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View Full Version : Cogratulations to Peyton Manning's brother!


Taco John
02-05-2012, 09:21 PM
That was a hell of a game!

Bronco Rob
02-05-2012, 09:30 PM
You can't spell "Elite" with out Eli.

NFLBRONCO
02-05-2012, 09:30 PM
I wonder what SD thinks now

Spider
02-05-2012, 09:32 PM
Is Eli better then Peyton ???

NFLBRONCO
02-05-2012, 09:35 PM
Is Eli better then Peyton ???

Playoffs yes

Overall even

bronco militia
02-05-2012, 09:37 PM
Eli is better in the clutch than Peyton and Brady

Pony Boy
02-05-2012, 09:40 PM
Peyton will finish his career with one ring and Eli may win a couple more before he's done.

maher_tyler
02-05-2012, 09:43 PM
Is Eli better then Peyton ???

I don't think so. Peyton is a ****in genius...had they hung onto Edgerin James i think they would have won more titles than they did.

Miss I.
02-05-2012, 09:53 PM
I don't know, I would still say Peyton is technically, but....

I wouldn't mind seeing this updated:
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/M4dTKckmLwE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

with Eli wearing
http://nfl.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/p12266192dt.jpg

It's only too bad it is not more obvious it occurred in Indy...;D

SonOfLe-loLang
02-05-2012, 10:09 PM
Is Eli better then Peyton ???

I find arguments like these to be beyond pointless. There are tons of factors that go into winning football games. It's not that simple.

They are both great

SonOfLe-loLang
02-05-2012, 10:11 PM
That commercial is still one of my favs.

Broncobiv
02-05-2012, 10:15 PM
Is Eli better then Peyton ???

Good grief...let's not overreact, people! Peyton is one of the greatest QB's ever. He carried his team to MANY playoff appearances on his own, and he only won one of them because for the most part, his defenses sucked!

Eli has won 2 SB's. He played great during this past season. But in both of his SB runs (and specially in the first SB), his dense was DOMINANT. Eli is a "good" QB. But he is NOWHERE in the class of Peyton. Peyton can carry an ENTIRE NFL team on his shoulders regardless of the talent on either side of the ball. Want proof? What record did they finish at this year? Eli, while winning 2 SB's, has relied on the strength of his defense.

While that is totally fine, it gives you an answer to your original question: Is Eli as good as Peyton? HELL NO! Rings do not always equal talent. Peyton is one of the game's greatest...EVER. Eli is a mere footnote in the list of historic NFL QB's.

Chris
02-05-2012, 10:20 PM
Good grief...let's not overreact, people! Peyton is one of the greatest QB's ever. He carried his team to MANY playoff appearances on his own, and he only won one of them because for the most part, his defenses sucked!

While that is totally fine, it gives you an answer to your original question: Is Eli as good as Peyton? HELL NO! Rings do not always equal talent. Peyton is one of the game's greatest...EVER. Eli is a mere footnote in the list of historic NFL QB's.

For what it's worth Peyton, I agree with you.

DENVERDUI55
02-05-2012, 10:20 PM
Dude I don't feel like it but I bet a search of eli on here will find a bunch of ARM chair qb calling him a bust and he sucks.

strafen
02-05-2012, 10:28 PM
I don't know, I would still say Peyton is technically, but....

I wouldn't mind seeing this updated:
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/M4dTKckmLwE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

with Eli wearing
http://nfl.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/p12266192dt.jpg

It's only too bad it is not more obvious it occurred in Indy...;DI loved it!

maher_tyler
02-05-2012, 10:28 PM
Good grief...let's not overreact, people! Peyton is one of the greatest QB's ever. He carried his team to MANY playoff appearances on his own, and he only won one of them because for the most part, his defenses sucked!

Eli has won 2 SB's. He played great during this past season. But in both of his SB runs (and specially in the first SB), his dense was DOMINANT. Eli is a "good" QB. But he is NOWHERE in the class of Peyton. Peyton can carry an ENTIRE NFL team on his shoulders regardless of the talent on either side of the ball. Want proof? What record did they finish at this year? Eli, while winning 2 SB's, has relied on the strength of his defense.

