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pricejj
04-05-2012, 11:46 PM
With the meteoric rise of Ryan Tannehill (QB) and Stephon Gilmore (CB) there is an increasingly likely chance that a top RT will fall in the lap of the Broncos at #25.

It seems as though the Broncos are forced to pick a DT in the 1st round of the draft. Could the Broncos incompetence in signing free agent DT's rob Peyton Manning of having a true RT in Denver?


Player Pos. Height Weight Forty Three-cone
Jonathan Martin OT 6'051" 312 lbs 5.29s 7.69s
Mike Adams OT 6'070" 323 lbs 5.40s 7.94s
Bobby Massie OT 6'056" 316 lbs 5.23s 7.70s
OrlandoFranklin RT 6'054" 316 lbs 5.11s 8.37s

Observe Orlando Franklin's lack of foot speed in the three-cone drill compared to the 3, 4, and 5th rated OT's in the 2012 draft. You're right, you weren't just seeing things, as Franklin whiffed on faster DE's all year, the most important of which came against New England's Rob Ninkovich in the playoffs. Ninkovich twice sacked Tebow almost instaneously after the snap, leaving Tebow bleeding internally with loose cartilage around his ribcage. There is no coincidence that Franklin played LG at Miami. Is EFX taking a serious gamble on $96M Peyton Manning's security?

Tom Nalen recently said "pick Lineman in the 1st round...Offensive Lineman". New England seems to have it right, what will Denver do?

Harvitz81
04-06-2012, 12:22 AM
In before thread is deleted.

Prodigal19
04-06-2012, 12:25 AM
In before above post is deleted. Good thread. I agree

Shananahan
04-06-2012, 12:27 AM
Might want to edit the edit.

BroncoMan4ever
04-06-2012, 12:28 AM
i would love it if Harris was healthy. then we get a top notch RT slide Franklin inside to LG an have a badass line.

Houshyamama
04-06-2012, 12:29 AM
I would be fine with an offensive tackle pick in the first, but I don't know if there will be anybody worth grabbing. Realistically, any defensive lineman we pick this year will have a limited impact initially, an offensive lineman has a much better chance of excelling early.

Shananahan
04-06-2012, 12:56 AM
Realistically, any defensive lineman we pick this year will have a limited impact initially, an offensive lineman has a much better chance of excelling early.
I've seen this comment made multiple times around here recently and I don't understand it at all.

You should use the draft to keep your roster filled with talent and to ensure you don't ever end up with the type of gaping holes Denver now has at defensive tackle, not to simply grab the guy who has the most potential to make an impact in the immediate season.

UberBroncoMan
04-06-2012, 01:04 AM
i would love it if Harris was healthy. then we get a top notch RT slide Franklin inside to LG an have a badass line.

Yep. He was a top RT before the injuries piled up.

pricejj
04-06-2012, 01:17 AM
Yep. He was a top RT before the injuries piled up.

I have high hopes for Harris too, but I literally have heard nothing about him since he resigned.

KevinJames
04-06-2012, 01:22 AM
would be a wasted draft pick

pricejj
04-06-2012, 01:35 AM
would be a wasted draft pick

Remember profootballweekly had the Broncos Offensive Line rated as the 30th best in the league last year? That ain't too good.

Maybe you would rather start by replacing Walton with Konz?

I know Xanders wishes the problem would just go away, unfortunately it's a little more complicated than that.

Shananahan
04-06-2012, 01:40 AM
Why not just convert Crick into a RT? He ran a 7.47, and will be around later on.

KevinJames
04-06-2012, 01:58 AM
Remember profootballweekly had the Broncos Offensive Line rated as the 30th best in the league last year? That ain't too good.

Maybe you would rather start by replacing Walton with Konz?

I know Xanders wishes the problem would just go away, unfortunately it's a little more complicated than that.

Yeah I also remember we had a QB who was terrible at being a pocket passer and he held onto the ball too long.

Franklin will be fine, he played good for being a rookie that had to worry about protecting the blind side of a QB that held onto the ball too long.

bowtown
04-06-2012, 03:22 AM
Nothing like replacing a guy because he wasn't all-pro in his rookie season with another rookie and then expecting different results. When it comes to developing players some people have the patience of a 3 year-old... or Josh McDaniels.

