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Kaylore
03-19-2012, 01:51 PM
Was listening to the Ticket (yay Raj) and they had Schefter on in an interview and he dispelled quite a few myths, proving even locally the media is full of crap.

For example Denver was always the front runner because Elway and the front office were the only ones who weren't pressuring him. This apparently made Manning feel like Denver "understood how hard" the decision was. The Titans may have overplayed their hand here with the Governor and whatnot making it about them and not Manning.

The weather was not an issue at all. Manning's fondest memory in Denver is the snow game he beat us MNF. He apparently was looking forward to playing somewhere exposed to the elements. Helton and Stokely told him how the weather is anyway.

Manning made his choice first and did not try to start a bidding war. Denver laid a lot of money down, but that had little to do with his final decision, reportedly.

This had as much to do with the coaching staff as it did the other factors. Fox's reputation as an easy-going coach who likes to delegate and let players play made more sense to him.

Despite reports that the front office was ready to accept him signing elsewhere, Elway was the one guy Manning was in contact with the entire process. After the workout and physical, Elway called him and told to take more time and that apparently made Manning feel really good about this place.

Feel free to add as more news comes out on the crap that was thrown around.

OBF1
03-19-2012, 01:55 PM
Peyton signed with Denver because Tailgatenut sent him a love letter.

SumTingWong
03-19-2012, 01:57 PM
I am so glad we got Elway. I love him as a champ!

And he has a good way about him natural and friendly and strong and powerfull without being a monster.

That is why Manning feel like he belong. We need to be extra nice and considerate treat Peyton like eh's an honored guest in sleeping in your bed room.

So happy for our Superbowl wins to come!

crush17
03-19-2012, 01:57 PM
This is what Im excited to hear about. The behind the scenes stuff. Cant wait to hear more! Thanks for posting!

Ratboy
03-19-2012, 01:58 PM
Thanks for the update.

skunk
03-19-2012, 01:59 PM
peyton manning chose denver because of joe mays

Fedaykin
03-19-2012, 02:00 PM
Was listening to the Ticket (yay Raj) and they had Schefter on in an interview and he dispelled quite a few myths, proving even locally the media is full of crap.

For example Denver was always the front runner because Elway and the front office were the only ones who weren't pressuring him. This apparently made Manning feel like Denver "understood how hard" the decision was. The Titans may have overplayed their hand here with the Governor and whatnot making it about them and not Manning.

The weather was not an issue at all. Manning's fondest memory in Denver is the snow game he beat us MNF. He apparently was looking forward to playing somewhere exposed to the elements. Helton and Stokely told him how the weather is anyway.

Manning made his choice first and did not try to start a bidding war. Denver laid a lot of money down, but that had little to do with his final decision, reportedly.

This had as much to do with the coaching staff as it did the other factors. Fox's reputation as an easy-going coach who likes to delegate and let players play made more sense to him.

Despite reports that the front office was ready to accept him signing elsewhere, Elway was the one guy Manning was in contact with the entire process. After the workout and physical, Elway called him and told to take more time and that apparently made Manning feel really good about this place.

Feel free to add as more news comes out on the crap that was thrown around.


This is patently false. Clearly all the really smart people on the mane know better when they were claiming Elway had no idea what he was doing and was just embarrassing himself.

Garcia Bronco
03-19-2012, 02:04 PM
Nice job John.

"Again, it is the legend."

Taco John
03-19-2012, 02:04 PM
Another piece of evidence showing the professionalism of our front office - despite the perceptions around here.

When you step back and look at everything Elway has accomplished since he's been here - from the coach hiring, the free agents, the drafting, the handling of the very dicey Tebow situation, and now the signing of Peyton Manning - I don't know how you can't give them their due. If anything, Elway is showing he's got a steady hand and is up to the task.

CEH
03-19-2012, 02:07 PM
Nice job John.

"Again, it is the legend."

"Lengen" wait for it "dary"

DenverBrit
03-19-2012, 02:08 PM
Another piece of evidence showing the professionalism of our front office - despite the perceptions around here.

When you step back and look at everything Elway has accomplished since he's been here - from the coach hiring, the free agents, the drafting, the handling of the very dicey Tebow situation, and now the signing of Peyton Manning - I don't know how you can't give them their due. If anything, Elway is showing he's got a steady hand and is up to the task.

:strong:

pricejj
03-19-2012, 02:10 PM
I knew the hands-off approach was the correct way to handle Manning, but when Manning threw for the Titans, I figured we were getting used.

Great job EFX for perservering until the end.

Rother8
03-19-2012, 02:11 PM
peyton manning chose denver because of joe mays

nice avy.

Kaylore
03-19-2012, 02:12 PM
I knew the hands-off approach was the correct way to handle Manning, but when Manning threw for the Titans, I figured we were getting used.

Great job EFX for perservering until the end.

If anything, that shows how classy Manning was. Schefter was clear that at no point did he want the visits used to leverage for more money from the three teams (it was the Niners, Titans and us). His agent was basically on hold until Manning made up his mind, at which point, according to Schefter, Manning told him to deal with us, and only us.

bendog
03-19-2012, 02:12 PM
Now I feel bad about the mean thoughts I had about Peyton. But I remain adament, EFX are ripping this frachise apart, tearing fans families loyalty, and they hate white male christians.

schaaf
03-19-2012, 02:17 PM
Now I feel bad about the mean thoughts I had about Peyton. But I remain adament, EFX are ripping this frachise apart, tearing fans families loyalty, and they hate white male christians.

Them mother ****ers!! I'm white... Male.... And a christian

shalowlow
03-19-2012, 02:19 PM
No matter what ended up happening, I just had a lot of confidence in John Elway.

The funny thing to me is I read an article and someone was saying how great Baalke and Harbaugh played themselves into a position to sign Peyton Manning. Now they might be stuck with a first year starter after they've angered Alex Smith. Not so smooth was it?

Obviously, the winner in this whole saga is the Broncos front office. I love Tebow, but the "Tebow Problem" was too much to bear. Frankly, he is too big to be a backup, but not good enough to be a starter. They rid themselves of the "Tebow Problem" without alienating the fans, and in the same move, make themselves Superbowl Contenders.

It doesn't get better than that.

Gort
03-19-2012, 02:20 PM
actual transcript of EFX negotiating with Manning.

EFX: "we'd like to find a salary that allows us to sign all of the other free agents we'll need on offense and defense to be a SB contender. how does that sound?"
Manning: "**** you. Pay me."
EFX: "ok, but then we'll have to trade away all of our draft picks for the next 3 years to get those players for you. do you really want us to do that?"
Manning: "**** you. Pay me."
EFX: "if it's ok, we'd like to keep enough money to restock Pat's liquor cabinet. do you mind?"
Manning: "**** you. Pay me."

etc., etc.., etc... for 2 solid weeks.

actual photograph of the negotiations

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3581/3326987474_4efc343fcb.jpg

Drek
03-19-2012, 02:25 PM
Another piece of evidence showing the professionalism of our front office - despite the perceptions around here.

When you step back and look at everything Elway has accomplished since he's been here - from the coach hiring, the free agents, the drafting, the handling of the very dicey Tebow situation, and now the signing of Peyton Manning - I don't know how you can't give them their due. If anything, Elway is showing he's got a steady hand and is up to the task.
Why hasn't the FO delt with Tebow in a similarly professional manner? Twice telling him he's the guy, twice bailing on him as soon as the opportunity arose.

You can pat them on the back all you want right now because Elway got his guy, but lets not start sugar coating this and act like this organization is all class. Not after how they've treated one of the nicest, classiest, most honest young professional athletes we've ever seen.

enjolras
03-19-2012, 02:25 PM
If anything, Elway is showing he's got a steady hand and is up to the task.

I think Elway is clearly demonstrating that he's (already) one of the premier executives in this league. John Fox, Jack Del Rio, Peyton Manning... he's made some big time moves.

enjolras
03-19-2012, 02:27 PM
Why hasn't the FO delt with Tebow in a similarly professional manner? Twice telling him he's the guy, twice bailing on him as soon as the opportunity arose.

You can pat them on the back all you want right now because Elway got his guy, but lets not start sugar coating this and act like this organization is all class. Not after how they've treated one of the nicest, classiest, most honest young professional athletes we've ever seen.

Only once have they proclaimed Tebow the starter. After the 2010 season he assumed he would be the starter, the front office (not even in place yet) made no such guarantee.

Even then it doesn't matter. They're doing what they have to do to make this team better. Tebow is enough of a professional to get that. If he's not, then has no business playing with the big kids.

Taco John
03-19-2012, 02:28 PM
Why hasn't the FO delt with Tebow in a similarly professional manner? Twice telling him he's the guy, twice bailing on him as soon as the opportunity arose.

I think you've read too far into what has been said if you think they've told him even once "he's the guy."


You can pat them on the back all you want right now because Elway got his guy, but lets not start sugar coating this and act like this organization is all class. Not after how they've treated one of the nicest, classiest, most honest young professional athletes we've ever seen.

I guess this is a matter of opinion. I've never believed that the Broncos should promise Tebow anything except a chance to compete. The Broncos have always offered that, and no more. True, he was told he would be the starter going into camp this year - but they also told him that they'd be going after two other quarterbacks to compete. Nobody in February knew that Peyton Manning would be available free and clear.

I think the Broncos have handled this situation as well as anyone could have. I don't honestly know what more you could have expected from them.

USMCBladerunner
03-19-2012, 02:28 PM
Stupid Titans.

Next time, don't be so f'in eager!!

Rabb
03-19-2012, 02:30 PM
I think you've read too far into what has been said if you think they've told him even once "he's the guy."




I guess this is a matter of opinion. I've never believed that the Broncos should promise Tebow anything except a chance to compete. The Broncos have always offered that, and no more. True, he was told he would be the starter going into camp this year - but they also told him that they'd be going after two other quarterbacks to compete. Nobody in February knew that Peyton Manning would be available free and clear.

I think the Broncos have handled this situation as well as anyone could have. I don't honestly know what more you could have expected from them.

agreed TJ

it is funny to me that the thought of how we are treating TT is more important than our organization trying to make us a good team

Lestat
03-19-2012, 02:30 PM
i didn't think it was actually possible. but i think i love Elway more now than when we won the back to back SB's.

i wasn't keen on the not signing anyone before Manning but this wasn't possible without the work that Elway put into this franchise in the past 2 seasons.

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 02:32 PM
I think you've read too far into what has been said if you think they've told him even once "he's the guy."




I guess this is a matter of opinion. I've never believed that the Broncos should promise Tebow anything except a chance to compete. The Broncos have always offered that, and no more. True, he was told he would be the starter going into camp this year - but they also told him that they'd be going after two other quarterbacks to compete. Nobody in February knew that Peyton Manning would be available free and clear.

I think the Broncos have handled this situation as well as anyone could have. I don't honestly know what more you could have expected from them.

Sounds like you're making a lot of assumptions when only a little piece of information has come out. If it comes out that (as reported) they gave Tebow the cold shoulder through this whole thing, would that be considered 'professional?'

Ratboy
03-19-2012, 02:32 PM
http://i.imgur.com/TgUqA.jpg

i4jelway7
03-19-2012, 02:32 PM
Another piece of evidence showing the professionalism of our front office - despite the perceptions around here.

When you step back and look at everything Elway has accomplished since he's been here - from the coach hiring, the free agents, the drafting, the handling of the very dicey Tebow situation, and now the signing of Peyton Manning - I don't know how you can't give them their due. If anything, Elway is showing he's got a steady hand and is up to the task.

amen

Lestat
03-19-2012, 02:33 PM
this is professional football, Elway laid it out for anyone who would listen. Tebow was the guy but they needed to see improvement, he had to continue to get better. EFX flat out said that even though Tebow was the started headed into camp that they were going to bring in other QB's to compete and push him.

nowhere was it said that he was the guy and they were going to roll with him and him alone. Elway said many times he hopes Tebow is the guy and that he was going to continue to improve the ball club.
Why hasn't the FO delt with Tebow in a similarly professional manner? Twice telling him he's the guy, twice bailing on him as soon as the opportunity arose.

You can pat them on the back all you want right now because Elway got his guy, but lets not start sugar coating this and act like this organization is all class. Not after how they've treated one of the nicest, classiest, most honest young professional athletes we've ever seen.

Taco John
03-19-2012, 02:34 PM
When the story about John Elway's career as the Broncos chief executive is written, it's going to be about a guy who took a team from 4-12, and managed the transition from Josh McDaniels and Kyle Orton to John Fox and Peyton Manning.

If you want to say that John Elway doesn't know what he's doing and this front office organization sucks - fine. You're welcome to that opinion. But the facts on the ground are the opposite. The top free agent in the history of the game cast his vote on the matter, and he's betting superbowls on it.

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 02:35 PM
agreed TJ

it is funny to me that the thought of how we are treating TT is more important than our organization trying to make us a good team

How you treat your current players is every bit as (if not more) important as how you treat your prospects.

Hard to build a sense of team or any kind of loyalty if you treat your players like commodities.

Rabb
03-19-2012, 02:36 PM
How you treat your current players is every bit as (if not more) important as how you treat your prospects.

Hard to build a sense of team or any kind of loyalty if you treat your players like commodities.

I don't disagree but again this argument is based on a lot of assumptions. I guess nobody will want to play for Miami, Tennessee, Arizona or San Fran now either right?

Crushaholic
03-19-2012, 02:37 PM
Was listening to the Ticket (yay Raj) and they had Schefter on in an interview and he dispelled quite a few myths, proving even locally the media is full of crap.

For example Denver was always the front runner because Elway and the front office were the only ones who weren't pressuring him. This apparently made Manning feel like Denver "understood how hard" the decision was. The Titans may have overplayed their hand here with the Governor and whatnot making it about them and not Manning.

The weather was not an issue at all. Manning's fondest memory in Denver is the snow game he beat us MNF. He apparently was looking forward to playing somewhere exposed to the elements. Helton and Stokely told him how the weather is anyway.

Manning made his choice first and did not try to start a bidding war. Denver laid a lot of money down, but that had little to do with his final decision, reportedly.

This had as much to do with the coaching staff as it did the other factors. Fox's reputation as an easy-going coach who likes to delegate and let players play made more sense to him.

Despite reports that the front office was ready to accept him signing elsewhere, Elway was the one guy Manning was in contact with the entire process. After the workout and physical, Elway called him and told to take more time and that apparently made Manning feel really good about this place.

Feel free to add as more news comes out on the crap that was thrown around.

This factor wasn't given enough attention. The fact that Fox is not a micromanager, shows that Peyton would be comfortable in Denver...

bendog
03-19-2012, 02:37 PM
How you treat your current players is every bit as (if not more) important as how you treat your prospects.

