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View Full Version : Trade Down and Take this Guy


wolf754life
04-14-2012, 11:47 AM
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/profiles/brandon-thompson?id=2532959

Overview

Thompson brings value to the NFL in that he can play both defensive tackle or nose tackle at the next level. With his size and athletic ability, Thompson has been a disruptive force for Clemson. He plays stout against the run and will plug the hole well for an NFL team. He is able to find the ball as a defender and is effective after the snap in making plays in the backfield. He doesn't bring a ton of pass-rush ability, but he will be able to serve as a strong presence up front. He has the talent to warrant a late first or early second-round pick.

Analysis

Strengths
Thompson is an incredible run defender inside. He is consistent in his play and uses his feet to make plays against the run. He comes off the ball quickly and is able to fill gaps well at his size. He also makes plays on the ball carrier. He is a very strong player who knows how to use his hands and disrupt plays in the backfield.

Weaknesses
Thompson tends to be negated by double teams inside. His substandard technique can limit him at times and contributes to his inability to get past those doubles. Though he is stellar against the run, he is limited against the pass, only occasionally making things happen as a rusher.

Chris
04-14-2012, 11:56 AM
Agree. I do. The same. As well. Also.

BroncoMan4ever
04-14-2012, 01:01 PM
How far back? Thompson could very well end up as a late 1st rounder

OBF1
04-14-2012, 01:06 PM
A 1 trick pony as our first pick...No thank you.

gyldenlove
04-14-2012, 01:43 PM
Just get him in the 2nd, no reason to lose out on a chance on guys like Hightower, Konz, Still, Worthy, Kirkpatrick. I would rather ship out a lower pick or two to get up in the 2nd and get him.

ColoradoBuff
04-14-2012, 01:49 PM
does Price agree this pick?

Requiem
04-14-2012, 01:51 PM
This guy doesn't go hard enough. The last thing you want to do in the NFL Draft is make your top pick someone who is only good at one thing. If we want a fatty to stuff the run, we can wait till a few rounds later. No way.

BroncoBuff
04-14-2012, 01:59 PM
Sounds like Carlton Powell.

TonyR
04-14-2012, 02:03 PM
Jeff Legwold says the Broncos have struggled to find defensive line talent in the draft, and his proof is that they've only gotten two future Pro Bowlers in the past 30 years. Pretty compelling stuff, huh?

Well, Legwold holds up the Ravens as a model for success that Denver should strive for.

Anyone care to guess how many Pro Bowl defensive linemen they've drafted in their 16 years of existence? One.

Maybe we should check in on the Steelers. How many Pro Bowl defensive linemen do you think they've drafted in 30 years? Three.

How about the Giants? After all, they are routinely loaded on the line. They must have drafted a ton of Pro Bowl linemen, right? How about four in 30 years?

Today's lesson? Finding talent in the draft is really hard. This does not only apply to the Broncos. The lesson that Pro Bowl selections are a horrible measure for this sort of stuff? That's for another day...


http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/the-daily-lard-4-14-12

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20394144/broncos-have-had-more-misses-than-hits-when

pricejj
04-14-2012, 02:40 PM
does Price agree this pick?

:sunshine: Yeah, that would be fine by me.

1. The only DT's I like in this draft are Cox, Wolfe, and Thompson.

2. Brockers, Reyes and Still (if he stays healthy) are decent, but nothing special.

3. Worthy is just a rotational guy.

4. Poe, Martin, Crick, and Ta'amu are backups.


I would rather pick Kendall Wright or Peter Konz in the 1st, and trade up from #57 for Wolfe or Thompson. I don't think anybody will want to trade up to get the pick at #25.

oubronco
04-14-2012, 03:02 PM
As med has said Martin could be the best DT out of the bunch

Requiem
04-14-2012, 03:08 PM
Martin could also end up being a total turd. Dude screams average.

Hamrob
04-14-2012, 03:17 PM
I would definitely trade back if I were the Broncos...that's if they get the right offer to trade back out of the first.

