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Rohirrim
01-10-2012, 02:35 PM
Let the Luck vs Griffin debate begin. Griffin should give Tebow a percentage of his bonus. Tebow's play for Denver has made Griffin's possibilities in the NFL much more attractive.

TheReverend
01-10-2012, 02:37 PM
Griffin should give Tebow a percentage of his bonus

Little known Tebow effect?

Garcia Bronco
01-10-2012, 02:37 PM
LOL...not even close.

bendog
01-10-2012, 02:39 PM
And KC won't pick high enough to sniff either, unless they give up an entire draft.

The Lord looked down upon Kansas City, saw it was filled with stupid fat people, and turned his face away.

Pony Boy
01-10-2012, 03:19 PM
The Rams are sitting pretty, let the bidding begin. What's the pick worth and do they drop far enough to not get Blackmon?

SJ Bronco
01-10-2012, 03:27 PM
Luck vs RGIII isn't a debate. Different style qb's completely. It will depend on the system they are in. Luck will be fine in Indy, RGIII is better for a team like Miami.

Ziggy
01-10-2012, 03:29 PM
Let the Luck vs Griffin debate begin. Griffin should give Tebow a percentage of his bonus. Tebow's play for Denver has made Griffin's possibilities in the NFL much more attractive.

They're similar in athletic ability only. Griffin is a far more accurate QB. His 72% accuracy wasn't smoke and mirrors. He threw a ton of long and mid-range passes this season.

elsid13
01-10-2012, 03:32 PM
They're similar in athletic ability only. Griffin is a far more accurate QB. His 72% accuracy wasn't smoke and mirrors. He threw a ton of long and mid-range passes this season.

He also played in AIR RAID system, which helps the completion percentage and has WR that is late first round pick/early second pick . He very good QB, but Luck is a level above him big time.

chickennob2
01-10-2012, 03:43 PM
Let the Luck vs Griffin debate begin. Griffin should give Cam Newton a percentage of his bonus. Newton's play for Denver has made Griffin's possibilities in the NFL much more attractive.

FTFY

Rohirrim
01-10-2012, 03:44 PM
FTFY

Good point. But Cam is at home this weekend. ;D

Requiem
01-10-2012, 03:51 PM
Not a whole lot of striking similarities between the two at all. RGIII should thank himself! He balled out all year.

Agamemnon
01-10-2012, 04:04 PM
They're similar in athletic ability only. Griffin is a far more accurate QB. His 72% accuracy wasn't smoke and mirrors. He threw a ton of long and mid-range passes this season.

His 72% completion percentage came out of a very similar scheme with very similar plays as Tebow's 70% completion rate as a senior, and if he was stuck in the Broncos offense he'd probably have a comparably crappy completion percentage. I love how RGIII's college completion percentage means he's an accurate passer, but Tebow's college completion percentage against far superior SEC defenses means nothing. Some interesting "logic" being used there. ::)

Agamemnon
01-10-2012, 04:05 PM
FTFY

Err, Newton played for Denver? I missed that.

ScottXray
01-10-2012, 04:12 PM
Bradford is untradeable but I really wonder if StL is happy with what they got , and how much of a hit they would have to take to dump him? Frankly Minnesota probably has a better QB in Ponder, and St L really hasn't got anything much for the investment they made in Bradford.

I kind of wonder if they'll take RGIII anyway, since their line can't seem to keep Bradford in one piece and they aren't going to do much with him back there. I think they might just take RG3 and see which one does better, then trade the other later on. They aren't going to Keep getting high picks forever and the costs under the new CBA are much less to draft high.

Since they will be bringing in a new coach and staff I wonder if the new regime might just give Bradford an honest evaluation and figure he is not what they thought and cut their losses, while they have a chance to start over and get a possibly better QB.

elsid13
01-10-2012, 04:17 PM
His 72% completion percentage came out of a very similar schemes with very similar plays as Tebow's 70% completion rate as a senior, and if he was stuck in the Broncos offense he'd probably have a comparably crappy completion percentage. I love how RGIII's college completion percentage means he's an accurate passer, but Tebow's college completion percentage against far superior SEC defenses means nothing. Some interesting "logic" being used there. ::)

There not similar systems. Tebow played in option read spread, and RGIII played in Air Raid. Yes they are both spread but they have different philosophies

This what Tebow ran:

http://www.footballtimes.org/Article.asp?ID=217

http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2008/12/florida-gatorurban-meyer-offense.html

This what RGIII ran:

http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2009/01/airraid-info-and-passing-concepts.html

Agamemnon
01-10-2012, 04:25 PM
There not similar systems. Tebow played in option read spread, and RGIII played in Air Raid. Yes they are both spread but they have different philosophies

This what Tebow ran:

http://www.footballtimes.org/Article.asp?ID=217

http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2008/12/florida-gatorurban-meyer-offense.html

This what RGIII ran:

http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2009/01/airraid-info-and-passing-concepts.html

You do realize that they are both spread passing games predicated on pre-snap reads, and they both make extensive use of option plays right?

And LOL at the notion that the Air Raid offense translates any better to a pro style offense, or is any less QB friendly versus Urban Meyers' passing game. You're killing me...

