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halfback
03-18-2012, 03:30 PM
Like tittle says, just seen via twitter, WTF seriously

theAPAOps5
03-18-2012, 03:31 PM
As in they shouldn't?

Baba Booey
03-18-2012, 03:33 PM
No McClain then, I'm guessing?

Disappointing.

UberBroncoMan
03-18-2012, 03:33 PM
HHAHAHAHAHAHDHAIDasjlfhasljfhask;lfhas;klfha
;fhsafasf
saf

halfback
03-18-2012, 03:34 PM
No I don't think he should have been resigned, thought the plan was to get better, not impressed

Carmelo15
03-18-2012, 03:34 PM
ugh. I like Joe Mays, but not as a starter. I don't hate the signing as long as he's a backup/special teams guy. I just hope this doesn't mean we're not getting Jameel McClain. Unfortunately, I think it does.

eddie mac
03-18-2012, 03:34 PM
As in they shouldn't?

As in he's a cheap 2 down MLB. They better hope this kid Irving can play.

Drunken.Broncoholic
03-18-2012, 03:36 PM
Mays is a "value" signing. Right on par.

maher_tyler
03-18-2012, 03:36 PM
http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/kingfm.com/files/2011/06/108827680.jpg

SoCalBronco
03-18-2012, 03:38 PM
Ahahahahahahaha

Heyneck
03-18-2012, 03:38 PM
face palm pic? anyone? unless he is signed for a backup role....

theAPAOps5
03-18-2012, 03:40 PM
Sorry should have put some kind of smiley face after mine. I was being sarcastic!

OBF1
03-18-2012, 03:40 PM
http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/kingfm.com/files/2011/06/108827680.jpg

Winning

eddie mac
03-18-2012, 03:42 PM
This signing is that non consequential that not one media/fan outlet even thinks it's worth retweeting. Meanwhile the Bengals re-signed Reggie Nelson, Scheff actually bothered his ass tweeting that one.

DENVERDUI55
03-18-2012, 03:42 PM
Of course nobody else wanted this bum.

eddie mac
03-18-2012, 03:42 PM
Sorry should have put some kind of smiley face after mine. I was being sarcastic!

I knew you were in my boat, the other one's gonna Titanic you know.LOL

cabronco
03-18-2012, 03:42 PM
I would of rather seen Bunkleys name as a guy they resigned, dammit.

eddie mac
03-18-2012, 03:43 PM
It'll be even funnier if they dont bring back Bunkley to make his ass look 1/4 decent.

OBF1
03-18-2012, 03:44 PM
I swear this boat is heading stright for an iceberg.

Agamemnon
03-18-2012, 03:44 PM
I would of rather seen Bunkleys name as a guy they resigned, dammit.

I think we all would. But I fully expect him to walk. Our FO is garbage.

eddie mac
03-18-2012, 03:45 PM
I'm ecstatic, so far we've signed my 165th ranked UFA in Michael Adams and re-sgined the 315th one.

rbackfactory80
03-18-2012, 03:46 PM
Who is the mastermind behind this signing? Elway.

Could have found some more worthwhile scraps in round 7.

eddie mac
03-18-2012, 03:46 PM
I'll be truly shocked if we pony up the $5m-$6m a year Bunkley warrants given the contracts dished out to Soliai and Langford.

houghtam
03-18-2012, 03:46 PM
One of these days a passing ship is going to spot these life rafts.

FYP

Agamemnon
03-18-2012, 03:48 PM
I'll be truly shocked if we pony up the $5m-$6m a year Bunkley warrants given the contracts dished out to Soliai and Langford.

As will I. God this upcoming season is looking like it's going to be a catastrophe...

UberBroncoMan
03-18-2012, 03:50 PM
As will I. God this upcoming season is looking like it's going to be a catastrophe...

Oh it will be. I think our schedule difficulty is top 3.

Good ****ing luck.

SimonFletcher73
03-18-2012, 03:50 PM
John must think he's still running the Colorado Crush.

MABroncoFan
03-18-2012, 03:52 PM
Cecil Lammey‏@cecillammeyReply


with Joe Mays signing with the #broncos it likely puts an end to my dream of Jameel McClain playing here #sadbanana https://twitter.com/#!/Denver_Broncos/status/181507064684740609

Agamemnon
03-18-2012, 03:52 PM
Oh it will be. I think our schedule difficulty is top 3.

Good ****ing luck.

So at this point it all hinges on whether or not we can get Manning. Excellent team management there...

MABroncoFan
03-18-2012, 04:00 PM
If we don't get Manning, looks like we won't be getting any difference makers in FA. Hopefully don't lose Bunkley to boot ... probably the best DT available.

Agamemnon
03-18-2012, 04:03 PM
If we don't get Manning, looks like we won't be getting any difference makers in FA. Hopefully don't lose Bunkley to boot ... probably the best DT available.

And really, why would Manning want to sign with us when we have completely failed to upgrade our roster so far this free agency period? I mean we are clearly the least talented of the teams in the running for his services, and we've done nothing to improve that. Am I missing something here?

MABroncoFan
03-18-2012, 04:06 PM
Doubt Manning comes here.

Klis says 3 yr deal for Mays.

houghtam
03-18-2012, 04:07 PM
And really, why would Manning want to sign with us when we have completely failed to upgrade our roster so far this free agency period? I mean we are clearly the least talented of the teams in the running for his services, and we've done nothing to improve that. Am I missing something here?

You're missing the fact that we won a playoff game and went 8-8 last year, so that automatically means we're only a QB away from a Super Bowl.

extralife
03-18-2012, 04:08 PM
There's no reason to bash the signing without knowing the terms of the contract or the role we envision him playing.

MABroncoFan
03-18-2012, 04:09 PM
I didn't think we'd spend big money on MLB (Lofton, Tulloch) if we are indeed high on Irving, but I didn't think McClain would break the bank.

halfback
03-18-2012, 04:10 PM
3yr deal to boot, epic

houghtam
03-18-2012, 04:11 PM
There's no reason to bash the signing without knowing the terms of the contract or the role we envision him playing.

The role of "roster spot" is all I need to know.

Yuck.

MABroncoFan
03-18-2012, 04:12 PM
Hoping we bring in Trufant and either keep Woodyard or sign G. Hayes.

oubronco
03-18-2012, 04:14 PM
Cecil Lammey‏@cecillammeyReply


with Joe Mays signing with the #broncos it likely puts an end to my dream of Jameel McClain playing here #sadbanana https://twitter.com/#!/Denver_Broncos/status/181507064684740609

Muthafuggan dipshyts we could've had a good MLB for a change

Lestat
03-18-2012, 04:14 PM
i have no issue with bring Mays back. he's a good back up. but if the idea is to have him man the middle as a starter than Elway has lost his mind.
i don't think he's being viewed as a starter and i believe we'll still sign McClain.

Agamemnon
03-18-2012, 04:16 PM
You're missing the fact that we won a playoff game and went 8-8 last year, so that automatically means we're only a QB away from a Super Bowl.

Oh I'm missing the figments of people's imaginations? Got it. ;)

broncosteven
03-18-2012, 04:18 PM
Maybe their goal is to have him gain 50 lbs and play DT? If that is the case then great move.

LRtagger
03-18-2012, 04:19 PM
**** this bull****

Agamemnon
03-18-2012, 04:19 PM
Maybe their goal is to have him gain 50 lbs and play DT? If that is the case then great move.

The 5'10" 300 pound bowling ball of doom!!!

MABroncoFan
03-18-2012, 04:20 PM
i have no issue with bring Mays back. he's a good back up. but if the idea is to have him man the middle as a starter than Elway has lost his mind.
i don't think he's being viewed as a starter and i believe we'll still sign McClain.


Hopefully, but Irving and Mays are both MLB ... I'd be surprised with them adding a 3rd. Will have to see how much they gave to Mays ... given it's 3 years, I wouldn't expect another multi year deal for a MLB.

BroncoBen
03-18-2012, 04:20 PM
People need to relax... this signing means that perhaps Nate Irving is going have a legit chance to start and Joe Mays is solid backup and special teams player.

broncosteven
03-18-2012, 04:21 PM
The 5'10" 300 pound bowling ball of doom!!!

He would make a great DT.

broncosteven
03-18-2012, 04:21 PM
People need to relax... this signing means that perhaps Nate Irving is going have a legit chance to start and Joe Mays is solid backup and special teams player.

Either way they are going to need LB depth with DJ being out.

MABroncoFan
03-18-2012, 04:21 PM
Sounds like Mays instead of them..


