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View Full Version : Denver could have over $50m of cap space in 2012


eddie mac
02-12-2012, 03:46 PM
If they want to use it that is.

The current projections have the Broncos accounting for just over $100m in salaries for 2012 for a projected $125m cap leaving them approx $25m in space.

As per Mike Florio though under the new CBA teams can carry over any remaining cap room from the previous season into the new cap year as long as they notify the league by 28th February. The Broncos left $27.88m of room on the table last year. So that would give them over $50m if Bowlen and the team want to use it.

It'll be interesting to see how much they want to progress down the FA route this year by the spending.

oubronco
02-12-2012, 03:48 PM
I see them having an offseason like last year and not going full tilt saving some money until they have to spend it in 2013

Baba Booey
02-12-2012, 03:49 PM
I hope they don't hand out any absurd deals, but there is certainly room to bring in some substantial talent.

eddie mac
02-12-2012, 03:51 PM
My main concern here is that we wont use the cap space from last year because 2012 isn't the 89% cap floor season, 2013 is, so Denver wont want to be carrying that amount of room over into 2013 when they have to spend 9/10 of it.

Forget part of the above because apparently the 89% salary cap floor season in 2013 is not based on adjusted cap numbers only the money available in that year.

DENVERDUI55
02-12-2012, 04:03 PM
Den could have 100 billion in cap room but it only matters if you use it. How much of cap are they required to spend?

maher_tyler
02-12-2012, 04:04 PM
I would like to see them cut ties with Goodman and bring in Mathis from Jax. Along with a nice DT and possibly a receiving TE.

eddie mac
02-12-2012, 04:10 PM
Den could have 100 billion in cap room but it only matters if you use it. How much of cap are they required to spend?

The 89% rule does not kick in until 2013. They can spend as little as they want this year.

extralife
02-12-2012, 04:13 PM
I remember Xanders or Elway or maybe that new scrub saying that they already have an operating budget from Bowlen. The fact that such a thing even exists makes me think that it is significantly below the cap; if not, why bother?

Drek
02-12-2012, 04:15 PM
I would like to see them cut ties with Goodman and bring in Mathis from Jax. Along with a nice DT and possibly a receiving TE.

Replacing Goodman with Mathis should be pretty close to cap neutral. Mathis isn't getting a big money deal coming off an ACL injury. But yes, I agree that he should be a priority, coupled with an early draft pick CB. This is a pretty good CB draft and we need to take the momentum we've built with hitting on a steal in Harris to turn the unit into a long term strength, not a weakness.

Couple that with stabilizing the MLB position and adding a three down DT and we're looking at a MUCH better team. We don't need to spend like drunken sailors, we just need to stop acting like the scrubs currently on our roster at key positions are good enough. They aren't and need to be replaced with younger, more athletic options.

Sign the following:

Rashean Mathis, CB
Dan Connor, MLB
Tom Zbikowski, SS/FS
Jason Jones, DT
Pat Sims, DT

All but Mathis are in their mid 20's, none are multi-year starters so all should come cheap. All are upgrades over what we have at their spots now. Then if we really want to flash some money around we can target it on someone like Carl Nicks, a very low risk, very high return OL addition who we could give a 7 year contract do and get our money's worth throughout the length of it.

maher_tyler
02-12-2012, 04:24 PM
Replacing Goodman with Mathis should be pretty close to cap neutral. Mathis isn't getting a big money deal coming off an ACL injury. But yes, I agree that he should be a priority, coupled with an early draft pick CB. This is a pretty good CB draft and we need to take the momentum we've built with hitting on a steal in Harris to turn the unit into a long term strength, not a weakness.

Couple that with stabilizing the MLB position and adding a three down DT and we're looking at a MUCH better team. We don't need to spend like drunken sailors, we just need to stop acting like the scrubs currently on our roster at key positions are good enough. They aren't and need to be replaced with younger, more athletic options.

Sign the following:

Rashean Mathis, CB
Dan Connor, MLB
Tom Zbikowski, SS/FS
Jason Jones, DT
Pat Sims, DT

All but Mathis are in their mid 20's, none are multi-year starters so all should come cheap. All are upgrades over what we have at their spots now. Then if we really want to flash some money around we can target it on someone like Carl Nicks, a very low risk, very high return OL addition who we could give a 7 year contract do and get our money's worth throughout the length of it.

I agree. Some how i forgot about MLB..that was probably our biggest weakness on D.

eddie mac
02-12-2012, 04:24 PM
I remember Xanders or Elway or maybe that new scrub saying that they already have an operating budget from Bowlen. The fact that such a thing even exists makes me think that it is significantly below the cap; if not, why bother?

It's a cash budget and you're probably right, it'll be below any available cap space.

eddie mac
02-12-2012, 04:27 PM
Read on Rotoworld today that we're high on Irving and he should get a shot at the starting MLB spot this year. We love his presence and potential apparently.

broncswin
02-12-2012, 04:35 PM
Read on Rotoworld today that we're high on Irving and he should get a shot at the starting MLB spot this year. We love his presence and potential apparently.

