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pricejj
03-23-2012, 09:29 AM
@AdamSchefter
And now, former Colts C Jeff Saturday officially has agreed to a deal with the Green Bay Packers. Nice Packers pickup.

boppool
03-23-2012, 09:32 AM
SIGH... Can't fault him for signing with Packers, but would've like him in orange & blue...

g6matty
03-23-2012, 09:33 AM
over it

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 09:33 AM
Must be in it for one last shot at a ring. LOL

SonOfLe-loLang
03-23-2012, 09:34 AM
We could really use a new center

BroncoBen
03-23-2012, 09:34 AM
Dang it.. !! :flush:

bronco militia
03-23-2012, 09:37 AM
so much for that idea/misinformation. I wonder where Clark is going to play.

JLesSPE
03-23-2012, 09:39 AM
oh well, he's old anyway. I hope JD is smart enough to learn Peyton's offense quickly

broncosteven
03-23-2012, 09:39 AM
Here is to hoping Walton and Beadles can keep Manning upright

SonOfLe-loLang
03-23-2012, 09:40 AM
I wonder how important the center's line calls are to the offense and how complicated it is? You would think if it were absolutely essential, they would have made him an offer he couldnt refuse.

houghtam
03-23-2012, 09:41 AM
It's okay, signing Manning will have those free agents lined up to play for us.

Ha!

pricejj
03-23-2012, 09:44 AM
Welcome to the worst pass-blocking, and lowest paid Offensive Line in the NFL, Peyton Manning.

Beantown Bronco
03-23-2012, 09:46 AM
Welcome to the worst pass-blocking, and lowest paid Offensive Line in the NFL, Peyton Manning.

Evidence?

houghtam
03-23-2012, 09:47 AM
Welcome to the worst pass-blocking, and lowest paid Offensive Line in the NFL, Peyton Manning.

No, see, the offensive line is actually good. See, when you pass a lot, it's okay to give up 40 sacks in a season, because it's just a percentage of total plays. If your quarterback takes 25 sacks in 16 games on a run first team, he's actually getting hit more than someone who takes 40 sacks in 16 games on a pass first team.

So, our offensive line is good. We're going to pass a lot, so if Manning only gets sacked 40 times, it will be like he only got sacked 20 times.

Darkhawk24
03-23-2012, 09:49 AM
It happens ... I liked the idea of Peyton's center following him, but it's not the end of the world by any means.

pricejj
03-23-2012, 09:50 AM
Evidence?

30. Denver Broncos

Run Rank 32nd, Pass Rank 22nd, Penalties Rank 23rd

Best Player: In something of a surprise, it graded out as Orlando Franklin (-9.1). Denver’s best run blocker, Franklin had some issues in pass protection but improved as the season went on.

Worst Player: You kind of expect J.D. Walton (-28.9) to start getting better, but the man who finished second-from-the-bottom in Pass Blocking Efficiency ranking for centers had an even worse sophomore year. This is a crucial third year coming up for him.


http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/02/22/ranking-the-2011-offensive-lines-part-1/

Sorry...not the "worst", but damn close. If we would have passed the ball more last year, I'm sure it would have been the worst.

g6matty
03-23-2012, 09:51 AM
peter konz at 25!

Bronco Yoda
03-23-2012, 09:54 AM
Wow, I must admit. I kinda automatically assumed Saturday was already shopping for rental houses in Denver.

pricejj
03-23-2012, 09:54 AM
peter konz at 25!

Yep, and hope to god Ryan Harris is miraculously healed (or draft Mike Adams). They better hope they can sign Jacob Tamme, because they won't have the luxury of drafting an offensive weapon in the 1st round.

This team is so full of holes/bad players, its pathetic.

peacepipe
03-23-2012, 09:55 AM
TT was getting sacked on avg. 3 times a game, as where KO was gettin sacked on avg. 1.8x a game.

crush17
03-23-2012, 09:56 AM
Yep, and hope to god Ryan Harris is miraculously healed (or draft Mike Adams). Then draft a WR in the 2nd.

This team is so full of holes/bad players, its pathetic.

Well make sure you pick up the heavy flow tampons when youre at the store later, k?

houghtam
03-23-2012, 09:56 AM
Yep, and hope to god Ryan Harris is miraculously healed (or draft Mike Adams). Then draft a WR in the 2nd.

This team is so full of holes/bad players, its pathetic.

So then who plays DT?

Garcia Bronco
03-23-2012, 09:56 AM
Welcome to the worst pass-blocking, and lowest paid Offensive Line in the NFL, Peyton Manning.

Nonsense.

If manning holds the ball for 5 plus seconds and has anticipation problems and inexperience, then you might be right.

There is a reason out LT, who led the league in holding penalties, still made the pro bowl.


Further still...if you think things through...we won't see 9 in the box every play either...or we'll beat teams by 100 points.

55CrushEm
03-23-2012, 09:58 AM
No, see, the offensive line is actually good. See, when you pass a lot, it's okay to give up 40 sacks in a season, because it's just a percentage of total plays. If your quarterback takes 25 sacks in 16 games on a run first team, he's actually getting hit more than someone who takes 40 sacks in 16 games on a pass first team.

So, our offensive line is good. We're going to pass a lot, so if Manning only gets sacked 40 times, it will be like he only got sacked 20 times.

LOL

g6matty
03-23-2012, 09:58 AM
why would we need another reciever in the second.

baja
03-23-2012, 09:58 AM
Wow, I must admit. I kinda automatically assumed Saturday was already shopping for rental houses in Denver.

Ya me too.

peacepipe
03-23-2012, 09:59 AM
if KO played the full season KO would still have less sacks then the 33 tebow had in 11 games.

houghtam
03-23-2012, 09:59 AM
Nonsense.

If manning holds the ball for 5 plus seconds and has anticipation problems and inexperience, then you might be right.

There is a reason out LT, who led the league in holding penalties, still made the pro bowl.

Yeah our offensive line is awesome. They weren't a sieve before Tebow. Kuper isn't coming off a horrific injury. Beadles and Walton are quality starters. Clady deserved to go to the Pro Bowl.

Stitches will have plenty of time to get rid of the ball.

55CrushEm
03-23-2012, 10:00 AM
Well make sure you pick up the heavy flow tampons when youre at the store later, k?

Oh jeez.....god forbid, anyone say ANYTHING critical of our roster.

30499

Kaylore
03-23-2012, 10:01 AM
Yeah I'm not sad about Saturday. He is 37 and was starting to really show his age.

Garcia Bronco
03-23-2012, 10:03 AM
Yeah our offensive line is awesome. They weren't a sieve before Tebow. Kuper isn't coming off a horrific injury. Beadles and Walton are quality starters. Clady deserved to go to the Pro Bowl.

Stitches will have plenty of time to get rid of the ball.

Ole KO likes to hold the ball too.

On top of everything else...and it should be evident by the comments from the players all week...they'll be even more motivated to play harder.

pricejj
03-23-2012, 10:05 AM
So then who plays DT?

Hopefully they can draft a pass-rushing DT (Crick/Wolfe) in the 2nd.


I realize the Broncos won't draft an offensive lineman high, because adding a rookie, to an already crappy line, would probably get Peyton Manning killed.

They better hope these guys miraculously get ALOT better.

55CrushEm
03-23-2012, 10:05 AM
Yeah I'm not sad about Saturday. He is 37 and was starting to really show his age.

That's only 1 year older than Peyton.......just sayin'.

razorwire77
03-23-2012, 10:05 AM
Somewhat surprised. But it's not like he took a money grab to play for a ****ty team. Looks like another year of Walton.

houghtam
03-23-2012, 10:08 AM
Ole KO likes to hold the ball too.

On top of everything else...and it should be evident by the comments from the players all week...they'll be even more motivated to play harder.

Gotcha, so now that the argument that Stitches will bring all the FAs to Denver isn't holding water, he's going to miraculously make our players play better.

Cool story, bro.

SonOfLe-loLang
03-23-2012, 10:08 AM
I would have to think that if Saturday was as essential as we thought he might be, they would have given him an offer he couldnt refuse.

pricejj
03-23-2012, 10:10 AM
Yeah our offensive line is awesome. They weren't a sieve before Tebow. Kuper isn't coming off a horrific injury. Beadles and Walton are quality starters. Clady deserved to go to the Pro Bowl.

Stitches will have plenty of time to get rid of the ball.

Clady - most penalized LT in the NFL
Beadles - worst LG in the NFL
Walton - worst C in the NFL
Kuper - foot on sideways
Franklin - playing out of position at RT

Good luck, Stitches, you're gonna need it.

Gort
03-23-2012, 10:10 AM
Ya me too.

makes you wonder... why don't Manning's former teammates want to play with him in Denver? we were told that Wayne and Saturday and Clark were slam dunks to sign wherever Manning signed. so far 2 of them have chosen other teams. seems peculiar to me.

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 10:11 AM
Oh jeez.....god forbid, anyone say ANYTHING critical of our roster.

30499

Gotta watch out for these "Helicopter Parents" or so I'm told. :)

baja
03-23-2012, 10:11 AM
You would think Saturday would give the equivalent of a home town discount to reunite with Peyton, leads me to think either Saturday is not as enamored by the thought of playing with PM or the Broncos feel like they can do better,

Beantown Bronco
03-23-2012, 10:12 AM
[B]Sorry...not the "worst", but damn close.

Not really. There's a pretty big difference between 22nd and 32nd.

Do teams that are ranked 10th in something say they're "the best"?

DENVERDUI55
03-23-2012, 10:12 AM
The OL will block better by default with a real QB under C.

houghtam
03-23-2012, 10:13 AM
makes you wonder... why don't Manning's former teammates want to play with him in Denver? we were told that Wayne and Saturday and Clark were slam dunks to sign wherever Manning signed. so far 2 of them have chosen other teams. seems peculiar to me.

Could it be because his giant candy apple head is held on to his neck with a piece of scotch tape and some chewing gum?

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 10:13 AM
makes you wonder... why don't Manning's former teammates want to play with him in Denver? we were told that Wayne and Saturday and Clark were slam dunks to sign wherever Manning signed. so far 2 of them have chosen other teams. seems peculiar to me.

Yeah, we'll end up with Clark in a wheelchair and they'll be telling us about HE's the piece that puts this team over the top. :)

baja
03-23-2012, 10:13 AM
makes you wonder... why don't Manning's former teammates want to play with him in Denver? we were told that Wayne and Saturday and Clark were slam dunks to sign wherever Manning signed. so far 2 of them have chosen other teams. seems peculiar to me.

Ya it does raise the suspicions.

Garcia Bronco
03-23-2012, 10:14 AM
Gotcha, so now that the argument that Stitches will bring all the FAs to Denver isn't holding water, he's going to miraculously make our players play better.

Cool story, bro.


I don't know. It's not a claim I made, so it's not something I need to defend.

Gort
03-23-2012, 10:14 AM
The OL will block better by default with a real QB under C.

magic beans make everyone better.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XHPIrX1kLC4/TZ9lUocqa4I/AAAAAAAAAmQ/jd5FQntRpqU/s1600/Magic_Beans_by_normandapito.jpg

SonOfLe-loLang
03-23-2012, 10:14 AM
makes you wonder... why don't Manning's former teammates want to play with him in Denver? we were told that Wayne and Saturday and Clark were slam dunks to sign wherever Manning signed. so far 2 of them have chosen other teams. seems peculiar to me.

Wayne signed before Manning did. Who knows if we want clark (did we even bring him in)?

All the "Manning's boys will follow him" speculation came from the media...not elway or manning himself. That's a two way street.

but, by all means, keep tooting your "anti-manning" horn.

