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Broncbow
01-18-2012, 11:39 AM
WIKI IS OFFLINE TODAY IN PROTEST (http://en.wikipedia.org/)

Imagine a World

Without Free KnowledgeFor over a decade, we have spent millions of hours building the largest encyclopedia in human history. Right now, the U.S. Congress is considering legislation that could fatally damage the free and open Internet. For 24 hours, to raise awareness, we are blacking out Wikipedia.

Wes Mantooth
01-18-2012, 12:21 PM
most sensible thing you have brought up broncbow. Rep.

Que
01-18-2012, 12:26 PM
down with SOPA

Smiling Assassin27
01-18-2012, 12:37 PM
It ain't going anywhere. When a co-sponor of a bill rightly listens to his consituents and reasonably abandons his own legislation (Marco Rubio), others are gonna see this and bail on it. Well, 'cept for mules and morons like Harry Reid.

The House will be the saving grace, as they ain't gonna do anything like what the Senate is considering. DOA.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-18-2012, 12:49 PM
It ain't going anywhere. When a co-sponor of a bill rightly listens to his consituents and reasonably abandons his own legislation (Marco Rubio), others are gonna see this and bail on it. Well, 'cept for mules and morons like Harry Reid.

The House will be the saving grace, as they ain't gonna do anything like what the Senate is considering. DOA.

It's not gonna be passed, but there will be some sort of anti-piracy legislation down the line (hopefully a lot smarter than this though)

Archer81
01-18-2012, 12:55 PM
It's not gonna be passed, but there will be some sort of anti-piracy legislation down the line (hopefully a lot smarter than this though)


They will try to get it through in bits. Same as it ever was in Washington.


:Broncos:

Kaylore
01-18-2012, 12:56 PM
I've already mailed letters to all mine. It's going to die. The entertainment industry has a well-paid lobby and most elected officials are idiots when it comes to the internet, but even they can see this goes too far.

alkemical
01-18-2012, 12:57 PM
I did my contacts over lunch.

Jay3
01-18-2012, 01:10 PM
It's done for. If I was a politician, I wouldn't fight for something if they ones who it helps won't fight.

Web sites that openly and flagrantly allow the distribution of pirated material worldwide will continue to exist. If the creators/owners want something to protect their ability to make a living, they're going to have to go back to the drawing board. This one is radioactive.

I have a feeling something eerily similar will get proposed again. But this time Hollywood and the music industry will do a better job of smothering us with a PR campaign. We'll end up with something like SOPA, with a few tweaks. Those tweaks could have been made as part of the deliberations on this bill, but things have gotten so histrionic that there's no saving any bill from this maelstrom.

I'm buying less and less anyway -- it's gotten pretty expensive to buy stuff. If it's okay to get it for free, then that should be the rule.

Taco John
01-18-2012, 01:25 PM
This legislation would absolutely destroy this site. If SOPA and PIPA were to pass, it would be too expensive and too risky to run a web site. Only the most well funded organizations would be able to operate practically on the Internet.

Please do contact your senators and representatives and let them know you wont vote for them if they vote for this.

alkemical
01-18-2012, 01:29 PM
This legislation would absolutely destroy this site. If SOPA and PIPA were to pass, it would be too expensive and too risky to run a web site. Only the most well funded organizations would be able to operate practically on the Internet.

Please do contact your senators and representatives and let them know you wont vote for them if they vote for this.

it takes very little time to make 3 phone calls. They aren't going to ask you a ton of questions - basically - they are "counting votes" today.

bendog
01-18-2012, 01:33 PM
I like the email option better ... of course they can track me......

alkemical
01-18-2012, 01:33 PM
I like the email option better ... of course they can track me......

They already have my prints -

bendog
01-18-2012, 01:43 PM
They already have my prints -

yeah. I've already wordprocessed my little text about a bunch of sports fans harmlessly communicating and posting links to other sites with sprots information on stuff like the NFL and THE SAINTS AND OLE MISS AND MISS ST and ALA and LSU and how these bills would likely cause us not to have these sites to harmlessly chat about SPORTS and how many of their voters ARE ALSO OLE MISS AND ALA AND LSU FANS and while I don't care about pirated movies, and even though I think espn and the nfl are raping me over tv prices I try not to cheat, BUT IF THEY PASS THIS CRAP I'D RATHER VOTE NANCY PELOSI FOR PRESIDENT THAN YOU.