Howard Balzer‏@HBalzer721Reply

Denver re-signed LB Joe Mays after getting visits with Geno Hayes and Jameel McClain.

Lycan
03-18-2012, 04:22 PM
Mays can play the run well, when he guesses correctly, which is not that often.

He can't cover at all.

And he will probably be our starting MLB again this year, unless a 2nd year player who couldn't get on the field last year beats him out.

Great job EFX! It would have sucked to pay a little more for a, you know, GOOD player.

SoCalBronco
03-18-2012, 04:23 PM
Wow..three years.

theAPAOps5
03-18-2012, 04:26 PM
Wow..three years.

And you say they don't pay. :strong:

Agamemnon
03-18-2012, 04:28 PM
People need to relax... this signing means that perhaps Nate Irving is going have a legit chance to start and Joe Mays is solid backup and special teams player.

People hanging their hopes on a 3rd round pick that could never get on the field last season make me laugh.

BroncoBen
03-18-2012, 04:30 PM
People hanging their hopes on a 3rd round pick that could never get on the field last season make me laugh.

But its Okay to use the excuse of how a short pre-season and no OTA hurt Tebow.. but you can't use that same excuse on last years draft picks.

Ziggy
03-18-2012, 04:32 PM
People need to relax... this signing means that perhaps Nate Irving is going have a legit chance to start and Joe Mays is solid backup and special teams player.

Shhhhhhhhh......no interrupting the whinefest that's going on in this forum! Forget the fact that Mays may have been re-signed for special teams and back up duty only.

Lycan
03-18-2012, 04:32 PM
But its Okay to use the excuse of how a short pre-season and no OTA hurt Tebow.. but you can't use that same excuse on last years draft picks.

That would be an excuse maybe for someone like Rahim Moore who played badly.

Irving couldn't get on the field. Over Joe "I Suck" Mays.

Does not inspire confidence.

theAPAOps5
03-18-2012, 04:35 PM
People hanging their hopes on a 3rd round pick that could never get on the field last season make me laugh.

Yes, but should we laugh as hard as we do when you post? That is pretty hard to top.

Cito Pelon
03-18-2012, 04:40 PM
I'll be truly shocked if we pony up the $5m-$6m a year Bunkley warrants given the contracts dished out to Soliai and Langford.

Yeah, it's pretty much unfathomable how the FO thinks they don't have to pay market value. They're disconnected from reality somehow.

ScottXray
03-18-2012, 04:43 PM
Hopefully, but Irving and Mays are both MLB ... I'd be surprised with them adding a 3rd. Will have to see how much they gave to Mays ... given it's 3 years, I wouldn't expect another multi year deal for a MLB.

McClain can also play will , which s likely in their thoughts ( i hope)

maher_tyler
03-18-2012, 04:45 PM
Mays was the worst starting MLB in the league last year. Other than special teams and injuries, he should not be on the field!

UberBroncoMan
03-18-2012, 04:56 PM
Sounds like Mays instead of them..


Howard Balzer‏@HBalzer721Reply

Denver re-signed LB Joe Mays after getting visits with Geno Hayes and Jameel McClain.

One of the three was a "value signing," guess which.

Agamemnon
03-18-2012, 04:59 PM
Yeah, it's pretty much unfathomable how the FO thinks they don't have to pay market value. They're disconnected from reality somehow.

How hilarious would it be if they low-balled Manning as well? Hilarious!

Requiem
03-18-2012, 07:03 PM
Congrats, Joe! BISON PRIDE!

http://bisonmedia.areavoices.com/files/2011/12/joemaysbison.jpg

http://www.inforum.com/media/full/jpg/2007/08/07/North-Dakota-State-linebacker-Joe-Mays.jpg

http://kvly.images.worldnow.com/images/16357182_BG1.jpg

Garcia Bronco
03-18-2012, 07:04 PM
Nice. Joe needs some work, but he does a decent job.

cutthemdown
03-18-2012, 07:23 PM
We can't start this guy and expect to be good in the middle.

MVP-06
03-18-2012, 08:06 PM
Looking forward to watching him over pursue and getting washed out 9/10 run plays. But that one is a big hit

broncocalijohn
03-18-2012, 08:23 PM
re-sign not resign. Big difference.

Dedhed
03-18-2012, 08:31 PM
This is worse news than missing on Manning and losing Tebow.

Dedhed
03-18-2012, 08:32 PM
re-sign not resign. Big difference.

We'd be much better off if we resigned Mays.

houghtam
03-18-2012, 08:41 PM
We'd be much better off if we resigned Mays.

I just can't resign myself to the thought of him in Broncos orange for another season.

Dedhed
03-18-2012, 08:48 PM
I just can't resign myself to the thought of him in Broncos orange for another season.

With the re-signing I'm resigned to another year of utter suck MLB.

maher_tyler
03-18-2012, 09:21 PM
Nice. Joe needs some work, but he does a decent job.

He's ****ing terrible!

Sorry if this was a joke.

Tombstone RJ
03-18-2012, 09:31 PM
I sure hope this means that Fox thinks Irving will be the starting MLBer and that Mays is a nice back up...

razorwire77
03-18-2012, 09:36 PM
I'm especially fond of when Joe not only whiffs in space on a tackle, but also hurts one of the team's other defenders after he spears the entire pile 5 seconds later.

Bronco Rob
03-18-2012, 10:31 PM
Perfect! We just wasted money on a special teams player.

illbroncsfn
03-19-2012, 05:11 AM
3yrs 12 million according to this a.m.'s article.....

Denver724
03-19-2012, 05:14 AM
3yrs 12 million according to this a.m.'s article.....

$4 million guaranteed in 2012. Shocking contract. Unreal.

maher_tyler
03-19-2012, 05:18 AM
Apparently no one in the coaching staff or FO watched game tape against the Steelers or anyone else we played this past season. Anyone wonder why teams run so many tosses/sweeps against us??

Ray Finkle
03-19-2012, 05:32 AM
JDR has always had good LB's...if he made the push to retain Mays, perhaps he can get more out of him.

Drek
03-19-2012, 05:37 AM
3yrs 12 million according to this a.m.'s article.....

Joe Mays is apparently worth nearly as much as Brandon Mebane, Paul Soliai, etc..

Awesome job by the FO. Not only did we fail to improve the MLB position, we also ensured ourselves of overpaying for mediocrity.

BroncoBeavis
03-19-2012, 05:54 AM
JDR has always had good LB's...if he made the push to retain Mays, perhaps he can get more out of him.

You are a relentless bumnuzzler aren't you.

55CrushEm
03-19-2012, 06:09 AM
Joe Mays is apparently worth nearly as much as Brandon Mebane, Paul Soliai, etc..

Awesome job by the FO. Not only did we fail to improve the MLB position, we also ensured ourselves of overpaying for mediocrity.

Yeah. Guys, I've always been the eternal optimist when it comes to the Broncos. I might not always have high "expectations".....but I AM always "hopeful".

That being said....I've never been so disappointed in an offseason as I have been this year so far. All this cap space, no moves.

...and now THIS?! $4M per year for Joe Mays.....when we could have had Mebane for $5M !!!!!

Really? This is getting ridiculous. And I'll say it again....IF we land Manning, and we make it no further in the playoffs than we did last year......you can't say it's anything but a complete and utter FAIL.

Lord, I hate how my attitude has gotten so bad in such a short time on this team......

Drek
03-19-2012, 06:20 AM
JDR has always had good LB's...if he made the push to retain Mays, perhaps he can get more out of him.

If we're relying on Del Rio to coach up Mays why not start with a younger, better player like McClain and let Del Rio coach him up into being a pro-bowler?

Ray Finkle
03-19-2012, 06:25 AM
If we're relying on Del Rio to coach up Mays why not start with a younger, better player like McClain and let Del Rio coach him up into being a pro-bowler?

It's simple,

We know the total value of his contract is 3yr/12 Mil but we don't know what that breakdown is. I hope Irving beats him out and he's relegated to Backup LB/ST. I liked McClain and have watched him a lot but I'm not overly upset at this.....

of course they loose Bunk, I'm probably going to lose my ****.

Ray Finkle
03-19-2012, 06:25 AM
You are a relentless bumnuzzler aren't you.

yeah, that's it....

eddie mac
03-19-2012, 07:05 AM
Absolute ****ing failures regardless of the Manning sweepstakes, I wouldn't let these 3 order me a ****ing burger.

DenverBroncosJM
03-19-2012, 07:09 AM
I'm sure all the efx apologists will be here soon to make us feel better about this....guys? Really guys come on.. Say something!

