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Bronco Rob
01-16-2012, 08:36 AM
Tim Tebow isn't a one-year wonder


With minor offensive improvements, Tebow can lead the Broncos back to the playoffs


By KC Joyner
ESPN Insider



Early in Super Bowl XI, the Oakland Raiders drove down to the Minnesota Vikings' 7-yard line but stalled there and ended up kicking a 24-yard field goal.


Raiders head coach John Madden was none too happy about the end of the drive. As he noted in, "Hey, Wait A Minute, I Wrote a Book!" Madden told his team, "You got to get the ball in the end zone, you got to get six points, not three."


Quarterback Ken Stabler put his arm around Madden and, knowing just how well the offense was playing, told him, "Don't worry, John, there's plenty more where that came from." Stabler was spot on in his assessment, as the Raiders went on to rout the Vikings 32-14.


That sentiment is exactly the type of feeling that Tim Tebow backers should have about his future prospects.



It might seem hard to fathom such a line of thinking after Tebow's Denver Broncos were on the wrong end of a 45-10 AFC divisional playoff game thrashing against the New England Patriots -- partially because he went 9-for-26 for 136 yards -- but the truth is that a game tape and metric review of Denver's 2011 season indicates Tebow has an extraordinary amount of reachable potential.



It all begins by recognizing that the Broncos can continue to use the blueprint that got them to this point in the first place: run the ball, throw deep as often as possible and learn to live with Tebow's mistakes (a potential path for success that was noted right after Tebow took over as the starter).


That offensive design worked to the tune of 322.5 yards per game in the 11 regular-season contests Tebow started. That total is only 24.3 yards per game below the league average and is only 54.1 yards per game short of placing in the top 10.


The big reason for this showing is a Denver rushing attack that averaged more rushing yards per game (164.5) than any other team and ranked sixth in the league in rushing yards per attempt (4.8).


That means the increased yardage will likely have to occur in the passing game, but that should be quite attainable given the issues that held the passing game back this year.


Injuries prevented wide receiver Demaryius Thomas from getting into a game until Week 7. Thomas has an incredible amount of talent (Scouts Inc. gave him a 92 rating in its 2010 draft profile) but rehabbing a multitude of physical ailments (broken foot, sprained ankle, concussion, torn Achilles and fractured finger) has slowed the refinement of his route running skills.


It didn't stop him from posting one of the most memorable receptions in NFL playoff history, but if he gets a full offseason worth of work in, there is no telling how good Thomas could be.


Denver could also benefit from substantial improvements out of its other pass-catchers. Holding on to catchable passes would be a great place to begin. According to ESPN's Stats and Info, the Broncos had a 6.6 percent drop rate on on-target passes, highest in the league.


In addition, it should be noted that Eric Decker and Eddie Royal tallied 6.7 and 3.2 yards per attempt (YPA), respectively, on passes thrown by Tebow this year. Decker's total is below average for a wideout and Royal's number is positively abysmal, so upgrading the talent level here should offer an immediate bottom line improvement.


The odds of getting that upgrade are greatly helped by the depth of wide receiver talent that can be found in this year's NFL draft and free-agency crops. The draft has as many as four potential first-round wide receiver prospects and six or seven pass-catchers with second-round potential.


Free agency is also a more than viable avenue since this year's wide receiving crop could include Vincent Jackson, Marques Colston, DeSean Jackson and Mario Manningham, along with a deep group of solid veteran prospects.


Denver's tight end productivity was strong under Tebow (16-for-21 for 244 yards, 11.6 YPA), but it could also benefit from the development of 2011 draft picks Julius Thomas and Virgil Green (four combined receptions for a total of 29 yards this season).


The aforementioned production numbers also occurred in a campaign that included a lockout-truncated offseason, a new Denver coaching staff and Tebow's taking over as quarterback about one-third of the way through the season.



It took time to get him acclimated as the starter and to get the coaching staff to figure out what would work best with him under center, and yet this offense still was only a medium-sized jump away from being quite productive.


It is also worth noting that Tebow's production was offset by a 2.2 percent interception rate that tied for the ninth lowest in the league.


Tebow's low interception total was not a matter of luck, either, as he posted a superb 1.5 percent bad decision rate (BDR). To put that number into perspective, a 2 percent BDR is considered the mark of excellence for a vertical passer, and Tebow was well below that level. It is a major reason the Denver offense was able to overcome the significant volume of hurdles it faced this year.


The knee jerk reaction is to think of the Broncos' 2011 season as an amazing one-year confluence of events, but don't sell Tebow and company short.
If Denver's front office handles the 2012 offseason well, we might not look back on this season as one for the ages, but instead see it as the beginning of a highly successful NFL career for Tebow.




http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2011/story?id=7464201&_slug_=tim-tebow-denver-broncos-sustain-season-success-nfl&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl %2fplayoffs%2f2011%2fstory%3fid%3d7464201%26_slug_ %3dtim-tebow-denver-broncos-sustain-season-success-nfl

TheReverend
01-16-2012, 08:53 AM
Not so big on Joyner's work but this is pretty solidly done.

go_broncos
01-16-2012, 08:55 AM
We would won more games if Llyod was not traded.We badly need good Wide Receivers.