Not that I'm making any political statement to telling anyone what to do.

teknic
01-18-2012, 01:48 PM
Web sites that openly and flagrantly allow the distribution of pirated material worldwide will continue to exist. If the creators/owners want something to protect their ability to make a living, they're going to have to go back to the drawing board. This one is radioactive.

This. There is no sensible way to combat piracy without destroying the internet as we know it.

Even if SOPA or something similar were to pass, all of the same content would still be available to those who know how to look for it. SOPA would only really affect the indexed web (surface web), as it would be impossible to systematically scan the contents of the internet that are not indexed by search engines. If you don't know where to look, you will find nothing. The "surface web" is analogous to the surface of the ocean, where the majority of content is beneath the surface (deep web, or invisible web). The internet is the same way, and it's estimated that only about ~5% of the content on the internet is indexed. The "deep web" has about 95% of the total content, but is not easily accessible to anyone without specific tools (TOR for one, and hiddenwiki has a bunch of links). If SOPA passed, the content would simply not be indexed, so no violations would be found. The average computer user probably wouldn't be able to find anything, but those that know where and how to look would have the same access to pirated content. *note: Please do not go browsing around the deep web, there is a lot of dangerous stuff on there. Your anti-virus will thank you.

The only way to go is opensource. Sharing of knowledge is invaluable to the progression of society. The entertainment industry isn't hurting.

alkemical
01-18-2012, 01:49 PM
Did they want to ban Blank Tapes?

Hell NO! Piracy was good for Maxell, etc. :)

Turd_Ferguson
01-18-2012, 01:54 PM
I did my part, now its in the hands of one of the hottest state Reps South Dakota has ever had... Kristi Noem.

Ray Finkle
01-18-2012, 01:55 PM
It ain't going anywhere. When a co-sponor of a bill rightly listens to his consituents and reasonably abandons his own legislation (Marco Rubio), others are gonna see this and bail on it. Well, 'cept for mules and morons like Harry Reid.

The House will be the saving grace, as they ain't gonna do anything like what the Senate is considering. DOA.

I agree with this. Losing 3 supporters will hopefully be the end of this. They will come up with a viable alternative though.

sisterhellfyre
01-18-2012, 02:13 PM
Did they want to ban Blank Tapes?

(Actually they did want to ban blank tapes. And VCRs, MP3 players, and blank CDs or DVDs. All of those, the industry lawyers argued, would end the entertainment industry.)

Broncbow
01-18-2012, 02:29 PM
The only way to go is opensource. Sharing of knowledge is invaluable to the progression of society. The entertainment industry isn't hurting.

Progressives not so progressive after all EH?

bendog
01-18-2012, 02:33 PM
Not to be political, but the progressive pols have pretty much shunned hollywood on this one. Lamar Smith is the wingnut leading the corporate stooge charge.

SonOfLe-loLang
01-18-2012, 02:46 PM
Not to be political, but the progressive pols have pretty much shunned hollywood on this one. Lamar Smith is the wingnut leading the corporate stooge charge.

I think the public is fairly lockstep against this. I work in the entertainment industry and agree piracy is a problem, but no one clearly knows how to combat it. My guess is it'll take some out of box thinking where they accept the problem, combat it in chucks, but make up for lost revenue in other ways

teknic
01-18-2012, 02:49 PM
Progressives not so progressive after all EH?

