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View Full Version : Defending Tebow on Philly sports radio


TonyR
01-10-2012, 04:09 PM
So Philadelphia sports radio's leading afternoon drive show does this segment called "Sound Off" every day where listeners leave messages and they pick a few and air them and then the host reacts. The host, Mike Missanelli, is a Tebow hater and he got blasted both on the show and on Sound Off yesterday since Tebow played well and the Broncos won. So I called in this morning and gave him some more hell. They edited out about 1/3 of what I said (in particular I commented about how Vick looks prettier playing QB and has prettier stats but Tebow's the one who gets it done more often). If you want to hear it I linked it below. I'm the first caller.

http://www.975thefanatic.com/features/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10333960

vancejohnson82
01-10-2012, 04:13 PM
thats so funny...I called into that show after we beat the Jets and argued with Missenelli too...we actually had a pretty good back and forth. He told me to call back at the end of the season because "we all were going to see how it ended up"

TonyR
01-10-2012, 04:21 PM
His reply to my message is stupid because I didn't say Tebow wins every time like he said. I said I'd take him every time over Vick.

Here's Monday's version where a lot of people blasted him defending Tebow.

http://www.975thefanatic.com/features/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10333518

Steve Prefontaine
01-10-2012, 04:25 PM
I like Missanelli and the Fan is overall a good station. But he's a stubborn bitch and can't be convinced once he makes up his mind. Tebow could win a Super Bowl and Missanelli would still bash him...it's that bad.

Steve Prefontaine
01-10-2012, 04:26 PM
His reply to my message is stupid because I didn't say Tebow wins every time like he said. I said I'd take him every time over Vick.

Here's Monday's version where a lot of people blasted him defending Tebow.

http://www.975thefanatic.com/features/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10333518

You're right, it didn't make sense and he didn't listen to your point.

Bronco Boy
01-10-2012, 04:43 PM
His reply to my message is stupid because I didn't say Tebow wins every time like he said. I said I'd take him every time over Vick.

Here's Monday's version where a lot of people blasted him defending Tebow.

http://www.975thefanatic.com/features/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10333518

What a douche. He twisted your words around. Oh well, that's his job I guess.

gunns
01-10-2012, 04:50 PM
Anyone who would pick Tebow over Vick is stupid? Until he accomplishes something you can't say that? What the hell has Vick accomplished?

While I was listening to that I had a thought....the Eagles are hanging onto Reid? Good.

OrangeSe7en
01-10-2012, 05:13 PM
His response was lame. But that's pretty much sports talk radio.

BroncoFanatic
01-10-2012, 05:15 PM
His reply to my message is stupid because I didn't say Tebow wins every time like he said. I said I'd take him every time over Vick.

Here's Monday's version where a lot of people blasted him defending Tebow.

http://www.975thefanatic.com/features/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10333518

I heard your call, and I was PISSED at how he took you out of context. I switched over to the other station, where they were complementory towards Tebow. Misseneli is getting as bad as Eskin was

Funny how both major sports stations in Philly are talking about Tebow though, lol

The Moops
01-10-2012, 05:16 PM
I live in philly area and usually I like Missenelli but he just hatea tebow. The best is when he replaces Tony Bruno who loves Tebow during their switch over. Bruno is the only one who makes Missenelli stumble about Tebow.Today Missenelli said Tebw isn't a winner bc Broncos lost 3 in a row. Douche

SJ Bronco
01-10-2012, 05:20 PM
I actually like Mike Vick, and a lot like Tebow, he is having to learn how to be more efficient as a pocket QB, but Mike Vick hasn't accomplished anything. In fact, I see lots of parallels between his career and Tebows. Came into the league with a lot of fan fare and acclaim, as well as dissenters, came out on fire, got his team into the playoffs on his back early on. Hopefully Tebow continues to work hard and doesn't fall off the wagon like Vick. (I don't mean the dog fighting stuff. I doubt Tebow will be caught doing that). You can also see the same thing with Vince Young. Starts strong, fizzles out. That style of QB takes a lot of abuse and it's hard to maintain, that's why I like seeing Tebow work so hard on his passing skills.

barryr
01-10-2012, 05:23 PM
He is like most who do not want to give Tebow any credit. They are bound and determined to believe Tebow can't make it and even get emotional about it, just as some on ESPN do. There are question right now about Colt McCoy, but he won't illicit as much emotion over those believing he isn't a starting QB in the NFL. The Tebow doubters seem to have some vested interest in Tebow failing, whatever that could be.

Bronx33
01-10-2012, 05:26 PM
I actually like Mike Vick, and a lot like Tebow, he is having to learn how to be more efficient as a pocket QB, but Mike Vick hasn't accomplished anything. In fact, I see lots of parallels between his career and Tebows. Came into the league with a lot of fan fare and acclaim, as well as dissenters, came out on fire, got his team into the playoffs on his back early on. Hopefully Tebow continues to work hard and doesn't fall off the wagon like Vick. (I don't mean the dog fighting stuff. I doubt Tebow will be caught doing that). You can also see the same thing with Vince Young. Starts strong, fizzles out. That style of QB takes a lot of abuse and it's hard to maintain, that's why I like seeing Tebow work so hard on his passing skills.


Will you let him dog sit for you?

SJ Bronco
01-10-2012, 05:44 PM
Will you let him dog sit for you?

Actually I would. I don't have a dog.

TonyR
01-10-2012, 06:24 PM
Anyone who would pick Tebow over Vick is stupid? Until he accomplishes something you can't say that? What the hell has Vick accomplished?


I don't have a problem with someone making the argument that they'd take Vick over Tebow because you can certainly make some valid points in Vick's favor. I just disagree with how he completely dismisses Tebow and his reasons against him are completely lame.

TonyR
01-10-2012, 06:26 PM
Funny how both major sports stations in Philly are talking about Tebow though, lol

First thing Monday morning it was pretty much the only topic, and this is an Eagles crazed town that rarely talks about other teams. Ray Didinger was on and he's really good. They were saying how their favorite part of the game may have been DT's stiff arm on the winning TD.

cutthemdown
01-10-2012, 06:29 PM
Vick though seems to twitch around the field and get smashed at the end of plays a lot. Tebow just hasn't taken very many hard hits IMO.

Kaylore
01-10-2012, 07:10 PM
Vick though seems to twitch around the field and get smashed at the end of plays a lot. Tebow just hasn't taken very many hard hits IMO.

Not sure if serious....

kappys
01-10-2012, 07:58 PM
Not sure if serious....

Tebow runs a little more like a RB - he sees inside lanes well, falls forward, and gets low when he is about to be hit and doesn't take as much punishment as you would think.

Vick runs like a punt returner - electric, elusive, much more dangerous in the open field and with incredible burst, but he takes some big shots.

Steve Sewell
01-10-2012, 08:55 PM
Sounds like a fun show. There's just something hilarious about how cynical and sarcastic Philadelphians can be. At least the host takes it in stride even though his deflections are comical.

