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View Full Version : Antenna Advice Requested: HD TV


Kaylore
04-16-2012, 10:50 AM
After our recent move, our Dish cannot get local channels. The guy was able to put in an OTA modulator so I can use my DVR for OTA channels and get them in 1080p - something neither satelite nor Cable can do.

The problem is the antenna I had wasn't strong enough for all the channels (but apparently strong enough for a crap load of Spanish ones.) Does anyone in the Denver-Metro area no where to buy a good Antenna that is strong enough to pick up all the locals? We live in an apartment so something that can be mounted on a tripod that isn't incredibly massive would be preferable.

Drunken.Broncoholic
04-16-2012, 10:52 AM
An OTA modulater can change TV channels from 1080i to 1080p?

Kaylore
04-16-2012, 10:55 AM
An OTA modulater can change TV channels from 1080i to 1080p?

Maybe its only 1080i? I just know its better than 720 the other three get.

Drunken.Broncoholic
04-16-2012, 10:57 AM
Maybe its only 1080i? I just know its better than 720 the other three get.

I believe 1080i is the highest you can go with TV and blue ray brings it to 1080p. I got comcast so don't know much about Dish. Does it get knocked out from the storms you guys have back there often?

Kaylore
04-16-2012, 11:05 AM
I believe 1080i is the highest you can go with TV and blue ray brings it to 1080p. I got comcast so don't know much about Dish. Does it get knocked out from the storms you guys have back there often?

No. We moved and the angle of our apartment means I have to hit the Easter Arc, which is fine but I cannot get locals. I got a discount, so for the DVR and my base programming on two TV's my bill $15 a moth. The Dish equipment doubles as a converter for OTA, you just don't get the programming guide, which is find. We're probably going to keep doing Netflix, Hulu Plus <s>and downloading torrents of the exclusive shows like game of thrones</s> so I just need this for the games. Parker is pretty far from the transmitters and I can't get NBC which sucks since it has MNF and we're going to be getting at least two of those games this year.

Fedaykin
04-16-2012, 11:14 AM
After our recent move, our Dish cannot get local channels. The guy was able to put in an OTA modulator so I can use my DVR for OTA channels and get them in 1080p - something neither satelite nor Cable can do.

The problem is the antenna I had wasn't strong enough for all the channels (but apparently strong enough for a crap load of Spanish ones.) Does anyone in the Denver-Metro area no where to buy a good Antenna that is strong enough to pick up all the locals? We live in an apartment so something that can be mounted on a tripod that isn't incredibly massive would be preferable.

Make sure you buy the *correct* type of antenna!!!

Different antennas are tuned for different frequencies. If you buy a fancy pants antenna that isn't tuned to the frequencies you need, you're boned.

See: http://www.hdtvantennalabs.com/tv-antenna-type.php

Jetmeck
04-16-2012, 11:17 AM
Got nothing to do with how "strong" THE ANTENNA is. Powered antennas I have tried in the past don't do much of anything.

Believe it or not have had best recption with rabbit ears as far as the type of antenna.............. it has more to do with how high you can get the antenna in relation to your house and how far away the signal is coming from.

Just don't buy some expensive so called HDTV antenna...........there is no such thing as a HDTV specific antenna regardless of what they call it. Antenna you watched BUGS Bunny on as a kid will do the exact same thing.....................

All else fails put one on the roof, run coax to your Dish receiver's tuner or tv tuner and you will get all the channels including the few Spanish channels you just may be missing or the several religious channels you surely will want to get...........lol

Jetmeck
04-16-2012, 11:17 AM
Make sure you buy the *correct* type of antenna!!!

Different antennas are tuned for different frequencies. If you buy a fancy pants antenna that isn't tuned to the frequencies you need, you're boned.

See: http://www.hdtvantennalabs.com/tv-antenna-type.php

no............just no

Jetmeck
04-16-2012, 11:18 AM
Make sure you buy the *correct* type of antenna!!!

Different antennas are tuned for different frequencies. If you buy a fancy pants antenna that isn't tuned to the frequencies you need, you're boned.

See: http://www.hdtvantennalabs.com/tv-antenna-type.php

no............just no. How the hell do you tune an antenna ?

Is that like how you tuna fish ? Just wondering ?

Kaylore
04-16-2012, 11:19 AM
When I said "strong" I meant bigger. The one I had was too small. I find the power amplifiers do more to hinder my signal, for some reason.

And don't worry. I know a lot of people have been fooled into thinking they need an "HD antenna" whatever that is.

Fedaykin
04-16-2012, 11:20 AM
no............just no. How the hell do you tune an antenna ?

Is that like how you tuna fish ? Just wondering ?

Take your ignorance elseware.

'So, the question you should ask yourself is what broadcasts are available in your area and what are reception conditions with respect to each one of the broadcasts you are interested in. We are going to answer that question shortly. But first, we need a terminology to qualitatively describe the reception conditions of a particular broadcast in your area. Reception conditions are specified by a color code. The Consumer Electronics Association (CEA) defined seven color zones - Yellow, Green, Light Green, Red, Blue, Violet and Pink. Yellow zone is the one where reception quality is the best, pink zone is the toughest. Each color zone has an associated tv antenna type that the CEA recommends to use in this zone. CEA classification applies to outdoor tv antennas only. "

Drunken.Broncoholic
04-16-2012, 11:22 AM
Got nothing to do with how "strong" THE ANTENNA is. Powered antennas I have tried in the past don't do much of anything.

