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FantomForce
03-31-2012, 01:21 PM
I've been all about drafting Robert Turbin out of Utah State, obviously by the Avatar. But now after his pro day I say we take Bobby Wagner as well. LB with 4.4 speed and lead the WAC in tackles this year http://news.hjnews.com/sports/article_7a61c8aa-7af3-11e1-8966-0019bb2963f4.html either way if we draft Turbin or Wagner I'll be in debt for an authentic jersey. Hell I might have to buy 2

Bmore Manning
03-31-2012, 01:33 PM
I like him as a two down Will, but I'm not sure that hes not better suited for Mike..

Chris
03-31-2012, 01:46 PM
Is he mormon? If so we must draft him to replace Larsen.

Ronnie Tsunami
03-31-2012, 02:01 PM
Holy ****. he just ran a 4.45 at his pro day...

Chris
03-31-2012, 02:05 PM
Holy ****. he just ran a 4.45 at his pro day...

Secret mormon treadmill track.

It's happened before - see: Mitt Romney's career.

barryr
03-31-2012, 02:21 PM
I mentioned him a few days ago too. He is a really good tackler and on tape, he plays and looks bigger than his measurables. I'd like him in the 2nd round, but with the holes at DT, the Broncos will probably worry about those spots. But I'd like him at any LB spot.

BroncoMan4ever
03-31-2012, 02:26 PM
I like him as a two down Will, but I'm not sure that hes not better suited for Mike..

I think MIKE is going to be Mays this year and Irving taking over. At least that seems to be the plan. DJ getting dumped would not surprise me and actually make me happy. Replace him with Wagner and ud be happy

FantomForce
03-31-2012, 03:13 PM
Is he mormon? If so we must draft him to replace Larsen.

sorry don't mean to rain on your parade but he is not mormon, spencer was a unique individual

BroncoInferno
03-31-2012, 06:37 PM
Mychal Kendricks from Cal was actually faster (4.41 40) and more productive against better competition. I hope we can get him in the 2nd.

That One Guy
03-31-2012, 07:45 PM
sorry don't mean to rain on your parade but he is not mormon, spencer was a unique individual

Isn't it a requirement in Utah?

Baba Booey
03-31-2012, 07:47 PM
Heard he outdid what most other LB's did at the combine at his pro day.


http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/ust/sports/m-footbl/auto_headshot/5672905.jpeg
<table valign="top" bgcolor="#000033" border="0" width="321"><tbody><tr><td valign="top"><table align="top" bgcolor="#000033" border="0" width="160"><tbody><tr><td valign="top">http://grfx.cstv.com/graphics/mtt/arrow.gif</td><td valign="top">Class:
Senior
</td></tr> <tr><td valign="top">http://grfx.cstv.com/graphics/mtt/arrow.gif</td><td valign="top">Hometown:
Ontario, Calif.
</td></tr> <tr><td valign="top">http://grfx.cstv.com/graphics/mtt/arrow.gif</td><td valign="top">High School:
Colony
</td></tr> </tbody></table> </td> <td valign="top"> <table align="top" bgcolor="#000033" border="0" width="160"> <tbody><tr><td valign="top">http://grfx.cstv.com/graphics/mtt/arrow.gif</td><td valign="top">Height / Weight:
6-1 / 232
</td></tr> <tr><td valign="top">http://grfx.cstv.com/graphics/mtt/arrow.gif</td><td valign="top">Position:
Linebacker
</td></tr> <tr><td valign="top">http://grfx.cstv.com/graphics/mtt/arrow.gif</td><td valign="top">Birthdate:
06/27/1990
</td></tr> <tr><td valign="top">http://grfx.cstv.com/graphics/mtt/arrow.gif</td><td valign="top">Experience:
3L
</td></tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

