Keystone, or Keystone cops?

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

http://news.yahoo.com/keystone-linked-u-highway-bill-boehner-174244726.html

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Republican lawmakers will try to force the Obama administration to approve the Canada-to-Texas Keystone XL pipeline by attaching it to a highway bill that Congress will consider next month, House of Representatives Speaker John Boehner said on Sunday.

President Barack Obama earlier this month denied TransCanada's application for the oil sands pipeline, citing lack of time to review an alternative route within a 60-day window for action set by Congress.

Republicans have since been looking for a vehicle to resurrect the $7 billion project, and Boehner said that would be a House Republican energy and highway bill.

"If (Keystone) is not enacted before we take up the American Energy and Infrastructure Jobs Act, it will be part of it," Boehner said on ABC's "This Week" news program.

Environmentalists and some Democrats oppose Keystone, citing higher greenhouse gas emissions, while most Republicans say it would create needed jobs.

Republicans in the Senate also plan to introduce a Keystone bill. Some Senate Democrats back the pipeline, but its passage is not guaranteed in the body.

Parts of the House Republican plan, such as opening up the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge to oil exploration, stand little chance of passing the Democratic-controlled U.S. Senate.

Attaching Keystone to a pending deal to extend payroll tax cuts for workers, which has greater bipartisan backing than the highway bills, is another vehicle Republicans are considering.

[peacepipe]

veto

[Bronx33]

veto


Just might be his waterloo.

[ghwk]

Just might be his waterloo.

Not even close.

[cutthemdown]

Good plan. Attach it to something Obama really needs and wants. I hate how this is how we do things but both sides play the same game under the same supposed rules. They break them whenever they want it seems.

Forces the issue to stay in the news all the way until the election.

[Paladin]

Did you know the Koch Brothers have a heavy interest in this? They also own many Repugnicans. The oil would pass through the US and be loaded TAX FREE on tanker ships bound for China and else where. Hummm, that sounds llike a good deal for America. NOT. Canada can sully it's own environment.

Besides, this country is making good headway in using alternative energy. And it is continuing to get better. Electric Batteries for cars are getting better. Natural Gas is easy for the US to get, and it is cleaner, and the US has enough to last 100 years. Electric caars with Natural gass backup would be neat to look into. C'mon engineers, get it done.....

Obama should veto any effort to screw the American people or threaten the Aquifier and the Environment. Let the Koch Brothers use it on their wheaties.......

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The oil would pass through the US and be loaded TAX FREE on tanker ships bound for China and else where.

That's the reality these right-wing idiots don't want to face.

It would take the air out of their political football.

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

Koch! Koch? (Koch). Boogyman anybody.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Koch! Koch? (Koch). Boogyman anybody.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/396521_371644852861032_108038612554992_1461786_144 7522209_n.jpg

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/396521_371644852861032_108038612554992_1461786_144 7522209_n.jpg

Oh, Here comes the Boogywoman.

[alkemical]

Koch! Koch? (Koch). Boogyman anybody.

What's your take on astroturfing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing)?

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

What's your take on astroturfing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing)?

Astroturfing? Yeah considering all the OWS rallies are funded by Soros, but Tea Party rallies are not funded by Koch. Keep trying.

[Spider]

Good plan. Attach it to something Obama really needs and wants. I hate how this is how we do things but both sides play the same game under the same supposed rules. They break them whenever they want it seems.

Forces the issue to stay in the news all the way until the election.

No it isnt , not even close , this thing is going to be another Rocky mountain gas line project ..... Costly , high maintenance , take to long with little Yield for us .... This thing stinks .......

[Spider]

Astroturfing? Yeah considering all the OWS rallies are funded by Soros, but Tea Party rallies are not funded by Koch. Keep trying.

Been awhile since I been down here , good to see you are still a ****ing Idiot

[Spider]

Good plan

Curious , what makes this pipeline a good plan to you ?

[Rigs11]

The right are all up in arms over this. First it was that it would create 10,000 jobs, then it was 20,000, then 100,000.Shovel ready jobs as they like to say.

[alkemical]

Astroturfing? Yeah considering all the OWS rallies are funded by Soros, but Tea Party rallies are not funded by Koch. Keep trying.

That's a false statement, and doesn't answer the question. I expect no less from agenda driven sheeple.

