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TheReverend
01-30-2012, 03:13 PM
Let's try and get some and look at this off-season and go point by point over what is going to happen and how our favorite football team is going to look in 2012.

If you don't want to read anything pertaining to this subject, please at least read the following statement:

Last year was an evaluation year to see what players on the current roster fit what EFX wanted to do offensively, defensively and according to their general football philosophy. We saw this manifest itself MULTIPLE times from rotating players in different positions on the depth chart to trading away and outright cutting veterans at certain positions so we could evaluate the younger players behind them. Despite being in an "evaluation year", this team went from the worst team in the NFL the year prior (when you factor SoS) to AFCW Champions and its first playoff win in 6 years.


Now let's look at what's going to happen in this coming off-season

Roster additions:

We will definitely be adding players at CB, MLB, IOL, RB, WR

We will probably be adding players at DT, DE, S, TE

I expect the majority of these roster moves to be strictly depth and competition moves, but I do expect 2-3 "blue chip" players to hit the roster this off-season which should make a dramatic effect on the players around them.

On top of adding some key vets and more vet leadership, we can expect to see some pretty substantial improvements from a young roster coming off a lockout season:

All of last years rookies will now have a full off-season of OTAs. Time in the system for the game to slow down for them and to make dramatic mental leaps, as well as more repetition being coached into them.

Areas I expect to see massive upgrades in current personnel:

WR - Demaryius will be healthy. Decker should be healthy. These two can both finally not only get a full off-season worth of work and coaching, but have time to establish good chemistry with Tim. Our WRs lead the NFL in drops per attempt, and I expect to see that dramatically improve this year for the aforementioned reasons. (Side note: It's my hope we also add a proven vet receiver with a known work ethic that can teach these two how to properly prepare at this level)

OL - Franklin played very well when you look at the wealth of his season and also showed some pretty dramatic improvement from game one to the end of the season. That being said, this unit has LOADS of room to improve. As is, we have Ryan Harris back and ready to compete. I'm hopeful we add a premier G to really solidify the unit moving forward, but as is the experience in this system should go a long ways with a corps of pretty talented young guys.

QB - Only 16 starts under his belt and 1.5 off-seasons and neither one involved taking reps of any significance with the 1s. He's had no stability as of yet in the offensive game plan as it's been an evolving system (not blaming anyone, it is what it is). Has one of, if not the best work ethic in the entire NFL. Has the closest physical parallel, a HoF'er, and the perfect potential mentor to him pledged to work with him during the off-season.

The entire offense:

McCoy will now have a full off-season to scheme to our teams strengths, incorporate a truly multi-dimensional offense, more trust to his QB, and better, healthy, more experienced players to execute it.

Defensively:

I expect to see leaps and bounds of improvement in

Von Miller - who will not only mentally be light years ahead of where he was last year, but now has a DC who as a former LBer has a history of getting the very best out of his LB'ers (apply this to DJ Williams as well)

Carter - excelled at a cerebral position his rookie year past expectations. The first step kills at the S position, to be able to excel a couple steps behind while diagnosing the play is going to provide a dramatic contrast to build off of a successful rookie season (apply the same to Rahim Moore. I expect him to be able to provide an impact next season)

And especially our front seven as a whole as we've now made a dramatic improvement at the DC position.

Also, it should be noted that we have a bonus asset uplifting the team as a whole: Tim's work ethic. Having the leader of your team spend so much time doing everything he can to improve his game absolutely has an effect on the players around him. Odds of something half-assing practice, OTAs, the weight room, film study, etc become dramatically reduced. Infectious work ethic and a desire to succeed is something we need and should also play a dramatic role on the team moving forward and potential FAs (I'd love to nab under-achieving Aaron Ross because of this and our HC's background as a former secondary coach. Could finally get him to play up to his talent level)

broncosteven
01-30-2012, 03:15 PM
No duh!

TheReverend
01-30-2012, 03:37 PM
Also notable:

Home playoff win
Shanahan off the books
Orton's contract gone (and an extra 2.5 mill saved from the cut)
Dat Tebow money

I expect to have a considerably more flexible budget and see a team that's able to be more aggressive in FA than it has in a decade.

vancejohnson82
01-30-2012, 03:49 PM
Also notable:

Home playoff win
Shanahan off the books
Orton's contract gone (and an extra 2.5 mill saved from the cut)
Dat Tebow money

I expect to have a considerably more flexible budget and see a team that's able to be more aggressive in FA than it has in a decade.

This is what I am most interested to see. Sick and tired of our organization going through other teams trash heaps to build units

schaaf
01-30-2012, 03:56 PM
Nice writeup. Rep when I get on my laptop,

For Free Agency I would love to get Dan Connor (or any LB that can come in and and start) and some more bargain FA to help build depth. I'm hoping we can get 1 blue chip player and 2-3 others that can fight for starting positions. Hopefully Dawk stays one more year but even if he does it will probably be an injury riddled season due to his age.

Defense- IMO, MLB and CB are our biggest needs followed by Safety and DT. Champ has a couple more years in him and we have good depth but we don't have anyone else that won't get completely picked apart. Carter looks like a keeper at Safety and it's looking like we will need someone beside him whether it be Bruton improving, Dawkins coming back or bringing someone in. Like I said MLB could be our biggest need for the whole team. Mays got worse as the season went on and he proved he was nothing more than a backup. Irving could move up after a full offseason but we will definitely bring someone to compete with him. I like having DJ and Von starting and hopefully we can keep Woody and Haggan around. As for the D-line I think we have long term starters at DE with Ayers and Doom and for DT, Bunkley could become our long term, we need someone to provide some pressure from the DT position.

Offense- Our Offensive Line was at times inconsistent but I see this unit staying pretty much the same, I have a feeling they are going to let Franklin and Beadles battle it out and hopefully Ryan Harris can return to pre injury form and start. I could see our starting line for Week 1 looking like Clady-Franklin-Walton-Kuper-Harris with Beadles providing quality depth at many positions. We will be bringing in two QB's. My guess is drafting one and a FA. But I think Tim will be starting week 1. At RB we need one more body, Moreno could be a perfect compliment to Mcgahee IF he can stay healthy, I would like a speedy RB but Fox likes bigger backs. We need more production out of our TE position, hopefully Julius Thomas can improve and become a receiving threat, Daniel Fells is good at receiving and blocking but not great at either. I also have no reason to believe Virgil Green won't continue to improve. WR could be our weakest position on offense, DEmaryius has shown that he could be a legit #1 receiver. Decker did nothing after about the sixth week that made me think he'll ever be better than a long term #3 receiver (I did like his blocking though). I expect Eddie to be gone to DC. I would love to get a receiver that can provide speed out of the backfield and underneath like a Percy Harvin. But I can keep dreaming.

Special Teams- Prater and Colquitt should be around for at least 10 years and our all world Lomg Snapper is all world.

I think EFX have done a very good job of building a solid base to build upon, we are average in a lot of positions but we are young in a lot of areas too, it will only get better from here.

Sorry for the short choppy sentences/thoughts. I hate posting in my phone

DENVERDUI55
01-30-2012, 03:56 PM
Also notable:

Home playoff win
Shanahan off the books
Orton's contract gone (and an extra 2.5 mill saved from the cut)
Dat Tebow money

I expect to have a considerably more flexible budget and see a team that's able to be more aggressive in FA than it has in a decade.

Tebow should of bailed Pat out of money problems and now he can try to make his franchise one of the more respected again. Drafting Tebow was genious from a business move.

gyldenlove
01-30-2012, 04:07 PM
I expect to get a really good read on our 2nd and 3rd year players. The players who were drafted with Tebow and the players who were drafted last year both suffered a lot from the scheme and coaching changes and the shortened offseason - I think we will get a better read on who remains from those 2 drafts this offseason.

Before the season I really liked Decker as a player to break out like Marshall did in his 2nd season, but he had a lot of concentration drops and I thought he had a lot of problems getting and maintaining separation against man coverage. Thomas if he can stay healthy should be a huge boost, he hasn't had an offseason yet to get into the offense because of his injury his rookie year and the lockout plus injury last season.

I think we will see someone brought in at the G position, it may not be a star name but certainly someone who at least in the short term can challenge for a starting position.

I wouldn't be surprised to see us bring in a potential starter at CB and FS in free agency, both positions need to be upgraded and while I know EFX wants to build via the draft, I think they have shown already that when the bring in players they like veterans who are generally a bit cheaper and can provide impact from day 1 but maybe only for a year or two.

barryr
01-30-2012, 04:45 PM
Most thought the Broncos would not reach 6 wins this season before it started, so the Broncos winning 8 and the division, not to mention winning a playoff game, was way beyond what was expected.

I am hopeful this franchise has done enough of signing crap and wrapping it in nice looking paper and pretending answers are being solved. Last year was better in that regard that is for sure.

broncosteven
01-30-2012, 05:51 PM
Nice writeup. Rep when I get on my laptop,

For Free Agency I would love to get Dan Connor (or any LB that can come in and and start) and some more bargain FA to help build depth. I'm hoping we can get 1 blue chip player and 2-3 others that can fight for starting positions. Hopefully Dawk stays one more year but even if he does it will probably be an injury riddled season due to his age.