I really don't know what you're trying to say.... The best I could come up with is that you misinterpreted the definition of "invaluable".

in·val·u·a·ble/inˈvalyo͞oəbəl/
Adjective:
Extremely useful; indispensable: "an invaluable source of information".

bendog
01-18-2012, 03:06 PM
I think the public is fairly lockstep against this. I work in the entertainment industry and agree piracy is a problem, but no one clearly knows how to combat it. My guess is it'll take some out of box thinking where they accept the problem, combat it in chucks, but make up for lost revenue in other ways

I have a harder time buying cds nowadays, not to even discuss the demise of the local record stores, and my kid's got this Apple thing with hundreds of tunes on it ... I'm not sure where she got the money for this, but I can't find my damn ATM card half the time either, and she and her friends are always taking out my old Stones and Steely Dan Discs and JUST THROWING THEM IN THE STORAGE COMPARTMENT and leaving in the discs they've burned ....

of monteal isn't too awful

scorpio
01-18-2012, 03:06 PM
Did they want to ban Blank Tapes?

Hell NO! Piracy was good for Maxell, etc. :)

Funny you say that, I imagine a big part of SOPA/PIPA is the entertainment industry wanting customers to purchase the physical media.

Archer81
01-18-2012, 03:10 PM
Funny you say that, I imagine a big part of SOPA/PIPA is the entertainment industry wanting customers to purchase the physical media.


Much like print media, CD's are going the way of the dodo.

As it should.

:Broncos:

Chris
01-18-2012, 03:22 PM
I've already mailed letters to all mine. It's going to die. The entertainment industry has a well-paid lobby and most elected officials are idiots when it comes to the internet, but even they can see this goes too far.

- The internet
- The banking system
- Everything except how to do favours for the people that paid for their campaigns

scorpio
01-18-2012, 03:36 PM
Much like print media, CD's are going the way of the dodo.

As it should.

:Broncos:

Of course. But it means a major change in the business model for the content producers, and they have been fighting it tooth and nail.

Chris
01-18-2012, 03:36 PM
Of course. But it means a major change in the business model for the content producers, and they have been fighting it tooth and nail.

Depends on who you're talking about. Independent artists tend to love the new model (see bandcamp, soundcloud, etc.).

Archer81
01-18-2012, 03:38 PM
Of course. But it means a major change in the business model for the content producers, and they have been fighting it tooth and nail.


Which seems counter productive to me. The way technology is evolving, videogames, movies, books and music are moving to digital. The next game consoles might not even sell hard copy games. Everything will be in cloud storage playable from any connected/approved devices.

They should hop on now before they get left behind.

:Broncos:

Mogulseeker
01-18-2012, 03:42 PM
Someone:

Tell me specifically what is wrong with SOPA.

The main thing with SOPA is granting the AG the right to block foreign IPs that infringe on US intellectual property law. They already do this for domestic sites. Seriously... China and Russia are earning a killing in what amounts to simple Capital Flight, using the intellectual property of American citizens.

SOPA will benefit the US economy.

There must be something in addition to that that has everyone riled up. I think that the base idea in SOPA is a good one.

bendog
01-18-2012, 03:42 PM
Which seems counter productive to me. The way technology is evolving, videogames, movies, books and music are moving to digital. The next game consoles might not even sell hard copy games. Everything will be in cloud storage playable from any connected/approved devices.

They should hop on now before they get left behind.

:Broncos:

THAT's what I didn't get. The only tv I watch is old westerns or movies on netflix streaming. My kid doesn't have time to keep up with current tv shows, and I have no interest. So, we have to wait days for a new disk of modern family, which sits on the shelf for days, and then we watch marthon.

I mean yeah I like Pet Sounds and Revolver as they came out, but still.....

scorpio
01-18-2012, 03:44 PM
Depends on who you're talking about. Independent artists tend to love the new model (see bandcamp, soundcloud, etc.).

True, I should have said currently-established content producers. The people who grew wealthy under the old system.

Chris
01-18-2012, 03:46 PM
True, I should have said currently-established content producers. The people who grew wealthy under the old system.

They have to realise that's OVER. They should have realised that 7+ years ago.

Big artists can still make money off of digital sales, endorsements and concerts.

Archer81
01-18-2012, 03:47 PM
THAT's what I didn't get. The only tv I watch is old westerns or movies on netflix streaming. My kid doesn't have time to keep up with current tv shows, and I have no interest. So, we have to wait days for a new disk of modern family, which sits on the shelf for days, and then we watch marthon.

