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View Full Version : Prediction: Denver will NOT draft a QB in the first 2 rounds


Armchair Bronco
01-24-2012, 10:58 PM
Prediction: Denver will NOT draft a QB in the first 2 rounds.

AGREE or DISAGREE?

Armchair Bronco
01-24-2012, 11:01 PM
Agree.

It's my own damn prediction, so I agree with myself.

I think we'll go CB or DL in the first, and maybe get a TE in round 2. We won't see a QB until round #3 or later.

TheReverend
01-24-2012, 11:02 PM
Agree.

Drafting a QB in the first two rounds would sign that QB and the FOs death warrant in the court of public opinion. Developing into a legitimate NFL QB is hard enough on a young player without being in a poison environment where the fan base hates you.

HAT
01-24-2012, 11:02 PM
Prediction:

The sky will remain blue tomorrow.

Agree or disagree?

Armchair Bronco
01-24-2012, 11:05 PM
Prediction:

The sky will remain blue tomorrow.

Agree or disagree?

Disagree. Non sequitur. I live is Seattle. The sky is NEVER blue. It's always a shade of gray...unless its raining...like right now...

errand
01-24-2012, 11:11 PM
Agree.

Drafting a QB in the first two rounds would sign that QB and the FOs death warrant in the court of public opinion. Developing into a legitimate NFL QB is hard enough on a young player without being in a poison environment where the fan base hates you.

Why would anyone hate the QB if we draft him in first two rounds? I mean we all know why you would hate him, but explain why the fan base would?

Armchair Bronco
01-24-2012, 11:13 PM
Maybe even the 3rd round is too high. I'll bet we can get 1 or 2 solid read option QB's in the 4th or 5th rounds and sign a veteran backup as well. Someone similar to Seneca Wallace who will not compete outright for the starting job.

maher_tyler
01-24-2012, 11:40 PM
Prediction: Denver will NOT draft a QB in the first 2 rounds.

AGREE or DISAGREE?

Agree. Way to many other holes to fill. We will bring someone in through free agency.

Baba Booey
01-25-2012, 12:01 AM
Agree.

Too many holes to fill and too many impact players available at other positions.

Hoping for Russell Wilson late though.

BroncoMan4ever
01-25-2012, 12:18 AM
i say it depends on what Tebow does before April minicamps and the draft.

if Tim does not hire a QB coach to help him work on his deficiencies as a passer and instead does charity things(which is great to do, but does not help the team though), book tours, golf outings, or that rumor about possibly doing Dancing With The Stars and does his typical workout of lifting weights and working on stamina without any work on his passing game then i would not be in the least surprised if Denver drafts someone like Nick Foles or Brock Osweiler in the 2nd round, or Brandon Wheeden in the 3rd.

Tim has earned the right to begin next Training Camp as the starter, but that doesn't mean he should just be given the job.

the New England game as well as the last few weeks of the season showed that the option game got figured out and Tim needs to learn to make it as a passer. the option game will remain at certain times in games, but it won't be the featured offense anymore. so i seriously doubt the team is going to look for a guy with a similar skill set to Tim. they are going to bring in pocket passers.

Butterscotch Stallion
01-25-2012, 12:24 AM
Why would anyone hate the QB if we draft him in first two rounds? I mean we all know why you would hate him, but explain why the fan base would?

because they are fans of our team?

55CrushEm
01-25-2012, 07:26 AM
Of course we won't draft a QB in the first 2 rounds. WAY too many holes to fill on this team for us to do that.

Spider
01-25-2012, 07:30 AM
prediction ... I will piss someone off today
Agree or disagree ......

Jesterhole
01-25-2012, 07:32 AM
Depends on who is available. We need a QB if Tebow keep progressing or not, so if a good one is there at the end of round 2, I hope we take him.

rugbythug
01-25-2012, 07:49 AM
i say it depends on what Tebow does before April minicamps and the draft.

if Tim does not hire a QB coach to help him work on his deficiencies as a passer and instead does charity things(which is great to do, but does not help the team though), book tours, golf outings, or that rumor about possibly doing Dancing With The Stars and does his typical workout of lifting weights and working on stamina without any work on his passing game then i would not be in the least surprised if Denver drafts someone like Nick Foles or Brock Osweiler in the 2nd round, or Brandon Wheeden in the 3rd.

Tim has earned the right to begin next Training Camp as the starter, but that doesn't mean he should just be given the job.

the New England game as well as the last few weeks of the season showed that the option game got figured out and Tim needs to learn to make it as a passer. the option game will remain at certain times in games, but it won't be the featured offense anymore. so i seriously doubt the team is going to look for a guy with a similar skill set to Tim. they are going to bring in pocket passers.


He already has been doing this.

TheReverend
01-25-2012, 07:59 AM
Why would anyone hate the QB if we draft him in first two rounds? I mean we all know why you would hate him, but explain why the fan base would?

You're seriously a buffoon.

Kaylore
01-25-2012, 08:04 AM
prediction ... I will piss someone off today
Agree or disagree ......

Agree.

Spider
01-25-2012, 08:27 AM
Agree.

^5

montrose
01-25-2012, 09:35 AM
I would've agreed up until yesterday, then as the reports of Weeden looking good came down and some news I heard about the Broncos taking a lot of interest - I just got this nasty feeling this FO is (insert adjective) enough to draft a QB at #25. I hope it won't happen, I don't think it'll happen, but I'm not convinced it won't happen.

scorpio
01-25-2012, 09:40 AM
Agree. Way to many other holes to fill. We will bring someone in through free agency.

My recurring nightmare is that Jake Delhomme somehow ends up here.

Pony Boy
01-25-2012, 09:42 AM
prediction ... I will piss someone off today
Agree or disagree ......

You just did ....

Spider
01-25-2012, 09:43 AM
You just did ....

It is a gift .....

Ray Finkle
01-25-2012, 09:46 AM
I would've agreed up until yesterday, then as the reports of Weeden looking good came down and some news I heard about the Broncos taking a lot of interest - I just got this nasty feeling this FO is (insert adjective) enough to draft a QB at #25. I hope it won't happen, I don't think it'll happen, but I'm not convinced it won't happen.

Late 20's....check
Shoulder issues forced him to give up baseball.....check

cue vomit...

DBroncos4life
01-25-2012, 09:49 AM
I would've agreed up until yesterday, then as the reports of Weeden looking good came down and some news I heard about the Broncos taking a lot of interest - I just got this nasty feeling this FO is (insert adjective) enough to draft a QB at #25. I hope it won't happen, I don't think it'll happen, but I'm not convinced it won't happen.

While Fox didn't draft Weinke he did have him on his roster for 5 or 6 seasons. I think Weeden is much more talented then him. I would not be at all shocked if Denver drafted him.

On a side note about Weinke he helped train Newton during the lock out and he is working with Russell Wilson this year.

TonyR
01-25-2012, 09:55 AM
I would've agreed up until yesterday, then as the reports of Weeden looking good came down and some news I heard about the Broncos taking a lot of interest - I just got this nasty feeling this FO is (insert adjective) enough to draft a QB at #25. I hope it won't happen, I don't think it'll happen, but I'm not convinced it won't happen.

Not specific to Weeden or using a first round pick but this is exactly where I'm at. I won't be at all surprised by a move to bring in competition. My opinion is unpopular and has been bashed by the usual suspects but I think it's very clear that Elway isn't completely sold on Tebow, but at the same time his hands are somewhat tied due to both Tebow's popularity and, more so, the lack of alternatives. But I'm almost certain that Elway is exploring every possible scenario.

Butterscotch Stallion
01-25-2012, 10:19 AM
Not specific to Weeden or using a first round pick but this is exactly where I'm at. I won't be at all surprised by a move to bring in competition. My opinion is unpopular and has been bashed by the usual suspects but I think it's very clear that Elway isn't completely sold on Tebow, but at the same time his hands are somewhat tied due to both Tebow's popularity and, more so, the lack of alternatives. But I'm almost certain that Elway is exploring every possible scenario.

Elway also likes winning. so there is that giant handcuff.

your opinion is unpopular because it sucks, otherwise great job fag.

TonyR
01-25-2012, 10:24 AM
Elway also likes winning. so there is that giant handcuff.

your opinion is unpopular because it sucks, otherwise great job fag.

^ I really hope you're 14 or younger because that would at least partially explain your ignorance and lack of class. You really should strive to raise the level of your discourse. One should be able to engage in some level of intelligent, rational discourse with people of varying opinions without resorting to such coarseness and juvenile name calling.

TheReverend
01-25-2012, 10:26 AM
^ I really hope you're 14 or younger because that would at least partially explain your ignorance and lack of class. You really should strive to raise the level of your discourse. One should be able to engage in some level of intelligent, rational discourse with people of varying opinions without resorting to such coarseness and juvenile name calling.

...There isn't any substance to discuss with your opinion, however.

TonyR
01-25-2012, 10:29 AM
...There isn't any substance to discuss with your opinion, however.

So then you also disagree with montrose? You don't think there's any chance Elway isn't sold? You're far too intelligent to think the style of posting the likes of butterscotch stallion brings to the table is what we need here, even if you agree with his opinion over mine as to Elway's mindset.

Butterscotch Stallion
01-25-2012, 10:30 AM
^ I really hope you're 14 or younger because that would at least partially explain your ignorance and lack of class. You really should strive to raise the level of your discourse. One should be able to engage in some level of intelligent, rational discourse with people of varying opinions without resorting to such coarseness and juvenile name calling.

Why raise my level to talk to a window-licker? that would be unwise and frustrating.

I wouldn't discuss Kafka with a retarded 4 year old chimpanzee, and I certainly won't discuss anything smart with you.




fag.

Butterscotch Stallion
01-25-2012, 10:32 AM
So then you also disagree with montrose? You don't think there's any chance Elway isn't sold? You're far too intelligent to think the style of posting the likes of butterscotch stallion brings to the table is what we need here, even if you agree with his opinion over mine as to Elway's mindset.

look at the chimp and his fancy word usage! first Coco learned to sign and sexually attack women, and now you can type.


aliens?

TonyR
01-25-2012, 10:35 AM
^ I think you should throw around words like "retard" and "fag" more often. Most middle school boys are better mannered.

Butterscotch Stallion
01-25-2012, 10:37 AM
^ I think you should throw around words like "retard" and "fag" more often. Most middle school boys are better mannered.

noted.









tardfag.

RhymesayersDU
01-25-2012, 10:47 AM
The new guy is great.

BroncoBen
01-25-2012, 10:50 AM
Tim Tebow is going to be the QB for the next season, if he improves all is good in BroncoLand.

But I expect EFX to draft a QB in the 3rd or 4th round.. more for a insurance as a backup.

But if Tebow fails.. look for the Broncos to draft a QB high the following draft.. Matt Barkley could be the target.

TonyR
01-25-2012, 10:52 AM
Tim Tebow...

Dear god that avatar is spectacular.

TheReverend
01-25-2012, 11:10 AM
So then you also disagree with montrose? You don't think there's any chance Elway isn't sold? You're far too intelligent to think the style of posting the likes of butterscotch stallion brings to the table is what we need here, even if you agree with his opinion over mine as to Elway's mindset.

I could care less about Elway. He's handcuffed for AT LEAST another year. I'm talking about your view of Tim's "short-comings". I'm still waiting for you to justify your opinion there.

BroncoMan4ever
01-25-2012, 12:03 PM
He already has been doing this.

in the NFL it technically still isn't the offseason. every player no matter what needs to unwind from the game for a couple weeks at least and heal up before training for the next season.

what i meant was that if by late February/early March at the absolute latest, if Tim hasn't gotten with someone to help him in his QB play then it would not be a surprise and would be a smart move if Elway brought in a QB within the first 2 rounds. guys like Foles, Osweiler and Wheeden in the first 3 rounds are guys that Elway would really like.

BroncoMan4ever
01-25-2012, 12:22 PM
I could care less about Elway. He's handcuffed for AT LEAST another year. I'm talking about your view of Tim's "short-comings". I'm still waiting for you to justify your opinion there.

i honestly am curious about just how much does Elway care about how the fans would react to him drafting a QB early. he has been unpopular all season with ignorant fans for not jumping on the Tebow bandwagon immediately. and remains somewhat vilified for only guaranteeing that Tim is the starter heading into camp only and hasn't been named the de facto starter in Denver.

i think John just wants to get this team back on track and if Tim can do that great, but I also think John will bring in an insurance policy from the draft.

i think John will look at a situation like Kolb where he was a backup that became coveted and traded for a kings ransom; and realize that with the new CBA it wouldn't be extremely expensive to draft a QB in the 2nd round potentially to have in case Tim gets hurt or Tim regresses.

looking at the end of our season it is obvious the option offense is not viable as a full time offense and Tim is going to have to learn to make it as a passer or he will be replaced. because of that, more than likely the Broncos will return to the offense they started this season with and sprinkle in some Tebow plays, meaning a more traditional offense and less of a reason to draft a Tebow Style QB and draft a pocket passer instead.

now with the original idea that this team was in line for a 3 year rebuild, i have doubts that the team would be willing to sacrifice year 2 of that rebuild just to appease fans with the Tebow experiment and take a wait and see approach with the QB position heading into year 3 of the rebuild. by doing that and waiting to draft a QB(if Tebow fails) in 2013 we add at least another season if not 2 to what was the original 3 year rebuild.

now by drafting a QB early, we get a few things.

