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Heyneck
04-18-2012, 12:22 PM
Very interesting article. Makes you think about how the huge stigma about College players smoking pot being overblown.

Our very own/former Reuben Droughns ways in on the subject.

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0417/mag_jc_leaffb_576.jpg

HE SANDWICH BAG brims with weed.

On a frosty January evening in Eugene, a University of Oregon student plops onto a couch, nestled between a whirring space heater and a muted television at a friend's off-campus apartment, and pulls a nugget from the bag. At his feet sits a backpack emblazoned with the logo of the Rose Bowl, which he and his teammates had won barely a week before. "Purple Kush," he says of his preferred marijuana strand, which he rolls into a hefty joint between his forefingers and thumbs. "It's pretty much all I smoke."
he joint, to which he adds a dash of tobacco to make a spliff, is typical for this student-athlete. "Bongs and pipes mean more evidence," he says. He lights up, kicks back and exhales a dense cloud. Normally, he'd pass the spliff to one of his Oregon football teammates, but tonight he smokes alone. "Most of the guys are waiting until after winter workouts," he says. Once those conclude in March, he adds, they'll gather in clusters to partake together. About half the team smokes, he estimates. "It's a team thing. Like video games."

The Ducks are savoring their win over Wisconsin, Oregon's first victory in a Rose Bowl since 1917 and Chip Kelly's first postseason triumph as head coach. Earlier today, the school buzzed as the team made its victory lap around campus. Now, as one Duck relishes another kind of high, he wants to make something clear.

"It's not just us," he says, taking another hit. "If you think Oregon's the only team smoking weed, you're crazy."

NEWS FLASH: COLLEGE kids smoke weed. That includes, according to an NCAA study released in January, 22.6 percent of athletes -- up 1.4 percentage points from the previous study in 2005. College football players (26.7 percent) ranked the highest among major sports. And the Oregon football program provides an interesting case study on the impact -- or lack thereof -- of marijuana use among players. (AD Rob Mullens and Kelly declined to comment for this story.)

Situated in the lush Pacific Northwest, Oregon, as well as its southern and northern neighbors, California and Washington, are three of the country's largest producers of weed, earning the Drug Enforcement Agency's designation as an "M7 state," or a primary cultivator of marijuana. Perhaps because of the state's location, Oregon residents have long shown a tolerance for the drug. In 1973, the state was the first in the country to decriminalize possession for small amounts of pot, and 25 years later, Oregon became one of the first to legalize medical marijuana and now claims more than 55,000 card-carrying patients.

Nowhere is Oregon's laissez-faire approach to marijuana more apparent than Eugene, the state's counterculture and cannabis capital. "Business here is almost overwhelming," says a student-dealer who lives on -- no joke -- High Street. "Here, everybody smokes." Not surprisingly, The Princeton Review and High Times both have ranked the University of Oregon among the most pot-friendly schools. Another telltale, anecdotal sign: Into the 1990s, the Grateful Dead made Autzen Stadium a regular tour stop. "It's the weed capital of the world," says former Duck Reuben Droughns. "Long dreads. Girls with hairy armpits. Where there's hippies, there's weed."

Continue reading
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7819621/ncf-oregon-ducks-deny-drug-culture-eugene-espn-magazine

Tombstone RJ
04-18-2012, 12:29 PM
ya don't say!

Captain 'Dre
04-18-2012, 12:32 PM
ya don't say!

They're also saying that... <gasp!> water is wet!

Requiem
04-18-2012, 12:33 PM
Kush is my cologne, man I do it strong. -- Gucci Mane

gyldenlove
04-18-2012, 12:33 PM
If they don't get caught, I don't care. If they get themselves a nice season long ban because they can't work around the drug tests they should be savagely beaten.

jhns
04-18-2012, 12:34 PM
Weed smokers need to be in prison. You are ruining our society.

Requiem
04-18-2012, 12:35 PM
Weed smokers need to be in prison. You are ruining our society.

*passes it your way* You're a towel.

Tombstone RJ
04-18-2012, 12:35 PM
I do not understand why marijuana is not legalized already. The only one's profiting off the illegal designation of marijuana are the governement employees like the DEA and the for profit prison system.

Legalize it and tax it just like tobacco and alcohol.

Flex Gunmetal
04-18-2012, 12:36 PM
Weed smokers need to be in prison. You are ruining our society.

capitol punishment in my opinion.

lolcopter
04-18-2012, 12:38 PM
Article is two days too early imo

lololol

houghtam
04-18-2012, 12:44 PM
Why on earth would someone in that position even consider rolling a joint. I mean, think about it. You just won the Rose Bowl, you have your whole future ahead of you, you're BMOC...and you ruin it all by rolling that joint.



...should have bought a pipe, dude.

Natedog24
04-18-2012, 02:33 PM
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/18899172.jpg

.

TheChamp247
04-18-2012, 02:35 PM
Article is two days too early imo

lololol

lol, this

Archer81
04-18-2012, 02:48 PM
I dont care if someone wants to smoke weed. Go nuts. However, if you are in a situation where your employers/school do not want you to do it, then dont do it. If you can't stop, then dont be the dick that cries about it when they tell you before hand "do not do it".

:Broncos:

Ironlung
04-18-2012, 03:00 PM
The fact that weed is illegal is absolutely ridiculous.

Taco John
04-18-2012, 03:06 PM
This is the way I feel about it - if I were a coach, from July through January, you'd better be testing clean. From February to June, do what you will - but if you get thrown in jail for breaking any laws, you'll be dealt with accordingly.

chadta
04-18-2012, 03:13 PM
I dont care if someone wants to smoke weed. Go nuts. However, if you are in a situation where your employers/school do not want you to do it, then dont do it. If you can't stop, then dont be the dick that cries about it when they tell you before hand "do not do it".

:Broncos:

exactly, i have been told, i can not consume any alcohol while driving my company truck, be it on the clock or otherwise, so i don't, its really not a big deal, and unlike weed, beer is legal.

Ratboy
04-18-2012, 03:15 PM
Weed smokers need to be in prison. You are ruining our society.

o_O

BroncoMan4ever
04-18-2012, 03:22 PM
is there a single person who has gone to college that has not done drugs at some point?

i knew some really straight laced people and even they got hooked on some A.D.D meds to stay up studying.

this whole drug culture idea that so many have in regards to college athletes is a joke. these are college kids and college kids are experimenting. that is the time to cut loose.

Old Dude
04-18-2012, 03:55 PM
is there a single person who has gone to college that has not done drugs at some point?
...


Me!

But I'll admit that just about everyone else was stoned most of the tiime.

theStifmeister
04-18-2012, 04:04 PM
where are some good dispensaries in the denver area?

Jesterhole
04-18-2012, 04:04 PM
There is no reason for pot to be illegal. Has nothing to do with health or society, and everything to do with politics and money. Sigh.

Yet another reason I wish I lived in Colorado instead of Texas.

That One Guy
04-18-2012, 04:04 PM
is there a single person who has gone to college that has not done drugs at some point?

i knew some really straight laced people and even they got hooked on some A.D.D meds to stay up studying.

this whole drug culture idea that so many have in regards to college athletes is a joke. these are college kids and college kids are experimenting. that is the time to cut loose.

I don't buy it. I know my fair share of drug users but of the people I personally know, I'd say it's maybe 50/50 on those who have partaken. Probably more skewed to those that haven't, in reality.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-18-2012, 04:05 PM
Me!

But I'll admit that just about everyone else was stoned most of the tiime.

Yeah, i actually never touched it myself, but not because im against it. My college was nicknamed "weed" though!

That One Guy
04-18-2012, 04:05 PM
There is no reason for pot to be illegal. Has nothing to do with health or society, and everything to do with politics and money. Sigh.

Yet another reason I wish I lived in Colorado instead of Texas.

Speak with your feet.

kappys
04-18-2012, 04:05 PM
Me!

But I'll admit that just about everyone else was stoned most of the tiime.

I thought when you went to college Laudanum and Iron Bitters Cocaine Tonic were still legal?

Anikai
04-18-2012, 04:20 PM
Weed is the best hangover cure ever.

Old Dude
04-18-2012, 04:23 PM
I thought when you went to college Laudanum and Iron Bitters Cocaine Tonic were still legal?

What? They aren't anymore?

Chris
04-18-2012, 04:57 PM
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/18899172.jpg

.

This guy lives in my neighbourhood. Seen him sitting his rent is too damn high car.

BroncoMan4ever
04-18-2012, 05:05 PM
where are some good dispensaries in the denver area?

throw a rock in just about any direction in central denver and you'll hit a dispensary

Jesterhole
04-18-2012, 05:07 PM
Speak with your feet.

I make video games for a living. Colorado isn't an option =(

Lestat
04-18-2012, 05:22 PM
eh, Weed to me is much the same as cigarettes and alcohol. the effects and negative impacts are essentially the same in nature.
why that's legal and weed is not is kinda strange.

whether it's legal or illegal makes me no never mind. i don't drink,smoke or do drugs(have a ton of friends and family members who do, even got a uncle who grows his own weed) so unless someone does something dumb like get high or drunk then get behind the wheel i'll never really notice it.

extralife
04-18-2012, 05:23 PM
I make video games for a living. Colorado isn't an option =(

do you work for id

Tombstone RJ
04-18-2012, 05:28 PM
I make video games for a living. Colorado isn't an option =(

so you're in Austin? That's a pretty lib town, I'm sure there's weed floating around...