I mean yeah I like Pet Sounds and Revolver as they came out, but still.....


Its rare for me to find a CD that I like in its entirety. I think the last time that happened was a decade ago. So I can't justify spending $17 to $25 on a cd for one or two songs. Now on Itunes I can get the same 2 songs for $2. Which should be presented to both the artist and the label. Do you want $2 or nothing? Digital music is more or less the future. I'm not going to download music from pirated sources...the quality usually sucks. I'd rather go with these companies giving them something. But if they don't embrace the new media then they are fools and probably deserve going out of business.

Evolve or die, ****ers.

:Broncos:

scorpio
01-18-2012, 03:47 PM
Someone:

Tell me specifically what is wrong with SOPA.

The main thing with SOPA is granting the AG the right to block foreign IPs that infringe on US intellectual property law. They already do this for domestic sites. Seriously... China and Russia are earning a killing in what amounts to simple Capital Flight, using the intellectual property of American citizens.

SOPA will benefit the US economy.

There must be something in addition to that that has everyone riled up. I think that the base idea in SOPA is a good one.

The powers ascribed by the act are incredibly broad and poorly defined.

Here is a good read about PIPA (SOPA's dorky little brother), including a summary of why people are concerned about it.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41911.pdf (PDF)

Kaylore
01-18-2012, 03:47 PM
SOPA will benefit the US economy.


Hilarious!

bendog
01-18-2012, 03:53 PM
Hilarious!

That wasn't nice, though honestly if I can use the internet to find out what is seriously bad about Sopa, anyone can. Someone links something from an offshore providers (like any of us know where espn or anyone else has their stuff or heaven forbid something OT like running bulls or what the GD English call football) someone rats out TJ to "big media," big media tells the "govt" to shut TJ down till TJ shows he's not being .... a pirate. or something like that.

enjolras
01-18-2012, 04:15 PM
Someone:

Tell me specifically what is wrong with SOPA.

The main thing with SOPA is granting the AG the right to block foreign IPs that infringe on US intellectual property law. They already do this for domestic sites. Seriously... China and Russia are earning a killing in what amounts to simple Capital Flight, using the intellectual property of American citizens.

SOPA will benefit the US economy.

There must be something in addition to that that has everyone riled up. I think that the base idea in SOPA is a good one.

The language of the bill is intentionally vague. The bill, as currently written, gives the copyright holder and government the ability to hijack the DNS for any site that so much as links to infringing content. This includes domestic sites operating in foreign countries which constitutes a long list. That includes the Orangemane.

Right now, under the DMCA, site owners merely have to respond to requests to remove infringing content (so called safe harbor). This bill would require anyone operating a web property (including this one) to actively monitor and approve links on the site. Copyright holders would have legal standing to go after almost anyone on the internet and put them out of business.

I'm an internet entrepreneur. This bill would effectively put me out of business in a matter of weeks. I simply can't afford to pay for the army of staff required to (by hand) peruse every single thing posted to my sites. I'm not sure how putting my 15 employees on unemployment would ever be "good for the economy".

Mountain Bronco
01-18-2012, 04:15 PM
Here is a very comprehensive article on why it is a problem. Basically, it won't actually solve the real problem, it lets the big boy entertainment companies dictate which internet sites are involved in piracy (on of them even has one of their own artists sites on their list) and it is way to broad.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111122/04254316872/definitive-post-why-sopa-protect-ip-are-bad-bad-ideas.shtml

Mountain Bronco
01-18-2012, 04:17 PM
Forums like this one would essentially be shut down. Forums like this are where IMO the best information on the internet can be found and are a primary example of free speech in the modern world.

DomCasual
01-18-2012, 06:25 PM
How do I contact my congressmen using my WebTv?

snowspot66
01-18-2012, 07:09 PM
I think the public is fairly lockstep against this. I work in the entertainment industry and agree piracy is a problem, but no one clearly knows how to combat it. My guess is it'll take some out of box thinking where they accept the problem, combat it in chucks, but make up for lost revenue in other ways

It will never go away but I like what the creators of Good Old Games or GoG.com have done. For those who don't know they sell old PC titles that everybody loved (in partnership with the rights owners) with no DRM. You pay your money and you own the game. Download it and install it on as many machines as you want it's your choice.

