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View Full Version : Anyone worried about the O-Line?


prunch
04-18-2012, 04:45 PM
DT, DT, DT .... yes agreed but does anyone feel the Walton/Beadles element of our O-Line on pass protection is weak sauce?

Last year, the QB plus unusual offense added a bunch to our rushing totals so I'm not sure we can assume that this year "we have the best rushing offense in the NFL". Combine that with the suspect pass protection from last year, I think we need to spend one of our first 3 picks as an upgrade of at least one of these two players.

From the confirmed visits thread, it appears OG is being looked at.

So, 1st 4 picks in no particular order:

OG/C, DT, RB and LB (who can defend TEs on passing downs)?

OBF1
04-18-2012, 04:55 PM
DT, DT, LB, LB, RB, OL

lonestar
04-18-2012, 05:00 PM
Actually it was Clady that lead the team in holding calls in fact alomsot a league leader IIRC..

Am I concerned about the rest of the OL sure.. Kuper coming off IR with ankle surgery AGAIN, franklin a much better run blocker than pass protect..

anyone I missed?

lonestar
04-18-2012, 05:01 PM
would never waste a first rounder on an Interior OL guy..

not when our real issue is and has been DT the past decade..

Mogulseeker
04-18-2012, 05:23 PM
Clady led the league in holding calls last year. He's still a very good OT, and we need to lock him up along with Kuper and Frankling.

Beadles and Walton are below-average, and not very good pass blockers. If we don't go DT in the first, then we should try and grab Peter Konz or Cordy Glenn.

oubronco
04-18-2012, 05:51 PM
CB/LB, DT/RB, DT, DT, OL

Lestat
04-18-2012, 05:52 PM
the OL needs upgrading but DT has to be priority.

Drunken.Broncoholic
04-18-2012, 05:56 PM
I'm worried about Kuper recuperating.

Br0nc0Buster
04-18-2012, 06:08 PM
DT, DT, DT .... yes agreed but does anyone feel the Walton/Beadles element of our O-Line on pass protection is weak sauce?

Last year, the QB plus unusual offense added a bunch to our rushing totals so I'm not sure we can assume that this year "we have the best rushing offense in the NFL". Combine that with the suspect pass protection from last year, I think we need to spend one of our first 3 picks as an upgrade of at least one of these two players.

From the confirmed visits thread, it appears OG is being looked at.

So, 1st 4 picks in no particular order:

OG/C, DT, RB and LB (who can defend TEs on passing downs)?

Tom Brady was sacked 21 times in 2007
Matt Cassel behind the same line was sacked 47 times in 2008

Peyton Manning is one of the hardest qbs to sack in the history of the NFL

Our interior could be upgraded, but without a doubt our line now is better than what the Colts have been trotting out in recent years

Manning will make everyone, especially our oline look better

Clady went 20 straight games without giving up a sack when he had a qb who actually would get rid of the ball

He will bounce back this year, maybe he will never be the player he was his rookie year
but he will have a good year

BroncoMan4ever
04-18-2012, 06:22 PM
DT, DT, DT .... yes agreed but does anyone feel the Walton/Beadles element of our O-Line on pass protection is weak sauce?

Last year, the QB plus unusual offense added a bunch to our rushing totals so I'm not sure we can assume that this year "we have the best rushing offense in the NFL". Combine that with the suspect pass protection from last year, I think we need to spend one of our first 3 picks as an upgrade of at least one of these two players.

From the confirmed visits thread, it appears OG is being looked at.

So, 1st 4 picks in no particular order:

OG/C, DT, RB and LB (who can defend TEs on passing downs)?

is C or LG as big of a need as we all seem to believe? if it were, i can't fathom that the front office would have had little or no interest in Saturday even if it was only for a year or 2 and that so far not a single interior OL was brought in.

i am not too worried about our rushing totals, in fact I would expect the yards per carry to actually increase, simply because of teams needing to play the Nickel and Dime formations much more often to compensate for a legit passing attack which would give our ball carriers easier rushing lanes. so while our total yardage may drop because we don't have a QB rushing for 70 yards a game in addition to our RBs, but our rushing attack should stay pretty potent.

pass protection is hard to judge from last year. none of the line looked great doing it because it is a b**** to protect a QB who is never where you'd expect, and you have no idea whether or not he has thrown the ball, tucked it and run or is stretching a play; which is also a huge reason why Clady had so many holding penalties. in a situation where the QB will be getting the ball out of his hands in about 3-5 seconds and is purely a pocket passer, the work for the OL will become much easier. i think we need depth, and competition for starting spots, but not replacements necessarily.

i say 1st 4 picks need to be DT, CB, RB, LB and then depth and a return man.

BroncoMan4ever
04-18-2012, 06:27 PM
I'm worried about Kuper recuperating.

the only thing with Kuper I am worried about is him coming back before the injury is completely healed. he seems to have the attitude of one of those throwback OL players from decades past who would play in any condition. he is the best OL on the team and we need him at 100%. he says he should be 100% by TC, so i would love to see the team work him onto the playing field over a couple of weeks instead of just throwing him in. let him get his feet back under him so that once the regular season comes, he is ready to resume kicking some ass.

Chris
04-18-2012, 06:28 PM
I'm worried about Kuper recuperating.

Yu cant speel rekuperate without kuper.

