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Drek
03-16-2012, 04:34 AM
So after letting Miami steal Soliai back from us here's what I see as the remaining DT market:

Bunkley - clearly not taking a home town discount. Guy played his best football in college right before the draft, then was a nobody in the NFL until his contract year. Do we really want to pay this guy full market value?

Jason Jones - Great interior pass rusher at DT, little small to do well in run support. Likely won't come super cheap as the Rams, Titans, and I believe one or two other teams are kicking the tires. Fits exactly what we should be looking for though as part of a three or four man DT rotation.

Amobi Okoye - We were interested last year but got outbid by Chicago. While there he was a rotational DT who had 4 sacks. He's back on the market and would seem like a great low cost alternative to Jason Jones. Chicago supposedly wants him back. Why we haven't made a push for him yet is beyond me.

Marcus Thomas - mediocre DT that people keep acting like has real potential. I'm betting he's back again next year for only a little more than he made this year. Don't see any other team spending big on him.

Old retreads - Antonio Garay, Abreyo Franklin, Shaun Rogers, Tommie Harris. None of these guys are a real answer and don't have much left in the tank even if they were. I wouldn't be surprised if we wind up sticking one of them on the roster though.

Young unprovens - Brandon McKinney, Pat Sims, Andre Fluellen, etc. A bunch of mid-20's guys who have never won a starting job. I mention these three by name because at least they're playing on lines with worthwhile DTs in front of them. You would like to think our scouting department could pick out one or two guys worth adding here as opposed to letting an outright scrub like Unrein remain on the roster.

Way I see it we need to add three DTs in some fashion at a minimum. Warren can't be trusted to ever be healthy again. Vickerson will be back but McBean is likely to miss the first 1/3rd of the season. So we need three in order to have a four man rotation that can grow to five depending on if Warren is healthy or when McBean returns. Unrein should not suit up for this team ever again if we're serious about having solid DTs next year.

On the run stuffing front we either need to bet on a broke down vet, hope to find a steal from another team's depth chart, or take on the risk that Bunkley was playing for his next contract last season. None of those are great options, and this is why we should have broke the bank for Soliai if needed, but that is neither here nor there.

As far as finally maybe generating some pass rush out of the DT spot, well, that is a rare skill to find. There happens to be two DTs available this FA period with just that skill, but we haven't pursued them yet. If we could land one it would be excellent. Otherwise we're praying for something in the draft.

Overall the options are rather depressing. I'd say ideal world we resign Bunkley, add Okoye, and then spend our first round pick on a well rounded DT like Still. I'd feel ok going into the 2012 season with those guys plus Vickerson and the Warren/McBean injury/suspension risks. Especially if we threw a big boy run stuffer type onto the practice squad from a later round pick or UDFA signing.

Worst case scenario, and what I think is much more likely, is that we let Bunkley walk, resign Thomas to supposedly give us some pass rush, avoid drafting DT until the later rounds if at all, and sign one of the old vets I mentioned above to be a run stuffer. So something like Shaun Rogers, Marcus Thomas, and nobody else. Ensuring that Unrein is still playing real minutes while Warren rides IR again, McBean is out the first six games, and the old vet we add is on and off the roster with injuries while also being generally ineffective when on the field himself.

Bronco Rob
03-16-2012, 04:42 AM
What type of deal is Bunkley looking for? Why on earth would they let him walk after Soliai got away? I trust this regimes ability to gage talent on the defensive side of the ball but I can not imagine they would let Bunkley bail unless he wants topshelf money.

TonyR
03-16-2012, 06:36 AM
Add Trevor Laws to your list of "unprovens" who are available.

barryr
03-16-2012, 06:44 AM
The Broncos shouldn't waste their time with either Thomas or McBean. Neither make enough plays to help the defense become better. Warren is iffy, DT's with injury problems tend to stay that way, so banking on him probably isn't wise either.

Bunkley is a need re-sign IMO in that he was effective at times and still young enough to keep being effective. If only able to sign old retreads, then I would rather they just draft a couple DT's at some point in the draft since they can likely produce as much as any of those guys.

gyldenlove
03-16-2012, 06:48 AM
I would have said to go after Aubrayo Franklin, but he proved in New Orleans that he is not a good fit for the type of front we play.

As of right now, Jason Jones, Bunkley and Pat Sims are 3 guys I like.

Rohirrim
03-16-2012, 07:10 AM
The Broncos haven't given a damn about the position in twenty years. Why would that change this year? On the Broncos values list, punter comes before DT.

Jetmeck
03-16-2012, 07:25 AM
wake up. we need real help here......................

maher_tyler
03-16-2012, 07:40 AM
The Broncos haven't given a damn about the position in twenty years. Why would that change this year? On the Broncos values list, punter comes before DT.

So it seems!! It's very frustrating to say the least.

rugbythug
03-16-2012, 07:54 AM
Broncos offered more money to solai he took a home town discount. They did pay him 12 million last year maybe he felt guilty.

Eddie mac said jones has dropped to 245lbs that is bad.

I am betting bunkley is out trying to find bigger cash when he can't he will ne back.
Thomas is ok good rotational player. He will ham every now and again.

