkett probably didn't have many.

Mediator12
04-24-2012, 06:42 AM
Drek made a great statistical argument, but the HOF comes down to the BEST player and playmaker at his position for a number of years. Plunkett will forever fall short of that standard. Elway helped define playmaker during his tenure.

It's nothing but an emotional plea of the Raiders glory years where everyone looks better in hindsight. Plunkett's teams where also much more talented and balanced than during Elway's early years as well. He was much more of a cog, than a playmaker.

Brandon29
04-24-2012, 06:49 AM
Why should Elway's upbringing and college career matter? It's about what he did in the pros, as pointed out by Drek. Plunkett should get in because he has a better sob story? Please.

FantomForce
04-24-2012, 07:10 AM
damn you guys are missing the point! Plunkett had the hard life and Elway was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. A silver spoon that he traded in at the HOF in order be inducted. Don't you get it numbers don't mean squat it is all about how hard your life was before you were in the NFL.

SARCASAM

colorado jones
04-24-2012, 07:19 AM
Rubbish.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
04-24-2012, 07:19 AM
No "all of the above" option?


:Broncos:

This.

socalorado
04-24-2012, 07:20 AM
damn you guys are missing the point! Plunkett had the hard life and Elway was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. A silver spoon that he traded in at the HOF in order be inducted. Don't you get it numbers don't mean squat it is all about how hard your life was before you were in the NFL.

SARCASAM

Yep. You whine, bitch, piss and moan about how hard someone had it, and then they get what they want when you give in and give it to them even though they dont deserve it.
Some moran writes up a big bitch festival of a paragraph, and were supposed to buy in and just give Plunkett a HOF spot?
I know! Why doesnt the writer ask Plunkett what he thinks of John Elway?
Ask Plunkett to compare his career to Elways, and see what he says.
What a stupid method of trying to convince folks Plunkett desreves something. Cause someone else didnt have the same life as Plunkett.
I bet if you asked Plunkett about his life he wouldnt trade it for anything else!.
Those difficulties built character in Plunkett which allowed him to accomplish what he has done.

rodr88
04-24-2012, 07:27 AM
Typical of most raider fans I know. (Especially my father-in-law) They seem to think that every player that ever wore the silver and black belongs in the HOF. Give them 20 years and that pack of idiots will be screaming the jamarcus russell belongs in the HOF and the only reason he isn't is the league wide hatred for the raiders.

BTW I heard al making some of the same comments at one of his last pressors. I think he was introducing the coach before dennis allen and al got to mumbling and bashing John for losing 3 SB's and taking 17 years to win a SB. Seriously it was embarrassing, that may be why they quit letting al near a microphone those last few months.

Jesterhole
04-24-2012, 07:37 AM
I love that all he can say is "he won 2 Super Bowls too". No other mention or comparisons of their careers. This is as bad as sports writing gets.

TheChamp24
04-24-2012, 08:00 AM
This is journalism these days? This is the **** that gets published?
http://static.fjcdn.com/comments/Sweet+mother+of+Steve+Irwin+s+Sting+Ray+proof+vest s+is+_3af82752f6304ffdda12fa02fd01e629.jpg

Jason in LA
04-24-2012, 08:03 AM
Wait, that was produced by somebody that is considered a writer? Is Yahoo publishing anybody's work now?

The guy didn't make any valid points about why Plunkett should be in the HOF. Sounds like a good story that he over came hardships growing up, but that doesn't have anything to do with making it to the HOF. Neither does the community service that he performed while in college. And how does this writer know that Elway didn't perform community service? Seems like he just tossed that in there.

Winning the Rose Bowl doesn't get a player in the NFL HOF. That was another useless point by the writer.

The writer failed to use any valid comparison's between the two players. No stats? Why, because the stats would make his argument look stupid. Pro Bowls was 9 to 0, and this guy thinks that Plunkett was more deserving?

I can't believe anybody wrote that, and I can't believe Yahoo published it.

WolfpackGuy
04-24-2012, 08:09 AM
Most of Plunkett's career was before my time, but more deserving of the HOF than Elway who was one of the best ever even without the two rings?