Drunken.Broncoholic
04-18-2012, 05:32 PM
Weed is the best hangover cure ever.

A double double from InNOut burger is the best hangover cure.

broncosteven
04-18-2012, 05:41 PM
I thought when you went to college Laudanum and Iron Bitters Cocaine Tonic were still legal?

I worked in IT for a couple hosptials and sometimes when we would be doing deployments (pre-Netware days) I would thumb through the prescription drug handbook that it seemed was at every desk while waiting for installs or reboots.

There was Cocktail at the end of the book made out of Coke, Morphine and a couple other things and it basicly said it used to legit for dying people but is no longer considered useful. It had a funky name too.

Cracked me up that they even had it in there.

COBronc78
04-18-2012, 05:49 PM
A double double from InNOut burger is the best hangover cure.

Combine that with pot. Best hangover cure...ever

Drunken.Broncoholic
04-18-2012, 05:51 PM
Combine that with pot. Best hangover cure...ever

Yes. A combination of fun.

Tombstone RJ
04-18-2012, 05:53 PM
Yes. A combination of fun.

with a diet cola...

broncosteven
04-18-2012, 06:01 PM
I do not understand why marijuana is not legalized already. The only one's profiting off the illegal designation of marijuana are the governement employees like the DEA and the for profit prison system.

Legalize it and tax it just like tobacco and alcohol.

I think the people who want it now can find it, if you legalize it you legitimize it and allow those who might not otherwise sought it out free reign to use. Why open Pandora's box for those people who might not otherwise seek it out? Why tell our kids it is acceptable to use when there are no legit uses for it?

I do think small time or single users should be treated as a scoff law, should no one else be harmed by the users actions, but the dealers should be thrown the book especially if they are moving other stuff like coke or junk etc

BTW what other countries have legalized it? I honestly don't know.

oubronco
04-18-2012, 06:02 PM
There is no reason for pot to be illegal. Has nothing to do with health or society, and everything to do with politics and money. Sigh.

Yet another reason I wish I lived in Colorado instead of Texas.

Yes we really need a country full of idiots sitting in front of the tube giggling and doing nothing all day and night with no ambition in life......Oh wait we already do, carry on

Anikai
04-18-2012, 06:09 PM
A double double from InNOut burger is the best hangover cure.

does it have weed in it? I live in the Northwest we don't have In N Out.

oubronco
04-18-2012, 06:13 PM
does it have weed in it? I live in the Northwest we don't have In N Out.

In N Out is what we do with our women around these parts :~ohyah!:

Anikai
04-18-2012, 06:17 PM
Whenever I go to wal-mart im always like "in & out" but i end up buying an x-box 360, new futon and 30 cans of pringles when all I needed was a pair of sweat pants.

Tombstone RJ
04-18-2012, 06:37 PM
I think the people who want it now can find it, if you legalize it you legitimize it and allow those who might not otherwise sought it out free reign to use. Why open Pandora's box for those people who might not otherwise seek it out? Why tell our kids it is acceptable to use when there are no legit uses for it?

I do think small time or single users should be treated as a scoff law, should no one else be harmed by the users actions, but the dealers should be thrown the book especially if they are moving other stuff like coke or junk etc

BTW what other countries have legalized it? I honestly don't know.

The thing is Pandora's box is already wide open, it's just that the state is not benefitting from it. The government will have much better control over marijuana if it's legalized, and it will get tax revenue to help fight crime and use for other things like education.

I think the current state of marijuana is much like illegal alcohol was back in the 1920s. Making alcohol illegal did way more damage to society than good. It empowered the criminal eliment, it burdened law enforcement and it forced people to hide and become criminals in order to have a drink. Not only that, many people died due to alcohol poisoning from bad batches of alcohol.

All people today have the choice to either smoke cigs and drink alcohol or not. They also have the choice to abuse these things or not. The same can be said for marijuana. Of course you will have abusers, it's inevitable. That being said, you can also have treatment for these people.

broncosteven
04-18-2012, 06:50 PM
The thing is Pandora's box is already wide open, it's just that the state is not benefitting from it. The government will have much better control over marijuana if it's legalized, and it will get tax revenue to help fight crime and use for other things like education.

I think the current state of marijuana is much like illegal alcohol was back in the 1920s. Making alcohol illegal did way more damage to society than good. It empowered the criminal eliment, it burdened law enforcement and it forced people to hide and become criminals in order to have a drink. Not only that, many people died due to alcohol poisoning from bad batches of alcohol.

All people today have the choice to either smoke cigs and drink alcohol or not. They also have the choice to abuse these things or not. The same can be said for marijuana. Of course you will have abusers, it's inevitable. That being said, you can also have treatment for these people.

There are a ton of other ways for people to self medicate and not deal with whatever issue they are trying to hide from.

I think the focus should be on challenging yourself to grow or overcome issues in your life rather than try filling it with substances.

I do find it funny that even Amsterdam that embraced the drug culture is now trying to distance itself from it and cracking down on the pot cafes and clean up the town.

My wife went to Europe when we were dating and she said it was dirty, smelled of piss and pot, and you could see junkies shooting/lighting up everywhere. Not something I want to see the USA turn into. We have enough trouble as it is.

Drunken.Broncoholic
04-18-2012, 06:51 PM
does it have weed in it? I live in the Northwest we don't have In N Out.

I think it originated Off the freeways in So Cali.

oubronco
04-18-2012, 06:53 PM
There are a ton of other ways for people to self medicate and not deal with whatever issue they are trying to hide from.

I think the focus should be on challenging yourself to grow or overcome issues in your life rather than try filling it with substances.

I do find it funny that even Amsterdam that embraced the drug culture is now trying to distance itself from it and cracking down on the pot cafes and clean up the town.

My wife went to Europe when we were dating and she said it was dirty, smelled of piss and pot, and you could see junkies shooting/lighting up everywhere. Not something I want to see the USA turn into. We have enough trouble as it is.

Amen Brotha and i've seen too many friends ruin their lives with drugs and alcohol

Tombstone RJ
04-18-2012, 07:29 PM
There are a ton of other ways for people to self medicate and not deal with whatever issue they are trying to hide from.

I think the focus should be on challenging yourself to grow or overcome issues in your life rather than try filling it with substances.

I do find it funny that even Amsterdam that embraced the drug culture is now trying to distance itself from it and cracking down on the pot cafes and clean up the town.

My wife went to Europe when we were dating and she said it was dirty, smelled of piss and pot, and you could see junkies shooting/lighting up everywhere. Not something I want to see the USA turn into. We have enough trouble as it is.

fair enough, I understand this argument. Then my next proposal would be to treat it like a traffic ticket. That is, if you are caught with a bag of weed, give the person a $150 ticket, confiscate the marijuana (and resell it of course, wink, wink) and then let the person go.

Unless someone has a huge amount of weed, make it a misdemeanor and generate state revenue off it via fines, and get the feds off everyone's backs.

Dedhed
04-18-2012, 07:41 PM
If 26% is the highest in college sports, they haven't polled lacrosse players.

BroncoMan4ever
04-18-2012, 07:42 PM
I think the people who want it now can find it, if you legalize it you legitimize it and allow those who might not otherwise sought it out free reign to use. Why open Pandora's box for those people who might not otherwise seek it out? Why tell our kids it is acceptable to use when there are no legit uses for it?

I do think small time or single users should be treated as a scoff law, should no one else be harmed by the users actions, but the dealers should be thrown the book especially if they are moving other stuff like coke or junk etc

BTW what other countries have legalized it? I honestly don't know.

i dislike that idea that if it becomes legal people who have no interest in it now will suddenly decide to seek it out if it were legal. if cocaine, heroin or meth became legal would you suddenly decide it was time to get smashed? unless you really wanted it to begin with, you aren't suddenly going to start shooting up, snorting coke or hitting the pipe and the same goes with weed.

kids should be taught about weed if it were legal the same as how they are taught about cigarrettes or alcohol. it is simple if you are a real parent.

Dedhed
04-18-2012, 07:44 PM
Amen Brotha and i've seen too many friends ruin their lives with drugs and alcohol
Just because someone can't use something responsibly, doesn't mean those who can shouldn't be allowed. That's idiot logic at it's finest.

I've seen too many friends ruin their lives by working too much in order to avoid responsibilities at home. Let's ban work!!!

Dedhed
04-18-2012, 07:46 PM
I think the people who want it now can find it, if you legalize it you legitimize it and allow those who might not otherwise sought it out free reign to use. Why open Pandora's box for those people who might not otherwise seek it out? Why tell our kids it is acceptable to use when there are no legit uses for it?