UberBroncoMan
04-06-2012, 03:57 AM
Nothing like replacing a guy because he wasn't all-pro in his rookie season with another rookie and then expecting different results. When it comes to developing players some people have the patience of a 3 year-old... or Josh McDaniels.

I think the thing with Franklin is that our LG isn't that good and Franklin played LG in college, not RT. So he'd go to his natural position, one that's less stressful in pass protection (his weakness) and one far better suited for his aggressive talents.

As for us drafting Konz. We'd have signed Jeff Saturday if we didn't want Walton anymore.

cutthemdown
04-06-2012, 04:13 AM
If KONZ the center falls we have to take him IMO. Or if we did snag a better RT could Franklin play guard. He seems like more a guard to me. Like a road grading guard. I am all for more oline. DT is a huge gap also though. Really just like last yr Broncos have multiple spots they are weak at. We could use a WR, RB, OG, C, DT, MLB

cutthemdown
04-06-2012, 04:20 AM
I think the thing with Franklin is that our LG isn't that good and Franklin played LG in college, not RT. So he'd go to his natural position, one that's less stressful in pass protection (his weakness) and one far better suited for his aggressive talents.

As for us drafting Konz. We'd have signed Jeff Saturday if we didn't want Walton anymore.

Maybe, unless Broncos didn't want him super bad because they figured either Walton is decent, or maybe Konz is there in the draft.

eddie mac
04-06-2012, 04:59 AM
Right Tackle is about 102nd on the Broncos list of current needs, right after new dietician and new nike baseball caps.

elsid13
04-06-2012, 05:27 AM
Right Tackle is about 102nd on the Broncos list of current needs, right after new dietician and new nike baseball caps.

I kinda disagree. There is little to no depth on the line and center/LG position are slightly below average at this point. Add in the fact it will take time for Kuper to recovery and there is need for offense line help for Manning.

If someone like Cordy Glenn (LT/LG) is sitting there at 25 then there is strong chance they might draft him.

Drek
04-06-2012, 06:07 AM
If the Broncos thought Franklin was a better fit at LG instead of RT don't you think they'd have played him at LG last year instead of Zane Beadles who spent almost his entire collegiate career and a good portion of his rookie year playing OT?

They moved Franklin to RT and Beadles from RT to LG specifically because they think that is where each player has their best chance for success. That is probably due to how much the offense liked running to the right last year with Beadles pulling in behind Kuper and Franklin (it was the single best skill Beadles displayed all last season). You can't do that with someone like Franklin.

Three cone drills also aren't the be all end all of lateral mobility. Wing span (or arm length) and how well a player can generate leverage after moving play a big role on the outside. If you're rating Franklin strictly as a measurables guy you'd see a 6'5" guy with an arm length comparable to Nate Solder (6'8") Gabe Carimi (6'7"), and Tyron Smith (6'5"). He's got the right body dimensions for an OT and has an explosive first step (broad jump is up there with Solder and Carimi as well).

His problems with speed rushers last year stem from being very raw. Magazu knows what the **** he's doing on the OL, if he thinks Franklin is an RT then that's good enough to roll with.

Drek
04-06-2012, 06:09 AM
I kinda disagree. There is little to no depth on the line and center/LG position are slightly below average at this point. Add in the fact it will take time for Kuper to recovery and there is need for offense line help for Manning.

If someone like Cordy Glenn (LT/LG) is sitting there at 25 then there is strong chance they might draft him.

The lack of depth and the questions about Kuper show a need for interior linemen, not OTs. We definitely need more depth on the interior, but with Clady at LT, Franklin at RT, and Harris as the swing tackle we're looking good on the outsides.

CEH
04-06-2012, 06:11 AM
IMO

Peyton Manning would not in a million years come to Denver if Denver had the type of Oline that alot of fans on this messageboard thinks Denver has.

Glenn is a LG/LT type that has verasatility so he would be a great pick but he'll be gone.