Believe it or not have had best recption with rabbit ears as far as the type of antenna.............. it has more to do with how high you can get the antenna in relation to your house and how far away the signal is coming from.

Just don't buy some expensive so called HDTV antenna...........there is no such thing as a HDTV specific antenna regardless of what they call it. Antenna you watched BUGS Bunny on as a kid will do the exact same thing.....................

All else fails put one on the roof, run coax to your Dish receiver's tuner or tv tuner and you will get all the channels including the few Spanish channels you just may be missing or the several religious channels you surely will want to get...........lol


Ha! For a while the term "HD" got trendy. Calling everything HD even though it wasn't. Like HD sunglasses. HD antennas.

Fedaykin
04-16-2012, 11:22 AM
When I said "strong" I meant bigger. The one I had was too small. I find the power amplifiers do more to hinder my signal, for some reason.

And don't worry. I know a lot of people have been fooled into thinking they need an "HD antenna" whatever that is.

It's not a question of needing an "HD antenna" it's a question of having an antenna that is suitable to your reception conditions and the channels available.

It has nothing to do with HD vs SD.

Jetmeck
04-16-2012, 11:24 AM
Take your ignorance elseware.

'So, the question you should ask yourself is what broadcasts are available in your area and what are reception conditions with respect to each one of the broadcasts you are interested in. We are going to answer that question shortly. But first, we need a terminology to qualitatively describe the reception conditions of a particular broadcast in your area. Reception conditions are specified by a color code. The Consumer Electronics Association (CEA) defined seven color zones - Yellow, Green, Light Green, Red, Blue, Violet and Pink. Yellow zone is the one where reception quality is the best, pink zone is the toughest. Each color zone has an associated tv antenna type that the CEA recommends to use in this zone. CEA classification applies to outdoor tv antennas only. "

Your full of chit.
I already told him about signal strength ?

Oh wait your saying it takes a different type of antenna for which area your in ? Which one do you use for your BOZO zone ?

Tell me how to tune an antenna again.......lol
The tuner is in the tv or receiver...............

maven
04-16-2012, 11:24 AM
http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direct-ClearStream4-HDTV-Antenna/dp/B001BRXW74/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334597030&sr=8-1

baja
04-16-2012, 11:25 AM
http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/1152377/2/istockphoto_1152377-coat-hanger.jpg

Jetmeck
04-16-2012, 11:26 AM
Needed a good laugher....................

Fedaykin
04-16-2012, 11:27 AM
Your full of chit.
I already told him about signal strength ?

Oh wait your saying it takes a different type of antenna for which area your in ? Which one do you use for your BOZO zone ?

Tell me how to tune an antenna again.......lol
The tuner is in the tv or receiver...............

It's not about tuning the antenna. It's about having an antenna constructed to be best suited to picking up particular frequencies.

Not all antennas are equally sensitive to all frequencies, idjit.

55CrushEm
04-16-2012, 11:27 AM
No. We moved and the angle of our apartment means I have to hit the Easter Arc, which is fine but I cannot get locals. I got a discount, so for the DVR and my base programming on two TV's my bill $15 a moth. The Dish equipment doubles as a converter for OTA, you just don't get the programming guide, which is find. We're probably going to keep doing Netflix, Hulu Plus <s>and downloading torrents of the exclusive shows like game of thrones</s> so I just need this for the games. Parker is pretty far from the transmitters and I can't get NBC which sucks since it has MNF and we're going to be getting at least two of those games this year.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. You pay $15/month for your satellite service?!?!?

WTF? How'd you swing that?

Jetmeck
04-16-2012, 11:28 AM
http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/1152377/2/istockphoto_1152377-coat-hanger.jpg

That'll only work in the BS zone......of course on here that would be perfect .....................I do not know if the BS zone is yellow or pink.
I will get back to you though................

baja
04-16-2012, 11:29 AM
Whoa, whoa, whoa. You pay $15/month for your satellite service?!?!?

WTF? How'd you swing that?

The "All Mormon" programing package

Kaylore
04-16-2012, 11:29 AM
http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direct-ClearStream4-HDTV-Antenna/dp/B001BRXW74/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334597030&sr=8-1

I appreciate the information. Really I just want to know what antenna anyone uses and if they can get one locally here in Colorado or have to order.

Jetmeck
04-16-2012, 11:30 AM
It's not about tuning the antenna. It's about having an antenna constructed to be best suited to picking up particular frequencies.

Not all antennas are equally sensitive to all frequencies, idjit.

BS dude you are believing all the hype. Rabbit ears will pull in HD channels or a coat hanger will to...............I have done it........be gone.......................Hilarious!

Jetmeck
04-16-2012, 11:32 AM
I appreciate the information. Really I just want to know what antenna anyone uses and if they can get one locally here in Colorado or have to order.

Table models at Walmart or any electronic store or Radio Shack.
Radio Shack might have a roof mount one too although your apartment peep may not like that.

Fedaykin
04-16-2012, 11:32 AM
BS dude you are believing all the hype. Rabbit ears will pull in HD channels or a coat hanger will to...............I have done it........be gone.......................Hilarious!

Yep, any old antenna will pick up some things most of the time. The correct antenna type will pick up more things with better quality.

Kaylore
04-16-2012, 11:32 AM
Whoa, whoa, whoa. You pay $15/month for your satellite service?!?!?

WTF? How'd you swing that?