Kaylore
03-23-2012, 10:14 AM
That's only 1 year older than Peyton.......just sayin'.

We're talking about a Center. A high impact position. Linemen start to show their age at 35, RB's at 30, Corners and receivers at 32. HOF QB's at 57.

houghtam
03-23-2012, 10:15 AM
Wayne signed before Manning did. Who knows if we want clark (did we even bring him in)?

All the "Manning's boys will follow him" speculation came from the media...not elway or manning himself. That's a two way street.

but, by all means, keep tooting your "anti-manning" horn.

The speculation came from this board, as well, when a lot of us thought it was BS. Turns out, look at that, it was BS.

Stagger Lee
03-23-2012, 10:16 AM
Wayne signed before Manning did. Who knows if we want clark (did we even bring him in)?

All the "Manning's boys will follow him" speculation came from the media...not elway or manning himself. That's a two way street.

but, by all means, keep tooting your "anti-manning" horn.

^ This. The usual suspects have turned this into another butt hurt for Tebow being gone/Manning being here thread. Get over it already. Tired schtick is tired.

yerner
03-23-2012, 10:17 AM
Is there a oline man we can draft in the 1st?

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 10:18 AM
^ This. The usual suspects have turned this into another butt hurt for Tebow being gone/Manning being here thread. Get over it already. Tired schtick is tired.

Helicopter parenting.

houghtam
03-23-2012, 10:18 AM
^ This. The usual suspects have turned this into another butt hurt for Tebow being gone/Manning being here thread. Get over it already. Tired schtick is tired.

Wrong. Garcia Bronco made the first mention of Tebow in this thread.

Gort
03-23-2012, 10:19 AM
Wayne signed before Manning did. Who knows if we want clark (did we even bring him in)?

All the "Manning's boys will follow him" speculation came from the media...not elway or manning himself. That's a two way street.

but, by all means, keep tooting your "anti-manning" horn.

i'm not going to accuse you of being a Tebow hater because i know you weren't, but i do find it amusing that the EXACT SAME people who attacked and ridiculed and mocked anyone who supported Tebow on this site and called them Teboners, are defending their boy Manning precisely the same way that they railed against when the so-called "Teboners" did it.

pricejj
03-23-2012, 10:20 AM
Not really. There's a pretty big difference between 22nd and 32nd.

Do teams that are ranked 10th in something say they're "the best"?

See post #37.

With 8 passing attempts per game, and opposing DE's staying in their lane so Tebow wouldn't break contain....it's easy to disguise yourself at #22. Orton wasn't the king of dirtballs for no reason.

1. Can Kuper even walk?
2. Is there anyone on the roster who can get open in less than 5 seconds?
3. Let me guess, McCoy employs McDaniel's "ball-control" offense again...leading to the lowest scoring total (Rams) in the NFL last year.
4. You do remember Ninkovich owning Franklin right?
5. Walton is the worst pass blocking C in the NFL.

Championship teams are built through the Offensive and Defensive Lines...and the Broncos units are complete ****.

Stagger Lee
03-23-2012, 10:21 AM
Helicopter parenting.

No worse than how you protect your precious Tebow. God, I liked the kid, but I swear I'm glad he's gone. The irrational lovefest and the "he isn't getting treated fairly" **** is old. Its professional football for ****s sake.

Heyneck
03-23-2012, 10:23 AM
@AdamSchefter
And now, former Colts C Jeff Saturday officially has agreed to a deal with the Green Bay Packers. Nice Packers pickup.

sure looks like people are flocking to play with Peyton....

DBroncos4life
03-23-2012, 10:24 AM
If you can't tell the difference between Manning in the pocket vs Orton/Tebow please stop posting here.

Heyneck
03-23-2012, 10:26 AM
Is there a oline man we can draft in the 1st?

a C would be nice. But we got bigger holes to fill on DEF with the #1 pick. A DT anyone???

crush17
03-23-2012, 10:27 AM
If you can't tell the difference between Manning in the pocket vs Orton/Tebow please stop posting here.

/end thread.

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 10:27 AM
No worse than how you protect your precious Tebow. God, I liked the kid, but I swear I'm glad he's gone. The irrational lovefest and the "he isn't getting treated fairly" **** is old. Its professional football for ****s sake.

Says the guy crying giant crocodile tears over people criticizing one of the worst O-Lines in football.

Heyneck
03-23-2012, 10:28 AM
If you can't tell the difference between Manning in the pocket vs Orton/Tebow please stop posting here.

Agree... but don't try to overlook our problems on our Oline. If it is the same one come opening day... Peyton will be seen constantly screaming at that group. He has thrown his Oline under the bus before. With Beadles and Walton trying to protect his ass... it is bound to happen again.

houghtam
03-23-2012, 10:30 AM
See post #37.

With 8 passing attempts per game, and opposing DE's staying in their lane so Tebow wouldn't break contain....it's easy to disguise yourself at #22. Orton wasn't the king of dirtballs for no reason.

1. Can Kuper even walk?
Kuper will come back with a robo-leg and win the Super Bowl, World Series and Stanley Cup because he's that good. No coincidence that his dad posts here.
2. Is there anyone on the roster who can get open in less than 5 seconds?
The receivers don't need to get open, they just have to make eye contact with Manning and he'll will the ball into their hands...and then they'll promptly drop it.
3. Let me guess, McCoy employs McDaniel's "ball-control" offense again...leading to the lowest scoring total (Rams) in the NFL last year.
Manning runs this offense, not McCoy.
4. You do remember Ninkovich owning Franklin right?
Ninkovich was only able to get by Franklin because Tebow doesn't know how to get rid of the ball. It has nothing to do with Franklin playing football like the purple Teletubby.
5. Walton is the worst pass blocking C in the NFL.
When you have to snap the ball to Tebow, you automatically get worse because Tebow sucks. But with Manning behind center, him touching Walton's bum every play will make him better by proximity. Also it will be kind of fitting that Manning will be behind a Bronco who's bending over in front of him.

Championship teams are built through the Offensive and Defensive Lines...and the Broncos units are complete ****.
We didn't need a line for our Super Bowls, why do we need one now?

Responses in bold.

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 10:30 AM
Agree... but don't try to overlook our problems on our Oline. If it is the same one come opening day... Peyton will be seen constantly screaming at that group. He has thrown his Oline under the bus before. With Beadles and Walton trying to protect his ass... it is bound to happen again.

They gloss over all this teams obvious flaws with

....Mannnnninnnnnng! (zoolander face)....

Whilst criticizing others for irrational fanboyism.

houghtam
03-23-2012, 10:32 AM
They gloss over all this teams obvious flaws with

....Mannnnninnnnnng! (zoolander face)....

Whilst criticizing others for irrational fanboyism.

That in most cases doesn't exist.

jerseyguy4
03-23-2012, 10:36 AM
Losing Saturday sorta sucks. But I am surprised any other team would want to outbid Denver for him. He's friggin old. I can really only see him being worth something decent to Denver, where we want him specifically because of his experience with Peyton.

...unless he wasn't offered much to come here....

I don't think losing him is a huge loss. Manning and the O-line are just going to have to work that much harder preseason to get in sync

Heyneck
03-23-2012, 10:37 AM
They gloss over all this teams obvious flaws with

....Mannnnninnnnnng! (zoolander face)....

Whilst criticizing others for irrational fanboyism.

yup...bunch of hypocrites here. They are blinded by their homer ism. That's why I try to look at everything objectively. But don't worry about it... they will be b****ing about the problems when they can see them with their own eyes (if they are able to take down their orange tinted glasses.)

Walton sucks and there is nothing you can say about it. But yeah... Saturday passes on us... and suddenly..."We don't need him"..."he is old". Yeah...I don't agreed with signing him either... I think we can do better... but is funny how people say Manning would be able to get his buddys to come here... when actually they don't care.

Heyneck
03-23-2012, 10:38 AM
Losing Saturday sorta sucks. But I am surprised any other team would want to outbid Denver for him. He's friggin old. I can really only see him being worth something decent to Denver, where we want him specifically because of his experience with Peyton.

...unless he wasn't offered much to come here....

I don't think losing him is a huge loss. Manning and the O-line are just going to have to work that much harder preseason to get in sync

Ohhh look... a Peytonite!!!

DBroncos4life
03-23-2012, 10:40 AM
Agree... but don't try to overlook our problems on our Oline. If it is the same one come opening day... Peyton will be seen constantly screaming at that group. He has thrown his Oline under the bus before. With Beadles and Walton trying to protect his ass... it is bound to happen again.

Pretty sure everyone of those tolls (you included) mocking us not getting him was bitching about the idea of bringing him in in the first place. We need C help and the team knows it. We will move on to the next guy now. I'm not worried.

Beantown Bronco
03-23-2012, 10:42 AM
See post #37.

With 8 passing attempts per game, and opposing DE's staying in their lane so Tebow wouldn't break contain....it's easy to disguise yourself at #22. Orton wasn't the king of dirtballs for no reason.


Kyle Orton only got sacked at a rate of 2x per game. He is more immobile in the pocket than Manning and has a slower release, yet somehow Manning is going to get sacked twice as much?!?

Please.

1. Can Kuper even walk?
2. Is there anyone on the roster who can get open in less than 5 seconds?
3. Let me guess, McCoy employs McDaniel's "ball-control" offense again...leading to the lowest scoring total (Rams) in the NFL last year.
4. You do remember Ninkovich owning Franklin right?
5. Walton is the worst pass blocking C in the NFL.

Championship teams are built through the Offensive and Defensive Lines...and the Broncos units are complete ****.

1. Don't know Kuper's status.
2. You do realize that getting open for Manning and getting open for Tebow are like night and day, don't you? Orton didn't have a problem completing passes at a record pace. Why will Manning?
3. We'll have a nice balanced offense.
4. Franklin could be moving to guard for all we know. Harris is fine at RT when healthy.
5. Yup. And if he's our starter, I'm sure he'll get a lot of help. If not, at least the pressure will come up the middle where Manning can see it and anticipate it and motion the TE or RB over to help him or instruct a guard to do so. He is the master of this. Or it could be something as simple as signing someone better. It's not September yet. He could easily be replaced still.

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 10:44 AM
Pretty sure everyone of those tolls (you included) mocking us not getting him was b****ing about the idea of bringing him in in the first place. We need C help and the team knows it. We will move on to the next guy now. I'm not worried.

Just like all the guys talking about how it's no big deal now were just yesterday talking about how Saturday was going to help Quarterback the Line for Peyton and get them all instantly in-sync with Manning's complex scheme.

DBroncos4life
03-23-2012, 10:48 AM
Just like all the guys talking about how it's no big deal now were just yesterday talking about how Saturday was going to help Quarterback the Line for Peyton and get them all instantly in-sync with Manning's complex scheme.

He would have.

55CrushEm
03-23-2012, 10:49 AM
We're talking about a Center. A high impact position. Linemen start to show their age at 35, RB's at 30, Corners and receivers at 32. HOF QB's at 57.

THAT would be awesome.

Tombstone RJ
03-23-2012, 10:50 AM
Losing Saturday sorta sucks. But I am surprised any other team would want to outbid Denver for him. He's friggin old. I can really only see him being worth something decent to Denver, where we want him specifically because of his experience with Peyton.

...unless he wasn't offered much to come here....

I don't think losing him is a huge loss. Manning and the O-line are just going to have to work that much harder preseason to get in sync

This. Fact is, Saturday is old, very old, especially for an olineman. Also, from Saturday's point of view, the Packers offer him just as good of a chance to win a ring as the Broncos do. Also, has anyone perhaps considered that Saturday just wanted a change? I'm sure he likes Manning just fine but working with Rogers is not a bad deal either.