R8R H8R
01-10-2012, 09:35 PM
His reply to my message is stupid because I didn't say Tebow wins every time like he said. I said I'd take him every time over Vick.

Here's Monday's version where a lot of people blasted him defending Tebow.

http://www.975thefanatic.com/features/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10333518

Not stupid, but dishonest. He knows exactly what you said, but chose to do what political ads do, change the meaning of one's words by either knowingly distorting your meaning, or by taking words out of context.

Also, the gesture of giving callers a chance to "sound off" loses any credibility if he doesn't give a caller the last word. This is the kind of guy that is so arrogant and has such an inflated opinion of his "opinion", I don't see him ever owning up to the fact that he may be wrong, even if the Broncos figured out a way to win this upcoming SB.

Doggcow
01-11-2012, 01:46 AM
I like Missanelli and the Fan is overall a good station. But he's a stubborn b**** and can't be convinced once he makes up his mind. Tebow could win a Super Bowl and Missanelli would still bash him...it's that bad.

No dude, get it right, it'll be if Tebow wins a Superbowl, he can't win ANOTHER superbowl.

Bronco Rob
01-11-2012, 02:44 AM
Let me see finer standards correctly. A Philadelphia sports talk radio host is criticizing a quarterback for winning a playoff game.




Hilarious!

jhns
01-11-2012, 04:50 AM
What a joke...

I hate losing which is why I'm done with the Tebow experiment. He failed miserably the last two weeks. He came up really small on Sunday and got outplayed by Kyle Orton. Winning 7 of 8 got a lot of people thinking that Tebow played well but the reality is he never really played all that well other than some bursts here and there. That's not going to get it done in the NFL. You need your QB to be consistently good. I don't see any evidence that Tebow can be that guy. I was rooting for the kid too but reality has set in. You keep clinging to the mirage.

Along with "he has been exposed, the defense is winning the games" and "Leaf and Russel are better passers!"

You will be trashing Tebow, and claiming he doesn't win, if he has another bad game. You are just as dumb as that host.

Jay3
01-11-2012, 05:16 AM
What a joke...



Along with "he has been exposed, the defense is winning the games" and "Leaf and Russel are better passers!"

You will be trashing Tebow, and claiming he doesn't win, of he has another bad game. You are just as dumb as that host.

Go easy on him, maybe he hasn't been watching football for very long. It's the only explanation I can think of for all the fans that were able to completely overlook the first trip to the playoffs in 6 years based on one football game.

Bad games happen in the NFL. Lots of them. Tebow was just trollin' to teach fans not to doubt him again.

The story ends the same -- everybody ends up respecting Tebow. Just a matter of how quick you want to get with the program.

TonyR
01-11-2012, 05:58 AM
What a joke...

Along with "he has been exposed, the defense is winning the games" and "Leaf and Russel are better passers!"

You will be trashing Tebow, and claiming he doesn't win, of he has another bad game. You are just as dumb as that host.

A few things on this...
1) Clearly I was frustrated after losing those last three games, and the last two games in particular made my doubts even stronger. Anyone who watched those games, and loves the Broncos like I do, should have been both frustrated and concerned. I'm a fan, and this is what fans do. People like jhns, on the other hand, are insecure and far too invested in being right to be honest with themselves or others.
2) I still have strong doubts about Tebow. Neither this nor my frustration with him at the end of the regular season means I don't root for him.
3) It's one thing to criticize Tebow after he plays poorly and loses, quite another to be so dismissive of the guy after he looks good and wins a playoff game.
4) Just like you can criticize your family and others can't, I'm much more permissive of Broncos fans bashing the team than fans of other teams. I live in the Philadelphia market so I hate Philadelphia teams and am very sensitive of their fans bashing my teams.
5) As said earlier in this thread, I have no problem with people making an argument for Vick over Tebow. A good argument can certainly be made on this point. But this radio host didn't do it, and I called him out on it.
6) The real joke is you calling me a "hater" while if you could see my facebook page, and my email exchanges with friends and coworkers throughout the season, and see all the texts and emails and posts and congratulations I got from friends and relatives after the win on Sunday, you'd have no doubt about my Broncos fandom.

jhns
01-11-2012, 06:12 AM
I don't doubt your Bronco fandom. You are a Tebow hater though.

No rational fan thought he was finished after leading the second worst team in the league to the playoffs. That was in his first year starting, after being given a 1-4 record to work with. Only an idiot gives up on a young player because of a couple bad games...

Your posts prove that you are a hater. Just look up Russell and Luck. Tell me what they did to prove they were better passers. Explain to me why Tebow should be more developed than any first year starter that has ever played. Do you think you can find guys that haven't had bad games?

You are a clown.

BroncoFanatic
01-11-2012, 06:52 AM
Pardon me for interrupting this yeast-infection-inspired piss fest and commenting on topic...

I did enjoy that, right after your call, Sal Palantonio was on, and hammered Missoneli on the Tebow subject. Made a bet with him, taking the 13.5 points. Damn near took the bet straight up for the win, but backed off at the end.

Sal thinks we stand a good chance of winning. Not that it matters, but at least some recognition is nice

:bronxrox:

Spider
01-11-2012, 07:08 AM
Tebow runs a little more like a RB - he sees inside lanes well, falls forward, and gets low when he is about to be hit and doesn't take as much punishment as you would think.

Vick runs like a punt returner - electric, elusive, much more dangerous in the open field and with incredible burst, but he takes some big shots.

Noticed this as well .....

Mile High Mojoe
01-11-2012, 07:09 AM
So Philadelphia sports radio's leading afternoon drive show does this segment called "Sound Off" every day where listeners leave messages and they pick a few and air them and then the host reacts. The host, Mike Missanelli, is a Tebow hater and he got blasted both on the show and on Sound Off yesterday since Tebow played well and the Broncos won. So I called in this morning and gave him some more hell. They edited out about 1/3 of what I said (in particular I commented about how Vick looks prettier playing QB and has prettier stats but Tebow's the one who gets it done more often). If you want to hear it I linked it below. I'm the first caller.

http://www.975thefanatic.com/features/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10333960

Itís awesome to hear you say such nice things about Tebow and defend him. In Oct. and Nov. you were one of the biggest doubters on the board. Cool to see that you have converted to Tebowmania.

Nice rant and good point about Vick BTW.

Butterscotch Stallion
01-11-2012, 08:27 AM
I don't doubt your Bronco fandom. You are a Tebow hater though.

No rational fan thought he was finished after leading the second worst team in the league to the playoffs. That was in his first year starting, after being given a 1-4 record to work with. Only an idiot gives up on a young player because of a couple bad games...

Your posts prove that you are a hater. Just look up Russell and Luck. Tell me what they did to prove they were better passers. Explain to me why Tebow should be more developed than any first year starter that has ever played. Do you think you can find guys that haven't had bad games?

You are a clown.

Wow. pwnage.

Ouch.

