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View Full Version : Dear New DC,


TheReverend
01-27-2012, 07:07 AM
Whoever you are,

Please institute this defense at the very least in package looks, but I would prefer it to be the base: create a 43 Double Fan which would obviously be played out of an under front (akin to below only with tighter splits than the 3T DT and 7 DE):

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/09/08/sports/08fifthdown-eleph/08fifthdown-eleph-blogSpan.jpg

Background:

A double fan classically comes from 34 looks. Essentially it means the DL is going to adjust their splits so they're basically heads up on the opposing IOL (NT over C, DEs over Gs). What makes this a double fan is the pass rushing ability of BOTH 34 OLBs (see Pittsburgh's Harrison and Woodley -- also note the leaps and bounds of improvement of Washington's defense by adding Kerrigan opposite Orakpo and often playing double fans). Both OLBs will them line up over the tackles.
What does this create? One on one match ups across the board. Additionally, blitzing an ILB over the A gaps gives him a STRAIGHT shot at the QB with AT MOST a RB to try and stop him.


Von Miller gives us the freedom to apply this to our 43.

Imagine Elvis, Thomas, Bunkley, Ayers, Miller all one on one against the opposing OL. Getting wood yet? Good, let's go deeper.

Press coverage behind it. Lackluster for turnovers, for sure (at least until the effectiveness starts to embolden to jumping routes and putting 6 on the board with semi-regularity), but provides the rush and blitz another second to get to the QB and will be certain to cause both incompletions and sacks (*probably even more prominently intentional groundings) in spades. Press coverage (needed upgrades at RCB and nickel back), with a cover 1 safety (Moore dependent on development), and a box safety (Carter) to baby sit the TE to accommodate a potentially blitzing LB.

Enough pussy footing around when we have significant pressure weapons.
Kill em all, let Tebow sort em out.

montrose
01-27-2012, 07:11 AM
http://www.jaguarsgab.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/del-rio.gif

Roger that...

Butterscotch Stallion
01-27-2012, 07:11 AM
I prefer the 3-8 we ran against NE.

eddie mac
01-27-2012, 07:13 AM
I dont think we'll be able to get an elephant in that new Nike gear. Would a baby one do???

jhns
01-27-2012, 07:15 AM
A little OT, but you made me wonder. Have any names even been mentioned for d-coordinator yet? I just realized I haven't seen anything about us looking at guys. Is that a sign we are just promoting from within?

Also, more on topic, how much of the defense was Allen? Did our scheme look a lot different than what Fox had in Carolina or will we see something new with each new coordinator? I didn't watch the Panthers much.

BroncoBen
01-27-2012, 07:23 AM
A little OT, but you made me wonder. Have any names even been mentioned for d-coordinator yet? I just realized I haven't seen anything about us looking at guys. Is that a sign we are just promoting from within?

Also, more on topic, how much of the defense was Allen? Did our scheme look a lot different than what Fox had in Carolina or will we see something new with each new coordinator? I didn't watch the Panthers much.

I know.. I was a little surprised to hear John Fox say he was in no rush to name a DC.

To me that sounds like the Broncos have someone on staff they are promoting.

I also wonder if Dennis Allen is going to bring any of the other coaches from the Broncos to Oakland.

Beantown Bronco
01-27-2012, 07:24 AM
What are the Vegas odds of whoever it is, coming in on day one and quoting some variation of the following within the first 3 minutes of his introductory press conference:

"We're going to cut the DL loose."

alkemical
01-27-2012, 07:27 AM
I know.. I was a little surprised to hear John Fox say he was in no rush to name a DC.

To me that sounds like the Broncos have someone on staff they are promoting.

I also wonder if Dennis Allen is going to bring any of the other coaches from the Broncos to Oakland.

They could take Tuten for Strength & conditioning....

:D

Gort
01-27-2012, 07:29 AM
I prefer the 3-8 we ran against NE.

don't forget the 10-yard cushions. those are really effective at letting a receiver get up to speed unmolested so they can make a move and juke out our young secondary players. i just l-o-v-e those 10-yard cushions. they remind me of the Slowick era... good times.

alkemical
01-27-2012, 07:30 AM
I prefer the 3-8 we ran against NE.