Hard to build a sense of team or any kind of loyalty if you treat your players like commodities.

yeah, Clady, miller, doom, sharpe and TD all agree.

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 02:38 PM
When the story about John Elway's career as the Broncos chief executive is written, it's going to be about a guy who took a team from 4-12, and managed the transition from Josh McDaniels and Kyle Orton to John Fox and Peyton Manning.

If you want to say that John Elway doesn't know what he's doing and this front office organization sucks - fine. You're welcome to that opinion. But the facts on the ground are the opposite. The top free agent in the history of the game cast his vote on the matter, and he's betting superbowls on it.

Wow, we're high-fivin' each other' now for bringing in 36-yo QB's with health concerns because they once won a Super Bowl. Eric Mangini and Brad Childress say congratulations, by the way.

Kaylore
03-19-2012, 02:39 PM
http://i.imgur.com/TgUqA.jpg

LOL

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 02:41 PM
I don't disagree but again this argument is based on a lot of assumptions. I guess nobody will want to play for Miami, Tennessee, Arizona or San Fran now either right?

It's already been out there that Tennessee talked it over with their starter. And he was good with it. That's how you treat people professionally. If the Broncos didn't talk to Tebow this whole time and only let him learn about it through the grapevine, there's no way to describe it as professional.

Drek
03-19-2012, 02:42 PM
I think you've read too far into what has been said if you think they've told him even once "he's the guy."


In fact, I believe the staff (Fox if I recall specifically) did specifically say "He's the guy right now" about Tim Tebow not so long ago.


I guess this is a matter of opinion. I've never believed that the Broncos should promise Tebow anything except a chance to compete. The Broncos have always offered that, and no more. True, he was told he would be the starter going into camp this year - but they also told him that they'd be going after two other quarterbacks to compete. Nobody in February knew that Peyton Manning would be available free and clear.
Yep, nobody knew in February that Manning would be available. ::)

Try the entire ****ing league knew he would be available. Mike Lombardi was talking about that on NFL Network just this morning. You can't really think you can keep trying to sell that bridge do you?

I think the Broncos have handled this situation as well as anyone could have. I don't honestly know what more you could have expected from them.
Honesty with their employees from day one and nothing less. Its not real hard for them to say to Tebow in private "Tim, we have serious doubts about your ability to play QB in this league and we will pursue another option this off-season." Not "Tim, you're the starter going into camp. Oh what's this? Peyton Manning has been released? Why I'm sorry, our priorities have changed."

Praise it as a football move all you want, but when you start attaching "class" and "professionalism" to it you're shoveling manure.

agreed TJ

it is funny to me that the thought of how we are treating TT is more important than our organization trying to make us a good team
I always define someone's professionalism and class by how they treat the people least important to them, not those most important to them. They no longer need Tebow and had a plan to not need him from the day the season ended. They gave him false platitudes and faint praise while working behind the scenes to get rid of him as quickly as they could. How do you define that kind of relationship?

Rabb
03-19-2012, 02:42 PM
It's already been out there that Tennessee talked it over with their starter. And he was good with it. That's how you treat people professionally. If the Broncos didn't talk to Tebow this whole time and only let him learn about it through the grapevine, there's no way to describe it as professional.

again, you are assuming they didn't...you do know Teebs and Peyton are represented by the same agency, right?

barryr
03-19-2012, 02:43 PM
this is professional football, Elway laid it out for anyone who would listen. Tebow was the guy but they needed to see improvement, he had to continue to get better. EFX flat out said that even though Tebow was the started headed into camp that they were going to bring in other QB's to compete and push him.

nowhere was it said that he was the guy and they were going to roll with him and him alone. Elway said many times he hopes Tebow is the guy and that he was going to continue to improve the ball club.

For the thousandth time, signing QB's to "compete" is one thing, signing someone to be given the job with no competing involved is another. How can people not get the difference?

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 02:45 PM
I always define someone's professionalism and class by how they treat the people least important to them, not those most important to them. They no longer need Tebow and had a plan to not need him from the day the season ended. They gave him false platitudes and faint praise while working behind the scenes to get rid of him as quickly as they could. How do you define that kind of relationship?

Well said. And you'd be a fool to think other players don't notice.

Steve Sewell
03-19-2012, 02:45 PM
Calling Aggamemnon to this thread. Aggamemnon, are you there?

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 02:46 PM
again, you are assuming they didn't...you do know Teebs and Peyton are represented by the same agency, right?

"Oh I'm sure he'll find out through his agent" isn't what I had in mind when it comes to professionalism.

Rabb
03-19-2012, 02:47 PM
I am just going to keep the rest of my opinions out of the "poor Timmy" fest, and I say that being a fan of the kid.

SJ Bronco
03-19-2012, 02:47 PM
http://i.imgur.com/TgUqA.jpg

Rep:strong:

Taco John
03-19-2012, 02:47 PM
How you treat your current players is every bit as (if not more) important as how you treat your prospects.

Hard to build a sense of team or any kind of loyalty if you treat your players like commodities.

Tell me how you think the locker room feels right now - like the front office supports them and is gearing up for a championship; or like they are going to work to develop hopefully someday into a team that might be able to compete for a championship.

You think they are happy today, or upset?

Garcia Bronco
03-19-2012, 02:52 PM
When the story about John Elway's career as the Broncos chief executive is written, it's going to be about a guy who took a team from 4-12, and managed the transition from Josh McDaniels and Kyle Orton to John Fox and Peyton Manning.

If you want to say that John Elway doesn't know what he's doing and this front office organization sucks - fine. You're welcome to that opinion. But the facts on the ground are the opposite. The top free agent in the history of the game cast his vote on the matter, and he's betting superbowls on it.

Well said

elsid13
03-19-2012, 02:54 PM
Tell me how you think the locker room feels right now - like the front office supports them and is gearing up for a championship; or like they are going to work to develop hopefully someday into a team that might be able to compete for a championship.

You think they are happy today, or upset?

Since Mcajgee twitted this:
http://twitter.com/#!/willismcgahee
To all my free agents across the nfl, I think u know what time it is. It's about to go down..

I am betting the older players on the team are pretty upset.

USMCBladerunner
03-19-2012, 02:58 PM
i didn't think it was actually possible. but i think i love Elway more now than when we won the back to back SB's.

i wasn't keen on the not signing anyone before Manning but this wasn't possible without the work that Elway put into this franchise in the past 2 seasons.

I understand living in the moment, but this doesn't make any sense to me. Winning Super Bowls is the pinnacle of NFL achievement. How can this signing be loved more than winning back to back Super Bowls?

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 03:00 PM
Tell me how you think the locker room feels right now - like the front office supports them and is gearing up for a championship; or like they are going to work to develop hopefully someday into a team that might be able to compete for a championship.

You think they are happy today, or upset?

Well you've hit on something that kind of blows away all your flowery talk about having the greatest FO in the league.

At the end of the day, it'll all come down to winning. If they don't win a trophy, Elway failed. Failed not only in the short-term, but failed for bailing on his own long term plans. So let's stop scheduling the Super Bowl parties, at least until we've seen a product on the field.

houghtam
03-19-2012, 03:00 PM
Tell me how you think the locker room feels right now - like the front office supports them and is gearing up for a championship; or like they are going to work to develop hopefully someday into a team that might be able to compete for a championship.

You think they are happy today, or upset?

Yeah if I were Joe Mays I'd be really happy with how the Broncos feel about my chances to contribute to a championship.

Doesn't make it the right decision.

Drek
03-19-2012, 03:10 PM
Tell me how you think the locker room feels right now - like the front office supports them and is gearing up for a championship; or like they are going to work to develop hopefully someday into a team that might be able to compete for a championship.

You think they are happy today, or upset?

You can't gauge public perception of someone at their highs if you want an honest assessment, you can only gauge them at their lows.

Lets paint the message for that "low" this paints for Von Miller. Lets say we have Manning for the next three years and have great success. Then he hangs it up and we have nothing at QB for the next three, failing to make the playoffs. How will you feel if at that time Miller, who would then be a free agent, takes his leave of the organization with a quick "sorry bros, you aren't winning any time soon and its all about the Lombardis!"

The organization sent a clear message today that winning is more important to them than honest professional relationships. Thats fine in the short term when everyone is on the Manning high, but how does that work in a few years when that high is over?

They better have one hell of a run with Manning because Elway's credibility as an executive is tied entirely to this move. Either way he's going to be viewed as a former player turned suit who treats players like disposable commodities. You can be that kind of guy if you've got a ring doing it. That doesn't sell as well with nothing to back it up.

Dutch
03-19-2012, 03:11 PM
Another piece of evidence showing the professionalism of our front office - despite the perceptions around here.

When you step back and look at everything Elway has accomplished since he's been here - from the coach hiring, the free agents, the drafting, the handling of the very dicey Tebow situation, and now the signing of Peyton Manning - I don't know how you can't give them their due. If anything, Elway is showing he's got a steady hand and is up to the task.



This!:strong:

DENVERDUI55
03-19-2012, 03:12 PM
How you treat your current players is every bit as (if not more) important as how you treat your prospects.

Hard to build a sense of team or any kind of loyalty if you treat your players like commodities.

Have you seen any dissappointed players or pissed off players over this? All I have seen is excitment except for Tebow.

Taco John
03-19-2012, 03:14 PM
You can't gauge public perception of someone at their highs if you want an honest assessment, you can only gauge them at their lows.

Lets paint the message for that "low" this paints for Von Miller. Lets say we have Manning for the next three years and have great success. Then he hangs it up and we have nothing at QB for the next three, failing to make the playoffs. How will you feel if at that time Miller, who would then be a free agent, takes his leave of the organization with a quick "sorry bros, you aren't winning any time soon and its all about the Lombardis!"

The organization sent a clear message today that winning is more important to them than honest professional relationships. Thats fine in the short term when everyone is on the Manning high, but how does that work in a few years when that high is over?

They better have one hell of a run with Manning because Elway's credibility as an executive is tied entirely to this move.


I'm not about to get in the "lets predict how people feel about it in three years if this fails" game. Guessing how this turns out is beside the point. We are where we are today - period. We went from Josh McDaniels and Kyle Orton to John Fox and Peyton Manning. If you can't step back and congratulate John Elway and our front office for that (and even celebrate a little) - then I don't know what to tell you.

barryr
03-19-2012, 03:14 PM
If the Broncos, after signing Manning, do a little more shopping and not just for former Colts, then I think they can honestly feel good they are going for the Super Bowl. This current roster is not a Super Bowl roster even if Manning was 5 years younger with a great neck. He needs more help to get this team there.

extralife
03-19-2012, 03:14 PM
In fact, I believe the staff (Fox if I recall specifically) did specifically say "He's the guy right now" about Tim Tebow not so long ago.

Chirst. You know what? They lied. Like every coach and every GM lies about every thing every day, like every player lies (including Tim Tebow), like you and I lie when it is to our advantage. Tebow fans are crazy, the media circus is crazy, anything they said anyway was going to be blown up and taken down--that's why Tebow is going to be traded. They couldn't talk about Manning because he was under contract. What do you want them to do, wink wink it in the media? I'm sure you'd be a great GM.

Tombstone RJ
03-19-2012, 03:14 PM
You can't gauge public perception of someone at their highs if you want an honest assessment, you can only gauge them at their lows.

Lets paint the message for that "low" this paints for Von Miller. Lets say we have Manning for the next three years and have great success. Then he hangs it up and we have nothing at QB for the next three, failing to make the playoffs. How will you feel if at that time Miller, who would then be a free agent, takes his leave of the organization with a quick "sorry bros, you aren't winning any time soon and its all about the Lombardis!"

The organization sent a clear message today that winning is more important to them than honest professional relationships. Thats fine in the short term when everyone is on the Manning high, but how does that work in a few years when that high is over?

They better have one hell of a run with Manning because Elway's credibility as an executive is tied entirely to this move. Either way he's going to be viewed as a former player turned suit who treats players like disposable commodities. You can be that kind of guy if you've got a ring doing it. That doesn't sell as well with nothing to back it up.

ah bs.

you really need to get some new material...

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 03:16 PM
Have you seen any dissappointed players or pissed off players over this? All I have seen is excitment except for Tebow.

Jets felt the same way. 'til reality struck.

DBroncos4life
03-19-2012, 03:22 PM
I like reading things like this. After watching our own fans blast our FO its nice to see what one of the biggest FAs in in the history of the NFL thinks about us.

houghtam
03-19-2012, 03:28 PM
I'd just like to take the time to inform everyone that a Google search of the phrase "gutless drunk" still results in the Mane right up at #1.

Gort
03-19-2012, 03:28 PM
the organization did lie, but not to Tebow or about Tebow. they lied to the fans about rebuilding. there is no rebuild in Denver now. it's now time to reload. there is not enough time to build through the draft, so we have to pick up the pieces we need (on offense and defense) via the free agent market and via trades. when you start trading for players, and the other team knows you're desperate (which we are), you end up paying through the nose. there will be no 2012 draft for the Broncos. we will be sending the valuable picks to other teams as part of trades. however, we don't have enough valuable picks in 2012, so we'll also be shipping out 2013 picks. the more we pick up players this way, the more we will have to give up future picks. this is the Shanny way that we all saw not work for more than a decade. however, Elway learned under Shanny and he thinks this is the way to do things, so he's gone all in. maybe Bowlen is telling him now is the time to win another Lombardi because there are health issues we don't know about with Bowlen. all i know is that this is a huge gamble and even if it pays off, in 3 or 4 years, we are going to be up the creek without a paddle and looking at another lengthy rebuilding process of several years.

alot of people who really don't understand very much are celebrating today. they think Manning magically solves all of the problems. he doesn't. he changes the priorities of the team and puts us on the clock to get all of those priorities filled. the clock is now ticking. 5 years for $95M is just the tip of the iceberg. alot more money will need to be spent. alot of draft picks will have to be sacrificed. Elway has got to know this is a huge gamble. i'm surprised the Manning fanboys don't know this as well. it may pan out. it may not. odds are it doesn't. odds are we are in deep **** 3 or 4 years from now too.

just one fan's opinion who has rooted for the Broncos for 35 years.

PS... if you think the "Teboners" were bad, wait until the Indiancrapolis Manning nuthuggers show up.

Gort
03-19-2012, 03:30 PM
I like reading things like this. After watching our own fans blast our FO its nice to see what one of the biggest FAs in in the history of the NFL thinks about us.

if you paid me $95M, i would say nice things about you too.

Mountain Bronco
03-19-2012, 03:30 PM
A lot of buthurt tebow fans. Hope you have fun on your new teams message boards.