Seriously, "they're not similar systems"? Hilarious!

BroncoMan4ever
01-10-2012, 04:37 PM
They're similar in athletic ability only. Griffin is a far more accurate QB. His 72% accuracy wasn't smoke and mirrors. He threw a ton of long and mid-range passes this season.

dude, the same could have been said about Tebow and his 66% accuracy in college playing in a simple offense with NFL talent at WR.

until you get to the NFL, nothing about your college game is a guaranteed smooth transition.

Rohirrim
01-10-2012, 04:37 PM
Bradford is untradeable but I really wonder if StL is happy with what they got , and how much of a hit they would have to take to dump him? Frankly Minnesota probably has a better QB in Ponder, and St L really hasn't got anything much for the investment they made in Bradford.

I kind of wonder if they'll take RGIII anyway, since their line can't seem to keep Bradford in one piece and they aren't going to do much with him back there. I think they might just take RG3 and see which one does better, then trade the other later on. They aren't going to Keep getting high picks forever and the costs under the new CBA are much less to draft high.

Since they will be bringing in a new coach and staff I wonder if the new regime might just give Bradford an honest evaluation and figure he is not what they thought and cut their losses, while they have a chance to start over and get a possibly better QB.

I watched a Rams game this season and my first thought was that Tebow has ten times the pocket "sense" that Bradford has. It's not just that Oline.

BroncoMan4ever
01-10-2012, 04:43 PM
Bradford is untradeable but I really wonder if StL is happy with what they got , and how much of a hit they would have to take to dump him? Frankly Minnesota probably has a better QB in Ponder, and St L really hasn't got anything much for the investment they made in Bradford.

I kind of wonder if they'll take RGIII anyway, since their line can't seem to keep Bradford in one piece and they aren't going to do much with him back there. I think they might just take RG3 and see which one does better, then trade the other later on. They aren't going to Keep getting high picks forever and the costs under the new CBA are much less to draft high.

Since they will be bringing in a new coach and staff I wonder if the new regime might just give Bradford an honest evaluation and figure he is not what they thought and cut their losses, while they have a chance to start over and get a possibly better QB.

Bradford has been in the league 2 years. he plays for one of the worst teams in the league. a team that outside of RB(who had injury problems this year) is talent deficient across the board.

how is he suddenly such a bad QB when for 2 seasons he was the best QB prospect the NCAA had to offer to the NFL.

by the logic of Bradford looked bad this year, SHould the Jets, and Bucs be looking for new QBs also?

ScottXray
01-10-2012, 04:50 PM
Bradford has been in the league 2 years. he plays for one of the worst teams in the league. a team that outside of RB(who had injury problems this year) is talent deficient across the board.

how is he suddenly such a bad QB when for 2 seasons he was the best QB prospect the NCAA had to offer to the NFL.

by the logic of Bradford looked bad this year, SHould the Jets, and Bucs be looking for new QBs also?

Just pointing out that he hasn't made the transition to NFL game yet and they might want to invest in a backup plan at QB while they have the high pick. I know they have crappy talent at multiple positions, and they also had the McD handicap on offense this year. But Bradford has not impressed and his stats don't seem to indicate that he is worth what they paid him, invested in him. He won a few games last year and got hurt this , as well as the other injuries. But a new regime is going to have to evaluate him and they may decide he is not franchise level talent.

BroncoMan4ever
01-10-2012, 04:55 PM
I watched a Rams game this season and my first thought was that Tebow has ten times the pocket "sense" that Bradford has. It's not just that Oline.

i truly think Bradford is going through a bit of the shell shocked nature of guys like David Carr and Joey Harrington. playing for bad teams that can't protect them, started giving them happy feet in the pocket and ended up wrecking their development. While Tim has been sacked a ****load of times this year, being hit is not as big of a to him as other QBs because he is a guy who tends to seek out contact. his game is predicated on hitting and being hit and he is built to absorb that. Bradford is a pocket passer who had great protection in college and now that he has none in the pros and is getting hit regularly for the first time in his football life, he doesn't know how to react to that.

i know a lot of people think Bradford needs weapons and should target Blackmon in the draft, and while it is true he needs more weapons, he needs protection more. that organization has 78million little reasons why they need to bring in Kalil to keep Bradford on his feet.

OBF1
01-10-2012, 04:58 PM
Luck hands down.

BroncoMan4ever
01-10-2012, 05:08 PM
Just pointing out that he hasn't made the transition to NFL game yet and they might want to invest in a backup plan at QB while they have the high pick. I know they have crappy talent at multiple positions, and they also had the McD handicap on offense this year. But Bradford has not impressed and his stats don't seem to indicate that he is worth what they paid him, invested in him. He won a few games last year and got hurt this , as well as the other injuries. But a new regime is going to have to evaluate him and they may decide he is not franchise level talent.

most QBs coming out of college regardless of instant success stories of recent years like Ryan, Rothlesberger and a few others still are believed to take at least 3 years to become truly NFL ready.

