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Bronco Rob
04-16-2012, 05:48 AM
Broncos move back, load up on picks


Apr 26 11:23 PM ET By Bill Williamson | ESPN.com



The Denver Broncos moved out of the first round Thursday night as they twice traded down.

The Broncos know have six picks in the next three rounds. I think we will see Denver try to get a defensive tackle, running back and quarterback on Friday. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Broncos make more trades in the second or third rounds.

I think Denver decided to move down after all the top defensive tackles were taken. It's difficult to argue with that tact.

Among the players Denver could target at No. 36, their top pick Friday are Michigan State defensive tackle Jerel Worthy, Connecticut defensive tackle Kendall Reyes, Georgia Tech receiver Stephen Hill, Cincinnati defensive tackle Derek Wolfe and Nebraska linebacker Lavonte David..

The Broncos probably were not thrilled to see running backs Doug Martin and David Wilson go in the final two picks of the first round. Among the running backs Denver could look in the second round at include Oregon’s LaMichael James and Miami’s Lamar Miller.

Below is Denver’s new draft order after its movement Thursday night:

Round Overall (Rd.#) How Acquired

Second 36 (4) From Tampa Bay

Second 57 (25) Own Pick

Third 87 (25) Own Pick

Fourth 101 (6) From Tampa Bay

Fourth 108 (13) From N.Y. Jets

Fourth 120 (25) Own Pick

Fifth 137 (2) From St. Louis

Sixth 188 (18) From N.Y. Jets

Trades:

Broncos get: 1st-round pick (No. 31)

4th-round pick (No. 126)

Patriots get: 1st-round pick (No. 25)

Broncos get: 2nd-round pick (No. 36)

4th-round pick (No. 101)

Bucs get: 1st-round pick (No. 31)

4th-round pick (No. 126)



http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/43261/broncos-move-back-load-up-on-picks

TonyR
04-16-2012, 06:06 AM
If we could steal him the way we stole Bunkley I'd be all for it. But I don't see them giving Samuel away in the same fashion. I think it will take a 2nd round pick at the very least and I don't know that I want the Broncos to give that much up.

Lestat
04-16-2012, 06:13 AM
they won't get a 2nd for him, his contract is too bloated. a 3rd or maybe a 3rd + a conditional pick that turns into a future 3rd or 4th.

cmhargrove
04-16-2012, 06:17 AM
If we could trade a draft pick for a great, veteran DT, i'd be happy. Not Samuel.

We are in a prime position to draft a young corner for this team. If we really want one, let's get one, but let's keep it under the age of 30.

Lestat
04-16-2012, 06:21 AM
that and Samuel isn't exactly a great overall CB. he takes a ton of risks and gives up big plays. he gets picks but the plays he gives up almost negates the turnovers he produces.

TonyR
04-16-2012, 06:25 AM
that and Samuel isn't exactly a great overall CB. he takes a ton of risks and gives up big plays. he gets picks but the plays he gives up almost negates the turnovers he produces.

That and he doesn't tackle very well.

Lestat
04-16-2012, 06:28 AM
very well? i haven't seen a CB so allergic to tackling since Deion. but Deion was a mother effing beast in coverage so he didn't have to tackle.
That and he doesn't tackle very well.

peacepipe
04-16-2012, 06:29 AM
That and he doesn't tackle very well.

I wouldn't want samuel cause of his contract,but outside of champ,how many CBs out there do tackle well.

oubronco
04-16-2012, 06:37 AM
Harris tackles pretty damn good

WolfpackGuy
04-16-2012, 06:59 AM
Samuel's not a shutdown guy.

He gambles a lot, can't tackle (legally), and many of his INT's are from errant throws due to pressure.

Heyneck
04-16-2012, 07:03 AM
Old!!! Pass!!! We need young blood at CB. No more stop gaps!!! Finding someone to step up to Champs' place should be a priority in the next 2 seasons.

Lestat
04-16-2012, 07:11 AM
I wouldn't want samuel cause of his contract,but outside of champ,how many CBs out there do tackle well.

Revis,Taylor,Hall,the McCourty brothers,Tillman,Jennings,Marshall,Barber,Wright,W oodson,Harris(our nickel back),Greer,Peterson,Webb,Finnegan and others.
it's not a foreign concept, some mothers just don't think it's their job.

Bronco Rob
04-16-2012, 09:58 AM
Philadelphia Eagles CB Asante Samuel says he wants to remain on the team. The Eagles have cornerbacks Nnamdi Asomugha and Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie on the roster as well, and Samuel's age (31) and 2012 cap number ($10.5 million) make him the most logical of those three to trade if they want to alleviate overcrowding in their secondary.

Smiling Assassin27
04-16-2012, 09:59 AM
2k in Del Rio's system.

extralife
04-16-2012, 10:00 AM
Samuel's not a shutdown guy.

He gambles a lot, can't tackle (legally), and many of his INT's are from errant throws due to pressure.

like the kind of pressure generated from Von Doom?

turnovers are a big deal for a team with Manning at QB. we haven't produced a significant amount of them since 05.

campocorto
04-16-2012, 10:02 AM
Despite his roots in Foxboro, he meets my high standards for a FN. Bring the boy in.

http://www.obsessedwithsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/asante_samuel.jpg

bendog
04-16-2012, 10:08 AM
Damn, I thought Bowlen fired the midget.

Punisher
04-16-2012, 10:38 AM
he can't tackle worth dick

Punisher
04-16-2012, 10:59 AM
he can't tackle worth dick

I live in Philly so i watch a fair amount of Eagle games. The guy can't tackle and he trys to jump every route possible. Most of my friends are eagle fans they pray they can get a value trade for this guy.

FireFly
04-16-2012, 06:18 PM
I'd send them a 4th... maybe a 3rd.

You know what you're getting with him. He's not elite, but the chances of our 4th round pick this year being BETTER than him? Slim IMO.

BMarsh615
04-18-2012, 06:39 AM
Adam Schefter ‏ <s>@</s>AdamSchefter (https://twitter.com/#%21/AdamSchefter)

Eagles have been shopping CB Asante Samuel in recent days, according to NFL sources around league. Eagles looking to make trade before draft

BMarsh615
04-18-2012, 06:39 AM
ProFootballFocus.com ‏ <s>@</s>ProFootbalFocus (https://twitter.com/#%21/ProFootbalFocus)

Asante Samuel may be a better CB than people realize. Was thrown at deep (20+) 12 times last year, allowed 1 catch.

DarkHorse
04-18-2012, 07:46 AM
He's horrible - haven't you been reading the 'mane?

Mediator12
04-18-2012, 08:11 AM
Samuel is not horrible, and he is nowhere near as good as PFF has him rated. He is a very good Zone CB, and not a very good man CB. He struggles in systems that do not play to his strengths and is an average run support CB.

What he does do, is read routes and jump throws to get TO's. And, he is one of the best in the league at doing that if he has safety help. The problem is when he does not have safety help over the top, he still jumps routes and blows coverages for the whole defense. Part of what PFF misses is they can not fault him when he blows coverages, just if they see him cover. That is why their grade is inflated. Ask any DC how much they would want a guy that gambles like that and exposes the team to big plays? The answer is not as much as the price someone with zone secondary issues will pay.

He is name player because of the TO's, and he has been paid plenty to be that guy. However, he is not good for scheme integrity or teaching younger players how to play CB in the NFL. Also, PHI played much more Zone last year because of Samuel and the idiot DC who had 2 excellent man CB's in Asomugha and Cromartie. Samuel greatly benefited from that, while exposing the rest of the secondary to his antics.

If this was a pure zone team, DEN would make a run at him. However, DEN plays a good amount of man and JDR prefers that too on the back end. Samuel is not a good fit for that.

TheReverend
04-18-2012, 08:34 AM
Samuel is not horrible, and he is nowhere near as good as PFF has him rated. He is a very good Zone CB, and not a very good man CB. He struggles in systems that do not play to his strengths and is an average run support CB.

What he does do, is read routes and jump throws to get TO's. And, he is one of the best in the league at doing that if he has safety help. The problem is when he does not have safety help over the top, he still jumps routes and blows coverages for the whole defense. Part of what PFF misses is they can not fault him when he blows coverages, just if they see him cover. That is why their grade is inflated. Ask any DC how much they would want a guy that gambles like that and exposes the team to big plays? The answer is not as much as the price someone with zone secondary issues will pay.

He is name player because of the TO's, and he has been paid plenty to be that guy. However, he is not good for scheme integrity or teaching younger players how to play CB in the NFL. Also, PHI played much more Zone last year because of Samuel and the idiot DC who had 2 excellent man CB's in Asomugha and Cromartie. Samuel greatly benefited from that, while exposing the rest of the secondary to his antics.

If this was a pure zone team, DEN would make a run at him. However, DEN plays a good amount of man and JDR prefers that too on the back end. Samuel is not a good fit for that.

I always love the different philosophies between a secondary coach and a DC. Especially when a secondary coach is promoted to DC and completely changes in the blink of an eye.

The DC will coach to stop the play
The secondary coach will coach to MAKE the play

The DC will coach to play it safer
The secondary coach will coach to "If you're gonna make a mistake, make a BIG mistake"

Heyneck
04-18-2012, 08:42 AM
very well? i haven't seen a CB so allergic to tackling since Deion. but Deion was a mother effing beast in coverage so he didn't have to tackle.

Cromartie is way more allergic to tackling... but yeah... I want nothing of Samuel.

TheReverend
04-18-2012, 08:58 AM
Btw, re: Asante potentially in Denver... Would never work:

Too much man coverage in Denver last year.

...and that was BEFORE JDR even signed on (he runs even heavier man Ds)

Gcver2ver3
04-18-2012, 09:05 AM
I'd give no more than a 5th...

We'd be doing the eagles a favor taking him, his attitude, and his contract off their hands...

And i reckon most nfl teams know this...

But he's still a good player, so a 5th would be good value... but nothing more...

halfback
04-18-2012, 09:15 AM
I'd rather trade for aquib talib

socalorado
04-18-2012, 09:23 AM
No, no and NO.

TonyR
04-18-2012, 09:25 AM
But he's still a good player, so a 5th would be good value... but nothing more...

I think in the right system he's worth a good bit more than that, but the Broncos' isn't the right system as Med and Rev noted.

halfback
04-18-2012, 09:40 AM
I'd rather trade for aquib talib

Scratch that....I forgot he has a trial coming up, no to him and Samuel

Gcver2ver3
04-18-2012, 09:53 AM
I think in the right system he's worth a good bit more than that, but the Broncos' isn't the right system as Med and Rev noted.

Its not about what he's worth, its about what the market is for him...

And considering his age, baggage, contract, and the fact that its clear the eagles dont want him... the market for him wont be all that high...

BroncoBen
04-18-2012, 09:56 AM
If we could steal him the way we stole Bunkley I'd be all for it. But I don't see them giving Samuel away in the same fashion. I think it will take a 2nd round pick at the very least and I don't know that I want the Broncos to give that much up.