TonyR
04-18-2012, 06:36 PM
Peyton Manning is one of the hardest qbs to sack in the history of the NFL

Our interior could be upgraded, but without a doubt our line now is better than what the Colts have been trotting out in recent years

Manning will make everyone, especially our oline look better

Clady went 20 straight games without giving up a sack when he had a qb who actually would get rid of the ball

Yup, good post. Our O-line was pretty darn good with Cutler and Manning is superior to Cutler. I think they'll be fine, although an interior upgrade certainly wouldn't hurt.

yerner
04-18-2012, 06:44 PM
Clady led the league in holding calls last year. He's still a very good OT, and we need to lock him up along with Kuper and Frankling.

Beadles and Walton are below-average, and not very good pass blockers. If we don't go DT in the first, then we should try and grab Peter Konz or Cordy Glenn.

I wouldn't mind either of those guys. Glenn would be pretty awesome next to Franklin or Clady.

Lestat
04-18-2012, 07:08 PM
i think Konz could slip, i wouldn't take him with #25 but if we trade down i would if OL was the target.

broncosteven
04-18-2012, 07:34 PM
I sure hope Harris is healthy, if he is we have solid depth and with the help of rainbows and unicorns he could win back the starting RT job moving Franklin to guard and upgrading the line even more. I don't think that will likely happen but it is fun to dream now and then.

Beadles and Walton are the weak links and Kuper is going to have to prove he is 100% on the field but I think Manning's release will help them out, as long as Manning is 100%.

Agamemnon
04-18-2012, 07:35 PM
Yes I am worried about it. Our o-line sucks.

Agamemnon
04-18-2012, 07:38 PM
is C or LG as big of a need as we all seem to believe? if it were, i can't fathom that the front office would have had little or no interest in Saturday even if it was only for a year or 2 and that so far not a single interior OL was brought in.


They also thought Orton gave us the "best chance to win" last season, and they let Bunkley walk while bringing in no help at DT to replace him, at least not yet.

So...yeah...

TonyR
04-18-2012, 07:49 PM
Yes I am worried about it. Our o-line sucks.

LOL What a drama queen. I guarantee you Manning will make the O-line look better. He makes quicker and better reads and gets rid of the football. Do you really think he'd sign with a team if he was concerned that the O-line wasn't good enough? And maybe he knows a little bit more about O-lines than you?

Old Dude
04-18-2012, 08:06 PM
I'm still concerned about it. Especially the interior.

I agree with the folks who think that Clady will perform better for a pocket passer - especially one with a fast release and who can read blitzes like Manning. I do think that Manning will make the whole O-Line look better in terms of the passing game.

I am not so sure about our running game. The O-Line looked incapable of opening any kind of hole when Orton was behind center. Some of that was undoubtedly due to the fact that the secondary was cheating up against the dink and dunk short range passing game. - - But not all of it. There were plenty of plays where Beadles and Walton just got dominated by opposing linemen.

They seemed to get better as time went on, but I wonder how much of that was due to Tebow and the scheme.

The whole offense is going to be so radically different in design (and with Manning behind center) that I think it's very hard to project much of anything from last year, one way or the other.

My hope is (a) that they all come back healthy and (b) that they all get on the same page as fast as possible. I've got a feeling that Manning will see to (b).

BroncoMan4ever
04-18-2012, 08:36 PM
They also thought Orton gave us the "best chance to win" last season, and they let Bunkley walk while bringing in no help at DT to replace him, at least not yet.

So...yeah...

give me a break with this "they thought Orton was the best option last year bull****."

i hear it so much whenever anything is brought up about what the front office may be thinking. and it is bull****.

tell me any organization that would have thought Tebow was the best option going into last season. he looked like **** in camp, mediocre in preseason, and was outplayed by both Quinn and Orton. the NFL is a show me what you've got job and Orton showed the team more ability before the season began. now whether that amounted to success on the field is not the point, because any other organization in the league would have done the same thing with the QB position given the options Denver had last year because they would play the guy who looked best.

Bunkley was a good player for us, but was he really worth 9 million guaranteed? we are so starved for any kind of DT that we as fans are willing to back up brinks trucks on average players.

and if you will recall how we got Bunkley in the 1st place, it was a post draft day trade. players on rosters now are going to become available in the coming months. we have 2 of the best defensive minds in the league on staff, i think they have a plan for the defense.

Vegas_Bronco
04-18-2012, 08:39 PM
Peyton holds the ball just a bit longer in the red zone than most qbs...giving his wrs just eniough time to work through the coverage contact. Ends up really confusing defenders that are use to him firing at will on tempo through most of the game...dude is a master of timing the pass right allowing the wr to work thru the coverage. Just give him a blocking back that can fill a blitz and hell throw 4 tds on the defense in one half. Our offensive line is good enough...could use some depth. Most holding calls will recede to half the amount bc Clady doesn't have to worry about a scrambling mess in the backfield. Having tebow back there was a technique nightmare for any tackle.

BroncoBen
04-18-2012, 08:44 PM
Actually it was Clady that lead the team in holding calls in fact alomsot a league leader IIRC..

Am I concerned about the rest of the OL sure.. Kuper coming off IR with ankle surgery AGAIN, franklin a much better run blocker than pass protect..

anyone I missed?