it makes no sense to bring in another top 5 QB after only 2 seasons with a number 1 overall pick who you are paying 50 million guaranteed, when it is obvious that that number 1 picks biggest need is some protection. the burden of selecting a QB number 1 overall under the old salary cap structure, is that unless that QB is a giant waste of space you have to ride out that contract. you paid way too much to give up on a guy after 2 seasons to just toss him aside simply because you have a high pick again. you can't just release him because you still have to pay him, you can't trade him because like a new car purchase the moment you drive it off the lot the value decreases a lot and you don't get back what you paid for and run the risk of seeing another owner take that commodity and turn it into something great.

also, why the **** is Griffin suddenly this can't miss prospect? prior to this season i had barely even heard of the guy. the guy is like Tebow. i have never understood why one guy who plays in the Spread Option style offense(Tebow) is viewed as a bad investment in the first round while 2 other guys who played in a similar offense & have the similar skill set(Newton RGIII) are unanimous top 5 picks

Hamrob
01-10-2012, 05:10 PM
It all depends on the team they go to and the talent that will be surrounding them.

RGIII in Miami with Daniel Thomas, Marshall, Bess and, Fassano...that's a pretty nice base to go to work with.

Luck in Indy is also a good fit.

NUB
01-10-2012, 05:11 PM
I think RGIII is the best player in the draft, but if you want the safe option you go for Luck.

cutthemdown
01-10-2012, 05:15 PM
Does Griffin run the read option like Tebow?

cutthemdown
01-10-2012, 05:17 PM
Still Gms say that Tebow even now would not be a first round pick on their draft boards. We have a QB no one else wants, but we are in the playoffs, so **** em. At least we don't have to worry about Tebow leaving as a FA. :)

barryr
01-10-2012, 05:31 PM
Talent around Griffin is obviously a factor but so is the system. If he is put in a conservative offense, I think Griffin will have many problems.

ScottXray
01-10-2012, 06:01 PM
i truly think Bradford is going through a bit of the shell shocked nature of guys like David Carr and Joey Harrington. playing for bad teams that can't protect them, started giving them happy feet in the pocket and ended up wrecking their development. While Tim has been sacked a ****load of times this year, being hit is not as big of a to him as other QBs because he is a guy who tends to seek out contact. his game is predicated on hitting and being hit and he is built to absorb that. Bradford is a pocket passer who had great protection in college and now that he has none in the pros and is getting hit regularly for the first time in his football life, he doesn't know how to react to that.

i know a lot of people think Bradford needs weapons and should target Blackmon in the draft, and while it is true he needs more weapons, he needs protection more. that organization has 78million little reasons why they need to bring in Kalil to keep Bradford on his feet.

good points. So will they trade down a bit and still try to get him the protection he needs? Thats a good bet...but not too many teams are going to give up the farm for Griffin. They might get 2 #1s for the 2nd pick, maybe throw in a third. AFter Luck is gone the price goes way down.
And like others I don't think RG3 is as sure a bet as Luck, to run a standard NFL offense.

MajorGCG
01-10-2012, 06:34 PM
If Denver is serious about sticking with Tebow they should take Russell Wilson if he's available. But the top priority IMO is better skill talent on O - WRs, TEs, RBs, and more OL that fit a spread style O.

Deuce
01-10-2012, 08:23 PM
Let's draft Griffin and put him and tebow in the shotgun right next to eachother. They could hand it off or keep it. If they kept it they could run it or pass it. If they hand it off, the runner could run it or step back and pass it....

Not sure if serious...?

epicSocialism4tw
01-10-2012, 08:27 PM
Griffin will be the second player taken.

Cleveland and Washington are both within striking distance of the second pick and they'll have a bidding war.

St. Louis is about to make out like a bandit.

canadianbroncosfan
01-10-2012, 08:29 PM
Oakland should be able to draft early enough to.........................oh right

epicSocialism4tw
01-10-2012, 08:33 PM
i truly think Bradford is going through a bit of the shell shocked nature of guys like David Carr and Joey Harrington. playing for bad teams that can't protect them, started giving them happy feet in the pocket and ended up wrecking their development. While Tim has been sacked a ****load of times this year, being hit is not as big of a to him as other QBs because he is a guy who tends to seek out contact. his game is predicated on hitting and being hit and he is built to absorb that. Bradford is a pocket passer who had great protection in college and now that he has none in the pros and is getting hit regularly for the first time in his football life, he doesn't know how to react to that.

i know a lot of people think Bradford needs weapons and should target Blackmon in the draft, and while it is true he needs more weapons, he needs protection more. that organization has 78million little reasons why they need to bring in Kalil to keep Bradford on his feet.

They're sticking with Bradford.

Jeff Fisher interviewed with Bradford when he was in St Louis.

Sounds like Bradford is entrenched.

If they get a good coach like Fisher in over there, they'll be a revived team next season.

Theyre about to get a bunch of picks for the second pick in the draft, and they'll still probably get one of the top OL in the draft or Justin Blackmon.

Agamemnon
01-11-2012, 01:47 AM
Still Gms say that Tebow even now would not be a first round pick on their draft boards. We have a QB no one else wants, but we are in the playoffs, so **** em. At least we don't have to worry about Tebow leaving as a FA. :)

Trust me. That's completely untrue.