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The Moops
03-15-2012, 09:03 AM
My Open Letter to John Elway

Dear John --

You were a great player but you still have a lot to learn about managing an NFL franchise. You have already broken the first rule of being a great general manager, lying to players and to the great Broncos fans.

You told Tim Tebow that he would be the starter going into training camp. That promise lasted less than 2 months. I understand. All Tebow did was make the Broncos the talk of the entire country again, fill the stands with delirious fans, send merchandise sales through the roof, and make the team winners for the first time in 6 seasons. Tebow did this even after you told Kyle Orton that he was the man and then watched him drive the Broncos offense off I-25 into a ditch with a 1-4 record.

So you turned to the youngster. Of course, for good measure, before you handed Tebow the keys to the offense you got rid of the teamís best receiver for an awesome 5th round draft pick! Still, despite the criticism and lack of offensive weapons, Tebow went 8-5 as a starter including an eye-popping, 7-straight wins. It doesnít matter that Tebow ignited the franchise and got the whole team to rally around him. I understand. Tebow has that pesky, quirky throwing motion. The kind that somehow throttled the #1 defense in the playoffs for over 300 yards and the most jaw-dropping winning TD play of the year Ė and perhaps playoff history.

But you said that was OK because you promised to work with Tebow in the offseason to help him improve his game. You said you were looking forward to taking the old tie off and get on the field to show the kid how to play QB. You lied about that too. All because a 36-year-old future Hall of Famer became available.

Which, of course, brings us to your second mistake Ė lying to the great Broncos fans. You told Bronco nation that you were going to rebuild the Broncos from the ground up to win the Super Bowl. But thatís not true either. You see, when you dump your young star QB for a 36-year-old signal caller who hasnít played in a year because he was too busy undergoing 4 neck surgeries, youíre not really rebuilding a team. Youíre trying to recapture the past. Youíre also betting against the 93-year history of the NFL. The truth is, no 36-year-old QB (or older) in the history of the league has ever won a championship with a new team. Never. Johnny Unitas, Joe Namath, Joe Montana, Kurt Warner, none of them could do it. And only Unitas was older than Peyton Manning. The closest was 35-year-old Chargers QB Tobin Rote who led San Diego to the 1963 AFL title after spending 4 years in Canada. That was the year I was born, John. Iím almost 50! Sure Peyton Manning is no Tobin Rote, except Rote did win more championships.

That goes to the next interesting thing about Manning. As great as he is, the guy has a 9-10 playoff record. I would mention that even the soon-to-be discarded Tebow has a better record. But thatís not really fair. So how about Montanaís 16-7 playoff record, Unitasís 6-3. Heck, you were 14-8 and it still took you 15 years to win a Super Bowl playing with the same team. It took Manning 9 years to win one with Indy. What makes you think Manning can pull it off in 3 years when better clutch players fell short?

Seriously, 3 years is the window youíre looking at if Peyton signs with Denver. And letís be honest. Itís not like the Broncos are 1 QB away from winning it all. Thereís that defense that gave up 6 TD passes in one playoff game. That never could really stop the run all year. I know if Peyton signs thereís a chance you might be able to add a bunch of your Colts teammates. I guess if you sign them you could win the Super Bowl. Super Bowl XLI, that is. Of course, by waiting for Peyton youíre letting all the top defensive free agents sign with other teams. Thatís a lot to wager on.

OK, John. I get it. Youíre in charge. In your mind it doesnít really matter how your actions impact Bronco nation or the likes of Tebow. The heck with rebuilding a team. Letís win it all right now by gambling with a guy thatís going to somehow turn back time by doing something no one in NFL history has ever done. At least do the fans one thing before you go off on your crazy dream to win it all with an aging, not 100% healthy QB.
Maybe, just maybe, watch Peyton throw first!

Tom Mackie is the co-author of Floyd Littleís Tales from the Broncos Sideline. Check out his blog: TrueGridiron.com and follow him on twitter @TheMoops44.

Butterscotch Stallion
03-15-2012, 09:06 AM
i came.

crush17
03-15-2012, 09:09 AM
Oh for effs sake. Cry us all a river. Its a business, and Elway is in this business to win CHAMPIONSHIPS, not pat Timmy T on the head and tell him how muchhe loves him.

BroncoBen
03-15-2012, 09:10 AM
My Open Letter to John Elway

Dear John --

You were a great player but you still have a lot to learn about managing an NFL franchise. You have already broken the first rule of being a great general manager, lying to players and to the great Broncos fans.



Really..? The NFL is a business.. the players know this and should be professional. Elway is trying to make the team better and win Championships.

The question people have to ask themselves.. 'Are you a Broncos fan..? or a Tebow fan..?'

I'm a Broncos fan first... I appreciate Elway trying to make the team better.. Thank you Mr Elway.

Rohirrim
03-15-2012, 09:10 AM
As far as I can tell, Tebow is still the starter going into training camp. ???

HorseHead
03-15-2012, 09:11 AM
I actually found it to be an enjoyable wast of valuable company time...

Archer81
03-15-2012, 09:11 AM
I predict good things for this thread.


:Broncos:

Bronco Rob
03-15-2012, 09:12 AM
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa444/Paxil_Rose/29720-20animated_gif20applause.gif



:thumbsup:

55CrushEm
03-15-2012, 09:12 AM
Really..? The NFL is a business.. the players know this and should be professional. Elway is trying to make the team better and win Championships.

The question people have to ask themselves.. 'Are you a Broncos fan..? or a Tebow fan..?'

I'm a Broncos fan first... I appreciate Elway trying to make the team better.. Thank you Mr Elway.

Therein lies the problem for me.....

Will bringing in Peyton Manning alone make us better? Absolutely.

Will bringing in Peyton Manning alone win us the Superbowl? Absolutely NOT.

Chris
03-15-2012, 09:13 AM
Damn. You're old.










Oh and I totally agree. Your article may be opinion but there are clear facts in the middle of it. There is no reason to sign Peyton Manning right now.

schaaf
03-15-2012, 09:13 AM
Really..? The NFL is a business.. the players know this and should be professional. Elway is trying to make the team better and win Championships.

The question people have to ask themselves.. 'Are you a Broncos fan..? or a Tebow fan..?'

I'm a Broncos fan first... I appreciate Elway trying to make the team better.. Thank you Mr Elway.

Oh my god that is your best avatar yet

Archer81
03-15-2012, 09:13 AM
Really..? The NFL is a business.. the players know this and should be professional. Elway is trying to make the team better and win Championships.

The question people have to ask themselves.. 'Are you a Broncos fan..? or a Tebow fan..?'

I'm a Broncos fan first... I appreciate Elway trying to make the team better.. Thank you Mr Elway.


By either a) signing nobody or b) waiting for a 36 y/o QB with 4 surgeries on his neck to make a decision.

Signing Manning does not solve the lack of a #2 CB, a vet safety, MLB with coverage skills or the never ending search for a good defensive line. But Manning makes us insta-favorite?

...right.

:Broncos:

Butterscotch Stallion
03-15-2012, 09:14 AM
the question is do you mortgage the future for a win now mentality on a team that has been doing that unsuccessfully for over a decade?
manning is better than Tebow, we all know this, but our team is not one player away.

we were promised a rebuild for **** sake. overpaying an injured qb is rule.#1 in the shanny.team build handbook.

NFLBRONCO
03-15-2012, 09:15 AM
Who's going to play Tebow in a movie is all I'm wondering right now.

jhns
03-15-2012, 09:15 AM
As far as I can tell, Tebow is still the starter going into training camp. ???

And he may be told that going into the first day of camp, even if we get Manning. Obviously, he will lose that starting job shortly after camp starts.

eddie mac
03-15-2012, 09:16 AM
Oh for effs sake. Cry us all a river. Its a business, and Elway is in this business to win CHAMPIONSHIPS, not pat Timmy T on the head and tell him how muchhe loves him.

Is he really???

Soliai, Bryant, Finnegan, Carr, Mario, Nicks and Grubbs call you a liar, maybe just maybe Peyton Manning might give you and 7 one in the win column.

They wont have another No2 pick to bail their asses out either this year, cos the rest of their picks were pure ****.:giggle:

Kaylore
03-15-2012, 09:16 AM
Dear John Elway,


I love Tim Tebow and a lot of other people do to. How dare you try and get one of the best quarterbacks of all time to come here and play. That would mean Manning would play because he is better. However I do not like Manning as much as I like Tebow. That is a problem for you, sir. How dare you make this team better at the QB position. Did I mention I like Tim Tebow? Well let me reiterate that I do and he is very famous. Tebow has a lot of fans. They are mad you are trying to suggest someone throws better than he does. Very mad! Manning Schmanning, I like Tebow and Manning here means Tebow will not start and I am mad. So there!

-Signed
Nurrrr

DBroncos4life
03-15-2012, 09:16 AM
I wonder who's going to play Tebow in a movie is all I'm wondering right now.

Mark Wahlberg seems about the right build.

oubronco
03-15-2012, 09:17 AM
Really..? The NFL is a business.. the players know this and should be professional. Elway is trying to make the team better and win Championships.

The question people have to ask themselves.. 'Are you a Broncos fan..? or a Tebow fan..?'

I'm a Broncos fan first... I appreciate Elway trying to make the team better.. Thank you Mr Elway.

Amen Brotha and nice avy today

Binkythefrog
03-15-2012, 09:20 AM
It's easy to judge Elway for what he is doing when you interpret all of his actions through the lens of the media and OMane posters.

The media provides stories that maximize ratings, not stories that give us an accurate picture and while true in all media, this is especially true in sports media.

We only get to see one side of the story, and that is a story that often leaves out other facts, or highlights certain ones to promote stories that may capture your interest, but not reveal what Elway is doing.

I'm going to focus on how successful the team is. In one year, Elway presided over a team that went 4-12 into one that went 8-8 and won a playoff game. He may "lie" or do other things that the media reports, but often they get their story wrong (just look at all of the rumors that never come to fruition). We don't know what he is really saying behind the scenes and we probably never will unless we work for the Broncos FO. If the Broncos win, Elway is doing a good job. If they lose, he isn't. End of story.

BroncoFiend
03-15-2012, 09:20 AM
Hey John,

Please note that the sob story of a letter above does not represent how the majority of Broncos fans feel.

Please keep up the good work and do whatever you think is best to bring a championship back to Denver.

Thanks!

Spider
03-15-2012, 09:21 AM
I actually found it to be an enjoyable wast of valuable company time...

LOL check out this cork sucker , fickle as a woman you are .........

bronco militia
03-15-2012, 09:24 AM
I actually found it to be an enjoyable wast of valuable company time...

LOL NOT SURE IF SERIOUS

bronco militia
03-15-2012, 09:25 AM
it's too bad elway lets the coaching staff decide who plays on gamedays.

eddie mac
03-15-2012, 09:26 AM
Personally this had got **** all to do with Tebow for me and I actually applauded the approach for Manning but if you manage to get a Peyton Manning you dont go half in, you go all ****ing in, strengthen the rest of the team and make that major push.

Sitting in Dove Valley holding your cock waiting for a call is not how you run a franchise or ever hope to get back to the Superbowl.

Sorry John but you've failed miserably in that regard.

55CrushEm
03-15-2012, 09:26 AM
Hey John,

Please note that the sob story of a letter above does not represent how the majority of Broncos fans feel.

Please keep up the good work and do whatever you think is best to bring a championship back to Denver.

Thanks!

That's right John. Precisely BECAUSE we are fans, that means we know absolutely NOTHING about talent around the league, and therefore should NEVER question the lack of moves your office has made in TWO offseasons now in regards to free agency.

We, as fans, fellate effigies of you each night....knowing that you are the smartest VP of football operations ever......and every move you make (or in this case, DON'T make) is AWESOME.....nurrrrrrr!

Despite have numerous holes to fill on our roster......we LOVE seeing you and Xanders sit around doing, well, nothing. It's very comforting, and I wanted to thank you from the bottom of my heart!! U R DA BEST, John!!!

NURRRRR!!!!!

bronco militia
03-15-2012, 09:27 AM
Dear John Elway,


I love Tim Tebow and a lot of other people do to. How dare you try and get one of the best quarterbacks of all time to come here and play. That would mean Manning would play because he is better. However I do not like Manning as much as I like Tebow. That is a problem for you, sir. How dare you make this team better at the QB position. Did I mention I like Tim Tebow? Well let me reiterate that I do and he is very famous. Tebow has a lot of fans. They are mad you are trying to suggest someone throws better than he does. Very mad! Manning Schmanning, I like Tebow and Manning here means Tebow will not start and I am mad. So there!

-Signed
Nurrrr

NOT SURE IF SERIOUS


:wave:

55CrushEm
03-15-2012, 09:27 AM
Personally this had got **** all to do with Tebow for me and I actually applauded the approach for Manning but if you manage to get a Peyton Manning you dont go half in, you go all ****ing in, strengthen the rest of the team and make that major push.

Sitting in Dove Valley holding your cock waiting for a call is not how you run a franchise or ever hope to get back to the Superbowl.

Sorry John but you've failed miserably in that regard.

QFT

DENVERDUI55
03-15-2012, 09:29 AM
Dear John Elway,


I love Tim Tebow and a lot of other people do to. How dare you try and get one of the best quarterbacks of all time to come here and play. That would mean Manning would play because he is better. However I do not like Manning as much as I like Tebow. That is a problem for you, sir. How dare you make this team better at the QB position. Did I mention I like Tim Tebow? Well let me reiterate that I do and he is very famous. Tebow has a lot of fans. They are mad you are trying to suggest someone throws better than he does. Very mad! Manning Schmanning, I like Tebow and Manning here means Tebow will not start and I am mad. So there!

-Signed
Nurrrr

Agreed! The thing these tebow followers don't get is he isn't going to be in our future regardless of Manning playing here or not. Elways response should be I'm the VP of Ops and I didn't draft him and I am not tying my job to Tebow.

~Crash~
03-15-2012, 09:33 AM
broncos are after Payton because of Bowlen

~Crash~
03-15-2012, 09:34 AM
go titans

~Crash~
03-15-2012, 09:35 AM
Bowlen want to win now

BroncoBeavis
03-15-2012, 09:35 AM
'Are you a Broncos fan..? or a Tebow fan..?'.

Says they guy wanting to replace the Broncos' QB with the one from the Colts.

BroncoBeavis
03-15-2012, 09:38 AM
broncos are after Payton because of Bowlen

Howzabout Pat and Bud settle this man-to-man with a crazy-ass-millionaire's match of rochambeau.

Pat's up first.

BroncoFiend
03-15-2012, 09:38 AM
Says they guy wanting to replace the Broncos' QB with the one from the Colts.

Do you want any free agents or just use the draft?

DBroncos4life
03-15-2012, 09:40 AM
Do you want any free agents or just use the draft?

He just wants to rant.

RaiderH8r
03-15-2012, 09:41 AM
Oh for effs sake. Cry us all a river. Its a business, and Elway is in this business to win CHAMPIONSHIPS, not pat Timmy T on the head and tell him how muchhe loves him.

Building the squad from the ground up is the way to win championships. Not blowing your cap wad on an aging vet QB with neck problems and a penchant for buggery.

Orange_Beard
03-15-2012, 09:41 AM
I will NEVER understand why people are so attached to Tebow.

We are talking about Payton Manning...Not Matt Lienart or some scrub. Elway is chasing one of the all time greats who may have 3 or 4 years left. The QB is the King in the NFL.