I do think small time or single users should be treated as a scoff law, should no one else be harmed by the users actions, but the dealers should be thrown the book especially if they are moving other stuff like coke or junk etc

BTW what other countries have legalized it? I honestly don't know.

We need look no further than prohibition to understand how moronic it is to try to outlaw drugs.

Vegas_Bronco
04-18-2012, 07:46 PM
Tell me more about salvia?

broncosteven
04-18-2012, 07:47 PM
fair enough, I understand this argument. Then my next proposal would be to treat it like a traffic ticket. That is, if you are caught with a bag of weed, give the person a $150 ticket, confiscate the marijuana (and resell it of course, wink, wink) and then let the person go.

Unless someone has a huge amount of weed, make it a misdemeanor and generate state revenue off it via fines, and get the feds off everyone's backs.

I am fine with that, we don't need to fill the prisons with dudes who blow weed. Those carrying or busted at any time for multiple substances or trafficking/growing with intent to sell should get the book thrown at them.

Requiem
04-18-2012, 07:48 PM
Tell me more about salvia?

It's crap.

broncosteven
04-18-2012, 08:08 PM
We need look no further than prohibition to understand how moronic it is to try to outlaw drugs.

Which is why we shouldn't lift the current prohibition (which has gone on much longer with less push back from the population) then try to get the genie back in the bottle should it not work out.

There is no value in blowing weed, hemp growing maybe if we needed lots of rope or a subsitute for cotton.

You smoke it to get stoned and check out. We need to find things that challenge us, work through our problems and make us better, not to self medicate and fill our voids.

I am still not sure if there is any country where it is legal to buy/sell/smoke pot. I don't see why we need to tell our kids that it is ok to use when they come of age. It is like telling them if they have a problem or life gets too hard you can fill it with cigs, alchohol, and now pot!

I am fine with not filling jails with smokers but I don't want to see it made OK to use.

Dedhed
04-18-2012, 08:25 PM
Which is why we shouldn't lift the current prohibition (which has gone on much longer with less push back from the population) then try to get the genie back in the bottle should it not work out.


Completely backwards. Weighing a lack of push back (which is arguable at best) compared to organized crime, underage use, lack of regulations, job creation, is laughable.

Lifting prohibition dragged this country out of the great depression by increasing tax revenue, jobs, and reducing govt dollars spent on an impossible task.

That One Guy
04-18-2012, 08:28 PM
i dislike that idea that if it becomes legal people who have no interest in it now will suddenly decide to seek it out if it were legal. if cocaine, heroin or meth became legal would you suddenly decide it was time to get smashed? unless you really wanted it to begin with, you aren't suddenly going to start shooting up, snorting coke or hitting the pipe and the same goes with weed.

kids should be taught about weed if it were legal the same as how they are taught about cigarrettes or alcohol. it is simple if you are a real parent.

I have no doubts people would be more likely to try something that's legal than illegal.

That One Guy
04-18-2012, 08:30 PM
Completely backwards. Weighing a lack of push back (which is arguable at best) compared to organized crime, underage use, lack of regulations, job creation, is laughable.

Lifting prohibition dragged this country out of the recession by increasing tax revenue, jobs, and reducing govt dollars spent on an impossible task.

LOL

Say what? Elaborate?

Dedhed
04-18-2012, 08:38 PM
LOL

Say what? Elaborate?

Roosevelt

Dedhed
04-18-2012, 08:49 PM
I have no doubts people would be more likely to try something that's legal than illegal.
Then why has the number of people who use drugs regularly never changed; since before there was such a thing as an illegal substance to now, the exact same percentage of the population falls into that category.

PS-I'm guessing you've never known, or been, a teenager.

That One Guy
04-18-2012, 09:03 PM
Then why has the number of people who use drugs regularly never changed; since before there was such a thing as an illegal substance to now, the exact same percentage of the population falls into that category.

PS-I'm guessing you've never known, or been, a teenager.

Can you provide any information as to your source for this? I have to know the parameters of this before I can accept it or call your stance looney.

That One Guy
04-18-2012, 09:05 PM
Roosevelt

Being vague doesn't answer my question.

It wasn't the new deal... it wasn't the increase in manufacturing as the war efforts increased... it was the repeal of prohibition 10 years beforehand that ended the "recession".

I'm just curious for your reasoning on this.

Anikai
04-18-2012, 10:31 PM
Tell me more about salvia?

they make extracts now that are so potent I saw a guy flip out...he thought he had bugs or something all over him he was running around crying, screaming begging us to get them off him..it lasted about 2-3 minutes, then he was back to normal

BroncoMan4ever
04-19-2012, 12:43 AM
Completely backwards. Weighing a lack of push back (which is arguable at best) compared to organized crime, underage use, lack of regulations, job creation, is laughable.

Lifting prohibition dragged this country out of the great depression by increasing tax revenue, jobs, and reducing govt dollars spent on an impossible task.

not to mention the amount of money paid into the prison system to incarcerate these people.

according to some sites it costs about 22,000 a year to keep a person in prison for a year. for a total cost of about 32 billion a year. now about 600,000 prisoners are currently incarcerated for drug related crimes. now lets say probably half are for weed. that means 300,000 people in prison for weed, which comes out to 6.6 billion dollars a year spent on keeping these people in prison. now granted in the grand scheme of things and considering what the national debt looks like, 6.6 billion isn't going to fix the country, but it would help a hell of a lot.

also that 6.6 billion totals out to about 42 dollars a year from each taxpaying american spent to keep weed related criminals in prison. or about 21 dollars from every individual american.

sgbfan
04-19-2012, 01:06 AM
not to mention the amount of money paid into the prison system to incarcerate these people.

according to some sites it costs about 22,000 a year to keep a person in prison for a year. for a total cost of about 32 billion a year. now about 600,000 prisoners are currently incarcerated for drug related crimes. now lets say probably half are for weed. that means 300,000 people in prison for weed, which comes out to 6.6 billion dollars a year spent on keeping these people in prison. now granted in the grand scheme of things and considering what the national debt looks like, 6.6 billion isn't going to fix the country, but it would help a hell of a lot.

also that 6.6 billion totals out to about 42 dollars a year from each taxpaying american spent to keep weed related criminals in prison. or about 21 dollars from every individual american.

I have a hard time believing that half the inmates on drug charges are for weed only.

houghtam
04-19-2012, 01:14 AM
I have a hard time believing that half the inmates on drug charges are for weed only.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least.

extralife
04-19-2012, 01:22 AM
I have no doubts people would be more likely to try something that's legal than illegal.

there is literally zero evidence to back this up

alkemical
04-19-2012, 06:27 AM
Tell me more about salvia?

Get an 1oz of the leaves, and eat it slowly over the course of an afternoon.

Make sure you have a few good trippin' buddies (or a shaman)- because you will see "god".

Dedhed
04-19-2012, 06:36 AM
Being vague doesn't answer my question.

It wasn't the new deal... it wasn't the increase in manufacturing as the war efforts increased... it was the repeal of prohibition 10 years beforehand that ended the "recession".

I'm just curious for your reasoning on this.
Within a few weeks of Roosevelt taking office Beer was legal. Alcohol prior to Prohibition was the 5th largest industry in the country. Adding that back into the economy is a HUGE boost.

It's no real secret that all prohibition accomplished was to take that money from the the govt and legitimate business owners (ie the economy) and deliver it directly into the hands of Al Capone and the like. While at the same time greatly increasing the amount of govt money that went to trying to enforce it.

Prohibition of alcohol was among the dumbest ideas in history, and it remains so today with any and all other drugs.

Dedhed
04-19-2012, 06:41 AM
there is literally zero evidence to back this upThere's actually quite a bit of evidence to support the exact opposite though.

Dedhed
04-19-2012, 06:50 AM
Can you provide any information as to your source for this? I have to know the parameters of this before I can accept it or call your stance looney.
"Law Enforcement Against Prohibition"

4% of the population used and abused drugs before there was an illegal drug.
4% of the population today uses and abuses drugs.

Ironlung
04-19-2012, 07:16 AM
There is no value in blowing weed


So what value does alcohol & tobacco provide?

Dedhed
04-19-2012, 07:20 AM
So what value does alcohol & tobacco provide?

Exactly right. There is no argument you can make for why alcohol and tobacco should be legal and other drugs should be illegal.

lolcopter
04-19-2012, 07:34 AM
Fact: it's easier for your children to get weed than alcohol because it's illegal

Bunch a tight assed non-CO residents itt.

jhns
04-19-2012, 07:41 AM
Exactly right. There is no argument you can make for why alcohol and tobacco should be legal and other drugs should be illegal.

Yes there is. Maybe not with weed, but you clearly don't know other drugs...

oubronco
04-19-2012, 08:05 AM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_wacoxGk8yCw/SHeIzeMMWDI/AAAAAAAAAjE/uNtVPB7ODiY/s400/street-stoners.jpg

lolcopter
04-19-2012, 08:09 AM
^cutler and flacco

alkemical
04-19-2012, 08:11 AM
http://www.disinfo.com/2012/04/the-u-s-government-is-committed-to-keeping-the-drug-market-as-dangerous-as-possible/


Jacob Sullum writes on Reason:

Yesterday the Justice Department unsealed an indictment that charges eight men from three countries with running “a sophisticated online drug marketplace that sold everything from marijuana to mescaline to some 3,000 people around the world,” AP reports:

“The Farmer’s Market”…allowed suppliers of drugs—including LSD, Ecstasy and ketamine—to anonymously sell their wares online. They hooked up with buyers in 34 countries and accepted various forms of payment, including cash, Western Union and PayPal transactions, the indictment claims….