Jamaal mcleen- more important than any of the fa dt available.

eddie mac
03-16-2012, 09:39 AM
I would have Kendall Langford on that list, probably at the top of it, wants to return to Miami but I see him as a better 4-3 UT than a 3-4 end.

broncosteven
03-16-2012, 10:21 AM
Did Anthony Adams sign somewhere? He is a dependable NT who loves to take on 2 guys and control gap assignment. He kept the OL off Briggs & Urlicker in Chitown. I think he would be a solid rotational guy who has at least 5 or more quality years left in him.

Swedish Extrovert
03-16-2012, 10:36 AM
Amobi Okoye would be interesting... that's a good point about Bunkley, though. There should be some discount for him due to the risk involved. Maybe an incentive-laden contract...

RaiderH8r
03-16-2012, 10:37 AM
I like the idea of making a run at Okoye.

barryr
03-16-2012, 10:39 AM
Did Anthony Adams sign somewhere? He is a dependable NT who loves to take on 2 guys and control gap assignment. He kept the OL off Briggs & Urlicker in Chitown. I think he would be a solid rotational guy who has at least 5 or more quality years left in him.

Adams turns 32 in June, so you really think he has at least 5 quality years left in him? Maybe 1 or 2, if even that.

broncosteven
03-16-2012, 10:48 AM
Adams turns 32 in June, so you really think he has at least 5 quality years left in him? Maybe 1 or 2, if even that.

Traylor and Washington played until they were 40. He would be a good rotational guy.

barryr
03-16-2012, 10:49 AM
Traylor and Washington played until they were 40. He would be a good rotational guy.

They were also 340 pounds and had more a rep of being good space eaters. Anthony Adams?

Swedish Extrovert
03-16-2012, 10:53 AM
The Broncos haven't given a damn about the position in twenty years. Why would that change this year? On the Broncos values list, punter comes before DT.

I think Jack Del Rio, who has always had great DTs as a cornerstone of his defenses, would disagree with you.

SimonFletcher73
03-16-2012, 10:53 AM
Re-sign Marcus Thomas based solely on this.

http://broncotalk.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/MarcusThomasDance.gif.gif

cutthemdown
03-16-2012, 11:04 AM
LOL let Dolphins steal Soliai. People need to realize Broncos made him a good offer he chose to stay with the buddies and city he had been in. You have to realize some people don't like change and will chose to stay where things are familiar.

Its not always a teams choice and you can't make ridiculously high offers just to get a guy to sign. That is why Oakland in so much trouble right now.

We should sign Wimbley if he wants to play here. Make him a reasonable offer see what happens. Him opposite Doom on 3rd downs, with Ayers kicked inside, Miller off the edge would be something.,

vancejohnson82
03-16-2012, 11:11 AM
what is a DT???

Killericon
03-16-2012, 11:14 AM
Franklin and Okoye, please.

cutthemdown
03-16-2012, 11:26 AM
Franklin and Okoye both played average last yr. That is why people shouldnt get too excited about FA. There is a reason the are FA all the time.

RaiderH8r
03-16-2012, 11:27 AM
Abraham out.

ward63
03-16-2012, 12:08 PM
I would have said to go after Aubrayo Franklin, but he proved in New Orleans that he is not a good fit for the type of front we play.

As of right now, Jason Jones, Bunkley and Pat Sims are 3 guys I like.

I second that!

Killericon
03-16-2012, 12:35 PM
Abraham out.

You may wanna check the thread title again.

Drek
03-16-2012, 01:41 PM
I would have Kendall Langford on that list, probably at the top of it, wants to return to Miami but I see him as a better 4-3 UT than a 3-4 end.

He would be an awesome pickup, didn't even think of him, but he's getting a lot of interest. Wouldn't be surprised if he priced himself out of our reach.

Franklin and Okoye both played average last yr. That is why people shouldnt get too excited about FA. There is a reason the are FA all the time.
Are they better than Unrein and McBean? Right now those two guys are looking at serious minutes even if Warren and Vickerson are 100%.

Other than Unrein not a single DT on our team is going to be under 28 when this season starts too.

See the appeal of Okoye? Even if he costs a bit more than he's worth now you are still getting a 25 year old who is a significant upgrade over your current #3 option. And an overpay for Okoye is what, giving him $3M instead of the $2M he's probably actually worth? That is the kind of overpay you can live with. Its not like he's going to command a huge bonus, so if he doesn't live up to the deal at all you can just cut him free next year.

These are the signings I keep talking about when you come into threads and start your "the FO knows better than all of you!" rants. A lot of lower cost mid-20's guys are looking for a chance to prove themselves in this league. You can generally get them to take pretty reasonable money if they think its a chance to win a starting job and move up in the league. Hence why our interest in Jameel McClain is great. 26, ready for a chance to establish himself as a starter and maybe even something more than that. Those are the kinds of guys we need to be chasing at every position, most notably DT where we have so much room for competition.

Worst case scenario for an Okoye signing is that he comes here and we resign Bunkley, then draft an early round rookie. Okoye gets beat out by everyone, making him the 5th guy on the depth chart (behind Warren, Bunk, Vick, and the rookie). We cut him next year and its a few million under the bridge. Now if instead we sign him, Warren still can't play, we fail to draft an early round DT worth a damn, Bunkley goes elsewhere, etc. and we suddenly see Okoye break out as an every day guy? Well then its a huge steal.

That is a risk/reward proposition we should be drooling over.

