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View Full Version : Bunkley to Saints


MABroncoFan
03-21-2012, 12:07 PM
1023ESPN‏@1023ESPNReply

Former #Broncos DT Broderick Bunkley signed with Saints

DenverBrit
03-21-2012, 12:10 PM
Shiat!

Ronnie Tsunami
03-21-2012, 12:10 PM
idiot...

go_broncos
03-21-2012, 12:11 PM
Bad

oubronco
03-21-2012, 12:11 PM
WTF? is he smoking

BroncoInferno
03-21-2012, 12:12 PM
Damn it. We MUST draft DT in the 1st round now. There's simply no alternative. And unfortunately DTs typically don't make a big impact as rookies.

MVP-06
03-21-2012, 12:12 PM
did he not know about the suspension? What an idiot

bfoflcommish
03-21-2012, 12:12 PM
way too much $ for him

MABroncoFan
03-21-2012, 12:13 PM
I wonder what the 1st round pick will be going for now? :)

What's left at DT - Warren (IR), Vickerson (IR), Unrein, McBean (suspended), Jarmon, Sealver Siliga.

ScottXray
03-21-2012, 12:13 PM
Crap....what our run defense is now.
Losing Bunkley HurtS!

Pony Boy
03-21-2012, 12:13 PM
Didn't anyone tell him there's no bounty money there anymore?

Rabb
03-21-2012, 12:13 PM
way too much $ for him

yes, exactly...and people can blame the FO all they want here but it was his choice

SonOfLe-loLang
03-21-2012, 12:13 PM
Thats too much coin

TheReverend
03-21-2012, 12:13 PM
DEVON DEVON DEVON DEVON DEVON DEVON

Tombstone RJ
03-21-2012, 12:13 PM
bummer...

UberBroncoMan
03-21-2012, 12:14 PM
Joe Mays is worth $4 a year but Bunkley isn't worth $5.

OK!

g6matty
03-21-2012, 12:14 PM
obviously doesnt care much about winning he just wanted a payday. with peyton manning here now why on earth wouldnt u wanna stay

BroncosMT
03-21-2012, 12:14 PM
Any other DTs out there that are decent??

TheReverend
03-21-2012, 12:15 PM
Joe Mays is worth $4 a year but Bunkley isn't worth $5.

OK!

^ that

And Goodman is about 5 mill himself...

Rohirrim
03-21-2012, 12:15 PM
With what just happened to that team?

Gawd, what a dumbass.

ColoradoDarin
03-21-2012, 12:15 PM
DEVON DEVON DEVON DEVON DEVON DEVON

THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS!

Taco John
03-21-2012, 12:16 PM
Joe Mays is worth $4 a year but Bunkley isn't worth $5.

OK!

Got to admit, this is a good point. That Joe Mays contract has me scratching my head. It must be backloaded or something.

bfoflcommish
03-21-2012, 12:17 PM
Joe Mays is worth $4 a year but Bunkley isn't worth $5.

OK!

Mays isnt, they overpaid there

MABroncoFan
03-21-2012, 12:17 PM
Any other DTs out there that are decent??

Okoye, Trevor Laws

Taco John
03-21-2012, 12:17 PM
The upside of this is that DT just became even more of a priority than it was before. One way or another, we're going to be drafting one, maybe even two.

Astrass
03-21-2012, 12:18 PM
He's what we call a "Bright Star". I have faith that Del Rio and Fox will take care of the D-line. Jacksonville always had a monster line! JDR knows how to pick 'em.

BroncoInferno
03-21-2012, 12:18 PM
Joe Mays is worth $4 a year but Bunkley isn't worth $5.

OK!

Yeah, I don't mind passing on Bunkley for $5 million a year in a vacuum, but it's hard to justify given the Mays contract.

Requiem
03-21-2012, 12:19 PM
Yeah, Joe Mays actually earned his pay check. He is a nice man, has a daughter and a cool dude.

Rohirrim
03-21-2012, 12:19 PM
The upside of this is that DT just became even more of a priority than it was before. One way or another, we're going to be drafting one, maybe even two.

I've been thinking that for years.

Requiem
03-21-2012, 12:19 PM
Got to admit, this is a good point. That Joe Mays contract has me scratching my head. It must be backloaded or something.