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/407949_3249284993690_1313926283_3418112_2047978304 _n.jpg

[alkemical]

http://colorlines.com/assets_c/2010/10/alternet_teapartyinc_102510-thumb-640xauto-1396.jpg

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

http://colorlines.com/assets_c/2010/10/alternet_teapartyinc_102510-thumb-640xauto-1396.jpg

http://www.deviantart.com/download/151133362/Nuclear_Facepalm_Poster_by_Nianden.jpg

[alkemical]

If it weren’t for MSNBC we wouldn’t have any liberal sound bites. I’ve told Cookie I’m sick of it, ban MSNBC, and we can’t, ‘cause there’s no other place to get liberal sound bites. There isn’t any other place. I mean CNN is just insane over there. They emphasize their hosts, they have guests, but just roll tape on ‘em and it’s so boring. It’s not worth putting anything from CNN on the air.

If it weren’t for MSNBC there wouldn’t be any liberal sound bites. Now, that has to mean something. That has to mean that they’re rare, that they’re not everywhere. They may be everywhere in print, but, you know, left-wingers on the radio, genuine cuckoo’s nest. You wouldn’t even want to go there. I wouldn’t play that stuff. MSNBC’s it, and it’s two shows or three shows. It’s it is morning thing with Scarborough, it’s the Larry O’Donnell show at night, and maybe occasionally something from Reverend Sharpton. (interruption) Well, yeah, sometimes Sergeant Schultz. Sergeant Schultz is out there walking amongst abandoned railroad cars looking for the future of America. I know there’s Al Gore’s channel, but that’s nothing worth highlighting. It really says something. MSNBC is the only place in the media to get these liberals.


~Rush Limbaugh

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

If it weren’t for MSNBC we wouldn’t have any liberal sound bites. I’ve told Cookie I’m sick of it, ban MSNBC, and we can’t, ‘cause there’s no other place to get liberal sound bites. There isn’t any other place. I mean CNN is just insane over there. They emphasize their hosts, they have guests, but just roll tape on ‘em and it’s so boring. It’s not worth putting anything from CNN on the air.

If it weren’t for MSNBC there wouldn’t be any liberal sound bites. Now, that has to mean something. That has to mean that they’re rare, that they’re not everywhere. They may be everywhere in print, but, you know, left-wingers on the radio, genuine cuckoo’s nest. You wouldn’t even want to go there. I wouldn’t play that stuff. MSNBC’s it, and it’s two shows or three shows. It’s it is morning thing with Scarborough, it’s the Larry O’Donnell show at night, and maybe occasionally something from Reverend Sharpton. (interruption) Well, yeah, sometimes Sergeant Schultz. Sergeant Schultz is out there walking amongst abandoned railroad cars looking for the future of America. I know there’s Al Gore’s channel, but that’s nothing worth highlighting. It really says something. MSNBC is the only place in the media to get these liberals.


~Rush Limbaugh

Annnnddddd.......

[alkemical]

There's no "liberal media conspiracy" according to Limbaugh. Only MSNBC is "liberal".

I wonder what he means.

[cutthemdown]

No it isnt , not even close , this thing is going to be another Rocky mountain gas line project ..... Costly , high maintenance , take to long with little Yield for us .... This thing stinks .......

It's a good plan whether the pipeline goes or doesn't. It's an issue the repubs feel goes in their favor as the country still feels it needs oil, and they like the idea of the jobs. It's political because we all know the pipeline wont make a difference in our day to day lives, unless it goes by your house, or you will work on it etc.

But by attaching it to this bill it makes it not go away. That way Romney can point to it when Obama brags about oil production, or jobs.

To tell you the truth I am not smart enough in oil drilling, production, or transportation to know whether or not its a good idea Spider. That is my new thing, going to try to stick to what I know, which isn't trucking or oil drilling.

I do know politics pretty well though. Repubs main goal is to keep this issue burning. I mean not like the oil would be flowing anytime soon right? They are pushing it because it's an election yr.

So for that reason, politically speaking, its a good plan. Just like Obama has a good plan. The first one was George Bush stinks, the repubs stink, elect me. This one is Bush still stinks, still cleaning his mess, but he added on Congress also to blame, its all their fault.