I want true Broncos fans back on this board. Like now. If you are a tebow fan first, and broncos fan because he is on the Broncos, get the F out.

Signed, appreciative of what a great guy Tebow is, but grateful he is moving on.

orangeatheist
03-19-2012, 03:31 PM
We went from Josh McDaniels and Kyle Orton to John Fox and Peyton Manning.

Now THAT'S called proper perspective! :strong:

Drek
03-19-2012, 03:31 PM
I'm not about to get in the "lets predict how people feel about it in three years if this fails" game. Guessing how this turns out is beside the point. We are where we are today - period. We went from Josh McDaniels and Kyle Orton to John Fox and Peyton Manning. If you can't step back and congratulate John Elway and our front office for that (and even celebrate a little) - then I don't know what to tell you.

Where we are today is a team that still employs 50% of Josh McDaniels' coaching staff, a large portion of his front office (including the GM), and still has the majority of its roster from his time here.

We've signed Manning. That's Elway's big mark. To make that mark he's stripped away one of the more promising things left over from the previous regime (Tebow) and spent a ton of money to do it. Good for him, I hope it works out.

Also, I wasn't trying to predict anything. I was giving the hypothetical end game of what you're describing. Management that focuses entirely on their own gain breeds employees who are equally focused on their own gain. So your "well I'm sure the players are happy right now!" BS line sounds good to you now, but don't be surprised if it tastes a bit like sour grapes in a few years.

Chirst. You know what? They lied. Like every coach and every GM lies about every thing every day, like every player lies (including Tim Tebow), like you and I lie when it is to our advantage. Tebow fans are crazy, the media circus is crazy, anything they said anyway was going to be blown up and taken down--that's why Tebow is going to be traded. They couldn't talk about Manning because he was under contract. What do you want them to do, wink wink it in the media? I'm sure you'd be a great GM.
1. I never lie. I investigate, design, and direct hazardous waste removal. Something with real world repercussions. I never lie. Not professionally and not personally. I keep a written log of everything I do in a given day in a sewn bound notebook where you can't physically alter the notebook without leaving a trace of what you did. I hold myself to that standard and every one of my colleagues. I will give clear statements of "no comment" quite frequently, as any professional when faced with a hostile interview should, but I never lie.

2. Trading a valuable asset because you can't handle the direction of the PR is a sign of a weak organization. You think Bill Belichick would struggle with this dilemma in New England?

3. The entire point of the conversation you just joined was based upon Taco saying that this signing was thanks to the organization's professionalism. I don't associate professionalism with lying.

BigPlayShay
03-19-2012, 03:32 PM
So, you think Manning delayed the decision so it did not fall on 3/16 LOL

theAPAOps5
03-19-2012, 03:37 PM
Was listening to the Ticket (yay Raj) and they had Schefter on in an interview and he dispelled quite a few myths, proving even locally the media is full of crap.

For example Denver was always the front runner because Elway and the front office were the only ones who weren't pressuring him. This apparently made Manning feel like Denver "understood how hard" the decision was. The Titans may have overplayed their hand here with the Governor and whatnot making it about them and not Manning.

The weather was not an issue at all. Manning's fondest memory in Denver is the snow game he beat us MNF. He apparently was looking forward to playing somewhere exposed to the elements. Helton and Stokely told him how the weather is anyway.

Manning made his choice first and did not try to start a bidding war. Denver laid a lot of money down, but that had little to do with his final decision, reportedly.

This had as much to do with the coaching staff as it did the other factors. Fox's reputation as an easy-going coach who likes to delegate and let players play made more sense to him.

Despite reports that the front office was ready to accept him signing elsewhere, Elway was the one guy Manning was in contact with the entire process. After the workout and physical, Elway called him and told to take more time and that apparently made Manning feel really good about this place.

Feel free to add as more news comes out on the crap that was thrown around.

So not inept and cheap but calculated and measured. hmmmmm

Chris
03-19-2012, 03:38 PM
So much rep to Drek, JohnGalt and Beavis in this thread. Clear heads.

broncolife
03-19-2012, 03:38 PM
the organization did lie, but not to Tebow or about Tebow. they lied to the fans about rebuilding. there is no rebuild in Denver now. it's now time to reload. there is not enough time to build through the draft, so we have to pick up the pieces we need (on offense and defense) via the free agent market and via trades. when you start trading for players, and the other team knows you're desperate (which we are), you end up paying through the nose. there will be no 2012 draft for the Broncos. we will be sending the valuable picks to other teams as part of trades. however, we don't have enough valuable picks in 2012, so we'll also be shipping out 2013 picks. the more we pick up players this way, the more we will have to give up future picks. this is the Shanny way that we all saw not work for more than a decade. however, Elway learned under Shanny and he thinks this is the way to do things, so he's gone all in. maybe Bowlen is telling him now is the time to win another Lombardi because there are health issues we don't know about with Bowlen. all i know is that this is a huge gamble and even if it pays off, in 3 or 4 years, we are going to be up the creek without a paddle and looking at another lengthy rebuilding process of several years.

alot of people who really don't understand very much are celebrating today. they think Manning magically solves all of the problems. he doesn't. he changes the priorities of the team and puts us on the clock to get all of those priorities filled. the clock is now ticking. 5 years for $95M is just the tip of the iceberg. alot more money will need to be spent. alot of draft picks will have to be sacrificed. Elway has got to know this is a huge gamble. i'm surprised the Manning fanboys don't know this as well. it may pan out. it may not. odds are it doesn't. odds are we are in deep **** 3 or 4 years from now too.

just one fan's opinion who has rooted for the Broncos for 35 years.

PS... if you think the "Teboners" were bad, wait until the Indiancrapolis Manning nuthuggers show up.

this is the Shanny way that we all saw not work for more than a decade.
But we also didnt have a hall of fame qb for those 10 years. It worked when we did.

PS... if you think the "Teboners" were bad, wait until the Indiancrapolis Manning nuthuggers show up
I know, get ready for all the Manning fans to say the greatest qb to play for the broncos is Manning

DBroncos4life
03-19-2012, 03:40 PM
if you paid me $95M, i would say nice things about you too.

Sorry my bad for thinking positive

houghtam
03-19-2012, 03:41 PM
So much rep to Drek, JohnGalt and Beavis in this thread. Clear heads.

tebonner

SonOfLe-loLang
03-19-2012, 03:42 PM
Well you've hit on something that kind of blows away all your flowery talk about having the greatest FO in the league.

At the end of the day, it'll all come down to winning. If they don't win a trophy, Elway failed. Failed not only in the short-term, but failed for bailing on his own long term plans. So let's stop scheduling the Super Bowl parties, at least until we've seen a product on the field.

This is incredily non-sensical. You speak as if Tebow was guaranteed to lead the broncos to multiple championships after 2016, but Elway wasnt patient enough so he's trying to win now instead.

Peyton is probably one of the 5 best qb's to play the game. Its a risk worth taking. If the broncos are very competitive over the next few years with PM and dont win a super bowl, its not an autofail.

SonOfLe-loLang
03-19-2012, 03:43 PM
If the Broncos, after signing Manning, do a little more shopping and not just for former Colts, then I think they can honestly feel good they are going for the Super Bowl. This current roster is not a Super Bowl roster even if Manning was 5 years younger with a great neck. He needs more help to get this team there.

What are wrong with the former colts?

SonOfLe-loLang
03-19-2012, 03:44 PM
this is the Shanny way that we all saw not work for more than a decade.
But we also didnt have a hall of fame qb for those 10 years. It worked when we did.

PS... if you think the "Teboners" were bad, wait until the Indiancrapolis Manning nuthuggers show up
I know, get ready for all the Manning fans to say the greatest qb to play for the broncos is Manning

"Manning Nuthuggers" Please show me where these guys exist?

In fact, i bet they don't exist because there's not a question about his playing ability. people only double down on this **** when there's a side to take

Taco John
03-19-2012, 03:45 PM
3. The entire point of the conversation you just joined was based upon Taco saying that this signing was thanks to the organization's professionalism. I don't associate professionalism with lying.

And I think it's hyperbole to say the Broncos lied to anyone.

barryr
03-19-2012, 03:46 PM
What are wrong with the former colts?

Nothing, just stated they need to look beyond just them for help.

orangeatheist
03-19-2012, 03:46 PM
So, you think Manning delayed the decision so it did not fall on 3/16 LOL

So, what does John 3:19 say?

"This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil."

;D

Gort
03-19-2012, 03:47 PM
this is the Shanny way that we all saw not work for more than a decade.
But we also didnt have a hall of fame qb for those 10 years. It worked when we did.

PS... if you think the "Teboners" were bad, wait until the Indiancrapolis Manning nuthuggers show up
I know, get ready for all the Manning fans to say the greatest qb to play for the broncos is Manning

Shanny's drafts didn't really correspond to Elways 2 SB wins. weren't those in Shanny's 2nd and 3rd years? it was during the Griese and Plummer eras where we saw just how little value he placed on the draft. he got lucky a few picks here and there, but also had some real stinkers. at best, you could say he was mediocre. today's elite teams build their talent and depth through the draft. it takes time. it takes smarts. it takes luck. if you're in the instant gratification game, it also takes too long. that was Shanny's problem. i think possibly somebody in the FO is equally impatient.

i can't root for Manning. i just can't. he's a mercenary. he'll retire as a Colt. he'll go into the HOF as a Colt. i can't forgive him for the playoff blowouts from 2003 and 2004. i can't stand the hand waving and arm flapping he does at the line of scrimmage. most of all, he's the face of a stolen franchise and always will be and i can't root for him because of that. the Colts belong in Baltimore. they were my team as a youngster (the Broncos were #2) and they were stolen in the middle of the night by a drunken lawyer from Chicago, whose own mother called him "the devil". i just can't root for the guy who those toothless cow-tippers in Indy think is the best player in history.

i'll choose to root for Champ. if this big gamble pays off, i'll be happy to see guys like Champ get a ring. that's the most i can do.

Rohirrim
03-19-2012, 03:48 PM
Was listening to the Ticket (yay Raj) and they had Schefter on in an interview and he dispelled quite a few myths, proving even locally the media is full of crap.

For example Denver was always the front runner because Elway and the front office were the only ones who weren't pressuring him. This apparently made Manning feel like Denver "understood how hard" the decision was. The Titans may have overplayed their hand here with the Governor and whatnot making it about them and not Manning.

The weather was not an issue at all. Manning's fondest memory in Denver is the snow game he beat us MNF. He apparently was looking forward to playing somewhere exposed to the elements. Helton and Stokely told him how the weather is anyway.

Manning made his choice first and did not try to start a bidding war. Denver laid a lot of money down, but that had little to do with his final decision, reportedly.

This had as much to do with the coaching staff as it did the other factors. Fox's reputation as an easy-going coach who likes to delegate and let players play made more sense to him.

Despite reports that the front office was ready to accept him signing elsewhere, Elway was the one guy Manning was in contact with the entire process. After the workout and physical, Elway called him and told to take more time and that apparently made Manning feel really good about this place.

Feel free to add as more news comes out on the crap that was thrown around.

Ha! So the entire sports media structure of the United States is full of ****. What say you, Josina? :rofl:

TonyR
03-19-2012, 03:48 PM
To make that mark he's stripped away one of the more promising things left over from the previous regime (Tebow) and spent a ton of money to do it.

This is may be the very foundation for a lot of the disagreement here. EFX clearly didn't think Tebow was "one of the most promising things" about this team, and I think a very large majority of people around the league would agree. Most just don't see him as a long term answer at the QB position.

Taco John
03-19-2012, 03:49 PM
So, what does John 3:19 say?

"This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil."

;D

Now that is hilarious!

extralife
03-19-2012, 03:49 PM
1. I never lie.

you just did :O

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 03:49 PM
What are wrong with the former colts?

Nothing, if you're building a retirement community.

SonOfLe-loLang
03-19-2012, 03:50 PM
Shanny's drafts didn't really correspond to Elways 2 SB wins. weren't those in Shanny's 2nd and 3rd years? it was during the Griese and Plummer eras where we saw just how little value he placed on the draft. he got lucky a few picks here and there, but also had some real stinkers. at best, you could say he was mediocre. today's elite teams build their talent and depth through the draft. it takes time. it takes smarts. it takes luck. if you're in the instant gratification game, it also takes too long. that was Shanny's problem. i think possibly somebody in the FO is equally impatient.

i can't root for Manning. i just can't. he's a mercenary. he'll retire as a Colt. he'll go into the HOF as a Colt. i can't forgive him for the playoff blowouts from 2003 and 2004. i can't stand the hand waving and arm flapping he does at the line of scrimmage. most of all, he's the face of a stolen franchise and always will be and i can't root for him because of that. the Colts belong in Baltimore. they were my team as a youngster (the Broncos were #2) and they were stolen in the middle of the night by a drunken lawyer from Chicago, whose own mother called him "the devil". i just can't root for the guy who those toothless cow-tippers in Indy think is the best player in history.

i'll choose to root for Champ. if this big gamble pays off, i'll be happy to see guys like Champ get a ring. that's the most i can do.

I'm a fan who only roots for the uniform. I cant wait to watch Peyton be annoying at the LOS.

SonOfLe-loLang
03-19-2012, 03:51 PM
Nothing, if you're building a retirement community.

We have a very young team...moving in some older vets in place of some of our crappier young guys isnt a bad thing. Rising tides

Gort
03-19-2012, 03:52 PM
This is incredily non-sensical. You speak as if Tebow was guaranteed to lead the broncos to multiple championships after 2016, but Elway wasnt patient enough so he's trying to win now instead.

Peyton is probably one of the 5 best qb's to play the game. Its a risk worth taking. If the broncos are very competitive over the next few years with PM and dont win a super bowl, its not an autofail.

Marino
Kelly
Elway
Montana
Young
Unitas
Bradshaw

and a few others all beg to differ.

Manning is not GOAT. Manning is not top 5. Manning is one of the best of his generation, but that generation has had rules in place that catered to protecting the QB and receivers and overwhelmingly favored a passing offense over everything else. Manning has also benefitted from officiating that gives him the benefit of the doubt. when Manning wants a flag thrown, he gets a flag thrown.

it's not even clear that Manning will be considered better than Brady in this generation, or even his younger brother at this point. alot of empty passing yards with only 1 Lombardi to show for it is going to be hard to argue if Brady retires with 5 or 6 Lombardis.

TonyR
03-19-2012, 03:53 PM
Is John Elway a liar or do we just need to redefine what we think "training camp" means? I'd suggest the latter.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/gut-reaction-broncos-sign-peyton-manning

Taco John
03-19-2012, 03:54 PM
Marino
Kelly
Elway
Montana
Young
Unitas
Bradshaw


Manning is very comfortable in that group.

