Love $5 a Gallon for Gas? Here's Who's Fleecing You

[ghwk]

So despite what Ultimate Bobo would lead you to believe about Obama and the price of gas the truth lies with Wall Street and Big Oil:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/28/opinion/sanders-gas-speculation/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

This should wash away any of that free market economy bulls**t being espoused by conservatives as determining the price or that it is somehow Obama's fault or that somehow Newt will drill us back to 2.50 a gallon.

This is a perfect example of why the term "free market" should be replaced with the term "false market" as there is no longer any correlation as to what the cost is to produce the product and the price it shows up at in the marketplace. Enron perfected it and it applies to health care as well.

[Spider]

tried to tell everyone ........

[Spider]

Hobo is an Idiot , I dont expect him to understand anything about the patch ....... I cant even begin to remember how many dumbasses I tried to tell whats what down here that was believing what Bush jr was pushing that they was full of shiat ......
I repeat no such thing as peak oil , we don have a surplus Problem , and wed have plenty of refineries .......
I wish these jack assed instant google ****ing experts that post down here would understand how ****ing stupid they are and shut their pie holes

[Pony Boy]

Obama's in charge so I'm holding his feet to the fire ......... fix this mess ....shiat or get off the pot.

[El Minion]

The only welfare RNC supports.

Big oil companies have been gouging consumers for years. They have made almost $1 trillion in profits over the past decade, in part thanks to ridiculous federal subsidies and tax loopholes. I have proposed legislation to end those pointless giveaways to some of the biggest and most profitable corporations in the history of the world.

[Tombstone RJ]

So despite what Ultimate Bobo would lead you to believe about Obama and the price of gas the truth lies with Wall Street and Big Oil:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/28/opinion/sanders-gas-speculation/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

This should wash away any of that free market economy bulls**t being espoused by conservatives as determining the price or that it is somehow Obama's fault or that somehow Newt will drill us back to 2.50 a gallon.

This is a perfect example of why the term "free market" should be replaced with the term "false market" as there is no longer any correlation as to what the cost is to produce the product and the price it shows up at in the marketplace. Enron perfected it and it applies to health care as well.

yes, oil futures commodity speculation absolutely is inflating the price of oil. This has been acknowledged by everyone since day 1 of the BO administration.

So I ask--what is BO doing about this?

So I ask--what has BO done about the criminals behind TARP?

BO came into power with "Hope and change" and he's done nothing to help stop the criminals on Wall Street from doing the same exact same crap they did during the Bush administration. He has not brought anyone to justice who was directly responsible for the crash in 2008. He has not instituted any laws protecting the consumer against oil speculation by Wall Street traders who are simply inflating the price of oil in order to make a quick profit.

BO should have been stopping this type of crap from day 1. He should have been breaking up the health insurance cartels.

I'm sorry, but he's tied in with these people. He'll wax poetic about "justice for the middle class" but his actions in no way help the middle class.

[Spider]

LMAO first you guys call him a socialist , you scream free markets ..... Now ? :rofl: I would hate to be confused as you bastards .......

[Spider]

are you 2 bozos admitting free markets suck ?

[Tombstone RJ]

are you 2 bozos admitting free markets suck ?

Nope, just asking for oil speculation to be confined to only those traders who actually use the oil, not by some trader who is trying to manipulate the commodity to make a quick buck.

Also, how is breaking up health insurance cartels going against the free market?

[chadta]

are you 2 bozos admitting free markets suck ?

we dont have a free market

we have privatized the profits and socialized the losses, they hae nothing to fear about betting other peoples money, if they are wrong they know they get bailed out again, so who cares

[Spider]

Nope, just asking for oil speculation to be confined to only those traders who actually use the oil, not by some trader who is trying to manipulate the commodity to make a quick buck.

Also, how is breaking up health insurance cartels going against the free market?

any intervention by government into the market isnt free market , so by your own admission Free market doesnt work

[Spider]

we dont have a free market

we have privatized the profits and socialized the losses, they hae nothing to fear about betting other peoples money, if they are wrong they know they get bailed out again, so who cares

It doesnt matter , you Canadians like to think your Independent from opec ....... But your not , you are no more free from Opec then Brazil , Russia or the USA .....

[chadta]

It doesnt matter , you Canadians like to think your Independent from opec ....... But your not , you are no more free from Opec then Brazil , Russia or the USA .....

not at all, we are worse, not only do we pay fair market prices, but we pay the we let the companies all merge and have no competition surcharge.

Ive said it before, you guys in the states use the spot prices as the ceiling for prices, up here its the floor, and dont even get me started on the taxes.

$5 gallon gas works out to about $1.30 per liter, i havent seen anything less than $1.20 in over a year. so while not quite 5 bucks, its damn close, thank god for the company truck.

We should be tho, we need an americas opec, pull out of the middle east, let them do what the hell they want over there, and just worry about us people on this side of the planet, i think we have enough that we could do it, split the world into 2 oil zones.

[Garcia Bronco]

I didn't hold Bush to the cost of gas, nor will I blame Obama.

[El Minion]

are you 2 bozos admitting free markets suck ?