Most important of all, it's EASY and safe. In their home country of Poland (where EVERYTHING was pirated by everybody because that was the only way to get the desired media for the longest time) they effectively reduced piracy to a minor nuisance not worth their time by producing good products and making them easy to use.

In contrast Ubisoft has some of the most harsh and draconian DRM measures in the industry. Their most recent idea is to have a limit on the number of installs a PC game has per serial key to three. Here's the kicker. If you change your video card they count that as an entirely new system. Any hardware changes requires another serial key. Obviously a pretty big point of playing on a PC is that you can upgrade it.

It's intrusive, punishes paying customers, and is despised by pretty much every PC gamer. Also, the product generally sucks. The results? Ubisoft has seen a 90% drop in PC game sales. They have gone after piracy with a vengeance and the only thing they have accomplished is to drive off their paying customers and destroy their own business. Unfortunately they are too stubborn and stupid to realize this. Instead they double down on harsh DRM believing that piracy has only gotten worse because what else could explain their failings? ****ing idiots.

Bronco Bob
01-18-2012, 07:41 PM
Did they want to ban Blank Tapes?

Hell NO! Piracy was good for Maxell, etc. :)

Interestingly there is such a thing as a blank audio CD. It is intended for
a machine that can directly copy a phonograph record onto a CD.
This machine will only work with a blank audio CD, ordinary CDs won't work in one.
They are slightly more expensive than a regular CD, because part of the money goes to the record companies.

I know about this because one of the professors where I work wanted one to record his lectures so this is what I bought for him:

http://www.amazon.com/TEAC-CD-RW890-Recorder-Remote-Black/dp/B0045EJZRQ

alkemical
01-19-2012, 06:40 AM
It will never go away but I like what the creators of Good Old Games or GoG.com have done. For those who don't know they sell old PC titles that everybody loved (in partnership with the rights owners) with no DRM. You pay your money and you own the game. Download it and install it on as many machines as you want it's your choice.

Most important of all, it's EASY and safe. In their home country of Poland (where EVERYTHING was pirated by everybody because that was the only way to get the desired media for the longest time) they effectively reduced piracy to a minor nuisance not worth their time by producing good products and making them easy to use.

In contrast Ubisoft has some of the most harsh and draconian DRM measures in the industry. Their most recent idea is to have a limit on the number of installs a PC game has per serial key to three. Here's the kicker. If you change your video card they count that as an entirely new system. Any hardware changes requires another serial key. Obviously a pretty big point of playing on a PC is that you can upgrade it.

It's intrusive, punishes paying customers, and is despised by pretty much every PC gamer. Also, the product generally sucks. The results? Ubisoft has seen a 90% drop in PC game sales. They have gone after piracy with a vengeance and the only thing they have accomplished is to drive off their paying customers and destroy their own business. Unfortunately they are too stubborn and stupid to realize this. Instead they double down on harsh DRM believing that piracy has only gotten worse because what else could explain their failings? ****ing idiots.

Once you release something - it's no longer yours. It's sort of the weird thing about it.

It's funny, the media industry is always trying to figure out how to catch the "viral" nature of the internet - so instead - they punish people for something they can't do.....

Broncbow
01-19-2012, 08:32 AM
Cockroaches scatter as spotlight is pointed at Internet censorship bill.

Lawmakers have begun to jump ship following a day of protest against the draconian internet legislation, the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA) and the Senate version of the bill, the Protect IP Act (PIPA).

As many major websites such as Wikipedia and Google participated in a “blackout” in opposition to the bills, several former co-sponsers of the legislation have reversed their positions and retreated away from the bills.

Reports of flood of calls to the offices of elected representatives, as well as widespread media coverage seems to be having a significant effect.

Among those to disavow the bill today was influential Florida Republican Senator Marco Rubio, a former co-sponsor who now says that the legislation should be completely re-written to addresses the concerns “raised by all sides.”