Defense- IMO, MLB and CB are our biggest needs followed by Safety and DT. Champ has a couple more years in him and we have good depth but we don't have anyone else that won't get completely picked apart. Carter looks like a keeper at Safety and it's looking like we will need someone beside him whether it be Bruton improving, Dawkins coming back or bringing someone in. Like I said MLB could be our biggest need for the whole team. Mays got worse as the season went on and he proved he was nothing more than a backup. Irving could move up after a full offseason but we will definitely bring someone to compete with him. I like having DJ and Von starting and hopefully we can keep Woody and Haggan around. As for the D-line I think we have long term starters at DE with Ayers and Doom and for DT, Bunkley could become our long term, we need someone to provide some pressure from the DT position.

Offense- Our Offensive Line was at times inconsistent but I see this unit staying pretty much the same, I have a feeling they are going to let Franklin and Beadles battle it out and hopefully Ryan Harris can return to pre injury form and start. I could see our starting line for Week 1 looking like Clady-Franklin-Walton-Kuper-Harris with Beadles providing quality depth at many positions. We will be bringing in two QB's. My guess is drafting one and a FA. But I think Tim will be starting week 1. At RB we need one more body, Moreno could be a perfect compliment to Mcgahee IF he can stay healthy, I would like a speedy RB but Fox likes bigger backs. We need more production out of our TE position, hopefully Julius Thomas can improve and become a receiving threat, Daniel Fells is good at receiving and blocking but not great at either. I also have no reason to believe Virgil Green won't continue to improve. WR could be our weakest position on offense, DEmaryius has shown that he could be a legit #1 receiver. Decker did nothing after about the sixth week that made me think he'll ever be better than a long term #3 receiver (I did like his blocking though). I expect Eddie to be gone to DC. I would love to get a receiver that can provide speed out of the backfield and underneath like a Percy Harvin. But I can keep dreaming.

Special Teams- Prater and Colquitt should be around for at least 10 years and our all world Lomg Snapper is all world.

I think EFX have done a very good job of building a solid base to build upon, we are average in a lot of positions but we are young in a lot of areas too, it will only get better from here.

Sorry for the short choppy sentences/thoughts. I hate posting in my phone

I would almost prefer to see them move DJ inside and get a Will, DJ played well when Allen had him in the middle and he can cover. It would be a bonus if Irving can win the MLB job but I am not counting on it.

The one thing I saw in the top 4 Playoff teams was a mean MFer at MLB who could intimidate.

Move DJ inside, get a Will who is physical and get a CB DT and Safety and the D will sort it self out.

On O I would upgrade LG, C via Draft and find a Vet WR who can catch better than Decker and can show the others how to be a Vet.

Skill wise on O I would like to see them get a TE who can be a threat down the seam, they seemed to like Fells early in the year then he disappeared until the playoffs. We need an RBOTF too, Knowgain is worthless other than for dump offs and McGahee is too old for the # of carries they give him. Again if JJ develops then bonus but he didn't do much to show he could beat out Ball.

It should be a fun draft this year.

Jesterhole
01-30-2012, 06:42 PM
Nice read.

Our biggest priorities from where I stand are: DT, S, OG/C, LB, CB.

So, so, so, so, sooooo tired of having a patchwork interior D-line. Please, let's get dominate force we can plug in there. Warren is on the wrong side of 30 and hadsn't played, who knows what dude has left?

Safety is a big concern. Dawkins is done or nearly there. Morris looked bad most of the year. Carter was OK in spot duty, but we need to bring in two people capable of starting. At some point Champ moves over to this spot.

Mogulseeker
01-30-2012, 07:02 PM
lol at everyone just writing off Rahim Moore.

Dr. Broncenstein
01-30-2012, 07:11 PM
lol at everyone just writing off Rahim Moore.

Kind of like the team did until they literally had no other choice?

vancejohnson82
01-30-2012, 07:25 PM
lol at everyone just writing off Rahim Moore.

I had really high hopes for both Carter and Moore...but Moore was really awful this year, even taking it from the "he's only a rookie" perspective.

Carter has showed some pretty good signs that he can grow into at the very least, a serviceable starter. It would have been devestating to watch both of these guys flop. Fingers still crossed for Moore, but I don't see it happening for him. Hope he proves me wrong.

I wouldn't mind seeing Champ move over at some point, but he still has 2-3 years left as a shutdown corner. I wouldnt want to waste him back there when CB is still a huge need for the squad.

We need a MLB too....Jarret Johnson and D'Qwell Jackson are intersting but I'm not in love with either of them when it comes to pass coverage which is where we need the help...Mays obviously was just not good enough in that aspect

Franklin was a nice surprise and, although I think we need some depth at OL, I don't think we are in bad shape up front. We've got a good group of young, solid players that should only get better.

On offense, I would like to take a look at Laurent Robinson and Robert Meachem...we have a pretty good set of big WRs in Decker and Bey Bey...wouldnt mind another slot guy in there, especially if Royal isn't coming back (although I think he is). Depending on how the TEs are projected as developing as pass catchers, I think we could take a look at Fred Davis if he comes at the right price. Also, bring in a vet QB because what we will have left on the roster just wouldn't be right to start the season with.

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 07:14 AM
My dream off-season would be:

Carl Nicks (hands down my top priority)
Reggie Wayne (could do WONDERS with Demaryius the way Marvin did with him)
Mario Williams (DL becomes our top unit instantly... talk about a turn over events)
Dan Connor (though not as talented, he's still the heady, tough, smart linebacker that we've lacked since Wilson)
Aaron Ross (our coaching and Tebow's work ethic combined with a fresh start could turn him into what he should be)

And then Devon Still, Stephon Gilmore, Brandon Boykin, and Dan Herron via the draft.

At that point we go from a subpar talented but over-achieving team to perhaps the most talented team in the league.

jhns
01-31-2012, 07:27 AM
My dream off-season would be:

Carl Nicks (hands down my top priority)
Reggie Wayne (could do WONDERS with Demaryius the way Marvin did with him)
Mario Williams (DL becomes our top unit instantly... talk about a turn over events)
Dan Connor (though not as talented, he's still the heady, tough, smart linebacker that we've lacked since Wilson)
Aaron Ross (our coaching and Tebow's work ethic combined with a fresh start could turn him into what he should be)

And then Devon Still, Stephon Gilmore, Brandon Boykin, and Dan Herron via the draft.

At that point we go from a subpar talented but over-achieving team to perhaps the most talented team in the league.

Is there really a chance of getting Williams and Nicks? Is there talk that they won't be back on their current teams or is this just you hoping they aren't resigned? I would love to get those two. I hate looking at FAs this soon though. The large majority of good ones, aren't leaving their current teams.

BroncoBen
01-31-2012, 07:46 AM
I expect to have a considerably more flexible budget and see a team that's able to be more aggressive in FA than it has in a decade.

This I am not too sure about, from the end of the season press conference, I recall hearing John Fox talk about how the Broncos have a 'Internal' salary cap they intend to work with.

This sounds like just because there is a NFL Salary cap of X doesn't mean they will spend X, more like they intend to be under and save money.

There has been talk for years that Bowlen is Cash strapped, doesn't have the cash in hand.

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 07:47 AM
Is there really a chance of getting Williams and Nicks? Is there talk that they won't be back on their current teams or is this just you hoping they aren't resigned? I would love to get those two. I hate looking at FAs this soon though. The large majority of good ones, aren't leaving their current teams.

Yes. I absolutely didn't and wouldn't mention any guys I don't think will hit the FA market (hence no Brandon Carr, Brent Grimes, etc).

Carl Nicks will hit the market because:

1. The Saints other FAs: Drew Brees, Colston, Tracy Porter, Robert Meachem (*and that's just to name a few high profile ones).

2. Jahri Evans, their other guard, is one of if the not the highest paid guard in the NFL as is.

Mario Williams (probably the least likely of the options. Either he or Foster will be tagged) will hit the market because:

1. Texans other high-profile FAs: Arian Foster, Chris Myers

2. Wade's defense didn't skip a beat in his absence, and Connor Barwin and Brooks Reed both proved to be outstanding supplementary pass-rushers

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 07:48 AM
This I am not too sure about, from the end of the season press conference, I recall hearing John Fox talk about how the Broncos have a 'Internal' salary cap they intend to work with.

This sounds like just because there is a NFL Salary cap of X doesn't mean they will spend X, more like they intend to be under and save money.

There has been talk for years that Bowlen is Cash strapped, doesn't have the cash in hand.