I agree... a 2nd round pick is too much to offer in a trade. Besides I don't think the Broncos need Asante Samuel. I hate it when the Broncos trade draft picks for marginal players.

oubronco
04-18-2012, 10:11 AM
I would rather them draft Kirkpatrick

TonyR
04-18-2012, 10:15 AM
I agree... a 2nd round pick is too much to offer in a trade.

Yeah, and I made that comment without even considering that Denver plays a lot of man coverage.

CEH
04-18-2012, 10:24 AM
Forget drafting Gillmore. Odds are high he goes top 10. Might have a shot at Dre but DET and Cincy should nab him.

TheReverend
04-18-2012, 10:43 AM
Forget drafting Gillmore. Odds are high he goes top 10. Might have a shot at Dre but DET and Cincy should nab him.

Gilmore still doesn't deserve to go nearly that high.

He's the 4th best CB in the draft when push comes to shove (3rd when it comes to Denver's needs and system)

socalorado
04-18-2012, 11:02 AM
Gilmore still doesn't deserve to go nearly that high.

He's the 4th best CB in the draft when push comes to shove (3rd when it comes to Denver's needs and system)

Wrong.

1 Claiborne
2 Jenkins
3 Gilmore
4 Hosley
5 Kirken$h!tcracktastick

TheReverend
04-18-2012, 11:31 AM
Wrong.

1 Claiborne
2 Jenkins
3 Gilmore
4 Hosley
5 Kirken$h!tcracktastick

You're on drugs. Get that Hosley **** out of here.

1. Jenkins
2. Clairborne
3. Kirk
4. Gilmore
5. Fleming

And honestly I'm tempted to swap Clairborne and Kirk.

socalorado
04-18-2012, 11:36 AM
You're on drugs. Get that Hosley **** out of here.

1. Jenkins
2. Clairborne
3. Gilmore
4. Fleming
5. Hosley
5B. Heyward
6. $h!tpatrick

And honestly I'm tempted to swap Clairborne and Kirk.

:wave:

extralife
04-19-2012, 07:28 PM
Denver Post is reporting <a href="http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20438104/broncos-now-chasing-cb-asante-samuel-sources-say">that we're trying</a>

27atwater
04-19-2012, 07:40 PM
Denver Post is reporting <a href="http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20438104/broncos-now-chasing-cb-asante-samuel-sources-say">that we're trying</a>

For a 5th or 6th? Hell to the YES! I thought we'd need to give up a 3 or higher. No way we get that kind of talent in round 5 or 6.

Gcver2ver3
04-19-2012, 07:43 PM
Denver Post is reporting <a href="http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20438104/broncos-now-chasing-cb-asante-samuel-sources-say">that we're trying</a>

just as i stated... pay no more than a 5th rd pick for him...

DBroncos4life
04-19-2012, 07:51 PM
I thought he didn't fit the system?

DBroncos4life
04-19-2012, 07:57 PM
It sounds like Bailey would move inside in nickel packages again. I would like the idea of that with Samuel and Porter on the outside.

yerner
04-19-2012, 08:04 PM
that article says they don't believe they can complete a deal now, right? sounds like it aint happening. i bet they offered dj.

Bigdawg26
04-19-2012, 08:05 PM
It sounds like Bailey would move inside in nickel packages again. I would like the idea of that with Samuel and Porter on the outside.

If you think Samuel can't tackle... Just wait to you see Porter!

Gcver2ver3
04-19-2012, 08:07 PM
my guess is the player offered was knowshon...

DBroncos4life
04-19-2012, 08:09 PM
If you think Samuel can't tackle... Just wait to you see Porter!

I don't think or ever said that.

theStifmeister
04-19-2012, 08:10 PM
after all of the terrible draft picks in the last years, why would you not want a guy with nose for the ball? 45 interceptions don't like. Fools & tools

GoHAM
04-19-2012, 08:12 PM
If you think Samuel can't tackle... Just wait to you see Porter!


Right around 0:35 (http://youtu.be/jBHk9rc4hHc?t=35s)

pricejj
04-19-2012, 08:38 PM
Right around 0:35 (http://youtu.be/jBHk9rc4hHc?t=35s)

thrown like a mangy ferrel dog?? that IS mildly disturbing

Heyneck
04-19-2012, 09:53 PM
thrown like a mangy ferrel dog?? that IS mildly disturbing

Come on.. that's Mashawn "Beast" Lynch! That dude is just badass! Is Porter a great tackler? No... but he is by no means bad like Cro or Samuel. We are just to spoiled with the Champ standard.

DBroncos4life
04-19-2012, 09:57 PM
Come on.. that's Mashawn "Beast" Lynch! That dude is just badass! Is Porter a great tackler? No... but he is by no means bad like Cro or Samuel. We are just to spoiled with the Champ standard.

Yeah he killed that whole D not just Porter.

FireFly
04-20-2012, 12:43 AM
There is no way we're going to get his level of talent or production in the 5th or 6th round. Getting him for anything like that value would be a steal imo

UberBroncoMan
04-20-2012, 04:01 AM
after all of the terrible draft picks in the last years, why would you not want a guy with nose for the ball? 45 interceptions don't like. Fools & tools

Two Words for people who want to remember the last time we did something like this.

Dré...Bly...

That said, if he can stop giving up big plays, go for it.

TonyR
04-20-2012, 05:38 AM
just as i stated... pay no more than a 5th rd pick for him...

Yup, you nailed that. But it appears the Eagles aren't going to move him for that little.

TonyR
04-20-2012, 05:44 AM
And the Broncos believe that after they were torched by passing-rich Green Bay, Detroit and New England last season, having three quality cornerbacks is becoming more of a necessity in today's NFL than a luxury.

Read more: Broncos expressed interest in Eagles CB Asante Samuel - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20438104/broncos-now-chasing-cb-asante-samuel-sources-say#ixzz1saGx5tqv
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

This would leave one to believe that CB will be very much in the mix as our possible pick at #25 if we don't get something else done before the draft. At the same time you can't put the problem all on the DB's. You also need to get to the QB...

schaaf
04-20-2012, 06:24 AM
And the Broncos believe that after they were torched by passing-rich Green Bay, Detroit and New England last season, having three quality cornerbacks is becoming more of a necessity in today's NFL than a luxury.

Read more: Broncos expressed interest in Eagles CB Asante Samuel - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20438104/broncos-now-chasing-cb-asante-samuel-sources-say#ixzz1saGx5tqv
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

This would leave one to believe that CB will be very much in the mix as our possible pick at #25 if we don't get something else done before the draft. At the same time you can't put the problem all on the DB's. You also need to get to the QB...

It's well documented that EFX Loves Kirpatrick, if he fell to about 20 I could see them moving up for hin

BroncoFanatic
04-20-2012, 06:32 AM
I live in Philly so i watch a fair amount of Eagle games. The guy can't tackle and he trys to jump every route possible. Most of my friends are eagle fans they pray they can get a value trade for this guy.

Same here, and I agree with your assessment.

BroncoBen
04-20-2012, 07:19 AM
Its not about what he's worth, its about what the market is for him...

And considering his age, baggage, contract, and the fact that its clear the eagles dont want him... the market for him wont be all that high...

Well I heard this morning on the radio that wherever Samuele's go he will have to re-do his contract, he is due something like $10mil this season and $11mil the next.

peacepipe
04-20-2012, 08:04 AM
Well I heard this morning on the radio that wherever Samuele's go he will have to re-do his contract, he is due something like $10mil this season and $11mil the next.

that's probably why samuel wants to stay with the eagles.

Beantown Bronco
04-20-2012, 08:18 AM
that's probably why samuel wants to stay with the eagles.

Except he doesn't. He's wanted out of there since the moment they signed Assmunch.

edog24
04-20-2012, 08:23 AM
Well I heard this morning on the radio that wherever Samuele's go he will have to re-do his contract, he is due something like $10mil this season and $11mil the next.

Way too expensive!

Broncojef
04-20-2012, 08:24 AM
Everyone keeps talking about drafting young talent to develop, we are in a serious SB run now. We need experience and talent not something that will be solid 3 years from now. 5th round would be a no brainer.

TonyR
04-20-2012, 08:26 AM
5th round would be a no brainer.

Agree. The chances of getting a player remotely approaching Samuel's ability in the 5th round are remote.

razorwire77
04-20-2012, 08:31 AM
For a 5th rounder, or even the Tebow 4th rounder, I think you pull the trigger. He's going to have to renegotiate that contract though.

pricejj
04-20-2012, 08:32 AM
Why didn't they just hang onto Goodman? The Xanders circus makes less sense by the minute.

TheReverend
04-20-2012, 08:32 AM
And the Broncos believe that after they were torched by passing-rich Green Bay, Detroit and New England last season, having three quality cornerbacks is becoming more of a necessity in today's NFL than a luxury.

Read more: Broncos expressed interest in Eagles CB Asante Samuel - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20438104/broncos-now-chasing-cb-asante-samuel-sources-say#ixzz1saGx5tqv
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

This would leave one to believe that CB will be very much in the mix as our possible pick at #25 if we don't get something else done before the draft. At the same time you can't put the problem all on the DB's. You also need to get to the QB...

You have a MUCH harder time getting to the QB with a couple guys running wide the **** open all day.

TheReverend
04-20-2012, 08:33 AM
Why didn't they just hang onto Goodman? The Xanders circus makes less sense by the minute.

BECAUSE HE WAS THAT ****ING BAD.

TonyR
04-20-2012, 08:34 AM
Why didn't they just hang onto Goodman?

So you're equating Goodman with Samuel?

pricejj
04-20-2012, 08:35 AM
BECAUSE HE WAS THAT ****ING BAD.

I disagree.

Question: Why not let Goodman go...AFTER an Asante trade finalized?

No matter how bad you "think" Goodman was, he's better than Chris Harris.

So you're equating Goodman with Samuel?

No.

BroncoBen
04-20-2012, 08:38 AM
Why didn't they just hang onto Goodman? The Xanders circus makes less sense by the minute.

Again a salary cap move... I believe Goodman was going to make over $4 mil for this upcoming season. Now I don't know if the Broncos tried to re-negotiate with him.

Drek
04-20-2012, 08:46 AM
I disagree.
You're alone on that. Well, other than Goodman and his mom.


No matter how bad you "think" Goodman was, he's better than Chris Harris.

At what? Surely not at preventing touchdowns.

pricejj
04-20-2012, 08:47 AM
Again a salary cap move... I believe Goodman was going to make over $4 mil for this upcoming season. Now I don't know if the Broncos tried to re-negotiate with him.

1. Yeah, he was scheduled to count $4.38M against the cap...cutting him will still cost them $2.4M.
2. They are still $26M below the cap (including rollover).
3. Samuel is going to cost more, A LOT more.
4. Goodman is better than Chris Harris, any day of the week.
5. Samuel trade is looking slim.

Xanders es idiota.


At what? Surely not at preventing touchdowns.

We had 0 safeties who were good in coverage last year. Dawkins is great at aligning and stopping the run...but no longer good in coverage. After he went out, the Safety play was Lowry-esque. You should not see a WR sprinting up the left sideline, Goodman trailing by 2 yards, and no one else on the screen.