Butkus Award Trophy Preseason Watch List (2011)
Rotary Lombardi Award Watch List Preseason Watch List (2011)
Bronko Nagurski Trophy Preseason Watch List (2011)
First-Team Sporting News College Football Preview Preseason All-WAC (2011)
"Hardest Hitter" Sporting News College Football Preview Preseason All-WAC (2011)
First-Team Athlon Sports College Football Preview Preseason All-WAC (2011)
First-Team Phil Steele's College Football Preview Preseason All-WAC (2011)
Blue Ribbon College Football Yearbook Preseason All-WAC (2011)
First-Team All-WAC (2009, 2010)
First-Team Phil Steele's College Football Preview All-WAC (2010)
WAC Defensive Player of the Week (Nov. 8, 2010)
Blue Ribbon College Football Yearbook Preseason All-WAC (2010)
First-Team Lindy's College Football Preview Preseason All-WAC (2010)
Yahoo! Sports College Football Preview Preseason All-WAC (2010)
First-Team Athlon College Football Preview Preseason All-WAC (2010)
First-Team Phil Steele's College Football Preview Preseason All-WAC (2010)
CollegeFootballNews.com All-WAC (2009)
CollegeFootballNews.com WAC Top 30 Players (No. 19; 2009)
First-Team Phil Steele's College Football Preview All-WAC (2009)
Academic All-WAC (2009)
Quickly: A two-time first-team all-WAC honoree, becoming USU's first multiple first-team selection since Kevin Robinson earned all-Sun Belt honors in 2004 and all-WAC accolades in 2007, and USU's first back-to-back first-team honoree since Kevin Curtis earned first-team all-Independent honors in 2001 and 2002... Talented linebacker who is expected to continue stellar, well-decorated career... Anchors and leads not only linebacker corps but defensive unit... Enters senior season nearing USU's and WAC's career tackles list, currently with 299 career stops, needing 22 tackles to break into the Aggies' top 10 list and 18 stops to crack the WAC's top 10.
2010 (Jr.): Played in and started all 12 games during the 2010 season... Led the WAC and ranked tied for seventh in FBS with 11.1 tackles per game, ranking second in the WAC with 133 total tackles... Added eight tackles for loss with half a sack, as well as four pass breakups and one forced fumble... Had a WAC-best four 15+ tackle outings, including two 17-stop games, a 16-tackle game and a 15-tackle outing... Logged a total of seven double-digit tackle games, and had at least six stops in all 12 games... One of two career-best 17 tackles came against New Mexico State, earning WAC Defensive Player of the Week honors for first time of career... Was a nominee for WAC Defensive Player of the Week in six other games as well... Added one catch for 11 yards on a fake punt play in Idaho game.
2009 (So.): Started all 12 games, one of four defensive players and one of eight players overall to do so... Led the WAC with 115 tackles (53 solo, 62 assists), for a 9.6 tackles per game average... In WAC only games, also led the league with 71 total stops (35 solo, 36 assists) for an 8.9 pg average which ranked 22nd in tackles in the NCAA Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS)... Added seven tackles for loss, two interceptions, two forced fumbles, one fumble recovery and one pass break-up... The 115 tackles ranks as the second-most by a USU sophomore, as Johndale Carty holds the top spot with 138 stops as a sophomore in 1996... Was the first sophomore to lead USU in tackles since David Gill's 89 stops led the 1994 Aggies... The 115 stops is the most by an Aggie defender since Robert Watts tallied 118 tackles in 2003... Posted six double-figure tackle outings, led by season-best 13 at Texas A&M and against Boise State... Added 12 stop each in Utah and BYU games, while logging 11 at New Mexico State and 10 against San Jose State... Tallied seven or more stops in 11 of the 12 games, with a season-low four stops coming at Fresno State... Snared interceptions in Louisiana Tech and Idaho games, with the LA Tech oskie coming on a spectacular, one-handed grab... Fumble recoveries came in first and last games of season, at Utah and at Idaho, both of which set up scoring chances, resulting with a missed field goal in the Utah and the go-ahead score in the Idaho game... Lone pass break-up came in Idaho contest.
2008 (Fr.): Played in 11 games, starting last nine games of the season... Was sixth overall on the team in tackles with 51 total stops (20 solo, 31 assists), ranking third among returners... Added two tackles for loss as well as two pass break-ups and one QB hurry... Top outing was then career-high 10 stops at Louisiana Tech... Added seven tackles at Nevada and six at Boise State.
High School: Registered 125 tackles (92 solo, 33 assists), including four sacks as a senior... Had one INT for 34 yards... Also played tight end, tallying 37 catches for 595 yards with 11 TD's... Had total of six double-digit tackle outings, highlighted by season-high 14 (11 solo, three assists)... Received all-CIF Central Division honors as well as all-Mount Baldy League accolades... Earned second-team California Division 2 all-state honors after helping lead the Titans to a CIF division title and was named to the all-San Bernardino County team.
Personal: Born June 27, 1990 in Los Angeles, Calif... Son of Bobby and Phenia Wagner... Has two sisters and one brother... Majoring in business entrepreneurship.