And Bradshaw approached Roethlisberger territory, not Elway territory.

Gort
03-19-2012, 03:55 PM
I'm a fan who only roots for the uniform. I cant wait to watch Peyton be annoying at the LOS.

could you root for Philip Rivers in a Broncos uniform?

could you root for Ben Rapistburger in a Broncos uniform?

if the Broncos moved to Los Angeles, could you root for Mark Sanchez in a Broncos uniform playing for the Los Angeles Broncos?

that's my dilemma.

houghtam
03-19-2012, 03:56 PM
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&sclient=psy-ab&q=gutless+drunk&oq=gutless+drunk&aq=f&aqi=&aql=1&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=3305l5657l0l5959l13l10l0l3l3l1l195l1148l6.4 l13l0&gs_l=hp.3...3305l5657l0l5960l13l10l0l3l3l1l195l114 8l6j4l13l0.cgsbsh.1.&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=f5f10ba442e5ddd8&biw=1024&bih=629

Rohirrim
03-19-2012, 03:56 PM
Is John Elway a liar or do we just need to redefine what we think "training camp" means? I'd suggest the latter.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/

Elway and Fox have always given qualified statements about Tebow. Some people preferred to read into those statements things that were not there. Elway always included, "But, he has to... " A lot of people ignored that.

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 03:57 PM
We have a very young team...moving in some older vets in place of some of our crappier young guys isnt a bad thing. Rising tides

Peyton needs a top 10 TE. Not one that used to be.

DENVERDUI55
03-19-2012, 03:57 PM
Marino
Kelly
Elway
Montana
Young
Unitas
Bradshaw

and a few others all beg to differ.

Manning is not GOAT. Manning is not top 5. Manning is one of the best of his generation, but that generation has had rules in place that catered to protecting the QB and receivers and overwhelmingly favored a passing offense over everything else. Manning has also benefitted from officiating that gives him the benefit of the doubt. when Manning wants a flag thrown, he gets a flag thrown.

it's not even clear that Manning will be considered better than Brady in this generation, or even his younger brother at this point. alot of empty passing yards with only 1 Lombardi to show for it is going to be hard to argue if Brady retires with 5 or 6 Lombardis.

He is better than Marino, Kelly, Young. He is top 5 in my opinion.

Gort
03-19-2012, 03:58 PM
Manning is very comfortable in that group.

And Bradshaw approached Roethlisberger territory, not Elway territory.

Manning would not have survived this long if he'd played in the 70's. whatever faults Bradshaw had, he won a bunch of Lombardis and was a tough SOB as a QB. and he did put up pretty decent passing stats, or Swann and Stallworth wouldn't have made it into the HOF.

i also forgot Staubach on my list. maybe also Fouts. Dan Fouts playing today with the receivers he had would have thrown for a gazillion yards.

what Manning has accomplished in this era has to be understood in context. that's all i'm saying. anyone who automatically puts him in the top 5 just tells me that they aren't old enough to remember the elite QBs of the 70's and 80's.

El Minion
03-19-2012, 03:59 PM
Marino
Kelly
Elway
Montana
Young
Unitas
Bradshaw

and a few others all beg to differ.

Manning is not GOAT. Manning is not top 5. Manning is one of the best of his generation, but that generation has had rules in place that catered to protecting the QB and receivers and overwhelmingly favored a passing offense over everything else. Manning has also benefitted from officiating that gives him the benefit of the doubt. when Manning wants a flag thrown, he gets a flag thrown.

it's not even clear that Manning will be considered better than Brady in this generation, or even his younger brother at this point. alot of empty passing yards with only 1 Lombardi to show for it is going to be hard to argue if Brady retires with 5 or 6 Lombardis.

Bradshaw can thank the Steel Curtain for his rings, and Kelly can blame himself because those Bills had talent on both sides of the ball and Kelly flamed out in the SB, especially the first one. Manning has done more with less O talent and more turnover for a longer period then those two. Manning>Kelly>Bradshaw

lonestar
03-19-2012, 04:01 PM
Shanny's drafts didn't really correspond to Elways 2 SB wins. weren't those in Shanny's 2nd and 3rd years? it was during the Griese and Plummer eras where we saw just how little value he placed on the draft. he got lucky a few picks here and there, but also had some real stinkers. at best, you could say he was mediocre. today's elite teams build their talent and depth through the draft. it takes time. it takes smarts. it takes luck. if you're in the instant gratification game, it also takes too long. that was Shanny's problem. i think possibly somebody in the FO is equally impatient.

i can't root for Manning. i just can't. he's a mercenary. he'll retire as a Colt. he'll go into the HOF as a Colt. i can't forgive him for the playoff blowouts from 2003 and 2004. i can't stand the hand waving and arm flapping he does at the line of scrimmage. most of all, he's the face of a stolen franchise and always will be and i can't root for him because of that. the Colts belong in Baltimore. they were my team as a youngster (the Broncos were #2) and they were stolen in the middle of the night by a drunken lawyer from Chicago, whose own mother called him "the devil". i just can't root for the guy who those toothless cow-tippers in Indy think is the best player in history.

i'll choose to root for Champ. if this big gamble pays off, i'll be happy to see guys like Champ get a ring. that's the most i can do.

Good post until you got to not being able to root for Manning..

mikey was under the gun and because he did SO WELL during free agency's infantcy picking up some great players for the super bowl run. That he just assume he could do it forever.. But then after all teh other coaches saw what he had done rather cheaply they drove the cost of doing business that way through teh roof..

As for his great draft choices..

out of 45+ first day guys 1999- 06 the Broncos only ever resigned 5 of them to second contracts before or after their contracts expired..

countless guys were lost to more money elsewhere because he had sold the farm on expensive FA busts to numerous to count.. almost every year over the cap and having to cut players or re-mortgage the ones that would do so each time giving them more UP front money (that could be amortized over the life of the contract).. The total amount was the same for these guys but they got it up front.. Jake retired off of the 3 times he re-did his contract. had a gazillion in the bank from it..

But mikey screwed over this team big time with his whiffs..

SonOfLe-loLang
03-19-2012, 04:03 PM
could you root for Philip Rivers in a Broncos uniform?

could you root for Ben Rapistburger in a Broncos uniform?

if the Broncos moved to Los Angeles, could you root for Mark Sanchez in a Broncos uniform playing for the Los Angeles Broncos?

that's my dilemma.

Yes.
Yes.

Thoguh im not sure how I would react if the Broncos moved...ive had that conversation before many times...though if they moved to LA, I'm sure id stay one considering i live here.

SonOfLe-loLang
03-19-2012, 04:04 PM
Marino
Kelly
Elway
Montana
Young
Unitas
Bradshaw

and a few others all beg to differ.

Manning is not GOAT. Manning is not top 5. Manning is one of the best of his generation, but that generation has had rules in place that catered to protecting the QB and receivers and overwhelmingly favored a passing offense over everything else. Manning has also benefitted from officiating that gives him the benefit of the doubt. when Manning wants a flag thrown, he gets a flag thrown.

it's not even clear that Manning will be considered better than Brady in this generation, or even his younger brother at this point. alot of empty passing yards with only 1 Lombardi to show for it is going to be hard to argue if Brady retires with 5 or 6 Lombardis.

Peyton Manning is absolutely ABSOLUTELY in that group. He dragged some crappy teams deep in the playoffs and to a super bowl for years. He WAS that team.

2008 Pats - 11-5 with Matt Cassell
2011 Colts - Worst team in the league.

extralife
03-19-2012, 04:04 PM
Marino
Kelly
Elway
Montana
Young
Unitas
Bradshaw

and a few others all beg to differ.

if you think TERRY ****ING BRADSHAW was a better QB than Peyton Manning I don't know what to tell you. Kelly and Marino are bad enough, but Bradshaw is lifting me into orbit with the power of the lols.

SonOfLe-loLang
03-19-2012, 04:05 PM
And by what standard exactly is Marino better than Manning?

SonOfLe-loLang
03-19-2012, 04:06 PM
Manning would not have survived this long if he'd played in the 70's. whatever faults Bradshaw had, he won a bunch of Lombardis and was a tough SOB as a QB. and he did put up pretty decent passing stats, or Swann and Stallworth wouldn't have made it into the HOF.

i also forgot Staubach on my list. maybe also Fouts. Dan Fouts playing today with the receivers he had would have thrown for a gazillion yards.

what Manning has accomplished in this era has to be understood in context. that's all i'm saying. anyone who automatically puts him in the top 5 just tells me that they aren't old enough to remember the elite QBs of the 70's and 80's.

Its impossible to compare really. But Peyton is one of the best ever. How is this even an argument????

Gort
03-19-2012, 04:10 PM
Peyton Manning is absolutely ABSOLUTELY in that group. He dragged some crappy teams deep in the playoffs and to a super bowl for years. He WAS that team.

2008 Pats - 11-5 with Matt Cassell
2011 Colts - Worst team in the league.

let those guys in the 60's and 70's and 80's play with the same rules Manning has benefited from, and Peyton wouldn't even be in the conversation for top 15. i remember what defenses could do back then. QBs got hit... alot. no flags. receivers got hit... alot. no flags. it was a tougher game back then. much tougher. Manning is a pocket passer. he's not tough. his career would have been over long ago if he played with the rules guys from his father's generation did. this is why you cannot compare players from different eras and this is why alot of us old enough know that Manning is very fortunate to be playing now, instead of 25 years ago.

i do think Manning is the real 2011 MVP. his value to that Colts team was much higher than any other player to any other team. and after he retires i'll respect what he's accomplished, but i'm not a Manning fan now and will not root for him as a Bronco. i'll root for everyone else on the team, but i just can't root for Manning. just like i couldn't root for Rivers if he was our QB.

Gort
03-19-2012, 04:13 PM
Its impossible to compare really. But Peyton is one of the best ever. How is this even an argument????

who was the better HR hitter?

Babe Ruth, who hit tons of HRs in an era where very few others hit HRs...

or Barry Bonds who hit 71 in an era of steroids, small ballparks, and watered-down pitching because of expansion?

it's the same sort of argument. there is no doubt Barry Bonds hit more HRs in a season than Babe Ruth, but it's also not in dispute that Bonds benefited alot from the era in which he played.

lolcopter
03-19-2012, 04:19 PM
i'll root for everyone else on the team, but i just can't root for Manning. just like i couldn't root for Rivers if he was our QB.

that's pretty harsh bro, but i see where you're coming from as i've hated manning forever. primarily because:

1) he is so ****ing good
2) he is not on my favorite team
3) he does way too many endorsements

it's amazing how quickly your mind can change when one of the greatest QBs (and free agents) in the history of the game picks your team as his new destination.

HOLLA :egbgb:

Guessed
03-19-2012, 04:20 PM
Fact: Since 2007 season, as an NFL quarterback, Peyton Manning has won one more playoff game than Tim Tebow.

Peyton Manning's playoff record since 2007
2007 0-1
2008 0-1
2009 2-1
2010 0-1
(overall that's a 2-4 record in that time span or 33% win percentage)

Tim Tebow's NFL playoff record:
2011 1-1 (50% win percentage)

Myth: By adding Manning, the Broncos should be favorites in the AFC to make it to the Super Bowl.

There's no question that Peyton Manning has better quarterback skills than Tim Tebow and just about anyone else in the history of the NFL and he'll be a great addition to the Broncos. However, check back in about a dozen years to see who has more Super Bowl rings, Peyton Manning or Tim Tebow. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. In the last 5 years, Peyton Manning lead teams have mostly fallen short of expectations in the playoffs. The small sample size with Tim Tebow lead playoff teams have shown that they've far exceeded expectations in spite of how "ugly" at times the quarterback play may have looked.

yerner
03-19-2012, 04:22 PM
who was the better HR hitter?

Babe Ruth, who hit tons of HRs in an era where very few others hit HRs...

or Barry Bonds who hit 71 in an era of steroids, small ballparks, and watered-down pitching because of expansion?

it's the same sort of argument. there is no doubt Barry Bonds hit more HRs in a season than Babe Ruth, but it's also not in dispute that Bonds benefited alot from the era in which he played.

Get outta here. Ruth played against all white guys.

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 04:23 PM
if you think TERRY ****ING BRADSHAW was a better QB than Peyton Manning I don't know what to tell you. Kelly and Marino are bad enough, but Bradshaw is lifting me into orbit with the power of the lols.

Marino put up modern numbers when the game wasn't modern. I wouldn't put Manning ahead of him. Although as I've said before (and has been said here) there's no easy comparison between eras.

SonOfLe-loLang
03-19-2012, 04:27 PM
let those guys in the 60's and 70's and 80's play with the same rules Manning has benefited from, and Peyton wouldn't even be in the conversation for top 15. i remember what defenses could do back then. QBs got hit... alot. no flags. receivers got hit... alot. no flags. it was a tougher game back then. much tougher. Manning is a pocket passer. he's not tough. his career would have been over long ago if he played with the rules guys from his father's generation did. this is why you cannot compare players from different eras and this is why alot of us old enough know that Manning is very fortunate to be playing now, instead of 25 years ago.

i do think Manning is the real 2011 MVP. his value to that Colts team was much higher than any other player to any other team. and after he retires i'll respect what he's accomplished, but i'm not a Manning fan now and will not root for him as a Bronco. i'll root for everyone else on the team, but i just can't root for Manning. just like i couldn't root for Rivers if he was our QB.

The first paragraph is 100 percent complete speculation. You have NO clue how he would have played. And i bet some of those QBs that had success in the 70's would have been woefully **** in today's game because they werent as accurate. The game is much more complex than it used to be. And Peyton uses this to his advantage.

Your hatred towards him because he's not a "real Bronco" is ****ing insane, im sorry. He's playing for the broncos now, he'll try his hardest as a bronco, and if youre a broncos fan, you should take pride in his victories. If he's ****, then go on and double your hate...but to not like him when he's helping our team? Jeez

frerottenextelway
03-19-2012, 04:28 PM
"Manning Nuthuggers" Please show me where these guys exist?

In fact, i bet they don't exist because there's not a question about his playing ability. people only double down on this **** when there's a side to take

My dad is a colts fan. He called me today to say he switched teams.

SonOfLe-loLang
03-19-2012, 04:29 PM
Marino put up modern numbers when the game wasn't modern. I wouldn't put Manning ahead of him. Although as I've said before (and has been said here) there's no easy comparison between eras.

There isnt...but they are all in that conversation. Anyone who says otherwise is letting hate cloud their judgment. And i dont know why there is Manning hate. What has he ever done thats that objectionable? Funny commercials?

