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View Full Version : Cold Hard Football Facts article on Manning and Rivers


Black96WS6
03-25-2012, 10:47 AM
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_5355_Rivers,_not_Manning,_best_of_the_AFC_West. html

The “Where Will Peyton Go?”soap opera is now over. And with the future Hall-of-Fame QB taking his talents to the Rocky Mountains, the football “pundits,” and a few Denver players are beside themselves with orgasmic joy at the thought of what a healthy Manning can do for a Broncos team that came out of nowhere to win the AFC West in 2011...<more>

Anyone seen this yet?

rbackfactory80
03-25-2012, 10:52 AM
I have been saying this from day 1. Don't like the fact he is playing San Diego 2 times a year.

NUB
03-25-2012, 11:03 AM
If I remember correctly the counter-argument to all these glaring issues and pitfalls is simply, "But... he's Peyton Manning."

winstoncup bronco
03-25-2012, 11:04 AM
Obviously this writer needs to go back for another round of "all this team needed was Peyton Manning" treatment.

http://screencrave.frsucrave.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/total-recall-560.jpg

KO5K
03-25-2012, 11:04 AM
Manning is River's bitch.

Captain 'Dre
03-25-2012, 01:03 PM
Except for the age difference (and coming off the neck injury thing), I think it's safe to call these two QBs pretty equal. That's not a knock on either.

It IS true, however, that Rivers has had the better success when they've gone head-to-head. But even if this 'trend' were to continue, the Broncos will still win considerably more games with Manning at QB than would be the case with Orton, Tebow, or a slew of other QBs.

Chris
03-25-2012, 01:23 PM
Are people forgetting how absolutely **** Rivers was last year?

KO5K
03-25-2012, 01:25 PM
Are people forgetting how absolutely **** Rivers was last year?

Maybe it's the same people forgetting Manning didn't play at all last year due to injury...

BroncoBeavis
03-25-2012, 01:30 PM
SD is the best team in the league at playing to their competition. They could've beat the Packers last year. They thumped the Ravens.

Then lost to the the Broncs, Jets, Cheaps and Fade.

But nobody can look past 'em.

bombay
03-25-2012, 01:30 PM
Remember when San Diego was good?

extralife
03-25-2012, 01:32 PM
there's a difference between 14-2 Chargers teams in 2006 and what they're going to put onto the field next year.

Cass
03-25-2012, 01:39 PM
Remember when San Diego was good?

They are probably the biggest waste of talent that I've seen in the past six or seven years. With the roster they've had in that time, they should have at least played in a couple of Super Bowls. And now they seem to be declining and Rivers looked like he actually regressed last year.

I'm sure it's nice to say that you "own" Peyton Manning but what's the point if you can't even make it out of the division come playoff time?

kappys
03-25-2012, 01:42 PM
The Broncos defense didn't really allow too many points last year until the end of the season when we were banged up and our lack of depth showed. I don't see why they would be worse than the Colts SB winning teams (I would choose our pass rush of Von Doom over Freeney and co.

Tombstone RJ
03-25-2012, 02:20 PM
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_5355_Rivers,_not_Manning,_best_of_the_AFC_West. html



Anyone seen this yet?

hard to argue with the numbers. The Bronco best beef up their defense and rely more on the running game. If they do these two things, I very much doubt this dominance by Rivers in head-to-head match ups continue.

gyldenlove
03-25-2012, 02:37 PM
I love how you can cherry pick a stat and build an article around it.

In 2008, the Colts rushed for 80 yards per game, the Chargers for 108.
In 2009, the Colts rushed for 80 yards per game, the Chargers for 89.
In 2010, the Colts rushed for 93 yards per game, the Chargers for 113.

So the Chargers had the better run game, the better pass game (in theory) and yet the Colts won 13, 14 and 10 games in those 3 seasons respectively while the Chargers won 8, 13 and 9.

In fact in every single one of those seasons the Colts won more games than the Chargers, and don't think defense was the difference, in 2008 the Colts defense was 50 points better than the Chargers over the whole year, but in 2009 only 13 total points separated the two and in 2010 the Chargers defense was quite a bit better than the Colts.

Fact is that Rivers is a good QB on a good team, but when he has to carry the burden he crumbles, as witnessed by his 20 interceptions in 2011. Manning has consistently carried a team with dwindling talent to 10+ wins.

Tombstone RJ
03-25-2012, 02:45 PM
I love how you can cherry pick a stat and build an article around it.

In 2008, the Colts rushed for 80 yards per game, the Chargers for 108.
In 2009, the Colts rushed for 80 yards per game, the Chargers for 89.
In 2010, the Colts rushed for 93 yards per game, the Chargers for 113.

