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View Full Version : Dennis Allen got raped by Belichick


BabyTO
01-15-2012, 02:18 AM
this stupid mother****er had a whole week to prepare for the ****in pats and this is the game plan he came up with. don't rush the passer, give each receiver a 10 yard cushion, don't break up passes instead wait for receivers to catch the ball and then miss tackles.

can we fire this imbecile? its obvious that talent wise our defense is among the worst in the league and needs a lot of upgrades, but how does a coordinator **** up so bad and goes into a game so unprepared? not game planning at all would have probably been more productive as this asswipe has no clue how to gameplan and adjust.

fire this twat and get a decent coordinator with a background. why the **** anybody would hire a defensive coach/coordinator from a team such as the saints is way beyond me

Garcia Bronco
01-15-2012, 02:21 AM
LOL@theoutrage

LongDongJohnson
01-15-2012, 02:25 AM
Without any lube either. To bad god forgot to help us today like he usually does.

Doggcow
01-15-2012, 02:35 AM
I still wish we had hired Wade... But Allen hasn't been that bad.

Spagnolo is my choice now.

BabyTO
01-15-2012, 02:35 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19745891

Broncos' defensive plans can't rattle Brady

that should help him land a new job with the rams. ****in piece of **** Hilarious!

The Joker
01-15-2012, 02:40 AM
Allen's done a great job.

Blitzing against one of the best QB's of all time when you have precisely one starting DB who knows how to tackle wasn't gonna work well either. Dawkins and Carter being out at the same time was a complete killer.

Genuinely don't think anyone could have drawn up a way to stop Brady with the players we had at our disposal, we were simply outmatched.

BabyTO
01-15-2012, 03:46 AM
Allen's done a great job.

Blitzing against one of the best QB's of all time when you have precisely one starting DB who knows how to tackle wasn't gonna work well either. Dawkins and Carter being out at the same time was a complete killer.

Genuinely don't think anyone could have drawn up a way to stop Brady with the players we had at our disposal, we were simply outmatched.
it doesnt have anything to do with being outmatched. we played the pats in week 15 and our defense looked much better there. we got to brady twice, he fumbled once and threw for only 2 touchdowns. this time around with the same number of passing attempts he threw for 6 touchdowns and he didnt get sacked once. and look at what the dolphins did with him a week later in week 16. sacked 4 times with only 1 touchdown on close to 50 passing attempts, and a 6 yard per pass average (he averaged almost 11 yds yesterday). our defense talent wise is better or equal to the dolphins. their safeties are just as bad, corners i guess are about the same, and our front 7 might actually be better/more talented. its not about that. its about what gameplan you come up with. and dennis allen showed us yesterday (again) why he should be fired in the coming weeks

troya900
01-15-2012, 03:50 AM
this stupid mother****er had a whole week to prepare for the ****in pats and this is the game plan he came up with. don't rush the passer, give each receiver a 10 yard cushion, don't break up passes instead wait for receivers to catch the ball and then miss tackles.

can we fire this imbecile? its obvious that talent wise our defense is among the worst in the league and needs a lot of upgrades, but how does a coordinator **** up so bad and goes into a game so unprepared? not game planning at all would have probably been more productive as this asswipe has no clue how to gameplan and adjust.

fire this twat and get a decent coordinator with a background. why the **** anybody would hire a defensive coach/coordinator from a team such as the saints is way beyond me

Didn't allen have like 2 interviews during the week? Seems like he was unprepared because he was busy preping for them interviews.

UberBroncoMan
01-15-2012, 04:28 AM
this stupid mother****er had a whole week to prepare for the ****in pats and this is the game plan he came up with. don't rush the passer, give each receiver a 10 yard cushion, don't break up passes instead wait for receivers to catch the ball and then miss tackles.

can we fire this imbecile? its obvious that talent wise our defense is among the worst in the league and needs a lot of upgrades, but how does a coordinator **** up so bad and goes into a game so unprepared? not game planning at all would have probably been more productive as this asswipe has no clue how to gameplan and adjust.

fire this twat and get a decent coordinator with a background. why the **** anybody would hire a defensive coach/coordinator from a team such as the saints is way beyond me

Come on now. He had his interview with St. Louis on Thursday before they hired Fisher. So he didn't have an ENTIRE week. :sunshine:

BabyTO
01-15-2012, 05:06 AM
that would explain the ****ty job he did yesterday. hopefully somebody hires this retard and we can get a decent d-coordinator who knows what he's doing.

Shananahan
01-15-2012, 05:18 AM
As soon as you figure out a way to stop the Patriots' offense without an effective pass rush and undrafted/rookie/street-free agent players in more than half the secondary you should probably just apply for the job yourself.

2KBack
01-15-2012, 06:55 AM
Hopefully the gross overreactions will die down in the next few days.

go_broncos
01-15-2012, 06:59 AM
**** you Allen and FOX..get the hell out of here..

elsid13
01-15-2012, 07:00 AM
Hopefully the gross overreactions will die down in the next few days.

All your years posting on the mane, and you actually believe that?

2KBack
01-15-2012, 07:02 AM
All your years posting on the mane, and you actually believe that?

touche' my friend

BabyTO
01-15-2012, 07:05 AM
As soon as you figure out a way to stop the Patriots' offense without an effective pass rush and undrafted/rookie/street-free agent players in more than half the secondary you should probably just apply for the job yourself.
do you realize that brady basically a perfect game/qb rating and 6 passing TDs? who said anything about STOPPING the ****in guy? the most TD passes he through in one game during the season was 4 and he only did it twice. he's thrown 2 TDs per game mostly. we didn't have to STOP the guy, we just had to try to not get raped by belichick. 2 TDs would have been cool. 3 TDs would have been bad but still somewhat manageable. but 6 ****in touchdowns? give me a break.

a monkey could have just called the plays yesterday and the result probably would have been the same, maybe brady would have been even less productive. how could it have been any worse. stop blaming it on our players, we played brady a couple weeks before and our players didn't get ****ed the same way they have been yesterday. its not (just) the players. of course our defense sucks for the most part but you still dont perform like that unless your defensive coordinator spent half the week trying to get a new job and not focus on the patriots. get rid of that clown

BabyTO
01-15-2012, 07:09 AM
Hopefully the gross overreactions will die down in the next few days.
gross overreactions? our defense just got ****ed in the ass on national tv in the playoffs, on prime time. are you that big of a loser that you're cool with that? i dont get it. how is this not a big deal to you?

