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View Full Version : Interesting but prolly irrelevant data: what rounds were our "starters" drafted in?


orinjkrush
04-23-2012, 01:06 PM
Position Player's Initials Round drafted
Offense
WR: DT: 1st
LT: RC: 1st
LG: ZB: 2nd
C: JW: 3rd
RG: CK: 5th
RT: OF: 2nd
TE: JD: 6th
WR: ED: 5th
WR: BS: 4th
QB: PM: 1st
RB: WM: 1st

Defense
DE: RA: 1st
DT: TW: 1st
DT: KV: 7th
DE: ED: 4th
LB: VM: 1st
LB: DJW: 1st
LB: JM: 6th
CB: CB: 1st
CB: TP: 2nd
S: MA: undrafted
S: QC: 4th

12 outta 22 in either first or second. And that doesn't count KM: 1st, or RM 2nd.

Does it mean anything regarding the upcoming draft? Beats me, but it is interesting.
:yayaya:

Drunken.Broncoholic
04-23-2012, 01:13 PM
Giants had 3 players drafted in the 6th last year that contributed in their SB run. A little easier to hit in the 1st than miss. But you can get contributers in all rounds.

broncosteven
04-23-2012, 01:23 PM
Giants had 3 players drafted in the 6th last year that contributed in their SB run. A little easier to hit in the 1st than miss. But you can get contributers in all rounds.

Yep, I looked it up a while back but their DL rotation all came from the mid rounds outside of maybe 1 2nd round pick.

lolcopter
04-23-2012, 01:50 PM
Player abbreviations are as annoying as your avatar is a man

Drunken.Broncoholic
04-23-2012, 01:56 PM
Player abbreviations are as annoying as your avatar is a man

I do agree. But isnt lol an abbreviation?

Requiem
04-23-2012, 01:59 PM
Hey thanks for taking the time to do this.

pricejj
04-23-2012, 02:24 PM
I could go for upgrades at everybody who isn't a 1st or 2nd round pick, except for Dumervil, and Decker (depending on how good he does this year). That leaves 4 positions on Offense (C, OG, TE, and WR), and 3 positions on Defense (DT, MLB, and SS (still holding out hope at FS for Moore)).

lonestar
04-23-2012, 02:25 PM
Position Player's Initials Round drafted
Offense
WR: DT: 1st
LT: RC: 1st
LG: ZB: 2nd
C: JW: 3rd
RG: CK: 5th
RT: OF: 2nd
TE: JD: 6th
WR: ED: 5th
WR: BS: 4th
QB: PM: 1st
RB: WM: 1st

Defense
DE: RA: 1st
DT: TW: 1st
DT: KV: 7th
DE: ED: 4th
LB: VM: 1st
LB: DJW: 1st
LB: JM: 6th
CB: CB: 1st
CB: TP: 2nd
S: MA: undrafted
S: QC: 4th

12 outta 22 in either first or second. And that doesn't count KM: 1st, or RM 2nd.

Does it mean anything regarding the upcoming draft? Beats me, but it is interesting.
:yayaya:

Thanks for thanking the time to do that..

all it means is MOST if not all starters are rounds 1-3 with the rest being depth or special teams..

there is a RARE bird that comes after round 3 but they are few and far between..

just goes to show that mikey was the key to our demise.. at least in the war room.. he was a brilliant OC..

ONLY 6 of 41 round 1-3 guys resigned a second contract during his REGIME.. so our starters those days were mostly rounds 4 or later.. or I should say our keepers.. the rest were not worth resigning..

CEH
04-23-2012, 02:35 PM
The Jacksonville Jaguars have waived S Darcel McBath

Mogulseeker
04-23-2012, 02:37 PM
I think Tamme will be the starting TE next year, but I think Dreesen will have equal playing time.

Mogulseeker
04-23-2012, 02:38 PM
The Jacksonville Jaguars have waived S Darcel McBath

I would love to bring him back in because he showed some decent flashes. Problem he was always unhealthy.