Or the Ray Rhodes 2-9....

Beantown Bronco
01-27-2012, 07:31 AM
Or the Ray Rhodes 2-9....

With 220 lb Ian Gold being one of the "2".

alkemical
01-27-2012, 07:32 AM
With 220 lb Ian Gold being one of the "2".

Mind=Blown!

Of course, not having any talent on the DL....

damn - just typing that made me realize how ****ty the DL has been....for that long.

gyldenlove
01-27-2012, 07:46 AM
This looks suspeciously like a wide-9 with the SLB playing the role of the SDE and the SDE taking away the B gap run to the right which is normally very vulnerable.

TheReverend
01-27-2012, 07:50 AM
This looks suspeciously like a wide-9 with the SLB playing the role of the SDE and the SDE taking away the B gap run to the right which is normally very vulnerable.

That's because you clearly looked at the picture and didn't bother reading the post. Beneath you, this was.

BroncoInferno
01-27-2012, 08:19 AM
http://www.jaguarsgab.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/del-rio.gif

Roger that...

I'm not going to get my hopes up for Del Rio. I expect the uninspired, Slowik-style hiring of Smith, especially if Allen is sniffing around.

gyldenlove
01-27-2012, 08:28 AM
That's because you clearly looked at the picture and didn't bother reading the post. Beneath you, this was.

Damn, I could have sworn my chair was beneath me - I shall consider this new theory of yours.

schaaf
01-27-2012, 08:40 AM
http://www.jaguarsgab.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/del-rio.gif

Roger that...

Hey Raj, you heard anything about the possibility of Del Rio???

vancejohnson82
01-27-2012, 08:40 AM
Andre Goodman would be strongly against this

Garcia Bronco
01-27-2012, 08:44 AM
We'd need to sign Bunkley and Thomas first.

vancejohnson82
01-27-2012, 08:48 AM
We'd need to sign Bunkley and Thomas first.

it's going to be very hard to sign both of them with all of the attention they are sure to garner this off-season

:afro:

scorpio
01-27-2012, 08:52 AM
We'd need to sign Bunkley and Thomas first.

Bunkley is going to get big money on the open market. I'm not optimistic about keeping him.

bowtown
01-27-2012, 08:54 AM
A little OT, but you made me wonder. Have any names even been mentioned for d-coordinator yet? I just realized I haven't seen anything about us looking at guys. Is that a sign we are just promoting from within?

Also, more on topic, how much of the defense was Allen? Did our scheme look a lot different than what Fox had in Carolina or will we see something new with each new coordinator? I didn't watch the Panthers much.

Hopefully they are taking a hard look at Spags or Nolan.

Spider
01-27-2012, 08:55 AM
This looks suspeciously like a wide-9 with the SLB playing the role of the SDE and the SDE taking away the B gap run to the right which is normally very vulnerable.

no it isnt , but no plan is going to work as long as we are giving Cushions with no pressure up front and no line backer that can cover a TE ........

Beantown Bronco
01-27-2012, 08:57 AM
Hopefully they are taking a hard look at Spags or Nolan.

My thoughts exactly. :)

Killericon
01-27-2012, 09:09 AM
Hopefully they are taking a hard look at Spags or Nolan.

Both have jobs already.

bronco militia
01-27-2012, 09:11 AM
what about the former coaches from St. Louis and Miami?

TheReverend
01-27-2012, 09:11 AM
Hopefully they are taking a hard look at Spags or Nolan.

I'm going to kill you. :rofl:

bronco militia
01-27-2012, 09:12 AM
I'm going to kill you. :rofl:

LOL

Powderaddict
01-27-2012, 09:21 AM
dammit deleted the reply, tried to read on my phone and completely misunderstood.

I like it. I do think that there's a lot of potential for big gains by opposing offenses, obviously upgrades in secondary performance will be critical.

The way the passing game is so protected anymore I think you need to be more aggressive on the pass rush though, the best way to stop a QB is to not let the ball get out of his hands and to make him uncomfortable-I think this would really play well to the strengths we have on defense. It could very easily be exploited by the weaknesses we have if we don't get to the QB though.