Kaylore
01-11-2012, 09:05 AM
Tebow deserved criticism after the Bills and especially Chiefs game. The defense held the team to one TD and if Tebow doesn't take a stupid sack and doesn't fumble the ball in field goal range we win. That's to say nothing of his refusal to throw the ball down field in that game.

I'm not sure how many people "gave up" on him after that game, but he played like absolute dog crap and directly contributed to what was potentially a season ending loss.

The staff spoke to him and he upped his game. Accusing anyone who criticizes a player's performance after a bad game of being a bad fan is stupid.

Butterscotch Stallion
01-11-2012, 09:12 AM
Tebow deserved criticism after the Bills and especially Chiefs game. The defense held the team to one TD and if Tebow doesn't take a stupid sack and doesn't fumble the ball in field goal range we win. That's to say nothing of his refusal to throw the ball down field in that game.

I'm not sure how many people "gave up" on him after that game, but he played like absolute dog crap and directly contributed to what was potentially a season ending loss.

The staff spoke to him and he upped his game. Accusing anyone who criticizes a player's performance after a bad game of being a bad fan is stupid.

Agreed. if only that happened. I lurk a lot...many "tebowners" were critical.

nothing wrong with that...

Tony gave up. read the post you are refferring to. it will help things to make sense for you.

jhns
01-11-2012, 09:13 AM
Agreed. if only that happened. I lurk a lot...many "tebowners" were critical.

nothing wrong with that...

Tony gave up. read the post you are refferring to. it will help things to make sense for you.

Ignore him. I upset him too many times. He can't think clearly if I am involved with the thread.

BroncoBeavis
01-11-2012, 09:16 AM
Tebow deserved criticism after the Bills and especially Chiefs game. The defense held the team to one TD and if Tebow doesn't take a stupid sack and doesn't fumble the ball in field goal range we win. That's to say nothing of his refusal to throw the ball down field in that game.

I'm not sure how many people "gave up" on him after that game, but he played like absolute dog crap and directly contributed to what was potentially a season ending loss.

The staff spoke to him and he upped his game. Accusing anyone who criticizes a player's performance after a bad game of being a bad fan is stupid.

There's a considerable difference between criticizing a kid's performance over a couple of rough games and saying "time to send in the ol' Cleveland Browns castoff"

Rookies struggle. Often for stretches longer than 2 games. It's nothing short of a MIRACLE that we put in the rookie, handed him a 1-4 record and even had an OPPORTUNITY to sniff at the playoffs. Had he lost a couple of the earlier games that he SHOULD have lost, NONE of it would've mattered. Instead we hold Timmy to a higher standard than guys like Gabbert or Bradford because he was inconsistent, whereas those other guys just sucked all the way through.

And none of that even touches the fact that we give the kid next to zero attempts in non-clutch settings (ie first half) and then expect him to win every game with a gun to his head every week. I've never seen a rookie put through this kind of meat grinder.

TonyR
01-11-2012, 09:19 AM
Tony gave up.

I "gave up" on Tebow, yes. He was that bad in those last two games. I still have doubts. And as I've said since then, if he was bad again this past Sunday I bet the team would have been considerably more likely to spend significant resources on acquiring a likely replacement this offseason. But none of this means I hate Tebow (I don't) or that I root against him (I don't) or that I'm not a Broncos fan (I most certainly am).

jhns
01-11-2012, 09:21 AM
I "gave up" on Tebow, yes. He was that bad in those last two games. I still have doubts. And as I've said since then, if he was bad again this past Sunday I bet the team would have been considerably more likely to spend significant resources on acquiring a likely replacement this offseason. But none of this means I hate Tebow (I don't) or that I root against him (I don't) or that I'm not a Broncos fan (I most certainly am).

You gave up on a young guy that brought a ton more good than bad to this team. Then you claim you aren't a hater. That sure makes sense!

Not only this, but you completely lied as you bashed him. Go ahead and explain how Leaf and Russell have proven to be better passers. I'm still waiting on that.

TonyR
01-11-2012, 09:21 AM
I've never seen a rookie put through this kind of meat grinder.

I completely agree. And he's handled it extremely well. As Herm Edwards said on Mike & Mike this morning, he's taken the road of humility and there isn't a lot of traffic on that road.

Garcia Bronco
01-11-2012, 09:24 AM
Early we were talking about gay things you can do as a sports fan. Calling into a Radio show to tell off some loser with a sweet gig was number 4.

BroncoBeavis
01-11-2012, 09:27 AM
I "gave up" on Tebow, yes. He was that bad in those last two games. I still have doubts. And as I've said since then, if he was bad again this past Sunday I bet the team would have been considerably more likely to spend significant resources on acquiring a likely replacement this offseason. But none of this means I hate Tebow (I don't) or that I root against him (I don't) or that I'm not a Broncos fan (I most certainly am).

I think there's another category of people in all this that we probably unfairly label as 'haters'

There are probably a lot of people out there who just have expectations that I'd call unrealistic.

jhns
01-11-2012, 09:29 AM
I think there's another category of people in all this that we probably unfairly label as 'haters'

There are probably a lot of people out there who just have expectations that I'd call unrealistic.

Which doesn't include tony, who bashes Tebow with some pretty retarded comments.

Butterscotch Stallion
01-11-2012, 09:32 AM
I "gave up" on Tebow, yes. He was that bad in those last two games. I still have doubts. And as I've said since then, if he was bad again this past Sunday I bet the team would have been considerably more likely to spend significant resources on acquiring a likely replacement this offseason. But none of this means I hate Tebow (I don't) or that I root against him (I don't) or that I'm not a Broncos fan (I most certainly am).

Hate is a strong word, but on a message board, it is slightly less extreme.

What and how you have posted is "hating". (as defined in Webster's internet dictionary)

just own it. Kaylore should too. it isnt the Tebowners that need to understand the difference between critique and "hating" .....

it's the haters.


Tebow has started 15 games and is 9-6 with a playoff win already.

that is beyond impressive and although he has holes in his game, to look past that astounding performance is indeed hate. or stupidity.

you can decide that for yourselves.

SleepingTiger
01-11-2012, 10:04 AM
Originally Posted by TonyR http://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3444216#post3444216)
I hate losing which is why I'm done with the Tebow experiment. He failed miserably the last two weeks. He came up really small on Sunday and got outplayed by Kyle Orton. Winning 7 of 8 got a lot of people thinking that Tebow played well but the reality is he never really played all that well other than some bursts here and there. That's not going to get it done in the NFL. You need your QB to be consistently good. I don't see any evidence that Tebow can be that guy. I was rooting for the kid too but reality has set in. You keep clinging to the mirage.


I hate it when bronco fans bash each other, but you can't deny these words... "I'm done" "clinging to the mirage". To make it worse, you went on the radio saying you would take Tebow over Vick any day and give off the impression that you were a Tebow faithful all the way. I understand you were extremely frustrated and probably said more than need to be. However, you have to understand that the Tebow faithful took a bashing after the chiefs game, now they are just getting a chance to bash back. You were wrong, just eat some crow, admit you were wrong and welcome back. I was like you too, i just didn't express on the mane like you did and I happily ate my crow. No biggie... no one is perfect.