BroncoBeavis
03-15-2012, 09:48 AM
Do you want any free agents or just use the draft?

So Jets fans who would've rather stuck with Pennington than deal with the Favre circus were bad Jets fans.

broncocalijohn
03-15-2012, 09:48 AM
My Open Letter to John Elway

Dear John --

You told Tim Tebow that he would be the starter going into training camp. That promise lasted less than 2 months. I understand. All Tebow did was make the Broncos the talk of the entire country again, fill the stands with delirious fans, send merchandise sales through the roof, and make the team winners for the first time in 6 seasons. Tebow did this even after you told Kyle Orton that he was the man and then watched him drive the Broncos offense off I-25 into a ditch with a 1-4 record.

Tom Mackie is the co-author of Floyd Littleís Tales from the Broncos Sideline. Check out his blog: TrueGridiron.com and follow him on twitter @TheMoops44.

To play devil's advocate, I think Peyton Manning would do the same and possibly more. Also, P.M. would bring in the offensive Free Agency that wins Championships. (See bold)
Also, I don't check out blogs unless it is on MySpace.

Ratboy
03-15-2012, 09:48 AM
I see this is where all the Teblowers are hiding.

55CrushEm
03-15-2012, 09:49 AM
To play devil's advocate, I think Peyton Manning would do the same and possibly more. Also, P.M. would bring in the offensive Free Agency that wins Championships. (See bold)

Agreed. But we aren't winning any championships with our defense in its current state.

Steve Sewell
03-15-2012, 09:50 AM
Dear John Elway,


I love Tim Tebow and a lot of other people do to. How dare you try and get one of the best quarterbacks of all time to come here and play. That would mean Manning would play because he is better. However I do not like Manning as much as I like Tebow. That is a problem for you, sir. How dare you make this team better at the QB position. Did I mention I like Tim Tebow? Well let me reiterate that I do and he is very famous. Tebow has a lot of fans. They are mad you are trying to suggest someone throws better than he does. Very mad! Manning Schmanning, I like Tebow and Manning here means Tebow will not start and I am mad. So there!

-Signed
Nurrrr

^^This

Steve Sewell
03-15-2012, 09:52 AM
Personally this had got **** all to do with Tebow for me and I actually applauded the approach for Manning but if you manage to get a Peyton Manning you dont go half in, you go all ****ing in, strengthen the rest of the team and make that major push.

Sitting in Dove Valley holding your cock waiting for a call is not how you run a franchise or ever hope to get back to the Superbowl.

Sorry John but you've failed miserably in that regard.

Do you suggest they should have gone all "Philly Dream Team"-style this offseason? How did that work out for them last year?

broncocalijohn
03-15-2012, 09:54 AM
Agreed. But we aren't winning any championships with our defense in its current state.

We didnt win any with our defense when Shanahan came to the Broncos in the mid 90s. Manning would not be a one year and done player. You can build a SB team in three years. Not sure if we would be on a two or three year plan.

ScottXray
03-15-2012, 09:55 AM
Therein lies the problem for me.....

Will bringing in Peyton Manning alone make us better? Absolutely.

Will bringing in Peyton Manning alone win us the Superbowl? Absolutely NOT.

+1 ...
I like Tebow, but Manning is definitely better (hopefully for NOW).

I 'd like to see Tebow stay here, but Elways moves are transparently obvious. He doesn't want him here and he won't commit to him at all. And this is probably obvious to Tebow now also. He is not going to buy any smoke being blown up his butt anymore.

But Manning is not the answer to all our problems, and does not guarantee us
anything. We need MUCH more than we can get in the draft. FA is the path to getting some of those players.

As to the OP, while couched in a pretty negative way, it contains factual points.
Elway is reversing himself on his rebuilding program. He has made statements as to working with Tebow, and long term plans ( or hopes) and he is chucking everything for a NEW plan. WIN NOW. And even in that he is only going part way, all depending on what PM does, which the OP points out ,has NEVER worked for any team before. Meanwhile no other FA moves are happening
( yet).

I am disappointed in everything going on , and NOT going on ,right now.

Butterscotch Stallion
03-15-2012, 09:56 AM
I see this is where all the Teblowers are hiding.

well this sight has been overrun by vaginas in every thread complaining about 10 posters overrunning the sight.

its like fox news and rush limbaugh complaining about the liberal media...

there arent many places for legit discussion anymore with out spider trolling, yerner trolling, you trolling, peacepipe trolling etc. etc.


you twats watch...now that macruder is banned, it should become clear over the next few days that the vagina crew is ruining this sight.

enjoy the fall NEros.

BroncoBeavis
03-15-2012, 09:57 AM
Dear Peyton Manning

Why don't you CALL? You never CALL! I thought that night in Dove Valley meant something to you. You said you LOVED us. Then we woke up the next morning and you were gone.

You told us that together we could rule the Galaxy and that you could drop 50 points on the Patriots any time you felt like it (even if you're scared to play in their division)

WE ARE NOTHING WITH OUT YOU PEYTON!!! LOVE US! PLEASE CALL!!!

Sincerely,
"Real" Broncos Fans.

montrose
03-15-2012, 09:57 AM
Dear John Elway,


I love Tim Tebow and a lot of other people do to. How dare you try and get one of the best quarterbacks of all time to come here and play. That would mean Manning would play because he is better. However I do not like Manning as much as I like Tebow. That is a problem for you, sir. How dare you make this team better at the QB position. Did I mention I like Tim Tebow? Well let me reiterate that I do and he is very famous. Tebow has a lot of fans. They are mad you are trying to suggest someone throws better than he does. Very mad! Manning Schmanning, I like Tebow and Manning here means Tebow will not start and I am mad. So there!

-Signed
Nurrrr

Outside of Fox going for it on 4th down against Tennessee and not going for it against San Diego. Have you ever disagreed with a decision the Broncos have made? lol, j/k

55CrushEm
03-15-2012, 09:59 AM
We didnt win any with our defense when Shanahan came to the Broncos in the mid 90s

Our defense was VERY good on those Superbowl teams. It was merely overshadowed by an elite offense.

Take the repeat year.......for all intents and purposes....our defense didn't give up a MEANINGFUL touchdown that entire playoff run.

38-3 vs. Miami

23-10 vs. NY Jets......the only TD given up was when we had a punt blocked on the 1-yard line...you can hardly fault that on the defense.

34-19 vs. Atlanta......1 TD was a Tim Dwight kick return, the other was total garbage time at the very end.

You can argue our defense pitched a total TD shutout in the playoffs. Not to mention Flash Gordon having FOUR interceptions in the AFCCG and Superbowl.

Our defenses were VERY GOOD.

cmhargrove
03-15-2012, 10:02 AM
In the end, don't we really need too judge Elway by team wins and losses? I certainly would have done differently than Elway so far, but I would say he had a pretty damn good first season.

Let's wait to judge things, i'm actually pretty optimistic about our growth this year regardless of the QB situation (i'm ok with either guy).

Just be patient.

DBroncos4life
03-15-2012, 10:03 AM
So Jets fans who would've rather stuck with Pennington than deal with the Favre circus were bad Jets fans.

Lol really?

RaiderH8r
03-15-2012, 10:03 AM
Do you suggest they should have gone all "Philly Dream Team"-style this offseason? How did that work out for them last year?

No but we definitely have holes and need depth. We need RB depth and picking up Tolbert, Hillis (who went cheap and will probably rumble for 120/game on us), or Bush to start would have been nice.

BroncoBeavis
03-15-2012, 10:05 AM
Lol really?

Yeah, kind of a dumb comparison. Favre was fresh off an overtime loss in the NFC Championship game. Manning is just off of 4 neck surgeries and being unable to play for a year because of loss of feeling in his throwing arm.

I shouldda thought that through better.

DBroncos4life
03-15-2012, 10:08 AM
Yeah, kind of a dumb comparison. Favre was fresh off an overtime loss in the NFC Championship game. Manning is just off of 4 neck surgeries and being unable to play for a year because of loss of feeling in his throwing arm.

I shouldda thought that through better.

You're so ****ing lost. Jets fans wanting Pennington. Gtfo!! This **** can't be real. They don't even want Sanchez!

ant1999e
03-15-2012, 10:09 AM
By either a) signing nobody or b) waiting for a 36 y/o QB with 4 surgeries on his neck to make a decision.

Signing Manning does not solve the lack of a #2 CB, a vet safety, MLB with coverage skills or the never ending search for a good defensive line. But Manning makes us insta-favorite?

...right.

:Broncos:

Bingo. We have done nothing in free agency, zero...

Steve Sewell
03-15-2012, 10:10 AM
Our defense was VERY good on those Superbowl teams. It was merely overshadowed by an elite offense.

Take the repeat year.......for all intents and purposes....our defense didn't give up a MEANINGFUL touchdown that entire playoff run.

38-3 vs. Miami

23-10 vs. NY Jets......the only TD given up was when we had a punt blocked on the 1-yard line...you can hardly fault that on the defense.

34-19 vs. Atlanta......1 TD was a Tim Dwight kick return, the other was total garbage time at the very end.

You can argue our defense pitched a total TD shutout in the playoffs. Not to mention Flash Gordon having FOUR interceptions in the AFCCG and Superbowl.

Our defenses were VERY GOOD.

LOLOLOLOLOL

The defense was good because the Broncos ran the ball down everyone's throats and had one of the most prolific run/pass offenses in the history of the game that year. They played defense with their offense.

Please don't characterize any defense of Greg Robinson as "very good". The reality is that Denver had a sizable leads in most of their games that year which allowed Greg to dial up blitzes most of the time. They did have a very nice pass rush though, I'll give you that.

Steve Sewell
03-15-2012, 10:10 AM
No but we definitely have holes and need depth. We need RB depth and picking up Tolbert, Hillis (who went cheap and will probably rumble for 120/game on us), or Bush to start would have been nice.

There's this thing called the NFL draft and its coming up in April. Have you heard of this?

55CrushEm
03-15-2012, 10:12 AM
LOLOLOLOLOL

The defense was good because the Broncos ran the ball down everyone's throats and had one of the most prolific run/pass offenses in the history of the game that year. They played defense with their offense.

Please don't characterize any defense of Greg Robinson as "very good". The reality is that Denver had a sizable leads in most of their games that year which allowed Greg to dial up blitzes most of the time. They did have a very nice pass rush though, I'll give you that.

What's the cornerstone of a good defense? D-Line....and particularly, in today's NFL.....PASS RUSH.

Thanks.

55CrushEm
03-15-2012, 10:13 AM
There's this thing called the NFL draft and its coming up in April. Have you heard of this?

Yeah....we have. Have you seen our roster? Do you think we can get to a Superbowl in 2-3 years by ONLY building through the draft?

Holes need to be filled.....the roster needs to be rounded out. That can and should be done through FA.

Steve Sewell
03-15-2012, 10:19 AM
Yeah....we have. Have you seen our roster? Do you think we can get to a Superbowl in 2-3 years by ONLY building through the draft?

Holes need to be filled.....the roster needs to be rounded out. That can and should be done through FA.

To your first question, yes, I do. Not with the current starting QB, though. And QB is BY FAR the most important position on any football team. You can have the best team in the world but if your QB sucks, you're not sniffing a SB victory in today's NFL.

Which leads me to your second statement: they are working very hard to "fill" the aforementioned "hole" through FA, if you haven't noticed.

Steve Sewell
03-15-2012, 10:20 AM
What's the cornerstone of a good defense? D-Line....and particularly, in today's NFL.....PASS RUSH.

Thanks.

Okay...

Dumervil/Miller not working out for you? What if the Broncos snag a DT in the first round of the draft? Why is that not a viable option?

55CrushEm
03-15-2012, 10:21 AM
To your first question, yes, I do. Not with the current starting QB, though.

Which leads me to your second statement: they are working very hard to "fill" the aforementioned "hole" through FA, if you haven't noticed.

I didn't say "hole"....I said "holes". If you think we have only one hole on the team, well you're in the minority.

Our defense sucks, in case you hadn't noticed.

Steve Sewell
03-15-2012, 10:23 AM
I didn't say "hole"....I said "holes". If you think we have only one hole on the team, well you're in the minority.

Our defense sucks, in case you hadn't noticed.

I'm assuming you're referring to blowout losses to better teams like NE and DET right? That couldn't have been due to the countless strings of 3 and outs and poor field position, could it?

BroncoBeavis
03-15-2012, 10:23 AM
You're so ****ing lost. Jets fans wanting Pennington. Gtfo!! This **** can't be real. They don't even want Sanchez!

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/2008-07-26-2086780297_x.htm

Jets Fans Mixed When it Comes To Favre

...

He sure did, and Pennington fans weren't happy as several others in the sun-drenched crowd chanted for Favre.

"I want none of it," said Jimmy Cordero, 22, of Newark, N.J. "Favre doesn't fit our system. In the offseason, they built the team for a running game, so Favre doesn't fit this offense."

Cordero was wearing a green No. 10 Pennington jersey with a white T-shirt underneath that read "Team Chad" and included a photo of his favorite quarterback throwing a pass.

"I believe in him," Cordero said. "He was playing on two torn (ankle) ligaments last year and now he's healthy and playing behind a good offensive line. We don't need another quarterback."

Pennington still has plenty of support among Jets fans, with a number of his jerseys spotted in the stands and some yelling, "We love you, Chad!"

I wonder if anyone told them they weren't real Jets fans.

55CrushEm
03-15-2012, 10:25 AM
Okay...

Dumervil/Miller not working out for you? What if the Broncos snag a DT in the first round of the draft? Why is that not a viable option?

Who said they aren't working out for me?

I love Dumervil, but he was a bit slow coming back from his injury they prior year....hopefully he returns fully to his 2009 form this year. Even so, he's probably overpaid for a DE that is only average at best vs. the run.

As far as drafting a DT....I'm all for it. They just rarely make big impacts in their first couple of years.

We desparately need another starting-caliber player at every level of the defense.....line, LBs, secondary.

Again, if you think our defense is good enough to win a championship as is......I respectfully disagree.

eddie mac
03-15-2012, 10:29 AM
Do you suggest they should have gone all "Philly Dream Team"-style this offseason? How did that work out for them last year?

There's a happy medium Steve, they didn't even attempt that. What was stopping the Broncos going after Manning and at least one top tier defensive player???

I realise the appointment of Manning or sticking with Tebow affects your offensive strategy and personnel but it should not affect Del Rio's.

Steve Sewell
03-15-2012, 10:31 AM
Who said they aren't working out for me?

I love Dumervil, but he was a bit slow coming back from his injury they prior year....hopefully he returns fully to his 2009 form this year. Even so, he's probably overpaid for a DE that is only average at best vs. the run.

As far as drafting a DT....I'm all for it. They just rarely make big impacts in their first couple of years.

We desparately need another starting-caliber player at every level of the defense.....line, LBs, secondary.

Again, if you think our defense is good enough to win a championship as is......I respectfully disagree.

I think our defense will be good enough to win a championship if its paired with an elite offense.

DBroncos4life
03-15-2012, 10:31 AM
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/2008-07-26-2086780297_x.htm



I wonder if anyone told them they weren't real Jets fans.

I'm sure he became a Phins fan and you are not a Broncos fan.

Rohirrim
03-15-2012, 10:35 AM
I'm sure the Broncos have a number set aside for PM beyond which they will not go. So, whatever is left over can be employed. They don't need to wait for PM to know what they will do on D. But from all appearances, they are talking to nobody, bringing nobody in, and showing a complete lack of interest, other than in Manning. WTF?