Spider
01-15-2012, 07:16 AM
it doesnt have anything to do with being outmatched. we played the pats in week 15 and our defense looked much better there. we got to brady twice, he fumbled once and threw for only 2 touchdowns. this time around with the same number of passing attempts he threw for 6 touchdowns and he didnt get sacked once. and look at what the dolphins did with him a week later in week 16. sacked 4 times with only 1 touchdown on close to 50 passing attempts, and a 6 yard per pass average (he averaged almost 11 yds yesterday). our defense talent wise is better or equal to the dolphins. their safeties are just as bad, corners i guess are about the same, and our front 7 might actually be better/more talented. its not about that. its about what gameplan you come up with. and dennis allen showed us yesterday (again) why he should be fired in the coming weeks
LOL
it has everything to do with being outmatched

Lolad
01-15-2012, 07:19 AM
We did get outplayed but I believe it has more to do with personnel then scheme. We can't play defense, tight man to man coverage without a pass rush and more than half our secondary that can't tackle if a catch was made.

Pittsburgh, Jets (when their D is playing well) does so well against NE because they have a lot of places where they can get pressure, a nasty DT that can pressure the QB is an obvious need, as well as some consistent tacklers all over this defense

Dukes
01-15-2012, 07:20 AM
Didn't allen have like 2 interviews during the week? Seems like he was unprepared because he was busy preping for them interviews.

The Stupidity of people here never cease to amaze me

barryr
01-15-2012, 07:21 AM
Until the Broncos get serious about the DL, this will be the norm. But when you have lesser type of players, it would be nice to have a DC who then tries to hide what his defense is doing in terms of coverages and rushers since your main goal should be to try to confuse the OL and QB in what he is seeing. If you think with no real dominant players in your front 7, you can just play normally and conservatively, well, you get results like yesterday and other games against the very good offenses.

So either the DC needs to spend more time being creative or the Broncos need to finally get some impact players on the defense and take it seriously for the first time in a decade or more.

2KBack
01-15-2012, 07:21 AM
gross overreactions? our defense just got ****ed in the ass on national tv in the playoffs, on prime time. are you that big of a loser that you're cool with that? i dont get it. how is this not a big deal to you?

Pardon me, but feel free to leave the personal insults for the rest of your 6th grade class.

Games like this happen, the success of the defense this season has been erratic, but it is also the reason we were even in the playoffs. The reality is we have a middle of the road defense talent wise (when at full strength), and yesterday we were using undrafted rookies and practice squad players to fill roles on the weakest part of our defense, which just happens to be the biggest strength of the Patriots offense.

It actually ISN'T a big deal this season. Maybe some here were expecting magic, but this was very likely how the season was going to end. This team is not ready to go toe to toe with an elite team in a huge game like that. Not unlike our 80's superbowl teams....a little magic and a lot of luck got us there.

What happens now is what matters....how you build on what was successful this season (like turning our defense around after 2 years of historic ineptness). Firing yet another DC is one of the stupidest things you could do.

Dukes
01-15-2012, 07:23 AM
gross overreactions? our defense just got ****ed in the ass on national tv in the playoffs, on prime time. are you that big of a loser that you're cool with that? i dont get it. how is this not a big deal to you?

I can understand the outrage if TJ Yates raped us, but unfortunately it was one of the best QB's ever.

BabyTO
01-15-2012, 07:24 AM
Games like this happen
you make a great raider fan :)

2KBack
01-15-2012, 07:27 AM
you make a great raider fan :)

An mature rebuttal.

BabyTO
01-15-2012, 07:33 AM
I can understand the outrage if TJ Yates raped us, but unfortunately it was one of the best QB's ever.
he has thrown for only 2 td's in our last meeting. lets stop with the brady talk already, he's not aaron rodgers that throws for 7 touchdowns each game. why do people ignore the fact that allen that ****face spent half his week trying to get a new job.

WolfpackGuy
01-15-2012, 07:38 AM
The defense just doesn't have the overall talent right now to deal with multiple threats, but you can't say Allen wasn't putting them in position to make plays.

Bruton missed tackle on Hernandez in the hole on the first drive.

Mays dropped INT right in his breadbasket.

Goodman probably could've broken up that TD to Branch had he just stuck his damn hand out.

barryr
01-15-2012, 07:39 AM
From what I have seen this year, it amazes me guys like Allen and McCoy both got interviews for head coaching jobs. Both units ranked in the 20's and more predictable than about any team in the NFL and they are head coach material? Standards must be lower to become a head coach these days or organizations just trying to find the cheapest ones or something.

Lolad
01-15-2012, 07:39 AM
If you watch the game a lot of players were in position to stop the long plays, I bet NE got the majority of their yards from YAC. We couldn't tackle, that's one of our biggest weaknesses that got exposed. When we were playing effectively throughout our 7-1 run we were tackling with much more efficiency

Vegas_Bronco
01-15-2012, 07:42 AM
We didn't want this at all...nice to see tebow call his teammates out after getting frustrated...I don't think he realizes how slow he looked on the field also. We are a 1bit trick pony and ne had us owned from the start. Let's go Texans!!!

go_broncos
01-15-2012, 07:45 AM
We didn't want this at all...nice to see tebow call his teammates out after getting frustrated...I don't think he realizes how slow he looked on the field also. We are a 1bit trick pony and ne had us owned from the start. Let's go Texans!!!

The only team we could have beaten is Texans..They have no chance against Baltimore.

elsid13
01-15-2012, 08:55 AM
The only team we could have beaten is Texans..They have no chance against Baltimore.

You haven't watched the Texans, because their defense is far superior to NE and the running game is best in the league.