Thompson
Wolf
Reyes
Worthy

One or more of those 4 will be there between 33-48. If we could trade back, and still get one of these guys, while picking up an extra 2nd round pick...we would be stupid not to do it. Are the guys above, that much worse, than these guys:

Poe
Cox
Brockers
Still

I don't think so. If we trade back to anywhere between 33-48...we will still get 1 of these 8 guys. Hell, we might even get 2 of the 8 if we want them.

Trade, trade, trade!!! We need young talent at DT, CB, LB, & RB!!!

Broncoman13
04-14-2012, 03:19 PM
I think the Broncos should take Wright in the first and then try to maximize DT potential through quantity. Take Thompson, Wolfe, Martin, Ta Amu and if you have a chance, Reyes, Still, or Winn... Get two of those guys and you maximize your chances of their success. Take Worthy in the first (who I really like btw) and you are unlikely to address the position again until the 5th or 6th round.

Give me Wright or Lamar Miller with the 1st. They will have a much more immediate impact on our success.

You can't ignore DT, but you also can't ignore the fact that DTs rarely are productive their rookie years... Yet another reason to take a couple of the middle tiered guys in the 2nd or 3rd round.m

pricejj
04-14-2012, 03:35 PM
As med has said Martin could be the best DT out of the bunch

I respect Med a great deal, but Martin is not that special. He has great footspeed, but is built like a fire hydrant with stubby arms. He can't see what's going on behind the line, and he is easy to turn. His wide body makes it difficult for him to squeeze through traffic to get to the QB. He will make a play every now and then, but his body dimensions really hurt his vision and ability to get off blocks. Martin is a 3rd rounder, backup.

BroncoInferno
04-14-2012, 03:39 PM
I really like Thompson, but he's strictly a run stuffer. Run stuffing DTs are like RBs, a dime a dozen. We already have really good one in Bannan. If you are going to invest a top pick in a DT, it needs to be someone with pass rush potential. I'd be fine with Thompson with our 2nd, but he probably won't last that long. He's too one-dimensional to invest a 1st or high 2nd (if we trade down) on.

Bronco Boy
04-14-2012, 03:40 PM
Isn't Wolfe a better fit as a DE in a 3-4? Not sure if he would work as a DT in a 4-3.

BroncoInferno
04-14-2012, 03:41 PM
Isn't Wolfe a better fit as a DE in a 3-4? Not sure if he would work as a DT in a 4-3.

He's 6'5" 300. Not sure why he couldn't play 4-3 DT but guys with similar size like Worthy can.

pricejj
04-14-2012, 03:44 PM
I really like Thompson, but he's strictly a run stuffer. Run stuffing DTs are like RBs, a dime a dozen. We already have really good one in Bannan. If you are going to invest a top pick in a DT, it needs to be someone with pass rush potential. I'd be fine with Thompson with our 2nd, but he probably won't last that long. He's too one-dimensional to invest a 1st or high 2nd (if we trade down) on.

Hey BroncoInferno, I know you like Wolfe too...I think he will be off the board #48 at the latest (maybe #31) to NE... that sucks, because I was hoping to get him at #57. If NE picks Reyes instead, Pittsburgh will get Wolfe at #56.

Bronco Boy
04-14-2012, 03:46 PM
He's 6'5" 300. Not sure why he couldn't play 4-3 DT but guys with similar size like Worthy can.

I just remember reading something that said he didn't have the anchor strength needed to play inside in a 4-3.

BroncoInferno
04-14-2012, 03:51 PM
Hey BroncoInferno, I know you like Wolfe too...I think he will be off the board #48 at the latest (maybe #31) to NE... that sucks, because I was hoping to get him at #57. If NE picks Reyes instead, Pittsburgh will get Wolfe at #56.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind "reaching" a bit for Wolfe. He's my second favorite DT in the draft after Cox. If we can trade down to the bottom of the 1st or top of the 2nd, I'd be perfectly fine with taking him. We may get killed in post-draft grades for taking him over some of the guys rated higher by the pundits, but I see little downside with him. A non-stop motor and has excellent technique, I don't think there is much chance of him being a bust. Guys like Worthy and Reyes may have more raw talent, but there's a lot of potential downside as well. No one was more productive in this draft at DT than Wolfe.

pricejj
04-14-2012, 03:54 PM
Isn't Wolfe a better fit as a DE in a 3-4? Not sure if he would work as a DT in a 4-3.