So the Chargers had the better run game, the better pass game (in theory) and yet the Colts won 13, 14 and 10 games in those 3 seasons respectively while the Chargers won 8, 13 and 9.

In fact in every single one of those seasons the Colts won more games than the Chargers, and don't think defense was the difference, in 2008 the Colts defense was 50 points better than the Chargers over the whole year, but in 2009 only 13 total points separated the two and in 2010 the Chargers defense was quite a bit better than the Colts.

Fact is that Rivers is a good QB on a good team, but when he has to carry the burden he crumbles, as witnessed by his 20 interceptions in 2011. Manning has consistently carried a team with dwindling talent to 10+ wins.

I think you missed the point of the article.

Agamemnon
03-25-2012, 02:45 PM
Rivers' stats do not mean he is better than Manning. Manning is far better at actually winning in the regular season, while both kind of suck in the playoffs. Seriously, after years of Charger failure with Rivers putting up gaudy stats, no one gets that the guy is an overrated turd?

rugbythug
03-25-2012, 03:00 PM
I am glad that Peton is playing for the Broncos. The chargers have beaten the Colts a lot.

KipCorrington25
03-25-2012, 03:08 PM
SD is the best team in the league at playing to their competition. They could've beat the Packers last year. They thumped the Ravens.

Then lost to the the Broncs, Jets, Cheaps and Fade.

But nobody can look past 'em.

San Diego is the greatest (insert losing record here) team in NFL history! :strong:

Boltjolt
03-25-2012, 04:25 PM
I love how you can cherry pick a stat and build an article around it.

In 2008, the Colts rushed for 80 yards per game, the Chargers for 108.
In 2009, the Colts rushed for 80 yards per game, the Chargers for 89.
In 2010, the Colts rushed for 93 yards per game, the Chargers for 113.

So the Chargers had the better run game, the better pass game (in theory) and yet the Colts won 13, 14 and 10 games in those 3 seasons respectively while the Chargers won 8, 13 and 9.

In fact in every single one of those seasons the Colts won more games than the Chargers, and don't think defense was the difference, in 2008 the Colts defense was 50 points better than the Chargers over the whole year, but in 2009 only 13 total points separated the two and in 2010 the Chargers defense was quite a bit better than the Colts.

Fact is that Rivers is a good QB on a good team, but when he has to carry the burden he crumbles, as witnessed by his 20 interceptions in 2011. Manning has consistently carried a team with dwindling talent to 10+ wins.

:oyvey: Righttt....lets not forget in the 2010 season in which Vince Jackson only played in 5 games(and one was for only 1 series), Floyd was hurt half the season, Legadu Naanee missed 8 games and Gates missed a lot of games and they had to sign Patrick Crayton, Kelly Washington and force undrafted rookie Seyi Arijotutu to play, they had the worst ST's play in history, and used a NFL record tying 74 different players that year. Rivers...carried that team and set a record by completing passes to 17 different players.

Yes they still only finished 8-8 but ST's blunders lost them three games. It wasnt Rivers. He was absolutely brilliant. Yes he threw 20 INT's last season which was a career high but still otherwise had good numbers. An off year for him is still much better than many QB's.

He has carried the team plenty over the years. Just didnt have his usual season last year but the 2nd half of last season he was pretty good:

Rivers games 1-8...4-4...193...305...63.3...2,469...8.10...11...14..... 81.4
Rivers games 9-16..4-4...173...277...62.5...2,155...7.78...19....6....1 00.4

Bacchus
03-25-2012, 04:36 PM
The Colts did lose the the Chargers, but that is because the Colts could not run the ball. Denver isn't the Colts. I think Manning will do just fine aainst a Charger team that has had Indianapolis' number.

Denver isn't Indy.

Hamrob
03-25-2012, 05:28 PM
Really, anyone who believes that Phillip Rivers is better than Peyton Manning....has no clue about football.

Manning has had great stats. But, stats aren't what make Peyton Manning. Managing the game is what makes Peyton Manning one of, if not the best ever.

I happen to think Rivers is a great QB too. Rivers has played exceptionally over a long period of time. Yet, his teams have choked when it mattered most. I dont exclude him from the conversation of great QB's, but he's not in Marino's league...and certainly not Manning's either.

Silly analysis if you ask me.

winstoncup bronco
03-25-2012, 06:05 PM
Really, anyone who believes that Phillip Rivers is better than Peyton Manning....has no clue about football.

Manning has had great stats. But, stats aren't what make Peyton Manning. Managing the game is what makes Peyton Manning one of, if not the best ever.

I happen to think Rivers is a great QB too. Rivers has played exceptionally over a long period of time. Yet, his teams have choked when it mattered most. I dont exclude him from the conversation of great QB's, but he's not in Marino's league...and certainly not Manning's either.