High risk/High reward. You HAVE to get to the QB for this to work, often.

montrose
01-27-2012, 09:26 AM
Hey Raj, you heard anything about the possibility of Del Rio???

He was having drinks with Fox in Mobile the day after Allen took the Oakland gig. I'd say he's the likely favorite at this point - especially with Dean Peas taking the Ravens job and Smith looking like he's going to Oakland to be their DC.

My guess is the job is his if he wants it, which isn't a sure thing because he's going to be paid the same amount to sit at home this year if he wants and his kid is a top HS QB recruit. With that, he was in Mobile which is where coaches hunt for jobs so unless he was there to catch up with friends, he'd likely be interested.

The concern I'm sure is the long-term consistency as he already interviewed for KC's HCing job so he wants to move back into that role and you'd have to imagine he and McCoy will be getting interviewed again next year. With that, I've noticed most good HCs dont avoid hiring guys that might leave but rather encourage their development as it tends to make them better coaches. Also, if a HC gets a rep for being a guy who develops other HCs then some of the best assistants will want to be a part of that. So I wouldn't think the Broncos would avoid Del Rio out of fear he leaves to become a HC again. If he doesn't become the DC, it would be for other reasons (on either side) IMO.

There will be other candidates though, Mike Klis pointed out yesterday that Fox had no relationship with Allen prior to hiring him (and if you remember, Jim Mora Jr. was the original 1st choice - a former HC himself) but rather found out about him through a network of friends - in this instance, he called his buddy Sean Payton from their Giants days who gave him a good recommendation. So there is a larger pool since Fox has been around so long and has a lot of friends around the league. You add in Elway's contacts and realistically there's a crap load of guys they could look it, but my first guess would be Del Rio makes a lot of sense.

broncosteven
01-27-2012, 10:47 AM
...
There will be other candidates though, Mike Klis pointed out yesterday that Fox had no relationship with Allen prior to hiring him (and if you remember, Jim Mora Jr. was the original 1st choice - a former HC himself) but rather found out about him through a network of friends - in this instance, he called his buddy Sean Payton from their Giants days who gave him a good recommendation. So there is a larger pool since Fox has been around so long and has a lot of friends around the league. You add in Elway's contacts and realistically there's a crap load of guys they could look it, but my first guess would be Del Rio makes a lot of sense.

This is so much more encouraging than when we had that young punk for HC who had no NFL contacts and relied on his agent to recommend his 1st DC and he pulled his second from either HS or College ranks.

This is what hiring an experienced HC gives you, loads of options to go with the experience.

Bronco Rob
01-27-2012, 11:09 AM
Baltimore Ravens head coach John Harbaugh announced Friday, Jan. 27, that linebackers coach Dean Pees has been promoted to defensive coordinator.

2012-01-27 08:20:53 | Source: ESPN.com - Jamison Hensley




another one bites the dust.

Pony Boy
01-27-2012, 11:39 AM
With the success of Gronkouski, Hernandez and Davis, the big push in the draft this year will be big TE's and teams trying to figure out how to cover them. We can't cover these guys in a zone defense and we need to get ahead of the curve and find bigger defensive backs that can cover or we will continue to get ripped apart.

Butterscotch Stallion
01-27-2012, 12:19 PM
just found Mccoy's playbook! so excited. I know this is off topic, but since this is a football discussion type thread I thought it would fit:





30129

bowtown
01-27-2012, 12:24 PM
I'm going to kill you. :rofl:

:injured:

pricejj
01-27-2012, 12:26 PM
He was having drinks with Fox in Mobile the day after Allen took the Oakland gig. I'd say he's the likely favorite at this point - especially with Dean Peas taking the Ravens job and Smith looking like he's going to Oakland to be their DC.

My guess is the job is his if he wants it, which isn't a sure thing because he's going to be paid the same amount to sit at home this year if he wants and his kid is a top HS QB recruit. With that, he was in Mobile which is where coaches hunt for jobs so unless he was there to catch up with friends, he'd likely be interested.