His four million dollar salary is guaranteed this year. This allows us to see if he can improve or can Irving develop. If he doesn't bring the heat, I bet he is cut next year. (This coming from a NDSU Bison alum and someone who has met Joe personally.)

Jetmeck
03-21-2012, 12:20 PM
league is out of whack......paying big dollars for mediocre talent.........this hurts all the teams

TheReverend
03-21-2012, 12:21 PM
Any other DTs out there that are decent??

I think Antonio Garay remains unsigned, I'd go for him.

I'd also bring Okoye in to rotate in at UT.

...and let's face it, we know Marcus Thomas will be back at another 1 year deal when he's sad panda over no one calling him with a boatload of cash.

Beantown Bronco
03-21-2012, 12:23 PM
The upside of this is that DT just became even more of a priority than it was before. One way or another, we're going to be drafting one, maybe even two.

How soon we forget.....last year at this time, we were arguably in WORSE shape at the DT position than we are today. Vickerson was literally the only DT we had on the roster with any game experience.

How many DTs did we draft last year?

UberBroncoMan
03-21-2012, 12:23 PM
league is out of whack......paying big dollars for mediocre talent.........this hurts all the teams

$5 mill a year for Bunk was worth it. Ty Warren is getting that kind of money.

"according to PFF, he was the third-rated defensive tackle in the NFL overall, and the best against the run. The Broncos had acquired Bunkley last summer in exchange for a conditional 2013 draft choice believed to be a sixth- or seventh-rounder."

We let that go away over $5 mill a year. We're playing Joe Mays $4 mill a year AND we lost a draft pick to the Eagles for resigning him.

Kaylore
03-21-2012, 12:25 PM
The upside of this is that DT just became even more of a priority than it was before. One way or another, we're going to be drafting one, maybe even two.

Oh we've heard that before. The Broncos hate defensive tackles. They probably will once again ignore the position in the draft and just shrug after the draft ends.

TonyR
03-21-2012, 12:27 PM
I agree, Uber. Disappointed they didn't find a way to get it done, particularly since they haven't signed anyone else to replace him. I'm still underwhelmed (and that's being generous) with this postseason on all fronts other than the QB position.

baja
03-21-2012, 12:27 PM
Hey where is all the Elway praise

yerner
03-21-2012, 12:29 PM
Schefter says 9 guaranteed. Thats alot of cash.

Traveler
03-21-2012, 12:29 PM
$5 mill a year for Bunk was worth it. Ty Warren is getting that kind of money.

"according to PFF, he was the third-rated defensive tackle in the NFL overall, and the best against the run. The Broncos had acquired Bunkley last summer in exchange for a conditional 2013 draft choice believed to be a sixth- or seventh-rounder."

We let that go away over $5 mill a year. We're playing Joe Mays $4 mill a year AND we lost a draft pick to the Eagles for resigning him.

According to a Legwold article, we gave up a 5th rounder in 2013.

MABroncoFan
03-21-2012, 12:30 PM
I think Aubrayo Franklin is a FA too.

TheReverend
03-21-2012, 12:30 PM
Schefter says 9 guaranteed. Thats alot of cash.

9 guaranteed over 5 years is tiny, actually.

LRtagger
03-21-2012, 12:30 PM
obviously doesnt care much about winning he just wanted a payday. with peyton manning here now why on earth wouldnt u wanna stay

Right because the Saints suck.

Ratboy
03-21-2012, 12:30 PM
Too much money. He obviously does not care about winning.

UberBroncoMan
03-21-2012, 12:31 PM
According to a Legwold article, we gave up a 5th rounder in 2013.

Yeah.

Again, I'm happy for the Manning thing and all, but outside of that our FO still has me pissed off. Our signings and lack of retention of key members is ****ing pathetic with our cap space.

boppool
03-21-2012, 12:31 PM
Not sure how these stuff work, but do we get any compensatory pick for him?

oubronco
03-21-2012, 12:32 PM
obviously doesnt care much about winning he just wanted a payday. with peyton manning here now why on earth wouldnt u wanna stay

Bree's?

pricejj
03-21-2012, 12:33 PM
Time to give John Henderson a call...

yerner
03-21-2012, 12:33 PM
9 guaranteed over 5 years is tiny, actually.