I have the Dish package "Welcome Pack (http://www.mydish.com/support/channels/packagewelcomepack.aspx)." It's not advertised and you get next to nothing. I mostly have it for the DVR and a few channels we do watch. We watch most of our TV on the internet now. We'll "Rev up" our packaging when football starts up again.

maven
04-16-2012, 11:34 AM
I appreciate the information. Really I just want to know what antenna anyone uses and if they can get one locally here in Colorado or have to order.

Do you plan to mount it on a tripod inside your apt or do you have a balcony where you could mount it outside?

http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direct-C2-CLEARSTREAM2-Antenna/dp/B0017O3UHI/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1334597759&sr=1-3

The one linked above is the single.

Jetmeck
04-16-2012, 11:40 AM
Once I used an old Y shaped FM antenna from an old stereo.
Only got the religious channels but it worked.............

Don't spend to much cause since you can't go rooftop you may not get all the channels anyway depending on how far away you are.............

Have Dish too but get my locals on antenna. Spent about 12 bucks at Walmart for mine..............and I am 25-35 miles form signal source...............

Jetmeck
04-16-2012, 11:40 AM
Yep, any old antenna will pick up some things most of the time. The correct antenna type will pick up more things with better quality.

Numb nutz the tuner in the receiver or tv decide what you see..........

Rohirrim
04-16-2012, 11:45 AM
Make sure you buy the *correct* type of antenna!!!

Different antennas are tuned for different frequencies. If you buy a fancy pants antenna that isn't tuned to the frequencies you need, you're boned.

See: http://www.hdtvantennalabs.com/tv-antenna-type.php

Speaking of which, I hate Comcast and I want to get out from underneath them but still get the football games and high speed internet. You seem to know about this stuff. Can you recommend the best way to go? I've got a Panasonic 50" plasma 1080P and another giganto 36" Sony in the basement. I would really appreciate the advice.

Fedaykin
04-16-2012, 11:48 AM
Numb nutz the tuner in the receiver or tv decide what you see..........

Wow you are really an idiot. The tuner can't tune a channel well or at all if the antenna isn't picking up that frequency well (or at all).

If your channel you want is broadcast at a frequency your antenna is ****ty at picking up (meaning it isn't sensitive enough at the power that signal is reaching the antenna) frequencies in that band then there's not a damn thing your tuner can do to make it better.

Fedaykin
04-16-2012, 11:51 AM
Once I used an old Y shaped FM antenna from an old stereo.
Only got the religious channels but it worked.............


Wow you're an idiot. You don't understand that the reason you only got the religious channel was because the antenna you were using wasn't the correct type ( i.e. it wasn't sensitive enough to the other frequencies/amplitudes that TV channels are on to pick them up)?

Is your skull really that impenetrable?

ColoradoDarin
04-16-2012, 12:10 PM
http://www.antennaweb.org

Fedaykin
04-16-2012, 12:10 PM
Speaking of which, I hate Comcast and I want to get out from underneath them but still get the football games and high speed internet. You seem to know about this stuff. Can you recommend the best way to go? I've got a Panasonic 50" plasma 1080P and another giganto 36" Sony in the basement. I would really appreciate the advice.

You mean you want to go over the air only for TV? What games do you want? What expectations do you have of your internet?

mkporter
04-16-2012, 12:22 PM
Jet, you are out of your depth here man. Antenna's are, in fact, specifically designed for particular frequency ranges, direction profiles, and gains. There are antennas which are much better at receiving the OTA broadcast signals then your rabbit ears are. There is a lot of garbage out there, however, so you are right to be skeptical of wild claims.

Most digital broadcasts are transmitted in the UHF band, so you want to get an antenna which is designed for this band. To see where the transmitters near you are, and what frequency bands they transmit on, check out this website:
http://www.antennapoint.com

Kaylore- Does your antenna have to be inside the living area of your apartment, or do you get access to the roof, attic, or a balcony?

Rohirrim
04-16-2012, 12:23 PM
You mean you want to go over the air only for TV? What games do you want? What expectations do you have of your internet?

Yep. I'm pretty sure we can get any movies and many shows we like over the internet. Right now I believe we're getting 20mp/s so I'd like to keep at least that much, if not more. We also have a landline (phone) in the bundle, but I can do without that. Pretty much what hangs me up is making sure I get all the games I want to watch. Local channels would be nice to have as well. I just hate Comcast and want to sever relations with them, but in Morrison, there seem to be no options.

The hang up with internet speed is, if you are going to download movies over the net, you want all the speed you can get. Right?

Kaylore
04-16-2012, 12:25 PM
Jet, you are out of your depth here man. Antenna's are, in fact, specifically designed for particular frequency ranges, direction profiles, and gains. There are antennas which are much better at receiving the OTA broadcast signals then your rabbit ears are. There is a lot of garbage out there, however, so you are right to be skeptical of wild claims.

Most digital broadcasts are transmitted in the UHF band, so you want to get an antenna which is designed for this band. To see where the transmitters near you are, and what frequency bands they transmit on, check out this website:
http://www.antennapoint.com

Kaylore- Does your antenna have to be inside the living area of your apartment, or do you get access to the roof, attic, or a balcony?

I have Balcony access and can mount on the railing if need be. I'd rather just put it on a tripod since we never use our balcony.

jhns
04-16-2012, 12:27 PM
People still use antennas? Do you use a horse as your main transportation and talk on your rotary phone?

mkporter
04-16-2012, 12:30 PM
I have Balcony access and can mount on the railing if need be. I'd rather just put it on a tripod since we never use our balcony.

Whereabouts in Denver do you live? Where you are in relation to the transmitting towers you are interested in will determine the type of antenna that is best suited for you.