Inkana7
01-15-2012, 09:43 AM
Baby TO indeed

Shananahan
01-15-2012, 02:19 PM
do you realize that brady basically a perfect game/qb rating and 6 passing TDs? who said anything about STOPPING the ****in guy? the most TD passes he through in one game during the season was 4 and he only did it twice. he's thrown 2 TDs per game mostly. we didn't have to STOP the guy, we just had to try to not get raped by belichick. 2 TDs would have been cool. 3 TDs would have been bad but still somewhat manageable. but 6 ****in touchdowns? give me a break.

a monkey could have just called the plays yesterday and the result probably would have been the same, maybe brady would have been even less productive. how could it have been any worse. stop blaming it on our players, we played brady a couple weeks before and our players didn't get ****ed the same way they have been yesterday. its not (just) the players. of course our defense sucks for the most part but you still dont perform like that unless your defensive coordinator spent half the week trying to get a new job and not focus on the patriots. get rid of that clown
Like I said, you should apply for the job if it's that obvious. The entire league has been unable to stop Gronk and Brady this year, and you've yet to really offer in this thread what exactly you would have done better.

If you really think the defensive failure wasn't mainly about a severe, crippling lack of talent at the safety and interior defensive line then I don't know what to tell you.

broncolife
01-15-2012, 02:26 PM
Allen's done a great job.

Blitzing against one of the best QB's of all time when you have precisely one starting DB who knows how to tackle wasn't gonna work well either. .

What we were doing wasnt working so why not blitz and have a chance at hitting Brady. So what if we got burnt, it just means they score 50 seconds earlier then they would have.

eddie mac
01-15-2012, 02:26 PM
What a joke thread. There's a reason why he and McCoy were both interviewed/scheduled to be interviewed for HC positions in the last 1-2 weeks. We are lucky to have them. It is the tools that they currently have to work with that are the problem. On offense McCoy has to work with an unconventional QB who cannot yet play in a standard NFL offense, he also has to work with injured backs/WR's and injuries on the OL.

Allen has been blessed with similar tools. An average DL and a pass rush that basically died once Miller got hurt, A MLB who should not be starting in this league and a secondary aged to the hilt with injuries to boot.

I'll be more than happy that both are still here next year and both get a chance to revitalise their units with new personnel and in McCoy's case a full offseason to work with Tebow.

NFLBRONCO
01-15-2012, 02:32 PM
I honestly feel last thing we need is switch coaches every year like them or not. Secondly even IF D played their best game all year we'd be hard pressed beating NE with our present offense. So while getting mad about gameplan look at bigger picture we need more talent all over to worry about gameplanning alone.

Shananahan
01-15-2012, 02:34 PM
I'll be more than happy that both are still here next year and both get a chance to revitalise their units with new personnel and in McCoy's case a full offseason to work with Tebow.
I'm not exactly thrilled with McCoy coming back, but the thought that Tebow might develop as a passer and our games could be closer to the Steelers win than yesterday's loss is softening me on that.

Allen, however, I agree with you completely on. I'm not sure if he's ever going to be a top-notch DC, but he's earned another season after the (meager) improvement and success he had with this team. Continuity in a system can go a long ways toward a better defense, and he deserves to show what he can do with more talent.

R8R H8R
01-15-2012, 02:47 PM
This game reminded me a lot of the Broncos- SF SB. You know the game where even Elway said it "was over at the kick-off".

Wade Phillips was a 1st year defensive coordinator that year. He took a lot of heat, as did the offense, but especially Phillips for not making adjustments. The truth is he really didn't have the personnel to make those adjustments.

As we now know, Phillips is a top DC in this league and highly respected. Truth is, I have a real problem blaming coaches when, just like SB XXIV, this was nothing more than a total and complete mismatch in terms of talent.

BabyTO
01-15-2012, 03:01 PM
This game reminded me a lot of the Broncos- SF SB. You know the game where even Elway said it "was over at the kick-off".

Wade Phillips was a 1st year defensive coordinator that year. He took a lot of heat, as did the offense, but especially Phillips for not making adjustments. The truth is he really didn't have the personnel to make those adjustments.

As we now know, Phillips is a top DC in this league and highly respected. Truth is, I have a real problem blaming coaches when, just like SB XXIV, this was nothing more than a total and complete mismatch in terms of talent.
dude anybody could coordinate a defense with all pro players at every position. we have a bunch of great players on this defense, but they cant do **** if the idiot coordinating them and gameplanning vs the pats is busy with interviewing for other jobs

Shananahan
01-15-2012, 03:11 PM
dude anybody could coordinate a defense with all pro players at every position. we have a bunch of great players on this defense, but they cant do **** if the idiot coordinating them and gameplanning vs the pats is busy with interviewing for other jobs
The entire league has been unable to stop Gronk and Brady this year, and you've yet to really offer in this thread what exactly you would have done better.
So...

R8R H8R
01-15-2012, 03:25 PM
So...

Don't bother. Once again we're dealing with another petulant child who's answer to every loss is to cut all the players except Tebow and fire the entire coaching staff.

Shananahan
01-15-2012, 03:26 PM
I'm bored, though.

go_broncos
01-15-2012, 03:27 PM
out of 8 teams..we are the worst team..didn't even compete

R8R H8R
01-15-2012, 03:29 PM
I'm bored, though.

Good one! ROFL!

CEH
01-15-2012, 03:30 PM
out of 8 teams..we are the worst team..didn't even compete

By my math we jumped from #31 to #8. Not too bad for year one of a new regime

go_broncos
01-15-2012, 03:33 PM
By my math we jumped from #31 to #8. Not too bad for year one of a new regime

yeah..but talent wise..we are near 30's.

I am not sure if it is a good to pick at 25..we have many holes to fill.

CEH
01-15-2012, 03:46 PM
yeah..but talent wise..we are near 30's.

I am not sure if it is a good to pick at 25..we have many holes to fill.

It's a QB league. We have front office who drafted and signed FA really well this past season. Let's wait and see how they do over the next to years.

Really depends how you rate Tebow but have many 30ish teams have two Pro Bowl DEs, a pro bowl CB, a Pro Bowl LT a soon to be Pro Bowl RT, a top G . DT was picked at #22, Tebow at #25. Once you get outside the top 5 I think 6-32 there are All Pro's to be drafted

You can't build a team of All Pro's. If you can get 5 All Pros on you team you are doing really well. If Tebow can improve as a QB we are well on our way to being an top 10 team for years to come.