I imagine that they don't trust Bunkley to be on the team for 5 years. He was good last year in his contract year. I wouldn't be surprised to watch him regress. Still, it leaves a big hole.

LRtagger
03-21-2012, 12:33 PM
http://www.walterfootball.com/freeagents2012DT.php

24champ
03-21-2012, 12:33 PM
^ that

And Goodman is about 5 mill himself...

Christ, we're paying Goodman/Mays 9 million?

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m17tv7uuPp1r6hd0p.gif

UberBroncoMan
03-21-2012, 12:35 PM
Time for Haynesworth ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFL

Sammie Lee Hill is a 4th Tender RFA too

Ratboy
03-21-2012, 12:35 PM
Right because the Saints suck.

Saints just lost their head coach for the season. :spit:

DomCasual
03-21-2012, 12:36 PM
I agree with the comment about Jack Del Rio. He must have something else in mind. This isn't Shanahan or McD neglecting the position. I have to believe there is a method to the madness, this time. As TJ mentioned, last year, it turned out okay. That was with a rookie DC and Fox.

pricejj
03-21-2012, 12:37 PM
I imagine that they don't trust Bunkley to be on the team for 5 years. He was good last year in his contract year. I wouldn't be surprised to watch him regress. Still, it leaves a big hole.

Bunkley ain't all that...we are on a Superbowl run, and need a real impact player at the NT position...JDR and John Fox know what they are doing.

I ain't mad. Bunkley coudn't take a double team anyway.

55CrushEm
03-21-2012, 12:38 PM
How about compensatory draft picks? When does the league hand them out, and will we be getting any for losing Bunk?

Rohirrim
03-21-2012, 12:38 PM
Hey where is all the Elway praise

Man! You're not joining the sour grapes crew, are you?

Beantown Bronco
03-21-2012, 12:39 PM
Time for Haynesworth ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFL

Sammie Lee Hill is a 4th Tender RFA too

We laugh, but the reality is.....for the 10th year in a row....he'd come in and instantly be our best DT. Even if all he did was loaf around at half speed.

Traveler
03-21-2012, 12:39 PM
Time for Haynesworth ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFL

Sammie Lee Hill is a 4th Tender RFA too

He would be a nice acquisition.

pricejj
03-21-2012, 12:39 PM
Time for Haynesworth ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFL

Sammie Lee Hill is a 4th Tender RFA too

Sammie Lee Hill...that'll work.

Requiem
03-21-2012, 12:40 PM
No.

For once in our god damn lives, in a draft that has some interesting possibilities @ DT.

For the love of Christ, just DRAFT THEM!!!

ward63
03-21-2012, 12:41 PM
How about compensatory draft picks? When does the league hand them out, and will we be getting any for losing Bunk?

We wouldn't get one for him or anybody else until next year.

baja
03-21-2012, 12:41 PM
Man! You're not joining the sour grapes crew, are you?
Give me a couple of days. I'm bummed about Tebow, where he ended up and what we got for him.

KCStud
03-21-2012, 12:41 PM
Everyone loves this move. Now teams can run the ball all game long and Manning won't even see the field. Nice.

Requiem
03-21-2012, 12:44 PM
Everyone loves this move. Now teams can run the ball all game long and Manning won't even see the field. Nice.

You know what move we'd love? If you walked into traffic.

bfoflcommish
03-21-2012, 12:44 PM
Everyone loves this move. Now teams can run the ball all game long and Manning won't even see the field. Nice.

Until Hillis fumbles that is

McDman
03-21-2012, 12:45 PM
No.

For once in our god damn lives, in a draft that has some interesting possibilities @ DT.

For the love of Christ, just DRAFT THEM!!!

You clearly didn't know Pat's parents. Terrible tragedy.

pricejj
03-21-2012, 12:45 PM
No.

For once in our god damn lives, in a draft that has some interesting possibilities @ DT.

For the love of Christ, just DRAFT THEM!!!

Who gives us a better point differential advantage?:

A) Mike Wallace
B) Devon Still
C) If you don't pick A, you're freaking nuts.

