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doonwise
04-01-2012, 11:05 AM
The excitement from Dontari Poe’s phenomenal Scouting Combine performance is starting to fade in the eyes of many league observers, who are turning their attention back to Poe’s tape — and not liking what they’re seeing.

Poe, the Memphis defensive tackle who took the Combine by storm by running a 4.87-second 40-yard dash at 346 pounds and bench-pressing 225 pounds 44 times, does not impress many of those who have watched him play.

“He’ll be overdrafted,” one personnel man told the Times of Trenton. “He did all of that at the Combine, so some team will take him way higher than he should go. I mean watch him play, just watch. He didn’t do anything. And he wasn’t playing at a very high level, either. All I know is he had one sack last year and it came against Austin Peay. You probably didn’t even know Austin Peay had a football team.”

More here:http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/01/scout-on-dontari-poe-watch-him-play-he-didnt-do-anything/

Requiem
04-01-2012, 11:10 AM
BroncoBuff likes this guy so I bet he is going to be good.

Chris
04-01-2012, 11:13 AM
I was hoping the hype would continue and someone would bite.

Dedhed
04-01-2012, 11:15 AM
I was hoping the hype would continue and someone would bite.

Me too. I was hoping a team would be dumb enough to take him before Still or Worthy. Poe is not impressive on film at all.

BowlenBall
04-01-2012, 11:16 AM
He's 350 pounds, runs a 4.9, and can do 40+ reps at 225 -- at the very least, a pro coach should be able to teach him to clog up the middle. It's not rocket science, and he's certainly got the raw tools.

Give him to me at #25 if you don't want him....

Elway 4 Life
04-01-2012, 11:16 AM
I hope he is gone before our pick. I think there are 4 or so options better at the position.

brother love
04-01-2012, 11:20 AM
If you go on youtube and look for highlights, basically you find his combine workout as opposed to game film. What's that tell you?

Tombstone RJ
04-01-2012, 11:21 AM
just say no to Poe. He's a classic combine king. Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane.

SouthStndJunkie
04-01-2012, 11:23 AM
With his talent, Dontari Poe should have dominated.

I'm very wary of players who had little to no production at the college level.

Then they are supposed to magically produce in the NFL?

Buyer beware.

He might kick ass in the NFL, but red flags come up when I see little to no production in college.

cmhargrove
04-01-2012, 11:26 AM
He's 350 pounds, runs a 4.9, and can do 40+ reps at 225 -- at the very least, a pro coach should be able to teach him to clog up the middle. It's not rocket science, and he's certainly got the raw tools.

Give him to me at #25 if you don't want him....

You can have him, he sucks balls.

NFLBRONCO
04-01-2012, 11:29 AM
Who in the top 24 need a DT?

FootballCorner
04-01-2012, 11:29 AM
I'll take him. He is 6034-348 and has the speed, power, and athletic ability that few on this face of this planet have at that size. Guys like that do not fall of the back of trucks every day. They just do not. It is how the Giants ended up with Jason Pierre-Paul. A physical specimen that was raw. They coached him up. I would expect ANY NFL level DL coach to be able to do the same for Poe.

He is considered a hard worker and his coaches rave about him. His strength coach thinks he has just scratched the surface. The question I would be asking is why he did not produce better. The film shows some teams doubled him. They also used quick hitters. The Memphis defense did not put up much of a fight as a whole. He was also used to press up the field in the gaps and that may not be the best use of a power player like Poe who anchors well, but when you clog the inside and guys just run in wide open lanes beside you, not much can be done.

I would also question his coaching. He worked out with DaJohn Harris of USC and admitted that Harris had taught him several techniques to use as a DT that he had never seen. A collegiate player from a better program taught him techniques that his college coach never broached in 3 years.

Poe scored a 25 on the Wonderlic his junior season. He is a humble and loyal guy that went to Memphis because it is his hometown and he wanted to play for his family. Hard worker. Great intangibles. Potential stunted growth due to those decisions. Elite physical attributes.

He is a 20-32 pick to me. I would roll the dice on a guy with his upside.

2012 Pro Football Draft Guide-http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007NYQQWC

Tombstone RJ
04-01-2012, 11:36 AM
With his talent, Dontari Poe should have dominated.

I'm very wary of players who had little to no production at the college level.

Then they are supposed to magically produce in the NFL?

Buyer beware.

He might kick ass in the NFL, but red flags come up when I see little to no production in college.

yep. If anyone here claims he will be getting "better" coaching in the NFL and that will magically transform him into a dominating defensive tackle I beg to differ.

college coaching is pretty damn good too. It's not like he's going to all of a sudden dominate because an NFL coach tells him how to do a spin move. If he didn't dominate in college (where HE SHOULD HAVE DOMINATED BASED ON HIS BADASS COMBINE) then throwing money at him will not make him better.

If anything it should tell you he's only in it for that one big contract. He may get drafted high, sign a nice rookie deal, and then do nothing for 3 years until his rookie contract is up, then have a decent year for another contract.

If he's sitting there at 25 and ALL the other DTs are gone, sure, ok, take him. But if he's sitting there at 25 and another DT is there also (like Cox) you pass on Poe and take the other DT.

campocorto
04-01-2012, 11:40 AM
With his talent, Dontari Poe should have dominated.

I'm very wary of players who had little to no production at the college level.


In Conference USA, Poe didn't even make the first team all-conference team!!!

http://www.conferenceusa.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/120611aai.html

Major red flag.

Tombstone RJ
04-01-2012, 11:41 AM
I'll take him. He is 6034-348 and has the speed, power, and athletic ability that few on this face of this planet have at that size. Guys like that do not fall of the back of trucks every day. They just do not. It is how the Giants ended up with Jason Pierre-Paul. A physical specimen that was raw. They coached him up. I would expect ANY NFL level DL coach to be able to do the same for Poe.

He is considered a hard worker and his coaches rave about him. His strength coach thinks he has just scratched the surface. The question I would be asking is why he did not produce better. The film shows some teams doubled him. They also used quick hitters. The Memphis defense did not put up much of a fight as a whole. He was also used to press up the field in the gaps and that may not be the best use of a power player like Poe who anchors well, but when you clog the inside and guys just run in wide open lanes beside you, not much can be done.

I would also question his coaching. He worked out with DaJohn Harris of USC and admitted that Harris had taught him several techniques to use as a DT that he had never seen. A collegiate player from a better program taught him techniques that his college coach never broached in 3 years.

Poe scored a 25 on the Wonderlic his junior season. He is a humble and loyal guy that went to Memphis because it is his hometown and he wanted to play for his family. Hard worker. Great intangibles. Potential stunted growth due to those decisions. Elite physical attributes.