1) insurance in case Tebow fails

2) a solid backup for the next several seasons at a decent price if Tebow proves to be the guy

3) a potential QBOTF learning the system for a year who if necessary can take over in 2013 with a full years worth of NFL knowledge and practice under his belt as opposed to plugging in a rookie.


i believe this team will draft a QB in the 2nd round. Nick Foles will be taken by the Denver Broncos in the 2nd round.

TheReverend
01-25-2012, 12:27 PM
i honestly am curious about just how much does Elway care about how the fans would react to him drafting a QB early. he has been unpopular all season with ignorant fans for not jumping on the Tebow bandwagon immediately.

And stopped reading. Ignorant fans? 1-4 v 7-4? Potentially a 1st round bye team had Orton been shown the door this off-season... not to mention the saved money that could've been invested to need positions (Orton's contract ALONE would've paid for a blue chip like Joseph at our highest need position).

This post is frankly almost as bad as your claim here:

a just good DL will have more of an impact for a defense than a HOF corner ever will.

TonyR
01-25-2012, 12:28 PM
I could care less about Elway. He's handcuffed for AT LEAST another year. I'm talking about your view of Tim's "short-comings". I'm still waiting for you to justify your opinion there.

I'm not aware that I brought up his "shortcomings" in this thread. And I'll assume you're not serious about not knowing what they are since they're widely known and the only thing that's debatable is whether or not he can improve upon them as much as he needs to.

"He's going to have to overhaul everything," says quarterbacks guru George Whitfield, who tutored Newton, Ben Roethlisberger and Terrelle Pryor as they transitioned into the NFL. "He's going to have to go all the way back to the beginning. His throwing motion is a direct relation to what's happening below the waist. You can't put a giant machine gun on a camera tripod. He's going to have to work on the passing and the mechanics. Out of those nine or 10 completions against Pittsburgh, all but two of them were vertical throws. Pretty much everybody can throw it vertical. The challenge is throwing into windows."http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/page/hill-120117/tim-tebow-secure-future-denver-broncos-productive-offseason

TheReverend
01-25-2012, 12:31 PM
I'm not aware that I brought up his "shortcomings" in this thread. And I'll assume you're not serious about not knowing what they are since they're widely known and the only thing that's debatable is whether or not he can improve upon them as much as he needs to.

http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/page/hill-120117/tim-tebow-secure-future-denver-broncos-productive-offseason

Your lack of faith in him is directly attributed to that root so in a sense you bring it up in every thread.

Nice quote. Definitely couldn't find completely opposing view points from significantly better QB minds like Holmgren, Parcells, Belichick, etc...

Now tell me what YOU think he can't do and, most importantly, why. I implore you. It will be fun.

TonyR
01-25-2012, 12:53 PM
Your lack of faith in him is directly attributed to that root so in a sense you bring it up in every thread.

Nice quote. Definitely couldn't find completely opposing view points from significantly better QB minds like Holmgren, Parcells, Belichick, etc...

Now tell me what YOU think he can't do and, most importantly, why. I implore you. It will be fun.

Rev just about everyone outside of Bronocos/Tebow fans has serious doubts about his passing abilities. I'm not sure why you're pretending this is such a controversial opinion. Me and the majority of people who have this opinion might be proven wrong, but unfortunately I think the odds are squarely in our favor (which isn't a positive thing for me as a Broncos fan). Your opinion is heavily biased both because you're a fan of his and of the Broncos, and you appear to be invested in being right, and is further biased by the W/L success he had along with some short bursts of success in the passing game. Unfortunately the preponderance of objective evidence thus far (his completion % alone is a major red flag) suggests that he has major flaws in his passing mechanics and abilities that just may not be correctable. Can he get better? Yes, probably. Can he improve "enough"? There's the sticky wicket...

TheReverend
01-25-2012, 12:56 PM
Rev just about everyone outside of Bronocos/Tebow fans has serious doubts about his passing abilities. I'm not sure why you're pretending this is such a controversial opinion. Me and the majority of people who have this opinion might be proven wrong, but unfortunately I think the odds are squarely in our favor (which isn't a positive thing for me as a Broncos fan). Your opinion is heavily biased both because you're a fan of his and of the Broncos, and you appear to be invested in being right, and is further biased by the W/L success he had along with some short bursts of success in the passing game. Unfortunately the preponderance of objective evidence thus far (his completion % alone is a major red flag) suggests that he has major flaws in his passing mechanics and abilities that just may not be correctable. Can he get better? Yes, probably. Can he improve "enough"? There's the sticky wicket...

And none of us have seen any of them justify those "doubts", have we?

I asked you to list your concerns and why, so we can discuss this in terms of football. If you're in capable of doing that, just say so.

BroncoMan4ever
01-25-2012, 01:02 PM
And stopped reading. Ignorant fans? 1-4 v 7-4? Potentially a 1st round bye team had Orton been shown the door this off-season... not to mention the saved money that could've been invested to need positions (Orton's contract ALONE would've paid for a blue chip like Joseph at our highest need position).

This post is frankly almost as bad as your claim here:

sub 50% passer rating and noticeable regression in passing ability from rookie year to year 2 and fans still freak out when there is talk about anyone not being sold on the guy.

i'm not saying i dislike Tebow, i am calling a lot of his fans ignorant though. everyone wants to throw that won loss stat out, but none of his fans will really look at the rest of his stats. like the fact that over the last 5 games he played worse than the level that got Orton benched and ultimately waived.

Orton 1st 5 games before benching
71.7 Passer RTG, 91 COMPLETIONS, 155 ATTEMPTS, 59% Comp %, 979 Yards, 8 TDs, 7 INTs 1-4 record

Tebow last 5 games of season
63.5 Passer RTG, 49 Completions, 120 Attempts, 41% Comp %, 891 Yards, 3 TDs, 4 INTs 1-4 record

now i don't disagree with you about Orton at all. but i never brought the guy up in my previous post. but now, why is it that 1 guy can suck so badly that he is vilified and ultimately dumped while the other guy has fans jumping up outraged at the claim that fans and people in the organization aren't sold on the guy after he played worse?

now onto the wins aspect of yours and every Tebow fans argument since his QB play has been extremely underwhelming. Vince Young has a really good winning percentage. 31-18 career wins-loss ratio for a career .633 winning percentage which is higher than Tebow's, yet no one anywhere is really clamoring for Young to start anywhere because of the deficiencies in his game.


and since you just won't let a post from almost a full year ago drop, let's go into that too.

who would have been more valuable to this team this season?

Ty Warren fully healthy back at his former level of play or a clone of Champ Bailey lined up across from Champ.


whether or not you want to admit it, and since obviously you have never admitted to being wrong about anything on this board even after you get burned repeatedly. a good DL would have been more beneficial to the overall good of this team than would another awesome CB.

Spider
01-25-2012, 01:07 PM
sub 50% passer rating and noticeable regression in passing ability from rookie year to year 2 and fans still freak out when there is talk about anyone not being sold on the guy.

i'm not saying i dislike Tebow, i am calling a lot of his fans ignorant though. everyone wants to throw that won loss stat out, but none of his fans will really look at the rest of his stats. like the fact that over the last 5 games he played worse than the level that got Orton benched and ultimately waived.

Orton 1st 5 games before benching
71.7 Passer RTG, 91 COMPLETIONS, 155 ATTEMPTS, 59% Comp %, 979 Yards, 8 TDs, 7 INTs 1-4 record

Tebow last 5 games of season
63.5 Passer RTG, 49 Completions, 120 Attempts, 41% Comp %, 891 Yards, 3 TDs, 4 INTs 1-4 record

now i don't disagree with you about Orton at all. but i never brought the guy up in my previous post. but now, why is it that 1 guy can suck so badly that he is vilified and ultimately dumped while the other guy has fans jumping up outraged at the claim that fans and people in the organization aren't sold on the guy after he played worse?

now onto the wins aspect of yours and every Tebow fans argument since his QB play has been extremely underwhelming. Vince Young has a really good winning percentage. 31-18 career wins-loss ratio for a career .633 winning percentage which is higher than Tebow's, yet no one anywhere is really clamoring for Young to start anywhere


and since you just won't let a post from almost a full year ago drop, let's go into that too.

who would have been more valuable to this team this season?

Ty Warren fully healthy back at his former level of play or a clone of Champ Bailey lined up across from Champ.


whether or not you want to admit it, and since obviously you have never admitted to being wrong about anything on this board even after you get burned repeatedly. a good DL would have been more beneficial to the overall good of this team than would another awesome CB.
rep .......

TheReverend
01-25-2012, 01:09 PM
sub 50% passer rating and noticeable regression in passing ability from rookie year to year 2 and fans still freak out when there is talk about anyone not being sold on the guy.

i'm not saying i dislike Tebow, i am calling a lot of his fans ignorant though. everyone wants to throw that won loss stat out, but none of his fans will really look at the rest of his stats. like the fact that over the last 5 games he played worse than the level that got Orton benched and ultimately waived.

Orton 1st 5 games before benching
71.7 Passer RTG, 91 COMPLETIONS, 155 ATTEMPTS, 59% Comp %, 979 Yards, 8 TDs, 7 INTs 1-4 record

Tebow last 5 games of season
63.5 Passer RTG, 49 Completions, 120 Attempts, 41% Comp %, 891 Yards, 3 TDs, 4 INTs 1-4 record

now i don't disagree with you about Orton at all. but i never brought the guy up in my previous post. but now, why is it that 1 guy can suck so badly that he is vilified and ultimately dumped while the other guy has fans jumping up outraged at the claim that fans and people in the organization aren't sold on the guy after he played worse?

now onto the wins aspect of yours and every Tebow fans argument since his QB play has been extremely underwhelming. Vince Young has a really good winning percentage. 31-18 career wins-loss ratio for a career .633 winning percentage which is higher than Tebow's, yet no one anywhere is really clamoring for Young to start anywhere


Sub 50% passer "rating" (not "rating" by the way, douche bag) : How much of that was dependent on being at the bottom of the league in drops by WRs, TEs and RBs? How much of that comes from the extremely high ratio of passes : low percentage shots down the field?

Answer: You're not worth my ****ing time

and since you just won't let a post from almost a full year ago drop, let's go into that too.

who would have been more valuable to this team this season?

Ty Warren fully healthy back at his former level of play or a clone of Champ Bailey lined up across from Champ.


whether or not you want to admit it, and since obviously you have never admitted to being wrong about anything on this board even after you get burned repeatedly. a good DL would have been more beneficial to the overall good of this team than would another awesome CB.

I can't fathom you actually thinking that SUPPORTS your horrid opinion...

ZONA
01-25-2012, 01:10 PM
Put me down for way too many other holes to fill. We need those picks from the first 2 rounds to be impact players on defense.

Win the LOS battle, win the game !!!

Archer81
01-25-2012, 01:14 PM
Why raise my level to talk to a window-licker? that would be unwise and frustrating.

I wouldn't discuss Kafka with a retarded 4 year old chimpanzee, and I certainly won't discuss anything smart with you.




fag.


:oyvey:

:Broncos:

KO5K
01-25-2012, 01:19 PM
Orton 1st 5 games before benching
71.7 Passer RTG, 91 COMPLETIONS, 155 ATTEMPTS, 59% Comp %, 979 Yards, 8 TDs, 7 INTs 1-4 record

Tebow last 5 games of season
63.5 Passer RTG, 49 Completions, 120 Attempts, 41% Comp %, 891 Yards, 3 TDs, 4 INTs 1-4 record

now i don't disagree with you about Orton at all. but i never brought the guy up in my previous post. but now, why is it that 1 guy can suck so badly that he is vilified and ultimately dumped while the other guy has fans jumping up outraged at the claim that fans and people in the organization aren't sold on the guy after he played worse?

I've seen a few people make the comparison between Orton's first 5 games and Tebow's last 5 games. I don't think it's a good one.

Firstly, you don't include Tebow's rushing stats. I think he had 4 rushing TDs over the last 5 games, pretty significant.

2 of Tebow's 5 games were against the Superbowl favorites.

Orton was a 7 year vet and had lost 13 of his last 18 games before the season began. He is what he is and his 1-4 record to start the season was just par for the course.

Tebow on the other hand was a three year project who's record before that 1-4 stretch was good. The win was in the playoffs against the Steelers which instantly makes the comparison dumb as far as I'm concerned.