The concern I'm sure is the long-term consistency as he already interviewed for KC's HCing job so he wants to move back into that role and you'd have to imagine he and McCoy will be getting interviewed again next year. With that, I've noticed most good HCs dont avoid hiring guys that might leave but rather encourage their development as it tends to make them better coaches. Also, if a HC gets a rep for being a guy who develops other HCs then some of the best assistants will want to be a part of that. So I wouldn't think the Broncos would avoid Del Rio out of fear he leaves to become a HC again. If he doesn't become the DC, it would be for other reasons (on either side) IMO.

There will be other candidates though, Mike Klis pointed out yesterday that Fox had no relationship with Allen prior to hiring him (and if you remember, Jim Mora Jr. was the original 1st choice - a former HC himself) but rather found out about him through a network of friends - in this instance, he called his buddy Sean Payton from their Giants days who gave him a good recommendation. So there is a larger pool since Fox has been around so long and has a lot of friends around the league. You add in Elway's contacts and realistically there's a crap load of guys they could look it, but my first guess would be Del Rio makes a lot of sense.

Nolan was a good hire (and was only here for one year)...Would be nice to bring in Del Rio, with a good LB coach (if Smith leaves) to groom as a possible replacement.

Jack "Of the River" would be a significant upgrade over Dennis Allen.

Beantown Bronco
01-27-2012, 12:34 PM
With the success of Gronkouski, Hernandez and Davis, the big push in the draft this year will be big TE's and teams trying to figure out how to cover them. We can't cover these guys in a zone defense and we need to get ahead of the curve and find bigger defensive backs that can cover or we will continue to get ripped apart.

Lenny Walls was simply ahead of his time. :)

gyldenlove
01-27-2012, 12:39 PM
Lenny Walls was simply ahead of his time. :)

Hater!

Beantown Bronco
01-27-2012, 12:41 PM
Hater!

I loved Lenny Walls.









When he played for BC.

gyldenlove
01-27-2012, 12:43 PM
I loved Lenny Walls.









When he played for BC.

We all loved Lenny Walls.

Shananahan
01-27-2012, 01:05 PM
Press coverage (needed upgrades at RCB and nickel back), with a cover 1 safety (Moore dependent on development), and a box safety (Carter) to baby sit the TE to accommodate a potentially blitzing LB.
dobviously upgrades in secondary performance will be critical.
This stuff is pretty critical to any sort of success our next DC will have, I think. Talent up the middle of the defense is needed, but our secondary is pure dogschit at the moment, considering Dawkins is probably done and Bailey can only do so much.

Chris
01-27-2012, 01:19 PM
I read somewhere that we shouldn't go after Del Rio because he'd be getting head coaching offers in 2 or 3 years. If that were the case then it would mean he'd done a great job FFS.

The thing that does concern me is that he's already getting paid over a million bucks to sit at home this year and his son is apparently a serious QB (in FL or Cali... I forget). Maybe we need Von Miller to bring JDR to Vegas.

Chris
01-27-2012, 01:20 PM
what about the former coaches from St. Louis and Miami?

Those guys have been hired.

But we should look at Steve Spaghetti and Nolan Ryan.

gyldenlove
01-27-2012, 01:24 PM
Those guys have been hired.

But we should look at Steve Spaghetti and Nolan Ryan.

We already got rid of our noodle-armed QB.

pricejj
01-27-2012, 01:38 PM
I read somewhere that we shouldn't go after Del Rio because he'd be getting head coaching offers in 2 or 3 years. If that were the case then it would mean he'd done a great job FFS.

The thing that does concern me is that he's already getting paid over a million bucks to sit at home this year and his son is apparently a serious QB (in FL or Cali... I forget). Maybe we need Von Miller to bring JDR to Vegas.

The Broncos have a stable, devensive-minded Head Coach in John Fox. The defense improved from worst-in-the-league to 24th. The defense is still crappy, but EFX appears to be hell-bent on adding more defensive talent. The Broncos team overall is improving rapidly, and coming off a playoff win against the formidable Steelers.

There are no remaining HC spots in the NFL. If I was JDR (who got fired from his last HC gig), I would make a bee-line to the airport to sign the papers.

Beantown Bronco
01-27-2012, 01:48 PM
If I was JDR (who got fired from his last HC gig), I would make a bee-line to the airport to sign the papers.