I know and addressed the specific reasons our own internal budget will be higher in that very same post. Reference this again:

Also notable:

Home playoff win
Shanahan off the books
Orton's contract gone (and an extra 2.5 mill saved from the cut)
Dat Tebow money

I expect to have a considerably more flexible budget and see a team that's able to be more aggressive in FA than it has in a decade.

vancejohnson82
01-31-2012, 07:49 AM
My dream off-season would be:

Carl Nicks (hands down my top priority)
Reggie Wayne (could do WONDERS with Demaryius the way Marvin did with him)
Mario Williams (DL becomes our top unit instantly... talk about a turn over events)
Dan Connor (though not as talented, he's still the heady, tough, smart linebacker that we've lacked since Wilson)
Aaron Ross (our coaching and Tebow's work ethic combined with a fresh start could turn him into what he should be)

And then Devon Still, Stephon Gilmore, Brandon Boykin, and Dan Herron via the draft.

At that point we go from a subpar talented but over-achieving team to perhaps the most talented team in the league.

I don't think we would have a shot at Williams or Wayne....Connor is interesting but is going to be overpaid, hopefully somewhere else. I like everything else listed and I think its a bit more realistic. Especially Nicks

The Joker
01-31-2012, 07:53 AM
Nicks will hit the market I'd guess.

Saints gave their other Guard, Jahri Evans, the biggest deal a guard has ever gotten a couple of years back. I doubt they can afford what Nicks is worth on top of that, especially with Brees likely to get a massive deal very soon too.

I don't think Mario Williams is going anywhere though. He looked like he was going to be an absolute animal playing OLB in Wade Phillips' defense before his injury. The Texans should have a real shot next year once they get Schaub back, I expect they'll do everything to make sure Williams is part of that run.

Rev, you high on any of the FA DT's this year?

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 07:59 AM
Rev, you high on any of the FA DT's this year?

Yes. I'm pretty high on Broderick Bunkley and Marcus Thomas. :)

Otherwise, no. The FA DT market really only consists of depth guys. Why pay to bring in someone new there when we have those guys already in town?

Exception: If Calais Campbell hits the market... which I SINCERELY doubt he will.

strafen
01-31-2012, 08:06 AM
This is what I am most interested to see. Sick and tired of our organization going through other teams trash heaps to build units

That's what your boy McDaniels philosophy in building teams was, was it not?
Remember Drek saying those awful moves were for adding depth? :rofl:

vancejohnson82
01-31-2012, 08:09 AM
That's what your boy McDaniels philosophy in building teams was, was it not?
Remember Drek saying those awful moves were for adding depth? :rofl:

yea, because Shanahan NEVER did this

its OK...you weren't around up until 3 years ago, so I can understand how you might not know much about how this organization has operated

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 08:10 AM
That's what your boy McDaniels philosophy in building teams was, was it not?
Remember Drek saying those awful moves were for adding depth? :rofl:

yea, because Shanahan NEVER did this

its OK...you weren't around up until 3 years ago, so I can understand how you might not know much about how this organization has operated

Will both of you shut up?

This is a good thread and derailing it with years old conversations that aren't even relevant anymore is both stupid and pointless.

Bronco Rob
01-31-2012, 08:12 AM
lol at everyone just writing off Rahim Moore.


Lest we forget........



Rahim Moore

Good morning bronco fam I appreciate you guys welcoming me with open arms this have been the best rookie experience. We had are ups n downs but you guys stuck by us trough it all you guys are the best. It looks like I'm going to be here for a while I had my ups n downs here went from starting to getting sick missing games n being replace getting my job back lol but this off season I'm coming back n I swear I'm coming back bigger, faster n smarter my 3rd day of training camp Brian Dawkins told me that I'm a special safety n I will be great one day...





:thumbs:

vancejohnson82
01-31-2012, 08:15 AM
Will both of you shut up?

This is a good thread and derailing it with years old conversations that aren't even relevant anymore is both stupid and pointless.

get off of your soapbox Rev ...point taken, but you've been known to derail plenty

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 08:16 AM
get off of your soapbox Rev ...point taken, but you've been known to derail plenty

None worth a ****. Negged for trolling a quality thread.

Chris
01-31-2012, 08:24 AM
poo.

Eldorado
01-31-2012, 08:30 AM
My dream off-season would be:

Carl Nicks (hands down my top priority)
Reggie Wayne (could do WONDERS with Demaryius the way Marvin did with him)
Mario Williams (DL becomes our top unit instantly... talk about a turn over events)
Dan Connor (though not as talented, he's still the heady, tough, smart linebacker that we've lacked since Wilson)
Aaron Ross (our coaching and Tebow's work ethic combined with a fresh start could turn him into what he should be)

And then Devon Still, Stephon Gilmore, Brandon Boykin, and Dan Herron via the draft.

At that point we go from a subpar talented but over-achieving team to perhaps the most talented team in the league.

Who sits? Ayers or doom?

strafen
01-31-2012, 08:35 AM
None worth a ****. Negged for trolling a quality thread.Just because you've created this thread doesn't make it a quality thread.
What a joke!

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 08:36 AM
Who sits? Ayers or doom?

Neither really "sits" when you look at it in terms of snaps as opposed to starts.

Mario is quite clearly a 3 down stud, Ayers can rotate on heavy look run downs, and shift inside in some nickel passing downs.

I'd say the only person who loses actual playing time is Jason Hunter

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 08:37 AM
Just because you've created this thread doesn't make it a quality thread.
What a joke!

Criticises without arguing any of the dozens of points? Check

Troll elsewhere loser.

Old Dude
01-31-2012, 08:45 AM
Actually, Rev, I agree with about 95% of your take in this thread.

The things I question:

1. Whether Denver would spend the cash to bring in a receiver like Reggie Wayne. I think it's going to be very hard to attract "elite" veteran WRs to this team, given that it seems so geared towards the run. That's going to remain true even if Tebow develops as a passer, because that's just part of Fox-ball. I think the Broncos are going to have to build the receiver corps through the draft (or less established FAs).

2. I don't know about Carter. But I am definitely not on the Moore boat and I'll be surprised if he survives training camp. I dearly hope he proves me wrong.

Beantown Bronco
01-31-2012, 08:50 AM
Actually, Rev, I agree with about 95% of your take in this thread.

The things I question:

1. Whether Denver would spend the cash to bring in a receiver like Reggie Wayne. I think it's going to be very hard to attract "elite" veteran WRs to this team, given that it seems so geared towards the run. That's going to remain true even if Tebow develops as a passer, because that's just part of Fox-ball. I think the Broncos are going to have to build the receiver corps through the draft (or less established FAs).

Actually, Reggie Wayne is the perfect type of FA to bring in. Because of his age (he turns 34 during this coming season), this will be his last contract, so he doesn't need to worry about going to a team with a pass heavy attack in order to pad his numbers for that next contract. It would be FAR easier to sign a guy like him, than a guy in his mid to late 20s who is going to want to pad his numbers for at least one more big contract.

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 08:52 AM
Actually, Rev, I agree with about 95% of your take in this thread.

The things I question:

1. Whether Denver would spend the cash to bring in a receiver like Reggie Wayne. I think it's going to be very hard to attract "elite" veteran WRs to this team, given that it seems so geared towards the run. That's going to remain true even if Tebow develops as a passer, because that's just part of Fox-ball. I think the Broncos are going to have to build the receiver corps through the draft (or less established FAs).

2. I don't know about Carter. But I am definitely not on the Moore boat and I'll be surprised if he survives training camp. I dearly hope he proves me wrong.

1. I agree with the hesitation but to spend the kind of money Reggie will command, but not your rationale. If you look through Fox's Panthers history you'll see a lot more pass happy offenses than you'd expect to.

2. There's little to argue here since its pure speculation on both of our parts. That being said, center-fielder is hugely a mental game and I expect some significant mental growth from all of our safeties (not just moore) and potentially enough to match Rahims physical tools.

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 08:54 AM
Actually, Reggie Wayne is the perfect type of FA to bring in. Because of his age (he turns 34 during this coming season), this will be his last contract, so he doesn't need to worry about going to a team with a pass heavy attack in order to pad his numbers for that next contract. It would be FAR easier to sign a guy like him, than a guy in his mid to late 20s who is going to want to pad his numbers for at least one more big contract.

^ that.. Unless he wants to chase record books.. Also his age should assist in keeping him down from those "highest paid player at position" numbers.

vancejohnson82
01-31-2012, 08:54 AM
Actually, Reggie Wayne is the perfect type of FA to bring in. Because of his age (he turns 34 during this coming season), this will be his last contract, so he doesn't need to worry about going to a team with a pass heavy attack in order to pad his numbers for that next contract. It would be FAR easier to sign a guy like him, than a guy in his mid to late 20s who is going to want to pad his numbers for at least one more big contract.

another problem I would see with Reggie, however, is that I think we need some slot guys to get over the middle this year for Tebow. The TEs obviously didn't pan out the way we thought (Julius Thomas wins the 2011 Pre-Season Hype Award) and most of our passing was done to the outside as far as I recollect. Would he be able to move inside, to leave Decker and Bey Bey outside? Thats why I was thinking Meachem or Robinson to spread the field a bit.