The market “provided a controlled substances storefront, order forms, online forums, customer service, and payment methods for the different sources of supply” and charged the suppliers a commission based upon the value of the order, according to a statement from the U.S. attorney’s office in Los Angeles.

“For customers, the operators screened all sources of supply and guaranteed delivery of the illegal drugs,” the statement said …. The marketplace allegedly used the Tor…



http://www.disinfo.com/2012/04/legalizing-pot-would-raise-more-revenue-than-buffett-rule/

Legalizing Pot Would Raise More Revenue Than Buffett Rule

Posted by majestic on April 17, 2012

Medical-marijuana-signPhilip Klein makes a good economic case for legalization of marijuana, writing for the Washington Examiner:

Over the past week, President Obama spent time promoting the Buffett Rule surtax on millionaires and paid a visit to Colombia in which he reiterated his opposition to legalizing drugs. Though the two issues were unrelated, it’s worth remarking that legalizing drugs would actually do more to reduce deficits than implementing the Buffett Rule.

The Buffett tax, which failed to advance in the Senate last night, would have raised $5.1 billion in 2013 (theoretically its first full year of implementation), according to the Joint Committee on Taxation. Yet a 2010 study by the libertarian Cato Institute found that legalizing marijuana alone would save the federal government $3.3 billion in reduced enforcement expenditures per year and raise an additional $5.8 billion in revenue assuming it would be taxed. If all drugs were legalized, the study estimated it…

Heyneck
04-19-2012, 09:22 AM
Interesting thoughts... but look at it this way... How many death induced cases does weed cause a year? 0! Now... how many deaths a year does Cigarette and Alcohol cause? Thousands!!!

Weed should be legalized around the world. It's a huge way to stop drug traffic and for the governments to make money. Weed is the most sold drug in the world. It's got it's benefits... not only medically. People are just to close minded to realize that among all drugs (includes cigs and alcohol) is the least harmful to us. It has a stigma that weed produces stoners, slackers and that somehow is the gateway to other drugs.

Carl Sagan was one of the brightest minds of our era and he was pro weed and wrote a great text about it. He wrote it under the name Mr. X do to the social stigma.

For those of you who want to read his article: http://www.scribd.com/doc/25805478/Marijuana-Reconsidered-Carl-Sagan

For the lazy ones here are some of his thoughts:

(This account was written in 1969 for publication in Marihuana Reconsidered (1971). Sagan was in his mid-thirties at that time. He continued to use cannabis for the rest of his life.)

…Initially I was unwilling to partake, but the apparent euphoria that cannabis produced and the fact that there was no physiological addiction to the plant eventually persuaded me to try… I have smoked occasionally and enjoyed it thoroughly. It amplifies torpid sensibilities and produces what to me are even more interesting effects…

The cannabis experience has greatly improved my appreciation for art, a subject which I had never much appreciated before…

A very similar improvement in my appreciation of music has occurred with cannabis. For the first time I have been able to hear the separate parts of a three-part harmony and the richness of the counterpoint…

The enjoyment of food is amplified; tastes and aromas emerge that for some reason we ordinarily seem to be too busy to notice… Cannabis also enhances the enjoyment of sex…

I do not consider myself a religious person in the usual sense, but there is a religious aspect to some highs. The heightened sensitivity in all areas gives me a feeling of communion with my surroundings, both animate and inanimate…

When I'm high I can penetrate into the past, recall childhood memories, friends, relatives, playthings, streets, smells, sounds, and tastes from a vanished era. I can reconstruct the actual occurrences in childhood events only half understood at the time…

I find that most of the insights I achieve when high are into social issues, an area of creative scholarship very different from the one I am generally known for. I can remember one occasion, taking a shower with my wife while high, in which I had an idea on the origins and invalidities of racism in terms of gaussian distribution curves. It was a point obvious in a way, but rarely talked about. I drew the curves in soap on the shower wall, and went to write the idea down. One idea led to another, and at the end of about an hour of extremely hard work I found I had written eleven short essays on a wide range of social, political, philosophical, and human biological topics. Because of problems of space, I can't go into the details of these essays, but from all external signs, such as public reactions and expert commentary, they seem to contain valid insights. I have used them in university commencement addresses, public lectures, and in my books.

… I am convinced that there are genuine and valid levels of perception available with cannabis (and probably with other drugs) which are, through the defects of our society and our educational system, unavailable to us without such drugs…

… If you're high and your child is calling, you can respond about as capably as you usually do. I don't advocate driving when high on cannabis, but I can tell you from personal experience that it certainly can be done. My high is always reflective, peaceable, intellectually exciting, and sociable, unlike most alcohol highs, and there is never a hangover…

… the illegality of cannabis is outrageous, an impediment to full utilization of a drug which helps produce the serenity and insight, sensitivity and fellowship so desperately needed in this increasingly mad and dangerous world.

For those of you who don't know who Carl Sagan was... get to it and look him up. If you have the time for some actual profound knowledge look up his television series called "Cosmos: A personal voyage". Great mind... one of the reason I love looking up at the sky on a clear star filled night!!!

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmos:_A_Personal_Voyage)

houghtam
04-19-2012, 10:14 AM
Interesting thoughts... but look at it this way... How many death induced cases does weed cause a year? 0! Now... how many deaths a year does Cigarette and Alcohol cause? Thousands!!!

Weed should be legalized around the world. It's a huge way to stop drug traffic and for the governments to make money. Weed is the most sold drug in the world. It's got it's benefits... not only medically. People are just to close minded to realize that among all drugs (includes cigs and alcohol) is the least harmful to us. It has a stigma that weed produces stoners, slackers and that somehow is the gateway to other drugs.

Carl Sagan was one of the brightest minds of our era and he was pro weed and wrote a great text about it. He wrote it under the name Mr. X do to the social stigma.

For those of you who want to read his article: http://www.scribd.com/doc/25805478/Marijuana-Reconsidered-Carl-Sagan

For the lazy ones here are some of his thoughts:



For those of you who don't know who Carl Sagan was... get to it and look him up. If you have the time for some actual profound knowledge look up his television series called "Cosmos: A personal voyage". Great mind... one of the reason I love looking up at the sky on a clear star filled night!!!

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmos:_A_Personal_Voyage)

Well let's be sure to get all of our facts straight. Marijuana does cause deaths. While THC isn't dangerous, smoking marijuana (through a filterless cigarette or pipe/bong) causes cancer at a worse rate than filtered cigarettes.

That said, the fact that marijuana is illegal is a complete mystery to me. In my life the number of people I know who've allowed themselves to be hurt by drugs is roughly the same amount as those who've allowed themselves to go into massive debt, alcoholism, consumerism, etc. Just like anything else, marijuana can be abused by people with weak willpower. That doesn't mean we should outlaw credit cards, alcohol, or buying things because your neighbor has one.

While I was still working, I went from Manager in Training to District Manager, while smoking pretty much every day. The idea that it breeds irresponsible people who can't perform within society is false.

lolcopter
04-19-2012, 10:18 AM
Well let's be sure to get all of our facts straight. Marijuana does cause deaths. While THC isn't dangerous, smoking marijuana (through a filterless cigarette or pipe/bong) causes cancer at a worse rate than filtered cigarettes.



Source?

houghtam
04-19-2012, 10:31 AM
Source?

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-teenage-mind/201102/does-marijuana-cause-cancer

This article states that because there basically haven't been many long term studies (partially due to the social stigma attached to smoking pot to begin with), but that the properties of marijuana smoke have much in common with cigarette smoke.

In sum, just because there is not a large scale, longitudinal study proving marijuana smoke causes cancer, does not mean it can be ruled out. Marijuana smoke, like cigarette smoke, contains known carcinogens. There is considerable evidence that cigarette smoking is related to lung cancer and many other health hazards. It took decades to demonstrate this. The widespread use of marijuana for recreational uses is a relatively new phenomenon. With time and more research, marijuana smoke may very well prove to be as lethal as cigarette smoke.

http://lungcancer.about.com/od/causesoflungcance1/f/marijuana.htm

This article supports a lot of what the first one does, saying:

One study demonstrated a doubling in lung cancer for male marijuana smokers who also used tobacco. Another study found that long-term use of marijuana increased the risk of lung cancer in young adults (55 and under), with the risk increasing in proportion to the amount of marijuana smoked.

Why the controversy?

Since marijuana is illegal, it is hard to do the controlled studies that have been done with tobacco. Because of this, it helps to look at what we do know about marijuana:

- Many of the carcinogens and co-carcinogens present in tobacco smoke are also present in smoke from marijuana.