Why? He can sit home for a year, enjoy life in FL, watch the kids play sports, and collect $5 mil to do nothing.

broncosteven
01-27-2012, 02:03 PM
With the success of Gronkouski, Hernandez and Davis, the big push in the draft this year will be big TE's and teams trying to figure out how to cover them. We can't cover these guys in a zone defense and we need to get ahead of the curve and find bigger defensive backs that can cover or we will continue to get ripped apart.

Or get an MLB who can cover and diag a play, having one safety worth a damn would help too.

broncosteven
01-27-2012, 02:04 PM
Why? He can sit home for a year, enjoy life in FL, watch the kids play sports, and collect $5 mil to do nothing.

Because people forget about you when your not around, no guarantee he could have his pick of gigs next year.

Beantown Bronco
01-27-2012, 02:15 PM
Because people forget about you when your not around, no guarantee he could have his pick of gigs next year.

Ummm, last time I checked, he doesn't have his pick of gigs THIS year.

(And Gruden and Cowher have been out how long now, and they still are the go to names every year)

Tombstone RJ
01-27-2012, 02:30 PM
Because people forget about you when your not around, no guarantee he could have his pick of gigs next year.

dick vermiel disagrees :P

Chris
01-27-2012, 02:35 PM
He was having drinks with Fox in Mobile the day after Allen took the Oakland gig. I'd say he's the likely favorite at this point - especially with Dean Peas taking the Ravens job and Smith looking like he's going to Oakland to be their DC.

My guess is the job is his if he wants it, which isn't a sure thing because he's going to be paid the same amount to sit at home this year if he wants and his kid is a top HS QB recruit. With that, he was in Mobile which is where coaches hunt for jobs so unless he was there to catch up with friends, he'd likely be interested.

The concern I'm sure is the long-term consistency as he already interviewed for KC's HCing job so he wants to move back into that role and you'd have to imagine he and McCoy will be getting interviewed again next year. With that, I've noticed most good HCs dont avoid hiring guys that might leave but rather encourage their development as it tends to make them better coaches. Also, if a HC gets a rep for being a guy who develops other HCs then some of the best assistants will want to be a part of that. So I wouldn't think the Broncos would avoid Del Rio out of fear he leaves to become a HC again. If he doesn't become the DC, it would be for other reasons (on either side) IMO.

There will be other candidates though, Mike Klis pointed out yesterday that Fox had no relationship with Allen prior to hiring him (and if you remember, Jim Mora Jr. was the original 1st choice - a former HC himself) but rather found out about him through a network of friends - in this instance, he called his buddy Sean Payton from their Giants days who gave him a good recommendation. So there is a larger pool since Fox has been around so long and has a lot of friends around the league. You add in Elway's contacts and realistically there's a crap load of guys they could look it, but my first guess would be Del Rio makes a lot of sense.

Excellent point.

TheReverend
01-27-2012, 02:44 PM
Ummm, last time I checked, he doesn't have his pick of gigs THIS year.

(And Gruden and Cowher have been out how long now, and they still are the go to names every year)

Due to his personality and success (and lack thereof as well), he doesn't have too many positive relationships that can put him at the forefront of work outside of through Fox. If he doesn't take adv of this opening its decent odds he'd have to start climbing the ranks as a LB coach again.

Also, something to take into account along with his son's football career, my gf does the insurance of the place he lives at and he rents.

Butterscotch Stallion
01-27-2012, 03:39 PM
just found Mccoy's playbook! so excited. I know this is off topic, but since this is a football discussion type thread I thought it would fit:





30129



oubronco negged me for this....what a girl.

Chris
01-28-2012, 07:35 AM
oubronco negged me for this....what a girl.

Some people just don't "get" art.

teknic
01-28-2012, 11:13 AM
don't forget the 10-yard cushions. those are really effective at letting a receiver get up to speed unmolested so they can make a move and juke out our young secondary players. i just l-o-v-e those 10-yard cushions. they remind me of the Slowick era... good times.

This. I also blame the huge cushions for the tendency of the Broncos defense to get shredded by screens.

Butterscotch Stallion
01-28-2012, 11:38 AM
Some people just don't "get" art.

it's a hard life, let me tell you.