Defense G/GS UT AT Total TFL Sacks INT PBU FF FR 2008 (Fr.) 11/9 20 31 51 2.0-2 0-0 0-0 2 0 0 2009 (So.) 12/12 53 62 115 8.0-22 0-0 2-32 3 2 1 2010 (Jr.) 12/12 61 72 133 8.0-15 0.5-3 0-0 4 0 1 Totals 35/33 134 165 299 18.0-39 0.5-3 2-32 9 2 2 </pre>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/17IRj4hzXZw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

147 tackles last year, including 20 in Utah State's 24-17 loss to Louisiana Tech.

Requiem
03-31-2012, 07:52 PM
Nobody likes Bobby Wagner besides his family.

ZONA
03-31-2012, 09:12 PM
Mychal Kendricks from Cal was actually faster (4.41 40) and more productive against better competition. I hope we can get him in the 2nd.

That's my boy (obviously, shananahan and I selected him in the mock draft, but in the 3rd).

This is where I was saying NO to selecting Osweiler in the 2nd. We NEED starting talent and right NOW. Can't afford to use a high pick on a guy who's projected to sit on the bench for 3 or 4 years.

Go DT in the 1st (one of those guys will be there). I would love a RB and LB in the 2nd and 3rd. Then OG and DT in 4th and 5th.

That One Guy
03-31-2012, 09:15 PM
That's my boy (obviously, shananahan and I selected him in the mock draft, but in the 3rd).

This is where I was saying NO to selecting Osweiler in the 2nd. We NEED starting talent and right NOW. Can't afford to use a high pick on a guy who's projected to sit on the bench for 3 or 4 years.

Go DT in the 1st (one of those guys will be there). I would love a RB and LB in the 2nd and 3rd. Then OG and DT in 4th and 5th.

But what positions can reasonably be expected to start in their rookie year? You mentioned two in LB and RB. I'd say sometimes DBs can but that REALLY depends on the player. DL, as a whole, rarely can be counted on early. Suh is the major exception.

The draft is where you build depth and hope they can develop into starters. Any time with a gaping hole going into the draft will be letdown if they think anyone they select is going to solve that problem.

Chris
03-31-2012, 09:19 PM
Go DT in the 1st (one of those guys will be there). I would love a RB and LB in the 2nd and 3rd. Then OG and DT in 4th and 5th.

I think you'll be happy. At this point I think we'll stay away from CB unless a great talent drops to us.

Shananahan
03-31-2012, 09:30 PM
But what positions can reasonably be expected to start in their rookie year? You mentioned two in LB and RB. I'd say sometimes DBs can but that REALLY depends on the player. DL, as a whole, rarely can be counted on early. Suh is the major exception.

The draft is where you build depth and hope they can develop into starters. Any time with a gaping hole going into the draft will be letdown if they think anyone they select is going to solve that problem.
Well yeah, but we've still gotta start stocking up on DL talent sooner or later.

That One Guy
03-31-2012, 09:39 PM
Well yeah, but we've still gotta start stocking up on DL talent sooner or later.

Agreed. I just don't want them to be expected to be the solution this year. Then, when you consider whether a QBOTF or a DT would be more valuable 2-3 years from now, I think QB comes into the discussion. At this point, we just need DTs to fill roster spots so QB has no business even being mentioned.

Lestat
03-31-2012, 10:31 PM
we should never have a draft again with less than 2 DL taken. preferably in the top 4 rounds.
Well yeah, but we've still gotta start stocking up on DL talent sooner or later.

FantomForce
04-01-2012, 06:08 AM
Sorry in the original post I meant to include that we should pick him up late 4th round. I think he'd be a great role player this year and maybe crack the lineup in about 2-3 years as a starter

Bmore Manning
04-01-2012, 06:16 AM
I think a trade down is the best option. I still maintain based on rankings I would only select Cox in the first, Thompson may be a slight reach. So I think a trade down for more picks is ideal, maybe phillys 2 second round picks, as they jump back to 25 for LT Mike Adams, if he's around.. Stockpiling picks would allow for more starters...

2. Brandon Thompson DT
2. Doug Martin RB
2. Bobby Wagner LB
3. Potential Starter
4. Potential Starter
4. Sammie Lee Hill DT (Tendered)
5. Best Available
6. Best Available

Bmore Manning
04-01-2012, 06:17 AM
Sorry in the original post I meant to include that we should pick him up late 4th round. I think he'd be a great role player this year and maybe crack the lineup in about 2-3 years as a starter

He's gone in the second round

Broncos_OTM
04-01-2012, 06:21 AM
Nobody likes Bobby Wagner besides his family.do you ever hear the crickets after one of your one liners?