The more oil the better though because I would like to see it cheaper on the world markets. How we get more I will leave to the experts. But......a pipeline to American refineries seems pretty smart to me. But I digress.........

[Requiem]

Republicans don't get what they want, so they are going to try and poison pill a bill that would be passed without hesitation trying to force the Pipeline to be created.

Lol. Good luck.

[Spider]

It's a good plan whether the pipeline goes or doesn't. It's an issue the repubs feel goes in their favor as the country still feels it needs oil, and they like the idea of the jobs. It's political because we all know the pipeline wont make a difference in our day to day lives, unless it goes by your house, or you will work on it etc. Repubs also felt Bush was good for the country , we saw how that worked out

But by attaching it to this bill it makes it not go away. That way Romney can point to it when Obama brags about oil production, or jobs. LMAO jobs huh ........pick a # any # thats what the repubs have done

To tell you the truth I am not smart enough in oil drilling, production, or transportation to know whether or not its a good idea Spider. That is my new thing, going to try to stick to what I know, which isn't trucking or oil drilling. zI do know alot about it , I have worked in every phase of the patch from exploration , on to hauling crude to the refinery in Denver and Cheyenne , and this pipeline is a bad idea , not for hauling but revenue , look up the rocky mountain pipeline , natty gas people said it would be cheaper to pipe out natty gas out of the rockies then hauling it cause of weather issues etc .... turns out they was dead wrong .............

I do know politics pretty well though. Repubs main goal is to keep this issue burning. I mean not like the oil would be flowing anytime soon right? They are pushing it because it's an election yr. meanwhile we got unemployment out of control


The more oil the better though because I would like to see it cheaper on the world markets. How we get more I will leave to the experts. But......a pipeline to American refineries seems pretty smart to me. But I digress.........
this is false on all levels bro , the bakin patch alone is bigger then we know , and what we have found is more then anyone ever thought , same way with Piance Creek aka White water colorado , and the pipeline just doesnt cut it , the pipelline cant separate the water from the crude so it cant just go to the refinery , it has to be stored into tanks then separated , and Crude has a shelflife ( forget how many years it is before it goes bad) ......

[Paladin]

Also, the Niobrara formation is just now coming on line. The fields in Weld County and the area look to be fairly huge. What is funny, though is the US refining capacity is limited, and that's one other reason to not do the Keystone. None of that stuff would stay in the US, anyway. Even without future breakthrough in the Shale projects, the US refining capacity will not increase. Since a refinery is a tough Environmental sell, it makes more sense to look for Natual gas and electric generated energy for cars and trucks. I do not personally believe that long haul heavy trucks will be anything but diesal anytime soon, but if other cars and small trucks can be developed using alternative energy, that's a plus for the US.

Keystone does not help the US. It does make TransCanada and the Koch brothers (big players in TransCanada) wealthier. ConocoPhillips got out a while back (a couple maybe three years ago, I believe), and they saw the futility of this grand scheme.


I have no doubt that the Repugnicans will try to log roll this baby on to the tax relief bill. They have to count on the hope that the American people will be dumb enough to fall for the con game, and the new Republican Double Speak. (Gawd, those guys sound like they came right out ot Orwell' brain as he wrote 1984).

[cutthemdown]

The pipeline would make money and jobs that much we know. To say it wouldn't is a joke. Also to say electric cars help anything is a stretch. The elements needed for making the batteries offsets everything. We should build refineries, build tanks to separate the oil from the water, and develop every field we have.

Use it up while technology finds a better source. Really though electricity just made by burning oil, so its a reach that electric cars do anything but make cars more expensive then they should be.

[Spider]

The pipeline would make money and jobs that much we know. To say it wouldn't is a joke.
not as much as you think ......
Also to say electric cars help anything is a stretch. The elements needed for making the batteries offsets everything. We should build refineries, build tanks to separate the oil from the water, and develop every field we have. the problem isnt the supply of Crude

Use it up while technology finds a better source. Really though electricity just made by burning oil, so its a reach that electric cars do anything but make cars more expensive then they should be.

agreed but the pipeline does nothing to help this .......