CEH
01-16-2012, 09:03 AM
I think Desean Jackson is just the type of player this offense needs. Add him plus a scat back like the kid from Oregon and we could strech the field in all directions. I'm still high on Julius Thomas freakish skill set

Chris
01-16-2012, 09:04 AM
I hope he's right (certainly more right than when I used him for fantasy help years ago).

BroncoBeavis
01-16-2012, 09:12 AM
We would won more games if Llyod was not traded.We badly need good Wide Receivers.

Here's what I didn't get. Fox was just a couple weeks off of having to line Tim Tebow up as a WR because we were so thin.

We follow that up with trading our best WR (after already trading our #2 before the season began)

WolfpackGuy
01-16-2012, 09:20 AM
I thought they had a pretty high number of drops, but damn, the highest percentage in the league?

BroncoBeavis
01-16-2012, 09:25 AM
I thought they had a pretty high number of drops, but damn, the highest percentage in the league?

Not just that, but we don't have the kind of hands that can go out and make plays out of bad passes either. Seeing the Ravens WR's making Flacco look better than he is (although that's not saying much) is kinda frustrating.

Anyone who watched that game yesterday should think twice before declaring Tim Tebow a failure.

gyldenlove
01-16-2012, 09:40 AM
It is not about Demayrius Thomas or Eric Decker or Green og Orange Julius or any of the rookies and free agents - it is about Tebow - he had one offseason as a rookie under Mcdaniels behind Quinn and Orton, he had less than half an offseason behind Quinn and Orton with Fox - this year will be his first offseason as a starter, his first time taking snap after snap with the starters, the first offseason with coaches working to make the offense work for him, not him work for the offense.

Tebow is going to improve his completion rate by about 8% points next season to around 54.5%, he will improve his passing yards per game to about 200 yards and his total TDs up from 18 to about 36. That is what is going to drive this team forward.

theAPAOps5
01-16-2012, 09:59 AM
I thought it was a no-no to post full ESPN Insider articles? Don't want TJ getting a letter.

TheReverend
01-16-2012, 10:00 AM
I thought it was a no-no to post full ESPN Insider articles? Don't want TJ getting a letter.

NARC

Archer81
01-16-2012, 10:02 AM
The Denver Broncos have 99 problems but for once QB aint one.


:Broncos:

gunns
01-16-2012, 10:02 AM
We had a team this year that had a lot of rookies playing, also Tebow's becoming the starter, new coaches and none of them got an off season. I think this off season will benefit the Broncos immensely and with some new additions this will be a damn good team.

ChrisToker
01-16-2012, 10:14 AM
Yeah lets totally gut our team for TEBLOW set us back for another 6yrs.

TEBLOW is a over hyped QB that can only thow a strike to his first option. All his check down throws are in the dirt. He maybe able to learn a thing or two about the X's and O's in offseason but by the time your in pros you CAN'T learn accuracy and touch.

Kaylore
01-16-2012, 10:16 AM
I was watching the Niners game and watching as Alex Smith drove the length of the field to salt away the game. That dude was drafted out of Meyer's offense in 2005. It took him, what, seven years to put together a decent year? He was in some ways more polished than Tebow coming out.

I'd venture that Tebow works harder than Smith and at the end of year two probably did more for his franchise than Smith did. I am reminded what an incredible project Tebow is, but his work ethic should shorten the development period to some degree. I don't know how much patience the front office or fan base is going to have, probably not five more years before we see another decent season. However I am curious how much better he'll look with a full offseason.

Archer81
01-16-2012, 10:17 AM
Yeah lets totally gut our team for TEBLOW set us back for another 6yrs.

TEBLOW is a over hyped QB that can only thow a strike to his first option. All his check down throws are in the dirt. He maybe able to learn a thing or two about the X's and O's in offseason but by the time your in pros you CAN'T learn accuracy and touch.


It must be nice to be an ignorant slut, yes?

The bolded is LULZ. Did you watch Elway early in his career?


:Broncos:

Steve Prefontaine
01-16-2012, 10:17 AM
Yeah lets totally gut our team for TEBLOW set us back for another 6yrs.

TEBLOW is a over hyped QB that can only thow a strike to his first option. All his check down throws are in the dirt. He maybe able to learn a thing or two about the X's and O's in offseason but by the time your in pros you CAN'T learn accuracy and touch.

Finally! Someone with an insightful, objective take!

ChrisToker
01-16-2012, 10:20 AM
Dude Elway could make all the throws. To compare TEBLOW to Elway is blasphemous.

BroncoBeavis
01-16-2012, 10:20 AM
I was watching the Niners game and watching as Alex Smith drove the length of the field to salt away the game. That dude was drafted out of Meyer's offense in 2005. It took him, what, seven years to put together a decent year? He was in some ways more polished than Tebow coming out.