TonyR
04-20-2012, 08:47 AM
Now I don't know if the Broncos tried to re-negotiate with him.

I bet they did, just as they did with Vickerson. The difference of course being that that Vickerson agreed.

TonyR
04-20-2012, 08:49 AM
Xanders es idiota.

Xanders isn't unilaterally making the decisions. And as far as trying to get Samuel I think they're just trying to give themselves more flexibility in the draft. If they were to get him they could remove CB from their list of urgent draft needs.

Gcver2ver3
04-20-2012, 08:50 AM
Yup, you nailed that. But it appears the Eagles aren't going to move him for that little.

then they better be prepared to have him for another season, because the market for him aint gonna be much higher than that...

pricejj
04-20-2012, 08:57 AM
Xanders isn't unilaterally making the decisions. And as far as trying to get Samuel I think they're just trying to give themselves more flexibility in the draft. If they were to get him they could remove CB from their list of urgent draft needs.

CB is a manufactured need (by cutting Goodman), based on what Xanders believes is a strong positional area of the draft.

DT is a manufactured need (by allowing Bunkley to walk). First they low-balled him, then he got sick of the haggling and went to the Saints. Bannan is a downgrade. Bunkley was one of the best run-stuffing DT's in the league last year. If they think they think they are going to find someone better in the draft? Good luck. Bunkley is a brick wall who can bench 225 lbs. 44 times. You wonder why the run defense improved last year? That would be Brodrick.

So you lose a DT and a CB...and are forced to use your 1st two picks on a DT and a CB? Killing 2 birds with 4 stones.

TonyR
04-20-2012, 08:59 AM
then they better be prepared to have him for another season, because the market for him aint gonna be much higher than that...

Last year they were reported to be seeking a 1st for him, and then later were apparently willing to take a high 2nd. So I'm thinking now they're hoping for a 3rd. The combined $ and age will probably make that difficult, but maybe they can swing a 4th?


Update: Klis just reported that the issue is Samuel taking a pay cut, NOT trade compensation!

https://twitter.com/#!/MikeKlis/status/193346196981551105

Gcver2ver3
04-20-2012, 09:02 AM
Well I heard this morning on the radio that wherever Samuele's go he will have to re-do his contract, he is due something like $10mil this season and $11mil the next.

yeah that could go along way in raising his value...

thats a big part that makes the market low for him...

depending on how flexible he is with that, he could be traded for better than a 5th if he does that...

Gcver2ver3
04-20-2012, 09:06 AM
Last year they were reported to be seeking a 1st for him, and then later were apparently willing to take a high 2nd. So I'm thinking now they're hoping for a 3rd. The combined $ and age will probably make that difficult, but maybe they can swing a 4th?


Update: Klis just reported that the issue is Samuel taking a pay cut, NOT trade compensation!

https://twitter.com/#!/MikeKlis/status/193346196981551105

Kliss update is vague, doesn't tell us what the compensation is...

but in any event, i just posted about it, but i'll reiterate, if he's willing to redo that contract then his value goes up... that obviously changes things...

but being owed 21 mil over 2yrs and at his age, a 5th round pick would have been about the most Philly could hope for...

Beantown Bronco
04-20-2012, 09:16 AM
CB is a manufactured need (by cutting Goodman), based on what Xanders believes is a strong positional area of the draft.


So you think our CB play was fine last year? And, if we had simply kept Goodman and done nothing else, we would be fine?

TonyR
04-20-2012, 09:22 AM
Kliss update is vague, doesn't tell us what the compensation is...

But it is interesting that he's implying that we agreed on trade compensation.

TheReverend
04-20-2012, 09:22 AM
Last year they were reported to be seeking a 1st for him, and then later were apparently willing to take a high 2nd. So I'm thinking now they're hoping for a 3rd. The combined $ and age will probably make that difficult, but maybe they can swing a 4th?


Update: Klis just reported that the issue is Samuel taking a pay cut, NOT trade compensation!

https://twitter.com/#!/MikeKlis/status/193346196981551105

^ Yeah heard this on the radio early this morning driving home but was too lazy to search a link and make a thread.

What we SHOULD be talking about is how this moved (in conjunction with Porter) means a shift to more zone heavy defenses. It also means a much more competent backfield in that regard.

Zones + Better players = Lots of turnovers :)

Instead we're still talking about Goodman with the one guy that clearly hasnt watched a football game.

TheReverend
04-20-2012, 09:23 AM
Kliss update is vague, doesn't tell us what the compensation is...

Should be extremely reasonable. I've heard Philly REALLY just wants out from under his contract.

bronco militia
04-20-2012, 09:24 AM
so does adams give the broncos that much improvement Safety?

someone else posted this: Samuel=Dre Bly

Gcver2ver3
04-20-2012, 09:31 AM
But it is interesting that he's implying that we agreed on trade compensation.

i certainly hope you're right...

pricejj
04-20-2012, 09:34 AM
So you think our CB play was fine last year? And, if we had simply kept Goodman and done nothing else, we would be fine?

They should have signed Porter and kept Goodman...Let Goodman go, IF you sign Samuel. CB is not a luxury we can afford in rounds 1 or 2. Not with so many holes. Safeties were much worse than the CB's last year. UT sucked last year, and the MLB kept getting exposed in the passing game. Not to mention we need another option at RB, and the interior OL was terrible.


Instead we're still talking about Goodman with the one guy that clearly hasnt watched a football game.

So you like insults huh? Coming from the guy who thinks a CB who runs a 4.51 forty (Kirkpatrick), is going to make the Defense instant Super Bowl material. Kirkpatrick is a zone guy at best.

so does adams give the broncos that much improvement at Safety?

No he doesn't, but he's better than Quenton Carter. Hopefully Bdawk comes back.

peacepipe
04-20-2012, 09:37 AM
Kirkpatrick,would be a great pick,if the idea is to move him to safety.

TheReverend
04-20-2012, 09:37 AM
So you like insults huh? Coming from the guy who thinks a CB who runs a 4.5 forty (Kirkpatrick), is going to make the Defense instant Super Bowl material. Kirkpatrick is a zone guy at best.

Dude, you really do make yourself look dumber in every post.

You're nice so I'm trying to be nice and not be one of the legions of people here mocking you for deleting threads and your football opinions, but you're not making it easy.

bronco militia
04-20-2012, 09:39 AM
if they are going to play zone, Kirkpatrick and Samuels make sense.

But they don't have any quality depth at safety yet.

pricejj
04-20-2012, 09:40 AM
Dude, you really do make yourself look dumber in every post.

You're nice so I'm trying to be nice and not be one of the legions of people here mocking you for deleting threads and your football opinions, but you're not making it easy.

Don't start no stuff won't be no stuff. BTW you WILL be changing your avatar after Janoris Jenkins falls out of the 1st round. I haven't forgotten.

TheReverend
04-20-2012, 09:41 AM
Don't start no stuff won't be no stuff. BTW you WILL be changing your avatar after Janoris Jenkins falls out of the 1st round. I haven't forgotten.

LOL

pricejj
04-20-2012, 09:43 AM
LOL

So who's it going to be? Rainman or Travis Henry?...you got about 6 more days of Bert.

TheReverend
04-20-2012, 09:48 AM
So who's it going to be? Rainman or Travis Henry?...you got about 6 more days of Bert.

You can talk after you watch the Minnesota game.

Also, get your **** together. In one post you're like Kirk will never make it past 24! Then in the next you're like "LOL TOO SLOW HE'LL SUCK IN DENVER" (Claiborne ran just as "fast", fyi).

And Jenkins is still going in the first. Way too talented for a SB fringe team with needs toward the back of the draft to ALL pass up (ie: Pitt, NE, Baltimore, NYG, etc)

Fortunately for you after he DOES go in the first, when you change your avy you can pretend you're a black guy easier.

Bmore Manning
04-20-2012, 09:56 AM
if they are going to play zone, Kirkpatrick and Samuels make sense.

But they don't have any quality depth at safety yet.

I said this in the other Asante Samuel thread, if he extends that same deal over a year or two he would excel in the Rasean Mathis zone Del Rio had him in in Jacksonville. Samuel and Porter as the 1 2 punch, then move Bailey to the FS/NCB role depending on package that Woodson is in in Green Bay!

Requiem
04-20-2012, 09:58 AM
. . . Price has finally gone off the deep end. He still thinks Mike Adams should be a pick of ours, but slams Jenkins. Guess what, Adams tested positive at the combine when he knew it was coming. What a loser, but everyone who is a Buckeye is one.

pricejj
04-20-2012, 10:01 AM
...

Quit the insults man. You're a good dude, and I like you.

Kirkpatrick won't last past #24. And no, I don't think he's a great CB in the NFL because he's not a burner. I wouldn't be terribly disappointed if the Broncos drafted him, because I think he's a better prospect than some of the DT alternatives that have been discussed.

Maybe he's faster than his Combine and Pro day indicate. That is something that I just don't know.

DenverBrit
04-20-2012, 10:03 AM
1. Yeah, he was scheduled to count $4.38M against the cap...cutting him will still cost them $2.4M.
2. They are still $26M below the cap (including rollover).
3. Samuel is going to cost more, A LOT more.
4. Goodman is better than Chris Harris, any day of the week.
5. Samuel trade is looking slim.


Yeah, it's just Monopoly money, pay Goodman $4 plus million, and stop trying to upgrade.

pricejj
04-20-2012, 10:10 AM
. . . Price has finally gone off the deep end. He still thinks Mike Adams should be a pick of ours, but slams Jenkins. Guess what, Adams tested positive at the combine when he knew it was coming. What a loser, but everyone who is a Buckeye is one.

I like Adams, but am not enamored with him, because he's not that hard of a worker. I don't hate Jenkins, he might be a very good player. I just don't think he gets picked in the 1st round. If he was still around at #57, I wouldn't hesistate to pick him.

Yeah, it's just Monopoly money, pay Goodman $4 plus million, and stop trying to upgrade.

Don't get it twisted. Upgrade if you can, but don't create a need by unecessarily cutting a player. If the Broncos can get Samuel...all is forgotten.

Drek
04-20-2012, 10:12 AM
Zones + Better players = Lots of turnovers :)


Seems like the only answer as long as college clubs move every great athlete over 6'0" and under 260 pounds to WR or TE now, paired with the NFL instituting a "no touching" policy for DBs.

If you know Calvin Johnson, Graham, Gronkowski, etc. can freely get down field and effectively post up for jump balls against guys half a foot shorter than them then why keep fighting it? Just make passing a riskier proposition from a turnovers standpoint because you certainly aren't shutting out the elite passing offenses with any consistency.

Requiem
04-20-2012, 10:17 AM
Don't get it twisted. Upgrade if you can, but don't create a need by unecessarily cutting a player.

Cornerback was a need whether we cut Goodman or not. We had Champ Bailey, Tracy Porter (after FA) and Chris Harris. Nobody knows how well Thompson or Vaughn will be after their injuries, with one being an Achilles. Champ is wonderful, but getting older and Goodman was absolutely terrible.