Gort
03-19-2012, 04:30 PM
if you think TERRY ****ING BRADSHAW was a better QB than Peyton Manning I don't know what to tell you. Kelly and Marino are bad enough, but Bradshaw is lifting me into orbit with the power of the lols.

tell a Steelers fan that Manning is better than Bradshaw and 10 seconds later you'll be picking your teeth up off the floor. whether you think he was or not isn't the point. the point is that there are alot of people who think he was because in the end, he was 4-0 in superbowls and twice the MVP of the superbowl.

SonOfLe-loLang
03-19-2012, 04:30 PM
My dad is a colts fan. He called me today to say he switched teams.

Is he a "nut hugger" I doubt it, because there's no argument. Manning is good. Tebow fans came out with the whole "youre wrong" element. Thats what made it annoying. Theres no controversy with PM...hes good! everyone knows it. next

SonOfLe-loLang
03-19-2012, 04:31 PM
Fact: Since 2007 season, as an NFL quarterback, Peyton Manning has won one more playoff game than Tim Tebow.

Peyton Manning's playoff record since 2007
2007 0-1
2008 0-1
2009 2-1
2010 0-1
(overall that's a 2-4 record in that time span or 33% win percentage)

Tim Tebow's NFL playoff record:
2011 1-1 (50% win percentage)

Myth: By adding Manning, the Broncos should be favorites in the AFC to make it to the Super Bowl.

There's no question that Peyton Manning has better quarterback skills than Tim Tebow and just about anyone else in the history of the NFL and he'll be a great addition to the Broncos. However, check back in about a dozen years to see who has more Super Bowl rings, Peyton Manning or Tim Tebow. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. In the last 5 years, Peyton Manning lead teams have mostly fallen short of expectations in the playoffs. The small sample size with Tim Tebow lead playoff teams have shown that they've far exceeded expectations in spite of how "ugly" at times the quarterback play may have looked.

FOOTBALL IS NOT TENNIS! My God, you people love simplifying complicated ****.

El Minion
03-19-2012, 04:33 PM
Peyton Manning is absolutely ABSOLUTELY in that group. He dragged some crappy teams deep in the playoffs and to a super bowl for years. He WAS that team.

2008 Pats - 11-5 with Matt Cassell
2011 Colts - Worst team in the league.

Keep repeating this every time when the insufferable a$$hole patriot fan and Belicheat apologist brings up that Brady is the GOAT. He isn't.

Transpose Manning and Brady and Manning gets 5 rings possibly 6 rings but I think Peyton and Eli split because that NYG D in 2008 SB was masterful. Brady gets no rings on those Colts teams.

Gort
03-19-2012, 04:34 PM
There isnt...but they are all in that conversation. Anyone who says otherwise is letting hate cloud their judgment. And i dont know why there is Manning hate. What has he ever done thats that objectionable? Funny commercials?


for a true Broncos fan, this is sufficient.

2003 playoffs

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=240104011

2004 playoffs

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=250109011

SonOfLe-loLang
03-19-2012, 04:35 PM
for a true Broncos fan, this is sufficient.

2003 playoffs

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=240104011

2004 playoffs

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=250109011

that should make you love him more. Now that guy who ****ing shredded us is our guy! He's always been a class act. I dont know why you hate him because hes really good.

barryr
03-19-2012, 04:36 PM
Oh boy, we here go with the double standards.

It has been stated by many that Tebow's stats are especially bad because it is much easier to pass the ball in today's NFL, so one could not compare Elway's stats when he first came to the NFL because the NFL back then was much more difficult to pass, though guys like Marino and Montana didn't seem to have so many issues.

So then how can it be stated logically Manning is be a better QB than Marino when he played at a time when it was "easier" to pass? Seems the argument changes to fit predetermined opinions.

Gort
03-19-2012, 04:39 PM
that should make you love him more. Now that guy who ****ing shredded us is our guy! He's always been a class act. I dont know why you hate him because hes really good.

so i should LOVE Rapistburger because he beat us in the 2005 AFCCG if we one day sign him?

or i should LOVE Marmalard because of those 4 or 5 blowouts we've suffered at the hands of the Sandy Eggo Sparklers in the past few years if we one day sign him?

not sure if serious (can't be bothered to link an pic either).

i will admit that Manning has mostly been a class act. i'm not saying it's impossible for him to win me over. i'm just saying that up until now, i have alot of reasons not to like the guy and only 1 reason to like him (when he wanted to sport high tops in honor of Unitas when Unitas passed away).

Turd_Ferguson
03-19-2012, 04:42 PM
I believe a lot of people were saying Tebow was a highly talented QB of the future and that people around here might as well get used to it because Manning isn't coming here and Tebow ain't going anywhere......

That was false.

SonOfLe-loLang
03-19-2012, 04:48 PM
so i should LOVE Rapistburger because he beat us in the 2005 AFCCG if we one day sign him?

or i should LOVE Marmalard because of those 4 or 5 blowouts we've suffered at the hands of the Sandy Eggo Sparklers in the past few years if we one day sign him?

not sure if serious (can't be bothered to link an pic either).

i will admit that Manning has mostly been a class act. i'm not saying it's impossible for him to win me over. i'm just saying that up until now, i have alot of reasons not to like the guy and only 1 reason to like him (when he wanted to sport high tops in honor of Unitas when Unitas passed away).

Im personally one of those people who never "hates" athletes despite their despicable backgrounds because I dont know them. I root for the uniform and along with the community that supports them. The pieces are faceless and interchangable. I love em when they are on my side, i dont care for em when they are gone. Thats just the way it is for me.

Its not like we were at war and manning killed my family, yet now is fighting with me. He used to pound on my football team, but now he's my guy.

extralife
03-19-2012, 04:50 PM
tell a Steelers fan that Manning is better than Bradshaw and 10 seconds later you'll be picking your teeth up off the floor. whether you think he was or not isn't the point. the point is that there are alot of people who think he was because in the end, he was 4-0 in superbowls and twice the MVP of the superbowl.

oh, ok, so now we're not talking about WHO IS ACTUALLY BETTER THAN WHO, we are talking about what ****ing idiots think. like you. glad we cleared that up.

frerottenextelway
03-19-2012, 04:53 PM
Is he a "nut hugger" I doubt it, because there's no argument. Manning is good. Tebow fans came out with the whole "youre wrong" element. Thats what made it annoying. Theres no controversy with PM...hes good! everyone knows it. next

He's more of a casual fan. Just making a note.

ColoradoDarin
03-19-2012, 04:55 PM
who was the better HR hitter?

Babe Ruth, who hit tons of HRs in an era where very few others hit HRs...

or Barry Bonds who hit 71 in an era of steroids, small ballparks, and watered-down pitching because of expansion?

it's the same sort of argument. there is no doubt Barry Bonds hit more HRs in a season than Babe Ruth, but it's also not in dispute that Bonds benefited alot from the era in which he played.

Wrong.

The answer is Hank ****ing Aaron.

dsmoot
03-19-2012, 04:57 PM
Shanny's drafts didn't really correspond to Elways 2 SB wins. weren't those in Shanny's 2nd and 3rd years? it was during the Griese and Plummer eras where we saw just how little value he placed on the draft. he got lucky a few picks here and there, but also had some real stinkers. at best, you could say he was mediocre. today's elite teams build their talent and depth through the draft. it takes time. it takes smarts. it takes luck. if you're in the instant gratification game, it also takes too long. that was Shanny's problem. i think possibly somebody in the FO is equally impatient.

i can't root for Manning. i just can't. he's a mercenary. he'll retire as a Colt. he'll go into the HOF as a Colt. i can't forgive him for the playoff blowouts from 2003 and 2004. i can't stand the hand waving and arm flapping he does at the line of scrimmage. most of all, he's the face of a stolen franchise and always will be and i can't root for him because of that. the Colts belong in Baltimore. they were my team as a youngster (the Broncos were #2) and they were stolen in the middle of the night by a drunken lawyer from Chicago, whose own mother called him "the devil". i just can't root for the guy who those toothless cow-tippers in Indy think is the best player in history.

i'll choose to root for Champ. if this big gamble pays off, i'll be happy to see guys like Champ get a ring. that's the most i can do.

Let's clear the record. The Colts were not stolen in the middle of the night. The Colts exodus occurred over a period of over more than 10 years. The Colt fan support started slipping in the early 70's. How do I know? I was born/lived in Baltimore and was a Colt fan from about 65 through 72. I saw it happen first hand. The team was not generating the revenue it needed. I walked up to the box office and bought a ticket to the 1970 Oakland/Baltimore AFC Championship game on game day at ticket value. The Colts went on to the Superbowl and won it all. Would that EVER happen in Denver. NO WAY. Finally, the team was sold to an owner that had no emotional ties to the city. It was a business to the Irsays and they were in it to make money. Baltimore did not provide the income or fan support (money/gate receipts) other places could.

I was not surprised at all when the truck pulled out in the middle of the night in 1983. The same thing happened to Orioles in the late 60's to early 70's. They struggled to draw at the gate with teams that went to 4 World Series in 6 years. The Bullets left Baltimore for an area closer to DC, why? Money.

I still love the legacy of those Colt teams from the late 50's through the mid 70's. They had great teams, a number of Hall of Famers and players who identified themselves with the City of Baltimore far beyond their playing days. The only travesty of that middle of the night move from Baltimore was that the city was not smart enough to petition the NFL for the Colt name, logo and colors like the Browns.

Gort
03-19-2012, 05:06 PM
Let's clear the record. The Colts were not stolen in the middle of the night. The Colts exodus occurred over a period of over more than 10 years. The Colt fan support started slipping in the early 70's. How do I know? I was born/lived in Baltimore and was a Colt fan from about 65 through 72. I saw it happen first hand. The team was not generating the revenue it needed. I walked up to the box office and bought a ticket to the 1970 Oakland/Baltimore AFC Championship game on game day at ticket value. The Colts went on to the Superbowl and won it all. Would that EVER happen in Denver. NO WAY. Finally, the team was sold to an owner that had no emotional ties to the city. It was a business to the Irsays and they were in it to make money. Baltimore did not provide the income or fan support (money/gate receipts) other places could.

I was not surprised at all when the truck pulled out in the middle of the night in 1983. The same thing happened to Orioles in the late 60's to early 70's. They struggled to draw at the gate with teams that went to 4 World Series in 6 years. The Bullets left Baltimore for an area closer to DC, why? Money.

I still love the legacy of those Colt teams from the late 50's through the mid 70's. They had great teams, a number of Hall of Famers and players who identified themselves with the City of Baltimore far beyond their playing days. The only travesty of that middle of the night move from Baltimore was that the city was not smart enough to petition the NFL for the Colt name, logo and colors like the Browns.

i was born and raised there too. i was there when it happened. it is a fact that Irsay said he was not in discussions with another city to move the team, and then did so in the middle of the night. there are many reasons it happened, not least of which was the stupid actions of the democRAT machine politicians in Baltimore City to try and confiscate the team by eminent domain. but the team was taken out by mayflower vans in the middle of the night without even notifying the NFL league office. the league would not have allowed it and you couldn't pull that same move today. Irsay Sr. always wanted to move the team close to Chicago. the Colts were cursed in that Rosenbloom traded franchises with that drunken Chicago lawyer in the early 70's.

houghtam
03-19-2012, 05:07 PM
Wrong.

The answer is Hank ****ing Aaron.

LOL

Ruth averaged almost 10 home runs per season more than Aaron did, and did so in an era where if you added up 90% of the league's home runs, it wouldn't equal the number he had.

Gort
03-19-2012, 05:08 PM
This message is hidden because extralife is a felcher.

this.

Gort
03-19-2012, 05:10 PM
Im personally one of those people who never "hates" athletes despite their despicable backgrounds because I dont know them. I root for the uniform and along with the community that supports them. The pieces are faceless and interchangable. I love em when they are on my side, i dont care for em when they are gone. Thats just the way it is for me.

Its not like we were at war and manning killed my family, yet now is fighting with me. He used to pound on my football team, but now he's my guy.

what about Vick?

SonOfLe-loLang
03-19-2012, 05:11 PM
what about Vick?

Same thing.

I might not necessarily be friends with Michael Vick because of his past actions, but I'd be happy if he was helping the broncos win games.

I just dont separate the two. If that makes me a bad person, so be it. I dont know any of them.

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 05:12 PM
Is he a "nut hugger" I doubt it, because there's no argument. Manning is good. Tebow fans came out with the whole "youre wrong" element. Thats what made it annoying. Theres no controversy with PM...hes good! everyone knows it. next

So if Tebow goes elsewhere and looks good, we can start calling you a Colts fan.

Gort
03-19-2012, 05:14 PM
If that makes me a bad person, so be it.

it does. very, very bad.

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs4/1416779_o.gif

ScottXray
03-19-2012, 05:17 PM
Why hasn't the FO delt with Tebow in a similarly professional manner? Twice telling him he's the guy, twice bailing on him as soon as the opportunity arose.

You can pat them on the back all you want right now because Elway got his guy, but lets not start sugar coating this and act like this organization is all class. Not after how they've treated one of the nicest, classiest, most honest young professional athletes we've ever seen.

I have to agree with this, and I have to eat my crow on them actually signing him. I thought it was Manning screwing us over ( the contract still might be awful) and that they were getting played. I was wrong.

So kudos to Elway and co. on doing the right thing with Manning, but shame on them for not keeping Tebow informed along the way.

However, if this ends badly and Tebow goes on to shine for another organisation it may look different in a few years. Hindsight can be a bitch.

RaiderH8r
03-19-2012, 05:23 PM
tell a Steelers fan that Manning is better than Bradshaw and 10 seconds later you'll be picking your teeth up off the floor. whether you think he was or not isn't the point. the point is that there are alot of people who think he was because in the end, he was 4-0 in superbowls and twice the MVP of the superbowl.

Stealers fans suck dong by choice and Elway, Manning, Marino, Fouts, Staubach, Starr and many others rank higher than that simpering windbag Bradshaw.

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 05:24 PM
There isnt...but they are all in that conversation. Anyone who says otherwise is letting hate cloud their judgment. And i dont know why there is Manning hate. What has he ever done thats that objectionable? Funny commercials?

Someone was talking **** about Marino not being in the same league. That's where I call bull****.

gunns
03-19-2012, 05:29 PM
I think you've read too far into what has been said if you think they've told him even once "he's the guy."




I guess this is a matter of opinion. I've never believed that the Broncos should promise Tebow anything except a chance to compete. The Broncos have always offered that, and no more. True, he was told he would be the starter going into camp this year - but they also told him that they'd be going after two other quarterbacks to compete. Nobody in February knew that Peyton Manning would be available free and clear.