I'd venture that Tebow works harder than Smith and at the end of year two probably did more for his franchise than Smith did. I am reminded what an incredible project Tebow is, but his work ethic should shorten the development period to some degree. I don't know how much patience the front office or fan base is going to have, probably not five more years before we see another decent season. However I am curious how much better he'll look with a full offseason.

I posted this once before, but Tebow already has as many 300 yard games as Alex Smith does. :)

Cute anecdotes aside, I don't think you can pin all of SF's struggles over the last 5-6 years on Smith. It's not like you can just plug a QB into any team and under any scenario and say "Ok, Develop according to our schedule now"

Archer81
01-16-2012, 10:25 AM
Dude Elway could make all the throws. To compare TEBLOW to Elway is blasphemous.


You did not say "make all the throws". You said QB's cannot learn accuracy and touch. So clearly you have no idea what you are mumbling about.

:Broncos:

Kaylore
01-16-2012, 10:26 AM
I posted this once before, but Tebow already has as many 300 yard games as Alex Smith does. :)

Cute anecdotes aside, I don't think you can pin all of SF's struggles over the last 5-6 years on Smith. It's not like you can just plug a QB into any team and under any scenario and say "Ok, Develop according to our schedule now"

I wasn't blaming Smith for the team sucking. I was blaming Smith for Smith sucking. I did see a decent bump in performance from him with Norv, but who's to say that is or is not coaching? I suppose even this season could be anomalous for Smith. I'm just pointing out patience with a player like Tebow could yield some decent results. Not saying we shouldn't cover our bases. We need to draft a QB. However I think Tebow deserves more time.

CEH
01-16-2012, 10:33 AM
I wasn't blaming Smith for the team sucking. I was blaming Smith for Smith sucking. I did see a decent bump in performance from him with Norv, but who's to say that is or is not coaching? I suppose even this season could be anomalous for Smith. I'm just pointing out patience with a player like Tebow could yield some decent results. Not saying we shouldn't cover our bases. We need to draft a QB. However I think Tebow deserves more time.


It's highly unusual for the 1st overall pick to take 7 years to develop or even given that much time. Though Mike Singletary rival Josh for incompetence running a football team.

"Can't win with him" . Yeah you can and just did

ChrisToker
01-16-2012, 10:35 AM
You did not say "make all the throws". You said QB's cannot learn accuracy and touch. So clearly you have no idea what you are mumbling about.

:Broncos:

You are obviously delusional about TEBLOW! Thats ok to each their own. But what type of complete dumba$$ does not relate touch and accuracy to can make all the throws? TEBLOW has none of the required gifts to be a QB. He is a great cheerleader but thats about it.

BroncoBeavis
01-16-2012, 10:38 AM
I wasn't blaming Smith for the team sucking. I was blaming Smith for Smith sucking. I did see a decent bump in performance from him with Norv, but who's to say that is or is not coaching? I suppose even this season could be anomalous for Smith. I'm just pointing out patience with a player like Tebow could yield some decent results. Not saying we shouldn't cover our bases. We need to draft a QB. However I think Tebow deserves more time.

I wasn't sure how to read what you were saying. Maybe I read in some pessimism about whether people would be as patient with Tebow.

I'm just saying it doesn't necessarily have to be that way. Off the top of my head I can't think of any decent receiving talent that Smith had to work with.

Also Smith spent some long stretches benched or injured on top of that. Overall I'd say Smith serves as an example of how not to develop your QB. Hopefully we take lessons from that.

Kaylore
01-16-2012, 10:39 AM
You are obviously delusional about TEBLOW! Thats ok to each their own. But what type of complete dumba$$ does not relate touch and accuracy to can make all the throws? TEBLOW has none of the required gifts to be a QB. He is a great cheerleader but thats about it.

Every time you use "TEBLOW" it is incredibly humorous and creative. Do you do bar mitzvahs?

Kaylore
01-16-2012, 10:40 AM
I wasn't sure how to read what you were saying. Maybe I read in some pessimism about whether people would be as patient with Tebow.

I'm just saying it doesn't necessarily have to be that way. Off the top of my head I can't think of any decent receiving talent that Smith had to work with.

Also Smith spent some long stretches benched or injured on top of that. Overall I'd say Smith serves as an example of how not to develop your QB. Hopefully we take lessons from that.

My point was if Alex Smith got decent in 7 years, Tebow, already more productive with a better work ethic could be worth waiting three or four. I wasn't sure anyone not named Broncbow or MacGruder would be willing to give him Alex Smith's seven, but I do think with time and patience Tebow will get at least a little better and we may see a QB who can out-score Drew Brees.

jsco70
01-16-2012, 10:43 AM
Yeah lets totally gut our team for TEBLOW set us back for another 6yrs.

TEBLOW is a over hyped QB that can only thow a strike to his first option. All his check down throws are in the dirt. He maybe able to learn a thing or two about the X's and O's in offseason but by the time your in pros you CAN'T learn accuracy and touch.