Kaylore
04-16-2012, 12:41 PM
Whereabouts in Denver do you live? Where you are in relation to the transmitting towers you are interested in will determine the type of antenna that is best suited for you.

North Parker.

cmhargrove
04-16-2012, 12:46 PM
I currently use a big 12' antenna I got from Radio Shack a few years back and it gets everything, even when satellite and cable go out.

Before that, I used the Zenith ZHDTV1. For an indoor $35.00 antenna, it absolutely rocked! I gave it away when I upgraded, or else i'd send it your way. There have been other copies of the same "triangular" design by Philips, but I don't know if they were ever as good. Maybe you can find one on ebay?

Also, I second the recommendation for antennaweb.org. That definitely helps you tune in any signal properly.

mkporter
04-16-2012, 12:52 PM
North Parker.

Can you see to the west from your balcony?

Kaylore
04-16-2012, 12:53 PM
Can you see to the west from your balcony?

Nope.

Kaylore
04-16-2012, 12:55 PM
I currently use a big 12' antenna I got from Radio Shack a few years back and it gets everything, even when satellite and cable go out.

Before that, I used the Zenith ZHDTV1. For an indoor $35.00 antenna, it absolutely rocked! I gave it away when I upgraded, or else i'd send it your way. There have been other copies of the same "triangular" design by Philips, but I don't know if they were ever as good. Maybe you can find one on ebay?

Also, I second the recommendation for antennaweb.org. That definitely helps you tune in any signal properly.

I would like to get it up in the next few days and shipping would mean probably a week at least. I saw some at Radio Shack but wanted to check here if anyone has bought one locally. I didn't even think Walmart had any.

DomCasual
04-16-2012, 12:56 PM
no............just no. How the hell do you tune an antenna ?

Is that like how you tuna fish ? Just wondering ?

I like what you did there.

BroncoBeavis
04-16-2012, 12:59 PM
I would like to get it up in the next few days and shipping would mean probably a week at least. I saw some at Radio Shack but wanted to check here if anyone has bought one locally. I didn't even think Walmart had any.

Sounds like it's time for an Amazon Prime free trial to me. :)

DomCasual
04-16-2012, 01:01 PM
Sounds like it's time for an Amazon Prime free trial to me. :)

Amazon Prime is the best - SO worth it, IMO!

BroncoBeavis
04-16-2012, 01:02 PM
Amazon Prime is the best - SO worth it, IMO!

Seconded.

Fedaykin
04-16-2012, 01:08 PM
Yep. I'm pretty sure we can get any movies and many shows we like over the internet. Right now I believe we're getting 20mp/s so I'd like to keep at least that much, if not more. We also have a landline (phone) in the bundle, but I can do without that. Pretty much what hangs me up is making sure I get all the games I want to watch. Local channels would be nice to have as well. I just hate Comcast and want to sever relations with them, but in Morrison, there seem to be no options.

The hang up with internet speed is, if you are going to download movies over the net, you want all the speed you can get. Right?

In rural CO you won't find faster internet access than through a cable provider. You can check with century link, though DSL typically doesn't go above 5-8Mbps. That's enough for things like Hulu and Netflix, but for better quality streaming content (Vudu, Amazon, etc.) it wouldn't be sufficient. For downloadable content (iTunes) it would be OK if you had some patience.

Hopefully Verizon get FiOS into the Denver area soon. They could at least provide some competition to Comcast.

The two excellent sites (particularly antennapoint) posted by a couple others here will tell you if you'll be able to get OTA reception of the channels you want. Put in your location and it gives you a list of transmitters and the channels they broadcast. In Morrison it's likely you'd have decent reception of most transmitters in the Denver area (especially if you live on the hill), though you'd be pretty far from some of them.

You could then drop the TV portion of Comcast.

Also: don't use comcast or century link VOIP services, they gouge the crap out of you! If all you want is a basic land line, there are decent VOIP providers that can give you feature rich (caller ID, free long distance, etc.) lines for < $10/mo. You can get very basic service for $5/mo. If you're interested, I'll dig up some more info for you later tonight.

BroncoBeavis
04-16-2012, 01:10 PM
In rural CO you won't find faster internet access than through a cable provider. You can check with century link, though DSL typically doesn't go above 5-8Mbps. That's enough for things like Hulu and Netflix, but for better quality streaming content (Vudu, Amazon, etc.) it wouldn't be sufficient. For downloadable content (iTunes) it would be OK if you had some patience.

Hopefully Verizon get FiOS into the Denver area soon. They could at least provide some competition to Comcast.

The two excellent sites (particularly antennapoint) posted by a couple others here will tell you if you'll be able to get OTA reception of the channels you want. Put in your location and it gives you a list of transmitters and the channels they broadcast. In Morrison it's likely you'd have decent reception of most transmitters in the Denver area (especially if you live on the hill), though you'd be pretty far from some of them.

You could then drop the TV portion of Comcast.

Also: don't use comcast or century link VOIP services, they gouge the crap out of you! If all you want is a basic land line, there are decent VOIP providers that can give you feature rich (caller ID, free long distance, etc.) lines for < $10/mo. You can get very basic service for $5/mo. If you're interested, I'll dig up some more info for you later tonight.

I think 12 is pretty widespread on Centurylink now. Which is good enough for me.