Kaylore
01-11-2012, 10:16 AM
Agreed. if only that happened. I lurk a lot...many "tebowners" were critical.

nothing wrong with that...

Tony gave up. read the post you are refferring to. it will help things to make sense for you.

First, great to see a lurker posting!

Second, everyone is entitled to a post-loss melt down. Obviously saying "he's done" was premature, but Tony was clearly upset by what could have been a season ending loss. I don't think Tony needs to wear the eternal badge of shame forever because of a post he made in a moment of anger and disappointment.

Kaylore
01-11-2012, 10:17 AM
Hate is a strong word, but on a message board, it is slightly less extreme.

What and how you have posted is "hating". (as defined in Webster's internet dictionary)

just own it. Kaylore should too.

Should own what? I stand by everything I said about Tebow after the Chiefs game. He played like crap.

Or does that make me a "hater" now? Is that where you're going with this?

Jekyll15Hyde
01-11-2012, 10:18 AM
Tebow deserved criticism after the Bills and especially Chiefs game. The defense held the team to one TD and if Tebow doesn't take a stupid sack and doesn't fumble the ball in field goal range we win. That's to say nothing of his refusal to throw the ball down field in that game.

I'm not sure how many people "gave up" on him after that game, but he played like absolute dog crap and directly contributed to what was potentially a season ending loss.

The staff spoke to him and he upped his game. Accusing anyone who criticizes a player's performance after a bad game of being a bad fan is jhizz.

FYP

jhns
01-11-2012, 10:39 AM
Poor little haters.

Stop acting like idiots and you wouldn't have these problems...

Butterscotch Stallion
01-11-2012, 10:47 AM
Should own what? I stand by everything I said about Tebow after the Chiefs game. He played like crap.

Or does that make me a "hater" now? Is that where you're going with this?

Thought it was clear. you do know that everything we post is on record? like when you started a poll after the kc game comparing stats from a guy in his 14th start to veteran qbs.

is that just critique? I think actual critique would have been to compare.a guy in his 14th start to.other qbs in their 14th starts..

thats what fair critique is by the way. just thought you should know how transparant you are.

jhns
01-11-2012, 10:47 AM
First, great to see a lurker posting!

Second, everyone is entitled to a post-loss melt down. Obviously saying "he's done" was premature, but Tony was clearly upset by what could have been a season ending loss. I don't think Tony needs to wear the eternal badge of shame forever because of a post he made in a moment of anger and disappointment.

Haters that bash players who have been a huge positive for this franchise, deserve to be laughed at. You hate good things that hapoen to the Broncos, I will hate on you. It is only fair.

TonyR
01-11-2012, 12:25 PM
LOL

Forgive me Tebow for I have sinned.

OrangeSe7en
01-11-2012, 12:31 PM
The thing about it is, and people keep overlooking this, Tebow is, for all intents and purposes, still a rookie. He hasn't even had 16 starts yet. But simply by replacing Orton with Tebow, the close games (and most games in the NFL are close) have suddenly been a success. Don't tell me about stats. The ability to keep your nerve and pull out close games as a rookie is a huge asset. And lets not pretend like Tebow hasn't improved as a passer or can't pass. In Brady's first year as a starter, he only averaged 190 something yards passing. Brady wasn't Brady in his first year. But the ability to perform under pressure is a huge asset.

jhns
01-11-2012, 12:31 PM
LOL

Forgive me Tebow for I have sinned.

Are you ever going to back your take that Russell and Leaf have proven to be better passers? You can even exclude what Tebow just did as you make your case...

jhns
01-11-2012, 12:33 PM
The thing about it is, and people keep overlooking this, Tebow is, for all intents and purposes, still a rookie. He hasn't even had 16 starts yet. But simply by replacing Orton with Tebow, the close games (and most games in the NFL are close) have suddenly been a success. Don't tell me about stats. The ability to keep your nerve and pull out close games as a rookie is a huge asset. And lets not pretend like Tebow hasn't improved as a passer or can't pass. In Brady's first year as a starter, he only averaged 190 something yards passing. Brady wasn't Brady in his first year. But the ability to perform under pressure is a huge asset.

According to tony, there is no way Tebow improved if he had a bad game. Sorry, hater facts are hater facts...

TonyR
01-11-2012, 12:35 PM
Are you ever going to back your take that Russell and Leaf have proven to be better passers? You can even exclude what Tebow just did as you make your case...

I'm going to be honest, I pulled up their numbers and they were a lot worse than I expected. But to be completely fair Timmy's aren't much, if any, better. He still has a lot to prove in the passing dept, and he'll be given the chance to prove it after this past Sunday's performance.

jhns
01-11-2012, 12:38 PM
I'm going to be honest, I pulled up their numbers and they were a lot worse than I expected. But to be completely fair Timmy's aren't much, if any, better. He still has a lot to prove in the passing dept, and he'll be given the chance to prove it after this past Sunday's performance.

Of course he has to still improve, just as every young QB does...

His numbers are far better just based on TDs and interceptions. He is outperforming them in throwing, while being extremely conservative and running a lot.

I have no clue how you could watch those guys and think they were better passers than Tebow.

BroncoBeavis
01-11-2012, 12:52 PM
LOL

Forgive me Tebow for I have sinned.

You know, the thing is this is a discussion board. Discussion is the whole point. It's not like I should go around expecting apologies from people for what the believe or what they used to believe. I don't even expect them to tell me that they were wrong about anything or everything. The back and forth is what it's really all about.

The only thing I don't have any patience for is people goalpost shifting or continuing to cling to arguments they made in the past in spite of all evidence to the contrary. They'll keep defending their old takes 'till the day they die simply because they're incapable of ever thinking of themselves as being wrong.

jhns
01-11-2012, 01:02 PM
Of course he has to still improve, just as every young QB does...

His numbers are far better just based on TDs and interceptions. He is outperforming them in throwing, while being extremely conservative and running a lot.

I have no clue how you could watch those guys and think they were better passers than Tebow.

I'm not really arguing with you still, tony. I just want to point out one thing about Tebow and his completion percentage. While his % is not good, he also attempts far more low percentage throws than any other QB I am finding.

Here are a list of notable QBs, their total number of passing attempts, and the number of attempts over 31 yards(from ESPN.com splits).

Tim Tebow: 271 total, 26 of 31+

Tom Brady: 611 total, 15 of 31+

Drew Brees: 657 total, 21 of 31+

Aaron Rodgers: 502 total, 20 of 31+

That is a list of some pretty good deep ball throwers too. I think this needs to be considered when talking about the young QBs completion percentage. Yes, he still needs to improve his percentage on throws of every distance.

Kaylore
01-11-2012, 01:15 PM
Thought it was clear. you do know that everything we post is on record? like when you started a poll after the kc game comparing stats from a guy in his 14th start to veteran qbs.

is that just critique? I think actual critique would have been to compare.a guy in his 14th start to.other qbs in their 14th starts..

thats what fair critique is by the way. just thought you should know how transparant you are.