Cornerback is still a need, even with adding Porter. We would be SOL if one of the guys we had on our roster went down.

pricejj
04-20-2012, 10:22 AM
Cornerback is still a need, even with adding Porter. We would be SOL if one of the guys we had on our roster went down.

Yeah, that's true. That would be sweet if we landed Samuel.

Drek and Rev have good points that Del Rio might be switching to more zone coverage as well...Kirkpatrick would probably excel in zone-coverage, I hadn't thought about that.

Whatever it takes so this Defense doesn't give up 40 anymore...sheesh.

TheReverend
04-20-2012, 10:24 AM
Seems like the only answer as long as college clubs move every great athlete over 6'0" and under 260 pounds to WR or TE now, paired with the NFL instituting a "no touching" policy for DBs.

If you know Calvin Johnson, Graham, Gronkowski, etc. can freely get down field and effectively post up for jump balls against guys half a foot shorter than them then why keep fighting it? Just make passing a riskier proposition from a turnovers standpoint because you certainly aren't shutting out the elite passing offenses with any consistency.

Meh. It's yin and yang.

Man tends to buy more time to put the QB on the ground.

oubronco
04-20-2012, 10:25 AM
I'd rather they go with Kirkpatrick in the draft instead of paying an enormous amount for Samuels

bfoflcommish
04-20-2012, 10:44 AM
Whatever it takes so this Defense doesn't give up 40 anymore...sheesh.


other than the Bills game, only other 40+ was packers, lions and Pats....not like we were the only team they all lit up. and if offense moves ball better in thosew games their offense is off field which means less chance to score........I know I know old news.

Beantown Bronco
04-20-2012, 10:58 AM
other than the Bills game, only other 40+ was packers, lions and Pats....not like we were the only team they all lit up. and if offense moves ball better in thosew games their offense is off field which means less chance to score........I know I know old news.

Giving up 40+ pts in 1/4 of your games isn't exactly something to be proud of.

bfoflcommish
04-20-2012, 11:01 AM
Giving up 40+ pts in 1/4 of your games isn't exactly something to be proud of.

oh i agree but there were 2 other big contributing factors in that besides just our Defense, the actual opposition as wellas our own Offense helped contribute alot to that

TonyR
04-20-2012, 11:10 AM
The asking price for four-time Pro Bowl cornerback Asante Samuel is dropping.

Reports the Philadelphia Eagles “we’re looking for a 3d or 4th rd pick for (Samuel) were wrong. They are willing to take a 5th or 6th,” tweeted Jeff McLane of the Philadelphia Inquirer.

Interested teams remain aware of Samuel’s age—he’s 31—and can’t be thrilled with his contract. With two years left, Samuel’s set to earn $10 million with a $100,000 offseason workout bonus in 2012 and $11.5 million with a $100,000 workout bonus in 2013. The Eagles are reportedly willing to chop $2.5 million off next season’s bill, but that won’t please Samuel.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82877807/article/report-eagles-willing-to-trade-samuel-for-5th-or-6th

TonyR
04-20-2012, 11:11 AM
$10M sounds steep, but Samuel did rate +9.2 overall last season according to PFF (-1.7 run defense, +9.6 pass coverage, +1.3 penalty), which was 12th-best among cornerbacks and ahead of Denver's own Champ Bailey (+7.5 overall) and Chris Harris (+6.0). Gotta wonder if the price will continue to drop, or if Philly will consider cutting Samuel outright, a move that would appear to cost the Eagles about a $2M cap hit. Of course, at that point Denver would presumably be competing with other teams for Samuel's services, if they were to maintain interest in the 10th-year player.

As Matt Bowen sees it, any team that employs a good deal of Cover 1 should be pursuing a deal for Samuel.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/prime-cuts/slice/eagles-will-reportedly-take-5th-or-6th-for-samuel-after-nixing-denver-offer

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Would-you-make-a-run-at-Asante-Samuel.html

TheReverend
04-20-2012, 11:52 AM
As Matt Bowen sees it, any team that employs a good deal of Cover 1 should be pursuing a deal for Samuel.

(see avy)

Clearly they dont know what that means...

TonyR
04-20-2012, 11:56 AM
Here's the full write-up by Bowen:


Looking at offensive playbooks in the NFL, why wouldn’t there be interest in Eagles CB Asante Samuel? Think about it: if you play in the nickel (or dime) sub package, you might as well call yourself a “starter” in this league.

Three and four wide receiver personnel, two tight end sets with a “move TE” flexed from the formation as a WR. Empty looks. Spread the field and chuck the ball around.

You need three CBs that can cover, drive on the ball and matchup to the entire route tree inside and outside of the numbers.

Samuel gives you that. Maybe he isn’t your No.1 guy that draws the matchup of the top WR across the line of scrimmage or even your No.2 in the secondary.

However, you need multiple corners on your roster that play a role in the defensive game plan.

The Eagles CB can play from an off-man position (toughest technique in the secondary) and he gets his hands on the football. The negatives? Samuel will take some risks, jump a route and he isn’t a physical ball player. Not the ideal CB to set the edge or play in a Cover 2 based scheme.

And there is the contract. Philly owes the CB $21-million over the next two seasons and his value on the field doesn’t reflect that price tag. However, if you can re-negotiate a new deal, a new dollar amount, this has to be an option for multiple teams.

A fifth or sixth round pick for a CB with experience that can come in and upgrade your secondary? If I had a defensive playbook that leaned heavily on Cover 1 (man-free), I would take a hard look at Samuel.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Would-you-make-a-run-at-Asante-Samuel.html

razorwire77
04-20-2012, 12:17 PM
Not really sure what point Bowen is trying to make about the cover one . Do you really want to lock a route jumping gambling CB with questionable tackling technique into man coverage with no help up top? Is he talking about having Samuel play a sort of roving safety role and playing the ball in deep coverage? Neither one sounds particularly appealing.

Drek
04-20-2012, 01:37 PM
Meh. It's yin and yang.

Man tends to buy more time to put the QB on the ground.

Yeah, probably, just feels like you can't win match ups in man nowadays if you aren't putting a Champ Bailey out there. Anything short of that and DBs can't keep up without getting a PI flag tossed at them.

Requiem
04-20-2012, 01:43 PM
Yeah, that's true. That would be sweet if we landed Samuel.

Drek and Rev have good points that Del Rio might be switching to more zone coverage as well...Kirkpatrick would probably excel in zone-coverage, I hadn't thought about that.

Whatever it takes so this Defense doesn't give up 40 anymore...sheesh.

Kirkpatrick can plan zone and man both, and his physical nature and ability to jam receivers is what makes him ideal in press-man. He exemplifies a lot of top qualities in a cornerback. Him and Jenkins are the best IMO, Claiborne isn't even that great. I would actually take Dre and Jenkins as PLAYERS over Claiborne. Even, Gilmore too.

I just hope the Lions don't grab Dre or we are toast. Word is they want to trade down and take SImiAslaosuto the guard.

DENVERDUI55
04-20-2012, 01:58 PM
Samuel is a CB that great QBs will toast left and right with accurate balls. What he does give you is he makes plays on bad throws. He isn't the guy I want playing in a cover 1.

Beantown Bronco
04-20-2012, 02:10 PM
Samuel is a CB that great QBs will toast left and right with accurate balls.

I would have a hard time naming 5 CBs that this statement doesn't apply to.

DENVERDUI55
04-20-2012, 03:27 PM
I would have a hard time naming 5 CBs that this statement doesn't apply to.

There are sveral CB that are good cover guys but don't make many plays either. There are solid cover guys that can't make plays very often but limit big plays too. nmandi A is food example.

ClamChowdah
04-20-2012, 07:26 PM
$10m salary for a corner who can only play zone and sucks in man Hilarious!

Anyone who thinks he is worth that salary should just give up watching football.

Requiem
04-20-2012, 07:28 PM
$10m salary for a corner who can only play zone and sucks in man Hilarious!

Anyone who thinks he is worth that salary should just give up watching football.

You are a fag.

ClamChowdah
04-20-2012, 07:34 PM
He would need to drop half his salary for any team who isn't completely stupid to be interested.

socalorado
04-20-2012, 07:37 PM
^ Yeah heard this on the radio early this morning driving home but was too lazy to search a link and make a thread.

What we SHOULD be talking about is how this moved (in conjunction with Porter) means a shift to more zone heavy defenses. It also means a much more competent backfield in that regard.

Zones + Better players = Lots of turnovers :)

Instead we're still talking about Goodman with the one guy that clearly hasnt watched a football game.

^
THIS

Cito Pelon
04-20-2012, 09:44 PM
Come on.. that's Mashawn "Beast" Lynch! That dude is just badass! Is Porter a great tackler? No... but he is by no means bad like Cro or Samuel. We are just to spoiled with the Champ standard.

Yeah. If you want a coverage CB AND a tackling CB, good luck to you trying to find one.

yerner
04-21-2012, 06:48 AM
Kirkpatrick can plan zone and man both, and his physical nature and ability to jam receivers is what makes him ideal in press-man. He exemplifies a lot of top qualities in a cornerback. Him and Jenkins are the best IMO, Claiborne isn't even that great. I would actually take Dre and Jenkins as PLAYERS over Claiborne. Even, Gilmore too.

I just hope the Lions don't grab Dre or we are toast. Word is they want to trade down and take SImiAslaosuto the guard.

Most of the scouting articles I've read say Kirkpatrick has short arms and trouble with the ball in the air causing him to struggle in man to man.

Requiem
04-21-2012, 07:04 AM
Most of the scouting articles I've read say Kirkpatrick has short arms and trouble with the ball in the air causing him to struggle in man to man.

Ah, I am not sure about that. I don't think his arm size is truly an issue. I can see where people think he is a great zone defender, but I love how physical he can be off the line. He did well pressing in man coverage in college and I see no reason why it can't continue in the pros. He is just a very talented, battle tested player.

Bronco Rob
04-21-2012, 07:04 AM
How low will Eagles go to jettison Samuel?


By Jeff McLane Fri, Apr. 20, 2012, 5:35 PM



The Eagles received a trade offer from the Denver Broncos for cornerback Asante Samuel, an NFL source said.

The Denver Post first reported the Broncos' interest in the four-time Pro Bowler. According to the newspaper, Denver had two offers on the table - one involving a fifth- or sixth-round pick in next week's draft, the other for an unnamed player.

The Eagles were believed to be seeking a third- or fourth-round pick for Samuel, but are willing to take less than that, according to two NFL sources.

So what is the hang-up?

While Samuel has agreed to restructure the remaining two years of his contract - he's slated to earn $10 million this season and $11.5 million next season - he has yet to consent to some other requests by Denver, sources said.

The Eagles have been talking with other teams about Samuel, who has been on and off the market since last summer after the team acquired Nnamdi Asomugha and Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie.

An exchange with Detroit, which would have netted the Eagles two second-day draft picks, was broached in August but fell apart for reasons other than compensation. Samuel started 14 games at his regular left-corner spot, but his off-corner style did not appear to suit the Eagles' new defensive scheme.