I really think if they would of had a normal Off season, Irving would have started...he was lost out there this year..watch him blossom next year. Bring the nasty back!!

Smilin Assassin
02-12-2012, 04:43 PM
I really think if they would of had a normal Off season, Irving would have started...he was lost out there this year..watch him blossom next year. Bring the nasty back!!

I wanna believe this SO bad....


But, the fact that he saw basically no time, even in reserve. I dunno.

RhymesayersDU
02-12-2012, 04:46 PM
Awesome! Getting my #18 jersey now!

enjolras
02-12-2012, 04:53 PM
Read on Rotoworld today that we're high on Irving and he should get a shot at the starting MLB spot this year. We love his presence and potential apparently.

They've been saying the same thing on various local radio stations. Apparently they wanted to treat 2011 as a red-shirt season for him to make sure he was fully over his injuries and to let him get some size on him.

I REALLY hope that's true.

Jay3
02-12-2012, 04:59 PM
The 89% rule does not kick in until 2013. They can spend as little as they want this year.

They may as well build up to it rather than find themselves having to massively increase. Go get Mario Williams.

Mogulseeker
02-12-2012, 05:01 PM
Can Dan Conner cover TEs?

strafen
02-12-2012, 05:12 PM
I hope they don't hand out any absurd deals, but there is certainly room to bring in some substantial talent.I think it was smart not to have spent money last year.
This time they know exactly what and where the needs are.
So let's how strong can they get with the money they've got...

eddie mac
02-12-2012, 06:32 PM
I hope to see major strides from Irving and J Thomas this year. We need a TE to step up and give Tebow an outlet.

eddie mac
02-12-2012, 06:33 PM
There also could be a lot more caproom in the offing if we decide that either Warren $4m or Goodman (not 100% on the acceleration of outstanding guarantees/bonus) are no longer in our plans.

Mogulseeker
02-12-2012, 06:38 PM
I hope to see major strides from Irving and J Thomas this year. We need a TE to step up and give Tebow an outlet.

An outlet wont help him if he doesn't check down.

Tebow never checked down. When he "should" have checked down, he usually just threw it way down field for the home run. Sometimes that helped us, but most of the time the passes fell incomplete.

bigbucks24
02-12-2012, 06:44 PM
Denver spent about 80% of the cap last year. What makes anyone believe that they will spend 120% of the cap this year?

eddie mac
02-12-2012, 06:44 PM
An outlet wont help him if he doesn't check down.

Tebow never checked down. When he "should" have checked down, he usually just threw it way down field for the home run. Sometimes that helped us, but most of the time the passes fell incomplete.

I should've included him in the major strides dept as well.LOL

Bronco Yoda
02-12-2012, 06:55 PM
Read on Rotoworld today that we're high on Irving and he should get a shot at the starting MLB spot this year. We love his presence and potential apparently.

Didn't he play in a couple games mid-season? What's his health status? He's going to have to gain a few pounds if he's going to hold up in the middle.

SoCalBronco
02-12-2012, 07:19 PM
I see them having an offseason like last year and not going full tilt saving some money until they have to spend it in 2013

As Ralph Lawler would say..."Bingo".

The cap floor does not come into effect until 2013, so Bowlen is going to keep the vast majority of that cash in his pocket....again.


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SoCalBronco
02-12-2012, 07:24 PM
Read on Rotoworld today that we're high on Irving and he should get a shot at the starting MLB spot this year. We love his presence and potential apparently.

That's a very diplomatic way of saying we're not spending ****.

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Cito Pelon
02-12-2012, 07:27 PM
As Ralph Lawler would say..."Bingo".

The cap floor does not come into effect until 2013, so Bowlen is going to keep the vast majority of that cash in his pocket....again.


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Vm4TG56KGZ4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I knew this was gonna come.

Have to wait and see if they actually do spend some money. Point acknowledged, but let's wait and see. There's some potentially nice FA's that might hit the market, so let's see if they jump on them, eh?

maher_tyler
02-12-2012, 07:46 PM
I knew this was gonna come.

Have to wait and see if they actually do spend some money. Point acknowledged, but let's wait and see. There's some potentially nice FA's that might hit the market, so let's see if they jump on them, eh?

Eventually you have to bring in some FAs..i'm hoping we make some nice upgrades on the D side of the ball. Hoping those rumors about Irving are right! Add some speed on offense at RB and WR.

Shananahan
02-12-2012, 08:52 PM
Everybody that wants to come crying at this news and acting like it's a bad thing and wringing their hands about it and badmouthing the front office are just too negative for me to deal with right now. No matter how you swing it, this isn't bad news. It could, however, be great news.

As much as the front office preached about reconnecting the fan base and rebuilding the team yadda yadda, they're on the hook to show something for it. The playoff win and success of the season might be a fluke to some people, but fans are going to want to see them build on it. I think the front office is obligated to spend some money, and it wouldn't surprise me at all to see a big time signing or two.