If you don't see the differences between the two 1-4 stretches then, well, you're an idiot. And if you can't understand why Tebow is given leeway after his 1-4 stretch compared to Orton then, again, you're an idiot.

TheReverend
01-25-2012, 01:20 PM
I've seen a few people make the comparison between Orton's first 5 games and Tebow's last 5 games. I don't think it's a good one.

Firstly, you don't include Tebow's rushing stats. I think he had 4 rushing TDs over the last 5 games, pretty significant.

2 of Tebow's 5 games were against the Superbowl favorites.

Orton was a 7 year vet and had lost 13 of his last 18 games before the season began. He is what he is and his 1-4 record to start the season was just par for the course.

Tebow on the other hand was a three year project who's record before that 1-4 stretch was good. The win was in the playoffs against the Steelers which instantly makes the comparison dumb as far as I'm concerned.

If you don't see the differences between the two 1-4 stretches then, well, you're an idiot. And if you can't understand why Tebow is given leeway after his 1-4 stretch compared to Orton then, again, you're an idiot.

Dude... claiming Ty Warren would've been an upgrade over hypothetically having TWO Champ Bailey's (top 5 all time at his position and quite literally the best defensive player the Broncos franchise has ever had) proves that he's a ****ing idiot.

Ignore him and move on.

Beantown Bronco
01-25-2012, 01:20 PM
who would have been more valuable to this team this season?

Ty Warren fully healthy back at his former level of play or a clone of Champ Bailey lined up across from Champ.


whether or not you want to admit it, and since obviously you have never admitted to being wrong about anything on this board even after you get burned repeatedly. a good DL would have been more beneficial to the overall good of this team than would another awesome CB.

You can shut that filthy whore mouth now. Warren, and his zero probowl self, hasn't even been fully healthy and playing at a decent level since 2007.

BroncoMan4ever
01-25-2012, 01:21 PM
Sub 50% passer "rating" (not "rating" by the way, douche bag) : How much of that was dependent on being at the bottom of the league in drops by WRs, TEs and RBs? How much of that comes from the extremely high ratio of passes : low percentage shots down the field?

Answer: You're not worth my ****ing time



in other words

ANSWER: I HAVE NO WAY TO REFUTE ANYTHING!

**** off!

you lost this argument, now go try to prove someone else wrong.

it is truly sad when a Broncos fan is more annoying than Chargers, Chiefs, Raiders and Patriots trolls.

Ratboy
01-25-2012, 01:24 PM
Disagree.

We draft one in Round 2.

TheReverend
01-25-2012, 01:26 PM
in other words

ANSWER: I HAVE NO WAY TO REFUTE ANYTHING!

**** off!

you lost this argument, now go try to prove someone else wrong.

it is truly sad when a Broncos fan is more annoying than Chargers, Chiefs, Raiders and Patriots trolls.

I just refuted it you douche... We were one of the worst teams in the leagues in dropped passes... you even somewhat normalize those figures and Tim's already a few % over 50. If you put our drop rates at GB type figures, he's approaching 60%.

...and that's without taking into account our penchant for low percentage deep balls.

You're agonizingly stupid.

BroncoMan4ever
01-25-2012, 01:30 PM
I've seen a few people make the comparison between Orton's first 5 games and Tebow's last 5 games. I don't think it's a good one.

Firstly, you don't include Tebow's rushing stats. I think he had 4 rushing TDs over the last 5 games, pretty significant.

2 of Tebow's 5 games were against the Superbowl favorites.

Orton was a 7 year vet and had lost 13 of his last 18 games before the season began. He is what he is and his 1-4 record to start the season was just par for the course.

Tebow on the other hand was a three year project who's record before that 1-4 stretch was good. The win was in the playoffs against the Steelers which instantly makes the comparison dumb as far as I'm concerned.

If you don't see the differences between the two 1-4 stretches then, well, you're an idiot. And if you can't understand why Tebow is given leeway after his 1-4 stretch compared to Orton then, again, you're an idiot.

so because Tebow is young, and can run, and had pulled a few miracles out of his ass earlier in the season his ****ty play should be excused? also, before Tebow took over he had a losing record as a QB. granted it was 3 games but it was still a losing record and not the good record you claimed.

Tebow performed worse as a passer than almost every QB who started a game this year, that should have a ****load of competition brought in for his job. and any other QB in the ****ing league save for a select few would have competition brought in for their jobs the following season after a season long passing performance like Tebow and very few if any fans or media would be bitching about it.

BroncoMan4ever
01-25-2012, 01:37 PM
I just refuted it you douche... We were one of the worst teams in the leagues in dropped passes... you even somewhat normalize those figures and Tim's already a few % over 50. If you put our drop rates at GB type figures, he's approaching 60%.

...and that's without taking into account our penchant for low percentage deep balls.

You're agonizingly stupid.

Drops are part of the game. every team has receivers who drop passes. happens every single game. to base an arguments on ifs is ignorant.

ifs are a bull**** argument and are typically made by losers.

it's just like that kid who blames why he sucks on everyone else instead of just admitting he sucks.

but in the NFL and in life, you are what you are.

ifs are a way of passing blame to everyone else.

peacepipe
01-25-2012, 01:44 PM
And none of us have seen any of them justify those "doubts", have we?

I asked you to list your concerns and why, so we can discuss this in terms of football. If you're in capable of doing that, just say so.have you watched any game he has played? you would have to be a complete moron not to have noticed his flaws.

TonyR
01-25-2012, 01:44 PM
And none of us have seen any of them justify those "doubts", have we?

I asked you to list your concerns and why, so we can discuss this in terms of football. If you're in capable of doing that, just say so.

I think the "doubts" are justified by stats and video.

My list of concerns is really one item long: his passing ability. His footwork, throwing motion, accuracy, timing, touch, ability to read defenses, and tendency to fumble when he's hit, among other things, need major work. He's really still a raw project as far as NFL level passing ability goes.

Spider
01-25-2012, 01:53 PM
Drops are part of the game. every team has receivers who drop passes. happens every single game. to base an arguments on ifs is ignorant.

ifs are a bull**** argument and are typically made by losers.

it's just like that kid who blames why he sucks on everyone else instead of just admitting he sucks.

but in the NFL and in life, you are what you are.

ifs are a way of passing blame to everyone else.

LOL rep

Ray Finkle
01-25-2012, 01:53 PM
this thread.....

KO5K
01-25-2012, 01:59 PM
Drops are part of the game.

ifs are a way of passing blame to everyone else.

Sure.

But when you lead the league in drop %, it becomes a legitimate reason (one of many) for why Tebow's completion % was as low as it is.

KO5K
01-25-2012, 02:01 PM
so because Tebow is young, and can run, and had pulled a few miracles out of his ass earlier in the season his ****ty play should be excused?

More so than Orton, yes.

also, before Tebow took over he had a losing record as a QB. granted it was 3 games but it was still a losing record and not the good record you claimed.

Was referring to Tebow's 6-1 stretch, you know, before he went 1-4.

Idiot.

TheReverend
01-25-2012, 02:05 PM
I think the "doubts" are justified by stats and video.

My list of concerns is really one item long: his passing ability.

I've noticed you decided to completely ignore the "why" part of my request. Is it because you... gasp... don't know and are just parroting things you've heard elsewhere?!?!?

Regardless, I'll play along and let's go item by item.

His footwork,

This has you concerned about his long-term viability?

This is perhaps the most correctable part of a QBs viability. Reference the massive improvements in his footwork over his SIXTEEN GAME tenure thus far. In fact, ESPN did a special on his footwork improvements in December.

throwing motion,

See River's throwing motion.

See comments from Joe Montana, John Elway, etc about Tim's throwing motion.

"The Broncos arenít looking for major changes in QB Tim Tebow's delivery" -

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/post/16900224

accuracy, timing, touch,

Please attempt justify these (ESPECIALLY touch) with examples.

ability to read defenses,

Only 8 QBs in the NFL had an > or = TD:INT ratio... and that's not even mentioning half his INTs came in ONE game.

and tendency to fumble when he's hit,

I implore you to find ANY QB with a better ball retention:hits ratio.

TheReverend
01-25-2012, 02:06 PM
Drops are part of the game. every team has receivers who drop passes. happens every single game. to base an arguments on ifs is ignorant.

ifs are a bull**** argument and are typically made by losers.

it's just like that kid who blames why he sucks on everyone else instead of just admitting he sucks.

but in the NFL and in life, you are what you are.

ifs are a way of passing blame to everyone else.

...So in summation, your claim is that WR quality and catching the ball has no impact on QB stats?

BroncoMan4ever
01-25-2012, 02:42 PM
More so than Orton, yes.



Was referring to Tebow's 6-1 stretch, you know, before he went 1-4.

Idiot.

not discounting his stretch where he went 6-1. but all those blind to Tebow's deficiencies have a tendency to overlook the way his season ended.

TheReverend
01-25-2012, 02:44 PM
not discounting his stretch where he went 6-1. but all those blind to Tebow's deficiencies have a tendency to overlook the way his season ended.

7-1 you tool box.

BroncoMan4ever
01-25-2012, 02:44 PM
...So in summation, your claim is that WR quality and catching the ball has no impact on QB stats?

my summation is what happens happens and you are what you are, and to make excuses using the ifs argument does nothing.

just saying if his receivers held onto the ball his numbers would be better doesn't mean anything because his numbers are what they are. you can also say if Tim threw a more catchable ball his receivers might look better and in contrast his numbers would too.

it goes both ways. using arguments based on ifs is truly pointless.

TheReverend
01-25-2012, 02:47 PM
my summation is what happens happens and you are what you are, and to make excuses using the ifs argument does nothing.

just saying if his receivers held onto the ball his numbers would be better doesn't mean anything because his numbers are what they are. you can also say if Tim threw a more catchable ball his receivers might look better and in contrast his numbers would too.

it goes both ways. using arguments based on ifs is truly pointless.

It doesn't go both ways...

We jettisoned BOTH of last years starting receivers strictly to get more PT on younger players to evaluate them in live fire situations. That has a backlash on production... an extremely tangible one that we saw this year.

If you had a better than Pee Wee football education, you might be able to see this.

Butterscotch Stallion
01-25-2012, 02:48 PM
my summation is what happens happens and you are what you are, and to make excuses using the ifs argument does nothing.

just saying if his receivers held onto the ball his numbers would be better doesn't mean anything because his numbers are what they are. you can also say if Tim threw a more catchable ball his receivers might look better and in contrast his numbers would too.

it goes both ways. using arguments based on ifs is truly pointless.

I think you have a lot of bubble gum left.

Armchair Bronco
01-25-2012, 03:10 PM
Disagree.

We draft one in Round 2.

Thank you for following the rules outlined in the OP.

However, you are wrong. We won't draft a QB until round 3 or, more likely, later. I wouldn't be surprised if we draft a couple of read-option QB's in rounds 4 and 5. Maybe Fox will trade away a 3rd round pick to stockpile more picks in later rounds.

If Denver really does go "All In" for Tebow next year, there will be a lot of unconventional QB's and RB's that might have a real chance in Denver...but nowhere else.

Butterscotch Stallion
01-25-2012, 03:55 PM
Drops are part of the game. every team has receivers who drop passes. happens every single game. to base an arguments on ifs is ignorant.

ifs are a bull**** argument and are typically made by losers.

it's just like that kid who blames why he sucks on everyone else instead of just admitting he sucks.

but in the NFL and in life, you are what you are.

ifs are a way of passing blame to everyone else.

so....then he is a winner by your rules!


he is what he is....sweet! we agree.

DBroncos4life
01-25-2012, 03:58 PM
Thank you for following the rules outlined in the OP.

However, you are wrong. We won't draft a QB until round 3 or, more likely, later. I wouldn't be surprised if we draft a couple of read-option QB's in rounds 4 and 5. Maybe Fox will trade away a 3rd round pick to stockpile more picks in later rounds.

If Denver really does go "All In" for Tebow next year, there will be a lot of unconventional QB's and RB's that might have a real chance in Denver...but nowhere else.

Why ask the ****ing question if you are just going to say WRONG to everyone that says yes.

Armchair Bronco
01-25-2012, 04:00 PM
Why ask the ****ing question if you are just going to say WRONG to everyone that says yes.

You're not the boss of me!

And it's a PREDICTION! It's a guess about the future, so who cares?

DBroncos4life
01-25-2012, 04:02 PM
You're not the boss of me!

And it's a PREDICTION! It's a guess about the future, so who cares?

Clearly not the person that started the thread. :oyvey:

Armchair Bronco
01-25-2012, 04:06 PM
Clearly not the person that started the thread. :oyvey:

So you're saying that it's OK to make the OP, but then I have to "sit tight" and shut up? Or that I can only agree? Or that disagreeing is bad?