- Marijuana smoking does cause inflammation and cell damage, and it has been associated with pre-cancerous changes in lung tissue.

- Marijuana has been shown to cause immune system dysfunction, possibly predisposing individuals to cancer.

Heyneck
04-19-2012, 10:35 AM
one question... if pot was legalized does that mean the NFL and all other players could smoke without the league preventing them? Same would apply to traditional business (companies, corporations.. etc) right?

lolcopter
04-19-2012, 10:36 AM
neither article sufficiently backs up your initial claim

houghtam
04-19-2012, 10:39 AM
one question... if pot was legalized does that mean the NFL and all other players could smoke without the league preventing them? Same would apply to traditional business (companies, corporations.. etc) right?

No, employers pretty much have carte blanche to deny whatever they want. HGH is not on the federal schedule of restricted drugs, to my knowledge, but most sports have made it illegal even though it can be obtained with a viable prescription.

Bacchus
04-19-2012, 10:39 AM
I do not understand why marijuana is not legalized already. The only one's profiting off the illegal designation of marijuana are the governement employees like the DEA and the for profit prison system.

Legalize it and tax it just like tobacco and alcohol.

I agree, legalize the **** and tax it to pay off the debt. Let all the pot guys out of jail as well.

Hippies don't hurt people. People hurt people.

jhns
04-19-2012, 10:41 AM
one question... if pot was legalized does that mean the NFL and all other players could smoke without the league preventing them? Same would apply to traditional business (companies, corporations.. etc) right?

That would depend. Your employer could fire you for drinking on the job. They could do the sane with weed. The thing is, there is no way to prove someone is high at that moment. If they suspect that you are, and test you, you would be screwed if you had smoked recenently.

The NFL has also banned many things, mostly medical drugs, that are legal.

alkemical
04-19-2012, 10:43 AM
I agree, legalize the **** and tax it to pay off the debt. Let all the pot guys out of jail as well.

Hippies don't hurt people. People hurt people.

Well - i hate dirty hippies & biscuit kids.

**** those guys.

alkemical
04-19-2012, 10:43 AM
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-teenage-mind/201102/does-marijuana-cause-cancer

This article states that because there basically haven't been many long term studies (partially due to the social stigma attached to smoking pot to begin with), but that the properties of marijuana smoke have much in common with cigarette smoke.



http://lungcancer.about.com/od/causesoflungcance1/f/marijuana.htm

This article supports a lot of what the first one does, saying:


Well, the bong manufacturers tell me that smoking through water removes many of the carcinogens.

;)

lolcopter
04-19-2012, 10:46 AM
Well, the bong manufacturers tell me that smoking through water removes many of the carcinogens.

;)

Vaporize ftw

houghtam
04-19-2012, 10:47 AM
That would depend. Your employer could fire you for drinking on the job. They could do the sane with weed. The thing is, there is no way to prove someone is high at that moment. If they suspect that you are, and test you, you would be screwed if you had smoked recenently.

The NFL has also banned many things, mostly medical drugs, that are legal.

Employers don't even need to perform a drug test to fire you if they think you're smoking pot. In fact, in many cases it's in their better interests to just fire you without mentioning the pot or requiring a drug test.

In a situation like the NFL where a company is allowing other companies to participate in their league, I would be very surprised if the NFL would not be legally allowed to require being drug free as a prerequisite for participation in their league, regardless of whether said drug is legal for public use.

houghtam
04-19-2012, 10:49 AM
Vaporize ftw

I was not impressed with the vaporizer. The taste was much milder and there was no coughing, but the buzz was also much, much milder.

Good old fashioned $10 pipe is the way to go for me.

Cancer here I come!

alkemical
04-19-2012, 10:50 AM
Vaporize ftw

Nah, just cook with it :)

1z per lb.

alkemical
04-19-2012, 10:51 AM
I was not impressed with the vaporizer. The taste was much milder and there was no coughing, but the buzz was also much, much milder.

Good old fashioned $10 pipe is the way to go for me.

Cancer here I come!


Coughing = too much fertilizer used.

jhns
04-19-2012, 10:52 AM
Pipes get dirty. Role blunts.

houghtam
04-19-2012, 10:54 AM
Coughing = too much fertilizer used.

Nah, I'm just a lightweight.

alkemical
04-19-2012, 10:57 AM
Nah, I'm just a lightweight.

Hmmmmmm - I seeeeeee

I know when tomatoes don't taste so 'clean and tomatoey' - that usually the farmer used too much, or didn't flush before he picked.

Dedhed
04-19-2012, 11:17 AM
Yes there is. Maybe not with weed, but you clearly don't know other drugs...

Make the argument then.

Dedhed
04-19-2012, 11:17 AM
Pipes get dirty. Role blunts.

Pipes get found by police. Roll Js.

houghtam
04-19-2012, 11:21 AM
Hmmmmmm - I seeeeeee

I know when tomatoes don't taste so 'clean and tomatoey' - that usually the farmer used too much, or didn't flush before he picked.

No, I'm "the cougher". I ruin every pot circle I join.

jhns
04-19-2012, 11:21 AM
Pipes get found by police. Roll Js.

Yeah they do. I did a year of probation and drug counceling for a pipe. If they wouod have found it a month later, it would have been a $100 fine.

Dedhed
04-19-2012, 11:24 AM
Yeah they do. I did a year of probation and drug counceling for a pipe. If they wouod have found it a month later, it would have been a $100 fine.

That's absurd, but about par for the "war against drugs" fiasco.

jhns
04-19-2012, 11:25 AM
Make the argument then.

Try arguing that heroin, meth, crack, etc... aren't worse for you than smoking. Just try. This is your argument, not mine. I can tell you I know many drug users and you are completely wrong. I knew one guy that was legally dead two different times from shooting up meth. I have seen people do some crazy **** because they were coked out for four or five days straight. Shoot, you only need to look at a heroin addict, crackhead, or meth user to see how terrible those are for you.

I have not seen anything close to this from smokers. I live a normal life and smoke all the time. I am very healthy.

broncosteven
04-19-2012, 11:27 AM
Completely backwards. Weighing a lack of push back (which is arguable at best) compared to organized crime, underage use, lack of regulations, job creation, is laughable.

Lifting prohibition dragged this country out of the great depression by increasing tax revenue, jobs, and reducing govt dollars spent on an impossible task.

Organized crime and underaged use is not going away, crime will still be importing coke, heroin, and other controlled substances. We will still need to fight a war on drugs. The only people I see profitting are the street corner bodega's and some fat cats in Washington.

With prohibition the use of booze skyrocketed after it was banned, before that people used like they do today but with the ban it became the big thing to do. I am studying early Jazz, Gunther Schuller said that Jazz actually benefited by prohibition because people were partying and the dancing at that time was based around waltzes and cakewalks, boring stuff unless your old and can't move well on the floor. With the boon of speakeasy's there was a huge call for forbidden music to go with the forbidden booze and jazz players sprung up and had gigs all over the country.

After prohibition the swing era and big bands started taking hold and people went from the electric Charleston type beat back to ballroom type stuff.

I think it would be the opposite if the ban on pot were lifted.

I say leave the genie in the bottle, if you have to have it you can get it there is a risk but that is your choice. If it were such a good idea to legalize other countries would have done it. I would think that the South American countries would have legalized it by now.

houghtam
04-19-2012, 11:33 AM
If it were such a good idea to legalize other countries would have done it. I would think that the South American countries would have legalized it by now.


There are actually quite a few countries that have decriminalized marijuana or made it legal for medicinal purposes, including 5 South/Central American countries.

Nations with at least partial decriminalization of marijuana:

Argentina
Australia (in certain states)
Belgium
Brazil
Cambodia
Canada
Costa Rica
Croatia
Czech Republic
Ecuador
Estonia
Finland
India
Israel
Netherlands
Norway
Peru
Poland
Portugal
Spain
Switzerland
United States (in certain states)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis_by_country

broncosteven
04-19-2012, 11:53 AM
i dislike that idea that if it becomes legal people who have no interest in it now will suddenly decide to seek it out if it were legal. if cocaine, heroin or meth became legal would you suddenly decide it was time to get smashed? unless you really wanted it to begin with, you aren't suddenly going to start shooting up, snorting coke or hitting the pipe and the same goes with weed.

kids should be taught about weed if it were legal the same as how they are taught about cigarrettes or alcohol. it is simple if you are a real parent.

I have been at tons of parties where the dude who is holding becomes the most popular dude in the room.

My kids will be taught about the dangers of all substances especially the dangers of legit painkillers. What happens in the single parent households or the households where they just flat don't care or abuse their kids?

I am good friends with a lady I used to work with who was an original 60's hippie, joined the black panther party, was a closet anarchist and smoked since she was 15, she has severe paranoia, anxiety, panic attacks, which started in her 30's. Plus she has lung trouble because she smokes cigs because she say's it hightens the high after toking or something. To say it is a harmless drug and not addictive or leads to other addictions is a fallacy.