55CrushEm
03-15-2012, 10:36 AM
I'm assuming you're referring to blowout losses to better teams like NE and DET right? That couldn't have been due to the countless strings of 3 and outs and poor field position, could it?

Jebus.....stop trying to turn this into a Tebow vs. Manning thing.

My stance is clear.....here it is.

1. Do I think Manning would make our team better, and do I think he's beter than Tebow? Of course, everyone does.

2. Do I think he makes us so much better that we win the Superbowl? No.

3. Do I think he's worth $100M at his age? No. But I'll wait and see what the $$ turns out to be.

4. Do I LIKE Manning? Yes. Always have...probably more than most Bronco fans. I don't hate someone for repeatedly kicking our ass.

5. Am I frustrated at the lack of action in FA? Yes.

6. Do I want to see what Tebow can do with a full offseason as starter. Yes.

7. Am I willing to move on from Tebow if he doesn't drastically improve after one more year? YES.

8. Do I therefore think it would be a mistake to give up on Tebow NOW? Yes.

9. Am I a Tebow fan before a Bronco fan? No. Never have been.

10. Do I think building around a 36 year old player...ANYBODY...is in the best long-term interest of the team? No.

I could go on....but you get the idea.

Bottom line is this.....Manning would make our offense better, and I'd even be somewhat excited if we got him. But it's a very short-sighted move, IMO.

Now, if shockingly we land him for $12-$14M per year.....I'd be for it.

It's ultimately a question of VALUE and LONG-TERM building for me. Paying Manning $22-$25M per year makes little sense to me just to win a couple more division titles.

Steve Sewell
03-15-2012, 10:40 AM
Jebus.....stop trying to turn this into a Tebow vs. Manning thing.

My stance is clear.....here it is.

1. Do I think Manning would make our team better, and do I think he's beter than Tebow? Of course, everyone does.

2. Do I think he makes us so much better that we win the Superbowl? No.

3. Do I think he's worth $100M at his age? No. But I'll wait and see what the $$ turns out to be.

4. Do I LIKE Manning? Yes. Always have...probably more than most Bronco fans. I don't hate someone for repeatedly kicking our ass.

5. Am I frustrated at the lack of action in FA? Yes.

6. Do I want to see what Tebow can do with a full offseason as starter. Yes.

7. Am I willing to move on from Tebow if he doesn't drastically improve after one more year? YES.

8. Do I therefore think it would be a mistake to give up on Tebow NOW? Yes.

9. Am I a Tebow fan before a Bronco fan? No. Never have been.

10. Do I think building around a 36 year old player...ANYBODY...is in the best long-term interest of the team? No.

I could go on....but you get the idea.

Bottom line is this.....Manning would make our offense better, and I'd even be somewhat excited if we got him. But it's a very short-sighted move, IMO.

Now, if shockingly we land him for $12-$14M per year.....I'd be for it.

It's ultimately a question of VALUE and LONG-TERM building for me. Paying Manning $22-$25M per year makes little sense to me just to win a couple more division titles.

It's not a Tebow vs. Manning thing. It's about understanding complementary football.

A good example of this is Green Bay, New England, and New Orleans last year. Statistically, their defenses were HORRIBLE. Why? Because they blew the doors off teams on the offensive side of the ball, forcing them to play catch up. Sure, none of them won the SB last year. However, those are Top 5 teams in the NFL and will be SB contenders for years to come. Why? Because they have elite QBs.

55CrushEm
03-15-2012, 10:44 AM
It's not a Tebow vs. Manning thing. It's about understanding complementary football.

A good example of this is Green Bay, New England, and New Orleans last year. Statistically, their defenses were HORRIBLE. Why? Because they blew the doors off teams on the offensive side of the ball, forcing them to play catch up. Sure, none of them won the SB last year. However, those are Top 5 teams in the NFL and will be SB contenders for years to come. Why? Because they have elite QBs.

NE is an elite regular season team....just like the Colts were for so many years. But when the playoffs roll around.....the teams with elite defenses go further. Haven't the 2007 and 2011 Giants shown us that? The 2005 Steelers? The 2002 Bucs? How many times did the Colts exit early from the playoffs? The greatest offense EVER in the 2007 Patriots didn't even win the Superbowl.

Heck didn't the 2009 and 2010 Jets show us that regular season records mean little? Their defenses were stellar, and therefore they were "built for" the PLAYOFFS.

Tell me again how offense wins championships.........

yerner
03-15-2012, 10:47 AM
Do we have a bad thread hall of fame? I think we should start one. I nominated this queerness.

Steve Sewell
03-15-2012, 10:48 AM
NE is an elite regular season team....just like the Colts were for so many years. But when the playoffs roll around.....the teams with elite defenses go further. Haven't the 2007 and 2011 Giants shown us that? The 2005 Steelers? The 2002 Bucs? How many times did the Colts exit early from the playoffs? The greatest offense EVER in the 2007 Patriots didn't even win the Superbowl.

Heck didn't the 2009 and 2010 Jets show us that regular season records mean little? Their defenses were stellar, and therefore they were "built for" the PLAYOFFS.

Tell me again how offense wins championships.........

The Giants have an elite QB and a great pass rush. Haven't we been over this already? Who won the previous 2 SBs before this last one? What did they have in common. Oh yeah, elite QB's and pass rush.

BroncoBeavis
03-15-2012, 10:52 AM
It's not a Tebow vs. Manning thing. It's about understanding complementary football.

A good example of this is Green Bay, New England, and New Orleans last year. Statistically, their defenses were HORRIBLE. Why? Because they blew the doors off teams on the offensive side of the ball, forcing them to play catch up. Sure, none of them won the SB last year. However, those are Top 5 teams in the NFL and will be SB contenders for years to come. Why? Because they have elite QBs.

Sorry, something doesn't add up here. Are you arguing that playing from behind makes other offenses look better?

Steve Sewell
03-15-2012, 10:52 AM
Do we have a bad thread hall of fame? I think we should start one. I nominated this queerness.

There are many threads on the front page right now that would qualify for nomination.

Steve Sewell
03-15-2012, 10:53 AM
Sorry, something doesn't add up here. Are you arguing that playing from behind makes other offenses look better?

Kyle Orton's statistics with the Broncos comes to mind.

Rohirrim
03-15-2012, 10:53 AM
Okay. I went out and found a guy the Broncos can sign; Chilo Rachal. He's a right guard, has some upside, won't be expensive at all, and gives us a little insurance if Kupe can't come back on schedule. Then, he makes a nice back up at guard. How about it? Dip your toes in the water. Just for the hell of it.

Broncos4tw
03-15-2012, 10:54 AM
I'm sure the team is much more aware of where Manning sits as far as his recovery and current abilities, than us random fans. Do you really think they'd be going after the guy this hard, if they felt for a moment he couldn't perform?

Also, Elway was up front about Tebow. The result? Fans got angry and pissy because he was being blunt and honest. So he had to slip into PR mode to make everyone happy. Don't get angry with Elway because the fans and media tried to dictate what they WANT to hear, rather than being fed the truth.

I've no problems yet with how things are being run with Elway and Fox. They made huge strides their first year, and contrary to what people believe, not much of it had to do with Tebow.

55CrushEm
03-15-2012, 10:54 AM
The Giants have an elite QB and a great pass rush. Haven't we been over this already? Who won the previous 2 SBs before this last one? What did they have in common. Oh yeah, elite QB's and pass rush.

Was Manning elite in 2007? Was Rapistburger elite in 2005? Was Dilfer EVER elite? Was Brad Johnson ever elite?

Again, it's MORE important to have a stellar defense than it is to have a stellar offense.

The saying has been around forever.......offense wins games, defense wins championships. Ask the Chargers a few years back....ask the Colts for a decade....and the Pats over the last 7 years.

Yes, having an elite QB is gonna get you to the playoffs......but you have to couple that with a great defense.....

We have neither.

BroncoBeavis
03-15-2012, 10:55 AM
The Giants have an elite QB and a great pass rush. Haven't we been over this already? Who won the previous 2 SBs before this last one? What did they have in common. Oh yeah, elite QB's and pass rush.

Nothing against Eli, but he was pretty Tebowesque his first season.

Not sure why we keep comparing Tebow to long-time veterans.

baja
03-15-2012, 11:01 AM
Hey John,

Please note that the sob story of a letter above does not represent how the majority of Broncos fans feel.

Please keep up the good work and do whatever you think is best to bring a championship back to Denver.

Thanks!

and how do you know what the majority thinks?

Kid A
03-15-2012, 11:03 AM
and how do you know what the majority thinks?

Well, at least on here...

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=104005

BroncoBeavis
03-15-2012, 11:03 AM
and how do you know what the majority thinks?

I'd like to know how he knows Peyton can win a championship without superstars like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne?

BroncoBeavis
03-15-2012, 11:06 AM
I'm sure he became a Phins fan and you are not a Broncos fan.

Yep that's me. The Season Ticket payin' OM surfin' non-Broncos fan.

How many games did you hit last year?

sinuous sausage
03-15-2012, 11:13 AM
Jebus.....stop trying to turn this into a Tebow vs. Manning thing.

My stance is clear.....here it is.

1. Do I think Manning would make our team better, and do I think he's beter than Tebow? Of course, everyone does.

2. Do I think he makes us so much better that we win the Superbowl? No.

3. Do I think he's worth $100M at his age? No. But I'll wait and see what the $$ turns out to be.

4. Do I LIKE Manning? Yes. Always have...probably more than most Bronco fans. I don't hate someone for repeatedly kicking our ass.

5. Am I frustrated at the lack of action in FA? Yes.

6. Do I want to see what Tebow can do with a full offseason as starter. Yes.

7. Am I willing to move on from Tebow if he doesn't drastically improve after one more year? YES.

8. Do I therefore think it would be a mistake to give up on Tebow NOW? Yes.

9. Am I a Tebow fan before a Bronco fan? No. Never have been.

10. Do I think building around a 36 year old player...ANYBODY...is in the best long-term interest of the team? No.

I could go on....but you get the idea.

Bottom line is this.....Manning would make our offense better, and I'd even be somewhat excited if we got him. But it's a very short-sighted move, IMO.

Now, if shockingly we land him for $12-$14M per year.....I'd be for it.

It's ultimately a question of VALUE and LONG-TERM building for me. Paying Manning $22-$25M per year makes little sense to me just to win a couple more division titles.

It's not even really about the money (I'm not paying and Denver has plenty of cap space). While everyone is sitting around stretching their a-holes to fit over PM's dick, for who knows how long, quality FAs will be signing elsewhere, and our nominal starting QB is growing more and more disenfranchised with the franchise every day. This is the same starting QB who I believe has the potential to win a SB in the league, if he's given something resembling a full offseason and maybe some help in FA. Alas, we're getting the worst of all worlds here--it's like a supermodel who recently broke up with her boyfriend and has a fair chance of carrying a venereal disease winked at us, so we decide to drop the perfectly adorable chick (with supermodel potential) who gave us great head all last year because...man...it's a supermodel! So we stroke our little dicks thinking about the possibility, but in the meantime we lose our jobs and the faith of the adorable chick, all because we're busy waiting around for the supermodel who has a fair chance of carrying a veneral disease, and accuse those who ask what we're doing of being sentimental Teboners.

Crushaholic
03-15-2012, 11:16 AM
Bowlen want to win now

Champ's window of opportunity is closing, so he would agree with that statement...

55CrushEm
03-15-2012, 11:18 AM
It's not even really about the money (I'm not paying and Denver has plenty of cap space). While everyone is sitting around stretching their a-holes to fit over PM's dick, for who knows how long, quality FAs will be signing elsewhere, and our nominal starting QB is growing more and more disenfranchised with the franchise every day. This is the same starting QB who I believe has the potential to win a SB in the league, if he's given something resembling a full offseason and maybe some help in FA. Alas, we're getting the worst of all worlds here--it's like a supermodel who recently broke up with her boyfriend and has a fair chance of carrying a venereal disease winked at us, so we decide to drop the perfectly adorable chick (with supermodel potential) who gave us great head all last year because...man...it's a supermodel! So we stroke our little ***** thinking about the possibility, but in the meantime we lose our jobs and the faith of the adorable chick, all because we're busy waiting around for the supermodel who has a fair chance of carrying a veneral disease, and accuse those who ask what we're doing of being sentimental Teboners.

LOL

Nice.

errand
03-15-2012, 11:22 AM
Personally this had got **** all to do with Tebow for me and I actually applauded the approach for Manning but if you manage to get a Peyton Manning you dont go half in, you go all ****ing in, strengthen the rest of the team and make that major push.

Sitting in Dove Valley holding your cock waiting for a call is not how you run a franchise or ever hope to get back to the Superbowl.

Sorry John but you've failed miserably in that regard.

I hope Pat Bowlen checked out your resume'.....between you, MacGruber as OC, and Rev as DC, who needs guys that have been in the nfl with tons of experience?

errand
03-15-2012, 11:27 AM
Says they guy wanting to replace the Broncos' QB with the one from the Colts.

So why are you b****ing about FO not signing FA's?

So you wouldn't want Ed Reed, or Mario Williams? You got a problem with us acquiring better players that previously played elsewhere....or just QB's?

errand
03-15-2012, 11:38 AM
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/2008-07-26-2086780297_x.htm



I wonder if anyone told them they weren't real Jets fans.

You don't think that clown wearing a #10 jersey with "team chad" on it might be just a tad biased?

bendog
03-15-2012, 12:06 PM
This actually got 4 pages. LOL

Al Wilson
03-15-2012, 12:17 PM
Oh dear god. Shut the **** up. Who would you rather have: Tim Tebow or Peyton Manning. Stop crying, and whining like a bunch of losers. Manning is 100000 times the QB Tebow is...even though I love Tebow to death.

BroncoBeavis
03-15-2012, 12:27 PM
Oh dear god. Shut the **** up. Who would you rather have: Tim Tebow or Peyton Manning. Stop crying, and whining like a bunch of losers. Manning is 100000 times the QB Tebow is...even though I love Tebow to death.

The real question is who do you want in 3 years? Tim Tebow or the memory of Peyton Manning losing in the first round of the playoffs a couple times?

Let's be honest, that's the most likely scenario we'll be facing in the near future.

Butterscotch Stallion
03-15-2012, 12:27 PM
Oh dear god. Shut the **** up. Who would you rather have: Tim Tebow or Peyton Manning. Stop crying, and whining like a bunch of losers. Manning is 100000 times the QB Tebow is...even though I love Tebow to death.

post surgery 36 year old 90 million manning or 25(?) year old promising 7 mill tebow in a rebuild?


yeah. I think the question should be"would you rather mortgage the future or continue the already successfull rebuild intelligently?

DenverBroncosJM
03-15-2012, 12:35 PM
This might come as a shock but..P. Manning is not going to make this team a superbowl contender.

55CrushEm
03-15-2012, 12:37 PM
This might come as a shock but..P. Manning is not going to make this team a superbowl contender.

You Tebowner.

Blueflame
03-15-2012, 12:42 PM
I'm sure the Broncos have a number set aside for PM beyond which they will not go. So, whatever is left over can be employed. They don't need to wait for PM to know what they will do on D. But from all appearances, they are talking to nobody, bringing nobody in, and showing a complete lack of interest, other than in Manning. WTF?