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 08:57 AM
another problem I would see with Reggie, however, is that I think we need some slot guys to get over the middle this year for Tebow. The TEs obviously didn't pan out the way we thought (Julius Thomas wins the 2011 Pre-Season Hype Award) and most of our passing was done to the outside as far as I recollect. Would he be able to move inside, to leave Decker and Bey Bey outside? Thats why I was thinking Meachem or Robinson to spread the field a bit.

You don't pass over the middle against loaded boxes when you have better and more favorable match-ups outside with space to make a move and run.

TonyR
01-31-2012, 08:58 AM
Thoughts on why Indy would let Wayne go? Wouldn't they want to keep him around the help out their fancy, new franchise QB? Or are we suspecting rebuild mentality (like Denver moving Lloyd)?

ludo21
01-31-2012, 09:00 AM
I think we have the WR we need, (decker and thomas) we need a shifty guy like Eddie (a la Percy Harvin Esque). Rainey from Florida

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 09:04 AM
Thoughts on why Indy would let Wayne go? Wouldn't they want to keep him around the help out their fancy, new franchise QB? Or are we suspecting rebuild mentality (like Denver moving Lloyd)?

In the simplest terms possible: It's what they do.

Reference - Marshall Faulk, Marvin Harrison, Edg James, etc

Receivers behind Wayne - Garcon, Collie, Gonzalez and White

Very good, young WR corps and precedent for moving on from aging HoF'ers

vancejohnson82
01-31-2012, 09:05 AM
You don't pass over the middle against loaded boxes when you have better and more favorable match-ups outside with space to make a move and run.

when they load the box, assign a guy to a spy and are bringing pressure with LBs and bringing safeties into the box on a high percentage of plays, wouldn't that open up a vast majority of the field in the middle, right over that second level?

I feel like so many teams get these huge seam routes and dumps to slot guys over the middle. We never seem to be able to do it...even when Orton was here.

Also, I was led to believe that Tebow was a better deep ball arm than precision...wouldnt a legitimate deep threat down the seams help put this on display?

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 09:07 AM
when they load the box, assign a guy to a spy and are bringing pressure with LBs and bringing safeties into the box on a high percentage of plays, wouldn't that open up a vast majority of the field in the middle, right over that second level?

I feel like so many teams get these huge seam routes and dumps to slot guys over the middle. We never seem to be able to do it...even when Orton was here.

Against initial blitzes - yes

But here's what we saw MORE of last year:

Against spies - no

Against delayed blitzes - no


Also, I was led to believe that Tebow was a better deep ball arm than precision...wouldnt a legitimate deep threat down the seams help put this on display?

We hit a ton of seam plays last year...

vancejohnson82
01-31-2012, 09:12 AM
Against initial blitzes - yes

But here's what we saw MORE of last year:

Against spies - no

Against delayed blitzes - no




We hit a ton of seam plays last year...

We attempted 34 passes over the middle...unless on ESPN with the splits they count the seams as right and left attempts...but that would be kind of ridiculous

I also feel like having a slot guy or a pass catching TE takes away those delayed blitzes at times due to the linebackers multiple responsibilites...obviously its going to work when we have a 2TE set with neither guy really posing a threat

StugotsIII
01-31-2012, 09:16 AM
My dream off-season would be:

Carl Nicks (hands down my top priority)
Reggie Wayne (could do WONDERS with Demaryius the way Marvin did with him)
Mario Williams (DL becomes our top unit instantly... talk about a turn over events)
Dan Connor (though not as talented, he's still the heady, tough, smart linebacker that we've lacked since Wilson)
Aaron Ross (our coaching and Tebow's work ethic combined with a fresh start could turn him into what he should be)

And then Devon Still, Stephon Gilmore, Brandon Boykin, and Dan Herron via the draft.

At that point we go from a subpar talented but over-achieving team to perhaps the most talented team in the league.

Interesting on Herron…


I believe Herron to be a poor, poor, poor, poor, poor, poor mans version of Barry Sanders.


He has outstanding vision and great lateral movement. Could thrive in the spread option…though he didn't run it in college much, even with Pryor there.

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 09:20 AM
We attempted 34 passes over the middle...unless on ESPN with the splits they count the seams as right and left attempts...but that would be kind of ridiculous

I also feel like having a slot guy or a pass catching TE takes away those delayed blitzes at times due to the linebackers multiple responsibilites...obviously its going to work when we have a 2TE set with neither guy really posing a threat

Without even looking:

Both TD passes @ Oak were seams (Decker down the middle and Royal again). Fells catch @ Miami. etc

I'd be willing to bet >50% of our 20+ yard passing play TDs were in the seam.

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 09:25 AM
Interesting on Herron…


I believe Herron to be a poor, poor, poor, poor, poor, poor mans version of Barry Sanders.


He has outstanding vision and great lateral movement. Could thrive in the spread option…though he didn't run it in college much, even with Pryor there.

I see him in that MJD vein. Would like to see him get an opportunity here with McGahee and Knowshon.

StugotsIII
01-31-2012, 09:35 AM
I see him in that MJD vein. Would like to see him get an opportunity here with McGahee and Knowshon.

Is Knowshon still under contract?


I actually thought Moreno would thrive in the Broncos new offense….but the dude just can't stay healthy.

Beantown Bronco
01-31-2012, 09:37 AM
Is Knowshon still under contract?


I actually thought Moreno would thrive in the Broncos new offense….but the dude just can't stay healthy.

yup - under contract through 2013

He's only scheduled to make $855K next year. That's probably the main reason he's going to keep a roster spot.

BroncoInferno
01-31-2012, 09:46 AM
^ that.. Unless he wants to chase record books.. Also his age should assist in keeping him down from those "highest paid player at position" numbers.

Eh, any receiver is going to want a chance to put up numbers, regardless of the contract status. I think it's more realistic to target someone like Jerricho Cotchery. He's only 29, but is coming off a year where he dipped to 16 catches. Most teams are probably going to be looking at him for a one year type of deal, so something like 2 years $5 million would probably trump the market while still not being an extravagent buy, and he's young enough where you figure there is still some good football left in him despite this subpar year.

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 09:46 AM
yup - under contract through 2013

He's only scheduled to make $855K next year. That's probably the main reason he's going to keep a roster spot.

I've been critical of Knowshon for the obvious reasons, but he's a guy I expect to shine with Tebow.

Tombstone RJ
01-31-2012, 10:02 AM
Nicks will hit the market I'd guess.

Saints gave their other Guard, Jahri Evans, the biggest deal a guard has ever gotten a couple of years back. I doubt they can afford what Nicks is worth on top of that, especially with Brees likely to get a massive deal very soon too.

I don't think Mario Williams is going anywhere though. He looked like he was going to be an absolute animal playing OLB in Wade Phillips' defense before his injury. The Texans should have a real shot next year once they get Schaub back, I expect they'll do everything to make sure Williams is part of that run.

Rev, you high on any of the FA DT's this year?

It'd be awesome if the Bronco can land Williams. You have to wonder if Williams wants to play OLB in a 3-4 or be a DE in a 4-3. All things being equal I'd be willing to guess that Williams would rather stay at DE in a 4-3 so maybe he'd consider the Broncos over the Texans.

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 10:04 AM
It'd be awesome if the Bronco can land Williams. You have to wonder if Williams wants to play OLB in a 3-4 or be a DE in a 4-3. All things being equal I'd be willing to guess that Williams would rather stay at DE in a 4-3 so maybe he'd consider the Broncos over the Texans.

Unfortunately, that motivation is irrelevant.

For ALL intents and purposes, a Wade Phillips single-gap 34 = an "under front" 43

TonyR
01-31-2012, 10:09 AM
In the simplest terms possible...

All good points. Agree.

strafen
01-31-2012, 10:42 AM
Criticises without arguing any of the dozens of points? Check

Troll elsewhere loser.

What point do you want me to argue, that knowshon is going to shine with Tebow? :rofl:
Or that Thomas is really going to impact this time? :rofl:
I rest my case...

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 10:46 AM
What point do you want me to argue, that knowshon is going to shine with Tebow? :rofl:
Or that Thomas is really going to impact this time? :rofl:
I rest my case...

...Or the lengthily posted merits supporting specifically "why".

But I wouldn't expect you to be able to understand or comprehend that. You had to name change for a reason, didn't you troll?

strafen
01-31-2012, 10:57 AM
...Or the lengthily posted merits supporting specifically "why".

But I wouldn't expect you to be able to understand or comprehend that. You had to name change for a reason, didn't you troll?Oh no, I'm not at your super level here. You're elite. You're an awesome poster.
The fact that I don't kiss your ass doesn't make me a bad poster or a troll.
Hey, you're just awesome like that!

I didn't have to change anything. Whatever I do is because I want to, and not because an idiot on the internet made me do it.
Are you serious? :rofl:
Quit loving yourself so much, and see if you finally, at the age of 30 lose your virginity. Wait! you hate women don't ya'?
The 30 something virgin!

Miss I.
01-31-2012, 11:02 AM
Rev,
First I want to say I think this is a really interesting thread and appreciate a thread with actual football takes in it. I am not really very knowledgeable so I like to read these and soak them up.