He missed the final two games of the season and Rodgers-Cromartie filled in - seemingly without missing a beat.

Samuel, though, is still considered an elite corner in some circles. The 31-year-old has 45 career interceptions, 23 of those coming during his four seasons in Philadelphia. He showed up for offseason workouts this week, partly to collect a bonus, and told the Eagles' website that his preference was to remain here.

The Eagles, though, have decided to move on, and appear willing to take whatever they can get before the draft starts Thursday.


http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/Eagles_will_take_low_pick_for_Samuel.html

TonyR
04-21-2012, 07:16 AM
While Samuel has agreed to restructure the remaining two years of his contract - he's slated to earn $10 million this season and $11.5 million next season - he has yet to consent to some other requests by Denver, sources said.

Interesting. And the use of the word "yet" makes it sound as if this could still possibly happen.

Bronco Rob
04-21-2012, 06:03 PM
Brandon Spano

One league insider I talked to says that Asante is stubborn on contract restructure because he wants to be released and play FA his way.



Like · · @BrandonSpano on Twitter · 17 minutes ago via Twitter ·



Asante has always been ALL about the money. It's very well known. Great player, but questions about his priority.



Like · · @BrandonSpano on Twitter · 17 minutes ago via Twitter · .




:sunshine:

Bronco Rob
04-21-2012, 08:32 PM
Brandon Spano

One source tells me top ten. I really don't know. RT @dnel0780 How far do u think the Broncos would have to move?



Like · · @BrandonSpano on Twitter · 22 minutes ago via Twitter · .


:sunshine:

Lestat
04-21-2012, 08:43 PM
the Orange Mane will end if the Broncos move up to the top 10 for Gilmore. not just Gilmore, but for a non DT and a Gilmore who most Maners see as a 25-30ish pick.

that might be slightly worth it to see but man, the board will crash.

barryr
04-21-2012, 08:43 PM
I'm ok with getting Samuel, but only if they get him for cheap in terms of compensation, like a 4th at best, then a good move.

barryr
04-21-2012, 08:45 PM
the Orange Mane will end if the Broncos move up to the top 10 for Gilmore. not just Gilmore, but for a non DT and a Gilmore who most Maners see as a 25-30ish pick.

that might be slightly worth it to see but man, the board will crash.

I highly doubt the Broncos would even try to trade up that high for Gilmore. For Fletcher Cox however, yes, they could try at least.

UberBroncoMan
04-21-2012, 08:46 PM
I'm ok with getting Samuel, but only if they get him for cheap in terms of compensation, like a 4th at best, then a good move.

Wouldn't give up a 4th for his bloated contract. We've made quite a few hits in the 4th round in recent years.

Lestat
04-21-2012, 08:50 PM
I highly doubt the Broncos would even try to trade up that high for Gilmore. For Fletcher Cox however, yes, they could try at least.

him or Ingram, but Cox plays DT, can pass rush and stout in the run game. so Cox wins by a wide margin.

barryr
04-21-2012, 08:56 PM
him or Ingram, but Cox plays DT, can pass rush and stout in the run game. so Cox wins by a wide margin.

If the Broncos could trade up to get Cox, then I think they need to do so. I see him as far better than the other DT's at 25.

BroncoMan4ever
04-21-2012, 10:02 PM
If we could steal him the way we stole Bunkley I'd be all for it. But I don't see them giving Samuel away in the same fashion. I think it will take a 2nd round pick at the very least and I don't know that I want the Broncos to give that much up.

supposedly the asking price is a 4th. Denver offered a 5th or 6th or a player. the price tag is steep with Samuel. over 10 million over the next 2 seasons. that is why the asking price is somewhat low.

and we would have to part with a huge chunk of our draft to move up to the top 10

Bronco Rob
04-21-2012, 10:09 PM
One league insider I talked to says that Asante is stubborn on contract restructure because he wants to be released and play FA his way.



@BrandonSpano on Twitter · via Twitter

g6matty
04-21-2012, 10:34 PM
:stirstir:

KevinJames
04-22-2012, 01:38 AM
Hate to break it to yall but Brandon Spano doesn't know jack ****. Why would we move up for Gilmore....smh

Shananahan
04-22-2012, 01:44 AM
I would have to choke a bitch if they pulled that off.

Shananahan
04-22-2012, 01:47 AM
Actually I'd probably just groan loudly and find a way to remain positive, but the figurative bitch would be so choked.

dbfan21
04-22-2012, 06:12 AM
Actually I'd probably just groan loudly and find a way to remain positive, but the figurative bitch would be so choked.

Hilarious!

TheReverend
04-22-2012, 07:14 AM
Actually I'd probably just groan loudly and find a way to remain positive, but the figurative bitch would be so choked.

Not my preferred route either, but really couldn't complain too much with Gilmore or Cox added to the roster. I definitely liked both a lot more a few months ago when they were 2nd round gems.

vancejohnson82
04-22-2012, 07:39 AM
Not my preferred route either, but really couldn't complain too much with Gilmore or Cox added to the roster. I definitely liked both a lot more a few months ago when they were 2nd round gems.

exactly...I was completely on board with knocking a 2nd round pick out of the park with one of those two....but trading up to nab Gilmore??? At 10???

Anybody have that value chart handy? What would we be looking at in order to move up

Bigdawg26
04-22-2012, 07:48 AM
Yeah I'm not to excited about trading up for a conerback. You can get a pretty good one in the second round. If that was a DT then ok I can understand that, but knowing this team and their hatred for DT's that is very unlikely.

Lestat
04-22-2012, 07:59 AM
exactly...I was completely on board with knocking a 2nd round pick out of the park with one of those two....but trading up to nab Gilmore??? At 10???

Anybody have that value chart handy? What would we be looking at in order to move up

i believe a 2nd and a 4th is the "chart" cost. but it will likely cost more since moving from from 10 to 25 is a 15 spot drop. might have to include a first next year as well.

Lestat
04-22-2012, 08:01 AM
I would have to choke a bitch if they pulled that off.

Hilarious! now now, his name is Brian Xanders, but you still shouldn't choke him.

houghtam
04-22-2012, 08:02 AM
Apparently there is interest there. After making a move for Asante and now this, they obviously aren't happy with the CB position still.

Careful. If you criticize Broncos players apparently you're not a Broncos fan. I wonder if that applies to the FO as well.

rmsanger
04-22-2012, 08:10 AM
Yep.... Trading up in the 1st to take suspect CBs has worked so well for us recently!

http://nflsoup.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Alphonso-Smith.jpg

Lestat
04-22-2012, 08:13 AM
Yep.... Trading up in the 1st to take suspect CBs has worked so well for us recently!

http://nflsoup.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Alphonso-Smith.jpg

he was traded for in the 2nd and we dealt away a first round pick(Earl Thomas). know your McBroncos history Hilarious!(it's so bad of a trade i can only laugh)

eddie mac
04-22-2012, 08:14 AM
"Broncos making calls to see how far they'd need to move up for Gilmore"

Does anyone else actually see the stupidity in that statement???

theAPAOps5
04-22-2012, 08:15 AM
Hate to break it to yall but Brandon Spano doesn't know jack ****. Why would we move up for Gilmore....smh

This

Lestat
04-22-2012, 08:21 AM
"Broncos making calls to see how far they'd need to move up for Gilmore"

Does anyone else actually see the stupidity in that statement???

it is stupid but no more so than the talk swirling about us liking Miller enough to take him in round 1.

theAPAOps5
04-22-2012, 08:27 AM
it is stupid but no more so than the talk swirling about us liking Miller enough to take him in round 1.

Well I would say Von Miller was worth it............




:)

Requiem
04-22-2012, 08:28 AM
Gilmore would be fantastic, but he could go in the Top 10. No way we will have a shot at grabbing him.

peacepipe
04-22-2012, 08:32 AM
Gilmore would be fantastic, but he could go in the Top 10. No way we will have a shot at grabbing him.

personally,I think he'll drop to mid teens. I think all this talk is just pre-draft buzz to get a player at a differant position to drop further.

Lestat
04-22-2012, 08:58 AM
Well I would say Von Miller was worth it............




:)

well it couldn't hurt to have a Miller on O & D. it'd be Miller time for sure in the Rocky Mountains.

uplink
04-22-2012, 09:05 AM
please no trade up EFX, just remain patient and wait and select the players that fall to you. Trade ups never work for the broncos. In fact is there one instant of this working out for the broncos. All I remember are the failures: Moss, Quinn, Smith, ....

vancejohnson82
04-22-2012, 09:11 AM
please no trade up EFX, just remain patient and wait and select the players that fall to you. Trade ups never work for the broncos. In fact is there one instant of this working out for the broncos. All I remember are the failures: Moss, Quinn, Smith, ....

Tebow....


too soon???

Hamrob
04-22-2012, 09:16 AM
This has got to be the stupidest rumor I've heard so far. I like Gilmore, Cox, Richardson, Claiborne, Kirkpatrick, Keuchly...etc. But, for Denver to trade up just 10 spots (into the teens), it would cost us our 2nd and a 4th.

Are any of those guys worth our 1st, 2nd, and a 4th round pick. I don't think so. The only one that is worth that type of deal, in my opinion, would be Richardson. Is it worth it. Wow. I don't think so, and here's why. We have too many holes to fill. If our roster was deeper, then o.k. But, not when we need a DT, CB, LB, RB.

To get into the top 10 from 25, it would cost us:

#25
#57
a 4th rounder
Our 1st next year

That's the price for a chance at Richardson. Is he worth that? I say no. And Gilmore...give me a fing break!

Lestat
04-22-2012, 09:29 AM
please no trade up EFX, just remain patient and wait and select the players that fall to you. Trade ups never work for the broncos. In fact is there one instant of this working out for the broncos. All I remember are the failures: Moss, Quinn, Smith, ....

we traded up to #11 with the Rams for Jay Cutler. if McDaniels doesn't turn stupid we likely run the division and he's not fired.

DENVERDUI55
04-22-2012, 09:36 AM
Sorry not going to happen.
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=104796&highlight=empireorange

houghtam
04-22-2012, 09:40 AM
Sorry not going to happen.
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=104796&highlight=empireorange

LOL erp

R8R H8R
04-22-2012, 09:57 AM
please no trade up EFX, just remain patient and wait and select the players that fall to you. Trade ups never work for the broncos. In fact is there one instant of this working out for the broncos. All I remember are the failures: Moss, Quinn, Smith, ....

We traded up for DJ Williams; D.T. was a trade back-then a trade up; Tebow worked out for us this past year, and as someone else said, we traded up for Cutler. None of these players are busts.This is just off the top of my head, there may be more.

With all this being said, just because past regimes may have whiffed drafting a certain way, be it by trading up or drafting 1st round WR's, or whatever, that has absolutely nothing to do with this regime or fate. What happened in the past has nothing to do with right now.

I really don't care if they move up or down or stay put. I just want them to get a good player. Period.

Denver724
04-22-2012, 11:49 AM
I think Gilmore goes to the Jags at #7.