Are you freaking kidding me, TT was running around the backfield like a madman most of the time, granted he was trying to make something happen. So of course the oline looked worse then it was.
If John Madden thinks the Broncos oline were in his top 5 for olines, that is good enough for me.

lonestar
04-18-2012, 09:12 PM
Tom Brady was sacked 21 times in 2007
Matt Cassel behind the same line was sacked 47 times in 2008

Peyton Manning is one of the hardest qbs to sack in the history of the NFL

Our interior could be upgraded, but without a doubt our line now is better than what the Colts have been trotting out in recent years

Manning will make everyone, especially our oline look better

Clady went 20 straight games without giving up a sack when he had a qb who actually would get rid of the ball

He will bounce back this year, maybe he will never be the player he was his rookie year
but he will have a good year

Wish y'all would get your head out of your collective asses and realize that sacks are one thing and pressures and getting you head handed to you in a legal hit are two entirely different animals.

While it is a measurement it only counts the ones that come before they get the ball off. I'd guess that there are twice as many of the later than there are sacks..

And everyone of them add up in mannings career. From hs thru last year.

I know that John did not get sacked much but he commented as did Jake after they retired that getting up Monday after a game and not hurting all over was nice.

So singing the praises of the lack of mannings sack is folly. If you have followed his career his OL was very veteran unlike ours being very young. They will be better in front of him, but not as good as his last one. And that one was just good enough to cause him FOUR neck surgeries.

lonestar
04-18-2012, 09:19 PM
I sure hope Harris is healthy, if he is we have solid depth and with the help of rainbows and unicorns he could win back the starting RT job moving Franklin to guard and upgrading the line even more. I don't think that will likely happen but it is fun to dream now and then.

Beadles and Walton are the weak links and Kuper is going to have to prove he is 100% on the field but I think Manning's release will help them out, as long as Manning is 100%.

Harris the guy that started just a tad more than 50% of the games he was eligible to do..

Anything more than a few play backup is counting on his sorry ass to much.

Once again. Timing and KNOWING what the guy next to you is doing plays more than anything on the OL. Having a newbie next to you causes hesitation which will get your QB killed.

Most of the great OLs of all time played as a unit for years not games. Everyone knows what is going to happen I'm ANY situation. And it is an automatic response. Not wondering what the newbie is going to do.

BroncoBeavis
04-18-2012, 09:22 PM
Are you freaking kidding me, TT was running around the backfield like a madman most of the time, granted he was trying to make something happen. So of course the oline looked worse then it was.
If John Madden thinks the Broncos oline were in his top 5 for olines, that is good enough for me.

Hilarious!

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lonestar
04-18-2012, 09:25 PM
Let me add if you replace one guy on an established OL most likely little will happen. Changing pieces around on ours would be chaos.

Ome guy changing might work but moving Franklin to a new spot then putting a new guy at ORT with kuper coming off IR and probably not at 80% yet is beyond dumb IMO. Then Clady is affected as well as JD. Means none of them have a clue what the guy next to them is oing to do..

Add to that Manning having his own cadence and blocking scheme.

Someone is going to get killed. IMO.

BroncoMan4ever
04-18-2012, 09:27 PM
Hilarious!

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so one of the best DL in football was able to have success against our run oriented OL.

lonestar
04-18-2012, 09:28 PM
And at is not something your going to fix in TC. It can take years to develop that trust.

DENVERDUI55
04-18-2012, 09:28 PM
Hilarious!

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Manning makes that completion to Decker for an easy 10+ yards.

BroncoBeavis
04-18-2012, 09:43 PM
Manning makes that completion to Decker for an easy 10+ yards.

Yeah sure, buddy.

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BroncoBeavis
04-18-2012, 09:48 PM
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Dedhed
04-18-2012, 09:53 PM
so one of the best DL in football was able to have success against our run oriented OL.

Can you spot the operative phrase in this sentence?

DENVERDUI55
04-18-2012, 10:00 PM
Yeah sure, buddy.

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This is irrelevant we won't be running this gimmick offense.

DENVERDUI55
04-18-2012, 10:03 PM
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Another irrelevant play. Tell me how this play has anything to do with a Manning led offense? I guarantee that Denver runs this play exactly zero times with Manning.

BroncoBeavis
04-18-2012, 10:07 PM
Another irrelevant play. Tell me how this play has anything to do with a Manning led offense? I guarantee that Denver runs this play exactly zero times with Manning.

Yes because Ole blocking and blown assignments are nothing to worry about when MANNING (zoolander face) is on the field.

wolf754life
04-19-2012, 12:30 AM
TEBLOW held ball very very long times................


oh and me love you long times baby, no boom boom soul brotha

TOO BUUUKOO!

fontaine
04-19-2012, 02:41 AM
Walton/Beadles are a big concern especially against good one gapping DT. Beadles doesn't move well laterally and doesn't play physical enough while Walton is good for one/two big mistakes per game.

I don't know what kind of depth we have back there but I would work Harris a Guard position all ofseason because when healthy he's a good option to have.

Agamemnon
04-19-2012, 02:57 AM
Man people are deluded when it comes to our o-line. It's kind of bizarre actually.

They are one of the worst lines in the league people.