TonyR
03-21-2012, 12:46 PM
Brodrick Bunkley has spurned the Broncos' efforts to re-sign him, choosing instead to join the coachless Saints; Lindsay Jones says the team had been optimistic last night they would retain the 28-year-old tackle. According to Adam Schefter, Bunkley has agreed to a five-year deal with $9M in guarantees.

Bunkley had helped revitalize Denver's defense in 2011; according to PFF, he was the third-rated defensive tackle in the NFL overall, and the best against the run. The Broncos had acquired Bunkley last summer in exchange for a conditional 2013 draft choice believed to be a sixth- or seventh-rounder.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/broncos-lose-bunkley-to-saints

yerner
03-21-2012, 12:48 PM
Brodrick Bunkley has spurned the Broncos' efforts to re-sign him, choosing instead to join the coachless Saints; Lindsay Jones says the team had been optimistic last night they would retain the 28-year-old tackle. According to Adam Schefter, Bunkley has agreed to a five-year deal with $9M in guarantees.

Bunkley had helped revitalize Denver's defense in 2011; according to PFF, he was the third-rated defensive tackle in the NFL overall, and the best against the run. The Broncos had acquired Bunkley last summer in exchange for a conditional 2013 draft choice believed to be a sixth- or seventh-rounder.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/broncos-lose-bunkley-to-saints

Bunkley's from Florida. I imagine the draw of being close to home might have influenced his decision.

KCStud
03-21-2012, 12:48 PM
You know what move we'd love? If you walked into traffic.

Calm down slappy. Football is just a game.

KevinJames
03-21-2012, 12:48 PM
If the Manning effect don't work on him hes probably not a guy we want on our roster long term anyway

How often do DT's on a contract year show out?

Requiem
03-21-2012, 12:50 PM
Who gives us a better point differential advantage?:

A) Mike Wallace
B) Devon Still
C) If you don't pick A, you're freaking nuts.

Denver isn't acquiring Wallace as a RFA. So as a sane, rational individual, I will ignore that.

Currently, our two slated starters Vickerson and Warren were on IR last year. I don't even know what other mouth breathers we have. . . Mitch Unrein or some other Samoan turd?

Defensive tackle was and now more than ever is our biggest need.

eddie mac
03-21-2012, 12:51 PM
Isn't this the whole philosophy now that we'll need to stop the pass a hell of a lot more than the run hence they'll likely give Bunkley's money to Porter and plug a couple of mediocre guys in the middle like Vickerson and McBean.

Requiem
03-21-2012, 12:51 PM
Calm down slappy. Football is just a game.

And life is an awesome journey. I think most of us feel bad that you are a Chiefs fan that trolls here.

pricejj
03-21-2012, 12:51 PM
Denver isn't acquiring Wallace as a RFA. So as a sane, rational individual, I will ignore that.


I have been a witness to other miracles (playoff win, Manning), so I'll hold out hope...


Currently, our two slated starters Vickerson and Warren were on IR last year. I don't even know what other mouth breathers we have. . . Mitch Unrein or some other Samoan turd?

Defensive tackle was and now more than ever is our biggest need.

JDR and Fox got it covered bro, don't worry...

Fox never spends high draft picks on DT's anyway, so don't get your hopes up.

extralife
03-21-2012, 12:51 PM
**** me, we never should have even let him visit teams. What do we have at the position now? Nothing. Below nothing. We have to sign OKoyoe and Franklin now, even if we plan on drafting high at the position because we simply could not afford to bust without real players at the position to compensate.

55CrushEm
03-21-2012, 12:52 PM
So what you're saying is.....Bunkley ****ed us in the drive-through.

Beantown Bronco
03-21-2012, 12:52 PM
Defensive tackle was and now more than ever is our biggest need.

Believe it or not, it was an even bigger need last March.

Requiem
03-21-2012, 12:53 PM
Isn't this the whole philosophy now that we'll need to stop the pass a hell of a lot more than the run hence they'll likely give Bunkley's money to Porter and plug a couple of mediocre guys in the middle like Vickerson and McBean.

I'm fine with missing out on Broderick. I hope we can get Tracy in here at a very fair contract at a $ per year amount less than what Bunkley went for -- and I assume we will. From a finance prospective, I'd rather get Saturday and Porter in today than just Bunkley.

This has to force our hand at drafting a DT.