Come on, man!

Kaylore
04-24-2012, 08:41 AM
John Elway Pro Bowl Selections: 9
Jim Plunkett Pro Bowl Selections: 0

John Elway TD:INT ratio: 300:226
Jim Plunkett TD:INT ratio: 164:198

John Elway total passing yards: 51475
Jim Plunkett total passing yards: 25882

John Elway career QB rating: 79.9
Jim Plunket career QB rating: 67.5

Yep. Very comparable careers.

A Raider fan would say "both were drafted out of Stanford University. Both players won two Super Bowls and were named Super Bowl MVP, both have eyes, both have two hands, both used their mouths to eat food, and yet one is in the hall of fame and the other is not!"

✡✡ JOSHUA ✡✡
04-24-2012, 08:54 AM
Saying Elway "whined" his way to Denver is disingenuous. The whole ordeal was between a college coaching feud between his dad Jack and Frank Kush. They hated each other's guts and fortunately Elway had leverage (Yankees baseball career to fallback upon) and used it to his advantage. His situation is completely different from Eli Manning.


Plunkett was one hell of a player, but just think he never enjoyed enough sustained success to meet HOF standards. Even when Plunkett was still a disappointment, he got traded from New England to San Francisco for two 1st round picks in 1976, a 1st and a 2nd round pick in 1977 and quarterback Tom Owen. That's six years into his career and he is still getting traded for "franchise QB" value.

Rohirrim
04-24-2012, 09:00 AM
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100318024248/southpark/images/thumb/e/e9/ScottTenormanMustDie30.gif/200px-ScottTenormanMustDie30.gif

errand
04-24-2012, 09:05 AM
The omission of the number of total super bowls for each tells me Plunkett probably didn't have many.

Plunkett was 2-0 in SB's....which is great. And he was a class act. Having said that, he never carried his teams (and he played for some crappy NE and SF teams) and threw more INT's than TD's (however alot of 70's era QB's did too) and his numbers pale in comparison to many of his contemporaries, let alone Elway.

you could make a better argument that craig morton deserves to be in the hall of fame before you could jim plunkett..... morton has more touchdown passes than joe namath (183-173)..... he also has more passing yards (27,908-27,663)..... hell, terry bradshaw (81) and ken stabler (30) barely have more passing yards than craig does... the only thing he doesn't have going for him is the fact that he did not win a superbowl as a starting quarterback. he also is the only quarterback to have ever taken team to the superbowl in both conferences. (Dallas-Denver)

jim plunkett's career and journey through adversity is a great feel good story.... but he does not belong in the hall of fame, and he certainly does not belong in it before john elway.

Gort
04-24-2012, 09:39 AM
tl ; dr

is this an affirmative action argument this guy is making?

TheReverend
04-24-2012, 09:42 AM
This is every bit as crazy as trading a 2nd for Mallet.

Wes Mantooth
04-24-2012, 10:12 AM
Sounds like the Raiders really did not lobby enough with journalists when they had the opportunity. May never happen.

Pick Six
04-24-2012, 10:17 AM
Saying Elway "whined" his way to Denver is disingenuous. The whole ordeal was between a college coaching feud between his dad Jack and Frank Kush. They hated each other's guts and fortunately Elway had leverage (Yankees baseball career to fallback upon) and used it to his advantage. His situation is completely different from Eli Manning.


Plunkett was one hell of a player, but just think he never enjoyed enough sustained success to meet HOF standards. Even when Plunkett was still a disappointment, he got traded from New England to San Francisco for two 1st round picks in 1976, a 1st and a 2nd round pick in 1977 and quarterback Tom Owen. That's six years into his career and he is still getting traded for "franchise QB" value.

The "whining" statement discredited the whole article, IMO. Until then, he was actually making a pretty good case for Plunkett to be in the HOF...