It would have been real nice to have Saturday simply because Walton is does not inspire anyone. That being said, perhaps Manning's style will work better for Walton.

houghtam
03-23-2012, 10:50 AM
Just like all the guys talking about how it's no big deal now were just yesterday talking about how Saturday was going to help Quarterback the Line for Peyton and get them all instantly in-sync with Manning's complex scheme.

Just like any other homerism, it will go from Saturday will help Manning QB the line to we didn't need Saturday to we're actually better off without Saturday after all because now Manning can just mind meld with the rest of the offense and cut out the middle man. Now we just need to figure out of there's any way good old Stitches can eschew the oline all together, snap the ball to himself, and see if the league will allow us to play an extra 5 players on defense instead.

MVP-06
03-23-2012, 10:50 AM
Not to bummed about missing out on a 40 yr. old center. He line will make strides with Manning putting them where they need to be.

Heyneck
03-23-2012, 10:52 AM
Pretty sure everyone of those tolls (you included) mocking us not getting him was b****ing about the idea of bringing him in in the first place. We need C help and the team knows it. We will move on to the next guy now. I'm not worried.

Sure hope so... Walton sucks... and my point was... we have Peyton!!! Why didn't Saturday sign with us??? Since It was said by all of you that all of his buddies would want to sign with us without having to think about it!!! ROFL!

oubronco
03-23-2012, 10:52 AM
Thought they were a package deal Damn it

canadianbroncosfan
03-23-2012, 10:52 AM
Ya it does raise the suspicions.

How does it raise suspicions?

Wayne resigned with his own team BEFORE Manning went anywhere so not sure if that's all that surprising. Wayne said right from the get go that he and Manning weren't joined at the hip.

As far as Saturday, it's the ****ing Packers. Regardless of the Manning signing, we still aren't the top Super Bowl contenders, they are!

Heyneck
03-23-2012, 10:55 AM
He would have.

Yeah... but why didn't he come to play with his buddy Peyton? Since... having Peyton means his old teammates instantly want to play with him.

Gutless Drunk
03-23-2012, 10:55 AM
Good, The only ex-colt I wanted was Manning...maybe Tamme if the price is right.

DBroncos4life
03-23-2012, 10:57 AM
Sure hope so... Walton sucks... and my point was... we have Peyton!!! Why didn't Saturday sign with us??? Since I was said by all of you that all of his buddies would want to sign with us without having to think about it!!! ROFL!
Well I can't draw for you in crayons that most of the former Colts signed before Manning did. We lost Saturday, troll away.

Garcia Bronco
03-23-2012, 10:58 AM
If you can't tell the difference between Manning in the pocket vs Orton/Tebow please stop posting here.

This

Garcia Bronco
03-23-2012, 10:58 AM
Wrong. Garcia Bronco made the first mention of Tebow in this thread.

But he was right that you are butt hurt about something. It has me in stitches.

Heyneck
03-23-2012, 10:58 AM
This. Fact is, Saturday is old, very old, especially for an olineman. Also, from Saturday's point of view, the Packers offer him just as good of a chance to win a ring as the Broncos do. Also, has anyone perhaps considered that Saturday just wanted a change? I'm sure he likes Manning just fine but working with Rogers is not a bad deal either.

It would have been real nice to have Saturday simply because Walton is does not inspire anyone. That being said, perhaps Manning's style will work better for Walton.

No... it just means he knows Greenbay gives him a better shot at a championship.

DBroncos4life
03-23-2012, 10:59 AM
Yeah... but why didn't he come to play with his buddy Peyton? Since... having Peyton means his old teammates instantly want to play with him.

Says the dumb **** that said Manning wouldn't sign here in the first place Ha!

Heyneck
03-23-2012, 11:00 AM
Just like any other homerism, it will go from Saturday will help Manning QB the line to we didn't need Saturday to we're actually better off without Saturday after all because now Manning can just mind meld with the rest of the offense and cut out the middle man. Now we just need to figure out of there's any way good old Stitches can eschew the oline all together, snap the ball to himself, and see if the league will allow us to play an extra 5 players on defense instead.

Nahhh we got Manning. We don't need no OL because the ball is in the air before it's hiked....

Rolandftw
03-23-2012, 11:01 AM
Also, from Saturday's point of view, the Packers offer him just as good of a chance to win a ring as the Broncos do. Also, has anyone perhaps considered that Saturday just wanted a change? I'm sure he likes Manning just fine but working with Rogers is not a bad deal either.


Not to be super negative, but I'm fairly certain the Packers have a much better chance of winning the Super Bowl next year, then we do.

Our defense got shredded by top offenses (Packers, Patriots, Lions). Manning's great and all, but he isn't going to fix all of our problems. None of our signings so far have really done much to fix the defensive side of the ball, either. If anything, we're a worse defensive team with the loss of Bunkley.

Hope we hit gold in the draft...

Heyneck
03-23-2012, 11:02 AM
How does it raise suspicions?

Wayne resigned with his own team BEFORE Manning went anywhere so not sure if that's all that surprising. Wayne said right from the get go that he and Manning weren't joined at the hip.

As far as Saturday, it's the ****ing Packers. Regardless of the Manning signing, we still aren't the top Super Bowl contenders, they are!

Thank God.... at least one of you gets it!

Heyneck
03-23-2012, 11:05 AM
Says the dumb **** that said Manning wouldn't sign here in the first place Ha!

And this means??? what??? Yeah I said I didn't think he would sign here. But I was always opened minded. Now... please elaborate. You were one of the posters that said that once Manning signed here all his buddies would come here... why hasn't that happened? Please...explain...

houghtam
03-23-2012, 11:07 AM
But he was right that you are butt hurt about something. It has me in stitches.

Has you in Stitches? Convenient, that's my nickname for Manning...though I would have thought Stitches would be in you. Maybe this is a Yakov Smirnoff type thing?

In Soviet Russia...

Garcia Bronco
03-23-2012, 11:08 AM
Has you in Stitches? Convenient, that's my nickname for Manning...though I would have thought Stitches would be in you. Maybe this is a Yakov Smirnoff type thing?

In Soviet Russia...

LOL

DBroncos4life
03-23-2012, 11:09 AM
And this means??? what??? Yeah I said I didn't think he would sign here. But I was always opened minded. Now... please elaborate. You were one of the posters that said that once Manning signed here all his buddies would come here... why hasn't that happened? Please...explain...

You said he wouldn't sign. He did, so you were wrong
I thought Saturday would follow Manning. He didn't. I was wrong, so shut the **** up about it or keep being a god damn pathetic troll.

houghtam
03-23-2012, 11:09 AM
And this means??? what??? Yeah I said I didn't think he would sign here. But I was always opened minded. Now... please elaborate. You were one of the posters that said that once Manning signed here all his buddies would come here... why hasn't that happened? Please...explain...

Somehow, the fact that they were signed before he made his decision negates the fact that he was wrong. It's like a do-over, I think.

Heyneck
03-23-2012, 11:10 AM
Well I can't draw for you in crayons that most of the former Colts signed before Manning did. We lost Saturday, troll away.

Again... only Wayne signed before Manning came. Yeah...that sure sounds like most... hahaha turd. Not even his old backup TE came here when he would start over Green and Thomas for sure.


Look I like Manning. I am hoping for a superbowl in the next 3 years. (Playoffs in all those years) But the truth is... we are not superbowl contenders right now!!! The other players signing with other teams just shows me this. They think there are better opportunities out there.

Heyneck
03-23-2012, 11:11 AM
You said he wouldn't sign. He did, so you were wrong
I thought Saturday would follow Manning. He didn't. I was wrong, so shut the **** up about it or keep being a god damn pathetic troll.

I am sorry but I ain't a troll. Your amount of post... on the other hand...

DBroncos4life
03-23-2012, 11:13 AM
Again... only Wayne signed before Manning came. Yeah...that sure sounds like most... hahaha turd. Not even his old backup TE came here when he would start over Green and Thomas for sure.


Look I like Manning. I am hoping for a superbowl in the next 3 years. (Playoffs in all those years) But the truth is... we are not superbowl contenders right now!!! The other players signing with other teams just shows me this. They think there are better opportunities out there.

Garson, Wayne, and Gonzalos. Denver is still in the running for Tamme and we don't seem to don't want Clark.

Heyneck
03-23-2012, 11:13 AM
Not to be super negative, but I'm fairly certain the Packers have a much better chance of winning the Super Bowl next year, then we do.

Our defense got shredded by top offenses (Packers, Patriots, Lions). Manning's great and all, but he isn't going to fix all of our problems. None of our signings so far have really done much to fix the defensive side of the ball, either. If anything, we're a worse defensive team with the loss of Bunkley.

Hope we hit gold in the draft...

Hide... you are about to be called a troll, Tebownite...

HILife
03-23-2012, 11:13 AM
Clady - most penalized LT in the NFL
Kuper - worst LG in the NFL
Walton - worst C in the NFL
Kuper - foot on sideways
Franklin - playing out of position at RT

Good luck, Stitches, you're gonna need it.

How could you possible rate Kuper so low?!?!?! They guy plays LG and RG at the same time. That's a baaaaad man!!

houghtam
03-23-2012, 11:14 AM
Again... only Wayne signed before Manning came. Yeah...that sure sounds like most... hahaha turd. Not even his old backup TE came here when he would start over Green and Thomas for sure.


Look I like Manning. I am hoping for a superbowl in the next 3 years. (Playoffs in all those years) But the truth is... we are not superbowl contenders right now!!! The other players signing with other teams just shows me this. They think there are better opportunities out there.

Didn't Brodrick Bunkley leave us to go to the Saints, even though they were likely facing huge penalties for them due to bountygate?

LMFAO

Yeah, people are lining up around the corner to come to Denver!

DBroncos4life
03-23-2012, 11:16 AM
I am sorry but I ain't a troll. Your amount of post... on the other hand...

LOl I haven't seen one of your posts till Denver was going after Manning. Now you are just trolling away.

Stagger Lee
03-23-2012, 11:16 AM
Says the guy crying giant crocodile tears over people criticizing one of the worst O-Lines in football.

You know Beavis, I always thought you were a pretty funny/good poster until we signed Manning. Every post from you since that day has basically said the same thing: Elway is the devil, Tebow got the shaft, The Broncos as a whole suck, and were 100000% better with Tebow. Oh, and something about the children being disillusioned that was just asinine.

If you feel that way, fine, but do we have to **** up every thread on the mane with the same B.S.? We get it already.

DBroncos4life
03-23-2012, 11:17 AM
Didn't Brodrick Bunkley leave us to go to the Saints, even though they were likely facing huge penalties for them due to bountygate?

LMFAO

Yeah, people are lining up around the corner to come to Denver!

Didn't Porter leave the Saints to play for Denver?

Heyneck
03-23-2012, 11:17 AM
Garson, Wayne, and Gonzalos. Denver is still in the running for Tamme and we don't seem to don't want Clark.

Gonzales sucks...he has like 5 rec in the last 3 years... Garson is going to be #1 for WAS, and Wayne welll he screwed the pooch. But I get your point. Valid... I just didn't know we were going to target and sign his 3 wrs and 2 tight ends...

Beantown Bronco
03-23-2012, 11:20 AM
Some of you "adults" really need to cry more. It'll make it all better. Really.

Heyneck
03-23-2012, 11:21 AM
Didn't Porter leave the Saints to play for Denver?

because the saint aren't going to have the HC and AHC/DC for the year or most of it. And it Porter was so sure this was the right place... why did he sign for only 1 year? (Love the signing by the way... anyway we can get rid of Goodman is a good thing). I think players want to make sure that Peyton is going to be able to play for more than one year. Hence if Peyton is healthy come 2013... Porter should re sign.