I tend to think they'll go Drek's route of signing a bunch of middle-tier FAs with youth and upside in order to fill out depth in the areas of need, allowing them to go BPA in the draft. Depending on who is available, they'll at least have the money to consider making a move on almost anyone.

JCMElway
02-12-2012, 08:53 PM
Don't forget we have Ty Warren coming back next year as well....

Shananahan
02-12-2012, 08:58 PM
I don't think anyone forgot, but how much can you reasonably expect anything from him at this point? Whatever he gives us is icing on the cake, I think.

Agamemnon
02-12-2012, 09:08 PM
50 million we won't spend...

theAPAOps5
02-12-2012, 09:39 PM
As Ralph Lawler would say..."Bingo".

The cap floor does not come into effect until 2013, so Bowlen is going to keep the vast majority of that cash in his pocket....again.


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Vm4TG56KGZ4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I was wondering if you had posted already!

As Xanders said in the end of season press conference and hundreds of times before. While the Salary cap may be $125 Million the Broncos operate under their own internal budget.

Since you can't spend over the cap one would think their internal budget is not $125 million. Seems Bowlen lost a lot of money on Shanny's bandaids, restaurant, and mega house! That and his business interests = no spending spree!

extralife
02-12-2012, 09:53 PM
tebowmania had to translate into some bucks. a home playoff game can't hurt either.

baja
02-12-2012, 09:55 PM
Denver was in the playoffs in a season when most of you said they would be lucky to win 4 games. Hell they beat a team many thought was a super bowl contender.

I ain't always about the money.

Just ask Jones or Snyder, their teams didn't even smell the playoffs.

SoCalBronco
02-12-2012, 10:02 PM
Denver was in the playoffs in a season when most of you said they would be lucky to win 4 games. Hell they beat a team many thought was a super bowl contender.

I ain't always about the money.

Just ask Jones or Snyder, their teams didn't even smell the playoffs.

Glad to see you back. :)

SoCalBronco
02-12-2012, 10:05 PM
I was wondering if you had posted already!

As Xanders said in the end of season press conference and hundreds of times before. While the Salary cap may be $125 Million the Broncos operate under their own internal budget.

Since you can't spend over the cap one would think their internal budget is not $125 million. Seems Bowlen lost a lot of money on Shanny's bandaids, restaurant, and mega house! That and his business interests = no spending spree!

At least next year he'll have to spend up to the cap floor (I think its like 89% or 94%) regardless of whether he wants to (or has the ability to). It is legally compelled, regardless of the success/failure of his business interests. Maybe that new rule will give him sufficient grounds to sell. One can hope.

lonestar
02-12-2012, 10:48 PM
If they want to use it that is.

The current projections have the Broncos accounting for just over $100m in salaries for 2012 for a projected $125m cap leaving them approx $25m in space.

As per Mike Florio though under the new CBA teams can carry over any remaining cap room from the previous season into the new cap year as long as they notify the league by 28th February. The Broncos left $27.88m of room on the table last year. So that would give them over $50m if Bowlen and the team want to use it.

It'll be interesting to see how much they want to progress down the FA route this year by the spending.


Why would they want to overspend in another rebuilding year?..

Me I'll take drafting well and resigning the few quality guys still on the team
after the McD purge, frankly not many worth keeping from the mikey regime era, but a few.

Then concentrating on finding some young (coming off of rookies contracts) talent in areas of need..

RB, DT x2, CB x2, Rush DE, MLB, SS, receiving TE that can actually block. Depth for OG and OT. Getting a quality WR would not hurt although the ones we have might be coming into "season" so to speak. Finding a mentoring QB might not hurt either..

I would not mind replacing DJ especially if he will not redo his contract paying anything in excess of 3 mill a year is nuts. IMO



I'll bet that we will see much like we did last year, picking up some solid FA without breaking the bank, folks that want to be with an up and coming TEAM.

We will be once again a run first team with some new wrinkles, one that plays solid hard defense and HOPEFULLY great ST placing a premium on ball control and field advantage..

so NO I do not see major money spent this year..

lonestar
02-12-2012, 10:54 PM
I was wondering if you had posted already!

As Xanders said in the end of season press conference and hundreds of times before. While the Salary cap may be $125 Million the Broncos operate under their own internal budget.

Since you can't spend over the cap one would think their internal budget is not $125 million. Seems Bowlen lost a lot of money on Shanny's bandaids, restaurant, and mega house! That and his business interests = no spending spree!

In some years we had as much as 20% of our cap setting in dead money..

BIG splash FAs that all turned out to be busts..

I do not recall one of them after the super blow years that was worth half the money we spent on them..

I do recall loads of them that were total flops. Carter, Ihop DT, head that list..

lonestar
02-12-2012, 11:03 PM
Denver was in the playoffs in a season when most of you said they would be lucky to win 4 games. Hell they beat a team many thought was a super bowl contender.

I ain't always about the money.

Just ask Jones or Snyder, their teams didn't even smell the playoffs.

