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View Full Version : Cecil Lammey tweeting he's hearing Broncos may go RB Round 1, DT Round 2


Carmelo15
04-09-2012, 10:26 PM
Cecil Lammey ‏ @cecillammey file this under #dontbesurprised if #broncos take RB in first-round, Lamar Miller may be tops on their list #nfldraft
Cecil Lammey ‏ @cecillammey sounds like if he can stay healthy Knowshon Moreno will make #broncos roster, they see him as good 3rd down RB, only making $850k this yr

Cecil Lammey ‏ @cecillammey the #broncos know Willis McGahee will need to be replaced eventually, 1st rd RB could groom behind him in '12 take over as lead in '13
Cecil Lammey ‏ @cecillammey personally I think DT class is top heavy and a big need for rd1, #broncos may feel there's value to be had in 2nd rd #nfldraft
Cecil Lammey ‏ @cecillammey @salentoq just telling you what I've heard, and remember Foxy drafted JStew in rd1 when he already had DWill w #panthers
Cecil Lammey ‏ @cecillammey @RumfordJohnny McGahee not a fit for stretch play, Moreno not full time RB, they are looking for RB1 may go 1st round to do it
Cecil Lammey ‏ @cecillammey @wusnapper they seem to have an eye on value DTs in 2nd or 3rd round, I think 1st round is where you take a DT but they may not
Cecil Lammey ‏ @cecillammey @tawheed88 it sounds like they prefer Miller over Martin or Wilson, bigger gamebreaker than Martin, more instinctive than Wilson
Cecil Lammey ‏ @cecillammey @Skirson88 I think Kirkpatrick is the exception to RB/DT move in 1st, if he's there he's the pick

Sounds like he's hearing Lamar Miller is our target at #25 unless Kirkpatrick falls to us. Broncos seem to think there is better value at DT in round 2. Since Cox and Brockers will almost certainly be gone at #25, I tend to agree with them. Lamar Miller is a superior prospect than Still and Worthy. I have been hoping we would get him for a long time now. He is a dynamic gamebreaker back and we definitely need that. He fits our team better than Martin and Wilson. He's the best with Peyton Manning the stretch play and he's also the best fit for zone blocking as his biggest strength is running to a open space with his elite speed, rather than running to certain hole with power. Color me pleased. Long Live Clinton Portis.

SoCalBronco
04-09-2012, 10:28 PM
Reach. He's fast but he's also soft and doesn't give you much between the tackles. He needed another year in college.

HAT
04-09-2012, 10:29 PM
There is no chance....none, that Denver drafts a RB at 25.

Drunken.Broncoholic
04-09-2012, 10:31 PM
A 1st round RB needs to be groomed? Ridiculous talk. Cecil is failing on this one.

BowlenBall
04-09-2012, 10:34 PM
Fearless prediction -- not only will we NOT take Lamar Miller in the 1st, he'll be available at our pick in the 2nd. The fact that you're hearing this is probably a smokescreen from the team, hoping someone panics and takes Miller earlier than they should, and pushing down our real target to us in either the 1st or the 2nd....

Mark it down, and bump this post if I'm wrong....

bronco militia
04-09-2012, 10:34 PM
has cecil ever been right with his pre draft rumors?

HAT
04-09-2012, 10:35 PM
I voted other....For Trent in the 1st & Cox in the 2nd.

Poll ? was preferred choice after all.

Carmelo15
04-09-2012, 10:36 PM
Fearless prediction -- not only will we NOT take Lamar Miller in the 1st, he'll be available at our pick in the 2nd. The fact that you're hearing this is probably a smokescreen from the team, hoping someone panics and takes Miller earlier than they should, and pushing down our real target to us in either the 1st or the 2nd....

Mark it down, and bump this post if I'm wrong....

Lamar Miller is a Pro-Bowl caliber RB. Bump this post if I'M wrong

Tombstone RJ
04-09-2012, 10:38 PM
Lamar Miller is fast so he's got that going for him... I'd love Kirkpatric more though..

Drunken.Broncoholic
04-09-2012, 10:43 PM
Lamar Miller is a Pro-Bowl caliber RB. Bump this post if I'M wrong

Pro bowl caliber RBs don't need to sit and be groomed.

theAPAOps5
04-09-2012, 10:47 PM
There is no chance....none, that Denver drafts a RB at 25.

Just quoting this to save for later

BowlenBall
04-09-2012, 10:49 PM
Lamar Miller is a Pro-Bowl caliber RB. Bump this post if I'M right

^5 FYP

If he makes the pro bowl at any point in his career, I'll definitely dig this thread up and give you your due.

I just don't see it with Miller -- one year starter, injury history... meh. He's 6th on my board this year. If the Broncos took him in the 3rd, I'd be intrigued because of his upside, but he's no Clinton Portis.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-09-2012, 10:55 PM
He sure hits full speed quick

Carmelo15
04-09-2012, 10:56 PM
I watched every Canes game this year and this guy really reminds me of backs that are pro-bowl level players: Darren McFadden and LeSean McCoy. But his best comparison is Clinton Portis. If anyone can appreciate that kind of talent it should be Broncos fans. If another poster calls him Tatum Bell I'm gonna have to slap somebody.

pricejj
04-09-2012, 11:14 PM
that would be pretty exciting...

Chris
04-09-2012, 11:21 PM
Gotta think Elway believes we need THAT back to get to a championship.

Houshyamama
04-09-2012, 11:29 PM
There is no chance....none, that Denver drafts a RB at 25.

Thanks for the jinx

HAT
04-09-2012, 11:35 PM
Just quoting this to save for later

They're taking Crick...jj told me so last month. He hasn't changed his mind daily has he ?

Bigdawg26
04-09-2012, 11:36 PM
Wow! I guess as long as we grab a DT in the first two rounds I'm OK. I thought the broncos were going to go DT 1st then RB in the second anyways. But I'm surprised the broncos have been pretty quiet about the draft this year. Normally, we hear something about what they are looking at by now!

BroncoMan4ever
04-09-2012, 11:38 PM
i hate that tweet of groom a back behind McGahee to take over in 2013.

RB is the only position on the offense where guys don't really need to be groomed to eventually take over. if you take a RB you expect him to contribute from day 1. and if we are going to go after a RB we have to pay really well, we might as well trade for Stewart with a 2nd or 3rd round pick and get a for sure player. outside of Richardson in the 1st, the rest of the backs in this class are 2nd rate, so i think it would be a huge waste to draft a RB in the 1st. Martin in the 2nd, Turbin in the 3rd and i have no problem, but beyond Richardson none of the backs are 1st round worthy.

DarkHorse
04-09-2012, 11:55 PM
Well, in this video he's the anti-Moreno. Dude gets the ball and immediately heads upfield. Moreno still hasn't figured that out


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7dxPzUBoi4

errand
04-10-2012, 12:19 AM
There is no chance....none, that Denver drafts a RB at 25.

Just like there was no chance the broncos would -

Win division

Make playoffs

Win playoff game

Sign Peyton Manning

Trade Tim Tebow

I think this team is definitely one you can't say that about....

lonestar
04-10-2012, 12:46 AM
Let's hope they do not waste a top pick on a RB as They are a dime a dozen in the ZBS.

I'm guessing he has not got the memo that we are paying manning, 2 TEs a new WR close to 30 million this coming year. Not to mention DT, Decker and MaGahee.

Time to build the defense we have so lacked for the last 20 years.

KevinJames
04-10-2012, 01:20 AM
Wouldn't be mad if we got a RB in the first round

Doug Martin looks like Ray Rice on film so I would love that.

Lamar Miller is a burner so I would be okay with that.

David Wilson is also a burner and I love his toughness the heart he shows on the field so I would also be cool with this.

DT I want is Brandon Thompson I think hes severely underrated should be a first round pick but slides because theres more hype around Cox, Poe, Brockers, and even Still. Thompson is 2nd best DT in this draft after Cox.

This is honestly the best RB class since 2008 IMO I think Martin, Miller, Richardson, and Wilson should all be first round picks, but based on people's opinion about the RB position they wont be but all 4 are worthy of being selected after pick 15 in the first round.

RunSilentRunDeep
04-10-2012, 05:28 AM
I'm hearing things too (the voices in my head). Expect the Broncos to trade back 5-8 spots, still pick up a top DT, then go BPA the rest of the way.

I'm also hearing (from history itself) that taking a developmental QB outside the first round is flushing the pick down the toilet.

Bacchus
04-10-2012, 06:09 AM
Wow! I guess as long as we grab a DT in the first two rounds I'm OK. I thought the broncos were going to go DT 1st then RB in the second anyways. But I'm surprised the broncos have been pretty quiet about the draft this year. Normally, we hear something about what they are looking at by now!

This doesmake sense. The Broncos could get the best RB in the draft at #25. Only two RBs will be selected by the #25 pick so they may feel that Lamar or whoever else they are targeting is exactly what they need. It is obvious that Moreno is a 3rd down back and McGhee is older and not fast enough for this offense. I do not know enough about this draft as far as what the quality of DT is available at their 2nd round pick so I am leary.

Personally, I would like the see DTs at #1 and #2 picks just to solidify the position, and get a RB in the 4th but I would not be upset if the Broncos feel they can get a franchise RB at #25.

BroncoInferno
04-10-2012, 06:46 AM
I disagree with Cecil that the DT class is top heavy and that round 1 is where you get a DT. I can't for the life of me see any significant difference between a guy like Derek Wolfe and a guy like Worthy. Wolfe was more productive, produced over a three year period, improved every year, has better technique, has similar combine numbers, similar or better size (6'5" 300), and he will likely be available at the end of the 2nd round. That said, if they want a RB I think the value would be better if they can trade down to the end of the 1st or beginning of the 2nd. If they can't find a trading partner, I prefer both Doug Martin and David Wilson over Miller. But I like Miller OK.

Agamemnon
04-10-2012, 06:49 AM
An RB is much more likely to have an immediate impact than a DT, so I won't be surprised by this one bit. You people seem to be forgetting that we are in "win now" mode.

Dedhed
04-10-2012, 07:05 AM
David Wilson>Lamar Miller>Doug Martin

yerner
04-10-2012, 07:11 AM
bpa

cmhargrove
04-10-2012, 07:17 AM
My main problem here is that I am pretty darn sure of the value ofthe top DT's. Many of these guys are players, and instant contributors. This RB class is pretty deep through rounds 3-4 and I have a hard time figuring out who is the best (for the Broncos) after Richardson. There are excellent speed backs, receiving backs, blocking backs, power backs. Some of them look great on highlights while others just produced touchdowns. Now that we have Manning, none of us know how they are going to use the RB's this year. Both Fox and Del Rio shove the run down your throat - will we still try to do that? If so, we need another power back to replace Willis. Or, do we now need the best all purpose blocking back with our new $96 million dollar toy?

I just think that if our desire is to draft a high pick RB, we would be better off trading back if possible. Most of these guys will still be available in the top of the second round. We could meet the same team needs in the second round and pick up an extra starter.

Agamemnon
04-10-2012, 07:32 AM
David Wilson>Lamar Miller>Doug Martin

Gotta agree. Miller is faster, but Wilson seems like the better all-around back.

TheReverend
04-10-2012, 07:32 AM
Lamars a bitch.

Kirk and Devon in 2012.

houghtam
04-10-2012, 07:38 AM
They're taking Crick...jj told me so last month. He hasn't changed his mind daily has he ?

How would anyone know, the thread gets deleted every time I need to figure out what damned DT we should draft.

ghwk
04-10-2012, 07:40 AM
Silly season round 2 to borrow a term from F-1

ghwk
04-10-2012, 07:46 AM
While a priority I think the FO is thinking our D will be on the field far less next year with Manning so you go offense first hoping the O will be chewing up clock time and scoring with the D not having to be as critical a need from a draft standpoint. It worked for Indy for years, crappy D, but you can't win superbowls that way.

Pick Six
04-10-2012, 07:54 AM
I've never heard of Billy Winn, but I love the name...:thumbsup:

Beantown Bronco
04-10-2012, 08:15 AM
The Broncos could get the best RB in the draft at #25. Only two RBs will be selected by the #25 pick

Bacchus, read this back to yourself a few times until you see the problem with it.

Bmore Manning
04-10-2012, 08:32 AM
Wouldn't be mad if we got a RB in the first round

Doug Martin looks like Ray Rice on film so I would love that.

Lamar Miller is a burner so I would be okay with that.

David Wilson is also a burner and I love his toughness the heart he shows on the field so I would also be cool with this.

DT I want is Brandon Thompson I think hes severely underrated should be a first round pick but slides because theres more hype around Cox, Poe, Brockers, and even Still. Thompson is 2nd best DT in this draft after Cox.

This is honestly the best RB class since 2008 IMO I think Martin, Miller, Richardson, and Wilson should all be first round picks, but based on people's opinion about the RB position they wont be but all 4 are worthy of being selected after pick 15 in the first round.

I am so big on Thompson, but I have Brockers and Cox above him only!

prunch
04-10-2012, 08:39 AM
The idea of building the offense does go with Elway's idea of you need dominant on one side of the ball and very good on the other to make a championship team. He stated this when he first came on a VP.

After getting Manning, you gotta bet we are going for dominant O with a very good D.

25 looks like a bad spot for DT. It seems like there is no "sure bet" at that spot, no game changer whereas we could pick up a game changing WR or RB in that area. I would love if we drop back to the early 2nd and pick up an extra 3rd for dropping back. I think the value DTs, RBs are in the 2nd/3rd and we do not lose much by dropping back.