Killericon
03-16-2012, 01:43 PM
A rotation of Warren, Franklin, Okoye and a draftee would satisfy me.

barryr
03-16-2012, 07:19 PM
Other than QB's, it seems DT's tend to have so many busts drafted early in drafts. The Broncos could use a great DT, just like 28 other teams. This draft is deep in DT's, but none appear to be potential great pass rushers and have the look of a guy like Bunkley. Guys that can stop the run, if that, but no dominant kind of guys. Sure, it is possible one or more can develop into awesome pass rushers but anyone know for a fact who they will be? No, it's just a guessing game. That is why I would wait until the 2nd round at the earliest to draft one. Oh, and Poe, the guy from Memphis who was great at the combine has the look of a complete bust. Played on a bad team, played in a bad conference and his put up mediocre stats in which someone who put up the kind of numbers he did at the combine, you'd expect to dominate at least some games in that weak conference. But he didn't, but he will be great in the NFL? Not likely.

cutthemdown
03-16-2012, 08:09 PM
Broncos need to get Bunkley back, get Vickerson and Warren healthy. I still think biggest need is corner and linebacker. Especially with DJ suspended and Woodyard on the FA list.

cutthemdown
03-16-2012, 08:09 PM
Bunkley hasnt visited anywhere. That could mean that his agent and the Broncos feel they will get a deal worked out.

SoCalBronco
03-16-2012, 08:14 PM
Worst case scenario, and what I think is much more likely, is that we let Bunkley walk, resign Thomas to supposedly give us some pass rush, avoid drafting DT until the later rounds if at all, and sign one of the old vets I mentioned above to be a run stuffer. So something like Shaun Rogers, Marcus Thomas, and nobody else. Ensuring that Unrein is still playing real minutes while Warren rides IR again, McBean is out the first six games, and the old vet we add is on and off the roster with injuries while also being generally ineffective when on the field himself.

Yeah, that's kind of what I'm seeing.

cutthemdown
03-16-2012, 08:29 PM
I just don't see those players as good players Drek. The seem just like journeyman DT. They are probably better then Unrien, but lets wait and see if he makes team.

Still lots of action yet. Could be a trade, could move around in the draft you never know.

I just like to be patient because I thought last yr Elway did a good job. Bunkley played well and everyone on the board, well most everyone hated that trade.

If he lets Bunk walk, doesn't make any moves at DT, then yeah i will start wondering whats going on.

Drek
03-16-2012, 08:50 PM
I just don't see those players as good players Drek. The seem just like journeyman DT. They are probably better then Unrien, but lets wait and see if he makes team.

Still lots of action yet. Could be a trade, could move around in the draft you never know.

I just like to be patient because I thought last yr Elway did a good job. Bunkley played well and everyone on the board, well most everyone hated that trade.

If he lets Bunk walk, doesn't make any moves at DT, then yeah i will start wondering whats going on.

No one hated the Bunkley trade. Find me one person on here who outright hated it. A lot of people were underwhelmed after having an entire locked out spring of the FO saying "we're definitely getting some DT help this off-season!" then nothing in the draft. That was followed by "don't worry, we'll get it in FA." Then they low ball Mebane, wait on showing interest in Jenkins until he's all but signed by Philly, and never even call Coefield.

You act like getting Bunkley was part of some master plan too. It wasn't. They got lucky as hell to even get him. He WAS traded to Cleveland at one point last season and that only fell through for medical reasons. A medical issue that our team apparently had no issues with (at least not at the reduced price we paid). It took extra ordinary circumstances for him to even be available and then it was still a gamble that his knee was legit and he'd show up motivated.

Meanwhile they gave Warren only marginally less than what Mebane and Jenkins got, both far better values for their contracts than Warren.

I see no reason to view how they conducted last off-season as a good sign of things to come at all. They had a postponed off-season giving the new FO and coaches ample time to catch up with the rest of the league before FA opened. When it did they avoided a great class of CBs who mostly signed for very reasonable value. They avoided a solid DT class until the last minute when we grabbed a couple scrap heap guys. They did nothing to address the obvious issue of Joe Mays being a full time player in a 4-3. No quality depth on the OL. I could go on.

We got VERY lucky last off-season. Picture what 2011 looks like if we have even one serious injury on the OL during the regular season. Who fills in?

What if Champ suddenly does decline or if he had been hurt for more than a few games early on in the year?

What would the season have looked like if Tebow didn't pull off so many late season comebacks that no one expected?

This team was VERY close to being just as bad as the 2010 club and the improvements were largely in spite of this FO's efforts. Now we walk into an off-season where the "new management" excuse isn't valid. Where the "wanting to see what we have" excuse is not valid. Where the "we've got a lot of picks to build with" excuse is not valid. We are in an FA market that once again could fill our needs. Chances are you could say the same thing for next year too. But if we're never going to make use of it then what's the point?

One part of the competition in the NFL is conducted on the field. Another part is conducted in the conference rooms around the league. Our inability to construct a worthwhile approach to make use of FA as a weapon to improve would be the equivalent of us opting completely out of using the forward pass.

Elway seems very quick to rush Tebow out the door because he might not be an optimal pocket passer. If he (and Bronco fans supporting their failures in the free agent market) would judge his own work objectively he'd see that Tebow is a far better passer than Elway, Xanders, and company have been at judging the FA market now going on two seasons.