55CrushEm
03-19-2012, 07:12 AM
I'm sure all the efx apologists will be here soon to make us feel better about this....guys? Really guys come on.. Say something!

You shut your filthy mouth! Elway was a GREAT player here. He can do no wrong!!! Blah, blah, blah....

IN ELWAY WE TRUST!!!!!!

:clown:

eddie mac
03-19-2012, 07:14 AM
It's essentially a 1 year $4m deal. Regardless that just shows me how much they want to strengthen via FA structuring his deal like that. They dont

maher_tyler
03-19-2012, 07:14 AM
I'm sure all the efx apologists will be here soon to make us feel better about this....guys? Really guys come on.. Say something!

Come on bro, it's John Elway, you know, the Duke! How dare we question him. He won us 2 SBs and is the GOAT..he can do no wrong!!

Bronco Rob
03-19-2012, 07:41 AM
3yrs 12 million according to this a.m.'s article.....



BNoooooooooooooo!

Drek
03-19-2012, 07:45 AM
Absolute ****ing failures regardless of the Manning sweepstakes, I wouldn't let these 3 order me a ****ing burger.

If you did you'd get a burger made with 95% lean beef (expensive but makes crumbly dry burgers), processed cheese, and served between two slices of wonderbread. It would cost you $20 and they'd tell you it was a "value" because of the high grade beef.

barryr
03-19-2012, 07:52 AM
Mays, if even signed to be a backup, is one injury away from starting and this is the NFL. He is really that wonderful to keep and the Broncos first re-sign? I doubt many would have predicted that.

pricejj
03-19-2012, 08:07 AM
Mays, if even signed to be a backup, is one injury away from starting and this is the NFL. He is really that wonderful to keep and the Broncos first re-sign? I doubt many would have predicted that.

$4M per year is not backup money. When asked about improving the roster, 3 weeks ago, Fox said, "We have a lot of work to do".

Denver stopped linebacker Joe Mays from making another free-agent visit and agreed to terms on a three-year deal worth about $12 million, with $4 million guaranteed the first year, with the linebacker.

"I was sitting on the plane, going to Indy when I got the call," Mays said. "I had to get up, hurry up down that aisle and rush to get off the plane before they closed the doors. They were close to closing the doors.

"I just wanted to get off that plane and get up there and take that offer."

Dumbass EFX missed their meeting with McClain, and overpaid for a player they were intending on replacing. This has Xanders written all over it.

Bronco Rob
03-19-2012, 08:25 AM
$4M per year is not backup money. When asked about improving the roster, 3 weeks ago, Fox said, "We have a lot of work to do".

Denver stopped linebacker Joe Mays from making another free-agent visit and agreed to terms on a three-year deal worth about $12 million, with $4 million guaranteed the first year, with the linebacker.

"I was sitting on the plane, going to Indy when I got the call," Mays said. "I had to get up, hurry up down that aisle and rush to get off the plane before they closed the doors. They were close to closing the doors.

"I just wanted to get off that plane and get up there and take that offer."

Dumbass EFX missed their meeting with McClain, and overpaid for a player they were intending on replacing. This has Xanders written all over it.


So is it written in stone that McClain is a no go in Denver?

gyldenlove
03-19-2012, 08:25 AM
At least our new contract wizard seems to know what he is doing .... I wonder if he got into Bowlen's drinks cabinet.

The Joker
03-19-2012, 08:30 AM
Wow, guy isn't worth anywhere near that.

This offseason has been a shambles so far.

Bronco Rob
03-19-2012, 08:39 AM
Wow, guy isn't worth anywhere near that.

This offseason has been a shambles so far.




:strong:

KevinJames
03-19-2012, 08:41 AM
I heard Saints offered him similar contract, he wanted to stay a Bronco and Broncos wanted him back as well. I like Mays just keep him off the field in obvious passing situations. Hope we find linebacker that can cover in the draft.

Confident Jack will get the most out of him.

Drek
03-19-2012, 08:41 AM
So is it written in stone that McClain is a no go in Denver?

No. McClain can probably play WOLB and MLB. Irving played WOLB some in college as well.

With DJ's suspension I wouldn't be surprised if we still add McClain and just cut DJ outright once his ordeal with the league is settled and we have his replacement under contract.

KevinJames
03-19-2012, 08:44 AM
No. McClain can probably play WOLB and MLB. Irving played WOLB some in college as well.

With DJ's suspension I wouldn't be surprised if we still add McClain and just cut DJ outright once his ordeal with the league is settled and we have his replacement under contract.

Chances DJ is actually suspended is rather low, if they take this case to court suspension could be delayed a year or two. Remember the Viking's DL star caps case?

Bronco Rob
03-19-2012, 08:51 AM
Chances DJ is actually suspended is rather low, if they take this case to court suspension could be delayed a year or two. Remember the Viking's DL star caps case?



McClain > Dj Canseco

Drek
03-19-2012, 08:56 AM
Chances DJ is actually suspended is rather low, if they take this case to court suspension could be delayed a year or two. Remember the Viking's DL star caps case?

I'd bet that it gets settled far sooner than that case did, though I agree that it likely results in no suspensions for DJ and McBean. They have a fairly strong case from the sounds of it.

Regardless, this is another hassle with DJ on top of the DUI and whatnot. Last year was his last guaranteed money payment. He's now going to make $4.9M new non-committed money in 2012. He can be released free and clear.

So if you had the choice between 29 year old DJ Williams at $4.9M and 26 year old Jameel McClain at whatever his price might be (likely less than $4.9M), who would you lean towards?

I like DJ as a player, but some of his off-field issues and his contract makes him a guy the FO definitely has to weigh the options for and against.

Ronnie Tsunami
03-19-2012, 07:55 PM
*manning bump*

one man's quest to rid the first page of all excessive peyton related content

TonyR
03-29-2012, 10:48 AM
Which Brings Us to the Run Stop % …

To fully appreciate the how many stops a defender has made, you need to once again look at how much they’re on the field. That’s what brought the Run Stop Percentage Signature Stat to life; that desire to measure how often defenders were responsible for offensive failures relative to how often they were on the field. It’s through this stat we see that the Denver Broncos may have scored themselves a bargain with the re-signing of Joe Mays, as their middle linebacker led the league with a stop percentage of 14.29%. He was joined at the top by NaVorro Bowman who had an identical number as both men frequently left their mark on running backs.

Mays was one of a number of linebackers who were/ are free agents to fare well. Curtis Lofton was ranked sixth overall, a massive 42 spots ahead of a man he is likely to replace in Jonathan Vilma. The Henderson brothers also both impressed, with E.J. Henderson just edging out his brother Erin Henderson as they finished eighth and ninth, respectively. Cowboys fans will also be happy to note that Dan Connor excelled in this area (not a surprise to anyone who has watched him) with a 12th place finish. With Stephen Tulloch in 19th, this was certainly a year for teams to get linebackers who could make an impact in run D.

Rank Name Team Run Snaps Tackles Stops Stop %
1 Joe Mays DEN 322 58 46 14.29%
2 NaVorro Bowman SF 315 58 45 14.29%
3 Brian Cushing HST 330 56 46 13.94%
4 Ray Lewis BLT 322 60 44 13.66%
5 Perry Riley WAS 207 30 26 12.56%
6 Curtis Lofton ATL 343 59 43 12.54%
7 Donald Butler SD 328 65 40 12.20%
8 E.J. Henderson MIN 369 58 44 11.92%
9 Erin Henderson MIN 267 43 31 11.61%
10 Karlos Dansby MIA 317 48 36 11.36%
11 Lance Briggs CHI 362 49 41 11.33%
12 Dan Connor CAR 281 47 31 11.03%
13 Rey Maualuga CIN 318 49 35 11.01%
14 Colin McCarthy TEN 200 32 22 11.00%
15 Desmond Bishop GB 258 56 28 10.85%
16 Daryl Smith JAX 404 51 43 10.64%
17 Sean Lee DAL 282 45 30 10.64%
18 Sean Weatherspoon ATL 341 43 36 10.56%
19 Stephen Tulloch DET 379 57 40 10.55%
20 Derrick O. Johnson KC 476 74 50 10.50%

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/03/29/2011-run-stop-percentage-linebackers/

BroncoInferno
03-29-2012, 11:10 AM
Which Brings Us to the Run Stop % …

To fully appreciate the how many stops a defender has made, you need to once again look at how much they’re on the field. That’s what brought the Run Stop Percentage Signature Stat to life; that desire to measure how often defenders were responsible for offensive failures relative to how often they were on the field. It’s through this stat we see that the Denver Broncos may have scored themselves a bargain with the re-signing of Joe Mays, as their middle linebacker led the league with a stop percentage of 14.29%. He was joined at the top by NaVorro Bowman who had an identical number as both men frequently left their mark on running backs.