Agamemnon
01-28-2012, 08:22 PM
Whoever you are,

Please institute this defense at the very least in package looks, but I would prefer it to be the base: create a 43 Double Fan which would obviously be played out of an under front (akin to below only with tighter splits than the 3T DT and 7 DE):

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/09/08/sports/08fifthdown-eleph/08fifthdown-eleph-blogSpan.jpg

Background:

A double fan classically comes from 34 looks. Essentially it means the DL is going to adjust their splits so they're basically heads up on the opposing IOL (NT over C, DEs over Gs). What makes this a double fan is the pass rushing ability of BOTH 34 OLBs (see Pittsburgh's Harrison and Woodley -- also note the leaps and bounds of improvement of Washington's defense by adding Kerrigan opposite Orakpo and often playing double fans). Both OLBs will them line up over the tackles.
What does this create? One on one match ups across the board. Additionally, blitzing an ILB over the A gaps gives him a STRAIGHT shot at the QB with AT MOST a RB to try and stop him.


Von Miller gives us the freedom to apply this to our 43.

Imagine Elvis, Thomas, Bunkley, Ayers, Miller all one on one against the opposing OL. Getting wood yet? Good, let's go deeper.

Press coverage behind it. Lackluster for turnovers, for sure (at least until the effectiveness starts to embolden to jumping routes and putting 6 on the board with semi-regularity), but provides the rush and blitz another second to get to the QB and will be certain to cause both incompletions and sacks (*probably even more prominently intentional groundings) in spades. Press coverage (needed upgrades at RCB and nickel back), with a cover 1 safety (Moore dependent on development), and a box safety (Carter) to baby sit the TE to accommodate a potentially blitzing LB.

Enough p***Y footing around when we have significant pressure weapons.
Kill em all, let Tebow sort em out.

So you are basically advocating we run a 5-2 as our base defense? Seems like short timing patterns would eat that up to me. We might be able to generate more pressure with such a defense, but we'll be completely compromised in coverage against elite QB's with quick releases.

I like the package as a look that should be implemented in certain situations, but no way to the idea of it being our base defense.

ColoradoDarin
01-28-2012, 08:25 PM
So you are basically advocating we run a 5-2 as our base defense? Seems like short timing patterns would eat that up to me. We might be able to generate more pressure with such a defense, but we'll be completely compromised in coverage against elite QB's with quick releases.

I like the package as a look that should be implemented in certain situations, but no way to the idea of it being our base defense.

Happening now.

Swedish Extrovert
01-28-2012, 09:06 PM
Bunkley is going to get big money on the open market. I'm not optimistic about keeping him.

We need to resign Bunkley.

Agamemnon
01-28-2012, 10:37 PM
Happening now.

Yep, and it wouldn't get better with an uber-aggressive 5-2 base defense. To run Rev's defense as the base defense we would need two awesome man-press corners and two awesome coverage safeties (which we categorically do not have at all right now), and even then I'm not sure it would be sound against the quick timing patterns of teams like the Patriots.

Beantown Bronco
01-29-2012, 05:59 AM
, and even then I'm not sure it would be sound against the quick timing patterns of teams like the Patriots.

Well, to be fair, what defense HAS been working against their offense....short of one with at least 4 awesome DLinemen?

TheReverend
01-29-2012, 09:44 AM
So you are basically advocating we run a 5-2 as our base defense? Seems like short timing patterns would eat that up to me. We might be able to generate more pressure with such a defense, but we'll be completely compromised in coverage against elite QB's with quick releases.

I like the package as a look that should be implemented in certain situations, but no way to the idea of it being our base defense.

The post you clicked "reply" to answers this ::)

Shananahan
01-29-2012, 11:19 AM
I like threads like this. The board needs more of them.

That said, nothing will work until we have the talent in the secondary levels to at least only get marginally abused in the quick passing game. As was said, our safeties need to make vast improvements and Goodman either needs to start huffing HGH daily or be replaced. Even with a guy like Mays and our mediocre DTs, solid safety play would have made the team look much better at key times this past season.

TheReverend
01-29-2012, 11:28 AM
I like threads like this. The board needs more of them.

