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Lestat
11-05-2012, 09:25 PM
Tim Tebow is a better QB than Cam Newton.

that's not even funny to joke about.
Newton is world's better than Tebow as a QB.
not the greatest leader, Tebow has him there but that aspect will come with maturity and winning.

NUB
11-05-2012, 09:43 PM
I dunno. I guess I just like winning. Some people think being a quarterback is all about throwing a pretty ball, though.

DBroncos4life
11-05-2012, 09:47 PM
I dunno. I guess I just like winning. Some people think being a quarterback is all about throwing a pretty ball, though.

I want a guy that is good enough to beat out the guy he is fighting with for the starting job, not the other guys sucking so bad he becomes the QB by default.

NUB
11-05-2012, 09:50 PM
I want a guy that is good enough to beat out the guy he is fighting with for the starting job, not the other guys sucking so bad he becomes the QB by default.

That's quite the requirement. Not only did you exclude Tim Tebow with your stupid limitation, congratulations on that by the way, you also managed to throw out Tom Brady, Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, etc. etc. etc.

errand
11-05-2012, 09:53 PM
I dunno. I guess I just like winning. Some people think being a quarterback is all about throwing a pretty ball, though.

Well, no...but you have to make a good impression on the coaching staff for them to trust you to be the team's leader.....face it, he's not once beaten anyone out of a job in pre-season and the only way he takes over as starter is if the guy in front of him ****s the bed.....

NUB
11-05-2012, 09:56 PM
Well, no...but you have to make a good impression on the coaching staff for them to trust you to be the team's leader.....face it, he's not once beaten anyone out of a job in pre-season and the only way he takes over as starter is if the guy in front of him ****s the bed.....

How is this even a point? What kind of argument is this?

errand
11-05-2012, 09:56 PM
That's quite the requirement. Not only did you exclude Tim Tebow with your stupid limitation, congratulations on that by the way, you also managed to throw out Tom Brady, Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, etc. etc. etc.

Well perhaps that's because Don Majkowski, Drew Bledsoe, and Trent Green got Wally Pipped by those aforementioned potential hall of fame QB's

They lost their jobs because they got injured and their replacements led their teams to greater heights.....

DBroncos4life
11-05-2012, 09:56 PM
That's quite the requirement. Not only did you exclude Tim Tebow with your stupid limitation, congratulations on that by the way, you also managed to throw out Tom Brady, Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, etc. etc. etc.

Yeah man they didn't lose the starting job again, Tebow can't win the starting job vs Orton or Sanchez. LOL

NUB
11-05-2012, 09:59 PM
Let me get this straight.

The coaching staff refuses to let Tebow start when Orton is clearly a bad QB. Eventually, Tebow starts. Tebow wins games. Tebow wins playoff game. Tebow's not starting earlier is an indictment against the coaching staff, no wait, per this argument it is an indictment against... Tebow? Makes perfect sense.

errand
11-05-2012, 10:02 PM
How is this even a point? What kind of argument is this?


He can't win the job by outplaying the other guy...he only gets it when the coach pulls the plug on the incumbent

NUB
11-05-2012, 10:03 PM
He can't win the job by outplaying the other guy...he only gets it when the coach pulls the plug on the incumbent

And when Tebow ends up taking a 1-4 team to the playoffs, this remains an indictment against Tebow? I'm sorry, but how do you not see how utterly, 100% ridiculous that thought process is?

errand
11-05-2012, 10:06 PM
Let me get this straight.

The coaching staff refuses to let Tebow start when Orton is clearly a bad QB. Eventually, Tebow starts. Tebow wins games. Tebow wins playoff game. Tebow's not starting earlier is an indictment against the coaching staff, no wait, per this argument it is an indictment against... Tebow? Makes perfect sense.

So how come a talent such as he cannot unseat such journeymen like Orton and Sanchez in pre-season and practice? Sure if you want to say the Broncos were blind to his amazing QBing skills...but the Jets too? C'mon man....

Tombstone RJ
11-05-2012, 10:09 PM
And when Tebow ends up taking a 1-4 team to the playoffs, this remains an indictment against Tebow? I'm sorry, but how do you not see how utterly, 100% ridiculous that thought process is?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, until TT can get his completion percentage above just 50-55% he's not going to play. However, if he can do this then I think he could have some consistent success. It's on TT to get better at passing and he's had a lot of time to get better.

NUB
11-05-2012, 10:11 PM
So how come a talent such as he cannot unseat such journeymen like Orton and Sanchez in pre-season and practice? Sure if you want to say the Broncos were blind to his amazing QBing skills...but the Jets too? C'mon man....

I'm just gonna say it. You are a moron if you think Tebow's not beating Orton out of a job is an indictment against Tebow. It was an indictment against the coaching staff, period. It is a failure in talent assessment. Like, say, leaving Joe Mays as the starter for a few years. Does that resonate a little better for you? Or do you think Mays remaining a starter is an indictment against his backups? Fool. As for New York, you can't assume. The situation has yet to unfold beyond Sanchez, who was signed to a new contract, being shoehorned into the starting role.

errand
11-05-2012, 10:12 PM
And when Tebow ends up taking a 1-4 team to the playoffs, this remains an indictment against Tebow? I'm sorry, but how do you not see how utterly, 100% ridiculous that thought process is?

A lot of other things happened besides the QB switch....dolphins blowing a 15 point 4th qtr lead and failed to cover an obvious onside kick....Bears losing Jay Cutler and their RB running out of bounds stopping the clock, and then later in OT fumbling the ball....Raiders losing in week 17 when a win would've put them in playoffs instead of us...defense stepping up....return to health of DJ and Elvis to name a few.

But again, the only reason he came off the bench was because the guy before him went 1-4....not because the coaching staff had an epiphany and saw all-world talent

errand
11-05-2012, 10:15 PM
I'm just gonna say it. You are a moron if you think Tebow's not beating Orton out of a job is an indictment against Tebow. It was an indictment against the coaching staff, period. It is a failure in talent assessment. Like, say, leaving Joe Mays as the starter for a few years. Does that resonate a little better for you? Or do you think Mays remaining a starter is an indictment against his backups? Fool. As for New York, you can't assume. The situation has yet to unfold beyond Sanchez, who was signed to a new contract, being shoehorned into the starting role.

The failure in talent assessment came in April of 2010 when McDaniels wasted a 1st round pick on a non throwing **** from UF

So to summarize your argument, the Broncos and Jets have suck ass coaching staffs who don't know a great QB when they see one

NUB
11-05-2012, 10:17 PM
The failure in talent assessment came in April of 2010 when McDaniels wasted a 1st round pick on a non throwing **** from UF

I'm sorry you have an aversion to playoff wins.

We should have stuck with Orton. Of course, with Orton the ship would have sank completely and Peyton Manning never would have dared come to this team. Ahh, what a quandary.

errand
11-05-2012, 10:21 PM
I'm sorry you have an aversion to playoff wins.

We should have stuck with Orton. Of course, with Orton the ship would have sank completely and Peyton Manning never would have dared come to this team. Ahh, what a quandary.

Nope, I have an aversion to morons who think Tebow was the sole reason we made playoffs last season.

Orton played himself out of a job....and I appreciate Tebow helping us win a playoff game just as much as I appreciated any back-up QB we've had that did ok like Gus and Gary and Norris...but the bottom line is they were back-ups for a reason

NUB
11-05-2012, 10:35 PM
Nope, I have an aversion to morons who think Tebow was the sole reason we made playoffs last season.

Orton played himself out of a job....and I appreciate Tebow helping us win a playoff game just as much as I appreciated any back-up QB we've had that did ok like Gus and Gary and Norris...but the bottom line is they were back-ups for a reason

What reason was there for Tebow being a backup behind Orton when the results of each is so heavily skewed toward the former? Could it be a failure of the coaching staff? I really want you to explain how Tebow's not starting is an indictment of him when, given the chance, he took (excuse me, "helped") a 1-4 squad to the playoffs. Would it not make infinitely more sense that, had Tebow failed, you would be correct with that assessment? How can you be correct in both worlds? By having your cake and eating it too? By using monstrously stupid logic? I don't know.

BroncoBeavis
11-05-2012, 11:29 PM
I'm sorry you have an aversion to playoff wins.

We should have stuck with Orton. Of course, with Orton the ship would have sank completely and Peyton Manning never would have dared come to this team. Ahh, what a quandary.

KO would be in year one of a new contract if this guy's dreams had come true.

BroncoBeavis
11-05-2012, 11:33 PM
So how come a talent such as he cannot unseat such journeymen like Orton and Sanchez in pre-season and practice? Sure if you want to say the Broncos were blind to his amazing QBing skills...but the Jets too? C'mon man....

The Jets just signed Dirty Sanchez to a way overpriced deal. I think it was in that article someone posted of the worst 10 contracts in the NFL. How smart can they be?

DENVERDUI55
11-06-2012, 08:33 AM
LOL at all the posters claiming that NFL GM's would take Tebow over Newton. Newton isn't even that good but he is better than Tebow.

broncswin
11-06-2012, 08:44 AM
This tebow shiat is pure crazy!! Loved last season, but thank god for PFM...Cam is better than tebow

BroncoBeavis
11-06-2012, 08:48 AM
LOL at all the posters claiming that NFL GM's would take Tebow over Newton. Newton isn't even that good but he is better than Tebow.

See, last year you would've been talking about how much of the real deal Cam was.

He's no more destined to greatness than TT. Likely less so when you look at their characters.

DENVERDUI55
11-06-2012, 08:57 AM
See, last year you would've been talking about how much of the real deal Cam was.

He's no more destined to greatness than TT. Likely less so when you look at their characters.

I have never been a CAM fan. That being said character will only get you so far it will ultimately come down to skill and Tebow's passing skills are one of te worst of all time.

Lestat
11-06-2012, 09:28 AM
That's quite the requirement. Not only did you exclude Tim Tebow with your stupid limitation, congratulations on that by the way, you also managed to throw out Tom Brady, Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, etc. etc. etc.

Brady and Warner got their jobs due to injuries to the starter and never gave them back. that's not due to the starter sucking...

Lestat
11-06-2012, 09:29 AM
LOL at all the posters claiming that NFL GM's would take Tebow over Newton. Newton isn't even that good but he is better than Tebow.

NFL GM's would take Tebow over Newton.
as a special teams player.

Bacchus
11-06-2012, 09:42 AM
Nope, I have an aversion to morons who think Tebow was the sole reason we made playoffs last season.

Orton played himself out of a job....and I appreciate Tebow helping us win a playoff game just as much as I appreciated any back-up QB we've had that did ok like Gus and Gary and Norris...but the bottom line is they were back-ups for a reason

I appreciate Tebow helping Denver get Peyton Manning.