The invisible hand of the free market at your local gas station.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_i2p6NGYtWoc/TUMNlz-6B4I/AAAAAAAAAaU/996L59CJXSU/s200/pickpocket12112006.jpg

[Odysseus]

So despite what Ultimate Bobo would lead you to believe about Obama and the price of gas the truth lies with Wall Street and Big Oil:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/28/opinion/sanders-gas-speculation/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

This should wash away any of that free market economy bulls**t being espoused by conservatives as determining the price or that it is somehow Obama's fault or that somehow Newt will drill us back to 2.50 a gallon.

This is a perfect example of why the term "free market" should be replaced with the term "false market" as there is no longer any correlation as to what the cost is to produce the product and the price it shows up at in the marketplace. Enron perfected it and it applies to health care as well.

Great post.

There is no free market. You have various cartels vying for monopolistic control of resources but very little free market.

How can you have free market if the invisible hand is visibly pimp slapping the average working man?

Average people who believe in the free markets are nothing more than stooges waiting to be played. They blame liberals for their own lack of understanding of issues that are outside their comprehension.

The rich who believe in free markets will share with the glorious and nostalgic past of free market. They will share with you stories of free market adventures and how it really used to work but it is a shell game.

[Spider]

not at all, we are worse, not only do we pay fair market prices, but we pay the we let the companies all merge and have no competition surcharge.

Ive said it before, you guys in the states use the spot prices as the ceiling for prices, up here its the floor, and dont even get me started on the taxes.

$5 gallon gas works out to about $1.30 per liter, i havent seen anything less than $1.20 in over a year. so while not quite 5 bucks, its damn close, thank god for the company truck.

We should be tho, we need an americas opec, pull out of the middle east, let them do what the hell they want over there, and just worry about us people on this side of the planet, i think we have enough that we could do it, split the world into 2 oil zones.

the entire western hemisphere from Canada on down to Brazil ;)

[The Lone Bolt]

GM-backed Envia claims huge advance in cheaper, better batteries for 300-mile EVs

Looking for signs that the automotive landscape may be changing sooner than most people realize? Here's one. Envia Systems, a start-up battery company that counts General Motors as a significant investor, has announced it has produced a cell with an energy density of 400 watt-hours per kilogram (Wh/kg). It also claims they will be priced somewhere in the $125 per kilowatt-hour neighborhood. Put another way, a $20,000 car using these cells could travel 300 miles on a charge. Even if that scenario sounds a bit optimistic, color us impressed. GM must be pleased, too, since when it made its $7-million investment is also concluded a separate licensing deal to use Envia's new technology in future vehicles.

To contrast Envia's numbers with batteries in electric vehicles available today, most lithium cells fall between 100-150 Wh/kg and easily cost double to triple Envia's projected price. Only Tesla Motors – using cells from Panasonic – even comes close to these figures. Its Model S batteries should weigh in at around 240 Wh/kg and, price-wise, Tesla CEO Elon Musk is recently on record as saying he expects to see cost drop below $200 per Wh in the near future.

http://green.autoblog.com/2012/02/27/gm-backed-envia-claims-huge-advance-in-cheaper-better-batteries/

[cutthemdown]

It's not Obamas fault. We have to pressure Iran, this stuff has to be done. Repubs using issues like this makes me not care if they lose. Sure Obama was an idiot to say higher gas prices could be good etc etc, i get it. I can think Obama is lame and hate republicans all at the same time now. Gas prices mostly too high only in CA lol. When i hear people complain the are paying 3.50 i laugh. CA has so many taxes we would love 3.50 a gallon

[cutthemdown]

As long as i can charge my car with a regular plug like Tesla i am in. But installing some of those car chargers seems like a drag. Especially if you move a lot. Also how will they tax us once people arent buying gas. So many states make there money that way? will it make all electricity go up? Also the battery holds more energy i get that, but it still takes burning something somewhere to make that electricity. The batter only stores it obviously. So it would take 15 yrs or so to know. Until these cars have been on the road for awhile. For instance the batteries could end up not lasting as long as they say, adding to the cars carbon footprint when it has to load in a new battery etc etc.

[chadta]

the entire western hemisphere from Canada on down to Brazil ;)

does anybody really live below that anyhow ?

[alkemical]

As long as i can charge my car with a regular plug like Tesla i am in. But installing some of those car chargers seems like a drag. Especially if you move a lot. Also how will they tax us once people arent buying gas. So many states make there money that way? will it make all electricity go up? Also the battery holds more energy i get that, but it still takes burning something somewhere to make that electricity. The batter only stores it obviously. So it would take 15 yrs or so to know. Until these cars have been on the road for awhile. For instance the batteries could end up not lasting as long as they say, adding to the cars carbon footprint when it has to load in a new battery etc etc.

These are all good questions.

[Odysseus]

we dont have a free market

we have privatized the profits and socialized the losses, they hae nothing to fear about betting other peoples money, if they are wrong they know they get bailed out again, so who cares

This is why the people at the top are screaming no to socialism because they want that money for the "free" market.

I love the idea of electric cars but if you cannot plug it in "everywhere" I don't see it as a value.

[ant1999e]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/73138.html

Can Steven Chu have a do-over?

President Barack Obama’s Energy secretary unwittingly created a durable GOP talking point in September 2008 when he talked to The Wall Street Journal about the benefits of having gasoline prices rise over 15 years to encourage energy efficiency.

“Somehow,” Chu said, “we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe.”

