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View Full Version : Irsay and the draft picks.


bendog
03-12-2012, 12:35 PM
He could have had Manning and three ones and a two. Ouch.

Lestat
03-12-2012, 01:51 PM
not an option. they have to tear that team down and rebuild now. last year showed just how bad a job polian did building around manning.

TheReverend
03-12-2012, 01:56 PM
not an option. they have to tear that team down and rebuild now. last year showed just how bad a job polian did building around manning.

3 1sts and a 2nd go a long way towards rebuilding...

BroncoMan4ever
03-12-2012, 02:08 PM
not an option. they have to tear that team down and rebuild now. last year showed just how bad a job polian did building around manning.

do you realize what could be done with 3 1sts and a 2nd? and also when you factor in the trade would have been for Luck who is vastly superior to RGIII you can probably infer the haul would have been more than what the Rams got. if used wisely 3 1st round picks and a 2nd can get you a minimum of 4 impact players. also when you consider that Washington will be playing a rookie at QB and won't be great, the picks for the 2013 an 2014 draft will be quite high. meaning if Irsay wanted he could get Landry Jones or Barkley in the draft next year, and that pick can learn from Peyton for a year or 2.

also factoring possible trades of picks and dropping down in the 1st round picking up additional picks, you could conceivably completely revamp a team with what Washington gave up.

Lestat
03-12-2012, 02:08 PM
you can't rebuild with Peyton Manning still there and eating up money on the cap.
Luck was always going to be the #1 pick and they'll now throw him into the fire.
they were not going to deal the pick anyways so that haul is irrelevant to the Colts.
3 1sts and a 2nd go a long way towards rebuilding...

TheReverend
03-12-2012, 02:09 PM
you can't rebuild with Peyton Manning still there and eating up money on the cap.
Luck was always going to be the #1 pick and they'll now throw him into the fire.
they were not going to deal the pick anyways so that haul is irrelevant to the Colts.

I beg to differ... 1st rounders arent nearly as expensive as they used to be.

BroncoInferno
03-12-2012, 02:10 PM
If Luck is really the best QB to enter the draft since Manning, as many contend, then I wouldn't take five 1st rounders for him. An elite QB gives you a chance to win the Super Bowl every year.

Lestat
03-12-2012, 02:12 PM
as i said before, you can't rebuild with Manning still there. he's good enough to get them 9 wins.
you'll have Luck, likely at least 2-3 top 10 selections in the next 2-3 years while you revamp the franchise and create more cap space.

if you keep Manning then he eats up a ton of cap, you get those picks from Washington and then a bit more but now you're adding say a Justin Blackmon or Trent Richardson. you have to keep all those guys you just released and now are right back to where you were before.

this franchise was poorly ran the past few seasons in terms of contract structure and lack of impact draft picks.
do you realize what could be done with 3 1sts and a 2nd? and also when you factor in the trade would have been for Luck who is vastly superior to RGIII you can probably infer the haul would have been more than what the Rams got. if used wisely 3 1st round picks and a 2nd can get you a minimum of 4 impact players. also when you consider that Washington will be playing a rookie at QB and won't be great, the picks for the 2013 an 2014 draft will be quite high. meaning if Irsay wanted he could get Landry Jones or Barkley in the draft next year, and that pick can learn from Peyton for a year or 2.

also factoring possible trades of picks and dropping down in the 1st round picking up additional picks, you could conceivably completely revamp a team with what Washington gave up.

Lestat
03-12-2012, 02:16 PM
i wasn't talking about the expense of the draft picks. i said Manning would be eating up cap space. 18 mil per season is a big chunk and they would have had very little flexibility with the cap and couldn't bring in many FA's to supplement the roster needs.

you had no legit back up QB,your RB depth is horrendous, you OL is sketchy, your defense as a whole is undersized to the extreme and your WR depth is all FA's.
you add those firsts to that and you'll be right back in near cap hell once those guys come up for extensions.
I beg to differ... 1st rounders arent nearly as expensive as they used to be.

TheReverend
03-12-2012, 02:20 PM
i wasn't talking about the expense of the draft picks. i said Manning would be eating up cap space. 18 mil per season is a big chunk and they would have had very little flexibility with the cap and couldn't bring in many FA's to supplement the roster needs.

you had no legit back up QB,your RB depth is horrendous, you OL is sketchy, your defense as a whole is undersized to the extreme and your WR depth is all FA's.
you add those firsts to that and you'll be right back in near cap hell once those guys come up for extensions.

And while he's eating up some cap space, you're filling the roster with young cheap talent and more than counter-balancing it.

bendog
03-12-2012, 02:22 PM
I'm not sure you win 9 games with Manning but without all the others they let go. It's just that now they rebuild with Luck and little else, or they could have put Manning out there for a few years and had the extra picks along with their own.

I didn't mean this as a yes/no kind of quiz. I think Irsay did it this way in part because he didn't want Manning finishing his career with a team that will struggle. But damn he risks going down like his drunken father unless Luck is probowl caliber for a lot of years.