NFLBRONCO
01-15-2012, 04:07 PM
By my math we jumped from #31 to #8. Not too bad for year one of a new regime

By the math yes but, looking with reality that jump is fool's gold. I like the progress so far though.

BroncosSR
01-15-2012, 04:15 PM
What a joke thread. There's a reason why he and McCoy were both interviewed/scheduled to be interviewed for HC positions in the last 1-2 weeks. We are lucky to have them. It is the tools that they currently have to work with that are the problem. On offense McCoy has to work with an unconventional QB who cannot yet play in a standard NFL offense, he also has to work with injured backs/WR's and injuries on the OL.

Allen has been blessed with similar tools. An average DL and a pass rush that basically died once Miller got hurt, A MLB who should not be starting in this league and a secondary aged to the hilt with injuries to boot.

I'll be more than happy that both are still here next year and both get a chance to revitalise their units with new personnel and in McCoy's case a full offseason to work with Tebow.

What a joke post.

McCoy hurt the offense as much as he helped it. Name one game where our offense was clearly in control? Where we could move at will? Not a single one. And we played some very bad teams. Teams whose defense is ranked dead last. The majority of the games we won, we had to win in the last few minutes or overtime. "Tebow Time" wouldn't exist without the strong play of the defense in those games. Third and long and he called plays that conceded the possession to the opposing team. Designed runs on 3rd and 8+? You're fooling yourself if you think we have a gem of an OC.

bronco militia
01-15-2012, 04:18 PM
allen had guys in position to make plays and they either dropped INT's or missed tackle. This was the case in several games this year.

Allen was not the problem

24champ
01-15-2012, 04:23 PM
why do people ignore the fact that allen that ****face spent half his week trying to get a new job.

He didn't spend half the week trying to get the Rams job. BTW He's a good DC...

http://media2011.buhfly.com/gifs/deal%20with%20it%203.gif

go_broncos
01-15-2012, 05:22 PM
What a joke thread. There's a reason why he and McCoy were both interviewed/scheduled to be interviewed for HC positions in the last 1-2 weeks. We are lucky to have them. It is the tools that they currently have to work with that are the problem. On offense McCoy has to work with an unconventional QB who cannot yet play in a standard NFL offense, he also has to work with injured backs/WR's and injuries on the OL.

Allen has been blessed with similar tools. An average DL and a pass rush that basically died once Miller got hurt, A MLB who should not be starting in this league and a secondary aged to the hilt with injuries to boot.

I'll be more than happy that both are still here next year and both get a chance to revitalise their units with new personnel and in McCoy's case a full offseason to work with Tebow.

Remember..we hired Mcd as a coach.
Mccoy sucks..hopefully, he gets another job.

DBroncos4life
01-15-2012, 05:29 PM
How dare Allen. He is the only one ever to get beat by Belichick!!!

Turd_Ferguson
01-15-2012, 05:36 PM
So of all the crap that people get banned over and gets moved to the butt, and this guy is allowed to start threads like this?

This is the same scum bag that was happy when Decker was knocked out though...its to be expected that he would come up with this.

eddie mac
01-15-2012, 08:36 PM
What a joke post.

McCoy hurt the offense as much as he helped it. Name one game where our offense was clearly in control? Where we could move at will? Not a single one. And we played some very bad teams. Teams whose defense is ranked dead last. The majority of the games we won, we had to win in the last few minutes or overtime. "Tebow Time" wouldn't exist without the strong play of the defense in those games. Third and long and he called plays that conceded the possession to the opposing team. Designed runs on 3rd and 8+? You're fooling yourself if you think we have a gem of an OC.

The best player on offense is Willis McGahee, figure that out and you'll see where this unit is talent wise and why this offense couldn't control games. If McCoy gave Tebow the reigns this year he'd have turned the ball over 30-40 times and we'd have lost a lot more games. The playcalling is conservative for a reason and the reason being that 1/2 this offense isn't ready for a QB who isn't ready for a real NFL package playbook. Get that into your thick skull and maybe you'll see the bigger picture. The designed runs on 3rd and 8 were more than demonstrated when Tebow dropped back to pass on 3rd down against the Bills, was that 4 or 5 turnovers in that one situation???

This kid cant even call an audible yet in this league so McCoy is perfect for the run until you can throw offense if you catch the pun.

Afterall the conservative playcalling was also in place because Fox believed he could rely on his D to keep the game close. In the games he relied on his offense they failed miserably because they aren't ready, they dont have the talent or aren't coached up enough yet.

BroncosSR
01-15-2012, 09:32 PM
So McCoy felt that that Tebow was ready for numerous low percentage throws that were 30-40+ yards deep but not for an 8 yard passing pattern to extend drives? The designed runs in 3rd and long have been happening since Tebow took over in week 5.

And yet, there were countless drives where Tebow had demonstrated somehow that he was able to pass the ball down the field in this so-called mystical "NFL package playbook" filled with rainbows and unicorns and complex 8 yard passes. Give me a break. More like he won in the last 2 minutes so many times because he was forced to call plays that, you know...gain yardage for 1st downs. If Fox had so much faith in the defense, don't you think he'd be willing to throw the ball in a 3rd and 8 situation?

I find it hysterical that you seem to think you have direct, factual knowledge that somehow McCoy is smarter that everybody else and is able to scheme an NFL offense that averages scoring at 25th out of 32 teams as a mastermind that anybody who questions him has a "thick skull". He schemed so well he put up a 10 spot on the worst passing defense in the league this year. Yeah, that's right. 32nd ranked passing defense. Chicago had the 28th worst pass defense and he put up another whopping 13 spot on them in the last 5 minutes and OT. Miami had the 25th worst passing defense and they were held scoreless for 56 minutes.

But your right. He's the man with the master plan that my "thick skull" can't understand. Statistics be damned.