Requiem
04-01-2012, 06:47 AM
do you ever hear the crickets after one of your one liners?

No, but I hear you like it in the butt.

Lestat
04-01-2012, 07:28 AM
i wouldn't mind taking him in the 2nd at all, i wouldn't mind trading out of the first for more 2nd's and 3rd's if the BPA isn't there and if the right value in a trade down is there.

Tombstone RJ
04-01-2012, 08:00 AM
Wagner in the 3rd or 4th would be good, not sure about the 2nd.

Lestat
04-01-2012, 08:07 AM
he's not going to last that long. 6-0 240+ and 4.4 speed. with scouts raving about him, a guy like Sean Spence can be had in that area because he's smaller and pegged more as a Mike than OLB but Wagner will not.
Wagner in the 3rd or 4th would be good, not sure about the 2nd.

FootballCorner
04-01-2012, 08:23 AM
he's not going to last that long. 6-0 240+ and 4.4 speed. with scouts raving about him, a guy like Sean Spence can be had in that area because he's smaller and pegged more as a Mike than OLB but Wagner will not.

I do not know if he lasts until the 4th, but I think it is possible. Wagner did well with his workouts, but if you watch his game film, he stands around a lot. He can struggle to get off some blocks. Runs around blockers to try and make plays and some teams are not interested in LBs that won't fill the hole with some thump. As for guys with similar physical attributes, here is what you are looking at:

Wagner-6', 241, ran a 4.48 forty. Good vert and broad jump, average bench. That 24 reps is not awe inspiring, kind of gives a reason why blockers are sticky. Who else is close to that?

Mychal Kendricks was all over those numbers at the combine. Right at 6'-239, 4.47, almost identical everywhere, better film.
Luke Kuechly-close 40, close in the other numbers, film smokes Wagner.
Nigel Bradham-little slower 40, close in other numbers, better film.
Zach Brown-little bigger, close 40, little behind in other numbers, hit or miss film, flashes of great play. Brown was also nursing an injury.
Demario Davis-close in size, slower in 40 (4.58), stronger, similar in other areas. MUCH better film.

The other group of Pro Day workout warriors include Levonte David, Jerry Franklin, Alex Hoffman-Ellis, James-Michael Johnson, Brandon Marshall, and Tyler Nielsen.

To me, Wagner just does not have the film to place him ahead of guys like Kendricks, Bradham, Brown, or Davis. I guess the bigger question is, how many LBs do you think go in the 2nd or 3rd round? History shows it will be between 7-11 LBs taken.

2012 Pro Football Draft Guide: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007NYQQWC

Tombstone RJ
04-01-2012, 08:24 AM
he's not going to last that long. 6-0 240+ and 4.4 speed. with scouts raving about him, a guy like Sean Spence can be had in that area because he's smaller and pegged more as a Mike than OLB but Wagner will not.

fair enough, I'm saying that the Broncos should not take him that high, maybe if he falls to the 3rd then yah.

oubronco
04-01-2012, 08:27 AM
I do not know if he lasts until the 4th, but I think it is possible. Wagner did well with his workouts, but if you watch his game film, he stands around a lot. He can struggle to get off some blocks. Runs around blockers to try and make plays and some teams are not interested in LBs that won't fill the hole with some thump. As for guys with similar physical attributes, here is what you are looking at:

Wagner-6', 241, ran a 4.48 forty. Good vert and broad jump, average bench. That 24 reps is not awe inspiring, kind of gives a reason why blockers are sticky. Who else is close to that?

Mychal Kendricks was all over those numbers at the combine. Right at 6'-239, 4.47, almost identical everywhere, better film.
Luke Kuechly-close 40, close in the other numbers, film smokes Wagner.
Nigel Bradham-little slower 40, close in other numbers, better film.
Zach Brown-little bigger, close 40, little behind in other numbers, hit or miss film, flashes of great play. Brown was also nursing an injury.
Demario Davis-close in size, slower in 40 (4.58), stronger, similar in other areas. MUCH better film.

The other group of Pro Day workout warriors include Levonte David, Jerry Franklin, Alex Hoffman-Ellis, James-Michael Johnson, Brandon Marshall, and Tyler Nielsen.

To me, Wagner just does not have the film to place him ahead of guys like Kendricks, Bradham, Brown, or Davis. I guess the bigger question is, how many LBs do you think go in the 2nd or 3rd round? History shows it will be between 7-11 LBs taken.