Mays was one of a number of linebackers who were/ are free agents to fare well. Curtis Lofton was ranked sixth overall, a massive 42 spots ahead of a man he is likely to replace in Jonathan Vilma. The Henderson brothers also both impressed, with E.J. Henderson just edging out his brother Erin Henderson as they finished eighth and ninth, respectively. Cowboys fans will also be happy to note that Dan Connor excelled in this area (not a surprise to anyone who has watched him) with a 12th place finish. With Stephen Tulloch in 19th, this was certainly a year for teams to get linebackers who could make an impact in run D.

Rank Name Team Run Snaps Tackles Stops Stop %
1 Joe Mays DEN 322 58 46 14.29%
2 NaVorro Bowman SF 315 58 45 14.29%
3 Brian Cushing HST 330 56 46 13.94%
4 Ray Lewis BLT 322 60 44 13.66%
5 Perry Riley WAS 207 30 26 12.56%
6 Curtis Lofton ATL 343 59 43 12.54%
7 Donald Butler SD 328 65 40 12.20%
8 E.J. Henderson MIN 369 58 44 11.92%
9 Erin Henderson MIN 267 43 31 11.61%
10 Karlos Dansby MIA 317 48 36 11.36%
11 Lance Briggs CHI 362 49 41 11.33%
12 Dan Connor CAR 281 47 31 11.03%
13 Rey Maualuga CIN 318 49 35 11.01%
14 Colin McCarthy TEN 200 32 22 11.00%
15 Desmond Bishop GB 258 56 28 10.85%
16 Daryl Smith JAX 404 51 43 10.64%
17 Sean Lee DAL 282 45 30 10.64%
18 Sean Weatherspoon ATL 341 43 36 10.56%
19 Stephen Tulloch DET 379 57 40 10.55%
20 Derrick O. Johnson KC 476 74 50 10.50%

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/03/29/2011-run-stop-percentage-linebackers/

Like I've been saying, this meme that's caught hold that Mays is totally terrible is way overblown. He's a very good two-down thumper, as this analysis indicates. Does he suck in coverage? Yes. Maybe someone like Sean Spence can come in on 3rd downs to help with that.

DarkHorse
03-29-2012, 11:20 AM
Can't wait to see his big hits and misses again this year

baja
03-29-2012, 12:15 PM
Ya I don't get all the Joe Mays hate either. You can work around his lack of coverage skills.

BroncoBeavis
03-29-2012, 12:34 PM
Ya I don't get all the Joe Mays hate either. You can work around his lack of coverage skills.

Depends on what TE's you're lined up against.

broncswin
03-29-2012, 01:12 PM
Ya I don't get all the Joe Mays hate either. You can work around his lack of coverage skills.

How do you work around his lack of coverage skills, when good QB's no how shiatty he is and audible to pick on him...

dbfan4life
03-29-2012, 01:20 PM
Five pages and no "Idiot Cannonball" reference? Disappointed in the 'Mane! ROFL!

baja
03-29-2012, 01:24 PM
How do you work around his lack of coverage skills, when good QB's no how shiatty he is and audible to pick on him...

If he were as much of a liability as you portray he would not even be in the NFL let alone being paid 4 million a year. I don't see the current FO overpaying for players they sign. They must think he is worth it, cautious as they are with their cap money.

DarkHorse
03-29-2012, 01:26 PM
Can we work around his lack of proper tackling, angles, AND pass coverage? I sure hope so, dude is making pretty good money.

Requiem
03-29-2012, 01:27 PM
You guys are all dicks and haters. Joe is a fellow Bison and his arms are as big as my torso. I had class with a lot of his homies, but never with joe.

baja
03-29-2012, 01:29 PM
IDK I gotta go with the FO on this one. He can't be as bad as being portrayed here. Clearly they have a plan for him, no way the give him that jack otherwise.

Let's see what Del Rio can do with him???

oubronco
03-29-2012, 01:29 PM
You guys are all ***** and haters. Joe is a fellow Bison and his arms are as big as my torso. I had class with a lot of his homies, but never with joe.

?

DarkHorse
03-29-2012, 01:32 PM
Yeah hopefully JDR can save him - because most people know the entire Broncos defense sucks in the middle. DT, MLB, S

So far, the only attempt to fix this has been some random S from the Browns.

Maybe there's nothing wrong with the middle of our D and we're all just freaking out about nothing....for the last few years.

Requiem
03-29-2012, 01:34 PM
?

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/B1SON/20050809bison-mays-09.jpg

baja
03-29-2012, 01:44 PM
Yeah hopefully JDR can save him - because most people know the entire Broncos defense sucks in the middle. DT, MLB, S

So far, the only attempt to fix this has been some random S from the Browns.

Maybe there's nothing wrong with the middle of our D and we're all just freaking out about nothing....for the last few years.


Clearly you are correct in your observation. I just got a good feeling about Mays. I'm not an Elway homer yet but you gotta think after looking at their body of work they would not miss so grossly at this forum would indicate. We'll see soon enough, well maybe not soon enough, but we'll see. ;D

Drek
03-29-2012, 03:43 PM
Which Brings Us to the Run Stop % …

Another worthless junk stat from Pro Football Focus in an attempt to sell you info for your fantasy football team? Now who could have seen that coming!?

1. They never define a "stop". Why do we assume this is any more valid than tackles when they fail to define it?

2. A comment on that very article mentioned that Mays had more missed tackles than all of his peers and was agreed to by a member of PFF. Why isn't that second level of analysis included in their write up?

Bad use of statistics is worse than shallow, uninformative statistics because it fools people who suck at math into thinking they're being given worthwhile information. PFF makes their money off selling the former while degrading the later, and hoping no one notices.

BroncoInferno
03-29-2012, 03:48 PM
Another worthless junk stat from Pro Football Focus in an attempt to sell you info for your fantasy football team? Now who could have seen that coming!?

1. They never define a "stop". Why do we assume this is any more valid than tackles when they fail to define it?

2. A comment on that very article mentioned that Mays had more missed tackles than all of his peers and was agreed to by a member of PFF. Why isn't that second level of analysis included in their write up?

Bad use of statistics is worse than shallow, uninformative statistics because it fools people who suck at math into thinking they're being given worthwhile information. PFF makes their money off selling the former while degrading the later, and hoping no one notices.

My read of the Mays resigning is that it's insurance in case Irving doesn't pan out. Eddie Mac mentioned that only the first year is guaranteed, meaning he can be released after this season if Irving pans out like they hope. They didn't want to invest 5 years or so in someone like Tulloch when the potential answer is already on the roster. A pure insurance signing is my read.

houghtam
03-29-2012, 03:50 PM
Another worthless junk stat from Pro Football Focus in an attempt to sell you info for your fantasy football team? Now who could have seen that coming!?

1. They never define a "stop". Why do we assume this is any more valid than tackles when they fail to define it?

2. A comment on that very article mentioned that Mays had more missed tackles than all of his peers and was agreed to by a member of PFF. Why isn't that second level of analysis included in their write up?

Bad use of statistics is worse than shallow, uninformative statistics because it fools people who suck at math into thinking they're being given worthwhile information. PFF makes their money off selling the former while degrading the later, and hoping no one notices.

I don't need statistics to tell me what my eyes see clearly, and that is Joe Mays playing LB looks like a 9 year old girl playing TV tag. If you listen closely, you can even hear the ball carriers calling out television shows to keep him off them.

Drek
03-29-2012, 04:16 PM
My read of the Mays resigning is that it's insurance in case Irving doesn't pan out. Eddie Mac mentioned that only the first year is guaranteed, meaning he can be released after this season if Irving pans out like they hope. They didn't want to invest 5 years or so in someone like Tulloch when the potential answer is already on the roster. A pure insurance signing is my read.

$4M is a damn expensive insurance policy. Jameel McClain took a 3 year, $10.5M deal to stay in Baltimore. He could have been our MLB insurance for Irving and if Irving did pan out would free us up to release DJ now that he's making fat per year salaries with no guaranteed money tied to them.

Requiem
03-29-2012, 04:33 PM
Joe is a fantastic run defender. He is a thumper. He should never be in pass pro.