You're really butt hurt because I pointed out if Orton had the kind of crappy game that Tebow did he would have probably been literally murdered by the fan base?

Alright then, let's play it "your way." I'll put up the numbers of Tebow compared to other QB's of varying skill level in their 14th start.

Tebow: 6 of 22 of 60 yards. 1 interception 1 fumble. No TD's 16 yards rushing.


Tom Brady: 11 of 19 108 yards, 1 TD (sacked 3 times) Beat Miami
Tony Romo: 22 of 33 309 yards 3 TD's, 1 rushing TD 1 interception
Vinny Testaverde: 22 of 52 305 yards 1 TD 2 Interceptions
Jim Everett: 20 of 26 for 324 yards 2 TD and 1 interception
Jake Plummer: 13 of 24 106 yards 1 TD 1 interception (beat Baltimore)
Kyle Orton: 17of 35 207 yards no TD's no interceptions. (in Pitt they did manage 9 points)
JP Losman: 15 of 24 164 yards, no TD's no interceptions
Ryan Leaf: 16 of 26 165 yards no TD's, 1 int
Peyton Manning: 17 of 26 206 yards 3 TD's and 0 interceptions
Matt Ryan: 24 of 33 317 yards 1 TD 1 interception
Akili Smith: 2 of 9 22 yards. Bengals over the Broncos. 31-21



So here is a relatively good mix of different QB's at various skill levels and their stats from their 14th game starting. Some had 14 starts in their rookie years. Others had been in awhile like Tebow.

Obviously most have pretty average numbers. Virtually all are better than what Tebow was able to do against the Chiefs two weeks ago. Strangely, the one player who's stats Tebow's are most similar is the mighty Akili Smith. Even Ryan Leaf was more prolific in his 14th start.

Tebow's performance against the Chiefs was inexcusable and given this collection of data, I'm surprised even more people didn't write him off after that kind of game. Good QB's tend to play better by week 10. Tebow had regressed and showed no signs of coming out of it. It was easily one of the worst performances of any QB for the Broncos and in a big game.

If pointing out a player needs to play better makes me a "hater" in your eyes, then fine. I wear it gladly. For me a hater is someone who rips on everything someone has done, and nothing is good enough. I have not done that. I have praised Tebow when he played well and as a Bronco fan, I will root for him to play well every game.

Not criticizing a player's poor performance doesn't make you a "better fan" than me or anyone else. And demanding more production from your players doesn't make someone a hater.

jhns
01-11-2012, 01:17 PM
LOL

That is the **** you haters keep coming with as you cry about being called haters... Just dumb.

BroncoBeavis
01-11-2012, 01:27 PM
You're really butt hurt because I pointed out if Orton had the kind of crappy game that Tebow did he would have probably been literally murdered by the fan base?

What you really need to do is go back and look at a couple of KO's game at his end of the line last year. Look at HIS last game vs KC and also his game vs Arizona. Orton DID have those kinds of games, and he'd been around for a long time. These years should really be the peak of his career, so bad rookie style performances aren't quite as easy to let go, especially when they coincide with 3 wins in 13 games.

jhns
01-11-2012, 01:30 PM
What you really need to do is go back and look at a couple of KO's game at his end of the line last year. Look at HIS last game vs KC and also his game vs Arizona. Orton DID have those kinds of games, and he'd been around for a long time. These years should really be the peak of his career, so bad rookie style performances aren't quite as easy to let go, especially when they coincide with 3 wins in 13 games.

Haters gonna hate. Tony uses the same argument. We should judge a first year starter the exact same as we judge a first year starter. They clearly aren't haters as they use these sped kid arguments...

Also, it should be noted that Kaylore is so smart that he can't even count to 14...

Punisher
01-11-2012, 01:37 PM
I live in philly I listening to Mike Missanelli when i get out of work everyday and he trashes Tebow all the time

Butterscotch Stallion
01-11-2012, 02:05 PM
Edit..my bad kaylore...I see I said 14th...sorry. I meant 14 as a whole.


only an idiot would think comparing a single start would make a case.

you should compare the whole 15...thats what a non hater would do.

jhns
01-11-2012, 02:10 PM
Edit..my bad kaylore...I see I said 14th...sorry. I meant 14 as a whole.


only an idiot would think comparing a single start would make a case.

you should compare the whole 15...thats what a non hater would do.

He proved to be an idiot anyways. Orton was 2/10 for 12 yards, in his 14th start. Dude can't count to 14...

Butterscotch Stallion
01-11-2012, 02:17 PM
He proved to be an idiot anyways. Orton was 2/10 for 12 yards, in his 14th start. Dude can't count to 14...

Hate can be a powerful drug.

Kaylore
01-11-2012, 02:32 PM
What you really need to do is go back and look at a couple of KO's game at his end of the line last year. Look at HIS last game vs KC and also his game vs Arizona. Orton DID have those kinds of games, and he'd been around for a long time. These years should really be the peak of his career, so bad rookie style performances aren't quite as easy to let go, especially when they coincide with 3 wins in 13 games.

Don't mistake my arguments as an endorsement of Orton in any measure.

Regardless, it is clear to me the majority of the people in this thread are typical Teboner retards, where if you don't worship everything he does and bother to criticize one of the most pathetic performances of any Bronco QB then you are a hater. I believe I have been accused in another thread of being a religious bigot as well.

Well I'm not, but God himself couldn't convince all of you. I will continue to criticize poor performances of Broncos - Especially in big games like the Chiefs game. If a few idiots want to call me hater for that, I won't lose sleep on it.

Butterscotch, have a nice day. :)

Butterscotch Stallion
01-11-2012, 02:35 PM
Don't mistake my arguments as an endorsement of Orton in any measure.

Regardless, it is clear to me the majority of the people in this thread are typical Teboner retards, where if you don't worship everything he does and bother to criticize one of the most pathetic performances of any Bronco QB then you are a hater. I believe I have been accused in another thread of being a religious bigot as well.

Well I'm not, but God himself couldn't convince all of you. I will continue to criticize poor performances of Broncos - Especially in big games like the Chiefs game. If a few idiots want to call me hater for that, I won't lose sleep on it.

Butterscotch, have a nice day. :)


you too.

jhns
01-11-2012, 02:38 PM
Don't mistake my arguments as an endorsement of Orton in any measure.

Regardless, it is clear to me the majority of the people in this thread are typical Teboner retards, where if you don't worship everything he does and bother to criticize one of the most pathetic performances of any Bronco QB then you are a hater. I believe I have been accused in another thread of being a religious bigot as well.

Well I'm not, but God himself couldn't convince all of you. I will continue to criticize poor performances of Broncos - Especially in big games like the Chiefs game. If a few idiots want to call me hater for that, I won't lose sleep on it.

Butterscotch, have a nice day. :)

LOL

Look like an idiot and try to spin it...