2012 Pro Football Draft Guide: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007NYQQWC

Nice first post

Lestat
04-01-2012, 08:37 AM
that's true but you forget that projection of potential is also important when scouts look at a player.
the buzz Wagner is getting means that scouts think his ceiling is higher than the floor he's shown on film and in college.

Kendricks is a player i really like but he's considered to be a undersized Mike who's closer to 5-11 than 6-0. i wouldn't mind drafting him either.
when you look at film you have to consider how the player is used, people keep saying Brockers and various others have so-so or crappy film but you're looking for what they've done, how they were used, what kind of player you think they're and how they project to be used in your scheme and how they could potentially blossom if they can be coached up.

ideally you want to have a supreme athlete, great film, great interviews and etc. look at Von last year, you had a ton of fans swear he was gonna be a surefire bust based on his size and film, they said he looked like he wouldn't be able to play LB in a 4-3, that he couldn't hold up at DE in a 4-3 and that he was a bad fit for the D.

they didn't factor in his work ethic, his lightning quick first step, his technique, his rush skills nor his ability to adapt and learn. it was all "we need Dareus to play DT" or "we need to trade down and draft Peterson".

I do not know if he lasts until the 4th, but I think it is possible. Wagner did well with his workouts, but if you watch his game film, he stands around a lot. He can struggle to get off some blocks. Runs around blockers to try and make plays and some teams are not interested in LBs that won't fill the hole with some thump. As for guys with similar physical attributes, here is what you are looking at:

Wagner-6', 241, ran a 4.48 forty. Good vert and broad jump, average bench. That 24 reps is not awe inspiring, kind of gives a reason why blockers are sticky. Who else is close to that?

Mychal Kendricks was all over those numbers at the combine. Right at 6'-239, 4.47, almost identical everywhere, better film.
Luke Kuechly-close 40, close in the other numbers, film smokes Wagner.
Nigel Bradham-little slower 40, close in other numbers, better film.
Zach Brown-little bigger, close 40, little behind in other numbers, hit or miss film, flashes of great play. Brown was also nursing an injury.
Demario Davis-close in size, slower in 40 (4.58), stronger, similar in other areas. MUCH better film.

The other group of Pro Day workout warriors include Levonte David, Jerry Franklin, Alex Hoffman-Ellis, James-Michael Johnson, Brandon Marshall, and Tyler Nielsen.

To me, Wagner just does not have the film to place him ahead of guys like Kendricks, Bradham, Brown, or Davis. I guess the bigger question is, how many LBs do you think go in the 2nd or 3rd round? History shows it will be between 7-11 LBs taken.

2012 Pro Football Draft Guide: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007NYQQWC

FootballCorner
04-01-2012, 09:57 AM
that's true but you forget that projection of potential is also important when scouts look at a player.
the buzz Wagner is getting means that scouts think his ceiling is higher than the floor he's shown on film and in college.

Kendricks is a player i really like but he's considered to be a undersized Mike who's closer to 5-11 than 6-0. i wouldn't mind drafting him either.
when you look at film you have to consider how the player is used, people keep saying Brockers and various others have so-so or crappy film but you're looking for what they've done, how they were used, what kind of player you think they're and how they project to be used in your scheme and how they could potentially blossom if they can be coached up.

ideally you want to have a supreme athlete, great film, great interviews and etc. look at Von last year, you had a ton of fans swear he was gonna be a surefire bust based on his size and film, they said he looked like he wouldn't be able to play LB in a 4-3, that he couldn't hold up at DE in a 4-3 and that he was a bad fit for the D.

they didn't factor in his work ethic, his lightning quick first step, his technique, his rush skills nor his ability to adapt and learn. it was all "we need Dareus to play DT" or "we need to trade down and draft Peterson".

I fully understand upside, ceilings and floors. But, you see guys like Poe fly up after posting combine numbers. Now the talk is his film is not that great and he is "sliding back down". He should have never jumped up to begin with. His workout numbers should have been expected. Anyone that knew about him knew he would sling the bar around. He was considered one of the strongest players at Memphis and they raved about his weight room work. Wagner is seeing a spike due to his workout numbers but his grade will settle back into the range he should be drafted, which is potentially the late 2nd through the 4th. And, he gets that grade based on the idea you can coach him up, just like Poe.