NUB
01-15-2012, 09:37 PM
It was a really bad gameplan for sure. It reminded me of the sort Coyer used to bring against Manning; the kind I just don't get when you look at the competition. That said, it is a pretty difficult job to stop the #1 AFC team when your defense is a patchwork of parts like Denver's.

eddie mac
01-15-2012, 09:39 PM
So McCoy felt that that Tebow was ready for numerous low percentage throws that were 30-40+ yards deep but not for an 8 yard passing pattern to extend drives? The designed runs in 3rd and long have been happening since Tebow took over in week 5.

And yet, there were countless drives where Tebow had demonstrated somehow that he was able to pass the ball down the field in this so-called mystical "NFL package playbook" filled with rainbows and unicorns and complex 8 yard passes. Give me a break. More like he won in the last 2 minutes so many times because he was forced to call plays that, you know...gain yardage for 1st downs. If Fox had so much faith in the defense, don't you think he'd be willing to throw the ball in a 3rd and 8 situation?

I find it hysterical that you seem to think you have direct, factual knowledge that somehow McCoy is smarter that everybody else and is able to scheme an NFL offense that averages scoring at 25th out of 32 teams as a mastermind that anybody who questions him has a "thick skull". He schemed so well he put up a 10 spot on the worst passing defense in the league this year. Yeah, that's right. 32nd ranked passing defense. Chicago had the 28th worst pass defense and he put up another whopping 13 spot on them in the last 5 minutes and OT. Miami had the 25th worst passing defense and they were held scoreless for 56 minutes.

But your right. He's the man with the master plan that my "thick skull" can't understand. Statistics be damned.

Dont blame me, blame Tim Tebow, as proven by every analyst out there the boy has yet to master the underneath routes in this game. He can certainly throw a deep ball better then many young QB's out there but as the % throwing stats show he struggles when he has to drop back and throw that quick short ball in 2-3 seconds. That may well come with time but right now it is not there and it is an important facet in all if not many NFL passing packages.

BroncosSR
01-15-2012, 09:55 PM
Dont blame me, blame Tim Tebow, as proven by every analyst out there the boy has yet to master the underneath routes in this game. He can certainly throw a deep ball better then many young QB's out there but as the % throwing stats show he struggles when he has to drop back and throw that quick short ball in 2-3 seconds. That may well come with time but right now it is not there and it is an important facet in all if not many NFL passing packages.

Yet he somehow managed to do it in the last 5 minutes of numerous games to win. Odd.

Don't take my words as endorsement of Tebow because thats not what it is. I'm just not willing to credit McCoy for an ineffective offense thats constantly stifled by complacent and conservative playcalling the first 56 minutes of a game.

ZONA
01-15-2012, 10:35 PM
Honestly it's real easy to sit back and hammer on the D and while they didn't play great by any means, our offense did jack **** to help them out. It seemed like our defense was on the field all damn day long. The only REAL way to stop Brady is to keep him off the field and we weren't even close to doing that.

Agamemnon
01-15-2012, 10:49 PM
It was a really bad gameplan for sure. It reminded me of the sort Coyer used to bring against Manning; the kind I just don't get when you look at the competition. That said, it is a pretty difficult job to stop the #1 AFC team when your defense is a patchwork of parts like Denver's.

But when you use three man rush packages and keep your corners five yards off against Brady, you are special. No other way to put it.

CEH
01-16-2012, 07:54 AM
The 3 and outs were killer this year. Anytime he takes 5 seconds to throw the ball that is on him not the play call. Watch the QBs yesterday from the shotgun. They have 3 seconds to get the ball out to keep the offense on schedule. You want the QB that can make the play off schedule like Tebow but you also need rthymin in the offense and we just didn't have that this year. IMO Tebow has to make a gigantic leap next year in that area. Hopefully expierence and game speed will be a big learning aid for him from this year

As far as Allen, I bet there is not on DC in the country that thought Hernadez would be a running back from the backfield and he was NE leading rusher. Sometimes it's about making plays. NE just has better talent right now than Denver and the QB can't keep up with any top nothced offense with now.

BroncoBeavis
01-16-2012, 07:59 AM
The 3 and outs were killer this year. Anytime he takes 5 seconds to throw the ball that is on him not the play call. Watch the QBs yesterday from the shotgun. They have 3 seconds to get the ball out to keep the offense on schedule. You want the QB that can make the play off schedule like Tebow but you also need rthymin in the offense and we just didn't have that this year. IMO Tebow has to make a gigantic leap next year in that area. Hopefully expierence and game speed will be a big learning aid for him from this year

I don't remember him getting much in that kind of protection on Saturday. And outside of that, sending two wideouts into a defense who knows a pass is coming makes for some tough passing situations.

Watch Tom Brady play. He often gets the ball out so quickly that there's no way it's because of a progression read. He knew where he was going before the snap. McCoy's scheme makes that impossible.

BroncoBeavis
01-16-2012, 08:03 AM
Yet he somehow managed to do it in the last 5 minutes of numerous games to win. Odd.

Don't take my words as endorsement of Tebow because thats not what it is. I'm just not willing to credit McCoy for an ineffective offense thats constantly stifled by complacent and conservative playcalling the first 56 minutes of a game.

Last few minutes of a game... McCoy's terrible scheme goes under the bus, Timmy starts looking a lot better.

CEH
01-16-2012, 08:23 AM
I don't remember him getting much in that kind of protection on Saturday. And outside of that, sending two wideouts into a defense who knows a pass is coming makes for some tough passing situations.

Watch Tom Brady play. He often gets the ball out so quickly that there's no way it's because of a progression read. He knew where he was going before the snap. McCoy's scheme makes that impossible.

I'd counter that the one read is more on Tebow's ability to process information and knowing what he can and can't execute than play calling.
You are not going to put in plays that the QB can't execute. Simple as that. This is why the team scrapped teh Orton offense and went to what Tim does best. It doesn't do a lick of good to call normal NFL plays when your QB can pull the tirgger or process a defense. 6 of 28 and we have seen several of these really ball games as far as throwing the ball. It's not always about scheme. At some point a QB has to be able to throw the ball. What you get are zelots like yourself that says all Tim needs is to bring in a Florida OC and we will be Super Bowl Champions.