Chu, a Nobel-winning physicist and director of the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, was not yet a member of the not-yet-in-existence Obama administration. But Republican politicians and conservative pundits have seized on his words as evidence that the White House is deliberately driving gasoline prices higher — ensuring that Chu’s remarks are the energy policy sound bite that will not die.

Newt Gingrich was the latest to jump on the bandwagon, telling CBS’s “This Morning” on Tuesday that Obama’s “outrageously anti-American” energy policy is aimed at increasing the price at the pump.

“Chu, his Energy secretary, said in 2008 he wanted gasoline prices to get to the European level, which is $9 or $10 a gallon,” Gingrich said.

A column Tuesday on Andrew Breitbart’s website Big Government also dredged up the 2008 quote, sardonically observing that “Mr. Chu’s energy plans appear to be working.”

Similar themes came last week from Investors Business Daily, which cited Chu’s remarks as evidence that Obama is “secretly cheering” for price spikes, and from Denver Post columnist Vincent Carroll, who accused Obama and Chu of pursuing a “castor oil theory” of economic growth.

The popularity of Chu’s now-infamous quotation tends to track the rise and fall of gas prices: It enjoyed a huge surge of attention last spring and summer before largely vanishing from view in the fall, leading up to this month’s renaissance, according to the LexisNexis database.

Never mind that some energy experts say Chu had it exactly right, and that higher fuel prices would encourage consumers to buy more efficient vehicles, discourage suburban sprawl, make renewables more competitive and reduce U.S. reliance on imported oil. Not even Chu’s department is making that argument these days.

[The Lone Bolt]

This is why the people at the top are screaming no to socialism because they want that money for the "free" market.

I love the idea of electric cars but if you cannot plug it in "everywhere" I don't see it as a value.

Just about every building in America has electricity. Nissan is installing hundreds of 240 volt charging stations this year. The Chevy Volt can charge at home overnight and uses a range extending ICE to keep it going for over 300 miles when the battery drops below a certain level of charge. Better Place has started a battery-swapping system, being piloted in Japan and Israel.

Furthermore IBM has built a prototype lithium air battery for EVs (potentially 1000X the energy density of today's batteries) that they expect to have on the market by 2020, and Toyota report they have a prototype solid-state battery (3X the energy density of today's batteries) which they expect to have in their own EVs by 2015.

And there're the inevitabillity of wireless charging, perhaps even while driving.

I think the future is bright for EVs.

[Odysseus]

http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2012/02/20/chart-of-the-week-oil-dependency/#axzz1s2mMpXlo

[Odysseus]

Just about every building in America has electricity. Nissan is installing hundreds of 240 volt charging stations this year. The Chevy Volt can charge at home overnight and uses a range extending ICE to keep it going for over 300 miles when the battery drops below a certain level of charge. Better Place has started a battery-swapping system, being piloted in Japan and Israel.

Furthermore IBM has built a prototype lithium air battery for EVs (potentially 1000X the energy density of today's batteries) that they expect to have on the market by 2020, and Toyota report they have a prototype solid-state battery (3X the energy density of today's batteries) which they expect to have in their own EVs by 2015.

And there're the inevitabillity of wireless charging, perhaps even while driving.

I think the future is bright for EVs.


I personally would love to own a Tesla Roadster.

[Fedaykin]

It's not Obamas fault. We have to pressure Iran, this stuff has to be done. Repubs using issues like this makes me not care if they lose. Sure Obama was an idiot to say higher gas prices could be good etc etc, i get it. I can think Obama is lame and hate republicans all at the same time now. Gas prices mostly too high only in CA lol. When i hear people complain the are paying 3.50 i laugh. CA has so many taxes we would love 3.50 a gallon

...

As long as i can charge my car with a regular plug like Tesla i am in. But installing some of those car chargers seems like a drag. Especially if you move a lot. Also how will they tax us once people arent buying gas. So many states make there money that way? will it make all electricity go up? Also the battery holds more energy i get that, but it still takes burning something somewhere to make that electricity. The batter only stores it obviously. So it would take 15 yrs or so to know. Until these cars have been on the road for awhile. For instance the batteries could end up not lasting as long as they say, adding to the cars carbon footprint when it has to load in a new battery etc etc.

Why don't you understand, then, why high gas price (or in reality, realistic gas prices) are "good" for us? They certainly aren't good for us short term, but the longer we delay the introduction of sustainable energy the more it's going to hurt when the oil runs dry.

The only way the tech for alternative energy is going to improve at a fast enough pace is if there is high enough demand, and the only way there's going to be high enough demand is when the current state of the tech is more cost efficient than a dino powered economy.

So choose: a low to moderate amount of pain now, or a high to extreme amount of pain later. Basically, do you want $5 gas today, or $50 gas tomorrow?

[cutthemdown]

Why don't you understand, then, why high gas price (or in reality, realistic gas prices) are "good" for us? They certainly aren't good for us short term, but the longer we delay the introduction of sustainable energy the more it's going to hurt when the oil runs dry.

The only way the tech for alternative energy is going to improve at a fast enough pace is if there is high enough demand, and the only way there's going to be high enough demand is when the current state of the tech is more cost efficient than a dino powered economy.

So choose: a low to moderate amount of pain now, or a high to extreme amount of pain later. Basically, do you want $5 gas today, or $50 gas tomorrow?

