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View Full Version : Hello, Bills fan with a question about Von Miller


Buffalo13
02-14-2012, 04:48 PM
Hey guys, a Bills fan here. Congrats on a nice season (or an interesting one to say the least!) Can't tell you how hard I was rooting for you against the Steelers...what an awesome game and a great game plan by you guys.

Anyway, I wanted to try and get some more info as to how you guys used Von Miller this year. I see he is listed as your Sam 'backer? How much of that did he play and to what effect?

The reason I ask is because with Buffalo's switch to the 40 front this year, I'd love to find a guy who could potentially play OLB for us in the base defense, then be an effective pass rusher when the time comes. I'm looking at guys like Nick Perry and Melvin Ingram at #10 or maybe a guy like Cam Johnson down the road a ways.

Clearly none of those guys have Miller's ability, but I think the way today's NFL is going, it's all about defending the pass and the more rushers you can put out there the better.

Any info would be great...thanks!

Swedish Extrovert
02-14-2012, 05:39 PM
Hey guys, a Bills fan here. Congrats on a nice season (or an interesting one to say the least!) Can't tell you how hard I was rooting for you against the Steelers...what an awesome game and a great game plan by you guys.

Anyway, I wanted to try and get some more info as to how you guys used Von Miller this year. I see he is listed as your Sam 'backer? How much of that did he play and to what effect?

The reason I ask is because with Buffalo's switch to the 40 front this year, I'd love to find a guy who could potentially play OLB for us in the base defense, then be an effective pass rusher when the time comes. I'm looking at guys like Nick Perry and Melvin Ingram at #10 or maybe a guy like Cam Johnson down the road a ways.

Clearly none of those guys have Miller's ability, but I think the way today's NFL is going, it's all about defending the pass and the more rushers you can put out there the better.

Any info would be great...thanks!

Miller wasn't a pure SAM. He almost always blitzed on passing downs and was often replaced by Haggan on running downs. He played off the line mostly, but moved up on the line in Dime and Quarter packages, effectively making him more of an undersized defensive end.

He wasn't terrible in coverage, and his run-stopping will get better.

There are plenty of more knowledgable people than I on this board that will give you better info.

gyldenlove
02-14-2012, 05:44 PM
He plays a lot like Brian Cushing did at USC, he does a significant amount of blitzing out of the base formation but does do some traditional standup defense. He was moved to DE in the nickel and dime packages.

Binkythefrog
02-14-2012, 06:01 PM
The Broncos would also rush him in A gaps between the center and the guard. His quickness often was too much o-lines to handle although his effectiveness declined when he broke his thumb.

On running downs Miller was surprisingly good at holding the edge or chasing down plays that were run away from him as well.

iforgotmypassword
02-15-2012, 05:55 PM
Miller had ZERO moves this year. His stats were purely off talent. If he can learn a few swim/bullrush/spin moves he'll be unstoppable.

rugbythug
02-15-2012, 05:59 PM
Miller had ZERO moves this year. His stats were purely off talent. If he can learn a few swim/bullrush/spin moves he'll be unstoppable.

Awesome is a Move.

I remember a Bull Rush that Destroyed the RT from the Chargers and a Sick Spin move at another time.

Shananahan
02-15-2012, 06:09 PM
Miller had ZERO moves this year. His stats were purely off talent. If he can learn a few swim/bullrush/spin moves he'll be unstoppable.
What?

myMind
02-15-2012, 06:18 PM
Miller had ZERO moves this year. His stats were purely off talent. If he can learn a few swim/bullrush/spin moves he'll be unstoppable.

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/2012/buffalol.png

snowspot66
02-15-2012, 06:48 PM
.

DHallblows
02-15-2012, 07:01 PM
http://gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=3154744&t=o (http://gifsoup.com/view/3154744/von-miller-destroys-sanchez.html)

Swedish Extrovert
02-15-2012, 07:09 PM
http://gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=3154744&t=o (http://gifsoup.com/view/3154744/von-miller-destroys-sanchez.html)

I was just about to mention him bulldozing the 320lbs Wayne Hunter to get to Sanchez like that.

BroncoBuff
02-15-2012, 09:15 PM
Awesome is a Move.