The entire offseason strategy changes depending on whether the starter at QB is Manning or Tebow, Roh. If it's Manning, then Denver will be attractive to FA receivers (TE or WR); if it's Tebow, then good luck; we're probably going to have to improve the WR corps via the draft. Everything changes depending on Manning's decision.

55CrushEm
03-15-2012, 12:50 PM
The entire offseason strategy changes depending on whether the starter at QB is Manning or Tebow, Roh. If it's Manning, then Denver will be attractive to FA receivers (TE or WR); if it's Tebow, then good luck; we're probably going to have to improve the WR corps via the draft. Everything changes depending on Manning's decision.

We need just as much help on D, Blue. Is that also mandated by whether or not Manning signs?

All we've considered so far is 1 crap DB, and 2 more DBs over 30 years old.

I've never been more frustrated by lack of action.

jhns
03-15-2012, 12:52 PM
The entire offseason strategy changes depending on whether the starter at QB is Manning or Tebow, Roh. If it's Manning, then Denver will be attractive to FA receivers (TE or WR); if it's Tebow, then good luck; we're probably going to have to improve the WR corps via the draft. Everything changes depending on Manning's decision.

That is why he said to look at defense now. Your hate for Tebow is making you dumb.

Blueflame
03-15-2012, 12:54 PM
We need just as much help on D, Blue. Is that also mandated by whether or not Manning signs?

All we've considered so far is 1 crap DB, and 2 more DBs over 30 years old.

I've never been more frustrated by lack of action.

Yes, we do need help on D. Which is what I meant by "the strategy changes"... if Manning signs and we can get a decent FA WR or TE (Dallas Clark, anyone?), then we can use our draft picks on defense rather than having to consider taking a WR with #25 overall.

55CrushEm
03-15-2012, 12:55 PM
Yes, we do need help on D. Which is what I meant by "the strategy changes"... if Manning signs and we can get a decent FA WR or TE (Dallas Clark, anyone?), then we can use our draft picks on defense rather than having to consider taking a WR with #25 overall.

I get that......but we also only have 6 draft picks, yet we have over 500 free agents to choose from.

The lack of action on D so far is......frustrating.

Blueflame
03-15-2012, 12:59 PM
I get that......but we also only have 6 draft picks, yet we have over 500 free agents to choose from.

The lack of action on D so far is......frustrating.

I'll be happy if we get Trufant.

It seems wise to me though... to know which direction you're going before you take off. Much as I'd like Manning's answer (like 5 days ago... lol), it's a big decision for him and for his family and he's one of the few FAs worth waiting for.

55CrushEm
03-15-2012, 01:02 PM
I'll be happy if we get Trufant.

It seems wise to me though... to know which direction you're going before you take off. Much as I'd like Manning's answer (like 5 days ago... lol), it's a big decision for him and for his family and he's one of the few FAs worth waiting for.

Well, I so DO want this to work out in the optimal way.....bring in Manning ($15-17M range)......

.....AND keep Tebow to learn from the greatest. Nobody reads a defense better than Manning.

Blueflame
03-15-2012, 01:11 PM
Well, I so DO want this to work out in the optimal way.....bring in Manning ($15-17M range)......

.....AND keep Tebow to learn from the greatest. Nobody reads a defense better than Manning.

The "wait" for Manning's decision is nerve-wracking... but there's really no other option than to "see it through to the end" now that we've taken the pursuit as far as we have. May whatever happens wind up having a positive effect on the Broncos.

keef
03-15-2012, 01:18 PM
Really..? The NFL is a business.. the players know this and should be professional. Elway is trying to make the team better and win Championships.

The question people have to ask themselves.. 'Are you a Broncos fan..? or a Tebow fan..?'

I'm a Broncos fan first... I appreciate Elway trying to make the team better.. Thank you Mr Elway.


I've always enjoyed this site and reading the various opinions on it....but BroncoBen's avatar updates really keep me checking back more frequently than I ought to.

TDmvp
03-15-2012, 01:20 PM
I've always enjoyed this site and reading the various opinions on it....but BroncoBen's avatar updates really keep me checking back more frequently than I ought to.

Yea lately it's been one of few reasons to check threads.

Sassy
03-15-2012, 01:21 PM
Oh for effs sake. Cry us all a river. Its a business, and Elway is in this business to win CHAMPIONSHIPS, not pat Timmy T on the head and tell him how muchhe loves him.

Hilarious!^5
Exactly!!!

BroncoBeavis
03-15-2012, 01:24 PM
I've always enjoyed this site and reading the various opinions on it....but BroncoBen's avatar updates really keep me checking back more frequently than I ought to.

Just can't get into this one all that much. Looks kinda like Emperor Palpatine with nice Jugs.

DenverBroncosJM
03-15-2012, 01:32 PM
Yes, we do need help on D. Which is what I meant by "the strategy changes"... if Manning signs and we can get a decent FA WR or TE (Dallas Clark, anyone?), then we can use our draft picks on defense rather than having to consider taking a WR with #25 overall.

Just for ****s and Giggles..Which decent FA Wide Receivers and TE's are you speaking about? Decent FA WR and TE sign where ever the money is.

I am curious who you think will come here dependent on PM signing

Clark is not one of them..although he is hurt and didnt play much last season so actually he fits right in with the FO plan so far.

DenverBroncosJM
03-15-2012, 01:37 PM
Oh for effs sake. Cry us all a river. Its a business, and Elway is in this business to win CHAMPIONSHIPS, not pat Timmy T on the head and tell him how muchhe loves him.

Ill say it again P. Manning is not going to bring us a championship. Speaking of business wasnt it estimated that Tebow brought in more money (to the franchise) than any other single player?

That sounds like business to me and he won a few games a long the way to sound like a win win.

barryr
03-15-2012, 01:41 PM
Ill say it again P. Manning is not going to bring us a championship. Speaking of business wasnt it estimated that Tebow brought in more money (to the franchise) than any other single player?

That sounds like business to me and he won a few games a long the way to sound like a win win.

Yeah, Manning himself does not make this roster a 12 win team. Bottom line, just like with coaches, unless the QB is firmly entriched as the starter, when a new coach and FO comes into play, they want their own QB. Tebow was not a Fox or Elway pick and Tebow isn't a proven thing, so they want their QB and it isn't Tebow.

OBF1
03-15-2012, 01:47 PM
Man it is the same shiat on the mane every single god damn day.


The point of the thread..... If you are smart enough to follow (Which alot of you here have proven you are not) Is that Elway is a liar. It has nothing to do with how great or how much Tebow sucks.

Sitting on your thumbs with your boxers around your ankles will not make this team a contender. Taking Manning on a tour of Denver will not bring Denver another Superbowl title. Sitting back and not bringing in a single available player that is a need of this team is a crime. We won 8 games with Tebow behind center.... with a defense that is pretty much a joke. I guess when Peyton tells the world that he is not coming to Denver, what will be Mr. Elways reaction or plan of attack then? All of the top free agents will have signed with other teams by then. We already have crap playing at half of the positions on defense, we do not need to sign more crap, We need atleast league average to above average players to make this defense better.

Sit back John and let the world pass you by while the likes of JD Walton, Daniel Fells, Eric Decker, Joe Mays, Quinton Carter, Andre Goodman and DJ Williams, Marcus Thomas, David Bruton scare the opposition to death. Maybe 1 of them would be a starter on another team in the NFL, we have all 9 of them starting for our Denver Broncos.

Tell us John, what do you plan on doing when pal Peyton saids no to you... then eff'n what?

Fedaykin
03-15-2012, 01:54 PM
The lack of FA action (even on D) makes perfect sense in our current situation.

EFX's stated plan has always been to build through the draft, not through big time FA signings. If we don't land PM, I don't see them deviating from that plan. Why would you dump a bunch of money into high priced free agents on the wrong end of their career when you have a project QB?

Now, if we do land PM, I expect they'll be aggressively going after FAs like in the Shanny days because the window of opportunity with PM will be small (2-3 years max)

Blueflame
03-15-2012, 01:55 PM
Just for ****s and Giggles..Which decent FA Wide Receivers and TE's are you speaking about? Decent FA WR and TE sign where ever the money is.

I am curious who you think will come here dependent on PM signing

Clark is not one of them..although he is hurt and didnt play much last season so actually he fits right in with the FO plan so far.

OK... (snagged from the free agency thread):

Chaz Schilens WR NY Jets and Arizona in talks, visiting SF 49ers

Jericho Cotchery WR Jets want to re-sign him

Mario Manningham WR linked with SF49ers, Buffalo and Miami

Joel Dreesen TE visiting New Orleans

Anthony Gonzalez WR visiting New England

Jeremy Shockey TE wants to return to the NY Giants

Kevin Ogletree WR visiting NY Giants

Any of these guys would be more interested in the Broncos if we do sign Manning. (I left Eddie Royal and Brandon Lloyd off the list).

Hulamau
03-15-2012, 02:03 PM
Dear John Elway,


I love Tim Tebow and a lot of other people do to. How dare you try and get one of the best quarterbacks of all time to come here and play. That would mean Manning would play because he is better. However I do not like Manning as much as I like Tebow. That is a problem for you, sir. How dare you make this team better at the QB position. Did I mention I like Tim Tebow? Well let me reiterate that I do and he is very famous. Tebow has a lot of fans. They are mad you are trying to suggest someone throws better than he does. Very mad! Manning Schmanning, I like Tebow and Manning here means Tebow will not start and I am mad. So there!

-Signed
Nurrrr

:kiss:

maher_tyler
03-15-2012, 02:05 PM
Bringing in Manning is like buying a used car with the check engine light on..you just don't do it! If you do, you hope its nothing serious.

BroncoBeavis
03-15-2012, 02:08 PM
The lack of FA action (even on D) makes perfect sense in our current situation.

EFX's stated plan has always been to build through the draft, not through big time FA signings. If we don't land PM, I don't see them deviating from that plan. Why would you dump a bunch of money into high priced free agents on the wrong end of their career when you have a project QB?

Now, if we do land PM, I expect they'll be aggressively going after FAs like in the Shanny days because the window of opportunity with PM will be small (2-3 years max)

Dude, those are cute FO soundbites and all. But when you're literally talking about losing more free agents than you have draft picks... "Build through the Draft" becomes far less cute.

Especially from a team thinking about dropping 90 Mil on a single free agent.

55CrushEm
03-15-2012, 02:09 PM
Why would you dump a bunch of money into high priced free agents on the wrong end of their career when you have a project QB?


Isn't that exactly what PM is ?!?!

BroncoBeavis
03-15-2012, 02:10 PM
Bringing in Manning is like buying a used car with the check engine light on..you just don't do it! If you do, you hope its nothing serious.

Don't forget the 250,000 miles on the odometer.

riiiiick
03-15-2012, 02:25 PM
Is the goal playoff wins or SB? Yet the OP says this way has never won a SB in the history of the league. Best we can do, history says, is another playoff win. Not enough IMHO. Fools gold for those who don't learn from history.

Fedaykin
03-15-2012, 02:28 PM
Isn't that exactly what PM is ?!?!

Did you not read the whole sentence?

ScottXray
03-15-2012, 02:35 PM
The "wait" for Manning's decision is nerve-wracking... but there's really no other option than to "see it through to the end" now that we've taken the pursuit as far as we have. May whatever happens wind up having a positive effect on the Broncos.

Agree about Manning and waiting for his decision. Do not agree about NO action on FAs. Defense is NOT affected by Manning. We need to improve that no matter who is at QB, and we should be actively talking to players now, and before now. On offense we could have talked to the better O linemen, TE's. That is dependent on Manning somewhat due to the level of the run game vs pass game.

But it also shows that they are not planning on doing much different on Offense if Tebow stays as the starter....I take that as a bad sign that they are just going to play out his string next year, with no real help added if Manning is not here.

Tombstone RJ
03-15-2012, 02:35 PM
Man it is the same shiat on the mane every single god damn day.


The point of the thread..... If you are smart enough to follow (Which alot of you here have proven you are not) Is that Elway is a liar. It has nothing to do with how great or how much Tebow sucks.

Sitting on your thumbs with your boxers around your ankles will not make this team a contender. Taking Manning on a tour of Denver will not bring Denver another Superbowl title. Sitting back and not bringing in a single available player that is a need of this team is a crime. We won 8 games with Tebow behind center.... with a defense that is pretty much a joke. I guess when Peyton tells the world that he is not coming to Denver, what will be Mr. Elways reaction or plan of attack then? All of the top free agents will have signed with other teams by then. We already have crap playing at half of the positions on defense, we do not need to sign more crap, We need atleast league average to above average players to make this defense better.

Sit back John and let the world pass you by while the likes of JD Walton, Daniel Fells, Eric Decker, Joe Mays, Quinton Carter, Andre Goodman and DJ Williams, Marcus Thomas, David Bruton scare the opposition to death. Maybe 1 of them would be a starter on another team in the NFL, we have all 9 of them starting for our Denver Broncos.

Tell us John, what do you plan on doing when pal Peyton saids no to you... then eff'n what?

ok, we understand. Elway is a liar.

Now pull your head out and think about this (and the OP Moops too). Do you ever wonder why GMs and HC are so reluctant to say anything? That is, do you ever wonder why they use so many cliches like "We just want to improve the team" and "Any time have ___________________ (insert cliche here ala Mike Shanahan) you have a great opportunity to ______________"

You ever wonder why the front offices are so milk toast in their information?

Well maybe it's because of crap like this!

yah think?

Tombstone RJ
03-15-2012, 02:37 PM
Bwaah! Elway lied to us!! Bwaaaahhahahaha!!

Rohirrim
03-15-2012, 02:38 PM
Don't forget the 250,000 miles on the odometer.

When you see Peyton, for the first time, under center in the orange & blue, taking a defense apart with a bunch of crisp passes, you're going to...

http://ilovemychurch.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/ZIP-LIP.jpg

55CrushEm
03-15-2012, 02:41 PM
Bwaah! Elway lied to us!! Bwaaaahhahahaha!!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Fla9FxpZPLc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

bombay
03-15-2012, 02:42 PM
Dear John Elway,


I love Tim Tebow and a lot of other people do to. How dare you try and get one of the best quarterbacks of all time to come here and play. That would mean Manning would play because he is better. However I do not like Manning as much as I like Tebow. That is a problem for you, sir. How dare you make this team better at the QB position. Did I mention I like Tim Tebow? Well let me reiterate that I do and he is very famous. Tebow has a lot of fans. They are mad you are trying to suggest someone throws better than he does. Very mad! Manning Schmanning, I like Tebow and Manning here means Tebow will not start and I am mad. So there!

-Signed
Nurrrr


Not to mention Timmy has the biggest posse since... Biggie! and they need to work for a starter, not a clipboard holder. Not only unfair to Timmy but the 20-30 hangers on who would cause people to hate him if he were Michael Vick.

broncocalijohn
03-15-2012, 02:43 PM
Our defense was VERY good on those Superbowl teams. It was merely overshadowed by an elite offense.

Take the repeat year.......for all intents and purposes....our defense didn't give up a MEANINGFUL touchdown that entire playoff run.

38-3 vs. Miami

23-10 vs. NY Jets......the only TD given up was when we had a punt blocked on the 1-yard line...you can hardly fault that on the defense.

34-19 vs. Atlanta......1 TD was a Tim Dwight kick return, the other was total garbage time at the very end.

You can argue our defense pitched a total TD shutout in the playoffs. Not to mention Flash Gordon having FOUR interceptions in the AFCCG and Superbowl.

Our defenses were VERY GOOD.