Agamemnon
04-19-2012, 02:59 AM
LOL What a drama queen. I guarantee you Manning will make the O-line look better. He makes quicker and better reads and gets rid of the football. Do you really think he'd sign with a team if he was concerned that the O-line wasn't good enough? And maybe he knows a little bit more about O-lines than you?

Ah yes, Manning fixes everything. ::)

Agamemnon
04-19-2012, 03:00 AM
give me a break with this "they thought Orton was the best option last year bull****."

i hear it so much whenever anything is brought up about what the front office may be thinking. and it is bull****.

tell me any organization that would have thought Tebow was the best option going into last season. he looked like **** in camp, mediocre in preseason, and was outplayed by both Quinn and Orton. the NFL is a show me what you've got job and Orton showed the team more ability before the season began. now whether that amounted to success on the field is not the point, because any other organization in the league would have done the same thing with the QB position given the options Denver had last year because they would play the guy who looked best.

Bunkley was a good player for us, but was he really worth 9 million guaranteed? we are so starved for any kind of DT that we as fans are willing to back up brinks trucks on average players.

and if you will recall how we got Bunkley in the 1st place, it was a post draft day trade. players on rosters now are going to become available in the coming months. we have 2 of the best defensive minds in the league on staff, i think they have a plan for the defense.

Isn't it hard to breathe with your head buried so deep in the sand?

BroncoMan4ever
04-19-2012, 03:14 AM
Isn't it hard to breathe with your head buried so deep in the sand?

is it hard to see when your head is so far up Tebow's ass?

Agamemnon
04-19-2012, 03:19 AM
is it hard to see when your head is so far up Tebow's ass?

Let it go. He's gone now.

Meanwhile our o-line is still hot garbage, especially the interior. And our DT situation is just plain abysmal. But Manning fixes everything right?

cutthemdown
04-19-2012, 05:54 AM
I'd sort of like to see the broncos get a guard or a center that could realistically beat out Walton or Beadles. Or even a stud RT that lets Franklin play guard. But maybe he is better at RT and Broncos plan on keeping him there. He just seems to look more like a road grading guard.

cutthemdown
04-19-2012, 05:55 AM
Let it go. He's gone now.

Meanwhile our o-line is still hot garbage, especially the interior. And our DT situation is just plain abysmal. But Manning fixes everything right?

No I'd say we are still this draft, another FA period, then another draft away from realistically having a team with hardly any holes. And that would depend on Bailey, Manning holding up.

EmpireOrange
04-19-2012, 06:05 AM
Tom Brady was sacked 21 times in 2007
Matt Cassel behind the same line was sacked 47 times in 2008

Peyton Manning is one of the hardest qbs to sack in the history of the NFL

Our interior could be upgraded, but without a doubt our line now is better than what the Colts have been trotting out in recent years

Manning will make everyone, especially our oline look better

Clady went 20 straight games without giving up a sack when he had a qb who actually would get rid of the ball

He will bounce back this year, maybe he will never be the player he was his rookie year
but he will have a good year

One of the more intelligent post I've read on this board in a long time.

EmpireOrange
04-19-2012, 06:11 AM
Hilarious!

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I noticed you didn't post the one of the 38 plays entailing Tebow held the ball waiting for his No. 1 to get open. Instead, you pick a play against one of the best DL's in the game going against a QB they know can't beat over the top to smear a very good OL unit. Intellectually dishonest, sir. You make me sick!

DENVERDUI55
04-19-2012, 06:41 AM
Yes because Ole blocking and blown assignments are nothing to worry about when MANNING (zoolander face) is on the field.

Well he will help presnap reads, get ball out quick and get out of bad plays with audibles. Your being ignorant if you don't think manning makes the lines job a lot easier.

TonyR
04-19-2012, 06:57 AM
Ah yes, Manning fixes everything.

Who said he fixed "everything"? But you clearly seem to lack an understanding of the major difference a QB like Manning will make with respect to the OL compared to an Orton or a Tebow. And our OL is no worse than the line Manning played behind in Indy and he seemed to do okay there...

Rabb
04-19-2012, 07:26 AM
Peyton holds the ball just a bit longer in the red zone than most qbs...giving his wrs just eniough time to work through the coverage contact. Ends up really confusing defenders that are use to him firing at will on tempo through most of the game...dude is a master of timing the pass right allowing the wr to work thru the coverage. Just give him a blocking back that can fill a blitz and hell throw 4 tds on the defense in one half. Our offensive line is good enough...could use some depth. Most holding calls will recede to half the amount bc Clady doesn't have to worry about a scrambling mess in the backfield. Having tebow back there was a technique nightmare for any tackle.

this

BroncoBen
04-19-2012, 08:51 AM
January 05, 2012 John Madden's top 5 offensive lines

Throughout the regular season, Coach Madden has been closely tracking the top offensive lines in the NFL, and has narrowed the list to five <b>(5)</b> finalists: the New Orleans Saints (24 sacks allowed second fewest in the NFL, 5,347 pass yards best in the NFL). The New England Patriots (averaged 317.8 passing yards per game second best in the NFL). The Houston Texans (averaged 153 rushing yards per game second best in the NFL). <b>The Denver Broncos (2,632 rushing yards best in the NFL)</b>. And the Green Bay Packers (averaged 35 points per game best in the NFL).

bendog
04-19-2012, 08:51 AM
I'm still concerned about it. Especially the interior.They seemed to get better as time went on, but I wonder how much of that was due to Tebow and the scheme.