Denver is will not draft a true RT at #25. That would be the ultimate waste of the Manning signing. A playmaker on either side of the ball would be a much better selection

BTW been on the Gilmore bandwagon for a month now. Would love for Denver to draft the kid. Press man in Del Rio's defense a perfect match

In addition

"It seems as though the Broncos are forced to pick a DT in the 1st round of the draft." - never a true statement

Jay3
04-06-2012, 06:42 AM
I think it's an issue. The sniping that will occur all season long is in the cards right now -- the O-line has limitations, and is very thin in depth. One of those limitations is Franklin's ability to block against a speed rush from the outside.

barryr
04-06-2012, 06:53 AM
I would take Martin if deciding one of those OT's. But I have been a big believer for awhile that Franklin should be playing LG. The 3 cone drill is a good indicator of how a player's feet move and change of direction. Sure, a player who has slow feet can compensate by being very good at anticipating, but nothing beats quick feet, especially for OT's. But I doubt the Broncos would draft an OT with their top pick anyway.

cmhargrove
04-06-2012, 07:13 AM
I would take Martin if deciding one of those OT's. But I have been a big believer for awhile that Franklin should be playing LG. The 3 cone drill is a good indicator of how a player's feet move and change of direction. Sure, a player who has slow feet can compensate by being very good at anticipating, but nothing beats quick feet, especially for OT's. But I doubt the Broncos would draft an OT with their top pick anyway.

Well said.

We have so many holes, we can hardly go wrong. However, the thinking on taking a true RT in the first round is a very sound idea IF you have first round talent there at your pick. Our team is now the Peyton Manning Broncos (like it or not). So, protecting our $96 million dollar investement should be priority #1 - even over solidifying the defense (yes, I just said it). Manning proved he could win a superbowl with the leagues worst run defense (regular season).

If we can upgrade your bookends with first round talent - do it! However, there is no pressure to do this unless the right guy falls to our spot. If he is the BPA, so be it.

Watch all of Franklin's film, all the way back to college. He doesn't have Tackle feet, he plays like a Guard. He will be exposed in a pass first system. Once again, I love the kid, but at his current "bruiser" weight, that will never, ever change. My son is a collegiate OG and currently weighs about 340+ because that's what his role is - road grader. If he was kicking back out to Tackle, the first thing he would do is lose about 25 pounds and focus on speed work. Franklin is a road grading Guard, and if he switched to LG, he could be an All-Pro.

About the Center position, I don't know why everyone is so gaga about Konz. With his lack of upper body strength, he probably needs a year to develop. If you want a Center, take Molk in rounds 3-4. He won the Rimington award as the nations top Center.

pricejj
04-06-2012, 08:48 AM
...About the Center position, I don't know why everyone is so gaga about Konz. With his lack of upper body strength, he probably needs a year to develop. If you want a Center, take Molk in rounds 3-4. He won the Rimington award as the nations top Center.

Quick note: Konz improved to 23 bench reps at his Pro Day (from 18 at the combine). He said he's never been good at the bench press, but showed significant improvement with a little training. Maurkice Pouncey had 25 bench reps at the combine. Nick Mangold had 24.

Konz may be the best Center prospect since Nick Mangold, even better than Maurkice Pouncey.

Not to diss "Trash Can", but PFF did have him rated as the worst Center in the NFL.

...just food for thought.

rugbythug
04-06-2012, 08:56 AM
Franklin can improve- He is literally moving 6-8 feet. So this is not an impossible action to ask of him.

Tebow did not do the line any favors last year. His Cadences were so Regular that everyone in the stadium knew when the ball was being snapped. Not really his fault as that is probably step 6 of 7 to work on for him. However Peyton won't have that problem and will give our O line the element of surprise.

I would love to see a list of Manning's left and right tackles. Money says Clady and Franklin look pretty good in the group.

Irish Stout
04-06-2012, 09:13 AM
Edited for initial misreading.

Also, RT is no longer the blind side of any QB we have on the roster. With Harris re-signed and Franklin improving over the course of last year in pass-pro, its a non issue.

Our O-line's weakness is more often pressure up the middle. However, a lot of the sacks that they were charged with last year were all on a QB who would not stay in the pocket.

cmhargrove
04-06-2012, 09:39 AM
Quick note: Konz improved to 23 bench reps at his Pro Day (from 18 at the combine). He said he's never been good at the bench press, but showed significant improvement with a little training. Maurkice Pouncey had 25 bench reps at the combine. Nick Mangold had 24.