I think the Broncos have handled this situation as well as anyone could have. I don't honestly know what more you could have expected from them.

Exactly, he was told he would be the starter going into the season which means at the beginning of training camp. No one envisioned this at the end of the season. Bud Adams addressed this in his statement today and thanked his two QB's for being class acts and they are as wanted as ever.

Now there have been rumors that Tebow wants to be traded. I've taken it as just that, a rumor. I do believe he's a class act, and should have no problem coexisting with Manning. He's got two of the very best to coach him. I'm one that does not believe he will ever be a great QB, but he's a great guy and I hope he stays. What it comes down to is this is a business, not a feel good retreat.

houghtam
03-19-2012, 05:40 PM
What it comes down to is this is a business, not a feel good retreat.

You're absolutely right about that. In that sense, there are many consumers who are unhappy about the way the company they buy products from is being run.

barryr
03-19-2012, 05:46 PM
So this is a "business" and the Broncos would keep something they don't want because....? How keeping Tebow around making sense to people is just beyond me. Most agreed Tebow had to get reps this offseason to help his development, but that isn't happening with Manning needing them all for the new offense. And no way do I see Elway spending time with a backup QB this summer to work on anything either. It is best for both the Broncos and Tebow to part ways since neither gains a thing staying together.

Drunken.Broncoholic
03-19-2012, 05:46 PM
You're absolutely right about that. In that sense, there are many consumers who are unhappy about the way the company they buy products from is being run.

Nobody is forcing them to be fans. They can't jump ship anytime. Packer fans were upset at their FO. Turned out good for them.

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 06:01 PM
You're absolutely right about that. In that sense, there are many consumers who are unhappy about the way the company they buy products from is being run.

Nah, **** the business ****. Just had the conversation with my son. Went about as well as I expected.

**** Elway. Almost wish he'd been traded in '85 just so I didn't drag my son through this.

extralife
03-19-2012, 06:02 PM
wait, did you just get owned by your son too?

ROFL!

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 06:03 PM
wait, did you just get owned by your son too?

**** you

extralife
03-19-2012, 06:03 PM
ahahahahaha

dsmoot
03-19-2012, 06:04 PM
i was born and raised there too. i was there when it happened. it is a fact that Irsay said he was not in discussions with another city to move the team, and then did so in the middle of the night. there are many reasons it happened, not least of which was the stupid actions of the democRAT machine politicians in Baltimore City to try and confiscate the team by eminent domain. but the team was taken out by mayflower vans in the middle of the night without even notifying the NFL league office. the league would not have allowed it and you couldn't pull that same move today. Irsay Sr. always wanted to move the team close to Chicago. the Colts were cursed in that Rosenbloom traded franchises with that drunken Chicago lawyer in the early 70's.

I respect what you said and the fact that the van left at night. I will standby my belief that support for Baltimore sports teams at that time was not good even in the middle of a highly successful time. Baltimore was slipping economically during that time with layoffs occurring at the steel mills and other manufacturing based industries which had been behind the city's growth in the early 1900's. The city itself was in an infrastructure mess that was an embarrassment until they finally revitalized the inner harbor area. Some of these very situations led my family west to Colorado. If it had been a cash acceptable situation, even the evil Irsay's would not have moved that team just to be nearer to Chicago. Rosenbloom had no ties to Baltimore but he did trade teams (why?) rather than leave the city.

Funny you should mention the democratic politicians in Baltimore during that time. Spiro Agnew was a Baltimore County Commissioner (crook) where I lived. The D'Alesandro family ran the city and then fathered another incompetent politician with far more negative impact on all of us --- Nancy Pelosi.

houghtam
03-19-2012, 06:04 PM
Nah, **** the business ****. Just had the conversation with my son. Went about as well as I expected.

**** Elway. Almost wish he'd been traded in '85 just so I didn't drag my son through this.

In some ways I do not envy you. My son is only two, so I don't have to have that talk with him. I just will have to miss hearing him yell "TEE-TOW!!" on my own.

extralife
03-19-2012, 06:04 PM
"so yeah, we were just eating dinner and then the crazy old man started crying and screaming about how there's only one quarterback for this household and if I don't like it I can find the door. I don't know, I think we need to take him somewhere."

houghtam
03-19-2012, 06:05 PM
"so yeah, we were just eating dinner and then the crazy old man started crying and screaming about how there's only one quarterback for this household and if I don't like it I can find the door. I don't know, I think we need to take him somewhere."

Do you know how to read?

extralife
03-19-2012, 06:07 PM
::grave voice:: "son. it's time we have the most important conversation of your life. in the NFL, sometimes a team doesn't like a player as much as another player, and so they send him to the big team in the sky. I'd use sock puppets to illustrate it, but I think you're old enough to learn how to be a man now. don't worry, we'll get through this together. now give me the tebow jersey, your sister's car wasn't ****ing cheap."

yerner
03-19-2012, 06:11 PM
Nah, **** the business ****. Just had the conversation with my son. Went about as well as I expected.

**** Elway. Almost wish he'd been traded in '85 just so I didn't drag my son through this.

Grow up.

Pseudofool
03-19-2012, 06:14 PM
The notion that the Broncos somehow should have shown more class toward Tebow or were disingenuous with their _tepid_ endorsement of Tebow at the season's end is foolhardy. Tebow, and his people, have always known that when McDaniels was fired, the organization view of Tebow was likely cynical--and the Broncos have been publicly careful NOT to throw their weight behind Tebow, even when it was popular to do so.

errand
03-19-2012, 06:26 PM
agreed TJ

it is funny to me that the thought of how we are treating TT is more important than our organization trying to make us a good team


Well consider the source....keep in mind, it's not Tebow saying this bull****...he has alot of class, and was raised better than that....his nuthugging fans? Not so much.....you're hearing all the anti-Elway crap because Tebow's groupies are butthurt......

It's gonna be funny watching these same clowns trying to climb onto the wagon about 6-7 games into the Manning era in Denver.

Hulamau
03-19-2012, 06:28 PM
Another piece of evidence showing the professionalism of our front office - despite the perceptions around here.

When you step back and look at everything Elway has accomplished since he's been here - from the coach hiring, the free agents, the drafting, the handling of the very dicey Tebow situation, and now the signing of Peyton Manning - I don't know how you can't give them their due. If anything, Elway is showing he's got a steady hand and is up to the task.

100% Agree! we are very lucky, the panic girls around here notwithstanding.

Cito Pelon
03-19-2012, 06:28 PM
I guess most people think Manning is the savior, gonna take us to the promised land, Elway counted coup. Well, we'll see.

CEH
03-19-2012, 06:29 PM
Champ Bailiey is grinning ear to ear right now. He realized there is no 5 year plans. If there were ,Bailey would have went somewhere else last year but he knows things can change in a hurry in the NFL. A year after signing his new contract he's been to the playoffs again and in his words has that "franchise QB" now

MVP-06
03-19-2012, 06:30 PM
24 hrs ago I was defending EFX on this very board. People were asking for their heads on a platter. patience is a virtue, congrats guys on a huge step. Now go fill those holes that everyone has been demanding. Sure is going to be nice going into talks being able to say we got Peyton Manning! GO BRONCOS!!!

Smilin Assassin
03-19-2012, 06:33 PM
I guess most people think Manning is the savior, gonna take us to the promised land, Elway counted coup. Well, we'll see.


How DARE they be optimistic!

To sign a future HOF'er AND spring is here? Will it never end!

Cito Pelon
03-19-2012, 06:41 PM
How DARE they be optimistic!

To sign a future HOF'er AND spring is here? Will it never end!

Eeyore I am.

Taco John
03-19-2012, 07:18 PM
Eeyore I am.

http://i.imgur.com/BothH.jpg

Garcia Bronco
03-19-2012, 07:24 PM
Nah, **** the business ****. Just had the conversation with my son. Went about as well as I expected.

**** Elway. Almost wish he'd been traded in '85 just so I didn't drag my son through this.

Don't use free agent football as a source of role models.

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 07:30 PM
Don't use free agent football as a source of role models.

TT is a role model. PM is collecting a paycheck.

Taco John
03-19-2012, 07:34 PM
Yeah, my son was pretty disappointed about this too. I explained it to him using Pokemon, and he got it though. He's looking forward to seeing Manning play this year when I take him to his first game at the stadium on a father son pilgrimmage.

Blueflame
03-19-2012, 07:36 PM
A question to ponder... Has anyone from the Broncos' FO called Walton to inform him that they're considering pursuing a center? Is anyone outraged at the idea that they might not have asked for Walton's permission to talk to Saturday?

barryr
03-19-2012, 07:38 PM
A question to ponder... Has anyone from the Broncos' FO called Walton to inform him that they're considering pursuing a center? Is anyone outraged at the idea that they might not have asked for Walton's permission to talk to Saturday?

Someone else tried this lame joke already.

RaiderH8r
03-19-2012, 07:42 PM
A question to ponder... Has anyone from the Broncos' FO called Walton to inform him that they're considering pursuing a center? Is anyone outraged at the idea that they might not have asked for Walton's permission to talk to Saturday?

No because Walton sucks. I would call him and tell him I would give him a reference for a job at King Sooper's or if he wants to work the cell phone game I know a dude that manages a place and could probably start him out in a mall kiosk.

Fact is OL labor in obscurity...until they f up and Walton's name is way too well known to be an effective OL. ;D

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 07:43 PM
No because Walton sucks. I would call him and tell him I would give him a reference for a job at King Sooper's or if he wants to work the cell phone game I know a dude that manages a place and could probably start him out in a mall kiosk.

Fact is OL labor in obscurity...until they f up and Walton's name is way too well known to be an effective OL. ;D

Give it up. In BF/Errand circles, Walton=Tebow.

That's why they don't deserve him.

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 07:45 PM
Yeah, my son was pretty disappointed about this too. I explained it to him using Pokemon, and he got it though. He's looking forward to seeing Manning play this year when I take him to his first game at the stadium on a father son pilgrimmage.

Make sure you tell him at his first game that that guy he's rooting and jumping up and down for probably won't be there next year. Then tell me how the Pokemon **** worked out.

theAPAOps5
03-19-2012, 07:48 PM
Make sure you tell him at his first game that that guy he's rooting and jumping up and down for probably won't be there next year. Then tell me how the Pokemon **** worked out.

LOUD NOISES!

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 07:48 PM
LOUD NOISES!

I'm angry. Sorry man.

enjolras
03-19-2012, 07:49 PM
Give it up. In BF/Errand circles, Walton=Tebow.

That's why they don't deserve him.

I...can...not...wait... for you people to be gone.

Taco John
03-19-2012, 07:51 PM
Make sure you tell him at his first game that that guy he's rooting and jumping up and down for probably won't be there next year. Then tell me how the Pokemon **** worked out.


A picture and song to soothe the pain...

http://i.imgur.com/IAqiw.jpg

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/BO_g5Ocr4K0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Blueflame
03-19-2012, 07:51 PM
Give it up. In BF/Errand circles, Walton=Tebow.

That's why they don't deserve him.

Meh. They both came from the same draft class and both were starting players last season.

The whole concept of a front office being expected to run it past a player first before seeking an upgrade is absurd.

Taco John
03-19-2012, 07:52 PM
I love Julie London...

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 07:52 PM
A picture and song to soothe the pain...

http://i.imgur.com/IAqiw.jpg

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/BO_g5Ocr4K0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

You remind me of my friend who swore to god he'd quit being a Vikings fan if Brett Favre ever became one.

Then came the #4 Jersey.

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 07:53 PM
Meh. They both came from the same draft class and both were starting players last season.

The whole concept of a front office being expected to run it past a player first before seeking an upgrade is absurd.

Some manage it. Others are the Cleveland Browns. Enjoy.

bowtown
03-19-2012, 07:53 PM
Personally I'm most excited for the first time Elway steps to the podium and officially welcomes Daylon Manding to the Broncos.

theAPAOps5
03-19-2012, 07:55 PM
Personally I'm most excited for the first time Elway steps to the podium and officially welcomes Daylon Manding to the Broncos.

And says welcome to 5478 errrr 532mile high

Abqbronco
03-19-2012, 08:04 PM
Nah, **** the business ****. Just had the conversation with my son. Went about as well as I expected.

**** Elway. Almost wish he'd been traded in '85 just so I didn't drag my son through this.

You made my brain hurt.

Blueflame
03-19-2012, 08:04 PM
Some manage it. Others are the Cleveland Browns. Enjoy.

And some like upgrading the team regardless of whether or not the player who will be moving down the depth chart... is butthurt over it. If any player... in the position of possibly being replaced by a clearly better player... gets their feelings hurt, they need to realize the NFL is a business and deal with it.

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 08:05 PM
And some like upgrading the team regardless of whether or not the player who will be moving down the depth chart... is butthurt over it. If any player... in the position of possibly being replaced by a clearly better player... gets their feelings hurt, they need to realize the NFL is a business and deal with it.

It's almost like you've been ignoring this FA season.

Blueflame
03-19-2012, 08:08 PM
It's almost like you've been ignoring this FA season.

Not at all... it's been interesting watching it all play out.

errand
03-19-2012, 08:10 PM
How you treat your current players is every bit as (if not more) important as how you treat your prospects.

Hard to build a sense of team or any kind of loyalty if you treat your players like commodities.

Never occurred to you that by signing Manning, the FO showed the entire team how much they care about and respect them by signing a real QB, who will make this team better, and gives them all a better chance to accomplish their #1 goal of getting a ring...

Rohirrim
03-19-2012, 08:12 PM
Nah, **** the business ****. Just had the conversation with my son. Went about as well as I expected.

**** Elway. Almost wish he'd been traded in '85 just so I didn't drag my son through this.

Hilarious!

Some of these threads are priceless.

Broncos make one of the biggest FA grabs in history and a bunch of pissants go all negatron. What a joke.

It's time to party!

barryr
03-19-2012, 08:14 PM
And some like upgrading the team regardless of whether or not the player who will be moving down the depth chart... is butthurt over it. If any player... in the position of possibly being replaced by a clearly better player... gets their feelings hurt, they need to realize the NFL is a business and deal with it.

Somehow the Titans found the time to inform both Hasselbeck and Locker that they were planning to go after Manning and are ok with things apparently. The Broncos told Tebow he was the starter going into TC and bringing in some competition in camp, but was not told about Manning until everyone else knew and Manning would not be signed to simply "compete" for the job. It is too bad you can not understand the difference and obviously the Broncos know the difference, as does Tebow, since they know they can no longer tell Tebow anything without him wondering if it's more BS and so they have to trade him even if they loved the guy. Comparing that to Walton, whom I doubt was told a thing about being the starter next year, was ridiculous.

theAPAOps5
03-19-2012, 08:19 PM
Hilarious!