Jetmeck
04-16-2012, 01:14 PM
Jet, you are out of your depth here man. Antenna's are, in fact, specifically designed for particular frequency ranges, direction profiles, and gains. There are antennas which are much better at receiving the OTA broadcast signals then your rabbit ears are. There is a lot of garbage out there, however, so you are right to be skeptical of wild claims.

Most digital broadcasts are transmitted in the UHF band, so you want to get an antenna which is designed for this band. To see where the transmitters near you are, and what frequency bands they transmit on, check out this website:
http://www.antennapoint.com

Kaylore- Does your antenna have to be inside the living area of your apartment, or do you get access to the roof, attic, or a balcony?


OK go right out and buy a so called HD antenna. sit in the exact spot as your regular whatever antenna. Reception is identical.

I have been there.........many times. The frequency has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

Rabbit ears will pick FM radio and vice versa.......size and shape and location and strength of signal is what matters..........

You are completely wrong.


Special HD antenna my ass..............

BroncoBeavis
04-16-2012, 01:19 PM
OK go right out and buy a so called HD antenna. sit in the exact spot as your regular whatever antenna. Reception is identical.

I have been there.........many times. The frequency has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

Rabbit ears will pick FM radio and vice versa.......size and shape and location and strength of signal is what matters..........

You are completely wrong.

Wow, an HD antenna flame war. And people said Teebs was tearing this board apart. :)

Jetmeck
04-16-2012, 01:20 PM
Wow you're an idiot. You don't understand that the reason you only got the religious channel was because the antenna you were using wasn't the correct type ( i.e. it wasn't sensitive enough to the other frequencies/amplitudes that TV channels are on to pick them up)?

Is your skull really that impenetrable?

**** OFF clueless. The religious channels was a joke.

Any antenna put in the right location will pick up tv....HD channels if the signal is strong enough.

Your full of chit.....go tune your antenna.

Fedaykin
04-16-2012, 01:26 PM
**** OFF clueless. The religious channels was a joke.

Any antenna put in the right location will pick up tv....HD channels if the signal is strong enough.

Your full of chit.....go tune your antenna.

Hilarious!

Pretty much any antenna will pick up any broadcast if you're 2 ft from a 1000W transmitter. It's picking up that broadcast when the signal is weaker that's the key here bub.

And again, it has nothing to do with the content of that signal like you seem to think we are saying.

Do you even understand the difference between UHF and VHF? Do you even know what those acronyms stand for?

Jetmeck
04-16-2012, 01:30 PM
Enough with this.

Rabbit ears to digital convertor box to tv..........25-35 mile out.

Slightly newer 12 dollar Walmart so called HD antenna cause thats all they had connected to newer tv with built in tuner same 25-35 miles...........

Reception identical with same number of channels................

Some of you must be 14.......you would are argue black was white.

No special antenna required. Solid signal and good location like not in a basement. Days of UHF/VHF are long gone................

Jetmeck
04-16-2012, 01:35 PM
Hilarious!

Pretty much any antenna will pick up any broadcast if you're 2 ft from a 1000W transmitter. It's picking up that broadcast when the signal is weaker that's the key here bub.

And again, it has nothing to do with the content of that signal like you seem to think we are saying.

Do you even understand the difference between UHF and VHF? Do you even know what those acronyms stand for?

very high frequency and ultra high frequency.

never said a thing about content. try a so called hd antenna or a powered one and see what you get ?

Your first sentence ended this debate as that is what I have been saying.............strength of signal is key.

BTW bub there are no special antennas made out of some special alloy as you want to present. Strength of signal and location of antenna is it..........and your still an idiot.....

baja
04-16-2012, 01:37 PM
Amazon Prime is the best - SO worth it, IMO!

Yup pays for it self very quickly.

lonestar
04-16-2012, 01:41 PM
After our recent move, our Dish cannot get local channels. The guy was able to put in an OTA modulator so I can use my DVR for OTA channels and get them in 1080p - something neither satelite nor Cable can do.

The problem is the antenna I had wasn't strong enough for all the channels (but apparently strong enough for a crap load of Spanish ones.) Does anyone in the Denver-Metro area no where to buy a good Antenna that is strong enough to pick up all the locals? We live in an apartment so something that can be mounted on a tripod that isn't incredibly massive would be preferable.
dish or direct TV..

there should be no valid reason I know of with Direct TV not being able to get local channels as they are beamed down..

not sure about dish network..

As for antennas I've always had great luck with Radio shack.. if it does not work you take it back.. But again never had any issues..

mkporter
04-16-2012, 02:00 PM
OK go right out and buy a so called HD antenna. sit in the exact spot as your regular whatever antenna. Reception is identical.

I have been there.........many times. The frequency has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

Rabbit ears will pick FM radio and vice versa.......size and shape and location and strength of signal is what matters..........

You are completely wrong.


Special HD antenna my ass..............

Size and shape of an antenna dictate which frequencies are best received, and how well they are received (i.e. antenna gain). Your rabbit ears are omnidirectional antennas, which mean that the receive equally well from all directions, but are fairly low gain. Any old piece of wire will pick up TV and radio signals as well. If you are close to the transmitting antennas, and have a good line of sight, you'll be fine with whatever you use.

There are many other kinds of antennas which are better if you need more gain (because the transmitters are farther away), and you will get more gain if you can use a directional antenna that is focused towards a specific direction. (A satellite dish is a perfect example of a highly directional, high gain antenna. You can't pick up DirecTV with rabbit ears).

The physics of antennas is well understood and researched. Just because you've been burned buying garbage antennas with misleading reception claims does not mean that rabbit ears are as good as anything else on the market.