As much as I feel the "we need DT" thing, it is scary and for the most part unrealistic to expect a rookie (or 2) to just come in and give us an average to above average D-Line. I think we still have a patchwork DT setup for this year and wait for this years draftees to hopefully come up to speed by next year.

Bacchus
04-10-2012, 08:41 AM
Bacchus, read this back to yourself a few times until you see the problem with it.

Just because a RB is drafted ahead of the Broncos pick does not mean that is the best RB for Denver.

Carmelo15
04-10-2012, 08:41 AM
Ideally I think the Broncos could move back 5-7 spots in the 1st and pick up a late 3rd. We could still take Miller and then use that extra 3rd or our own 3rd to move up in round 2 so that we can get a guy like Brandon Thompson. I highly doubt he's there at 57. But if we can move up about 13-16 spots we may be able to get him while still having a 3rd round pick. I would LOVE to get Sean Spence with that late 3rd by the way.

Denver724
04-10-2012, 08:44 AM
They talk about grooming a back for 2013. Jonathan Stewart is a FA next year. Below is a link to the Top 50 2013 FA's from the NFL Trade Rumors website.

http://nfltraderumors.co/nfltr-features2013-nfl-free-agents/

And not one Bronco is on it. I guess Clady signed a 6 year deal and not a 5 year deal like Long and Brown.

Heyneck
04-10-2012, 08:44 AM
A 1st round RB needs to be groomed? Ridiculous talk. Cecil is failing on this one.

That's exactly what he did with JStew. He picked him in the 1st round when they had DWill. Fox is still fixated on running the ball. That's his MO. Will he pass way more?! Hell yeah!!! But he still believes in a heavy 2 back set!!! I don't like this idea... but there is enough history there that you can't rule out the possibility.

Kaylore
04-10-2012, 08:46 AM
http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTMxNDg5NzgzOF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNjU5NTM3NQ@@._ V1._SY317_CR3,0,214,317_.jpg

houghtam
04-10-2012, 08:50 AM
Ideally I think the Broncos could move back 5-7 spots in the 1st and pick up a late 3rd. We could still take Miller and then use that extra 3rd or our own 3rd to move up in round 2 so that we can get a guy like Brandon Thompson. I highly doubt he's there at 57. But if we can move up about 13-16 spots we may be able to get him while still having a 3rd round pick. I would LOVE to get Sean Spence with that late 3rd by the way.

I think we should trade down 5 spots and pick up a third. Then trade down another 5 spots and pick up a third. Then trade down another 5 spots and pick up a third. Then trade down another 5 spots and pick up a third. Then trade down another 5 spots and pick up a third. Then trade down another 5 spots and pick up a third. Then trade down another 5 spots and pick up a third.

Then by the third we just have the whole round to draft guys.

Yep, that's what I think we should do.

Trade down.

Beantown Bronco
04-10-2012, 08:51 AM
Just because a RB is drafted ahead of the Broncos pick does not mean that is the best RB for Denver.

I understand that. But the odds are not good and where do you draw the line? Think about it. One could just as easily say it about any position.

"The Broncos could get the best xx in the draft at #25. Only two xx's will be selected by the #25 pick." I remember one time when the Broncos got the best RB in the draft at 196th overall.

Bmore Manning
04-10-2012, 08:52 AM
So I mentioned I read an article that talked about Denver being a ZBS, and lonestar just referred to the ZBS. Does anyone have confirmation on this one way or another?

If they are ZBS, I do not see the value at going RB in the first round, most RBs excel in ZBS. Also with years of following Peyton, I know he wil make every offensive piece on this team better. Peyton has never had a defense, I think if you build the defense up, this team would be scary. Offense wins games, but defense wins championships!

I personally wouldn't take a #2 or even #3 slot WR early in the draft. Peyton will enhance everyone around him. Same is to be said about a RB in the first. Look at Addai, Rhodes, Brown, James (Not Edge), Heart... Peyton makes everyone around him better, and unless it's Trent Richardson, and if they are in the ZBS, no need to go that direction early...

TheReverend
04-10-2012, 08:53 AM
http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTMxNDg5NzgzOF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNjU5NTM3NQ@@._ V1._SY317_CR3,0,214,317_.jpg

http://www.skunkworx.org/goa/games/s/spy-hunter/nes/screenshots/smoke-screen.gif

Rohirrim
04-10-2012, 08:57 AM
These days you don't take a RB in the first round unless they're ****ing stupendous.

Bacchus
04-10-2012, 09:13 AM
I understand that. But the odds are not good and where do you draw the line? Think about it. One could just as easily say it about any position.

"The Broncos could get the best xx in the draft at #25. Only two xx's will be selected by the #25 pick." I remember one time when the Broncos got the best RB in the draft at 196th overall.

If the Broncos feel the best RB is still on the board they should draft him. That is all I'm saying.

Rohirrim
04-10-2012, 09:21 AM
If the Broncos feel the best RB is still on the board they should draft him. That is all I'm saying.

Not me. I don't think the position has as much value as DT, OLB, S, WR, etc. In fact, it's pretty far down there. If we had a shot at Trent that would be another thing. There are plenty of RBs in the later rounds who will fill in just fine. I really hope this draft is predominantly defense.

ludo21
04-10-2012, 09:26 AM
i would love a RB with the first pick!

pricejj
04-10-2012, 09:37 AM
This is not a great year for fast RB's. Take a look back at 2008.

2008 Running Backs:

Chris Johnson 4.24
Darren McFadden 4.33
Jamaal Charles 4.38
R. Mendenhall 4.41
Ray Rice 4.42
Felix Jones 4.44
Matt Forte 4.44
J. Stewart 4.46



McFadden, Mendenhall, Stewart, Johnson, and Jones were all taken in the 1st round. Forte and Rice were taken in the 2nd. Charles in the 3rd.


Lamar Miller 4.40
LaMichael James 4.45
Isaiah Pead 4.47
T. Richardson 4.48
David Wilson 4.49
Bernard Pierce 4.49
Robert Turbin 4.50
Doug Martin 4.55
Chris Polk 4.57


Note that Miller and James are the only guys that are faster than the slowest back (Stewart) from 2008.

pricejj
04-10-2012, 09:40 AM
People like to compare Lamar Miller to Clinton Portis. Clinton Portis ran a 4.26 forty and was taken in the 2nd round. Lamar Miller runs a 4.4.

Dedhed
04-10-2012, 09:44 AM
This is not a great year for fast RB's. Take a look back at 2008.

2008 Running Backs:

Darren McFadden 4.33
R. Mendenhall 4.41
J. Stewart 4.46
Chris Johnson 4.24
Felix Jones 4.44
Jamaal Charles 4.38
Ray Rice 4.42
Matt Forte 4.44


McFadden, Mendenhall, Stewart, Johnson, and Jones were all taken in the 1st round. Forte and Rice were taken in the 2nd. Charles in the 3rd.


T. Richardson 4.48
Doug Martin 4.55
David Wilson 4.49
Lamar Miller 4.40
Chris Polk 4.57
Isaiah Pead 4.47
LaMichael James 4.45
Bernard Pierce 4.49
Robert Turbin 4.50


Note that Miller and James are the only guys that are faster than the slowest back (Stewart) from 2008.Note that Terrell Davis is slower than every one of those backs.

pricejj
04-10-2012, 09:51 AM
Note that Terrell Davis is slower than every one of those backs.

Exactly, and he was a 6th round draft pick...even better reason to not draft an RB in the 1st round. If the Broncos really want to develop an RB for 2013, why don't they just sign Jonathan Stewart as a FA in 2013? Two birds, one stone.

A 1B RB isn't going to get many reps in a Manning offense anyway. The Broncos didn't sign Manning to hand the ball off. McGahee will do just fine as the feature back for 2012.

BroncoBen
04-10-2012, 09:52 AM
The one thing I keep reading or hearing is that there is not much difference in the DTs coming out this year. That no one really stands out above the rest, but there are bunch of them so finding one in the 3rd and 4th rounds shouldn't be much of a problem.

That is why to me I can see the Broncos going WR and RB with the first two picks.

lolcopter
04-10-2012, 09:53 AM
The fan base always bitches and moans about DT, but I can totally see RB in R1

Captain 'Dre
04-10-2012, 10:06 AM
Lammey says Magahee "will need to be replaced eventually"?

Pfffft!

Who doesn't need to be replaced eventually?

Captain 'Dre
04-10-2012, 10:10 AM
People like to compare Lamar Miller to Clinton Portis. Clinton Portis ran a 4.26 forty and was taken in the 2nd round. Lamar Miller runs a 4.4.

Was Portis wearing JetPack?

pricejj
04-10-2012, 10:13 AM
The fan base always b****es and moans about DT, but I can totally see RB in R1

I don't think any of those RB's are better than Willis McGahee (11th overall in yards). Drafting an average RB in the 1st round and giving him 7-10 touches per game doesn't make any sense.

Beantown Bronco
04-10-2012, 10:16 AM
I don't think any of those RB's are better than Willis McGahee (11th overall in yards).

or Jonathan Stewart, who we could probably get for a 3rd rounder.

pricejj
04-10-2012, 10:16 AM
The fan base always b****es and moans about DT, but I can totally see RB in R1

I don't think any of those RB's are better than Willis McGahee (11th overall in yards). Drafting an average RB in the 1st round and giving him 7-10 touches per game doesn't make any sense.


Was Portis wearing JetPack?

No...and it was after the trade.

"Portis demonstrated his speed during the 2006 Redskins training camp, running a 4.26 second 40-yard dash."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Portis

SonOfLe-loLang
04-10-2012, 10:24 AM
I don't think any of those RB's are better than Willis McGahee (11th overall in yards). Drafting an average RB in the 1st round and giving him 7-10 touches per game doesn't make any sense.




No...and it was after the trade.

"Portis demonstrated his speed during the 2006 Redskins training camp, running a 4.26 second 40-yard dash."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Portis

I wouldnt necessarily assume this is 1) accurate or 2) fact

razorwire77
04-10-2012, 10:26 AM
Short of some sort of unexpected Trent Richardson free-fall, I'd be shocked if Denver goes RB in round one. If there is a run on DT's and the 1st round graded guys are gone by 25, I think there is going to be much better value at CB, interior lineman and possibly even WR. Address RB with a Ronnie Hillman type pick using the Tebow 4th rounder.

Captain 'Dre
04-10-2012, 10:27 AM
I wouldnt necessarily assume this is 1) accurate or 2) fact

...or (3) not complete BS! Ha!

Taco John
04-10-2012, 10:27 AM
Lammey says Magahee "will need to be replaced eventually"?

Pfffft!

Who doesn't need to be replaced eventually?

He's right though. McGahee is going to want more money (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20097032?source=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dp-sports-broncos+%28Denver+Post%3A+Sports%3A+Broncos%29) if he does well. He's making $2 million this year, and current franchise tag money has a runningback making close to $8 million. McGahee is going to want at least $4 million, I'd think, if he has another probowl season.

As much as I don't like the idea of drafting a runningback in an early round this year, it might be something we have to bite the bullet and do. I'd rather see us draft Peter Konz or James Brown.

MVP-06
04-10-2012, 10:36 AM
I don't think any of those RB's are better than Willis McGahee (11th overall in yards). Drafting an average RB in the 1st round and giving him 7-10 touches per game doesn't make any sense.




No...and it was after the trade.

"Portis demonstrated his speed during the 2006 Redskins training camp, running a 4.26 second 40-yard dash."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Portis

So Portis could run step or step with Deion Sanders? That's laughable. Some idiot reporter with a stop watch.

maher_tyler
04-10-2012, 10:41 AM
Exactly, and he was a 6th round draft pick...even better reason to not draft an RB in the 1st round. If the Broncos really want to develop an RB for 2013, why don't they just sign Jonathan Stewart as a FA in 2013? Two birds, one stone.

A 1B RB isn't going to get many reps in a Manning offense anyway. The Broncos didn't sign Manning to hand the ball off. McGahee will do just fine as the feature back for 2012.

Just cause ONE guy ended up working out, doesn't mean every guy will. How many 6th round RB's are starters right now??

McGahee was banged up pretty much all year..if we plan on relying on him, we're in trouble.

Pick Six
04-10-2012, 10:47 AM
Wait. I'm going to go tweet that the Broncos are going to draft a long snapper with the first pick...:garcia:

maher_tyler
04-10-2012, 10:48 AM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ZVoKjbx3QC4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Seems to run between the tackles just fine...this is exactly what this offense needs!

CEH
04-10-2012, 10:51 AM
Clinton Portis while in Denver was putting up HOF numbers and wanted to be paid like as such. Washington obliged.

I have Denver selecting RB and DT with the first two picks I'm just not sure the order. I think the better RBs will go before #57 yet still have some quality DTs available 2nd and 3rd round

I still am holding out hope for a CB/RB/DT first 3 rounds with maybe a DT and RB being selected both in round #2

Beantown Bronco
04-10-2012, 10:52 AM
Seems to run between the tackles just fine...this is exactly what this offense needs!

It's a highlight reel. If all you got to see was a cherry picked set of the best plays of Knowshon's career, you'd wonder why we were even talking about bringing in a RB.

pricejj
04-10-2012, 10:54 AM
Just cause ONE guy ended up working out, doesn't mean every guy will. How many 6th round RB's are starters right now??

McGahee was banged up pretty much all year..if we plan on relying on him, we're in trouble.

Not in the 1st round...not this year...none of the backs are that special.

houghtam
04-10-2012, 11:04 AM
So Portis could run step or step with Deion Sanders? That's laughable. Some idiot reporter with a stop watch.

Portis' speed was well-documented.