Wish I answered sooner. I was saying that Shanahan came to the Broncos with a defense that was not superbowl caliber. He built it in a few years which if you look from the 97 team to the 95 team, there was major changes. This could happen in 2 years. Turnover for the good can be 5 players or more. With 11 on the field, that can spell a SB run.

Kaylore
03-15-2012, 02:46 PM
The OP has a great point, though. People come to see Tebow. Who is going to pay to watch Peyton Manning play football? Gotta think about that one, Elway!

Tombstone RJ
03-15-2012, 02:48 PM
I guess Elway should just shut his pie hole yes? Maybe Elway should just stick with the tried and true cliches so if and when circumstance change he won't be called a liar?

I'm just trying to understand the entitlement of some people.

Fact is, things change. I'm pretty darn sure Elway likes TT. I'm also pretty darn sure Elway thinks Manning can get this team to a SB a lot faster. So what is Elway supposed to do? He's damned if he does, he's damned if he doesn't.

That is, if he doesn't pursue the HoF QB many fans are going to question him. "Why didn't you go after Manning!"

Then, you got the TT supporters "Why are you lying to us? Why are you NOT building this team through the draft like you PROMISED?"

whatever...

BroncoBeavis
03-15-2012, 02:57 PM
When you see Peyton, for the first time, under center in the orange & blue, taking a defense apart with a bunch of crisp passes, you're going to...

Biggest worry for the Broncos is if they ship Timmy and he gets placed under a halfway intelligent OC who puts him in spread formations and utilizes the dual threat.

I'd give that team a chance to win a ring in the next 3 years before I'd give Peyton and the Low-Pay Retreads a shot.

If Timmy looks decent elsewhere and Peyton falls anywhere short of a title, this team would become a small-market disaster franchise. It would be a sports dark age in Denver.

Blueflame
03-15-2012, 02:58 PM
Agree about Manning and waiting for his decision. Do not agree about NO action on FAs. Defense is NOT affected by Manning. We need to improve that no matter who is at QB, and we should be actively talking to players now, and before now. On offense we could have talked to the better O linemen, TE's. That is dependent on Manning somewhat due to the level of the run game vs pass game.

But it also shows that they are not planning on doing much different on Offense if Tebow stays as the starter....I take that as a bad sign that they are just going to play out his string next year, with no real help added if Manning is not here.

To me, it's a question of knowing how much FA money will be left (Manning would take about half of what we have). I'd like to see them bring in RBs Bush and Tolbert... and a few more defensive players (besides just Trufant). But maybe they'll be more active once they know for sure what the situation is with "the biggest FA fish of 2012".

Kaylore
03-15-2012, 03:02 PM
Elway didn't lie, CBF. He made those comments before they cut Manning. What is he supposed to promise to never sign anyone at the QB position no matter who is available?

ScottXray
03-15-2012, 03:11 PM
I guess Elway should just shut his pie hole yes? Maybe Elway should just stick with the tried and true cliches so if and when circumstance change he won't be called a liar?

I'm just trying to understand the entitlement of some people.

Fact is, things change. I'm pretty darn sure Elway likes TT. I'm also pretty darn sure Elway thinks Manning can get this team to a SB a lot faster. So what is Elway supposed to do? He's damned if he does, he's damned if he doesn't.

That is, if he doesn't pursue the HoF QB many fans are going to question him. "Why didn't you go after Manning!"

Then, you got the TT supporters "Why are you lying to us? Why are you NOT building this team through the draft like you PROMISED?"

whatever...


This is frustrating for both sides of the question. I like Tebow, but know that
Manning would be a great help to the team, both on the field and MAYBE in FA acquisitions.. I have no problem with pursuing him.

My dislike would be if we give him a contract that is too big. And to me that would be anything that is larger than about 16-17 mil a year. The best QBs in the league get about that ( Brady, Rodgers, even Phllis, etc ) and frankly they are probably as good or BETTER than Manning is right now. We won't know until he signs...but the signs are all there that this is going to be a huge contract.

Also, sitting around waiting for PM to make a decision is frustrating. Apparently we are willling to spend big money on him, but not on anyone else? This seems to be pretty inconsistant. We already have a QB and team , that could also benefit from some addtional resources being put into certain positions. But nothing is going forward ( ok we finally signed a non premiere safety , probably cause Dawkins is done. Adequate to bring along the young-uns and such but just average. )

Anyway the point is that there are reasons besides Tebow that I am questioning the moves , or lack of same. I thought that the FO is supposed to be trying to
make the team better? ONE player can't help that much, and as others have pointed out...we need a lot of help, more than the draft can possibly accomplish.

db56
03-15-2012, 03:12 PM
If Manning comes to Denver I will no longer be a Broncos fan, period! I know you all cant wait to tell me to get lost and we dont give a @3it and all that, I dont blame you for it but I dont give a Fk!

I'm not a Tebow fan, I've been a Broncos fan. a fan of the organization that drafts athletes they believe in and pays them when they put in the work. the last decade has been one disaster after another and it just keeps getting worse!

I guess baby J was right, the front office is bunch of liars, its easy to understand why he didnt want to play here anymore. he wanted no part of it and neither do I.

nobody could blame Tebow for flipping the Broncos the bird and demanding to be out of here, maybe Elway should pull another great FO move and trade him for a 6th round pick.

Tombstone RJ
03-15-2012, 03:14 PM
Biggest worry for the Broncos is if they ship Timmy and he gets placed under a halfway intelligent OC who puts him in spread formations and utilizes the dual threat.

I'd give that team a chance to win a ring in the next 3 years before I'd give Peyton and the Low-Pay Retreads a shot.

If Timmy looks decent elsewhere and Peyton falls anywhere short of a title, this team would become a small-market disaster franchise. It would be a sports dark age in Denver.

well I guess this is why your not an NFL GM. Sorry homey, but your TT love has blinded you. I like TT too, I know your kid loves TT and he should because TT is a great role model.

What TT is NOT is a great QB. Not yet anyway. Will he become a great QB, who knows? Yet you are going to tell me that TT is a sure thing?

"Just give him a spread offense and watch the Broncos win SBs guaranteed!"--signed BroncoBeavis.

As much as I'd like TT to be the next great QB for the Broncos, I actually have some legitimate doubts. I'm not sure he will ever be able to thread that needle, or throw that ball into those extremely small windows. Am I wrong about these doubts? Perhaps yes. However I'm willing to take my chances with Manning should he be 100% healthy and sign with Denver.

If not, then we will see what happens with TT. Either way, Elway has little to lose and much to gain with signing Manning. If TT was such a sure thing, then there would by 25 other teams lining up to trade for him, correct?

ScottXray
03-15-2012, 03:20 PM
To me, it's a question of knowing how much FA money will be left (Manning would take about half of what we have). I'd like to see them bring in RBs Bush and Tolbert... and a few more defensive players (besides just Trufant). But maybe they'll be more active once they know for sure what the situation is with "the biggest FA fish of 2012".

To me its a matter of anything over 16-17 mill a year is TOO much for Manning. Brady only gets 18...and he has had better results than Manning. Manning is a big fish..but he isn't worth more than Brady. Peformance clauses for Afc champ , super bowl appearance and SB wins are the only things that should kick it up beyond 16 base.

Overpaying for Manning is still just overpaying.

sinuous sausage
03-15-2012, 03:24 PM
Elway didn't lie, CBF. He made those comments before they cut Manning. What is he supposed to promise to never sign anyone at the QB position no matter who is available?

So he's just myopic? My mom knew Peyton had a good chance of leaving Indy. Why open his mouth in the first place?

jonny1
03-15-2012, 03:25 PM
What I don't get is this:

When was Tebow most effective? Hurry-up, spread offense? Right?

What has Peyton been great at? The hurry-up with a spread, right? In general?

Manning is the kind of QB Elway wants, so why can't Tebow sit and watch and learn how Manning does it?

Rohirrim
03-15-2012, 03:26 PM
What I don't get is this:

When was Tebow most effective? Hurry-up, spread offense? Right?

What has Peyton been great at? The hurry-up with a spread, right? In general?

Manning is the kind of QB Elway wants, so why can't Tebow sit and watch and learn how Manning does it?

A god doesn't sit and watch.

gunns
03-15-2012, 03:27 PM
Really..? The NFL is a business.. the players know this and should be professional. Elway is trying to make the team better and win Championships.

The question people have to ask themselves.. 'Are you a Broncos fan..? or a Tebow fan..?'

I'm a Broncos fan first... I appreciate Elway trying to make the team better.. Thank you Mr Elway.

This. Absolutely.

Tombstone RJ
03-15-2012, 03:31 PM
So he's just myopic? My mom knew Peyton had a good chance of leaving Indy. Why open his mouth in the first place?

Well for one thing because people kept cramming a mic in his face and demanding an answer on TT, that's why.

Again, see my above rant on why NFL GMs don't ever say anything of substance.

cutthemdown
03-15-2012, 03:43 PM
What a joke. I'm sick of people acting like Tebow had this great yr. We were 8-8 big deal. He played like crap at the end of the season and got bailed out because the afc west is so bad right now.

rbackfactory80
03-15-2012, 04:08 PM
Great post! Thanks op.

houghtam
03-15-2012, 04:08 PM
I'm assuming you're referring to blowout losses to better teams like NE and DET right? That couldn't have been due to the countless strings of 3 and outs and poor field position, could it?

No.

It was 24-3 at halftime in the DET game. DET had 300 yards of offense in the first half.

The Broncos offense only had three 3 and outs in the first NE game, and kept pace with the NE in the first half, scoring 20 points.

It would help if you actually watched games. You get a neg rep, sir.

rbackfactory80
03-15-2012, 04:13 PM
No.

It was 24-3 at halftime in the DET game. DET had 300 yards of offense in the first half.

The Broncos offense only had three 3 and outs in the first NE game, and kept pace with the NE in the first half, scoring 20 points.

It would help if you actually watched games. You get a neg rep, sir.

That dude only sees what he wants to see.

Football is a pretty cool sport if you decide to watch it.

sinuous sausage
03-15-2012, 04:25 PM
Well for one thing because people kept cramming a mic in his face and demanding an answer on TT, that's why.

Again, see my above rant on why NFL GMs don't ever say anything of substance.

That's not any better. Then his tactic would seem to be 1) get flustered 2) blurt out nonsense 3) take action directly contradicting blurted nonsense.

Either way, it's not exactly savvy or informed, which is exactly what I'd call this cluster**** of a pursuit for Peyton Manning.

Tombstone RJ
03-15-2012, 04:31 PM
That's not any better. Then his tactic would seem to be 1) get flustered 2) blurt out nonsense 3) take action directly contradicting blurted nonsense.

Either way, it's not exactly savvy or informed, which is exactly what I'd call this cluster**** of a pursuit for Peyton Manning.

ok, please tell everyone what Elway should have said about the QB position. And no, you don't get to benefit from hindsight.

Go ahead, enlighten us.

errand
03-15-2012, 04:36 PM
Biggest worry for the Broncos is if they ship Timmy and he gets placed under a halfway intelligent OC who puts him in spread formations and utilizes the dual threat.

I'd give that team a chance to win a ring in the next 3 years before I'd give Peyton and the Low-Pay Retreads a shot.

If Timmy looks decent elsewhere and Peyton falls anywhere short of a title, this team would become a small-market disaster franchise. It would be a sports dark age in Denver.

I'm struggling to name any one player that the Broncos dumped that became great anywhere else...Willie Brown I guess is about it, right? shannon sharpe? He already established his greatness prior to leaving Denver for Baltimore....Cutler maybe?...but making the NFC title game isn't like releasing Drew Brees and watching him win a SB elsewhere, or trading an Elway and watching him start in 5 SB's winning two now is it?

As for your betting on Tebow winning a title in 3 years if he goes to another team...who is gonna do that for Tim? What team is gonna implement Tim's old college offense in the belief he'll win them a title...because you figure with all the drama the nuthuggers are creating, surely ONE team would gamble on him...and do what you're saying they should do. i mean if you're bright enough to figure it out...why hasn't anyone else in the NFL done likewise?

Now while your opinion that anything less than a SB win is a failure should we sign Manning is Ok to have, I don't see how falling short of that goal would be bad for Broncos. What if we make it to AFC title gameor better yet the SB and lose....you saying that would be a waste of money and resources? Versus possibly not making playoffs at all?

You sound like those morons back in the early 90's who said they'd rather not make the playoffs at all than go to SB and get asses whipped.....

sinuous sausage
03-15-2012, 04:37 PM
What a joke. I'm sick of people acting like Tebow had this great yr. We were 8-8 big deal. He played like crap at the end of the season and got bailed out because the afc west is so bad right now.

Which is exactly why he should stick around. Raw and undisciplined, with a team full of scrubs, this kid led an 8-5 run and beat the defending AFC champs for the Broncos' first playoff victory in five years. Yet somehow anyone around here who thinks that might warrant a little patience, and maybe even an attempt to shore up a shabby defense w/ quality FAs (whose services we'll need even if Tim doesn't work out), is dismissed out of hand for thinking an expensive, injury-plagued QB, whose best years are behind him, isn't the silver bullet. The Broncos finally get a youth movement, some cap space, a potential franchise QB with moxie and intangibles off-the-chart, and they decide to go back down the rabbit hole for a player who will be around no more than 3-4 years in the best of situations. Just whatever!

Butterscotch Stallion
03-15-2012, 04:41 PM
What a joke. I'm sick of people acting like Tebow had this great yr. We were 8-8 big deal. He played like crap at the end of the season and got bailed out because the afc west is so bad right now.

maybe its the hormones from your period, but this is so dumb, helen keller feels sorry for it.

errand
03-15-2012, 04:42 PM
Don't forget the 250,000 miles on the odometer.


...or we can keep our shiny new Chevy Chevette eh?

maher_tyler
03-15-2012, 04:43 PM
When you see Peyton, for the first time, under center in the orange & blue, taking a defense apart with a bunch of crisp passes, you're going to...

http://ilovemychurch.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/ZIP-LIP.jpg

...right after he zipped that pass in there, he was grabbed by the facemask and leaves the field on a stretcher!

Butterscotch Stallion
03-15-2012, 04:44 PM
...or we can keep our shiny new Chevy Chevette eh?

be carefull, the bias you always pretend to not have in between your crying vagfests, is showing.

Fedaykin
03-15-2012, 04:45 PM
When did Bronco nation become Whiner Nation?

When an elite HOF calibre QB becomes a possibility and all you have is a project QB -- it's not even a question of what was said by whom: you go for it.

barryr
03-15-2012, 04:45 PM
With the way Tebow has gotten put down, even more so since the Manning sweepstakes, hard to see how Tebow can honestly believe he will get a fair shake in this town by those fans if Manning does not sign with the Broncos. "Oh, we will still give you a chance to improve." Right. Any incomplete pass or any pass not thrown with perfection will be a sign he can't play. But how the Broncos can go back to Tebow if Manning isn't around and tell him "we really believe in you" with a straight face is hard to imagine.

errand
03-15-2012, 04:51 PM
be carefull, the bias you always pretend to not have in between your crying vagfests, is showing.

I'm not crying dude...the nuthuggers are, or have you not read any of the threads since Elway started his quest for Manning?

I haven't started one solitary thread advocating we sign this guy or that guy...or to get rid of this guy or that guy, nor have I whined about john elway lying to me, like he owes me anything other than fielding the best team he can and winning as many titles as he can.

your nut job cronies have started the vast majority those kind of threads in here..