He is a 20-32 pick to me. I would roll the dice on a guy with his upside.

2012 Pro Football Draft Guide-http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007NYQQWC

Pierre-Paul actually produced decent numbers in college, first at some jucos and then at USF. He showed progress in college and the NYGs saw some legitimate upside.

houghtam
04-01-2012, 11:42 AM
It all comes down to Combine results are suspect. The timing system is not exact, and NFL history is loaded with tales of players who blew the drills out of the water, and then proceeded to just plain blow in the NFL.

An athlete can (and most do) train for specific drills. Anyone can improve their 40 time with the right training, but that doesn't always translate to NFL success (James Jett, we're looking at you). The sad part is that teams still actually put stock in players based on Combine results. I can guarantee at least one team is going to say the same thing some of the people in this thread are (OMGOMG LOOK AT HIS COMBINE RESULTS), draft him a round ahead of where he should go, and get burned.

Lestat
04-01-2012, 11:45 AM
dammit! i need for him to be drafted high. if he slides i would still take him but Cox,Brockers & Coples are the 3 DL i badly want in this draft and would have no issue with the tea trading up for if need be.

a guy like Poe has to go to the right team and scheme to fit him or he will bust out.
but that's the same as a lot of draftees.

houghtam
04-01-2012, 11:46 AM
In Conference USA, Poe didn't even make the first team all-conference team!!!

http://www.conferenceusa.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/120611aai.html

Major red flag.

LOL yeah there are people saying that First Team All-American Jerel Worthy from the Big Ten shouldn't go in the first round, yet somehow Second Team All-Conference USA Dontari Poe should?

Lestat
04-01-2012, 11:49 AM
lol i mainly say that because i'm biased against all MSU players as a Michigan fan.
but Worthy isn't a 1st round pick. he's a high 2nd rounder like Andy Dalton. he'll likely produce at the NFL level but i'm not convinced he'll become the type of player that warrants a 1st round pick because i don't think his ceiling is high enough for it.

now mind you, when i say what round i mean "draft value" wise, not player wise.
player wise Jenkins(CB) is a top 15 pick. draft value wise he's #25 or high 2nd.
LOL yeah there are people saying that First Team All-American Jerel Worthy from the Big Ten shouldn't go in the first round, yet somehow Second Team All-Conference USA Dontari Poe should?

houghtam
04-01-2012, 11:53 AM
lol i mainly say that because i'm biased against all MSU players as a Michigan fan.
but Worthy isn't a 1st round pick. he's a high 2nd rounder like Andy Dalton. he'll likely produce at the NFL level but i'm not convinced he'll become the type of player that warrants a 1st round pick because i don't think his ceiling is high enough for it.

Hey at least you're truthful about it. I guess you could say I'm biased as a MSU fan, but I realize that highly touted MSU players have a recent history of not panning out in the NFL for whatever reason.

That said, Worthy is a rare talent, and I think he'll go 20-32, and rightfully so, IMO.

On the other hand, as sort of proof that I'm not blinded by green-blooded homerism, there are a lot of people saying Cousins should go in the second, where I've said repeatedly that he's too raw to go before the third. He has all the tools, he just needs refinement, and drafting him high with the idea of him being a starter anytime in the near future is a mistake.

oubronco
04-01-2012, 12:14 PM
Who in the top 24 need a DT?

The Queefs

BroncoInferno
04-01-2012, 12:16 PM
If McD or Shanny were our coach, I wouldn't want to touch a guy like this. But with Fox and Del Rio, I'd feel more confident rolling the dice on Poe. The fact that he is consider a hard worker alleviates some concerns as well. Usually guys like Poe who underachieve are lazy. It sounds like he may just need some top level coaching.

*WARHORSE*
04-01-2012, 12:17 PM
Say NO...... to POE.


You betcha....... with Simon Fletcha.


Wow.

Im on it.

barryr
04-01-2012, 12:31 PM
Game tapes don't lie. Whoever drafts him will have to have patience and a very good DL coach and hope he develops in 2-3 years. Poe has no clue about hand usage, leverage, or how to locate the ball, which all explains his weak numbers in college. He needs to be taught the finer things about the DL, but so do most of them, which explains why so many bust. Can it be done? Sure. Is it likely he becomes anything more than just a space eater? No.

Tombstone RJ
04-01-2012, 12:41 PM
If McD or Shanny were our coach, I wouldn't want to touch a guy like this. But with Fox and Del Rio, I'd feel more confident rolling the dice on Poe. The fact that he is consider a hard worker alleviates some concerns as well. Usually guys like Poe who underachieve are lazy. It sounds like he may just need some top level coaching.

see post 13 my friend...

Tombstone RJ
04-01-2012, 12:43 PM
Game tapes don't lie. Whoever drafts him will have to have patience and a very good DL coach and hope he develops in 2-3 years. Poe has no clue about hand usage, leverage, or how to locate the ball, which all explains his weak numbers in college. He needs to be taught the finer things about the DL, but so do most of them, which explains why so many bust. Can it be done? Sure. Is it likely he becomes anything more than just a space eater? No.

see post 13. Again, if he is such a freak then he wouldn't need top level coaching to begin with right? Some guys get by in college because they are just more physically dominating. Poe should have dominated in college, even with lousy coaching.

However, I think he got plenty of decent coaching in college and still sucked. So IMHO he's lazy and just in it for the money.

barryr
04-01-2012, 12:51 PM
see post 13. Again, if he is such a freak then he wouldn't need top level coaching to begin with right? Some guys get by in college because they are just more physically dominating. Poe should have dominated in college, even with lousy coaching.

However, I think he got plenty of decent coaching in college and still sucked. So IMHO he's lazy and just in it for the money.

Yep, that is why I stated it was unlikely he becomes anything more than just takes up space. The Broncos need some immediate type help at DT and I'd rather they went RB or WR than spend a 1st rounder on such a project like him. Technique can be taught, but intensity can not.

FootballCorner
04-01-2012, 12:55 PM
Pierre-Paul actually produced decent numbers in college, first at some jucos and then at USF. He showed progress in college and the NYGs saw some legitimate upside.

JPP had 45 total tackles in his final season, ONLY season, at South Florida. He was not even a full time starter. He was used as a situational pass rusher for 6 games in his only season. His best college numbers was his 70 tackles while at Fort Scott Community college. That came after a 49 tackle season at College of the Canyons.

Maybe Poe should have played in a summer league and got 70 tackles. Then, his career totals of 33, 41, and 27 appear better.

But, I hope none of you want Josh Chapman. His 23 total tackles this season are 30% less than what Poe did. His 31 last year is not something to sing about either. That is 2 guys you can strike off the list because they failed to produce. Good thing Brockers got up to 47 this year because that 25 he had last year would have sank him. Jerel Worthy had 30 this season and 40 last year. If he could only produce like Poe.