He ran a 4.42 at the combine in 2002. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=33967&draftyear=2002&genpos=RB

After that he ran in the low 4.3s in his pro day. http://cnnsi.com/football/2002/draft/players/15163.html

I remember hearing about the 4.26 time in 2006 and not being surprised. Portis was a burner.

lonestar
04-10-2012, 11:17 AM
Portis' speed was well-documented.

He ran a 4.42 at the combine in 2002. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=33967&draftyear=2002&genpos=RB

After that he ran in the low 4.3s in his pro day. http://cnnsi.com/football/2002/draft/players/15163.html

I remember hearing about the 4.26 time in 2006 and not being surprised. Portis was a burner.

but he was and is a moron..

RB's are a dime a dozen lets hope that in Manning's passing offense we will not waste big money or picks for one..

We need a big back that can get the tough yards and since a passed ball goes faster than a running ball I'll bet most of our yards come that way..

there is lots of congestion on the LOS between OL, DL, TE, LB and blocking backs could be as many as 15 people a RB has to get past for space.. a WR, TE or slot guy one..

Y'all do the math.. Path of least resistance is what Manning is good at....

We have already brought in 1 WR, 2 TEs to pair with manning.

Yes Magahee is not going to be around many more years. The average RB has a usefull life of less than 4 years, DT 10-15. Which are you going to get the most bang for your buck..

Agamemnon
04-10-2012, 11:18 AM
This is not a great year for fast RB's. Take a look back at 2008.

2008 Running Backs:

Chris Johnson 4.24
Darren McFadden 4.33
Jamaal Charles 4.38
R. Mendenhall 4.41
Ray Rice 4.42
Felix Jones 4.44
Matt Forte 4.44
J. Stewart 4.46



McFadden, Mendenhall, Stewart, Johnson, and Jones were all taken in the 1st round. Forte and Rice were taken in the 2nd. Charles in the 3rd.


Lamar Miller 4.40
LaMichael James 4.45
Isaiah Pead 4.47
T. Richardson 4.48
David Wilson 4.49
Bernard Pierce 4.49
Robert Turbin 4.50
Doug Martin 4.55
Chris Polk 4.57


Note that Miller and James are the only guys that are faster than the slowest back (Stewart) from 2008.

It's certainly not a bad year. I mean in 2009, barely any backs cracked 4.5 at all. 40 times in the 4.4-4.5 range are generally considered quite good for the position, while not qualifying as true burners. Lamar Miller is the only back in this draft close to being a true burner, and we probably can get him if we want him.

Agamemnon
04-10-2012, 11:19 AM
but he was and is a moron..

RB's are a dime a dozen lets hope that in Manning's passing offense we will not waste big money or picks for one..

We need a big back that can get the tough yards and since a passed ball goes faster than a running ball I'll bet most of our yards come that way..

there is lots of congestion on the LOS between OL, DL, TE, LB and blocking backs could be as many as 15 people a RB has to get past for space.. a WR, TE or slot guy one..

Y'all do the math.. Path of least resistance is what Manning is good at....

We have already brought in 1 WR, 2 TEs to pair with manning.

Yes Magahee is not going to be around many more years. The average RB has a usefull life of less than 4 years, DT 10-15. Which are you going to get the most bang for your buck..

LOL at the notion that the average career of a DT is 10-15 years...

Requiem
04-10-2012, 11:29 AM
Like the U in the 80s baby. COME ON DOWN MILLER. BOSS BALLER!!!!

lonestar
04-10-2012, 11:34 AM
LOL at the notion that the average career of a DT is 10-15 years...

How many DT are around after 10 years.. then find a 10 year RB.

I suspect you will see many more of the former than the latter..

In any case most RBs are toast at 30.. not so with DL.. they rarely lose that step they never had..

We need DT much more than we need rb's that in a ZBS almost anyone that can make one cut can be successful..

Play2win
04-10-2012, 11:42 AM
The idea of building the offense does go with Elway's idea of you need dominant on one side of the ball and very good on the other to make a championship team. He stated this when he first came on a VP.

After getting Manning, you gotta bet we are going for dominant O with a very good D.

25 looks like a bad spot for DT. It seems like there is no "sure bet" at that spot, no game changer whereas we could pick up a game changing WR or RB in that area. I would love if we drop back to the early 2nd and pick up an extra 3rd for dropping back. I think the value DTs, RBs are in the 2nd/3rd and we do not lose much by dropping back.

As much as I feel the "we need DT" thing, it is scary and for the most part unrealistic to expect a rookie (or 2) to just come in and give us an average to above average D-Line. I think we still have a patchwork DT setup for this year and wait for this years draftees to hopefully come up to speed by next year.

I think, more than anything, we just need a bunch of big bodies in the middle. So, dropping back and just picking all big dudes in the middle might be a wise play. Turn a weakness into a strength.

maher_tyler
04-10-2012, 11:42 AM
Not in the 1st round...not this year...none of the backs are that special.

When is he projected to go? We need a guy with some speed and makes one cut and gets up field. He seems to do that very well. He wouldn't be the starter and would be splitting carries with Moreno most likely..until Moreno gets hurt. It'd be nice having a guy back there that has the ability to take it the distance on any given play...right now we don't have that.

Requiem
04-10-2012, 11:45 AM
When is he projected to go? We need a guy with some speed and makes one cut and gets up field. He seems to do that very well. He wouldn't be the starter and would be splitting carries with Moreno most likely..until Moreno gets hurt. It'd be nice having a guy back there that has the ability to take it the distance on any given play...right now we don't have that.

Miller and Wilson are fighting for the top RB position after Richardson. Whenever one of the next ones get snagged (Miller/Wilson/Martin) -- the run is going to start. I am guessing Denver feels comfortable that a DT will be available @ 57 and likes the value better there as opposed to something else. I like Miller a lot, but at #25 that is a reach. Denver can do better than that. They may as well trade down. I'd value Miller as a 2A/2B selection right now. Not a first rounder at all.

Agamemnon
04-10-2012, 11:45 AM
How many DT are around after 10 years.. then find a 10 year RB.

I suspect you will see many more of the former than the latter..

In any case most RBs are toast at 30.. not so with DL.. they rarely lose that step they never had..

We need DT much more than we need rb's that in a ZBS almost anyone that can make one cut can be successful..

I didn't say DT's don't have longer careers than RB's. I was laughing at the notion that they average 10-15 years.

houghtam
04-10-2012, 12:03 PM
BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH

Try reading the thread before commenting from now on. This is the second time you've come into a thread and responded to one of my posts with something that is irrelevant if not outright incorrect.

Let me spell this out so you can read it all in one place:

1 - My post was in response to some clown who was trying to say that Portis wasn't fast. That is incorrect. His reputation as a speed RB was established long before he was drafted.

2 - I am not advocating drafting a running back. You neg repped me in another thread and responded to a list of players who I thought the Broncos would draft with an angry, bitter post arguing that the Broncos shouldn't draft a RB, when in fact I said that with a win-now mentality I thought they would, not that they should.

3 - You are spouting statistics that you know nothing about. http://www.livestrong.com/article/15527-long-average-career-nfl-player/ The average career of an NFL running back is 2.57 years. The average career of an NFL kicker or punter is 4.87 years. The average career of all players at all positions? 3.33 years. And these statistics factor in leaving the league for all reasons, including getting cut or retiring due to injury. So you're advocating automatically dismissing drafting running back over a DT on the sole reason that the careers of RBs, in a league of 125+ RBs each year, average about 7 months less than the league average? You sir, are a tool.

There are several reasons not to draft a RB. But maybe if you developed a little reading comprehension, you'd realize that some people are arguing about what the Broncos might end up doing, as opposed to what we think they should do.

And believe me, thinking about what they might end up doing is far, far scarier than thinking about what they should do.

Rohirrim
04-10-2012, 12:05 PM
Miller isn't much of a pass catcher (Miami took him out on third downs) and can't block worth a ****. Wilson is very athletic, not very patient, and not a very good blocker. Martin can't read defenses, can't block, can't read blitzes. Pierce is a single facet runner who is also suspect at catching passes and blocking. LMJ can't catch, can't block. With Manning, I assume the Broncos are going to be playing with the lead. At least that will be the goal. The RB in that offense doesn't have to win the game. He has to be able to burn the clock, move the chains, and block. Not first round requirements by any means. Better to beef up the defense to hold onto the leads your HOF QB gets for you and get him the ball back as soon as possible so he can score again.

Given the requirements for this offense, the best RB is Cyrus Gray who will be available in the third round (maybe fourth - 120?). He can run and catch and he's a solid blocker.

Broncos4tw
04-10-2012, 12:22 PM
Like I said before, I think there is a decent chance we won't draft a DT in the first round. I imagine some fans will rage, but we can still get a quality DT in the 2nd, and while we do need one, it's not as critical if Manning is our QB. RB? I'd be ok with that, I guess. I'd rather we plugged holes on the D though.

gyldenlove
04-10-2012, 12:25 PM
Miller isn't much of a pass catcher (Miami took him out on third downs) and can't block worth a ****. Wilson is very athletic, not very patient, and not a very good blocker. Martin can't read defenses, can't block, can't read blitzes. Pierce is a single facet runner who is also suspect at catching passes and blocking. LMJ can't catch, can't block. With Manning, I assume the Broncos are going to be playing with the lead. At least that will be the goal. The RB in that offense doesn't have to win the game. He has to be able to burn the clock, move the chains, and block. Not first round requirements by any means. Better to beef up the defense to hold onto the leads your HOF QB gets for you and get him the ball back as soon as possible so he can score again.

Given the requirements for this offense, the best RB is Cyrus Gray who will be available in the third round (maybe fourth - 120?). He can run and catch and he's a solid blocker.

I believe pass blocking will be a vital skill for whoever we draft, Mcgahee is not much of a blocker and while Moreno can block he will probably get injured doing it.

Bacchus
04-10-2012, 12:46 PM
The PAts, Packers and Giants were the three best teams in the NFL last year. All of them had terrible defenses. The name of the game in the NFL is offense. To tell you the truth a DT is not going to help Denver beat the Pats. However a stud RB could be a game changer.

BroncoInferno
04-10-2012, 12:49 PM
Miller isn't much of a pass catcher (Miami took him out on third downs) and can't block worth a ****. Wilson is very athletic, not very patient, and not a very good blocker. Martin can't read defenses, can't block, can't read blitzes. Pierce is a single facet runner who is also suspect at catching passes and blocking. LMJ can't catch, can't block. With Manning, I assume the Broncos are going to be playing with the lead. At least that will be the goal. The RB in that offense doesn't have to win the game. He has to be able to burn the clock, move the chains, and block. Not first round requirements by any means. Better to beef up the defense to hold onto the leads your HOF QB gets for you and get him the ball back as soon as possible so he can score again.

Given the requirements for this offense, the best RB is Cyrus Gray who will be available in the third round (maybe fourth - 120?). He can run and catch and he's a solid blocker.

I agree overall, but I prefer Isaiah Pead from Cincy to Cyrus Gray. Good all around back with good speed, should be there in the 3rd.

socalorado
04-10-2012, 12:58 PM
I agree overall, but I prefer Isaiah Pead from Cincy to Cyrus Gray. Good all around back with good speed, should be there in the 3rd.

Pead is a poor-mans Marshall Faulk. I agree.
I would want Doug Martin higher though. He is a MJD/Ray Rice clone.

CEH
04-10-2012, 01:01 PM
The PAts, Packers and Giants were the three best teams in the NFL last year. All of them had terrible defenses. The name of the game in the NFL is offense. To tell you the truth a DT is not going to help Denver beat the Pats. However a stud RB could be a game changer.

I agree. Pick your poison. What do they think this team will be this year and the next 3. Hopefully a team that plays with the lead. Assume we draft a DT at #25 and play with a lead in 10 of the 16 games. This #25 pick only sees the field for 30-40% of the time becuase teams are throwing. Now what if we draft a CB or RB at #25 with a lead in 10 of the 16 games. Seems to me we would get more impact from one of those players.

DENVERDUI55
04-10-2012, 01:03 PM
The PAts, Packers and Giants were the three best teams in the NFL last year. All of them had terrible defenses. The name of the game in the NFL is offense. To tell you the truth a DT is not going to help Denver beat the Pats. However a stud RB could be a game changer.

Giants had a good defense. No way you can't with that DL. They got healthy at end of the year when it counts.

OrangeSe7en
04-10-2012, 01:07 PM
I'm not really adamant about what they should or should not do like many here seem to be.

Ultimately, I don't think they'll regret drafting Miller and it wouldnt surprise me if they did it. Elway knew the value of playing on a team with a great running game and it wouldnt surprise me if he sold Peyton on the idea of getting him help and not making Peyton do it all himself. Also, Fox loves the run and Denver has one of the best offensive line coaches in the NFL for run blocking. This would not shock me at all. I like the way Miller runs. You could argue that he only had one year as a starter but the flip side to that is that he also would be entering the league with less wear and tear. He does actually remind me a lot of Portis. And playing on a team with Peyton Manning could actually mean he'd be better in the NFL than he was in college.

I wouldn't be upset with this at all. I wouldn't have a problem with a DT, but then too, I feel a RB would be a little less risky than a DT at 25, especially when Miller's a better package than Moreno was at 12. Moreno played with Matt Stafford in college, which helped a lot. What Miller played with is almost laughable in comparison, yet he had comparable production and certainly more big play potential, which is what the Broncos need--playmakers.