*edit* Also, you call them journeymen. Well what was Ed McCaffery before he came here? What was Wes Welker? What was Priest Holmes? A host of very good NFL players have and will continue to be found by a team savvy enough to spot who's backups are ready to break out and then grabbing them as they hit FA. Okoye is only 24 and if nothing else is a worthwhile rush DT. McClain looks to have future starter written all over him. Soliai is better than any DT we've had since Pryce was bumped out to end.

Even if they don't break out for us this team flat out lacks depth right now. We don't go from a first string of solid starters to a second string of older journeymen and high upside youth at this point. Right now the old journeymen and high upside youth are being asked to turn into solid starters while almost the entire second string would fail to make any other team's roster if we released them. We need young but battle tested depth just as much as we need a few more play makers.

barryr
03-16-2012, 08:56 PM
No one hated the Bunkley trade. Find me one person on here who outright hated it. A lot of people were underwhelmed after having an entire locked out spring of the FO saying "we're definitely getting some DT help this off-season!" then nothing in the draft. That was followed by "don't worry, we'll get it in FA." Then they low ball Mebane, wait on showing interest in Jenkins until he's all but signed by Philly, and never even call Coefield.

You act like getting Bunkley was part of some master plan too. It wasn't. They got lucky as hell to even get him. He WAS traded to Cleveland at one point last season and that only fell through for medical reasons. A medical issue that our team apparently had no issues with (at least not at the reduced price we paid). It took extra ordinary circumstances for him to even be available and then it was still a gamble that his knee was legit and he'd show up motivated.

Meanwhile they gave Warren only marginally less than what Mebane and Jenkins got, both far better values for their contracts than Warren.

I see no reason to view how they conducted last off-season as a good sign of things to come at all. They had a postponed off-season giving the new FO and coaches ample time to catch up with the rest of the league before FA opened. When it did they avoided a great class of CBs who mostly signed for very reasonable value. They avoided a solid DT class until the last minute when we grabbed a couple scrap heap guys. They did nothing to address the obvious issue of Joe Mays being a full time player in a 4-3. No quality depth on the OL. I could go on.

We got VERY lucky last off-season. Picture what 2011 looks like if we have even one serious injury on the OL during the regular season. Who fills in?

What if Champ suddenly does decline or if he had been hurt for more than a few games early on in the year?

What would the season have looked like if Tebow didn't pull off so many late season comebacks that no one expected?

This team was VERY close to being just as bad as the 2010 club and the improvements were largely in spite of this FO's efforts. Now we walk into an off-season where the "new management" excuse isn't valid. Where the "wanting to see what we have" excuse is not valid. Where the "we've got a lot of picks to build with" excuse is not valid. We are in an FA market that once again could fill our needs. Chances are you could say the same thing for next year too. But if we're never going to make use of it then what's the point?

One part of the competition in the NFL is conducted on the field. Another part is conducted in the conference rooms around the league. Our inability to construct a worthwhile approach to make use of FA as a weapon to improve would be the equivalent of us opting completely out of using the forward pass.

Elway seems very quick to rush Tebow out the door because he might not be an optimal pocket passer. If he (and Bronco fans supporting their failures in the free agent market) would judge his own work objectively he'd see that Tebow is a far better passer than Elway, Xanders, and company have been at judging the FA market now going on two seasons.

There were some who questioned the Bunkley signing, mainly because failing a physical with the Browns and wondering then if he is even really healthy or not.

Bottom line with Tebow is Tebow was not an Elway or Fox pick and they want their own QB. They would wait for a young QB to develop, but one they sign or draft, not one they inherited.

The Broncos have spent too many years using bandaids and patches to "fix" the defense and now that they have some money, one would expect to be signing some of the better talent. It appears the Broncos think they just need the middle tier type of players and are Super Bowl bound if signing Manning.

Drek
03-16-2012, 09:09 PM
There were some who questioned the Bunkley signing, mainly because failing a physical with the Browns and wondering then if he is even really healthy or not.
Sure, but for how little they gave up no one bitched about it. Just a general feeling of "meh".

Bottom line with Tebow is Tebow was not an Elway or Fox pick and they want their own QB. They would wait for a young QB to develop, but one they sign or draft, not one they inherited.
Which is idiotic since he just took the team to the playoffs for the first time since '05 and won the first playoff game in the same time frame. If they had a clue about building a team they'd use Tim Tebow's stardom as a free pass with the fans at QB while they filled out the rest of the roster, starting with the defense and OL.

The Broncos have spent too many years using bandaids and patches to "fix" the defense and now that they have some money, one would expect to be signing some of the better talent. It appears the Broncos think they just need the middle tier type of players and are Super Bowl bound if signing Manning.
We aren't signing middle tiers though. Middle tiers would be fine as that constitutes guys like McClain and Okoye. Instead the FO is apparently waiting for castoffs to fall in their laps.

With each passing day it comes more and more clear that one of the key reasons they're even in on Manning is that he gives them a built in excuse to dump Tebow. This isn't about winning a title. If so they would have had a plan in place on how to pursue Manning without neglecting all our other needs and MLB, #2 CB, DT, etc. would be getting addressed. Not paid lip service to by our DC who has been on the job all of two months while everyone with the ability to make decisions are off stroking Manning's ego.

Jetmeck
03-16-2012, 09:20 PM
[QUOTE=Drek;3522632]Which is idiotic since he just took the team to the playoffs for the first time since '05 and won the first playoff game in the same time frame. If they had a clue about building a team they'd use Tim Tebow's stardom as a free pass with the fans at QB while they filled out the rest of the roster, starting with the defense and OL.