I'm kinda confused. What is it exactly that's bothering you? Please let me know so I can change my ways.

:facepalm:

errand
01-25-2012, 04:09 PM
because they are fans of our team?

So if we draft a QB in the first two rounds you're gonna hate him regardless if he's good and shows immense potential?

errand
01-25-2012, 04:16 PM
You're seriously a buffoon.

You act as if the entire fan base is sold 100% on Tebow...I guarantee you it's like 50-50...if that. You speak for a miniscule bunch of nuthuggers...those that will eventually quit posting here if Tebow is no longer a Bronco.

Trust me, I know why the nuthuggers like yourself, Butterscotch and the rest will hate him...cuz you view him as a threat to the hero you worship...

I want you to explain why the rest of the fan base would HATE the guy.....they might be angry at FO for not addressing bigger holes...but you said it would be a death warrant for the QB drafted due to fan base hating him.....explain that one

errand
01-25-2012, 04:28 PM
it is truly sad when a Broncos fan is more annoying than Chargers, Chiefs, Raiders and Patriots trolls.

...the little known Tebow effect

errand
01-25-2012, 04:33 PM
Sure.

But when you lead the league in drop %, it becomes a legitimate reason (one of many) for why Tebow's completion % was as low as it is.

Too bad they don't keep stats on bad throws....or in your case good thing huh?

errand
01-25-2012, 04:36 PM
...So in summation, your claim is that WR quality and catching the ball has no impact on QB stats?

So in summation, your claim is that QB quality and throwing the ball well has no impact on a WR's stats?

Archer81
01-25-2012, 04:55 PM
I believe in BPA. If that happend to be QB...well then that's how you should draft, but I dont think the QB class this year is a particularly deep or good one, and there should be a better player at 25 then a QB.

:Broncos:

Agamemnon
01-25-2012, 04:58 PM
So in summation, your claim is that QB quality and throwing the ball well has no impact on a WR's stats?

Hey look, it's errand making fallacious arguments over QB's again.

Miss Orton much?

DBroncos4life
01-25-2012, 05:00 PM
So you're saying that it's OK to make the OP, but then I have to "sit tight" and shut up? Or that I can only agree? Or that disagreeing is bad?

I'm kinda confused. What is it exactly that's bothering you? Please let me know so I can change my ways.

:facepalm:

You claimed it was a prediction thread then you go on to say that the people that say yes are wrong. So why ask the question?

KO5K
01-25-2012, 05:10 PM
Sure.

But when you lead the league in drop %, it becomes a legitimate reason (one of many) for why Tebow's completion % was as low as it is.

Too bad they don't keep stats on bad throws....or in your case good thing huh?

Idiot.

errand
01-25-2012, 05:27 PM
...So in summation, your claim is that WR quality and catching the ball has no impact on QB stats?

Tebow for the season had 271 attempts and 126 completions...with 21 drops

Add the two and divide by attempts and his % is only 54%...not 60%

BTW, he had 71 poor throws, 6 int's, and 22 that were defensed...not to mention the 1 batted down at line, and the 24 others that were thrown away

the 21 dropped passes were 14.5% of his total incompletions and 7.7 of his total attempts.

His poor throws accounted for 49% of his total incompletions and were 26.2% of his total attempts.....keep in mind his INT's aren't figured into his poor throw pct

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=24000&team=7

errand
01-25-2012, 05:29 PM
Idiot.

Turns out they do keep stats for bad passes...Tebow had 71 poor throws....which accounted for 49% of his incompleted passes add in his 6 ints , the 1 knocked down at LOS and 22 passes defensed, one could argue that 79% of his incompletions were HIS fault alone


Bigger IDIOT

errand
01-25-2012, 05:32 PM
Hey look, it's errand making fallacious arguments over QB's again.

Miss Orton much?

Broncos ranked 13th overall in passes dropped...with 28 total

Ratboy
01-25-2012, 05:44 PM
Thank you for following the rules outlined in the OP.

However, you are wrong. We won't draft a QB until round 3 or, more likely, later. I wouldn't be surprised if we draft a couple of read-option QB's in rounds 4 and 5. Maybe Fox will trade away a 3rd round pick to stockpile more picks in later rounds.

If Denver really does go "All In" for Tebow next year, there will be a lot of unconventional QB's and RB's that might have a real chance in Denver...but nowhere else.

Oh ok.

Thanks, Mr. Xanders.

Butterscotch Stallion
01-25-2012, 05:49 PM
Tebow for the season had 271 attempts and 126 completions...with 21 drops

Add the two and divide by attempts and his % is only 54%...not 60%

BTW, he had 71 poor throws, 6 int's, and 22 that were defensed...not to mention the 1 batted down at line, and the 24 others that were thrown away

the 21 dropped passes were 14.5% of his total incompletions and 7.7 of his total attempts.

His poor throws accounted for 49% of his total incompletions and were 26.2% of his total attempts.....keep in mind his INT's aren't figured into his poor throw pct

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=24000&team=7

Man orton really sucked.to not be as good as him....lol

MortonToMoses
01-25-2012, 05:50 PM
So you're saying that it's OK to make the OP, but then I have to "sit tight" and shut up? Or that I can only agree? Or that disagreeing is bad?

I'm kinda confused. What is it exactly that's bothering you? Please let me know so I can change my ways.

:facepalm:

^^ Damn! If they only had an emoticon for that

errand
01-25-2012, 05:53 PM
Man orton really sucked.to not be as good as him....lol

Orton has nothing to do with this....let's talk about that 79% of Tebow's incompletions are basically his own fault,while you and your clown posse keep bitching about the WR's dropping passes

DBroncos4life
01-25-2012, 05:55 PM
I'm going to ask you a yes or no question for discussion. The answer is no. So if you answer yes you are wrong. Thanks.

Agamemnon
01-25-2012, 05:59 PM
Broncos ranked 13th overall in passes dropped...with 28 total

How'd they rank on number of attempts?

Butterscotch Stallion
01-25-2012, 06:04 PM
Orton has nothing to do with this....let's talk about that 79% of Tebow's incompletions are basically his own fault,while you and your clown posse keep b****ing about the WR's dropping passes

Hes a raw passer with 16 game experience....what do you expect loser. you are like woodrow and Bernstien except you actually found nothing.

nice job dontbemessin.

did we land on the moon?

errand
01-25-2012, 06:05 PM
How'd they rank on number of attempts?

6.5% of their total attempts as a team

Agamemnon
01-25-2012, 06:08 PM
Turns out they do keep stats for bad passes...Tebow had 71 poor throws....which accounted for 49% of his incompleted passes add in his 6 ints , the 1 knocked down at LOS and 22 passes defensed, one could argue that 79% of his incompletions were HIS fault alone


Bigger IDIOT

They don't keep stats for bad passes. That's just one person's subjective opinion based on watching film. It may be accurate, but please don't act like it's scripture.

To illustrate my point, there were a fair number of times during the season that Tebow threw what could be called a bad throw, but it turned out the receiver ran the wrong route. And really what is a bad throw? Is a pass that is just few inches past the receiver's reach a bad throw? If it's deep and few inches off is that different than a short pass that is a few inches off? In all honesty, this bad throw crap that you are posting is highly spurious, but that's what you are all about isn't it?

Tebow had plenty of bad throws. Receivers had a lot of drops and poor route running. O-line wavered between mediocre and awful in pass protection any given week. Everyone needs to improve. Stop dumping on Tebow because your boy is gone.

errand
01-25-2012, 06:08 PM
Hes a raw passer with 16 game experience....what do you expect loser. you are like woodrow and Bernstien except you actually found nothing.

nice job dontbemessin.

did we land on the moon?

Nobody said he wasn't dumbass....

You and your moron brigade kept claiming that his completion pct was bad due to the WR's dropping passes....

I provided proof that their dropping passes was only 14.5% of the problem...damn near 80% was on him and him alone.

Dumbass

Agamemnon
01-25-2012, 06:09 PM
6.5% of their total attempts as a team

That didn't answer my question.

Cito Pelon
01-25-2012, 06:12 PM
i say it depends on what Tebow does before April minicamps and the draft.

if Tim does not hire a QB coach to help him work on his deficiencies as a passer and instead does charity things(which is great to do, but does not help the team though), book tours, golf outings, or that rumor about possibly doing Dancing With The Stars and does his typical workout of lifting weights and working on stamina without any work on his passing game then i would not be in the least surprised if Denver drafts someone like Nick Foles or Brock Osweiler in the 2nd round, or Brandon Wheeden in the 3rd.

Tim has earned the right to begin next Training Camp as the starter, but that doesn't mean he should just be given the job.

the New England game as well as the last few weeks of the season showed that the option game got figured out and Tim needs to learn to make it as a passer. the option game will remain at certain times in games, but it won't be the featured offense anymore. so i seriously doubt the team is going to look for a guy with a similar skill set to Tim. they are going to bring in pocket passers.

This could very well be exactly how the FO is thinking.

DBroncos4life
01-25-2012, 06:19 PM
I want to see Tebow working with Tom Martinez this offseason as well as Elway.

KO5K
01-25-2012, 06:20 PM
Turns out they do keep stats for bad passes...Tebow had 71 poor throws....which accounted for 49% of his incompleted passes add in his 6 ints , the 1 knocked down at LOS and 22 passes defensed, one could argue that 79% of his incompletions were HIS fault alone


Bigger IDIOT

Tom Brady had 107 poor throws....which accounted for 51% of his incompleted passes add his 12 ints, the 7 knocked down at LOS and 50 passes defensed, one could argue that 80.1% of his incompletions were HIS fault alone.

WOOPS!

Try throwing around some more misleading stats!

You ****ing idiot.

Agamemnon
01-25-2012, 06:21 PM
Tom Brady had 107 poor throws....which accounted for 51% of his incompleted passes add his 12 ints, the 7 knocked down at LOS and 50 passes defensed, one could argue that 80.1% of his incompletions were HIS fault alone.

WOOPS!

Try throwing around some more misleading stats!

You ****ing idiot.

Hilarious!

DBroncos4life
01-25-2012, 06:22 PM
Tom Brady had 107 poor throws....which accounted for 51% of his incompleted passes add his 12 ints, the 7 knocked down at LOS and 50 passes defensed, one could argue that 80.1% of his incompletions were HIS fault alone.

WOOPS!

Try throwing around some more misleading stats!

You ****ing idiot.

http://tucsoncitizen.com/usa-today-sports/2012/01/23/inside-slant-brady-calls-on-qb-guru/

Inside slant: Brady calls on QB guru
by Jim Corbett on Jan. 23, 2012, under USA Today Sports












Tom Brady began his Super Bowl XLVI redemption mission Sunday when the New England Patriots quarterback texted his longtime throwing coach after a 23-20 AFC Championship Game escape against the Baltimore Ravens.

A seething Brady figures to be a dangerous quarterback against the New York Giants in the Feb. 5 sequel of New Englandís 17-14 Super Bowl loss four years ago.

Disappointed with his two-interception, no-touchdown passing performance, Brady reached out to Tom Martinez, 66, his mechanics guru for the last 21 years, to get him back on track after posting a Tim Tebow-esque 57.5 passer rating.


Seems like Brady wasn't happy with his stats either.

OrangeSe7en
01-25-2012, 06:23 PM
It's almost as if KO5K just went to a slave market and purchased errand. Damn!

Butterscotch Stallion
01-25-2012, 06:24 PM
To be fair...errand is one of the dumbest people on the internet

errand
01-25-2012, 06:26 PM
They don't keep stats for bad passes. That's just one person's subjective opinion based on watching film. It may be accurate, but please don't act like it's scripture.

I doubt that it's just one guy's subjective opinion, but whatever....couldn't one also argue that same could said about whether or not a dropped pass was actually dropped and not a poor throw as well?

To illustrate my point, there were a fair number of times during the season that Tebow threw what could be called a bad throw, but it turned out the receiver ran the wrong route.

And a fair number of times he threw the ball to the wrong spot as well right? How many times did the WR run the wrong route, and how the **** would you know? If they keep stats on it provide a link like i did


And really what is a bad throw? Is a pass that is just few inches past the receiver's reach a bad throw? If it's deep and few inches off is that different than a short pass that is a few inches off? In all honesty, this bad throw crap that you are posting is highly spurious, but that's what you are all about isn't it?

I provided a link...don't kill the messenger because the message isn't what you wanna hear....i know you gotta hero to protect, which is why you're now no longer claiming it was the WR's dropping passes...it was them running the wrong routes now eh?

Tebow had plenty of bad throws.

Yes he did...by the Washington Post's count about 8 outta every 10 incompletions were bad throws

Receivers had a lot of drops and poor route running.

Not really when given their inexperience and being raw...but that excuse only applies to your hero, not to his team mates you trash....but even if you took a third of his poor throws and blamed it on wrong routes, he still had 46% of his incompletions due to his problems throwing the ball etc...