Powderaddict
01-16-2012, 08:28 AM
Denver's D has some deficiencies that was made painfully clear on Saturday. Safety is still very week. Mays on Gronkowski is a nightmere. We still cannot get pressure particularly up the middle with a 4 man rush. Goodman gets abused often and regularly.

That said, Allen did not have a great day either. I don't understand rushing 3 men, which was done often. You are just basically wasting the 3 guys. They are not getting pressure, and Brady has plenty of time to get the ball to someone. And with the issues on D, you could drop 9 guys and they will still find an open guy.

The few times Denver gave the Pats trouble is when they brought 5 guys. If he's going to beat you anyways, why not take a chance and try and get pressure on him!

The execution was poor, but the gameplan was severly lacking IMO.

I can't wait till FA and the draft to see how Denver plans on filling the holes they have on defense.

BroncoBeavis
01-16-2012, 08:44 AM
Dont blame me, blame Tim Tebow, as proven by every analyst out there the boy has yet to master the underneath routes in this game. He can certainly throw a deep ball better then many young QB's out there but as the % throwing stats show he struggles when he has to drop back and throw that quick short ball in 2-3 seconds. That may well come with time but right now it is not there and it is an important facet in all if not many NFL passing packages.

Just looked at that NFC Championship game from last year where Hanie had to come in cold off the bench for Cutler.

6 passing attempts vs 4 rushing attempts on 1st down with Forte in the backfield.

Look at the struggling rookie TJ Yates in the Texans vs Baltimore game yesterday... 11 passes vs 17 runs on 1st down with Arian Foster in the backfield.

Tyler Palko's first game with the Chiefs this year after Cassel's injury...
11 runs, 14 passes on 1st down.

Name me a gameplan with a young QB that looks anything like what McCoy has been pulling. How come everyone in the NFL is an idiot other than McCoy?

BroncoBeavis
01-16-2012, 08:51 AM
I'd counter that the one read is more on Tebow's ability to process information and knowing what he can and can't execute than play calling.
You are not going to put in plays that the QB can't execute. Simple as that. This is why the team scrapped teh Orton offense and went to what Tim does best. It doesn't do a lick of good to call normal NFL plays when your QB can pull the tirgger or process a defense. 6 of 28 and we have seen several of these really ball games as far as throwing the ball. It's not always about scheme. At some point a QB has to be able to throw the ball. What you get are zelots like yourself that says all Tim needs is to bring in a Florida OC and we will be Super Bowl Champions.

We're not talking about running a normal pro set offense for the guy. But putting any run/pass option QB in a two-wide bunch-the-middle scheme is perverse. Both because it's the opposite of Tim's experience, and you're doing the defense's work for them by limiting the effectiveness of his mobility.

The choice shouldn't have to be between the Orton offense and the most unholy NFL offensive scheme seen in at least a generation.

strafen
01-16-2012, 08:54 AM
Allen has potential to be a good DC.
Remember he's an inexperienced DC.
One year under his belt will help him a great deal...

TerrElway
01-16-2012, 11:25 AM
As soon as you figure out a way to stop the Patriots' offense without an effective pass rush and undrafted/rookie/street-free agent players in more than half the secondary you should probably just apply for the job yourself.

QFT.

It's a sad reflection of the state of our economy that there are so many unemployed coaching geniuses out there.

High caliber players make coaches much better. Case in point: The mannequin in Indy. Caldwell was a genius when Manning was healthy. Now that he's been out they finally realized he was just made of plastic and set up on the sideline by ushers staring toward the field on game day.

The Broncs overachieved this year. It ended poorly, yes. But there should be just a little bit more good feeling about the boys in Orange than there seems to be.

Powderaddict
01-16-2012, 11:39 AM
QFT.

It's a sad reflection of the state of our economy that there are so many unemployed coaching geniuses out there.

High caliber players make coaches much better. Case in point: The mannequin in Indy. Caldwell was a genius when Manning was healthy. Now that he's been out they finally realized he was just made of plastic and set up on the sideline by ushers staring toward the field on game day.

The Broncs overachieved this year. It ended poorly, yes. But there should be just a little bit more good feeling about the boys in Orange than there seems to be.

Agreed.

And much of the overachievement is due to coaching IMO.

But, the last game leaves a lot to be desired. That said, this was supposed to be a mulligan/throw away season anyways, instilling a winning culture with playoff experience in invaluable. Quite a bit to build on for next year.

BroncoBeavis
01-16-2012, 11:40 AM
Nobody expected us to stop the Pats cold. 3 man rush though? Come on.

Like I said, we'll get to see how the Ravens play it on Sunday. Only 3-man rushes you'll see will be if the Ravens need prevent for some reason. Can't see Flacco getting the Ravens into that situation though.

Rohirrim
01-16-2012, 11:44 AM
I refer this thread to this thread: http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3466804&postcount=1

BabyTO
01-16-2012, 11:50 AM
QFT.

It's a sad reflection of the state of our economy that there are so many unemployed coaching geniuses out there.

High caliber players make coaches much better. Case in point: The mannequin in Indy. Caldwell was a genius when Manning was healthy. Now that he's been out they finally realized he was just made of plastic and set up on the sideline by ushers staring toward the field on game day.

The Broncs overachieved this year. It ended poorly, yes. But there should be just a little bit more good feeling about the boys in Orange than there seems to be.
"its because our players suck, our game plan was genius!" wow another john madden Hilarious!
so how come brady only tossed 2 TD passes against us just a couple weeks earlier? did i miss something? were prime ronnie lott, deion sanders, ray lewis, ed reed and dick butkus playing for us in that game? Hilarious!

TerrElway
01-16-2012, 02:43 PM
I've read the OP a couple of times, sure didn't say the players suck and the game plan was genius. But interpret however you like. Here's my thought process:

I did say "High caliber players make coaches much better".

When you have limited personnel it also limits your game plan. By nature it limits what you can do defensively against an offense. Most defenses have some sort of liability that they will try to "hide" by doing other things and trying to dictate those other things to the offense.