But, when you compare him to a guy like Mychael Kendricks, Kendricks has shown he can play any ILB position and OLB in a 4-3. He also plays OLB in a 3-4 but his size limits him at the next level. The size difference between Wagner and Kendricks is 1" and 2 pounds, not significant enough to toss one out in favor of the other. Kendricks has tape showing he can do it. He should also have upside. The difference, Kendricks can give you instant minutes where you are waiting on Wagner to develop, IF he does. It should also be noted that Wagner is credited with an 8 on his Wonderlic as a Junior. That does not bode well for him grasping schemes and new techniques quickly.

When you take things into account, you have to take it ALL into account. Smarts, athletic ability, frame (small hands and short arms may signal he is maxed out), and all the other things involved.

My point remains, if the workout thrust him to the top of the 2nd and he was not there before, there are players with similar physical attributes and better numbers in this draft.

2012 Pro Football Draft Guide: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007NYQQWC

FootballCorner
04-01-2012, 09:58 AM
Nice first post

No problem. I just love talking about the draft. It is like early Summer Christmas.

Lestat
04-01-2012, 10:42 AM
once again though, they play two different positions. 6-0 241 isn't considered small for a OLB. 5-11 239 is for a MLB when ideally you want 6-2 245+(depending on the scheme).

Kendricks tape was considered to be just ok by scouts before his combine showing. that made them look at it again and wonder why they missed certain things beforehand. Kendricks was seen as a guy who had to wow scouts at the combine to justify his draft stock and solidify his position.

as i said before, i like both players and would draft both.
but the things pushing Kendricks down the draft board aren't the same as what's pushing Wagner up because the expectations of each are different.

Kendricks was a seen as a solid guy with ok numbers who would be a low 2 to top 3 rounder before the combine. he's a middle 2nd or top 3rd after it.

Wagner was seen as a low 2nd to mid 3rd before the combine who's seen as a top 2nd to mid 2nd now.

Kendricks film is better and he's more likely to help now, but Wagner's ceiling is higher and his potential to play either OLB position gives you a bit more flexibility than Kendricks who is a clear cut Mike.

now it's all about who do you like better as a whole, from the film, to the talent, to the physical, to the potential.
i'm not saying Wagner is better than some of the similar guys to him.
i'm saying that his buzz and potential ceiling is higher than most outside of 2-3 of them.

several players a year are overdrafted and sometimes if backfires. but if the guy is BPA on your board then you have to do what it takes(outside of trading a future 1st for a current 2nd) to get him.
people say we overdrafted Franklin,Irving and Thomas last year. but they were BPA and the team did what it needed to do to get them.
whereas people thought Moore was a steal at his drafted position.

the jury is still out on all 4, but Franklin has made the most impact even though he was seen as the biggest project and a bad reach. you have to stay true to your board and draft the guys you belief in.

do i think Wagner should be a 2nd round pick? no, but do i think he'll get snapped up in the top 17 of round 2? yes i do and i'd rather it be the Broncos getting him and developing him(he does fit the mold of LB's that Fox liked in Carolina)and seeing him turn into a potential stud than to pass him up and watch him blossom elsewhere.

he may be a bust, may be just a ok player, but you have to draft guys with a certain upside to continuously get better.
I fully understand upside, ceilings and floors. But, you see guys like Poe fly up after posting combine numbers. Now the talk is his film is not that great and he is "sliding back down". He should have never jumped up to begin with. His workout numbers should have been expected. Anyone that knew about him knew he would sling the bar around. He was considered one of the strongest players at Memphis and they raved about his weight room work. Wagner is seeing a spike due to his workout numbers but his grade will settle back into the range he should be drafted, which is potentially the late 2nd through the 4th. And, he gets that grade based on the idea you can coach him up, just like Poe.

But, when you compare him to a guy like Mychael Kendricks, Kendricks has shown he can play any ILB position and OLB in a 4-3. He also plays OLB in a 3-4 but his size limits him at the next level. The size difference between Wagner and Kendricks is 1" and 2 pounds, not significant enough to toss one out in favor of the other. Kendricks has tape showing he can do it. He should also have upside. The difference, Kendricks can give you instant minutes where you are waiting on Wagner to develop, IF he does. It should also be noted that Wagner is credited with an 8 on his Wonderlic as a Junior. That does not bode well for him grasping schemes and new techniques quickly.

When you take things into account, you have to take it ALL into account. Smarts, athletic ability, frame (small hands and short arms may signal he is maxed out), and all the other things involved.

My point remains, if the workout thrust him to the top of the 2nd and he was not there before, there are players with similar physical attributes and better numbers in this draft.

2012 Pro Football Draft Guide: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007NYQQWC