Rohirrim
04-16-2012, 02:18 PM
In rural CO you won't find faster internet access than through a cable provider. You can check with century link, though DSL typically doesn't go above 5-8Mbps. That's enough for things like Hulu and Netflix, but for better quality streaming content (Vudu, Amazon, etc.) it wouldn't be sufficient. For downloadable content (iTunes) it would be OK if you had some patience.

Hopefully Verizon get FiOS into the Denver area soon. They could at least provide some competition to Comcast.

The two excellent sites (particularly antennapoint) posted by a couple others here will tell you if you'll be able to get OTA reception of the channels you want. Put in your location and it gives you a list of transmitters and the channels they broadcast. In Morrison it's likely you'd have decent reception of most transmitters in the Denver area (especially if you live on the hill), though you'd be pretty far from some of them.

You could then drop the TV portion of Comcast.

Also: don't use comcast or century link VOIP services, they gouge the crap out of you! If all you want is a basic land line, there are decent VOIP providers that can give you feature rich (caller ID, free long distance, etc.) lines for < $10/mo. You can get very basic service for $5/mo. If you're interested, I'll dig up some more info for you later tonight.

Thanks. I'm a complete dope when it comes to this stuff. What's FiOS? Is the antenna discussion simply referring to local broadcast stuff? The landline stuff would be great. Thanks much.

mkporter
04-16-2012, 02:20 PM
Nope.

Here is the location of the transmitters relative to you:
30680

Here is a listing of the stations that are all transmitting from pretty much the same place to the west:
30681

You will have the best luck with a directional, VHF/UHF antenna pointed to the west. I'm not sure that Radio Shack/Walmart will have the best solution. They will mostly have amplified, omnidirectional antennas. These might be good enough, but if they aren't you can return them and buy something else.

I have something like this antenna:
http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direct-DB2-Directional-Antenna/dp/B000EHUE7I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334606739&sr=8-1

It works pretty well, but it needs to be outside or hidden. I got no reception in my area on any channels with rabbit ears, and with this antenna, I could pick up stations 60 miles away when there weren't obstructions.

Something like this at Walmart might work, it is directional, and Terk is a decent brand:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Terk-Passive-HDTV-UHF-VHF-Indoor-Antenna/11018934

Jekyll15Hyde
04-16-2012, 02:25 PM
BS dude you are believing all the hype. Rabbit ears will pull in HD channels or a coat hanger will to...............I have done it........be gone.......................Hilarious!

You are only sort of right. Antennas can be designed for better reception in a given range. Rabbit ears are more for the VHF range. Hoop style antennas are for UHF range (other shapes exist too). As general rule, the more elements an antenna has, the better the reception. For difficult to receive signals, it's best to have separate UHF and VHF antennas, so there's no interference crossing between the two signal bands.

That said, any antenna will pick up something across the board. If you are close to the source, even the most meager antenna will cover just about everything. When you are far away, all of this stuff becomes more important.

I think more of where you are going is when you go into a store and see something marketed as an "HDTV" antenna. That is complete BS since the frequency range hasn't changed from analog to digital. Nothing about an antenna makes it HDTV capable or not.

(edit: now I see from more of your posts that you are specifically talking about HDTV antennas. So we are on the same page.)

cmhargrove
04-16-2012, 02:29 PM
I would like to get it up in the next few days and shipping would mean probably a week at least. I saw some at Radio Shack but wanted to check here if anyone has bought one locally. I didn't even think Walmart had any.

Here in Tulsa, I would send you to Sears. They sell the Philips line, and a few others. Do they have a Sears in your town?

Jekyll15Hyde
04-16-2012, 02:30 PM
Here is the location of the transmitters relative to you:
30680

Here is a listing of the stations that are all transmitting from pretty much the same place to the west:
30681

You will have the best luck with a directional, VHF/UHF antenna pointed to the west. I'm not sure that Radio Shack/Walmart will have the best solution. They will mostly have amplified, omnidirectional antennas. These might be good enough, but if they aren't you can return them and buy something else.

I have something like this antenna:
http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direct-DB2-Directional-Antenna/dp/B000EHUE7I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334606739&sr=8-1

It works pretty well, but it needs to be outside or hidden. I got no reception in my area on any channels with rabbit ears, and with this antenna, I could pick up stations 60 miles away when there weren't obstructions.

Something like this at Walmart might work, it is directional, and Terk is a decent brand:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Terk-Passive-HDTV-UHF-VHF-Indoor-Antenna/11018934

rep... excellent work. Just went through a similar deal with my grandfather in TX

Fedaykin
04-16-2012, 02:53 PM
very high frequency and ultra high frequency.

never said a thing about content. try a so called hd antenna or a powered one and see what you get ?

Your first sentence ended this debate as that is what I have been saying.............strength of signal is key.

BTW bub there are no special antennas made out of some special alloy as you want to present. Strength of signal and location of antenna is it..........and your still an idiot.....

LMAO. I know the following is way above your head, but what the hell, it's a slow day:

Antenna Basics 101:

The most important property of an antenna is its length relative to the wavelength of the frequency you want to receive. The optimal length is inversely proportional to the frequency of the signal (which corresponds to a wavelength). Compared to the wavelength, the optimal (or rather the best bang/length buck) length is 1/2 or 1/4 the wavelength.

To see a chart of frequencies and wavelengths, go here: http://www.hottconsultants.com/techtips/freq-wavelength.html

So, why is 1/2 or 1/4 the optimal length? Because those two lengths allow the radio signal to general constructive interference in the antenna. That is, the energy of each wave is additive.