WE could build this team defensively to be a monster right now with the cash we have and the draft. We should be making some moves right now.

As FOR the offense a receiver, te, rb and maybe an OL upgrade in one position and run with Tebow. If he tanks with talent around him and a good defense so be it he deserves to be traded. At least try with him. You would have everyTHing else in place but a QB if TT fails but I don't think that will be the case.

This all our eggs in one basket blowing 100 mill on Manning is utter
BS..............................

barryr
03-16-2012, 09:35 PM
Sure, but for how little they gave up no one b****ed about it. Just a general feeling of "meh".


Which is idiotic since he just took the team to the playoffs for the first time since '05 and won the first playoff game in the same time frame. If they had a clue about building a team they'd use Tim Tebow's stardom as a free pass with the fans at QB while they filled out the rest of the roster, starting with the defense and OL.


We aren't signing middle tiers though. Middle tiers would be fine as that constitutes guys like McClain and Okoye. Instead the FO is apparently waiting for castoffs to fall in their laps.

With each passing day it comes more and more clear that one of the key reasons they're even in on Manning is that he gives them a built in excuse to dump Tebow. This isn't about winning a title. If so they would have had a plan in place on how to pursue Manning without neglecting all our other needs and MLB, #2 CB, DT, etc. would be getting addressed. Not paid lip service to by our DC who has been on the job all of two months while everyone with the ability to make decisions are off stroking Manning's ego.

I do remember some bashing the McGahee signing and saying he was old and just a backup with the Ravens, so he turned out well, at least last season.

But I don't disagree with anything you wrote, in fact, I tend to agree with most everything you write.

I was not for the pursuit of Manning in the beginning, mainly because I didn't see this roster as Super Bowl caliber and the fact they promised Tebow he was the starter going into TC and signing Manning would mean Tebow lost the job even before the draft.

It does appear they will do all they can to rid of having to play Tebow and I'm afraid if they lose out on Manning now, they will do something stupid.

But I feel they have no other choice now but to do all they can to sign Manning since they will be stuck with an Alex Smith type or overdraft a QB in the draft who won't really be ready to play. And they have to deal Tebow since he can never really believe a thing they tell him anymore. They are not interested in trying to develop Tebow since he was not their guy.

Punisher
03-16-2012, 10:42 PM
what is a DT???

lol

cutthemdown
03-16-2012, 11:05 PM
We did have some breaks last yr, but even had we missed playoffs about what i expected. IMO Cofield, Mebane etc that you seem to pine over probably would not have changed the bottom line. Neither are real explosive front 7 guys. I do wish Broncos would have looked at a few guys this yr. Namely Nicks, Mario Williams, but Mebane last yr? lol cmon. Besides like Soliai this yr he went back to original team. You don't know they wanted to leave. Often they go get another offer to show team what they are worth, then sign a deal.

TonyR
03-17-2012, 07:51 AM
With each passing day it comes more and more clear that one of the key reasons they're even in on Manning is that he gives them a built in excuse to dump Tebow. This isn't about winning a title. If so they would have had a plan in place on how to pursue Manning without neglecting all our other needs and MLB, #2 CB, DT, etc. would be getting addressed. Not paid lip service to by our DC who has been on the job all of two months while everyone with the ability to make decisions are off stroking Manning's ego.

I have a feeling that if we land Manning we'll see several other players brought in, whereas if we don't we won't see much of anything. So it will either be all in to win with Manning or move forward with plans to draft a QB high next year.

tsiguy96
03-17-2012, 08:13 AM
can we call this a bust at fixing the defense? havent signed anyone

BroncoBeavis
03-17-2012, 08:21 AM
I do remember some bashing the McGahee signing and saying he was old and just a backup with the Ravens, so he turned out well, at least last season.

But I don't disagree with anything you wrote, in fact, I tend to agree with most everything you write.

I was not for the pursuit of Manning in the beginning, mainly because I didn't see this roster as Super Bowl caliber and the fact they promised Tebow he was the starter going into TC and signing Manning would mean Tebow lost the job even before the draft.

It does appear they will do all they can to rid of having to play Tebow and I'm afraid if they lose out on Manning now, they will do something stupid.

But I feel they have no other choice now but to do all they can to sign Manning since they will be stuck with an Alex Smith type or overdraft a QB in the draft who won't really be ready to play. And they have to deal Tebow since he can never really believe a thing they tell him anymore. They are not interested in trying to develop Tebow since he was not their guy.

They can't deal Tebow without Manning, they just can't. Especially with how they've completely dicked over the roster this offseason. If they dish Tebow and fall apart (as looks likely with their offseason of genius) they can't follow plan B which would be to blame 100% of the team's failure on Tebow so they have an excuse to move on.

Next season is shaping up to be like the football version of Major League. A group of scrubs fighting for their football lives against an owner/front office actively trying to bury them. I know who I'll be rooting for.

Old Dude
03-17-2012, 08:34 AM
The most successful teams use free agency mainly as a way to insure that they can go after the BPAs in the draft (regardless of position).

I think Denver has already gotten an upgrade at safety, and they should be able upgrade the MLB spot and get some depth in the secondary.

Still, it's hard to imagine what they plan to do with all this cap room.

Who knows. Maybe they try to engineer a trade or two.

tsiguy96
03-17-2012, 08:43 AM
The most successful teams use free agency mainly as a way to insure that they can go after the BPAs in the draft (regardless of position).