If there is any question about Wolfe's ability to play at UT, watch this video. Wolfe says he will "Take you to a place you've never gone", until "snot bubbles come out your nose". He has the size, athletic ability and strength to dominate interior lineman in the NFL. He plays at a different intensity level than any other DT in this draft.

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BroncoInferno
04-14-2012, 03:55 PM
I just remember reading something that said he didn't have the anchor strength needed to play inside in a 4-3.

Eh, I don't really buy that. The guy makes up for some of his deficencies with his non-stop motor and suberb technique. I think he'll work out perfectly fine in a 4-3. Whoever drafts him (hopefully Denver) will not be disappointed. He may not have the upside of some of the other DTs, but I think his floor his higher. You'll get a solid guy, worst case scenario. And I think his athleticism is highly underrated anyway. He ran a 4.94 40 and a 7.26 in the 3 cone drill at the combine, both among the higher result for DTs.

pricejj
04-14-2012, 04:04 PM
...

I would be fine taking him at #25. If we don't, NE will take him at #31. I can guarantee you Belicheat doesn't give a crap what draft experts think of him. Wolfe has much more raw talent than Worthy. Wolfe and Reyes have similar athletic ability...but Wolfe plays with way more intensity.

BroncoInferno
04-14-2012, 04:08 PM
I would be fine taking him at #25. If we don't, NE will take him at #31. I can guarantee you Belicheat doesn't give a crap what draft experts think of him. Wolfe has much more raw talent than Worthy. Wolfe and Reyes have similar athletic ability...but Wolfe plays with way more intensity.

Well, there's been speculation that NE is high on Reyes, so they could take him with one of their 1st rounders. That might give us a chance of landing Wolfe at the end of the 2nd. I find it hard to believe, though, that Wolfe is being as underrated by the actual teams as he is by the Kipers and Mayocks of the world. We would probably have to either take him at #25 or with our pick after a trade down, or else trade up from our 2nd rounder.

pricejj
04-14-2012, 04:54 PM
Well, there's been speculation that NE is high on Reyes, so they could take him with one of their 1st rounders. That might give us a chance of landing Wolfe at the end of the 2nd. I find it hard to believe, though, that Wolfe is being as underrated by the actual teams as he is by the Kipers and Mayocks of the world. We would probably have to either take him at #25 or with our pick after a trade down, or else trade up from our 2nd rounder.

Kiper projects Wolfe to NE at #31 (not Reyes).

Bmore Manning
04-14-2012, 04:57 PM
This guy doesn't go hard enough. The last thing you want to do in the NFL Draft is make your top pick someone who is only good at one thing. If we want a fatty to stuff the run, we can wait till a few rounds later. No way.

That's funny, cause Worthy cant do **** except jump the snap count.

BroncoInferno
04-14-2012, 04:59 PM
Kiper projects Wolfe to NE at #31 (not Reyes).

It wouldn't surprise me. I've just been reading they like Reyes a lot. Kiper projects based on his rankings, not necessarily who teams actually "like." I didn't realize Kiper had Wolfe that highly rated, though. Most pundits are putting him in the 2nd-3rd round area.

BroncoInferno
04-14-2012, 05:00 PM
This guy doesn't go hard enough. The last thing you want to do in the NFL Draft is make your top pick someone who is only good at one thing. If we want a fatty to stuff the run, we can wait till a few rounds later. No way.

I'm a bit surprised you don't like Thompson due to motor, but do like Worthy who has serious motor questions.

Bmore Manning
04-14-2012, 05:06 PM
I'm a bit surprised you don't like Thompson due to motor, but do like Worthy who has serious motor questions.