Konz may be the best Center prospect since Nick Mangold, even better than Maurkice Pouncey.

Not to diss "Trash Can", but PFF did have him rated as the worst Center in the NFL.

...just food for thought.

I think Konz will be a really good player, i'm just not convinced he will be a better Center than Molk, which should be available 2-3 rounds later. I know we always need to look at value to our team, but in general I think that Offensive Tackles have value in the first round, Guards and Centers in rounds 2-7.

I'm sure if Peyton is worried about Walton, he won't stay silent about it. He might actually be the guy that helps Walton to the next level.

Rohirrim
04-06-2012, 09:39 AM
Interesting to consider who the pick might be if the Broncos don't like any of the DTs on board at 25. What if a player like Kendall Wright or Dre Kirkpatrick drops? Then, the Broncos would have every reason to go BPA. Mark Barron is the best S in the draft and could be there at 25. I can't imagine the Broncos taking a S that high with much greater needs elsewhere (and Adams on board), but who knows? Somebody brought up Cordy Glenn. He would be a hell of a weapon on the interior. He can probably play either of the tackle positions in a pinch as well.

The Broncos might be fed up with DJ's antics. What if Upshaw is there? Or there could be a dark horse candidate like Zach Brown. I really like Reuben Randle. He dropped a 4.3 forty the other day at LSU's pro-day. I wouldn't put it in the bank that Fox (or Manning) are all that satisfied with the present receiving corps. Another guy to consider is Coby Fleener. Some may disregard him thinking we're set at TE, but there are those in the scouting (and no doubt coaching) ranks who see Coby as more of an all-around receiver, and especially an EZ weapon, than just as a TE. I wish I knew more about what they were thinking in Dove Valley. That's always the frustrating part of the draft.

DBroncos4life
04-06-2012, 10:43 AM
With the meteoric rise of Ryan Tannehill (QB) and Stephon Gilmore (CB) there is an increasingly likely chance that a top RT will fall in the lap of the Broncos at #25.

It seems as though the Broncos are forced to pick a DT in the 1st round of the draft. Could the Broncos incompetence in signing free agent DT's rob Peyton Manning of having a true RT in Denver?


Player Pos. Height Weight Forty Three-cone
Jonathan Martin OT 6'051" 312 lbs 5.29s 7.69s
Mike Adams OT 6'070" 323 lbs 5.40s 7.94s
Bobby Massie OT 6'056" 316 lbs 5.23s 7.70s
OrlandoFranklin RT 6'054" 316 lbs 5.11s 8.37s

Observe Orlando Franklin's lack of foot speed in the three-cone drill compared to the 3, 4, and 5th rated OT's in the 2012 draft. You're right, you weren't just seeing things, as Franklin whiffed on faster DE's all year, the most important of which came against New England's Rob Ninkovich in the playoffs. Ninkovich twice sacked Tebow almost instaneously after the snap, leaving Tebow bleeding internally with loose cartilage around his ribcage. There is no coincidence that Franklin played LG at Miami. Is EFX taking a serious gamble on $96M Peyton Manning's security?

Tom Nalen recently said "pick Lineman in the 1st round...Offensive Lineman". New England seems to have it right, what will Denver do?
I see you highlighted the three cone speed. Been watching the NFL network lately? Is this your new flavor of the week? As for doing it the Pats way, what a ****ing joke. They have drafted just two OL guys in the first round one in 05 and once again 11.

pricejj
04-06-2012, 01:06 PM
I see you highlighted the three cone speed. Been watching the NFL network lately? Is this your new flavor of the week? As for doing it the Pats way, what a ****ing joke. They have drafted just two OL guys in the first round one in 05 and once again 11.

No I haven't been watching NFLN...I don't have cable. I came up with this idea myself.