O-line wavered between mediocre and awful in pass protection any given week.

Oh here they go again...let's blame another part of the team for tim's problems...WR's really aren't the problem, so now we gotta blame the OL


Everyone needs to improve.

Including Tebow? I only ask because you and your clown posse think he's the entire team and that the Broncos win despite him being hindered by a roster void of talent

Stop dumping on Tebow because your boy is gone.

I don't dump on Tebow...I defend his team mates from the nuthuggers like yourself who blame everyone...anyone but him for his faults


In bold

Agamemnon
01-25-2012, 06:28 PM
In bold

You should really just give up while you are behind.

errand
01-25-2012, 06:31 PM
Tom Brady had 107 poor throws....which accounted for 51% of his incompleted passes add his 12 ints, the 7 knocked down at LOS and 50 passes defensed, one could argue that 80.1% of his incompletions were HIS fault alone.

WOOPS!

Try throwing around some more misleading stats!

You ****ing idiot.

They're not misleading idiot....

They were posted to directly refute you and your clown posse claiming that the reason Tebow had a poor completion pct, was due to WR's dropping the ball....

i provided proof that it wasn't their fault...dumbass

errand
01-25-2012, 06:33 PM
You should really just give up while you are behind.

this was the argument douchebag


Nuthuggers - "Tebow's completion pct is poor cuz his WR's dropped alot of his passes"

Errand - "Umm not, really...they only dropped 14.5% of his passes...79% of the incompleted ones were Tebow's fault"


That was the argument...you lost i won

Agamemnon
01-25-2012, 06:36 PM
They're not misleading idiot....

They were posted to directly refute you and your clown posse claiming that the reason Tebow had a poor completion pct, was due to WR's dropping the ball....

i provided proof that it wasn't their fault...dumbass

When we rank 32nd in pass attempts and 13th in drops (your number), they certainly aren't helping. If they were simply league average in terms of drops, you would expect us to have the fewest drops in the league.

Butterscotch Stallion
01-25-2012, 06:37 PM
Errandbemessin.....on behalf of all bronco fans......**** you.

Agamemnon
01-25-2012, 06:37 PM
this was the argument douchebag


Nuthuggers - "Tebow's completion pct is poor cuz his WR's dropped alot of his passes"

Errand - "Umm not, really...they only dropped 14.5% of his passes...79% of the incompleted ones were Tebow's fault"


That was the argument...you lost i won

Pretty sure that no one said that was the only reason, but you keep acting like a dip**** if you like. It's kind of your thing after all...

Butterscotch Stallion
01-25-2012, 06:38 PM
Pretty sure that no one said that was the only reason, but you keep acting like a dip**** if you like. It's kind of your thing after all...

He also said I said it when I never did.




raiders fans are idiots.

orinjkrush
01-25-2012, 06:49 PM
i think the world of tebow and hope he makes it.
given that, if there is a real good qb value in the second round...
if i were elway, i take it.

even though i think our draft position will be better next year.

Garcia Bronco
01-25-2012, 06:53 PM
What does a rookie draft pick give you? Another inexperienced QB on the roster. Has to be a Vet.

Cito Pelon
01-25-2012, 07:33 PM
I would've agreed up until yesterday, then as the reports of Weeden looking good came down and some news I heard about the Broncos taking a lot of interest - I just got this nasty feeling this FO is (insert adjective) enough to draft a QB at #25. I hope it won't happen, I don't think it'll happen, but I'm not convinced it won't happen.

I guess a lot depends on how Elway evaluates Tebow's progress when they start working together. And Weeden may not require the #25.

BroncoBeavis
01-25-2012, 09:12 PM
this was the argument douchebag


Nuthuggers - "Tebow's completion pct is poor cuz his WR's dropped alot of his passes"

Errand - "Umm not, really...they only dropped 14.5% of his passes...79% of the incompleted ones were Tebow's fault"


That was the argument...you lost i won

Dude- 14.5% is effing terrible.

BroncoBeavis
01-25-2012, 09:19 PM
Broncos ranked 13th overall in passes dropped...with 28 total

And as Already said, 13th in the league in drops while last in passing attempts is effing terrible. How does a hata not think this **** through before posting?

barryr
01-25-2012, 10:01 PM
Drafting Weeden would be pretty much a waste IMO. He's 28 and played in a shotgun offense with 3 WR's or more, so where is it written he can make the transition to a more conventional offense?

BroncoLover
01-26-2012, 12:43 AM
Prediction: Denver will NOT draft a QB in the first 2 rounds.

AGREE or DISAGREE?

what if andrew luck injures his left hand and which will take 2 yrs to recover ? and he is still in 1st round when denver is picking ? :flower:

Agamemnon
01-26-2012, 01:00 AM
Drafting Weeden would be pretty much a waste IMO. He's 28 and played in a shotgun offense with 3 WR's or more, so where is it written he can make the transition to a more conventional offense?

Drafting any QB would likely be a waste, but yeah a 28 year old spread QB is just beyond retarded based on what they seem to want to do offensively.

Archer81
01-26-2012, 01:49 AM
Dude- 14.5% is effing terrible.


And they always seemed to come at the wrong damned time.

Tebow does need to improve his accuracy...but that's true for any young QB. Our WR's and TE's need to catch the ball when it hits them in the hands.

:Broncos:

Rother8
01-26-2012, 05:44 AM
Prediction: I will **** toda...

Ahhh, now that's nice.
Been a while since Ive had a deuce come out this beautifully

Edit: CLEAN BREAK!

TheReverend
01-26-2012, 08:36 AM
You act as if the entire fan base is sold 100% on Tebow...I guarantee you it's like 50-50...if that. You speak for a miniscule bunch of nuthuggers...those that will eventually quit posting here if Tebow is no longer a Bronco.

Trust me, I know why the nuthuggers like yourself, Butterscotch and the rest will hate him...cuz you view him as a threat to the hero you worship...

I want you to explain why the rest of the fan base would HATE the guy.....they might be angry at FO for not addressing bigger holes...but you said it would be a death warrant for the QB drafted due to fan base hating him.....explain that one

50-50?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

TheReverend
01-26-2012, 08:37 AM
So in summation, your claim is that QB quality and throwing the ball well has no impact on a WR's stats?

It absolutely does. But "DROP RATE" is in terms of catchable balls dropped... hence the word "drop" (wouldn't think I'd have to explain this to you, but go figure).

Spider
01-26-2012, 08:38 AM
50-50?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

you really think this board is a reflection of the people of Colorado ?

TheReverend
01-26-2012, 08:39 AM
Tom Brady had 107 poor throws....which accounted for 51% of his incompleted passes add his 12 ints, the 7 knocked down at LOS and 50 passes defensed, one could argue that 80.1% of his incompletions were HIS fault alone.

WOOPS!

Try throwing around some more misleading stats!

You ****ing idiot.

One of the biggest servings of "owned" I've ever seen on this site.

(outside of from me :) )

DBroncos4life
01-26-2012, 08:40 AM
you really think this board is a reflection of the people of Colorado ?

You really think the fan base is limited to only Colorado?

Spider
01-26-2012, 08:42 AM
You really think the fan base is limited to only Colorado?

I know it isnt , but peoples opinion outside of Colorado doesnt really matter to much ..........

TheReverend
01-26-2012, 08:43 AM
you really think this board is a reflection of the people of Colorado ?

Nope. I think this board is a more dramatic anti-Tebow reflection.

I'll bet ya Pat Bowlen, Joe Ellis, Patrick Smyth, and everyone else who markets HIM as the face of the franchise even when Orton was the starter and everyone who sees stats on season and reg ticket sales, and network ratings demand would all agree, wouldn't they?

Spider
01-26-2012, 08:46 AM
Nope. I think this board is a more dramatic anti-Tebow reflection.

I'll bet ya Pat Bowlen, Joe Ellis, Patrick Smyth, and everyone else who markets HIM as the face of the franchise even when Orton was the starter and everyone who sees stats on season and reg ticket sales, and network ratings demand would all agree, wouldn't they?
Nope dont agree at all , if tebow was cut today , next season still be sold out , Jersey still sell, just gator fans stop buying , and you would still be a fan of this team ..... Nothing changes

TheReverend
01-26-2012, 08:50 AM
Nope dont agree at all , if tebow was cut today , next season still be sold out , Jersey still sell, just gator fans stop buying , and you would still be a fan of this team ..... Nothing changes

Nice to see you don't understand ANY facet of the NFL...

Yes, I would still be a fan of this team.

...but you'd go back to seeing big chunks of empty seats as you did during the Orton era.

Jersey sales barely benefit the team anyway (even though you're definitely wrong)

Ratings demand wouldn't be NEARLY as high (which hits Broncos revenue hard)

Probably half the prime-time games, IF that

Etc.

So whine about the "Gator fans" all you want. They're lining Bowlen's pockets with gold and our best chance at seeing him pay for a better contender again.

KO5K
01-26-2012, 08:51 AM
Nope dont agree at all , if tebow was cut today , next season still be sold out , Jersey still sell, just gator fans stop buying , and you would still be a fan of this team ..... Nothing changes

It would depend on how the team was doing.

Go back to the end of Orton's reign last year, the stadium announcer didn't even give attendance figures because it was so bad. Sure, the seats were sold but there was no on sitting in them buying stuff on game day.

Put it this way, I think more people would watch Tebow lose than they would watch another QB lose.

I think it's stupid to basically deny that Tebow isn't having a positive effect on Bowlen's finances.

Spider
01-26-2012, 08:53 AM
Nice to see you don't understand ANY facet of the NFL...

Yes, I would still be a fan of this team.

...but you'd go back to seeing big chunks of empty seats as you did during the Orton era.

Jersey sales barely benefit the team anyway (even though you're definitely wrong)

Ratings demand wouldn't be NEARLY as high (which hits Broncos revenue hard)

Probably half the prime-time games, IF that

Etc.

So whine about the "Gator fans" all you want. They're lining Bowlen's pockets with gold and our best chance at seeing him pay for a better contender again.
LOL they dont care about empty seats as much as unsold tickets ....but Broncos are #2 behind greenbay in sell outs , yeah we did that even before tebow
And Jersey sales for all teams is part of the NFL revenue sharing , so it really doesnt matter , so no nothing Changes ...

KO5K
01-26-2012, 08:53 AM
Ratings demand wouldn't be NEARLY as high (which hits Broncos revenue hard)

Probably half the prime-time games, IF that

Etc.

A tweet from the head of Broncos PR this week:

Jim Saccomano
@broncos_sacco Jim Saccomano

...More Broncos TV--full season average, w/playoffs, was huge 33 rating, 62 share. Ratings increase over 2010 was over 39 per cent. #fb

...Broncos TV ratings indicative of enormous positive changes in organization from 14 months ago. TV numbers never lie. #fb

Right now, with Tebow, I think we're a lock for 5 primetime games.

Spider
01-26-2012, 08:54 AM
It would depend on how the team was doing.

Go back to the end of Orton's reign last year, the stadium announcer didn't even give attendance figures because it was so bad. Sure, the seats were sold but there was no on sitting in them buying stuff on game day.

Put it this way, I think more people would watch Tebow lose than they would watch another QB lose.

I think it's stupid to basically deny that Tebow isn't having a positive effect on Bowlen's finances.

:rofl: ...... yeah ok

Spider
01-26-2012, 08:57 AM
Hilarious! ..... I like Tebow , but you guys are grasping here

alkemical
01-26-2012, 09:01 AM
In terms of "business", they aren't Spider...

KO5K
01-26-2012, 09:02 AM
Hilarious! ..... I like Tebow , but you guys are grasping here

Well then answer this, yes or no.

Has Tebow had a positive impact on Bowlen's finances?

Butterscotch Stallion
01-26-2012, 09:02 AM
Hilarious! ..... I like Tebow , but you guys are grasping here

You all are. the point was fans arw more than 50% in favor of Tebow right now. to deny this is silly. this sight is way more anti tebow but thats because guys like errand arr actually puppet acounts to.guys like dontbemessin.

colorado loves Tebow because he is a winner. that state loves a winner more than most.

Spider
01-26-2012, 09:02 AM
Now if Bowlen did like Jerry Jones and licensed his own stuff , you 2 love struck yahoos would have a point

Spider
01-26-2012, 09:04 AM
In terms of "business", they aren't Spider...

naw , Unless Bowlen licenses his own stuff , it is business as usual with or without Tebow ........every piece of Bronco gear you buy is licensed by the NFL ....Sorry

Spider
01-26-2012, 09:06 AM
You all are. the point was fans arw more than 50% in favor of Tebow right now. to deny this is silly. this sight is way more anti tebow but thats because guys like errand arr actually puppet acounts to.guys like dontbemessin.

colorado loves Tebow because he is a winner. that state loves a winner more than most.

you couldnt be more wrong about Messin and Errand .... and The Tebow love isnt as strong as you think , if tebow falls flat on his ass this year or preforms like he did last year , the love affair is over ...........

alkemical
01-26-2012, 09:10 AM
naw , Unless Bowlen licenses his own stuff , it is business as usual with or without Tebow ........every piece of Bronco gear you buy is licensed by the NFL ....Sorry

You do realize that concessions, parking, local media contracts, advertising, etc etc - are all driven based upon the marketability of the players, right?