I agree with most posters (and likely you) that the gameplan, specifically the 3 man rush, seemed idiotic but consider Allen may have been trying to protect his secondary. A secondary that outside of Champ Bailey is below average. There are some young players out there who performed pretty well this year but it was pretty clear the game plan was to drop defenders into coverage because of their multiple wide sets and to help out their secondary.

Really it was pick your poison with Brady because if they blitz, he's also likely to pick apart the secondary. The Giants and Ravens have a front 4 that can collapse a pocket in a hurry without help from a blitz. Denver doesn't. So they chose coverage. Trying to "hide" their deficiencies in the secondary by giving them help.

As far as why did Brady throw 2 TD passes in the first game? That is a straw man argument of the first order. The Pats put 40+ on the board in that game too. They just did it in a different fashion.

By this logic you could ask "How come Denver beat KC in KC but not at home? Did I miss something? Were the players from the 70's Pittsburgh Steel Curtain playing for KC in that game?"

But I see you do agree by your last statement that better players make a team better.

What I am saying can really be broken down like this: The best coaches usually have the best players. Belichick wasn't a genius in Cleveland and Shanahan won Shanash!t without Elway and TD.

Peace my Orange Brother.

Rohirrim
01-16-2012, 02:48 PM
When Shanahan had Elway, TD, Rod Smith, Sharpe, McGaffrey, Zimmerman, Nalen, Jones, Atwater, Romanowski, Mobley, Pryce, Neil Smith, etc etc etc, he was a goddamn mastermind. ;D

BabyTO
01-16-2012, 03:17 PM
I've read the OP a couple of times, sure didn't say the players suck and the game plan was genius. But interpret however you like. Here's my thought process:

I did say "High caliber players make coaches much better".

When you have limited personnel it also limits your game plan. By nature it limits what you can do defensively against an offense. Most defenses have some sort of liability that they will try to "hide" by doing other things and trying to dictate those other things to the offense.

I agree with most posters (and likely you) that the gameplan, specifically the 3 man rush, seemed idiotic but consider Allen may have been trying to protect his secondary. A secondary that outside of Champ Bailey is below average. There are some young players out there who performed pretty well this year but it was pretty clear the game plan was to drop defenders into coverage because of their multiple wide sets and to help out their secondary.

Really it was pick your poison with Brady because if they blitz, he's also likely to pick apart the secondary. The Giants and Ravens have a front 4 that can collapse a pocket in a hurry without help from a blitz. Denver doesn't. So they chose coverage. Trying to "hide" their deficiencies in the secondary by giving them help.

As far as why did Brady throw 2 TD passes in the first game? That is a straw man argument of the first order. The Pats put 40+ on the board in that game too. They just did it in a different fashion.

By this logic you could ask "How come Denver beat KC in KC but not at home? Did I miss something? Were the players from the 70's Pittsburgh Steel Curtain playing for KC in that game?"

But I see you do agree by your last statement that better players make a team better.

What I am saying can really be broken down like this: The best coaches usually have the best players. Belichick wasn't a genius in Cleveland and Shanahan won Shana**** without Elway and TD.

Peace my Orange Brother.

scheming and gameplanning is way more important than talent. theres a reason why the most talented team in the league (eagles) couldnt even make the playoffs. theres a reason why asomugha who was one of the best corners last season now is one of the worst corners in the entire league. its not because he forgot how to play football, its because their scheme sucks and he doesnt fit in. if you have a great scheme and average players, you can win a lot of games. if you have a ****ty scheme and talented players you wont win many games. if you have a great scheme and talented players you have an elite defense. point is, in order to be successful on defense you need a great scheme. we dont have that. when you play the pats the ONE thing you DONT do is let brady sit in the pocket and drop everybody in coverage. thats the dumbest thing you could come up with. defenders can cover receivers for only so long, brady was sitting inside that pocket without having to move AT ALL, he was just standing there for 5 seconds and scanning the entire field. how the hell do you win games with that type of scheme/gameplan?

a decent coordinator would have created different ways to blitz, drop DL in coverage, zone blitzing, blitzing corners and stuff like that. brady was gonna make plays regardless, but at least try to pressure him and force him into some mistakes. if you just sit back and wait for him to make some mistakes its not gonna happen. thats where belichick raped dennis allen. that dude didnt put any effort at all into game planning last week. dont give me the "no talent" excuse. we have a lot of great players on defense. two of the best pass rushers in the league, a shutdown corner, some decent DL, a really good ILB, what else does this guy need. an all pro defense stacked with hall of famers in their prime? yeah, its gonna take a genius like lombardi to get those players to win some games.

belichick doesnt need elite players at every position in order to win bowls. in fact most patriot players are garbage, trash they picked up, guys no other teams wanted. so please spare me this "if dennis allen had all pro's at every position we would have played better". great coaches/coordinators dont need all pro's at every position to win games or at the very least not get raped. allen had no game plan, it was clear to see for everybody. game starts, defenders sit back and watch brady complete pass after pass. no adjustments were made. nothing.

guy should be fired ASAP. get a decent coordinator with a (3-4) background

Inkana7
01-16-2012, 03:42 PM
scheming and gameplanning is way more important than talent.

Nope.

Powderaddict
01-16-2012, 04:09 PM
Bad talent can be undermined by poor coaching.

Great coaching can be undermined by poor execution and poor talent.

You're not going to find sustained success without both good coaching and good talent.

TerrElway
01-16-2012, 04:35 PM
I get what you are saying BTO - but they go hand in hand - talent with coaching. Game plan with execution.

If it was all about scheme and coaching, why wouldn't Shanahan win more often than he does? Your argument about the Eagles is a point taken for the other side of the coin.

I think they got a ton of production out of what talent they had. Who was most productive on this D? The All-Pro Corner had a good year. The two pass rushers had damn good years. DJ had a solid year as did Bunkley. Who else? Bunkley was solid. There are 6 others I didn't mention. How much better was the D when Von and BDawk were healthy?

You don't need all-pro's at all positions that's true but I think most would agree the Broncos could use some serious upgrades.

You have a good point about the Pats but their D finished near the bottom of the league stat-wise and benefitted greatly from a pretty damn good offense. The same recipe got Green Bay to 15-1 before being exposed by the Giants. That's why I think the Giants are going to win it all. Peaking at the right time, very good defense capable of slowing any offense and an offense that can score as well.