[Spider]

Also, the Niobrara formation is just now coming on line. The fields in Weld County and the area look to be fairly huge. What is funny, though is the US refining capacity is limited, and that's one other reason to not do the Keystone. None of that stuff would stay in the US, anyway. Even without future breakthrough in the Shale projects, the US refining capacity will not increase. Since a refinery is a tough Environmental sell, it makes more sense to look for Natual gas and electric generated energy for cars and trucks. I do not personally believe that long haul heavy trucks will be anything but diesal anytime soon, but if other cars and small trucks can be developed using alternative energy, that's a plus for the US.

Keystone does not help the US. It does make TransCanada and the Koch brothers (big players in TransCanada) wealthier. ConocoPhillips got out a while back (a couple maybe three years ago, I believe), and they saw the futility of this grand scheme.


I have no doubt that the Repugnicans will try to log roll this baby on to the tax relief bill. They have to count on the hope that the American people will be dumb enough to fall for the con game, and the new Republican Double Speak. (Gawd, those guys sound like they came right out ot Orwell' brain as he wrote 1984).

A+

[cutthemdown]

A+

I agree with you that the pipeline won't really make a difference in the noticeable supply of oil on the market. But it does show how Obama caved to the left because he originally liked the pipeline. Also I doubt it creates the 20 thousand jobs the union claims it would, but I bet it would still create enough to do good in the area those people would get hired from.

My main thing is can the pipeline be made safe. IMO if it can be reasonable safe then there is no reason to not do it. Lets face it the oil gets drilled and fracked out of the ground either way. Canada is full go on this regardless.

Still my main argument was that it was a good political move to add this to the bill the President would like to sign. It just creates the type of issue they feel works good for them right now.

Meanwhile they are attacking Romney because of how he transported his dog, Gingrich on the all out attack. It's interesting to me to watch how the repubs in DC get along while they wait to see who wins. The fact Axelrod made a jab on twitter about the dog gate scandal shows me they think he has it locked up. Also really early for the sitting President to start a campaign like he is. All very interesting to me. Shaping up to be a bloodbath of an election.

[cutthemdown]

The fact we have limited refining ability because the environmentalist always thwart them is just more fodder. They thwart everything. We should be building them in Mexico or something, then get it down there and make them refine it. But we have Saudi Arabia to really help us on the oil supply thing.

Really oil is such a non issue its funny it being shoved at us again. The politicians love issues they can fight over easily without tackling anything that is a real problem. Sure we need all the oil we can get, and we need to protect the environment, so its really win win. Both sides sort of can make their people happy by going polar opposites.

Issues like what military bases they are going to cut are bigger business really. When you close a base you close an economy down. So those fights, when they come, will get really political. Same with the defense programs etc etc.

[Spider]

I agree with you that the pipeline won't really make a difference in the noticeable supply of oil on the market. But it does show how Obama caved to the left because he originally liked the pipeline. Also I doubt it creates the 20 thousand jobs the union claims it would, but I bet it would still create enough to do good in the area those people would get hired from.

My main thing is can the pipeline be made safe. IMO if it can be reasonable safe then there is no reason to not do it. Lets face it the oil gets drilled and fracked out of the ground either way. Canada is full go on this regardless.

Still my main argument was that it was a good political move to add this to the bill the President would like to sign. It just creates the type of issue they feel works good for them right now.

Meanwhile they are attacking Romney because of how he transported his dog, Gingrich on the all out attack. It's interesting to me to watch how the repubs in DC get along while they wait to see who wins. The fact Axelrod made a jab on twitter about the dog gate scandal shows me they think he has it locked up. Also really early for the sitting President to start a campaign like he is. All very interesting to me. Shaping up to be a bloodbath of an election.

SO you would be ok with wasting tax dollars and holding up progress to prove a point ...... Just dont know what to say about hitching your wagon to a bad plan , that really doesnt benefit anyone in the States to prove a political point ......

[Spider]

The fact we have limited refining ability because the environmentalist always thwart them is just more fodder. They thwart everything. We should be building them in Mexico or something, then get it down there and make them refine it. But we have Saudi Arabia to really help us on the oil supply thing.

Really oil is such a non issue its funny it being shoved at us again. The politicians love issues they can fight over easily without tackling anything that is a real problem. Sure we need all the oil we can get, and we need to protect the environment, so its really win win. Both sides sort of can make their people happy by going polar opposites.