I want it to be as cheap as possible to tell you the truth. Most of it in Calif in all tax. My point is you watch, when electric cars get going, they will make them as expensive to run as gas ever was. It won't get cheaper per mile I bet. They will figure out a way to tax it to make sure we pay the same for electric miles, or more, as we do for gas powered miles.

Any of you thinking driving will get cheaper are kidding yourselves.

[cutthemdown]

I personally would love to own a Tesla Roadster.

A doctor that digs my band. Comes to see us 5-6 times a year has a Tesla. He drove it up to Pine Mtn when we played last yr and I got to check it out. It was too small for me personally to drive comfortably but it is a great car. He admitted to me he hasn't paid for any electricity for it. He finds plugs all over to steal electricity from. That is why govt want to make the cars need a special charging station for them. Teslas way makes it tough to tax your energy consumption.

[Odysseus]

A doctor that digs my band. Comes to see us 5-6 times a year has a Tesla. He drove it up to Pine Mtn when we played last yr and I got to check it out. It was too small for me personally to drive comfortably but it is a great car. He admitted to me he hasn't paid for any electricity for it. He finds plugs all over to steal electricity from. That is why govt want to make the cars need a special charging station for them. Teslas way makes it tough to tax your energy consumption.

You make some interesting points regarding Tesla. It is kind of small but it's cool.

I used to play in a band. I was a triple octave tenor who played bass, keyboards, and synthesizer (percussion). I loved music as a hobby but the lifestyle sucks balls. There is nothing like live music environment.

PM me the name of your band and where you play. I might show up just for grins. :)

[Fedaykin]

I want it to be as cheap as possible to tell you the truth. Most of it in Calif in all tax. My point is you watch, when electric cars get going, they will make them as expensive to run as gas ever was. It won't get cheaper per mile I bet. They will figure out a way to tax it to make sure we pay the same for electric miles, or more, as we do for gas powered miles.

Any of you thinking driving will get cheaper are kidding yourselves.

*whoosh*

(that was my point, clearly made, whizzing directly over your head)

Want to try again?

[cutthemdown]

*whoosh*

(that was my point, clearly made, whizzing directly over your head)

Want to try again?

Sorry but i got your point, i disagree. I guess i didn't do a good job explaining. High gas prices are artificial because the govt is trying to make them high. Like you admit, they feel high prices now, leads to innovation, leads us away from gas.

My point is once we get there they will charge us as much, or more to drive, then they did when we drove gas cars. The govt will figure out a new way to tax you and charge you so that your per mile costs go up just like always. What is going to suck is that electricity prices probably go up also.

So no I don't think its good to force gas prices higher hoping the country migrates to electric cars that aren't any better for the environment. They are selling you a bunch of BS and you are lapping it up.

[Bob]

So despite what Ultimate Bobo would lead you to believe about Obama and the price of gas the truth lies with Wall Street and Big Oil:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/28/opinion/sanders-gas-speculation/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

This should wash away any of that free market economy bulls**t being espoused by conservatives as determining the price or that it is somehow Obama's fault or that somehow Newt will drill us back to 2.50 a gallon.

This is a perfect example of why the term "free market" should be replaced with the term "false market" as there is no longer any correlation as to what the cost is to produce the product and the price it shows up at in the marketplace. Enron perfected it and it applies to health care as well.

Statists always blame big business, as they use envy to justify various regulations and taking over various sectors of the economy.

Obama claims he wants an "all of the above" approach, but but hires those who publicly state don't want cheap energy to address our energy concerns. After all we are all going to die from global warming, climate disruption -- or whatever they are calling that farce now. If this admin took any real actions to increase supply, then it would be easier to listen about conservation efforts and their tire inflation solutions.

[Fedaykin]

Sorry but i got your point, i disagree. I guess i didn't do a good job explaining. High gas prices are artificial because the govt is trying to make them high. Like you admit, they feel high prices now, leads to innovation, leads us away from gas.


Wow you are clueless: there is no "high gas price" in the U.S. In the U.S. the gas price is artificially LOW compared to similar nations.

The average state&local gas tax in the U.S. (the nation with the most dependence on the infrastructure required to enable the use of cars) is $0.47/ga. The average in CA is $0.65/ga.

In Europe, which is far less dependent on roads, the average tax per gallon is $4-5.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_States


My point is once we get there they will charge us as much, or more to drive, then they did when we drove gas cars. The govt will figure out a new way to tax you and charge you so that your per mile costs go up just like always. What is going to suck is that electricity prices probably go up also.


Once again, you're demonstrating you entirely missed the point. I never claimed that alternative energy would be significantly cheaper than prices today. Look up the word "sustainability" since you clearly don't understand its meaning.


So no I don't think its good to force gas prices higher hoping the country migrates to electric cars that aren't any better for the environment. They are selling you a bunch of BS and you are lapping it up.

The only b.s. being sold is that ~$.50 is some conspiracy to gouge you at the pump. In addition to being far below what's actually required for the intended use of those taxes (maintaining roads), Where, exactly, do you think the money comes from to build the infrastructure for you to drive you car on? Shouldn't it come from the people who use it (aka people who buy gas to drive cars on roads).

So again I'll give you a choice. Pick your poison: pay for roads at the pump, on April 15th, or to some schmuck in a hut in the middle of the road.