Some of these threads are priceless.

Broncos make one of the biggest FA grabs in history and a bunch of pissants go all negatron. What a joke.

It's time to party!

Well BroncBow and MacGruder are banned, someone has to carry the torch.

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 08:21 PM
Hilarious!

Some of these threads are priceless.

Broncos make one of the biggest FA grabs in history and a bunch of pissants go all negatron. What a joke.

It's time to party!

If you'd seen my son's face, you'd think differently. It was like a time machine back to my own childhood. Sad day for me.

Requiem
03-19-2012, 08:22 PM
Yeah nobody cares that you two cried today. GTFO.

Garcia Bronco
03-19-2012, 08:28 PM
TT is a role model. PM is collecting a paycheck.

I disagree on Manning.

I agree he's a role model, but obviously you have it wrapped up as being the Bronco QB. That's cool, but with free agency it's a false idol. It rarely pays off.

Blueflame
03-19-2012, 08:36 PM
Somehow the Titans found the time to inform both Hasselbeck and Locker that they were planning to go after Manning and are ok with things apparently. The Broncos told Tebow he was the starter going into TC and bringing in some competition in camp, but was not told about Manning until everyone else knew and Manning would not be signed to simply "compete" for the job. It is too bad you can not understand the difference and obviously the Broncos know the difference, as does Tebow, since they know they can no longer tell Tebow anything without him wondering if it's more BS and so they have to trade him even if they loved the guy. Comparing that to Walton, whom I doubt was told a thing about being the starter next year, was ridiculous.

Ultimately, what does it matter whether Hasselbeck & Locker were told or not, Barry? It doesn't. And it doesn't matter with Tebow either because it's not like he has the slightest chance of winning a training camp competition with Peyton Manning. Yet... any time the opportunity to acquire a FA of that caliber presents itself, you have to take the chance and roll the dice.

No one asked Elway (last January) whether or not Walton would be the starter going into training camp... but if they had, Walton (being the best option we had on the roster at the time) would have been the answer Elway would have given. It's all silly (the idea that players must be informed if the club is considering interviewing a better player who plays their position) and wouldn't come up for any player not named "Tebow".

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 08:38 PM
Ultimately, what does it matter whether Hasselbeck & Locker were told or not, Barry? It doesn't. And it doesn't matter with Tebow either because it's not like he has the slightest chance of winning a training camp competition with Peyton Manning. Yet... any time the opportunity to acquire a FA of that caliber presents itself, you have to take the chance and roll the dice.

No one asked Elway (last January) whether or not Walton would be the starter going into training camp... but if they had, Walton (being the best option we had on the roster at the time) would have been the answer Elway would have given. It's all silly (the idea that players must be informed if the club is considering interviewing a better player who plays their position) and wouldn't come up for any player not named "Tebow".

Translation: I'm wrong, but I'm going to blow ****loads of smoke to act like I'm right. And that really was Errand's wife!

Blueflame
03-19-2012, 08:43 PM
Translation: I'm wrong, but I'm going to blow ****loads of smoke to act like I'm right. And that really was Errand's wife!

Except that I'm not wrong; today's decision was difficult for you to accept but I think you'll eventually come around once you get over your temper tantrum.

And that was Errand's wife.

DENVERDUI55
03-19-2012, 09:21 PM
If you'd seen my son's face, you'd think differently. It was like a time machine back to my own childhood. Sad day for me.

Take him to do something instead of whining over tebow on the net all day.

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 09:55 PM
Except that I'm not wrong; today's decision was difficult for you to accept but I think you'll eventually come around once you get over your temper tantrum.

And that was Errand's wife.

Yeah, because people often talk smack about other people's wives next to a picture of their own.

And all Peyton Manning doez is win Lombardeeeeeez!

EFX love fans like you.

Blueflame
03-19-2012, 10:02 PM
Yeah, because people often talk smack about other people's wives next to a picture of their own.

And all Peyton Manning doez is win Lombardeeeeeez!

EFX love fans like you.

Peyton Manning is a quality FA addition and I'm glad we have him.

Go Broncos!

hookemhess
03-19-2012, 10:08 PM
Well BroncBow and MacGruder are banned, someone has to carry the torch.

Can we please un-ban them? I really want to taste MacGruder's tears.

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 10:10 PM
Peyton Manning is a quality FA addition and I'm glad we have him.

Go Broncos!

Take it to your favorite Raiders board. At least they'll appreciate us paying $95 million for a 36 year old QB who missed last year with 4 neck surgeries.

You do Big Al proud.

Blueflame
03-19-2012, 10:15 PM
Take it to your favorite Raiders board. At least they'll appreciate us paying $95 million for a 36 year old QB who missed last year with 4 neck surgeries.

You do Big Al proud.

Y'know, launching personal attacks on other posters isn't going to undo Manning's/EFX's decisions. It won't accomplish anything other than to make you look like a butthurt whiner.

extralife
03-19-2012, 10:18 PM
so who had beavis in the "first meltdown" pool?

oh, right: everyone

then again I don't think anyone thought he'd go the MY SON IS CRYING WHEN TEBOW WAS HERE I FORCED HIM TO LOVE TEBOW AS MUCH AS I LOVED TEBOW BECAUSE MY SON IS WHERE I PROJECT MYSELF AND NOW HE IS GONE HE IS DEAD route

SonOfLe-loLang
03-19-2012, 10:24 PM
Eeyore I am.

Eeyore was pessimistic because he wanted to be loved. Not just to be a dissenter.

One of the most misunderstood characters of our time. That eeyore

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 10:25 PM
Y'know, launching personal attacks on other posters isn't going to undo Manning's/EFX's decisions. It won't accomplish anything other than to make you look like a butthurt whiner.

Almost like a Tebow hater on a Raiders board, when you think about it.

Turd_Ferguson
03-19-2012, 10:29 PM
If you'd seen my son's face, you'd think differently. It was like a time machine back to my own childhood. Sad day for me.

You and your son should be a Browns or Chiefs fan... They never get rid of ****ty QBs. You and your son would never have to cry like a couple of little girls again when your favorite team replaced your crap QB with a Hall of Fame one.

Blueflame
03-19-2012, 10:29 PM
Almost like a Tebow hater on a Raiders board, when you think about it.

Hey, I'm perfectly ok with the fact that you liked Tebow... not quite sure why you're not ok with the fact that I didn't. Oh, well. Opinions will vary on a lot of things.

And lashing out at me... or anyone else... still isn't going to change the fact that a new and exciting era has begun for the Broncos. Hopefully it ends with shiny new Lombardi in our trophy case come next February.

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 10:31 PM
Hey, I'm perfectly ok with the fact that you liked Tebow... not quite sure why you're not ok with the fact that I didn't. Oh, well. Opinions will vary on a lot of things.

And lashing out at me... or anyone else... still isn't going to change the fact that a new and exciting era has begun for the Broncos. Hopefully it ends with shiny new Lombardi in our trophy case come next February.

Uh, because you took it to a Raiders board and talked ****. And you turn a blind eye to people of your own bull**** perspective harassing other users and outright lying in order to get other users banned.

Blueflame
03-19-2012, 10:39 PM
Uh, because you took it to a Raiders board and talked ****. And you turn a blind eye to people of your own bull**** perspective harassing other users and outright lying in order to get other users banned.

And why wouldn't I express my own opinions (as opposed to... say, yours) wherever I might be when someone asks what "I" think? Someone asked in the grocery store today what I thought of the Manning signing... should I have given him "your" opinion instead of mine?

No one has been banned based on lies.

Sassy
03-19-2012, 10:59 PM
Hey, I'm perfectly ok with the fact that you liked Tebow... not quite sure why you're not ok with the fact that I didn't. Oh, well. Opinions will vary on a lot of things.

And lashing out at me... or anyone else... still isn't going to change the fact that a new and exciting era has begun for the Broncos. Hopefully it ends with shiny new Lombardi in our trophy case come next February.

;D

and see you on FB...

errand
03-19-2012, 11:02 PM
Marino
Kelly
Elway
Montana
Young
Unitas
Bradshaw

and a few others all beg to differ.

Manning is not GOAT. Manning is not top 5. Manning is one of the best of his generation, but that generation has had rules in place that catered to protecting the QB and receivers and overwhelmingly favored a passing offense over everything else. Manning has also benefitted from officiating that gives him the benefit of the doubt. when Manning wants a flag thrown, he gets a flag thrown.

it's not even clear that Manning will be considered better than Brady in this generation, or even his younger brother at this point. alot of empty passing yards with only 1 Lombardi to show for it is going to be hard to argue if Brady retires with 5 or 6 Lombardis.

Gotta love how two of the guys you list as being "better" than Manning have never won a SB (Marino, Kelly) and two more have the same number of SB wins (Unitas, Young)....


Poking fun at him for having fewer SB wins than Brady is like saying Elway wasn't as good as Montana because he has 4 wins to Elway's 2.

So Manning may or may not be his generation's best....big deal. He's better than any QB we've had since Elway, and makes us a better team....we just went from 75-1 odds of winning SB to 8-1.

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 11:04 PM
And why wouldn't I express my own opinions (as opposed to... say, yours) wherever I might be when someone asks what "I" think? Someone asked in the grocery store today what I thought of the Manning signing... should I have given him "your" opinion instead of mine?

No one has been banned based on lies.

Most Broncos fans when crossing a Raiders fan would say "Raiders suck" (if anything)

It's only the "special" ones would cross a Raiders fan and say "Tebow sucks"

Except in your case you actually sought Raiders fans out in order to say "Tebow sucks". So you and Errand deserve each other.

Drunken.Broncoholic
03-19-2012, 11:11 PM
Raider fans mostly likely drive a mid 90s Honda with a big raider shield on the rear window. Fully equipped with a 40 caliber under the seat. Usually in the Norte blocks.

They frequent Soledad prison and county jail in salinas. They aren't fun.

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 11:14 PM
Raider fans mostly likely drive a mid 90s Honda with a big raider shield on the rear window. Fully equipped with a 40 caliber under the seat. Usually in the Norte blocks.

They frequent Soledad prison and county jail in salinas. They aren't fun.

Blueflame, does that sound accurate?

Blueflame
03-19-2012, 11:14 PM
Most Broncos fans when crossing a Raiders fan would say "Raiders suck" (if anything)

It's only the "special" ones would cross a Raiders fan and say "Tebow sucks"

Except in your case you actually sought Raiders fans out in order to say "Tebow sucks". So you and Errand deserve each other.

You're new here... so of course it's difficult for you to understand online interactions dating back a full decade. I "met" Errand, Max, and RR here on the Mane back in 2001 and we've all been discussing the game in cyberspace ever since. You don't like that? Too bad.

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 11:16 PM
You're new here... so of course it's difficult for you to understand online interactions dating back a full decade. I "met" Errand, Max, and RR here on the Mane back in 2001 and we've all been discussing the game in cyberspace ever since. You don't like that? Too bad.

Wow. No wonder Errand gets special treatment.

Drunken.Broncoholic
03-19-2012, 11:20 PM
You're new here... so of course it's difficult for you to understand online interactions dating back a full decade. I "met" Errand, Max, and RR here on the Mane back in 2001 and we've all been discussing the game in cyberspace ever since. You don't like that? Too bad.

I never said i didnt. I've been part of bronco online communities since the AOL days. I do notice there's more bronco on bronco hate on these pages. I've taken the time to archive posts and see whos who. I see there's Plenty of history here. Beavis knows I'm no tebow fan. He's at least tolerant compared to bozos like macgruder.

Blueflame
03-19-2012, 11:21 PM
Wow. No wonder Errand gets special treatment.

There was no special treatment. A longstanding forum rule was enforced; that's all.

Blueflame
03-19-2012, 11:27 PM
I never said i didnt. I've been part of bronco online communities since the AOL days. I do notice there's more bronco on bronco hate on these pages. I've taken the time to archive posts and see whos who. I see there's Plenty of history here. Beavis knows I'm no tebow fan. He's at least tolerant compared to bozos like macgruder.

My "new here" remark was actually aimed at Beavis. :)

There used to be far less "Broncofan-on-Broncofan" hostility in the older days... 'course then we did have more rival fans too (gang up on them instead of "eating our own"). It seems that so many issues polarize people into "one camp" vs. "another camp" and there's little tolerance of opposing viewpoints; when disagreements happen, namecalling follows with little hesitation.

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 11:30 PM
There was no special treatment. A longstanding forum rule was enforced; that's all.

Except when Errand broke it. Then it was 'whoopsies' we didn't see it until it was "too late"

Drunken.Broncoholic
03-19-2012, 11:32 PM
My "new here" remark was actually aimed at Beavis. :)

There used to be far less "Broncofan-on-Broncofan" hostility in the older days... 'course then we did have more rival fans too (gang up on them instead of "eating our own"). It seems that so many issues polarize people into "one camp" vs. "another camp" and there's little tolerance of opposing viewpoints; when disagreements happen, namecalling follows with little hesitation.

Oops. I Been celebratin with sailor jerry. Posts are fusing together for me. Ha. You just described where Ive been posting the last few years. I saw it escalate when Plummer was replaced. Ever since this fanbase has been split. Makes for a lively board though. Ha

Blueflame
03-19-2012, 11:33 PM
Except when Errand broke it. Then it was 'whoopsies' we didn't see it until it was "too late"

Why are we re-hashing this? It's been explained and nothing will change by revisiting it yet again.

Blueflame
03-19-2012, 11:34 PM
Oops. I Been celebratin with sailor jerry. Posts are fusing together for me. Ha. You just described where Ive been posting the last few years. I saw it escalate when Plummer was replaced. Ever since this fanbase has been split. Makes for a lively board though. Ha

Hell, back in the early days of the Mane, Errand and I used to go back and forth over Gus Frerotte. ;D Ha!

Taco John
03-19-2012, 11:36 PM
Oops. I Been celebratin with sailor jerry. Posts are fusing together for me. Ha. You just described where Ive been posting the last few years. I saw it escalate when Plummer was replaced. Ever since this fanbase has been split. Makes for a lively board though. Ha

That's a pretty good pinpoint of when hostilities started to amplify.

Drunken.Broncoholic
03-19-2012, 11:39 PM
Hell, back in the early days of the Mane, Errand and I used to go back and forth over Gus Frerotte. ;D Ha!

Ha. Good ole Gus. From what I've seen of errands posts they pretty much mirror my opinions about this team.

Drunken.Broncoholic
03-19-2012, 11:41 PM
That's a pretty good pinpoint of when hostilities started to amplify.