I think Denver has already gotten an upgrade at safety, and they should be able upgrade the MLB spot and get some depth in the secondary.

Still, it's hard to imagine what they plan to do with all this cap room.

Who knows. Maybe they try to engineer a trade or two.

they need to get mcclain, move DJ outside, resign bunkley (even though he will probably be a saint today). geno hayes would be a nice addition if even to replace woodyard.

TonyR
03-17-2012, 08:46 AM
../.resign bunkley (even though he will probably be a saint today)...

I'm trying to talk myself into the return of Vickerson and Warren making the loss of Bunkley not that big of a deal. But I haven't yet convinced myself...

LonghornBronco
03-17-2012, 08:48 AM
Does anyone know if we even offered Bunkley a contract yet?

tsiguy96
03-17-2012, 08:49 AM
Does anyone know if we even offered Bunkley a contract yet?

they had to of, reports came out on monday that they were trying to get a last minute deal done.

barryr
03-17-2012, 08:49 AM
They can't deal Tebow without Manning, they just can't. Especially with how they've completely dicked over the roster this offseason. If they dish Tebow and fall apart (as looks likely with their offseason of genius) they can't follow plan B which would be to blame 100% of the team's failure on Tebow so they have an excuse to move on.

Next season is shaping up to be like the football version of Major League. A group of scrubs fighting for their football lives against an owner/front office actively trying to bury them. I know who I'll be rooting for.

Well, probably true, if they don't get Manning, they can keep Tebow and sign leftovers and likely have a bad season and can use Tebow as the excuse for the bad season, since there are many around here ready to believe that anyway.

Hamrob
03-17-2012, 08:51 AM
What type of deal is Bunkley looking for? Why on earth would they let him walk after Soliai got away? I trust this regimes ability to gage talent on the defensive side of the ball but I can not imagine they would let Bunkley bail unless he wants topshelf money.Man, you folks are killing me!

This team and Pat Bowlen are ****ing BROKE!!!! Don't you get that? They are going to have to take out a loan to sign Manning. They have no CASH!

We were $27m under the cap last year, and $23m under this year. Why?

IF you would clean your ears out and listen....every time the cap is mentioned, Elway says, "but that's not the cash budget". What he means is this, it doesn't matter how much cap space they have..................because they have no CASH to spend. Bowlen has been and is BROKE people. All of his money is in the Broncos Organiztion. Bowlen is worth roughly a $1B, which is what the Broncos are supposedly worth according to Forbes. Bowlen is all in....just to keep a team on the field.

But, still, may of you will claim that they are just being wise, that they are building the right way. Fools!

Hamrob
03-17-2012, 08:53 AM
Broncos offered more money to solai he took a home town discount. They did pay him 12 million last year maybe he felt guilty.

Eddie mac said jones has dropped to 245lbs that is bad.

I am betting bunkley is out trying to find bigger cash when he can't he will ne back.
Thomas is ok good rotational player. He will ham every now and again.

Jamaal mcleen- more important than any of the fa dt available.Where do you come up with that crap??? The Broncos never offered more money! Put up or shut up. Wheres the link???

tsiguy96
03-17-2012, 08:53 AM
this manning thing is officially stupid. they invested everything they have into trying to get this guy, they are completely missing out on their own and other FAs. if we dont get manning, how did FA go?

TonyR
03-17-2012, 09:23 AM
Bunkley is a 4-3 nose tackle, essentially an undersized run stopper. He hasnít sacked a quarterback since the 2009 season.

Other top defensive tackles still left on the open market include Jason Jones, Derek Landri, Aubrayo Franklin, Pat Sims, and Trevor Laws. Luis Castillo and Kendall Langford are 3-4 ends that could play tackle in a 4-3.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/17/saints-hosting-bunkley-and-other-free-agent-defensive-tackle-notes/

RaiderH8r
03-17-2012, 10:02 AM
can we call this a bust at fixing the defense? havent signed anyone

But our FO flew to NC to wipe Peyton's butt with their dignity.

CEH
03-17-2012, 11:22 AM
Bunkley is a 4-3 nose tackle, essentially an undersized run stopper. He hasnít sacked a quarterback since the 2009 season.

Other top defensive tackles still left on the open market include Jason Jones, Derek Landri, Aubrayo Franklin, Pat Sims, and Trevor Laws. Luis Castillo and Kendall Langford are 3-4 ends that could play tackle in a 4-3.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/17/saints-hosting-bunkley-and-other-free-agent-defensive-tackle-notes/

Jason Jones to SEAChickens

Denver724
03-17-2012, 11:25 AM
Best DL players left from Evan Silva on Twitter.

1) Kam Wimbley
2) Mark Anderson
3) Brodrick Bunkley
4) Andre Carter
5) Matt Roth
6) Aubrayo Franklin
7) Luis Castillo
8) Trevor Laws
9) Jarvis Moss
10) Tony Brown
11) Haynesworth
12) Colin Cole
13) Marcus Thomas
14) Pat Sims

eddie mac
03-17-2012, 11:26 AM
Franklin and Sims were nothing more than depth last year, nowhere near good enough to start.