This is going to be an awfully thin draft a DT based on production.

Broncobiv
04-01-2012, 12:57 PM
WTF does 40-time matter for a DT?? They play their entire career in a 10x10 yard square!

Tombstone RJ
04-01-2012, 01:01 PM
JPP had 45 total tackles in his final season, ONLY season, at South Florida. He was not even a full time starter. He was used as a situational pass rusher for 6 games in his only season. His best college numbers was his 70 tackles while at Fort Scott Community college. That came after a 49 tackle season at College of the Canyons.

Maybe Poe should have played in a summer league and got 70 tackles. Then, his career totals of 33, 41, and 27 appear better.

But, I hope none of you want Josh Chapman. His 23 total tackles this season are 30% less than what Poe did. His 31 last year is not something to sing about either. That is 2 guys you can strike off the list because they failed to produce. Good thing Brockers got up to 47 this year because that 25 he had last year would have sank him. Jerel Worthy had 30 this season and 40 last year. If he could only produce like Poe.

This is going to be an awfully thin draft a DT based on production.

I think that is important to note. Poe was a fulltime starter no? JPP showed progress and he was very raw, correct? That is, he didn't grow up playing football.

elsid13
04-01-2012, 01:04 PM
Physical talented but has very very poor techinque. He going to be exposed in the NFL by veteran lineman unless he given time to learn proper hand placement and how to locate the ball. He is project and should be 2nd day pick but someone is going to overreach and he going to suffer for it.

Best place for him is the Ravens because he fits their style of play and would have Cody, Jones. McPhee and Ngata in front him, giving him time to learn.

barryr
04-01-2012, 01:07 PM
JPP had 45 total tackles in his final season, ONLY season, at South Florida. He was not even a full time starter. He was used as a situational pass rusher for 6 games in his only season. His best college numbers was his 70 tackles while at Fort Scott Community college. That came after a 49 tackle season at College of the Canyons.

Maybe Poe should have played in a summer league and got 70 tackles. Then, his career totals of 33, 41, and 27 appear better.

But, I hope none of you want Josh Chapman. His 23 total tackles this season are 30% less than what Poe did. His 31 last year is not something to sing about either. That is 2 guys you can strike off the list because they failed to produce. Good thing Brockers got up to 47 this year because that 25 he had last year would have sank him. Jerel Worthy had 30 this season and 40 last year. If he could only produce like Poe.

This is going to be an awfully thin draft a DT based on production.

But that's the point. Pierre-Paul was just scratching the surface of his talents since he had barely played. Poe has been playing a lot longer and still not producing and played in a weak conference and still wasn't a factor. But he can run fast and jump high. That's nice.

Worthy, Brockers, and Chapman also played in great conferences surrounded by many NFL prospects on their defenses. Who on Memphis is even being considered worth a draft pick other than Poe that he had to fight to make plays?

DT's tend to come into the NFL and not knowing how to use their hands and leverage very well, but Poe appears lost too much of the time, especially when it comes to finding the ball. You can't tackle what you can't find and he is a major project whose chances of developing are slim. It isn't impossible, but a team like the Broncos needing major help at DT doesn't need top take a chance on a guy whose chances of developing are not good.

lonestar
04-01-2012, 01:09 PM
Pierre-Paul actually produced decent numbers in college, first at some jucos and then at USF. He showed progress in college and the NYGs saw some legitimate upside.

and the giants have always drafted well and taught their DL to be great..

No one should ever use the giants as the example only the standard of excellence..

houghtam
04-01-2012, 01:18 PM
Poe has been playing a lot longer and still not producing and played in a weak conference and still wasn't a factor...Worthy, Brockers, and Chapman also played in great conferences surrounded by many NFL prospects on their defenses. Who on Memphis is even being considered worth a draft pick other than Poe that he had to fight to make plays?

Rep.

Here is a list of interior offensive linemen from the Big Ten that may get drafted this year, against whom Jerel Worthy may have lined up:

Kevin Zeitler, Wisconsin
Johnnie Troutman, Penn State
Ken Plue, Purdue
Peter Konz, Wisconsin
Mike Brewster, Ohio State
David Molk, Michigan

Here is a list of interior offensive linemen from Conference USA that may get drafted this year, against whom Dontari Poe may have lined up:

Ronald Leary, Memphis (in practice)

I rest my case.

FootballCorner
04-01-2012, 01:19 PM
I think that is important to note. Poe was a fulltime starter no? JPP showed progress and he was very raw, correct? That is, he didn't grow up playing football.

JPP started playing football in his junior year of high school. He was a basketball player, but that does not mean he never played the game in his life and was kept in a bubble. He played 2 years of HS ball and then went to 2 different Jucos before transferring to South Florida. He was not kept in a cell with bread slipped under the door and introduced to sports at 18. He was a 4-year basketball player.

Poe played in high school. He also played 3-years of college football, just like JPP. JPP did not come to America on some boat as an immigrant and get introduced to the sport. His PARENTS were immigrants. He was born in Florida. He has been immersed in our society and I feel pretty confident that he grew up with the same culture that Poe did. If he failed to nut up and put on some pads, that should not get him a pass.

cutthemdown
04-01-2012, 01:19 PM
Poe should probably be a 2nd round pick, but some team will bite in the first round.

Requiem
04-01-2012, 01:25 PM
Worthy bitchslapped Wisconsin when they played.

Tombstone RJ
04-01-2012, 01:25 PM
JPP started playing football in his junior year of high school. He was a basketball player, but that does not mean he never played the game in his life and was kept in a bubble. He played 2 years of HS ball and then went to 2 different Jucos before transferring to South Florida. He was not kept in a cell with bread slipped under the door and introduced to sports at 18. He was a 4-year basketball player.

Poe played in high school. He also played 3-years of college football, just like JPP. JPP did not come to America on some boat as an immigrant and get introduced to the sport. His PARENTS were immigrants. He was born in Florida. He has been immersed in our society and I feel pretty confident that he grew up with the same culture that Poe did. If he failed to nut up and put on some pads, that should not get him a pass.

fair enough, I still wouldn't waste a first round pick on Poe. He should have dominated in college, period. He didn't, why? I'm not buying the "coaching is to blame" theory either. Poe should have been a monster regardless of coaching.

barryr
04-01-2012, 01:27 PM
Rep.

Here is a list of interior offensive linemen from the Big Ten that may get drafted this year, against whom Jerel Worthy may have lined up:

Kevin Zeitler, Wisconsin
Johnnie Troutman, Penn State
Ken Plue, Purdue
Peter Konz, Wisconsin
Mike Brewster, Ohio State
David Molk, Michigan

Here is a list of interior offensive linemen from Conference USA that may get drafted this year, against whom Dontari Poe may have lined up:

Ronald Leary, Memphis (in practice)

I rest my case.