I swear I saw Plummer out here in Tahoe in the woods. Playing Frolf.

Blueflame
03-19-2012, 11:47 PM
Ha. Good ole Gus. From what I've seen of errands posts they pretty much mirror my opinions about this team.

Yeah, it kinda started with Gus... then lively debates have ensued over every single QB since. ;D

It's my hope that there won't have to be "open warfare" over Manning... that enough wins (and maybe even a shiny new Lombardi) will result in a more-unified fanbase.

errand
03-19-2012, 11:51 PM
Except when Errand broke it. Then it was 'whoopsies' we didn't see it until it was "too late"

The wife smack I posted was towards a Lions troll....doesn't make it right, but personally I'd understand busting on another team's troll being blasted.....and if I should have been banned I'd have accepted my punishment without whining like your boys did. It's not my fault your boys got caught and I didn't....if TJ wants to retro-ban me, it's ok...Peyton Manning will still be Bronco when I get back

errand
03-19-2012, 11:57 PM
Hell, back in the early days of the Mane, Errand and I used to go back and forth over Gus Frerotte. ;D Ha!

I know....

You and your buddies took my saying "Gus was a very good back-up" and turned it into "Gus is the best ever"...LOL

But I don't recall our arguments about Griese and Frerotte, and Jake having as much venom as these past few weeks have displayed on here

errand
03-20-2012, 12:01 AM
[/LIST]529060]That's a pretty good pinpoint of when hostilities started to amplify.

Kind of ironic how those of us that never saw eye to eye on the QB position have actually agreed on it now....

Blueflame
03-20-2012, 12:11 AM
I know....

You and your buddies took my saying "Gus was a very good back-up" and turned it into "Gus is the best ever"...LOL

But I don't recall our arguments about Griese and Frerotte, and Jake having as much venom as these past few weeks have displayed on here

No... we didn't really launch into ad hominem attacks over differences of opinion back then. I'm still puzzled by the concept that calling the other poster an "idiot" (or worse) in any way strengthens one's debate position or how the "most egregious personal attack" somehow translates into "winning the debate". To me, a person who has any ammo left to discuss the topic at hand... doesn't need to resort to personal attacks and "going there" is a tacit admission that they don't have anything left except deflection.

Broncos4tw
03-20-2012, 06:42 AM
Give it time - true Bronco fans will stick around, and those who had a mancrush on Tebow will probably be worshiping him on whatever team he signs with. Good riddance imo.

I think non-biased fans saw Tebow for what he was. A strong, athletic kid with a lot of spark and drive to win, with rather poor football mechanics, and the inability to play the QB position very well. Poor vision, took forever to unload the ball, run first mentality. You can't teach skill. At this level, you have it, or you don't. He doesn't, and probably never will. His dismal completion rating last year: 46%. Manning's worst year was also his first. At 56%.

Why any real fan would want a FB playing QB over an amazing HOF QB who has a real shot at making the SB in his declining years boggles the mind.

Sassy
03-20-2012, 06:45 AM
Give it time - true Bronco fans will stick around, and those who had a mancrush on Tebow will probably be worshiping him on whatever team he signs with. Good riddance imo.

I think non-biased fans saw Tebow for what he was. A strong, athletic kid with a lot of spark and drive to win, with rather poor football mechanics, and the inability to play the QB position very well. Poor vision, took forever to unload the ball, run first mentality. You can't teach skill. At this level, you have it, or you don't. He doesn't, and probably never will. His dismal completion rating last year: 46%. Manning's worst year was also his first. At 56%.

Why any real fan would want a FB playing QB over an amazing HOF QB who has a real shot at making the SB in his declining years boggles the mind.

I tried to say this...got shot down!
Good post.

Sassy
03-20-2012, 06:46 AM
I know....

You and your buddies took my saying "Gus was a very good back-up" and turned it into "Gus is the best ever"...LOL

But I don't recall our arguments about Griese and Frerotte, and Jake having as much venom as these past few weeks have displayed on here

Those were the days! ;D

BroncoBeavis
03-20-2012, 06:49 AM
I tried to say this...got shot down!
Good post.

Sounds just as retarded when he says it. So don't feel too bad.

BroncoBeavis
03-20-2012, 06:53 AM
That's a pretty good pinpoint of when hostilities started to amplify.

Sounds plausible. It was the death of loyalty when it comes to winning QBs.

Broncos4tw
03-20-2012, 06:56 AM
Sounds just as retarded when he says it. So don't feel too bad.

Right.. because the few vocal, Tebow-loving fanatics are all correct in their assessment of his abilities and possibility to grow into a pro NFL QB, while the entire coaching staff of the Broncos, analysts across the country, and a larger contingent of non-biased actual fans, are all clueless? The sooner you get over your mancrush, the better you'll feel.

What about Tebow makes you think he will be a great QB? I just don't get it. You don't build teams around "potential." If after their rookie year, a player just looks.. bad.. you don't hold on to him for years, hoping for the best.

bendog
03-20-2012, 06:58 AM
ELWAY IS TEARIN G THIS TEAM, YEAH FRANCHISE, YEAH CITY, YEAH WORLD, APART WITH HIS LYING CHEATING HATRED OF WHITE CHRISTAIN MALES. God will act, and you own'
t like it.

houghtam
03-20-2012, 07:08 AM
Give it time - true Bronco fans will stick around, and those who had a mancrush on Tebow will probably be worshiping him on whatever team he signs with. Good riddance imo.

I think non-biased fans saw Tebow for what he was. A strong, athletic kid with a lot of spark and drive to win, with rather poor football mechanics, and the inability to play the QB position very well. Poor vision, took forever to unload the ball, run first mentality. You can't teach skill. At this level, you have it, or you don't. He doesn't, and probably never will. His dismal completion rating last year: 46%. Manning's worst year was also his first. At 56%.

Why any real fan would want a FB playing QB over an amazing HOF QB who has a real shot at making the SB in his declining years boggles the mind.

LOL uh oh here come the fan police! Wee woo wee woo!

Pull over! No, farther over!

Dedhed
03-20-2012, 07:15 AM
You can't teach skill.

That's among the dumbest things I've heard on the Mane. And that's saying something.

Steve Sewell
03-20-2012, 07:16 AM
Why any real fan would want a FB playing QB over an amazing HOF QB who has a real shot at making the SB in his declining years boggles the mind.

There are a lot of low football IQ Tebow fans in the fold here. Can't wait until they're gone, but I suspect some trolls will remain. This forum needs better moderation to combat some of the more obvious trolls such as BroncoBeavis.

Broncos4tw
03-20-2012, 07:35 AM
LOL uh oh here come the fan police! Wee woo wee woo!

Pull over! No, farther over!

I am hardly fan police - you can't deny a slew of "new" fans showed up when Tebow did. This board was home to several. They drooled over Tebow, and are now livid we are getting rid of him. I'm fine with fans who just want the best for the team - unfortunately this board has a lot of people who just want the best for Tebow. Those are not Bronco fans. We are not the Denver Tebows, much to the chagrin of many raging "fans" now.

If an actual Bronco fan is feeling this was a bad signing, that's fine. I don't understand it, but that's fine. Ignore the age of Manning. Just look at his health and his ability to play right now. If his health is fine (and multiple doctors have checked him out, and said, he is fine), and he is playing at a high level, in what way is this a bad signing? Even if all it does is draw in some talent we may have otherwise not gotten, it's a plus. But I think we'll be in the playoffs this year, and probably every year Manning is with us, thanks to our fairly crappy division.

How is this a bad thing? Unless you are a Tebow fanatic..

TonyR
03-20-2012, 07:54 AM
The problem with NFL fans in Denver is that there are Broncos fans and Tebow fans. Both are very passionate and both want to win. But both think very differently.

A Broncos fan wants to see the team win at any cost. If any player on the roster, fan favorite or not, is not the best guy for the job then the Broncos fan just wants the next guy to step in and be better so the team can win games. In this case, the next guy is Peyton Manning and the cost is around $95 million over a five year period.

A Tebow fan wants to see the Broncos win too so long as Tim Tebow is the guy leading the team to victory. It doesn’t matter how ugly or pretty it looks. It doesn’t matter how poor his efficiency is. The only thing that matters is that Tebow is the guy under center. In this case, it turns out Tebow led the Broncos back to the playoffs for the first time in five years and was rewarded with John Elway’s vote of confidence.

“I think Tim has earned the right to be the starting quarterback going into training camp next year,” Elway said. “I think that he made some good strides this year.”

But everything changed when Mr. Elway was seen alongside head coach John Fox giving Peyton Manning a personal tour of Broncos Headquarters at Dove Valley. Elway obviously impressed Manning enough to earn his commitment to play for the Broncos. And for that, the most popular figure in the history of Colorado Sports is being villainized.

http://www.kktv.com/blogs/talksports/Broncos_fans_and_Tebow_fans_Theres_a_difference_Sa m_Farnsworth_143439846.html

rbackfactory80
03-20-2012, 07:55 AM
I am hardly fan police - you can't deny a slew of "new" fans showed up when Tebow did. This board was home to several. They drooled over Tebow, and are now livid we are getting rid of him. I'm fine with fans who just want the best for the team - unfortunately this board has a lot of people who just want the best for Tebow. Those are not Bronco fans. We are not the Denver Tebows, much to the chagrin of many raging "fans" now.

If an actual Bronco fan is feeling this was a bad signing, that's fine. I don't understand it, but that's fine. Ignore the age of Manning. Just look at his health and his ability to play right now. If his health is fine (and multiple doctors have checked him out, and said, he is fine), and he is playing at a high level, in what way is this a bad signing? Even if all it does is draw in some talent we may have otherwise not gotten, it's a plus. But I think we'll be in the playoffs this year, and probably every year Manning is with us, thanks to our fairly crappy division.

How is this a bad thing? Unless you are a Tebow fanatic..

Just because you're a fan of Manning doesn't mean you aren't an a-hole...as evidenced by this thread. All a-holes should go if you know what I'm saying.

BroncoBeavis
03-20-2012, 07:59 AM
There are a lot of low football IQ Tebow fans in the fold here. Can't wait until they're gone, but I suspect some trolls will remain. This forum needs better moderation to combat some of the more obvious trolls such as BroncoBeavis.

Yeah take anything I've said and put it up against "Tim Tebow is a fullback"

Teebhaters have a different definition of troll than everyone else.

Broncos4tw
03-20-2012, 08:00 AM
How am I an a-hole? I want the team to win. I'm a Bronco fan, have always been, will always be. I happen to like Tebow the guy - he is a likable kid, and creates a spark the helps fuel players into winning games. That's great. But I don't think he gives us the best chance to win a SB. Manning currently does. I've probably been like many Bronco fans over the years - hated Manning whenever we had to play him, but respected his ability. Now that he is a Bronco, of course I am a fan of his. But make no mistake, if even he for some reason were to completely choke and dragged the team down with him, I'd want him gone too. Because I am only a temporary fan of players - I'm first and foremost a fan of the team.

bendog
03-20-2012, 08:01 AM
How am I an a-hole? I want the team to win. I'm a Bronco fan, have always been, will always be. I happen to like Tebow the guy - he is a likable kid, and creates a spark the helps fuel players into winning games. That's great. But I don't think he gives us the best chance to win a SB. Manning currently does. I've probably been like many Bronco fans over the years - hated Manning whenever we had to play him, but respected his ability. Now that he is a Bronco, of course I am a fan of his. But make no mistake, if even he for some reason were to completely choke and dragged the team down with him, I'd want him gone too. Because I am only a temporary fan of players - I'm first and foremost a fan of the team.

you aren't the a-hole of whom he spoke. (-:

BroncoBeavis
03-20-2012, 08:02 AM
The problem with NFL fans in Denver is that there are Broncos fans and Tebow fans. Both are very passionate and both want to win. But both think very differently.

A Broncos fan wants to see the team win at any cost. If any player on the roster, fan favorite or not, is not the best guy for the job then the Broncos fan just wants the next guy to step in and be better so the team can win games. In this case, the next guy is Peyton Manning and the cost is around $95 million over a five year period.

A Tebow fan wants to see the Broncos win too so long as Tim Tebow is the guy leading the team to victory. It doesn’t matter how ugly or pretty it looks. It doesn’t matter how poor his efficiency is. The only thing that matters is that Tebow is the guy under center. In this case, it turns out Tebow led the Broncos back to the playoffs for the first time in five years and was rewarded with John Elway’s vote of confidence.

“I think Tim has earned the right to be the starting quarterback going into training camp next year,” Elway said. “I think that he made some good strides this year.”

But everything changed when Mr. Elway was seen alongside head coach John Fox giving Peyton Manning a personal tour of Broncos Headquarters at Dove Valley. Elway obviously impressed Manning enough to earn his commitment to play for the Broncos. And for that, the most popular figure in the history of Colorado Sports is being villainized.

http://www.kktv.com/blogs/talksports/Broncos_fans_and_Tebow_fans_Theres_a_difference_Sa m_Farnsworth_143439846.html

Favre was a better QB than Cutler. Therefore anyone who didn't want Brett was a Jay fan- not a Broncos fan.

See how that works?

bronco militia
03-20-2012, 08:02 AM
That's a pretty good pinpoint of when hostilities started to amplify.

IMO it started with Griese and Brister.

it's all elway fault. ;D

BroncoBeavis
03-20-2012, 08:04 AM
you aren't the a-hole of whom he spoke. (-:

Don't get jealous BD. It's still an open competiton. You've got all offseason :)

rbackfactory80
03-20-2012, 08:07 AM
you aren't the a-hole of whom he spoke. (-:

You're good at this game.

teknic
03-20-2012, 08:08 AM
Honestly, I always had more of a problem with the idiots that hate on Tebow without knowing what they are talking about, than people like MacGruder.

rbackfactory80
03-20-2012, 08:08 AM
Don't get jealous BD. It's still an open competiton. You've got all offseason :)


At least that's what I'll tell them.:D

bendog
03-20-2012, 08:11 AM
you can't hate Tebow. I mean even if you think it more likely that colt mccoy will win a Lombardi, you can't hate Teebs. It'd be like making a crush video with a puppy.

peacepipe
03-20-2012, 08:11 AM
Honestly, I always had more of a problem with the idiots that hate on Tebow without knowing what they are talking about, than people like MacGruder.ironic,considering how little mcgoober knew about football.

Taco John
03-20-2012, 08:12 AM
You remind me of my friend who swore to god he'd quit being a Vikings fan if Brett Favre ever became one.

Then came the #4 Jersey.

No idea how that fits me. Peyton Manning has long been a favorite of mine.