That said, nothing will work until we have the talent in the secondary levels to at least only get marginally abused in the quick passing game. As was said, our safeties need to make vast improvements and Goodman either needs to start huffing HGH daily or be replaced. Even with a guy like Mays and our mediocre DTs, solid safety play would have made the team look much better at key times this past season.

We NEED two new, YOUNG, talented corners.

...that being said, once we replace Goodman with a good football player, everything else will improve dramatically along with it

Swedish Extrovert
01-29-2012, 11:38 AM
We NEED two new, YOUNG, talented corners.

...that being said, once we replace Goodman with a good football player, everything else will improve dramatically along with it

We need them quick so they can learn under Bailey.

I think we should pick up Rashaen Mathis this offseason, then make a move for Tyrann Mathieu next year.

Honestly, I think the 1st could be an OG. Beadles is solid but not elite, and Tebow is most effective with an elite OL.

Wouldn't mind taking a DT in the 1st either to rotate with Warren, Bunkley, Vickerson, and Thomas. Is 5 DTs too many?

maher_tyler
01-29-2012, 12:11 PM
This. I also blame the huge cushions for the tendency of the Broncos defense to get shredded by screens.

I like to think that our coaches were a bunch of pussies...if you're going to lose, at least go down swinging! The run, run, run offense and 3 rush D at times was pure chicken ****!!

Any chance we get Mathis?? That'd be a nice vet opposite Champ. Despite what others think, we have youth all over our secondary. Harris imppressed. Carter looked good for a rookie. Moore was banged up all year..he didn't impress me much but again, he was a rookie. I expect much bigger things from him next year after learning on the run. We still have Squid and Vaughn. I see us going for a vet CB via free agency. Draft a DT or MLB with the first couple of picks. I see us being a little more aggressive in FA this year. Hopefully Warren can come back healthy and back to form. Re-sign Bunkley. Sign Kampman and Mathis through FA. Pick up a change of pace RB while adding a receiving TE or another WR.

For the base D i'd like it to look something like this:

DE - Doom
DT - Warren
DT - Bunk
DE - Ayers/Kampman

WLB - DJ
MLB - Connor?? Rookie??
SLB - Miller

CB - Champ
FS - Carter
SS - Moore
CB - Mathis

Agamemnon
01-29-2012, 04:36 PM
The post you clicked "reply" to answers this ::)

How so? Because you mention press coverage? Press coverage is fine and dandy, but we don't have the physical press corners to really pull it off as our base defense.

TheReverend
01-29-2012, 04:45 PM
How so? Because you mention press coverage?

Yes... press coverage is specifically designed to disrupt timing (your main gripe) and if it's weak against anything, it's longer developing 5+ step drops. Absolutely not short timing throws (stronger against zones and off man, specifically cover 3).

Press coverage is fine and dandy, but we don't have the physical press corners to really pull it off as our base defense.

Justify this assumption?

Agamemnon
01-29-2012, 05:01 PM
Yes... press coverage is specifically designed to disrupt timing (your main gripe) and if it's weak against anything, it's longer developing 5+ step drops. Absolutely not short timing throws (stronger against zones and off man, specifically cover 3).

I'm very well aware of that, but there are a lot of ways to get around that. Motioning receivers and and good use of the slot position allows teams to still use timing patterns against press coverage. Screen passes also seem like they would likely be very successful against such a defense with such aggressive pass rushing and a lot of man coverage.


Justify this assumption?

What assumption? Bailey is a coverage corner, not a press guy (he's fine at it, but it's not exactly his strength), and Goodman is a joke in press coverage (he's a joke in general). Harris might be a good press corner, I don't know, but it seems to me that we would need to commit to drafting press corners exclusively if this was the way we wanted to go. We'd also need to seriously upgrade our safety coverage and MLB coverage, as all those guys would be put under a lot of pressure in the passing game in a defense that functionally amounts to a blitz on every down.

I'm not saying I don't like the package mind you. I really do actually. I just think it's too easy to exploit a defense like that if we are using it as our base set.

TheReverend
01-29-2012, 05:07 PM
I'm very well aware of that, but there are a lot of ways to get around that. Motioning receivers and and good use of the slot position allows teams to still use timing patterns against press coverage.

That's not true at all...