Frankly I doubt if they ever will..

having the owner making player personnel decisions just screws up the TEAM, to many folks thinking they do not have to do what the coaches want them to do. Bad for locker room juju..

Now that davis is dead watch out for that team to become good again. They have loads of talent and if davis jr stays off the field and allows the GM and HC to do their thing they could be a HUGE issue in the future..

The AFC west always had a couple-three FUBARS going for it..

Davis interfering with the HC.
first marty then norv in SAN
KC with zero in NFL quality coaching
last but not least mikey DAFTING and player acquisitions.. Almost as bad as davis was..

Jones and Synder keep ****ing up the team chemistry..

SoCalBronco
02-12-2012, 11:04 PM
Actually, the truth is that Bowlen spent very few actual dollars in the last 10 years relative to the rest of the league. There may have been some dead money here and there, but considering there were only like 2 mega spending years in the ENTIRE DECADE, its hard to hide behind dead money. There's simply no way that two years of failed big spending could result in a situation where you have to spend nothing the other 7 or 8 years. If that was truly the case, Denver would have been hit with the same cap tidal wave that ruined Tennessee and San Francisco for extended periods. That never happened. It is true that Shanny had some big time flops, but that can't even begin to explain our spending practices for the vast majority of the decade. I've posted this dozens of times, but go ahead and look for yourself at the USA Today Salary Database and look where we were in the rankings year to year. We averaged somewhere right around 20th in spending for the decade (and that includes the two big spending years). If you spend at 20 and the guy gets you to around 14-16 (8-8/9-7), I'm not sure what t here is to complain about. Don't tie his hands and then complain when he's only overachieved the investment in small to moderate terms.

baja
02-12-2012, 11:22 PM
Actually, the truth is that Bowlen spent very few actual dollars in the last 10 years relative to the rest of the league. There may have been some dead money here and there, but considering there were only like 2 mega spending years in the ENTIRE DECADE, its hard to hide behind dead money. There's simply no way that two years of failed big spending could result in a situation where you have to spend nothing the other 7 or 8 years. If that was truly the case, Denver would have been hit with the same cap tidal wave that ruined Tennessee and San Francisco for extended periods. That never happened. It is true that Shanny had some big time flops, but that can't even begin to explain our spending practices for the vast majority of the decade. I've posted this dozens of times, but go ahead and look for yourself at the USA Today Salary Database and look where we were in the rankings year to year. We averaged somewhere right around 20th in spending for the decade (and that includes the two big spending years). If you spend at 20 and the guy gets you to around 14-16 (8-8/9-7), I'm not sure what t here is to complain about. Don't tie his hands and then complain when he's only overachieved the investment in small to moderate terms.

There you go again trying to make a coralation between money spent and wins.

Ask the NY Yankees how that works out.

NFLBRONCO
02-12-2012, 11:29 PM
Actually, the truth is that Bowlen spent very few actual dollars in the last 10 years relative to the rest of the league. There may have been some dead money here and there, but considering there were only like 2 mega spending years in the ENTIRE DECADE, its hard to hide behind dead money. There's simply no way that two years of failed big spending could result in a situation where you have to spend nothing the other 7 or 8 years. If that was truly the case, Denver would have been hit with the same cap tidal wave that ruined Tennessee and San Francisco for extended periods. That never happened. It is true that Shanny had some big time flops, but that can't even begin to explain our spending practices for the vast majority of the decade. I've posted this dozens of times, but go ahead and look for yourself at the USA Today Salary Database and look where we were in the rankings year to year. We averaged somewhere right around 20th in spending for the decade (and that includes the two big spending years). If you spend at 20 and the guy gets you to around 14-16 (8-8/9-7), I'm not sure what t here is to complain about. Don't tie his hands and then complain when he's only overachieved the investment in small to moderate terms.

I agree with this 100%

extralife
02-12-2012, 11:29 PM
Ask the NY Yankees how that works out.

it works out to the tune of them winning their division every year

NFLBRONCO
02-12-2012, 11:32 PM
There you go again trying to make a coralation between money spent and wins.

Ask the NY Yankees how that works out.


They are always a contender though

but.


They do win it all at times though so imo they think its worth it.

lonestar
02-12-2012, 11:35 PM
There you go again trying to make a coralation between money spent and wins.

Ask the NY Yankees how that works out.

there are always those that do not get it..

It is about TEAM in the NFL with genreally one or two mega stars on the TEAM and MOST of them are home grown and not imported.

Very few of the super bowl winners have bought the Lombardi with mercenaries..

The vast majority of them drafted well over several years and home grew those players, resigned the great and allowed the OK-good players to move on and then added a guy here or there to the mix..

NFLBRONCO
02-12-2012, 11:39 PM
Problem with going nuts in FA is your window is small to reap reward. You need instant chemistry good health. If it fails you have tons of dead money and back to square one with no options.