Silly analysis if you ask me.

I tend to agree, but what is your definition of choking? If you mean playoff games, it's not like Manning has a great record either. 9-10, with a 3-6 record outside of the dome. Rivers has 3 playoff wins, two of them against Manning. Manning does have one Super Bowl win, but it's not like he's a postseason god.

Hamrob
03-25-2012, 06:52 PM
I tend to agree, but what is your definition of choking? If you mean playoff games, it's not like Manning has a great record either. 9-10, with a 3-6 record outside of the dome. Rivers has 3 playoff wins, two of them against Manning. Manning does have one Super Bowl win, but it's not like he's a postseason god.I guess the best way I could describe it is this:

Take John Elway away from those 80's and early 90's team....and the Broncos would struggle to win many if anygames.

Take Peyton Manning a way from the Colts...and well, we saw the results.

Take Rivers a way from the Chargers...and, well, I don't think it would be all that different. That team has been stacked with talent. And, with all that Talent, Rivers hasn't been able to get them to the Super Bowl.

That's very telling to me. The Colts and the Broncos Pre-1995 were talent deprived, yet their QB always seemed to find a way to win 10-11 games a year on average.

Big Difference in my book...

UberBroncoMan
03-25-2012, 07:06 PM
Are people forgetting how absolutely **** Rivers was last year?

To be fair he was ****ing stellar to close out the season. Like one of the best in the NFL good.

Final 6 games he was 12 TD's to 3 INT with 4 games at 123+ QBR.

Only sacked twice in that span too.

OBF1
03-25-2012, 07:14 PM
I have seemed to miss the part where Rivers or the chargers won a superbowl.

Peyton = 1 superbowl win

Chargers entire crappy history = 0 superbowl wins

Boltjolt
03-25-2012, 07:15 PM
I guess the best way I could describe it is this:

Take John Elway away from those 80's and early 90's team....and the Broncos would struggle to win many if anygames.

Take Peyton Manning a way from the Colts...and well, we saw the results.

Take Rivers a way from the Chargers...and, well, I don't think it would be all that different. That team has been stacked with talent. And, with all that Talent, Rivers hasn't been able to get them to the Super Bowl.

That's very telling to me. The Colts and the Broncos Pre-1995 were talent deprived, yet their QB always seemed to find a way to win 10-11 games a year on average.

Big Difference in my book...

:clown: That is really just an ignorant post. Dude if Rivers went down, we would be ****ed! I gave you an example above and to think Rivers dont carry this team when the defense is bad and the OL was ravaged with injuries and the WR's were all hurt is quite ridiculous.

We have been lucky that he hasnt missed any games because of injury even though he tore his ACL and still played in the AFC championship game. Morons will say he choked but the guy was playing on one leg and almost pulled it out. Pretty remarkable if you ask me. Not to mention Gates played with a toe injury that required surgery afterwards and LT couldnt play either. The three best weapons on the team were severely hobbled.

Even more remarkable is that they didnt trust Volek enough to play better with two good legs. Thats how much Rivers means to that team. Now our backup is Charlie Whitehurst and i hope he never see's the field either.

Please try to remember that our HC is Norv Turner. Great QB mentor, bad HC.

winstoncup bronco
03-25-2012, 07:28 PM
I guess the best way I could describe it is this:

Take John Elway away from those 80's and early 90's team....and the Broncos would struggle to win many if anygames.

Take Peyton Manning a way from the Colts...and well, we saw the results.

Take Rivers a way from the Chargers...and, well, I don't think it would be all that different. That team has been stacked with talent. And, with all that Talent, Rivers hasn't been able to get them to the Super Bowl.

That's very telling to me. The Colts and the Broncos Pre-1995 were talent deprived, yet their QB always seemed to find a way to win 10-11 games a year on average.

Big Difference in my book...

Manning has always had much more talented teams, even right out of the gate. He had Marshall Faulk his rookie year along with Harrison, and then Edgerrin James the year after. Elway had crap for most of his career.

Elway will always be the greatest of all time IMO, and unlike alot of people here, my overall opinion of Manning doesn't change because he's in Denver. He's a great QB, but not in Elway's class. That is my opinion. I'm not crazy about Manning's postseason record, and I'm not crazy about the fact that it is what it is despite the talent his teams have had. 9-10 is not good.

As for Rivers, it's hard to say what his absence would mean since he's never been out, so to sell him short on that is a little hypocritical since Manning is so revered for never missing a game either.

mhgaffney
03-25-2012, 07:28 PM
San Diego is the greatest (insert losing record here) team in NFL history! :strong:

This.

The league's greatest underachievers.

That ever was -- or ever will be.