Screen passes also seem like they would likely be very successful against such a defense with such aggressive pass rushing and a lot of man coverage.

Yes.

What assumption? Bailey is a coverage corner, not a press guy (he's fine at it, but it's not exactly his strength), and Goodman is a joke in press coverage (he's a joke in general). Harris might be a good press corner, I don't know, but it seems to me that we would need to commit to drafting press corners exclusively if this was the way we wanted to go. We'd also need to seriously upgrade our safety coverage and MLB coverage, as all those guys would be put under a lot of pressure in the passing game in a defense that functionally amounts to a blitz on every down.

I'm not saying I don't like the package mind you. I really do actually. I just think it's too easy to exploit a defense like that if we are using it as our base set.

Bailey was a predominantly a press corner for the first half of his career. Goodman IS a joke in general. Harris played a lot of press snaps this past year and Vaughn was a man-cover corner.

Also C1 would be asking our safeties to do what they did most of the season, so no point there either.

Agamemnon
01-29-2012, 05:27 PM
That's not true at all...

Care to elaborate? As far as I'm aware, motioning receivers has long been used to counter press coverage as it allows you to get a receiver moving and off the line of scrimmage before the snap (particularly if you motion a receiver and snap the ball as he's moving). The slot position is likewise off the line of scrimmage and therefore harder to jam.


Bailey was a predominantly a press corner for the first half of his career. Goodman IS a joke in general. Harris played a lot of press snaps this past year and Vaughn was a man-cover corner.

Also C1 would be asking our safeties to do what they did most of the season, so no point there either.

Bailey hasn't played that style in years, and isn't the athlete he was when he was younger. And our safeties failed utterly in their coverage duties this season, so that seems to be a pretty big issue actually.

You also didn't mention the MLB coverage. Don't you think we would need a MLB who had elite coverage skills to really make this work?

Again, what you are advocating is blitzing nearly every down with at least one extra guy, and that comes with serious problems. No matter what formation you use.

TheReverend
01-29-2012, 05:33 PM
Care to elaborate? As far as I'm aware, motioning receivers has long been used to counter press coverage as it allows you to get a receiver moving and off the line of scrimmage before the snap (particularly if you motion a receiver and snap the ball as he's moving). The slot position is likewise off the line of scrimmage and therefore harder to jam.

There's a specific number of players that HAVE to be on the LOS. Motioning a player does nothing to effect who and how many you can get that jam off of... a SE will still be an SE and a Flanker will still be a flanker...

Bailey hasn't played that style in years, and isn't the athlete he was when he was younger. And our safeties failed utterly in their coverage duties this season, so that seems to be a pretty big issue actually.

You also didn't mention the MLB coverage. Don't you think we would need a MLB who had elite coverage skills to really make this work?

Again, what you are advocating is blitzing nearly every down with at least one extra guy, and that comes with serious problems. No matter what formation you use.

Clearly you dont understand this.

It's specifically DESIGNED to help coverage limitations by attacking the pocket...

Agamemnon
01-29-2012, 06:47 PM
There's a specific number of players that HAVE to be on the LOS. Motioning a player does nothing to effect who and how many you can get that jam off of... a SE will still be an SE and a Flanker will still be a flanker...


I know this. But you can choose to line up your #1 receiver in the slot or put him in motion to counter the jam. That was my point.


Clearly you dont understand this.

It's specifically DESIGNED to help coverage limitations by attacking the pocket...

I understand that it basically boils down to trying to get 1-on-1 blocking situations to generate pressure, and that that can help your coverage if you win those 1-on-1 matchups. But even with dominant pass rushers at those five positions (right now we have two), you aren't going to always win those match ups, or at least not immediately (and offenses are going to use TE's and RB's to help out, so you really aren't getting true 1-on-1's anyway). So you need solid coverage units or you are going to end up leading the league in big plays given up very quickly (especially playing press coverage all the time). Live by the blitz, die by the blitz. What you are advocating is definitely living by the blitz.

Maybe press coverage can completely, or almost completely, negate short timing routes. I'm not convinced, but I suppose if the scheme was implemented really well and we add another solid pass rusher or two, it's possible. Even then, you're still looking at being very vulnerable to big plays without some really good talent in the defensive backfield.