It always amazes me that you righties are so concerned "personal responsibility", but then turn around and expect to have no taxes to pay for things like roads. The cognitive dissonance must be literally painful to bear.

[chadta]

Wow you are clueless: there is no "high gas price" in the U.S. In the U.S. the gas price is artificially LOW compared to similar nations.

The average state&local gas tax in the U.S. (the nation with the most dependence on the infrastructure required to enable the use of cars) is $0.47/ga. The average in CA is $0.65/ga.

In Europe, which is far less dependent on roads, the average tax per gallon is $4-5.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_States



Once again, you're demonstrating you entirely missed the point. I never claimed that alternative energy would be significantly cheaper than prices today. Look up the word "sustainability" since you clearly don't understand its meaning.



The only b.s. being sold is that ~$.50 is some conspiracy to gouge you at the pump. In addition to being far below what's actually required for the intended use of those taxes (maintaining roads), Where, exactly, do you think the money comes from to build the infrastructure for you to drive you car on? Shouldn't it come from the people who use it (aka people who buy gas to drive cars on roads).

So again I'll give you a choice. Pick your poison: pay for roads at the pump, on April 15th, or to some schmuck in a hut in the middle of the road.

It always amazes me that you righties are so concerned "personal responsibility", but then turn around and expect to have no taxes to pay for things like roads. The cognitive dissonance must be literally painful to bear.

this whole post is so full of fail

just because everywhere else over taxes something doesnt mean that the prices are artificially low in the US.

if gas tax money was spent on just roads, and not put into general revenue we wouldn't have to pay for road tolls, or vehicle registration, or anything else, we would also have the best roads in the world.

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Finance/fueltaxes.htm

"The other half of the fuel tax revenues are distributed directly to cities, counties and other agencies for roadway programs that are not part of the state highway system."

and its even worse here in Canada and just imagine how much extra money they are taking in taxes in europe, beyond what they need to maintain the roads and what not.

[Requiem]

You so full of fail Chadta. @:cp ()*9f`~,-

[chadta]

You so full of fail Chadta. @:cp ()*9f`~,-

what do you know, you still think corporations actually pay taxes Hilarious!

so washington above

http://www.newsobserver.com/2008/08/12/63315/where-do-gas-taxes-really-go.html

north carolina

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2010/06/19/where-does-your-gas-tax-money-go/

texas

http://www.ehow.com/list_5769981_federal-gas-taxes-used-for_.html

"Public Transportation

About a third of federal gas tax revenue in the Highway Trust Fund also goes toward subsidizing local public transit projects."

[Fedaykin]

this whole post is so full of fail

just because everywhere else over taxes something doesnt mean that the prices are artificially low in the US.


Yes it does. Gas prices are subsidized in the U.S. through low taxation both at the pump and by the providers. Money to maintain U.S. roads is not covered by fuel & vehicle taxes. More to the point, the current amount we spend is not enough to maintain this important infrastructure (the last time I saw I figure I recall the current estimate is we need to be spending about $90bn more a year just to keep things from falling apart)


if gas tax money was spent on just roads, and not put into general revenue we wouldn't have to pay for road tolls, or vehicle registration, or anything else, we would also have the best roads in the world.

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Finance/fueltaxes.htm

"The other half of the fuel tax revenues are distributed directly to cities, counties and other agencies for roadway programs that are not part of the state highway system."


And you have the gall to say my post was full of fail? You can't even comprehend your own quoted source!

The above is saying that taxes collected by WA are distributed down to the local level for roadway programs. It does not say the taxes are put into the general revenue.


and its even worse here in Canada and just imagine how much extra money they are taking in taxes in europe, beyond what they need to maintain the roads and what not.

Wow you are just as full of sh*t as cutlet.

The U.S. currently consumes about 380 million gallons of gas a day with an average of $.47/ga in tax, for an average of $65 bn in tax revenue a year. Compare this to nearly $170bn a year in spending JUST IN HIGHWAYS (federal, state combined). Then add in the estimates that we need to be spending about $90bn more to keep it all from falling apart.

http://www.commonwealthfoundation.org/doclib/20100623_highwayspendingbystate2008.pdf

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/onh2p10.htm


In case you are as poor at mathematics as you are reading comprehension, I'll explicitly point out that $170bn+$90bn is a lot more than the $65bn collected. Guess where that ~$110bn ($200bn if we don't want bridges to start collapsing) shortfall comes from?

If you guessed "the general tax fund" then you're a winner!

[Fedaykin]

P.S. the numbers in my previous post appear to be talking just about highways, not all roadways. So the disparity between the revenue and spending numbers only gets worse.

[Blart]

It's hard to blame them - It's smart to invest in oil and raw materials during a recovery. I don't think (or I hope) there isn't anything malicious behind it.

[cutthemdown]

BS Fed. They take tax from us at every friggin turn. I'm not surprised it costs so much to maintain roads considering what they pay people in Cal Trans etc etc. Way overpaid for the skill it takes to the job.

Cal Tran landscaper make 3000 a month and then get tons of benefits on top of it.

I don't care how much you say I don't know. I will never agree that making gas prices higher then they should be, to force people over to electric cars, is right or makes sense. Also don't compare Europe. Totally different thing over there. For one we have a huge sprawling country and we need cars to get around a lot more.

One thing Chu said before he tool energy job is that high spikes in gas prices are a good thing. This is all part of Obamas plan.