Play2win
04-10-2012, 01:09 PM
Miller isn't much of a pass catcher (Miami took him out on third downs) and can't block worth a ****. Wilson is very athletic, not very patient, and not a very good blocker. Martin can't read defenses, can't block, can't read blitzes. Pierce is a single facet runner who is also suspect at catching passes and blocking. LMJ can't catch, can't block. With Manning, I assume the Broncos are going to be playing with the lead. At least that will be the goal. The RB in that offense doesn't have to win the game. He has to be able to burn the clock, move the chains, and block. Not first round requirements by any means. Better to beef up the defense to hold onto the leads your HOF QB gets for you and get him the ball back as soon as possible so he can score again.

Given the requirements for this offense, the best RB is Cyrus Gray who will be available in the third round (maybe fourth - 120?). He can run and catch and he's a solid blocker.

What about Polk?

(of course not in 1st round)

Rohirrim
04-10-2012, 01:09 PM
I agree overall, but I prefer Isaiah Pead from Cincy to Cyrus Gray. Good all around back with good speed, should be there in the 3rd.

I like Pead as well, but I think that Gray pretty much excels at everything, including the intangibles; hard work, team ethic, high effort, etc. At any rate, I'd like to see the Broncos use that #108 pick on the best RB available.

Rohirrim
04-10-2012, 01:10 PM
What about Polk?

(of course not in 1st round)

I think Gray is a much better blocker and better overall runner. I think the ability to block is going to be a crucial factor.

OrangeSe7en
04-10-2012, 01:11 PM
The PAts, Packers and Giants were the three best teams in the NFL last year. All of them had terrible defenses. The name of the game in the NFL is offense. To tell you the truth a DT is not going to help Denver beat the Pats. However a stud RB could be a game changer.

If Denver can put together a great running game like it had in the late 90s to complement a HOF QB, Denver could be the team that others draft defense to stop. Denver's offense could be a juggernaut if they get a playmaker at RB.

Play2win
04-10-2012, 01:32 PM
I think Gray is a much better blocker and better overall runner. I think the ability to block is going to be a crucial factor.

Gotcha. Never heard of him before, but Polk kinda reminded me of Mike Anderson a bit. Anyway, I don't get as much free time as I used to, but draft day this year should be fun, especially since we got Payton mother****ing Manning :thumbsup:

teknic
04-10-2012, 01:49 PM
There is no way Kirkpatrick falls to Denver at 25, but he's who I want most.

Though with the Porter signing (assuming they keep Goodman), CB is a much smaller need than MLB, DT, RB, WR, C. I wouldn't be upset with a RB in round 1, but I believe the Broncos have more pressing needs on defense.

Requiem
04-10-2012, 01:59 PM
It is going to be close on Kirkpatrick. I would love that selection. If Porter were to be re-signed, that would give us two long-term options when Bailey decides to call it quit and make life easier for us in a pass happy NFL.

If we do go Kirkpatrick, what does Denver do? It has to be defensive tackle. I'd guess we'd wait on a RB until round three if that happens.

TheReverend
04-10-2012, 02:02 PM
It is going to be close on Kirkpatrick. I would love that selection. If Porter were to be re-signed, that would give us two long-term options when Bailey decides to call it quit and make life easier for us in a pass happy NFL.

If we do go Kirkpatrick, what does Denver do? It has to be defensive tackle. I'd guess we'd wait on a RB until round three if that happens.

1a. Kirk
1b. (after trading #2, #3, and #4) Devon Still
4. Rainey

All problems solved with a massive talent infusion.

socalorado
04-10-2012, 02:22 PM
1a. Kirk
1b. (after trading #2, #3, and #4) Devon Still
4. Rainey

All problems solved with a massive talent infusion.

Except for Still. LOL!
And Kirk is vastly overrated.
Would rather go after Heyward or Johnson in RD3.
Rainey? Sure why not.

I would actually like
1 RB Doug Martin
2 DT Alameda Ta'ammu
3 DT Mike Martin
4A CB
4B OG/C
5th DT

Inkana7
04-10-2012, 02:38 PM
That dude has never been right about anything. I'm still waiting for DJ Williams to be traded.

TheReverend
04-10-2012, 02:42 PM
Except for Still. LOL!
And Kirk is vastly overrated.
Would rather go after Heyward or Johnson in RD3.
Rainey? Sure why not.

I would actually like
1 RB Doug Martin
2 DT Alameda Ta'ammu
3 DT Mike Martin
4A CB
4B OG/C
5th DT

Groce.

pricejj
04-10-2012, 02:43 PM
Groce.

Rev, I thought you were a Jenkins guy?

Gcver2ver3
04-10-2012, 02:46 PM
Except for Still. LOL!
And Kirk is vastly overrated.
Would rather go after Heyward or Johnson in RD3.
Rainey? Sure why not.

I would actually like
1 RB Doug Martin
2 DT Alameda Ta'ammu
3 DT Mike Martin
4A CB
4B OG/C
5th DT

Although i've been against taking rb in the 1st... that outcome, i could live with...

TheReverend
04-10-2012, 02:46 PM
Rev, I thought you were a Jenkins guy?

I am. He's the best CB in the draft.

My preference is to still go with Kirk over him if they're both available due to character concerns.

For what Denver does defensively, I'd take both over Clairborne and Gilmore

Gcver2ver3
04-10-2012, 02:56 PM
Except for Still. LOL!
And Kirk is vastly overrated.
Would rather go after Heyward or Johnson in RD3.
Rainey? Sure why not.

I would actually like
1 RB Doug Martin
2 DT Alameda Ta'ammu
3 DT Mike Martin
4A
4B OG/C
5th DT

Duplicate post...

Rohirrim
04-10-2012, 03:00 PM
Or we could go with Hightower and instantly have one of the nastiest pass rushes in the league with Hightower, Von and Doom. ;D

24champ
04-10-2012, 03:00 PM
1a. Kirk
1b. (after trading #2, #3, and #4) Devon Still
4. Rainey

All problems solved with a massive talent infusion.

That or...

1. Kirk
2. Worthy
3. Osweiler
4. Ronnie Hillman
5. Asa Jackson

etc.

Drunken.Broncoholic
04-10-2012, 03:07 PM
I am. He's the best CB in the draft.

My preference is to still go with Kirk over him if they're both available due to character concerns.

For what Denver does defensively, I'd take both over Clairborne and Gilmore

Jenkins and Rainey are highly popular picks from Gator fans. I think Jenkins talent wise is better than Claiborne. I don't know much about Rainey

OrangeSe7en
04-10-2012, 04:00 PM
Jenkins and Rainey are highly popular picks from Gator fans. I think Jenkins talent wise is better than Claiborne. I don't know much about Rainey

Rainey is like Darren Sproles but not as heavy. He's incredibly light. Rainey can also maybe help more in special teams than Sproles. Not only could Rainey possibly be a returner but he also has a freakish knack for blocking punts.

I'd rather have Rainey as a 3rd down back than Moreno.

Play2win
04-10-2012, 04:09 PM
Or we could go with Hightower and instantly have one of the nastiest pass rushes in the league with Hightower, Von and Doom. ;D

Now we are talking... Those three would play well together.

Now just try to get some big plugs through the rest of the draft.

jebures
04-10-2012, 04:09 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ZVoKjbx3QC4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Seems to run between the tackles just fine...this is exactly what this offense needs!

I want

Heyneck
04-10-2012, 04:14 PM
I am. He's the best CB in the draft.

My preference is to still go with Kirk over him if they're both available due to character concerns.

For what Denver does defensively, I'd take both over Clairborne and Gilmore

Say we pick up a DT in the 1st round and Jenkins makes it to the 2nd... would you be willing to trade up for him them? Even if it costs us say... 2-3 picks?

That's what I read yesterday on MMQB... i think. Depending of who we get on round 1... I am all for this move.

Heyneck
04-10-2012, 04:16 PM
Love Miller or Martin... but anyone expecting Miller to be the next Portis... pass that what you are smoking around cause I sure want to try that!!!

OrangeSe7en
04-10-2012, 04:29 PM
Love Miller or Martin... but anyone expecting Miller to be the next Portis... pass that what you are smoking around cause I sure want to try that!!!

In fairness, Portis averaged 5.43 per carry on a Hurricanes team that was loaded and might be the best college team of all time. Miller averaged 5.6 on a Miami team that was well short of the 2001 team in terms of talent. The running style and speed are actually comparable.

And one thing to keep in mind is that Peyton Manning is going to get more respect, generally speaking, than Jake Plummer. The only reason I say "generally speaking" is because Plummer was more effective than Manning on bootlegs which was an offset to the stretch play. But aside from that, Mannings in a different world than Plummer. He gets way more respect than Plummer would or did. This should open up the run more. And if someone loads up on the run, it just makes Manning that much more effective.

Heyneck
04-10-2012, 04:40 PM
In fairness, Portis averaged 5.43 per carry on a Hurricanes team that was loaded and might be the best college team of all time. Miller averaged 5.6 on a Miami team that was well short of the 2001 team in terms of talent. The running style and speed are actually comparable.

And one thing to keep in mind is that Peyton Manning is going to get more respect, generally speaking, than Jake Plummer. The only reason I say "generally speaking" is because Plummer was more effective than Manning on bootlegs which was an offset to the stretch play. But aside from that, Mannings in a different world than Plummer. He gets way more respect than Plummer would or did. This should open up the run more. And if someone loads up on the run, it just makes Manning that much more effective.

Good points dude... but I just haven't seen Miller do what Portis did in the NFL. I haven't seen Miller take over games the way Portis did (in the NFL and College).

I haven't seen someone hit the hole in a one cut system the way Portis did. What he did in the NFL... they were glimpses of it in college. Miller is a stud... but not in the mold of Portis.

Clinton had crap OL and QBs in WAS... and he still managed to produce with everyone focusing on him.

I still laugh in my head when I remember the way he constantly pooped on the Quiefs... especially his epic beat down on them.

OrangeSe7en
04-10-2012, 04:46 PM
Good points dude... but I just haven't seen Miller do what Portis did in the NFL. I haven't seen Miller take over games the way Portis did (in the NFL and College).

I haven't seen someone hit the hole in a one cut system the way Portis did. What he did in the NFL... they were glimpses of it in college. Miller is a stud... but not in the mold of Portis.

Clinton had crap OL and QBs in WAS... and he still managed to produce with everyone focusing on him.

I still laugh in my head when I remember the way he constantly pooped on the Quiefs... especially his epic beat down on them.

Yeah, Portis was a great RB, especially in Denver. But time moves on. If Denver drafts Miller, you should really give him a chance before you decree that he's not Portis' equal.

gyldenlove
04-10-2012, 04:52 PM
Rainey is like Darren Sproles but not as heavy. He's incredibly light. Rainey can also maybe help more in special teams than Sproles. Not only could Rainey possibly be a returner but he also has a freakish knack for blocking punts.

I'd rather have Rainey as a 3rd down back than Moreno.

I don't see the light in Rainey, he wasn't very productive at Florida, despite being surrounded by talent and he is too light, he is 3 inches taller than Sproles but still lighter.

27atwater
04-10-2012, 04:55 PM
martin brothers...doug and mike

gyldenlove
04-10-2012, 04:55 PM
Or we could go with Hightower and instantly have one of the nastiest pass rushes in the league with Hightower, Von and Doom. ;D

The OLB position is weak this year, so I wouldn't be surprised to see a bit more focus on the ILB position so Hightower could very well be drafted in the early 20s or late 10s, again depending how high Kuechly goes - I think if Kuechly goes early Hightower will probably be gone but if Kuechly falls a bit Hightower could be available.

Right now I have to say Konz is a pick I am warming up to.

SonOfLe-loLang
04-10-2012, 05:02 PM
I don't see the light in Rainey, he wasn't very productive at Florida, despite being surrounded by talent and he is too light, he is 3 inches taller than Sproles but still lighter.

I like him...his cutback is pretty lethal and he'd be a major weapon on screens...if we actually run them

Tombstone RJ
04-10-2012, 05:14 PM
Good points dude... but I just haven't seen Miller do what Portis did in the NFL. I haven't seen Miller take over games the way Portis did (in the NFL and College).

I haven't seen someone hit the hole in a one cut system the way Portis did. What he did in the NFL... they were glimpses of it in college. Miller is a stud... but not in the mold of Portis.

Clinton had crap OL and QBs in WAS... and he still managed to produce with everyone focusing on him.

I still laugh in my head when I remember the way he constantly pooped on the Quiefs... especially his epic beat down on them.

I don't remember Portis being anything special in college. Miller has been clocked at 4.38 which is legitimate NFL speed. That's the same as Jamaal Charles 40 when he was being drafted.

I really would rather the Broncos spend their early picks on defense, especially defensive line. That being said it is about "value" and if the Broncos have an offensive player rated really high, higher than any defensive player on their board at 25 then I guess they should take him.

All I want is impact players and that is why I was ok with Von Miller last year. He came in made an immediate impact on the defense. I'd love it if Kirkpatric was sitting there at 25 (not gonna happen) or Cox (not gonna happen) but it's much more likely that those guys will be gone. There's a reason blue chip DTs and CBs are at a premium in the NFL draft, they are not easy to find.

If the Broncos can't find an immediate impact player on defense at 25 then draft on offense--RB, WR, Oline, I don't care. Just make it count!!

Heyneck
04-10-2012, 05:15 PM
Yeah, Portis was a great RB, especially in Denver. But time moves on. If Denver drafts Miller, you should really give him a chance before you decree that he's not Portis' equal.

Hey... every player Denver picks or adds is always great! I cheer for everyone of our Broncos... and if we pick Miller up I will be thrilled. He could be Portis equal (Production wise)... but running wise, the fluidity, speed and decisiveness combo won't be anything in comparison to Portis. He was also strong as a bull for somebody his size.

Nobody would trade Champ in his prime for any elite RB... o wait somebody did. Because Portis was that worthy. We still fleeced them... but it show actually how unfair it would be for us to expect Miller to turn into the next Portis.