TonyR
03-23-2012, 11:21 AM
Yeah, people are lining up around the corner to come to Denver!

You're avoiding the important fact that other teams are paying these guys more money than our FO is willing to. Saturday visited the Broncos and the Broncos probably made him their best offer. And then he visited GB and they were willing to offer more because they had a larger need at the position because they lost their own starting center in FA. These guys aren't "rejecting" the Broncos. They're accepting other contracts that pay them more $. It's really that simple.

Heyneck
03-23-2012, 11:25 AM
LOl I haven't seen one of your posts till Denver was going after Manning. Now you are just trolling away.

Please... keep being the precocious like kid you sound like. Again... try to make this thing about Manning... I am way over it. I just want to know why all this FA that were supposed for Peyton to make a decision aren't coming here. Try to stay on subject...troll.

TonyR
03-23-2012, 11:26 AM
I just want to know why all this FA that were supposed for Peyton to make a decision aren't coming here.

Answer: Money.

Gort
03-23-2012, 11:26 AM
I am sorry but I ain't a troll. Your amount of post... on the other hand...

i was accused of being a troll several times yesterday. want to know why? because i didn't list Elway in my own personal list of 5 favorite QBs of all time. see how that works? anybody with a differing opinion from anyone else on the OM is now fair game for being called a troll.

e.g.,

if i like strawberry ice cream and you like chocolate, you're a troll.
if i like Jeeps and you like BMWs, you're a troll.
if i like green and you like blue, you're a troll.

i figured i'd kick some more sand in their v*****s by changing my avatar to my personal all time favorite QB, who was a true Colt... a Baltimore Colt... and a damned good QB too. :)

Heyneck
03-23-2012, 11:28 AM
You're avoiding the important fact that other teams are paying these guys more money than our FO is willing to. Saturday visited the Broncos and the Broncos probably made him their best offer. And then he visited GB and they were willing to offer more because they had a larger need at the position because they lost their own starting center in FA. These guys aren't "rejecting" the Broncos. They're accepting other contracts that pay them more $. It's really that simple.

Saturday didn't get to meet with us. He was supposed to meet today. But I agree... players look for paydays. They could care less about playing with another friend as long as they can provide best for their family.

Gort
03-23-2012, 11:28 AM
Saturday didn't get to meet with us. He was supposed to meet today. But I agree... players look for paydays. They could care less about playing with another friend as long as they can provide best for their family.

maybe Manning has cold hands. ???

;)

Heyneck
03-23-2012, 11:30 AM
Answer: Money.

But by having Manning... shouldn't we have the upper hand with this players? Again... this is what I was told by most of the people that where gaga over Manning coming here. Don't you remember the report about the FA waiting for Peyton to make a choice?

TonyR
03-23-2012, 11:31 AM
i was accused of being a troll several times yesterday. want to know why? because i didn't list Elway in my own personal list of 5 favorite QBs of all time. see how that works? anybody with a differing opinion from anyone else on the OM is now fair game for being called a troll.


So you seriously don't understand how a Bronco fan would find it odd that somebody else calling themselves a Bronco fan wouldn't put the greatest Bronco ever among their 5 favorites at the QB position? We're talking about a Hall of Famer who took the Broncos to 5 Super Bowls and helped win the only two in the organization's history. And you don't put him in your 5 favorite? It would be one thing to say he isn't among the 5 best. But not among your 5 favorite? And you're a Bronco fan? Odd, to say the least.

DBroncos4life
03-23-2012, 11:31 AM
Gonzales sucks...he has like 5 rec in the last 3 years... Garson is going to be #1 for WAS, and Wayne welll he screwed the pooch. But I get your point. Valid... I just didn't know we were going to target and sign his 3 wrs and 2 tight ends...

We let two TEs go and another is suspend and you didn't think we think we would be be targeting two TEs?

pricejj
03-23-2012, 11:31 AM
How could you possible rate Kuper so low?!?!?! They guy plays LG and RG at the same time. That's a baaaaad man!!

Beadles

DBroncos4life
03-23-2012, 11:32 AM
because the saint aren't going to have the HC and AHC/DC for the year or most of it. And it Porter was so sure this was the right place... why did he sign for only 1 year? (Love the signing by the way... anyway we can get rid of Goodman is a good thing). I think players want to make sure that Peyton is going to be able to play for more than one year. Hence if Peyton is healthy come 2013... Porter should re sign.

So Bunkley is retarded and Porter isn't. Thanks!

TonyR
03-23-2012, 11:32 AM
Saturday didn't get to meet with us. He was supposed to meet today. But I agree... players look for paydays. They could care less about playing with another friend as long as they can provide best for their family.

I stand corrected, I thought we had him in. And I think a player can be a factor, but money is usually going to be the largest factor. Clearly the Broncos didn't make Saturday as much of a priority as the Pack did.

Heyneck
03-23-2012, 11:33 AM
i was accused of being a troll several times yesterday. want to know why? because i didn't list Elway in my own personal list of 5 favorite QBs of all time. see how that works? anybody with a differing opinion from anyone else on the OM is now fair game for being called a troll.

e.g.,

if i like strawberry ice cream and you like chocolate, you're a troll.
if i like Jeeps and you like BMWs, you're a troll.
if i like green and you like blue, you're a troll.

i figured i'd kick some more sand in their v*****s by changing my avatar to my personal all time favorite QB, who was a true Colt... a Baltimore Colt... and a damned good QB too. :)

I get you man! Thank God I am a true bronco fan!!! I am all about the horse head... the ghost bronco!!!

Gort
03-23-2012, 11:34 AM
So you seriously don't understand how a Bronco fan would find it odd that somebody else calling themselves a Bronco fan wouldn't put the greatest Bronco ever among their 5 favorites at the QB position? We're talking about a Hall of Famer who took the Broncos to 5 Super Bowls and helped win the only two in the organization's history. And you don't put him in your 5 favorite? It would be one thing to say he isn't among the 5 best. But not among your 5 favorite? And you're a Bronco fan? Odd, to say the least.

what does "greatest" have to do with "favorite"?

Sophia Loren is considered one of the greatest beauties of all time. i look at photos of her from the 50's and all i can say is, "meh?"

i'm just not a big Elway fan. i never have been. i don't hate him. i respect what he did. but he's not even on my list of favorite Broncos.

why does that make me a troll? is it because i'm supposed to mindlessly go along with groupthink?

Heyneck
03-23-2012, 11:34 AM
I stand corrected, I thought we had him in. And I think a player can be a factor, but money is usually going to be the largest factor. Clearly the Broncos didn't make Saturday as much of a priority as the Pack did.

Appreciate you rational conversation... even though we don't agree on much.

fontaine
03-23-2012, 11:39 AM
The value of a good center can't be underestimated with the kind of offense Manning wants to run.

Yes, PM will be making a lot of presnap adjustments, line calls, audibles etc. We KNOW he can do that.

But none of that is going to work if the Center doesn't know what he's talking about, can't direct the rest of the OL like Saturday used to do all the time at the line of scrimmage.

I have minimal confidence that Walton can handle the cerebral part of that and why should he? He's clearly struggled with a scaled down, minimized playbook last season, what makes anyone think he'll suddenly lock down the kind of complex adjustments, audibles and play calls that are routine in a high octane passing offense?

We should definitely bring in Dan Koppen for a look. He's an intelligent center who worked a pass first offense and has extensive playoff experience with the Pats.

He's been replaced by a younger Center and still wants to play on and can be had for cheap since the other centers have already been signed.

Just ****ing do it.

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 11:40 AM
You know Beavis, I always thought you were a pretty funny/good poster until we signed Manning. Every post from you since that day has basically said the same thing: Elway is the devil, Tebow got the shaft, The Broncos as a whole suck, and were 100000% better with Tebow. Oh, and something about the children being disillusioned that was just asinine.

If you feel that way, fine, but do we have to **** up every thread on the mane with the same B.S.? We get it already.

I could point out multiple times last year when I said our oline was ****. It's not my fault if a bunch of magical thinkers think Manning comes with a Staples reset button and makes all our problems go away. We sold our soul on a two year window. We can't afford to sit around waiting for long-term solutions to our problems to fall out of college.

It's all or nothing over the next two seasons.

TonyR
03-23-2012, 11:41 AM
what does "greatest" have to do with "favorite"?

Sophia Loren is considered one of the greatest beauties of all time. i look at photos of her from the 50's and all i can say is, "meh?"

i'm just not a big Elway fan. i never have been. i don't hate him. i respect what he did. but he's not even on my list of favorite Broncos.

why does that make me a troll? is it because i'm supposed to mindlessly go along with groupthink?

It's one thing to not be one of your favorite Broncos. He's not my favorite Bronco. But how can he not be one of your 5 favorite QB's? Which is what you stated? He's the greatest Bronco player of all time!

As to your first quesition, I can understand how a Bronco fan might believe that Montano or Marino or Brady or whoever is the "greatest" ever instead of Elway. But favorite? Come on, the greatest Bronco ever isn't among your 5 favorite QB's ever? Really?

Stagger Lee
03-23-2012, 11:43 AM
I could point out multiple times last year when I said our oline was ****. It's not my fault if a bunch of magical thinkers think Manning comes with a Staples reset button and makes all our problems go away. We sold our soul on a two year window. We can't afford to sit around waiting for long-term solutions to our problems to fall out of college.

It's all or nothing over the next two seasons.

This is the NFL. It's all or nothing EVERY season.

Heyneck
03-23-2012, 11:43 AM
So you seriously don't understand how a Bronco fan would find it odd that somebody else calling themselves a Bronco fan wouldn't put the greatest Bronco ever among their 5 favorites at the QB position? We're talking about a Hall of Famer who took the Broncos to 5 Super Bowls and helped win the only two in the organization's history. And you don't put him in your 5 favorite? It would be one thing to say he isn't among the 5 best. But not among your 5 favorite? And you're a Bronco fan? Odd, to say the least.

Maybe... him... like me... didn't get to see Elway play. Do I think he is among the top 5 QBs ever??? Hell yes!!! I am a Bronco fan and it's up to us to get up to speed on the history of the franchise. But would I consider him among my 5 favorites. Sorry, no! I didn't get to see him.

Which should tell you about my fan hood. Most of you are fans of the Broncos because of Elway... his comebacks...his SB wins. Me on the other hand started watching the Broncos in 2000. Brian Griese, Ed Mac, R Smith, Mike Anderson... I bleed orange and blue!!! And forever will. It's just funny people calling other trolls or not fans when they don't agree with their point of view.

Gort
03-23-2012, 11:44 AM
I could point out multiple times last year when I said our oline was ****. It's not my fault if a bunch of magical thinkers think Manning comes with a Staples reset button and makes all our problems go away. We sold our soul on a two year window. We can't afford to sit around waiting for long-term solutions to our problems to fall out of college.

It's all or nothing over the next two seasons.

i agree with this and it was one of my worries about pursuing Manning.

the problem is that you've got people so riled up to argue with you now that they won't take the time to see if what you're posting is valid. it's just a Pavlovian response for some of them now to disagree and insult you.

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 11:47 AM
This is the NFL. It's all or nothing EVERY season.

Go tell it to the Colts or maybe the 2008 Packers. You know- the team that Mr Saturday thinks has the best chance to win.

peacepipe
03-23-2012, 11:47 AM
you dumbasses critisize us for ignoring this or that, but you guy ignore the fact that our oline played damn good for KO. there was never anything wrong with our oline.

Gort
03-23-2012, 11:49 AM
Maybe... him... like me... didn't get to see Elway play. Do I think he is among the top 5 QBs ever??? Hell yes!!! I am a Bronco fan and it's up to us to get up to speed on the history of the franchise. But would I consider him among my 5 favorites. Sorry, no! I didn't get to see him.