Del Rio might give him a look.

orinjkrush
04-23-2012, 03:50 PM
Player abbreviations are as annoying as your avatar is a man

sorry bout the acronyms, i thought they would be obvious.

that's the point of my avatar. very disquieting.

Chris
04-23-2012, 04:01 PM
sorry bout the acronyms, i thought they would be obvious.

that's the point of my avatar. very disquieting.

On a more important subject, I would find your avatar slightly more appealing if you thickened up her arm a bit in photoshop.

mkporter
04-23-2012, 04:07 PM
Position Player's Initials Round drafted
Offense
WR: DT: 1st
LT: RC: 1st
LG: ZB: 2nd
C: JW: 3rd
RG: CK: 5th
RT: OF: 2nd
TE: JD: 6th
WR: ED: 5th
WR: BS: 4th
QB: PM: 1st
RB: WM: 1st

Defense
DE: RA: 1st
DT: TW: 1st
DT: KV: 7th
DE: ED: 4th
LB: VM: 1st
LB: DJW: 1st
LB: JM: 6th
CB: CB: 1st
CB: TP: 2nd
S: MA: undrafted
S: QC: 4th

12 outta 22 in either first or second. And that doesn't count KM: 1st, or RM 2nd.

Does it mean anything regarding the upcoming draft? Beats me, but it is interesting.
:yayaya:

Just so I can be that guy, Decker was a 3rd rounder, not a 5th.

Blueflame
04-23-2012, 04:16 PM
On a more important subject, I would find your avatar slightly more appealing if you thickened up her arm a bit in photoshop.

I think you mean "his" arm...

HILife
04-23-2012, 04:18 PM
Just so I can be that guy, Decker was a 3rd rounder, not a 5th.

I noticed that too.

Chris
04-23-2012, 04:48 PM
This is totally relevant, though I'm not sure our team is the best way to judge since we could use upgrades in a lot of places. Then again, looking at the Pats, they seem pretty unconventional. I want to do one more the Giants (heavy on D Line) and the Steelers (scheme fits).

Offense

QB Tom Brady 6 *star
RB The Law Firm UDFA
WR Wes Welker UDFA *star
TE Rob "I wanna **** Tebow" Gronkowski 2 *star
LT Matt Light 2
LG Logan Mankins 1 (last pick) *star
C Dan Conolly UDFA
RG Brian Waters UDFA
RT Nate Solder 1

Defense (3-4 version - shows more players)

DE Shaun Ellis 1 *former star
DE Mark Anderson 5
NT Vince Wilfork 1 *star
LOLB Tracy Wright UDFA
LILB Jarod Mayo 1
RILB Dane Fletcher UDFA
ROLB Rob Ninkovich 5
CB Devin Mccourty 1
CB Kyle Arrington UDFA
FS Patrick Chung 2
SS James Ihedigbo UDFA

Lot of UDFAs there on both sides of the ball. Then again, their D is mediocre at best. A lot of underperforming 1st rounders on D.

Drunken.Broncoholic
04-23-2012, 05:06 PM
This is totally relevant, though I'm not sure our team is the best way to judge since we could use upgrades in a lot of places. Then again, looking at the Pats, they seem pretty unconventional. I want to do one more the Giants (heavy on D Line) and the Steelers (scheme fits).

Offense

QB Tom Brady 6 *star
RB The Law Firm UDFA
WR Wes Welker UDFA *star
TE Rob "I wanna **** Tebow" Gronkowski 2 *star
LT Matt Light 2
LG Logan Mankins 1 (last pick) *star
C Dan Conolly UDFA
RG Brian Waters UDFA
RT Nate Solder 1

Defense (3-4 version - shows more players)

DE Shaun Ellis 1 *former star
DE Mark Anderson 5
NT Vince Wilfork 1 *star
LOLB Tracy Wright UDFA
LILB Jarod Mayo 1
RILB Dane Fletcher UDFA
ROLB Rob Ninkovich 5
CB Devin Mccourty 1
CB Kyle Arrington UDFA
FS Patrick Chung 2
SS James Ihedigbo UDFA

Lot of UDFAs there on both sides of the ball. Then again, their D is mediocre at best. A lot of underperforming 1st rounders on D.

