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snowspot66
01-15-2012, 05:10 PM
Rather than posting this in every thread that warrants it I figured I'd just put it in one of it's own.

In Orton's 4.5 games with us this year had 91 completions on 155 attempts for a 58.7% completion rate. That resulted in 979 yards total at a weak 6.3 YPA and a poor 10.7 YPC. All of this was accomplished with Brandon Lloyd still on the roster. Orton averaged 34 attempts per game.

Tebow in his 11.5 games this year had 126 completions on 271 attempts for a 46.5% completion rate. It resulted in 1729 yards total at an equally weak 6.3 YPA but a very nice 13.7 YPC which is Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers territory. Tebow averaged 23 attempts per game. All of this was accomplished without Brandon Lloyd.

The stats confirm a lot of what we saw on the field. When we did have Tebow throw it was often low percentage throws down field. The lack of short passing plays and Tebows inexperience (thus significantly higher throw away rate, not seeing the open check down, and not having any timing with his receivers) are the root cause of his low completion percentage and not his accuracy (though I will grant those first couple games accuracy was an issue at times).

Also, I would love to see a stat on how many dropped balls we had. It had to have been the highest number in the league. I have never been as frustrated with our receivers as I was this season.

Anyway, based on the averages if Tebow had been given those extra 11 attempts per game Orton was getting he would have averaged out to 219 YPG. That's 3504 yards over a full season and good enough for 15th in the league based on this years stats. Orton averaged 217.5 YPG with us this year (281 YPG last year when our offense was in the top 10 for passing).

It seems pretty obvious that the lack of a drop back passing game has as much to do with poor pass protection when we do try it and overall lack of talent/playmakers in our skill positions which exacerbates the problem and impacts our game plan and play calling even further. The cupboard is bare and has been for a while now. Tebow's abilities allowed us to get a dominant rushing game because it made the defense hesitate. With Orton they didn't have to hesitate and we had one of the worst rushing attacks in the league. As for passing we never had a chance at a good passing game regardless of who was at QB. We lack the talent.

The good news is that if we go out and get some real legitimate NFL offensive talent I think we can expect big strides from Tebow and the offense as a whole next season.

cutthemdown
01-15-2012, 05:20 PM
The reason Tebow doesn't throw short is he is often off target. A deep throw that gets intercepted not as damaging. The coaches didnt let Tebow throw short because they didnt want pick 6 going the other way.

ScottXray
01-15-2012, 05:27 PM
The reason Tebow doesn't throw short is he is often off target. A deep throw that gets intercepted not as damaging. The coaches didnt let Tebow throw short because they didnt want pick 6 going the other way.

Frankly , you MAY be right, but its clear that the coaches also don't have much of a clue as to how to handle it when we fall behind. When the offense isn't working and you are getting stopped at the line ( or behind it) all day long and you keep doing the same thing over and over, despite falling further behind every series, your coaching staff is as much Fail as anything.

Might as well take a shot and see what happens. They didn't.

cutthemdown
01-15-2012, 05:33 PM
Frankly , you MAY be right, but its clear that the coaches also don't have much of a clue as to how to handle it when we fall behind. When the offense isn't working and you are getting stopped at the line ( or behind it) all day long and you keep doing the same thing over and over, despite falling further behind every series, your coaching staff is as much Fail as anything.

Might as well take a shot and see what happens. They didn't.

Honestly what I saw was Tebow having tons of time to throw and just not "pulling the trigger" all that well. Then when he does get quick pressure he fumbles when he gets hit. He's just so very raw as a passer I doubt play calling is the problem.

The interior oline seems good at pass protecting but crap at pushing the dline back. I'm just not sold on Tebow ever being a good passer consistently. I really wish he played FB lol.

oubronco
01-15-2012, 05:35 PM
Honestly what I saw was Tebow having tons of time to throw and just not "pulling the trigger" all that well. Then when he does get quick pressure he fumbles when he gets hit. He's just so very raw as a passer I doubt play calling is the problem.

The interior oline seems good at pass protecting but crap at pushing the dline back. I'm just not sold on Tebow ever being a good passer consistently. I really wish he played FB lol.