Which should tell you about my fan hood. Most of you are fans of the Broncos because of Elway... his comebacks...his SB wins. Me on the other hand started watching the Broncos in 2000. Brian Griese, Ed Mac, R Smith, Mike Anderson... I bleed orange and blue!!! And forever will. It's just funny people calling other trolls or not fans when they don't agree with their point of view.

i started following the Broncos in 1977. i was a kid. back in those days, you didn't get to see Broncos games on TV if you lived on the east coast. until i moved into the Broncos broadcast territory, i was lucky to catch 4 or 5 Broncos games a year on TV. Elway retired before i lived in an area where i could watch all the games each season. except for the playoffs and MNF games, i rarely got to see Elway play.

Heyneck
03-23-2012, 11:52 AM
you dumbasses critisize us for ignoring this or that, but you guy ignore the fact that our oline played damn good for KO. there was never anything wrong with our oline.

LOL Hilarious! Dude... take off your tinted colored glasses.

BroncoBen
03-23-2012, 11:56 AM
You're avoiding the important fact that other teams are paying these guys more money than our FO is willing to. Saturday visited the Broncos and the Broncos probably made him their best offer. And then he visited GB and they were willing to offer more because they had a larger need at the position because they lost their own starting center in FA. These guys aren't "rejecting" the Broncos. They're accepting other contracts that pay them more $. It's really that simple.

Especially with these older players.. gotta get the best payday possible, you figure its going to be their last rodeo.

peacepipe
03-23-2012, 11:58 AM
TT was getting sacked on avg. 3 times a game, as where KO was gettin sacked on avg. 1.8x a game.lets see TT got sacked 33 times in 11 games, KO got sacked 9 times in 5 games. these are facts,but then again facts may not be your strong suit.

Stagger Lee
03-23-2012, 11:59 AM
Go tell it to the Colts or maybe the 2008 Packers. You know- the team that Mr Saturday thinks has the best chance to win.

Fine. you're right. I'm wrong. Manning sucks, Tebow rules, Broncos to be 0-16 due to ****ty o-line and terrible qb play.

BroncoInferno
03-23-2012, 12:00 PM
LOL Hilarious! Dude... take off your tinted colored glasses.

Some facts for you and Beavis (I posted these numbers in another thread):

The sack rate last season with Orton with 5.5%. With Tebow, the sack rate nearly doubled to 10.9%. In '10, it went from 3.8% with Orton to 6.8% with Tebow.

Sack % is the fourth column from right-to-left:

Orton: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OrtoKy00.htm

Tebow: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TeboTi00.htm

In 2010, with Orton the primary QB, we had the lowest sack % in the league.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/sack-pct?date=2011-02-07

The 5.5% rate from 2011 projected over the season would have been good for 6th lowest in the league.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/sack-pct

Our OL is a lot better in pass protection when Tebow isn't the QB. And we all know Orton has little-to-no pocket awareness.

Stagger Lee
03-23-2012, 12:01 PM
Some facts for you and Beavis (I posted these numbers in another thread):

The sack rate last season with Orton with 5.5%. With Tebow, the sack rate nearly doubled to 10.9%. In '10, it went from 3.8% with Orton to 6.8% with Tebow.

Sack % is the fourth column from right-to-left:

Orton: http://www.pro-football-reference.co...O/OrtoKy00.htm

Tebow: http://www.pro-football-reference.co...T/TeboTi00.htm

In 2010, with Orton the primary QB, we had the lowest sack % in the league.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat...ate=2011-02-07

The 5.5% rate from 2011 projected over the season would have been good for 6th lowest in the league.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/sack-pct

Our OL is a lot better in pass protection when Tebow isn't the QB. And we all know Orton has little-to-no pocket awareness.

You sir, must stop posting logic and facts. We suck. Beavis told us.

BroncoInferno
03-23-2012, 12:06 PM
Had to fix a couple of those links, but they are good now.

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 12:07 PM
Fine. you're right. I'm wrong. Manning sucks, Tebow rules, Broncos to be 0-16 due to ****ty o-line and terrible qb play.

See that's the strawman argument you have in your head in order to avoid the real issue. That's fine if you want to be cute. But don't get all upset when other people return fire with the same style of debate.

jhns
03-23-2012, 12:10 PM
lets see TT got sacked 33 times in 11 games, KO got sacked 9 times in 5 games. these are facts,but then again facts may not be your strong suit.

Cutler was sacked 11 times in 16 games here. 30 sacks a season(Ortons pace), isn't good...

Manning has never taken 30 sacks in a season...

You are an idiot.

BroncoInferno
03-23-2012, 12:13 PM
Some facts for you and Beavis (I posted these numbers in another thread):

The sack rate last season with Orton with 5.5%. With Tebow, the sack rate nearly doubled to 10.9%. In '10, it went from 3.8% with Orton to 6.8% with Tebow.

Sack % is the fourth column from right-to-left:

Orton: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OrtoKy00.htm

Tebow: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TeboTi00.htm

In 2010, with Orton the primary QB, we had the lowest sack % in the league.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/sack-pct?date=2011-02-07

The 5.5% rate from 2011 projected over the season would have been good for 6th lowest in the league.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/sack-pct

Our OL is a lot better in pass protection when Tebow isn't the QB. And we all know Orton has little-to-no pocket awareness.

Given these numbers, I'm not too worried about our pass protection. My concern is the run blocking. I think this is where our OL really struggles. Tebow definitely opened up the run game and masked some OL deficiencies in that regard.

Stagger Lee
03-23-2012, 12:14 PM
See that's the strawman argument you have in your head in order to avoid the real issue. That's fine if you want to be cute. But don't get all upset when other people return fire with the same style of debate.

Upset? No. You just wear me out by saying the same **** over and over and over and over again.

Stagger Lee
03-23-2012, 12:15 PM
Looks like Tamme just signed with Denver. We can't get any free agents.

Gort
03-23-2012, 12:18 PM
Cutler was sacked 11 times in 16 games here. 30 sacks a season(Ortons pace), isn't good...

Manning has taken 30 sacks only once in his career...

You are an idiot.

can you go 24 hours without calling people idiots, morons, or McD fans?

Cass
03-23-2012, 12:19 PM
The value of a good center can't be underestimated with the kind of offense Manning wants to run.

Yes, PM will be making a lot of presnap adjustments, line calls, audibles etc. We KNOW he can do that.

But none of that is going to work if the Center doesn't know what he's talking about, can't direct the rest of the OL like Saturday used to do all the time at the line of scrimmage.

I have minimal confidence that Walton can handle the cerebral part of that and why should he? He's clearly struggled with a scaled down, minimized playbook last season, what makes anyone think he'll suddenly lock down the kind of complex adjustments, audibles and play calls that are routine in a high octane passing offense?

We should definitely bring in Dan Koppen for a look. He's an intelligent center who worked a pass first offense and has extensive playoff experience with the Pats.

He's been replaced by a younger Center and still wants to play on and can be had for cheap since the other centers have already been signed.

Just ****ing do it.

I hope your post doesn't get lost in the midst of all the sniping back and forth since it's really useful and explains quite a bit.

Is it safe to assume that if Manning really wanted Saturday to be a Bronco, the FO would have been working overtime to get him? The 49ers and Titans already had established players at C, so it is likely that Manning wouldn't have had Saturday with him if he had chosen either of those teams. Yet he still considered playing for them. From his statements at the press conference, I got the sense that Manning wouldn't mind having a couple of old teammates come in but it wouldn't be a huge issue if it didn't happen. Besides, I saw a number of posts complaining about the Broncos becoming Colts-West so I would think some people would be happy that Saturday isn't coming.

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 12:19 PM
Some facts for you and Beavis (I posted these numbers in another thread):

The sack rate last season with Orton with 5.5%. With Tebow, the sack rate nearly doubled to 10.9%. In '10, it went from 3.8% with Orton to 6.8% with Tebow.

Sack % is the fourth column from right-to-left:

Orton: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OrtoKy00.htm

Tebow: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TeboTi00.htm

In 2010, with Orton the primary QB, we had the lowest sack % in the league.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/sack-pct?date=2011-02-07

The 5.5% rate from 2011 projected over the season would have been good for 6th lowest in the league.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/sack-pct

Our OL is a lot better in pass protection when Tebow isn't the QB. And we all know Orton has little-to-no pocket awareness.

First, we can throw 2011 out. KO didn't have enough games in to be considered a valid measuring stick. Especially if you look at how KO did during the common games like SD and OAK.

And beyond that (and the fact that I still can't get some of your links to work), you're full of **** when you say KO had the lowest sack % in the league in 2010.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OrtoKy00.htm

Shows it as 6.4%

Which according to this

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2010/passing.htm

Was 13th worst in the league.

Gort
03-23-2012, 12:22 PM
Given these numbers, I'm not too worried about our pass protection. My concern is the run blocking. I think this is where our OL really struggles. Tebow definitely opened up the run game and masked some OL deficiencies in that regard.

this is the exact opposite of what we saw and all of the analysis i heard during the season about the OL.

almost everybody said they were young and inexperienced and struggled with pass blocking (e.g., missing assignments). it was the switch to the running game that allowed them to be aggressive and less cerebral and this is why they got much better at pushing around the defense. once they had to go back to pass blocking on nearly every down, they were once again not very good. watch the OL during that NE playoff game. they were awful. NE DL were in the backfield in a matter of milliseconds on almost every play.

PS - here's a former lineman who just re-watched some of last season's games giving his take on our OL.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2012/word-muth-scouting-broncos

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 12:22 PM
Upset? No. You just wear me out by saying the same **** over and over and over and over again.

Amazing... criticizing Broncos went from invigorating to annoying the second we signed Peyton Manning.

Behold, he makes all things new!

jhns
03-23-2012, 12:23 PM
can you go 24 hours without calling people idiots, morons, or McD fans?

On the mane? Nope.

I will stop calling people idiots when they stop saying idiotic things. I will stop calling them McFans(which i haven't needed to lately) when they stop defending that POS. Seems fair to me.

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 12:25 PM
this is the exact opposite of what we saw and all of the analysis i heard during the season about the OL.

almost everybody said they were young and inexperienced and struggled with pass blocking (e.g., missing assignments). it was the switch to the running game that allowed them to be aggressive and less cerebral and this is why they got much better at pushing around the defense. once they had to go back to pass blocking on nearly every down, they were once again not very good. watch the OL during that NE playoff game. they were awful. NE DL were in the backfield in a matter of milliseconds on almost every play.

It's the exact opposite because it's bull****. He either can't read what he posted or he's blowing smoke.

Stagger Lee
03-23-2012, 12:25 PM
Amazing... criticizing Broncos went from invigorating to annoying the second we signed Peyton Manning.

Behold, he makes all things new!

You win.

peacepipe
03-23-2012, 12:30 PM
can you go 24 hours without calling people idiots, morons, or McD fans?the problem jhns has is he's too stupid to understand any of the facts put in front of him so his only retort is namecalling.

BroncoInferno
03-23-2012, 12:30 PM
First, we can throw 2011 out. KO didn't have enough games in to be considered a valid measuring stick. Especially if you look at how KO did during the common games like SD and OAK.

And beyond that (and the fact that I still can't get some of your links to work), you're full of **** when you say KO had the lowest sack % in the league in 2010.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OrtoKy00.htm

Shows it as 6.4%

Which according to this

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2010/passing.htm

Was 13th worst in the league.