2nd, in light of the first one, is there anything you'd recommend watching or reading that would provide me more actual football knowledge but written for a spectator rather than highly technical?

And finally, just in a general question respect, what other areas do you see us needing to develop that are not already addressed in yours or other people's posts in this thread?

vancejohnson82
01-31-2012, 11:08 AM
Rev,
First I want to say I think this is a really interesting thread and appreciate a thread with actual football takes in it. I am not really very knowledgeable so I like to read these and soak them up.

2nd, in light of the first one, is there anything you'd recommend watching or reading that would provide me more actual football knowledge but written for a spectator rather than highly technical?

And finally, just in a general question respect, what other areas do you see us needing to develop that are not already addressed in yours or other people's posts in this thread?

Do you get NFL Network? The AFC/NFC weekly Playbook shows are pretty good for starters. It's not too schematic or term based but they do a great job with the visuals and basic concepts of the offense/defense

Miss I.
01-31-2012, 11:12 AM
Do you get NFL Network? The AFC/NFC weekly Playbook shows are pretty good for starters. It's not too schematic or term based but they do a great job with the visuals and basic concepts of the offense/defense

Unfortunately not here in the UK. The US football I do get is fairly poor and I do read the websites, but a lot are fairly gossipy. The commentators all appear to be less than knowledgeable about the game and appear to be regurgitating canned comments. But maybe if I keep my NFL.com subscription next year I can watch more of their other videos. Thanks.

Ray Finkle
01-31-2012, 11:20 AM
Unfortunately not here in the UK. The US football I do get is fairly poor and I do read the websites, but a lot are fairly gossipy. The commentators all appear to be less than knowledgeable about the game and appear to be regurgitating canned comments. But maybe if I keep my NFL.com subscription next year I can watch more of their other videos. Thanks.

this is a good starter...Pat Kirwan's is to the point.

http://www.amazon.com/Take-Your-Eye-Off-Ball/dp/1600783910

Miss I.
01-31-2012, 11:23 AM
this is a good starter...Pat Kirwan's is to the point.

http://www.amazon.com/Take-Your-Eye-Off-Ball/dp/1600783910

Thanks. will get that one. To be honest while I genuinely want the book I was just trying to get the thread back onto the topic Rev started because it was genuinely interesting to read. Sorry if I took it off course, but I started to see some baiting and was hoping this thread would not go that direction. Carry on and I will go back to lurking on this thread and posting nonsense on the endless is Tebow the one threads. thanks again.

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 11:48 AM
this is a good starter...Pat Kirwan's is to the point.

http://www.amazon.com/Take-Your-Eye-Off-Ball/dp/1600783910

This is very much what I'd recommend.

Ill respond to your other questions when I get home, Miss I. At gym

gyldenlove
01-31-2012, 11:49 AM
In the simplest terms possible: It's what they do.

Reference - Marshall Faulk, Marvin Harrison, Edg James, etc

Receivers behind Wayne - Garcon, Collie, Gonzalez and White

Very good, young WR corps and precedent for moving on from aging HoF'ers

I agree they will let him go unless they can lock him up to a favourable contract - Gonzalez has no future in indy he is a free agent and has missed the last 3 seasons with injuries, he won't be resigned.

gyldenlove
01-31-2012, 12:01 PM
My dream off-season would be:

Carl Nicks (hands down my top priority)
Reggie Wayne (could do WONDERS with Demaryius the way Marvin did with him)
Mario Williams (DL becomes our top unit instantly... talk about a turn over events)
Dan Connor (though not as talented, he's still the heady, tough, smart linebacker that we've lacked since Wilson)
Aaron Ross (our coaching and Tebow's work ethic combined with a fresh start could turn him into what he should be)

And then Devon Still, Stephon Gilmore, Brandon Boykin, and Dan Herron via the draft.

At that point we go from a subpar talented but over-achieving team to perhaps the most talented team in the league.

Mine would be:

Brandon Carr (CB) - he is one of the best 2nd CBs in the league and in the beginning of his prime, plus getting him out of KC would be big in itself.
Ben Grubbs (G) - he is a mauler in the ground game.
Thomas Decoud (FS) - he is good enough to start but not so good that he will keep a good younger player on the sideline for ever.
Dan Connor (ILB) - was drafted by Fox but sits behind the best 4-3 ILB in the league, unlike Niko Koutouvides however this guy is the real deal.

Draft:

1. Janoris Jenkins
2. Kendall Reyes
3. Lamichael James

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 12:08 PM
Thanks. will get that one. To be honest while I genuinely want the book I was just trying to get the thread back onto the topic Rev started because it was genuinely interesting to read. Sorry if I took it off course, but I started to see some baiting and was hoping this thread would not go that direction. Carry on and I will go back to lurking on this thread and posting nonsense on the endless is Tebow the one threads. thanks again.

A valiant effort and appreciated but his post was too absurd to warrant a response.

Rev,
First I want to say I think this is a really interesting thread and appreciate a thread with actual football takes in it. I am not really very knowledgeable so I like to read these and soak them up.

2nd, in light of the first one, is there anything you'd recommend watching or reading that would provide me more actual football knowledge but written for a spectator rather than highly technical?

And finally, just in a general question respect, what other areas do you see us needing to develop that are not already addressed in yours or other people's posts in this thread?

Stupid answer, but we need to continue developing as a team. More depth, more competition, more cohesion, more effort, more discipline, etc.

We're bereft of talent, but "my dream offseason" would more than take care of that. In that scenario, positions of weakness that made the play of the players around them weaker would become positions of strength and make the play of the players around them stronger.

For example: Adding Nicks at G adds competition everywhere. Franklin, Harris and Beadles can all push each other for the RT spot, making the eventual starter a better player for it. Or we now have a contingency plan in case Kuper's recovery takes some time.

Deeper teams simply have better matchups across the board because of it. We did excellent this past season despite having virtually no depth at OL, WR, TE, CB, or DL. That, in itself, is nothing shy of amazing.

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 12:11 PM
Mine would be:

Brandon Carr (CB) - he is one of the best 2nd CBs in the league and in the beginning of his prime, plus getting him out of KC would be big in itself.
Ben Grubbs (G) - he is a mauler in the ground game.
Thomas Decoud (FS) - he is good enough to start but not so good that he will keep a good younger player on the sideline for ever.
Dan Connor (ILB) - was drafted by Fox but sits behind the best 4-3 ILB in the league, unlike Niko Koutouvides however this guy is the real deal.

Draft:

1. Janoris Jenkins
2. Kendall Reyes
3. Lamichael James

Still sprained his toe. VERY hopeful it keeps him out of the combine and slides him to where we select. Nabbing him would do WONDERS for our defense as a whole. Jenkins certainly wouldn't upset me one bit though.

Pick Six
01-31-2012, 12:14 PM
While I appreciate vets coming to Denver, I don't want Wayne (or any other FA WR). I believe Decker, Thomas and Willis are the future, and we need to keep developing them. I wouldn't mind more FAs on the offensive or defensive line, though...

Requiem
01-31-2012, 12:14 PM
http://solehiphop.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/olivia-munn-jiggle-03.gif

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 12:16 PM
While I appreciate vets coming to Denver, I don't want Wayne (or any other FA WR). I believe Decker, Thomas and Willis are the future, and we need to keep developing them. I wouldn't mind more FAs on the offensive or defensive line, though...

I can appreciate that POV and the line of thought that a Reggie Wayne is "overdoing it", but we absolutely have a necessity for a vet WR who's been successful in the league that can show them how to prepare, pass on what he knows about focus, drills, etc.

Those guys may absolutely be our future. But if we have another season of leading the league in drops per attempt that means they'll be more likely our past than our future.

Miss I.
01-31-2012, 12:43 PM
I can appreciate that POV and the line of thought that a Reggie Wayne is "overdoing it", but we absolutely have a necessity for a vet WR who's been successful in the league that can show them how to prepare, pass on what he knows about focus, drills, etc.

Those guys may absolutely be our future. But if we have another season of leading the league in drops per attempt that means they'll be more likely our past than our future.

Agreed on all points, but I have a dumb question, why unload Lloyd then? Granted he's not Reggie Wayne, nowhere near that, but wouldn't he have been able to help both the younger WR and Tim? Is this tied to his attitude issues? We got what for him? A 5th round draft pick?

Beantown Bronco
01-31-2012, 12:46 PM
I'm still bitter about them giving away Gaffney. Dirt cheap, productive and was a model citizen on and off the field, in the lockerroom, etc.

gyldenlove
01-31-2012, 01:14 PM
Still sprained his toe. VERY hopeful it keeps him out of the combine and slides him to where we select. Nabbing him would do WONDERS for our defense as a whole. Jenkins certainly wouldn't upset me one bit though.

I would be very happy with Still, we need that 3T badly and I am never against drafting talented DL players.

gyldenlove
01-31-2012, 01:17 PM
Agreed on all points, but I have a dumb question, why unload Lloyd then? Granted he's not Reggie Wayne, nowhere near that, but wouldn't he have been able to help both the younger WR and Tim? Is this tied to his attitude issues? We got what for him? A 5th round draft pick?