Spider
01-26-2012, 09:13 AM
Well then answer this, yes or no.

Has Tebow had a positive impact on Bowlen's finances?

No he hasnt ........ Sorry Tebow has as much effect as Sanchez of the Jets ..Or Brady of the Patriots , the NFL revenue sharing saw to that , Same rules apply in the post season as well ...... 60-40 split , home team gets 60% of sales visitors get 40% , then if the team doesnt own the stadium , the owners of the stadium get a cut ....harsh huh ? ...... But it benefited small market teams made the NFL teams more competitive

Spider
01-26-2012, 09:16 AM
You do realize that concessions, parking, local media contracts, advertising, etc etc - are all driven based upon the marketability of the players, right?

and you do understand that Invesco gets a chunck of that right ? and the rest goes into revenue sharing .... and the Parking lot and the stadium was full Pre Tebow , unless you are saying they expanded the Parking lot because of Tebow ....... Marketability is the team ...

alkemical
01-26-2012, 09:20 AM
and you do understand that Invesco gets a chunck of that right ? and the rest goes into revenue sharing .... and the Parking lot and the stadium was full Pre Tebow , unless you are saying they expanded the Parking lot because of Tebow ....... Marketability is the team ...

Again, you're incorrect - if the team sucks, and there's no marquee players - there market becomes smaller.

Srlsy Spider - you're just wrong on the business side of it. No worries man.

Spider
01-26-2012, 09:25 AM
Again, you're incorrect - if the team sucks, and there's no marquee players - there market becomes smaller.

Srlsy Spider - you're just wrong on the business side of it. No worries man.

;D if you can explain why we are #2 behind Greenbay in sellouts pre tebow ? ....

KO5K
01-26-2012, 09:28 AM
and the Parking lot and the stadium was full Pre Tebow

Except it wasn't.

Spider
01-26-2012, 09:29 AM
Except it wasn't.

oh really ....... you sure about that ?

Butterscotch Stallion
01-26-2012, 09:40 AM
Except it wasn't.

When I was there it wasnt.

Spider
01-26-2012, 09:40 AM
When I was there it wasnt.

what game ? I have been there alot ..... even seen it full when Griese was on the outs .....

TheReverend
01-26-2012, 09:52 AM
;D if you can explain why we are #2 behind Greenbay in sellouts pre tebow ? ....

Well for one, that's not even true...

Washington is #1 on the sellout streak followed by Pittsburgh.

Two, that doesn't apply much to the CURRENT market... all it shows is that Denver fans have been supportive for a LONG time and considering Elway, followed by Shanahans record setting era of points and wins, it's not hard to see why.

Spider
01-26-2012, 09:57 AM
Well for one, that's not even true...

Washington is #1 on the sellout streak followed by Pittsburgh.

Two, that doesn't apply much to the CURRENT market... all it shows is that Denver fans have been supportive for a LONG time and considering Elway, followed by Shanahans record setting era of points and wins, it's not hard to see why.

Sorry redskins ......
the Broncos have played 292 consecutive home games, including playoffs, before sellout crowds, a streak that has lasted 36 years, the past five at Invesco Field at Mile High. Only the Washington Redskins have a longer sellout streak, at 320 games.

Read more: Broncos fans keep sellout streak strong 36 years - and counting - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_4287756#ixzz1kaI40Vct
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

Spider
01-26-2012, 09:58 AM
Well for one, that's not even true...

Washington is #1 on the sellout streak followed by Pittsburgh.

Two, that doesn't apply much to the CURRENT market... all it shows is that Denver fans have been supportive for a LONG time and considering Elway, followed by Shanahans record setting era of points and wins, it's not hard to see why.

So I was wrong about the #1 team , you are wrong about the Steelers , Now you say it is because of Elway ? well Elway didnt play 36 years ..... Just saying

KO5K
01-26-2012, 09:59 AM
oh really ....... you sure about that ?

Yes....

Towards the end of last year, the no shows were creeping towards 10,000.

Spider
01-26-2012, 10:01 AM
So now you rev want me to believe that if Tebow is gone , that 36 year history of sell outs is gone ? people will give up on the Broncos ? Hilarious!

Spider
01-26-2012, 10:02 AM
Yes....

Towards the end of last year, the no shows were creeping towards 10,000.

got a link ?

TheReverend
01-26-2012, 10:05 AM
So I was wrong about the #1 team , you are wrong about the Steelers ,

"Consecutive sellouts: 299 | Season-ticket waiting list: More than six years

No team is as woven into the fabric of a city. The organization's stability has a lot to do with it, as generations of Steelers fans relate to the tradition of ownership (Rooneys), smashmouth football, quality head coaches (league-low three since 1969) and success (five Super Bowl titles). The season-ticket waiting list is extremely long and the consecutive sellout streak of 299 games, including playoffs, is unbelievable.
-- James Walker "

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/preview08/columns/story?id=3530077

^ That's only behind Washington.

Now you say it is because of Elway ? well Elway didnt play 36 years ..... Just saying

No... that's not what I said... practice your "Dick and Jane - I can read" books. Spoiler alert: Spot is gonna run!

Butterscotch Stallion
01-26-2012, 10:05 AM
what game ? I have been there alot ..... even seen it full when Griese was on the outs .....

RAms game.

TheReverend
01-26-2012, 10:05 AM
So now you rev want me to believe that if Tebow is gone , that 36 year history of sell outs is gone ? people will give up on the Broncos ? Hilarious!

Never once did I say anything even remotely close to that.

You've been beaten so mercilessly in this conversation you're trying to completely change it into something else.

Not gonna work retard.

Spider
01-26-2012, 10:08 AM
"Consecutive sellouts: 299 | Season-ticket waiting list: More than six years

No team is as woven into the fabric of a city. The organization's stability has a lot to do with it, as generations of Steelers fans relate to the tradition of ownership (Rooneys), smashmouth football, quality head coaches (league-low three since 1969) and success (five Super Bowl titles). The season-ticket waiting list is extremely long and the consecutive sellout streak of 299 games, including playoffs, is unbelievable.
-- James Walker "

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/preview08/columns/story?id=3530077

^ That's only behind Washington. conflicting data .... I will go with mine



No... that's not what I said... practice your "Dick and Jane - I can read" books. Spoiler alert: Spot is gonna run!
Phones wont wait huh ? .......

Beantown Bronco
01-26-2012, 10:09 AM
Somebody's sellout numbers are wrong.

Spider's link is from 2006 and it says 292 for us.

Rev's is from 2008 and it says 293 for us.

Spider
01-26-2012, 10:09 AM
Never once did I say anything even remotely close to that.

You've been beaten so mercilessly in this conversation you're trying to completely change it into something else.

Not gonna work retard.
LOL I have been ? you have yet to prove Tebow is putting more money in Bowlens pocket .Thats what you started out with , I proved post after post about revenue sharing and Bronco fan loyalty ........you are dismissed

Spider
01-26-2012, 10:11 AM
Somebody's sellout numbers are wrong.

Spider's link is from 2006 and it says 292 for us.

Rev's is from 2008 and it says 293 for us.
I will go with the Denver post ...... Local paper

KO5K
01-26-2012, 10:12 AM
got a link ?

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=95344

Looking through that thread, didn't realise TGN was an Orton fan and Rohirrim, haha. What a bunch of idiots.

Tweet from Lindsay Jones later from last year, that was when they actually announced the number of no shows:

Announced attendance: 66,231. There were 7,924 no shows at Invesco Field.

Spider
01-26-2012, 10:12 AM
RAms game.

huh ........

TheReverend
01-26-2012, 10:12 AM
LOL I have been ? you have yet to prove Tebow is putting more money in Bowlens pocket .Thats what you started out with , I proved post after post about revenue sharing and Bronco fan loyalty ........you are dismissed

...there's NOTHING debatable about that. Do you have any idea where team revenue comes from...?

Spider
01-26-2012, 10:13 AM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=95344

Looking through that thread, didn't realise TGN was an Orton fan.

Tweet from Lindsay Jones later on last year, that was when they actually announced the number of no shows:

Thats not 10 thousand . how many were visitors ?

TheReverend
01-26-2012, 10:13 AM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=95344

Looking through that thread, didn't realise TGN was an Orton fan.

Tweet from Lindsay Jones later from last year, that was when they actually announced the number of no shows:

Not only that, seems there were some mass exoduses. Initial post:

No official number released for the first time in Invesco Field history, but there are a lot of estimates. Before the game it was estimated there would be 10-15k no shows. The start of the game looked to be about that... But they just said that by halftime several thousand fans left and then another mass left before the end of the 3rd Quarter.

By the end of the 3rd Quarter the stadium was less than half full with huge sections being empty, as reported by Vic Lambardi.

Sad, could still hear the boos. Why stay just to boo?

TonyR
01-26-2012, 10:14 AM
I've noticed...

I'm not so much concerned with each specific aspect as I am with all of the issues collectively. He needs improvement in all of those areas. He didn't win the job coming out of camp for a reason. The coaching staff designed an ultra conservative game plan, and stuck with it for the most part, for a reason. His completion percentage was the worst in the league for a reason. Are there mitigating factors in play? Of course there are. There always are. But they can't explain it all away.

Most good to great NFL QB's are pretty good right out of the chute. Sure they have struggles and need to improve in certain areas but you can see the ability and the flashes of brilliance. When it comes to passing I've seen a lot more to be concerned about with Tebow's passing than I have flashes of brilliance.

Then there's the fact that the NFL isn't really a training ground for NFL QB's. Most of these guys come ready to play and don't have a laundry list of flaws that need to be ironed out. Those that do typically don't make it. And you don't necessarily see a quantum leap in ability from NFL QB's. Sure they get better, mostly due to experience and comfort level and confidence. How many guys completely overhaul their mechanics? And look at recent guys like Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco and Mark Sanchez. Those guys aren't really all that different than they were their rookie years, are they?

Tebow started 13 games this year. Do you know in how many of those games he completed > 50% of his passes? Two. Two out of 13. I don't know how anyone can watch the entirety of most of his starts, particularly the Buffalo and 2nd KC game (if not large parts of other games as well), and not come away with some major questions about his passing. If you don't then I think you're being something of a Pollyanna.

Tebow did a superlative job this year under the circumstances. He's got special abilities, he's a great kid, and he's a warrior. He had a profound, positive impact on the running game. His intangibles are off the charts and it's impossible not to admire the guy and root for him. Unfortunately none of this even begins to guarantee that he's got what it takes to get his passing ability up to the level necessary to be a "successful" NFL QB.

TheReverend
01-26-2012, 10:14 AM
Thats not 10 thousand . how many were visitors ?

...****ing troll.

Spider
01-26-2012, 10:14 AM
...there's NOTHING debatable about that. Do you have any idea where team revenue comes from...?

LOL really .... thats it ? .So why dont you quit beating around the Bush and show how Tebow has put more money in Bowlens pocket ..... you already got beat down on the loyalty part , now try the revenue part

KO5K
01-26-2012, 10:15 AM
Thats not 10 thousand . how many were visitors ?

Read the link, you idiot.

No official number released for the first time in Invesco Field history, but there are a lot of estimates. Before the game it was estimated there would be 10-15k no shows. The start of the game looked to be about that... But they just said that by halftime several thousand fans left and then another mass left before the end of the 3rd Quarter.

By the end of the 3rd Quarter the stadium was less than half full with huge sections being empty, as reported by Vic Lambardi.

The stadium didn't even announce attendance figures because it was so embarrassingly bad.

Spider
01-26-2012, 10:15 AM
...****ing troll.

Now I see how Tebow has increased money in Bowlens pockets .......Hilarious!

KO5K
01-26-2012, 10:16 AM
LOL really .... thats it ? .So why dont you quit beating around the Bush and show how Tebow has put more money in Bowlens pocket ..... you already got beat down on the loyalty part , now try the revenue part

I can understand people being skeptical about Tebow as a QB.

But this is just ridiculous.

Spider
01-26-2012, 10:16 AM
Read the link, you idiot.



The stadium didn't even announce attendance figures because it was so embarrassingly bad.

Kinda hard to do and stay here on a smart phone genius ........:rofl:

Spider
01-26-2012, 10:16 AM
I can understand people being skeptical about Tebow as a QB.

But this is just ridiculous.