Drunken.Broncoholic
04-22-2012, 12:00 PM
All this preference on CB. Maybe they think Tracy porter will miss half the season on suspension.

Denver724
04-22-2012, 12:02 PM
From the Bleacher Reports Matt Miller on Twitter today.

Matt Miller ‏ <s>@</s>nfldraftscout (https://twitter.com/#%21/nfldraftscout) Should the <s>#</s>Vikings (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23Vikings) draft Mo Claiborne, Stephon Gilmore is suddenly in play for Tampa at pick #5.

houghtam
04-22-2012, 12:04 PM
5? 7?

I loled.

Gilmore will more than likely be there at 25.

Denver724
04-22-2012, 12:08 PM
5? 7?

I loled.

Gilmore will more than likely be there at 25.

No way. He will be the 2nd corner off the board and will be scooped up at #9 by the Panthers (if he falls that far). #5, #7 or #9. Top 10 for sure.

Drunken.Broncoholic
04-22-2012, 12:10 PM
No way. He will be the 2nd corner off the board and will be scooped up at #9 by the Panthers (if he falls that far). #5, #7 or #9. Top 10 for sure.

Bengals are in desperate need for a CB and they got 2 picks before 25.

houghtam
04-22-2012, 12:11 PM
No way. He will be the 2nd corner off the board and will be scooped up at #9 by the Panthers (if he falls that far). #5, #7 or #9. Top 10 for sure.

Kirkpatrick and maybe Jenkins will go before Gilmore. Gilmore won't go before pick 20.

Punisher
04-22-2012, 12:13 PM
Gilmore? lol Hightower!!!

Bronco Rob
04-22-2012, 12:16 PM
Sorry not going to happen.
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=104796&highlight=empireorange



Well played........




^5

Denver724
04-22-2012, 12:21 PM
Kirkpatrick and maybe Jenkins will go before Gilmore. Gilmore won't go before pick 20.

We will see. Kirkpatrick's stock has taken a slight hit and some are saying Jenkins may fall all the way to the 3rd rd.

houghtam
04-22-2012, 12:26 PM
We will see. Kirkpatrick's stock has taken a slight hit and some are saying Jenkins may fall all the way to the 3rd rd.

I don't think he'll fall at all. It's not like he punched a cop a week before the draft or anything. He's got character questions, but a team like Cincinnati, Baltimore or Dallas wouldn't have any problems drafting him in the first, I'd be willing to bet.

Kirkpatrick will be the second CB taken, and I don't think any of this year's CBs outside of Mo Claiborne are worth a top 10 pick.

gyldenlove
04-22-2012, 12:40 PM
I don't think he'll fall at all. It's not like he punched a cop a week before the draft or anything. He's got character questions, but a team like Cincinnati, Baltimore or Dallas wouldn't have any problems drafting him in the first, I'd be willing to bet.

Kirkpatrick will be the second CB taken, and I don't think any of this year's CBs outside of Mo Claiborne are worth a top 10 pick.

Gilmore will go as the 2nd CB.

houghtam
04-22-2012, 12:47 PM
Gilmore will go as the 2nd CB.

Anyone care to make a friendly wager that Gilmore will not be the second CB taken/will not be taken before 20/will not be taken before Kirkpatrick?

Carmelo15
04-22-2012, 01:17 PM
Anyone care to make a friendly wager that Gilmore will not be the second CB taken/will not be taken before 20/will not be taken before Kirkpatrick?

I think he goes top 20

Shananahan
04-22-2012, 01:26 PM
Anyone care to make a friendly wager that Gilmore will not be the second CB taken/will not be taken before 20/will not be taken before Kirkpatrick?
Probably not. It takes a lot of balls to publicly disagree with someone on an internet message board.

DBroncos4life
04-22-2012, 01:27 PM
This team is CB crazy.

houghtam
04-22-2012, 01:43 PM
Probably not. It takes a lot of balls to publicly disagree with someone on an internet message board.

...and even more to not welch.

/coughbobcough

pricejj
04-22-2012, 01:45 PM
Kirkpatrick and maybe Jenkins will go before Gilmore. Gilmore won't go before pick 20.

I'll take you up on that bet. Pass the purple kush while you're at it.

houghtam
04-22-2012, 01:47 PM
I'll take you up on that bet. Pass the purple kush while you're at it.

Sure. If I win, will you stop starting asinine threads, or at least not delete them just when they're getting really interesting? ;D

pricejj
04-22-2012, 01:59 PM
Sure. If I win, will you stop starting asinine threads, or at least not delete them just when they're getting really interesting? ;D

1. You are betting Janoris Jenkins goes before Stephon Gilmore.
2. If I win, you change your avy to Michigan's logo, until I tell you that you can change it back (~24 hours).
2. My threads are sweet.
3. I already said I won't delete any threads.
4. Jerel Worthy sucks monkey nuts. :P

houghtam
04-22-2012, 02:06 PM
1. You are betting Janoris Jenkins goes before Stephon Gilmore.
2. If I win, you change your avy to Michigan's logo, until I tell you that you can change it back (~24 hours).
2. My threads are sweet.
3. I already said I won't delete any threads.
4. Jerel Worthy sucks monkey nuts. :P

Woah, hold on, I misread which post of mine you quoted.

I'm willing to make any of the following bets:

Gilmore will not be the second CB taken
Gilmore will not be taken before 20
Gilmore will not be taken before Kirkpatrick

I think Jenkins may be taken before Gilmore because he has a bigger upside, but I'm not willing to make a bet on it.

If you're willing to take me up on any of the three I listed, we can discuss terms.

oubronco
04-22-2012, 04:28 PM
If they are trading up that high Melvin Ingram would be alot better

Drunken.Broncoholic
04-22-2012, 04:34 PM
Bump this thread on draft day

Denver724
04-22-2012, 04:43 PM
On Friday's Path to the Draft on NFL network Mike Lombardi said the Jag's like Gilmore more than Claiborne. It's a lock!

And Charlie Casserly has Gilmore as his 2nd rated CB.

And the Bengal beat writer said if Gilmore is there at #17 they will take him. If not, they will SETTLE for Kirkpatrick.

Vegas_Bronco
04-22-2012, 05:00 PM
Heeeheee...we don't like the DTS this year...no new news here.

broncolife
04-22-2012, 05:04 PM
Seeing it reported on twitter that the trade of 4th and 7th for Samuel was a fake report

Eric Goodman
Sorry about this.. FAKE ESPN REPORT.. on Asante Samuel to #Broncos...

houghtam
04-22-2012, 05:22 PM
Seeing it reported on twitter that the trade of 4th and 7th for Samuel was a fake report

Eric Goodman
Sorry about this.. FAKE ESPN REPORT.. on Asante Samuel to #Broncos...

Entertainment and Sports Programming Network

Yep, still there.

CEH
04-22-2012, 05:37 PM
So all the defensive gurus out there what does the pursuit of Samuel tell us about Denver defensive scheme in '12

Gcver2ver3
04-22-2012, 05:37 PM
Seeing it reported on twitter that the trade of 4th and 7th for Samuel was a fake report

Eric Goodman
Sorry about this.. FAKE ESPN REPORT.. on Asante Samuel to #Broncos...

wikipedia has him as an eagle...

so all is good...

TonyR
04-22-2012, 06:19 PM
The Broncos' pursuit of Asante Samuel is more than an admission they want to upgrade their secondary.

It might be the very clue we needed to put this whole question of their defensive scheme (and perhaps their draft strategy) together.

How so? It starts with the overlooked fact that Asante Samuel's skillset is not tight, man-to-man coverage. It's playing off man in a Cover 2. In fact, Samuel is world class at this style of cornerback play. Coincidentally (not so much), it's also Champ Bailey's strength, although Bailey is certainly adept at playing tight man coverage when the situation calls for it. But Bailey's preference is off man, where he can play five to seven yards off the line of scrimmage, aligned straight legged, and heads up or slightly outside of the receiver, peering into the backfield at the quarterback.

You'll recall that when Bailey finished runner-up to Jason Taylor as Defensive POY in 2006, he played a majority of his coverages out of this scheme. It allowed him to utilize his experience with offensive play and route recognition, along with his catlike reflexes.

Samuel, although not in Bailey's league when it comes to man-to-man coverage, has a similar ability to react to the quarterback and read routes out of off-man coverage. Of course, this is exactly why the Broncos wanted to trade for him. Their intention was for their base defense to feature off-man coverage from the corners. It's no coincidence the Broncos have also signed Tracy Porter, another cornerback, who, although younger than Samuel, also has a preference for off-man coverage.

This point is key in understanding Jack Del Rio's scheme (and John Fox's too) heading into the 2012 season...

Read the rest here: http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/broncos-pursuit-of-asante-samuel-leaves-clues-to-draft-and-scheme

Also talks about Kendall Reyes, Jerel Worthy, and Doug Martin.

TheReverend
04-22-2012, 06:53 PM
^ IAOFM ripping me off again

elsid13
04-22-2012, 07:12 PM
If we are looking for more of zone CB why not Casey Hayward in the second or third?

BroncoInferno
04-22-2012, 07:13 PM
There's no chance Reyes is there at #57. Absolutely none.

Requiem
04-22-2012, 07:15 PM
^ IAOFM ripping me off again

It is a common runnin' theme.

Br0nc0Buster
04-22-2012, 07:23 PM
I figured with the Porter signing and the targeting of samuel it means we are going to play off more with more zone

that said I wonder why we are asking about Stephon Gilmore if that is the case

Requiem
04-22-2012, 07:26 PM
I figured with the Porter signing and the targeting of samuel it means we are going to play off more with more zone

that said I wonder why we are asking about Stephon Gilmore if that is the case

Because Gilmore is perfect for zone coverage? Hilarious!

Br0nc0Buster
04-22-2012, 07:32 PM
Because Gilmore is perfect for zone coverage? Hilarious!

my bad I thought I read he played man in college

oh well looks like we are going zone

fine with me

TonyR
04-23-2012, 05:47 AM
There's no chance Reyes is there at #57. Absolutely none.

Even so, I tend to agree with the analysis here that the Broncos won't reach for a DT at 25 and will lean more BPA with RB being a possibility, then hopefully getting a DT at 57. I also agree with them that I'd prefer they not take a QB at 87. I just think people that are assuming DT at 25 should brace themselves for the very high probability that it won't happen.

houghtam
04-23-2012, 07:21 AM
I just think people that are assuming DT at 25 should brace themselves for the very high probability that it won't happen.

Yep. And add to DT any other position of need. I'm of the opinion that EFX are truly convinced we can win now. I think they're going to try and get playmakers at skill positions in the first two rounds (don't be surprised if they go RB, WR), and ST contributors in the remaining.

TonyR
04-23-2012, 07:26 AM
I think they're going to try and get playmakers at skill positions in the first two rounds (don't be surprised if they go RB, WR)...