~Crash~
03-17-2012, 01:20 PM
you know our starter Mitch Unrein is going to be realy pissed with all this replacment talk about him . We ARE SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SET! just ask him!

barryr
03-17-2012, 01:26 PM
you know our starter Mitch Unrein is going to be realy pissed with all this replacment talk about him . We ARE SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SET! just ask him!

If they told him he was the starter a month ago, maybe so.

Shananahan
03-17-2012, 01:30 PM
Best DL players left from Evan Silva on Twitter.

1) Kam Wimbley
2) Mark Anderson
3) Brodrick Bunkley
4) Andre Carter
5) Matt Roth
6) Aubrayo Franklin
7) Luis Castillo
8) Trevor Laws
10) Tony Brown
12) Colin Cole
13) Marcus Thomas
14) Pat Sims
Sign them all. Sort it out in camp.

~Crash~
03-17-2012, 01:30 PM
Marcus Thomas

biggest problem in the past was staying on his feet. he was a Guards favorite cut block fun . for about a year and several game back a light did turn on. he is not a world beater but not a slouch either....

I hope we get him back on the cheap . thing is he is about the age were he gets way better ...people forget he was relay young when we drafted him.

Thomas is a high character person and does some really good things for young children in the denver area. I want to keep him.

~Crash~
03-17-2012, 01:32 PM
If they told him he was the starter a month ago, maybe so. sarcasm :welcome:

RaiderH8r
03-17-2012, 01:35 PM
Marcus Thomas

biggest problem in the past was staying on his feet. he was a Guards favorite cut block fun . for about a year and several game back a light did turn on. he is not a world beater but not a slouch either....

I hope we get him back on the cheap . thing is he is about the age were he gets way better ...people forget he was relay young when we drafted him.

Thomas is a high character person and does some really good things for young children in the denver area. I want to keep him.

Agreed. We drafted him late because he fell due to personal issues. He was supposed to be day 1 talent but took. Is sweet time "getting it" in the NFL. last year he started to contribute and grow as a player and I hope we can keep him because I think he will build on that.

All if this means he is as good as gone.

Shananahan
03-17-2012, 01:37 PM
Bunkley and Thomas both need to be resigned. You don't improve a defensive line by letting the best players at one of your biggest positions of need walk away.

RaiderH8r
03-17-2012, 01:38 PM
Bunkley and Thomas both need to be resigned. You don't improve a defensive line by letting the best players at one of your biggest positions of need walk away.

We do. Well us and the Bengals.

~Crash~
03-17-2012, 01:44 PM
Brodrick Bunkley visting the Saits ....

Problems ? What Problems?!!?

RaiderH8r
03-17-2012, 01:46 PM
Brodrick Bunkley visting the Saits ....

Problems ? What Problems?!!?

Our resident Baghdad Bobs insist that there are no needs and no problems in Bronco nation. All is well. Move along to the Peyton Manning suck fest. Nothing to see here.

~Crash~
03-17-2012, 01:53 PM
lol all of Indy's rejects can kiss my broncos ass!

RaiderH8r
03-17-2012, 01:54 PM
lol all of Indy's rejects can kiss my broncos ass!

We should trade for Freeney.

Rohirrim
03-17-2012, 01:58 PM
We don't need no stinkin' DTs!

RaiderH8r
03-17-2012, 02:00 PM
We don't need no stinkin' DTs!

Peyton Manning pisses excellence and craps run stuffers.

~Crash~
03-17-2012, 02:01 PM
We should trade for Freeney.

I did say rejects

RaiderH8r
03-17-2012, 02:04 PM
I did say rejects

Our FO is loaded and ready to go full retard.

~Crash~
03-17-2012, 02:12 PM
LOL I agree to point ... The manning thing was fine for the first few day ...kick the tire and all but at some point they should of thought team first at some point.

Bronco Rob
03-28-2012, 06:04 AM
PALM BEACH, Fla. ó Peyton Manning may be unreal. He may be a Hall of Famer in waiting. He may be in the discussion for greatest NFL quarterback of all time.

But Peyton Manning can't play defensive tackle.

"We've got some holes, in particular at defensive tackle," Broncos coach John Fox said Tuesday at the AFC coaches breakfast with the media.

Besides looking for defensive tackles, the Broncos figure to open contract extension talks this summer with offensive lineman Ryan Clady, a left tackle who can become a free agent after the 2012 season. The Broncos might also bring back slot receiver and ex-Manning teammate Brandon Stokley, and they're trying to re-sign defensive end Jason Hunter.

They also would like to add depth at tailback, linebacker and outside receiver, perhaps at strong safety.

But primarily they need to fortify the defensive tackle position. Brodrick Bunkley left Denver as a free agent and signed with the New Orleans Saints (a five-year contract worth $22.5 million, including $8.9 million guaranteed). Marcus Thomas is weighing Denver's offer against two others. Ryan McBean is hoping Denver District Court will stay his six-game suspension by the NFL.

Mitch Unrein and Ty Warren are on the Denver roster.



Read more: Denver Broncos still have holes to fill at defensive tackle - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20270470/denver-broncos-still-have-holes-fill-at-defensive#ixzz1qPsD0Fut
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

TonyR
03-28-2012, 06:22 AM
^ You beat me to it, I just posted this in another thread. Good to see that they're at least aware of the gaping hole at DT!

The Joker
03-28-2012, 06:36 AM
On the plus side he acknowledged that we suck at DT...

On the other hand he did the same at this time last year and then didn't draft any DT's, so...