BroncoInferno
03-29-2012, 06:23 PM
$4M is a damn expensive insurance policy. Jameel McClain took a 3 year, $10.5M deal to stay in Baltimore. He could have been our MLB insurance for Irving and if Irving did pan out would free us up to release DJ now that he's making fat per year salaries with no guaranteed money tied to them.

What did McClain's guarantee look like? Was it a one and done type deal like Mays'? Have you watched McClain enough to know what kind of player he is? Because I doubt if most people have. They just assume that he's a Baltimore LB, ergo he's the ****. I bet most had never heard of the guy until his potential interest.

oubronco
03-29-2012, 06:32 PM
Saints | More on Curtis Lofton's contract (http://www.kffl.com/hotw/gnews.php?id=778144-saints-more-on-curtis-lofton's-contract)
Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:02:05 -0700
Updating previous reports, New Orleans Saints (http://www.kffl.com/team/25/nfl/new-orleans-saints) LB Curtis Lofton (http://www.kffl.com/player/18327/nfl/curtis-lofton) is scheduled to make a base salary of $700,000 in 2012 and his salary cap number will be $1.7 million. He will receive a $1.1 million base salary as well as a $5 million roster bonus in 2013, a $1 million base salary and a $2 million roster bonus in 2014. In 2015, he is scheduled to receive a $2.4 million base salary, a $4.5 million roster bonus and a $100,000 workout bonus. He is scheduled to make a $5.4 million base salary in 2016 and will also receive a $100,000 workout bonus. He could make a base salary of $6 million in 2017 but has year of his contract is voidable.


Read more: http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl#ixzz1qYl4tUgY

Tombstone RJ
03-29-2012, 07:07 PM
$4M is a damn expensive insurance policy. Jameel McClain took a 3 year, $10.5M deal to stay in Baltimore. He could have been our MLB insurance for Irving and if Irving did pan out would free us up to release DJ now that he's making fat per year salaries with no guaranteed money tied to them.

I think you missed the point, but you do love to hear yourself talk so carry on...

barryr
03-29-2012, 07:16 PM
Only in Bronco forums can Tebow stink at lengths never seen before while Joe Mays is ready to go to the Pro Bowl. Next Andre Goodman is going to the HOF and Marcus Thomas becomes a monster DT who can't be blocked.

cutthemdown
03-29-2012, 07:25 PM
Joe is a fantastic run defender. He is a thumper. He should never be in pass pro.

Problem is so many teams throw on 1st and 2nd down. Hard to have a good defense when guys are huge liabilities in passing game. The Bronco safetys have to get better, and Adams needs to work out. They can maybe make up for what we lack in linebacker coverage. Miller stinks at it also.

DJ pretty good at it but he could be in trouble.

barryr
03-29-2012, 07:29 PM
Problem is so many teams throw on 1st and 2nd down. Hard to have a good defense when guys are huge liabilities in passing game. The Bronco safetys have to get better, and Adams needs to work out. They can maybe make up for what we lack in linebacker coverage. Miller stinks at it also.

DJ pretty good at it but he could be in trouble.

This is why LB's like Burfict drop in drafts. MLB's that can't cover shouldn't really be starting in the NFL. Not on a good defense at least.

DBroncos4life
03-29-2012, 07:34 PM
This is why LB's like Burfict drop in drafts. MLB's that can't cover shouldn't really be starting in the NFL. Not on a good defense at least.

He's dropping because he was sat his last game by coaches for dumb play, poor attitude, crappy combine, then an even worse pro day.

DBroncos4life
03-29-2012, 07:36 PM
Problem is so many teams throw on 1st and 2nd down. Hard to have a good defense when guys are huge liabilities in passing game. The Bronco safetys have to get better, and Adams needs to work out. They can maybe make up for what we lack in linebacker coverage. Miller stinks at it also.

DJ pretty good at it but he could be in trouble.

This is why I want Lavonte David. The guys is good in coverage and makes plays.

barryr
03-29-2012, 07:37 PM
He's dropping because he was sat his last game by coaches for dumb play, poor attitude, crappy combine, then an even worse pro day.

And he can't cover either.

DBroncos4life
03-29-2012, 07:38 PM
And he can't cover either.

Yeah I'm sure thats what has the scouts worried the most. GTFO LOL

Drek
03-29-2012, 07:40 PM
I think you missed the point, but you do love to hear yourself talk so carry on...

No, I got your point. Mays is a bridge that lets them have a spot for Irving as soon as he's ready. Great.

Problem is they paid more for a one dimensional bridge player than a multi-dimensional player would probably have cost them.

Mays' deal is effectively a 1 year, $4M deal if Irving comes on and takes over the MLB job and that isn't just because of Irving. It is also because Mays can't play anywhere else.

What if Irving lights it up early this year and takes over the MLB job in camp, but then DJ actually does have to sit out his six game suspension? Who plays WOLB? Woodyard while Mr. $4M Joe Mays sits on the bench and plays special teams.

Now if instead of going with Mays we went with someone who had more versatility we could instead have an extra layer of useful depth. Instead we have Joe "I can only play MLB and then only on 1st and 2nd downs/definite running downs" Mays.

barryr
03-29-2012, 07:42 PM
Yeah I'm sure thats what has the scouts worried the most. GTFO LOL

I don't remember stating that, but you are prone to hysterics and stupidly counting words in sentences.

BroncoInferno
03-29-2012, 07:43 PM
No, I got your point. Mays is a bridge that lets them have a spot for Irving as soon as he's ready. Great.

Problem is they paid more for a one dimensional bridge player than a multi-dimensional player would probably have cost them.

Mays' deal is effectively a 1 year, $4M deal if Irving comes on and takes over the MLB job and that isn't just because of Irving. It is also because Mays can't play anywhere else.

What if Irving lights it up early this year and takes over the MLB job in camp, but then DJ actually does have to sit out his six game suspension? Who plays WOLB? Woodyard while Mr. $4M Joe Mays sits on the bench and plays special teams.

Now if instead of going with Mays we went with someone who had more versatility we could instead have an extra layer of useful depth. Instead we have Joe "I can only play MLB and then only on 1st and 2nd downs/definite running downs" Mays.

Lot of what ifs. Sometimes you have to trust your draft acumen. It may prove to be a poor trust, but I can understand why they want to leave a spot open for Irving. Signing someone to better than the deal they gave Mays wouldn't leave him with a potential spot. That's what you to fail to understand. Give your draft investments a chance.

barryr
03-29-2012, 07:48 PM
Lot of what ifs. Sometimes you have to trust your draft acumen. It may prove to be a poor trust, but I can understand why they want to leave a spot open for Irving. Signing someone to better than the deal they gave Mays wouldn't leave him with a potential spot. That's what you to fail to understand. Give your draft investments a chance.

No, his point is, and it's a good one, Mays does not offer flexibility in that if Irving wins the starting MLB spot and DJ can't play, Mays can not shift over to OLB like a McClain could and play well at least.

Tombstone RJ
03-29-2012, 07:50 PM
No, I got your point. Mays is a bridge that lets them have a spot for Irving as soon as he's ready. Great.

Problem is they paid more for a one dimensional bridge player than a multi-dimensional player would probably have cost them.

Mays' deal is effectively a 1 year, $4M deal if Irving comes on and takes over the MLB job and that isn't just because of Irving. It is also because Mays can't play anywhere else.

What if Irving lights it up early this year and takes over the MLB job in camp, but then DJ actually does have to sit out his six game suspension? Who plays WOLB? Woodyard while Mr. $4M Joe Mays sits on the bench and plays special teams.

Now if instead of going with Mays we went with someone who had more versatility we could instead have an extra layer of useful depth. Instead we have Joe "I can only play MLB and then only on 1st and 2nd downs/definite running downs" Mays.

Yep, Mays is an expensive insurance policy but he's also a known commodity, that is, Fox must know the guy and like him. Mays also has played 1 year in Fox's defense so he's familiar with it. If Irving steps in an lights it up, great, that is fine with me. I have no problem paying Mays $4m to sit on the bench and watch Irving.

Obviously the Broncos expect Woodyard to replace DJ while he sits out. The Broncos may also draft another LBer. We just don't know how the Broncos feel about DJ, for all we know Fox & Company love him.

I agree Mays is pretty one dimensional but the money is already spent. It's a one year contract leaving the Broncos a lot of flexibility next year to address the situation if Irving does not pan out.

BroncoInferno
03-29-2012, 07:51 PM
No, his point is, and it's a good one, Mays does not offer flexibility in that if Irving wins the starting MLB spot and DJ can't play, Mays can not shift over to OLB like a McClain could and play well at least.