2 reasons:

1. Thomas was ready to play and with Lloyd in there they would have faced the situation of either having to pull Decker out or leave Thomas out of the base offense. Lloyd wouldn't have been happy with being demoted to 3rd WR and had we done so we would have lost him for nothing but a potential compensation pick (I think this would have been the way to go but the powers that be disagree with me).

2. Lloyd was not happy with the switch to Tebow and the run first and second offense (I can understand why, he finally began playing well and this offseason is really his last chance at a big contract, so having his value eroded by an option offense is not desirable).

BroncoInferno
01-31-2012, 01:20 PM
2 reasons:

1. Thomas was ready to play and with Lloyd in there they would have faced the situation of either having to pull Decker out or leave Thomas out of the base offense. Lloyd wouldn't have been happy with being demoted to 3rd WR and had we done so we would have lost him for nothing but a potential compensation pick (I think this would have been the way to go but the powers that be disagree with me).

2. Lloyd was not happy with the switch to Tebow and the run first and second offense (I can understand why, he finally began playing well and this offseason is really his last chance at a big contract, so having his value eroded by an option offense is not desirable).

3) EFX did not expect to make a playoff run. Had they been able to anticipate that, Lloyd would have stayed on the team.

broncosteven
01-31-2012, 01:21 PM
I don't think we would have a shot at Williams or Wayne....Connor is interesting but is going to be overpaid, hopefully somewhere else. I like everything else listed and I think its a bit more realistic. Especially Nicks

If the Colts let Wayne walk I think we have as good a chance as any other team to sign him if not better because we have money to spend.

Thomas has shown flashes of greatness but he is the most consistent out of an inconsistent lot.

Plus Fox had Steve Smith on the Panthers and knows what an explosive WR can do to a D and help the run game.

Wayne will follow the money.

broncosteven
01-31-2012, 01:28 PM
While I appreciate vets coming to Denver, I don't want Wayne (or any other FA WR). I believe Decker, Thomas and Willis are the future, and we need to keep developing them. I wouldn't mind more FAs on the offensive or defensive line, though...

Decker hasn't shown enough to not sign a Reggie Wayne.

Maybe if he doesn't drop anything in Camp and shows he can get open then I would see your point.

Plus there is talk of us not keeping Royal so bringing in a possible HOF caliber WR to be a possession guy for a couple years would surely help this team.

Just think of having Thomas and Decker wide, with Wayne in the slot. Our 3rd down conversion % would go way up!

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 01:52 PM
I'm still bitter about them giving away Gaffney. Dirt cheap, productive and was a model citizen on and off the field, in the lockerroom, etc.

You know very well I've never been a big Gaffney guy, but he was EXACTLY what this team needed at WR last year :/

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 01:53 PM
Agreed on all points, but I have a dumb question, why unload Lloyd then? Granted he's not Reggie Wayne, nowhere near that, but wouldn't he have been able to help both the younger WR and Tim? Is this tied to his attitude issues? We got what for him? A 5th round draft pick?

Lloyd is neither a good teammate, nor does he know anything about preparation. He had the nerve in an interview once to tell the interviewer he never watches tape of his opponent.

I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if it turned out Lloyd is PRECISELY one of the problems in Demaryius and Decker's fundamentals.

WolfpackGuy
01-31-2012, 01:56 PM
I dunno why anybody misses "Garbage Time, Jr." Lloyd.

It's not like they won anything with him in the 1+ seasons he was a starter, and it's a high 5th rounder they got in return.

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 02:00 PM
I dunno why anybody misses "Garbage Time, Jr." Lloyd.

It's not like they won anything with him in the 1+ seasons he was a starter, and it's a high 5th rounder they got in return.

Have you read the board lately? All that matters is completion %, apparently. ::)

Miss I.
01-31-2012, 02:00 PM
I dunno why anybody misses "Garbage Time, Jr." Lloyd.

It's not like they won anything with him in the 1+ seasons he was a starter, and it's a high 5th rounder they got in return.

I wouldn't say I missed him. I just wondered given he was the more experienced receiver why not keep him. Rev and Gyldenlove answered that. Though he did make some pretty good catches while we had him and I do think he probably would've pulled down some of the drops the others have made. But I definitely concede he had attitude issues that infected everything else.

oubronco
01-31-2012, 02:57 PM
Denver's unrestricted free agents

DT Brodrick Bunkley
DT Marcus Thomas
DT Ryan McBean
DE Jason Hunter
DE Derrick Harvey
S Brian Dawkins
LB Wesley Woodyard
LB Mario Haggan
LB Joe Mays
CB Jonathan Wilhite
WR Eddie Royal
WR Matthew Willis
TE Daniel Fells
TE Dante Rosario
G/C Russ Hochstein
G Manny Ramirez
FB Spencer Larsen
QB Brady Quinn
K Matt Prater

Denver's restricted free agents

RB Lance Ball
OT Chris Clark
P Britton Colquitt




Who do they bring back?

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 03:00 PM
Denver's unrestricted free agents

DT Brodrick Bunkley
DT Marcus Thomas
DT Ryan McBean
DE Jason Hunter
DE Derrick Harvey
S Brian Dawkins
LB Wesley Woodyard
LB Mario Haggan
LB Joe Mays
CB Jonathan Wilhite
WR Eddie Royal
WR Matthew Willis
TE Daniel Fells
TE Dante Rosario
G/C Russ Hochstein
G Manny Ramirez
FB Spencer Larsen
QB Brady Quinn
K Matt Prater

Denver's restricted free agents

RB Lance Ball
OT Chris Clark
P Britton Colquitt




Who do they bring back?

^

oubronco
01-31-2012, 03:02 PM
^

I would bring back Royal as well

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 03:03 PM
I would bring back Royal as well

I would slam the door on his face if he wanted anything remotely resembling "decent" money.

riiiiick
01-31-2012, 03:05 PM
Rep this thread. This is why I come to this forum. From a Pastor to a Rev, thanks.

oubronco
01-31-2012, 03:06 PM
I would slam the door on his face if he wanted anything remotely resembling "decent" money.

He's a really good return man and a decent slot reciever don't see no reason not to bring him back at a reasonable price

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 03:08 PM
He's a really good return man and a decent slot reciever don't see no reason not to bring him back at a reasonable price

I'd agree with you if a slot receiver didn't need to get open or catch a football. In that case, he's awesome.

oubronco
01-31-2012, 03:10 PM
I'd agree with you if a slot receiver didn't need to get open or catch a football. In that case, he's awesome.

We'll agree to disagree cause I don't want to crap up your good thread about the one throwing the ball OK

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 03:12 PM
We'll agree to disagree cause I don't want to crap up your good thread about the one throwing the ball OK

http://menversus.com/images/bertstare.jpg

Wtf does this even mean?

We're talking about Royal... he's been nothing shy of piss poor since 2008. There's nothing debatable about that lol.

oubronco
01-31-2012, 03:14 PM
Who are they gonna replace him with?

They can only do so much in one offseason and the Defense needs alot of attention

Chris
01-31-2012, 03:18 PM
He's a really good return man and a decent slot reciever don't see no reason not to bring him back at a reasonable price

Is Eddie a really good return man? I know he's taken some for 6 but honestly he seems to fair catch or get stopped for no gain really often. It's tough to say what a good return man is though, being a Broncos fan.

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 03:20 PM
Who are they gonna replace him with?

By the end of the year they'd already replaced him with Matt Willis...

oubronco
01-31-2012, 03:28 PM
By the end of the year they'd already replaced him with Matt Willis...

He didn't totally replace him but who could they bring in to upgrade the position

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 03:32 PM
He didn't totally replace him but who could they bring in to upgrade the position

To answer your question: Anyone

That being said, the OP references bringing in another receiver.

Retaining Eddie would not only pour money down the drain, but put him 5th on the depth chart: Demaryius, ______ vet, Decker, Willis, Royal? (lol)

Heyneck
01-31-2012, 03:33 PM
Trade for Percy Harvin!!! No...in all seriousness I would love that but I doubt the vikes want to part with him.

But we should try and draft an outside, do it all speed demon WR. Maybe the Riney kid from FL in the 3rd or 4th round.

If I didn't hate D. Jackson so much...I would say go after him aggressively in FA.

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 03:37 PM
Trade for Percy Harvin!!! No...in all seriousness I would love that but I doubt the vikes want to part with him.

But we should try and draft an outside, do it all speed demon WR. Maybe the Riney kid from FL in the 3rd or 4th round.

If I didn't hate D. Jackson so much...I would say go after him aggressively in FA.

He's a RB, but your point about having a "gadget" player stands. Montrose has been a big advocate of this.

Personally, (since Demps wants to focus on the Olympics instead of the NFL) I like Joe Adams from Arkansas. A competent receiver and a complete BURNER with crazy lateral quickness too to handle all of our gadget plays, return kicks and stretch the field when necessary.

oubronco
01-31-2012, 03:37 PM
To answer your question: Anyone

That being said, the OP references bringing in another receiver.