He laughs at you for crying that people don't treat a first year starter like a seven year vet. Now you claim the argument is just that everyone refused to criticize the first year starter for a bad game... So intelligent. Both points are pretty stupid. Then, what can we expect from someone that can't count to 14?

No one has been called a hater for being critical. Not one person. It is only when you come with extremely stupid **** to hate, that you are called a hater. "But Kyle Orton!". Yeah, he failed hard dumbass...

jhns
01-11-2012, 02:44 PM
Also, if you aren't a Teboner, you aren't a Bronco fan.


"I am a fan of the Broncos. I hate all their players though! Especially the ones helping them win!"

BroncoBeavis
01-11-2012, 02:50 PM
Don't mistake my arguments as an endorsement of Orton in any measure

But this is what you said:

You're really butt hurt because I pointed out if Orton had the kind of crappy game that Tebow did he would have probably been literally murdered by the fan base?

If you go back and look at KO's last two games in 2010, they are almost exactly the kind of crappy games Teebs ended 2011 with. KO was 9 for 28 and put up 6 points against the Chiefs the last time he played them. His Arizona game, stats-wise looks a lot like the Buffalo game.

I don't think you're an Ortonite or anything, but you just said Orton would get killed if he ever played like that without even recalling that he DID play like that. It's just another indication of a double-standard when it comes to Tebow. He's not even fairly compared to veteran QB's let alone other rookies around the league.

Kaylore
01-11-2012, 03:02 PM
But this is what you said:



If you go back and look at KO's last two games in 2010, they are almost exactly the kind of crappy games Teebs ended 2011 with. KO was 9 for 28 and put up 6 points against the Chiefs the last time he played them. His Arizona game, stats-wise looks a lot like the Buffalo game.

I don't think you're an Ortonite or anything, but you just said Orton would get killed if he ever played like that without even recalling that he DID play like that. It's just another indication of a double-standard when it comes to Tebow. He's not even fairly compared to veteran QB's let alone other rookies around the league.

I think it would have been worse if the division and playoffs were at stake and he had that kind of game.

BroncoBeavis
01-11-2012, 03:06 PM
I think it would have been worse if the division and playoffs were at stake and he had that kind of game.


You mean like the two pick-6's in the second half vs the Chiefs at the end of 2009 when the playoffs WERE on the line?

Besides, even if that weren't the case "struggled in a big game" isn't necessarily a damning indictment of a kid playing in his first big games. That's also a widely understood rookie habit.

MplsBronco
01-11-2012, 03:10 PM
I like you, Butterscotch!

Jekyll15Hyde
01-11-2012, 03:12 PM
Also, if you aren't a Teboner, you aren't a Bronco fan.




Hilarious!

Mile High Mojoe
01-11-2012, 03:18 PM
There's a considerable difference between criticizing a kid's performance over a couple of rough games and saying "time to send in the ol' Cleveland Browns castoff"

Rookies struggle. Often for stretches longer than 2 games. It's nothing short of a MIRACLE that we put in the rookie, handed him a 1-4 record and even had an OPPORTUNITY to sniff at the playoffs. Had he lost a couple of the earlier games that he SHOULD have lost, NONE of it would've mattered. Instead we hold Timmy to a higher standard than guys like Gabbert or Bradford because he was inconsistent, whereas those other guys just sucked all the way through.

And none of that even touches the fact that we give the kid next to zero attempts in non-clutch settings (ie first half) and then expect him to win every game with a gun to his head every week. I've never seen a rookie put through this kind of meat grinder.

This sums it up perfectly. I just donít understand how smart Broncos fans could have assumed that Tebow was going to be an All Pro QB in week 6 when the team was 1-4 or even now that heís led them to a 9-8 record and a divisional playoff game.

Sunday will be his 16 NFL start. Heís had his ups and downs but heís had a great ďRookieĒ season. No other NFL Owner, Front Office, Coaching Staff or group of teammates or fan base could have asked for or been given a better performance by a Rookie QB than what Tebow has given this year.

Maybe some of you forgot just how horrible a team the Broncos were last year. The Panthers were the worst team in the league but the Broncos didnít have much of a better team. So this idea that Tebow could walk into his first season as a starter on the 2nd worse team in the NFL and expect immediate results was unreasonable insanity.

I just find it interesting now that heís played very well in his first playoff game and on the brink of his second that the doubters and haters could go back to the Chiefs and Bills games and say on that basis alone Tebow was finished and that he should have been replaced. The Chiefs game in my opinion was the worst game of his career and the only one he can clearly shoulder most of the blame for the loss but it wasnít enough to dump him and start Quinn. Nor did it mean he shouldnít get an opportunity to come back as next yearís starter.

I just think that Tebow has been held to a different standard than any recent Rookie because of who he is personally and what college program he came from. The doubters and haters can claim this isnít so but I donít buy it. Had Tebow been an agnostic or a pagan most of the fans that didnít like him for being a Christian would have been a lot less forgiving about him as a person and his game. But since heís so unapologetic about it, so sincere and so genuine some just canít except that maybe heís the real deal. That he really is a humble, nice guy who happens to be as tough as nails and doesnít play his game in the conventional way but gets results and wins on the field. Thatís hard for some to believe.

Without naming names many OM fans spent the entire season criticizing his game and much worse. Iím happy to see that maybe some of you can just be fans now or at least until the season ends. Tebow deserves some respect and appreciation heís earned it.

Tebow will be back next year and the expectations and the criticism will go to whole new level and should. If he craps out by mid-season and the Broncos are a sub .500 team or worse then Iíll be the first to bang the drum for change.

For now though Iíll continue to be a Fan and hope that the Broncos can pull off another miracle this week. I believe.

OrangeSe7en
01-11-2012, 03:27 PM
Hilarious!

You're a joke. Go cheer for the Steelers, jackass.

Mile High Mojoe
01-11-2012, 03:46 PM
You're a joke. Go cheer for the Steelers, jackass.

Put this guy on ignore as I did, he's just not worthy of the time or effort to even rerspond too.

TonyR
01-11-2012, 04:05 PM
The only thing I don't have any patience for is people goalpost shifting or continuing to cling to arguments they made in the past in spite of all evidence to the contrary. They'll keep defending their old takes 'till the day they die simply because they're incapable of ever thinking of themselves as being wrong.

I hate getting into this too much because now is not the time for it. Tebow just had a great performance in a huge game. So I hesitate because I don't want things to get too negative during a positive time for Broncos fans. So I'll try to tread lightly...

I agree with your post. The thing I'll point out though is that there is a lot of evidence that Tebow has had major issues throwing the football. Allow me to enumerate:

1) The team has designed an extremely conservative offense around him which focuses on running the football and utilizes the pass infrequently.
2) He had the worst completion percentage in the league.
3) In the games where the Broncos fell behind multiple scores and he was forced to pass he struggled.
4) Arguably the best defensive coordinator in the league, Dick LeBeau, used a game plan against Tebow which basically assumed Tebow wouldn't be able to beat them with the pass.