Prove me wrong idiot

Spider
01-26-2012, 10:20 AM
google is getting worked over time LOL ..... My position is , the sales will be the same , the Sell outs , etc without Tebow , the love struck Yahoos think it will be devastating if we lost tebow

TheReverend
01-26-2012, 10:26 AM
I'm not so much concerned with each specific aspect as I am with all of the issues collectively. He needs improvement in all of those areas. He didn't win the job coming out of camp for a reason. The coaching staff designed an ultra conservative game plan, and stuck with it for the most part, for a reason. His completion percentage was the worst in the league for a reason. Are there mitigating factors in play? Of course there are. There always are. But they can't explain it all away.

Most good to great NFL QB's are pretty good right out of the chute. Sure they have struggles and need to improve in certain areas but you can see the ability and the flashes of brilliance. When it comes to passing I've seen a lot more to be concerned about with Tebow's passing than I have flashes of brilliance.

Then there's the fact that the NFL isn't really a training ground for NFL QB's. Most of these guys come ready to play and don't have a laundry list of flaws that need to be ironed out. Those that do typically don't make it. And you don't necessarily see a quantum leap in ability from NFL QB's. Sure they get better, mostly due to experience and comfort level and confidence. How many guys completely overhaul their mechanics? And look at recent guys like Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco and Mark Sanchez. Those guys aren't really all that different than they were their rookie years, are they?

Tebow started 13 games this year. Do you know in how many of those games he completed > 50% of his passes? Two. Two out of 13. I don't know how anyone can watch the entirety of most of his starts, particularly the Buffalo and 2nd KC game (if not large parts of other games as well), and not come away with some major questions about his passing. If you don't then I think you're being something of a Pollyanna.

Tebow did a superlative job this year under the circumstances. He's got special abilities, he's a great kid, and he's a warrior. He had a profound, positive impact on the running game. His intangibles are off the charts and it's impossible not to admire the guy and root for him. Unfortunately none of this even begins to guarantee that he's got what it takes to get his passing ability up to the level necessary to be a "successful" NFL QB.

Once again, you're hiding from an actual football discussion about this.

I went through and addressed your "concerns" point by point and reiterated some questions back to you which you have yet to address... at all.

But keep whining about completion %. When push came to shove, the game was placed squarely on his shoulders every time and whether it was setting an NFL record come back in a place we'd never won, or driving 95 yards against the Jets or out-gunning Ponder, he did it.

And you continue to ignore the drops issue in regard to his completion %, so how about this... even WITH the drops, he had a higher YPC than Rogers, Brady, Brees, Romo, Stafford, Manning, and, well... EVERYONE else in the league except for Schaub pre-injury. What does that tell you about the play-calling esp in conjunction with the drops?

...or can you not figure that out either?

Spider
01-26-2012, 10:27 AM
I can understand people being skeptical about Tebow as a QB.
.

:rofl: see this is where you are wrong again , I like tebow said many of time he should be the starter , but lets get real here , put your man crush glasses down for a minute and look ...... the team will be the same ,sales , sellouts etc as it would be without Tebow , 36 years of history backs me up ......

TheReverend
01-26-2012, 10:28 AM
LOL really .... thats it ? .So why dont you quit beating around the Bush and show how Tebow has put more money in Bowlens pocket ..... you already got beat down on the loyalty part , now try the revenue part

http://ht.cdn.turner.com/si/images/2011/07/25/New_2011_Deal_Summary_7.pdf

Try and educate yourself instead of being embarrassing stupid for once.

TheReverend
01-26-2012, 10:30 AM
:rofl: see this is where you are wrong again , I like tebow said many of time he should be the starter , but lets get real here , put your man crush glasses down for a minute and look ...... the team will be the same ,sales , sellouts etc as it would be without Tebow , 36 years of history backs me up ......

No it doesn't...

"Tebow Time! Steelers-Broncos Gives CBS Highest-Rated Wild Card Game in 24 Years"

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2012/01/09/tebow-time-steelers-broncos-gives-cbs-its-highest-rated-wild-card-game-in-24-years/115795/

"TV Ratings Saturday: CBS "Wins" In a Patriots Blowout, Record Still Possible Despite Lack of Tebowliciousness"

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2012/01/15/tv-ratings-saturday-cbs-wins-in-a-patriots-blowout-record-still-possible-despite-lack-of-tebowliciousness/116533/

Spider
01-26-2012, 10:31 AM
http://ht.cdn.turner.com/si/images/2011/07/25/New_2011_Deal_Summary_7.pdf

Try and educate yourself instead of being embarrassing stupid for once.

LOL took you that long to google ? and that still doesnt cover the sales of NFL licensed products or how Tebow will put more money in bowlens pocket ..... I suggest you look up the Jersey sales revenue

Spider
01-26-2012, 10:32 AM
No it doesn't...

"Tebow Time! Steelers-Broncos Gives CBS Highest-Rated Wild Card Game in 24 Years"

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2012/01/09/tebow-time-steelers-broncos-gives-cbs-its-highest-rated-wild-card-game-in-24-years/115795/

"TV Ratings Saturday: CBS "Wins" In a Patriots Blowout, Record Still Possible Despite Lack of Tebowliciousness"

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2012/01/15/tv-ratings-saturday-cbs-wins-in-a-patriots-blowout-record-still-possible-despite-lack-of-tebowliciousness/116533/
And it would have been the same if we had any other QB in there ..... and had a similar season

TheReverend
01-26-2012, 10:33 AM
LOL took you that long to google ? and that still doesnt cover the sales of NFL licensed products or how Tebow will put more money in bowlens pocket ..... I suggest you look up the Jersey sales revenue

I was responding to Tony you retard. And actually yes, that very specifically covers the sales of NFL licensed products and how Tebow and his increased ratings puts more money in Bowlen's pocket...

TheReverend
01-26-2012, 10:33 AM
And it would have been the same if we had any other QB in there ..... and had a similar season

If it would've been the same why was it the highest rated game in twenty four ****ing years and the highest rated television event of the year only behind the Superbowl?

Spider
01-26-2012, 10:34 AM
I was responding to Tony you retard. And actually yes, that very specifically covers the sales of NFL licensed products and how Tebow and his increased ratings puts more money in Bowlen's pocket...

no thats assuming a 5 % growth rate .... and Tebow doesnt fall into the Proven player ( min of 3 Years) slot

Spider
01-26-2012, 10:35 AM
If it would've been the same why was it the highest rated game in twenty four ****ing years and the highest rated television event of the year only behind the Superbowl?

4 years ...... some history there ..And yes it would have ....

TheReverend
01-26-2012, 10:36 AM
no thats assuming a 5 % growth rate .... and Tebow doesnt fall into the Proven player ( min of 3 Years) slot

Look at you trying to make up numbers like you even know math!

5% growth rate, huh? Then why was it a 40% increase over last year?

Spoiler: Because you're ****ing retarded.

TheReverend
01-26-2012, 10:37 AM
4 years ...... some history there ..And yes it would have ....

OMG... it says TWENTY FOUR. Just how illiterate are you?

Spider
01-26-2012, 10:40 AM
Look at you trying to make up numbers like you even know math!

5% growth rate, huh? Then why was it a 40% increase over last year?

Spoiler: Because you're ****ing retarded.

LOL you calling me a retard , you are talking out of your ass

Spider
01-26-2012, 10:43 AM
OMG... it says TWENTY FOUR. Just how illiterate are you?

nice edit LMAO

TheReverend
01-26-2012, 10:43 AM
LOL you calling me a retard , you are talking out of your ass

No, I'm supporting my statements with actual facts and links. You're trying to hide from your own inherent stupidity.

Step up or gtfo you failure-at-life.

Spider
01-26-2012, 10:44 AM
face it rev you got nothing ...... shooting blanks junior

TheReverend
01-26-2012, 10:44 AM
nice edit LMAO

There was no edit... it says the same thing in your quote.

You just can't read...

Spider
01-26-2012, 10:46 AM
No, I'm supporting my statements with actual facts and links. You're trying to hide from your own inherent stupidity.

Step up or gtfo you failure-at-life.

LMAO the link your provided from ESPN is dead wrong kiddo , all you got is 1 playoff game .... thats it ...

Spider
01-26-2012, 10:46 AM
There was no edit... it says the same thing in your quote.

You just can't read...

you got that edit in fast , congrats , while I was quoting you it said 4 ....

TheReverend
01-26-2012, 10:47 AM
you got that edit in fast , congrats , while I was quoting you it said 4 ....

If that were true it would say 4 you retard...

LMAO the link your provided from ESPN is dead wrong kiddo , all you got is 1 playoff game .... thats it ...

http://www.thelifestream.net/forums/images/smilies/TripleFacePalm.jpg

Spider
01-26-2012, 10:47 AM
http://www.thelifestream.net/forums/images/smilies/TripleFacePalm.jpg

oh you dont need ot face palm yourself ...... we all make mistakes .....

Spider
01-26-2012, 10:54 AM
Can someone translate stupid for me ? You're the dumbest ****ing person I've ever even heard of. No wonder your left your sorry ass.
LMAo stupid as is so pissed off cause he couldnt prove his point

Spider
01-26-2012, 10:56 AM
Iam going to start calling the Rev Jhns junior

TonyR
01-26-2012, 11:03 AM
And you continue to ignore...

I think it's funny that you think I'm ignoring more than you're ignoring. The Buffalo and KC games happened. All the mediocre to poor performances over large parts of the games we won happened. All of those incompletions happened, whether you think his footwork and throwing motion has improved or not. I'm well aware that Tebow did some great things late in some games and was instrumental to the wins. But those great moments don't blind me to the reality of his struggles with throwing the football.

Specific to the drop issue you bring up, even if you normalize for the drops (to league average drop rate or whatever) his completion percentage is still going to be at or near worst in the league.

I fully realize that there's a lot of ignornace, hyperbole, parroting, and pile on in the media when it comes to Tebow. He doesn't get a fair shake with a lot of people. But on the complete opposite end of the spectrum there seems to be a lot of people trying to overcompensate for this by ignoring his overall body of work throwing the football. I trust there's a reason Orton beat him out for a starting job. I trust there's a reason they ran the type of offense they did. And I trust what I saw watching the games. I'm not blinded by the heroics, and I'm not blinded by my admiration for the guy.

None of this means he can't make the necessary improvements and erase my doubts and concerns next season. I'd like nothing more. I think he'll probably get that chance. I'm just not optimistic.

TheReverend
01-26-2012, 11:10 AM
I think it's funny that you think I'm ignoring more than you're ignoring. The Buffalo and KC games happened. All the mediocre to poor performances over large parts of the games we won happened. All of those incompletions happened, whether you think his footwork and throwing motion has improved or not. I'm well aware that Tebow did some great things late in some games and was instrumental to the wins. But those great moments don't blind me to the reality of his struggles with throwing the football.

Specific to the drop issue you bring up, even if you normalize for the drops (to league average drop rate or whatever) his completion percentage is still going to be at or near worst in the league.

I fully realize that there's a lot of ignornace, hyperbole, parroting, and pile on in the media when it comes to Tebow. He doesn't get a fair shake with a lot of people. But on the complete opposite end of the spectrum there seems to be a lot of people trying to overcompensate for this by ignoring his overall body of work throwing the football. I trust there's a reason Orton beat him out for a starting job. I trust there's a reason they ran the type of offense they did. And I trust what I saw watching the games. I'm not blinded by the heroics, and I'm not blinded by my admiration for the guy.

None of this means he can't make the necessary improvements and erase my doubts and concerns next season. I'd like nothing more. I think he'll probably get that chance. I'm just not optimistic.

Do you not realize even now that all you're doing is deflecting from giving and why you feel he won't adequately improve in those areas?

All you're doing is whining and undercutting his accomplishments without supporting it with any substance, but then you try to overshadow all that with "I hope he proves me wrong" and referencing media ignorance.

I'll repeat again... at the top of the league in drops due to our young/inconsistent WR corps, he still beat everyone in the NFL in YPC (excluding Schaub). What does that tell you about the kind of offense we ran and what we asked him to do?

TonyR
01-26-2012, 11:49 AM
What does that tell you about the kind of offense we ran and what we asked him to do?

Certainly factors. But at the same time a large part of it is that he's better and more comfortable with the long ball. (I'm going to go back to the Whitfield quote below)

"Out of those nine or 10 completions against Pittsburgh, all but two of them were vertical throws. Pretty much everybody can throw it vertical. The challenge is throwing into windows."http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/page/hill-120117/tim-tebow-secure-future-denver-broncos-productive-offseason

He doesn't appear to be as good with the underneath and timing stuff. He also probably missed secondary reads and checkdowns and/or opted to go with the longer throw from time to time.

But tell me this: why is this one stat favoring Tebow more relevant than the stats that don't favor him? Completion percentage (34th)? YPA (28th)?

Spider
01-26-2012, 12:01 PM
:rofl: jhns junior is pissed ..... If your kids are even half as ****ing stupid as you I feel deeply sorry for them for not being swallowed.