[Fedaykin]

BS Fed. They take tax from us at every friggin turn. I'm not surprised it costs so much to maintain roads considering what they pay people in Cal Trans etc etc. Way overpaid for the skill it takes to the job.

Cal Tran landscaper make 3000 a month and then get tons of benefits on top of it.

I don't care how much you say I don't know. I will never agree that making gas prices higher then they should be, to force people over to electric cars, is right or makes sense.

In addition to your frequent and occasionally amusing non-sequitors, you are a serious abuser (like many of your righty brethren) of the straw-man. I haven't claimed that it'd be a good idea to artificially inflate gas prices.

I've claimed it would be to stop artificially reducing the price (via tax breaks to oil companies and using general tax monies to fund roadway maintenance).

Why are you so scared of people seeing the true cost of transportation on our roadways? Either way we're paying the same amount -- the only difference is people might second guess buying that 10mpg truck to commute back and forth to work if they realize (since the costs won't be hidden by the tax structure) it costs them $1 a mile instead of $0.25 if they bought a car more suitable for commuting.

For 30 or more years we've been desperately hiding the true cost of our transportation and at the same time short changing it. Both of those follies are catching up to us.


Also don't compare Europe. Totally different thing over there. For one we have a huge sprawling country and we need cars to get around a lot more.

One thing Chu said before he tool energy job is that high spikes in gas prices are a good thing. This is all part of Obamas plan.

More B.S. Yes, the U.S. is very inefficiently designed, but that doesn't mean we can't make significant improvements even if we stick to dino powered cars. I just love how the "magic hand of the free market" conveniently can't handle problems you pick very selectively based on your ideology (which seems to be wanting to having your cake and eat it too -- free roadways).

[cutthemdown]

I wish Obama would be honest like FED is. Just come right out and say, stop whining about gas prices they should be even higher. In fact you would be better off if we let them skyrocket so you would all change your driving habits and stop being gluttons for gas and driving big trucks. Just be honest, lose the election, but at least say what you really believe.

[Fedaykin]

I wish Obama would be honest like FED is. Just come right out and say, stop whining about gas prices they should be even higher. In fact you would be better off if we let them skyrocket so you would all change your driving habits and stop being gluttons for gas and driving big trucks. Just be honest, lose the election, but at least say what you really believe.

You have a deep seated fear of reality, don't you?

[cutthemdown]

You have a deep seated fear of reality, don't you?

Hilarious!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You have a deep seated fear of reality, don't you?

He lives inside the Fox News bubble just like the rest of 'em.

In any event, there should be a new rule: If you voted for Bush/Cheney, then you forfeit your right to complain about gas prices.

The half-wits who supported the Bush Crime Family saw no problem with putting two oil men in the WH.

Likewise, they had no problem when those two oil men invited Exxon-Mobil to write its own legislation and to craft America's energy policy.

[Bob]

He lives inside the Fox News bubble just like the rest of 'em.

In any event, there should be a new rule: If you voted for Bush/Cheney, then you forfeit your right to complain about gas prices.

The half-wits who supported the Bush Crime Family saw no problem with putting two oil men in the WH.

Likewise, they had no problem when those two oil men invited Exxon-Mobil to write its own legislation and to craft America's energy policy.

Soros-boy -- what was fuel when Bush left office? What is it now? If one does not believe in tapping into any additional oil reserves the cost of oil will shoot up anytime there is an international blip. If one believes that global warming is a threat, then it is "logical" to fight for European prices (which the statist wants -- and that is being reached -- congrats on your fundamental transformation!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Soros-boy -- what was fuel when Bush left office?

Wrong question, Kool-Aid Boy.

You should be asking "how much was fuel before Dumbya took office?"

[lonestar]

yes, oil futures commodity speculation absolutely is inflating the price of oil. This has been acknowledged by everyone since day 1 of the BO administration.

So I ask--what is BO doing about this?

So I ask--what has BO done about the criminals behind TARP?

BO came into power with "Hope and change" and he's done nothing to help stop the criminals on Wall Street from doing the same exact same crap they did during the Bush administration. He has not brought anyone to justice who was directly responsible for the crash in 2008. He has not instituted any laws protecting the consumer against oil speculation by Wall Street traders who are simply inflating the price of oil in order to make a quick profit.

BO should have been stopping this type of crap from day 1. He should have been breaking up the health insurance cartels.

I'm sorry, but he's tied in with these people. He'll wax poetic about "justice for the middle class" but his actions in no way help the middle class.

Well there you go thinking again..

wonder what the nobama apologists are going to respond to this..

Yeah I forgot it is all Bushes fault..Hilarious!Hilarious!Hilarious!

[cutthemdown]

You make some interesting points regarding Tesla. It is kind of small but it's cool.

I used to play in a band. I was a triple octave tenor who played bass, keyboards, and synthesizer (percussion). I loved music as a hobby but the lifestyle sucks balls. There is nothing like live music environment.

PM me the name of your band and where you play. I might show up just for grins. :)

Sometimes I wish I had never played music. Just because you get to a point that if you don't play you don't feel right. You sort of have to play once it becomes a way of life for you. Gets in the way of relationships, careers etc etc. Playing music can get into your blood even if you are only an avg musician like me.

Bands name is Boxcar 7. www.boxcar7.com we play all over the LA/OC/LB area in Southern CA! Pretty good band made up of some great guys.