Dedhed
04-19-2012, 11:54 AM
Try arguing that heroin, meth, crack, etc... aren't worse for you than smoking. Just try. This is your argument, not mine.That's not my argument. My argument is that people who are likely to do heroin, meth, crack, etc are already doing, and that people who aren't won't go running for the crack pipe as soon as it's legalized.


I can tell you I know many drug users and you are completely wrong. I knew one guy that was legally dead two different times from shooting up meth. I have seen people do some crazy **** because they were coked out for four or five days straight. Shoot, you only need to look at a heroin addict, crackhead, or meth user to see how terrible those are for you. This supports my argument. None of that is abated by the fact that all of that is illegal.

I have not seen anything close to this from smokers. I live a normal life and smoke all the time. I am very healthy. I agree completely which is why I would never have interest in crack, heroin, meth, etc, even if it were legal. And neither would any of the many people I know who smoke weed regularly.

broncosteven
04-19-2012, 11:56 AM
There are actually quite a few countries that have decriminalized marijuana or made it legal for medicinal purposes, including 5 South/Central American countries.

Nations with at least partial decriminalization of marijuana:

Argentina
Australia (in certain states)
Belgium
Brazil
Cambodia
Canada
Costa Rica
Croatia
Czech Republic
Ecuador
Estonia
Finland
India
Israel
Netherlands
Norway
Peru
Poland
Portugal
Spain
Switzerland
United States (in certain states)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis_by_country

Like I said before I am ok with scoff law type penalties for pot users. If they use other controlled substances or are trafficking they should get the book.

I just don't want it available on a street corner bodega or legitimize it by legalization.

Dedhed
04-19-2012, 12:00 PM
I am good friends with a lady I used to work with who was an original 60's hippie, joined the black panther party, was a closet anarchist and smoked since she was 15, she has severe paranoia, anxiety, panic attacks, which started in her 30's. Plus she has lung trouble because she smokes cigs because she say's it hightens the high after toking or something. To say it is a harmless drug and not addictive or leads to other addictions is a fallacy.

This is an absurd anecdote on which to base your argument. So she smokes cigarettes to increase her high not because nicotine is among the most highly addictive drugs out there, and legal? GTFO.

You're argument still doesn't address the fact that the prohibition of weed, and likely the LSD, amphetamines, qualudes, and cocaine she was also doing, did nothing to stop her from using those drugs.

alkemical
04-19-2012, 12:01 PM
Organized crime and underaged use is not going away, crime will still be importing coke, heroin, and other controlled substances. We will still need to fight a war on drugs. The only people I see profitting are the street corner bodega's and some fat cats in Washington.

With prohibition the use of booze skyrocketed after it was banned, before that people used like they do today but with the ban it became the big thing to do. I am studying early Jazz, Gunther Schuller said that Jazz actually benefited by prohibition because people were partying and the dancing at that time was based around waltzes and cakewalks, boring stuff unless your old and can't move well on the floor. With the boon of speakeasy's there was a huge call for forbidden music to go with the forbidden booze and jazz players sprung up and had gigs all over the country.

After prohibition the swing era and big bands started taking hold and people went from the electric Charleston type beat back to ballroom type stuff.

I think it would be the opposite if the ban on pot were lifted.

I say leave the genie in the bottle, if you have to have it you can get it there is a risk but that is your choice. If it were such a good idea to legalize other countries would have done it. I would think that the South American countries would have legalized it by now.

Funny you say that:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=portugal-drug-decriminalization

5 Years After: Portugal's Drug Decriminalization Policy Shows Positive Results

Street drug?related deaths from overdoses drop and the rate of HIV cases crashes


http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Technoccult/~3/eo_laFoy3Q8/

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5g9C6x99EnFVdFuXw_B8pvDRzLqcA?docId=CNG.e740b 6d0077ba8c28f6d1dd931c6f679.5e1

Health experts in Portugal said Friday that Portugal’s decision 10 years ago to decriminalise drug use and treat addicts rather than punishing them is an experiment that has worked.

“There is no doubt that the phenomenon of addiction is in decline in Portugal,” said Joao Goulao, President of the Institute of Drugs and Drugs Addiction, a press conference to mark the 10th anniversary of the law.

The number of addicts considered “problematic” — those who repeatedly use “hard” drugs and intravenous users — had fallen by half since the early 1990s, when the figure was estimated at around 100,000 people, Goulao said.


http://truth-out.org/news/item/8371-the-us-war-on-drug-cartels-in-mexico-is-a-deadly-failure

Us war on drugs in mx is a failure.

Dedhed
04-19-2012, 12:03 PM
I just don't want it available on a street corner bodega or legitimize it by legalization.
Pssst- It's available on the street corner bodega right now.

Why do you care whether it's legitimized or not? Sounds like the racial sort of stuff that fueled alcohol prohibition.

alkemical
04-19-2012, 12:04 PM
This is an absurd anecdote on which to base your argument. So she smokes cigarettes to increase her high not because nicotine is among the most highly addictive drugs out there, and legal? GTFO.

You're argument still doesn't address the fact that the prohibition of weed, and likely the LSD, amphetamines, qualudes, and cocaine she was also doing, did nothing to stop her from using those drugs.

Nicotine is a drug all it's own.

It's also a fallacy that it "makes it better". That's the chemical reaction she's used too.

Beantown Bronco
04-19-2012, 12:06 PM
To say it is a harmless drug and not addictive or leads to other addictions is a fallacy.

I don't think anyone's really saying any of that.

It's simply no more harmful, addictive or anymore of a gateway drug than other currently legal things like alcohol and tobacco. Would you disagree with that?

Dedhed
04-19-2012, 12:07 PM
Nicotine is a drug all it's own.

It's also a fallacy that it "makes it better". That's the chemical reaction she's used too.

IMO, the whole anti-drug notion is nothing more than popular fallacy.

oubronco
04-19-2012, 12:11 PM
Try arguing that heroin, meth, crack, etc... aren't worse for you than smoking. Just try. This is your argument, not mine. I can tell you I know many drug users and you are completely wrong. I knew one guy that was legally dead two different times from shooting up meth. I have seen people do some crazy **** because they were coked out for four or five days straight. Shoot, you only need to look at a heroin addict, crackhead, or meth user to see how terrible those are for you.

I have not seen anything close to this from smokers. I live a normal life and smoke all the time. I am very healthy.

Not for or against it but i'm sure if you asked them all Pot was the precursor to all of those as was with everyone I know that is addicted to whatever they are addicted too

alkemical
04-19-2012, 12:11 PM
IMO, the whole anti-drug notion is nothing more than popular fallacy.

When you think of the TRUE cost of our "War on Drugs" - it has not had the ROI it was sold as.

Dedhed
04-19-2012, 12:16 PM
Organized crime and underaged use is not going away, crime will still be importing coke, heroin, and other controlled substances. We will still need to fight a war on drugs. The only people I see profitting are the street corner bodega's and some fat cats in Washington.It should ALL be decriminalized.

With prohibition the use of booze skyrocketed after it was banned, before that people used like they do today but with the ban it became the big thing to do.You realize that you're making a point in direct opposition to what you've stated earlier. You said making drugs illegal helps curb the use.



I am studying early Jazz, Gunther Schuller said that Jazz actually benefited by prohibition because people were partying and the dancing at that time was based around waltzes and cakewalks, boring stuff unless your old and can't move well on the floor. With the boon of speakeasy's there was a huge call for forbidden music to go with the forbidden booze and jazz players sprung up and had gigs all over the country.This is yet another point in my favor. While Jazz is a positive development, illegality only encourages use (particularly among rebellious youth) and fosters underground criminal behavior.


If it were such a good idea to legalize other countries would have done it. I would think that the South American countries would have legalized it by now.Again, that's just fallacious reasoning, not to mention a large number of countries are adopting very different drug policies with nothing but positive results.

Dedhed
04-19-2012, 12:19 PM
I don't think anyone's really saying any of that.

It's simply no more harmful, addictive or anymore of a gateway drug than other currently legal things like alcohol and tobacco. Would you disagree with that?

That's exactly the point. I would bet that 99% of people who have used marijuana had either smoked a cigarette or had a beer prior to that.

Beantown Bronco
04-19-2012, 12:23 PM
Agreed.

jhns
04-19-2012, 12:30 PM
Not for or against it but i'm sure if you asked them all Pot was the precursor to all of those as was with everyone I know that is addicted to whatever they are addicted too

A lot of that is just ease in getting it. Most people drink before smoking weed, because it is the easiest thing to get. Weed is a gateway drug because it takes people to drug dealers and those drug dealers end up offering other stuff. That wouldn't be the case if it were legal. I don't like the gateway drug argument.

houghtam
04-19-2012, 12:31 PM
Agreed.

I think Genekranzluvr69 is saying that we don't need yet another drug on the market readily available. That is a position I can respect, but do not agree with.

To the discussion about whether it's a gateway drug, it's a silly argument. For every person who I know who's tried marijuana and then tried real drugs, there is at least one person I know who's gone straight from legal drugs to real drugs, skipping pot. Hell, if you used the people I know, you'd probably find stronger evidence that smoking cigarettes leads to doing coke than leads to pot.

jhns
04-19-2012, 12:38 PM
That's not my argument. My argument is that people who are likely to do heroin, meth, crack, etc are already doing, and that people who aren't won't go running for the crack pipe as soon as it's legalized.