TonyR
10-17-2014, 12:57 PM
If I had to pick somebody as the most spectacular quarterback in football, I’d have to choose Aaron Rodgers. It’s surreal to see what Rodgers can do sometimes; nobody snaps off 40-yard passes while his body’s moving in the opposite direction in between steps like Rodgers. The touchdown pass he threw to Randall Cobb last week was just unfair, which is classic Rodgers.

You know who might represent a pretty good competitor for Rodgers? Cam Newton, who has been one of the best quarterbacks in football this year with virtually nothing around him. All of his running backs are hurt. His offensive line sucks. Greg Olsen and Kelvin Benjamin, his two best receivers, are dealing with injuries. That should be a problem for Newton. It’s not, because he isn’t operating in a space where things that are typically problems matter. Let’s look at a critical fourth-quarter drive from last week’s tie with the Bengals to see how that works.

It’s normally a problem if your right tackle disintegrates into ash in front of you on third-and-7, right? Not so much if you’re Cam Newton.

http://i.minus.com/ibnfyFY0OfrUhg.gif

That’s incredible. The Bengals have Carlos Dunlap treat right tackle Nate Chandler like he’s a prop and green-dogging linebacker Vontaze Burfict run past stumbling right guard Trai Turner. If Newton takes one false step, he’s toast. Instead, with the entire right side of his offensive line on their ass, Newton casually takes a half-step back from Dunlap, scrambles intelligently away from what is now a flock of four Bengals, blows up Wallace Gilberry’s angle of pursuit, and casually glides to the sticks for a huge first down.

You like passes? What about passes on fourth down? Those are even more fun, right? Here’s Newton at the helm of the riverboat:

http://i.minus.com/iS0JEA7M5Broo.gif

That’s insane. I chose the broadcast angle over the All-22 angle for the GIF because I wanted to point out that even the hard camera operator couldn’t believe this pass got through. The Bengals have the exact play call they were hoping for here, with man coverage with several underneath zones designed to take away the throwing lanes for a slant. They get a pair of slants on the strong side. The defender on the inside slant, recognizing that Newton is going for the backside slant to Benjamin, comes off his man to try to jump the route. The zone defender sees the pass developing and tries to get over. Even Terence Newman, the cornerback in coverage on Benjamin, can see the pass coming.

And none of it matters one bit, because Newton fires a slant in to Benjamin so hard and with such perfect timing that there’s nothing anybody can do. The pass has such velocity that the defenders trying to tip it away don’t make it into the air for their despairing dives until the ball is already past them. The hard camera does a double take. Newman doesn’t even have a prayer of getting in the way of the pass. The only hope is that Benjamin drops the pass or that George Iloka can jar the ball out with a big hit, and Newton puts such zip on the pass that Benjamin has enough time to catch it and brace himself for impact.

This isn’t last year’s Panthers. The defense, third in DVOA last year, is 28th through six weeks. Injuries and retirements have slowed the running game, Newton aside, to a crawl; after averaging 3.9 yards per carry last year, Carolina’s assorted running backs have produced just 2.8 yards per rush this year. They’re a flawed team in a flawed division. Given that they needed a missed chip shot to come away with a draw in Cincinnati last weekend, they’re probably lucky to be 3-2-1. Of course, they’re also lucky to have Newton as their quarterback.
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nfl-week-7-picks-it-can-only-go-up-from-here/

Action
10-17-2014, 01:01 PM
Cam is one of my favorite QBs in the league. Keep gets more national attention because of 49ers - but I think Cam is a much better player that doesn't have the benefit of elite coaching.

Imagine Cam with Chip Kelly....he'd probably win MVP.

TonyR
10-17-2014, 01:02 PM
Imagine Cam with Chip Kelly....he'd probably win MVP.

Dear god, swap out Foles for Newton and they'd be marching the Lombardi down Broad St. this coming February.

errand
10-17-2014, 09:55 PM
This thread has so much fail by the usual suspects.....comedy gold!

Chrissy Rules
10-17-2014, 09:58 PM
Cam is one of my favorite QBs in the league. Keep gets more national attention because of 49ers - but I think Cam is a much better player that doesn't have the benefit of elite coaching.

Imagine Cam with Chip Kelly....he'd probably win MVP.

Foles is gold compared to Cam..

Lestat
10-17-2014, 10:05 PM
Foles is gold compared to Cam..

If Foles is Gold then Cam is King Solomon.
Cam is developing into one of the better QB's in the NFL.
I wanna see what he can do with more weapons around him. Dude is a beast now and he barely has a legit WR corp.

ram29jackson
10-17-2014, 10:18 PM
Cam is one of my favorite QBs in the league. Keep gets more national attention because of 49ers - but I think Cam is a much better player that doesn't have the benefit of elite coaching.

Imagine Cam with Chip Kelly....he'd probably win MVP.

or constantly be injured

Chrissy Rules
10-17-2014, 11:26 PM
If Foles is Gold then Cam is King Solomon.
Cam is developing into one of the better QB's in the NFL.
I wanna see what he can do with more weapons around him. Dude is a beast now and he barely has a legit WR corp.

I agree w/ you on a lot of things babe but Cam Newton will NEVER be one of the best QB's in the NFL for one reason..his lack of leadership..he's way immature and thinks he's better then he is. Foles I really appreciate as a QB..he is going to be something special. Not Peyton special nobody will ever touch my man on his elite status but Foles in a few years ..oh yes I see it..I bet you he wins a SB before Schmuck or Cam..an a MVP at that.

Shananahan
10-17-2014, 11:52 PM
http://img.pandawhale.com/68590-George-Costanza-shrug-gif-IsUf.gif

Action
10-17-2014, 11:58 PM
Foles is gold compared to Cam..

False.

Action
10-18-2014, 12:00 AM
or constantly be injured

Doubt it - as Cam really wants to be a passer. He's the only rushing type QB in the league that can actually pass and wants to stay in the pocket.

I'm talking about the Kaepernicks, Wilsons, RG3s of the league.

Chip Kelly is an extremely smart coach and would coach Cam Newton up with injuries in mind.

Action
10-18-2014, 12:00 AM
Nick Foles is slow as **** as is the only thing holding that offense from dominating the NFL.

Nick Foles has the same type of mobility as Philip Rivers and Kyle Orton...but he's only 25.

Let me also add - how did this Chrissy bitch become so ****ing stupid? Someone needs to judo chop her in the throat and get her off the forums.

I'd try the whole ripping balls off routine with her, but my hands would probably be full of dust if I reached down there...

Chrissy Rules
10-18-2014, 12:35 AM
Nick Foles is slow as **** as is the only thing holding that offense from dominating the NFL.

Nick Foles has the same type of mobility as Philip Rivers and Kyle Orton...but he's only 25.

Let me also add - how did this Chrissy b**** become so ****ing stupid? Someone needs to judo chop her in the throat and get her off the forums.

I'd try the whole ripping balls off routine with her, but my hands would probably be full of dust if I reached down there...

Foles is gold..find a way to deal with it and embrace it cause like it or not hes gonna be wearing that gold LONG before Cam the Sham..and I WILL remind you.. bet that..He outplayed Schmuck now didn't he..heeheee

Chrissy Rules
10-18-2014, 12:40 AM
And by the way Action what is up w/ your name calling..every post you do that to people..Are you trying to compensate for other areas that you are lacking in? that was a dumb question..OF COURSE YOU ARE... Must be a small small world ...heeheeheee

Dedhed
10-18-2014, 06:21 AM
Doubt it - as Cam really wants to be a passer. He's the only rushing type QB in the league that can actually pass and wants to stay in the pocket.

um....Russell Wilson is far better at the above the Newton.

Action
10-18-2014, 09:32 AM
um....Russell Wilson is far better at the above the Newton.

No he's not :spit:

He's not better - and to even say he's "far" better tells me you don't really watch either of them play - or you don't know what you're watching.

Dedhed
10-18-2014, 09:46 AM
No he's not :spit:

He's not better - and to even say he's "far" better tells me you don't really watch either of them play - or you don't know what you're watching.

Wilson is probably second only to Luck when it comes to being mobile and still looking down the field. Cam has come a long way in terms of being a pocket passer, but when he's flushed from the pocket he's a rusher, not a passer.

LikeABoss5820
10-18-2014, 09:55 AM
Wilson averages 213 passing yards per game.

To put his name with Cam is disrepecful to Cam.

Cam is a beast, big fan of his.

Has no one to throw too, worst OL in football and still dominates.

Dedhed
10-18-2014, 10:16 AM
Wilson averages 213 passing yards per game.

To put his name with Cam is disrepecful to Cam.

Cam is a beast, big fan of his.

Has no one to throw too, worst OL in football and still dominates.

Newton averaged 211 passing yards per game last year.

Action
10-18-2014, 10:21 AM
Wilson is probably second only to Luck when it comes to being mobile and still looking down the field. Cam has come a long way in terms of being a pocket passer, but when he's flushed from the pocket he's a rusher, not a passer.

So now you're talking about being mobile and passing outside the pocket - when my original statement you disagreed with was talking about passing in the pocket.

Just go look at how many times Wilson throws in a season vs Newton. Better yet - combine passing attempts and rushing attempts of each player and compare. It's pretty obvious who has more responsibility for their offense.

Wilson is out here throwing in the 100+ yard range in a game (on a regular basis) and winning.

To me - the difference is so big that - the only way you can come to a conclusion that Wilson is better is if you only watch sportscenter or some other retarded show - because if you actually see both them play and take into account scheme and talent - you'd have to be damn near retarded to even think Wilson is better.

Dedhed
10-18-2014, 10:28 AM
So now you're talking about being mobile and passing outside the pocket - when my original statement you disagreed with was talking about passing in the pocket.

Just go look at how many times Wilson throws in a season vs Newton. Better yet - combine passing attempts and rushing attempts of each player and compare. It's pretty obvious who has more responsibility for their offense.

Wilson is out here throwing in the 100+ yard range in a game and winning.

To me - the difference is so big that - the only way you can come to a conclusion that Wilson is better is if you only watch sportscenter or some other retarded show - because if you actually see both them play and take into account scheme and talent - you'd have to be damn near retarded to even think Wilson is better.You're clearly hopelessly biased here. I don't like either of them. Everything you mention above has nothing to do with the QBs, but the teams they play for.

Cam has more responsibility, sure, which means he has more opportunities, and he also makes more mistakes.

DENVERDUI55
10-18-2014, 10:30 AM
Wilson is a better QB by far where it matters most. That is throwing the football, avoiding sacks and knowing when to run. Throw in leadership and super bowl ring and it isn't a discussion.

LikeABoss5820
10-18-2014, 10:45 AM
Wilson is a better QB by far where it matters most. That is throwing the football, avoiding sacks and knowing when to run. Throw in leadership and super bowl ring and it isn't a discussion.