[alkemical]

Sometimes I wish I had never played music. Just because you get to a point that if you don't play you don't feel right. You sort of have to play once it becomes a way of life for you. Gets in the way of relationships, careers etc etc. Playing music can get into your blood even if you are only an avg musician like me.

Bands name is Boxcar 7. www.boxcar7.com we play all over the LA/OC/LB area in Southern CA! Pretty good band made up of some great guys.

#Werd to that about music/playing. Werd to that.

[Bob]

Wrong question, Kool-Aid Boy.

You should be asking "how much was fuel before Dumbya took office?"

Why? Do you have a time machine? The trendline is moving up -- I dont want to pay more for fuel -- perhaps you do, like some in the Obama administration.

[~Crash~]

lol

[~Crash~]

yep don't let Oil rigs drill and expect prices to be cheap ..sure thing ... now back to your original programing it is not not my fault pres....

[alkemical]

How much of the cost of Oil, is tied to the dropping value of the $.

Maybe gas isn't going up, your dollar is going down.

[Bob]

How much of the cost of Oil, is tied to the dropping value of the $.

Maybe gas isn't going up, your dollar is going down.

This is one factor among many...

[alkemical]

This is one factor among many...

Oh, indeed. I'm not going to tell you there's one "neat/tied w/a bow" answer. But one thing that has a major effect is the "power" of the US$.

[sisterhellfyre]

BO should have been stopping this type of crap from day 1. He should have been breaking up the health insurance cartels.

I'm sorry, but he's tied in with these people. He'll wax poetic about "justice for the middle class" but his actions in no way help the middle class.

Stop the calendar, folks! I actually find myself agreeing with Tombstone this time. 2012 really could be the end of the world.

[~Crash~]

How much of the cost of Oil, is tied to the dropping value of the $.

Maybe gas isn't going up, your dollar is going down.

yep it is some of this . think how pissed the Arabs are with that huge ass pile of dollars that are now worth a good fire they are talking of making us buy their own currency to buy oil . can you blame them ?

If so we are in a world of hurt.

[~Crash~]

This is one factor among many...

the many is simple . Drill

[~Crash~]

if we take care of our self America will get strong rather Quick look at all the money that is leaving this country .

[~Crash~]

We are feeding and letting how many counties live large with our money to have gas ?

[~Crash~]

Sea Salt look into it crazy but my mind is racing with all kinds of great ideas since I started to use it .

[~Crash~]

We should be looking into all ideas and not one . Natural gas for one. Methane is huge if you look into what is at the bottom of the ocean

[sisterhellfyre]

yep it is some of this . think how pissed the Arabs are with that huge ass pile of dollars that are now worth a good fire they are talking of making us buy their own currency to buy oil . can you blame them ?

If so we are in a world of hurt.

Maybe that's part of The Master Plan too. Drive all the economies of the world into the ground by force-feeding them dollars since 1945, make the dollar worthless, and then scoop up everything in sight with the world's biggest military.

Nah, that could never happen.

[Bob]

the many is simple . Drill

the starting point is deciding -- do we want to have cheap energy or not -- there are some that dont want it -- because of global climate disruption or whatever -- if those who want european style prices set policy, we will get higher prices.

[~Crash~]

the starting point is deciding -- do we want to have cheap energy or not -- there are some that don't want it -- because of global climate disruption or whatever -- if those who want european style prices set policy, we will get higher prices.

yep China is not to worried about what they do but we sure are climbing on that wagon. cheap comes at a price of children work force and coal plants to make Electricity and not one filter to clean that said plant . Look we do it right why would you trust them . green is USA doing it not letting China . they could care less !

[~Crash~]

I love the we want America to have a work force in plants and factories but then try to push up the price of energy great Idea . all we have to try and keep up with other countries is cheap recourses . then being stream lined.

take that away and china will take what little jobs are left.

[~Crash~]

Fact add in all the ideas that really work price would come crashing down . Put a Natural Gas pump in and watch the oil men start to sweat.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Nope, just asking for oil speculation to be confined to only those traders who actually use the oil, not by some trader who is trying to manipulate the commodity to make a quick buck.

Also, how is breaking up health insurance cartels going against the free market?

Geeeezus, do you even consider what you are typing before hitting the "post" button? One of the most ignorant and uneducated statements I have ever read.

Fossil fuels are "commodities". Look up the definition next time before you make such an uninformed rant.

[alkemical]

yep it is some of this . think how pissed the Arabs are with that huge ass pile of dollars that are now worth a good fire they are talking of making us buy their own currency to buy oil . can you blame them ?

If so we are in a world of hurt.

Yeah, it's coming.

[alkemical]

Fact add in all the ideas that really work price would come crashing down . Put a Natural Gas pump in and watch the oil men start to sweat.

Not really....many "energy" companies have diversified.

[Tombstone RJ]

Geeeezus, do you even consider what you are typing before hitting the "post" button? One of the most ignorant and uneducated statements I have ever read.

Fossil fuels are "commodities". Look up the definition next time before you make such an uninformed rant.

geeeezus look who is the idiot now: http://news.yahoo.com/obama-wants-target-oil-market-153959155.html

I particularly like this part: Obama wants Congress to strengthen federal supervision of oil markets, increase penalties for market manipulation and empower regulators to increase the amount of money energy traders are required to put behind their transactions.