Damn straight it is .....


http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/9944/vonbills.jpg

enjolras
02-15-2012, 09:19 PM
The scary thing is that Von still has a lot of room to improve, even as a pass rusher. His beastliness is going to be off the charts.

Jason7730
02-15-2012, 09:20 PM
http://gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=3154744&t=o (http://gifsoup.com/view/3154744/von-miller-destroys-sanchez.html)

Thank you! That was one HELL of a move the way he set him up, tossed him to the side! Looked like a smaller, albeit faster, Reggie White.

Archer81
02-15-2012, 09:25 PM
Awesome is a Move.

I remember a Bull Rush that Destroyed the RT from the Chargers and a Sick Spin move at another time.


In the Jets game he destroyed their right tackle. Pure bull rush. It was the total awesome.

Edit* As shown above.

:Broncos:

BroncoBuff
02-15-2012, 09:27 PM
http://gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=3154744&t=o (http://gifsoup.com/view/3154744/von-miller-destroys-sanchez.html)

That's a veteran move right there, mixing up and disrupting the OT's hands like that, then plowing through him like a train. Hunter's not their best guy, but he's eight years in the league.



http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/files/2011/11/broncos-jets-von-miller-mark-sanchez.jpg

Drunken.Broncoholic
02-15-2012, 09:45 PM
Miller has Derrick Thomas acceleration coming off the line. He's got plenty of time to polish his skills and learn the game. And clearly he is not like the bust Aaron Curry. I wanted Patrick Peterson or Miller. With some improvement he's going to be something special for a long time. His injury did slow him down a bit toward the end of the year.

Archer81
02-15-2012, 10:27 PM
Miller has Derrick Thomas acceleration coming off the line. He's got plenty of time to polish his skills and learn the game. And clearly he is not like the bust Aaron Curry. I wanted Patrick Peterson or Miller. With some improvement he's going to be something special for a long time. His injury did slow him down a bit toward the end of the year.


I think the DT comparison is apt, but I think Miller is faster from his first step to overall speed. When he learns wtf he is doing...good God.

:Broncos:

BroncoBuff
02-15-2012, 10:30 PM
Miller has Derrick Thomas acceleration coming off the line. He's got plenty of time to polish his skills and learn the game. And clearly he is not like the bust Aaron Curry. I wanted Patrick Peterson or Miller. With some improvement he's going to be something special for a long time. His injury did slow him down a bit toward the end of the year.

Miller was the right choice, definitely. Peterson was big news only because of the great returns. But the scouting reports pre-draft barely mentioned his return skills, if at all. On defense he barely cracked the starting lineup and committed a ton of penalties.

Archer81
02-15-2012, 10:40 PM
Miller was the right choice, definitely. Peterson was big news only because of the great returns. But the scouting reports pre-draft barely mentioned his return skills, if at all. On defense he barely cracked the starting lineup and committed a ton of penalties.


I think Denver would have done fine with Peterson. Luckily though we went for passrush. It made the difference in alot of tight games. A rookie corner who is very up and down...kinda scary to think about.

:Broncos:

Archer81
02-15-2012, 10:43 PM
As for the OP, sorry to Miller jack your thread.

Miller is raw, but immensely talented. He did come out on obvious running downs, he would overrun the play, which shows his overaggression rather than lack of ability. His passrush was/will be huge. But Allen (former DC) schemed to get him and Dumervil to the QB. Before the draft last year people could not understand why Denver would take a LB if they were switching to a 4-3. Worked out, but its the belief here that Miller is a rare talent.

:Broncos:

Shananahan
02-15-2012, 10:45 PM
Peterson was big news only because of the great returns. But the scouting reports pre-draft barely mentioned his return skills, if at all.
What are you talking about?

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sa=X&ei=Z6Q8T9LkOYvqgQfZp7yrCA&ved=0CBgQBSgA&q=%22patrick+peterson%22+%22scouting+report%22+%22 return%22&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=c2d3d090bf33c3b3&biw=1680&bih=877

Drunken.Broncoholic
02-15-2012, 10:51 PM
I actually wanted Peterson to be our return guy pre draft. Check his junior year on return stats. I remember him lighting it up.