Wilson > Marino off Super Bowl rings right guy?

Wilson isnt close to Cam, stop it.

BroncosfanGuy
10-18-2014, 12:47 PM
Wilson > Marino off Super Bowl rings right guy?

Wilson isnt close to Cam, stop it.

Wilson is better than Cam. you ignored the 4 or 5 other areas where the poster said Wilson is better than Cam and focused on 1 also

DENVERDUI55
10-18-2014, 01:07 PM
Wilson > Marino off Super Bowl rings right guy?

Wilson isnt close to Cam, stop it.

I mentioned more than one area. Take the ring out and he is still better. Denver shut down Lynch in the SB and Wilson won the game on 3rd down conversions.

DENVERDUI55
10-18-2014, 01:55 PM
What a great reread. I forgot about this thread and there are some posters that probably cringed it got bumped.

Action
10-18-2014, 01:56 PM
Wilson is a better QB by far where it matters most. That is throwing the football, avoiding sacks and knowing when to run. Throw in leadership and super bowl ring and it isn't a discussion.

Better at throwing the football? Hilarious!

Better at avoiding sacks and knowing when to run?

Last year:

Wilson: 407 throwing attempts 44 sacks

Newton: 474 throwing attempts 43 sacks

Hilarious!

Wilson had 8 fumbles last year and 4 this year.

Cam had 1 last year and 2 this year.

Can you even imagine Cam on the Seahawks?

Orangemane posters constantly make up bull**** left and right and have no idea what the **** they're talking about.

Why do you people even post when it's clear you don't watch or know anything?

LikeABoss5820
10-18-2014, 01:56 PM
Wilson is better than Cam. you ignored the 4 or 5 other areas where the poster said Wilson is better than Cam and focused on 1 also

Wilson isnt better at throwing the ball.

Nor is he better at reading a defense, he's an average pocket passer (Wilson is)

And Wilson was sacked more in less pass attempts, wanna get owned some more, we can keep going frodo boy.

LikeABoss5820
10-18-2014, 01:59 PM
Action dropping HAMMERS on the Wilson slops.

Action
10-18-2014, 02:04 PM
Anyone claiming wilson is better at throwing the football is ****ing retarded point blank - clearly doesn't watch football. That conservative game managing offense the seahawks run is hilarious.

Wilson is on a loaded ass team. Even with that - 3 times last year he threw for 40% (Almost 30 with 1 more incompletion)... that's tim tebow status.

Wilson is a game manager that excels outside the pockets and need a GREAT run game to be productive and play well.

BroncosfanGuy
10-18-2014, 02:05 PM
Wilson isnt better at throwing the ball.

Nor is he better at reading a defense, he's an average pocket passer (Wilson is)

Nope.

Wilson is better at nearly every metric RE:playing QB, specifically the ones measuring efficiency.


higher completion %
higher Y/A
higher AY/A
more TD passes per game played
higher TD %
lower INT %
a rating 13 points higher than Newton's
higher career QBR
more 4th Qaurter comebacks
more GW drives
better W/L record



if you used PFR's advanced passing metrics, Wilson blows Newton away again with higher:


Y/A+
NY/A+
AY/A+
ANY/A+
Cmp%+
TD%+
Int%+


Thus far, Newton has done 2 things better than Wilson. He's taken fewer sacks per passing play and he's played a better GL RB.

Tombstone RJ
10-18-2014, 02:06 PM
The question is who would you build your team around if you had the choice between Wilson and Newton? I'd pick Wilson but that's just me.

BroncosfanGuy
10-18-2014, 02:07 PM
Even with that - 3 times last year he threw for 40%

and he still has a career completion % higher than Newton

DENVERDUI55
10-18-2014, 02:08 PM
Anyone claiming wilson is better at throwing the football is ****ing retarded point blank - clearly doesn't watch football. That conservative game managing offense the seahawks run is hilarious.

Wilson is on a loaded ass team. Even with that - 3 times last year he threw for 40% (Almost 30 with 1 more incompletion)... that's tim tebow status.

Wilson is a game manager that excels outside the pockets and need a GREAT run game to be productive and play well.

People are entitled to their own opinions. Newton couldn't win a home playoff game last year with the 2nd best D in the league so chew on that.

LikeABoss5820
10-18-2014, 02:09 PM
The question is who would you build your team around if you had the choice between Wilson and Newton? I'd pick Wilson but that's just me.

Is the LOB and Lynch coming with Wilson?

Thats why Seattle is so good, not Wilson.

Newton by a landslide.

Not close.

LikeABoss5820
10-18-2014, 02:09 PM
People are entitled to their own opinions. Newton couldn't win a home playoff game last year with the 2nd best D in the league so chew on that.

Because losing to SF, one of the top teams in the league is so awful?

BroncosfanGuy
10-18-2014, 02:10 PM
Newton by a landslide.

Not close.
the numbers say otherwise, but to each his own. I mean Chrissy would take Foles over Luck despite all evidence to the contrary too so hey....

LikeABoss5820
10-18-2014, 02:11 PM
and he still has a career completion % higher than Newton

Because he's not asked to throw the ball much, dumbass.

He's never thrown 40 passes, NEVER won a game in which the other team scores 25+ points.

Game.

Manager.

He won a ****ing playoff game with a line of 9/18 for 108 yards. Thats Tebow status.

Tombstone RJ
10-18-2014, 02:12 PM
Is the LOB and Lynch coming with Wilson?

Thats why Seattle is so good, not Wilson.

Newton by a landslide.

Not close.

Well, that's just like, your opinion, man. Also, Carolina isn't exactly depleted of talent. Just say'n.

Action
10-18-2014, 02:13 PM
Wilson is better at nearly every metric RE:playing QB, specifically the ones measuring efficiency.


higher completion %
higher Y/A
higher AY/A
more TD passes per game played
higher TD %
lower INT %
a rating 13 points higher than Newton's
higher career QBR
more 4th Qaurter comebacks
more GW drives
better W/L record



if you used PFR's advanced passing metrics, Wilson blows Newton away again with higher:


Y/A+
NY/A+
AY/A+
ANY/A+
Cmp%+
TD%+
Int%+


Thus far, Newton has done 2 things better than Wilson. He's taken fewer sacks per passing play and he's played a better GL RB.

Well no **** those are going to be better - are we going to judge their team, defense, talent, coaching staff, and system? Better W/L record? Are you ****ing kidding me? So Wilson's W/L is better than Aaron Rodgers I guess he's better than Rodgers too.

That's why I emphasize WATCHING football. You compare these stats yet the variables that are out of control of both QBs that factor into these stats are dramatically different.

You really think Wilson would be leading in this stats had they switched teams?

This is beyond opinion - this is absolute stupid logic.

LikeABoss5820
10-18-2014, 02:14 PM
Well, that's just like, your opinion, man. Also, Carolina isn't exactly depleted of talent. Just say'n.

Worst OL in football, overpaid RB's, **** secondary, Hardy isnt playing this year.

Other than Benjamin, terrible WR's.

But sure, they're just as talented as Seattle is.

CEH
10-18-2014, 02:15 PM
Because he's not asked to throw the ball much, dumbass.

He's never thrown 40 passes, NEVER won a game in which the other team scores 25+ points.

Game.

Manager.

He won a ****ing playoff game with a line of 9/18 for 108 yards. Thats Tebow status.

and John Elway (12-22-123-0-1) status in a super bowl.

Action
10-18-2014, 02:16 PM
the numbers say otherwise, but to each his own. I mean Chrissy would take Foles over Luck despite all evidence to the contrary too so hey....

If you're trying to draw a line from Foles vs Luck to Cam vs Wilson

Foles = Wilson
Luck = Cam

1 benefits from coaching staff and system, and talent

The other doesn't, yet their whole offense is built around them.

What a ****ing coincidence Wilson and Foles have/had dominate running games huh?

LikeABoss5820
10-18-2014, 02:17 PM
and John Elway (12-22-123-0-1) status in a super bowl.

You're not comparing Wilson to Elway, are you?

Please tell me you aren't................

CEH
10-18-2014, 02:18 PM
You're not comparing Wilson to Elway, are you?

Please tell me you aren't................

No but comparing Wilson to Tebow is laughable. Just pointing out that last sentence didn't prove anything in your argument.

Action
10-18-2014, 02:18 PM
Well, that's just like, your opinion, man. Also, Carolina isn't exactly depleted of talent. Just say'n.

You couldn't name 2 WR's on the Panthers without searching google and you have no idea who any of their healthy RBs are.

Don't even try to post like you know - because all those players are garbage and no one knows.

Action
10-18-2014, 02:19 PM
No but comparing Wilson to Tebow is laughable.

So saying that Wilson has played as bad/worse than Tebow is laughable?

In what way? Is it not the truth? :spit:

BroncosfanGuy
10-18-2014, 02:20 PM
Because he's not asked to throw the ball much


hmmm, yet Wilson still has 10 more TD passes than Newton since he's been in the league. This despite the fact he's 'not asked to throw the ball much' and not having a WR anywhere near Steve Smiff's ability.

CEH
10-18-2014, 02:21 PM
So saying that Wilson has played as bad/worse than Tebow is laughable?

In what way? Is it not the truth? :spit:

Anyone with a pair of eyes knows Wilson is better than Tebow.

Action
10-18-2014, 02:21 PM
So BroncosfanGuy won't admit he had no idea what he was talking about in reference to Wilson knowing when to run and avoiding sacks - but now just going to try and act like Wilson is a better passer. LOL

Wilson is not a better passer and struggles from the pocket - everyone knows that.

Action
10-18-2014, 02:22 PM
Anyone with a pair of eyes knows Wilson is better than Tebow.

Anyone with 2nd grade level reading comprehension is wondering who said Tebow is better than Wilson.

Action
10-18-2014, 02:23 PM
hmmm, yet Wilson still has 10 more TD passes than Newton since he's been in the league. This despite the fact he's 'not asked to throw the ball much' and not having a WR anywhere near Steve Smiff's ability.

Because Wilson plays on of the best coaching staffs in the league and has a better overall offensive talent around him.

Look at how Kubiak and the Ravens are using Smith - and compare it to Carolina.

But you'd probably have no idea - because you just look at stats.

LikeABoss5820
10-18-2014, 02:26 PM
No but comparing Wilson to Tebow is laughable. Just pointing out that last sentence didn't prove anything in your argument.

Well let's see.

Here's some games from the past couple years.

14 for 28, 126 yards, 0 TD's, 1 INT. Still had a chance to win vs Dal, LOSS.

9/18 for 103 yards in a PLAYOFF GAME. WON.

8/19, 142 yards, WIN.

12/23, 123 yards, WIN.

10/18, 139 yards, WIN.

11/27, 108 yards, LOSS.

Thats from last year, and one game this year.