Retaining Eddie would not only pour money down the drain, but put him 5th on the depth chart: Demaryius, ______ vet, Decker, Willis, Royal? (lol)

Anyone? So pretty much everyone that's a FA is better than Royal and has speed that they could get at a decent price

houghtam
01-31-2012, 03:37 PM
To answer your question: Anyone

That being said, the OP references bringing in another receiver.

Retaining Eddie would not only pour money down the drain, but put him 5th on the depth chart: Demaryius, ______ vet, Decker, Willis, Royal? (lol)

Yeah unfortunately at this point I'm with you. I'd be interested in keeping him around only for the return game and only on a short (1 or 2 year), cheap deal. Since someone who is desperate will overpay or overextend for him, it's not worth putting money into him.

He hasn't done jack since his rookie year, and he looks lost in this offense.

oubronco
01-31-2012, 03:39 PM
He's a RB, but your point about having a "gadget" player stands. Montrose has been a big advocate of this.

Personally, (since Demps wants to focus on the Olympics instead of the NFL) I like Joe Adams from Arkansas. A competent receiver and a complete BURNER with crazy lateral quickness too to handle all of our gadget plays, return kicks and stretch the field when necessary.

I like Adams as well whens he projected to come off the board

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 03:39 PM
Yeah unfortunately at this point I'm with you. I'd be interested in keeping him around only for the return game and only on a short (1 or 2 year), cheap deal. Since someone who is desperate will overpay or overextend for him, it's not worth putting money into him.

He hasn't done jack since his rookie year, and he looks lost in this offense.

He's looked lost in every offense since Shanahan/Cutler left town and his positions on the depth chart and continually being beaten out by younger and far less talented players since have reflected that.

zdoor
01-31-2012, 03:42 PM
I'm still bitter about them giving away Gaffney. Dirt cheap, productive and was a model citizen on and off the field, in the lockerroom, etc.

Agree completely

vancejohnson82
01-31-2012, 03:42 PM
Rev,

I agree with most of the free agent list you have up there....however, why keep Woodyward over Mays? The guy had played himself almost completely out of the rotiation by the playoffs, unless I missed him in there. Mays got eaten alive in that Pats game, but I would blame that on scheme mostly. You can't expect any LB in the league to go toe to toe with Gronk or Hernandez...expecially with no resistance off the line

zdoor
01-31-2012, 03:46 PM
^

Like your list but Quinn will likely test the waters, hochstein can go either way for me and while I love Dawkins we'd need another option (Moore or Bruton???) to pan out because chances he'd make it through another season are not good. Still I'd be good with those resignings....

Bronco Yoda
01-31-2012, 03:47 PM
Gaffney would have been the perfect WR for Tebow this season. Yah, spilled milk and all.

Heyneck
01-31-2012, 03:47 PM
He's a RB, but your point about having a "gadget" player stands. Montrose has been a big advocate of this.

Personally, (since Demps wants to focus on the Olympics instead of the NFL) I like Joe Adams from Arkansas. A competent receiver and a complete BURNER with crazy lateral quickness too to handle all of our gadget plays, return kicks and stretch the field when necessary.

Yup you are right he is a RB. But he as awesome hands for a rb. They tried him a lot at WR during senior bow practices and beat everybody they put on him. Even Janoris Jenkins on 2 occasions.

I really think he could be the Percy type.

zdoor
01-31-2012, 03:48 PM
Trade for Percy Harvin!!! No...in all seriousness I would love that but I doubt the vikes want to part with him.

But we should try and draft an outside, do it all speed demon WR. Maybe the Riney kid from FL in the 3rd or 4th round.

If I didn't hate D. Jackson so much...I would say go after him aggressively in FA.

I'd love this but don't see it happening... LaMichael James is a more realistic possibility...

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 03:51 PM
Rev,

I agree with most of the free agent list you have up there....however, why keep Woodyward over Mays? The guy had played himself almost completely out of the rotiation by the playoffs, unless I missed him in there. Mays got eaten alive in that Pats game, but I would blame that on scheme mostly. You can't expect any LB in the league to go toe to toe with Gronk or Hernandez...expecially with no resistance off the line

I think there was more going on there than "played himself out of the rotation".

Did you know that despite "playing himself out of the rotation", he lead the team in tackles?

Like your list but Quinn will likely test the waters, hochstein can go either way for me and while I love Dawkins we'd need another option (Moore or Bruton???) to pan out because chances he'd make it through another season are not good. Still I'd be good with those resignings....

Agree on all accounts. There's a lot of "IDGAF" on that list.

Heyneck
01-31-2012, 03:54 PM
Rev,

I agree with most of the free agent list you have up there....however, why keep Woodyward over Mays? The guy had played himself almost completely out of the rotiation by the playoffs, unless I missed him in there. Mays got eaten alive in that Pats game, but I would blame that on scheme mostly. You can't expect any LB in the league to go toe to toe with Gronk or Hernandez...expecially with no resistance off the line

I think we try and trade DJ unless we are going for the physical defense that JDR likes. But Woody is an up an comer. If we don't sign him he will quickly find a starting gig in the first days of FA. The time is ripe to trade DJ and let Woody start. I think, his talent and play have earned it.

An Mays...I cant remember how many time he wifed of missed a tackle. He is always going for the kill and that's what affected a run defense the most. If we get a legit MLB or Predator develops...our run defense radical improves.

oubronco
01-31-2012, 03:56 PM
Agree on all accounts. There's a lot of "IDGAF" on that list.

Time for them to clean house and get some talent in here especially on the D-line and O-line build up the trenches

houghtam
01-31-2012, 04:00 PM
An Mays...I cant remember how many time he wifed of missed a tackle. He is always going for the kill and that's what affected a run defense the most. If we get a legit MLB or Predator develops...our run defense radical improves.

The all-time Broncos LB corps

Joe "the other pocket sloth, if by pocket you mean watching the back of the guy's jersey" Mays
Nate "I'm dancin' cuz I stopped a guy for a 4 yard gain" Webster
Donnie "who?" Spragan

zdoor
01-31-2012, 04:06 PM
Michael Griffin's been up and down but he'd be worth a little risk if Dawkins doesn't come back.

Heyneck
01-31-2012, 04:06 PM
The all-time Broncos LB corps

Joe "the other pocket sloth, if by pocket you mean watching the back of the guy's jersey" Mays
Nate "I'm dancin' cuz I stopped a guy for a 4 yard gain" Webster
Donnie "who?" Spragan

LOL

Heyneck
01-31-2012, 04:12 PM
The all-time Broncos LB corps

Joe "the other pocket sloth, if by pocket you mean watching the back of the guy's jersey" Mays
Nate "I'm dancin' cuz I stopped a guy for a 4 yard gain" Webster
Donnie "who?" Spragan

Remember Shanny's top addition: Nick Kotuvedes or something like that?! jajaja

oubronco
01-31-2012, 04:20 PM
There's definitely some talent gonna be out there but the top talent probably will be resigned by their teams

2012 NFL Free Agent Receivers

Reggie Wayne (IND)
Wes Welker (NE)
Vincent Jackson (SD)
DeSean Jackson (PHI)
Dwayne Bowe (KC)
Marques Colston (NO)
Steve Johnson (BUF)
Brandon Lloyd (STL)
Robert Meachem (NO)
Mario Manningham (NYG)
Mike Wallace (PIT) - Restricted
Early Doucet (ARZ)
Harry Douglas (ATL)
Eric Weems (ATL)
Roscoe Parrish (BUF)
Legedu Naanee (CAR)
Earl Bennett (CHI)
Roy Williams (CHI)
Andre Caldwell (CIN)
Jerome Simpson (CIN)
Eddie Royal (DEN)
Rashied Davis (DET)
Maurice Stovall (DET)
Bryant Johnson (HOU)
Pierre Garcon (IND)
Anthony Gonzalez (IND)
Jerheme Urban (KC)
Devin Aromashodu (MIN)
Bernard Berrian (MIN)
Greg Camarillo (MIN)
Deion Branch (NE)
Matt Slater (NE)
Domenik Hixon (NYG)
Devin Thomas (NYG)
Plaxico Burress (NYJ)
Derek Hagan (OAK)
Chaz Schilens (OAK)
Steve Smith (PHI)
Jerricho Cotchery (PIT)
Patrick Crayton (SD)
Braylon Edwards (SF)
Ted Ginn (SF)
Josh Morgan (SF)
Mike Sims-Walker (STL)
Micheal Spurlock (TB)
Donnie Avery (TEN)
Kevin Curtis (TEN)
Lavelle Hawkins (TEN)
Donte' Stallworth (WAS)
Stephen Williams (ARZ) - Exclusive Rights
Jordan Norwood (CLE) - Exclusive Rights
Jesse Holley (DAL) - Exclusive Rights
Kevin Ogletree (DAL) - Restricted
Stefan Logan (DET) - Restricted
Matt Willis (DEN) - Restricted
Danny Amendola (STL) - Restricted
Dominique Curry (STL) - Exclusive Rights
Preston Parker (TB) - Exclusive Rights

vancejohnson82
01-31-2012, 04:59 PM
I think there was more going on there than "played himself out of the rotation".