The whole offense is going to be so radically different in design (and with Manning behind center) that I think it's very hard to project much of anything from last year, one way or the other.

My hope is (a) that they all come back healthy and (b) that they all get on the same page as fast as possible. I've got a feeling that Manning will see to (b).

That's it. Neither qb last year could make a team only play 7 defenders up. Orton was literally the pocket sloth, and Tebow while a great kid has no pocket sense. There's no way to know how good, or bad, they are. But, I don't see EFX, or Manning, going with them unless they think it'll work out. I've always like Kuper, and loved Franklin coming out of college, and Clady is in year 3 of a serious injury, and he probably came back too soon. I'm probably prejudiced against Walton and Beadles because of who drafted them. But the interior of the line has been a problem since both Nails and Hamilton never really made it back from injury and we traded Myers.

Kaylore
04-19-2012, 10:19 AM
I think its an area that will be helped by Manning. Manning is one of the hardest QB's to sack because he gets rid of the ball so quickly and makes good line calls.

Drek
04-19-2012, 10:35 AM
I think its an area that will be helped by Manning. Manning is one of the hardest QB's to sack because he gets rid of the ball so quickly and makes good line calls.

Sure, but we're still inconsistent (Beadles, Walton, and Franklin), needing to get 100% for next season after serious injuries (Clady, Kuper) and lacking any depth other than a guy who can't stay healthy (Harris).

We need an interior line backup who isn't a scrub and we need all these guys to actually take the next step forward/return to previous career form. Otherwise we're asking Manning to make them look better, not having them help Manning look better.

BroncoBeavis
04-19-2012, 11:41 AM
Well he will help presnap reads, get ball out quick and get out of bad plays with audibles. Your being ignorant if you don't think manning makes the lines job a lot easier.

Over the long term probably. In the short term though, the adjustment might make it even harder. Having a guy who lives and breathes delivering presnap reads working with 100% guys he's never worked with before is a big cause for concern, even with a solid offensive line.

Anyone who doesn't think this O-Line is a huge concern going into next season is prone to magical thinking.

razorwire77
04-19-2012, 11:48 AM
Sure, but we're still inconsistent (Beadles, Walton, and Franklin), needing to get 100% for next season after serious injuries (Clady, Kuper) and lacking any depth other than a guy who can't stay healthy (Harris).

We need an interior line backup who isn't a scrub and we need all these guys to actually take the next step forward/return to previous career form. Otherwise we're asking Manning to make them look better, not having them help Manning look better.

Yep, and for this reason I wouldn't be surprised at all if a RT or G/C is the call in the first or second rounds. This is especially true given the nature of Kupe's injury.

If any of the upper tier offensive lineman (DeCastro, Glen, Adams, or Konz) are sitting there at 25, you could either bolster interior line depth and strength, or kick Franklin inside and make Beadles a decent rotational backup at 3 spots.

Drek
04-19-2012, 12:29 PM
Yep, and for this reason I wouldn't be surprised at all if a RT or G/C is the call in the first or second rounds. This is especially true given the nature of Kupe's injury.

If any of the upper tier offensive lineman (DeCastro, Glen, Adams, or Konz) are sitting there at 25, you could either bolster interior line depth and strength, or kick Franklin inside and make Beadles a decent rotational backup at 3 spots.

They aren't moving Franklin in. People need to give that up. Franklin played predominantly guard in college, Beadles played predominantly tackle. Beadles spent 2010 shifting between both tackle and guard. When they brought in Franklin they spent ZERO time having Beadles play tackle or Franklin play guard.

People need to accept that the coaching staff views Franklin as a RT and as a result he's going to sink or swim as an RT. I'm betting swim because he's powerful enough to dominate people when he gets his hands on them and long enough to get his hands on almost everyone before they can get away. Magazu and Fox traded back up several years ago to select Jeff Otah at the end of round one, a 6'6", 322 pound OT. Franklin is like Otah in A LOT of ways and actually tested out as the more quick/athletic of the two from their combine numbers (better 10, 20, 40 yard dash, better vertical, better broad jump, only one less bench rep).

I think they view it as having drafted another Otah that Magazu can coach up into one hell of a run crusher who also won't be a liability in the passing game once he's developed.

DBroncos4life
04-19-2012, 12:54 PM
I'm willing to bet we give up no more then 25 sacks this year as the line sits now.

razorwire77
04-19-2012, 12:58 PM
They aren't moving Franklin in. People need to give that up. Franklin played predominantly guard in college, Beadles played predominantly tackle. Beadles spent 2010 shifting between both tackle and guard. When they brought in Franklin they spent ZERO time having Beadles play tackle or Franklin play guard.

People need to accept that the coaching staff views Franklin as a RT and as a result he's going to sink or swim as an RT. I'm betting swim because he's powerful enough to dominate people when he gets his hands on them and long enough to get his hands on almost everyone before they can get away. Magazu and Fox traded back up several years ago to select Jeff Otah at the end of round one, a 6'6", 322 pound OT. Franklin is like Otah in A LOT of ways and actually tested out as the more quick/athletic of the two from their combine numbers (better 10, 20, 40 yard dash, better vertical, better broad jump, only one less bench rep).