Please God let this be the year we draft a biggins.

yerner
03-21-2012, 12:53 PM
Isn't this the whole philosophy now that we'll need to stop the pass a hell of a lot more than the run hence they'll likely give Bunkley's money to Porter and plug a couple of mediocre guys in the middle like Vickerson and McBean.

Yeah, that's a theory the Colts always used. Due to the points Peyton puts up, defensive tackles need to be less run stuffers and more pass rushers. I don't like it much.

bronco militia
03-21-2012, 12:54 PM
The upside of this is that DT just became even more of a priority than it was before. One way or another, we're going to be drafting one, maybe even two.

simply saying it is not going to make it happen Ha!

Requiem
03-21-2012, 12:56 PM
JDR and Fox got it covered bro, don't worry...

Fox never spends high draft picks on DT's anyway, so don't get your hopes up.

The situation on the DL when Fox was in Carolina was pretty good and there weren't many years where that was a top need on the team.

This team desperately needs to draft a defensive tackle. What Fox did (or was a part of) in Carolina is irrelevant.

JDR is DC. He has been placed in charge of evaluating positions on the defense. He LOVES getting DT's early because he knows how important they are.

We are drafting a DT.

kane0730
03-21-2012, 12:59 PM
He did fail his Brown's physical last year. Maybe the FO had concerns health wise going forward. I'm trying to grab at anything here.

oubronco
03-21-2012, 01:01 PM
Jerel Worthy

http://youtu.be/NsGf5i-_dCE

Devon Still

http://youtu.be/i7-il4z0QRc

Requiem
03-21-2012, 01:01 PM
He did fail his Brown's physical last year. Maybe the FO had concerns health wise going forward. I'm trying to grab at anything here.

reach for your bong!!!!

Rolandftw
03-21-2012, 01:02 PM
DT is the biggest need for us, then. Need to bring in at least 2 quality players at that position.

It is perplexing that we didn't retain Bunkley at that price.

UberBroncoMan
03-21-2012, 01:04 PM
Paging Marcus Stroud and John Henderson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Henderson_%28defensive_tackle%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Stroud

Perhaps they can have a year or two of renewed youth under their old HC!?

Seymour is still tearing it up in his early 30's.

BroncoBeavis
03-21-2012, 01:14 PM
Yeah, that's a theory the Colts always used. Due to the points Peyton puts up, defensive tackles need to be less run stuffers and more pass rushers. I don't like it much.

Yeah, God help us if bringing in Manning means adopting the Colts' defensive philosophy. There's a reason the Colts struggled with teams who could run.

kane0730
03-21-2012, 01:15 PM
From Klis: "That's a lot for guy who played 43 percent of snaps in 2011." Interesting stat, even if it's coming from someone on Denver's payroll.

sgbfan
03-21-2012, 01:21 PM
Can't sign the contract for him. I don't think he wanted to be in Denver. He never showed interest in returning.

pricejj
03-21-2012, 01:27 PM
Paging Marcus Stroud and John Henderson


Big Hen and Stroud...how about a Superbowl run?

Agamemnon
03-21-2012, 01:38 PM
Joe Mays is worth $4 a year but Bunkley isn't worth $5.

OK!

Yeah, no ****. DT is the bane of this team no matter who is in charge.

Agamemnon
03-21-2012, 01:39 PM
Yeah, God help us if bringing in Manning means adopting the Colts' defensive philosophy. There's a reason the Colts struggled with teams who could run.

We've had defenses just as bad in recent years so really nothing would change.

Agamemnon
03-21-2012, 01:40 PM
The situation on the DL when Fox was in Carolina was pretty good and there weren't many years where that was a top need on the team.

This team desperately needs to draft a defensive tackle. What Fox did (or was a part of) in Carolina is irrelevant.

JDR is DC. He has been placed in charge of evaluating positions on the defense. He LOVES getting DT's early because he knows how important they are.

We are drafting a DT.

Watch us draft a toy for Manning instead. Hilarious!

BroncoBeavis
03-21-2012, 01:41 PM
We've had defenses just as bad in recent years so really nothing would change.

Yeah, no doubt. Just didn't see that as being Fox's goal.