Yep, true, Poe hasn't even faced great OL in his career either, which changes in the NFL of course. There is no guarantee the other DT's projected as possible 1st rounders are going to amount to much either and they have better resumes than Poe. Some team will roll the dice and think they can make Poe a great player and I think likely will be wrong no matter who it is.

Lestat
04-01-2012, 01:33 PM
Hey at least you're truthful about it. I guess you could say I'm biased as a MSU fan, but I realize that highly touted MSU players have a recent history of not panning out in the NFL for whatever reason.

That said, Worthy is a rare talent, and I think he'll go 20-32, and rightfully so, IMO.

On the other hand, as sort of proof that I'm not blinded by green-blooded homerism, there are a lot of people saying Cousins should go in the second, where I've said repeatedly that he's too raw to go before the third. He has all the tools, he just needs refinement, and drafting him high with the idea of him being a starter anytime in the near future is a mistake.

to me, Cousins is that guy who if you take him in round 5 and let him develop for 4 years he can be a top tier back up who can develop into a solid NFL QB.
but if you take him higher and try to pin your franchise on him you're in trouble.

ever since McDaniels last draft and especially after last season i've been intrigued by where a player's assumed value and where he actually goes is.
i watched how Elway and co worked the draft and allowed guys to come to them or traded up for key guys without overpaying. the Pats and Lions did a good job of that last season as well.

the value for Worthy is insane as a 2nd round pick. as a first not so much.
he just doesn't have the potential wow factor to warrant being a 1st round draft value. he just seems like the type of player who will end up being like Bunkley was before his contract year.

FootballCorner
04-01-2012, 01:35 PM
But that's the point. Pierre-Paul was just scratching the surface of his talents since he had barely played. Poe has been playing a lot longer and still not producing and played in a weak conference and still wasn't a factor. But he can run fast and jump high. That's nice.

Worthy, Brockers, and Chapman also played in great conferences surrounded by many NFL prospects on their defenses. Who on Memphis is even being considered worth a draft pick other than Poe that he had to fight to make plays?

DT's tend to come into the NFL and not knowing how to use their hands and leverage very well, but Poe appears lost too much of the time, especially when it comes to finding the ball. You can't tackle what you can't find and he is a major project whose chances of developing are slim. It isn't impossible, but a team like the Broncos needing major help at DT doesn't need top take a chance on a guy whose chances of developing are not good.

JPP started playing organized football as a Junior. Poe started as a freshman. I hope you are not stating that those 2 years of JV ball will make that significant of an impact.

And, as I showed, his tackle numbers compare favorably to many of the other DTs in this draft, so I do not see how you get the "not producing" tag.

As for Worthy, Chapman, and Brockers facing better competition and playing on better defenses to have to fight for tackles, that is a fair point. You also have to realize that there are plays where Poe gets penetration and cuts the back off, only to have him plant and cut to the other side into WIDE open spaces because the Memphis defense is devoid of talent. That does not work with LSU, Alabama, and MSU. They have guys to hold their ground allowing the DTs more time to MAKE plays. Look at all the other draft picks on those rosters. Poe did not have a Hightower or Honey Badger or vast host of talent to give him support. He chooses and misses the play easily goes for 20 yards. SMU spent the whole game throwing quick hitters to the WRs. The CBs never came up. They negated ANY DL advantage by simply going outside. Then, once they wore down the DL chasing outside, they began to run off tackle and racked up over 500 yards of total offense. Memphis also had a putrid offense that could not hold on to the football (TOP was just over 28 minutes per game). They had 21 fumbles. As a team, they barely rushed for 1000 yards and threw for just over 2200. They scored @16 PPG....as a COLLEGE team. Putrid. But, I guess playing on a team that fails to help you in ANY way should not be a factor because you should just use that raw athletic ability to make plays.

I am not advocating that the Broncos draft Poe. I am stating that he could simply be a product of a poor coaching staff at a lesser football school and could be developed much like JPP was. In fact, I would advocate handing Manning as many tools as possible. The defense may be good enough if he returns to form and has some protection and weapons. If he is not to form, does not really matter.

Requiem
04-01-2012, 01:38 PM
the value for Worthy is insane as a 2nd round pick. as a first not so much. he just doesn't have the potential wow factor to warrant being a 1st round draft value. he just seems like the type of player who will end up being like Bunkley was before his contract year.

. . . Worthy and Bunkley aren't even comparable.

Lestat
04-01-2012, 01:38 PM
well Memphis did have one of the worst defensive staffs in football. i believe Poe had 3 DC's in his time there at Memphis.

Lestat
04-01-2012, 01:39 PM
my point was that i worry his production will be similar to Bunkley's while in Philly.
. . . Worthy and Bunkley aren't even comparable.

Requiem
04-01-2012, 01:39 PM
well Memphis did have one of the worst defensive staffs in football. i believe Poe had 3 DC's in his time there at Memphis.

Great. He'll fit right in with us. D.J. can be his camp mentor. He knows all about DC changes.

Requiem
04-01-2012, 01:42 PM
my point was that i worry his production will be similar to Bunkley's while in Philly.

Why? Worthy commanded double-teams on a regular basis and still racked up 27.5 tackles for loss and 12 sacks in just three years of play in the Big 10.

I don't think there is a better option @ DT with #25 than him and if we trade down he is going to be gone.

Tombstone RJ
04-01-2012, 01:50 PM
JPP started playing organized football as a Junior. Poe started as a freshman. I hope you are not stating that those 2 years of JV ball will make that significant of an impact.

And, as I showed, his tackle numbers compare favorably to many of the other DTs in this draft, so I do not see how you get the "not producing" tag.

As for Worthy, Chapman, and Brockers facing better competition and playing on better defenses to have to fight for tackles, that is a fair point. You also have to realize that there are plays where Poe gets penetration and cuts the back off, only to have him plant and cut to the other side into WIDE open spaces because the Memphis defense is devoid of talent. That does not work with LSU, Alabama, and MSU. They have guys to hold their ground allowing the DTs more time to MAKE plays. Look at all the other draft picks on those rosters. Poe did not have a Hightower or Honey Badger or vast host of talent to give him support. He chooses and misses the play easily goes for 20 yards. SMU spent the whole game throwing quick hitters to the WRs. The CBs never came up. They negated ANY DL advantage by simply going outside. Then, once they wore down the DL chasing outside, they began to run off tackle and racked up over 500 yards of total offense. Memphis also had a putrid offense that could not hold on to the football (TOP was just over 28 minutes per game). They had 21 fumbles. As a team, they barely rushed for 1000 yards and threw for just over 2200. They scored @16 PPG....as a COLLEGE team. Putrid. But, I guess playing on a team that fails to help you in ANY way should not be a factor because you should just use that raw athletic ability to make plays.