Most overrated QB in football, if they struggle passing yall will just say he has no one to throw too.

BroncosfanGuy
10-18-2014, 02:27 PM
So BroncosfanGuy won't admit he had no idea what he was talking about in reference to Wilson knowing when to run and avoiding sacks - but now just going to try and act like Wilson is a better passer. LOL

I have posted a laundry list of metrics that shows Wilson is not only better, but much better at QB than Newton. So far action and 5820 (as opposed to 5280?) have posted emoticons. Please, show me where Newton is better. He's only better in volume-based metrics such as total yardage. And even then, that is struck down by the fact that Wilson has a higher average per attempt. Meaning all attempts being equal Wilson throws for more yardage.

There is no evidence outside of emoticons to support Newton being a better QB than Wilson.

BroncosfanGuy
10-18-2014, 02:28 PM
Look at how Kubiak and the Ravens are using Smith - and compare it to Carolina.


agreed, he has a better QB throwing him the ball now. ;)

LikeABoss5820
10-18-2014, 02:28 PM
Like i said, we'll see how good he is once he gets paid and they lose some key defensive players, Lynch leaves.

And he has to carry them a little more like Newton/Luck do now.

Tombstone RJ
10-18-2014, 02:28 PM
You couldn't name 2 WR's on the Panthers without searching google and you have no idea who any of their healthy RBs are.

Don't even try to post like you know - because all those players are garbage and no one knows.

Cam had Steve Smith for years and now that SS is on a team with a decent QB he's having a great year. Go figure.

LikeABoss5820
10-18-2014, 02:31 PM
Steve Smith is good but he's hardly Megatron.

Wilson has a good OL, top 3 RB, pretty solid receivers, good TE's.

And an all-world defense.

I mean its not even compareable to look at the supporting casts.

Action
10-18-2014, 02:32 PM
I have posted a laundry list of metrics that shows Wilson is not only better, but much better at QB than Newton. So far action and 5820 (as opposed to 5280?) have posted emoticons. Please, show me where Newton is better. He's only better in volume-based metrics such as total yardage. And even then, that is struck down by the fact that Wilson has a higher average per attempt. Meaning all attempts being equal Wilson throws for more yardage.

There is no evidence outside of emoticons to support Newton being a better QB than Wilson.

And the fact that you haven't even acknowledged any of the variables that play into QBs earning those stats in which they have no control over - tells me you're nothing but an armchair poster.

There's a difference between a player have better stats, and a player that's actually better than another player. Any fan who follows sports knows this - and fans who just throw out metrics only to support an argument is just an amateur when it comes to understanding sports.

Are you also telling me that Foles is a better QB than Luck? Because you know - all the metrics last year tell me that he is.

Tombstone RJ
10-18-2014, 02:32 PM
Steve Smith is good but he's hardly Megatron.

Wilson has a good OL, top 3 RB, pretty solid receivers, good TE's.

And an all-world defense.

I mean its not even compareable to look at the supporting casts.

How was Carolina's defense last year?

Action
10-18-2014, 02:33 PM
Cam had Steve Smith for years and now that SS is on a team with a decent QB he's having a great year. Go figure.

You mean now he's on a team with a great coach and OC?

Are you telling me Smith didn't have any good years with Newton? :rofl:

LikeABoss5820
10-18-2014, 02:33 PM
How was Carolina's defense last year?

Good, i live in NC, it was smoke and mirrors.

Their secondary wasnt good.

Their Front 7 made their defense look better than it really is/was.

LikeABoss5820
10-18-2014, 02:37 PM
Newton's rookie year with Smith- 79 catches, 1394 yards, 7 TD's.

Second year- 73 catches, 1174 yards, 4 TD's.

Yawn.

CEH
10-18-2014, 02:37 PM
Tebow status to me is both KC games of 2011
Wilson is never tebow status so not buying using anything about tebow to downgrade Wilson

Tombstone RJ
10-18-2014, 02:37 PM
You mean now he's on a team with a great coach and OC?

Are you telling me Smith didn't have any good years with Newton? :rofl:

I'm saying Cam Newton has had some talent to work with.

LikeABoss5820
10-18-2014, 02:38 PM
Well let's see.

Here's some games from the past couple years.

14 for 28, 126 yards, 0 TD's, 1 INT. Still had a chance to win vs Dal, LOSS.

9/18 for 103 yards in a PLAYOFF GAME. WON.

8/19, 142 yards, WIN.

12/23, 123 yards, WIN.

10/18, 139 yards, WIN.

11/27, 108 yards, LOSS.

Thats from last year, and one game this year.

Most overrated QB in football, if they struggle passing yall will just say he has no one to throw too.

Any of the Wilson cock blabbers wanna respond to this or just admit defeat now?

BroncosfanGuy
10-18-2014, 02:39 PM
Newton's rookie year with Smith- 79 catches, 1394 yards, 7 TD's.

Second year- 73 catches, 1174 yards, 4 TD's.

Yawn.
you are making Wilson's case even stronger with this. Newton had the luxury of a bona fide #1 WR and an offence built completely around him yet Russell Wilson is outproducing him as a passer despite Doug Baldwin being his #1.

LikeABoss5820
10-18-2014, 02:41 PM
you are making Wilson's case even stronger with this. Newton had the luxury of a bona fide #1 WR and an offence built completely around him yet Russell Wilson is outproducing him as a passer despite Doug Baldwin being his #1.

Marshawn Lynch and an elite OL makes no different though?

Along with an all-world defense.

This sounds so much like the Brady/Manning weapons vs team debate.

Although one weapon makes up for that.

Action
10-18-2014, 02:42 PM
How was Carolina's defense last year?

You want to talk about last year? Look at the playoffs.

Wilson beat the Saints by completing 9 passes on 18 attempts for 106 yards. What does that tell you?

They both played the 49ers in the playoffs.

Newton passed for 52 more yards on the same amount of attempts.

Both threw a touchdown - Newton threw 2 ints...but what was the REAL difference?

Check that Seattle rushing game (While Newton led the Panthers in rushing against the 49ers).

Both are in 2 completely different situations (Wilson being in a much better one)...so to sit here and pull out only stats shows ones absolutely dumb ****ery.

Action
10-18-2014, 02:43 PM
Tebow status to me is both KC games of 2011
Wilson is never tebow status so not buying using anything about tebow to downgrade Wilson

So throwing for 40% and being 1 pass away from 30% isn't tebow status.

Winning a game completing 9/18 and 100 yards isn't tebow status.

GTFOH thats exactly what Tebow status is.

BroncosfanGuy
10-18-2014, 02:46 PM
okie dokie, action. if i'm following correctly...

Russell Wilson>Cam Newton (this has been established)

Russell Wilson=Tim Tebow

Therefore Tim Tebow>Cam Newton

And the Tebow comparison takes us all the way back to the 1st page. Way to tie it all together, action.

Tombstone RJ
10-18-2014, 02:46 PM
You want to talk about last year? Look at the playoffs.

Wilson beat the Saints by completing 9 passes on 18 attempts for 106 yards. What does that tell you?

They both played the 49ers in the playoffs.

Newton passed for 52 more yards on the same amount of attempts.

Both threw a touchdown - Newton threw 2 ints...but what was the REAL difference?

Check that Seattle rushing game (While Newton led the Panthers in rushing against the 49ers).

Both are in 2 completely different situations (Wilson being in a much better one)...so to sit here and pull out only stats shows ones absolutely dumb ****ery.

It tells me that Newton makes costly mistakes while Wilson does not.

Action
10-18-2014, 02:48 PM
you are making Wilson's case even stronger with this. Newton had the luxury of a bona fide #1 WR and an offence built completely around him yet Russell Wilson is outproducing him as a passer despite Doug Baldwin being his #1.

Funny how you've avoided the coaching aspect this whole time - and now you're just nitpicking 1 player.

Everyone knows Seattle has a better offense (I mean ALL THEIR PLAYERS THAT PLAY AS A UNIT) than Seattle - and the difference is not the QB.

LikeABoss5820
10-18-2014, 02:49 PM
9 for 18, 108 yards is Tebow status.

BroncosfanGuy
10-18-2014, 02:50 PM
Everyone knows Seattle has a better offense (I mean ALL THEIR PLAYERS THAT PLAY AS A UNIT) than Seattle - and the difference is not the QB.

I'd say they are about equal actually

LikeABoss5820
10-18-2014, 02:50 PM
It tells me that Newton makes costly mistakes while Wilson does not.

Wilson has a better defense, better run game, better OL, isnt asked to do as much as Cam or even Luck.

So he doesnt have to do much, therefore he can manage the game.

Action
10-18-2014, 02:51 PM
It tells me that Newton makes costly mistakes while Wilson does not.

Oh so you're just going to completely disregard the running game?

You don't think 1 QB having a running game and the other not having a running game played any aspect into that?

Do you know anything about football?

I honestly think football is just too tough to understand for some of you. There are so many variables and aspects that go into every discussion - most of you can't comprehend more than a few variables at any given moment.

Look - I'm smart as **** - I have been as a young and I've spent time trying to teach my nephews different concepts of math and things of that nature and sometimes - there is just too many things that go on that some peoples brain gets overloaded.

This is what it happening here - you're not looking at ALL the variables that account into a player getting a W and having certain statistics.

BroncosfanGuy
10-18-2014, 02:51 PM
Wilson has a better defense, better run game, better OL, isnt asked to do as much as Cam or even Luck.

So he doesnt have to do much, therefore he can manage the game.

a game manager has thrown for more TD passes than Newton since said game manager entered the league.

Action
10-18-2014, 02:52 PM
I'd say they are about equal actually

So you take out Wilson and Cam Newton and you'd say they're about equal?

Please confirm this.

BroncosfanGuy
10-18-2014, 02:53 PM
Look - I'm smart as **** - I have been as a young and I've spent time trying to teach my nephews different concepts of math

nice, then can you tell me if I used the transitive property correctly when we determined a page back that Tebow is better than Newton?

LikeABoss5820
10-18-2014, 02:53 PM
a game manager has thrown for more TD passes than Newton since said game manager entered the league.

YEP and had many Tebow-like games to boot.

Action
10-18-2014, 02:54 PM
So take out Wilson, Cam Newton - Panthers and Seahawks are equal when it comes to coaching staff and players.

Is this guy serious...

errand
10-18-2014, 02:54 PM
and John Elway (12-22-123-0-1) status in a super bowl.

But that also illustrates his point....Elway had a very good defense and all world offense in SBXXXII.....in the other SB's where he didn't have great team mates, those kind of numbers resulted in 55-10 fistings

BroncosfanGuy
10-18-2014, 02:54 PM
So you take out Wilson and Cam Newton and you'd say they're about equal?

Please confirm this.

Wait. what does Newton have to do with what you posted here?