Just what this board needs, another douchebag poster whose maturity level dictates name calling and hyperbole. You'll fit in great around here.

Oh yes, to stay on topic, Tebow will improve over this offseason. I think Joyner is pretty spot on with his assessment.

ChrisToker
01-16-2012, 10:44 AM
I don't hate the kid just frustrated w/ his lack of QB skill. It's the counter balance to all the praise he gets. Guys lets face it hes the "King of Kings" when it comes to 3 and out.

teknic
01-16-2012, 10:45 AM
I wasn't blaming Smith for the team sucking. I was blaming Smith for Smith sucking. I did see a decent bump in performance from him with Norv, but who's to say that is or is not coaching? I suppose even this season could be anomalous for Smith. I'm just pointing out patience with a player like Tebow could yield some decent results. Not saying we shouldn't cover our bases. We need to draft a QB. However I think Tebow deserves more time.

No ****. If you feel any differently, I'd question your intelligence.

A first round QB that was arguably THE most dominant college player of all time, has a winning record in the NFL, took the Broncos (that started 1-4) to the divisional round, and has only played 16 professional games in his career (including postseason) definitely deserves the benefit of the doubt. A full offseason as starter, a full training camp of throwing to starting receivers, Tebow should show huge improvement in his second season.

I do hope the Broncos draft a QB this year because there are none other than Tebow on the roster. But to have any inclination to replace Tebow, or have him compete for the starter job is retarded.

go_broncos
01-16-2012, 10:46 AM
Here's what I didn't get. Fox was just a couple weeks off of having to line Tim Tebow up as a WR because we were so thin.

We follow that up with trading our best WR (after already trading our #2 before the season began)

Well..We cut Orton too..

I am glad that we somehow reached playoffs.Imagine how it will be if OAK won the game against SD.

barryr
01-16-2012, 10:47 AM
If the Broncos get more weapons on offense, then I think that is a better way to judge how good a QB Tebow can be. The best QB's in the NFL with plenty of experience would not have put up great numbers in this offense and supporting cast.

mwill07
01-16-2012, 10:47 AM
Here's an interesting Tebow stat: Tied for 3rd in the league in yards per completion. (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2011/passing.htm#passing::18) Tied with Eli, just behind Schaub and Palmer.

I think that the biggest stride Tebow needs to make is seeing and hitting the underneath stuff. I don't think Tebow checked down all year. Tom Brady probably checks down on 50% of his throws - that leads to high completion percentage, and moves the chains. Tebow, on the other hand, looks deep. If it isn't there, he runs around and keeps looking deep, or takes off running.

I'm fine with the throwing motion...I don't think it will ever be NFL caliber. Other QB's have succeeded with goofy throwing motions too...Kosar and Rivers come to mind. Tebow can be as slow and loopy and still have success if he can become more consistent (which I think is footwork related) and if he does a better job with progressions and finds the check-downs. Those two things can get his comp % over 60%, and would make this offense really, really good.

jsco70
01-16-2012, 10:47 AM
I don't hate the kid just frustrated w/ his lack of QB skill. It's the counter balance to all the praise he gets. Guys lets face it hes the "King of Kings" when it comes to 3 and out.

Hey, I get it. I share the frustation. He needs to get better...no question. But to call the guy "Teblow" is lame. Particularly with everything he does off the field. The guy has earned, and deserves respect.

BroncoBeavis
01-16-2012, 10:49 AM
My point was if Alex Smith got decent in 7 years, Tebow, already more productive with a better work ethic could be worth waiting three or four. I wasn't sure anyone not named Broncbow or MacGruder would be willing to give him Alex Smith's seven, but I do think with time and patience Tebow will get at least a little better and we may see a QB who can out-score Drew Brees.

Yeah, there's definitely hope to be had in looking at Alex Smith. Reading some of the people on this board though, it's hard to tell whether the fanbase/organization will have any patience beyond next year, or maybe even through next year.

But it's hard to gauge perception based on a few commenters on a message board, so all of our perceptions of reality are probably skewed somewhat one way or the other. :)

ChrisToker
01-16-2012, 10:53 AM
Hey, I get it. I share the frustation. He needs to get better...no question. But to call the guy "Teblow" is lame. Particularly with everything he does off the field. The guy has earned, and deserves respect.

This is a Football form correct by no means am i attacking his character. Putting it out that when it comes to skills the WNBA>TEBLOW

barryr
01-16-2012, 10:54 AM
Here's an interesting Tebow stat: Tied for 3rd in the league in yards per completion. (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2011/passing.htm#passing::18) Tied with Eli, just behind Schaub and Palmer.

I think that the biggest stride Tebow needs to make is seeing and hitting the underneath stuff. I don't think Tebow checked down all year. Tom Brady probably checks down on 50% of his throws - that leads to high completion percentage, and moves the chains. Tebow, on the other hand, looks deep. If it isn't there, he runs around and keeps looking deep, or takes off running.