Tombstone RJ
03-15-2012, 04:51 PM
With the way Tebow has gotten put down, even more so since the Manning sweepstakes, hard to see how Tebow can honestly believe he will get a fair shake in this town by those fans if Manning does not sign with the Broncos. "Oh, we will still give you a chance to improve." Right. Any incomplete pass or any pass not thrown with perfection will be a sign he can't play. But how the Broncos can go back to Tebow if Manning isn't around and tell him "we really believe in you" with a straight face is hard to imagine.

Again, for the umpteenth time, it was Peyton Manning, not some run-of-the-mill QB. I really don't understand what the problem is. The Broncos and Elway can look TT in the eyes and say "yep, we went for it but it didn't work out, we always are trying to get better" and it would be true.

What if Adrien Peterson was cut loose from the Vikings, are you going to tell me that the Broncos should not pursue him because it would hurt Moreno's feelings?

get out.

Butterscotch Stallion
03-15-2012, 04:51 PM
With the way Tebow has gotten put down, even more so since the Manning sweepstakes, hard to see how Tebow can honestly believe he will get a fair shake in this town by those fans if Manning does not sign with the Broncos. "Oh, we will still give you a chance to improve." Right. Any incomplete pass or any pass not thrown with perfection will be a sign he can't play. But how the Broncos can go back to Tebow if Manning isn't around and tell him "we really believe in you" with a straight face is hard to imagine.

tebow will be fine. his whole career has been pounding the vaginas into submission. I have and will continue to enjoy watching it here. the haters are the biggest group of droopy vaginas since the golden girls casting call.

errand
03-15-2012, 04:54 PM
With the way Tebow has gotten put down, even more so since the Manning sweepstakes, hard to see how Tebow can honestly believe he will get a fair shake in this town by those fans if Manning does not sign with the Broncos. "Oh, we will still give you a chance to improve." Right. Any incomplete pass or any pass not thrown with perfection will be a sign he can't play. But how the Broncos can go back to Tebow if Manning isn't around and tell him "we really believe in you" with a straight face is hard to imagine.


How ironic...a QB that basically got his job due to fans whining about him not playing because he was so much better than the other guy now has to watch those same fans of his whine about him maybe losing his job to a QB that is so much better than him.....

rbackfactory80
03-15-2012, 04:56 PM
How ironic...a QB that basically got his job due to fans whining about him not playing because he was so much better than the other guy now has to watch those same fans of his whine about him maybe losing his job to a QB that is so much better than him.....

Errand, get over it. Your whining like a little girl again.

errand
03-15-2012, 04:56 PM
tebow will be fine. his whole career has been pounding the vaginas into submission. I have and will continue to enjoy watching it here. the haters are the biggest group of droopy vaginas since the golden girls casting call.

you know, the NFL has 31 other teams.....one of them is just an hour's drive away for you.

errand
03-15-2012, 04:58 PM
Errand, get over it. Your whining like a little girl again.


Yeah, i'm whining....the numerous threads I've started bitching about the Broncos is evidence of it....Hilarious!

rbackfactory80
03-15-2012, 05:01 PM
Yeah, i'm whining....the numerous threads I've started b****ing about the Broncos is evidence of it....Hilarious!

It truly is amazing reading what you post and then listening to your interpretation of what you post. Drugs must be good in the mountains down there.

Butterscotch Stallion
03-15-2012, 05:01 PM
How ironic...a QB that basically got his job due to fans whining about him not playing because he was so much better than the other guy now has to watch those same fans of his whine about him maybe losing his job to a QB that is so much better than him.....

my sister told me to tell you to soak your tampons in vodka before inserting...she says it will stabilize your moods.

errand
03-15-2012, 05:01 PM
What if Adrien Peterson was cut loose from the Vikings, are you going to tell me that the Broncos should not pursue him because it would hurt Moreno's feelings?

get out.

You know i doubt this actually hurts Tebow's feelings as much as it hurts his nuthugging Bieber-esque whack job fans feelings

broncogary
03-15-2012, 05:01 PM
Marlin Briscoe.

errand
03-15-2012, 05:03 PM
my sister told me to tell you to soak your tampons in vodka before inserting...she says it will stabilize your moods.

Well that's nice to know......

Guess we know what you'll be doing if Manning signs with Broncos.

maher_tyler
03-15-2012, 05:03 PM
Which is exactly why he should stick around. Raw and undisciplined, with a team full of scrubs, this kid led an 8-5 run and beat the defending AFC champs for the Broncos' first playoff victory in five years. Yet somehow anyone around here who thinks that might warrant a little patience, and maybe even an attempt to shore up a shabby defense w/ quality FAs (whose services we'll need even if Tim doesn't work out), is dismissed out of hand for thinking an expensive, injury-plagued QB, whose best years are behind him, isn't the silver bullet. The Broncos finally get a youth movement, some cap space, a potential franchise QB with moxie and intangibles off-the-chart, and they decide to go back down the rabbit hole for a player who will be around no more than 3-4 years in the best of situations. Just whatever!

I'm pretty confident we would have finished 9-7/10-6 had TT played the entire year. My opinion. Also, the play calling was terrible all year long. I bet we ran the ball on 1st down over 90% of the time and was probably over 80% on 2nd down. Then when it was 3rd and long we'd throw...i'd like TT to improve but i'd also like the play calling to get better as well.

errand
03-15-2012, 05:08 PM
Marlin Briscoe.

Marlin did move onto miami and win a SB during their 17-0 run...but was he really "great"...I'd argue no, he wasn't. He's more what I'd consider infamous as he was the first black to start as a QB in the NFL's modern era, and his being on the aforementioned 17-0 dolphins....

I'm talking about what player did we release that went onto become a great player elsewhere after languishing on the bench in Denver, or even after being pedestrian playing for us?

willie Brown played 3 seasons with us in the early 60's and had a hall of fame career in Oakland, but I cannot recall anyone else doing likewise....not trying to talk smack...just asking if anyone can name another.

broncogary
03-15-2012, 05:10 PM
Marlin did move onto miami and win a SB during their 17-0 run...but was he really "great"...I'd argue no, he wasn't. He's more what I'd consider infamous as he was the first black to start as a QB in the NFL's modern era, and his being on the aforementioned 17-0 dolphins....

I'm talking about what player did we release that went onto become a great player elsewhere after languishing on the bench in Denver, or even after being pedestrian playing for us?

willie Brown played 3 seasons with us in the early 60's and had a hall of fame career in Oakland, but I cannot recall anyone else doing likewise....not trying to talk smack...just asking if anyone can name another.

He went on to make Pro Bowls.

Butterscotch Stallion
03-15-2012, 05:11 PM
Well that's nice to know......

Guess we know what you'll be doing if Manning signs with Broncos.

I will be happy with manning dumb****. then two years from now I will lament at the destruction of our franchise.

errand
03-15-2012, 05:13 PM
It truly is amazing reading what you post and then listening to your interpretation of what you post. Drugs must be good in the mountains down there.

again your love for Tebow is kind of creepy dude....

show me one post where i said we should get rid of Tebow for a player that wasn't better than he is? show me a thread that i started about any one player...even , where i advocated we dump him?

errand
03-15-2012, 05:18 PM
He went on to make Pro Bowls.

No, he made one Pro bowl...in 1970. Greatness is more than one or two pro bowls dude.....unless your definition of great is not the same as mine.

errand
03-15-2012, 05:20 PM
I will be happy with manning dumb****. then two years from now I will lament at the destruction of our franchise.

Destruction how? the Broncos have survived the loss of many decent to good players...I'm sure they'll be just fine without one Tim Tebow, should he too become a former Bronco.

sinuous sausage
03-15-2012, 05:51 PM
again your love for Tebow is kind of creepy dude....

show me one post where i said we should get rid of Tebow for a player that wasn't better than he is? show me a thread that i started about any one player...even , where i advocated we dump him?

If we take the whole "go out and get a player better than our current player" shtick to its logical end, the Denver Broncos should never take part in the NFL draft again

BroncoBeavis
03-15-2012, 05:51 PM
What TT is NOT is a great QB. Not yet anyway. Will he become a great QB, who knows? Yet you are going to tell me that TT is a sure thing?

Cam Newton's not a great QB either. But he can look pretty good in the right system. So can Tim.

broncogary
03-15-2012, 05:53 PM
No, he made one Pro bowl...in 1970. Greatness is more than one or two pro bowls dude.....unless your definition of great is not the same as mine.

Well then it was one more Pro Bowl than he made with the Broncos. Doesn't really matter, though. Different position.

maher_tyler
03-15-2012, 05:54 PM
Cam Newton's not a great QB either. But he can look pretty good in the right system. So can Tim.

Look at Alex Smith for another example.

errand
03-15-2012, 05:59 PM
If we take the whole "go out and get a player better than our current player" shtick to its logical end, the Denver Broncos should never take part in the NFL draft again

So you're saying that nobody coming out of college could be better than any player already on an NFL roster?

I guess Von should've sat the bench instead of leading us in sacks, huh?

Tombstone RJ
03-15-2012, 06:01 PM
Cam Newton's not a great QB either. But he can look pretty good in the right system. So can Tim.

Well if we don't get Manning I hope you are right.

houghtam
03-15-2012, 06:02 PM
When you see Peyton, for the first time, under center in the orange & blue, taking a defense apart with a bunch of crisp passes, you're going to...

http://ilovemychurch.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/ZIP-LIP.jpg

And then we're going to proceed to watch the defense get shredded on the next drive and wonder why the score is 24-7.

sinuous sausage
03-15-2012, 06:04 PM
So you're saying that nobody coming out of college could be better than any player already on an NFL roster?

I guess Von should've sat the bench instead of leading us in sacks, huh?

There's better guys out there! We didn't know it when we drafted him! What the hell is the FO thinking going after some untested rookie when some other vet could be had for millions of dollars?!?

rbackfactory80
03-15-2012, 06:22 PM
again your love for Tebow is kind of creepy dude....

show me one post where i said we should get rid of Tebow for a player that wasn't better than he is? show me a thread that i started about any one player...even , where i advocated we dump him?

lol creepy.

I would say my love for Tebow is patient. I'm not dumb enough to write him off after a season.

errand
03-15-2012, 06:29 PM
There's better guys out there! We didn't know it when we drafted him! What the hell is the FO thinking going after some untested rookie when some other vet could be had for millions of dollars?!?

Wow....ok.

You need to get a dictionary and look up the word "better".

Some players coming out of college are better than some players in the NFL. Some players on other NFL rosters are better than some players on our team's roster.

This year is a great example of that....Andrew Luck (coming out of college) is better than our current QB.....Peyton Manning (vet who played for another team) is better than our current QB.

Our current QB is better than Tavaris Jackson, and Caleb Hanie (vets on other nfl teams).....our current QB is better than several other QB's coming out of college.

See how that works?

Butterscotch Stallion
03-15-2012, 06:36 PM
Destruction how? the Broncos have survived the loss of many decent to good players...I'm sure they'll be just fine without one Tim Tebow, should he too become a former Bronco.

its not just tebow. it will be a second promising first rd pick in 6 years. also manning will probably be our highest paid fa in history. this team has the patience of a crackhead and it wont overcome this latest overpay in FA. our luck will ri
un out. think redsox after babe ruth trade.

13 years of this adds up to one babe ruth imo.

if it was just Tebow I would be fine. you dont quit on two 1st rd qbs in less than a decade and recover.

errand
03-15-2012, 06:36 PM
lol creepy.

I would say my love for Tebow is patient. I'm not dumb enough to write him off after a season.

I haven't wrote him off.....I just think he's not as good as Peyton Manning. Can he be as good? It's possible, but highly unlikely....doesn't mean he can't win a title in NFL....but his chances of doing so with his passing skils is decreased.

I'm not advocating dumping Tebow....I'm advocating signing Manning because he's better than Tebow.

Butterscotch Stallion
03-15-2012, 06:39 PM
I haven't wrote him off.....I just think he's not as good as Peyton Manning. Can he be as good? It's possible, but highly unlikely....doesn't mean he can't win a title in NFL....but his chances of doing so with his passing skils is decreased.

I'm not advocating dumping Tebow....I'm advocating signing Manning because he's better than Tebow.

right now he is. in three years he will probably retire. Id take any player over one who isnt playing. we arent good enough to get a title in the next three years especially if we shoot all our money at one guy with two years left.

any reasonable fan would see this is too high risk.

Turd_Ferguson
03-15-2012, 06:44 PM
And then we're going to proceed to watch the defense get shredded on the next drive and wonder why the score is 24-7.

If you recall in the most important game of the regular season, against Kansas City, the defense gave up 7 points, and the offense scored 3.... In must win game the defense came up big and the offense scored 3 points...yet somehow Tebow is credited with "taking us to the playoffs".

sinuous sausage
03-15-2012, 06:44 PM
Wow....ok.

You need to get a dictionary and look up the word "better".

Some players coming out of college are better than some players in the NFL. Some players on other NFL rosters are better than some players on our team's roster.

This year is a great example of that....Andrew Luck (coming out of college) is better than our current QB.....Peyton Manning (vet who played for another team) is better than our current QB.

Our current QB is better than Tavaris Jackson, and Caleb Hanie (vets on other nfl teams).....our current QB is better than several other QB's coming out of college.

See how that works?

There are better players than Von Miller who could have been had last season for the right price. Basically your argument, boiled down, is that potential and timing of the realization of that potential should have no bearing on personnel decisions made by the FO. The inane statements I've made about Von Miller are comparable to the inane statements you're making about the situation w/ TT.

rbackfactory80
03-15-2012, 06:45 PM
I haven't wrote him off.....I just think he's not as good as Peyton Manning. Can he be as good? It's possible, but highly unlikely....doesn't mean he can't win a title in NFL....but his chances of doing so with his passing skils is decreased.

I'm not advocating dumping Tebow....I'm advocating signing Manning because he's better than Tebow.

So you are now saying he could possibly be as good as Manning given the right coaching but you still threw a hissy fit all season when we were winning?

Any QB who has started a year and is believed to have ANY shot at being as good as Manning deserves to be the guy.

The simple question of who is a better QB is elementary. Everyone knows Manning is better than Tebow right now. My questions come from weighing the risk and the amount of money versus the reward.

For a guy like you, who seems to have somewhat of a grasp on football, how can you possibly deny the fact that Manning just isn't that good in big games? This is the biggest deal-breaker for me. Winning regular season games isn't gonna do it. Superbowl is out of the question man, a playoff run is not.

RaiderH8r
03-15-2012, 06:50 PM
If you recall in the most important game of the regular season, against Kansas City, the defense gave up 7 points, and the offense scored 3.... In must win game the defense came up big and the offense scored 3 points...yet somehow Tebow is credited with "taking us to the playoffs".

I remember thinking Kupe's ankle looked pretty f'd up. I think it impacted our OL play. McG agrees.

errand
03-15-2012, 06:53 PM
So you are now saying he could possibly be as good as Manning given the right coaching but you still threw a hissy fit all season when we were winning?

Any QB who has started a year and is believed to have ANY shot at being as good as Manning deserves to be the guy.

The simple question of who is a better QB is elementary. Everyone knows Manning is better than Tebow right now. My questions come from weighing the risk and the amount of money versus the reward.

For a guy like you, who seems to have somewhat of a grasp on football, how can you possibly deny the fact that Manning just isn't that good in big games? This is the biggest deal-breaker for me. Winning regular season games isn't gonna do it. Superbowl is out of the question man, a playoff run is not.