So the truth is that Tebow has struggled with passing for much of most of his starts. He had two terrible performances in the last two games of the season. Now I'm a Broncos fan but I'm able to set aside bias and see reality. The reality was that from a passing standpoint Tebow barely looked like an NFL QB for large parts of several starts and most of some others. And ending the season the way he did gave anyone who isn't completely delusional and/or in denial ample reason for concern. Thankfully for all of us, at least in part because of Pittsburgh's defensive game plan, he had probably his best passing performance of the season. Let's hope he does it again this week and gives you guys more ammunition to call me stupid and a hater!

BroncoBeavis
01-11-2012, 04:35 PM
The thing I'll point out though is that there is a lot of evidence that Tebow has had major issues throwing the football. Allow me to enumerate:

1) The team has designed an extremely conservative offense around him which focuses on running the football and utilizes the pass infrequently.
2) He had the worst completion percentage in the league.
3) In the games where the Broncos fell behind multiple scores and he was forced to pass he struggled.
4) Arguably the best defensive coordinator in the league, Dick LeBeau, used a game plan against Tebow which basically assumed Tebow wouldn't be able to beat them with the pass.

See, to me, points 1 and 2 go hand in hand. I believe conservative offense, infrequent throwing, and low completion percentage go hand in hand.

I'd bet $10 bucks that if you cut Aaron Rodgers' attempts in half, his completion percentage would go down. I also believe it's been demonstrated that we tend to run first until it's no longer a real option and then we force Tebow to fling it disproportionately in bad situations and improbable 3rd and longs. It's been completely proven that we virtually never throw on 1st down. That by itself would hurt any QB's completion percentage. To sum up, what you view as 'helping' Tebow, I view as hurting him. Maybe there's no reconciling that.

On point 3), I don't see that being a rational read at all. Look at the end of most of Tebow's games. The point at which he excels the MOST is when he's allowed to open the offense up when down multiple scores. Until his last two games, his performance when behind and under pressure was earth-shattering. It had the whole NFL talking. Tebow was Mr Impossible Comeback. Then the inevitable happens and the rookie fails to pull off miracles for two games and suddenly you're talking like he's never made plays under pressure.

Not really sure what to say about 4) other than to say many people believe Tebow wasn't given proper opportunity to do what he did to the Steelers. So the Steelers never saw it on film and were deceived. Even Dick was willing to give Tebow a lot of credit, so I don't think it really says anything other than Tebow made the plays he needed to make.

Jay3
01-11-2012, 05:49 PM
People will hang onto that KC game for years. It will be legendary.

Why? It will be the contorted justification they use to explain why they missed the boat on Tebow. What was in reality constantly busting the guy's balls will become "Oh, I just critiqued his performance in that KC game, which was horrible, and I will continue to be objective in critiquing player's performances.'

The problem with that self-delusional theory is . . . . everybody thought that was a bad game. But a lot of people wanted to throw him overboard after that game. To give up on him. But they'll try to convince themselves all they did was criticize his performance. But that wasn't it.

And we remember. We see you. We peer in your curtains and see you. Not wearing Jockeys.

MplsBronco
01-11-2012, 08:59 PM
This sums it up perfectly. I just donít understand how smart Broncos fans could have assumed that Tebow was going to be an All Pro QB in week 6 when the team was 1-4 or even now that heís led them to a 9-8 record and a divisional playoff game.

Sunday will be his 16 NFL start. Heís had his ups and downs but heís had a great ďRookieĒ season. No other NFL Owner, Front Office, Coaching Staff or group of teammates or fan base could have asked for or been given a better performance by a Rookie QB than what Tebow has given this year.

Maybe some of you forgot just how horrible a team the Broncos were last year. The Panthers were the worst team in the league but the Broncos didnít have much of a better team. So this idea that Tebow could walk into his first season as a starter on the 2nd worse team in the NFL and expect immediate results was unreasonable insanity.

I just find it interesting now that heís played very well in his first playoff game and on the brink of his second that the doubters and haters could go back to the Chiefs and Bills games and say on that basis alone Tebow was finished and that he should have been replaced. The Chiefs game in my opinion was the worst game of his career and the only one he can clearly shoulder most of the blame for the loss but it wasnít enough to dump him and start Quinn. Nor did it mean he shouldnít get an opportunity to come back as next yearís starter.

I just think that Tebow has been held to a different standard than any recent Rookie because of who he is personally and what college program he came from. The doubters and haters can claim this isnít so but I donít buy it. Had Tebow been an agnostic or a pagan most of the fans that didnít like him for being a Christian would have been a lot less forgiving about him as a person and his game. But since heís so unapologetic about it, so sincere and so genuine some just canít except that maybe heís the real deal. That he really is a humble, nice guy who happens to be as tough as nails and doesnít play his game in the conventional way but gets results and wins on the field. Thatís hard for some to believe.

Without naming names many OM fans spent the entire season criticizing his game and much worse. Iím happy to see that maybe some of you can just be fans now or at least until the season ends. Tebow deserves some respect and appreciation heís earned it.

Tebow will be back next year and the expectations and the criticism will go to whole new level and should. If he craps out by mid-season and the Broncos are a sub .500 team or worse then Iíll be the first to bang the drum for change.For now though Iíll continue to be a Fan and hope that the Broncos can pull off another miracle this week. I believe.

Great post until your absolute contradiction in bold. So, he doesn't even get a full second year with you? That's just stupid.

Mile High Mojoe
01-11-2012, 09:56 PM
Great post until your absolute contradiction in bold. So, he doesn't even get a full second year with you? That's just stupid.

To clarify, I'm not some guy who gets caught in what ifs. If you've read any of mine they deal in the now. But if the Broncos lose 8 in a row and Tebow throws 16 INT's and 3 TD's then yes it's probably time for a change. Tebow has earned the starting job next season but if he lays an egg at mid season he's no different than any other QB in NFL since there are no guarantees. It's a results driven game no starter not even Rodgers could go on an 8 game losing streak and not worry about losing his job.

I don't know what happens next season but I believe Tebow gets better and we don't even have to worry about his progress because it'll all be good.

TonyR
01-12-2012, 12:34 PM
...there is a lot of evidence that Tebow has had major issues throwing the football...

More of that evidence discussed in this post:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3461281&postcount=43

jhns
01-12-2012, 12:39 PM
Keep trying to spin the hate tony. You have already been proven wrong. From 1-4 to a playoff win. There is potential for more. I'm sure glad I, along with the team, wasn't so quick to bail on him every time he had any struggles.

A first year starter isn't a polished vet? No way!

Jekyll15Hyde
01-12-2012, 01:12 PM
You're a joke. Go cheer for the Steelers, jackass.

Why? Because my Bronco world doesn't revolve around Teebs? I've been a fan long before he was here and will be long afterwards as well. You on the other hand...

jhns
01-12-2012, 01:20 PM
I've been a fan long before he was here and will be long afterwards as well.

Yeah right...

I'm Bill Gates. Nice to meet you.