I think they view it as having drafted another Otah that Magazu can coach up into one hell of a run crusher who also won't be a liability in the passing game once he's developed.
We'll have to agree to disagree. If Ryan Harris can get and stay healthy BIG IF, I think we'll see Franklin getting moved inside.

baja
04-19-2012, 01:10 PM
DO YOU REALLY THINK THE OVER ANALYZING MANNING WOULD CHOSE A TEAM WITH, AS CLAIMED, ONE OF THE WORSE O LINES IN THE LEAGUE? I THINK NOT!

Agamemnon
04-19-2012, 03:34 PM
DO YOU REALLY THINK THE OVER ANALYZING MANNING WOULD CHOSE A TEAM WITH, AS CLAIMED, ONE OF THE WORSE O LINES IN THE LEAGUE? I THINK NOT!

I wouldn't have thought so. But he did.

baja
04-19-2012, 04:05 PM
I wouldn't have thought so. But he did.

Manning takes 20 minutes to decide which flavor ice cream he orders. He practically had his pick of teams to go to. He has had 4 neck surgeries and you want me to believe he chose a team with one of the worse O lines in the league? I think I know who is in error here. You!

RaiderH8r
04-19-2012, 04:07 PM
DO YOU REALLY THINK THE OVER ANALYZING MANNING WOULD CHOSE A TEAM WITH, AS CLAIMED, ONE OF THE WORSE O LINES IN THE LEAGUE? I THINK NOT!

Franklin the Whiffmeister single handily made Nonkovich a household name. Walton is a slapstick and Beadles plays on skates....wearing a tutu. Yeah, we got pansies. But that's fine. Itis Championship or bust so they will have to do.

DBroncos4life
04-19-2012, 04:07 PM
Franklin the Whiffmeister single handily made Nonkovich a household name. Walton is a slapstick and Beadles plays on skates....wearing a tutu. Yeah, we got pansies. But that's fine. Itis Championship or bust so they will have to do.

Who???

TonyR
04-19-2012, 04:18 PM
Who???

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=ne%20patriots%20ninkovich&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CGcQFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fespn.go.com%2Fnfl%2Fplayer%2F_%2F id%2F9721%2Frob-ninkovich&ei=II-QT8uxMMmf6AGUtIWyBA&usg=AFQjCNEcXE4RgW2pUEf42U_0oehb3fpeFA

RaiderH8r
04-19-2012, 04:18 PM
Who???

Ninkovich. Why the **** my iPad would auto correct that to nonkovich is beyond me.

baja
04-19-2012, 04:41 PM
Ninkovich. Why the **** my iPad would auto correct that to nonkovich is beyond me.

That auto correct is making for many an embarrassing moment.

fontaine
04-20-2012, 02:49 AM
People need to accept that the coaching staff views Franklin as a RT and as a result he's going to sink or swim as an RT. I'm betting swim because he's powerful enough to dominate people when he gets his hands on them and long enough to get his hands on almost everyone before they can get away. Magazu and Fox traded back up several years ago to select Jeff Otah at the end of round one, a 6'6", 322 pound OT. Franklin is like Otah in A LOT of ways and actually tested out as the more quick/athletic of the two from their combine numbers (better 10, 20, 40 yard dash, better vertical, better broad jump, only one less bench rep).

I think they view it as having drafted another Otah that Magazu can coach up into one hell of a run crusher who also won't be a liability in the passing game once he's developed.

I agree completely. Franklin has shown excellent feet and movement with proper knee bend coming out of his stance. Coupled with his size this and run blocking ability this makes him a RT in my book.

Yes he struggled initially last year but it was also against some of the leagues best speed rushers and everyone except top flite tackles struggle handling them as well.

Drek
04-20-2012, 05:04 AM
We'll have to agree to disagree. If Ryan Harris can get and stay healthy BIG IF, I think we'll see Franklin getting moved inside.

So they can move him back out to tackle when Harris is hurt again, further hindering Franklin's development?

Ryan Harris is here to be the swing tackle. His best chance at a starting role is for Franklin to have serious injury problems (like Otah has in Carolina) or for Clady to walk when his contract is up. The only way anyone is putting faith in Harris' ability to stay healthy is if there is no other choice.

The dream scenario for Harris at this point would be just staying healthy as a part timer.

razorwire77
04-20-2012, 10:00 AM
So they can move him back out to tackle when Harris is hurt again, further hindering Franklin's development?

Ryan Harris is here to be the swing tackle. His best chance at a starting role is for Franklin to have serious injury problems (like Otah has in Carolina) or for Clady to walk when his contract is up. The only way anyone is putting faith in Harris' ability to stay healthy is if there is no other choice.

The dream scenario for Harris at this point would be just staying healthy as a part timer.

If the staff deems it necessary, Franklin's development will take a backseat to keeping Manning upright in pass protection and by putting the best lineman on the field to run a successful no-huddle offense. I think we will see some transitions in the trenches with Kupe's injuries and Beadles ability to pull and block nothing, If Denver does not draft an interior lineman high in the draft I can envision a scenario where you have

LT Clady
LG Kuper (if he's ready week one), LG draft pick or Beadles
C Walton or draft pick (I think they give Walton another year.)
RG Franklin, if Harris can remain healthy. If not, Franklin stays at RT.
RT Harris (if he can stay healthy, which is doubtful.