Well, if a DT or CB they like is there at 25 they'll jump all over it. But I don't think they'll be there so to me anything is possible (RB, OL, etc.). I just hope and pray one of their later DT targets is there in the 2nd round.

houghtam
04-23-2012, 07:30 AM
Well, if a DT or CB they like is there at 25 they'll jump all over it. But I don't think they'll be there so to me anything is possible (RB, OL, etc.). I just hope and pray one of their later DT targets is there in the 2nd round.

CB yes, DT no, IMO.

But no amount of saying "be prepared" is going to keep this place from shutting down when they don't go DT.

Lestat
04-23-2012, 08:20 AM
Even so, I tend to agree with the analysis here that the Broncos won't reach for a DT at 25 and will lean more BPA with RB being a possibility, then hopefully getting a DT at 57. I also agree with them that I'd prefer they not take a QB at 87. I just think people that are assuming DT at 25 should brace themselves for the very high probability that it won't happen.

in theory that's a solid stance, but in reality they took that same stance last season and didn't take a single DT and explained it as not reaching even though there was a lot of talent at the position. this years draft is even deeper, that doesn't wash if you don't take a DT with one of the first two picks.

Bigdawg26
04-23-2012, 08:49 AM
I figured with the Porter signing and the targeting of samuel it means we are going to play off more with more zone

that said I wonder why we are asking about Stephon Gilmore if that is the case

Porter is more of a man coverage corner.

BroncoBen
04-23-2012, 08:55 AM
Apparently there is interest there. After making a move for Asante and now this, they obviously aren't happy with the CB position still.
Like · · @BrandonSpano on Twitter · 26 minutes ago via Twitter · .
Brandon Spano

Source has told me that the Broncos have made calls to find out how far they would have to trade up to select CB Stephon Gilmore from SC.

Like · · @BrandonSpano on Twitter · 25 minutes ago via Twitter · .

:sunshine:

I don't understand .. who would the Broncos call about trading up ? I can see the Broncos having an interest in Gilmore, and having him high on their draft board.

I guess the Broncos could be calling teams to see what the asking price would be to move up.

socalorado
04-23-2012, 09:05 AM
Gilmore would be perfect at #25...if hes there.
And yes, i would hope they would take Gilmore over Crappatrick.

schaaf
04-23-2012, 09:14 AM
I just keep telling myself as long as Ty Warren stays healthy he is a Pro Bowl player, I wouldnt bet on it if i was in charge but they seem to be.

peacepipe
04-23-2012, 09:19 AM
adam schefter is reporting on the herd that every team from 3-16 is receptive to tradeing down

Lestat
04-23-2012, 09:20 AM
definitely doesn't look like he's sliding out of the top 15 at present. he's apparently aced the draft process in combine, on the field season, interviews and background checks.

on the downside, walter football has us selecting Jerel Worthy at #25. that bothers me to no end.

houghtam
04-23-2012, 09:27 AM
definitely doesn't look like he's sliding out of the top 15 at present. he's apparently aced the draft process in combine, on the field season, interviews and background checks.

on the downside, walter football has us selecting Jerel Worthy at #25. that bothers me to no end.

Your anti-Spartans schtick makes me Hilarious!

What makes it even funnier is it makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about.

pricejj
04-23-2012, 10:00 AM
Your anti-Spartans schtick makes me Hilarious!

What makes it even funnier is it makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about.

It's not any bias houghtam...it's just that Worthy looks like a 2nd round DT to anyone who has eyes. Sure you can fall in love with him from watching a couple games, where he seems to be on the verge of dominating...but there is just as much film showing that he is what his measurables and stats seem to indicate.

If you project him as a 30 tackle, 3 sack guy in the NFL...are you comfortable with that as your 1st round pick? I say no. You can find those guys all day long in the 2nd round.

socalorado
04-23-2012, 10:10 AM
It's not any bias houghtam...it's just that Worthy looks like a 2nd round DT to anyone who has eyes. Sure you can fall in love with him from watching a couple games, where he seems to be on the verge of dominating...but there is just as much film showing that he is what his measurables and stats seem to indicate.

If you project him as a 30 tackle, 3 sack guy in the NFL...are you comfortable with that as your 1st round pick? I say no. You can find those guys all day long in the 2nd round.

^
THIS

Lestat
04-23-2012, 10:12 AM
Your anti-Spartans schtick makes me Hilarious!

What makes it even funnier is it makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about.

Worthy is not a first round pick, nothing to do with Spartan bias. if that was the case i'd be advocating Mike Martin over him as a draft pick.
i don't like the Spartans, their players bust out like mad, but i just don't like Worthy in the first round.

as a 2nd round pick he's good value similar to Andy Dalton was last season, similar to Brees when he came out. but to take him with a top 25 selection is crazy, he's not a guy who has a high motor and his ceiling isn't the same as Brockers,Poe,Coples or Cox.

his bust factor is less in terms of him being a solid or average NFL DT than a Poe or Brockers but he's got too much taking plays off in him.
one game on a big stage and he looks like a dominant DT, the next 4-5 games he's invisible.

there are 3(really 4) legit true first round DT's in this draft. Cox,Poe,Brockers and 4 if you view Coples as a DT(which i do)

Worthy,Still,Reyes,Thompson and likely Wolfe are your 2nd round DT's.
all of which will likely be gone by the 20's in the 2nd round.
Worthy is good value in the 2nd but not in the first.

DBroncos4life
04-23-2012, 10:15 AM
It's not any bias houghtam...it's just that Worthy looks like a 2nd round DT to anyone who has eyes. Sure you can fall in love with him from watching a couple games, where he seems to be on the verge of dominating...but there is just as much film showing that he is what his measurables and stats seem to indicate.

If you project him as a 30 tackle, 3 sack guy in the NFL...are you comfortable with that as your 1st round pick? I say no. You can find those guys all day long in the 2nd round.

Flip flop.

Lestat
04-23-2012, 10:18 AM
Flip flop.
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0811/oh-its-on-demotivational-poster-1228008429.jpg

houghtam
04-23-2012, 10:21 AM
It's not any bias houghtam...it's just that Worthy looks like a 2nd round DT to anyone who has eyes. Sure you can fall in love with him from watching a couple games, where he seems to be on the verge of dominating...but there is just as much film showing that he is what his measurables and stats seem to indicate.

If you project him as a 30 tackle, 3 sack guy in the NFL...are you comfortable with that as your 1st round pick? I say no. You can find those guys all day long in the 2nd round.

No, Lestat has stated specifically that he has a bias against Spartan players.

To your point, and to my point that it makes him look like he doesn't know what he's talking about, the anti-Worthy crowd is in the vast minority.

Why do you think Pro Football Weekly has him rated as it's 4th highest DT in a draft which is universally recognized to be deep at that position? Why do you think Mike Mayock has him rated as his number 2 DT, saying this?“There’s no way with his body type and his skill set he gets past the first 20 or 25 picks in the first round,” Mayock said. “His tape is good enough that he’s going to be a first-round pick.”Why do you think Mel Kiper has him as a late first or early second? Why do you think Scouts Inc. has him listed as the 22nd player in their Top 32?

Nope.

Captain Internetz knows more than them.

houghtam
04-23-2012, 10:26 AM
Worthy is not a first round pick, nothing to do with Spartan bias. if that was the case i'd be advocating Mike Martin over him as a draft pick.
i don't like the Spartans, their players bust out like mad, but i just don't like Worthy in the first round.

Wrong.

They haven't had a player picked in the first round in 9 years, dude. Their players haven't done well in the NFL because their teams have been mediocre to crappy for the past 10 years prior to Dantonio's arrival.

Now we're 5 years past his arrival, and they've got guys who people are actually buzzing about on draft day. Imagine that.

But you're right...Worthy's not a first round pick. Might want to let everyone else in the NFL know your theory, too. ROFL!

TonyR
04-23-2012, 10:32 AM
...You can find those guys all day long in the 2nd round.

And this is why I don't see us getting a DT at 25...

Lestat
04-23-2012, 10:33 AM
No, Lestat has stated specifically that he has a bias against Spartan players.

To your point, and to my point that it makes him look like he doesn't know what he's talking about, the anti-Worthy crowd is in the vast minority.

Why do you think Pro Football Weekly has him rated as it's 4th highest DT in a draft which is universally recognized to be deep at that position? Why do you think Mike Mayock has him rated as his number 2 DT, saying this?Why do you think Mel Kiper has him as a late first or early second? Why do you think Scouts Inc. has him listed as the 22nd player in their Top 32?

Nope.

Captain Internetz knows more than them.

lol but here's the problem with your argument, i haven't bashed any other players from MSU in this draft outside of Worthy. Cousins is a potential guy we could draft and my only issue with him is the arm and QB history of MSU.
i haven't knocked Edwin Baker nor Trenton Robinson.

it'd be different if i was advocating we pass on any MSU player but i'm not. i said i'm not a fan or Worthy in the first round and as a first round pick i think he'll be a bust.

Lestat
04-23-2012, 10:42 AM
Wrong.

They haven't had a player picked in the first round in 9 years, dude. Their players haven't done well in the NFL because their teams have been mediocre to crappy for the past 10 years prior to Dantonio's arrival.

Now we're 5 years past his arrival, and they've got guys who people are actually buzzing about on draft day. Imagine that.

But you're right...Worthy's not a first round pick. Might want to let everyone else in the NFL know your theory, too. ROFL!

i didn't say it was only their first round picks. the best guys MSU has produced is recent memory are Ringer and that's about it.
Julian Peterson was the last guy who was truly good from MSU, you could argue with Fields from the Phins, Peko from the Bengals and Smith from the Jets, Greg Jones from the Giants, Vickerson for us if he stays healthy.

if Worthy's motor was higher and he didn't disappear in non big time games i wouldn't have an issue taking him in the 1st. but he plays big time every 4-5 games and that's not gonna cut it in the NFL.

pricejj
04-23-2012, 10:52 AM
Flip flop.

I've never been a proponent of Worthy in the 1st.

1. BPA at pick #25 (Brockers, Poe, Hightower, Konz, Fleener, Wright)
2. Move up to get Wolfe or Thompson from pick #57 (using #108, and a 7th).
3. Or just stay put at #57 and go BPA. Any DT we select will just be rotational anyway.

Bronco Rob
04-23-2012, 10:56 AM
Brandon Spano

24 minutes ago via Twitter.

The Broncos draft board was completed on Friday

@BrandonSpano on Twitter · via Twitter


Brandon Spano

35 minutes ago via Twitter.

Just asked Elway if anybody has inquired about their 1st round pick. His response, "not yet."

@BrandonSpano on Twitter · via Twitter


Brandon Spano

30 minutes ago via Twitter.

Just asked Elway about Dre Kirkpatrick. He says "Character is one of the thing we look at Mr. Bowlen wants the Broncos to be looked at...

@BrandonSpano on Twitter · via Twitter



Brandon Spano

26 minutes ago via Twitter.

Elway: "Peyton is not involved in the draft process. He trusts us."