I said the Broncos AS A TEAM had the lowest sack % in the league in 2010, and they did:

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/sack-pct?date=2011-02-07

They were also doing OK in 2011 before Tebow became the starter and nearly doubled the sack % to 10.9% (a massive number, by the way) from 5.5% with Orton.

orangeatheist
03-23-2012, 12:32 PM
Fine. you're right. I'm wrong. Manning sucks, Tebow rules, Broncos to be 0-16 due to ****ty o-line and terrible qb play.

You know, I like your approach. Just agree with everything these jugheads say, pat them on the head, stick a sucker in their mouth, and then go on with your conversation at the adult's table.

jhns
03-23-2012, 12:34 PM
the problem jhns has is he's too stupid to understand any of the facts put in front of him so his only retort is namecalling.

I gave facts that show you are an idiot. The problem with you is that you are too stupid to figure out how wrong you are.

Go ahead and show the facts that prove giving up 30 sacks a season is a good thing.

BroncoInferno
03-23-2012, 12:37 PM
this is the exact opposite of what we saw and all of the analysis i heard during the season about the OL.

almost everybody said they were young and inexperienced and struggled with pass blocking (e.g., missing assignments). it was the switch to the running game that allowed them to be aggressive and less cerebral and this is why they got much better at pushing around the defense. once they had to go back to pass blocking on nearly every down, they were once again not very good. watch the OL during that NE playoff game. they were awful. NE DL were in the backfield in a matter of milliseconds on almost every play.

PS - here's a former lineman who just re-watched some of last season's games giving his take on our OL.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2012/word-muth-scouting-broncos

Well, all I know is our run game sucked from 2010 until Tebow got into the lineup. And as the stats I posted earlier demonstrate (links should be fixed, by the way), the pass protection was among the leagues best during that stretch, then all of a sudden turned poor when Tebow took over.

CEH
03-23-2012, 12:38 PM
Fine. you're right. I'm wrong. Manning sucks, Tebow rules, Broncos to be 0-16 due to ****ty o-line and terrible qb play.

Don't sweat it. Your take is right on. The Broncos Oline is one of the better lines in the league and will only get better. I'd don't see Denver out there in FA signing Oline help. Thats because they have a great line in the making and maybe draft a stud guard to fortify the line

jhns
03-23-2012, 12:39 PM
Well, all I know is our run game sucked from 2010 until Tebow got into the lineup. And as the stats I posted earlier demonstrate (links should be fixed, by the way), the pass protection was among the leagues best during that stretch, then all of a sudden turned poor when Tebow took over.

If Orton was the 13th worst, and the team was the best, how exactly does that prove Tebow was the problem?

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 12:40 PM
I said the Broncos AS A TEAM had the lowest sack % in the league in 2010, and they did:

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/sack-pct?date=2011-02-07

They were also doing OK in 2011 before Tebow became the starter and nearly doubled the sack % to 10.9% (a massive number, by the way) from 5.5% with Orton.

Yeah, that link is for DEFENSIVE SACK %. That means our defense didn't sack **** in 2010. Which I could've told you :)

Were you the guy telling me how great the Manning Colts' rushing game was and it turned out you were looking at the Colts' defensive numbers?

KO's 2010 Broncos were 13th worst. Not best. Read your own links to pro football reference.

fontaine
03-23-2012, 12:42 PM
I hope your post doesn't get lost in the midst of all the sniping back and forth since it's really useful and explains quite a bit.

Is it safe to assume that if Manning really wanted Saturday to be a Bronco, the FO would have been working overtime to get him? The 49ers and Titans already had established players at C, so it is likely that Manning wouldn't have had Saturday with him if he had chosen either of those teams. Yet he still considered playing for them. From his statements at the press conference, I got the sense that Manning wouldn't mind having a couple of old teammates come in but it wouldn't be a huge issue if it didn't happen. Besides, I saw a number of posts complaining about the Broncos becoming Colts-West so I would think some people would be happy that Saturday isn't coming.

I think the Broncos/Manning did want Saturday but for whatever reasons he didn't get signed.

No big deal, but that leaves us with Walton as an option at center which isn't viable in my opinion. Not for pass protection neither for a complex passing offense.

I do think they will sign someone like Koppen. It just doesn't make any sense to have that much at stake at the QB position and then hinge it on a guy who's never really performed at Center in Walton.

BroncoInferno
03-23-2012, 12:47 PM
Yeah, that link is for DEFENSIVE SACK %. That means our defense didn't sack **** in 2010. Which I could've told you :)

Were you the guy telling me how great the Manning Colts' rushing game was and it turned out you were looking at the Colts' defensive numbers?

KO's 2010 Broncos were 13th worst. Not best. Read your own links to pro football reference.

Mea culpa. You are right about the team links I posted. However, the sack % DID double last season from 5.5% with Orton to 10.9% with Tebow. And in 2010 it increased from 3.8% with Orton to 6.8% when Tebow played (look at the links for their individual stats). So, the point is a QB who gets rid of the ball quicker can make the OL look a bit better. I think we can agree that Manning is worlds better at that than Orton, right? Better pocket-awareness, too?

And, no, I realize Indy's run game has been generally crappy since James left.

JLesSPE
03-23-2012, 12:51 PM
If Orton was the 13th worst, and the team was the best, how exactly does that prove Tebow was the problem?

All I know from watching the games is TT held on to the ball too long, or would just flat out run around behind the line of scrimmage waiting for his primary receiver to get WIDE open, and that is conducive to high sack totals. Denver's OL is average but young. That's all there is to it.

Gort
03-23-2012, 12:51 PM
Mea culpa. You are right about the team links I posted. However, the sack % DID double last season from 5.5% with Orton to 10.9% with Tebow. And in 2010 it increased from 3.8% with Orton to 6.8% when Tebow played (look at the links for their individual stats). So, the point is a QB who gets rid of the ball quicker can make the OL look a bit better. I think we can agree that Manning is worlds better at that than Orton, right? Better pocket-awareness, too?

keeping in mind the old saying there there are 3 kinds of lies... lies, damned lies, and statistics, i still think you've got it backwards. the DEN OL was one of the worst at pass blocking, with or without Tebow. Orton avoided sacks by throwing INTs or throwing the ball out of bounds. Tebow avoided INTs by holding onto the ball and taking a sack. i know that's a simplification, but 2 vastly different styles of play between the Orton and Tebow offenses.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

http://wp.advancednflstats.com/teamOL.php

DBroncos4life
03-23-2012, 12:51 PM
Broncos signed a Colt? That can't be!!!!

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 12:52 PM
And in 2010 it increased from 3.8% with Orton to 6.8% when Tebow playe

Bull****. As I already showed, in 2010, KO's sack percentage was 6.4%... 13th worst in the league. Tebow's was 6.8%, which would've been 11th. Not exactly night and day. But a dumb comparison anyway, since it was only 3 games.

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 12:55 PM
All I know from watching the games is TT held on to the ball too long, or would just flat out run around behind the line of scrimmage waiting for his primary receiver to get WIDE open, and that is conducive to high sack totals. Denver's OL is average but young. That's all there is to it.

Yeah, the OL is young give them a break. Because Tebow should've played like a polished vet back there.

jhns
03-23-2012, 12:56 PM
Some facts for you and Beavis (I posted these numbers in another thread):

The sack rate last season with Orton with 5.5%. With Tebow, the sack rate nearly doubled to 10.9%. In '10, it went from 3.8% with Orton to 6.8% with Tebow.

Sack % is the fourth column from right-to-left:

Orton: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OrtoKy00.htm

Tebow: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TeboTi00.htm

In 2010, with Orton the primary QB, we had the lowest sack % in the league.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/sack-pct?date=2011-02-07

The 5.5% rate from 2011 projected over the season would have been good for 6th lowest in the league.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/sack-pct

Our OL is a lot better in pass protection when Tebow isn't the QB. And we all know Orton has little-to-no pocket awareness.

What are you even digging up here? This teamrankings website is pretty terrible.

I just calculated the last four years sack percentages. They are: 9.7, 6.8, 6.09, 1.9

None of these match that lowest sack percentage number...

BroncoInferno
03-23-2012, 12:57 PM
keeping in mind the old saying there there are 3 kinds of lies... lies, damned lies, and statistics, i still think you've got it backwards. the DEN OL was one of the worst at pass blocking, with or without Tebow. Orton avoided sacks by throwing INTs or throwing the ball out of bounds. Tebow avoided INTs by holding onto the ball and taking a sack. i know that's a simplification, but 2 vastly different styles of play between the Orton and Tebow offenses.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

You are definitely right that you cannot just look a sack totals to get the full picture. But I question sites like Football Outsiders that claim they can quantify this stuff. Bottom line is I still say the OL pass blocks better than some are giving them credit for, and also that an elite passing QB like Manning can make an OL look better than it is because of their quick-decision making and pocket-awareness.

jhns
03-23-2012, 12:58 PM
All I know from watching the games is TT held on to the ball too long, or would just flat out run around behind the line of scrimmage waiting for his primary receiver to get WIDE open, and that is conducive to high sack totals. Denver's OL is average but young. That's all there is to it.

They also let guys run free at the QB quite a bit. There wrre multiple ends that just schooled Franklin. The problem was Tebow AND the line.

Beantown Bronco
03-23-2012, 12:59 PM
Orton avoided sacks by throwing INTs or throwing the ball out of bounds. Tebow avoided INTs by holding onto the ball and taking a sack. i know that's a simplification, but 2 vastly different styles of play between the Orton and Tebow offenses.

It's a shame Peyton Manning doesn't know how to avoid both INTs and sacks. Look.....we all know stats can be deceiving. Just look at Manning. He never had the #1 most talented OLine in the league, but he always kept his sack numbers low. He knows what he's doing back there and knows how to avoid taking hits.

We'll be more than fine with him back there.

DBroncos4life
03-23-2012, 12:59 PM
Yeah, the OL is young give them a break. Because Tebow should've played like a polished vet back there.

True he should of. Then maybe his ass wouldn't have been traded

jhns
03-23-2012, 01:02 PM
But I question sites like Football Outsiders that claim they can quantify this stuff.

You question this, but not a website that completely makes up their stats?

JLesSPE
03-23-2012, 01:02 PM
Yeah, the OL is young give them a break. Because Tebow should've played like a polished vet back there.

No its more like any OL in the league would give up more sacks with the QB playing that way.

Now separate point: Hey they're young, let them develop! Or you could take a different approach and just over pay for vets instead of developing your own talent...you know, whatever

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 01:06 PM
It's a shame Peyton Manning doesn't know how to avoid both INTs and sacks. Look.....we all know stats can be deceiving. Just look at Manning. He never had the #1 most talented OLine in the league, but he always kept his sack numbers low. He knows what he's doing back there and knows how to avoid taking hits.

We'll be more than fine with him back there.

There's a reality somewhere between the two though. Manning's better at avoiding sacks (although we should be more concerned honestly with how many hits he takes) But he also usually had better o-lines in Indy than he will here (unless we pull a major upgrade out of our asses at this point)

And the Indy guys were familiar with his system, which I think is important. This O-Line isn't going to look like Indy's overnight, even if the talent level were the same.

KO was sacked 40 times in 2010... bottom 10 in the league. Even if PM can improve that to 25-30, that's a huge risk, injury-wise. And if you're relying on Manning getting rid of it more than you're relying on good protection, he'll get hit a lot just trying to get rid of the ball.

At the end of the day, leaving Peyton Manning behind this line is like leaving your vintage Ferrari in South Central with the windows rolled down and the keys in the ignition.

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 01:08 PM
True he should of. Then maybe his ass wouldn't have been traded

Wow. Your bull**** stats get completely blown out of the water and this is the best you can do.