The secondary on this list? Could be why they were Among the worst in the league.

lonestar
04-23-2012, 05:08 PM
This is totally relevant, though I'm not sure our team is the best way to judge since we could use upgrades in a lot of places. Then again, looking at the Pats, they seem pretty unconventional. I want to do one more the Giants (heavy on D Line) and the Steelers (scheme fits).

Offense

QB Tom Brady 6 *star
RB The Law Firm UDFA
WR Wes Welker UDFA *star
TE Rob "I wanna **** Tebow" Gronkowski 2 *star
LT Matt Light 2
LG Logan Mankins 1 (last pick) *star
C Dan Conolly UDFA
RG Brian Waters UDFA
RT Nate Solder 1

Defense (3-4 version - shows more players)

DE Shaun Ellis 1 *former star
DE Mark Anderson 5
NT Vince Wilfork 1 *star
LOLB Tracy Wright UDFA
LILB Jarod Mayo 1
RILB Dane Fletcher UDFA
ROLB Rob Ninkovich 5
CB Devin Mccourty 1
CB Kyle Arrington UDFA
FS Patrick Chung 2
SS James Ihedigbo UDFA

Lot of UDFAs there on both sides of the ball. Then again, their D is mediocre at best. A lot of underperforming 1st rounders on D.

But then the PAts have been the class of the league since our Superbowl wins..

CEH
04-23-2012, 05:21 PM
This is totally relevant, though I'm not sure our team is the best way to judge since we could use upgrades in a lot of places. Then again, looking at the Pats, they seem pretty unconventional. I want to do one more the Giants (heavy on D Line) and the Steelers (scheme fits).

Offense

QB Tom Brady 6 *star
RB The Law Firm UDFA
WR Wes Welker UDFA *star
TE Rob "I wanna **** Tebow" Gronkowski 2 *star
LT Matt Light 2
LG Logan Mankins 1 (last pick) *star
C Dan Conolly UDFA
RG Brian Waters UDFA
RT Nate Solder 1

Defense (3-4 version - shows more players)

DE Shaun Ellis 1 *former star
DE Mark Anderson 5
NT Vince Wilfork 1 *star
LOLB Tracy Wright UDFA
LILB Jarod Mayo 1
RILB Dane Fletcher UDFA
ROLB Rob Ninkovich 5
CB Devin Mccourty 1
CB Kyle Arrington UDFA
FS Patrick Chung 2
SS James Ihedigbo UDFA

Lot of UDFAs there on both sides of the ball. Then again, their D is mediocre at best. A lot of underperforming 1st rounders on D.

Look at the 98 Broncos
offense had 2 1st round players none drafted by Denver. The defense had more 1st rounders

Welker cost NE a 2nd and a 7th and there is talk of Mccourty moving to safety. If true a wasted first round CB pick

houghtam
04-23-2012, 05:21 PM
ONLY 6 of 41 round 1-3 guys resigned a second contract during his REGIME..

I got sick to my stomach reading that.

pricejj
04-23-2012, 05:24 PM
The secondary on this list? Could be why they were Among the worst in the league.

You can't count Welker or Waters...they were both successful before they got to NE, and we're FA's who got sizeable contracts. Also, former 1st rounder, FA signing, Andre Carter DE was a starter for NE last year that made the Pro Bowl.

Basically, they have 1 guy on Offense, and 4 guys on Defense (same as us), who were low draft picks/non Pro Bowlers. It's no wonder their Offense is All-World, and ours was...well...not very good...and neither Defense is very good.

Chris
04-23-2012, 05:26 PM
You can't count Welker or Waters...they were both successful before they got to NE, and we're FA's who got sizeable contracts. Also, former 1st rounder, FA signing, Andre Carter DE was a starter for NE last year that made the Pro Bowl.