I am not advocating that the Broncos draft Poe. I am stating that he could simply be a product of a poor coaching staff at a lesser football school and could be developed much like JPP was. In fact, I would advocate handing Manning as many tools as possible. The defense may be good enough if he returns to form and has some protection and weapons. If he is not to form, does not really matter.

so I guess the proper way to scout Poe is to talk to the opposing coaches who had to game plan around Poe? If the opposing programs game plan was to simply avoid Poe and that was it then you might be on to something.

A good NFL scouting department will do this.

Rohirrim
04-01-2012, 01:53 PM
I'll take him. He is 6034-348 and has the speed, power, and athletic ability that few on this face of this planet have at that size. Guys like that do not fall of the back of trucks every day. They just do not. It is how the Giants ended up with Jason Pierre-Paul. A physical specimen that was raw. They coached him up. I would expect ANY NFL level DL coach to be able to do the same for Poe.

He is considered a hard worker and his coaches rave about him. His strength coach thinks he has just scratched the surface. The question I would be asking is why he did not produce better. The film shows some teams doubled him. They also used quick hitters. The Memphis defense did not put up much of a fight as a whole. He was also used to press up the field in the gaps and that may not be the best use of a power player like Poe who anchors well, but when you clog the inside and guys just run in wide open lanes beside you, not much can be done.

I would also question his coaching. He worked out with DaJohn Harris of USC and admitted that Harris had taught him several techniques to use as a DT that he had never seen. A collegiate player from a better program taught him techniques that his college coach never broached in 3 years.

Poe scored a 25 on the Wonderlic his junior season. He is a humble and loyal guy that went to Memphis because it is his hometown and he wanted to play for his family. Hard worker. Great intangibles. Potential stunted growth due to those decisions. Elite physical attributes.

He is a 20-32 pick to me. I would roll the dice on a guy with his upside.

2012 Pro Football Draft Guide-http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007NYQQWC

Welcome to the Mane. Good stuff. :wave:

Drunken.Broncoholic
04-01-2012, 01:53 PM
Who in the top 24 need a DT?

Carolina. KC. Seattle. Philly. Tenn.

FootballCorner
04-01-2012, 01:55 PM
fair enough, I still wouldn't waste a first round pick on Poe. He should have dominated in college, period. He didn't, why? I'm not buying the "coaching is to blame" theory either. Poe should have been a monster regardless of coaching.

Wow. So, you do not think coaching factors in. I wonder why Alabama pays Nick Saban? I guess Fox won't help the Broncos become better.

But, think what you like. I know this, Memphis fired their head coach. The only HC Poe ever played under who was in his first HC job. He and his whole staff was canned this season. Mike Dubose was the DL coach. He is formerly a HC at Alabama where he won the SEC in 1999, but of his 4 seasons there, only 1 was a winning season. He then went to coach a HS team that went 0-10 and got him fired after a season. He worked his way back to the elite level of DL coach at Memphis under a 1st year HC. Of course, that staff has since been canned and he is unemployed again.

So, while you think that coaching resume is as good as he would get at other schools, forgive me for thinking otherwise.

Lestat
04-01-2012, 01:56 PM
Why? Worthy commanded double-teams on a regular basis and still racked up 27.5 tackles for loss and 12 sacks in just three years of play in the Big 10.

I don't think there is a better option @ DT with #25 than him and if we trade down he is going to be gone.

Bunk was a freak in his last season and led DT's in tackles for loss when he was a draftee. he was seen as a pocket collapsing interior force who would be a top notch DT or 3-4 DE.

Requiem
04-01-2012, 02:02 PM
Bunk was a freak in his last season and led DT's in tackles for loss when he was a draftee. he was seen as a pocket collapsing interior force who would be a top notch DT or 3-4 DE.

Orien Harris and Claude Wroten will never forget this!

Tombstone RJ
04-01-2012, 02:05 PM
Wow. So, you do not think coaching factors in. I wonder why Alabama pays Nick Saban? I guess Fox won't help the Broncos become better.

But, think what you like. I know this, Memphis fired their head coach. The only HC Poe ever played under who was in his first HC job. He and his whole staff was canned this season. Mike Dubose was the DL coach. He is formerly a HC at Alabama where he won the SEC in 1999, but of his 4 seasons there, only 1 was a winning season. He then went to coach a HS team that went 0-10 and got him fired after a season. He worked his way back to the elite level of DL coach at Memphis under a 1st year HC. Of course, that staff has since been canned and he is unemployed again.

So, while you think that coaching resume is as good as he would get at other schools, forgive me for thinking otherwise.

No, I think that coaching does matter of course but Poes monstrous combine should have translated to better college stats, so ok if Poe was so dominant how come he was second team Conf. USA?

What do the opposing coaches think of Poe? I think this is key to understand what Poe was or was not in college.

FootballCorner
04-01-2012, 02:10 PM
so I guess the proper way to scout Poe is to talk to the opposing coaches who had to game plan around Poe? If the opposing programs game plan was to simply avoid Poe and that was it then you might be on to something.

A good NFL scouting department will do this.

I am not stating that the sun will rise and set in his rear, but his raw skills do not come down all the time. Any team taking him has to be prepared to develop him. He is raw. He needs to be coached up. If you have a team that does not develop DL well, I would avoid Poe. Some teams coach up certain positions well. I could see him going to a team like Pittsburgh and being successful. Their DL coach seems to get the most out of his guys. Ryan McBean could not make their roster. Hampton is in his final season. Hoke retired. They have a need. Baltimore is another. Dallas.

houghtam
04-01-2012, 02:15 PM
Bottom line on the "he didn't have good coaches" argument is that, IMO, the gaps in quality of competition between Conference USA and real football conferences is a bigger determining factor for success (or lack thereof) int he NFL than the difference between coaching quality in the NCAA and the NFL.

Otherwise you'd have players from Fairleigh-Dickinson being drafted in the first round for going ape**** in FCS conferences, and players with middling careers in big time conferences going undrafted.

Lestat
04-01-2012, 02:15 PM
lol they're great players, in the USFL and CFL.
Orien Harris and Claude Wroten will never forget this!