TheReverend
01-26-2012, 12:06 PM
But tell me this: why is this one stat favoring Tebow more relevant than the stats that don't favor him? Completion percentage (34th)? YPA (28th)?

Still missing the point though I've said it clearly multiple times:

I don't think it's a stat favoring him. I'm only referencing it because it quite accurately displays the play-calling and the volume of low percentage throws they designed him to work with (not really criticizing it considering his run threat works most of the short and intermediate stuff anyway).

jhns
01-26-2012, 12:06 PM
Why are you even arguing with the Tebow hater? This is what he says after Tebow wins the division with the second worst team in football. The team that spotted him a 1-4 record...

I hate losing which is why I'm done with the Tebow experiment. He failed miserably the last two weeks. He came up really small on Sunday and got outplayed by Kyle Orton. Winning 7 of 8 got a lot of people thinking that Tebow played well but the reality is he never really played all that well other than some bursts here and there. That's not going to get it done in the NFL. You need your QB to be consistently good. I don't see any evidence that Tebow can be that guy. I was rooting for the kid too but reality has set in. You keep clinging to the mirage.

The guy is clearly too stupid for this conversation...

TheReverend
01-26-2012, 12:07 PM
Why are you even arguing with the Tebow hater? This is what he says after Tebow wins the division with the second worst team in football. The team that spotted him a 1-4 record...



The guy is clearly too stupid for thos conversation...

I don't think Tony is stupid at all. I think he's very biased and is flat out wrong, but not stupid.

Spider? Now that's ****ing a masterpiece of stupidity in motion.

Spider
01-26-2012, 12:09 PM
I don't think Tony is stupid at all. I think he's very biased and is flat out wrong, but not stupid.

Spider? Now that's ****ing a masterpiece of stupidity in motion.

:rofl: you calling anyone stupid ..well at least you left my kids out of this time ...

jhns
01-26-2012, 12:09 PM
I don't think Tony is stupid at all. I think he's very biased and is flat out wrong, but not stupid.

Spider? Now that's ****ing a masterpiece of stupidity in motion.

Well, I didn't mean Spider stupid. Just stupid.

He claims he likes winning, so the guy with the winning record is a clear failure. That is pretty stupid.

Spider
01-26-2012, 12:11 PM
Well, I didn't mean Spider stupid. Just stupid.

He claims he likes winning, so the guy with the winning record is a clear failure. That is pretty stupid.

LOL u and the rev are a good couple ......

TheReverend
01-26-2012, 12:13 PM
Well, I didn't mean Spider stupid. Just stupid.

He claims he likes winning, so the guy with the winning record is a clear failure. That is pretty stupid.

He lives in Philly. Probably just brain-washed from idiotic sports media types.

errand
01-26-2012, 05:12 PM
I can understand people being skeptical about Tebow as a QB.

But this is just ridiculous.

No you can't....anyone who has concerns is labelled a hater

KO5K
01-26-2012, 05:21 PM
No you can't....anyone who has concerns is labelled a hater

I've never referred to you as a hater.

I just refer to you as a ****ing idiot.

TheReverend
01-26-2012, 06:57 PM
No you can't....anyone who has concerns is labelled a hater

Very, very, VERY rarely do people with "concerns" ever bring up what their specific concerns are and why they're concerned with it moving forward.

THAT is the problem. People parroting media clowns who are simply just taking a contrarian approach for publicity and views/clicks and then justifying it all with the same disclaimer: "I hope he proves me wrong".

I want someone to be original for once and actually attempt to back up "their" belief.

Cito Pelon
01-26-2012, 07:03 PM
I'm not so much concerned with each specific aspect as I am with all of the issues collectively. He needs improvement in all of those areas. He didn't win the job coming out of camp for a reason. The coaching staff designed an ultra conservative game plan, and stuck with it for the most part, for a reason. His completion percentage was the worst in the league for a reason. Are there mitigating factors in play? Of course there are. There always are. But they can't explain it all away.

Most good to great NFL QB's are pretty good right out of the chute. Sure they have struggles and need to improve in certain areas but you can see the ability and the flashes of brilliance. When it comes to passing I've seen a lot more to be concerned about with Tebow's passing than I have flashes of brilliance.

Then there's the fact that the NFL isn't really a training ground for NFL QB's. Most of these guys come ready to play and don't have a laundry list of flaws that need to be ironed out. Those that do typically don't make it. And you don't necessarily see a quantum leap in ability from NFL QB's. Sure they get better, mostly due to experience and comfort level and confidence. How many guys completely overhaul their mechanics? And look at recent guys like Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco and Mark Sanchez. Those guys aren't really all that different than they were their rookie years, are they?

Tebow started 13 games this year. Do you know in how many of those games he completed > 50% of his passes? Two. Two out of 13. I don't know how anyone can watch the entirety of most of his starts, particularly the Buffalo and 2nd KC game (if not large parts of other games as well), and not come away with some major questions about his passing. If you don't then I think you're being something of a Pollyanna.

Tebow did a superlative job this year under the circumstances. He's got special abilities, he's a great kid, and he's a warrior. He had a profound, positive impact on the running game. His intangibles are off the charts and it's impossible not to admire the guy and root for him. Unfortunately none of this even begins to guarantee that he's got what it takes to get his passing ability up to the level necessary to be a "successful" NFL QB.

Yours and others skepticism doesn't bother me like it does a lot of the other Tebowners. It's legit. Tebow could flop. I don't see it, but it's possible if he doesn't embrace getting coached up and work hard to get the mechanics down pat to where he doesn't get sloppy in games.

Look at Rich Gannon. IIRC early in his career he had all the physical tools, but he was raw, was scattershot and flaky on the field, probably was in practice too. As a 4th round draft pick, they probably didn't coach him up that much, but Tebow is a first rounder, those guys get a lot more attention from the coaching staff.

Tebow will get a lot of attention from Elway and the QB coach and maybe even some guru to be named later. Hopefully that accelerates the learning curve of a guy as raw as Tebow that has to correct flaws in his mechanics.

Spider
01-26-2012, 07:16 PM
Yours and others skepticism doesn't bother me like it does a lot of the other Tebowners. It's legit. Tebow could flop. I don't see it, but it's possible if he doesn't embrace getting coached up and work hard to get the mechanics down pat to where he doesn't get sloppy in games.

Look at Rich Gannon. IIRC early in his career he had all the physical tools, but he was raw, was scattershot and flaky on the field, probably was in practice too. As a 4th round draft pick, they probably didn't coach him up that much, but Tebow is a first rounder, those guys get a lot more attention from the coaching staff.

Tebow will get a lot of attention from Elway and the QB coach and maybe even some guru to be named later. Hopefully that accelerates the learning curve of a guy as raw as Tebow that has to correct flaws in his mechanics.
His mechanics do need work ,but more importantly he needs work on reading the field and decision making ..Those are the areas he needs to improve the most

Cito Pelon
01-26-2012, 07:29 PM
His mechanics do need work ,but more importantly he needs work on reading the field and decision making ..Those are the areas he needs to improve the most

Yeah, a little of this a little of that, maybe a lot of this lot of that, if he works hard and assimilates the coaching that the staff is willing to put into him he could be a good one. The guy has all the tools.

Spider
01-26-2012, 07:47 PM
Yeah, a little of this a little of that, maybe a lot of this lot of that, if he works hard and assimilates the coaching that the staff is willing to put into him he could be a good one. The guy has all the tools.

Agreed

errand
01-26-2012, 07:55 PM
Very, very, VERY rarely do people with "concerns" ever bring up what their specific concerns are and why they're concerned with it moving forward.

THAT is the problem. People parroting media clowns who are simply just taking a contrarian approach for publicity and views/clicks and then justifying it all with the same disclaimer: "I hope he proves me wrong".

I want someone to be original for once and actually attempt to back up "their" belief.

He struggles to throw the ball, and make plays from the pocket....it concerns us because when we HAVE TO throw the ball, we aren't able to consistently. When he's good he's average at best....and when he's bad? Let's just say I can play that good (or badly) for alot less money. Going forward we aren't gonna win alot of games being one dimensional....keep in mind the schedule makers take it easy on 4-12 teams...not so much division champions. He struggled against teams that weren't really that good....and that leads most sane people to think he'll struggle against "better" teams.

Now why don't you explain why it doesn't concern you?

Spider
01-27-2012, 07:32 AM
He struggles to throw the ball, and make plays from the pocket....it concerns us because when we HAVE TO throw the ball, we aren't able to consistently. When he's good he's average at best....and when he's bad? Let's just say I can play that good (or badly) for alot less money. Going forward we aren't gonna win alot of games being one dimensional....keep in mind the schedule makers take it easy on 4-12 teams...not so much division champions. He struggled against teams that weren't really that good....and that leads most sane people to think he'll struggle against "better" teams.

Now why don't you explain why it doesn't concern you?

mega rep ....... good job errand

TheReverend
01-27-2012, 07:46 AM
He struggles to throw the ball, and make plays from the pocket....it concerns us because when we HAVE TO throw the ball, we aren't able to consistently. When he's good he's average at best....and when he's bad? Let's just say I can play that good (or badly) for alot less money. Going forward we aren't gonna win alot of games being one dimensional....keep in mind the schedule makers take it easy on 4-12 teams...not so much division champions. He struggled against teams that weren't really that good....and that leads most sane people to think he'll struggle against "better" teams.

Now why don't you explain why it doesn't concern you?

What throws do you feel he "struggles" with?

Also, fyi, the vast majority of our big plays came from Tebow passing from the pocket.

Also, fyi, nearly every game we won was from Tim "having to" throw the ball.

This is precisely why you people have no argument... because you don't POSE any argument.

There are clearly areas that need improvement (*watch how this works, I'll even provide the specifics FOR you): primarily footwork and the speed in which he diagnoses defenses. BOTH are common problems for young QBs and not a cause for long term concern. As is, he was able to extend plays with his feet and size long enough to make safe plays (which mind you, should also fall on the WRs lack of consistency getting open or ability to make a play on the ball) also more than anyone in the NFL.

Nothing about this offense is "one-dimensional". Hell, even our running game is multi-dimensional. Tim gives us the versatility to become the most multi-dimensional offense in the entire league... and by a large margin.

barryr
01-27-2012, 07:48 AM
The stupids still talking how bad Tebow is and will never improve and then want the Broncos to draft QB's that aren't even that highly rated, but oh, they will improve for sure since they are not named Tebow. Good stuff.

jhns
01-27-2012, 07:52 AM
What throws do you feel he "struggles" with?

Also, fyi, the vast majority of our big plays came from Tebow passing from the pocket.

Also, fyi, nearly every game we won was from Tim "having to" throw the ball.

This is precisely why you people have no argument... because you don't POSE any argument.

There are clearly areas that need improvement (*watch how this works, I'll even provide the specifics FOR you): primarily footwork and the speed in which he diagnoses defenses. BOTH are common problems for young QBs and not a cause for long term concern. As is, he was able to extend plays with his feet and size long enough to make safe plays (which mind you, should also fall on the WRs lack of consistency getting open or ability to make a play on the ball) also more than anyone in the NFL.

Nothing about this offense is "one-dimensional". Hell, even our running game is multi-dimensional. Tim gives us the versatility to become the most multi-dimensional offense in the entire league... and by a large margin.

This is a great post.

No young QB will ever be given time in this city. What is with the claim that the NFL isn't a place for QBs to be developed? I can go on for a long time naming good QBs that looked terrible early. There are a ton that had to be developed in the NFL. Elway is a great example of this.

barryr
01-27-2012, 08:02 AM
Since Elway, the only QB the city of Denver has really embraced that much was Cutler, one of the biggest jerks in the NFL. But he can throw the ball hard though. Having players who represent their city in a good way apparently is not important for many people.

Armchair Bronco
01-27-2012, 12:38 PM
This is a great post.

No young QB will ever be given time in this city. What is with the claim that the NFL isn't a place for QBs to be developed? I can go on for a long time naming good QBs that looked terrible early. There are a ton that had to be developed in the NFL. Elway is a great example of this.

Since Elway, the only QB the city of Denver has really embraced that much was Cutler, one of the biggest jerks in the NFL. But he can throw the ball hard though. Having players who represent their city in a good way apparently is not important for many people.

I think Tebow has what it takes to rise above the fray. But I agree that Denver is one of the hardest cities in the NFL to be an up-and-coming QB.

DBroncos4life
01-27-2012, 01:05 PM
The stupids still talking how bad Tebow is and will never improve and then want the Broncos to draft QB's that aren't even that highly rated, but oh, they will improve for sure since they are not named Tebow. Good stuff.

Just because his name is Tebow doesn't mean he will improve either. We have Tebow and Adam Webber on our roster. Like it or not a QB is needed at some point in time either via the draft or a FA.