While that is totally fine, it gives you an answer to your original question: Is Eli as good as Peyton? HELL NO! Rings do not always equal talent. Peyton is one of the game's greatest...EVER. Eli is a mere footnote in the list of historic NFL QB's.

I agree with this whole post but mainly the bold part. Peyton is a offensive coordinator playing QB!

Taco John
02-05-2012, 10:29 PM
Dude I don't feel like it but I bet a search of eli on here will find a bunch of ARM chair qb calling him a bust and he sucks.

On every forum, really. Eli has quietly carved out a pretty nice career in the shadow of his brother. Is it a HOF career? I'm not sure I'd say that - but given that Peyton Manning is a shoe-in first ballot, it's hard to keep Eli out at this point, no?

maher_tyler
02-05-2012, 10:30 PM
On every forum, really. Eli has quietly carved out a pretty nice career in the shadow of his brother. Is it a HOF career? I'm not sure I'd say that - but given that Peyton Manning is a shoe-in first ballot, it's hard to keep Eli out at this point, no?

I agree with this also. I do believe he has earn a spot in the HoF.

strafen
02-05-2012, 10:38 PM
On every forum, really. Eli has quietly carved out a pretty nice career in the shadow of his brother. Is it a HOF career? I'm not sure I'd say that - but given that Peyton Manning is a shoe-in first ballot, it's hard to keep Eli out at this point, no?Two championship rings should seal it for him.
Yes, he's a HoFer in mi mind...

enjolras
02-05-2012, 10:41 PM
He's earned the HOF. He's won two superbowls in which he made two CLUTCH plays on last minute game-winning drives. That escape and then pass to Tyree in the first superbowl, and now that pass to Manningham tonight. I can't imagine he's not in.

Broncobiv
02-05-2012, 10:45 PM
Yep...Eli will now make it into the HOF. But SHOULD he? Ha...probably not.

Like I've said before, winning rings should not automatically = HOF. Peyton is a HOF QB...NO DOUBT. But Eli? Oh good God no! (even though just because he has 2 SB's to his name will probably get him there). ugh!~

But this is a whole other debate...the "HOF Committee sucks" debate!

Spider
02-05-2012, 10:46 PM
He's earned the HOF. He's won two superbowls in which he made two CLUTCH plays on last minute game-winning drives. That escape and then pass to Tyree in the first superbowl, and now that pass to Manningham tonight. agreed

Spider
02-05-2012, 10:50 PM
Good grief...let's not overreact, people! Peyton is one of the greatest QB's ever. He carried his team to MANY playoff appearances on his own, and he only won one of them because for the most part, his defenses sucked!

Eli has won 2 SB's. He played great during this past season. But in both of his SB runs (and specially in the first SB), his dense was DOMINANT. Eli is a "good" QB. But he is NOWHERE in the class of Peyton. Peyton can carry an ENTIRE NFL team on his shoulders regardless of the talent on either side of the ball. Want proof? What record did they finish at this year? Eli, while winning 2 SB's, has relied on the strength of his defense.

While that is totally fine, it gives you an answer to your original question: Is Eli as good as Peyton? HELL NO! Rings do not always equal talent. Peyton is one of the game's greatest...EVER. Eli is a mere footnote in the list of historic NFL QB's.

Dont you think the title of this thread warranted that question ? And it isnt the Rings , it is the way he won those rings......Hell both wins were very Elwayesque as in come back drives late in the game to win .......Sorry you dont see that

Miss I.
02-05-2012, 10:50 PM
Yep...Eli will now make it into the HOF. But SHOULD he? Ha...probably not.

Like I've said before, winning rings should not automatically = HOF. Peyton is a HOF QB...NO DOUBT. But Eli? Oh good God no! (even though just because he has 2 SB's to his name will probably get him there). ugh!~

But this is a whole other debate...the "HOF Committee sucks" debate!

okay why is Peyton?

Why isn't Eli?

leaving aside the ring issue, curious about the above and what do you think makes someone HoF?

Broncobiv
02-05-2012, 10:51 PM
He's earned the HOF. He's won two superbowls in which he made two CLUTCH plays on last minute game-winning drives. That escape and then pass to Tyree in the first superbowl, and now that pass to Manningham tonight. I can't imagine he's not in.