Issues like what military bases they are going to cut are bigger business really. When you close a base you close an economy down. So those fights, when they come, will get really political. Same with the defense programs etc etc.

nothing says refineries cant add on , look at this , there is one in Denver ,Cheyenne , Sinclair , Casper in this area and thats just 1 example... 4 of them in a 300 mile radius of each other ...... How many do we need ?

[cutthemdown]

nothing says refineries cant add on , look at this , there is one in Denver ,Cheyenne , Sinclair , Casper in this area and thats just 1 example... 4 of them in a 300 mile radius of each other ...... How many do we need ?

If someone that mentioned we don't have the capacity anyways is right then we do. If not then we don't. I was just responding to his hypothetical. And I also don't agree the pipeline could waste money. Your analogy to an old natural gas pipeline that didn't work doesn't hold any water. I can list a ton of successful oil pipelines and that wouldn't prove my point either.

Im not hitching my wagon to anything. I am only observing politics and commenting on it. I don't get upset over it, hitch my wagon to it, live by it, or really even care that much to tell you the truth. But I do find politics interesting. Just the fight of it all.

[Spider]

If someone that mentioned we don't have the capacity anyways is right then we do. If not then we don't. I was just responding to his hypothetical. And I also don't agree the pipeline could waste money. Your analogy to an old natural gas pipeline that didn't work doesn't hold any water. I can list a ton of successful oil pipelines and that wouldn't prove my point either.

Im not hitching my wagon to anything. I am only observing politics and commenting on it. I don't get upset over it, hitch my wagon to it, live by it, or really even care that much to tell you the truth. But I do find politics interesting. Just the fight of it all.

my analogy is dead on .. specialy in this situation

[cutthemdown]

my analogy is dead on .. specialy in this situation

only in spideyland.

[Paladin]

The pipeline would make money and jobs that much we know. To say it wouldn't is a joke. Also to say electric cars help anything is a stretch. The elements needed for making the batteries offsets everything. We should build refineries, build tanks to separate the oil from the water, and develop every field we have.

Use it up while technology finds a better source. Really though electricity just made by burning oil, so its a reach that electric cars do anything but make cars more expensive then they should be.

The pipeline would create how many temporary jobs? Then, once built, how many would be permanent? The oil crude wopuld be loaded on tankers TAX FREE and sent somewhere else. How's that making money for the US? No joke.

There is not that much benefir to the US to allow this pipeline.....

[Rigs11]

The pipeline would create how many temporary jobs? Then, once built, how many would be permanent? The oil crude wopuld be loaded on tankers TAX FREE and sent somewhere else. How's that making money for the US? No joke.

There is not that much benefir to the US to allow this pipeline.....

it would create a gazilllion jobs according to faux newsHilarious!

[cutthemdown]

The pipeline would create how many temporary jobs? Then, once built, how many would be permanent? The oil crude wopuld be loaded on tankers TAX FREE and sent somewhere else. How's that making money for the US? No joke.

There is not that much benefir to the US to allow this pipeline.....

I think they report stated up to 20 thousand temp jobs, but another said more like 13 thousand. But how come you don't mind that when Obama talks infrastructure to create jobs? And this money comes a lot from non govt so we don't pay for those temp jobs like the stimulus did. Oil pipelines just another form on infrastructure.

So you like temp infrastructure jobs when govt pays for it, but not when it's a private infrastructure project? I don't get it?

[cutthemdown]

Jobs created by building things will always be temp jobs. I'm sure the pipeline needs to be monitored and maintained though with permanent jobs. Plus the unions who build it, they make money, and that carries them over to do other jobs. To poo poo the economic bennies like they are nothing is such liberal BS its not even funny. They only thing you all want to do is tax the rich at 30%, seriously that is their plan.

[ghwk]

The pipeline would make money and jobs that much we know. To say it wouldn't is a joke. Also to say electric cars help anything is a stretch. The elements needed for making the batteries offsets everything. We should build refineries, build tanks to separate the oil from the water, and develop every field we have.

Use it up while technology finds a better source. Really though electricity just made by burning oil, so its a reach that electric cars do anything but make cars more expensive then they should be.

This logic applies to combustion engine cars also, they are a net loss in every way but no one is saying don't build them.

[alkemical]

Who says unions will do the work, and not contractors?

Can anyone give me empirical evidence that a for profit business, won't cut corners and allow another accident to happen due to the "perceived" cost?