I wish Denver would sign a Vet at C G WR S work on DT QB CB MLB RB in draft and do it well next two years.

lonestar
02-12-2012, 11:44 PM
Actually, the truth is that Bowlen spent very few actual dollars in the last 10 years relative to the rest of the league. There may have been some dead money here and there, but considering there were only like 2 mega spending years in the ENTIRE DECADE, its hard to hide behind dead money. There's simply no way that two years of failed big spending could result in a situation where you have to spend nothing the other 7 or 8 years. If that was truly the case, Denver would have been hit with the same cap tidal wave that ruined Tennessee and San Francisco for extended periods. That never happened. It is true that Shanny had some big time flops, but that can't even begin to explain our spending practices for the vast majority of the decade. I've posted this dozens of times, but go ahead and look for yourself at the USA Today Salary Database and look where we were in the rankings year to year. We averaged somewhere right around 20th in spending for the decade (and that includes the two big spending years). If you spend at 20 and the guy gets you to around 14-16 (8-8/9-7), I'm not sure what t here is to complain about. Don't tie his hands and then complain when he's only overachieved the investment in small to moderate terms.


If you go back and look at all of mikeys day one daftees (rounds 1-3 from 1995-2005) only 5 of the some 45 resigned with DEN after or during their rookie contracts expired..
needed to fix an error
Wilson, Mobley, DJ. BTW the ONLY other day one picks he ever resigned were Neil, Pryce and Griese..

that is SIX out of 41 day one picks. Rounds 1-3.. from 1995 to 2008

I know during the time frame of 2002 and 06 in particular we were regularly hitting the cap and had $5-20 mil in dead cap space.. OR so it was reported locally. Not sure where USA got those numbers (link please) but the local guys IMO would have had better intel on it than USA.

I know every year some star was redoing his contract for us to get under the cap and sign some more FA's..

I do not remember one year before about 2008-9 that we did not spend like drunken sailors in a whorehouse, during FA signing period..

It was one of the major reasons mikey was fired, did you not get that memo?

baja
02-12-2012, 11:47 PM
it works out to the tune of them winning their division every year

Boston disagrees

Shananahan
02-12-2012, 11:57 PM
I don't think we have to go nuts just because there is cap room to do so, but I'd be upset if they didn't do everything they could to upgrade across the board if the price is right. I'd like to see them sign at least one RB, OL, DL, MLB and CB in FA, with one or two of them hopefully being proven, quality players.

maher_tyler
02-13-2012, 12:06 AM
I think the best we can hope for is one big signing. The rest of what we bring in will be guys like Bunk who underachieved..with a few more solid guys to fill some holes. We desperately need a MLB..no way is Mays starting again!

lonestar
02-13-2012, 12:08 AM
I don't think we have to go nuts just because there is cap room to do so, but I'd be upset if they didn't do everything they could to upgrade across the board if the price is right. I'd like to see them sign at least one RB, OL, DL, MLB and CB in FA, with one or two of them hopefully being proven, quality players.

Overall good post.. BUT if we sign any FA they all have to be proven QUALITY players otherwise it is wasted money..

Not asking for super studs, but they all have to be an uprgrade, over what we already have UNLESS they are brought in as depth.. and even then I would exect anyone brought in via FA to be pushing the starter..

lonestar
02-13-2012, 12:10 AM
I think the best we can hope for is one big signing. The rest of what we bring in will be guys like Bunk who underachieved..with a few more solid guys to fill some holes. We desperately need a MLB..no way is Mays starting again!

You think Bunkley underachieved?

Not sure what you were expecting but when he was out of the game they beat us with their running games like rented mules.. Even late in the season I saw him and Thomas a couple fo times harassing the QB..

Hardly a poor pick up..

Shananahan
02-13-2012, 12:14 AM
Overall good post.. BUT if we sign any FA they all have to be proven QUALITY players otherwise it is wasted money..

Not asking for super studs, but they all have to be an uprgrade, over what we already have UNLESS they are brought in as depth.. and even then I would exect anyone brought in via FA to be pushing the starter..
Well.... duh. That's why I specified with, 'upgrade across the board'.

Even if you're signing a guy for depth it should still be an upgrade, as he'll be replacing whatever depth you previously had.

SoCalBronco
02-13-2012, 12:14 AM
If you go back and look at all of mikeys day one daftees (rounds 1-3 from 1995-2005) only 5 of the 45 resigned with DEN after or during their rookie contracts expired..

I know during the time frame of 2002 and 06 in particular we were regularly hitting the cap and had $5-20 mil in dead cap space.. OR so it was reported locally. Not sure where USA got those numbers (link please) but the local guys IMO would have had better intel on it than USA.

I know every year some star was redoing his contract for us to get under the cap and sign some more FA's..

I do not remember one year before about 2008-9 that we did not spend like drunken sailors in a whorehouse, during FA signing period..

It was one of the major reasons mikey was fired, did you not get that memo?