OMFG...you're allowing a guy into the HOF because of 2 plays? The first one was basically a Hail Mary during a drive in which he has several throws that bordered on divine intervention to not get picked. And the second...YES it was a good throw, but to allow him into the HOF because of it? PLEASE!!

It was one throw! You don't get into the HOF because of one throw! God dammit people...stop exaggerating!!

Spider
02-05-2012, 10:52 PM
I find arguments like these to be beyond pointless. There are tons of factors that go into winning football games. It's not that simple.

They are both great

Sure it is , who besides bret Farve makes those throws in both SB wins ?
Eli has alot less talent on offense then his Brother did , and it took last minute Heroics to win ........
I didnt ask if Eli was smarter then Peyton , Just asked if he was better , after all he is living in his brothers shadow

Doggcow
02-05-2012, 11:49 PM
Maaan, as a younger brother, I'm excited for Eli, I'd be talking so much ****.

We would end with a fistfight, no doubt.

Doggcow
02-05-2012, 11:50 PM
Sure it is , who besides bret Farve makes those throws in both SB wins ?
Eli has alot less talent on offense then his Brother did , and it took last minute Heroics to win ........
I didnt ask if Eli was smarter then Peyton , Just asked if he was better , after all he is living in his brothers shadow

Eli is better in the clutch, that's for sure.

ol#7
02-06-2012, 12:14 AM
Everybody forgets the way they used to talk about Elway as a 'borderline' HOF QB BEFORE winning the SB.

Eli plays in NY and has won two of the most memorable SB's ever. Joe Namath agrees Eli gets into the HOF based on that.

UberBroncoMan
02-06-2012, 01:29 AM
Peyton is the better QB...but when it's all said and done it looks like Eli will be the one with the most rings.

BowlenBall
02-06-2012, 02:23 AM
Peyton is the better QB...but when it's all said and done it looks like Eli will be the one with the most rings.

Peyton is a first-ballot hall of famer, even if he never plays another down. I don't think that's under dispute.

Eli still needs another 2 or 3 three years of solid production to lock the HOF down, but this last Super Bowl puts him pretty close as is.

I know -- it's pretty unbelievable that we're saying this about Eli Manning, but the son of a b**** has earned it now.

I'm just glad I'm not Cooper Manning.

IHaveALight
02-06-2012, 04:02 AM
On every forum, really. Eli has quietly carved out a pretty nice career in the shadow of his brother. Is it a HOF career? I'm not sure I'd say that - but given that Peyton Manning is a shoe-in first ballot, it's hard to keep Eli out at this point, no?

When I saw your title I thought, the man has stepped out of the shadow give him some respect and call him by name. Hell if he gets another one, Peyton's going to be in the shadow.

Also for those HOF speculators, looks like most agree that Eli is in. I'm wondering about Archie now. Hasn't he been thought of before in the HOF discussion, and does the legacy of the sons get Archie in now?

Gort
02-06-2012, 04:17 AM
Peyton is a first-ballot hall of famer, even if he never plays another down. I don't think that's under dispute.

Eli still needs another 2 or 3 three years of solid production to lock the HOF down, but this last Super Bowl puts him pretty close as is.

I know -- it's pretty unbelievable that we're saying this about Eli Manning, but the son of a b**** has earned it now.

I'm just glad I'm not Cooper Manning.

i don't see how Eli is even in discussion for the HOF at this point. it's absurd to say he's a lock. the guy took a 9-7 team to the SB this year. big whooptydoo!

there is nothing GREAT about his career so far. winning a superbowl or two is not, and should not be, admission criteria by themselves. the championships are supposed to be only relevant if a guy is on the bubble at the end of his career. unless throwing for 300 yards a game in this era when 1) defenders aren't allowed to defend against the pass, and 2) QBs aren't allowed to be hit is somehow now considered "elite" QB play. it's funny, but i seem to recall all season being told that throwing for 300 yards a game was the bare minimum expectation for a QB in the NFL.

why don't we just start enshrining everybody on the roster of every superbowl winner? wouldn't that make it easier on the voters?

insert facepalm smiley here

uplink
02-06-2012, 05:36 AM
I don't think Eli and the Giants get to the Superbowl if Denver had not released Kyle Orton.