With the wrong length of antenna, you are likely to create destructive interference, which reduces the signal gain.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interference_%28wave_propagation%29

for more information on interference in wave propagation.

In simple terms, when a radio wave hits an antenna, it induces a current in that antenna. That current will travel along the antenna and some of it will be reflected back the way it came once the current reaches the end of the antenna.

When it reaches the other end, it will reflect again (like pong!). Now, if that second reflection occurs at the same time as the next wave hits the antenna, you'll get the constructive interference because the reflected current and the new current will be traveling in the same direction and in sync. However, If the wave hits when the first reflection happens, you'll get destructive interference because the two currents will oppose each other (kind of like hooking a battery up to both ends of a wire). It's actually more complicated than that since a radio wave actually induces an AC not a DC, but the general principal is the same.

This is one of the reasons that radio systems and frequency spectra are sometimes designated as a liner measurement (i.e. HAM radio which is sometimes referred to as 2 meter radio). Why 2m? Because HAM radio uses a spectrum of 144Mhz to 148Mhz which is roughly equivalent to a 2 meter wavelength. You'll also find that pretty much all antennas made for serious HAM radios are some fraction or multiple of 1M in length. (There are other HAM spectra such as 60cm and 70cm, but the same still applies).

This is why older cell phones tended to have large external antennas, and newer cellphone have small embedded antennas. As the frequency of the carrier wave has increased, the size of the optimal antenna has decreased. It's also why antennas that are designed to receive VLF and ULF (very and ultra low) frequency signals are often miles long.


So why does this matter for television? First SD television was broadcast in VHF. VHF has a frequency range of 30Mhz to 300Mhz which ranges in wavelength from 1 to 10m and so the optimal antenna length is actually a range between 0.25m and 2.5m. Because there is a range of frequencies, the actual antenna length is a compromise. Also, not all of that spectrum is actually used for TV, but I'm too lazy to look up what fraction of that spectrum SDTV used =P

Now, HD TV is currently broadcast in the 450-800Mhz (a fraction of UHF) range. This correlates to a wavelength of 38cm to 66cm. Thus, the optimal antenna length for a modern TV antenna is between and 10cm and 17cm. And, again, since there is a range of antenna lengths that are "optimal" for that spectrum, the actual length of the antenna is a compromise.

So, if you want an antenna that receives both UHF and VHF you have to find a compromise between an antenna length of 10cm and 2.5m. This is a pretty big range of compromise, which is why it makes for a very poor antenna for both ranges.

So, I'll just get a UHF antenna since that's what TV is broadcast in these days, right? A UHF antenna is certainly going to be better than a VHF antenna or a hybrid, but there's still the problem that the UHF spectrum is still very wide. TV channels are standardized so that a particular "channel" corresponds to a particular frequency range. See a chart here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_channel_frequencies#Americas_.28most_co untries.29.2C_South_Korea.2C_Taiwan_and_the_Philip pines

This is why antenna choice is still important. If channel 14-18 is what is broadcast in your area, you want an antenna that is sized to work best for those channels/frequencies. If instead you want (or need) channels 60-69, then you want an antenna that is optimized for those channels/frequencies.

Now, it's certainly possible to buy a "single" antenna that is designed to pick up the entire spectrum roughly equally well (by including multiple aerials of differing length), but those are the expensive antennas!

So, when you buy an antenna, look at the channel range it says it's built for and make sure you buy the correct one for your area, especially when buying online! Local dealers are usually smart enough to stock antennas appropriate for the local area. You can use the color coding system or simply look at the specs. Generally a reputable antenna maker will list the channels a particular antenna is optimized for. Or, buy a fancy, huge, ugly and EXPENSIVE wide band antenna.

Now, does having an antenna optimized for channel 14-18 mean you won't receive channel 69? No. It just means it won't receive channel 69 as well as you could, all other things being equal (power of the station, distance from the station). If you are very close to the transmitter and or its very powerful, it doesn't matter. However, if you aren't (like many people), it matters a great deal.

This is why I pointed Kaylore to the people who have figured out what works best for what channels in what location. Why not buy an antenna that is optimized for what YOU want to view?

Dendave
04-16-2012, 03:06 PM
I bought an antenna from the dollar store and get all my local channels

tonngo0
04-16-2012, 03:41 PM
I have this indoor antenna, it works wonder for me that is almost 60 miles away from the antenna tower.

http://www.meritline.com/artec-uhf-vhf-hdtv-hdtv-antenna-retail---p-27918.aspx?source=fghdac

Fedaykin
04-16-2012, 04:02 PM
Thanks. I'm a complete dope when it comes to this stuff. What's FiOS? Is the antenna discussion simply referring to local broadcast stuff? The landline stuff would be great. Thanks much.

FiOS is a fiber optic network that Verizon is building up. It's a long way off in the Denver area though I think.

The antenna discussion is for local channels only. You won't be able to receive anything really but the three letter stations (CBS, etc.). Antennapoint will tell you exactly what is available OTA for you and what band (UHF or VHF) and channel they are on.

Looking at that list you're actually in luck as there are a lot of transmitters very close (2-6mi) to you so all the fancy pants antenna discussion is something you can forgo, unless you care about TELEMUNDO!

Everything except the IND channel (whatever that is) are roughly NW of you so a directional antenna pointed in that direction would be best but you're so close it doesn't matter. A cheap indoor antenna is all you really need.