Regardless of how it plays out, I think it's pretty likely Denver drafts a interior lineman in the first 3 rounds.

pricejj
04-20-2012, 10:10 AM
LT Clady
LG Kuper (if he's ready week one), LG draft pick or Beadles
C Walton or draft pick (I think they give Walton another year.)
RG Franklin, if Harris can remain healthy. If not, Franklin stays at RT.
RT Harris (if he can stay healthy, which is doubtful.


You have a great point in shifting Kuper to LG. The strongside RG should be a roadgrader. Kuper is only 300 lbs.

Adding Konz at Center would make the project complete.

Dedhed
04-20-2012, 10:26 AM
If the staff deems it necessary, Franklin's development will take a backseat to keeping Manning upright in pass protection and by putting the best lineman on the field to run a successful no-huddle offense. I think we will see some transitions in the trenches with Kupe's injuries and Beadles ability to pull and block nothing, If Denver does not draft an interior lineman high in the draft I can envision a scenario where you have

LT Clady
LG Kuper (if he's ready week one), LG draft pick or Beadles
C Walton or draft pick (I think they give Walton another year.)
RG Franklin, if Harris can remain healthy. If not, Franklin stays at RT.
RT Harris (if he can stay healthy, which is doubtful.

Regardless of how it plays out, I think it's pretty likely Denver drafts a interior lineman in the first 3 rounds.
Harris is nothing but a stop gap starter at best. It doesn't make any sense to impair Franklin's development at RT in order to get him on the field.

peacepipe
04-20-2012, 10:33 AM
You have a great point in shifting Kuper to LG. The strongside RG should be a roadgrader. Kuper is only 300 lbs.

Adding Konz at Center would make the project complete.

As long as he is not a day 1 starter. I doubt they're going to put a rookie at center this yr.

Dedhed
04-20-2012, 10:38 AM
As long as he is not a day 1 starter. I doubt they're going to put a rookie at center this yr.

We're not, which is why it makes no sense to pick him.

Heyneck
04-20-2012, 10:49 AM
All I know is that Beadles and Walton are crap, and that Franklin struggles in pass protection. I think Clady will benefit with the new offense and that if Kupe doesn't have a setback he should be solid as always. I don't know who I like worst between Beadles and Walton... but if we want to keep our investment healthy... one of them has to be replaced this year.

And don't get me started with the Harris back at LT crap. The dude can't stay healthy and probably never will. Chronic back problems for an OL is not good at all.

razorwire77
04-20-2012, 10:58 AM
Harris is nothing but a stop gap starter at best. It doesn't make any sense to impair Franklin's development at RT in order to get him on the field.
Like it or not, we are in "win now" mode." Again, I preface this by saying I think that Franklin will be the starter at RT and Harris will most likely not be healthy enough to be anything but depth.

But, if throughout the course of training camps/OTAs Harris is healthy and picks up the Fast-paced Manning offense, (particularly pass-blocking) than I think it is a real possibility that Franklin gets moved inside. Again, not so much as Franklin sucking at RT as much as Kuper not being healthy and Beadles sucking.

Bronco Rob
04-20-2012, 10:58 AM
How many sacks did the Colts give up in 2010?



How many sacks did the Colts give up in 2011?




???

Drek
04-20-2012, 11:05 AM
If the staff deems it necessary, Franklin's development will take a backseat to keeping Manning upright in pass protection and by putting the best lineman on the field to run a successful no-huddle offense. I think we will see some transitions in the trenches with Kupe's injuries and Beadles ability to pull and block nothing, If Denver does not draft an interior lineman high in the draft I can envision a scenario where you have

LT Clady
LG Kuper (if he's ready week one), LG draft pick or Beadles
C Walton or draft pick (I think they give Walton another year.)
RG Franklin, if Harris can remain healthy. If not, Franklin stays at RT.
RT Harris (if he can stay healthy, which is doubtful.

Regardless of how it plays out, I think it's pretty likely Denver drafts a interior lineman in the first 3 rounds.

If the staff deems it necessary? You mean the same staff who put collegiate career OT Zane Beadles at guard and never even considered swapping him and Franklin all last season?

Its pretty damn clear what the staff thinks man. Stop making up straw men to fulfill a fantasy.

Also, its entirely possible that after his first full camp of development with Magazu that Franklin is a better all around player than Harris at RT. So why stunt that growth when you admit that Harris' health is a coin toss?

The dumbest thing this club could do if they're in "win now" mode is hitching the OL's production to Harris' health and that is exactly what you are doing when you reduce the amount of time Franklin spends there in camp and in pre-season.

Harris has the potential to be a very valuable swing tackle. Lets see him succeed in that role for a season or two before we start looking for ways to shoe horn him back into the starting lineup.

TonyR
04-20-2012, 11:06 AM
How many sacks did the Colts give up in 2010?


How many sacks did the Colts give up in 2011?


They went from 16 in 2010 to 35 in 2011. Manning effect.

As myself and many others have been saying all along, Manning will make the O-line look a lot better.

razorwire77
04-20-2012, 11:21 AM
If the staff deems it necessary? You mean the same staff who put collegiate career OT Zane Beadles at guard and never even considered swapping him and Franklin all last season?

Its pretty damn clear what the staff thinks man. Stop making up straw men to fulfill a fantasy.