Without Orton, the chefs would have lost to GB and GB would have likely been undefeated going into the playoffs. The confidence factor and momentum would have been shifted more towards GB in the playoffs and I don't see the Giants beating them. GB just lost their dazzle at the end of the year after loosing to Kyle.

BroncoInferno
02-06-2012, 05:43 AM
Eli is good, no doubt, but I still contend that he is VASTLY overrated. Just last season he led the league with 25 picks, for godsake. And I give him basically zero credit for the first Super Bowl. He rode the coattails of his defense and running game during that playoff run after having a horrible year (23 TDs 20 picks). That being said, he's a good QB and does seem to have more of a knack in the clutch than his brother. But Peyton is still by far the superior QB. Eli is just on a better all around team.

BroncoBeavis
02-06-2012, 05:47 AM
48% completion percentage his first season. Guy shouldn't even be allowed to carry water for the NYG.

BroncoBeavis
02-06-2012, 05:49 AM
Eli is good, no doubt, but I still contend that he is VASTLY overrated. Just last season he led the league with 25 picks, for godsake.

So Eli's just Brett Favre with more rings. :)

Spider
02-06-2012, 06:17 AM
48% completion percentage his first season. Guy shouldn't even be allowed to carry water for the NYG.

1 st season being key

BroncoBeavis
02-06-2012, 06:36 AM
1 st season being key


Yeah yeah. And Madonna still "has it"

You're like the old senile dude in the nursing home where whatever he says its just easiest to smile and nod.

Meck77
02-06-2012, 06:43 AM
Didn't know Eli had a brother. Peyton huh?

loborugger
02-06-2012, 06:45 AM
Shouldn't this thread be titled...

Congratulations to Cooper Manning's little brother.

:)

DENVERDUI55
02-06-2012, 06:48 AM
He will get in hall. 2 sb, playing in ny, and his name are enough.

Beantown Bronco
02-06-2012, 06:49 AM
If you consider Brady to be one of the 3 best QBs in NFL History, as almost all HOF voters do, then you have to vote in the one QB who is 2-0 against him in Super Bowls.

He's undefeated in SBs and has done it against an undefeated team and another team that was favored.

He's got TWO SB MVP awards. Are there any two time SB MVPs that are NOT in the HOF?

MortonToMoses
02-06-2012, 06:51 AM
Good grief...let's not overreact, people! Peyton is one of the greatest QB's ever. He carried his team to MANY playoff appearances on his own, and he only won one of them because for the most part, his defenses sucked!

Eli has won 2 SB's. He played great during this past season. But in both of his SB runs (and specially in the first SB), his dense was DOMINANT. Eli is a "good" QB. But he is NOWHERE in the class of Peyton. Peyton can carry an ENTIRE NFL team on his shoulders regardless of the talent on either side of the ball. Want proof? What record did they finish at this year? Eli, while winning 2 SB's, has relied on the strength of his defense.

While that is totally fine, it gives you an answer to your original question: Is Eli as good as Peyton? HELL NO! Rings do not always equal talent. Peyton is one of the game's greatest...EVER. Eli is a mere footnote in the list of historic NFL QB's.

That kind of logic in not permitted on this board, good sir. Wins are directly attributable to QB play, nothing else.

Gort
02-06-2012, 06:59 AM
If you consider Brady to be one of the 3 best QBs in NFL History, as almost all HOF voters do, then you have to vote in the one QB who is 2-0 against him in Super Bowls.

He's undefeated in SBs and has done it against an undefeated team and another team that was favored.

He's got TWO SB MVP awards. Are there any two time SB MVPs that are NOT in the HOF?

that sort of logic devalues membership in the HOF.

Eli has played 121 games and he's already a lock for the HOF? the same Eli that has an 82.1 career QBR? i don't think winning championships should be the sole criterion. i'm sorry, call me old fashioned. maybe we should just elect everyone who plays for the NYJ, NYG, and Patsies. that would certainly make it easier on the voters, wouldn't it?

Beantown Bronco
02-06-2012, 07:04 AM
that sort of logic devalues membership in the HOF.