Bills fan? I know a lot of broncos fans wanted Dareus. I'm glad we went Miller though.

Shananahan
02-15-2012, 10:54 PM
I wanted Dareus by a mile, then Peterson. I remember posting here that I'd rather Denver draft A.J. Green at #2 than Von Miller.

I never imagined they'd be able to utilize him the way they did at SOLB, or that he'd be as amazingly good as he was.

BroncoMan4ever
02-15-2012, 11:16 PM
Miller has Derrick Thomas acceleration coming off the line. He's got plenty of time to polish his skills and learn the game. And clearly he is not like the bust Aaron Curry. I wanted Patrick Peterson or Miller. With some improvement he's going to be something special for a long time. His injury did slow him down a bit toward the end of the year.

that rookie sack record would have been his if he didn't have the injury

BroncoBuff
02-15-2012, 11:54 PM
What are you talking about?

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sa=X&ei=Z6Q8T9LkOYvqgQfZp7yrCA&ved=0CBgQBSgA&q=%22patrick+peterson%22+%22scouting+report%22+%22 return%22&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=c2d3d090bf33c3b3&biw=1680&bih=877

Why is it always this, bickering over small things? Okay this is all I'm gonna say on this, so here:

This report mentions returns in just the 9th of 12 paragraphs (http://draftbreakdown.com/scouting-report-patrick-peterson), praising him, but concluding only "IF a team uses him as a returner" ...
In this report, return skills listed as just the 13th of 14 bullet points (http://www.kffl.com/article.php/126758/) .....
This one doesn't mention returns at all (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/conversations?id=27010&_slug_=patrick-peterson&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl %2fdraft%2fplayer%2fconversations%3fid%3d27010%26_ slug_%3dpatrick-peterson), though their structure seems to preclude it ...
This New England rating mentions it just once in a fairly in-depth narrative (http://campussportsconnection.com/ncaa/alabama-crimson-tide/story/55202), and there are others.

You think his return skills were big deal in pre-draft ranking, I think that although he was a great returner in college, that aspect was mostly a tack-on afterthought, a 'maybe.' NOBODY expected anything even REMOTELY like what he accomplished.

Now you quote some of your quotes - which admittedly there are several - I'll help: this one compares him to Josh Cribbs (http://www.yardbarker.com/college_football/articles/patrick_peterson_2011_draft_scouting_report/4243424). Throw in a couple, then we can move on, okay?

Sorry we couldn't agree, but thanks for playing!

BroncoBuff
02-15-2012, 11:57 PM
I'm not sure whether I crack myself up, or make myself nauseous ... :ouwknow:

Shananahan
02-15-2012, 11:58 PM
I just thought it was an odd comment for you to make, considering almost every single scouting report I'd seen about him not only mentioned his return skills, but praised them and listed them as a strength.

extralife
02-16-2012, 12:42 AM
I recall him being mentioned as the best kick return prospect since deion

Swedish Extrovert
02-16-2012, 10:35 AM
What are you talking about?

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sa=X&ei=Z6Q8T9LkOYvqgQfZp7yrCA&ved=0CBgQBSgA&q=%22patrick+peterson%22+%22scouting+report%22+%22 return%22&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=c2d3d090bf33c3b3&biw=1680&bih=877

SAM is the perfect spot for him opposite Elvis at RDE, too.

HILife
02-16-2012, 10:53 AM
Miller had ZERO moves this year. His stats were purely off talent. If he can learn a few swim/bullrush/spin moves he'll be unstoppable.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/fLpimht0tUM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

HILife
02-16-2012, 10:55 AM
http://gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=3154744&t=o (http://gifsoup.com/view/3154744/von-miller-destroys-sanchez.html)

beat me too it.

Swedish Extrovert
02-16-2012, 11:31 AM
beat me too it.

I wouldn't call that "moves" though... that was mostly pure talent.

pricejj
02-16-2012, 01:40 PM
To the OP -

Melvin Ingram can move laterally very well, and has great athleticism. He is only 6'1, and runs a 4.8 forty...but he has had good sack production in college (10 as a Sr., 9 as a Jr.). I think he will be a force in the NFL, and would be interested in picking him.