24champ
04-24-2012, 10:28 AM
John Elway Pro Bowl Selections: 9
Jim Plunkett Pro Bowl Selections: 0

John Elway TD:INT ratio: 300:226
Jim Plunkett TD:INT ratio: 164:198

John Elway total passing yards: 51475
Jim Plunkett total passing yards: 25882

John Elway career QB rating: 79.9
Jim Plunket career QB rating: 67.5

Yep. Very comparable careers.

:giggle:

/end thread

Tombstone RJ
04-24-2012, 10:29 AM
Whaaa!! Boohoo!! Hey, why isn't Stabler in the HOF too!! Whaa!!

The faiders are still living off their 1970's players. Its.all.they.have.

Powderaddict
04-24-2012, 10:50 AM
WTF

canadianbroncosfan
04-24-2012, 12:14 PM
John Elway Pro Bowl Selections: 9
Jim Plunkett Pro Bowl Selections: 0

John Elway TD:INT ratio: 300:226
Jim Plunkett TD:INT ratio: 164:198

John Elway total passing yards: 51475
Jim Plunkett total passing yards: 25882

John Elway career QB rating: 79.9
Jim Plunket career QB rating: 67.5

Yep. Very comparable careers.

^ all of these

errand
04-24-2012, 12:44 PM
Whaaa!! Boohoo!! Hey, why isn't Stabler in the HOF too!! Whaa!!

The faiders are still living off their 1970's players. Its.all.they.have.

Plunkett's Raider days was in the 80's...just saying. but having said that....

how many Raider fans does it take to screw in a light bulb?

all of them...one to screw in the bulb, while all the rest of them talk about how great the old bulb was.......

houghtam
04-24-2012, 01:04 PM
tl ; dr

is this an affirmative action argument this guy is making?

That's exactly what it sounded like. I suppose Kenny Walker should have made the HOF too? LOL

This quote though got me thinking:

Plunkett's rise to fame was a much more difficult one than that of Elway's, and the fact that he achieved so much in spite of what he faced signals a much greater strength than the former Bronco ever had.


That's the same argument that I've heard from a lot of Broncos fans over the years regarding Rod Smith...that his performance in the NFL vis a vis his being undrafted should give him more weight for HOF consideration. I'm sure that's going to start a war here, but I think this article is a pretty good indicator that a player's road through the NFL and what what was expected from him should not have bearing on whether they are inducted into the Hall or not.

Gort
04-24-2012, 01:06 PM
how many Raider fans does it take to screw in a light bulb?

all of them...one to screw in the bulb, while all the rest of them talk about how great the old bulb was.......

the ghost of Al Davis is not amused.

http://balladeer.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/al-davis2.jpg

Steve Sewell
04-24-2012, 02:40 PM
Oakland Raiders Quarterback Jim Plunkett vs. Denver Broncos Quarterback John Elway: Fan Take


By K.C. Dermody | Yahoo! Contributor Network 13 hours ago



One of the biggest injustices in the history of the NFL, in my opinion, is the fact that the Oakland Raiders' former great quarterback, Jim Plunkett, has not been inducted into the Hall of Fame. When speaking with Raider fans, Plunkett is one of the names that comes up the most as deserving of the honor, despite the fact that there is a glaring gap in the Hall of Fame where the silver and black #16 jersey should be.



With the NFL Draft this week, I was reminded of both Plunkett and another famous quarterback, John Elway, who both were drafted out of Stanford University. Both players won two Super Bowls and were named Super Bowl MVP, yet Elway has been inducted into the Hall of Fame and Plunkett has not.



Plunkett's rise to fame was a much more difficult one than that of Elway's, and the fact that he achieved so much in spite of what he faced signals a much greater strength than the former Bronco ever had.



As many Raider fans know, Plunkett's parents were both legally blind. The family struggled to make ends meet and Plunkett delivered newspapers to earn money while he still found time to achieve success both at school and in football. In his freshman year at Stanford, he had to have surgery to remove a benign tumor on his neck, slowing his progress. By his junior year, however, Stanford coach Jim Sweeney proclaimed him, "The best college football player I've ever seen."