Let Miller be Miller and hope he turns the best he can!!

Heyneck
04-10-2012, 05:28 PM
I don't remember Portis being anything special in college. Miller has been clocked at 4.38 which is legitimate NFL speed. That's the same as Jamaal Charles 40 when he was being drafted.

I really would rather the Broncos spend their early picks on defense, especially defensive line. That being said it is about "value" and if the Broncos have an offensive player rated really high, higher than any defensive player on their board at 25 then I guess they should take him.

All I want is impact players and that is why I was ok with Von Miller last year. He came in made an immediate impact on the defense. I'd love it if Kirkpatric was sitting there at 25 (not gonna happen) or Cox (not gonna happen) but it's much more likely that those guys will be gone. There's a reason blue chip DTs and CBs are at a premium in the NFL draft, they are not easy to find.

If the Broncos can't find an immediate impact player on defense at 25 then draft on offense--RB, WR, Oline, I don't care. Just make it count!!

I am not against picking Miller. I am just saying he doesn't compare to Portis in the "eye test". Portis had 1 lousy season in college... other than that he produced. His Rose Bowl performance was awesome!!! And I still think his back to back 1500 rushing yard seasons are still a record for someone starting out his career.

I am with you on the defensive part. I want def with our 1rd pick... but if any of our targets are off the board then yes... go for the value pick. If Miller is the BPA at that point then take him.

Hamrob
04-10-2012, 06:23 PM
Let me get this straight. We just signed a passing QB for $95m, who has thrown for over 4,000yds 12 times, and we're going to waste our #1 pick on a RB??

I think not!

Nice smoke screen though. We will take a DT!

pricejj
04-10-2012, 06:40 PM
The OLB position is weak this year, so I wouldn't be surprised to see a bit more focus on the ILB position so Hightower could very well be drafted in the early 20s or late 10s, again depending how high Kuechly goes - I think if Kuechly goes early Hightower will probably be gone but if Kuechly falls a bit Hightower could be available.

Right now I have to say Konz is a pick I am warming up to.

Konz or Hightower....great picks


Have to say, I like what Hightower did in the BCS Championship...especially the sack from the DE position to seal the deal. He is always making adjustments in the Front 7...very impressive.

...is a great leader, can cover TE's, great nose for the football, and can rush the passer...

Manning will know if Walton is any good or not...and I'm sure will let it be known to EFX.

Broncoman13
04-10-2012, 07:27 PM
Let me get this straight. We just signed a passing QB for $95m, who has thrown for over 4,000yds 12 times, and we're going to waste our #1 pick on a RB??

I think not!

Nice smoke screen though. We will take a DT!

What put Elway over the hump to win a championship?

lonestar
04-10-2012, 07:29 PM
Giants had a good defense. No way you can't with that DL. They got healthy at end of the year when it counts.

an amazing concept that I suspect Elway will never grasp..

27atwater
04-10-2012, 07:30 PM
We NEED a DT and a RB. I don't care which order we get them in...as long as we get them. McGahee and Knowshon both get hurt a lot and McGahee is also old and fumbles a lot. We need a legit RB. If it's in the 1st, so be it.

lonestar
04-10-2012, 07:31 PM
Let me get this straight. We just signed a passing QB for $95m, who has thrown for over 4,000yds 12 times, and we're going to waste our #1 pick on a RB??

I think not!

Nice smoke screen though. We will take a DT!

not to mention two top TE's and a WR totaling about 30 milion for this season..

gyldenlove
04-10-2012, 07:37 PM
Konz or Hightower....great picks


Have to say, I like what Hightower did in the BCS Championship...especially the sack from the DE position to seal the deal. He is always making adjustments in the Front 7...very impressive.

...is a great leader, can cover TE's, great nose for the football, and can rush the passer...

Manning will know if Walton is any good or not...and I'm sure will let it be known to EFX.

Hightower was playing a bit apprehensively this year, but if he gets comfortable out there and lets lose he can be a real beast, he has everything we need in a MLB.

I used to be down on Konz as a pick, but there just aren't that many good centers to go around, so if we have the chance to get one and at 25 it would be decent value, I don't see why not. If he can avoid injury he could be a 10 year starter.

Mogulseeker
04-10-2012, 07:41 PM
There is no chance....none, that Denver drafts a RB at 25.

This.

It's a smoke screen. RB is not THAT pressing of a need, and 1st round RBs are overrated anyway.

Gcver2ver3
04-10-2012, 07:43 PM
We NEED a DT and a RB. I don't care which order we get them in...as long as we get them. McGahee and Knowshon both get hurt a lot and McGahee is also old and fumbles a lot. We need a legit RB. If it's in the 1st, so be it.

i find sound logic in this statement...

OrangeSe7en
04-10-2012, 08:28 PM
What put Elway over the hump to win a championship?

This is it. There's no guarantee that they'll draft a RB, but people who are insistent about doing one thing, should really prepare themselves to be disappointed.

No one knows what they will do. There's more than one approach to take for which you can make an argument.

Bacchus
04-10-2012, 08:43 PM
Giants had a good defense. No way you can't with that DL. They got healthy at end of the year when it counts.

The Giants play 4 DEs and rush the passer. Manning carried the team most of the year. The defense got pressure on the QB but they also gave up a lot of big plays.

All I am saying is if Denver can find a starting RB at #25 it would serve them much better than finding a starting DT at #25.

DENVERDUI55
04-10-2012, 09:19 PM
The Giants play 4 DEs and rush the passer. Manning carried the team most of the year. The defense got pressure on the QB but they also gave up a lot of big plays.

All I am saying is if Denver can find a starting RB at #25 it would serve them much better than finding a starting DT at #25.

I hear what your saying but you said NY had a bad defense. Yeah they were bad when missing a boatload of their starters but any team out there would too. They were healthy at end of year and it showed. I say no to RB early. Denver can bandaid one. We need defense to the max.

pricejj
04-10-2012, 09:20 PM
Hightower was playing a bit apprehensively this year, but if he gets comfortable out there and lets lose he can be a real beast, he has everything we need in a MLB.

I used to be down on Konz as a pick, but there just aren't that many good centers to go around, so if we have the chance to get one and at 25 it would be decent value, I don't see why not. If he can avoid injury he could be a 10 year starter.

Yeah, don't be down on Konz man...he improved his bench up to 23 reps in about a month, and professed he was never good at it...Mangold had 25...Pouncey had 23...Konz could be a perennial All-Pro.

Hightower could be the MLB we have so desperately needed since Al Wilson was injured...he could be the guy that ties it all together...and is also a possible All-Pro...

spdirty
04-10-2012, 09:21 PM
^5 FYP

If he makes the pro bowl at any point in his career, I'll definitely dig this thread up and give you your due.

I just don't see it with Miller -- one year starter, injury history... meh. He's 6th on my board this year. If the Broncos took him in the 3rd, I'd be intrigued because of his upside, but he's no Clinton Portis.

LOL

OrangeSe7en
04-10-2012, 09:26 PM
I hear what your saying but you said NY had a bad defense. Yeah they were bad when missing a boatload of their starters but any team out there would too. They were healthy at end of year and it showed. I say no to RB early. Denver can bandaid one. We need defense to the max.

If you can get an impact player at 25 and it's a RB, thats perfectly OK even if the person you get at DT later is mediocre. There's no obvious choice at DT. So, if we take a RB who is productive and not DT X, Y or Z and DT Y turns out to be good while the X and Z are mediocre or bad, people will assume that Denver would have drafted Y by saying something like, "we could have had DT Y as if there was a certainty that it wouldn't have been X or Z.

maven
04-10-2012, 09:29 PM
Miller & Portis do not look like each other at all in college. Heck, Willis was the explosive one in college.

Hamrob
04-10-2012, 09:46 PM
What put Elway over the hump to win a championship?

Eh...Neil Smith?

Hamrob
04-10-2012, 09:50 PM
This is it. There's no guarantee that they'll draft a RB, but people who are insistent about doing one thing, should really prepare themselves to be disappointed.

No one knows what they will do. There's more than one approach to take for which you can make an argument.Hey, I think they have several choices:


Cox
Brockers
Poe
Still
Worthy

Lestat
04-10-2012, 09:53 PM
if we go RB in the first round i hope we trade back a few spots, pick up a extra selection and go from there. Wilson is who i would take in the first, Miller i'd take in the 2nd because i think his value drags him down to that area.

Dedhed
04-10-2012, 09:55 PM
How many DT are around after 10 years.. then find a 10 year RB.

I suspect you will see many more of the former than the latter..

In any case most RBs are toast at 30.. not so with DL.. they rarely lose that step they never had..

We need DT much more than we need rb's that in a ZBS almost anyone that can make one cut can be successful..

Why are people talking about longevity here? We have a 3-4 window at the very best with Manning. After that we're rebuilding again.

We had better get guys who are going to have an immediate impact. Forget about longevity; it's an utterly moot point with Manning on board.

DENVERDUI55
04-10-2012, 10:06 PM
If you can get an impact player at 25 and it's a RB, thats perfectly OK even if the person you get at DT later is mediocre. There's no obvious choice at DT. So, if we take a RB who is productive and not DT X, Y or Z and DT Y turns out to be good while the X and Z are mediocre or bad, people will assume that Denver would have drafted Y by saying something like, "we could have had DT Y as if there was a certainty that it wouldn't have been X or Z.

You are right but the only way to guarantee that you have bad DT play is to not invest in talent like Denver has. Zero DT s since 97 is inexcusable.

Carmelo15
04-10-2012, 11:07 PM
Hey, I think they have several choices:


Cox
Brockers
Poe
Still
Worthy

Take those first 3 off the board cuz they'll be gone at 25. So now you're talking about Still and Worthy. Lamar Miller is better than both of them. So are Brandon Thompson and Alameda Ta'amu. Now you can see the Broncos' logic

SoCalBronco
04-10-2012, 11:11 PM
Miller is a good player with some serious flaws. He should have come back for another year to get stronger and develop a more well rounded game. Few RBs go from redshirt sophomore to NFL stud immediately. He'll have to put work in.

Ofcourse, if he did come back...a true freshman RB (Duke Johnson) might have taken some carries away from him, so maybe it was for the best. :)

That One Guy
04-10-2012, 11:19 PM
I don't want Still drafted because discussions with his name in them are confusing.

pricejj
04-10-2012, 11:54 PM
Take those first 3 off the board cuz they'll be gone at 25. So now you're talking about Still and Worthy. Lamar Miller is better than both of them. So are Brandon Thompson and Alameda Ta'amu. Now you can see the Broncos' logic

Honestly, I think Xanders has backed himself into a corner and won't go with BPA. Look at all his past drafts...he always picks "BPA in a position of need", regardless of positional value, he doesn't go with "BPA"...Well, he made sure that DT was a position of need...that strategy doesn't produce the best roster.

Carmelo15
04-11-2012, 12:52 AM
Mike Klis:
What do you see the Broncos doing about help at the running back position? If it is to be addressed through the draft, do you know of any specific players you think might be likely?
--Steve, Westminster

In their perfect world, the Broncos will draft a running back who later in the 2012 season will become their 1A tailback, with veteran Willis McGahee shifting to 1B and Knowshon Moreno taking the third-down back role of blitz-picker-upper and receiver.

This is why a running back with their No. 25 overall pick in the first round is a possibility. For instance, the Broncos could take Miami's Lamar Miller, Virginia Tech's David Wilson, Boise State's Doug Martin or Cincinnati's Isaiah Pead in the first round and Boise State defensive tackle Billy Winn in the second.

Any one of those aforementioned running backs, along with Cincinnati's Isaiah Pead, would also be under consideration if they remain available as the Broncos select with their No. 57 overall pick in the second round. In the third round, running back possibilities would include Texas A&M's Cyrus Gray, Temple's Bernard Pierce and Baylor's Terrance Ganaway.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncosmailbag/ci_20358011/broncos-mailbag-peyton-manning-could-use-some-running

barryr
04-11-2012, 06:23 AM
I'd prefer Martin than the other RB's mentioned. I think he can do everything well that you want in a feature RB.

fontaine
04-11-2012, 07:06 AM
No way we should draft a RB in the first two rounds.

Ball/Moreno/Willis will be more than enough this year and there's no point in expecting a rookie RB to come in be entrusted in pass blocking for Manning.

We already are four deep at the pass catching position with Tamme/Dreessen/DT/Decker, and Moreno is a decent pass catcher anway.

The point is that DT is the one position of need and also where a rookie will come in a be expected to play a lot of snaps. I would even be okay with going DT with the first two picks because that would also help build towards the 2013 season when both Warren/Vickerson will be a year older and FAs as well.

socalorado
04-11-2012, 07:09 AM
No way we should draft a RB in the first two rounds.

Ball/Moreno/Willis will be more than enough this year and there's no point in expecting a rookie RB to come in be entrusted in pass blocking for Manning.

We already are four deep at the pass catching position with Tamme/Dreessen/DT/Decker, and Moreno is a decent pass catcher anway.

The point is that DT is the one position of need and also where a rookie will come in a be expected to play a lot of snaps. I would even be okay with going DT with the first two picks because that would also help build towards the 2013 season when both Warren/Vickerson will be a year older and FAs as well.

OK, so with that being said, which likely DT that will be there at #25 does DEN take?
Lets say Poe, Brockers and Cox are gone. Who?

Ray Finkle
04-11-2012, 07:26 AM
OK, so with that being said, which likely DT that will be there at #25 does DEN take?
Lets say Poe, Brockers and Cox are gone. Who?