McClain wasn't going to sign away from Balitmore without a no-fail starting job, or long-term significant starters money. Why would he? That's the problem with you folks, you assume you can sign any potential FA you want. You can't. A meriad of factors stand in the way.

DBroncos4life
03-29-2012, 07:51 PM
I don't remember stating that, but you are prone to hysterics and stupidly counting words in sentences.

In post 130 you claimed that is why LBs like him drop because of poor coverage. That is the LEAST of his worries going into draft day.

Requiem
03-29-2012, 07:53 PM
HATIN' MAYS IS GAYS

barryr
03-29-2012, 07:53 PM
In post 130 you claimed that is why LBs like him drop because of poor coverage. That is the LEAST of his worries going into draft day.

Yeah, I stated that was the only reason. SFI.

DBroncos4life
03-29-2012, 07:53 PM
No, I got your point. Mays is a bridge that lets them have a spot for Irving as soon as he's ready. Great.

Problem is they paid more for a one dimensional bridge player than a multi-dimensional player would probably have cost them.

Mays' deal is effectively a 1 year, $4M deal if Irving comes on and takes over the MLB job and that isn't just because of Irving. It is also because Mays can't play anywhere else.

What if Irving lights it up early this year and takes over the MLB job in camp, but then DJ actually does have to sit out his six game suspension? Who plays WOLB? Woodyard while Mr. $4M Joe Mays sits on the bench and plays special teams.

Now if instead of going with Mays we went with someone who had more versatility we could instead have an extra layer of useful depth. Instead we have Joe "I can only play MLB and then only on 1st and 2nd downs/definite running downs" Mays.

So you think if Irving lights it up at MLB the coaches will just move him to WLB if DJ is suspended? They brought Woodyard back for that reason!

fontaine
03-30-2012, 04:39 AM
No, I got your point. Mays is a bridge that lets them have a spot for Irving as soon as he's ready. Great.

Problem is they paid more for a one dimensional bridge player than a multi-dimensional player would probably have cost them.

Mays' deal is effectively a 1 year, $4M deal if Irving comes on and takes over the MLB job and that isn't just because of Irving. It is also because Mays can't play anywhere else.

What if Irving lights it up early this year and takes over the MLB job in camp, but then DJ actually does have to sit out his six game suspension? Who plays WOLB? Woodyard while Mr. $4M Joe Mays sits on the bench and plays special teams.


So if Irving "lights it up early this year and takes over" you're still bitching because Mays gets decent money to be a backup and special teams player?

Ha!

Everyone here wants Irving to light it up and take over the job because he would bring better coverage skills and most people would be happy at that.

Except you I guess.

Drek
03-30-2012, 05:57 AM
So you think if Irving lights it up at MLB the coaches will just move him to WLB if DJ is suspended? They brought Woodyard back for that reason!

In no way did I suggest moving Irving off of MLB if he takes the job from Mays. The last thing we want is to start playing musical chairs with young players just starting to break out. I was simply stating that if leaving the door open for Irving is the FO's gameplan then Mays is the wrong guy to hold the door open with because he offers you ZERO versatility the second your end game (Irving as the starting MLB) pays off.

McClain wasn't going to sign away from Balitmore without a no-fail starting job, or long-term significant starters money. Why would he? That's the problem with you folks, you assume you can sign any potential FA you want. You can't. A meriad of factors stand in the way.
He took $1.5M less than we gave Mays over the same length contract. That would amount to a nearly 15% pay bump for him. If we could offer any kind of legitimate playing time he likely could have been stolen away with the same contract we gave the Idiot Cannonball.

Yep, Mays is an expensive insurance policy but he's also a known commodity, that is, Fox must know the guy and like him. Mays also has played 1 year in Fox's defense so he's familiar with it. If Irving steps in an lights it up, great, that is fine with me. I have no problem paying Mays $4m to sit on the bench and watch Irving.

Obviously the Broncos expect Woodyard to replace DJ while he sits out. The Broncos may also draft another LBer. We just don't know how the Broncos feel about DJ, for all we know Fox & Company love him.

I agree Mays is pretty one dimensional but the money is already spent. It's a one year contract leaving the Broncos a lot of flexibility next year to address the situation if Irving does not pan out.
Great, the money is already spent. Sure. We can't un-ring that bell. But my point is that the money was poorly spent. Just because we're now locked into it doesn't mean we need to start trying to find excuses for why it was a good move. The best front offices make bad moves every off-season, its all about minimizing the cost of that mistake. This definitely falls into that category of low cost bad moves, but that doesn't mean we need to now trip over ourselves in a rush to sell Mays as something other than a two down, undisciplined MLB.

To further that point, this being a bad move doesn't mean it can't still pay off. Del Rio is a great defensive coach. Mays isn't an untalented player. Something good could be made from this. But giving him $4M a year for the opportunity is a bad cost:payoff ratio. I think even Joe Mays knows this, as he literally ran off a plane to sign this deal instead of even talking with the Colts (who he was scheduled to visit).

fontaine
03-30-2012, 06:58 AM
He took $1.5M less than we gave Mays over the same length contract. That would amount to a nearly 15% pay bump for him. If we could offer any kind of legitimate playing time he likely could have been stolen away with the same contract we gave the Idiot Cannonball.


You just answered your own question. They want Irving to start, McClain wasn't happy with that so that's too bad for him.

Drek
03-30-2012, 07:20 AM
You just answered your own question. They want Irving to start, McClain wasn't happy with that so that's too bad for him.

So your argument is that McClain took less money simply out of fear that Nate Irving would take his job? Seriously?

Teams don't tell guys "we want you to sign here, but you're just a stop gap for this young guy we drafted." McClain was brought in to potentially be our starting MLB and that is what he was being sold on when he came here.

DBroncos4life
03-30-2012, 07:37 AM
So your argument is that McClain took less money simply out of fear that Nate Irving would take his job? Seriously?

Teams don't tell guys "we want you to sign here, but you're just a stop gap for this young guy we drafted." McClain was brought in to potentially be our starting MLB and that is what he was being sold on when he came here.

Call me crazy but I think he took less money to stay a Raven. Also it's not like Lewis will be around for ever. I might think he will be the guy that replace him.

Rabb
03-30-2012, 07:45 AM
Call me crazy but I think he took less money to stay a Raven. Also it's not like Lewis will be around for ever. I might think he will be the guy that replace him.

Yes, and this point is a good one and drives me crazy when people say "why didn't we get *insert player* !!!!" It's almost the same as Bunkley, I have a feeling we offered him something fair and NO went over the top and he signed. But that won't stop people from whining that our FO didn't resign the guy.

Drek
03-30-2012, 07:46 AM
Call me crazy but I think he took less money to stay a Raven. Also it's not like Lewis will be around for ever. I might think he will be the guy that replace him.

He's already a starter for the Ravens. He was looking for real starter money.

How firmly rooted does your head have to be up FO's ass to convince yourself that pro athletes with limited playing careers are turning down significantly more money to stay with their teams and the Broncos FO couldn't bring these guys in as a result?

Soliai, Mebane, McClain, etc. every defensive FA this front office has interest in apparently is so loyal to their own team that they only use other teams to set the price that they will then take a home town discount on. That is one hell of a fantasy.

houghtam
03-30-2012, 07:50 AM
Great, the money is already spent. Sure. We can't un-ring that bell. But my point is that the money was poorly spent. Just because we're now locked into it doesn't mean we need to start trying to find excuses for why it was a good move. The best front offices make bad moves every off-season, its all about minimizing the cost of that mistake.

You're arguing with a couple of brick walls. Apparently how money is spent doesn't matter to these guys, it's good enough that we spent it at all.

fontaine
03-30-2012, 07:51 AM
So your argument is that McClain took less money simply out of fear that Nate Irving would take his job? Seriously?

Teams don't tell guys "we want you to sign here, but you're just a stop gap for this young guy we drafted." McClain was brought in to potentially be our starting MLB and that is what he was being sold on when he came here.

Or it could be he wanted to stay in Baltimore, there could be a bunch of other reasons than the FO just saying "we don't want him because we want to overpay for Mays."

DBroncos4life
03-30-2012, 07:53 AM
Yes, and this point is a good one and drives me crazy when people say "why didn't we get *insert player* !!!!" It's almost the same as Bunkley, I have a feeling we offered him something fair and NO went over the top and he signed. But that won't stop people from whining that our FO didn't resign the guy.