Everyone knows Seattle has a better offense (I mean ALL THEIR PLAYERS THAT PLAY AS A UNIT) than Seattle - and the difference is not the QB.

Action
10-18-2014, 02:56 PM
Wait. what does Newton have to do with what you posted here?

Typo - you obviously knew what I meant. Seattle has a better offense/coaching staff than Carolina.

BroncosfanGuy
10-18-2014, 02:57 PM
Typo

so you agree that Seattle is about = Seattle? I mean all things being equal, they are about the same yeah? more or less?

DENVERDUI55
10-18-2014, 02:57 PM
okie dokie, action. if i'm following correctly...

Russell Wilson>Cam Newton (this has been established)

Russell Wilson=Tim Tebow

Therefore Tim Tebow>Cam Newton

And the Tebow comparison takes us all the way back to the 1st page. Way to tie it all together, action.
Which leads us back to the beginning of the post. Look at all these morons claiming Tebow is the real deal.


I haven't dodged ANY questions. Answer: The majority of them, if not all. Also, its Tebow's superior work ethic, leadership and, most importantly, his mental faculties that make him a MUCH BETTER QB than Cam.

Your turn. I'm still very excited for your "answer".

Action
10-18-2014, 02:58 PM
so you agree that Seattle is about = Seattle? I mean all things being equal, they are about the same yeah? more or less?

No - seattle and seattle are completely different.

I do know - using your logic - that Foles is better than Luck though.

Action
10-18-2014, 02:59 PM
okie dokie, action. if i'm following correctly...

Russell Wilson>Cam Newton (this has been established)

Russell Wilson=Tim Tebow

Therefore Tim Tebow>Cam Newton

And the Tebow comparison takes us all the way back to the 1st page. Way to tie it all together, action.

I said Russell Wilson = Tim Tebow?

Or did I say Russell Wilson has had games that are like Tim Tebow performances?

BroncosfanGuy
10-18-2014, 03:03 PM
No - seattle and seattle are completely different.

I do know - using your logic - that Foles is better than Luck though.

? Luck is clearly better than Foles. honestly action, I have yet to hear anything that makes Newton better aside from emoticons, Newton throwing more INT vs like opponents, and Russell Wilson playing with a good D and Lynch.

Since you brought Luck into the conversation, I will head out of this thread with this....

“Russell Wilson is better than (Luck). No question,” (Chris) Harris said after the game, according to Vic Lombardi of CBS 4 in Denver...

Action
10-18-2014, 03:03 PM
Football fans are some of the stupidest people around -

1 discussion you only want to use stats to compare QBs. The next one you talk about how great a running game is for the offense. Then the next talks about coaching staff. Then the next talks about defense. ETC ETC. But you can't somehow tie these all together?

You idiots KNOW that it's not all about numbers or else you wouldn't even be discussing anything. If it was as simple as what number is bigger - any infant could tell you who a better player is when comparing 2 players in any sport.

Of course Wilson has better stats than Cam Newton - if he didn't it wouldn't even a ****ing discussion because Seattle is the better overall team than the Panthers.

Action
10-18-2014, 03:04 PM
? Luck is clearly better than Foles. honestly action, I have yet to hear anything that makes Newton better aside from emoticons, Newton throwing more INT vs like opponents, and Russell Wilson playing with a good D and Lynch.

Since you brought Luck into the conversation, I will head out of this thread with this....

“Russell Wilson is better than (Luck). No question,” (Chris) Harris said after the game, according to Vic Lombardi of CBS 4 in Denver...

I think that Luck is clearly better than Foles.

However using YOUR LOGIC - Foles is better than Luck - because the numbers say so.

And once again - you completely disregard the coaching staffs.

What a ****ing moron Hilarious!

BroncosfanGuy
10-18-2014, 03:05 PM
Of course Wilson is better than Cam Newton

agreed

Tombstone RJ
10-18-2014, 03:05 PM
Oh so you're just going to completely disregard the running game?

You don't think 1 QB having a running game and the other not having a running game played any aspect into that?

Do you know anything about football?

I honestly think football is just too tough to understand for some of you. There are so many variables and aspects that go into every discussion - most of you can't comprehend more than a few variables at any given moment.

Look - I'm smart as **** - I have been as a young and I've spent time trying to teach my nephews different concepts of math and things of that nature and sometimes - there is just too many things that go on that some peoples brain gets overloaded.

This is what it happening here - you're not looking at ALL the variables that account into a player getting a W and having certain statistics.

TLDNR...

Action
10-18-2014, 03:06 PM
I am a dumbass. I know nothing about sports and just look at numbers and see which is bigger.

What a coincidence. We agree with each other.

Action
10-18-2014, 03:08 PM
I have very low reading comprehension level and cannot read anything longer than a few sentences.

Oh damn, that sucks.

LikeABoss5820
10-18-2014, 03:13 PM
What a coincidence. We agree with each other.

ROFL!

LikeABoss5820
10-18-2014, 03:14 PM
Oh damn, that sucks.

Hilarious!

Tombstone RJ
10-18-2014, 03:18 PM
Oh damn, that sucks.

Tell me more about how smart you are!

Action
10-18-2014, 03:28 PM
Tell me more about your penis size!

Whoa there buddy... 4 words - keep your wife away.

CEH
10-18-2014, 03:33 PM
9 for 18, 108 yards is Tebow status.

So is 12 for 22

Tombstone RJ
10-18-2014, 03:39 PM
Whoa there buddy... 4 words - keep your wife away.

You claim to be pretty smart and and I'm sure you are but what confuses me is your inability to understand that it's simply my personal preference to have Wilson over Newton.

DENVERDUI55
10-18-2014, 03:41 PM
You claim to be pretty smart and and I'm sure you are but this is what confuses me is your inability to understand that it's simply my personal preference to have Wilson over Newton.

People are not allowed to have an opinion on the Mane. Each individual posters thoughts are the only correct ones.

Action
10-18-2014, 03:42 PM
So is 12 for 22

No. It's not.

Not only are you in double digits completions - you're over 50%.

Big Ben made a living early in his career with low double digit completions.

Action
10-18-2014, 03:43 PM
You claim to be pretty smart and and I'm sure you are but what confuses me is your inability to understand that it's simply my personal preference to have Wilson over Newton.

I do get that but most of my rants in this thread have been toward other posters.

Tombstone RJ
10-18-2014, 03:54 PM
I do get that but most of my rants in this thread have been toward other posters.

Yes, I'm sure that is why you change my posts and bring family into our civil discussion.

LikeABoss5820
10-18-2014, 04:09 PM
So is 12 for 22

Elway carried **** teams to make the SB, talk to me when Wilson does that.

Breaking he wont do that because hes not that type of player.

TonyR
10-18-2014, 06:01 PM
Which leads us back to the beginning of the post. Look at all these morons claiming Tebow is the real deal.

LOL I made that poor bastard my b*tch in this thread! No wonder he has me on ignore!

broncocalijohn
10-18-2014, 06:22 PM
Because he's not asked to throw the ball much, dumbass.

He's never thrown 40 passes, NEVER won a game in which the other team scores 25+ points.

Game.

Manager.

He won a ****ing playoff game with a line of 9/18 for 108 yards. Thats Tebow status.

Sounds like Elway's stat from super bowl 32.

Dedhed
10-19-2014, 06:11 AM
Well no **** those are going to be better - are we going to judge their team, defense, talent, coaching staff, and system? Better W/L record? Are you ****ing kidding me? So Wilson's W/L is better than Aaron Rodgers I guess he's better than Rodgers too.

That's why I emphasize WATCHING football. You compare these stats yet the variables that are out of control of both QBs that factor into these stats are dramatically different.

You really think Wilson would be leading in this stats had they switched teams?

This is beyond opinion - this is absolute stupid logic.

lulz. You want to talk logic after ignoring that Wilson is better in just about every way you can measure a QBs performance in favor of what you claim to see and silly hypothetical scenarios that have no bearing on reality. What you choose to see is the very definition of opinion.

What I see is one QB who makes the plays his team needs him to in order to give them the best chance to win, and is an involved leader. Then I see one QB who has all the talent in the world and wants everyone to know it isn't his fault if he fails, pouts when the going gets tough, and would rather be considered Superman than humble himself for the betterment of his team.

CEH
10-19-2014, 07:32 AM
Well let's see.

Here's some games from the past couple years.

14 for 28, 126 yards, 0 TD's, 1 INT. Still had a chance to win vs Dal, LOSS.

9/18 for 103 yards in a PLAYOFF GAME. WON.

8/19, 142 yards, WIN.

12/23, 123 yards, WIN.

10/18, 139 yards, WIN.

11/27, 108 yards, LOSS.

Thats from last year, and one game this year.

Most overrated QB in football, if they struggle passing yall will just say he has no one to throw too.

Looks like John Elway's game stats from 1984. You know the year Denver went 13-3 and Elway's' 2nd year in the league. Look it up.

My original point still stands. using the Super Bowl stat line to downgrade Wilson didn't sway anyone to think Cam is better than Wilson.

LikeABoss5820
10-19-2014, 10:47 AM
Wonder if people are aware <s>@</s>DangeRussWilson (https://twitter.com/DangeRussWilson) is last in the <s>@</s>nfl (https://twitter.com/nfl) in passing yards per game at 186. That's past people. <s>#</s>overrated (https://twitter.com/hashtag/overrated?src=hash)

TheReverend
10-19-2014, 11:39 AM
I think Russell executes THEIR offense unbelievably well.

LikeABoss5820
10-19-2014, 11:47 AM
Down 14-3, better than Luck/Cam, surely this is nothing, right?

Action
10-19-2014, 11:49 AM
lulz. You want to talk logic after ignoring that Wilson is better in just about every way you can measure a QBs performance in favor of what you claim to see and silly hypothetical scenarios that have no bearing on reality. What you choose to see is the very definition of opinion.

What I see is one QB who makes the plays his team needs him to in order to give them the best chance to win, and is an involved leader. Then I see one QB who has all the talent in the world and wants everyone to know it isn't his fault if he fails, pouts when the going gets tough, and would rather be considered Superman than humble himself for the betterment of his team.

I have not ignored that Wilson has better stats. Matter of fact - I have addressed that multiple times. Are you retarded? Is your memory short?

Only morons - like yourself - ignore the other variables when taking into account the production of ANY player - talent around them and coaching.

It's not even like Cam and Wilson are close in these areas - Wilson's situation is better than Cam's by a WIDE margin.

The offense Wilson is in is also friendlier.

You have not acknowledged any of these details - yet all you can do is tout stats that any one can find and see which number is bigger. If you truly believe that marks the better player - why are you even having a discussion?

Why are you even trying to convince anyone as if people can't see what number is bigger?