Worthy, Stills, or Reyes....DT's are a complete crap shoot anyway.

socalorado
04-11-2012, 07:46 AM
Worthy, Stills, or Reyes....DT's are a complete crap shoot anyway.

I think Ta'ammu, Martin or Crick would be there in the 2nd or even get one in the third as well, and i think they will end up being better pros than the three you mentioned.
Maybe Reyes ends up being pretty good.
So i dont care if DEN takes another player like RB Doug Martin in the 1st, when they know damn well that he wont be there at #57, but a very solid DT will be there.
Basically i think Still and Worthy are not worth wasting a 1st on. Or Brockers for that matter, who i think will be a huge bust.
I think Cox and Poe are the only players to be taken in rd 1 at DT.
The rest can be had in the 2nd and DEN should trade picks to get another
2nd rounder and get 2 of them. Just my 2 pennies.

Rohirrim
04-11-2012, 08:44 AM
Mike Klis:


http://www.denverpost.com/broncosmailbag/ci_20358011/broncos-mailbag-peyton-manning-could-use-some-running

That's some deep thinking from Klis. List all the RBs in the draft and then say, "It could be one of these guys in one of the rounds in the draft." Ha!

TheReverend
04-11-2012, 08:44 AM
Or we could go with Hightower and instantly have one of the nastiest pass rushes in the league with Hightower, Von and Doom. ;D

Now we are talking... Those three would play well together.

Now just try to get some big plugs through the rest of the draft.

No. No they wouldn't. When 2/3 of your LBs are spent blitzing, who the **** is covering the now 2+ open receivers?

Say we pick up a DT in the 1st round and Jenkins makes it to the 2nd... would you be willing to trade up for him them? Even if it costs us say... 2-3 picks?

That's what I read yesterday on MMQB... i think. Depending of who we get on round 1... I am all for this move.

If I were Denver I'd be doing a few things in case of this eventuality that all involve bringing Jenkins in for a workout and, more importantly, a thorough discussion:

1. His past and current situation... is he taking responsibility or was it "not his fault"?

2. Is he showing any signs of maturation after speaking to the people and coaches close to him?

And most importantly

3. I'd tell him if we selected him, it would be dependent on HIM actively reaching out to, developing and maintaining a relationship with both Champ and Prime.

If he hits those points, I go after him hard without ANY hesitation.

houghtam
04-11-2012, 08:53 AM
No. No they wouldn't. When 2/3 of your LBs are spent blitzing, who the **** is covering the now 2+ open receivers?



If I were Denver I'd be doing a few things in case of this eventuality that all involve bringing Jenkins in for a workout and, more importantly, a thorough discussion:

1. His past and current situation... is he taking responsibility or was it "not his fault"?

2. Is he showing any signs of maturation after speaking to the people and coaches close to him?

And most importantly

3. I'd tell him if we selected him, it would be dependent on HIM actively reaching out to, developing and maintaining a relationship with both Champ and Prime.

If he hits those points, I go after him hard without ANY hesitation.

I envy your trust. Too much risk, no matter what conditions you put on drafting him. Jenkins is quite a talent, but I wouldn't spend higher than a 4th or 5th on him. Since he'll likely not make it out of the late first/early second, we wouldn't have a chance to get him if I were the GM.

socalorado
04-11-2012, 09:28 AM
I envy your trust. Too much risk, no matter what conditions you put on drafting him. Jenkins is quite a talent, but I wouldn't spend higher than a 4th or 5th on him. Since he'll likely not make it out of the late first/early second, we wouldn't have a chance to get him if I were the GM.

Agreed. Waay too much risk for a team that is doing just fine at CB now.
I would love to get another in the draft, but to waste a pick that could go to a much needed position, on a huge risk player is just too much right now.
Guy reeks of Tanard Jackson...literally.

TheReverend
04-11-2012, 09:30 AM
Agreed. Waay too much risk for a team that is doing just fine at CB now.
I would love to get another in the draft, but to waste a pick that could go to a much needed position, on a huge risk player is just too much right now.
Guy reeks of Tanard Jackson...literally.

http://menversus.com/images/bertstare.jpg

socalorado
04-11-2012, 09:49 AM
http://menversus.com/images/bertstare.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lJbubGaJr1c/T2zbWMAfJgI/AAAAAAAAA7w/rZ1kiEE-CEI/s1600/haw_to_give_the_middle_finger-0912141681.jpg
:sunshine:

Ray Finkle
04-11-2012, 09:56 AM
No. No they wouldn't. When 2/3 of your LBs are spent blitzing, who the **** is covering the now 2+ open receivers?



If I were Denver I'd be doing a few things in case of this eventuality that all involve bringing Jenkins in for a workout and, more importantly, a thorough discussion:

1. His past and current situation... is he taking responsibility or was it "not his fault"?

2. Is he showing any signs of maturation after speaking to the people and coaches close to him?

And most importantly

3. I'd tell him if we selected him, it would be dependent on HIM actively reaching out to, developing and maintaining a relationship with both Champ and Prime.

If he hits those points, I go after him hard without ANY hesitation.


doesn't it bother you that his agent just dumped him? He's got more warts than I care for a 1st rounder.

TheReverend
04-11-2012, 10:05 AM
doesn't it bother you that his agent just dumped him? He's got more warts than I care for a 1st rounder.

There's a wealth of things that bother me about him.

None are on the field.

Rohirrim
04-11-2012, 10:09 AM
No. No they wouldn't. When 2/3 of your LBs are spent blitzing, who the **** is covering the now 2+ open receivers?



They better be playing a lot of three step drop. Even then. Sometimes they cover, sometimes they blitz. You know, strategy stuff.

If I were Denver I'd be doing a few things in case of this eventuality that all involve bringing Jenkins in for a workout and, more importantly, a thorough discussion:

1. His past and current situation... is he taking responsibility or was it "not his fault"?

2. Is he showing any signs of maturation after speaking to the people and coaches close to him?

And most importantly

3. I'd tell him if we selected him, it would be dependent on HIM actively reaching out to, developing and maintaining a relationship with both Champ and Prime.

If he hits those points, I go after him hard without ANY hesitation.

Jenkins? :puff:

socalorado
04-11-2012, 10:10 AM
There's a wealth of things that bother me about him.

None are on the field.

So if its between Still and Kirk at #25, who does DEN take?

TheReverend
04-11-2012, 10:12 AM
So if its between Still and Kirk at #25, who does DEN take?

I'm on the phone with Houston offering 2,3,4 and a lifetime supply of Xanders' Blowjobs for #26.

razorwire77
04-11-2012, 10:13 AM
Someone explain what the logic behind drafting an unknown young NFL commodity at running back in the first round would be, when a known, young, NFL commodity (Jonathan Stewart) could probably be had for a late 2nd rounder. I mean if a top 5/10 talent like Richardson falls to 25 that's one thing, but Miller or Martin in the first? With the needs this team has at DT, MLB, Will, interior line depth and WR depth. It makes no sense.

socalorado
04-11-2012, 10:15 AM
I'm on the phone with Houston offering 2,3,4 and a lifetime supply of Xanders' Blowjobs for #26.

Good lord.
The correct answer was pass on both.

socalorado
04-11-2012, 10:16 AM
Someone explain what the logic behind drafting an unknown young NFL commodity at running back in the first round, when a known NFL commodity (Jonathan Stewart) could probably be had for a late 2nd rounder. I mean if a top 5/10 talent like Richard falls to 25 that's one thing, but Miller or Martin in the first? With the needs this team has at DT, MLB, Will, interior line depth and WR depth. It makes no sense.

I think JStew will be a draft day trade, and he will go for a 3rd.
CAR is just asking for more now, hoping to reel in a sucker, but by draft day, they will balk and give him up for a 3rd.

TheReverend
04-11-2012, 10:19 AM
Good lord.
The correct answer was pass on both.

You're insane.

razorwire77
04-11-2012, 10:21 AM
I think JStew will be a draft day trade, and he will go for a 3rd.
CAR is just asking for more now, hoping to reel in a sucker, but by draft day, they will balk and give him up for a 3rd.

I hope you're right. A late 3rd for JStew would be a steal.

That One Guy
04-11-2012, 10:22 AM
What would a draft thread be if Rev weren't trying to campaign for more corners...

TheReverend
04-11-2012, 10:24 AM
What would a draft thread be if Rev weren't trying to campaign for more corners...

This is a new phenomena dictated by circumstance, I assure you. It doesn't predate last year.

That One Guy
04-11-2012, 10:34 AM
This is a new phenomena dictated by circumstance, I assure you. It doesn't predate last year.

Ahh, ok. Just know for these last two it's been hot and steady.

Just pickin' either way. I see corner as I see WR. Maybe the players are good but put in position to fail, maybe they fail because they suck. Until we adjust around them and evaluate, it's just hard to say. Of course, I'm ignorant in the ways of most things so maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about.

Lestat
04-11-2012, 10:52 AM
the draft pick is cheaper, under organizational control(baseball term for pre arbitration years) for 3-4 years before we have to pony up more money and you can find a guy who fits exactly what you want in your RB, not to mention you'd get a guy with fresh treads on the tire.
Someone explain what the logic behind drafting an unknown young NFL commodity at running back in the first round would be, when a known, young, NFL commodity (Jonathan Stewart) could probably be had for a late 2nd rounder. I mean if a top 5/10 talent like Richardson falls to 25 that's one thing, but Miller or Martin in the first? With the needs this team has at DT, MLB, Will, interior line depth and WR depth. It makes no sense.

TheReverend
04-11-2012, 11:04 AM
Ahh, ok. Just know for these last two it's been hot and steady.

Just pickin' either way. I see corner as I see WR. Maybe the players are good but put in position to fail, maybe they fail because they suck. Until we adjust around them and evaluate, it's just hard to say. Of course, I'm ignorant in the ways of most things so maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about.

.............what?

DarkHorse
04-11-2012, 11:05 AM
This years draft is 'meh' for me, not really much i'm interested in this year. Just doesn't seem to be an exciting type of draft - 2 top QB's and a bunch of 'hope they pan out' guys. Dunno what it is, can't wait for the draft but really don't care who/what we pick up as long as they pan out.

Would like to see Rb, Cb, Dt, Lb at some point in whatever order.

That One Guy
04-11-2012, 11:13 AM
.............what?

The whole "maybe if the DL were consistent, the corners could be too" argument. There was definitely pressure last year but there was definitely droughts in it, too. I'm a believer in the fact that good corners make the DL better and vice versa. Bad DL also makes the corners worse and vice versa. I just don't necessarily know if we need to gut the squad though the fact that those from the bottom of the depth chart were passing up starting DBs by the end of the season is probably pretty telling.

That One Guy
04-11-2012, 11:14 AM
This years draft is 'meh' for me, not really much i'm interested in this year. Just doesn't seem to be an exciting type of draft - 2 top QB's and a bunch of 'hope they pan out' guys. Dunno what it is, can't wait for the draft but really don't care who/what we pick up as long as they pan out.

Would like to see Rb, Cb, Dt, Lb at some point in whatever order.

For me, I think I have to see it before I can believe that we're in win now mode. It's easy to be excited when you think you're missing that one guy to put you over the top but I'm just not there yet with my enthusiasm. I think they need cogs at this point and a cog isn't necessarily exciting.

TheReverend
04-11-2012, 11:16 AM
The whole "maybe if the DL were consistent, the corners could be too" argument. There was definitely pressure last year but there was definitely droughts in it, too. I'm a believer in the fact that good corners make the DL better and vice versa. Bad DL also makes the corners worse and vice versa. I just don't necessarily know if we need to gut the squad though the fact that those from the bottom of the depth chart were passing up starting DBs by the end of the season is probably pretty telling.

Oh come on. We got chewed apart 15 yards at a time.

Almost always at Goodman.

The DL can't do **** when guys are running buck ****ing wild all day.

fontaine
04-11-2012, 11:29 AM
OK, so with that being said, which likely DT that will be there at #25 does DEN take?
Lets say Poe, Brockers and Cox are gone. Who?

I have no idea. I don't invest heavily in any one player but I've heard good things about the DT class this year being full of guys that project as decent starters to the usual blue chip prospects in the top ten.

The point simply being that you try to get as much value from your pick as possible. That doesn't mean draft value, it means which guy is projected to come in and actually play a number of snaps and improve the quality of play.

At RB, any guy we pick would be mired behind McGahee and be competing behind Moreno for the third down/change of pace back playing 15-20% of offensive snaps.

Whereas we don't have a single penetrative UT who can push the pocket from the interior when both Ayers/Doom will be commanding the attention outside.

Last year down the stretch we saw a lot of teams beat us this way where they spread us out then gave Von/Doom the outside rush only to have the QB step up in the pocket because there was no push from the interior.

A rookie UT won't have to learn multiple moves, techniques or even be a complete player in his first year. Just slot him in the nickel packages (about 30-40% of snaps) and let him go after the QB one on one against an interior OL.

Jason Jones would have been perfect as that DT since he excels at putting pressure from the interior but isn't durable to play as a regular three down starter.

We tried that last year ourselves moving Ayers inside at DT but he's not quick/explosive enough to rush the QB at DE so it's not something he's going to do inside either.

OrangeSe7en
04-11-2012, 11:30 AM
Someone explain what the logic behind drafting an unknown young NFL commodity at running back in the first round would be, when a known, young, NFL commodity (Jonathan Stewart) could probably be had for a late 2nd rounder. I mean if a top 5/10 talent like Richardson falls to 25 that's one thing, but Miller or Martin in the first? With the needs this team has at DT, MLB, Will, interior line depth and WR depth. It makes no sense.

Better than that, you can trade a 5th like they did for Bunkley last year and get a functional DT from a situation where he's underused and/or undervalued.