Sure Tebow could become a great QB....but then again he could be nothing more than a novelty act. I readily admit I don't know....I do know however that he's no Peyton Manning right now, and is many years away from becoming great if he even does.

As for making a few playoff runs....I still haven't found one NFL team that won the SB without making the playoffs first.

Turd_Ferguson
03-15-2012, 06:56 PM
I remember thinking Kupe's ankle looked pretty f'd up. I think it impacted our OL play. McG agrees.

Are you suggesting that Kupers injury caused the offense to only score 3 points?

houghtam
03-15-2012, 06:58 PM
In must win game the defense came up big and the offense scored 3 points...yet somehow Tebow is credited with "taking us to the playoffs".

Yeah?

And the defense gave up over 40 points in 5 separate games. Yet somehow it's credited as being "good".

errand
03-15-2012, 07:00 PM
Yeah?

And the defense gave up over 40 points in 5 separate games. Yet somehow it's credited as being "good".

Well in fairness to them, they were up against two offenses....the opponents, and ours.

rbackfactory80
03-15-2012, 07:05 PM
Well in fairness to them, they were up against two offenses....the opponents, and ours.

This is football Errand. The reason they call it a team sport is because all phases have to play well to win. You want to say the offense led to a defensive collapse and someone else will say the pressure from the defense failing led to the offense not being able to keep up.

Either way, this is exactly why the money we are considering giving to Manning should be spread around and spent on young quality players instead of giving a boatload of dough for a three year rental.

DenverBroncosJM
03-15-2012, 07:10 PM
OK... (snagged from the free agency thread):

Chaz Schilens WR NY Jets and Arizona in talks, visiting SF 49ers

Jericho Cotchery WR Jets want to re-sign him

Mario Manningham WR linked with SF49ers, Buffalo and Miami

Joel Dreesen TE visiting New Orleans

Anthony Gonzalez WR visiting New England

Jeremy Shockey TE wants to return to the NY Giants

Kevin Ogletree WR visiting NY Giants

Any of these guys would be more interested in the Broncos if we do sign Manning. (I left Eddie Royal and Brandon Lloyd off the list).

Any of those guys would be more interested if we paid them more

Turd_Ferguson
03-15-2012, 07:10 PM
Yeah?

And the defense gave up over 40 points in 5 separate games. Yet somehow it's credited as being "good".

Packers blew the defense out of the water. They did that to a lot of defenses around the league.

Lions completely OWNED Tebow Defense was on the field the entire game. Tebows worst game as a pro. Terrible game all the way around defense and offense.

Bills had a close game going until Tebow melted down in the 4th and turned the ball over repeatedly in bad field position. Wait maybe this was Tebows worst game as a pro....eh its a toss up i guess.

Pats blew us out of the water. Tebow and the punt returner gave Pats the ball repeatedly in bad field position. We cut the returner and kept Tebow.

Chris Kuper played in all these games, and the offense still didnt look too special.

Butterscotch Stallion
03-15-2012, 07:13 PM
Packers blew the defense out of the water. They did that to a lot of defenses around the league.

Lions completely OWNED Tebow Defense was on the field the entire game. Tebows worst game as a pro. Terrible game all the way around defense and offense.

Bills had a close game going until Tebow melted down in the 4th and turned the ball over repeatedly in bad field position. Wait maybe this was Tebows worst game as a pro....eh its a toss up i guess.

Pats blew us out of the water. Tebow and the punt returner gave Pats the ball repeatedly in bad field position. We cut the returner and kept Tebow.

Chris Kuper played in all these games, and the offense still didnt look too special.

strange...you are missing sone games there. like 7....

you wouldnt pick the worst games to make a point would you? oh wait, forgot, you are a fag.

Turd_Ferguson
03-15-2012, 07:26 PM
strange...you are missing sone games there. like 7....

you wouldnt pick the worst games to make a point would you? oh wait, forgot, you are a fag.

You ****ing moron. those are the ones the defense gave up 40+ in. Grown ups are talking so run along and rape some men.

houghtam
03-15-2012, 07:34 PM
Packers blew the defense out of the water. They did that to a lot of defenses around the league.

Lions completely OWNED Tebow Defense was on the field the entire game. Tebows worst game as a pro. Terrible game all the way around defense and offense.

Bills had a close game going until Tebow melted down in the 4th and turned the ball over repeatedly in bad field position. Wait maybe this was Tebows worst game as a pro....eh its a toss up i guess.

Pats blew us out of the water. Tebow and the punt returner gave Pats the ball repeatedly in bad field position. We cut the returner and kept Tebow.

Chris Kuper played in all these games, and the offense still didnt look too special.

So you're saying that there are excuses for giving up 40 points in a game?

I'm sorry, but I don't think you could interview any defensive coordinator at any level of football that would say that there are ANY excuses for giving up more than 40 points in a game...five separate times.

Turd_Ferguson
03-15-2012, 08:13 PM
So you're saying that there are excuses for giving up 40 points in a game?

I'm sorry, but I don't think you could interview any defensive coordinator at any level of football that would say that there are ANY excuses for giving up more than 40 points in a game...five separate times.

Outside of the Buffalo game no there is no excuse. The Buffalo game Tebow literally handed them points at the end.

The Super Bowl Champion New York Giants season schedule

28-14 Loss
28-16 Win
29-16 Win
31-27 Win
36-25 Loss
27-24 Win
20-17 Win
24-20 Win
27-20 Loss
17-10 Loss
49-24 Loss
38-35 Loss
37-34 Win
23-10 Loss
29-14 Win
31-14 Win

The SUPERBOWL CHAMPS allowed 400 points

The DENVER BRONCOS allowed 390..... Hmmm odd.. wonder what the difference was between the teams... Could it be the QB?? But hey the Denver defense isn't good enough to win a superbowl if they get Manning... They gave up 40 points to many times... Although the Giants gave up 40 only once they did give up 38, 34, and 36, and even managed to win one of those games.

ThirtyDegrees
03-15-2012, 08:24 PM
The DENVER BRONCOS allowed 390..... Hmmm odd.. wonder what the difference was between the teams... Could it be the QB??

YEAH IT COULD BE.

Although the QB that the Giants won their Super Bowl with wasn't a mercenary FA hire. They let him develop, even after his first year as a starter was worse than Tebow's. There were also quite a few Giants fans calling for his head because his stats weren't gaudy enough between rings.

houghtam
03-15-2012, 08:24 PM
Outside of the Buffalo game no there is no excuse. The Buffalo game Tebow literally handed them points at the end.

The Super Bowl Champion New York Giants season schedule

28-14 Loss
28-16 Win
29-16 Win
31-27 Win
36-25 Loss
27-24 Win
20-17 Win
24-20 Win
27-20 Loss
17-10 Loss
49-24 Loss
38-35 Loss
37-34 Win
23-10 Loss
29-14 Win
31-14 Win

The SUPERBOWL CHAMPS allowed 400 points

The DENVER BRONCOS allowed 390..... Hmmm odd.. wonder what the difference was between the teams... Could it be the QB?? But hey the Denver defense isn't good enough to win a superbowl if they get Manning... They gave up 40 points to many times... Although the Giants gave up 40 only once they did give up 38, 34, and 36, and even managed to win one of those games.

Okay, so you proved your point that...it's possible to win a Super Bowl with a terrible defense?

Please, announce to the entire message board that your strategy is to go into next season with the philosophy of "Hey, the 2011 New York Giants were the only team to EVER win a Super Bowl while allowing more than 375 points in the regular season. LET'S FOLLOW THEIR EXAMPLE."

Turd_Ferguson
03-15-2012, 08:32 PM
Okay, so you proved your point that...it's possible to win a Super Bowl with a terrible defense?

Please, announce to the entire message board that your strategy is to go into next season with the philosophy of "Hey, the 2011 New York Giants were the only team to EVER win a Super Bowl while allowing more than 375 points in the regular season. LET'S FOLLOW THEIR EXAMPLE."

Um lets see... They won the super bowl, then won another super bowl four years later.. Yes lets do follow their example.

Just to be clear I don't think they have a "terrible" defense. They have a defense that was set up to rush the passer which is how you beat teams like the Pats.. Its similar to the Broncos Defense. If the Broncos had a legit QB like Peyton Manning they could win a super bowl.. Thats my point

ThirtyDegrees
03-15-2012, 08:34 PM
Um lets see... They won the super bowl, then won another super bowl four years later.. Yes lets do follow their example.

So we should let our QB develop and surround him with weapons while drafting defensive talent?

Okay.

Turd_Ferguson
03-15-2012, 08:37 PM
So we should let our QB develop and surround him with weapons while drafting defensive talent?

Okay.

No they should go after Peyton Manning and win one right now with the weapons and defensive talent the team already have, instead of waiting for a guy that probably wont ever be at the level of either Manning. Oddly enough thats exactly what they are trying to do.

ThirtyDegrees
03-15-2012, 09:05 PM
No they should go after Peyton Manning and win one right now with the weapons and defensive talent the team already have, instead of waiting for a guy that probably wont ever be at the level of either Manning. Oddly enough thats exactly what they are trying to do.

That's not why the Giants won though, so maybe you should stop using flawed analogies. Thanks.

Turd_Ferguson
03-15-2012, 09:12 PM
That's not why the Giants won though, so maybe you should stop using flawed analogies. Thanks.

Eli wasn't why they won huh? Tell me who won the MVP of the superbowl?

houghtam
03-15-2012, 09:15 PM
Eli wasn't why they won huh? Tell me who won the MVP of the superbowl?

LOL I gues jhns was right, maybe you can't read.

He was saying your analogy was invalid because the Giants built a team around Eli after he was drafted, they didn't just pick him up off the street (after 4 surgeries and one missed season) and win the Super Bowl next year.

And it is invalid.

sinuous sausage
03-15-2012, 09:21 PM
Does it not give any of you pause that what Peyton is trying to do has never been done?

Turd_Ferguson
03-15-2012, 09:25 PM
LOL I gues jhns was right, maybe you can't read.

He was saying your analogy was invalid because the Giants built a team around Eli after he was drafted, they didn't just pick him up off the street (after 4 surgeries and one missed season) and win the Super Bowl next year.

And it is invalid.

Associating yourself with jhns huh? If that is what he was saying, then he should have said it, but what else would you expect from people that would rather have Tim Tebow as their QB than Peyton Manning.

ThirtyDegrees
03-15-2012, 09:37 PM
Associating yourself with jhns huh? If that is what he was saying, then he should have said it, but what else would you expect from people that would rather have Tim Tebow as their QB than Peyton Manning.

I did say it, maybe you should work on your reading.

houghtam
03-15-2012, 09:43 PM
Associating yourself with jhns huh? If that is what he was saying, then he should have said it, but what else would you expect from people that would rather have Tim Tebow as their QB than Peyton Manning.

It's all right there, pretty plainly.



You: We should follow the Giants example.
Him: What example, drafting a quarterback and building the team around him?
You: No, getting Peyton Manning now and trying to win a Super Bowl.
Him: That's not why the Giants won.
You: Eli Manning isn't why the Giants won?



What don't you understand?

Edit: Oh, I forgot to add...

Me: LOL

The Moops
03-16-2012, 07:21 PM
Well, at least, finally, they made Manning throw!

errand
03-16-2012, 09:31 PM
Well, at least, finally, they made Manning throw!

And I heard they had their medical staff along as well. Care to tell us how it went (if you know)?

TomServo
03-17-2012, 12:51 AM
dont get me wrong, i love tebow but... did anyone make TT throw some passes before they signed him up as qb?
(edit) knowing McD as we do now. most likely not.

BabyTO
03-17-2012, 01:10 AM
john is retarded, dont blame him. he will get fired soon enough. the things he says and the things he does rarely make sense or even match somehow. players cant trust him since he seems to be lying all the time when he says something, and he's proven that multiple times this season alone. he will be gone soon, i dont think the players respect him, i dont think the executives around the league respect him. he doesn't know what he's doing. if he brings in peyton and pays the guy 20 mil a year to underachieve we'll be getting rid of elways dumb ass soon enough. and im looking forward to that day because in the long term it will help this team.

TomServo
03-17-2012, 01:21 AM
john is retarded

and he only played in 1/3 of the superbowls in his time-lost three with some of the the worst talent in SB history, won two in a row with some talent around him. he built a car dealership and sold it for @ $100,000,000. bought an arena team and won a title @ lost in the title game the year before.
Yep he Shore is retarded for not believing in a QB that is lucky to hit the the ground with some of his passes

canadianbroncosfan
03-17-2012, 02:05 AM
My Open Letter to John Elway

Dear John --

You were a great player but you still have a lot to learn about managing an NFL franchise. You have already broken the first rule of being a great general manager, lying to players and to the great Broncos fans.

You told Tim Tebow that he would be the starter going into training camp. That promise lasted less than 2 months. I understand. All Tebow did was make the Broncos the talk of the entire country again, fill the stands with delirious fans, send merchandise sales through the roof, and make the team winners for the first time in 6 seasons. Tebow did this even after you told Kyle Orton that he was the man and then watched him drive the Broncos offense off I-25 into a ditch with a 1-4 record.

So you turned to the youngster. Of course, for good measure, before you handed Tebow the keys to the offense you got rid of the teamís best receiver for an awesome 5th round draft pick! Still, despite the criticism and lack of offensive weapons, Tebow went 8-5 as a starter including an eye-popping, 7-straight wins. It doesnít matter that Tebow ignited the franchise and got the whole team to rally around him. I understand. Tebow has that pesky, quirky throwing motion. The kind that somehow throttled the #1 defense in the playoffs for over 300 yards and the most jaw-dropping winning TD play of the year Ė and perhaps playoff history.

But you said that was OK because you promised to work with Tebow in the offseason to help him improve his game. You said you were looking forward to taking the old tie off and get on the field to show the kid how to play QB. You lied about that too. All because a 36-year-old future Hall of Famer became available.

Which, of course, brings us to your second mistake Ė lying to the great Broncos fans. You told Bronco nation that you were going to rebuild the Broncos from the ground up to win the Super Bowl. But thatís not true either. You see, when you dump your young star QB for a 36-year-old signal caller who hasnít played in a year because he was too busy undergoing 4 neck surgeries, youíre not really rebuilding a team. Youíre trying to recapture the past. Youíre also betting against the 93-year history of the NFL. The truth is, no 36-year-old QB (or older) in the history of the league has ever won a championship with a new team. Never. Johnny Unitas, Joe Namath, Joe Montana, Kurt Warner, none of them could do it. And only Unitas was older than Peyton Manning. The closest was 35-year-old Chargers QB Tobin Rote who led San Diego to the 1963 AFL title after spending 4 years in Canada. That was the year I was born, John. Iím almost 50! Sure Peyton Manning is no Tobin Rote, except Rote did win more championships.

That goes to the next interesting thing about Manning. As great as he is, the guy has a 9-10 playoff record. I would mention that even the soon-to-be discarded Tebow has a better record. But thatís not really fair. So how about Montanaís 16-7 playoff record, Unitasís 6-3. Heck, you were 14-8 and it still took you 15 years to win a Super Bowl playing with the same team. It took Manning 9 years to win one with Indy. What makes you think Manning can pull it off in 3 years when better clutch players fell short?