He made the bowl? THoguht he got hurt and missed a quarter of the season. He didn't appear on either ESPN's 4-3 or 3-4 depth charts, which I thought was weird.

pricejj
04-23-2012, 05:32 PM
He made the bowl? THoguht he got hurt and missed a quarter of the season. He didn't appear on either ESPN's 4-3 or 3-4 depth charts, which I thought was weird.

Yeah, he got hurt against the Broncos (1st meeting)...but he made the Patriots single game sack record during the season, and made the Pro Bowl.

FireFly
04-23-2012, 05:41 PM
What I take from that list is that 1st and 2nd rounders are SO much more important to have than round 3 and beyond.

Sure, there are some teams that get quality in all rounds, but they're the exception imo and we're not among them. I've always been a pro-trade down and get more picks guy but at this point, with our team, I'd rather more picks in rounds 1 and 2 even at the expense of later rounds. We need better prospects, not more prospects.

It's like the damn Tom Brady argument that I always hear: Brady was drafted in the 6th so getting a QB in the later rounds is a great idea! Give me a 1st round QB over any other QB in any other round! The chances of hitting gold beyond the 4th are pretty slim. There are LOTS of players that wash out of the league... Does anyone know the retention rate for draftees selected in rounds 4 or later relative to those selected in the 1st 2 rounds?

Chris
04-23-2012, 06:03 PM
Giants

Offense

QB Eli Manning Round 1 *star
RB Ahmad Bradshaw Round 7
WR Hakeem Nicks Round 1 *star
WR Victor Cruz UDFA *star
TE Jake Ballard UDFA
LT David Diehl Round 5
LG Kevin Boothe Round 6
C David Baas Round 2
RG Chris Snee Round 2
RT Kareem McKenzie Round 3

Defense

DE Justin Tuck Round 3 *star
DE Jason Pierre-Paul Round 1 *star
DE Osi Umenyiora *former star Round 2 (no longer a starter but figured I'd add him)
DT Linval Joseph Round 2
DT Chris Canty Round 4
WLB Michael Boley Round 5
MLB Chase Blackburn UDFA
SLB Mathias Kiwanuka Round 1 (last pick)
CB Corey Webster Round 2
CB Aaron Ross Round 1
FS Antrel Rolle Round 1
SS Kenny Phillips Round 1 (2nd last pick)

CEH
04-23-2012, 06:05 PM
In general Defense usually has more first round picks. That seems to be the case in the Pro Bowls.

Drunken.Broncoholic
04-23-2012, 07:07 PM
But then the PAts have been the class of the league since our Superbowl wins..

Giants own the pats in the SB. I would take coughlin Eli and the giants as having a lot more class than belichick Brady and the cheating pats.

houghtam
04-23-2012, 07:11 PM
It's like the damn Tom Brady argument that I always hear: Brady was drafted in the 6th so getting a QB in the later rounds is a great idea! Give me a 1st round QB over any other QB in any other round! The chances of hitting gold beyond the 4th are pretty slim. There are LOTS of players that wash out of the league... Does anyone know the retention rate for draftees selected in rounds 4 or later relative to those selected in the 1st 2 rounds?

I'm sure that information is out there somewhere on retention rate, but you're right not only about QBs, but any other position as well. Historically and statistically, players selected in the first round are most likely to make the Pro Bowl, All-Pro Team and HOF than second rounders, second rounders more likely than third rounders, and so on.

The draft is a critical part of building a quality team. Teams that draft well historically do well. It's pretty simple, actually.

That One Guy
04-23-2012, 07:30 PM
As was kinda pointed out, labeling Welker and Waters as UDFAs is kinda dishonest. They had both made their name so it wasn't like NE took a flyer on a nobody or developed an unknown player.