You can have Nick Perry. He is the same size as Von Miller, but lacks Von's elite speed, strength and moves. I think Nick Perry will have a dissapointing NFL career if someone picks him in the top 25. I've only seen him bend the corner, without displaying any other moves...250 lbs, and a 4.6 forty isn't going to be enough for him playing at the DE position.

iforgotmypassword
02-17-2012, 10:52 AM
The Jet's play was amazing. But that is not a bullrush. He origanally tries to get the edge and then comes back inside, get's the O-lineman off balance and basically just punks him. That was a talent play. A bullrush is where you stick your helmet into the O-lines chin and drive him back, (works good for a change-up with speed guys because you already have the O-line thinking laterally) the ultimate goal of a bullrush is to cause disruption more than it is to get a sack. If you had to put this play into a "category" of moves it would probably be a pull-push, but it's not really that either.

I do remember his spin move, it was brilliant and he barely even got touched because he was so quick at it. But then we never saw it again. Imagine if he developes this.

I love Von as much as anybody here, he's got HOF written all over him, but he is very raw. He will get even better then he is now.

On one last note, I think he was much better in the run game then people give him credit for. He made a ton of plays for a SAM in the run game. My take on Von is that we need a middle backer and strong run-support DE (Ayers) who does the thinking and clean up work. When you have a talent like Von you don't want him to think too awfully much, you need to just unleash him and tell him to go play. Other guys need to be solid and make a lot of plays. Von's job needs to be making BIG plays.

fdf
02-17-2012, 11:41 AM
... I'd rather Denver draft A.J. Green at #2 than Von Miller.

He was a pretty good forward. But don't you think he's a little old to switch to football?

ICON
02-18-2012, 09:42 AM
Hey guys, a Bills fan here. Congrats on a nice season (or an interesting one to say the least!) Can't tell you how hard I was rooting for you against the Steelers...what an awesome game and a great game plan by you guys.

Anyway, I wanted to try and get some more info as to how you guys used Von Miller this year. I see he is listed as your Sam 'backer? How much of that did he play and to what effect?

The reason I ask is because with Buffalo's switch to the 40 front this year, I'd love to find a guy who could potentially play OLB for us in the base defense, then be an effective pass rusher when the time comes. I'm looking at guys like Nick Perry and Melvin Ingram at #10 or maybe a guy like Cam Johnson down the road a ways.

Clearly none of those guys have Miller's ability, but I think the way today's NFL is going, it's all about defending the pass and the more rushers you can put out there the better.

Any info would be great...thanks!

A hybrid linebacker with a multitude of pass-rush moves and wearing No. 58 will be tormenting the quarterback for years to come, Good luck trying to find a player like this .

lonestar
02-18-2012, 10:00 AM
The Jet's play was amazing. But that is not a bullrush. He origanally tries to get the edge and then comes back inside, get's the O-lineman off balance and basically just punks him. That was a talent play. A bullrush is where you stick your helmet into the O-lines chin and drive him back, (works good for a change-up with speed guys because you already have the O-line thinking laterally) the ultimate goal of a bullrush is to cause disruption more than it is to get a sack. If you had to put this play into a "category" of moves it would probably be a pull-push, but it's not really that either.

I do remember his spin move, it was brilliant and he barely even got touched because he was so quick at it. But then we never saw it again. Imagine if he developes this.

I love Von as much as anybody here, he's got HOF written all over him, but he is very raw. He will get even better then he is now.

On one last note, I think he was much better in the run game then people give him credit for. He made a ton of plays for a SAM in the run game. My take on Von is that we need a middle backer and strong run-support DE (Ayers) who does the thinking and clean up work. When you have a talent like Von you don't want him to think too awfully much, you need to just unleash him and tell him to go play. Other guys need to be solid and make a lot of plays. Von's job needs to be making BIG plays.

Late in the season he got beat a lot for big plays on passing downs because he was so intent to get to the passer they ran the ball right by him. I saw that a half dozen times in the last few games. Each time they picked up big yards.

That is something he will improve on with experience. But he was exploited, perhaps some of that was because of the broken hand he may have been over compensating.