Lestat
04-01-2012, 02:23 PM
Poe is definitely a project, but he's a first round pick on talent and potential and that's what he'll be drafted on. smaller school players tend to dominate when they get their named mentioned in the top 2 rounds.
but the thing about Poe is that he has things you can't teach(size and athleticism) that others in this draft do not.
he's that 7-0 250 lb big man in the NBA who you know you shouldn't take that high but the potential payoff is too great to pass up.
any raw athlete(which Poe is) who is a project like that is a lump of clay that someone has to decide if they want to mold them into a work of art.
he's the classic boom or bust type. there is no in between with him.
the film and stats say bust but his physical ability and hard working nature say you take the chance if you feel you can develop him.

i would take Poe as a 20's pick and try to mold him. but he'll likely go higher than that. me personally i want Cox or Brockers, Cox came out a year too early and is only scratching the surface of his talent, he can play DT & split out to DE in certain rush or goal line schemes. Brockers is another who is only scratching the surface of his talent but he's the type you can make into a stout 330+ lb double team forcing, allowing the LB to make plays DT machine.
Bottom line on the "he didn't have good coaches" argument is that, IMO, the gaps in quality of competition between Conference USA and real football conferences is a bigger determining factor for success (or lack thereof) int he NFL than the difference between coaching quality in the NCAA and the NFL.

Otherwise you'd have players from Fairleigh-Dickinson being drafted in the first round for going ape**** in FCS conferences, and players with middling careers in big time conferences going undrafted.

houghtam
04-01-2012, 02:32 PM
Poe is definitely a project, but he's a first round pick on talent and potential and that's what he'll be drafted on. smaller school players tend to dominate when they get their named mentioned in the top 2 rounds.
but the thing about Poe is that he has things you can't teach(size and athleticism) that others in this draft do not.
he's that 7-0 250 lb big man in the NBA who you know you shouldn't take that high but the potential payoff is too great to pass up.
any raw athlete(which Poe is) who is a project like that is a lump of clay that someone has to decide if they want to mold them into a work of art.
he's the classic boom or bust type. there is no in between with him.
the film and stats say bust but his physical ability and hard working nature say you take the chance if you feel you can develop him.

i would take Poe as a 20's pick and try to mold him. but he'll likely go higher than that. me personally i want Cox or Brockers, Cox came out a year too early and is only scratching the surface of his talent, he can play DT & split out to DE in certain rush or goal line schemes. Brockers is another who is only scratching the surface of his talent but he's the type you can make into a stout 330+ lb double team forcing, allowing the LB to make plays DT machine.

You're welcome to your opinion...I would never draft a player in the first round based on pure potential. BPA stands for Best Player Available, not Best Project Available, and over the past several years I've grown to agree with the opinion that you always go BPA in the first round. If I'm a team drafting in the top of the 2nd round and most of the "sure things" (yeah I know there's never a sure thing in the draft, but you know what I'm referring to) are gone, then yeah, maybe I take a flyer on him if I needed a DT. I wouldn't go near him with a ten foot pole in the first, though.

Lestat
04-01-2012, 02:36 PM
i definitely understand that line of thinking because in general it keeps you from drafting busts. ideally you don't draft Poe since he would have to be a starter this year with the lack of DT depth and that's not what he needs right now. but when you're drafting at the back end of a round you almost always draft on potential so that if you hit then you get a franchise player.
You're welcome to your opinion...I would never draft a player in the first round based on pure potential. BPA stands for Best Player Available, not Best Project Available, and over the past several years I've grown to agree with the opinion that you always go BPA in the first round. If I'm a team drafting in the top of the 2nd round and most of the "sure things" (yeah I know there's never a sure thing in the draft, but you know what I'm referring to) are gone, then yeah, maybe I take a flyer on him if I needed a DT. I wouldn't go near him with a ten foot pole in the first, though.

houghtam
04-01-2012, 02:39 PM
when you're drafting at the back end of a round you almost always draft on potential so that if you hit then you get a franchise player.

Tell that to the Ravens.

Broncojef
04-01-2012, 02:42 PM
Give me Worthy at 25 please...

FootballCorner
04-01-2012, 02:47 PM
Bottom line on the "he didn't have good coaches" argument is that, IMO, the gaps in quality of competition between Conference USA and real football conferences is a bigger determining factor for success (or lack thereof) int he NFL than the difference between coaching quality in the NCAA and the NFL.

Otherwise you'd have players from Fairleigh-Dickinson being drafted in the first round for going ape**** in FCS conferences, and players with middling careers in big time conferences going undrafted.

Let me make sure I understand this. You feel the difference between conference USA competition and SEC competition is a bigger determining factor than the difference between college coaching quality and pro coaching quality.

Wow. Even though players from Conference USA head to the pros and are successful every year while two of the top coaches in the SEC last season (Saban and Spurrier) were simply embarrassed as NFL coaches. Both of those coaches took NFL talent and played other NFL coaches and were soundly beaten. They returned to the elite conference in college and one won his division last year while the other won a NC.

And you do not think there is a vast difference between an NFL coaching staff and the staff at Memphis, a bottom dweller at C-USA.

The issue is much greater than talent. Sometimes talent will end up in small schools and lesser conferences due to various reasons. They can still climb back. JPP and Bruce Irvin are shining examples.

Yet, NFL teams retread the same coaches over and over. Most elite college coaches fail at the next level. If you really buy that there is a greater distance between roster talent at C-USA and the SEC than there is coaching talent between the NFL and C-USA, much less the SEC, then I cannot help you.

chickennob2
04-01-2012, 02:49 PM
yep. If anyone here claims he will be getting "better" coaching in the NFL and that will magically transform him into a dominating defensive tackle I beg to differ.

college coaching is pretty damn good too. It's not like he's going to all of a sudden dominate because an NFL coach tells him how to do a spin move. If he didn't dominate in college (where HE SHOULD HAVE DOMINATED BASED ON HIS BADASS COMBINE) then throwing money at him will not make him better.

If anything it should tell you he's only in it for that one big contract. He may get drafted high, sign a nice rookie deal, and then do nothing for 3 years until his rookie contract is up, then have a decent year for another contract.

If he's sitting there at 25 and ALL the other DTs are gone, sure, ok, take him. But if he's sitting there at 25 and another DT is there also (like Cox) you pass on Poe and take the other DT.

As a proud Memphian and huge Tiger fan, I have to say, yes college coaching on average is pretty good. But the coaching at Memphis over Poe's entire career has been absolutely atrocious. The team has lacked talent, and has had zero direction from an extremely young and inexperienced (and recently fired) head coach. I was always disappointed in Poe's play, but I think there's a world of difference between coaching at Memphis and coaching at the worst NFL team.

Lestat
04-01-2012, 02:50 PM
Tell that to the Ravens.
Ed Reed,Kyle Boller,Joe Flacco, & Jimmy Smith were all drafted on potential.
hell even Oher was drafted on potential.

houghtam
04-01-2012, 02:58 PM
Let me make sure I understand this. You feel the difference between conference USA competition and SEC competition is a bigger determining factor than the difference between college coaching quality and pro coaching quality.

