Romney Short-Circuits over Tax Return Questions

[Blart]

http://wonkette.com/460756/romney-short-circuits-over-debate-s-tax-return-questions

If you’re a rich man running for the presidency, unfortunately how you spend your money is one of the best indications of who you are.

Watch Romney ramble on and on, while Ron Paul knocks this question out of the park:

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Then the southern boo-birds come out for Romney:

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Romney’s argument here was that releasing his tax returns would just make it easier for the Obama campaign to destroy him, and we don’t want that, South Carolina, do we? But that argument falls flat (even generating some boos), because if you’re not confident that you can actually come out the other side of a political campaign, if you’re not willing to put all your cards on the table, why even run? Why fool millions of Americans into thinking that you’re the best candidate to tackle the President?

[Pony Boy]

Lord knows we wouldn't want to elect someone who's good at managing his own money .......... we need someone with experience in growing the national debt.

[Requiem]

http://whatthejazz.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/johnny5.jpg

[Blart]

I know it makes it easier to think about, but National debt is not similar to personal debt.

[DomCasual]

Just curious. What do you think you're going to see when you look at his returns?

[BroncoInferno]

Just curious. What do you think you're going to see when you look at his returns?

If he's clean, why not go ahead and release them and shut everyone up? Considering that we are talking about a guy who made money in junk bonds and vulture capitalism (Bain Capital), I can understand why he's not in any hurry.

[DomCasual]

If he's clean, why not go ahead and release them and shut everyone up? Considering that we are talking about a guy who made money in junk bonds and vulture capitalism (Bain Capital), I can understand why he's not in any hurry.

I agree with this. I'm not sure I understand his hesitation. I just don't understand the eagerness of those requesting them. The whole thing, on both sides, seems a little odd.

[Rohirrim]

Just curious. What do you think you're going to see when you look at his returns?

I think we're going to see that his secretary pays a higher percentage in taxes than he does.

[BroncoInferno]

I agree with this. I'm not sure I understand his hesitation. I just don't understand the eagerness of those requesting them. The whole thing, on both sides, seems a little odd.

I think the eagerness from the other side comes from his hesitation. Why should he hesitate? It implies guilt of some sort. If you are a primary voter, don't you think you have a right to know if there is something in his background that could damage his chances of winning the general election before casting your vote for him?

[Rohirrim]

I agree with this. I'm not sure I understand his hesitation. I just don't understand the eagerness of those requesting them. The whole thing, on both sides, seems a little odd.

I don't know what you find "odd" about it. One of the most inflammatory issues going on right now in this country is the reality that the past thirty years have seen regulatory and tax policies instituted which have effectively funneled the majority of wealth this country produces into fewer and fewer pockets. We have become one of the worst countries in the industrialized world when it comes to economic equity. Certainly far worse than we were thirty years ago.

And when we get Romney's numbers, we will no doubt see a man waaaaay up in the 1 percenter group who is advocating policies which will further benefit him and his class, to the detriment of most of us.

[DomCasual]

I don't know what you find "odd" about it. One of the most inflammatory issues going on right now in this country is the reality that the past thirty years have seen regulatory and tax policies instituted which have effectively funneled the majority of wealth this country produces into fewer and fewer pockets. We have become one of the worst countries in the industrialized world when it comes to economic equity. Certainly far worse than we were thirty years ago.

And when we get Romney's numbers, we will no doubt see a man waaaaay up in the 1 percenter group who is advocating policies which will further benefit him and his class, to the detriment of most of us.

OF COURSE he's in the 1%. I don't think he would ever deny that. Other than maybe Ron Paul, do you think the other candidates are NOT in the 1%?

Honestly, we're electing someone to be the proverbial leader of the free world. Would we really want someone who hadn't been successful?

Obama reported $5.5 million in income his first year in office. The year he ran for president, he made $2.7 million. Where would you suppose that falls, on the income scale?

[Pony Boy]

Funny how Democrats never worried about how family wealth was acquired when the Kennedy's were in office. Their dastardly ways of acquiring wealth was a taboo subject for the media.

[Pony Boy]

Most of Romney's income comes in the form of capital gains, which have been taxed at 15 percent ever since the Bush tax cuts went into effect a decade ago. Low tax rates on capital gains encourage investment and therefore benefit the entire economy.

[BroncoInferno]

OF COURSE he's in the 1%. I don't think he would ever deny that. Other than maybe Ron Paul, do you think the other candidates are NOT in the 1%?

Honestly, we're electing someone to be the proverbial leader of the free world. Would we really want someone who hadn't been successful?

Obama reported $5.5 million in income his first year in office. The year he ran for president, he made $2.7 million. Where would you suppose that falls, on the income scale?

I think Roh was referring more to the percentage of tax on income a guy like Romney will pay more-so than the total income. Remember the story about Warren Buffett paying about 18% on his taxes, nearly half the percentage of income paid by his secretary? That's what is offensive, the Republicans like Romney champion this sort of inequity, not the net worth.