TonyR
01-12-2012, 01:38 PM
Keep trying to spin the hate tony.

Interesting way to put it since there isn't any "spin" (nothing but facts stated in what I just linked which directly supports my argument) and there isn't any "hate".

jhns
01-12-2012, 01:49 PM
Interesting way to put it since there isn't any "spin" (nothing but facts stated in what I just linked which directly supports my argument) and there isn't any "hate".

And I'm Bill Gates. We already covered this.

Jekyll15Hyde
01-12-2012, 02:02 PM
Yeah right...

I'm Bill Gates. Nice to meet you.

What,... you think I wont be a fan after Teebs is gone? I think you have me confused with orangeseven.

Seriously (if you are even capable), why is step 1 when you disagree with someone to always question their fan credentials?

jhns
01-12-2012, 02:05 PM
What,... you think I wont be a fan after Teebs is gone? I think you have me confused with orangeseven.

Seriously (if you are even capable), why is step 1 when you disagree with someone to always question their fan credentials?

You are right. I didn't read well enough. You clearly left out the part of what you are while Tebow is here. I guess bandwagon fan is still a "fan".

I don't. You hate what is good, you aren't a fan. You like what is bad for this team, you aren't a fan. There is no questioning going on. I just state facts.

Jekyll15Hyde
01-12-2012, 02:28 PM
You are right. I didn't read well enough. You clearly left out the part of what you are while Tebow is here. I guess bandwagon fan is still a "fan".

I don't. You hate what is good, you aren't a fan. You like what is bad for this team, you aren't a fan. There is no questioning going on. I just state facts.

I am a fan long before he was here, while he is here and whenever he leaves. I haven't been on his personal bandwagon, but of course you have to if you want to be a real fan. But I am on board with him getting at least 1 more year as the #1 QB next year, no questions asked.

He has more upside than I envisioned. So for now I was wrong though I still doubt his long term viability though that is waning. But I'll take my deserved serving of crow. If he continues to improve, that's great. I don't mind becoming progressively "wronger" about him because that means the team will be doing better. Crow doesn't taste so bad because they are winning.

Give it a rest,... your schtick is very old and about as sophomoric as it gets. Once upon a time it was entertaining but not anymore.

2KBack
01-12-2012, 02:31 PM
it was never entertaining

jhns
01-12-2012, 02:38 PM
it was never entertaining

Even I was going to question that.

Anyways, good post hd. Hopefully most of you are learning to stop acting like you are Mrs Cleo and can predict how much a young player can improve or what they can accomplish. Young players deserve a chance. Many don't want to give Tebow that chance. If you doubt a young player, keep your mouth shut or there is a high probability of you looking like an idiot. Tebow was brought into the NFL as a QB for a reason...

BroncoBeavis
01-12-2012, 02:42 PM
Even I was going to question that.

Anyways, good post hd. Hopefully most of you are learning to stop acting like you are Mrs Cleo and can predict how much a young player can improve or what they can accomplish. Young players deserve a chance. Many don't want to give Tebow that chance. If you doubt a young player, keep your mouth shut or there is a high probability of you looking like an idiot. Tebow was brought into the NFL as a QB for a reason...

Huh. Miss Cleo, NFL Talent Scout.

Has anyone pitched this show idea to the NFL Network? Offseason ratings gold if you ask me.

Circle Orange
01-12-2012, 08:05 PM
So Philadelphia sports radio's leading afternoon drive show does this segment called "Sound Off" every day where listeners leave messages and they pick a few and air them and then the host reacts. The host, Mike Missanelli, is a Tebow hater and he got blasted both on the show and on Sound Off yesterday since Tebow played well and the Broncos won. So I called in this morning and gave him some more hell. They edited out about 1/3 of what I said (in particular I commented about how Vick looks prettier playing QB and has prettier stats but Tebow's the one who gets it done more often). If you want to hear it I linked it below. I'm the first caller.

http://www.975thefanatic.com/features/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10333960

When Philly folks are arguing about Denver qbs, you know the obsession is complete. http://scosoft.com/s/l/287efbdc.gif

Agamemnon
01-12-2012, 09:28 PM
See, to me, points 1 and 2 go hand in hand. I believe conservative offense, infrequent throwing, and low completion percentage go hand in hand.

I'd bet $10 bucks that if you cut Aaron Rodgers' attempts in half, his completion percentage would go down. I also believe it's been demonstrated that we tend to run first until it's no longer a real option and then we force Tebow to fling it disproportionately in bad situations and improbable 3rd and longs. It's been completely proven that we virtually never throw on 1st down. That by itself would hurt any QB's completion percentage. To sum up, what you view as 'helping' Tebow, I view as hurting him. Maybe there's no reconciling that.

On point 3), I don't see that being a rational read at all. Look at the end of most of Tebow's games. The point at which he excels the MOST is when he's allowed to open the offense up when down multiple scores. Until his last two games, his performance when behind and under pressure was earth-shattering. It had the whole NFL talking. Tebow was Mr Impossible Comeback. Then the inevitable happens and the rookie fails to pull off miracles for two games and suddenly you're talking like he's never made plays under pressure.

Not really sure what to say about 4) other than to say many people believe Tebow wasn't given proper opportunity to do what he did to the Steelers. So the Steelers never saw it on film and were deceived. Even Dick was willing to give Tebow a lot of credit, so I don't think it really says anything other than Tebow made the plays he needed to make.

Excellent post. Especially the first part. Our idiotic passing system, refusal to throw on 1st down, refusal to implement easy passes as a staple, and insistence that Tebow throw almost exclusively in obvious passing situations are far more of a problem than his ability to pass.

ScottXray
01-12-2012, 10:03 PM
I hate getting into this too much because now is not the time for it. Tebow just had a great performance in a huge game. So I hesitate because I don't want things to get too negative during a positive time for Broncos fans. So I'll try to tread lightly...

I agree with your post. The thing I'll point out though is that there is a lot of evidence that Tebow has had major issues throwing the football. Allow me to enumerate:

1) The team has designed an extremely conservative offense around him which focuses on running the football and utilizes the pass infrequently.
2) He had the worst completion percentage in the league.
3) In the games where the Broncos fell behind multiple scores and he was forced to pass he struggled.
4) Arguably the best defensive coordinator in the league, Dick LeBeau, used a game plan against Tebow which basically assumed Tebow wouldn't be able to beat them with the pass.

So the truth is that Tebow has struggled with passing for much of most of his starts. He had two terrible performances in the last two games of the season. Now I'm a Broncos fan but I'm able to set aside bias and see reality. The reality was that from a passing standpoint Tebow barely looked like an NFL QB for large parts of several starts and most of some others. And ending the season the way he did gave anyone who isn't completely delusional and/or in denial ample reason for concern. Thankfully for all of us, at least in part because of Pittsburgh's defensive game plan, he had probably his best passing performance of the season. Let's hope he does it again this week and gives you guys more ammunition to call me stupid and a hater!

THAT"S the spirit. Good take.