Wow. Even though players from Conference USA head to the pros and are successful every year while two of the top coaches in the SEC last season (Saban and Spurrier) were simply embarrassed as NFL coaches. Both of those coaches took NFL talent and played other NFL coaches and were soundly beaten. They returned to the elite conference in college and one won his division last year while the other won a NC.

And you do not think there is a vast difference between an NFL coaching staff and the staff at Memphis, a bottom dweller at C-USA.

The issue is much greater than talent. Sometimes talent will end up in small schools and lesser conferences due to various reasons. They can still climb back. JPP and Bruce Irvin are shining examples.

Yet, NFL teams retread the same coaches over and over. Most elite college coaches fail at the next level. If you really buy that there is a greater distance between roster talent at C-USA and the SEC than there is coaching talent between the NFL and C-USA, much less the SEC, then I cannot help you.

So why are there probably going to be 30 or so players from real football conferences taken in the first round this year and only 1 or 2 from other conferences? Why were 30 taken last year? I mean if the good players from places like Memphis are just a product of poor coaching, surely there would be more than a player or two taken really high.

Nope, it's the fact that even when you put up huge numbers at a school in a conference with the likes of UTEP and and Rice, your performance will be suspect because you are going up against terrible players. And when you put up mediocre numbers against guys who will be "planning a career in something other than sports" (to quote the NCAA student athlete commercial), it's a huge red flag, no matter what you do at the combine.

houghtam
04-01-2012, 03:05 PM
Ed Reed,Kyle Boller,Joe Flacco, & Jimmy Smith were all drafted on potential.
hell even Oher was drafted on potential.

2 time All-American Ed Reed was drafted on potential? #2 all-time passer for Cal Kyle Boller was drafted on potential?

I mean I guess if you want to get technical, every player is selected based on potential.

Lestat
04-01-2012, 03:35 PM
Kyle Boller was considered to be a 2nd round pick for a good while until he had private workouts and tossed the ball through the uprights from his knees(which is why a lot of analysts make the joke about QB arm strength not being the ability to throw 50 yards from your knees.)
he trended up much like Ponder and others before him.

Reed went back and forth on his stock multiple times, he was a top 10 pick, then he was bottom first, then back up, then back down and then he was seen as a potential star and etc.

Boller nor Reed was seen nor drafted as a potential sure thing.
Heap,Clayton and Grubbs are the only draft picks the Ravens have made that weren't based upon potential.
even Lewis when he was drafted slid down the draft and his potential is what saved him.

now had you cited the Steelers i would have agreed, they almost always draft guys based upon what the proved in college and how they fit the system.
2 time All-American Ed Reed was drafted on potential? #2 all-time passer for Cal Kyle Boller was drafted on potential?

I mean I guess if you want to get technical, every player is selected based on potential.

g6matty
04-01-2012, 03:37 PM
this years DT in order

Still
Worthy
Brockers
Cox
Poe

houghtam
04-01-2012, 03:39 PM
Kyle Boller was considered to be a 2nd round pick for a good while until he had private workouts and tossed the ball through the uprights from his knees(which is why a lot of analysts make the joke about QB arm strength not being the ability to throw 50 yards from your knees.)
he trended up much like Ponder and others before him.

Reed went back and forth on his stock multiple times, he was a top 10 pick, then he was bottom first, then back up, then back down and then he was seen as a potential Troy Polamalu and etc.

Boller nor Reed was seen nor drafted as a potential sure thing.
Heap,Clayton and Grubbs are the only draft picks the Ravens have made that weren't based upon potential.
even Lewis when he was drafted slid down the draft and his potential is what saved him.

I suppose it all depends on what your definition of drafting on potential, and even the word potential itself is. Point being, a team with a proven draft history like the Ravens wouldn't take someone like Poe in the first round, and neither would I.

If you want him, you can have him...but then again, you're a Michigan fan, no one ever accused you of having good judgement. ;D

Lestat
04-01-2012, 04:17 PM
I suppose it all depends on what your definition of drafting on potential, and even the word potential itself is. Point being, a team with a proven draft history like the Ravens wouldn't take someone like Poe in the first round, and neither would I.

If you want him, you can have him...but then again, you're a Michigan fan, no one ever accused you of having good judgement. ;D

you really think the Ravens wouldn't snatch him up at their pick if he fell that far? i don't see who they pass him up for unless Cox or Brockers also falls.
ha! even when we lost to you we still got a BCS bowl while your coach was crying about getting shut out :yayaya:

snowspot66
04-01-2012, 04:35 PM
Reed went back and forth on his stock multiple times, he was a top 10 pick, then he was bottom first, then back up, then back down and then he was seen as a potential Troy Polamalu and etc.


What? Reed was drafted the year before Polamalu.

houghtam
04-01-2012, 04:36 PM
you really think the Ravens wouldn't snatch him up at their pick if he fell that far? i don't see who they pass him up for unless Cox or Brockers also falls.
ha! even when we lost to you we still got a BCS bowl while your coach was crying about getting shut out :yayaya:

No, I don't think the Ravens would touch Poe in the first round.

And as far as the BCS bowl, I'm glad you enjoyed it, but come on, you can't honestly think that UM was more deserving of a BCS Bowl than MSU. Michigan State lost to Notre Dame and #14 Nebraska. Michigan lost to Iowa and Michigan State. Michigan State had 2 wins against Top 25 teams, Michigan had 1. Michigan State played in the Conference Championship Game, Michigan did not. I still for the life of me cannot figure out how UM got a BCS Bowl. Not saying Michigan State deserved one, but they certainly deserved it more than UM.

bpc
04-01-2012, 05:06 PM
Worthy is the best player at DT. Fletcher is probably next best but is light in the hips and I have a hard time seeing him as a guy who can stop the run. Poe/Brockers each both have some athleticism but film is less than impressive. Brockers at least has long arms. Poe does not. I wouldn't touch Still from PSU. Billy Winn is a sleeper. Reminds me of Worthy a bit. Athletic big man at the 3 tech. B. Thompson is a good 1 tech with better than average athleticism. Chapman from Bama is a 2 down player. Ta'amu has good size and a few other attributes, just didn't see him really put anything great together this year.

Arkie
04-01-2012, 05:34 PM
Rep.

Here is a list of interior offensive linemen from the Big Ten that may get drafted this year, against whom Jerel Worthy may have lined up:

Kevin Zeitler, Wisconsin
Johnnie Troutman, Penn State
Ken Plue, Purdue
Peter Konz, Wisconsin
Mike Brewster, Ohio State
David Molk, Michigan

Here is a list of interior offensive linemen from Conference USA that may get drafted this year, against whom Dontari Poe may have lined up:

Ronald Leary, Memphis (in practice)

I rest my case.