It's kind of ironic that you would squirm at the idea of drafting an "unkown...commodity" when, historically, defensive lineman are much more risky.

OrangeSe7en
04-11-2012, 11:32 AM
I have no idea. I don't invest heavily in any one player but I've heard good things about the DT class this year being full of guys that project as decent starters to the usual blue chip prospects in the top ten.

The point simply being that you try to get as much value from your pick as possible. That doesn't mean draft value, it means which guy is projected to come in and actually play a number of snaps and improve the quality of play.

At RB, any guy we pick would be mired behind McGahee and be competing behind Moreno for the third down/change of pace back playing 15-20% of offensive snaps.
Whereas we don't have a single penetrative UT who can push the pocket from the interior when both Ayers/Doom will be commanding the attention outside.

Last year down the stretch we saw a lot of teams beat us this way where they spread us out then gave Von/Doom the outside rush only to have the QB step up in the pocket because there was no push from the interior.

A rookie UT won't have to learn multiple moves, techniques or even be a complete player in his first year. Just slot him in the nickel packages (about 30-40% of snaps) and let him go after the QB one on one against an interior OL.

Jason Jones would have been perfect as that DT since he excels at putting pressure from the interior but isn't durable to play as a regular three down starter.

We tried that last year ourselves moving Ayers inside at DT but he's not quick/explosive enough to rush the QB at DE so it's not something he's going to do inside either.

How do you know that? McGahee was wearing down and Moreno wasn't very good to begin with. This statement is kind of absurd.

fontaine
04-11-2012, 11:34 AM
Worthy, Stills, or Reyes....DT's are a complete crap shoot anyway.

They're a crap shoot for teams that switch DCs and defenses every one or two years, that don't have a consistent scheme and can't develop players themselves and ask them to constantly switch positions.

Teams like the Steelers, Giants etc that do have that consistency build up the knowledge and know exactly what kind of player to draft and yes they fail at times but they have a much better success rate at hitting DL in the draft because they know what they want to draft.

What we've been doing is drafting guys like Ayers/Moss then asking them to move around to different positions, then back again all the time learning a new defense from a new DC every year.

With Fox/Del Rio that's gone and for the first time in a while we're going to be running the same kind of front 7 two years in a row.

fontaine
04-11-2012, 11:37 AM
How do you know that? McGahee was wearing down and Moreno wasn't very good to begin with. This statement is kind of absurd.

I know because it's obvious the reasons why McGahee was wearing down and why Moreno wasn't very good when running in between the tackles against a loaded box.

That's not happening this year for obvious reasons.

lonestar
04-11-2012, 11:40 AM
No way we should draft a RB in the first two rounds.

Ball/Moreno/Willis will be more than enough this year and there's no point in expecting a rookie RB to come in be entrusted in pass blocking for Manning.

We already are four deep at the pass catching position with Tamme/Dreessen/DT/Decker, and Moreno is a decent pass catcher anway.

The point is that DT is the one position of need and also where a rookie will come in a be expected to play a lot of snaps. I would even be okay with going DT with the first two picks because that would also help build towards the 2013 season when both Warren/Vickerson will be a year older and FAs as well.

Wow another fan thinking again.. a slaute to you..

 hell this could become contagious..

but then there are always a few morons that fall in heat with some other player and will push them until the draft is over and even then some will say I told you so..

lonestar
04-11-2012, 11:42 AM
OK, so with that being said, which likely DT that will be there at #25 does DEN take?
Lets say Poe, Brockers and Cox are gone. Who?

Whom ever is the BPA at DT, deemed by our coaching staff and Elway..

Not sure about Y'all but so far they seem to be making all the right moves.

why is it so hard for folks to get that no matter what we think they will be making the decision..

lonestar
04-11-2012, 11:46 AM
Oh come on. We got chewed apart 15 yards at a time.

Almost always at Goodman.

The DL can't do **** when guys are running buck ****ing wild all day.

Glad to know I was not the only one seeing the back side of his jersey following the WR into the end zone more times than anyone else..

Champ was rarely picked on becasue goody was easy to beat.. when they felt like he might do a better job then they picked on the deep safety..

why becasue they had all day in the pocket to make the throws.. the QB simply stepped up into the pocket when the heat was on from the outside..

OrangeSe7en
04-11-2012, 11:47 AM
I know because it's obvious the reasons why McGahee was wearing down and why Moreno wasn't very good when running in between the tackles against a loaded box.

That's not happening this year for obvious reasons.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. Moreno's garbage. McGahee was much better. After McGahee, there was a huge drop off. McGahee turned 30 last year in case you didn't know.

That One Guy
04-11-2012, 11:55 AM
Glad to know I was not the only one seeing the back side of his jersey following the WR into the end zone more times than anyone else..

Champ was rarely picked on becasue goody was easy to beat.. when they felt like he might do a better job then they picked on the deep safety..

why becasue they had all day in the pocket to make the throws.. the QB simply stepped up into the pocket when the heat was on from the outside..

So.. which position are you taking? DTs, CBs, or both need to be replaced?

socalorado
04-11-2012, 11:59 AM
I have no idea. I don't invest heavily in any one player but I've heard good things about the DT class this year being full of guys that project as decent starters to the usual blue chip prospects in the top ten.

The point simply being that you try to get as much value from your pick as possible. That doesn't mean draft value, it means which guy is projected to come in and actually play a number of snaps and improve the quality of play.

At RB, any guy we pick would be mired behind McGahee and be competing behind Moreno for the third down/change of pace back playing 15-20% of offensive snaps.

Whereas we don't have a single penetrative UT who can push the pocket from the interior when both Ayers/Doom will be commanding the attention outside.

Last year down the stretch we saw a lot of teams beat us this way where they spread us out then gave Von/Doom the outside rush only to have the QB step up in the pocket because there was no push from the interior.

A rookie UT won't have to learn multiple moves, techniques or even be a complete player in his first year. Just slot him in the nickel packages (about 30-40% of snaps) and let him go after the QB one on one against an interior OL.

Jason Jones would have been perfect as that DT since he excels at putting pressure from the interior but isn't durable to play as a regular three down starter.

We tried that last year ourselves moving Ayers inside at DT but he's not quick/explosive enough to rush the QB at DE so it's not something he's going to do inside either.

I think theres plenty of value and that after Cox and Poe the best DT will be Ta'ammu, Reyes and MMartin. All of them are projected to be there in the
2nd. So going after a player like Doug Martin or a CB or an O-linemen like Konz that you know damn well wont be there at #57 isnt such a big deal to me.
And Doug Martin would be the No#1 RB by game 1.

lonestar
04-11-2012, 12:00 PM
They're a crap shoot for teams that switch DCs and defenses every one or two years, that don't have a consistent scheme and can't develop players themselves and ask them to constantly switch positions.

Teams like the Steelers, Giants etc that do have that consistency build up the knowledge and know exactly what kind of player to draft and yes they fail at times but they have a much better success rate at hitting DL in the draft because they know what they want to draft.

What we've been doing is drafting guys like Ayers/Moss then asking them to move around to different positions, then back again all the time learning a new defense from a new DC every year.

With Fox/Del Rio that's gone and for the first time in a while we're going to be running the same kind of front 7 two years in a row.

Your correct both of those teams have great defenses mostly because and defenses every one or two years, that don't have a consistent scheme and can't develop players themselves and ask them to constantly switch positions.

Teams like the Steelers, Giants etc that do have that consistency build up the knowledge and know exactly what kind of player to draft and yes they fail at times but they have a much better success rate at hitting DL in the draft because they know what they want to draft.

What we've been doing is drafting guys like Ayers/Moss then asking them to move around to different positions, then back again all the time learning a new defense from a new DC every year.

With Fox/Del Rio that's gone and for the first time in a while we're going to be running the same kind of front 7 two years in a row.[/QUOTE]

Your correct both of those teams have great defenses mostly because of a stable and good DL.. Many of the Giants DL guys are not day one picks some are as far back as 4-5 round guys.. guys that can learn the same scheme from the same coaches year after year and they also have loads of depth at the spot..


69 Trattou, Justin DE ACT 6'4" 255 8/28/1988 0 Florida
91 Tuck, Justin DE ACT 6'5" 268 3/29/1983 7 Notre Dame
72 Umenyiora, Osi DE ACT 6'3" 255 11/16/1981 9 Troy
94 Kiwanuka, Mathias DE ACT 6'5" 267 3/8/1983 6 Boston College
99 Canty, Chris DE ACT 6'7" 317 11/10/1982 7 Virginia
Marshall, Craig DE ACT 6'4" 279 2/10/1988 0 South Florida
96 Austin, Marvin DT ACT 6'2" 312 1/10/1989 0 North Carolina
Parker, Martin DT ACT 6'2" 303 2/27/1988 0 Richmond
Hendricks, Dwayne DT ACT 6'3" 305 3/17/1986 1 Miami (Fla.)
97 Joseph, Linval DT ACT 6'4" 323 10/10/1988 2 East Carolina

not counting newbies signed already this year seven from the old roster..

Blanc, Mike DE ACT 6'4" 297 4/13/1987 0 Auburn
97 Heyward, Cameron DE ACT 6'5" 288 5/6/1989 0 Ohio State
99 Keisel, Brett DE ACT 6'5" 285 9/19/1978 10 Brigham Young
93 Worilds, Jason DE ACT 6'2" 262 3/3/1988 2 Virginia Tech
96 Hood, Ziggy DT ACT 6'3" 300 2/16/1987 3 Missouri
Weston, Kade DT ACT 6'5" 315 11/29/1986 2 Georgia
65 Woods, Al DT ACT 6'4" 307 3/25/1987 2 LSU
95 Bryant, Corbin DT ACT 6'4" 300 1/4/1988 0 Northwestern

lets hope that we learn from these folks and beef up the DL..

DarkHorse
04-11-2012, 12:27 PM
Didn't we just sign Porter? That should take care of the Goodman problem.....hopefully. I'd be ok with a CB anywhere in this draft. I'd also be fine with handing over a 2nd for Stewart, especially if we're in win now mode. Dude is young and pretty good, proven NFL capable back.

lonestar
04-11-2012, 01:32 PM
Didn't we just sign Porter? That should take care of the Goodman problem.....hopefully. I'd be ok with a CB anywhere in this draft. I'd also be fine with handing over a 2nd for Stewart, especially if we're in win now mode. Dude is young and pretty good, proven NFL capable back.

yes goody should be gone UNLESS he takes a huge cut in pay..

But in the NFL you can never have to many CB's and RBs I will hope they draft or sign more Fa's to learn from the master..

Lestat
04-11-2012, 02:07 PM
we still need another CB, i'd wait til round 4 or later to address it unless Jenkins falls to us in the 2nd. we need young guys who can be developed. Bailey & Goodman are not getting any younger and Goodman isn't getting any better, we'd be one injury away from Goodman starting again.

BossBruce
04-11-2012, 07:36 PM
Can get him in the later rounds... this is a weak Rb class.

There's T Richardson and a drastic fall off from there.

fontaine
04-12-2012, 04:15 AM
I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. Moreno's garbage. McGahee was much better. After McGahee, there was a huge drop off. McGahee turned 30 last year in case you didn't know.

It's pretty simple:


1. Moreno was garbage last year because he was asked to run inside the tackles against a loaded box when that's not his strong suit. He's an elusive back, not a pounder like McGahee. He's much suited to running outside because he doesn't have that vision or patience.

2. McGahee wore down because of the amount of carries he logged due to a completely one dimensional offfense with no passing game. And he was facing those same 8/9 defenders on first and second down. Forget McGahee, no RB, regardless of age is going to have fresh legs down the stretch with that kind of weekly wear and tear.

If we see those two issues repeat then it'll be because either Manning completely sucks now or gets injured and doesn't play because we're NOT going to see stacked fronts loaded against the run and guys like Moreno/Ball will have much more room to run outside.

Do you really think McGahee will be logging as many carries per game in a Manning offense?

fontaine
04-12-2012, 04:24 AM
Just another thing on Moreno.

Yes he's been disapointing but at some point in time we have to stop asking him to do what he either can't or isn't good at (like being a strict workhorse back toting the rock in between the tackles against a loaded box), and start getting him into positions to use his strengths, like catching the ball in space, running behind/off tackle where he doesn't have to fight through as much traffic.

We were hamstrung before because our passing offense didn't support that kind of game, but with Manning on board, Moreno can play a much more important role as a true third down back contingent on him staying healthy ofcourse.

cutthemdown
04-12-2012, 04:46 AM
Ok lets not ask Moreno to pass block, run between the tackles, run on 3rd and short, or 2nd and short, he's avg catching the ball so lets not throw to him unless he's an outlet. Also better not give him too many carries he might get injured or bruise his Mogina. let's just face it fans of the other afc west teams were right on this one. Dude is a total bust and if we get a young back in the draft we will sit him 3rd or 4th string. He's only making like 800 thousand so its not like hes expensive.

He will get his shot for carries in TC.

BroncoBuff
04-12-2012, 04:58 AM
This would work:

1 - Jerel Worthy
2 - Chris Polk
3 - Ron Brooks/Chase Minnifield
4 - Zebrie Sanders
4 - Robert Turbin
5 - Audie Cole
6 - Akiem Hicks/Hebron Fanguko

razorwire77
04-12-2012, 10:31 AM
It's pretty simple:


1. Moreno was garbage last year because he was asked to run inside the tackles against a loaded box when that's not his strong suit. He's an elusive back, not a pounder like McGahee. He's much suited to running outside because he doesn't have that vision or patience.