Now, go back and look at what I said, here, let me help you: Nope, just asking for oil speculation to be confined to only those traders who actually use the oil, not by some trader who is trying to manipulate the commodity to make a quick buck.

hmmm.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

geeeezus look who is the idiot now: http://news.yahoo.com/obama-wants-target-oil-market-153959155.html

I particularly like this part: Obama wants Congress to strengthen federal supervision of oil markets, increase penalties for market manipulation and empower regulators to increase the amount of money energy traders are required to put behind their transactions.

Now, go back and look at what I said, here, let me help you: Nope, just asking for oil speculation to be confined to only those traders who actually use the oil, not by some trader who is trying to manipulate the commodity to make a quick buck.

hmmm.
You missed it again. Obama or no one else can "spot" regulate oil commodities trading and he knows it, Congress knows it.
Any "new" trading laws would have to apply to all trades of all fuels trading.

Amazing you are always calling Obama a socialist but you want him to institute more federal laws.

[Tombstone RJ]

You missed it again. Obama or no one else can "spot" regulate oil commodities trading and he knows it, Congress knows it.
Any "new" trading laws would have to apply to all trades of all fuels trading.

Amazing you are always calling Obama a socialist but you want him to institute more federal laws.

just admit you're wrong and be done with it already.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

just admit you're wrong and be done with it already.
No I'm right, you are a typical Right Wing hypocrite when it comes to your hate for all things Obama.

[Tombstone RJ]

No I'm right, you are a typical Right Wing hypocrite when it comes to your hate for all things Obama.

Here's more for you:

Obama's plan this time calls on Congress to:

— Increase six-fold the surveillance and enforcement staff of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission to better deter oil market manipulation.

— Increase spending on technology to provide better oversight and surveillance of energy markets.

— Increase civil and criminal penalties against firms that engage in market manipulation from $1 million to $10 million.

— Give the Commodity Futures Trading Commission authority to increase the amount of money that a trader must put up to back a trading position. The administration officials said such authority could help limit disruptions in energy markets.

I've given BO credit in the past, not much, but I have. For example killing Bin Laden and drawing down troops in Iraq. I'm giving him credit for this move because it is long over due.

[lonestar]

geeeezus look who is the idiot now: http://news.yahoo.com/obama-wants-target-oil-market-153959155.html

I particularly like this part: Obama wants Congress to strengthen federal supervision of oil markets, increase penalties for market manipulation and empower regulators to increase the amount of money energy traders are required to put behind their transactions.

Now, go back and look at what I said, here, let me help you: Nope, just asking for oil speculation to be confined to only those traders who actually use the oil, not by some trader who is trying to manipulate the commodity to make a quick buck.

hmmm.

NOW that I could go for ..

Wonder who's idea that was..
Pretty certain it did not come from inside the WH..

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Here's more for you:

Obama's plan this time calls on Congress to:

— Increase six-fold the surveillance and enforcement staff of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission to better deter oil market manipulation.

— Increase spending on technology to provide better oversight and surveillance of energy markets.

— Increase civil and criminal penalties against firms that engage in market manipulation from $1 million to $10 million.

— Give the Commodity Futures Trading Commission authority to increase the amount of money that a trader must put up to back a trading position. The administration officials said such authority could help limit disruptions in energy markets.

I've given BO credit in the past, not much, but I have. For example killing Bin Laden and drawing down troops in Iraq. I'm giving him credit for this move because it is long over due.

Let me make this clear, Obama and/or Congress, are NOT going to pass any new laws that will "spot" regulate oil futures and everyone in the industry knows it.

It's nothing more than election year fodder (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fodder), (see #4).

[Tombstone RJ]

Let me make this clear, Obama and/or Congress, are NOT going to pass any new laws that will "spot" regulate oil futures and everyone in the industry knows it.

It's nothing more than election year fodder (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fodder), (see #4).

BO is talking about enforcing the policies already on the books too and increasing financial penalites.

I'm not sure why you are fighting me on this one. BO's your guy.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

BO is talking about enforcing the policies already on the books too and increasing financial penalites.
I'm not sure why you are fighting me on this one. BO's your guy.

No, you posted the below to which I basically said is nonsense and it will not happen...


Nope, just asking for oil speculation to be confined to only those traders who actually use the oil.


And I have no "guy". But I will respond to lies, propaganda, willful misrepresentation, etc.. being spewed by the Right.

And if it comes down to putting another self professed war monger the in WH or Obama (which has just happened) then there is no question who will get my vote.

[Tombstone RJ]

No, you posted the below to which I basically said is nonsense and it will not happen....

And yet BO, YOUR GUY, is pushing for congress to pass new legislation.



And I have no "guy". But I will respond to lies, propaganda, willful misrepresentation, etc.. being spewed by the Right.

And if it comes down to putting another self professed war monger the in WH or Obama (which has just happened) then there is no question who will get my vote.

Whatever, you are a big time democrat. I'm an independent and my criticisims of BO line up accordingly as did my criticisms of Bush.

There's no way you wouldn't vote for BO. None.

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

any ways we can tell opec to suck it form a pact with our side of the world and get lower priced oil and stop over making the dollar

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I'm an independent .
Hilarious!
Oh please, you border on radical Right Wing membership.