I'm fine with the throwing motion...I don't think it will ever be NFL caliber. Other QB's have succeeded with goofy throwing motions too...Kosar and Rivers come to mind. Tebow can be as slow and loopy and still have success if he can become more consistent (which I think is footwork related) and if he does a better job with progressions and finds the check-downs. Those two things can get his comp % over 60%, and would make this offense really, really good.

Agreed, throwing motion is not what will prevent Tebow from being a very good QB. Reading defenses and working on the short game, as well as supporting cast, will determine it.

teknic
01-16-2012, 10:55 AM
I don't hate the kid, I'm just a trolling idiot.

FIFY.

Tebow already demonstrated marked improvement during the season, and with a full off season as the unquestioned starter, he should show significant improvement next year as well.

He has shown he can make all the throws. His arm has never been the question, his consistency is. Inconsistent footwork is probably the area that Tebow needs to show the most improvement in, as well as making his progressions quicker.

As it has been said, Tebow can't be judged on stats alone. He's had a high number of throwaways (avoiding ints), receivers dropped quite a few catchable passes, and due to the offense the Broncos were running, faced a ridiculous number of third and longs (every QB in the league struggles on third and long). Since he only had a small quantity of throws in each game, the effect on the trend of the data of each incompletion is amplified by the small sample size. If Tebow is able to continue to develop as a passer, and the Broncos go to a more traditional offense (20-30 throws a game), there should be noticeable regression to the mean, and I'd expect a completion % of near 55% (Completion % was never an issue for Tebow in college).

ChrisToker
01-16-2012, 11:01 AM
F*cking Canadians

teknic
01-16-2012, 11:02 AM
****ing Canadians

Still mad about us burning the White House down?

JLesSPE
01-16-2012, 11:21 AM
I'm not one for trying to predict the future so I like how this article points out his potential for future success and not a he will/won't succeed take. From what I saw this season I think Tebow's decision making improved dramatically but I think he needs to work on trusting his decision making. The Pitt game really showed what can happen if he trusts himself and his receivers. The potential is there, let's just see if he can capitalize on that.

barryr
01-16-2012, 11:23 AM
I'm not one for trying to predict the future so I like how this article points out his potential for future success and not a he will/won't succeed take. From what I saw this season I think Tebow's decision making improved dramatically but I think he needs to work on trusting his decision making. The Pitt game really showed what can happen if he trusts himself and his receivers. The potential is there, let's just see if he can capitalize on that.

The coaching staff also needs to show more trust in Tebow too and stop the ultr conservative play calling and being so predictable. That won't help Tebow or this offense either.

JLesSPE
01-16-2012, 11:32 AM
The coaching staff also needs to show more trust in Tebow too and stop the ultr conservative play calling and being so predictable. That won't help Tebow or this offense either.

Absolutely, but I see them going hand in hand. When Tebow shows that he'll pull the trigger when its there consistently I think the play calling will change. But the play calling has to change to give him a chance to develop that part of his game.

dictionary
01-16-2012, 11:50 AM
I think Desean Jackson is just the type of player this offense needs. Add him plus a scat back like the kid from Oregon and we could strech the field in all directions. I'm still high on Julius Thomas freakish skill set

This. We will likely lose McCoy to Miami. If we have freakish athletes that can stretch the field in all directions that makes TT and any RB back there with him ueber dangerous.

Archer81
01-16-2012, 12:53 PM
You are obviously delusional about TEBLOW! Thats ok to each their own. But what type of complete dumba$$ does not relate touch and accuracy to can make all the throws? TEBLOW has none of the required gifts to be a QB. He is a great cheerleader but thats about it.


Again, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. You should stick to what you know; namely molesting sheep and acting like a ****wad.

:Broncos:

Kaylore
01-16-2012, 01:12 PM
Still mad about us burning the White House down?

LOL So you admit you are just a UK puppet?

Turd_Ferguson
01-16-2012, 01:20 PM
My point was if Alex Smith got decent in 7 years, Tebow, already more productive with a better work ethic could be worth waiting three or four. I wasn't sure anyone not named Broncbow or MacGruder would be willing to give him Alex Smith's seven, but I do think with time and patience Tebow will get at least a little better and we may see a QB who can out-score Drew Brees.

The biggest difference is that Smith wasn't out there throwing passes that flew through the air going end over end, or stuck in the dirt 5 yards short of the target. He doesn't have a long throwing motion, and never has. He could throw the ball better than Tebow when he was a Rookie. Im not talking about his stats, I'm talking about his ability to pick up a football and throw it.

Is Tebow improving yea probably, but it took Smith 7 years and he was way ahead of where Tebow is when he started.

teknic
01-16-2012, 02:18 PM
LOL So you admit you are just a UK puppet?

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn215/Elka_the_Witchdoctor/canadians-south-park.jpg

peacepipe
01-16-2012, 02:32 PM
I think Desean Jackson is just the type of player this offense needs. Add him plus a scat back like the kid from Oregon and we could strech the field in all directions. I'm still high on Julius Thomas freakish skill set

Unless we get lucky in the draft you'll never see a top end WR or TE play in denver with tebow as the QB. Until tebow proves to be a consistent passer you'll never see a desean jackson in denver.