This supports my argument. None of that is abated by the fact that all of that is illegal.

I agree completely which is why I would never have interest in crack, heroin, meth, etc, even if it were legal. And neither would any of the many people I know who smoke weed regularly.

I would never be for legalizing any hard drugs. There are people that would try it if they were legal. Mainly, people that aren't social and don't have it offered to them now. Going to prison also changes some of their lives for the better. I know a guy that was a pretty big meth dealer, who stopped after prison. Too bad it was after most of his teeth were gone(at 25) and he already looked 20 years older. I have tried a ton of drugs, but never had heroin around me. If it was, I probably would have tried it. The only thing I woupdn't do as a teen, was use needles. You are discussing this topic with a perfect example of why this stuff shouldn't be legal.

I am all for pot being legal. I.will never agree with hard drugs being legal. Maybe the punishments just need to change with more emphasis on addiction counseling. That is the most I would go for.

lolcopter
04-19-2012, 12:39 PM
I think Genekranzluvr69 is saying that we don't need yet another plant on the market readily available. That is a position I can respect, but do not agree with.



fyp

broncosteven
04-19-2012, 01:52 PM
I think Genekranzluvr69 is saying that we don't need yet another drug on the market readily available. That is a position I can respect, but do not agree with.

To the discussion about whether it's a gateway drug, it's a silly argument. For every person who I know who's tried marijuana and then tried real drugs, there is at least one person I know who's gone straight from legal drugs to real drugs, skipping pot. Hell, if you used the people I know, you'd probably find stronger evidence that smoking cigarettes leads to doing coke than leads to pot.

I have often thought of changing my username and I really like the one you came up with. REP!

Yes I just don't want to see it readily available or legitimized with the legal stamp of approval.

I don't care if it used, and I don't think the prison system needs to be filled with users, I just don't want to add another drug that is deemed "acceptable" to use by the government.

lolcopter
04-19-2012, 01:56 PM
I don't want the government telling me what I can and cannot put into my own body in the privacy of my own home

Dedhed
04-19-2012, 01:56 PM
I don't care if it used... I just don't want to add another drug that is deemed "acceptable" to use by the government.

I don't understand this at all.

broncosteven
04-19-2012, 01:59 PM
This is an absurd anecdote on which to base your argument. So she smokes cigarettes to increase her high not because nicotine is among the most highly addictive drugs out there, and legal? GTFO.

You're argument still doesn't address the fact that the prohibition of weed, and likely the LSD, amphetamines, qualudes, and cocaine she was also doing, did nothing to stop her from using those drugs.

So are you saying that weed users are more likely to use all the above? Not sure why you would infer she was using all of that if pot is benign and users limit their use to just pot.

broncosteven
04-19-2012, 02:00 PM
I don't understand this at all.

I am getting that.

Dedhed
04-19-2012, 02:01 PM
I don't want the government telling me what I can and cannot put into my own body in the privacy of my own home

Neither do I. I also don't want them spending billions of taxpayer dollars on futility.

Dedhed
04-19-2012, 02:03 PM
I am getting that.

There's no substance to that take at all. It smacks of the racism that fueled prohibition.

broncosteven
04-19-2012, 02:04 PM
Pssst- It's available on the street corner bodega right now.

Why do you care whether it's legitimized or not? Sounds like the racial sort of stuff that fueled alcohol prohibition.

Where did race become the issue? I never brought it up.

Beantown Bronco
04-19-2012, 02:08 PM
I have often thought of changing my username and I really like the one you came up with. REP!


or you could always go this route:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2RF6g_Fky9A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Dedhed
04-19-2012, 02:09 PM
Where did race become the issue? I never brought it up.

I'm not saying race is the issue for you per se, but you don't care about the use as long as you can still point at them and call them "illegitimate."

Prior to prohibition certain groups pushed to "illegitimize" alcohol so they could persecute certain ethnic and racial groups.

broncosteven
04-19-2012, 02:31 PM
I'm not saying race is the issue for you per se, but you don't care about the use as long as you can still point at them and call them "illegitimate."

Prior to prohibition certain groups pushed to "illegitimize" alcohol so they could persecute certain ethnic and racial groups.

I don't want to know who does what in the privacy of their own homes, I don't want to know you enjoy weed or LSD or an occasional bump of coke. I don't want to see an eighth at the counter in the checkout at the store or anyone lighting up in the parking lot. You want to use peacefully in your home that is your business.

Prohibition had many issues, one of which were men were using their pay to drink in bars all night leaving their family's without an income. Hull house and other places were formed around that time because women had little to no rights, were looked down on if they worked outside the house and were beaten regularly the man ruled the household and if he wanted to go out an drink away his income the women and family had no recourse. The times are as different as the substances we are talking about. To prop up your argument on causes and effects from a culture that that is totally different 90 years later is rickety at best.

lolcopter
04-19-2012, 02:41 PM
. I don't want to see an eighth at the counter in the checkout at the store or anyone lighting up in the parking lot. You want to use peacefully in your home that is your business.


So you would rather people buy it from some guy on the street then? The same guy who has no qualms with selling to minors and possibly pushing harder more addictive substances?

Does not compute


The prohibition paragraph is pretty funny too. While I'm sure there were a few drunkards ruining their family over the booze, prohibition was primarily fueled by the "morality" of the masses... which seems to be one of your primary arguments in favor of retaining criminalization of a plant

jhns
04-19-2012, 02:43 PM
The one big problem I have with legal weed is that it is much more expensive than going to a dealer.

Dedhed
04-19-2012, 02:44 PM
I don't want to know who does what in the privacy of their own homes, I don't want to know you enjoy weed or LSD or an occasional bump of coke. I don't want to see an eighth at the counter in the checkout at the store or anyone lighting up in the parking lot. You want to use peacefully in your home that is your business.

Prohibition had many issues, one of which were men were using their pay to drink in bars all night leaving their family's without an income. Hull house and other places were formed around that time because women had little to no rights, were looked down on if they worked outside the house and were beaten regularly the man ruled the household and if he wanted to go out an drink away his income the women and family had no recourse. The times are as different as the substances we are talking about. To prop up your argument on causes and effects from a culture that that is totally different 90 years later is rickety at best.
The culture surrounding illegal drugs today is identical to that which surrounded alcohol during prohibition (organized crime, unregulated and untaxed use, it's all still right there; of course society has changed.

You want to take an "out of sight out of mind stance" while we waste billions upon billions of dollars fighting a futile battle that does far more harm than it does good.

lolcopter
04-19-2012, 02:47 PM
The one big problem I have with legal weed is that it is much more expensive than going to a dealer.

Not true. The market here in Denver has pushed 1/8th prices down to $40 or lower as compared to the $50 standard. Prices were high (teehee) in the beginning, but dispensaries eventually had to start lowering prices to remain competitive. Good for the consumer, good for the industry, and good for the state (collecting them taxes)

Dedhed
04-19-2012, 02:47 PM
So you would rather people buy it from some guy on the street then? The same guy who has no qualms with selling to minors and possibly pushing harder more addictive substances?

Does not compute


The prohibition paragraph is pretty funny too. While I'm sure there were a few drunkards ruining their family over the booze, prohibition was primarily fueled by the "morality" of the masses... which seems to be one of your primary arguments in favor of retaining criminalization of a plant

There's not much fact involved in his argument. Maybe the idea that children can get weed (meth, LSD, etc.) far more easily than they can get alcohol would relate to him.

lolcopter
04-19-2012, 02:51 PM
There's not much fact involved in his argument. Maybe the idea that children can get weed (meth, LSD, etc.) far more easily than they can get alcohol would relate to him.

Not only that, but by keeping it underground as it were, the quality control is next to non existent... You have no idea what you're getting. When you go to a dispensary you can more often than not find how where it was grown, how it was grown, for how long, strain types, THC/CBD measurements, and far more useful information about the product you're about to ingest

Criminalization makes no sense whatsoever from a financial, public health, and general common sense point of view

jhns
04-19-2012, 02:52 PM
Yeah they do. I did a year of probation and drug counceling for a pipe. If they would have found it a month later, it would have been a $100 fine.

This sent me down memory lane. Do you know how awkward it is to have to go to NA meetings for weed paraphernalia?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/uUPHlAbAf2I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


I did get to hear lot of great stories though.

DBroncos4life
04-19-2012, 02:54 PM
Not true. The market here in Denver has pushed 1/8th prices down to $40 or lower as compared to the $50 standard. Prices were high (teehee) in the beginning, but dispensaries eventually had to start lowering prices to remain competitive. Good for the consumer, good for the industry, and good for the state (collecting them taxes)

The weed that comes into Nebraska now is much better then it ever used to be because of Colorado. I don't smoke, but I know lots of people that do. :P

Requiem
04-19-2012, 03:00 PM
If you are paying $40 an 1/8th in Denver you are crazy. You can get 10 grams for 50 bucks.

broncosteven
04-19-2012, 03:02 PM
So you would rather people buy it from some guy on the street then? The same guy who has no qualms with selling to minors and possibly pushing harder more addictive substances?