“I have been a co-sponsor of the PROTECT IP Act because I believe it’s important to protect American ingenuity, ideas and jobs from being stolen through Internet piracy, much of it occurring overseas through rogue websites in China,” Rubio said in a Facebook post.

“As a senator from Florida, a state with a large presence of artists, creators and businesses connected to the creation of intellectual property, I have a strong interest in stopping online piracy that costs Florida jobs.”

“However, we must do this while simultaneously promoting an open, dynamic Internet environment that is ripe for innovation and promotes new technologies.” the Senator added.

South Carolina Senator Jim DeMint also proclaimed opposition to the legislation, commenting via Twitter “I support intellectual property rights, but I oppose SOPA & PIPA. They’re misguided bills that will cause more harm than good.”

Sen. Robert Menendez (D-.N.J.) separately tweeted that he, too, had concerns and is “working to ensure critical changes are made to the bill.”

Arizona Republican Representative Ben Quayle, another former co-sponsor, has also withdrawn support of the House bill, along with Nebraska Congressman Lee Terry.

Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.), a libertarian leaning Republican, went as far as changing his Facebook profile photo to a logo of the words SOPA and PIPA crossed out, while also disabling key functions on his Facebook wall, preventing guest posts.

“These bills give the federal government unprecedented power to censor Internet content and will stifle the free flow of information and ideas,” Amash wrote. “Demand that Congress and the president keep the Internet open and free.”

A further six Republican Senators penned a letter to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) in which they stated:

“We have increasingly heard from a large number of constituents and other stakeholders with vocal concerns about possible unintended consequences of the proposed legislation, including breaches in cybersecurity, damaging the integrity of the Internet, costly and burdensome litigation, and dilution of First Amendment rights,”



http://www.eutimes.net/2012/01/sopa-co-sponsors-defect-backtrack-after-blackout/

Broncbow
01-20-2012, 07:44 AM
<div><embed width="320" height="240" quality="high" bgcolor="#000000" name="main" id="main" src="http://video.godlikeproductions.com/modules/vPlayer/vPlayer.swf?f=http://video.godlikeproductions.com/modules/vPlayer/vPlayercfg.php?fid=aa2255130f410ad6f52" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"/></embed></div>

Go to 2:18 of the video

Jay3
01-20-2012, 08:14 AM
<div><embed width="320" height="240" quality="high" bgcolor="#000000" name="main" id="main" src="http://video.godlikeproductions.com/modules/vPlayer/vPlayer.swf?f=http://video.godlikeproductions.com/modules/vPlayer/vPlayercfg.php?fid=aa2255130f410ad6f52" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"/></embed></div>

Go to 2:18 of the video

So what's the message -- that Lamar Smith should be allowed to use that image without consequences? He's hypocritical, but the status quo should remain, and he gets to use the photo all he wants?

I don't get it -- this bill is obviously a flawed dumpster fire, but the arguments against it are all over the map. Most of the arguments are really against copyright protection itself.

Mountain Bronco
01-20-2012, 09:34 AM
Not a coincidence that megaupload indictment was unsealed and arrests made after these bills are put in jeopardy.

Smiling Assassin27
01-20-2012, 10:14 AM
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., will postpone a cloture vote on a controversial bill to crack down on foreign websites that use pirated content. His move comes after a public campaign by websites concerned the bill would expose them to lawsuits turned once bipartisan support for the measure to strong opposition in both parties.
“In light of recent events, I have decided to postpone Tuesday’s vote on the PROTECT I.P. Act,” Reid said in a statement. …
The vote was put off despite Judiciary Chairman Patrick Leahy’s continued efforts to cut a deal on an amendment that addressed critics’ concerns. Reid did not say when the bill may come up again.


http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/quick-take-amid-heavy-opposition-reid-puts-off-vote-on-web-piracy-bill-20120120

Jetmeck
01-20-2012, 07:47 PM
Depends on who you're talking about. Independent artists tend to love the new model (see bandcamp, soundcloud, etc.).

Like they are mainstream, come on