BroncoBeavis
01-16-2012, 02:37 PM
Unless we get lucky in the draft you'll never see a top end WR or TE play in denver with tebow as the QB. Until tebow proves to be a consistent passer you'll never see a desean jackson in denver.

I don't know. Desean was never an every-play kinda guy. He's good for a few big strikes per game and that's it. That might mesh with Tebow fairly well, assuming DT or Decker can become better possession receivers. DT's showing some signs of it.

Can't see Desean run blocking all that much though. :)

Chris
01-16-2012, 02:45 PM
My point was if Alex Smith got decent in 7 years, Tebow, already more productive with a better work ethic could be worth waiting three or four. I wasn't sure anyone not named Broncbow or MacGruder would be willing to give him Alex Smith's seven, but I do think with time and patience Tebow will get at least a little better and we may see a QB who can out-score Drew Brees.

I'd be curious to know what Alex Smith was always good at, what he was bad at and what he's gotten better at. Never followed the 9ers.

peacepipe
01-16-2012, 02:50 PM
I don't know. Desean was never an every-play kinda guy. He's good for a few big strikes per game and that's it. That might mesh with Tebow fairly well, assuming DT or Decker can become better possession receivers. DT's showing some signs of it.

Can't see Desean run blocking all that much though. :)he wants a BIG contract,for one. second he's going to want to go to a team that he can put up great numbers for that next BIG contract. he's not going to get great numbers with tebow.

BroncoBeavis
01-16-2012, 03:01 PM
The biggest difference is that Smith wasn't out there throwing passes that flew through the air going end over end, or stuck in the dirt 5 yards short of the target. He doesn't have a long throwing motion, and never has. He could throw the ball better than Tebow when he was a Rookie. Im not talking about his stats, I'm talking about his ability to pick up a football and throw it.

Is Tebow improving yea probably, but it took Smith 7 years and he was way ahead of where Tebow is when he started.

One, the whole "He doesn't throw Spiros" argument is amateur hour. You don't throw for 300 yards against the Pittsburgh Steelers without having the fundamental ability to throw a football. Tebow's thrown some ducks, but it's mostly when he's off balance and/or his feet are all crazy. Reps, and more comfort with the offense will help with that.

Two. You're trying to paint this picture where Alex made this smooth progression to where he's at today. Alex had a rough go, even through last year, when he was again benched at the end of 2010. People were pretty surprised to find that he survived into Harbaugh's tenure.

You can credit his turnaround more to Harbaugh than to Alex steadily improving his game.

Rohirrim
01-16-2012, 03:01 PM
I'd be curious to know what Alex Smith was always good at, what he was bad at and what he's gotten better at. Never followed the 9ers.

Much of what benefitted Smith is the same thing that worked for Tebow: Harbaugh put in a risk averse scheme that relied more on defense and Smith operating a simple offense that lowers the chances of him turning it over.

BroncoBeavis
01-16-2012, 03:05 PM
he wants a BIG contract,for one. second he's going to want to go to a team that he can put up great numbers for that next BIG contract. he's not going to get great numbers with tebow.

Not saying he's going to be worth the money. Time will tell. But Jackson really only needs 2 plays a game to be who he is.

And those are the types of plays that have been Tebow's strength. Plus having him out there as a deep threat would make life much easier for our more rounded receivers like DT.

Turd_Ferguson
01-16-2012, 03:18 PM
One, the whole "He doesn't throw Spiros" argument is amateur hour. You don't throw for 300 yards against the Pittsburgh Steelers without having the fundamental ability to throw a football. Tebow's thrown some ducks, but it's mostly when he's off balance and/or his feet are all crazy. Reps, and more comfort with the offense will help with that.

Two. You're trying to paint this picture where Alex made this smooth progression to where he's at today. Alex had a rough go, even through last year, when he was again benched at the end of 2010. People were pretty surprised to find that he survived into Harbaugh's tenure.

You can credit his turnaround more to Harbaugh than to Alex steadily improving his game.

1. The whole Tebow torched the Steelers and is therefore a great passer is amateur hour. I think any QB in the entire NFL would have torched a defense playing the way Pittsburgh was playing. DT said when he lined up in OT he looked at where the safety was, and knew he only had to beat the CB. Tebow completed 10 passes against a team that had both safeties playing the run the whole game.

2. I'm not painting anything about Alex Smith. Somebody else commented Tebow should be given time like Alex Smith was. I pointed out I dont think Smith and Tebow are very similar, as Smith has had more passing ability than Tebow from day one. I agree most of his current success is due to Harbaugh.

myMind
01-16-2012, 03:18 PM
I really ****ing hate Colin Cowherd, his cohost just said he is as classless as the team he roots for. ****ing hate Boston sports fans.

Turd_Ferguson
01-16-2012, 03:28 PM
I really ****ing hate Colin Cowherd, his cohost just said he is as classless as the team he roots for. ****ing hate Boston sports fans.