Also, its entirely possible that after his first full camp of development with Magazu that Franklin is a better all around player than Harris at RT. So why stunt that growth when you admit that Harris' health is a coin toss?

The dumbest thing this club could do if they're in "win now" mode is hitching the OL's production to Harris' health and that is exactly what you are doing when you reduce the amount of time Franklin spends there in camp and in pre-season.

Harris has the potential to be a very valuable swing tackle. Lets see him succeed in that role for a season or two before we start looking for ways to shoe horn him back into the starting lineup.
Nobody is shoe-horning anybody anywhere. Just speculating what the team might do to address to interior line issues on this team.

C'mon man, there was a pretty significant difference between Harris' feet and ability to pass block as an NFL RT (when healthy) and Beadles being a RT in college. It's an apples and oranges situation. We all know Franklin is a better NFL RT than Beadles would be. But, we also know that Harris when healthy is a better NFL RT than Beadles would be.

Again, let me repeat what I've already said in this thread. I'm not saying "Harris is a better RT than Franklin so let's pencil him in at starter." I said that I think it is likely that Franklin remains at RT and that Harris plays a rotational/swing role like what you've described.

But, what I am saying is that our interior line right now consists of Kuper coming off of the most gruesome injury I've seen in 3 or 4 years, Walton who is mediocre (at best) and Beadles who sucks. If the team chooses to address other holes high in the draft (DT, RB, CB, slot WR etc.) it is entirely possible that if Harris is healthy and returns to a previous form (again unlikely, but possible) that the team moves a guy like Franklin who has the size and strength to be a road-grader inside to improve interior line quality and moves Harris to RT.

Bronco Rob
04-21-2012, 06:02 AM
They went from 16 in 2010 to 35 in 2011. Manning effect.

As myself and many others have been saying all along, Manning will make the O-line look a lot better.



Thank you



:thumbs:

Agamemnon
04-21-2012, 05:16 PM
Manning takes 20 minutes to decide which flavor ice cream he orders. He practically had his pick of teams to go to. He has had 4 neck surgeries and you want me to believe he chose a team with one of the worse O lines in the league? I think I know who is in error here. You!

I didn't say it was the worst, I said it was one of the worst. There's no doubt in my mind that it's in the bottom ten. Three mediocre guys mixed with a couple absolutely terrible guys, I really don't get how anyone could conclude otherwise.

baja
04-21-2012, 06:05 PM
I didn't say it was the worst, I said it was one of the worst. There's no doubt in my mind that it's in the bottom ten. Three mediocre guys mixed with a couple absolutely terrible guys, I really don't get how anyone could conclude otherwise.

Clady made the pro bowl

Kuper is very solid

Walton is much improved over his rookie season

Franklin had flashes for a rookie protecting a scrambling qb that held the ball forever

Harris is very good when healthy

Lestat
04-21-2012, 07:04 PM
i really don't see Franklin getting beat out for RT. Harris is really good when healthy but his back issues have not allowed him to stay on the field. in a perfect world Harris is back and better than ever, forces Franklin inside to RG and that makes the entire OL better.

but the staff had Franklin rated very highly last season(wasn't he their #3 ranked OT?) and he showed some flashes of being a pretty good RT last season. if he can continue to improve then it's possible Harris doesn't beat him out and we take a G in the draft to help the OL.

Agamemnon
04-21-2012, 08:06 PM
Clady made the pro bowl

Kuper is very solid

Walton is much improved over his rookie season

Franklin had flashes for a rookie protecting a scrambling qb that held the ball forever

Harris is very good when healthy

Clady hasn't looked like a pro bowler in quite some time.

Kuper is solid, you're right, but I still think he's only slightly above average by league standards. He's also coming off a really nasty injury.

Walton is much improved? Hilarious!

Franklin was terrible against speed rushers all season long. I didn't see anything that made feel like he'll ever be anything more than adequate, but maybe he'll prove me wrong. He is a solid run blocker at least.

Harris is made out of glass.

broncosteven
04-21-2012, 08:55 PM
Nobody is shoe-horning anybody anywhere. Just speculating what the team might do to address to interior line issues on this team.

C'mon man, there was a pretty significant difference between Harris' feet and ability to pass block as an NFL RT (when healthy) and Beadles being a RT in college. It's an apples and oranges situation. We all know Franklin is a better NFL RT than Beadles would be. But, we also know that Harris when healthy is a better NFL RT than Beadles would be.

Again, let me repeat what I've already said in this thread. I'm not saying "Harris is a better RT than Franklin so let's pencil him in at starter." I said that I think it is likely that Franklin remains at RT and that Harris plays a rotational/swing role like what you've described.

But, what I am saying is that our interior line right now consists of Kuper coming off of the most gruesome injury I've seen in 3 or 4 years, Walton who is mediocre (at best) and Beadles who sucks. If the team chooses to address other holes high in the draft (DT, RB, CB, slot WR etc.) it is entirely possible that if Harris is healthy and returns to a previous form (again unlikely, but possible) that the team moves a guy like Franklin who has the size and strength to be a road-grader inside to improve interior line quality and moves Harris to RT.

I would love to see this pan out but not sure it will happen, the best thing is we have nothing to lose if it fails.

I sure hope we get a C and or G to challenge walton and beadles this year.