Having said all that, I feel quite a bit like you do about the game planning/scheme in that Pats game (on both sides of the ball). I turned to my buddy during the game and said, "I can't figure out why everyone can make an adjustment but the Broncos".

eddie mac
01-16-2012, 07:01 PM
Just looked at that NFC Championship game from last year where Hanie had to come in cold off the bench for Cutler.

6 passing attempts vs 4 rushing attempts on 1st down with Forte in the backfield.

Look at the struggling rookie TJ Yates in the Texans vs Baltimore game yesterday... 11 passes vs 17 runs on 1st down with Arian Foster in the backfield.

Tyler Palko's first game with the Chiefs this year after Cassel's injury...
11 runs, 14 passes on 1st down.
Name me a gameplan with a young QB that looks anything like what McCoy has been pulling. How come everyone in the NFL is an idiot other than McCoy?

The common denominator in all those was that they lost and for 2 of them, lost a whole lot. McCoy had a totally different gameplan for Tebow and he went 8-5. There's no real answer out there as to who gets the credit or who gets the blame. We'll only truly know when Tebow can do all the things a good QB can and then we see how McCoy or whoever uses that. Remember that Fox is over McCoy so I'm pretty sure if he sees something in the gameplan he doesn't like, he'll change it but for now he seems on board with everything that has been done.

Off course we as fans want to see a ball controlling/exciting offense gaining points on most drives and not just going 3 and out most of the time.

BroncoBeavis
01-16-2012, 07:46 PM
The common denominator in all those was that they lost and for 2 of them, lost a whole lot. McCoy had a totally different gameplan for Tebow and he went 8-5. There's no real answer out there as to who gets the credit or who gets the blame. We'll only truly know when Tebow can do all the things a good QB can and then we see how McCoy or whoever uses that. Remember that Fox is over McCoy so I'm pretty sure if he sees something in the gameplan he doesn't like, he'll change it but for now he seems on board with everything that has been done.

Off course we as fans want to see a ball controlling/exciting offense gaining points on most drives and not just going 3 and out most of the time.

I'm sympathetic to what you're saying, although I think it's still waaay over the top. Look at what Koob did with the Texans QB mess. He didn't handcuff any of his backups like that. And he had more reason to... none of those guys are his long term guys. He was ONLY trying to win games. And he was probably more successful than anyone else.

But even taking your side of it, then the flip side of that coin is that people who believe that should be defending Tebow a lot more than they do. If you know Tebow's having his development cut down in order to try to squeeze wins, you shouldn't have any patience with people who talk about completion percentage and 3rd downs and other meaningless stuff.

In the end I don't really buy it. This scheme put Tebow behind in games more often than it put him ahead. If your gameplan to help the rookie QB is to get him behind a couple scores before letting him do his thing... that's all fail from the word go.

BabyTO
01-17-2012, 01:51 AM
I get what you are saying BTO - but they go hand in hand - talent with coaching. Game plan with execution.

If it was all about scheme and coaching, why wouldn't Shanahan win more often than he does? Your argument about the Eagles is a point taken for the other side of the coin.

I think they got a ton of production out of what talent they had. Who was most productive on this D? The All-Pro Corner had a good year. The two pass rushers had damn good years. DJ had a solid year as did Bunkley. Who else? Bunkley was solid. There are 6 others I didn't mention. How much better was the D when Von and BDawk were healthy?

You don't need all-pro's at all positions that's true but I think most would agree the Broncos could use some serious upgrades.

You have a good point about the Pats but their D finished near the bottom of the league stat-wise and benefitted greatly from a pretty damn good offense. The same recipe got Green Bay to 15-1 before being exposed by the Giants. That's why I think the Giants are going to win it all. Peaking at the right time, very good defense capable of slowing any offense and an offense that can score as well.

Having said all that, I feel quite a bit like you do about the game planning/scheme in that Pats game (on both sides of the ball). I turned to my buddy during the game and said, "I can't figure out why everyone can make an adjustment but the Broncos".

our defense finished near the bottom of the league as well, despite of the all pro type players we have. look at the pats, all they have is maybe wilfork and maybe mayo, i wouldnt even say mayo since he might be one of the worst starting ILB/MLB in the afc with all the talent at MLB the afc has. and i dont see him being better than DJ either. so thats all they have. the rest of that defense is just garbage or just guys they drafted high that clearly turned out to be busts. kyle arrington was with the buccs and he couldnt make their team. couple years later he's NE's starting CB and a year later he leads the league in INTs. their OLB (ninkovich) who destroyed franklin got cut multiple times until he landed in NE, he couldnt even make it as a special teamer elsewhere let alone backup or even a starter. well he's a starter now in NE and he was way more productive than dumervil was last season. andre carter had 2 sacks last year, gets cut by the redskins and then he has 10 sacks for the pats. CB molden was a special teamer in houston, in NE he started a couple of games and had as many picks as goodman had in 18 games. and the list goes on.

yeah their defense overall is pretty bad (they still kicked our O-Lines ass) which is understandable considering brady always scores points and makes other offenses throw the ball the entire game and then teams get a lot of garbage yards, they play sort of a bend but dont break defense, give up a lot of short catches but no long touchdown plays and they only allow 21 points per game which is really good actually (we allowed 24) etc etc...but just look at the players they have to work with. its pure garbage. imagine how bad that defense would be had allen coordinated them. they would have lost every game by 80+ points. and imagine how good our defense would be had belichick coordinated it. it would have been a lot better, you cant tell me it wouldn't have made a difference. i doubt a that he could have turned it into an elite defense this season, but im 95% sure our defense would have finished somewhere in the top 10. but we wont know for sure until allen gets canned and they hire a decent DC with a 3-4 background. if allen leaves and i hope he does, and our defense finishes much better next season you'll know why. but i guess then people will talk about how our defense got MUCH better because the players played better or because we added 1-2 more starters. stuff like that doesnt turn a defense around. and players only play well when they're used in the right scheme that fits their style. and that goes back to coaching again.

but at least we agree partially.