John Elway, on the other hand, grew up with father Jack Elway, a successful football player and head football coach at both Stanford and San Jose State. Although it may have been difficult to live up to Dad's expectations, he certainly didn't have the financial struggles that Plunkett had to face in childhood and his father also came with a lot of connections.



Plunkett was eligible to enter the NFL Draft after his junior year but turned down the opportunity to set a good example to the Chicano youth he had tutored, passing up the huge paycheck. In his senior year in 1970 he led his team to their first Rose Bowl since 1952 and was drafted with the first overall pick with the New England Patriots in 1971.



Elway did not take the Cardinal to a bowl game but was selected as the first overall pick in 1983 by the Baltimore Colts. In addition to his success in college football, he'd spent some time playing in the minor leagues for the New York Yankees, and because he didn't want to be a part of the Baltimore team he threatened to join the Yankees full time unless the Colts traded him and he became a member of the Denver Broncos.



Elway, of course, went on to lead Denver to two Super Bowl titles and was named to the Pro Bowl nine times, with a rather smooth ride to his induction into the Hall of Fame in the class of 2004.



Plunkett had a much bumpier ride on the way to his great achievements. His first year with the Patriots was fairly successful and he was named the AFC Rookie of the Year. In subsequent years, the Patriots' weak offensive line resulted in Plunkett taking a beating and he quickly faded suffering from a number of injuries.



In 1978, Plunkett joined the Raiders after a short failed stint with the San Francisco 49ers. With Oakland, he became what he should have been all along, and what the Silver and Black allowed him to be, becoming a Super Bowl champion twice and a Super Bowl MVP.



The Raiders' late owner Al Davis remarked, "He has to be one of the great comeback stories of our time."



Yet, Elway is in the NFL Hall of Fame and Plunkett is not. To me, Plunkett deserves the honor far more than the man who whined his way to Denver. When I asked Plunkett last month his thoughts on being excluded, as I wrote following our conversation on March 12, he answered, "It's up to the voters. I had a great career and two Super Bowl wins. If I don't get in, I don't get in."



Of course, Raider Nation knows who the true champ is in our hearts, and that will always be Plunkett. One of the best men, and best players to ever step foot onto a football field.




http://sports.yahoo.com/news/oakland-raiders-quarterback-jim-plunkett-vs-denver-broncos-175100988--nfl.html
http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l7gfq0RHZS1qdol23o1_400.jpg

OBF1
04-24-2012, 02:45 PM
Where is the writer is an idiot for writing this..... and the OP is running neck in neck in the idiot department for posting this crap option???

TDmvp
04-24-2012, 02:47 PM
K.C. Dermody Yahoo! Contributor.


http://slicktiger.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/never_go_full_retard.png

Bronco Rob
04-26-2012, 12:08 AM
K.C. Dermody Yahoo! Contributor.


http://slicktiger.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/never_go_full_retard.png




:thumbs:

mwill07
04-26-2012, 05:31 AM
Plunkett won 2 SB's as an injury replacement. He came off the bench when Pastorini got hurt in 1980, and when Wilson got hurt in 1983. In other words, the raiders didn't consider Plunkett starting material when they had a choice.

Plunkett was a great back-up QB. A more interesting debate is if Plunkett was a better back-up than Earl Morrall (also won a SB off the bench, won 11 of 1972 Dolphins 17 games, and went 13-1 for Bal in 1968, replacing Unitas.

When the HoF dilutes enough to make room for bench role-players, Plunkett will get a shot.

Bronco Rob
04-26-2012, 12:10 PM
Plunkett won 2 SB's as an injury replacement. He came off the bench when Pastorini got hurt in 1980, and when Wilson got hurt in 1983. In other words, the raiders didn't consider Plunkett starting material when they had a choice.

Plunkett was a great back-up QB. A more interesting debate is if Plunkett was a better back-up than Earl Morrall (also won a SB off the bench, won 11 of 1972 Dolphins 17 games, and went 13-1 for Bal in 1968, replacing Unitas.

When the HoF dilutes enough to make room for bench role-players, Plunkett will get a shot.


maybe Yahoo! should have had you write the article instead.