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View Full Version : Obama's Budget Director Contradicts Obamacare Supreme Court Argument


UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
02-16-2012, 08:21 PM
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obamas-budget-director-contradicts-obamacare-supreme-court-argument_629855.html

As the liberal website Slate has explained about Obamacare, President Obama's signature legislation "combine[s] an express mandatory insurance requirement with tax penalties . . . for noncompliance." Which is why the Obama "administration’s lawyers have cited . . . the tax . . . power in support of the mandate," and that remains a central tenet of the administration's Supreme Court case in defending Obamacare. It is not the White House is mandating care, they are telling the Supreme Court, but it's that one will be taxed if he does not get health care.

But today on Capitol Hill, acting White House budget director Jeff Zients directly undermined the administration's claim by saying that there is no tax element of Obamacare. Here's the compelling exchange

Congressman Scott Garrett: “Thank you and I appreciate your testimony today. I appreciate you also being here from the private sector. You probably feel a little lonely sometime over at the White House in that respect. But I’m glad that you’re here, coming with that experience. One point though, you did just say there are no tax increases for those folks who are making under – “

Acting White House Budget Director Jeff Zients: “$250,000. “

Rep. Garrett: “-- $250,000.”

Zeints: “Families under $250,000. Individuals under 200k.”

Rep. Garrett: “So if I am part of a family that does not buy health insurance in violation of the President's health care program and I got to pay because of that, that is not a tax incre – that is not a tax on me?”

Zeints: “The Affordable Care Act saves money.”

Rep. Garrett: “I understand that, but is that a tax on me then if I do not pay that, or is that not a tax?”

Zeints: “I'm not sure I'm following the question.”

Rep. Garrett: “You said there’s no tax increases on people who make under $250,000. If I make under $250,000 and I do not buy health insurance as I’m required to under the Affordable Healthcare Act , is that a tax on me or is that not a tax on me?”

Zeints: “Well this is –“

Rep. Garrett: “A moment ago you said there’s no tax increase.”

Zeints: “There aren’t.”

Rep. Garrett: “So that’s not a tax?”

Zeints: “No.”

Rep. Garrett: “That's not a tax. Okay. I just want to be clear on that because that's not the argument the administration is making. Let's move on -- before the Supreme Court.”




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barryr
02-17-2012, 05:35 AM
They will just use lawyerism type of BS and say it is a penalty or a fine, and not a tax.

Smiling Assassin27
02-17-2012, 07:31 AM
They think America's filled with idiots. They'll point to the sky and tell you it's green--and they'll expect you to buy it. By the way, under this administration, the term 'Budget Director' is synonymous with things like 'Squared Circle' and 'Pelosian Catholicism'.

Rohirrim
02-17-2012, 08:37 AM
Right Wingers still freaking out over the mandate they came up with in the first place.
:ouwknow:

pricejj
02-17-2012, 10:11 AM
They will just use lawyerism type of BS and say it is a penalty or a fine, and not a tax.

1. If the individual mandate is a "penalty" or a "fine", it is unConstitutional. The federal government has never before mandated an individual to buy a product, and cannot under the 10th amendment, which specifically enumerates the power of the federal government and leaves all else to the states, or the people. I assume this is the route that the Obama administration will take, invoking the Clause, Wickard 1942, saying that there is legal precedent.

2. If the individual mandate is a "tax", then the Democrat framers did not use due process. All taxes must be initiated in the House of Representatives, Obamacare was originally passed in the Senate. Obamacare would be forced back through the legislative process, and would be shot down immediately. Also there is the Constitutionality issue of a "punitive tax" (only people who don't have health insurance have to pay it), which is also not legal. The Obama administration will NOT win if they call the individual mandate a tax.

If the SCOTUS rules in favor of the individual mandate giving the federal government unlimited powers under the Commerce clause, then the SCOTUS will have rendered itself a meaningless institution.

The healthcare issue would best be solved at the state level, where 50 individual experiments can find the best way to solve the problem. We can already see from Massachusetts, that the individual mandate is not the solution.

Rohirrim
02-17-2012, 10:41 AM
^You know, the Republicans are always free to come up with their own plan...


wait a minute...


That's right! Obamacare is their plan. :rofl:

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
02-17-2012, 03:44 PM
^You know, the Republicans are always free to come up with their own plan...


wait a minute...


That's right! Obamacare is their plan. :rofl:

Strawman anyone?

Rohirrim
02-17-2012, 04:45 PM
Strawman anyone?

Strawman? No. Truth. ObamaCare is based on both RomneyCare, and Bob Dole’s health care reform plan of the 1990′s, which Newt Gingrich supported. The mandate came out of the Heritage Foundation.

orinjkrush
02-17-2012, 06:30 PM
don't we have to buy car insurance? what's the diff?

kappys
02-17-2012, 06:52 PM
don't we have to buy car insurance? what's the diff?

You can choose to have a car or not. No car, no insurance.

Of course the Founders decreed that every able bodied white male 18-40 would be required to purchase and maintain a firearm among other equipment at their own expense. Much better parallel IMO, plus its a real thorn in the side of Tea Baggers.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
02-17-2012, 08:56 PM
don't we have to buy car insurance? what's the diff?

Yes! You don't have to drive!

pricejj
02-17-2012, 09:04 PM
don't we have to buy car insurance? what's the diff?

1. Auto insurance is not a federal mandate, as it is outside the bounds of federal power (10th amendment).

2. All states do not mandate that a person carry auto insurance (New Hampshire, Wisconsin just mandated in 2009). Other states require a different liability levels.

3. Auto insurance rates are very competitive as customers are allowed to purchase from anywhere in the country (not so for health insurance).

pricejj
02-17-2012, 09:07 PM
It is also important to note that auto insurance liability requirements only exist to protect injury costs or property damage to other people...not injury to yourself or damage to your property.