Eli has played 121 games and he's already a lock for the HOF? the same Eli that has an 82.1 career QBR? i don't think winning championships should be the sole criterion. i'm sorry, call me old fashioned. maybe we should just elect everyone who plays for the NYJ, NYG, and Patsies. that would certainly make it easier on the voters, wouldn't it?

If "my" logic devalues membership in the HOF, then your logic clearly devalues a QB's role vs that of the others on the team. Eli played a GREAT game yesterday and had a great season overall. He carried the team this year when the defense wasn't all that great most of the time.

You talk about his 82 QB rating. Well, look at his career as a whole. It's gotten far better the last few years than the first 4 years. He hasn't had a QB rating below 86 since 2006. You're penalizing him for his first few years.

He's playing the best football of his career now (not a surprise, since he's in the middle of his prime years) and is most likely going to keep playing at this level for awhile (barring injury of course).

BroncoInferno
02-06-2012, 07:07 AM
Jim Plunkett has two SB rings, and he is not in, nor should he be. Manning has had too many mediocre seasons in his career (including the aforementioned 25 INT debacle just last season) for me to consider him a lock. But he still has 4 or 5 more years to solidify his position. He's still a second tier guy to me, though.

Gort
02-06-2012, 07:08 AM
If "my" logic devalues membership in the HOF, then your logic clearly devalues a QB's role vs that of the others on the team. Eli played a GREAT game yesterday and had a great season overall. He carried the team this year when the defense wasn't all that great most of the time.

You talk about his 82 QB rating. Well, look at his career as a whole. It's gotten far better the last few years than the first 4 years. He hasn't had a QB rating below 86 since 2006. You're penalizing him for his first few years.

He's playing the best football of his career now (not a surprise, since he's in the middle of his prime years) and is most likely going to keep playing at this level for awhile (barring injury of course).

Eli in 2010 had a QBR of 85.3
Eli in 2008 had a QBR of 86.4

this is not elite. it's adequate. but it's not elite. it's not great. he's not great. he needs another 5+ solid years before anyone talks HOF with him. SB championships shouldn't matter. Charles Haley has 5 SB rings. does that make him a HOF'er? i don't think so.

Beantown Bronco
02-06-2012, 07:13 AM
he needs another 5+ solid years before anyone talks HOF with him.

Ummmm, you're too late. People already are. People who vote BTW. Though it'll be moot anyway, because he most likely will have another 5+ years of solid play, at the very least. He's clearly improving each year and playing better football now than ever before and has a solid supporting cast around him that should remain relatively intact for awhile.

SB championships shouldn't matter. Charles Haley has 5 SB rings. does that make him a HOF'er? i don't think so.

Again, if you can't tell the difference in value between SB rings earned by non QBs and SB rings....and MVPs....earned by QBs, then I just don't know what to tell you. How many MVP votes did Haley have?

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Gort
02-06-2012, 07:16 AM
Ummmm, you're too late. People already are. People who vote BTW. Though it'll be moot anyway, because he most likely will have another 5+ years of solid play, at the very least. He's clearly improving each year and playing better football now than ever before and has a solid supporting cast around him that should remain relatively intact for awhile.



Again, if you can't tell the difference in value between SB rings earned by non QBs and SB rings....and MVPs....earned by QBs, then I just don't know what to tell you. How many MVP votes did Haley have?

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

NY Giants fans don't count as people.

you overvalue the superbowl. by alot. it's the HOF, not the Hall of Superbowl Winning QBs. Jim Kelly lost 4 straight superbowls. shouldn't that disqualify him as being an un-clutch loser?

also Dilfer won a SB. until yesterday, that meant he was exactly the same as Eli.

TonyR
02-06-2012, 07:16 AM
I find arguments like these to be beyond pointless. There are tons of factors that go into winning football games. It's not that simple.

They are both great

Agree. Most noteworthy is that Peyton has never had a defense remotely approaching the quality of the Giants' defenses on both Super Bowl teams Eli won with.

iforgotmypassword
02-06-2012, 07:21 AM
This is a good argument. Nobody argues that the Giants were all Eli THIS YEAR do they??? I personally hate Eli, just hate him. I don't know why, I just always have. But he certainly has quietly put together a monster season, he probably had a better all-around season than any player in the league this year - 110 passer rating (second only to A-rod), a heroic NFC championship game in which he got his ass kicked but continued to stand in the pocket and deliver, and then a super bowl win and MVP award.