Bingo! When I first joined I told him Thompson and Chapman were my two favorite DTs, he liked Thompson.. But doesn't like Chapman cause he was hurt! Yet he played half the year hurt and his agent just said he will be healthy for camp.

pricejj
04-14-2012, 05:08 PM
It wouldn't surprise me. I've just been reading they like Reyes a lot. Kiper projects based on his rankings, not necessarily who teams actually "like." I didn't realize Kiper had Wolfe that highly rated, though. Most pundits are putting him in the 2nd-3rd round area.

Kiper projects Wolfe to NE because they have shown interest in him. Wolfe has worked out privately with both New England Pittsburgh. Wolfe and Reyes actually played in the same game this year, when Cincinnati played Connecticut. The stat line:

Derek Wolfe (UT) 10 tackles, 5 TFL's, 2.5 sacks
Kendall Reyes (UT) 4 tackles, 2 TFL's, 0 sacks

The Connecticut guards have faced Kendall Reyes everyday in practice, and we're absolutely dominated by Derek Wolfe.

barryr
04-14-2012, 05:21 PM
You are reading my mind. I want the Broncos to trade down, maybe Philly is an option since they have picks 46 and 51. Broncos trade 25 for both of those picks and take Thompson at 46, and still have 51 and 57 in the 2nd round. Thompson can be just as good as any DT available at 25. I like Reyes if staying at 25, but I don't know if he will be that much better than Thompson and the Broncos could get a RB and CB in rounds 2 if dealing with Philly.

Bmore Manning
04-14-2012, 05:44 PM
You are reading my mind. I want the Broncos to trade down, maybe Philly is an option since they have picks 46 and 51. Broncos trade 25 for both of those picks and take Thompson at 46, and still have 51 and 57 in the 2nd round. Thompson can be just as good as any DT available at 25. I like Reyes if staying at 25, but I don't know if he will be that much better than Thompson and the Broncos could get a RB and CB in rounds 2 if dealing with Philly.

This is exactly what I am hoping for! Presuming none of the studs are there @25 that Denver would want, but someone like Barron is still there.. So Philly would trade.

BroncoInferno
04-14-2012, 06:42 PM
Kiper projects Wolfe to NE because they have shown interest in him. Wolfe has worked out privately with both New England Pittsburgh. Wolfe and Reyes actually played in the same game this year, when Cincinnati played Connecticut. The stat line:

Derek Wolfe (UT) 10 tackles, 5 TFL's, 2.5 sacks
Kendall Reyes (UT) 4 tackles, 2 TFL's, 0 sacks

The Connecticut guards have faced Kendall Reyes everyday in practice, and we're absolutely dominated by Derek Wolfe.

To be fair to Reyes, his numbers were certainly nothing to sneeze at.

MVP-06
04-15-2012, 11:42 AM
Tihis site predicts Ryan Miller as a late 1st, early 2nd rounder? Who in the hell did they hire over there? I can't take any scouting report on here seriously now.

pricejj
04-15-2012, 12:10 PM
To be fair to Reyes, his numbers were certainly nothing to sneeze at.

That's true. I think Reyes will be a solid starter in the NFL. I just think Wolfe is a cut above. In the NFL, as Peyton Manning would tell you, putting in the extra work, is what separates the great players. Wolfe proved that all season long garnering 25 more tackles and 5 more sacks.

Requiem
04-15-2012, 12:38 PM
I'm a bit surprised you don't like Thompson due to motor, but do like Worthy who has serious motor questions.

Thompson is a fine player, but I don't want him to be the first Broncos selection. I like Worthy for a lot of reasons and feel that his "motor" questions are overblown. I think that defensive minded coaches like Fox and Del Rio would be the right situation for a person like him. Overall his skill-set is better than Thompson's and can do more in the NFL and for this team. JMHO.

Bigdawg26
04-15-2012, 12:51 PM
I wouldn't mind taking this guy. To me, it seems like Worthy, Brockers, Still, and Thompson are pretty much the same in terms of talent. I could be wrong though!