Thank you, really if a guy is willing to take a home town discount like that it should be clear where his heart was in the first place. Denver wants to move forward with Irving and the Ravens have a very old Lewis. What team gives him the best chance to start in the future?

houghtam
03-30-2012, 07:53 AM
How firmly rooted does your head have to be up FO's ass to convince yourself that pro athletes with limited playing careers are turning down significantly more money to stay with their teams and the Broncos FO couldn't bring these guys in as a result?

Come on, Drek, this is the Broncos we're talking about. If a player didn't sign with Denver, obviously A) we didn't want them in the first place, B) they're not really that good after all, or C) they took a discount to go to a hometown team.

It's never that the Broncos weren't offering enough money, aren't an attractive place to go anymore, or that the FO just can't sign them.

Obviously. DUH.

fontaine
03-30-2012, 07:53 AM
You're arguing with a couple of brick walls. Apparently how money is spent doesn't matter to these guys, it's good enough that we spent it at all.

I don't care how money is spent as long as we get a roster that gives us a better chance to win the SuperBowl.

A hall of fame, pro bowl QB that's going to play every offensive snap for example, as opposed to panicing because we haven't replaced a run stopping DT who only played 43% of defensive snaps because he has no pass rush.

houghtam
03-30-2012, 07:55 AM
Thank you, really if a guy is willing to take a home town discount like that it should be clear where his heart was in the first place. Denver wants to move forward with Irving and the Ravens have a very old Lewis. What team gives him the best chance to start in the future?

He's. Already. A. Starter. Has. Been. For. Two. Years. Straight.

Look, we brought him in, tried to sign him, and failed. Deal with it.

DBroncos4life
03-30-2012, 07:56 AM
He's already a starter for the Ravens. He was looking for real starter money.

How firmly rooted does your head have to be up FO's ass to convince yourself that pro athletes with limited playing careers are turning down significantly more money to stay with their teams and the Broncos FO couldn't bring these guys in as a result?

Soliai, Mebane, McClain, etc. every defensive FA this front office has interest in apparently is so loyal to their own team that they only use other teams to set the price that they will then take a home town discount on. That is one hell of a fantasy.

He was looking for starter money and he took that deal? GTFO! You said it yourself Mays might get more money to be a damn back up!

houghtam
03-30-2012, 07:56 AM
I don't care how money is spent as long as we get a roster that gives us a better chance to win the SuperBowl.

Thanks for illustrating my point. You do realize that how you spend your cap affects your chances of winning the Super Bowl, too, right?

Tombstone RJ
03-30-2012, 08:15 AM
Great, the money is already spent. Sure. We can't un-ring that bell. But my point is that the money was poorly spent. Just because we're now locked into it doesn't mean we need to start trying to find excuses for why it was a good move. The best front offices make bad moves every off-season, its all about minimizing the cost of that mistake. This definitely falls into that category of low cost bad moves, but that doesn't mean we need to now trip over ourselves in a rush to sell Mays as something other than a two down, undisciplined MLB.

To further that point, this being a bad move doesn't mean it can't still pay off. Del Rio is a great defensive coach. Mays isn't an untalented player. Something good could be made from this. But giving him $4M a year for the opportunity is a bad cost:payoff ratio. I think even Joe Mays knows this, as he literally ran off a plane to sign this deal instead of even talking with the Colts (who he was scheduled to visit).

You keep going in the same circle because, again, you just like to hear yourself talk. I will again tell you that you are missing the point of the Mays contract. But whatever homey, blather on...

barryr
03-30-2012, 08:21 AM
I thought the Broncos were going to start atracting all of these great free agents for reduced prices?

DBroncos4life
03-30-2012, 08:40 AM
I thought the Broncos were going to start atracting all of these great free agents for reduced prices?

Link?

barryr
03-30-2012, 08:44 AM
Link?

Link? Look at any thread about Manning and posters believing Manning will draw free agents for a free trip to the Super Bowl. Oh, that was 22 words before the period. I thought I'd save you the trouble.

DBroncos4life
03-30-2012, 08:51 AM
Link? Look at any thread about Manning and posters believing Manning will draw free agents for a free trip to the Super Bowl. Oh, that was 22 words before the period. I thought I'd save you the trouble.

Serious question here, what the **** are you talking about?

barryr
03-30-2012, 08:55 AM
Serious question here, what the **** are you talking about?

Don't worry, it went over your head, like most things apparently.

Requiem
03-30-2012, 08:57 AM
Barry is crying because we sent the Bible Thumping QB to New York and we got a quarterback who is a lesser Christian taking our troops into battle.

DBroncos4life
03-30-2012, 08:59 AM
Don't worry, it went over your head, like most things apparently.

Wow you sure got me good ****er. Let me know when you post something that has a ****ing point.

houghtam
03-30-2012, 09:00 AM
Link?

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3510117#post3510117

Well, here's one. You said this:

If tebow can take us that far Manning and the best players from the 10 Colts combined with our team will take us deeper.

Referring to a post earlier in the thread where the assumption was made that all of his Indianapolis teammates from 2010 would follow him. I'll post the original discussion when I find it. And I'll find it.

barryr
03-30-2012, 09:01 AM
Wow you sure got me good ****er. Let me know when you post something that has a ****ing point.

Doesn't stop you from ever responding does it?

DBroncos4life
03-30-2012, 09:01 AM
Barry is crying because we sent the Bible Thumping QB to New York and we got a quarterback who is a lesser Christian taking our troops into battle.
Ha!
Pretty much all I see too.

BroncoBeavis
03-30-2012, 09:03 AM
I thought the Broncos were going to start atracting all of these great free agents for reduced prices?

That was before the Manning signing. Now that Manning signed, anything the Broncos do will, by definition, be the best thing they could have done. If we sign a lackluster FA, they'll go from bench warmers to Pro-Bowlers. If we didn't sign them it's because they were going to be overpaid bums anyway. Who needs 'em!

Kinda like Papal Infallibility, really. Peypal Infallibility, maybe. :)

DBroncos4life
03-30-2012, 09:03 AM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3510117#post3510117

Well, here's one. You said this:


Referring to a post earlier in the thread where the assumption was made that all of his Indianapolis teammates from 2010 would follow him. I'll post the original discussion when I find it. And I'll find it.

When in that post did I say players would sign cheap?

Requiem
03-30-2012, 09:04 AM
He's. Already. A. Starter. Has. Been. For. Two. Years. Straight.

Look, we brought him in, tried to sign him, and failed. Deal with it.

Looks like both players stayed at home in the end. Think about that.

DBroncos4life
03-30-2012, 09:05 AM
Doesn't stop you from ever responding does it?

So????

barryr
03-30-2012, 09:05 AM
Barry is crying because we sent the Bible Thumping QB to New York and we got a quarterback who is a lesser Christian taking our troops into battle.

And there is always psycho boy ready to include himself to ttack posters with no content about the thread and sending threats in messages at all hours to posters to boot. Like 20 posters by now you have done this to? Maybe you could try something different for a day at least so you could ever be taken seriously.

barryr
03-30-2012, 09:06 AM
So????

LOL

DBroncos4life
03-30-2012, 09:08 AM
LOL

LOL

barryr
03-30-2012, 09:08 AM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3510117#post3510117

Well, here's one. You said this:


Referring to a post earlier in the thread where the assumption was made that all of his Indianapolis teammates from 2010 would follow him. I'll post the original discussion when I find it. And I'll find it.

LOL, thanks, he even posted it himself. Oh man, he really is boy wonder LOL

DBroncos4life
03-30-2012, 09:10 AM
LOL, thanks, he even posted it himself. Oh man, he really is boy wonder LOL

So I said they would come play at a discounted price in that post. Gotcha! ****ing retard.

barryr
03-30-2012, 09:12 AM
So I said they would come play at a discounted price in that post. Gotcha! ****ing retard.

Why not? Manning is here so they must want to flock to wherever he goes, just like all of those great free agent defensive players the Colts had been signing. Keep showing me your "knowledge."

DBroncos4life
03-30-2012, 09:19 AM
Why not? Manning is here so they must want to flock to wherever he goes, just like all of those great free agent defensive players the Colts had been signing. Keep showing me your "knowledge."

Why not? Cause I didn't say a damn thing about players signing at a discount. Sorry I speculated something on a message board. I know its rare and I'm like the only person ever to do it.

This is like you trying to claim I said something about those DBs being over 30 when I didn't. Ha!

barryr
03-30-2012, 09:21 AM
Why not? Cause I didn't say a damn thing about players signing at a discount. Sorry I speculated something on a message board. I know its rare and I'm like the only person ever to do it.

This is like you trying to claim I said something about those DBs being over 30 when I didn't. Ha!