If I'm a Giant fan I love Eli for that NFC championship game as much as anything. Eli is Peyton with a lot less brains, a little less arm, and whole lot more scrap.

Beantown Bronco
02-06-2012, 07:22 AM
Agree. Most noteworthy is that Peyton has never had a defense remotely approaching the quality of the Giants' defenses on both Super Bowl teams Eli won with.

I'd disagree with that. Go back and look at their defense the year Eli won the SB. They only gave up 16 pts on average in the 4 postseason games. They peaked at the right time. And to be honest, their regular season stats were very similar to the Giants defensive stats this season.

bendog
02-06-2012, 07:32 AM
On every forum, really. Eli has quietly carved out a pretty nice career in the shadow of his brother. Is it a HOF career? I'm not sure I'd say that - but given that Peyton Manning is a shoe-in first ballot, it's hard to keep Eli out at this point, no?

The only qb w/ 2 rings not in is Jim Plunkett, and Eli's got over 27000 yds in 8 years.

Taco John
02-06-2012, 07:58 AM
When I saw your title I thought, the man has stepped out of the shadow give him some respect and call him by name. Hell if he gets another one, Peyton's going to be in the shadow.

Also for those HOF speculators, looks like most agree that Eli is in. I'm wondering about Archie now. Hasn't he been thought of before in the HOF discussion, and does the legacy of the sons get Archie in now?

The title was made tongue in cheek.

TonyR
02-06-2012, 08:33 AM
I'd disagree with that. Go back and look at their defense the year Eli won the SB. They only gave up 16 pts on average in the 4 postseason games. They peaked at the right time. And to be honest, their regular season stats were very similar to the Giants defensive stats this season.

I assume by "Eli" you mean "Peyton". And while your post is fair I think the Giants' defenses both years were considerably more talented and better overall. This year the Giants were without multiple defensive starters for much of the year and got healthy late in the season.

BroncoBeavis
02-06-2012, 09:01 AM
Eli in 2010 had a QBR of 85.3
Eli in 2008 had a QBR of 86.4

this is not elite. it's adequate. but it's not elite. it's not great. he's not great. he needs another 5+ solid years before anyone talks HOF with him. SB championships shouldn't matter. Charles Haley has 5 SB rings. does that make him a HOF'er? i don't think so.

Elway had a career QBR of 79.9. Some of his best years (according to QBR) look a lot like those two you just highlighted.

Overall, QBR sucks though. Over-emphasizes completion percentage, which makes WCO-style QB's look better than they are.

Gort
02-06-2012, 09:05 AM
Elway had a career QBR of 79.9. Some of his best years (according to QBR) look a lot like those two you just highlighted.

Overall, QBR sucks though. Over-emphasizes completion percentage, which makes WCO-style QB's look better than they are.

i don't like the QBR much either, but for comparing similar QBs from the same era, it's ok.

for example, Brady vs. Brees... it works.

Brady vs. Rapistburger however, it doesn't work.

Brady vs. Fouts, it doesn't work.

etc.

Spider
02-06-2012, 09:09 AM
Agree. Most noteworthy is that Peyton has never had a defense remotely approaching the quality of the Giants' defenses on both Super Bowl teams Eli won with.

That isnt the point , the defense wasnt making those plays that eli did

Kaylore
02-06-2012, 09:11 AM
Playoffs yes

Overall even

No.

and No.

BroncoBeavis
02-06-2012, 09:11 AM
i don't like the QBR much either, but for comparing similar QBs from the same era, it's ok.

for example, Brady vs. Brees... it works.

Brady vs. Rapistburger however, it doesn't work.

Brady vs. Fouts, it doesn't work.

etc.

But Brady and Rapistburgler are the same era, just different schemes. I guess that's kinda what I'm saying. It gives bonus points to teams that do more possession passing instead of running the ball.

TonyR
02-06-2012, 09:14 AM
That isnt the point , the defense wasnt making those plays that eli did

I'm not taking anything away from Eli. I just don't think he's better than Peyton just because he's won more Super Bowls.