Your stupidity is obvious. Your lack of understanding is laughable. You knowledge of football (and sports) is elementary. The level of your logic and thought process regarding this topic is the same as mine when I was in kindergarten.

1 QB has more wins and more passing TDs and bigger stats - he is OBVIOUSLY better!!!

Lets be honest here - you must be a real idiot in person LOL

Action
10-19-2014, 11:50 AM
Wonder if people are aware <s>@</s>DangeRussWilson (https://twitter.com/DangeRussWilson) is last in the <s>@</s>nfl (https://twitter.com/nfl) in passing yards per game at 186. That's past people. <s>#</s>overrated (https://twitter.com/hashtag/overrated?src=hash)

Let's not forget the other detail that - Seattle spent this off season trying to change the identity of the team to put the ball in Wilson's hands more and building it around him.

:spit:

TheReverend
10-19-2014, 11:56 AM
Down 14-3, better than Luck/Cam, surely this is nothing, right?

I certainly don't think he's better than Luck.

LikeABoss5820
10-19-2014, 11:59 AM
Make it 21-3, once they pay Russ, they'll have more games like this.

Action
10-19-2014, 12:00 PM
I certainly don't think he's better than Luck.

Which is why the stat comparison thing is elementary.

You take Luck's name out and just compare purely stats - and Luck is an average QB.

Tombstone RJ
10-19-2014, 12:04 PM
Let's not forget the other detail that - Seattle spent this off season trying to change the identity of the team to put the ball in Wilson's hands more and building it around him.

:spit:

You act like Seattle wins in spite of Wilson when posters here are simply pointing out that Wilson executes Seattle's offense extremely well. Seattle has been assembling their team for about 5 years but what got them over the top is Wilson.

BroncosfanGuy
10-19-2014, 12:04 PM
Which is why the stat comparison thing is elementary.

You take Luck's name out and just compare purely stats - and Luck is an average QB.

you can compare it any way, Wilson is a better pro QB than Cam right now. I used the stats as a tangible exhibit. You can point to intangible such as he's a better leader, he's more poised late in games, he's a more accurate passer. His teams have had more success under him.

Using stats to reenforce an argument, in every debate, is much more convincing than using nothing more than moticons and family smack. Please, post why, any reason really that Newton is a better pro QB to this point. I have watched both. And, stats or otherwise, I think that Wilson is a better pro QB than Newton thus far.

broncocalijohn
10-19-2014, 12:05 PM
Which is why the stat comparison thing is elementary.

You take Luck's name out and just compare purely stats - and Luck is an average QB.

If you take Elway's stats from his first 5 years and just show stats with no name attached, would he be just average?

stats are important but damn they bring out the nerds to tell everyone who is actually good and who is average based on being a pencil pusher.

Luck is a good QB and will be for years to come...just like Elway. I am surprised a few here think he won't amount to anything more than average and "out in 3 seasons."

LikeABoss5820
10-19-2014, 12:07 PM
You act like Seattle wins in spite of Wilson when posters here are simply pointing out that Wilson executes Seattle's offense extremely well. Seattle has been assembling their team for about 5 years but what got them over the top is Wilson.

Seattle's defense got them over the hump.

TheReverend
10-19-2014, 12:08 PM
Cam Newton is black Jay Cutler

BroncosfanGuy
10-19-2014, 12:10 PM
Cam Newton is black Jay Cutler

from a talent standpoint, I totally agree. they are 2 of the most physically talented QBs in the league.

CEH
10-19-2014, 12:10 PM
Let's rag the performance of Wilson today and fail to acknowledge the exact same performance from Cam today.

Who's with me.

BroncosfanGuy
10-19-2014, 12:11 PM
Make it 21-3, once they pay Russ, they'll have more games like this.

this is a myopic argument, but I will play along.


How many points does Cam have? And against a much lesser defence?

TheReverend
10-19-2014, 12:11 PM
from a talent standpoint, I totally agree. they are 2 of the most physically talented QBs in the league.

With polarizing fan opinion and mixed bags of on-field success

Tombstone RJ
10-19-2014, 12:15 PM
Seattle's defense got them over the hump.

Tell that to Matt Flynn and his fat contract that Seattle paid him.

Action
10-19-2014, 12:18 PM
you can compare it any way, Wilson is a better pro QB than Cam right now. I used the stats as a tangible exhibit. You can point to intangible such as he's a better leader, he's more poised late in games, he's a more accurate passer. His teams have had more success under him.

Using stats to reenforce an argument, in every debate, is much more convincing than using nothing more than moticons and family smack. Please, post why, any reason really that Newton is a better pro QB to this point. I have watched both. And am completely convinced, stats or otherwise, that Wilson is a better pro QB than Newton thus far.

You have not watched both play.

You're also full of ****...you posted..

higher completion %
higher Y/A
higher AY/A
more TD passes per game played
higher TD %
lower INT %
a rating 13 points higher than Newton's
higher career QBR
more 4th Qaurter comebacks
more GW drives
better W/L record

Wilson and Newton have the same exact amount of 4th quarter comebacks at 8.

He's more poised late in games? I can tell you that both Newton and Wilson are extremely poised late in games - to say either one is more poised than the other is just making up bull****.

I can also tell you - that Wilson was shook last week with the game on the line in his own house.

Oh - and that's another aspect I forgot... Seattle has the BEST home field advantage in the NFL as they have the loudest stadium in the NFL.

But you know - let's avoid all those variables when taking into account who the better player is.

All you do is look at stats - and I know you haven't watched Newton play because Panthers are rarely on primetime.

But I'm sure you saw his comeback against the Patriots last year and his 2 comebacks this year right?

LikeABoss5820
10-19-2014, 12:18 PM
Tell that to Matt Flynn and his fat contract that Seattle paid him.

They won a playoff game with Wilson going 9/18 for 103 yards, but hes why they won.

CEH
10-19-2014, 12:19 PM
Tell that to Matt Flynn and his fat contract that Seattle paid him.

Didn't see that coming.!Booya!

LikeABoss5820
10-19-2014, 12:19 PM
this is a myopic argument, but I will play along.


How many points does Cam have? And against a much lesser defence?

Not the point.

Cam has the worst OL in football and minus Benjamin, his weapons suck.

Terrible argument frodo.

BroncosfanGuy
10-19-2014, 12:22 PM
Not the point.

of course it isn't ;)

Action
10-19-2014, 12:22 PM
If you take Elway's stats from his first 5 years and just show stats with no name attached, would he be just average?

stats are important but damn they bring out the nerds to tell everyone who is actually good and who is average based on being a pencil pusher.

Luck is a good QB and will be for years to come...just like Elway. I am surprised a few here think he won't amount to anything more than average and "out in 3 seasons."

Exactly.

Dedhed
10-19-2014, 12:24 PM
I have not ignored that Wilson has better stats. Matter of fact - I have addressed that multiple times. Are you retarded? Is your memory short?

Only morons - like yourself - ignore the other variables when taking into account the production of ANY player - talent around them and coaching.

It's not even like Cam and Wilson are close in these areas - Wilson's situation is better than Cam's by a WIDE margin.

The offense Wilson is in is also friendlier.

You have not acknowledged any of these details - yet all you can do is tout stats that any one can find and see which number is bigger. If you truly believe that marks the better player - why are you even having a discussion?

Why are you even trying to convince anyone as if people can't see what number is bigger?

Your stupidity is obvious. Your lack of understanding is laughable. You knowledge of football (and sports) is elementary. The level of your logic and thought process regarding this topic is the same as mine when I was in kindergarten.

1 QB has more wins and more passing TDs and bigger stats - he is OBVIOUSLY better!!!

Lets be honest here - you must be a real idiot in person LOL
Your insults show how incredibly intelligent you must be; because, let's be honest here, if there is one trait that marks a genius, its the inability to engage in a debate without resorting to insults.

What you fail to comprehend is that your stance is purely subjective, and simply opinion.

PS-I'm watching Newton play right now; it's pure QB prowess on display.

Action
10-19-2014, 12:25 PM
You act like Seattle wins in spite of Wilson when posters here are simply pointing out that Wilson executes Seattle's offense extremely well. Seattle has been assembling their team for about 5 years but what got them over the top is Wilson.

I am not saying that at all - as Wilson has performed very well.

To the casual watcher and geek armchair stat analyzer - yeah I can very well see why they would think that that Wilson is a better QB.

But if you actually know what you're watching - you'd see how much he benefits from his situation and how much better Cam is when you both watch them work.

BroncosfanGuy
10-19-2014, 12:26 PM
You have not watched both play.


of course I have, buddy.

Action
10-19-2014, 12:28 PM
this is a myopic argument, but I will play along.


How many points does Cam have? And against a much lesser defence?

Against a much lesser defense? So you're just going to keep making up bull**** like you did with the 4th quarter comebacks?

Rams and Packers are ranked 18/19 this year in defensive yardage - however

Rams give up 30 ppg and Packers give up 21.7.

But yeah - "much" lesser defense Cam is facing.

****ing moron :spit:

All these armchair stat nerds do the same thing - which is just make up bull****.

Dedhed
10-19-2014, 12:28 PM
Right now Cam is yelling at his teammates for a delay of game penalty. #best QB ever.

BroncosfanGuy
10-19-2014, 12:29 PM
Against a much lesser defense?

yes, against a much lesser defence. nice use of stats in this post, though. we are getting somewhere.

Action
10-19-2014, 12:31 PM
of course I have, buddy.

Another lie - obviously.

BroncosfanGuy
10-19-2014, 12:32 PM
So you're just going to keep making up bull**** like you did with the 4th quarter comebacks?


Wilson has 8 (#Clutch) and Newton has 7. Despite Newton playing an entire season more

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NewtCa00.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm

Action
10-19-2014, 12:34 PM
Right now Cam is yelling at his teammates for a delay of game penalty. #best QB ever.

Yeah because when Manning does it - it's ok.

Because you know - QBs never get mad at their players.

****ing idiot - I swear you fools throw everything out the window when trying to prove a point.

Goes back to my post earlier in this thread - which is most people just aren't very smart and can't handle multiple variables going on at once.

In this case - Dedhed is so tuned in and wants to see Cam in a negative way for his argument -- that every negative thing that happens will be blown up in his brain without being able to keep a mental baseline to be objective.

Such as this moronic post of "OMG HE'S A BAD QB HE YELLED AT HIS TEAMMATE!"

Most likely some fat **** or nerd that's never played sports.

Action
10-19-2014, 12:35 PM
Wilson has 8 (#Clutch) and Newton has 7. Despite Newton playing an entire season more

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NewtCa00.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm

Nope - try again

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=NewtCa00

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=WilsRu00

8 fourth quarter comebacks, 7 game-winning drives
8 fourth quarter comebacks, 11 game-winning drives

kepe lying though.