I am speaking in actual dollars. I know there was some dead money, but it strains credulity to suggest that there were huge dead money issues every year. The point remains: If you only spend big 2 years out of say 9, that cannot explain a bare bones spending policy for the other 7 years. If it really was the dead money, we would have hit the SF/TEN tidalwave and we didn't. Bowlen was not a big spender in the 2000s. He simply wasn't. Its unclear why this was, although Footsteps probably has the best hypothesis that it has to do with issues relating to stadium finances etc. in the 90s etc. He once had a really fabulous and detailed post on this. Here is Footsteps post if you want to look at it:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2455289&postcount=54

I am going to provide you with a link to the USA Today Salary Database which tracked actual spending from 2000-2009 and the league wide rank. Here it is: http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/football/nfl/salaries/team/2007

Here is a link to my own analysis of this database and the spending patterns:
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3198873&highlight=dead#post3198873

Here is yet another link, which studied the 2004-2008 period and determined that Denver was 5th best in the league in "wins per dollar spent":

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3198873&highlight=dead#post3198873


It is you who didn't get the memo, so I'll let you have it now: Shanny was fired because he worked for a stupid, senile drunk old man who felt he needed to show he was "in control" and was manipulated by others in the organization who were ignorant of football issues and didn't appreciate what Mike brought to the table. Unfortunately, those people still lurk in the shadows of Dove Valley and are now making decisions based on bean-counting priorities. Now that Kaiser is gone, hopefully Bowlen will sell and go hide under a rock for the rest of his pathetic existence. I will never, ever forgive that piece of dog**** for how he treated Shanahan and Cutler. It's always someone else's fault. Look he's just .500, look he's a drunk, its not me, look over there. Bowlen is the Frank McCourt of the league, except more of a dick.

Shananahan
02-13-2012, 12:15 AM
I will never, ever forgive that piece of dog**** for how he treated Shanahan and Cutler. It's always someone else's fault.
This is rich.

enjolras
02-13-2012, 12:17 AM
You think Bunkley underachieved?

Not sure what you were expecting but when he was out of the game they beat us with their running games like rented mules.. Even late in the season I saw him and Thomas a couple fo times harassing the QB..

Hardly a poor pick up..

I think the implication was that Bunkley had underachieved previously which is why they were able to pick him up on the cheap (sure wish they had gone multi-year on that deal in hindsight :) ).

SoCalBronco
02-13-2012, 12:19 AM
This is rich.

I'm not seeing your point. I've admitted numerous times that Shanny has some real flaws (and Jay does as well), its just that their strengths vastly exceeded their flaws. That's not so with the old man.

lonestar
02-13-2012, 12:22 AM
I am speaking in actual dollars. I know there was some dead money, but it strains credulity to suggest that there were huge dead money issues every year. The point remains: If you only spend big 2 years out of say 9, that cannot explain a bare bones spending policy for the other 7 years. If it really was the dead money, we would have hit the SF/TEN tidalwave and we didn't. Bowlen was not a big spender in the 2000s. He simply wasn't. Its unclear why this was, although Footsteps probably has the best hypothesis that it has to do with issues relating to stadium finances etc. in the 90s etc. He once had a really fabulous and detailed post on this. Here is Footsteps post if you want to look at it:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2455289&postcount=54

I am going to provide you with a link to the USA Today Salary Database which tracked actual spending from 2000-2009 and the league wide rank. Here it is: http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/football/nfl/salaries/team/2007

Here is a link to my own analysis of this database and the spending patterns:
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3198873&highlight=dead#post3198873

Here is yet another link, which studied the 2004-2008 period and determined that Denver was 5th best in the league in "wins per dollar spent":

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3198873&highlight=dead#post3198873


It is you who didn't get the memo, so I'll let you have it now: Shanny was fired because he worked for a stupid, senile drunk old man who felt he needed to show he was "in control" and was manipulated by others in the organization who were ignorant of football issues and didn't appreciate what Mike brought to the table. Unfortunately, those people still lurk in the shadows of Dove Valley and are now making decisions based on bean-counting priorities. Now that Kaiser is gone, hopefully Bowlen will sell and go hide under a rock for the rest of his pathetic existence. I will never, ever forgive that piece of dog**** for how he treated Shanahan and Cutler. It's always someone else's fault. Look he's just .500, look he's a drunk, its not me, look over there. Bowlen is the Frank McCourt of the league, except more of a dick.


Do not have the time to digest all of this.. at this time..

but it clear you really had a man love for mikey the littel general or are you really mikey in drag?

ME I'll give Pat the benifit of the doubt since he gave mikeya free hand to bring another group of rings to DEN but failed because he was a moron on draft day.. Pat gave him everything he needed to do it but he failed without John E.. that is the only thing you can say mikey could not get it up with out John..

Still can't with the biggest spending owner in the NFL..

Glad the Putz is no longer FUBARing my team..

lonestar
02-13-2012, 12:25 AM
I think the implication was that Bunkley had underachieved previously which is why they were able to pick him up on the cheap (sure wish they had gone multi-year on that deal in hindsight :) ).