Where's Stagger at wondering why it is we can't just all get along. :D

broncswin
03-23-2012, 01:08 PM
I said the Broncos AS A TEAM had the lowest sack % in the league in 2010, and they did:

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/sack-pct?date=2011-02-07

They were also doing OK in 2011 before Tebow became the starter and nearly doubled the sack % to 10.9% (a massive number, by the way) from 5.5% with Orton.

One thing Orton did well was not get sacked in the red zone...know why?? Because the dumb Fook threw the f-ing ball out of the back of the endzone the second he dropped back ROFL!ROFL!

Though, I do agree Teebs reads were slower than a toothless hooker eating corn on the cob

orangeatheist
03-23-2012, 01:09 PM
KO was sacked 40 times in 2010...

There's a reason he earned the nickname "Pocket Sloth."

But, you're right, you're right. You're always right.

Here's your sucker. Good boy.

DBroncos4life
03-23-2012, 01:10 PM
Wow. Your bull**** stats get completely blown out of the water and this is the best you can do.

Where's Stagger at wondering why it is we can't just all get along. :D

I think it goes back to what I first said. If you can't see the difference between Manning and Tebow/Orton in the pocket please stop posting.

JLesSPE
03-23-2012, 01:11 PM
There's a reality somewhere between the two though. Manning's better at avoiding sacks (although we should be more concerned honestly with how many hits he takes) But he also usually had better o-lines in Indy than he will here (unless we pull a major upgrade out of our asses at this point)

And the Indy guys were familiar with his system, which I think is important. This O-Line isn't going to look like Indy's overnight, even if the talent level were the same.

KO was sacked 40 times in 2010... bottom 10 in the league. Even if PM can improve that to 25-30, that's a huge risk, injury-wise. And if you're relying on Manning getting rid of it more than you're relying on good protection, he'll get hit a lot just trying to get rid of the ball.

At the end of the day, leaving Peyton Manning behind this line is like leaving your vintage Ferrari in South Central with the windows rolled down and the keys in the ignition.

Something else to keep in mind though is Indy never had the running game Denver does. That in itself changes the way defenses attack. There is no way anyone can sit here and predict accurately exactly how this offense is going to perform. This is going to be both Peyton and Fox' most balanced offense of their collective careers. Who the hell knows whats going to happen?

winstoncup bronco
03-23-2012, 01:13 PM
Something else to keep in mind though is Indy never had the running game Denver does. That in itself changes the way defenses attack. There is no way anyone can sit here and predict accurately exactly how this offense is going to perform. This is going to be both Peyton and Fox' most balanced offense of their collective careers. Who the hell knows whats going to happen?

Edgerrin James says no way.

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 01:14 PM
Something else to keep in mind though is Indy never had the running game Denver does. That in itself changes the way defenses attack. There is no way anyone can sit here and predict accurately exactly how this offense is going to perform. This is going to be both Peyton and Fox' most balanced offense of their collective careers. Who the hell knows whats going to happen?

Running game was bottom 10 in 2010, and dead last in the league in the first 4 games this year.

Tebow made the running game. Peyton won't have one.

We've been over that one a time or two :)

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 01:15 PM
I think it goes back to what I first said. If you can't see the difference between Manning and Tebow/Orton in the pocket please stop posting.

Was that before or after you said the Broncos never let Orton get sacked in 2010?

Heyneck
03-23-2012, 01:15 PM
lets see TT got sacked 33 times in 11 games, KO got sacked 9 times in 5 games. these are facts,but then again facts may not be your strong suit.

that facts are that Tim got flushed outside the pocket to many times. He also had the ability to extend the plays. With Orton... he would either throw it away or got phantom sacked. Yes Tim held on to the ball way too long... but he extended plays until the very end because his OL sucked at pass protection.
Deal with it... Peyton could make this OL better... but not to the point were talent doesn't need to count... just because he is Peyton.

One of the reasons I didn't want us to pursue him was because it's going to be difficult for this OL to keep him clean like he was used to in Indy.

broncosteven
03-23-2012, 01:15 PM
How did this get to 8 pages already and the Thanks Tebow thread limp to 4?

Beantown Bronco
03-23-2012, 01:16 PM
KO was sacked 40 times in 2010

I think you mean 34

Heyneck
03-23-2012, 01:17 PM
can you go 24 hours without calling people idiots, morons, or McD fans?

not possible for Jhns....

Gort
03-23-2012, 01:17 PM
Something else to keep in mind though is Indy never had the running game Denver does. That in itself changes the way defenses attack. There is no way anyone can sit here and predict accurately exactly how this offense is going to perform. This is going to be both Peyton and Fox' most balanced offense of their collective careers. Who the hell knows whats going to happen?

i think our good running game was a product of the unique Tebow offense. as we go back to a traditional pro-style offense with a largely immobile QB, i expect our running game to go back into the crapper. remember when we couldn't score on 4 tries with 1st and goal at the 2 against TEN last year? that's what i expect to see again this year (in terms of our running game) unless we find a real stud power running back. of course, Manning probably throws a TD pass on 1st down in that same situation, instead of Orton throwing in incompletion followed by 3 straight MacGahee runs.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=310925010&period=4

DBroncos4life
03-23-2012, 01:18 PM
Was that before or after you said the Broncos never let Orton get sacked in 2010?

I never said that lol. Another 2011 poster to iggy list.

JLesSPE
03-23-2012, 01:20 PM
Edgerrin James says no way.

Haha, forgot about that dude. One of my favorite characters...dreds and gold teeth.

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 01:20 PM
I never said that lol. Another 2011 poster to iggy list.

"If you can't throw bull**** stats by 'em... ignore em."

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 01:22 PM
I think you mean 34

Yeah, 40 was probably a team number.

Looked it up... you're right...34 for KO in 13 games, 6 for TT in 3.

If KO had played out, maybe it would've been 39 sacks instead of 40 on the year.

JLesSPE
03-23-2012, 01:28 PM
Running game was bottom 10 in 2010, and dead last in the league in the first 4 games this year.

Tebow made the running game. Peyton won't have one.

We've been over that one a time or two :)

Gotcha, without TT we have no chance at running the ball. I appreciate the education. And with the line completely defunct of talent there's no way PM will stay upright or healthy. Man this is gonna suck! At least we'll have the #1 pick next year right?

bendog
03-23-2012, 01:31 PM
Teams will put 8 on the line against melonhead. of course they will.

jhns
03-23-2012, 01:36 PM
not possible for Jhns....

If it bothers you, I would be willing to make a deal/bet with you and whoisjohngalt. I.won't call anyone a moron, idiot, or McFan this weekend, if you guys don't post for a week after it. Deal?

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 01:39 PM
Teams will put 8 on the line against melonhead. of course they will.

Did they against KO? And how come Peyton Manning never had much of a running game?

Should've been like taking Candy from a baby, since I'm sure they were playing Dime against PM his whole career.

jerseyguy4
03-23-2012, 01:44 PM
And how come Peyton Manning never had much of a running game?

Should've been like taking Candy from a baby, since I'm sure they were playing Dime against PM his whole career.
The running game was decent a couple+ years. But in general, the Colts O-line was just a bad run blocking unit.

DBroncos4life
03-23-2012, 01:45 PM
"If you can't throw bull**** stats by 'em... ignore em."

Show me my quote you ****ing piece of ****

Heyneck
03-23-2012, 01:47 PM
If it bothers you, I would be willing to make a deal/bet with you and whoisjohngalt. I.won't call anyone a moron, idiot, or McFan this weekend, if you guys don't post for a week after it. Deal?

Hey... I don't care whatever you say... I was just pointing out, that that's not gonna happen with you. Chill!

jhns
03-23-2012, 01:50 PM
Hey... I don't care whatever you say... I was just pointing out, that that's not gonna happen with you. Chill!

I am chill. I just wanted to see if you would take a BS deal.

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 01:51 PM
The running game was decent a couple+ years. But in general, the Colts O-line was just a bad run blocking unit.

Yeah, since shortly after Edge left though, it's never been more than mediocre. Mostly because they went the way of the Patriots and decided to light it up through the air. Which I believe is one of the reasons the Pats haven't won the big one since.

cutthemdown
03-23-2012, 01:51 PM
that facts are that Tim got flushed outside the pocket to many times. He also had the ability to extend the plays. With Orton... he would either throw it away or got phantom sacked. Yes Tim held on to the ball way too long... but he extended plays until the very end because his OL sucked at pass protection.
Deal with it... Peyton could make this OL better... but not to the point were talent doesn't need to count... just because he is Peyton.

One of the reasons I didn't want us to pursue him was because it's going to be difficult for this OL to keep him clean like he was used to in Indy.

Most of Tebows sack problems were because he holds the ball too long. Manning won't get sacked but maybe 10-15 times this yr.

cutthemdown
03-23-2012, 01:53 PM
How any Bronco fan can say I wish we had not signed Manning is beyond me. I mean cmon how stupid can you be?

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 01:56 PM
Show me my quote you ****ing piece of ****

LOL

Might want to say WTF you're talking about first.

You said the Broncos had the lowest sack % in the league in 2010. In reality they were probably 20th.

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 01:57 PM
How any Bronco fan can say I wish we had not signed Manning is beyond me. I mean cmon how stupid can you be?

As stupid as the 2008 Packers. This isn't that hard.

Heyneck
03-23-2012, 02:01 PM
Most of Tebows sack problems were because he holds the ball too long. Manning won't get sacked but maybe 10-15 times this yr.

Mostly agree... but also because he tried to give the offense the most possible time develop the play or make something out of nothing. Orton would just throw it away. A lot.

I don't get why people kid themselves. Yes we have an AWESOME QB. But our C and LG SUCK!!! We need a huge upgrade at C. Walton will get Peyton killed.

Drunken.Broncoholic
03-23-2012, 02:02 PM
LOL

Might want to say WTF you're talking about first.

You said the Broncos had the lowest sack % in the league in 2010. In reality they were probably 20th.

Maybe he was thinking 2008

BroncoInferno
03-23-2012, 02:04 PM
LOL

Might want to say WTF you're talking about first.

You said the Broncos had the lowest sack % in the league in 2010. In reality they were probably 20th.

That was me who made that error. You're getting your posters mixed up :)

jhns
03-23-2012, 02:04 PM
Maybe he was thinking 2008

No. They were just using a website with made up numbers.

bendog
03-23-2012, 02:09 PM
Well, I am glad this thread wasn't hijacked. Go tebowites.

I can see how Saturday fits with Manning. They have synergy (yes I used it) in Manning's audibles and the line calls. But the guy was never much physically, and he's ancient. but Wells gets almost 5 mil a year for 5 years and 13 mil guaranteed, so the Pack had to do something.

DBroncos4life
03-23-2012, 02:17 PM
LOL

Might want to say WTF you're talking about first.

You said the Broncos had the lowest sack % in the league in 2010. In reality they were probably 20th.

You god damn ****ing retard I never said that

DBroncos4life
03-23-2012, 02:17 PM
That was me who made that error. You're getting your posters mixed up :)

What a ****ing dumbass. Him not you!

cutthemdown
03-23-2012, 02:18 PM
Mostly agree... but also because he tried to give the offense the most possible time develop the play or make something out of nothing. Orton would just throw it away. A lot.

I don't get why people kid themselves. Yes we have an AWESOME QB. But our C and LG SUCK!!! We need a huge upgrade at C. Walton will get Peyton killed.

See i don't feel that way. I think Walton and Beadles decent for pass blocking but just get dominated in any short yardage situation where you have to get a push from the oline. So manning can forget about running it on 3rd and short.

cutthemdown
03-23-2012, 02:19 PM
Unless we get better upfront inside on the oline, and Kuper recovers, we could be screwed when it comes to really running the ball effectively in short yardage situations.

jhns
03-23-2012, 02:19 PM
What a ****ing dumbass. Him not you!