Oh, so you were speculating? When someone else speculates, you want links and start counting words in sentences. I see.

Requiem
03-30-2012, 09:24 AM
Why not? Cause I didn't say a damn thing about players signing at a discount. Sorry I speculated something on a message board. I know its rare and I'm like the only person ever to do it.

This is like you trying to claim I said something about those DBs being over 30 when I didn't. Ha!

bury this douche. get him DB!!!

houghtam
03-30-2012, 09:32 AM
Here's an entire thread devoted to the idea that Saturday, Wayne and Clark would follow Manning.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=104074

DBroncos4life
03-30-2012, 09:34 AM
Oh, so you were speculating? When someone else speculates, you want links and start counting words in sentences. I see.

So you were speculating posters claimed Manning would get players here at s discounted price?

DBroncos4life
03-30-2012, 09:46 AM
Here's an entire thread devoted to the idea that Saturday, Wayne and Clark would follow Manning.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=104074

Thanks that's the thread where I pointed out Tamme. Damn I'm good!!

houghtam
03-30-2012, 09:54 AM
Thanks that's the thread where I pointed out Tamme. Damn I'm good!!

Just for the record, barryr simply was referring to the argument that was ubiquitous before Manning was signed. He never said you supported it, and when you asked for a link, you never asked for a link clarifying that you were one of the ones that supported that argument.

It was just a coincidence that I went back and found the quote where you implied that all the best players from the 2010 Colts would follow him.

BroncoBeavis
03-30-2012, 10:06 AM
It was just a coincidence that I went back and found the quote where you implied that all the best players from the 2010 Colts would follow him.

This gets into the doctrine of Peypal Predetermination.

Had any of the 2010 Colts followed Manning, they would've been the good ones. Since none of them did, it's because they sucked and weren't worth our time.

All things work to the better of the Broncos through Manning his Holiness. :)

TonyR
03-30-2012, 11:05 AM
Here's an entire thread devoted to the idea that Saturday, Wayne and Clark would follow Manning.

To be fair, Saturday was overpaid by a more desperate team (GB lost their starter in FA), Wayne re-signed with Indy well before Manning agreed with Denver, and Clark is washed up and hasn't signed with anybody yet.

houghtam
03-30-2012, 11:09 AM
To be fair, Saturday was overpaid by a more desperate team (GB lost their starter in FA), Wayne re-signed with Indy well before Manning agreed with Denver, and Clark is washed up and hasn't signed with anybody yet.

Right?

But how does this change the fact that there were numerous people claiming that they (and the ominous "other free agents") would be more willing to come to Denver, and they were subsequently incorrect.

Next it will be "To be fair, the hit that ended Manning's career would have ended anyone's career" when the argument was that Manning's neck is stronger than ever and he never gets sacked, even though we have a ****ty offensive line.

DBroncos4life
03-30-2012, 11:37 AM
Right?

But how does this change the fact that there were numerous people claiming that they (and the ominous "other free agents") would be more willing to come to Denver, and they were subsequently incorrect.

Next it will be "To be fair, the hit that ended Manning's career would have ended anyone's career" when the argument was that Manning's neck is stronger than ever and he never gets sacked, even though we have a ****ty offensive line.

Keep banging that drum dude.

houghtam
03-30-2012, 11:40 AM
Keep banging that drum dude.

Okay dude.

DBroncos4life
03-30-2012, 11:41 AM
Okay dude.

Its clear you want the Manning lead Broncos to fail.

houghtam
03-30-2012, 11:45 AM
Its clear you want the Manning lead Broncos to fail.

Just like I wanted the Orton-led Broncos to fail, right?

As I've said a million times, there's a difference between thinking something won't work and rooting for it not to.

DBroncos4life
03-30-2012, 11:48 AM
Just like I wanted the Orton-led Broncos to fail, right?

As I've said a million times, there's a difference between thinking something won't work and rooting for it not to.
Yeah Manning has a long history of failing like Orton. LOL

houghtam
03-30-2012, 11:53 AM
Yeah Manning has a long history of failing like Orton. LOL

You're an idiot.

You're right, I should have used a different FO decision that I felt was wrong at the time to point out how utterly stupid your assertion is that I want the Broncos to fail since I disagree with a move they make.

DBroncos4life
03-30-2012, 12:22 PM
You're an idiot.

You're right, I should have used a different FO decision that I felt was wrong at the time to point out how utterly stupid your assertion is that I want the Broncos to fail since I disagree with a move they make.

Care to make a bet who starts more games over the next two years? Manning or Tebow?

houghtam
03-30-2012, 12:29 PM
Care to make a bet who starts more games over the next two years? Manning or Tebow?

Absolutely.

I'll also place a side bet that Tebow starts 8+ games more than Manning in 2013, and that Manning is out of the NFL by 2014, while Tebow is still active.

DBroncos4life
03-30-2012, 12:31 PM
Absolutely.

I'll also place a side bet that Tebow starts 8+ games more than Manning in 2013, and that Manning is out of the NFL by 2014, while Tebow is still active.

Ha ha ha deal. Name the bet.

Cito Pelon
03-30-2012, 01:26 PM
Thank you, really if a guy is willing to take a home town discount like that it should be clear where his heart was in the first place. Denver wants to move forward with Irving and the Ravens have a very old Lewis. What team gives him the best chance to start in the future?

Ya know, I think your logic is failing a little bit. If they brought in McClain, then obviously they're hedging their bets on Irving. And if they re-signed Mays, then obviously they're hedging their bets on Irving.

You don't know what they offered McClain, but obviously it wasn't attractive enough.

barryr
03-30-2012, 03:27 PM
So you were speculating posters claimed Manning would get players here at s discounted price?

No, speculating if you could make any sense and seem intelligent on any subject.

DBroncos4life
03-30-2012, 03:53 PM
No, speculating if you could make any sense and seem intelligent on any subject.

I'm still waiting for you to explain what the **** the count of words in a sentence has to do with me! Ha!

barryr
03-30-2012, 08:10 PM
I'm still waiting for you to explain what the **** the count of words in a sentence has to do with me! Ha!

Since you are the one that posted such a thing in the past, that just might be the reason. Duh.

DBroncos4life
03-30-2012, 08:22 PM
Since you are the one that posted such a thing in the past, that just might be the reason. Duh.

Care to show me my quote?

barryr
03-30-2012, 08:26 PM
Care to show me my quote?

And waste even more time on you than I already have? If you can't remember doing that in a response to a post from me then that shows you have done it more than once to others as well.

DBroncos4life
03-30-2012, 08:42 PM
And waste even more time on you than I already have? If you can't remember doing that in a response to a post from me then that shows you have done it more than once to others as well.
Dude you are a ****ing tool LOL
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=104145&highlight=trufant

Here is the thread where you started babbling about word counts. Find my post or shut the **** up.

barryr
03-30-2012, 08:53 PM
Dude you are a ****ing tool LOL
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=104145&highlight=trufant

Here is the thread where you started babbling about word counts. Find my post or shut the **** up.

Probably because you did it in a different thread goof. Try posting more about say possible Bronco draft choices and prospects instead of this moronic stuff every day so then I might think you have an ounce of sense and knowledge on something at least. As for shutting up, it was also you who started in with following me around, posting nonsense after posts I made that had nothing to do with content of the thread. So if you don't like what I post, then skip it. It isn't that hard a concept. Notice I only seem to respond to your posts when directed at me since I pretty much skip the rest since not too interesting, but if this is all you want to do, then find someone else to follow and argue with. I don't need a fan club.

DBroncos4life
03-30-2012, 08:56 PM
Probably because you did it in a different thread goof. Try posting more about say possible Bronco draft choices and prospects instead of this moronic stuff every day so then I might think you have an ounce of sense and knowledge on something at least. As for shutting up, it was also you who started in with following me around, posting nonsense after posts I made that had nothing to do with content of the thread. So if you don't like what I post, then skip it. It isn't that hard a concept. Notice I only seem to respond to your posts when directed at me since I pretty much skip the rest since not too interesting, but if this is all you want to do, then find someone else to follow and argue with. I don't need a fan club.

You know I didn't say it you ****tard. If you could prove it you would. ROFL!

Bronco Rob
04-02-2012, 05:56 AM
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/03/29/2011-run-stop-percentage-linebackers/

TonyR
04-02-2012, 07:32 AM
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/03/29/2011-run-stop-percentage-linebackers/

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3543918&postcount=105

Bronco Rob
04-02-2012, 07:45 AM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3543918&postcount=105



Sorry Tony....didn't see that.