BroncoBen
02-06-2012, 10:13 AM
I wonder what SD thinks now

No kidding... wasn't it the Mannings who didn't want to play in San Diego ?

But still the Chargers didn't have to cave in to the demands.

2KBack
02-06-2012, 10:27 AM
I find it funny how up in arms people are about Eli being discussed as a a future HOF.

This board livesd to flip flop on how much credit or blame the QB gets for success and failure. I even see a few people that argued Tebow was the reason we started winning this season, while at the same time giving the rest of the NY team credit for Eli's success. Bronco fans are arguing QB statistics, when the greatest QB to suit up for Denver was judged on wins and 4th quarter magic more than stats. Eli wins, and as we saw this season more than any other (in history) he has 4th quarter magic. It's sad how little credit he gets. Not for 1 or 2 passes in the superbowl, but for his hand in those teams even being in the superbowl. If you are in position to make huge clutch plays in the suberbowl, and you make them, multiple times, of course you are in the HOF discussion.

BroncoBeavis
02-06-2012, 11:08 AM
Unless Eli's career falls off a cliff from here- he's going to the hall.

bendog
02-06-2012, 11:50 AM
No kidding... wasn't it the Mannings who didn't want to play in San Diego ?

But still the Chargers didn't have to cave in to the demands.

the only demand was "don't draft me cause you are losers."

Apparently, the senior Manning did not like what he heard. League sources had been saying for days that the Manning camp had reservations about playing for the Chargers because of concerns about the organization's inability to win.

The Chargers have had only four winning seasons in the last 20 years, including none since 1995, and the perception is that members of the front office and coaching staff could be lame ducks if the team doesn't show significant improvement after finishing 4-12 last season.

The likelihood of a dramatic turnaround seems remote, considering
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20040422-9999-1s22chargers.html

boltaneer
02-06-2012, 12:14 PM
The fact that he has two SB MVPs is kind of a joke.

The defense carried both of the Giants Super Bowl wins over the Patriots. Both years, the Patriots offense looked nearly unstoppable but the Giants made their offense look average both times. That is especially impressive in this era of heavy offense.

However, unless there is a real standout player, the MVP usually defaults to the QB because you can't give an award to the entire defense.

As much as I dislike Eli, I admire the Giants front office. They know how to build a defense and never stop drafting pass rushers. I love watching that defense get after quarterbacks.

Willynowei
02-06-2012, 12:15 PM
Peyton is the better quarterback/talent, yes.

But does anyone remember the year that we went 12-4 and beat the patriots in the playoff w/ the Champ bailey pick?

our defense was pretty terrifying that year and after a full three quarters of smacking Eli Manning in the mouth and shutting his team down, he somehow single handedly beat us in the 4th quarter.

He is one of those guys that performs at a significantly higher level during crunch time, that counts for something. He doesn't always get the credit either, even last night, he made a few throws where Collinsworth kept praising the receiver for the catch when the throw was x1000 times more difficult. Anyone whose played receiver knows that if the QB leads you perfectly its not a hard catch even if its in traffic. Manningham had two shots at perfect deep balls, he should've caught both, instead he caught one, good for him since it was enough to win the game.

I would definitely take him over all but 3 QB's in the NFL (factoring in the Peyton Injury).

troya900
02-06-2012, 12:24 PM
Peyton is the better quarterback/talent, yes.

But does anyone remember the year that we went 12-4 and beat the patriots in the playoff w/ the Champ bailey pick?

our defense was pretty terrifying that year and after a full three quarters of smacking Eli Manning in the mouth and shutting his team down, he somehow single handedly beat us in the 4th quarter.

He is one of those guys that performs at a significantly higher level during crunch time, that counts for something. He doesn't always get the credit either, even last night, he made a few throws where Collinsworth kept praising the receiver for the catch when the throw was x1000 times more difficult. Anyone whose played receiver knows that if the QB leads you perfectly its not a hard catch even if its in traffic. Manningham had two shots at perfect deep balls, he should've caught both, instead he caught one, good for him since it was enough to win the game.

I would definitely take him over all but 3 QB's in the NFL (factoring in the Peyton Injury).