I thought you were putting him on ignore? You are quite the drama queen.

cutthemdown
03-23-2012, 02:20 PM
As stupid as the 2008 Packers. This isn't that hard.

So your saying Tebow is Rodgers? Tebow won't ever be a starting QB in the playoffs again. There I said it. Broncos had nothing at QB so grabbing Manning a no brainer.

jhns
03-23-2012, 02:22 PM
So your saying Tebow is Rodgers? Tebow won't ever be a starting QB in the playoffs again. There I said it. Broncos had nothing at QB so grabbing Manning a no brainer.

Saying the 4-14 team carried Tebow is just as dumb as saying Tebow is Rodgers...

houghtam
03-23-2012, 02:47 PM
It's a shame Peyton Manning doesn't know how to avoid both INTs and sacks. Look.....we all know stats can be deceiving. Just look at Manning. He never had the #1 most talented OLine in the league, but he always kept his sack numbers low. He knows what he's doing back there and knows how to avoid taking hits.

We'll be more than fine with him back there.

Tarik Glenn and Jeff Saturday made 8 Pro Bowls between the two of them. Ryan Diem is a 10 year vet of that system. Okay, they maybe didn't have the #1 talented line in the league, but come on, let's be realistic. They were consistently much, much better than our line.

baja
03-23-2012, 02:59 PM
This was a tough thread to read.

Question;

Do you think the ultra well prepared Peyton Manning would sign with the Broncos if he were not convinced the Broncos had a plan that would not get killed behind a weak line?

Gort
03-23-2012, 03:00 PM
This was a tough thread to read.

Question;

Do you think the ultra well prepared Peyton Manning would sign with the Broncos if he were not convinced the Broncos had a plan that would not get killed behind a weak line?

there are 96 million reasons why he might... ???

cutthemdown
03-23-2012, 03:00 PM
Saying the 4-14 team carried Tebow is just as dumb as saying Tebow is Rodgers...

I agree that Tebow playing over Orton made the difference in winning.

But in Indy Colts are 2-14 without Manning, and 11-5 with him.

In Denver we are 4-12 with Orton, and maybe 9 10 wins if Tebow played whole yr.

And that is with Tebow magic happening every yr. Really by the end of the yr teams were shutting Tebow down big time.

That offense he runs just can't work full time.

cutthemdown
03-23-2012, 03:01 PM
there are 96 million reasons why he might... ???

He wont make that if he gets killed lol. He has to last a full yr for guarantees to kick in. :)

baja
03-23-2012, 03:03 PM
:welcome:there are 96 million reasons why he might... ???

How much do you think good ole Bud was offering?

If was not about money only. Hell what do you think Manning makes with his commercials. Bet it's greater than his game checks

rbackfactory80
03-23-2012, 03:03 PM
So your saying Tebow is Rodgers? Tebow won't ever be a starting QB in the playoffs again. There I said it. Broncos had nothing at QB so grabbing Manning a no brainer.



Wow

Hold on, let me write that down...

Mediator12
03-23-2012, 03:03 PM
Tarik Glenn and Jeff Saturday made 8 Pro Bowls between the two of them. Ryan Diem is a 10 year vet of that system. Okay, they maybe didn't have the #1 talented line in the league, but come on, let's be realistic. They were consistently much, much better than our line.

NO. In, fact HELL NO! INDY's OL was never very talented, Peyton just learned to get rid of the ball in short quick throws unless he had Mx Protect PA going on.

Seriously, INDY's OL has Always been a ragtag group who Peyton protected with getting rid of the ball quickly. Never been good at Run blocking or pass protection. They were just guys. Especially since Glenn left and he was really only an Average LT.

RaiderH8r
03-23-2012, 03:05 PM
May Saturday be cursed with chronic butt sweat, may Rogers mope about it, and may it cause many a mishandled snap.

Gort
03-23-2012, 03:05 PM
He wont make that if he gets killed lol. He has to last a full yr for guarantees to kick in. :)

yeah, but isn't about 60% of that number guaranteed once he lasts the 1st year?

i think Manning looked at Clady and Franklin at the tackle positions and decided he'd be ok. but Kuper might never be the same after his leg was snapped like a toothpick and Walton and Beadles are nothing to write home about. no matter how fast Manning releases the ball, i think he's going to get hit more behind this line than he did in Indy. a hit after the ball is thrown is just as effective as a sack if your QB has his head held in place with bubblegum and safety pins.

Gort
03-23-2012, 03:07 PM
:welcome:

How much do you think good ole Bud was offering?

If was not about money only. Hell what do you think Manning makes with his commercials. Bet it's greater than his game checks

so you're saying that Manning doesn't make Brady money... he makes Giselle money?

;)

baja
03-23-2012, 03:16 PM
I think Manning believes he can win Super Bowls with EFX and the Broncos and that is the reason he is here.

rbackfactory80
03-23-2012, 03:18 PM
I think Manning believes he can win Super Bowls with EFX and the Broncos and that is the reason he is here.

Of course he does--but so does every other QB starting in NFL in whatever situation they are in.

baja
03-23-2012, 03:21 PM
Of course he does--but so does every other QB starting in NFL in whatever situation they are in.

What I mean is this was the key factor when he chose the Broncos. He had options ya know.

Taco John
03-23-2012, 03:34 PM
I don't understand why anyone is disappointed about this. Yeah, the history they had together is something, but Saturday isn't amazing or anything. He's always been a "try hard" like Walton, only he's been at it a lot longer, and has managed to carve out a niche for himself in Indy.

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 03:35 PM
You god damn ****ing retard I never said that

Yeah, sorry, the way you jumped in I thought you were the other guy.

Mediator12
03-23-2012, 03:40 PM
I don't understand why anyone is disappointed about this. Yeah, the history they had together is something, but Saturday isn't amazing or anything. He's always been a "try hard" like Walton, only he's been at it a lot longer, and has managed to carve out a niche for himself in Indy.

They have always worked well together, and Saturday is damn reliable. They had one falling out on the sidelines, then next series, they PA bomb to Garcon for TD!

It would have been really nice to have the Guy making the line calls be on the same page, but in the end Saturday went to GB.

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 03:42 PM
So your saying Tebow is Rodgers? Tebow won't ever be a starting QB in the playoffs again. There I said it. Broncos had nothing at QB so grabbing Manning a no brainer.

We're hitting back again on that same universal divider. I think Tebow has a crazy amount of promise. Obviously they're not the same kind of quarterback, but I think an offense built for Tebow could be as spectacular as Green Bay's someday (remember, Rodgers been in the league quite a few years)

And Rodgers had plenty of doubters when he first started out, as we've gone over before.

BroncoBeavis
03-23-2012, 03:46 PM
This was a tough thread to read.

Question;

Do you think the ultra well prepared Peyton Manning would sign with the Broncos if he were not convinced the Broncos had a plan that would not get killed behind a weak line?

Let's not pretend like every team in the league was knocking down Peyton's door and telling him money was no object.

Do you think the Bengals thought Andy Dalton was a better QB than Peyton Manning?

Jay3
03-23-2012, 07:11 PM
Some footage of Walton and Beadles having practice workouts:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk148/anthony33333/fainting-goats.gif

Slightly Soiled
03-23-2012, 07:46 PM
[QUOTE=Garcia Bronco;3536733)


we'll beat teams by 100 points.[/QUOTE]

Ahh the immortal Wade Phillips.

TonyR
03-23-2012, 08:56 PM
yeah, but isn't about 60% of that number guaranteed once he lasts the 1st year?

Since you asked...

...there’s a limited out for the 2014 base salary, for one specific reason. If, during the 2013 season, Manning suffers another injury to his neck, the Broncos will be off the hook for the $20 million in 2014...

...The Broncos have the unilateral right to drop Manning before the end of the 2012, 2014, or 2015 league year and avoid the remaining $78 million, $38 million, or $19 million, respectively. And if Manning suffers another neck injury during the 2013 season, the deal can be capped at two years and $38 million.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/22/inside-the-peyton-manning-contract/

broncocalijohn
03-23-2012, 10:03 PM
I wonder how important the center's line calls are to the offense and how complicated it is? You would think if it were absolutely essential, they would have made him an offer he couldnt refuse.

LOL! That is how you view getting a center or not? Of course Center is important. He is one of 5 or 6 protecting our 20 million dollar investment. He also helps create holes for our running backs.

broncocalijohn
03-23-2012, 10:07 PM
Of course he does--but so does every other QB starting in NFL in whatever situation they are in.

While their egos would say this is true, once they are free agents, sometimes it is whoever will take them, where will they excel and pad their stats or who has the most money for them to offer.

TomServo
03-24-2012, 04:02 AM
i hope elway told p manning that his way hasnt really paid off has it? 14 years and only two SBs and only one win to show for it. one win. all those high draft picks es on offense. i hope elway impresses on manning that a good D will help him win a SB way more than a bunch of reggie waynes dallas clarks, joseph addais.(sp)

even in this day and age. who had the better D the last SB? Giants or Pats? and who won?

KevinJames
03-24-2012, 05:01 AM
I think I would like to keep the OL just how it is started all year and thats a good thing for OL

LT Clady LG Beadles C Walton RG Kuper RT Franklin

I would be cool with it even if you wanna flip Franklin and Beadles around. Competition won't be a bad thing either I don't see the starting lineup on OL changing unless Ryan Harris is magically a great RT again like he was in the Cutler days.

People really throw our OL under the bus a lot but in all fairness they didn't have a pocket QB behind center, Tim held the ball a lot longer than most QBs especially Peyton. Colts OL was never all that great.

JD Walton is a smart kid he will be fine, hes also someone that always gets praise from on front office and coaching staff so he must be doing something right. Probably a big reason why Saturday didn't come join his former teammate Fox probably told him hes going to have to compete with JD, and also they probably offered him less money for that same reason.

Beantown Bronco
03-24-2012, 05:07 AM
Some footage of Walton and Beadles having practice workouts:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk148/anthony33333/fainting-goats.gif

That looks more like your average European soccer practice....

KevinJames
03-24-2012, 05:11 AM
I remember how guys were killing Chris Meyers when he was with calling him horrible and stuff the same way or even worse than they do JD Walton.

and now Chris Meyers is the best zone blocking center in the NFL......

g6matty
03-24-2012, 08:15 AM
Adam Schefter ‏ @AdamSchefter Close
Jeff Saturday's two-year deal in Green Bay is worth $7.75 million, including $4 million this season.



ohhhhh **** thats a lot of money for his old ass. im glad we didnt over pay him

pricejj
03-24-2012, 10:14 AM
Adam Schefter ‏ @AdamSchefter Close
Jeff Saturday's two-year deal in Green Bay is worth $7.75 million, including $4 million this season.



ohhhhh **** thats a lot of money for his old ass. im glad we didnt over pay him

Dude, he made like $4.5M last year including signing bonus...I can't believe the Broncos wouldn't at least give him $4M per year.

barryr
03-24-2012, 10:18 AM
I still believe Franklin moving to LG with a new RT, maybe Harris, would make the OL better, especially inside. More depth here is obviously needed at least.

baja
03-24-2012, 10:40 AM
Given that he canceled his visit here without even knowing what we were willing to pay him says he wanted to play for GB. We are left to speculate as to why.

ozomulsion
03-24-2012, 01:17 PM
I come here. I get stupider. I leave again.

BroncoBeavis
03-24-2012, 04:08 PM
Dude, he made like $4.5M last year including signing bonus...I can't believe the Broncos wouldn't at least give him $4M per year.

Some were led to believe that the pleasure of playing with Manning would cause everyone to sign for league minimum.