Right now he's a two trick pony he either runs it or throws it deep

ColoradoDarin
01-15-2012, 05:37 PM
32nd: Denver’s league rank in completion percentage this season, including passes thrown by Tebow and Kyle Orton.


24th: Where Denver would have ranked in completion percentage if all of their dropped passes had been caught (but if all of the drops for other teams had remained that way). Per the numbers compiled by Stats, Inc., the Broncos dropped 6.53 percent of their passes in 2011 — the third-highest percentage in the league behind Cleveland and San Francisco.


From MaxDenver (http://www.maxdenver.com/news/2012/01/15/patriots-45-broncos-10-by-the-numbers/)

Archer81
01-15-2012, 05:40 PM
From MaxDenver (http://www.maxdenver.com/news/2012/01/15/patriots-45-broncos-10-by-the-numbers/)


No. It was Tebow. He is a RB playing QB, you know...


:Broncos:

oubronco
01-15-2012, 05:41 PM
From MaxDenver (http://www.maxdenver.com/news/2012/01/15/patriots-45-broncos-10-by-the-numbers/)

You mean other teams had wr's drop passes color me shocked

Archer81
01-15-2012, 05:41 PM
Right now he's a two trick pony he either runs it or throws it deep


Game winning TD last week was not that deep, was it?


:Broncos:

oubronco
01-15-2012, 05:42 PM
Game winning TD last week was not that deep, was it?


:Broncos:

one pass does not make your point

Archer81
01-15-2012, 05:44 PM
one pass does not make your point


Blaming the player for playcalling, then declaring "all he can do is A or B" does not make yours.

:Broncos:

Agamemnon
01-15-2012, 05:45 PM
Honestly what I saw was Tebow having tons of time to throw and just not "pulling the trigger" all that well. Then when he does get quick pressure he fumbles when he gets hit. He's just so very raw as a passer I doubt play calling is the problem.

The interior oline seems good at pass protecting but crap at pushing the dline back. I'm just not sold on Tebow ever being a good passer consistently. I really wish he played FB lol.

It's all about play-calling actually. Mainly in the fact that they insist on using two receiver power formations to throw out of with a QB who is far more comfortable with spread formations that spread out the defense making it easier to read. Tebow struggles out of two receiver sets because before this season he had pretty much never played out of two receiver sets. It's really a classic example of not playing to your player's strengths, and it's ridiculous really.

oubronco
01-15-2012, 05:47 PM
Blaming the player for playcalling, then declaring "all he can do is A or B" does not make yours.

:Broncos:

They call the plays they see said person can execute so they say

Archer81
01-15-2012, 05:53 PM
They call the plays they see said person can execute so they say


A few weeks back Phil Simms and Nance were talking about how often they see Tebow throwing in practice during the week, then the coaches still call a game that is majority run. I really doubt in the 250-300 passes a week Tebow is throwing in practice all of them are deep routes.

So clearly something is changing from what they ask him to do in practice and what they ask him to do in game. Then again, when you run on 1st 95% of the time, run on 2nd 90% of the time and then have to get at least 8+ yards on 3rd down its not a surprise that the Broncos see more blitzes and pressure with Tebow having to scramble trying to find the 2 guys that are out on routes...which is usually going deep.

If we are still having this conversation a year from now I think I will be pulling my hair out.

:Broncos:

Popps
01-15-2012, 06:07 PM
We'll talk about this all off-season, but this team needs weapons. Lloyd was the only real one we had. Thomas looks poised, but we don't have anyone who can regularly be a mismatch for a defense. New England has two on offense, and they exploited the **** out of us with them.

We need some big and/or fast freaky playmakers. Call them gadget players, whatever.
We need some home run threats in this offense to take heat off of Teebs.

barryr
01-15-2012, 06:53 PM
Obviously to complete shorter passes, receivers need to get open quickly and that is something that needs improvement. I don't buy Tebow can't ever throw a 10 yard pass with any accuracy, so they don't call those and so they have him throw 50 yarders instead since it sounds so stupid.