BroncosfanGuy
10-19-2014, 12:39 PM
Nope - try again

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=NewtCa00

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=WilsRu00

8 fourth quarter comebacks, 7 game-winning drives
8 fourth quarter comebacks, 11 game-winning drives

kepe lying though.

ah, it appears the PFR main player page has 7 for Newton. Okay, so Wilson has as many 4th Q Comebacks in fewer games as Newton (so more comeback drives per games played--impressive) and Wilson still has 4 more GW drives than Newton despite playing a full season less.

#Clutch

Action
10-19-2014, 12:39 PM
yes, against a much lesser defence. nice use of stats in this post, though. we are getting somewhere.

Again a "much" lesser defense - yet Packers defense has performed better this year.

You ****ing dumb ass Ha!

OABB
10-19-2014, 12:42 PM
More like "Can Notwin" amirite?

Action
10-19-2014, 12:44 PM
ah, it appears the PFR main player page has 7 for Newton. Okay, so Wilson has as many 4th Q Comebacks in fewer games as Newton (so more comeback drives per games played--impressive) and Wilson still has 4 more GW drives than Newton despite playing a full season less.

#Clutch

Ah - yes you are a dumbass.

"Despite playing a full season less" is an extremely stupid addition to your argument in reference to the 4th quarter comeback stat - considering there are so many variables that play into that.

Such as - opportunity with point differential stats along with it.

Detailed understanding of things like - and your lack of it - proves your armchair status.

BroncosfanGuy
10-19-2014, 12:46 PM
Again a "much" lesser defense - yet Packers defense has performed better this year.


GB has been better vs the run this year, correct. not even close vs the pass--which is what we are discussing, but sure. Don't expect much from J Stew. Passing lanes should be open though.

Dedhed
10-19-2014, 12:47 PM
Yeah because when Manning does it - it's ok.

Because you know - QBs never get mad at their players.

****ing idiot - I swear you fools throw everything out the window when trying to prove a point.

Goes back to my post earlier in this thread - which is most people just aren't very smart and can't handle multiple variables going on at once.

In this case - Dedhed is so tuned in and wants to see Cam in a negative way for his argument -- that every negative thing that happens will be blown up in his brain without being able to keep a mental baseline to be objective.

Such as this moronic post of "OMG HE'S A BAD QB HE YELLED AT HIS TEAMMATE!"

Most likely some fat **** or nerd that's never played sports.
I doubt Manning yealls at his teammates for things that are his responsibility; like, oh, managing the play clock.

How many times were you a High School All-American?
How many state records do you hold?
Did you play DI in college?
Have you played professionally?

But this shows your amazing intellect; operating under laughable ASSumptions and positing circle arguments.

BroncosfanGuy
10-19-2014, 12:48 PM
Such as - opportunity with point differential stats along with it.


considering the W/L of each QB and a full season more of play, Cam has had more than ample opps for GW drives or comebacks. Just hasn't happened.

Action
10-19-2014, 12:48 PM
Is it really ****ing surprising that a player that plays on a better team has more 4th quarter comebacks?

Especially on a team like seattle that runs the ball and plays a defensive game?

I bet you Big Ben has ****load of 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives too.

Lol @ #clutch - yeah Romo is 17th all time in 4th quarter comebacks - and we all know he's the most clutch QB ever.

Action
10-19-2014, 12:50 PM
I doubt Manning yealls at his teammates for things that are his responsibility; like, oh, managing the play clock.

How many times were you a High School All-American?
How many state records do you hold?
Did you play DI in college?
Have you played professionally?

But this shows your amazing intellect; operating under laughable ASSumptions and positing circle arguments.

Oh because the QB is the only one that plays a factor in a possible delay of game.

Because Manning - has never called a time out because a certain player was at fault for lining up in the wrong position or not knowing what to do.

Are you trying to claim you accomplished all those things or something? :spit:

Dedhed
10-19-2014, 12:50 PM
Is it really ****ing surprising that a player that plays on a better team has more 4th quarter comebacks?


You cannot be serious with this.

BroncosfanGuy
10-19-2014, 12:51 PM
action, are you really getting angry over this?

Action
10-19-2014, 12:51 PM
You cannot be serious with this.

You cannot be serious that you don't understand that.

Action
10-19-2014, 12:53 PM
GB has been better vs the run this year, correct. not even close vs the pass--which is what we are discussing, but sure. Don't expect much from J Stew. Passing lanes should be open though.

Wait what?

Green Bay is the worst team against the run this year and 5th against the pass.

:spit: What a ****ing moron :spit:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/sort/netPassingYardsPerGame/position/defense

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/sort/rushingYardsPerGame/position/defense

Action
10-19-2014, 12:55 PM
So my ASSumption that you guys are morons are correct - as 1 armchair stat nerd in here has shown he doesn't watch any football and just looks at stats - and he can't even do that simple task correctly.

While the other one uses a delay of game penalty - 1 play - and a QB yelling at their player to exemplify a bad QB. ****ing idiot HA!

I'm sure you 2 are geniuses in person LOL

Action
10-19-2014, 12:58 PM
BroncosfanGuy - what a ****ing liar..."Much lesser defence" ... "not even close against the pass" "passing lanes should be open"... then claims he watches football.

No you don't watch anything - and the only reason you though Rams had a better defense thus far is because you don't know anything.

Dedhed
10-19-2014, 01:01 PM
You cannot be serious that you don't understand that.

I see you've ignored the rest; very convenient.

The fact that you can't comprehend how the QB on the better team would have fewer chances to come from behind, you know because the better team is likely ahead in the fourth qtr, pretty much sums up this thread for you.

errand
10-19-2014, 01:01 PM
Looks like John Elway's game stats from 1984. You know the year Denver went 13-3 and Elway's' 2nd year in the league. Look it up.

My original point still stands. using the Super Bowl stat line to downgrade Wilson didn't sway anyone to think Cam is better than Wilson.

Rules that favor the passing game now, weren't in place in '84....

Let's put it like this, if you took Cam Newton and put him on the Seahawks and Put Wilson on the Panthers, would the results be the same?

Dedhed
10-19-2014, 01:02 PM
Rules the favor the passing game now, weren't in place in '84....

Let's put it like this, if you took Cam Newton and put him on the Seahawks and Put Wilson on the Panthers, would the results be the same?

I hate questions like this. You have no idea, and neither does anyone else. My guess is that both teams would be worse.

BroncosfanGuy
10-19-2014, 01:02 PM
Let's put it like this, if you took Cam Newton and put him on the Seahawks and Put Wilson on the Panthers, would the results be the same?

Steve Smiff might have a ring by now

LikeABoss5820
10-19-2014, 01:04 PM
Steve Smiff might have a ring by now

Because Seattle is a better team than Carolina.

Nothing to do with QB play.

Action
10-19-2014, 01:05 PM
Rules that favor the passing game now, weren't in place in '84....

Let's put it like this, if you took Cam Newton and put him on the Seahawks and Put Wilson on the Panthers, would the results be the same?

It's always tough to say would result be the "same" but everyone and their mom knows Seattle would be just as good if they had Cam... (winning a super bowl though? maybe, maybe not)

But what would Wilson look like on the Panthers with no Lynch, elite running game, elite coaching staff... drop in offensive talent... and a non historical defense.

I remember someone in this thread claiming that Seattle and Panthers defense were similar in how good they were (1 of the 2 idiots above probably)... yet Seattle has Earl Thomas - Chancellor - Irvin - Smith - Sherman - Mebane - Bennet - Avril...etc

Bet no one can name that many players on the whole Panthers team let alone defense.

Dedhed
10-19-2014, 01:06 PM
So my ASSumption that you guys are morons are correct -

The correct way to phrase that would be:

"my ASSupmtion that you guys are morons is correct". Your usage is as incorrect as your take, but I'm sure you knew that because you've told us how smart you are.

Action
10-19-2014, 01:08 PM
Steve Smiff might have a ring by now

Going to just ignore the fact that you told a blatant lie about the Packers defense :spit:

I think what happened is - because you just look at stats - you tried to go some stat website to look up team defense statistics and you were just too ****ing stupid to interpret those stats/rankings.

Either way - you're a ****ing idiot Ha!

Action
10-19-2014, 01:09 PM
The correct way to phrase that would be:

"my ASSupmtion that you guys are morons is correct". Your usage is as incorrect as your take, but I'm sure you knew that because you've told us how smart you are.

You are right. My grammar was incorrect. It should have been "is."

broncocalijohn
10-19-2014, 01:09 PM
They won a playoff game with Wilson going 9/18 for 103 yards, but hes why they won.

Did they only play one playoff game and he sucked in it? Tell me more about Wilson's other playoff games if they did actually have more than one playoff game (is Seattle like the Chiefs?) . How about that QB we had named Elway. Boy, I see his stats from the GB SB game and say out loud, "Boy, he sucked that game! I bet there is nothing memorable about anything he did. It was all Davis!"

You remind me of Mile High Mojoe with Luck opinion.

DENVERDUI55
10-19-2014, 01:10 PM
Let's cut to the chase. Tebow> Newton

Action
10-19-2014, 01:13 PM
Did they only play one playoff game and he sucked in it? Tell me more about Wilson's other playoff games if they did actually have more than one playoff game (is Seattle like the Chiefs?) . How about that QB we had named Elway. Boy, I see his stats from the GB SB game and say out loud, "Boy, he sucked that game! I bet there is nothing memorable about anything he did. It was all Davis!"

You remind me of Mile High Mojoe with Luck opinion.

But Wilson truly sucked that game.

Came into the 4th with a 16-0 lead while playing like ass when Lynch was carrying that team.

errand
10-19-2014, 01:15 PM
I hate questions like this. You have no idea, and neither does anyone else. My guess is that both teams would be worse.

Amazing, because damn near every Broncos fan used it everytime someone claimed Joe Montana was a better QB than John Elway.

errand
10-19-2014, 01:18 PM
Let's cut to the chase. Tebow> Newton

Wasn't that the original premise of this thread?

LikeABoss5820
10-19-2014, 01:18 PM
Amazing, because damn near every Broncos fan used it everytime someone claimed Joe Montana was a better QB than John Elway.

He was

Dr. Broncenstein
10-19-2014, 01:19 PM
Cam sucks.

BroncosfanGuy
10-19-2014, 01:23 PM
well action, you took offence to per-game stats before so I posted the total. If we go per game, the GB d has been better. Just as if we go per-game Russell Wilson has been much better. Mea culpa on using total yards.

fwiw, Wilson handled the same GB d pretty well earlier in the year.

oubronco
10-19-2014, 01:23 PM
Agreed Cam Sucks

errand
10-19-2014, 01:24 PM
He was

So your opinion is that Montana was better than Elway....

Ok make your case....keep in mind, you've already stated that the team and coaching have a huge impact on the success of the player.