I have always liked bunkley even as far back as the draft.. I really wanted him a hell of a lot more than cutlet in 06 for that matter Hali..

would have take either in a heart beat over cutlet the whinny b****.. at least they were men..

As for a longer contract me also..

I think bunkley was complaecent in PHL and this was a wake up call for him.. I thought he had a damned fine season after coming off the injury..

Shananahan
02-13-2012, 12:27 AM
I'm not exactly sure thinking Shanahan was a putz who FUBARed the Broncos is the best way to lend credibility to your opinion.

maher_tyler
02-13-2012, 12:30 AM
You think Bunkley underachieved?

Not sure what you were expecting but when he was out of the game they beat us with their running games like rented mules.. Even late in the season I saw him and Thomas a couple fo times harassing the QB..

Hardly a poor pick up..

In Philly

DENVERDUI55
02-13-2012, 12:31 AM
I don't think anyone forgot, but how much can you reasonably expect anything from him at this point? Whatever he gives us is icing on the cake, I think.

Well I look at ne like Utah jazz. There fa s do nothing elsewhere.

SoCalBronco
02-13-2012, 12:33 AM
Bunkley was a pretty good pickup for this team. He's a pretty good run defender. If they could bring him back and Ty Warren is healthy they might have something decent there, with HAM as the third tackle (IMO, he'd be more effective as the 3rd DT rather than starting). From there, add another DT somewhere in the top 3-4 rounds so we can get some depth at the spot.

DENVERDUI55
02-13-2012, 12:34 AM
Denver was in the playoffs in a season when most of you said they would be lucky to win 4 games. Hell they beat a team many thought was a super bowl contender.

I ain't always about the money.

Just ask Jones or Snyder, their teams didn't even smell the playoffs.

What does any of that have to do with a broke cheap owner? Personally I would rather gave Snyder over a guy that rode a hof qb to mega profits and coverage to failing businesses.

DENVERDUI55
02-13-2012, 12:41 AM
Actually, the truth is that Bowlen spent very few actual dollars in the last 10 years relative to the rest of the league. There may have been some dead money here and there, but considering there were only like 2 mega spending years in the ENTIRE DECADE, its hard to hide behind dead money. There's simply no way that two years of failed big spending could result in a situation where you have to spend nothing the other 7 or 8 years. If that was truly the case, Denver would have been hit with the same cap tidal wave that ruined Tennessee and San Francisco for extended periods. That never happened. It is true that Shanny had some big time flops, but that can't even begin to explain our spending practices for the vast majority of the decade. I've posted this dozens of times, but go ahead and look for yourself at the USA Today Salary Database and look where we were in the rankings year to year. We averaged somewhere right around 20th in spending for the decade (and that includes the two big spending years). If you spend at 20 and the guy gets you to around 14-16 (8-8/9-7), I'm not sure what t here is to complain about. Don't tie his hands and then complain when he's only overachieved the investment in small to moderate terms.Dude we have been one if the worst drafting teams and that's this franchises demise.

SoCalBronco
02-13-2012, 12:48 AM
Dude we have been one if the worst drafting teams and that's this franchises demise.

I dont think we were one of the worst drafting teams. I don't think we were one of the best, either. At least during the last 5 years or so of the Shanny era, I think its fair to say we did above average on offense and below average on defense (in terms of the number of starting quality players).

ol#7
02-13-2012, 01:00 AM
I dont think we were one of the worst drafting teams. I don't think we were one of the best, either. At least during the last 5 years or so of the Shanny era, I think its fair to say we did above average on offense and below average on defense (in terms of the number of starting quality players).

Plus the fact that the best players on this team are still Shanny holdovers. I have never seen a more deluded fanbase in regards to what went down with Shanny or the amount of talent we ran out of town or where we were positioned prior to that happening.

Archer81
02-13-2012, 01:44 AM
Plus the fact that the best players on this team are still Shanny holdovers. I have never seen a more deluded fanbase in regards to what went down with Shanny or the amount of talent we ran out of town or where we were positioned prior to that happening.


When 30+ guys are removed from a team in a 2 year period and nearly none of them find work anywhere else, I find the bolded hard to believe. Unless you are referencing Cutler and Marshall.


:Broncos:

Beantown Bronco
02-13-2012, 07:42 AM
Everybody that wants to come crying at this news and acting like it's a bad thing and wringing their hands about it and badmouthing the front office are just too negative for me to deal with right now. No matter how you swing it, this isn't bad news.

How long have you been posting here?

Beantown Bronco
02-13-2012, 07:43 AM
Don't forget we have Ty Warren coming back next year as well....

The guy who hasn't had a healthy year since 2007? He's a waste of roster and cap space. Cut him........yesterday.

Beantown Bronco
02-13-2012, 07:45 AM
When 30+ guys are removed from a team in a 2 year period and nearly none of them find work anywhere else, I find the bolded hard to believe. Unless you are referencing Cutler and Marshall.