@BrandonSpano on Twitter · via Twitter






:sunshine:

houghtam
04-23-2012, 10:57 AM
i didn't say it was only their first round picks. the best guys MSU has produced is recent memory are Ringer and that's about it.
Julian Peterson was the last guy who was truly good from MSU, you could argue with Fields from the Phins, Peko from the Bengals and Smith from the Jets, Greg Jones from the Giants, Vickerson for us if he stays healthy.

if Worthy's motor was higher and he didn't disappear in non big time games i wouldn't have an issue taking him in the 1st. but he plays big time every 4-5 games and that's not gonna cut it in the NFL.

Thanks for proving my point?

You're attributing past performance to a program that is night and day different from what it has been in the past 5 years.

And you apparently didn't watch enough MSU games, which is okay, since you're not an MSU fan. But saying Worthy disappears for 4-5 games at a time is simply a lie. I watched every game of his career. He's going to be a solid player in the NFL and is worthy of a 1st round pick.

But again, keep flying that flag. You and about 3 other people...

pricejj
04-23-2012, 11:00 AM
Brandon Spano

30 minutes ago via Twitter.

Just asked Elway about Dre Kirkpatrick. He says "Character is one of the thing we look at Mr. Bowlen wants the Broncos to be looked at...



Thank god. That means no Kirkpatrick in the 1st. Another guy who is solid, but not worth a 1st round draft pick. 4.51 forty is too slow.

TonyR
04-23-2012, 11:01 AM
...Fleener...


This isn't directed at you, price. Just passing along some anti-Fleener stuff I saw yesterday.


Bob McGinn and Tyler Dunne have been churning out info-packed draft prospect rundowns in the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel over the past several days. McGinn is tight with a large number of league evaluators, and gets them to talk about players leading up to the draft. Some conversations are on the record, others off. Some reviews from the scouts are negative, and others are positive.

When reading the Journal-Sentinel‘s tight end rundown, one scout’s observations regarding Stanford tight end Coby Fleener caught our eye.

“He wasn’t even the best tight end on their team,” the scout said. “No. 11 [sophomore Levine Toilolo], that’s the real deal. [Fleener] might be the most overrated guy in the draft. He’s awful as a blocker.”

Blocking isn’t a strength of Fleener’s, and that’s pretty well known. But the scout also expressed skepticism about Fleener’s athleticism, which generated buzz at Stanford’s March 22 Pro Day.

“Despite his workout numbers he’s not really a quick-twitch, dymamic-moving guy. He’s a straight-line, build-up player,” the scout explained. “All these reports about him being an athlete and this and that, they’re assuming that because he ran fast. He’s really just a red-zone, jump-ball player.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/22/scout-says-fleener-might-be-the-most-overrated-guy-in-the-draft/

houghtam
04-23-2012, 11:03 AM
Thank god. That means no Kirkpatrick in the 1st. Another guy who is solid, but not worth a 1st round draft pick. 4.51 forty is too slow.

Not that I'm advocating Kirkpatrick at all, but 40 time is a joke. The guy played well in college for the National Champions. He's got character concerns, but I don't think his skill level is in much doubt by anyone with any real knowledge.

pricejj
04-23-2012, 11:04 AM
This isn't directed at you, price. Just passing along some anti-Fleener stuff I saw yesterday.


[I]Bob McGinn and Tyler Dunne have been churning out info-packed draft prospect rundowns in the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel...[/url]

I seriously doubt the Broncos would pick Fleener due Dreessen and Tamme...but these Wisconsin guys could be running interference in hopes Fleener drops to the Packers.

DBroncos4life
04-23-2012, 11:06 AM
I wonder what happens if Porter is suspended?

pricejj
04-23-2012, 11:06 AM
Not that I'm advocating Kirkpatrick at all, but 40 time is a joke.

40 times aren't a joke for CB's. There is only one starting NFL CB who has a 40 time slower than Kirkpatrick's...Brent Grimes UDFA (ATL), 4.57.

lonestar
04-23-2012, 11:07 AM
This isn't directed at you, price. Just passing along some anti-Fleener stuff I saw yesterday.


Bob McGinn and Tyler Dunne have been churning out info-packed draft prospect rundowns in the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel over the past several days. McGinn is tight with a large number of league evaluators, and gets them to talk about players leading up to the draft. Some conversations are on the record, others off. Some reviews from the scouts are negative, and others are positive.

When reading the Journal-Sentinel‘s tight end rundown, one scout’s observations regarding Stanford tight end Coby Fleener caught our eye.

“He wasn’t even the best tight end on their team,” the scout said. “No. 11 [sophomore Levine Toilolo], that’s the real deal. [Fleener] might be the most overrated guy in the draft. He’s awful as a blocker.”

Blocking isn’t a strength of Fleener’s, and that’s pretty well known. But the scout also expressed skepticism about Fleener’s athleticism, which generated buzz at Stanford’s March 22 Pro Day.

“Despite his workout numbers he’s not really a quick-twitch, dymamic-moving guy. He’s a straight-line, build-up player,” the scout explained. “All these reports about him being an athlete and this and that, they’re assuming that because he ran fast. He’s really just a red-zone, jump-ball player.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/22/scout-says-fleener-might-be-the-most-overrated-guy-in-the-draft/

I have not been involved in most of this thread but am wondering why fleener is being discussed..

we are at this moment loaded with PROVEN TE talent.. that can and will block as well as catch the ball..

and have a couple of fleener types altready on the squad, good receivers not so great blockers..

So someone got all hot and bothered?

houghtam
04-23-2012, 11:09 AM
40 times aren't a joke for CB's. There is only one starting NFL CB who has a 40 time slower than Kirkpatrick's...Brent Grimes (ATL).

Yes they are. It measures straight line speed. It's a joke for every position. Kirkpatrick went up against world-class competition in the SEC and did well. That's all you need to know.

Lestat
04-23-2012, 11:11 AM
i'm sorry but the only real character knock on Kirkpatrick is smoking weed and getting caught at a bad time. not that Elway should give it away if they like him but that's a little extreme to not take a player for.

obviously they do more digging into players than fans but i seriously do not want to end up like the Jags where we don't take better talent because of perceived concerns and end up with giants holes.

pricejj
04-23-2012, 11:14 AM
and have a couple of fleener types altready on the squad, good receivers not so great blockers..


Neither Tamme, nor Dreessen, are anywhere close to Fleener. Fleener is better than Gronkowski.

Tamme was a backup to Dallas Clark. Dreessen is primarily a blocking TE, who is capable of catching.

socalorado
04-23-2012, 11:16 AM
Thank god. That means no Kirkpatrick in the 1st. Another guy who is solid, but not worth a 1st round draft pick. 4.51 forty is too slow.

Agreed. And crappatrick just overrated anyways.

I think the FO has the 1st round between Stephon Gilmore and Doug Martin myself.

Lestat
04-23-2012, 11:17 AM
i wouldn't say he's better than Gronkowski or Graham. he's a Greg Olsen type who can get even better than that and reach the upper echelon like Graham,Gronkowski,Witten,Gonzalez & etc.

DBroncos4life
04-23-2012, 11:17 AM
Neither Tamme, nor Dreessen, are anywhere close to Fleener. Fleener is better than Gronkowski.

Tamme was a backup to Dallas Clark. Dreessen is primarily a blocking TE, who is capable of catching.

Hilarious!

socalorado
04-23-2012, 11:20 AM
Yes they are. It measures straight line speed. It's a joke for every position. Kirkpatrick went up against world-class competition in the SEC and did well. That's all you need to know.

Really? So did Casey Heyward.

Heyward had seven interceptions, 60 tackles, 7.5 tackles for a loss and 10 passes broken up in 2011.
Pure Ballhawk.

Kirkpatrick recorded 30 tackles (24 solo) with nine passes broken up and two forced fumbles in 2011, but did not record an interception.
Overrated.

pricejj
04-23-2012, 11:23 AM
Agreed. And crappatrick just overrated anyways.

I think the FO has the 1st round between Stephon Gilmore and Doug Martin myself.

Fine by me...then trade up for Wolfe or Thompson in the 2nd. Sounds like a plan.

socalorado
04-23-2012, 11:28 AM
Fine by me...then trade up for your Wolfe or Thompson in the 2nd. Sounds like a plan.

Agreed. Get an impact player with no off the field problems that can make an immediate impact as a starter if needed.
Then get value in the 2nd round, where theres plenty of it.

Lestat
04-23-2012, 11:30 AM
Really? So did Casey Heyward.

Heyward had seven interceptions, 60 tackles, 7.5 tackles for a loss and 10 passes broken up in 2011.
Pure Ballhawk.

Kirkpatrick recorded 30 tackles (24 solo) with nine passes broken up and two forced fumbles in 2011, but did not record an interception.
Overrated.

two issues with that. the Vandy defense as a whole had 19 Int's, Bama's had 13.
Bama was playing dominating defense all season long and was barely scored upon. Vandy, not so much.
i get the theory that Kirkpatrick with all his talent should have dominated but he played his role as he should in the Bama D.

socalorado
04-23-2012, 11:35 AM
two issues with that. the Vandy defense as a whole had 19 Int's, Bama's had 13.
Bama was playing dominating defense all season long and was barely scored upon. Vandy, not so much.
i get the theory that Kirkpatrick with all his talent should have dominated but he played his role as he should in the Bama D.

Right. Crappatrick was able to hide all of his deficiencies by playing with a superstar defense filled with legit talent.
Then off the field he smokes weed and gets caught. Awesome.
Just playing his role on and off the field.
Hes a 2nd-3rd round talent and nothing more.

pricejj
04-23-2012, 11:35 AM
Yes they are. It measures straight line speed. It's a joke for every position. Kirkpatrick went up against world-class competition in the SEC and did well. That's all you need to know.

Ok, well you might want to tell that to every GM and coach in the NFL, because 4.5 guys simply don't start at CB.

Kirkpatrick was solid for Alabama, and probably the most physical DB in a long time. He does not have great speed, he is not extremely fluid, and has questionable ball skills. Kirkpatrick would probably be a great SS.

Shananahan
04-23-2012, 11:38 AM
Fleener is better than Gronkowski.
Any chance you could break this one down for us? Just for fun?

Gcver2ver3
04-23-2012, 11:42 AM
Fleener is better than Gronkowski.



This post isnt real life is it?...

bronco militia
04-23-2012, 11:43 AM
Brandon Spano

24 minutes ago via Twitter.

The Broncos draft board was completed on Friday

@BrandonSpano on Twitter · via Twitter


Brandon Spano

35 minutes ago via Twitter.

Just asked Elway if anybody has inquired about their 1st round pick. His response, "not yet."

@BrandonSpano on Twitter · via Twitter


Brandon Spano

30 minutes ago via Twitter.

Just asked Elway about Dre Kirkpatrick. He says "Character is one of the thing we look at Mr. Bowlen wants the Broncos to be looked at...

@BrandonSpano on Twitter · via Twitter



Brandon Spano

26 minutes ago via Twitter.

Elway: "Peyton is not involved in the draft process. He trusts us."

@BrandonSpano on Twitter · via Twitter






:sunshine:

thankgod for twitter

http://thesouthstands.com/board/Smileys/classic/FACEPALM.gif