GreatBronco16
10-19-2014, 01:25 PM
Cam is in 'don't care' mode. This is who he is, when everything doesn't go his way.

LikeABoss5820
10-19-2014, 01:27 PM
well action, you took offence to per-game stats before so I posted the total. If we go per game, the GB d has been better. Just as if we go per-game Russell Wilson has been much better. Mea culpa on using total yards.

fwiw, Wilson handled the same GB d pretty well earlier in the year.

Wilson threw for 170 yards vs GB.

Lynch and the Hawks D won them the game.

Anymore stupid things you wanna say frodo?

LikeABoss5820
10-19-2014, 01:28 PM
So your opinion is that Montana was better than Elway....

Ok make your case....keep in mind, you've already stated that the team and coaching have a huge impact on the success of the player.

Most people have Montana over Elway, its not a crazy statement.

BroncosfanGuy
10-19-2014, 01:28 PM
Wilson threw for 170 yards vs GB.


and how many TD passes? how many INT?
how many points did Wilson score?

LikeABoss5820
10-19-2014, 01:30 PM
and how many TD passes? how many INT?
how many points did Wilson score?

LOL clearly dont get it.

Dedhed
10-19-2014, 01:30 PM
Cam is in 'don't care' mode. This is who he is, when everything doesn't go his way.

So is frown cannon down in miami.

BroncosfanGuy
10-19-2014, 01:31 PM
LOL clearly dont get it.

well, please do explain.

GreatBronco16
10-19-2014, 01:32 PM
So is frown cannon down in miami.

No, he's in Chicago doing this.

Action
10-19-2014, 01:32 PM
well action, you took offence to per-game stats before so I posted the total. If we go per game, the GB d has been better. Just as if we go per-game Russell Wilson has been much better. Mea culpa on using total yards.

fwiw, Wilson handled the same GB d pretty well earlier in the year.

Are you going to continuously make up excuses for you dumb ****ery?

Why the **** would you use TOTAL stats to compare 2 teams when the amount of games they've played is different?

What the **** kind of stupid logic is this? Are you really trying to defend your idiotic nature?

You really are stupid as I've been claiming throughout this thread http://i.imgur.com/v2xoMbY.png

Dedhed
10-19-2014, 01:36 PM
No, he's in Chicago doing this.

Wow.

BroncosfanGuy
10-19-2014, 01:38 PM
Why the **** would you use TOTAL stats to compare 2 teams when the amount of games they've played is different?


hey, I agree. Like I said I had been doing the same thing for the players in question for the same reason the past few pages of the thread but you did not like that.

Wilson carved up this same D that has completely shut Cam down. We can at least agree to that, yeah?

Action
10-19-2014, 01:38 PM
This idiot in here tried to use total game stats to analyze a game when the teams have played different amounts of games.

Tried to blame it on me - yet he came to his own conclusion of

"GB has been better vs the run this year" - GB = worst rushing defense in the league this year

"not even close vs the pass" "Passing lanes should be open though."- GB 4 or 5th best in the league in pass defense this year

http://i.imgur.com/jWvLbim.png Too ****ing stupid

Dedhed
10-19-2014, 01:39 PM
Newton is a less talented Mike vick. Wilson is a less talented trent dilfer.

Action
10-19-2014, 01:40 PM
hey, I agree. Like I said I had been doing the same thing for the players in question for the same reason the past few pages of the thread but you did not like that.

Wilson carved up this same D that has completely shut Cam down. We can at least agree to that, yeah?

Lynch and Harvin combined for 151 yards on 24 carries (6.3 YPC)

Did you see the Panthers running game today??? Especially to start the game.

Yes Wilson performed better - but as I said - there are so many variables involved.

Not to mention Packers offense was complete ass that game (or Seattle defense was that great).

Combine that with the 1st game of the season - it's a wash to try and compare.

And to be honest - I hate using the 1st game (or even 2nd) of the season to make any sort of comparison.

Comparing games in the 1st half of the season to 2nd half isn't smart either as teams are completely different.

errand
10-19-2014, 01:43 PM
Most people have Montana over Elway, its not a crazy statement.

I agree that there are some who think that.....I'm just curious what your argument is in defense of Montana>Elway.

What criteria are you using?

BroncosfanGuy
10-19-2014, 01:44 PM
Yes Wilson performed better

^5

pretty much a microcosm of their respective careers, yeah?

Dedhed
10-19-2014, 01:46 PM
it's a wash to try and compare.

as teams are completely different.

This is the first intelligent thing you've said in this thread, and you didn't even mean to.

Action
10-19-2014, 01:50 PM
very nice drive by Wilson.

Gregg Willimas is a ****ing idiot though. That over aggressive blitzing is retarded.

DENVERDUI55
10-19-2014, 02:11 PM
Wasn't that the original premise of this thread?

Yes Tim would revolutionize the game.

Dedhed
10-19-2014, 02:15 PM
Wilson with over 400 yds of offense today.

Action
10-19-2014, 02:19 PM
Wilson with over 400 yds of offense today.

Wilson played a great game. Unfortunately, as Chip Kelly says, ST is the most important part of football.

Dedhed
10-19-2014, 02:21 PM
Wilson played a great game. Unfortunately, as Chip Kelly says, ST is the most important part of football.

I could watch Pete Carroll eat a sh*t sandwich all day.

Action
10-19-2014, 02:22 PM
I could watch Pete Carroll eat a sh*t sandwich all day.

Wished they would have panned to Richard Sherman. Wack how they only showed his face when he defended that 3rd down pass.

Action
10-19-2014, 02:37 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Russell Wilson: 1st player in NFL history with 300 passing yards and 100 rushing yards in a game (via <a href="https://twitter.com/EliasSports">@eliassports</a>)</p>&mdash; ESPN Stats &amp; Info (@ESPNStatsInfo) <a href="https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/523928600194842626">October 19, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

not too shabby

too bad it resulted in an L.

TonyR
10-19-2014, 03:06 PM
Yes Tim would revolutionize the game.

lol, yes, and don't forget that most (if not all!) NFL FO's would take Tebow over Newton!

Dedhed
10-19-2014, 03:14 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Russell Wilson: 1st player in NFL history with 300 passing yards and 100 rushing yards in a game (via <a href="https://twitter.com/EliasSports">@eliassports</a>)</p>&mdash; ESPN Stats &amp; Info (@ESPNStatsInfo) <a href="https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/523928600194842626">October 19, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

not too shabby

too bad it resulted in an L.

It was a Newtonian performance.

BroncosfanGuy
10-19-2014, 03:18 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Russell Wilson: 1st player in NFL history with 300 passing yards and 100 rushing yards in a game (via <a href="https://twitter.com/EliasSports">@eliassports</a>)</p>&mdash; ESPN Stats &amp; Info (@ESPNStatsInfo) <a href="https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/523928600194842626">October 19, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

.

Wilson is a game manager

Shananahan
10-19-2014, 03:47 PM
Haha.

Action
10-19-2014, 03:54 PM
.

Even Tim Tebow hasn thrown for 300 yards.

And Trent Dilfer.

And Shaun Hill.

And Kyle Orton.

And Alex Smith

Using 1 game to try and dispute a statement that covers an entire career is ****ing stupid.

But hey, I guess that's all you know how to do.

BroncosfanGuy
10-19-2014, 04:02 PM
Even Tim Tebow hasn thrown for 300 yards.


.
I've spent time trying to teach my nephews different concepts of math

Action
10-19-2014, 04:14 PM
.

You're really taking that grammar police route to mask your dumbassness?

BroncosfanGuy
10-19-2014, 04:20 PM
You're really taking that grammar police route?

.
You are right. My grammar was incorrect.

BroncofanDK
10-19-2014, 04:42 PM
lol, yes, and don't forget that most (if not all!) NFL FO's would take Tebow over Newton!

Well, it is kind of strange that FO's are so infatuated with the Cam Newton's, the Jay Cutler's and the Jeff George's of this world.

Cam is as bad of a leader on the field as Cutler, and recent events from the Gator players Tebow played with might indicate that he had a very positive effect on the Riley Cooper, The Pouncy'es, Aaron Hernandez, Percy Harwin....

While Tebow had a lot to learn - he was never in the smug - I don't care mode, and it is still only Russell Wilson of QB's from the last four drafts that have taken a team further.

BroncosfanGuy
10-26-2014, 03:49 PM
Wilson Tebowesque on a GW TD drive after Cam led his team to a FG. #Clutch

Action
10-26-2014, 06:38 PM
Wilson Tebowesque on a GW TD drive after Cam led his team to a FG. #Clutch

Both QBs were garbage today.

But the QB with a better offensive supporting cast, a better defense and better coaching won.

Cam was running around all day.

broncosteven
10-26-2014, 06:43 PM
It was a Newtonian performance.

I thought it was Cutleresque especially at the end of the game when he took the 3 sacks then could not connect on a poorly called screen pass to end the game then moped off the field. Cam had a lot of under thrown balls or ball behind guys.

I will say his RT was owned most of the 4th quarter.

BroncosfanGuy
10-26-2014, 06:45 PM
Both QBs were garbage today.

But the QB with a better offensive supporting castcoaching won.


Just imagine what's going to happen to Wilson once today's starting WRs and TE Doug Baldwin, Kris Willson, and Jermaine Kearse leave via FA.

CEH
10-26-2014, 06:51 PM
Just imagine what's going to happen to Wilson once today's starting WRs and TE Doug Baldwin, Kris Willson, and Jermaine Kearse leave via FA.

Kris Wilson still plays pro football
Seattle is doomed

BroncofanDK
10-27-2014, 03:18 AM
I thought it was Cutleresque especially at the end of the game when he took the 3 sacks then could not connect on a poorly called screen pass to end the game then moped off the field. Cam had a lot of under thrown balls or ball behind guys.

I will say his RT was owned most of the 4th quarter.

Spot on - but then Newton reminds me so much of Cutler. All the talent in the world, and a self centered git that lacks the humility, drive and heart to lift his team.

It is fascinating to see players like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, who are so inferior in physical talent just using every bad break, every obstacle to improve their game and the game of their teammates. It is fascinating that a player with as many faults as Tebow could drive a team to succeed when insanely talented players like Cutler and Newton cannot.

Broncomutt
10-27-2014, 07:23 AM
.

TheReverend
10-27-2014, 07:28 AM
.

Von took a nice S on his chest a couple years ago Ha!

driver
10-27-2014, 10:02 AM
If Carolina had a QB instead of a Wannabee comic book Hero, they'd be pretty good team!

Action
10-27-2014, 11:00 AM
If Carolina had a QB instead of a Wannabee comic book Hero, they'd be pretty good team!

No they wouldn't - their WR's are ass along with their OC.

Their WR corps might be the worst in the NFL.