Bmore Manning
03-21-2012, 01:41 PM
Draft two.. Thompson/Ta Amu round 2, Chapman/Hicks round 4.
That depends on scheme and who may still be available in the first. I would like to see Mark Barron or Dre Kirpatrick @25 if they are available.

Agamemnon
03-21-2012, 01:47 PM
Yeah, no doubt. Just didn't see that as being Fox's goal.

Did you see us passing 40+ times per game with Fox either? Manning changes things.

Ziggy
03-21-2012, 01:51 PM
Draft two.. Thompson/Ta Amu round 2, Chapman/Hicks round 4.
That depends on scheme and who may still be available in the first. I would like to see Mark Barron or Dre Kirpatrick @25 if they are available.

Ta'amu is long gone before the Broncos pick in the 2nd. He may end up going late first.

BroncoBeavis
03-21-2012, 01:53 PM
Did you see us passing 40+ times per game with Fox either? Manning changes things.

Just hoping it wasn't going to soften up the defensive philosophy so much.

Edge rushing doesn't do **** to Tom Brady.

Requiem
03-21-2012, 01:53 PM
Ta'amu is long gone before the Broncos pick in the 2nd. He may end up going late first.

A lot of teams are doing more medical research on him and becoming worried. His value is in the second.

TonyR
03-21-2012, 02:05 PM
I'm surprised Derek Landri's name hasn't come up. I think he's a FA and he's played for both Jacksonville (Del Rio) and Carolina (Fox). He's smallish but played pretty well for the Eagles last year and could at least be decent depth.

Bmore Manning
03-21-2012, 02:06 PM
I would take a DT in rounds one and two
1. Cox
2. Thompson

That's a ferocious pass rush.. But run support could be weaker.

1. Still
4. Chapman

That's beef for the middle, less pass rush

Agamemnon
03-21-2012, 02:06 PM
Just hoping it wasn't going to soften up the defensive philosophy so much.

Edge rushing doesn't do **** to Tom Brady.

Neither does Peyton Manning. Maybe we'll luck out and someone else will beat the Patriots in the playoffs for us. ;)

cutthemdown
03-21-2012, 02:22 PM
I'm shocked. For the Broncos to be trying to sign him, then lose him, a big failure for Elway.

cutthemdown
03-21-2012, 02:24 PM
Well now since there are FA corners I would have to agree. DT early and often in the draft. I mean how else will they have the bodies needed to field a rotation?

This just a really big failure for Elway after a big hit with Manning. Looks like Saints must have stepped up their offer.

Still Bunk probably just collects, then wallows throw a horrid yr in NO, then gets cut next yr and is a FA again.

HooptyHoops
03-21-2012, 02:24 PM
This is bad news....Bunk should have never have even made it to Free Agency!! Now what?

Beantown Bronco
03-21-2012, 02:27 PM
DT early and often in the draft. I mean how else will they have the bodies needed to field a rotation?

Same as last year when Vickerson was literally the only NFL starting DT on our roster in March: we'll re-sign Marcus Thomas and a few mediocre cheap retreads like Aubrayo Franklin.

I think I'll pass out if we draft one early.

broncswin
03-21-2012, 02:27 PM
Yeah, Joe Mays actually earned his pay check. He is a nice man, has a daughter and a cool dude.

He didn't earn shiat...don't care how nice of a man he is...he suck monkey balls

cutthemdown
03-21-2012, 02:32 PM
Same as last year when Vickerson was literally the only NFL starting DT on our roster in March: we'll re-sign Marcus Thomas and a few mediocre cheap retreads like Aubrayo Franklin.

I think I'll pass out if we draft one early.

I realize they like to kick Ayers inside on 3rd downs but..........:spit:

bendog
03-21-2012, 02:35 PM
He didn't earn shiat...don't care how nice of a man he is...he suck monkey balls

http://gifs.gifbin.com/sw50sw8sw578.gif

ZONA
03-21-2012, 02:45 PM
DT's usually get overpaid in this league and are some of the highest sought after FA's every year. This team has GOT to start picking up DT's early in this draft. BPA is always a good strategy but when you have this big of a need, I dunno, you have to address it. This might be a great year to move out of the 1st round and pick up a second and take 2 DT's in the 2nd.

Powderaddict
03-21-2012, 02:46 PM
I don't like it, but I'll defer to JDR and Fox.