The thing is at the NFL level he isn't elusive and doesn't run well outside either. He lacks the top end speed to run away from NFL defensive backs. He lacks the quickness to catch a corner and break runs outside. He isn't good at making defenders miss in space.

He's a decent blocker and I think he has above average hands and runs decent routes. If he can stay healthy, he could thrive in 3rd down role in a Manning offense. But I think he lacks the ability and talent to ever live up to being a top 15 pick.

vancejohnson82
04-12-2012, 10:42 AM
I just don't get Moreno....i thought one of his best attributes was his ability to catch the ball out of the backfield in college

OrangeSe7en
04-12-2012, 04:34 PM
It's pretty simple:


1. Moreno was garbage last year because he was asked to run inside the tackles against a loaded box when that's not his strong suit. He's an elusive back, not a pounder like McGahee. He's much suited to running outside because he doesn't have that vision or patience.

2. McGahee wore down because of the amount of carries he logged due to a completely one dimensional offfense with no passing game. And he was facing those same 8/9 defenders on first and second down. Forget McGahee, no RB, regardless of age is going to have fresh legs down the stretch with that kind of weekly wear and tear.

If we see those two issues repeat then it'll be because either Manning completely sucks now or gets injured and doesn't play because we're NOT going to see stacked fronts loaded against the run and guys like Moreno/Ball will have much more room to run outside.

Do you really think McGahee will be logging as many carries per game in a Manning offense?

Interesting. I didn't realize that there were still people defending Moreno.




But to answer your question, yes, I expect Denver to still run the ball. It's what allowed Elway to win 2 SBs. It also took pressure off of Elway and allowed him to be more effective since defenses had to respect the run. And with Manning's injury situation, I'm guessing that they won't want to over rely on him.

BroncoBeavis
04-12-2012, 05:01 PM
1. Moreno was garbage last year because he was asked to run inside the tackles against a loaded box when that's not his strong suit. He's an elusive back, not a pounder like McGahee. He's much suited to running outside because he doesn't have that vision or patience.

Moreno basically played 3 games with Tebow this year. Two of them (Miami and Detroit) were before we really changed the offense all that much. Moreno played more games under Orton than Tebow this season. Not even counting prior years where lackluster is the only adequate description.

2. McGahee wore down because of the amount of carries he logged due to a completely one dimensional offfense with no passing game. And he was facing those same 8/9 defenders on first and second down. Forget McGahee, no RB, regardless of age is going to have fresh legs down the stretch with that kind of weekly wear and tear.

Willis broke down because he's old, and that's what happens to old RB's. He had 249 attempts last year, or about 100 less carries than a guy like MJD. I doubt he was even top 10 in rushing attempts.

barryr
04-12-2012, 09:09 PM
There is no question the Broncos will be bringing in a RB to have more depth there, plus a good running game helps any QB. Moreno could help in the passing game, but if McGahee went down, the Broncos would be in trouble. Lance Ball isn't the answer either.

broncos-rock
04-12-2012, 09:59 PM
There is no question the Broncos will be bringing in a RB to have more depth there, plus a good running game helps any QB. Moreno could help in the passing game, but if McGahee went down, the Broncos would be in trouble. Lance Ball isn't the answer either.

The answer is Mario Fanin!

barryr
04-12-2012, 10:08 PM
The answer is Mario Fanin!

I'm interested in what he can do, but an undrafted free agent RB coming off injury should not stop a team from looking at a better option.

lonestar
04-13-2012, 12:14 AM
The thing is at the NFL level he isn't elusive and doesn't run well outside either. He lacks the top end speed to run away from NFL defensive backs. He lacks the quickness to catch a corner and break runs outside. He isn't good at making defenders miss in space.

He's a decent blocker and I think he has above average hands and runs decent routes. If he can stay healthy, he could thrive in 3rd down role in a Manning offense. But I think he lacks the ability and talent to ever live up to being a top 15 pick.

Not sure just how many 3rd down situations we should expect from Manning..

If he is on target and and has the players, he will eat you alive with first down passes..

fontaine
04-13-2012, 03:15 AM
There is no question the Broncos will be bringing in a RB to have more depth there, plus a good running game helps any QB. Moreno could help in the passing game, but if McGahee went down, the Broncos would be in trouble. Lance Ball isn't the answer either.

By all means, bring in RB depth, but there's a difference in bringing in depth, and spending a first/second round pick for depth when we already have two guys in Moreno/Willis.

If you're going down the injury route, then why not draft a LT in case Clady gets injured, CB in case Champ pulls a hamstring again, or just a wild guess here, DT in case Warren/Vickerson get injured again.

fontaine
04-13-2012, 03:21 AM
Interesting. I didn't realize that there were still people defending Moreno.




But to answer your question, yes, I expect Denver to still run the ball. It's what allowed Elway to win 2 SBs. It also took pressure off of Elway and allowed him to be more effective since defenses had to respect the run. And with Manning's injury situation, I'm guessing that they won't want to over rely on him.

The question isn't about running the ball, it's cleary about McGahee's ability to run hard late in the season instead of wearing down and that's directly affected by the number of carries he has, especially against stacked fronts.

With Manning I just don't see how McGahee/Moreno are going to face as many defenders in the box and run as often on 2nd/3rd down and that's pretty much a given.

The entire dynamic/emphasis of our offense has changed and Fox realizes that. It's why we let Larsen leave, and why the FO didn't actively pursue a RB in the offseason even though Moreno is coming back from a serious injury.

They're not going to do a complete 180 and draft a 1st/2nd day RB.

Agamemnon
04-13-2012, 06:18 AM
Not sure just how many 3rd down situations we should expect from Manning..

If he is on target and and has the players, he will eat you alive with first down passes..

Plenty. Manning needs three downs like every other quarterback to reliably generate points.

barryr
04-13-2012, 06:51 AM
By all means, bring in RB depth, but there's a difference in bringing in depth, and spending a first/second round pick for depth when we already have two guys in Moreno/Willis.

If you're going down the injury route, then why not draft a LT in case Clady gets injured, CB in case Champ pulls a hamstring again, or just a wild guess here, DT in case Warren/Vickerson get injured again.

Because if you follow the NFL as long as I have, you would notice RB's tend to get hurt the most of any other player, so the more you have, the better. The teams that tend to do the best, are the ones that usually draft for BPA and don't draft for need with their higher picks at least. Other than Reyes, there is no DT who is a legit BPA at 25, so taking one there I would find stupid. Trade down at least.

fontaine
04-13-2012, 07:12 AM
Because if you follow the NFL as long as I have, you would notice RB's tend to get hurt the most of any other player, so the more you have, the better. The teams that tend to do the best, are the ones that usually draft for BPA and don't draft for need with their higher picks at least. Other than Reyes, there is no DT who is a legit BPA at 25, so taking one there I would find stupid. Trade down at least.

I'm not advocating against taking a RB in the draft, just not in the first two rounds because we have other pressing needs.

barryr
04-13-2012, 07:17 AM
I'm not advocating against taking a RB in the draft, just not in the first two rounds because we have other pressing needs.

But there you go, "needs." Sure, DT is an obvious need, but taking a lesser player, overdraft, just to fill a need typically doesn't work so well. Free agency is where the needs should be taken care of for the most part. A RB is a need area since McGahee had a season most didn't expect, is older and there is not a true RB on the roster that can really do the job if he went down. And don't tell me Manning doesn't need a RB. At 36, Elway did.

cmhargrove
04-13-2012, 07:19 AM
The answer is Mario Fanin!

I would like to see him at least step up and knock Lance Ball down the depth chart before giving him 20 carries a game. There was good press about Fanin last TC, hopefully he is all healed up and ready to bring it this year. We could use a 235lb bruiser to take some carries from Willis.

It would make for a very entertaining game plan to have a 235lb bowling ball smashing it between the Tackles, combined with Manning's pass attack.

fontaine
04-13-2012, 08:12 AM
But there you go, "needs." Sure, DT is an obvious need, but taking a lesser player, overdraft, just to fill a need typically doesn't work so well. Free agency is where the needs should be taken care of for the most part. A RB is a need area since McGahee had a season most didn't expect, is older and there is not a true RB on the roster that can really do the job if he went down. And don't tell me Manning doesn't need a RB. At 36, Elway did.

It's never as simple as BPA vs Need. It's a combination of both (ie Best DT available at 25 vs Best CB available at 25 vs Best WR avaible at 25 etc), vs other considerations like character, scheme etc.

It's not as simple as one or the other.

razorwire77
04-13-2012, 09:16 AM
The answer is Mario Fanin!

Before the injury, I liked the combination of size, burst, and vision he showed in camp. But the road to hell is paved with training camp potential.

OrangeSe7en
04-13-2012, 12:52 PM
The question isn't about running the ball, it's cleary about McGahee's ability to run hard late in the season instead of wearing down and that's directly affected by the number of carries he has, especially against stacked fronts.

With Manning I just don't see how McGahee/Moreno are going to face as many defenders in the box and run as often on 2nd/3rd down and that's pretty much a given.

The entire dynamic/emphasis of our offense has changed and Fox realizes that. It's why we let Larsen leave, and why the FO didn't actively pursue a RB in the offseason even though Moreno is coming back from a serious injury.
They're not going to do a complete 180 and draft a 1st/2nd day RB.

I think the emphasis will be on balance like what you saw at the end of Elway's career. He specifically mentioned what Shanahan did for him at the end of his career when talking about bringing in Manning. If the team is balanced, then defenses are still going to respect the run. When the Vikings had Peterson and Favre, the opposing defenses didn't let Peterson run wild because they were only focused on Favre. Peterson is actually a big reason that Favre had such a big year.

And if the Broncos truly want a double fisted offense, they're going to need to upgrade at RB. Moreno sucks and relying on McGahee like they did last year is too risky.

Also, in the end, they just need to get an impact player at 25, whether it's Miller, Hightower, or whoever. The worst thing you can do is draft out of desperation. If you don't think a DT at 25 will make an impact but you think al LB or a RB will, then take the LB or RB.

barryr
04-13-2012, 01:53 PM
It's never as simple as BPA vs Need. It's a combination of both (ie Best DT available at 25 vs Best CB available at 25 vs Best WR avaible at 25 etc), vs other considerations like character, scheme etc.

It's not as simple as one or the other.

And if the Broncos didn't have other holes, then focusing just on DT would make sense. BPA for a position you need help is what consistent winning teams tend to do in their drafts.

BroncoBeavis
04-13-2012, 03:14 PM
Not sure just how many 3rd down situations we should expect from Manning..

If he is on target and and has the players, he will eat you alive with first down passes..

1st down passes? But I was told Peyton would be learning the Mike McCoy offense. :)

27atwater
04-13-2012, 04:36 PM
I think it comes down to BPA vs dont do sumthin idiotic.


If the Pats are up and the BPA is a QB or a TE, then they go down the list a bit. Cuz those spots are LOCKED and LOADED and it would be idiotic to use the pick on those spots. Otherwise, ya go w/ BPA. How many times have the Steelers taken a LB or DL when their D was already set?

Chiefs took Larry Johnson. Panthers took Jon Stewart. Both already had stud RBs. Both NEEDED the guys they drafted shortly thereafter. We're not so good at ANY position that we couldn't use more help.

barryr
04-13-2012, 04:51 PM
I think it comes down to BPA vs dont do sumthin idiotic.


If the Pats are up and the BPA is a QB or a TE, then they go down the list a bit. Cuz those spots are LOCKED and LOADED and it would be idiotic to use the pick on those spots. Otherwise, ya go w/ BPA. How many times have the Steelers taken a LB or DL when their D was already set?

Chiefs took Larry Johnson. Panthers took Jon Stewart. Both already had stud RBs. Both NEEDED the guys they drafted shortly thereafter. We're not so good at ANY position that we couldn't use more help.

Agreed. It is always best to draft the best talent than just take someone who plays a position you need. Use free agency for that. The Broncos trading down makes the most sense to me, if they can find a taker which there is usually at least one team looking to move up for some player at least.

pricejj
04-13-2012, 05:07 PM
Doug Martin's nickname from one of his teammates is "muscle hamster" because he is 5'09" 223 lbs.

Hilarious!

underrated29
04-13-2012, 05:09 PM
uhhh..

Moreno is the best pass blocker on the team. He also does not have average hands, perhaps some of the best hands on the team. Also, he does get to the edge and outside a lot and very well.


Have you guys seen any of his runs, that arent up the middle or up the ass of the OL in front of him?



If the guy gets the ball in space, or close to the edge he is pretty damn good. I suspect, he will have a darren sproles type year. Where he will devastate teams catching passes out of the back field and dump offs and on screens. (Screens-if mccoy doesnt call the plays that is)- as far as running up the gut- well, we all know what happens there ( ) <----look inside.

Tombstone RJ
04-13-2012, 06:07 PM
So if its between Still and Kirk at #25, who does DEN take?

kirkpatrick is who you take at 25 if that's the choice...

pricejj
04-13-2012, 06:38 PM
kirkpatrick is who you take at 25 if that's the choice...

to backup Porter? That makes no freaking sense whatsoever.

Tombstone RJ
04-13-2012, 08:01 PM
to backup Porter? That makes no freaking sense whatsoever.

Its just much better value than taking Still. Now if it is Cox and Kirkpatric then I take Cox or if Brockers if he is there. But Still, nah, I take Kirkpatrick before him if they are both available.

pricejj
04-13-2012, 08:07 PM
Its just much better value than taking Still. Now if it was Cox and Kirkpatric then I'd take Cox or if Brockers if he was there. But Still, nah, I'd take Kirkpatrick before him if they were both available.

I want an Offensive player in the 1st, not a DT. Yes, I believe Kirkpatrick has better value than Still and Brockers, but not Cox.