Projected 4th rounder Quentin Saulsberry (#55) trying to stop Poe.
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/photo_images/3868736/59767_Mississippi_St_Memphis_Football.jpg

Lestat
04-01-2012, 05:41 PM
my bad, i swapped analogies for a moment. normally i use the reverse to make a point about Polamalu. but still, Reed was considered smallish and drafted on potential.
What? Reed was drafted the year before Polamalu.

Lestat
04-01-2012, 05:43 PM
Michigan travels better and sells more tickets. more to the point, MSU lucked their way into the game on a miracle and then got exposed in the rematch.

No, I don't think the Ravens would touch Poe in the first round.

And as far as the BCS bowl, I'm glad you enjoyed it, but come on, you can't honestly think that UM was more deserving of a BCS Bowl than MSU. Michigan State lost to Notre Dame and #14 Nebraska. Michigan lost to Iowa and Michigan State. Michigan State had 2 wins against Top 25 teams, Michigan had 1. Michigan State played in the Conference Championship Game, Michigan did not. I still for the life of me cannot figure out how UM got a BCS Bowl. Not saying Michigan State deserved one, but they certainly deserved it more than UM.

UberBroncoMan
04-01-2012, 05:52 PM
Alfred Williams said Poe was trash and had no idea how to play the game when you watched him on film. This only further confirms that.

Broncobiv
04-01-2012, 05:56 PM
Projected 4th rounder Quentin Saulsberry (#55) trying to stop Poe.
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/photo_images/3868736/59767_Mississippi_St_Memphis_Football.jpg

Trying to stop Poe? Looks like the RB already burst throug the hole right past Poe. I'd say the O lineman already did his job.

Lestat
04-01-2012, 06:01 PM
actually looks like Poe is behind the line and the RB is trying to get through the hole. you'll notice the two blockers in front of the RB. one is definitely a OL.
you'll also notice that the RB is ducking his head which only happens at the beginning and end of runs.
Trying to stop Poe? Looks like the RB already burst throug the hole right past Poe. I'd say the O lineman already did his job.

barryr
04-01-2012, 06:21 PM
If Cox is gone, then Worthy is the one to take at#25 if going with a DT, though I think a RB or WR would be the BPA there at that spot. I also like Mike Martin, who at 6'1, 306lbs is a load and athletic enough, but also has long arms too, so he would be a good pick in the 3rd.

houghtam
04-01-2012, 06:37 PM
Michigan travels better and sells more tickets. more to the point, MSU lucked their way into the game on a miracle and then got exposed in the rematch.

Hilarious!

MSU up 29-22 at the half and Wisconsin has to score 14 in the 4th quarter to win by 3, and Michigan State was "exposed"?

Begone. :wave:

DBroncos4life
04-01-2012, 07:17 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TJWWzCm9ivk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1cmA-CbyZ3M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I'm kind of liking this kid.

I heard the Steelers brought him in for an interveiw. If they are looking at him we should too.

Kaylore
04-01-2012, 07:35 PM
BroncoBuff likes this guy so I bet he is going to be good.

Can he do flips?

elsid13
04-01-2012, 08:32 PM
Can he do flips?

Not a full 360, just 270.

houghtam
04-01-2012, 08:33 PM
Not a full 360, just 270.

BONK!

Hey, maybe we can get Manning's doctor to make his neck stronger after that 270 degree broken neck, er...backflip.

DBroncos4life
04-01-2012, 08:59 PM
BONK!

Hey, maybe we can get Manning's doctor to make his neck stronger after that 270 degree broken neck, er...backflip.

Is that all you talk about?

Lestat
04-01-2012, 09:03 PM
they had a complete meltdown in the 4th, yeah they were exposed.
Hilarious!

MSU up 29-22 at the half and Wisconsin has to score 14 in the 4th quarter to win by 3, and Michigan State was "exposed"?

Begone. :wave:

ozomulsion
04-01-2012, 09:37 PM
lol i mainly say that because i'm biased against all MSU players as a Michigan fan.
but Worthy isn't a 1st round pick. he's a high 2nd rounder like Andy Dalton. he'll likely produce at the NFL level but i'm not convinced he'll become the type of player that warrants a 1st round pick because i don't think his ceiling is high enough for it.

now mind you, when i say what round i mean "draft value" wise, not player wise.
player wise Jenkins(CB) is a top 15 pick. draft value wise he's #25 or high 2nd.

haha. You word things as though most first round picks are better than players picked in lower rounds which isn't really true. It's all a crapshoot. But IF all the info in your post is even close to accurate... What the heck are you doing on a message board????????? You should be in a war room come draft day!!

houghtam
04-01-2012, 09:41 PM
they had a complete meltdown in the 4th, yeah they were exposed.

Hahahaha no. If a 3 point loss that almost went the other way on a blocked punt is exposed, State's 28-14 win over UM was Sparty taking his Little Sister out behind the woodshed.

"Exposed." Hilarious!

Try watching the games next time before commenting on them.

It helps.

ozomulsion
04-01-2012, 09:41 PM
they had a complete meltdown in the 4th, yeah they were exposed.

LOL You're pure gold dude. Hilarious!

houghtam
04-01-2012, 09:46 PM
haha. You word things as though most first round picks are better than players picked in lower rounds which isn't really true. It's all a crapshoot. But IF all the info in your post is even close to accurate... What the heck are you doing on a message board????????? You should be in a war room come draft day!!

It is absolutely true.

Go take a look at historical Pro Bowl rosters, All-Pro teams and HOFers. The highest number of players in those lists were drafted in the first round, then the second, and so on. The draft is only a crapshoot to people who aren't in the business.

Requiem
04-01-2012, 09:52 PM
Michigan State sucks. Lets draft Metean Cleaves.

houghtam
04-01-2012, 09:58 PM
Michigan State sucks. Lets draft Metean Cleaves.

Can he play DT?

/rimshot

He'd break off 2k in our system

/doublerimshot

and for the trifecta...

barryr
04-01-2012, 10:02 PM
The draft is more a crapshoot for teams with poor scouting and poor decision making.

houghtam
04-01-2012, 10:05 PM
The draft is more a crapshoot for teams with poor scouting and poor decision making.

Very true (see Bengals, Cincinnati), but the stats don't lie.

Just looking at HOF QBs, 13 drafted in the 1st round, 3 in the 3rd, 2 in the 4th, 1 in the 5th, 5 in the 7th or later (4 of whom were drafted back when they had 75 rounds for the draft, and one of whom was Warren Moon).