He's a real POS

BroncoBeavis
01-16-2012, 03:43 PM
1. The whole Tebow torched the Steelers and is therefore a great passer is amateur hour.

It's also a straw man because nobody called Tebow a 'great' passer.

Here's what you said

The biggest difference is that Smith wasn't out there throwing passes that flew through the air going end over end, or stuck in the dirt 5 yards short of the target.

Not sure how saying that's an unfair characterization suddenly morphs into calling Tebow a 'great passer'

Tebow's shown the ability to make all the throws. He's got some consistency issues. But the way to work those out isn't giving him the fewest passing attempts in the league every week.

As for Tebow only making 10 completions... the fact that he set a record for yards per completion should help you understand. A disproportionate number of Tebow's throws are low-percentage bombs, often in bad situations. Give Tebow the same easy 1st down attempts every other quarterback in the league is given, and his completions will improve.

Inkana7
01-16-2012, 03:47 PM
Tebow's shown the ability to make all the throws. He's got some consistency issues. But the way to work those out isn't giving him the fewest passing attempts in the league every week.


Maybe not (and that's up for debate) but it's a great way to avoid any ****ups and keeping your team in the game. If I'm anyone not Tim or a WR, I'd be really pissed if my coaches were calling 30-40 passes a game for Tebow just so he can work on his consistency, winning be damned.

BroncoBeavis
01-16-2012, 03:54 PM
Maybe not (and that's up for debate) but it's a great way to avoid any ****ups and keeping your team in the game. If I'm anyone not Tim or a WR, I'd be really pissed if my coaches were calling 30-40 passes a game for Tebow just so he can work on his consistency, winning be damned.

You mean like Carolina? Teams rebuilding with a new QB usually do exactly what you're saying. And just as a reminder, we'd already started 1-4 when Tim came in. Everyone had already written this year off as a rebuilder.

Without some true Tebow miracles, that's exactly what it would've been. Suddenly though you're acting like a 1-4 team coming off a 4-12 season should only be playing for the playoffs and not developing their talent.

zdoor
01-16-2012, 04:03 PM
I don't understand why people were ok giving Orton another season after 2 dismal seasons here but you're a Tebow lover if you say the guy earned another year after getting us our first playoff win in 7 years.... Irritaional if you ask me....

Powderaddict
01-16-2012, 04:12 PM
I don't understand why people were ok giving Orton another season after 2 dismal seasons here but you're a Tebow lover if you say the guy earned another year after getting us our first playoff win in 7 years.... Irritaional if you ask me....

I'm so happy Orton is gone.

This season is a success if for no other reason then we started the season with Orton as the starting QB and ended the season with him not even on the roster :)

peacepipe
01-16-2012, 04:41 PM
Not saying he's going to be worth the money. Time will tell. But Jackson really only needs 2 plays a game to be who he is.

And those are the types of plays that have been Tebow's strength. Plus having him out there as a deep threat would make life much easier for our more rounded receivers like DT.I don't think any top tier WR is going to come to denver for 1 or 2 plays a game. that's my point.

Blueflame
01-16-2012, 05:56 PM
I don't think any top tier WR is going to come to denver for 1 or 2 plays a game. that's my point.

It doesn't help matters (an understatement) when a HOF receiver like Jerry Rice goes on tv and states that he would find it "frustrating" (the exact word he used) to play with Tebow.

Hopefully with an entire offseason to work on footwork and mechanics, Tebow will show a lot of improvement by opening day and Rice's point will be moot.

strafen
01-16-2012, 06:14 PM
It's also a straw man because nobody called Tebow a 'great' passer.

Here's what you said



Not sure how saying that's an unfair characterization suddenly morphs into calling Tebow a 'great passer'

Tebow's shown the ability to make all the throws. He's got some consistency issues. But the way to work those out isn't giving him the fewest passing attempts in the league every week.

As for Tebow only making 10 completions... the fact that he set a record for yards per completion should help you understand. A disproportionate number of Tebow's throws are low-percentage bombs, often in bad situations. Give Tebow the same easy 1st down attempts every other quarterback in the league is given, and his completions will improve.

I'm not sure he can male ALL the throws. I guess he can, but he still has issues with intermediate to short range distance. He still needs to work on his touch a little bit, especially to be successful in screen passes situations...

Archer81
01-16-2012, 06:40 PM
I don't think any top tier WR is going to come to denver for 1 or 2 plays a game. that's my point.


True. But next season sees the construction of an offense based around the talents of our QB and the WR's on the roster, not something installed and then added to haphazardly during and after a bye week. I really doubt we see a game next year where we have 55 runs and 8 passes. If Tebow is going to be where he should be in year 3, after a full offseason with the coaching staff and players in organized settings we should see more balance in the offense.

We'll see though. TC is a long ways off yet.

:Broncos:

Turd_Ferguson
01-16-2012, 06:45 PM
Give Tebow the same easy 1st down attempts every other quarterback in the league is given, and his completions will improve.