You're a lot more lucky than I am, most of my stations are 35mi+ away and in all directions, plus I only have 4 channels available to your 14.

I'll look up the VOIP stuff later.

Jetmeck
04-16-2012, 07:33 PM
"SPECIAL" antenna for you numb nutz.....................

it gets HD real good..............

mkporter
04-16-2012, 11:47 PM
"SPECIAL" antenna for you numb nutz.....................

it gets HD real good..............

Hey, cool hat, thanks! I bought you a book:

30689

Kaylore
04-17-2012, 11:45 AM
Thanks guys. I had no idea this would be as controversial as it was.

I went with this
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0024R4B5C/ref=oh_o03_s01_i00_details

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31S-TpsC7wL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

And am "trying out" Amazon prime. :~ohyah!: Appreciate all the advice. I'll keep you posted.

mkporter
04-17-2012, 12:39 PM
Thanks guys. I had no idea this would be as controversial as it was.

I went with this
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0024R4B5C/ref=oh_o03_s01_i00_details

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31S-TpsC7wL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

And am "trying out" Amazon prime. :~ohyah!: Appreciate all the advice. I'll keep you posted.

Looks good, let us know how it works. This stuff is not nearly as controversial as this thread makes it seem, but that's the Omane! Also, beware of Amazon prime, it is highly addictive.

Fedaykin
04-17-2012, 12:56 PM
Thanks guys. I had no idea this would be as controversial as it was.

I went with this
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0024R4B5C/ref=oh_o03_s01_i00_details

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31S-TpsC7wL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

And am "trying out" Amazon prime. :~ohyah!: Appreciate all the advice. I'll keep you posted.


Note the several antenna on this array of varying lengths and shape.

:yayaya:

Fedaykin
04-17-2012, 01:00 PM
BTW: Sorry for the thread nonsense Kaylore: as always xkcd says it all:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

lonestar
04-17-2012, 01:37 PM
http://www.heartlandamerica.com/browse/item.asp?PIN=91643&GUID=D915A439-A7E3-4654-AC33-4FF932EFB7A6

Heartland America Price
$24.99

Watch your local channels in HD with no fees and no hassles with this remote controlled rotating HD antenna!
This outdoor rotating antenna delivers amazing picture quality and has a convenient remote to help you effortlessly position it to get the best possible reception! This rotating outdoor antenna mounts in just minutes on your roof and its advanced design offers incredible 20-28 dB gain so you can enjoy clear images from even distant or weak stations. Also has 45-860 MHz operation frequency and 75 ohms output impedance. It's crafted from weather-resistant ABS and aluminum for years of trouble-free use and mounts in just minutes. Also features two directors and two dipoles for optimal reception, VHF/UHF full channel with booster, low noise microwave amplifier tube for enhanced resolution, 360 degree rotation and more. Receives channels 2-69. Two 'AAA' batteries not included.

BroncoBuff
04-20-2012, 08:24 PM
That antenna looks good, inexpensive, but I recall the rotational placement is key, a magnetic thing Drek was explaining couple years back. Subtle changes in rotational-placement can greatly open up reception.

We have a Roku Hi-Def box, Hulu-Plus and Amazon Prime. Hulu is a bear to navigate at first, but once you figure it out, it's incredible. Massive programming stores, all the best shows. Netflix sucks of course.

Any more ideas on accessing live news and sports channels? Roku's NBC and Fox news channels offer quick turnaround replays, e.g. Rachel Maddow is available at midnight that night, much of Fox is even live. But I need ESPN, CNN, all the rest ... any more ideas?

BroncoBuff
04-20-2012, 08:28 PM
beware of Amazon prime, it is highly addictive.

It's kinda frustrating to me ... every time I look for something I seem to gravitate to the rare title that even Prime members have to pay for. Other night I surfed thru 25-30 free movies, finally saw McNamara's Fog of War. Sat back and clicked ... No! $3.99 even for Prime, rrrrggh,

mattob14
04-20-2012, 09:13 PM
I've been thinking of doing the same thing, but I'm worried about the distance. I'm in Greeley, so all the transmitters are almost exactly 50 miles away. I can go indoor or outdoor, and there are no obstructions to the SW. Has anyone had any luck getting a strong signal from this range?

Kaylore
04-20-2012, 10:23 PM
So it came in and its set up. I was getting all the channels incredibly clearly and but I keep getting the occasional pixeling and ONLY for NBC. I mean I wasn't getting them at all before and now it's mostly clear with occasional issues. Do they have the weakest transformer? I must not be pointed right or something...

maven
04-21-2012, 10:32 AM
So it came in and its set up. I was getting all the channels incredibly clearly and but I keep getting the occasional pixeling and ONLY for NBC. I mean I wasn't getting them at all before and now it's mostly clear with occasional issues. Do they have the weakest transformer? I must not be pointed right or something...

Continue to adjust the antenna. Try different locations and directions on your balcony and rescan on your HDTV until it works perfectly.

And yes it could be NBC's problem.

maven
04-21-2012, 10:38 AM
To add, it could also be the antenna you had picked out (I wouldn't have bought that one).

Kaylore
04-21-2012, 10:50 AM
Continue to adjust the antenna. Try different locations and directions on your balcony and rescan on your HDTV until it works perfectly.

And yes it could be NBC's problem.

I moved it sideways about four feet and angled it slightly. I get a 85 signal from most stations now. It is really nice to have 1080i. The antenna isn't pointed at the stations but where it is pointed gets the best signal. Sometimes its counter-intuitive.