Broncoman13
04-15-2012, 01:29 PM
I wouldn't mind taking this guy. To me, it seems like Worthy, Brockers, Still, and Thompson are pretty much the same in terms of talent. I could be wrong though!

Worthy and Still are similar. Brockers offers more potential than all of them, but has a larger bust factor as well. Thompson is a notch below all of them. One trick pony that looks like he will be "just a guy" in the NFL. If I'm going after a plugger I'm going to take the beef and draft Ta'amu.

iforgotmypassword
04-15-2012, 02:11 PM
price..... what changed your mind on Crick????

pricejj
04-15-2012, 04:19 PM
price..... what changed your mind on Crick????

Well, there are a few factors:
1. I watched the Wisconsin game, where he got mandhandled, and gave up on several plays...I started wondering why.
2. I always thought that he needed to be around 300 lbs. to be effective at UT. That's an additional 20 lbs., which would take at least 1 year to achieve.
3. Even though he is tall, he has short arms (32"). It would be difficult for him to get off blocks in the NFL.
4. It would also take time for him to get used to the added weight. His game is all about hustle. Could he do it? Yes, but at what cost to his footspeed?

I think Derek Wolfe is much more likely to contribute right away, and he doesn't have some of the physical limitations that may prevent Crick from becoming a starting UT.

iforgotmypassword
04-15-2012, 07:56 PM
I've done the same flipflop on Cox. Did NOT want him at first, now I would kill for him.

pricejj
04-20-2012, 08:10 AM
Kiper is now mocking Wolfe to the Broncos at #25...

Wolfe is a BEAST.

Bronco Boy
04-20-2012, 08:16 AM
Kiper is now mocking Wolfe to the Broncos at #25...

Wolfe is a BEAST.

That's weird. He's projected anywhere from 2nd-5th depending on where you look. Mayock's probably right in saying late 2nd to early 3rd. Everywhere I read says he'd be better in a 3-4 and would be limited in a 4-3.

pricejj
04-20-2012, 08:28 AM
That's weird. He's projected anywhere from 2nd-5th depending on where you look. Mayock's probably right in saying late 2nd to early 3rd. Everywhere I read says he'd be better in a 3-4 and would be limited in a 4-3.

Wolfe racked up the best stats of any DT in college playing in a 4-3.


1. nfldraftscout ranked Kendall Reyes the 11th best DT 2 months ago.
2. nfldraftscout has Wolfe ranked at 13th best DT for several months.
3. Both Wolfe and Reyes play in the Big East. Wolfe is Big East DPOY.
4. For good reason Reyes has flown up draft boards, Wolfe is a better player.
5. Wolfe had 70 tackles, 9.5 sacks...Reyes had 46 tackles, 4.5 sacks.
6. In a head-to-head matchup, Wolfe had 10 tackles, 2.5 sacks...Reyes had 4 tackles, 0 sacks.
7. Reyes and Wolfe are similar athletically...Wolfe beats him by a little.
8. Wolfe is the most INTENSE DT in the entire draft.
9. Both the Patriots and Steelers are VERY interested in Wolfe.
10. Last week, Kiper mocked Wolfe to the Patriots at #31.

If you are interested in taking Reyes at #25...you should be REAL interested in Derek Wolfe.

Beantown Bronco
04-20-2012, 08:29 AM
A 1 trick pony as our first pick...No thank you.

As opposed to all the zero trick ponies we've made a habit of drafting in the first round the last ten years.

Bronco Boy
04-20-2012, 08:37 AM
Wolfe racked up the best stats of any DT in college playing in a 4-3.