Patriots OL:
Sebastian Vollmer (RT) 2009 #58 2nd Team All-Pro
Nate Solder (RT) 2011 #17 All-Rookie Team
Brian Waters (RG) 1999 UDFA 6x Pro Bowler
Dan Connolly (C) 2005 UDFA
Logan Mankins (LG) 2005 #32 4x Pro Bowler
Matt Light (RT) 2001 #48 4x Pro Bowler




Broncos OL:
Orlando Franklin (RT) 2011 #46
Chris Kuper (RG) 2006 #161
J.D. Walton (C) 2010 #80
Zane Beadles (LG) 2010 #45
Ryan Clady (RT) 2008 #12 2x Pro Bowl


The Patriots have 5 Offensive Lineman who have received accolades (3 Pro Bowlers). The Broncos have 1.

According to PFF, the Patriots have the 3rd ranked Offensive Line, the Broncos are 30th.

The Broncos need to add ELITE talent on the Offensive Line.

.

DENVERDUI55
04-06-2012, 01:10 PM
Can cricks play ot?

DBroncos4life
04-06-2012, 01:12 PM
No I haven't been watching NFLN...I don't have cable. I came up with this idea myself.


Patriots OL:
Sebastian Vollmer (RT) 2009 #58 2nd Team All-Pro
Nate Solder (RT) 2011 #17 All-Rookie Team
Brian Waters (RG) 1999 UDFA 6x Pro Bowler
Dan Connolly (C) 2005 UDFA
Logan Mankins (LG) 2005 #32 4x Pro Bowler
Matt Light (RT) 2001 #48 4x Pro Bowler




Broncos OL:
Orlando Franklin (RT) 2011 #46
Chris Kuper (RG) 2006 #161
J.D. Walton (C) 2010 #80
Zane Beadles (LG) 2010 #45
Ryan Clady (RT) 2008 #12 2x Pro Bowl


The Patriots have 5 Offensive Lineman who have received accolades (3 Pro Bowlers). The Broncos have 1.

According to PFF, the Patriots have the 3rd ranked Offensive Line, the Broncos are 30th.

The Broncos need to add ELITE talent on the Offensive Line.

.
Funny thing about sending QBs to pro bowls they take OL with them. Manning has been sending OL players to the pro bowl that shouldn't be for years now.

pricejj
04-06-2012, 01:23 PM
Funny thing about sending QBs to pro bowls they take OL with them. Manning has been sending OL players to the pro bowl that shouldn't be for years now.

Mankins and Waters would be Pro Bowlers no matter what team they were on...not sure about Light. Solder is easily Pro Bowl material this year, or next.

ColoradoBuff
04-06-2012, 01:28 PM
only OL i would even think about taking in the 1st would be Konz. And i'm not talking about the Top OT's or OG's...cuz doubt that fall to 25

lonestar
04-06-2012, 01:34 PM
No I haven't been watching NFLN...I don't have cable. I came up with this idea myself.


Patriots OL:
Sebastian Vollmer (RT) 2009 #58 2nd Team All-Pro
Nate Solder (RT) 2011 #17 All-Rookie Team
Brian Waters (RG) 1999 UDFA 6x Pro Bowler
Dan Connolly (C) 2005 UDFA
Logan Mankins (LG) 2005 #32 4x Pro Bowler
Matt Light (RT) 2001 #48 4x Pro Bowler




Broncos OL:
Orlando Franklin (RT) 2011 #46
Chris Kuper (RG) 2006 #161
J.D. Walton (C) 2010 #80
Zane Beadles (LG) 2010 #45
Ryan Clady (RT) 2008 #12 2x Pro Bowl


The Patriots have 5 Offensive Lineman who have received accolades (3 Pro Bowlers). The Broncos have 1.

According to PFF, the Patriots have the 3rd ranked Offensive Line, the Broncos are 30th.

The Broncos need to add ELITE talent on the Offensive Line.

.

That is part of the PAts guys is a maturing part.. most of those guys have been around for a while, MOST of our guys are kiddies..

After your team is established having great starters at most positions then you can start renewing the team with top picks.. or at least using your 1-2s for LOS guys.. but until you get to that point your taking BPA regardless of postition..

as you pointed out they have loads of guys that are #1 or 2 picks on the OL if you also go back and look at who they picked in years past you will see top picks on the DL ..

They can get away from stud players behind the LOS becasue they have great ones on the LOS..