Does not compute


The prohibition paragraph is pretty funny too. While I'm sure there were a few drunkards ruining their family over the booze, prohibition was primarily fueled by the "morality" of the masses... which seems to be one of your primary arguments in favor of retaining criminalization of a plant

Minors get booze and smokes now whats not to say that they will have a lot more access to it if it can be bought freely and they see their older family members and friends using it?

If pot is legalized that still leaves the dealers to push the other stuff, Dedhead's argument is legalize it all. Is that the message we want to send our youth? Here pick your SOMA self medicate, drop out.

Where do you draw the line as a society? It is a totally moral issue. My stance is that if you want to break the law that is your choice, but a guy who has a small amount of weed should not be treated like a drug mule and thrown into jail.

Bad guys are going to find bad ways to make fast money.

lolcopter
04-19-2012, 03:03 PM
If you are paying $40 an 1/8th in Denver you are crazy. You can get 10 grams for 50 bucks.

Top shelf prices for the standard amount. But yeah, if you buy in bulk in can get ridiculously cheap

Requiem
04-19-2012, 03:05 PM
Top shelf prices for the standard amount. But yeah, if you buy in bulk in can get ridiculously cheap

The most I paid for a top shelf 1/8th was $35 at VIP near Alameda. I was up in the Fraser Valley, so I really didn't have to go down to Denver to get my **** and nobody made me pay more than $30 and it was all boss.

broncosteven
04-19-2012, 03:06 PM
The culture surrounding illegal drugs today is identical to that which surrounded alcohol during prohibition (organized crime, unregulated and untaxed use, it's all still right there; of course society has changed.

You want to take an "out of sight out of mind stance" while we waste billions upon billions of dollars fighting a futile battle that does far more harm than it does good.

Do you think organized crime is going to go away with legalization?

lolcopter
04-19-2012, 03:07 PM
.

Where do you draw the line as a society? It is a totally moral issue. My stance is that if you want to break the law that is your choice, but a guy who has a small amount of weed should not be treated like a drug mule and thrown into jail.

Bad guys are going to find bad ways to make fast money.

1) it's been proven time and time again that legislating morality is a lost cause

2) when the law is more harmful to the citizenry than the actual substance, the system is broken and needs a serious change

3) if you want bad guys to have a fast and easy way to make a lot of money keep it illegal. Black markets increase prices while removing any possible tax venues for the state. See: prohibition and the rise of mobsters who ruled

lolcopter
04-19-2012, 03:10 PM
Do you think organized crime is going to go away with legalization?

It would certainly decrease. Who is going to pay $50 for an 1/8th of mexibrick when you can get an 1/8th of the kind homegrown for $25

Black market = higher prices
Higher prices = more incentive for criminals to make $$$ and sell the product

If you flood the market with legal high quality product there will be little incentive for bad guys to continue to push it. The payoff would no longer be worth the gamble. By keeping it illegal you are only retaining the high risk high reward behavior that currently exists

Dedhed
04-19-2012, 03:12 PM
Minors get booze and smokes now whats not to say that they will have a lot more access to it if it can be bought freely and they see their older family members and friends using it?They get illegal drugs far more easily. And the family members argument can be applied to beer, tobacco, cars, porn, guns, etc. And, again, there's zero evidence to support that making drugs illegal curbs use.

If pot is legalized that still leaves the dealers to push the other stuff, Dedhead's argument is legalize it all. Is that the message we want to send our youth? Here pick your SOMA self medicate, drop out. If it's legal you effectively eliminate the dealer. There called business owners with responsibilities to adhere to regulations. How many "alcohol dealers are out there?

Where do you draw the line as a society? It is a totally moral issue.Why are we still dumb enough to imagine that we should police morality? Where do we draw the line the other way? Should we police every moral issue? Should abstaining from church be illegal? How is using alcohol not a moral issue? Tobacco? Gambling?

Your argument holds no water.

lolcopter
04-19-2012, 03:14 PM
I hear sodomy is bad

Dedhed
04-19-2012, 03:15 PM
Do you think organized crime is going to go away with legalization?

No. Crime will never go away, which is really what you're alluding to. Again, we only need to look at what happened to organized crime surrounding alcohol to learn our lesson.

broncosteven
04-19-2012, 03:15 PM
They get illegal drugs far more easily. And the family members argument can be applied to beer, tobacco, cars, porn, guns, etc. And, again, there's zero evidence to support that making drugs illegal curbs use.

If it's legal you effectively eliminate the dealer. There called business owners with responsibilities to adhere to regulations. How many "alcohol dealers are out there?

Why are we still dumb enough to imagine that we should police morality? Where do we draw the line the other way? Should we police every moral issue? Should abstaining from church be illegal? How is using alcohol not a moral issue? Tobacco? Gambling?

Your argument holds no water.

I heard or read somewhere that laws are in place to keep honest people honest.

Crime bosses are not going to go legit and pay taxes and suddenly become model citizens because drugs are legal, they will move on to other game.

lolcopter
04-19-2012, 03:16 PM
Crime bosses don't push weed. Hippies do

Dedhed
04-19-2012, 03:17 PM
I heard or read somewhere that laws are in place to keep honest people honest.

Crime bosses are not going to go legit and pay taxes and suddenly become model citizens because drugs are legal, they will move on to other game.

You didn't answer to anything I wrote.

broncosteven
04-19-2012, 03:43 PM
They get illegal drugs far more easily. And the family members argument can be applied to beer, tobacco, cars, porn, guns, etc. And, again, there's zero evidence to support that making drugs illegal curbs use.


I agree that kids can get all of those the same ways their access would be greater if drugs were legal is my point. You need a way to motivate the honest people to stay honest.


If it's legal you effectively eliminate the dealer. There called business owners with responsibilities to adhere to regulations. How many "alcohol dealers are out there?


Ya I don't see this happening at all. Like suddenly the old crime rings are going to get a day job and turn over a large cut of their profits and suddenly pay taxes. right.


Why are we still dumb enough to imagine that we should police morality? Where do we draw the line the other way? Should we police every moral issue? Should abstaining from church be illegal? How is using alcohol not a moral issue? Tobacco? Gambling?

Your argument holds no water.

It is called voting, that is where we draw the line. If dispensaries are voted in and they help raise the value of my house and town and small time users are treated as scoff law offenders I am ok with that.

I am not Ok with saying lets legalize it all and sell coke, crack, crank, weed at the local Safeway/bodega.

If you legalize just pot the infrastructure for the other things remain in place and you serve no real purpose. Leave things as it is and if the despensary's work and do what people think they will to raise money in a couple years I will be willing to reconsider my stance. I just think it would be a lot harder to reinstate the prohibition should the US become the **** hole that Amsterdam has become.

alkemical
04-20-2012, 10:06 AM
http://www.dangerousminds.net/images/uploads/4201dfgdfg.jpg

alkemical
04-20-2012, 10:06 AM
http://www.dangerousminds.net/images/uploads/4201sdfsd.jpg

Dedhed
04-20-2012, 10:12 AM
http://www.dangerousminds.net/images/uploads/4201sdfsd.jpg

lol

Tombstone RJ
04-20-2012, 10:12 AM
one question... if pot was legalized does that mean the NFL and all other players could smoke without the league preventing them? Same would apply to traditional business (companies, corporations.. etc) right?

Not necessarily. However I think the NFLPA would fight hard to have weed removed as a banned substance because it's not performance inhancing.

alkemical
04-20-2012, 10:18 AM
Not necessarily. However I think the NFLPA would fight hard to have weed removed as a banned substance because it's not performance inhancing.

http://feeds.boingboing.net/~r/boingboing/iBag/~3/jPeLp9n7ENk/pot-helps-student-athletes-per.html

Pot helps student athletes perform at high level
The Oregon Ducks won the Rose Bowl. This article says about half the team was smoking marijuana. From ESPN: The Ducks are savoring their win over Wisconsin, Oregon's first victory in a Rose Bowl since 1917 and Chip Kelly's first postseason triumph as head coach. Earlier today, the school buzzed as the team made its victory lap around campus. No...
from Boing Boing - Apr 19, 2012 (yesterday)

Tombstone RJ
04-20-2012, 10:20 AM
http://feeds.boingboing.net/~r/boingboing/iBag/~3/jPeLp9n7ENk/pot-helps-student-athletes-per.html

Pot helps student athletes perform at high level
The Oregon Ducks won the Rose Bowl. This article says about half the team was smoking marijuana. From ESPN: The Ducks are savoring their win over Wisconsin, Oregon's first victory in a Rose Bowl since 1917 and Chip Kelly's first postseason triumph as head coach. Earlier today, the school buzzed as the team made its victory lap around campus. No...
from Boing Boing - Apr 19, 2012 (yesterday)

Hilarious!

well how come Miami U isn't winning then?

alkemical
04-20-2012, 10:22 AM
Hilarious!

well how come Miami U isn't winning then?

****ty weed?

;)