[Rohirrim]

OF COURSE he's in the 1%. I don't think he would ever deny that. Other than maybe Ron Paul, do you think the other candidates are NOT in the 1%?

Honestly, we're electing someone to be the proverbial leader of the free world. Would we really want someone who hadn't been successful?

Obama reported $5.5 million in income his first year in office. The year he ran for president, he made $2.7 million. Where would you suppose that falls, on the income scale?

It's not his success that's the issue. It's the nature of that success. Americans love somebody like Steve Jobs who came up from nothing and through hard work and inventiveness made himself rich. Americans love that story. Look how Jobs was lionized when he died? That story IS the American dream.

What Americans are suspicious of is the guy who guts companies for their assets, lays off workers, rakes in the skim, and then pays only 15% on what he made, paying less than half what the average American pays. THAT'S what Romney doesn't want to see become the focus of the debate.

As Abraham Lincoln put it, "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."

Romney represents the reversal of that sentiment.

[Rigs11]

Maybe the donald can take some time from his hair styling duties and spend a few million to get Romney to release his taxes

[DomCasual]

It's not his success that's the issue. It's the nature of that success. Americans love somebody like Steve Jobs who came up from nothing and through hard work and inventiveness made himself rich. Americans love that story. Look how Jobs was lionized when he died? That story IS the American dream.

What Americans are suspicious of is the guy who guts companies for their assets, lays off workers, rakes in the skim, and then pays only 15% on what he made, paying less than half what the average American pays. THAT'S what Romney doesn't want to see become the focus of the debate.

As Abraham Lincoln put it, "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."

Romney represents the reversal of that sentiment.

I think you and a lot of people are misunderstanding the 15% number. He is talking about effective tax rate - not the top rate.

This article (http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/18/news/economy/Romney_effective_tax_rate/) explains it pretty well (CNN Money).

From the article: "Keep in mind, an effective tax rate is not the top income tax rate you pay. Those rates can run anywhere from 10% to 35%, depending on how high your income is."

More: "If you consider income tax liability alone, the average effective federal tax rate for people with incomes between $40,000 and $50,000, for instance, is just 3.2%, according to Tax Policy Center estimates. (In measuring income, the center uses gross income and adds to it other forms of compensation, such as the money your employer contributes to your retirement savings.)

The lowest income families actually have negative average effective tax rates when income tax liability alone is measured.

For families making $50,000 to $75,000, the effective tax rate is 5.7%. From $75,000 to $100,000, it's 7.2%. And if you make $200,000, it goes up to 9.9%."

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.bartcop.com/romney-taxes-8.gif
Romney's Cayman Islands Stash
<big>...where drug lords keep their money</big>
<big>
</big><big style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Link</big> (http://news.yahoo.com/romney-parks-millions-offshore-tax-haven-160547876--abc-news.html)<big style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"></big><big style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"></big>
<big style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Although it is not apparent on his financial disclosure form, Willard Romney has millions of dollars sitting in the Cayman Islands, just like a nasty-ass drug lord.

As the race heats up, Willard is finding it difficult to maintain secrecy around his vast personal wealth, including his funds located offshore and his "rich man's" 15% tax rate.

"His personal finances are what's wrong with the American tax system," said Jack Blum, a Washington lawyer who is an authority on tax enforcement and offshore banking.

Romney disclosed that he has been paying a far lower percentage in taxes than most Americans, around 15 percent. Romney's Republican rivals have driven the tax issue onto center stage.

"I can tell you we follow the tax laws," he said.


</big><big></big><big></big><big></big><big style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"></big> <big style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Even if that's true, it means nothing because the tax laws were written by other crooked millionaires who decided they don't need to pay taxes - leaving us little people trying to pay America's bills.</big>

[Odysseus]

I agree with this. I'm not sure I understand his hesitation. I just don't understand the eagerness of those requesting them. The whole thing, on both sides, seems a little odd.

I don't mind his rambling but I do object to "after I am nominated".

What he is hiding, and rightfully so, is how the rich benefit from being rich. Once you get to a point where you are an "accredited" investor you are legitimately not like other people. You have opportunity, tax breaks, investment opportunities and connections that are just stratospheric over others.

It is not fair but it's been that way since Jacksonian Democracy.

[peacepipe]

I agree with this. I'm not sure I understand his hesitation. I just don't understand the eagerness of those requesting them. The whole thing, on both sides, seems a little odd.nothing odd about requesting tax returns. Is he a tax cheat, etc. speaks to his credibility.

[Rohirrim]

I would certainly like to know why a candidate for the presidency of this country finds it necessary to hide assets offshore. I think that's an entirely legitimate question.

[houghtam]

OF COURSE he's in the 1%. I don't think he would ever deny that.

Don't be so sure of that.

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[houghtam]

I would certainly like to know why a candidate for the presidency of this country finds it necessary to hide assets offshore. I think that's an entirely legitimate question.

Not only is it a legitimate question, I'm wondering if the people who are saying "why should Romney show his tax returns" are the same ones who were calling for Obama's birth certificate.