One of the long passes to DT in the Pittsburgh game was actually one of those easy attempts your talking about. Tebow did not "pull the trigger" on time, DT altered his route and went deep and Tebow hit him deep because Polamalu misplayed it and didn't give help deep. Sometimes that works. Usually it doesn't. Im not a coach I'm not going to say i KNOW thats why they don't call a lot of those, but it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't call a lot of those easy short timing patterns cause Tebows complete a very low percentage of them in practice and the times they have called them in the games.

You mean like Carolina? Teams rebuilding with a new QB usually do exactly what you're saying. And just as a reminder, we'd already started 1-4 when Tim came in. Everyone had already written this year off as a rebuilder.

Are you suggesting Carolina was more worried about Cam Newtons development than winning games? Coaches in the NFL are payed to win not throw away seasons to see if MAYBE the QB can develop.

MacGruder
01-16-2012, 06:57 PM
People need to realize there are 3 different ways to play offense..

1. you either use the pass to open your run game

2. use your run game to open your pass game

3. forgo the run game and just use the pass game


2 of those methods require a great oline at minimum to allow them to function.

The one that doesn't is number 2. Which is why the Broncos relied so much on the run game this season.

But against teams with great defensive lines the Broncos still couldn't mask their weakness at Oline.

WolfpackGuy
01-16-2012, 07:00 PM
I don't know if he'll ever totally get the long release out of his system, but he can compensate for some of that with quicker decision making.

Things he needs to work on are footwork, reading defenses, anticipation, throwing guys open, and throwing on the run to the right.

McDman
01-16-2012, 07:04 PM
We would won more games if Llyod was not traded.We badly need good Wide Receivers.

Which game do we win that we lost?

BroncoBeavis
01-16-2012, 07:13 PM
Are you suggesting Carolina was more worried about Cam Newtons development than winning games? Coaches in the NFL are payed to win not throw away seasons to see if MAYBE the QB can develop.

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. And it happens all the time. It could well happen in Indy very soon. Here's another example:

2007 - Green Bay Packers w/ Brett Favre go 13-3. Lose in OT of the NFC Championship to the Giants, otherwise Brett takes the team to the Super Bowl.

2008 - Brett Favre first retires, then decides against. Packers decide it's time to look to the future. Play Aaron Rodgers and send Favre to the Jets. Pack finishes 6-10. Goes home after the regular season.

Jetmeck
01-16-2012, 07:16 PM
I don't understand why people were ok giving Orton another season after 2 dismal seasons here but you're a Tebow lover if you say the guy earned another year after getting us our first playoff win in 7 years.... Irritaional if you ask me....

Exactly.............LOL

Bronco Rob
01-16-2012, 11:05 PM
I don't understand why people were ok giving Orton another season after 2 dismal seasons here but you're a Tebow lover if you say the guy earned another year after getting us our first playoff win in 7 years.... Irritaional if you ask me....



:thumbs:

Dedhed
01-16-2012, 11:36 PM
Yeah lets totally gut our team for TEBLOW set us back for another 6yrs.

TEBLOW is a over hyped QB that can only thow a strike to his first option. All his check down throws are in the dirt. He maybe able to learn a thing or two about the X's and O's in offseason but by the time your in pros you CAN'T learn accuracy and touch.

You mean to like set us back to 6 years ago when we last won a playoff game? Tebow's already accomplished more than Cutler and Orton. He won more playoff games this year than Aaron Rodgers, Phillip Rivers, Michael Vick, Mark Sanchez, Andy Dalton, Ben Roethlisberger, Tony Romo, Matt Stafford.

Every single one of those QB's has a better supporting cast than the group Tebow just took to the conference semi-finals. The notion that Tebow is setting this franchise back is beyond absurd.

We just took a giant leap forward in both success and profitability. Where I come from they call that a step forward.

Dedhed
01-16-2012, 11:38 PM
It's nice to see all the trolls back from their hiatus during the Broncos' success.

Archer81
01-17-2012, 01:54 AM
Denver fought and clawed for every game and came out on top 9 times out of 18. Considering our talent base and overall inexperience at key spots, its impressive. Imagine what happens if the young guys develop further, we add more talent and keep the same attitude?

That's gonna be some scary **** for other NFL teams.

:Broncos:

MacGruder
01-17-2012, 02:35 AM
You mean to like set us back to 6 years ago when we last won a playoff game? Tebow's already accomplished more than Cutler and Orton. He won more playoff games this year than Aaron Rodgers, Phillip Rivers, Michael Vick, Mark Sanchez, Andy Dalton, Ben Roethlisberger, Tony Romo, Matt Stafford.



Can Tebow save the Broncos from bad coaching 2 season in a row though?

Other teams are going to adjust to Tebow and force the rest of the Broncos to beat them. Attack other Broncos weaknesses not Tebow's... I don't have faith Fox and company will prepare for that. Just like they prepared so miserably for Belichick and he prepared masterfully for them.

Fox should have been expanding the Broncos game all season but instead he got more and more conservative.