Lestat
03-12-2012, 02:40 PM
no, you're allowing him to eat up space, you'll still win games and have 2 middling first round picks instead of top tier picks. this just continues the talent issues and once Manning retires you'll be right in the same situation as now without Andrew Luck staring you in the face.

your way just prolongs the inevitable and worsens the Colts long term. they're better in the short term but Luck is a better gamble because you can lose with him while saying you're rebuilding, and gain more guys who can team up to be your new Manning-Wayne-James combo.
And while he's eating up some cap space, you're filling the roster with young cheap talent and more than counter-balancing it.

TheReverend
03-12-2012, 02:41 PM
no, you're allowing him to eat up space, you'll still win games and have 2 middling first round picks instead of top tier picks. this just continues the talent issues and once Manning retires you'll be right in the same situation as now without Andrew Luck staring you in the face.

your way just prolongs the inevitable and worsens the Colts long term. they're better in the short term but Luck is a better gamble because you can lose with him while saying you're rebuilding, and gain more guys who can team up to be your new Manning-Wayne-James combo.

How many games you win only effects YOUR draft choices, fyi, not what you received in an epic and unprecedented haul :)

Lestat
03-12-2012, 02:47 PM
that's true but the Skins are a competent QB away from 9-7 or better in the subsequent seasons of forking over their draft picks.
if Manning is still on the Colts(you likely don't get all the releases they made) then you likely have them at least 9-7 for the remainder of Manning's career.
the skins with Luck or RGIII is likely at least 9-7 themselves during the time of those picks.

so you end up with middling picks or worse even though you have two firsts. now you can use those two to move up and get one higher pick. but with a team like the Colts you need to use both unless a can't miss guy comes out.
How many games you win only effects YOUR draft choices, fyi, not what you received in an epic and unprecedented haul :)

UberBroncoMan
03-12-2012, 03:01 PM
He could have had Manning and three ones and a two. Ouch.

Probably more than that. They could have traded the pick after Washington took the pick from St. Louis.

DENVERDUI55
03-12-2012, 03:04 PM
1 st rd picks are a little overrated anyways. If giffin is real deal he will be worth it. Seems like more busts than studs come out of rd 1 anyways.

chrisp
03-12-2012, 03:38 PM
Sorry for being dim, but can someone explain to me how Irsay was going to get all these picks? I assume I must have missed something becuase....

Trade Manning? You have to convince the other teams that you ARE going to eat that 28mil if you don't trade him - otherwise you have no bargaining power. Good luck with that.

Trade the #1 pick? Teams are always wanting to do that, and rarely able to achieve it. Maybe its a little easier now we have the rookie wage scale but still far from a slam-dunk.

Personally I like what Irsay has done here (which is not the same as saying I like Irsay...). The Manning circus moves on and they get to start rebuilding the team around Luck. They have a chance to get their focus back. Of course they will probably suck for a few years but that was the case when they originally got manning in the first place....

Having said all that, I think the NFL and fate is too cruel to make life that easy for the Colts. Everything says that Luck's a can't miss prospect, and I'm not saying I disagree with the assessment, but we all know there's no such thing as a can't mis prospect at QB in the NFL....we'll see...

chrisp
03-12-2012, 03:43 PM
Trade the #1 pick? Teams are always wanting to do that, and rarely able to achieve it. Maybe its a little easier now we have the rookie wage scale but still far from a slam-dunk.

Doh! Forgot about the RGIII trade...oh well, back to lurking.....

I suppose Irsay just thought that if he had to lose Manning he wanted Luck to replace him. Tough call for him to make as well, so hard to be too hard-nosed about it...

spdirty
03-12-2012, 04:22 PM
It really is stupid. They really should have kept Manning and traded the pick and got a haul for it. Hold off on the rebuild until Peyton is done. Then the fanbase is happy, Peyton is happy, everyone out there is happy. Now you better hope Luck can overcome the bull**** and get them going from the ground up, because that place is an absolute boneyard right now. And its what they deserve. **** em.

robbieopperude
03-12-2012, 05:19 PM
Just a note that the Rams didn't get three additional 1's. They swapped with the Skins and received 2 additional 1's and a 2.

The Colts might have gotten 3 1's and a 2 but that trade would have had to come from Cleveland and one of the pose picks would have been in the 20's.

robbieopperude
03-12-2012, 05:29 PM
For what is worth.
Keep Manning and Dallas Clark
@ 4 they go Clairborne at DB from Clev
@ 22 they go D.Still DT from Clev
@ 34 they go L.Miller RB
@ 37 they go Z.Brown OLB from Clev

Now in 2013 they go
@ 8 they go K.Allen WR from Clev
@ 28 they go M.Elam S

That is alot of new young talent to go with P.Manning for year 2 of his contract. Not to mention the vets who will sign one year deals to try and get a ring and the likely additional 1st round pick the following year from Clev that would still be in the top 15.