:Broncos:

To be fair, I'd be willing to bet that every team that goes through a coaching change could say the same thing. Even some teams that don't go through a coaching change could say this, when you consider the league average career length of 3 years.

maher_tyler
02-13-2012, 03:05 PM
Looks like we're in good shape. $50M under...

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/prime-cuts/slice/broncos-are-1-32nd-of-nfl-have-1-14th-of-the-leagues-cap-space

Archer81
02-13-2012, 03:09 PM
To be fair, I'd be willing to bet that every team that goes through a coaching change could say the same thing. Even some teams that don't go through a coaching change could say this, when you consider the league average career length of 3 years.


True.

It also says alot about Shanahan's ability as a coach, and it suddenly makes sense why Denver would start out hot and fade down the stretch. Just lacked the talented depth we needed to get into the playoffs and do something.

What might have been and all that.

:Broncos:

GoBroncos84
02-13-2012, 04:20 PM
I know it is a pipe dream, but I would love to see us nab a starting corner (Brent Grimes, Cortland Finnegan, or Brandon Carr), an upgrade to the offensive line (Carl Nicks, Evan Mathis, or Ben Grubbs), and just for kicks... Mario Williams. Seeing how much the Giants have invested in a deep rotation on D-Line and how their pass rush has garnered them 2 titles in the last few years, I would love to add him. Staring Mario and Elvis at end in base package, then putting Mario and Ayers at DT with Von Doom on the edges in the nickel package... that is just too awesome


$50 million could definitely get it done, but my expectations are much lower. I don't expect us to spend much this offseason.

Dedhed
02-13-2012, 04:41 PM
I know it is a pipe dream, but I would love to see us nab a starting corner (Brent Grimes, Cortland Finnegan, or Brandon Carr), an upgrade to the offensive line (Carl Nicks, Evan Mathis, or Ben Grubbs), and just for kicks... Mario Williams. Seeing how much the Giants have invested in a deep rotation on D-Line and how their pass rush has garnered them 2 titles in the last few years, I would love to add him. Staring Mario and Elvis at end in base package, then putting Mario and Ayers at DT with Von Doom on the edges in the nickel package... that is just too awesome


$50 million could definitely get it done, but my expectations are much lower. I don't expect us to spend much this offseason.ON a more realistic note I'd go after Pouha, Ross, and Jason Jones. Maybe add Ted Ginn just for a hoot.

Hamrob
02-13-2012, 04:46 PM
So, here we are once again.

We had this discussion in another thread where some of you contended that the Broncos need to build through the draft, and I pointed out that the BRONCOS are CHEAP!

You can say whatever you want...but, this team is not willing to spend the money that's needed to turn it around. We are carrying over the 2nd most amount of money from last year. What that means...only the Jags spent less money last year...then our cheap/broke Broncos.

The fact that they have so many of you...buying into this crap...that we must build through the draft is amazing. Talk about gullible! This team needs to improve through any means available to them. The problem is...they don't have the money to compete.

Hear that bird? Cheap, cheap, cheap!!!! That's today's Broncos folks!

lonestar
02-13-2012, 05:01 PM
I dont think we were one of the worst drafting teams. I don't think we were one of the best, either. At least during the last 5 years or so of the Shanny era, I think its fair to say we did above average on offense and below average on defense (in terms of the number of starting quality players).

What did he do in the first nine years?.. 1995 we had no day one picks..


2004 - Denver Broncos
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami (Fla.)
2 41 Tatum Bell RB Oklahoma State
2 54 Darius Watts WR Marshall
3 85 Jeremy LeSueur CB Michigan

2003 - Denver Broncos
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 20 George Foster T Georgia
2 51 Terry Pierce LB Kansas State

2002 - Denver Broncos
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii
2 51 Clinton Portis RB Miami (Fla.)
3 96 Dorsett Davis DT Mississippi State

2001 - Denver Broncos
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 24 Willie Middlebrooks CB Minnesota
2 51 Paul Toviessi DE Marshall
3 87 Reggie Hayward DE Iowa State

2000 - Denver Broncos
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 15 Deltha O'Neal CB California
2 40 Ian Gold LB Michigan
2 45 Kenoy Kennedy SAF Arkansas
3 70 Chris Cole WR Texas A&M

1999 - Denver Broncos
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 31 Al Wilson MLB Tennessee
2 58 Montae Reagor DE Texas Tech
2 61 Lennie Friedman C Duke
3 67 Chris Watson CB Eastern Illinois
3 93 Travis McGriff WR Florida
1998 - Denver Broncos
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 30 Marcus Nash WR Tennessee
2 61 Eric Brown SS Mississippi State
3 91 Brian Griese QB Michigan

1997 - Denver Broncos
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 28 Trevor Pryce DT Clemson
3 67 Dan Neil G Texas

1996 - Denver Broncos
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 15 John Mobley OLB Kutztown
2 44 Tory James DB Louisiana State
3 65 Detron Smith RB Texas A&M
3 78 Mark Campbell DT Florida

Loads of pro bowlers there huh?

just how many of those guys wound up resigning with us after their rookie contract expired.