Seriously, 3 years is the window youíre looking at if Peyton signs with Denver. And letís be honest. Itís not like the Broncos are 1 QB away from winning it all. Thereís that defense that gave up 6 TD passes in one playoff game. That never could really stop the run all year. I know if Peyton signs thereís a chance you might be able to add a bunch of your Colts teammates. I guess if you sign them you could win the Super Bowl. Super Bowl XLI, that is. Of course, by waiting for Peyton youíre letting all the top defensive free agents sign with other teams. Thatís a lot to wager on.

OK, John. I get it. Youíre in charge. In your mind it doesnít really matter how your actions impact Bronco nation or the likes of Tebow. The heck with rebuilding a team. Letís win it all right now by gambling with a guy thatís going to somehow turn back time by doing something no one in NFL history has ever done. At least do the fans one thing before you go off on your crazy dream to win it all with an aging, not 100% healthy QB.
Maybe, just maybe, watch Peyton throw first!

Tom Mackie is the co-author of Floyd Littleís Tales from the Broncos Sideline. Check out his blog: TrueGridiron.com and follow him on twitter @TheMoops44.

I love how everyone is saying you're a Tebow fan and not a Broncos fan.

Maybe you need to post a link to your Sports Illustrated story about you and Floyd Little.

Clearly only here for the Tebow bandwagon /sarc

ThirtyDegrees
03-17-2012, 02:18 AM
and he only played in 1/3 of the superbowls in his time-lost three with some of the the worst talent in SB history, won two in a row with some talent around him. he built a car dealership and sold it for @ $100,000,000. bought an arena team and won a title @ lost in the title game the year before.
Yep he Shore is retarded for not believing in a QB that is lucky to hit the the ground with some of his passes

None of that qualifies him to be an NFL executive in charge of personnel. Michael Jordan is simultaneously the greatest player in NBA history and the worst NBA executive in history.

BabyTO
03-17-2012, 02:54 AM
and he only played in 1/3 of the superbowls in his time-lost three with some of the the worst talent in SB history, won two in a row with some talent around him. he built a car dealership and sold it for @ $100,000,000. bought an arena team and won a title @ lost in the title game the year before.
Yep he Shore is retarded for not believing in a QB that is lucky to hit the the ground with some of his passes
what does him playing QB have anything to do with as a front office member? you mean to tell me mike tyson could be a great president for a boxing association?

TomServo
03-17-2012, 02:54 AM
None of that qualifies him to be an NFL executive in charge of personnel. Michael Jordan is simultaneously the greatest player in NBA history and the worst NBA executive in history
so when did michael jordan build a 100$ mil business or build a championship team? (AFL)?

Durango
03-17-2012, 03:28 AM
so when did michael jordan build a 100$ mil business or build a championship team? (AFL)?

Touche'

Elway is trying to win, and win now. Whether or not the Broncos land Manning, Elway win do whatever it takes to get Denver back in the hunt. I love this guy, as a player of course, but now as the driving force to elevate the Broncos to contender status as quickly as possible.

Meck77
03-17-2012, 03:44 AM
what does him playing QB have anything to do with as a front office member? you mean to tell me mike tyson could be a great president for a boxing association?

Would you be so kind as to post your resume. Just curious what makes you an expert on evaluating HOF QBs, the NFL, and management of billion dollar organizations.

Thanks in advance.

TomServo
03-17-2012, 04:18 AM
and not to take anything away from michael jordan but Elway actually could play baseball. i mean play baseball really well.

errand
03-17-2012, 07:16 AM
I don't understand all the Elway hatred on here.....

Tebowners are so upset he's pursuing a legend in Manning....

Forgive Elway for being coach Norman Dale going after Jimmy Chitwood instead of standing pat with Ollie....

CEH
03-17-2012, 07:25 AM
Manning may be the smartest football guy in the game today. The fact that he is even talking with Elway and hasn't dimissed Denver shows me Denver is heading in the right direction. What did Manning do while at Dove Valley. Watch film. Gotta believe he liked what he saw otherwise he would have dismissed Den just like ARI and MIA.

IMO, Elway will be more Ozzie Newsome/Jerry West than Micheal Jordan

BabyTO
03-17-2012, 07:27 AM
Would you be so kind as to post your resume. Just curious what makes you an expert on evaluating HOF QBs, the NFL, and management of billion dollar organizations.

Thanks in advance.
i know more about our players than elway does. in fact i know more players by their names than he does. and i wasnt dumb enough to say lets start orton over tebow. but hey, its elway, he's the greatest human being in the history of the world. we wouldnt exist if it wasnt for elway

errand
03-17-2012, 07:51 AM
i know more about our players than elway does. in fact i know more players by their names than he does. and i wasnt dumb enough to say lets start orton over tebow. but hey, its elway, he's the greatest human being in the history of the world. we wouldnt exist if it wasnt for elway

I'm not saying you're stupid.....but, wouldn't you have to be?

RaiderH8r
03-17-2012, 09:46 AM
Manning may be the smartest football guy in the game today. The fact that he is even talking with Elway and hasn't dimissed Denver shows me Denver is heading in the right direction. What did Manning do while at Dove Valley. Watch film. Gotta believe he liked what he saw otherwise he would have dismissed Den just like ARI and MIA.

IMO, Elway will be more Ozzie Newsome/Jerry West than Micheal Jordan

Denver is around because we have the biggest stack of chips and any suitors see that and Manning knows there is value having us simply in play. TN and SF know that they can't low ball because we have the big stack a phone call away. EFX need to recognize the situation and stop being used like a wank rag. They should have done their due diligence, made the offer and when it became clear our cap space is just a tool for Manning to drive his price up we should have bailed and taken some of his price leverage with us. Now they are so far down the rabbit hole that the end seems closer than the beginning and just a little more will get them there when the fact is EFX have bee chumped, they neglected the rest of FA, they are never going to build the right team around Tebow because they are duplicitous cockbags wringing fans for cash a la the Bidwells. Trophies are nice but cash is King.

CEH
03-17-2012, 11:39 AM
Denver is around because we have the biggest stack of chips and any suitors see that and Manning knows there is value having us simply in play. TN and SF know that they can't low ball because we have the big stack a phone call away. EFX need to recognize the situation and stop being used like a wank rag. They should have done their due diligence, made the offer and when it became clear our cap space is just a tool for Manning to drive his price up we should have bailed and taken some of his price leverage with us. Now they are so far down the rabbit hole that the end seems closer than the beginning and just a little more will get them there when the fact is EFX have bee chumped, they neglected the rest of FA, they are never going to build the right team around Tebow because they are duplicitous cockbags wringing fans for cash a la the Bidwells. Trophies are nice but cash is King.

So explain Sea and KC who were rebuffed from jumpstreet. If this was about driving up the price Microsoft money far outweights everything but Walmart money and the more teams bidding the higher the price. Mannings made $117 MM over his career its not going to be about an extra $5 MM here or there

Like I said Manning likes Elway, repsects him and has not yet said no

RaiderH8r
03-17-2012, 11:41 AM
So explain Sea and KC who were rebuffed from jumpstreet. If this was about driving up the price Microsoft money far outweights everything but Walmart money and the more teams bidding the higher the price. Mannings made $117 MM over his career its not going to be about an extra $5 MM here or there

Like I said Manning likes Elway, repsects him and has not yet said no

He doesn't need every sucker on the line, just one big one. I give you EFX.

CEH
03-17-2012, 11:49 AM
He doesn't need every sucker on the line, just one big one. I give you EFX.

The biggest ones were SEA and WASH who despartarely wanted in. You have no counter for this. This is where your theory falls apart. It's not about money. Yes all the remaining teams know the financial framework and Manning is even putting in a injury clause. I'm sure SEA sight unseen would give Manning everything and more without requiring an injury clause.

Blueflame
03-17-2012, 11:51 AM
I don't understand all the Elway hatred on here.....

Tebowners are so upset he's pursuing a legend in Manning....

Forgive Elway for being coach Norman Dale going after Jimmy Chitwood instead of standing pat with Ollie....

In truth, Errand, there are some here who started blasting Elway the nanosecond that he joined the front office. It was his personal fault (to them) that Tebow wasn't instantly anointed as starter (nevermind the concept of earning the job; supposedly he was different and shouldn't have to earn it like all other starting QBs do). It's ironic that they whine that "Elway has never given Tebow a chance".... while they've never given Elway one either.

RaiderH8r
03-17-2012, 11:52 AM
In truth, Errand, there are some here who started blasting Elway the nanosecond that he joined the front office. It was his personal fault (to them) that Tebow wasn't instantly anointed as starter (nevermind the concept of earning the job; supposedly he was different and shouldn't have to earn it like all other starting QBs do). It's ironic that they whine that "Elway has never given Tebow a chance".... while they've never given Elway one either.

I've given Elway his rope and he's hung himself with it. Continuing to be jerked around only confirms he has no grasp on how to close a deal.

Furthermore, I expect more from FO guys, they have been around longer, are more mature (supposedly), and have seen this before. They are the adults. When the 20 something's behave and handle themselves better than the 60 something's that speaks volumes. Am I surprised when a player acts like a 24 year old? No. Am I concerned when executives act like 24 yr olds? Absolutely. What's so hard to figure out?

The fact that TT clowned their "talent assessment" only speaks to the fact that they don't really know wtf they are doing. The fact that Xanders still has a job is proof of that.

Sign Manning or don't but don't expect me to believe for a nano second that QB is the ONLY area we can improve through FA.

Rohirrim
03-17-2012, 11:54 AM
I don't understand all the Elway hatred on here.....

Tebowners are so upset he's pursuing a legend in Manning....

Forgive Elway for being coach Norman Dale going after Jimmy Chitwood instead of standing pat with Ollie....

Because, in their minds, Tebow is already in the HOF.

RaiderH8r
03-17-2012, 12:00 PM
Because, in their minds, Tebow is already in the HOF.

You're not lumping me in with the TT is god crowd. I am right about how this FO is bad for the growth of the club. They're winging it and learning as they go. Good enough for labor, bad dea for management.

Blueflame
03-17-2012, 12:03 PM
I've given Elway his rope and he's hung himself with it. Continuing to be jerked around only confirms he has no grasp on how to close a deal.

Furthermore, I expect more from FO guys, they have been around longer, are more mature (supposedly), and have seen this before. They are the adults. When the 20 something's behave and handle themselves better than the 60 something's that speaks volumes. Am I surprised when a player acts like a 24 year old? No. Am I concerned when executives act like 24 yr olds? Absolutely. What's so hard to figure out?

The fact that TT clowned their "talent assessment" only speaks to the fact that they don't really know wtf they are doing. The fact that Xanders still has a job is proof of that.

Sign Manning or don't but don't expect me to believe for a nano second that QB is the ONLY area we can improve through FA.

It's Manning; not Elway... who is in control of the timetable for the decision where he's going to play next year. I could understand the vitriol aimed at Elway if the choice were in his hands, but this is beyond his control.

Yeah, it's frustrating to have to "spin our wheels" waiting... but giving up now would be like "folding" in a Texas hold-em game while holding a full house.... just 'cause the other players were taking too long to make their plays. Stay in the game and we still have a chance to win; fold and we automatically lose. And Manning is worth waiting a few more days for.

BabyTO
03-17-2012, 12:21 PM
I'm not saying you're stupid.....but, wouldn't you have to be?
does every elway fanatic have down syndrome? :ouwknow:

RaiderH8r
03-17-2012, 12:23 PM
It's Manning; not Elway... who is in control of the timetable for the decision where he's going to play next year. I could understand the vitriol aimed at Elway if the choice were in his hands, but this is beyond his control.

Yeah, it's frustrating to have to "spin our wheels" waiting... but giving up now would be like "folding" in a Texas hold-em game while holding a full house.... just 'cause the other players were taking too long to make their plays. Stay in the game and we still have a chance to win; fold and we automatically lose. And Manning is worth waiting a few more days for.

That's the problem. Who is running this team? Peyton or John? Right now our offseason is being dictated by Peyton. That doesn't bother anyone?

They already lifted their skirts and showed they have no nut so yeah, might as well see this to its conclusion since it is clear our FO is either getting Manning and scrambling to fill up the O roster (Wallace) or they're going to whiff and stand pat or let talent walk and field a weaker team in 2012. They're a ballsy bunch our guys.

This should have been done on Tuesday, fish or cut bait.

BroncoBeavis
03-17-2012, 12:30 PM
In truth, Errand, there are some here who started blasting Elway the nanosecond that he joined the front office. It was his personal fault (to them) that Tebow wasn't instantly anointed as starter (nevermind the concept of earning the job; supposedly he was different and shouldn't have to earn it like all other starting QBs do). It's ironic that they whine that "Elway has never given Tebow a chance".... while they've never given Elway one either.

I was firmly in the 'give Elway the benefit of the doubt' crowd until this offseason. And Elway's had more games as Denver's VP then Tebow's had as an NFL starter. When it comes to team management, I've yet to see John make all the NFL throws.

BroncoBeavis
03-17-2012, 12:32 PM
That's the problem. Who is running this team? Peyton or John? Right now our offseason is being dictated by Peyton. That doesn't bother anyone?

They already lifted their skirts and showed they have no nut so yeah, might as well see this to its conclusion since it is clear our FO is either getting Manning and scrambling to fill up the O roster (Wallace) or they're going to whiff and stand pat or let talent walk and field a weaker team in 2012. They're a ballsy bunch our guys.

This should have been done on Tuesday, fish or cut bait.

But Johnny just can't hep it, H8r. Peyton has a fear of commitment, but John still loves him!

Circle Orange
03-17-2012, 12:53 PM
Dear John,

Please stop pretending you're happy about this situation. Go get your knee fixed and start working out. You can start for the Broncos again, teach Tim the ropes, and save the team money under the cap. We'll pick up precious free agents and go 12-4. WIN!

Now excuse me. It's Saturday, and I'm making refreshments...Sangria and Gin with prunes. ;D

Circle Orange
03-17-2012, 12:57 PM
Manning may be the smartest football guy in the game today. The fact that he is even talking with Elway and hasn't dimissed Denver shows me Denver is heading in the right direction. What did Manning do while at Dove Valley. Watch film. Gotta believe he liked what he saw otherwise he would have dismissed Den just like ARI and MIA.

IMO, Elway will be more Ozzie Newsome/Jerry West than Micheal Jordan

A large forehead doth not intelligence prove...I'm convined Manning's "profile" perpetuates the media hype he's so brilliant. He didn't even score highest on the qb wonderlic anyway.

Shoot, dude's been running the same fragging system for his whole career. If he isn't good at it by now he IS dumb.

Tombstone RJ
03-17-2012, 12:58 PM
lulz

Blueflame
03-17-2012, 01:11 PM
That's the problem. Who is running this team? Peyton or John? Right now our offseason is being dictated by Peyton. That doesn't bother anyone?

They already lifted their skirts and showed they have no nut so yeah, might as well see this to its conclusion since it is clear our FO is either getting Manning and scrambling to fill up the O roster (Wallace) or they're going to whiff and stand pat or let talent walk and field a weaker team in 2012. They're a ballsy bunch our guys.

This should have been done on Tuesday, fish or cut bait.

Yeah, Peyton should have made his mind up sooner... but this is a big decision in his life and he has a family that will be impacted by the move whether it's to Nashville or to Denver or to San Francisco. Can't say I blame him... he has the value/clout to take his time and mull over his options for as long as he chooses to take.

Nonetheless, it would suck ass to even possibly snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory solely because of impatience. I'm glad the front office is in position (as opposed to Arizona's situation where they had a firm deadline) to wait it out and see what happens. We have a good hand with that full house... sure someone else "might" have four of a kind, but you don't fold with a full house.