Did you know that despite "playing himself out of the rotation", he lead the team in tackles?



Agree on all accounts. There's a lot of "IDGAF" on that list.

wow...I had no idea he led the team in tackles...actually had to take a second look at that. What the hell was going on then? Also, didnt realize he was only 25...feels like he has been around for a while. But then again, when you change DCs every year anybody seems like a veteran on the squad.

People like to trash on Mays, but at least he finds himself in the backfield sometimes. Granted, he ends up whiffing on the tackle 80% of the time, but maybe we can get someone in here to teach him to break down when he gets there...or put some Dramamine in his Gatorade to relax him. Woodyard had 1 tackle for a loss. Miller and Mays had 8 each....I like that kind of play

vancejohnson82
01-31-2012, 05:00 PM
Ginn would be fun....kind of like a Royal except he will catch the same amount of balls but be able to return punts

but after that kid struggled so bad for them in the NFCCG I think he's going to get locked up

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 05:02 PM
Ginn would be fun....kind of like a Royal except he will catch the same amount of balls but be able to return punts

but after that kid struggled so bad for them in the NFCCG I think he's going to get locked up

Ginn would be fun and could be schemed to some cool stuff. But we need someone that knows how to play the WR position and that's not Ted.

vancejohnson82
01-31-2012, 05:11 PM
Ginn would be fun and could be schemed to some cool stuff. But we need someone that knows how to play the WR position and that's not Ted.

yea, I wouldnt see him getting any where over around 30-35 catches...but running some reverses, bubble screens (although I think we've all been bubbled in the past 3 years), lining him up in the backfield at times and getting him in open field in the return game would be getting everything we wish we would have gotten from Royal

A few people mentioned picking up a "gadget" player. I like the idea but it scares me in the sense that we would start to become more and more of a "gimmick" offense instead of moving towards a more traditional look. We won't ever be traditional with TT back there, but we need to move more in that direction

All that said, a guy like Harvin, Rainey, etc... chubs me a little bit

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 06:04 PM
yea, I wouldnt see him getting any where over around 30-35 catches...but running some reverses, bubble screens (although I think we've all been bubbled in the past 3 years), lining him up in the backfield at times and getting him in open field in the return game would be getting everything we wish we would have gotten from Royal

A few people mentioned picking up a "gadget" player. I like the idea but it scares me in the sense that we would start to become more and more of a "gimmick" offense instead of moving towards a more traditional look. We won't ever be traditional with TT back there, but we need to move more in that direction

All that said, a guy like Harvin, Rainey, etc... chubs me a little bit

We're going to be much more "traditional" moving forward.

That being said, why would doing something new "scare" you?

Heyneck
01-31-2012, 06:05 PM
SPEED KILLS!!!

Rev- you mentioned Adams from ARK.

I don't know much about him...but I have read that he had a good showing with his hands at the senior bowl. The said they knew he had the speed and shiftiness, but that they were surprised by his catching ability during the week.
Is he a consistent catcher? They think that his showing during the week propelled him to early second round. You guys think is worth getting him that high.

Seeing the overall talent pool I dont think he makes it that high but definitely a target n the bottom of the second early third.

Still think Rainey is better value in the 3rd or 4th.

TheReverend
01-31-2012, 06:09 PM
SPEED KILLS!!!

Rev- you mentioned Adams from ARK.

I don't know much about him...but I have read that he had a good showing with his hands at the senior bowl. The said they knew he had the speed and shiftiness, but that they were surprised by his catching ability during the week.
Is he a consistent catcher? They think that his showing during the week propelled him to early second round. You guys think is worth getting him that high.

Seeing the overall talent pool I dont think he makes it that high but definitely a target n the bottom of the second early third.

Still think Rainey is better value in the 3rd or 4th.

He's not worth anything higher than a 4th, imo. I'd grade all of his WR skills from catching to route running as "adequate"... except that speeeeeeeeed.

rugbythug
01-31-2012, 07:21 PM
I put Royal and DJ Williams in the same category. Each is a solid player when they are schemed for, and an underachiever when not schemed for. To me this was fine until we substituted players who were studs when schemed for and a solid player when not. Thus making them an un-schemed player and an underachiever. The role each plays on the team is a role that requires you to be good when not the focal point. Neither of those players are.

vancejohnson82
01-31-2012, 10:13 PM
We're going to be much more "traditional" moving forward.

That being said, why would doing something new "scare" you?

Because, when this whole Tebow thing started I thought we would have to commit to either changing the game, or getting rid of him

I really don't see some sort of a balance here. he will never be the QB that can hit 15 yard ins or 8 yard outs for first downs, but we can win

so in my opinion we have to build the roster to be one or the other. Either a weird, Florida type offensive playcalling team or a wishbone/defensive team.

goddamnit, I hope I dont have to watch Navy for the next 12 years (unless we are winning)

Bronco Yoda
01-31-2012, 11:17 PM
he will never be the QB that can hit 15 yard ins or 8 yard outs for first downs, but we can win

And you know this how?

Are you saying his longer windup will ensure this? Is he just too stupid to ever learn to process info fast enough to read Defenses? He's incapable of ever getting on the same page with his WR's over time? The Coaches will never push him or let him develop this?

What?

Play2win
01-31-2012, 11:18 PM
another problem I would see with Reggie, however, is that I think we need some slot guys to get over the middle this year for Tebow. The TEs obviously didn't pan out the way we thought (Julius Thomas wins the 2011 Pre-Season Hype Award) and most of our passing was done to the outside as far as I recollect. Would he be able to move inside, to leave Decker and Bey Bey outside? Thats why I was thinking Meachem or Robinson to spread the field a bit.

Doesn't really matter, Tebow doesn't have a quick enough release for that.

houghtam
01-31-2012, 11:18 PM
And you know this how?

Are you saying his longer windup will ensure this? Is he just too stupid to ever learn to process info fast enough to read Defenses? He's incapable of ever getting on the same page with his WR's over time? The Coaches will never push him or let him develop this?

What?

Careful there, Yoda, you're bordering on "tebonner" status.

We jus' dun can't be havin' thayut.

Play2win
01-31-2012, 11:24 PM
I just don't think Tebow has the flexibility or the range or motion to ever make the quick throw over the middle.

Play2win
01-31-2012, 11:28 PM
The quick throw over the middle is essential in the NFL. Tebow can't make the quick throw over the middle. Tebow fails at an essential skill to play QB in the NFL. Tebow is unskill at QB in the NFL.

Bronco Yoda
01-31-2012, 11:35 PM
Careful there, Yoda, you're bordering on "tebonner" status.

We jus' dun can't be havin' thayut.

:giggle: I plan on calling Dr. Bronc if it doesn't go down in four hours.

Bronco Yoda
01-31-2012, 11:38 PM
I wonder how Weber has been developing.

TheReverend
02-01-2012, 03:08 AM
I really don't see some sort of a balance here. he will never be the QB that can hit 15 yard ins or 8 yard outs for first downs, but we can win

I really wish when people made these ridiculous claims it was parody...

vancejohnson82
02-01-2012, 04:32 AM
I really wish when people made these ridiculous claims it was parody...

I'm not going to derail your awesome thread, but Tebow can't make those throws and more than likely never will be able to, which is why our "perspective" moving forward should be to pick up offensive players to fit his skill set

Or we can spend the next 8 years improving his motions and running the ball 56 times a game

Anyway, my point was that I would like to see some speed, slot guys that we could dump the ball off to and have them make plays

Dr. Broncenstein
02-01-2012, 05:29 AM
:giggle: I plan on calling Dr. Bronc if it doesn't go down in four hours.

You wouldn't if I told you what was required to treat your Tebow induced priapism. Holy moly....

Broncos_OTM
02-01-2012, 06:05 AM
Is there really a chance of getting Williams and Nicks? Is there talk that they won't be back on their current teams or is this just you hoping they aren't resigned? I would love to get those two. I hate looking at FAs this soon though. The large majority of good ones, aren't leaving their current teams. Mario Williams possibly could be let go. Finaces are tough and they got production for less money. Very possible new orleans already has one highly.paid gaurd it be pretty risky with two guys making thaat amount on the interior.

gyldenlove
02-01-2012, 07:10 AM
Mario Williams possibly could be let go. Finaces are tough and they got production for less money. Very possible new orleans already has one highly.paid gaurd it be pretty risky with two guys making thaat amount on the interior.

Nicks is gone in New Orleans, he has claimed he wants to test free agency and will not give a hometown discount and with the money they have tied up in Evans the Brees negotiation still going on they won't have a choice but to let him go.

TheReverend
02-03-2012, 08:35 PM
Bump for people who aren't even trying to "get it".

Disagree? Say why and man up for once in your lives.