Also as pointed out already having a HOF QB helps those guys to get to pro bowls.

bendog
04-06-2012, 01:37 PM
No offense to Pricejj, but is it just me or does OT not really seem to be a great position depth wise this year? Guard has some mid round possibilities.

KevinJames
04-06-2012, 01:53 PM
No I haven't been watching NFLN...I don't have cable. I came up with this idea myself.


Patriots OL:
Sebastian Vollmer (RT) 2009 #58 2nd Team All-Pro
Nate Solder (RT) 2011 #17 All-Rookie Team
Brian Waters (RG) 1999 UDFA 6x Pro Bowler
Dan Connolly (C) 2005 UDFA
Logan Mankins (LG) 2005 #32 4x Pro Bowler
Matt Light (RT) 2001 #48 4x Pro Bowler




Broncos OL:
Orlando Franklin (RT) 2011 #46
Chris Kuper (RG) 2006 #161
J.D. Walton (C) 2010 #80
Zane Beadles (LG) 2010 #45
Ryan Clady (RT) 2008 #12 2x Pro Bowl


The Patriots have 5 Offensive Lineman who have received accolades (3 Pro Bowlers). The Broncos have 1.

According to PFF, the Patriots have the 3rd ranked Offensive Line, the Broncos are 30th.

The Broncos need to add ELITE talent on the Offensive Line.

.

No they don't. They need to add ELITE talent on defense and at RB.

IMO watch more football games instead of worrying about some BS rating systems......

Peyton never had a great O-line.

Our O-line isn't great but they are above average. Tim Tebow just made it look sometimes like our o-line was so bad but Manning is the polar opposite thats why hes taken less hits and less sacks than most QBs in the league despite having bad offensive lines.

Peyton said one of the reasons why he came was the offensive line and the young play makers at receiver.

Having Tebow & Orton created this big illusion that we have the ****tiest o-line in the history of the NFL the way some of you guys talk jeez.

BroncoMan4ever
04-06-2012, 02:01 PM
I kinda disagree. There is little to no depth on the line and center/LG position are slightly below average at this point. Add in the fact it will take time for Kuper to recovery and there is need for offense line help for Manning.

If someone like Cordy Glenn (LT/LG) is sitting there at 25 then there is strong chance they might draft him.

While it would not surprise me to go OL in the 1st. I think ee go DL. The only way we go offense in the 1st is if all our DL prospects rated that High are gone and there is a value pick OL available. Also depends how the rest of free agency plays out in regards to linemen on both sides

Mogulseeker
04-06-2012, 02:04 PM
I would be fine with an offensive tackle pick in the first, but I don't know if there will be anybody worth grabbing. Realistically, any defensive lineman we pick this year will have a limited impact initially, an offensive lineman has a much better chance of excelling early.

Cordy Glenn might be available at 25.

broncosteven
04-06-2012, 02:05 PM
Right Tackle is about 102nd on the Broncos list of current needs, right after new dietician and new nike baseball caps.

I would rather see them get a C or G though I guess if they got another RT they could move Franklin to G.

I still think the DT position can be filled in the later rounds, I won't go nuts if we grabbed the best RT high if that is what they wanted to do.

DBroncos4life
04-06-2012, 02:37 PM
Mankins and Waters would be Pro Bowlers no matter what team they were on...not sure about Light. Solder is easily Pro Bowl material this year, or next.

RT get as muh love in pro bowl votings as kickers. Harris had about as good as year as any tackles a few years ago and got zero love. It's all about LT's. As for Waters he is about done. He made the Pro Bowl on rep just like Dawkins did. Kuper is every bit as good as Waters is and gets zero credit for what he does.

We got a young OL that was drafted all by us and I for one want to see what they can do with a QB that doesn't hold on to the ball forever.

cmhargrove
04-06-2012, 03:11 PM
RT get as muh love in pro bowl votings as kickers. Harris had about as good as year as any tackles a few years ago and got zero love. It's all about LT's. As for Waters he is about done. He made the Pro Bowl on rep just like Dawkins did. Kuper is every bit as good as Waters is and gets zero credit for what he does.

We got a young OL that was drafted all by us and I for one want to see what they can do with a QB that doesn't hold on to the ball forever.