I guess I'm maybe missing what people are trying to derive from this information. Sure, we have a 1st rounder starting at RB. You can look at that as "that means elite players come at the top" or you can consider that we have another 1st rounder behind him in Moreno and we're STILL supposedly looking at potentially taking a RB in the 1st or 2nd round. I think pretty much all I discern from this table is that those drafted higher are more likely to be labelled starters over those drafted lower and schmucks can be drafted in any round.

lonestar
04-23-2012, 10:47 PM
I got sick to my stomach reading that.

Yet so many folks thought he walked on water..

great OC but beyond that screwed up in the head..

But But But "he won lots of games with 4th or later round picks.".


that folks he did but when it came to crunch time his teams folded in the playoffs because 4th rounders are not going to beat 1-3 rounders on a consistent basis..

he won ONE playoff game after Elway retired.. and in most of those playoff losses we got our asses kicked..


I also thought he walked on water untill I studied his piss poor DAFTING for most of his career here.. Then I became an advocate of Pat hiring a NFL experienced GM to handle all personnel decisions..

We all know his EGO would not handle that, but we would have had a great team to play with Talent to win IMPORTANT games, IF mikey would have been able to motivate them..

How many trap games did we get our asses kicked in..

How may late season loses because we folded like a cheap tent..

Start out great everyone excited then we lose more in the last half of the season than win.. 

/rant

houghtam
04-23-2012, 10:51 PM
Yet so many folks thought he walked on water..

great OC but beyond that screwed up in the head..

But But But "he won lots of games with 4th or later round picks.".


that folks he did but when it came to crunch time his teams folded in the playoffs because 4th rounders are not going to beat 1-3 rounders on a consistent basis..

he won ONE playoff game after Elway retired.. and in most of those playoff losses we got our asses kicked..


I also thought he walked on water untill I studied his piss poor DAFTING for most of his career here.. Then I became an advocate of Pat hiring a NFL experienced GM to handle all personnel decisions..

We all know his EGO would not handle that, but we would have had a great team to play with Talent to win IMPORTANT games, IF mikey would have been able to motivate them..

How many trap games did we get our asses kicked in..

How may late season loses because we folded like a cheap tent..

Start out great everyone excited then we lose more in the last half of the season than win.. 

/rant

Preaching to the choir, buddy. Preaching to the choir. One has to wonder if there would still be so much love for Shanahan if we hadn't replaced him with McDaniels.

lonestar
04-23-2012, 10:53 PM
Giants own the pats in the SB. I would take coughlin Eli and the giants as having a lot more class than belichick Brady and the cheating pats.

Just how many times have the giants been there since 2000 and then look at how many the Pats have..

did the giants beat them sure but on any given Sunday I'll take the Pats anyday..

Since Kraft bought the team few teams have been better consistently..

Which pisses me off because I had always thought Bowlen to be the best owner..



We had it in our hands coming off of 2 wins and probably should have been 3 titles but mikeys team choked against the Jags an expansion team..

but each year afterward we got a bit worse every year, not in record but winning against quality teams.. and in the Playoffs got our asses kicked every time but once..

lonestar
04-23-2012, 10:58 PM
I'm sure that information is out there somewhere on retention rate, but you're right not only about QBs, but any other position as well. Historically and statistically, players selected in the first round are most likely to make the Pro Bowl, All-Pro Team and HOF than second rounders, second rounders more likely than third rounders, and so on.

The draft is a critical part of building a quality team. Teams that draft well historically do well. It's pretty simple, actually.

look back at the PAts, PIT, BAL, and IIRC giants almost all of their team was home-grown..

here is my mantra, you build your team via the draft keep the player cut loose the ass clowns that are just there for the money., If you win at the LOS you are a consistent winner.

Offense wins regular season games, Defense wins all the marbles..

Your not going to hit a home run every year with your first pick but you better win more than you lose with picks 2-4..

orinjkrush
04-24-2012, 06:08 AM
I noticed that too.

yeah, the Bronco official site has him as a fifth:

http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/roster/Eric-Decker/48c2a608-4961-41d8-81f5-9c43a132f25f