1. nfldraftscout ranked Kendall Reyes the 11th best DT 2 months ago.
2. nfldraftscout has Wolfe ranked at 13th best DT for several months.
3. Both Wolfe and Reyes play in the Big East. Wolfe is Big East DPOY.
4. For good reason Reyes has flown up draft boards, Wolfe is a better player.
5. Wolfe had 70 tackles, 9.5 sacks...Reyes had 46 tackles, 4.5 sacks.
6. In a head-to-head matchup, Wolfe had 10 tackles, 2.5 sacks...Reyes had 4 tackles, 0 sacks.
7. Reyes and Wolfe are similar athletically...Wolfe beats him by a little.
8. Wolfe is the most INTENSE DT in the entire draft.
9. Both the Patriots and Steelers are VERY interested in Wolfe.
10. Last week, Kiper mocked Wolfe to the Patriots at #31.

If you are interested in taking Reyes at #25...you should be REAL interested in Derek Wolfe.

Cool. Still think he goes to a 3-4 team in the 2nd or 3rd.

pricejj
04-20-2012, 08:41 AM
Cool. Still think he goes to a 3-4 team in the 2nd or 3rd.

Don't say I didn't warn ya! :sunshine:

1. Wolfe - BEAST
2. Reyes - Somewhat beastly, but not quite Wolfe
3. Still - Somewhat beastly, injury history, still has turf toe from last year
4. Worthy - 2nd round material

barryr
04-20-2012, 09:12 AM
I also like Wolfe, but I see him better as a 3-4 DE. If the Broncos stay at 25, and Cox and Gilmore are gone, I still believe Reyes is the guy to get if going DL. Kirkpatrick would be a guy I would take over him though, but would be surprised if there at 25.

pricejj
04-20-2012, 09:19 AM
I also like Wolfe, but I see him better as a 3-4 DE. If the Broncos stay at 25, and Cox and Gilmore are gone, I still believe Reyes is the guy to get if going DL. Kirkpatrick would be a guy I would take over him though, but would be surprised if there at 25.

I don't understand how you could promote Reyes over Wolfe in a 4-3. Both players are way too similar in size and athleticism.

The only difference is Wolfe was a better player and Big East DPOY...Reyes came in 2nd.

Come on barryr, come to the light man!

Bmore Manning
04-20-2012, 09:46 AM
I watched Reyes on multiple occasions and he would line up at NT on a fair amount of snaps, in fact he played all over the line NT, UT, DE.. Reyes is very interesting, I love his motor, athleticism, and hustle to chase plays down.. I'm just not sure @25. I would not take Wolfe @25, when he should be there @ 57 if not into the third.

pricejj
04-20-2012, 09:51 AM
I would not take Wolfe @25, when he should be there @ 57 if not into the third.

Wolfe is just as versatile as Reyes, if not more. If the Broncos don't pick Wolfe at #25, New England or Pittsburgh will pick him before #57. Take that to the bank.

I believe NE plans on taking him in the 1st round.

barryr
04-20-2012, 10:49 AM
I don't understand how you could promote Reyes over Wolfe in a 4-3. Both players are way too similar in size and athleticism.

The only difference is Wolfe was a better player and Big East DPOY...Reyes came in 2nd.

Come on barryr, come to the light man!

I just think teams are going to view Wolfe more as a 3-4 DE, mainly because he needs more strength, especially in the lower body. I like Wolfe like I stated though, he has a nonstop motor, but his perceived lack of elite athleticism is what has kept his name from being talked about that much. For the Bronco defense, I think Reyes is the better fit of the 2, but I wouldn't mind having both.

pricejj
04-20-2012, 11:03 AM
I just think teams are going to view Wolfe more as a 3-4 DE, mainly because he needs more strength, especially in the lower body. I like Wolfe like I stated though, he has a nonstop motor, but his perceived lack of elite athleticism is what has kept his name from being talked about that much. For the Bronco defense, I think Reyes is the better fit of the 2, but I wouldn't mind having both.

Reyes pushed up 3 more bench reps (36), jumped 1" higher (34 1/2"), broadjumped 5" longer (9'05"), and had a .06s faster forty, but Wolfe had a 0.17s faster 3-cone. They both have the same length arms (33 1/4"). Both are so similar athletically. Wolfe has better production.

These guys are so close...both are pretty darn good prospects.