That never should have happened. If I'm thinking of the same game you are talking about the reffing that game was utter BS and I remember being livid for a few days after. I recall some BS phantom block in the back call where the guy doesn't even touch him and also remember some Giants receiver stepping out of bounds and then caught a pass and the dumbass refs didn't throw a flag. That game was complete homecooking and any Broncos fans using that BS as proof of Eli's "greatness" should be ashamed, he was given the damn game by the refs. (Still pissed off)

Willynowei
02-06-2012, 12:46 PM
That never should have happened. If I'm thinking of the same game you are talking about the reffing that game was utter BS and I remember being livid for a few days after. I recall some BS phantom block in the back call where the guy doesn't even touch him and also remember some Giants receiver stepping out of bounds and then caught a pass and the dumbass refs didn't throw a flag. That game was complete homecooking and any Broncos fans using that BS as proof of Eli's "greatness" should be ashamed, he was given the damn game by the refs. (Still pissed off)

I don't remember the refereeing in that game at all.

What i do remember was how many times he took a clean hit from our blitzing linebackers and John Lynch.

It looked like a won game for us, we beat them up and down the field.

bendog
02-06-2012, 12:49 PM
The fact that he has two SB MVPs is kind of a joke.

The defense carried both of the Giants Super Bowl wins over the Patriots. Both years, the Patriots offense looked nearly unstoppable but the Giants made their offense look average both times. That is especially impressive in this era of heavy offense.

However, unless there is a real standout player, the MVP usually defaults to the QB because you can't give an award to the entire defense.

As much as I dislike Eli, I admire the Giants front office. They know how to build a defense and never stop drafting pass rushers. I love watching that defense get after quarterbacks.

He left a red mark. Sorry, but he did.

Tombstone RJ
02-06-2012, 12:57 PM
He's earned the HOF. He's won two superbowls in which he made two CLUTCH plays on last minute game-winning drives. That escape and then pass to Tyree in the first superbowl, and now that pass to Manningham tonight. I can't imagine he's not in.

I disagree, he has not earned a HoF spot because of 2 plays. Yes, he has two championships but it's not like those teams won because of his play. They won because he made a few plays and both of those plays--arguably--were due to spectacular catches rather than great throws, although last night's throw was excellent, it still required a huge play by the WR.

Eli is what he is, a very good QB who made some big plays when he had to. Peyton on the other hand is just a different animal altogether when it comes to the QB position. Peyton is definitely HoF material.

bendog
02-06-2012, 01:02 PM
Well ... he has 20 more TD passes and about 1000 yards on Rapesburger, and they came into the league in the same year .... so if his career isn't on HOF trajectory, you gotta come up with a rational excuse other than "it's just about two throws in two games." just saying.

Tombstone RJ
02-06-2012, 01:05 PM
Well ... he has 20 more TD passes and about 1000 yards on Rapesburger, and they came into the league in the same year .... so if his career isn't on HOF trajectory, you gotta come up with a rational excuse other than "it's just about two throws in two games." just saying.

I guess I'm saying if his career ended right now, I'm not sure he's HoF material. However he does play for the NYGs and NOT the Broncos so yah, he's probably getting in even if he never takes another snap.

Beantown Bronco
02-06-2012, 01:07 PM
Eli's stats in the 2007 and 2012 SB runs:

63% completions for 2073 yds, 15 TDs and only 2 INTs and a QB rating over 100.

But let's pretend he was only involved in two great plays that were solely the result of spectacular catches.

bendog
02-06-2012, 01:11 PM
I guess I'm saying if his career ended right now, I'm not sure he's HoF material. However he does play for the NYGs and NOT the Broncos so yah, he's probably getting in even if he never takes another snap.

I agree. I mean if his career ended yesterday, he wouldn't have the stats, which is why Plunkett is denied. But as a Giant, he'd be in. He's passed for over 27000 yards in 8 years. That's a HOF trajectory, and he has point that people who thought otherwise were dissing him.

I mean personally I hate Rapesburger and hope he launches himself from his bike into a concrete pillar sans helmet, and hope that w/o fear of karma. But, the guy's an elite qb who, unless he implodes, will be in HOF. And Manning's stats are better than his. Manning's thrown a ton more picks, though.