Re-signing Thomas would be a good start. The guy is never gonna be a star but I'd feel comfortable with him as part of the rotation.

Ty Warren would also be good if he's healthy. That's a massive if though, he hasn't played a down in two years.

After that we have a bunch of guys who are borderline scrubs, to be frank.

So yeah, sign Thomas, pray Warren stays healthy, trade for a solid vet DT and draft someone in the first three rounds that you think can contribute pretty quickly and maybe we'll be something other than a disgrace at the DT position this year.

Sorting out our DT's between now and September is what's standing between us and being a truly legit contender, IMO.

DENVERDUI55
03-28-2012, 08:55 AM
Is Derek Landri of the Eagles a FA and unsigned? Not that it matters DT to me seems like an afterthought of the Denver Broncos.

TonyR
03-29-2012, 01:34 PM
Right now the Broncos are trying to re-sign Marcus Thomas and have an interest in Amobi Okoye.

What's the common trait between both men?

Both play the 3-technique (often known as an under tackle). Most teams expect the 3-tech to be a penetrator and a disruptive force, and further, to create at least a little bit of havoc in the pass rush. For a quick refresher on gaps and techniques, you can always click here. Suffice to say, your 3-tech needs to be active.

Thomas played well last year (25 stops ain't too shabby), but wasn't a huge factor in the pass rush. He ended up with 0 sacks, 1 QB hit, 3 QB pressures, and 1 batted pass.

Okoye by contrast had 4 sacks, 6 QB hits, 21 QB pressures, and 1 batted pass. He was less of a factor in the running game, however. He ended up with 15 stops.

Who should they sign? Right now, either will do. The free agents left on the market at defensive tackles are growing thin. So they don't have a ton of wiggle room. Should the Broncos sign either, it will bring a sigh of relief--the Broncos will have at least plugged one of their gaps at defensive tackle.

It will have also eliminated the need to draft a 3-tech. Despite all of the mock drafts that simply plug in the next defensive tackle from a ranking system (whether they are a 4-3 NT, 3-4 NT, or a 3-tech DT), the 3-tech-nose tackle dynamic will affect the Broncos' thinking. In short, I believe, should the Broncos sign Okoye or Thomas, they won't draft a 3-tech, but a 1-tech nose tackle with either of their first two picks.

This narrowed thinking (and I admit it's my own) would likely eliminate the following defensive tackles, who are best suited to the 3-tech.

Fletcher Cox
Jerel Worthy
Devon Still
Kendall Reyes

Let's also do the obvious and take out the 3-4 nose tackles from consideration (although they will be considered):

Dontari Poe
Alameda Ta'amu

So what's left? Naturally, the 4-3 nose tackles (1-techs): Michael Brokers and Brandon Thompson. Let's take a quick peek at each. We'll let the tape do the talking.

The rest is here: http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/some-speculation-on-how-defensive-tackle-could-play-itself-out

Requiem
03-29-2012, 01:37 PM
Even if you sign Okoye or Thomas, they need to draft a 3 technique.

Worthy in 1. Ta'amu in 2. Bam, DT is taken care of.

maher_tyler
03-29-2012, 01:38 PM
Right now the Broncos are trying to re-sign Marcus Thomas and have an interest in Amobi Okoye.

What's the common trait between both men?

Both play the 3-technique (often known as an under tackle). Most teams expect the 3-tech to be a penetrator and a disruptive force, and further, to create at least a little bit of havoc in the pass rush. For a quick refresher on gaps and techniques, you can always click here. Suffice to say, your 3-tech needs to be active.

Thomas played well last year (25 stops ain't too shabby), but wasn't a huge factor in the pass rush. He ended up with 0 sacks, 1 QB hit, 3 QB pressures, and 1 batted pass.

Okoye by contrast had 4 sacks, 6 QB hits, 21 QB pressures, and 1 batted pass. He was less of a factor in the running game, however. He ended up with 15 stops.

Who should they sign? Right now, either will do. The free agents left on the market at defensive tackles are growing thin. So they don't have a ton of wiggle room. Should the Broncos sign either, it will bring a sigh of relief--the Broncos will have at least plugged one of their gaps at defensive tackle.

It will have also eliminated the need to draft a 3-tech. Despite all of the mock drafts that simply plug in the next defensive tackle from a ranking system (whether they are a 4-3 NT, 3-4 NT, or a 3-tech DT), the 3-tech-nose tackle dynamic will affect the Broncos' thinking. In short, I believe, should the Broncos sign Okoye or Thomas, they won't draft a 3-tech, but a 1-tech nose tackle with either of their first two picks.

This narrowed thinking (and I admit it's my own) would likely eliminate the following defensive tackles, who are best suited to the 3-tech.

Fletcher Cox
Jerel Worthy
Devon Still
Kendall Reyes
Let's also do the obvious and take out the 3-4 nose tackles from consideration (although they will be considered):

Dontari Poe
Alameda Ta'amu
So what's left? Naturally, the 4-3 nose tackles (1-techs): Michael Brokers and Brandon Thompson. Let's take a quick peek at each. We'll let the tape do the talking.

The rest is here: http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/some-speculation-on-how-defensive-tackle-could-play-itself-out

Was going to post this same article. If we do re-sign Thomas, i think he might be right. I wouldn't be surprised if we try to move up and get the guy we want. Or trade back for extra picks...trade our first for an early 2nd pick and an extra 3rd??