If I remember correctly, that was the year that Kuper gave up zero sacks? That was some good teamwork on that side of the line.

elsid13
04-06-2012, 03:46 PM
While it would not surprise me to go OL in the 1st. I think ee go DL. The only way we go offense in the 1st is if all our DL prospects rated that High are gone and there is a value pick OL available. Also depends how the rest of free agency plays out in regards to linemen on both sides

With the depth in DT in this draft I would not be surprised if Denver went offensive in the first if there is potential 1st day starter on the board.

broncosteven
04-06-2012, 03:59 PM
With the depth in DT in this draft I would not be surprised if Denver went offensive in the first if there is potential 1st day starter on the board.

I don't care where they pickup their DT's as long as they get at least 1.

I would hate to see them blow a 1st round pick on RB or WR outside that I could live with an offensive 1st round pick.

DBroncos4life
04-06-2012, 03:59 PM
If I remember correctly, that was the year that Kuper gave up zero sacks? That was some good teamwork on that side of the line.

It was very few sacks, I'm not sure if was zero or not. I would bet the farm if Kuper had been playing with Brady or Manning he would have had some Pro Bowl selections by now.

eddie mac
04-08-2012, 03:33 PM
Franklin at RT gives me far more confidence going in this year than various other pencilled in starters at present including.

Beadles at OG
Walton at OC
Warren at DT
Vickerson at DT
Mays at MLB
Woodyard at WLB
either starting S

Nowhere near a priority even bringing in someone to push this kid. With a full offseason he'll excel.

Lestat
04-08-2012, 04:17 PM
yeah i don't really see us moving Franklin. people forget that he was drafted as a OT and ranked as a OT on the Broncos board and Elway was very happy about getting him last year.

he played pretty well as a rookie and i expect that he will continue to get better.
i wouldn't be against moving him inside to G but unless Martin falls there is no reason to take a OT in the first round. too much value in round 2-3 to need to take something early that isn't needed.

DT,LB,CB,RB & WR(if the value is great) are the main needs that you could address in the first.

gyldenlove
04-08-2012, 05:39 PM
No I haven't been watching NFLN...I don't have cable. I came up with this idea myself.


Patriots OL:
Sebastian Vollmer (RT) 2009 #58 2nd Team All-Pro
Nate Solder (RT) 2011 #17 All-Rookie Team
Brian Waters (RG) 1999 UDFA 6x Pro Bowler
Dan Connolly (C) 2005 UDFA
Logan Mankins (LG) 2005 #32 4x Pro Bowler
Matt Light (RT) 2001 #48 4x Pro Bowler




Broncos OL:
Orlando Franklin (RT) 2011 #46
Chris Kuper (RG) 2006 #161
J.D. Walton (C) 2010 #80
Zane Beadles (LG) 2010 #45
Ryan Clady (RT) 2008 #12 2x Pro Bowl


The Patriots have 5 Offensive Lineman who have received accolades (3 Pro Bowlers). The Broncos have 1.

According to PFF, the Patriots have the 3rd ranked Offensive Line, the Broncos are 30th.

The Broncos need to add ELITE talent on the Offensive Line.

.

I call utter bull****. Brandon Merriweather was a 2 time pro-bowler with the Patriots despite being so bad nobody wants him - the pro bowl is a fan contest.

Outside of Logan Mankins that group is a couple of has-beens (Waters and Light) and a couple of young guys with a ton of room for improvement (Solder and Vollmer) and Connolly who is a career backup. The only reason they look is Tom Brady and the tight ends.

Lestat
04-08-2012, 05:43 PM
I call utter bull****. Brandon Merriweather was a 2 time pro-bowler with the Patriots despite being so bad nobody wants him - the pro bowl is a fan contest.

Outside of Logan Mankins that group is a couple of has-beens (Waters and Light) and a couple of young guys with a ton of room for improvement (Solder and Vollmer) and Connolly who is a career backup. The only reason they look is Tom Brady and the tight ends.

yep, that OL is the reason their running game is pretty much pure ****. the one guy who could get it done consistently just bolted to Cincy and Bel likes to play musical chairs with his RB's.

pricejj
04-08-2012, 08:03 PM
Outside of Logan Mankins that group is a couple of has-beens (Waters and Light) and a couple of young guys with a ton of room for improvement (Solder and Vollmer) and Connolly who is a career backup. The only reason they look is Tom Brady and the tight ends.

I would hardly call Brian Waters a has been, he has made the Pro Bowl 3 of the last 4 years (only one with NE). That gives NE 2 legitimate Pro Bowlers in Mankins and Waters, with Solder probably making the Pro Bowl this year.

Clady is the ONLY Bronco Bronco Offensive Lineman who has ever remotely sniffed a Pro Bowl. Kuper is good, but not great, especially in the red zone.

If you think the talent on the Broncos Offensive line is even remotely close to that of New England, then you must be smoking dope

DBroncos4life
04-08-2012, 08:58 PM
I would hardly call Brian Waters a has been, he has made the Pro Bowl 3 of the last 4 years (only one with NE). That gives NE 2 legitimate Pro Bowlers in Mankins and Waters, with Solder probably making the Pro Bowl this year.

Clady is the ONLY Bronco Bronco Offensive Lineman who has ever remotely sniffed a Pro Bowl. Kuper is good, but not great, especially in the red zone.

If you think the talent on the Broncos Offensive line is even remotely close to that of New England, then you must be smoking dope

(Cough)Bull****(cough)

Lestat
04-08-2012, 09:39 PM
I would hardly call Brian Waters a has been, he has made the Pro Bowl 3 of the last 4 years (only one with NE). That gives NE 2 legitimate Pro Bowlers in Mankins and Waters, with Solder probably making the Pro Bowl this year.

Clady is the ONLY Bronco Bronco Offensive Lineman who has ever remotely sniffed a Pro Bowl. Kuper is good, but not great, especially in the red zone.

If you think the talent on the Broncos Offensive line is even remotely close to that of New England, then you must be smoking dope

you severely overrate the Pats OL. they can't run block for ****, the reason they took Solder was due to the poor conditions of the OL, Like is getting up there in age and slightly regressing, Vollmer is solid, Waters is the same as Light, Solder and Mankins make that OL go just like Clady and Kuper make ours go.

pricejj
04-08-2012, 10:04 PM
you severely overrate the Pats OL. they can't run block for ****, the reason they took Solder was due to the poor conditions of the OL, Like is getting up there in age and slightly regressing, Vollmer is solid, Waters is the same as Light, Solder and Mankins make that OL go just like Clady and Kuper make ours go.

From Profootballfocus:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/02/23/ranking-the-2011-offensive-lines-part-2/

3. New England Patriots (3rd)
Run Rank 4th, Pass Rank 8th, Penalties Rank 5th
Year after year, the Patriots have fielded one of the most balanced and consistent lines and 2011 was no different. Surprisingly, the usual star of the show, Logan Mankins, had a bit of a down year where he looked average for the most part, being upstaged by free agent acquisition Brian Waters. Despite the teamís pass-heavy nature, itís their run blocking that often doesnít get the attention it deserves with five linemen getting positive grades in this area.

Best Player: He may be considering retirement, but we have to give credit to Matt Light (+8.1) for doing such a good job in all phases of the game.

Worst Player: While he wasnít terrible, Dan Connolly (-5.0) had some issues in pass protection and offered little in the run game.



30. Denver Broncos (18th)
Run Rank 32nd, Pass Rank 22nd, Penalties Rank 23rd
Wait, how could this be since the Broncos picked up so many yards on the ground? Well, weíve got a great piece coming up tomorrow that will examine the question of how a bad run blocking team can rush for so many yards, so I wonít spoil that.

Best Player: In something of a surprise, it graded out as Orlando Franklin (-9.1). Denverís best run blocker, Franklin had some issues in pass protection but improved as the season went on.

Worst Player: You kind of expect J.D. Walton (-28.9) to start getting better, but the man who finished second-from-the-bottom in Pass Blocking Efficiency ranking for centers had an even worse sophomore year. This is a crucial third year coming up for him.


......................

Obviously, Profootballfocus thinks there is a pretty BIG difference between the Denver and New England Offensive lines, and I agree. You guys can continue to keep your heads in the sand like Xanders if you want to. I know I won't be comfortable until Franklin is moved to LG (where he can actually excel) and play at a Pro Bowl level.